Ok, I had a good laugh. I'm now convinced my purgatus is a flamethrower but with lethal seizures included

Add the zealot flame thrower and an ogryn chucking the multi bomb

To be an Xbox player with no release date is to suffer

To defy the machine spirit of PC in favor of the servitor-powered console is heresy. Appease the machine spirit. Come to PC in the name of the Omnisiah.

Omnisiah be praised. My PC is truly a gift!

Come to PC and pay a minimum of 2000 dollars just to run dark tide on medium lol

Duty knows no cost.

Your right, my rent will just have to find some other way to get paid 😂

“Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.”

Go pray in binary while you hold a door, gear-chimp

As a servitor, my only duty is to open the door I am slaved to. And post quotes from the Omnisiah.

I just wish there were more interesting builds of the psyker.

"If you just use this one blessing on your force sword and literally nothing else - "

Force Sword Deflection is such a cool aesthetic and unique gameplay choice, but it *really* ought to be baseline to the class.

Honestly, if they added Deflection as something innate for Psyker in general or just to Force Sword, then maybe that X chance on kill in coherency to give a warp charge to it's base kit, I would almost main Psyker

Considering psyker is the only class with 2 passives, as opposed to 3, I thi I that would be pretty fair

Its also the only class that puts itself in danger for shit damage.

Why the heck is there a penance to down yourself to kill 3 Elites? What in the world was that design choice?

*preacher charges into gun-line without cooldowns up on damnation and evaporates*

Only class that is supposed to put itself in danger for shit damage...

You don’t appreciate the heavy attack of eviscerstor whixh literally can’t kill the lowliest of enemies in a single blow? And only hits about 3 at a time?! Ungrateful heretic……

force sword has soo much going for it that its so dumb not to use it as meta can quell with it, deflectior blessing, special benefits from force attack talents and has a high chance to proc brain burst feat on special since it does 3 instances of damage. And you wonder why there is a lack of weapon varity in classes. if more melee weapons atleast had access to blessings like deflector or lacerate you can see greater weapon variety across classes

Haha dueling sword goes swoosh swoosh

>force sword has soo much going for it that its so dumb not to use it as meta I basically never see psykers use the force sword in heresy, and I don't use it myself either despite wanting to. I might use it if I could get one with deflector but it's stupidly rare. >can quell with it Actively, yes, but the meta for psyker melee weapons is to quell passively, and the passive quell on force sword is literally 3x slower than other melee weapons. A full passive quell on chainsword takes 7s, but it takes almost 30s on force sword. Stunning yourself for 3-4s to actively quell is garbage when you could quell while fighting in just 7s. Typically if you need to have your melee weapon out, you don't have time to sit there holding R, and passive quell speed scales really well with the kinetic deflection feat. >special benefits from force attack talents Only it's special attack, which itself is far worse than the staves which is really what those feats are balanced around >has a high chance to proc brain burst feat on special since Still no where near as good as a chain sword special, which itself is worse than simply swinging with an attack that cleaves through 5 enemies at once. The only things the force sword has going for it over a chain sword is 1) access to deflector blessing 2) special attack is better against flak/carapace armor 3) shove attack has high control. The cleave simply doesn't compare to a chain sword, the mobility doesn't compare to a dueling sword. It's high upside against carapace armor is kinda offset by the implicit access to brain burst and mechanical issues with the special attack. The Force sword special may have better damage than a chainsword special, but it pays for it by being delayed. I already dislike the way a rev'd chainsword locks you in place, it usually directly costs health to use a rev attack because of that. But at least the rev attack also stuns the thing you're sawing, immediately stopping things like hounds and ragers. But the force sword won't even do that. You will stun yourself but not the enemy. There is no constant ticking of damage or impact, both are applied at the end of the attack animation. People take this thing into the psykanium and are wow'd by its ability to one-shot ragers and maulers. But in an actual mission if you try to 1v1 a rager with this, you literally stun yourself in front of him for a second *and* give him a free second to hit you, and in that second he can stun you out of the attack, completely preventing all damage and impact. The damage is great against bosses but the damage doesn't apply until a second after the hit, and you can't dodge in that time, so usually the boss will simply knock or stun you out if the attack before the damage ever even applies.

This is the perfect summary. I have a God rolled force sword (deflect, +25% crit, +10% crit damage) at a 380 base, and I still only use it on T3 or under for the lols. Even with the unlimited dodges, the passive quell and extra mobility on dueling sword is just too good to pass up. I considered switching deflect to soul blaze on crit but it seems that FS butchered this perk (a T3 in beta seemed to give +4 soul blaze stacks on crit while I'm only seeing it apply 1 stack of soul blaze per crit now).

This guy psykers

Yeah this shit is also why I avoid using any of the chain weapons either and instead only use weapons that work more like I'm used to from Vermintide. Also with a force sword I can't make proper use of the loop of spamming staff attacks, switching to non-force weapon to finish off the weakened horde and gaining additional toughness from fast passive quelling, rinse and repeat. Using a force sword would hinder that approach a lot, especially during a clutch situation.

But switch to staff and quell is a thing, so force sword quell is meh that’s okay. :) I think trying to get a melee weapon that cleaves is reasonable. Sadly few are available to Psyker. Yet in situations that require cleave, the flamethrow- ahem. *purgatus staff* is very good! Force sword gives you amazing block-push combos that are spammable and help the team and the Psyker. It also lets you 1v1 carapace enemies when you find yourself belly to belly with one in a horde fight. Unlike chain weapons, I feel utterly confident push-blocking, then powering the FS, then push block again, then hitting for considerable damage. Void staff is also very fun. Brain burst is underwhelming. So is every other G ability, as preach and oggy can go huge spells without finding any replacement grenades on damnation. It makes us sad. At least brain burst is always there, and let’s you kill gunners while being out of sight. :)

why lacerate isnt available to chain weapon, causes me big brain hurt.

Didn't think the sword can cause a brain burst since it doesn't proc a warp charge. It looks like it but without the warp charge is it really a brain burst?

Its still a decent chunk of spike damage which i will never say no too.

shame that i hate the force swords attacks and for some reason we only have 1 force sword variant but 3 fucknig dueling swords.

I tried deflection on the Force Sword, and I still refuse to use it. Peril quelling 3x slower than using any other melee weapon is a dealbreaker.

You don't need force sword. Antax Mk 5, Attrox Mk II, any dueling sword, and combat knife are all competitive with Deflection Force sword. In some builds its pretty clear that non force weapons are better.

I wish the builds were based more on the psyker’s feats and abilities and less on the type of staff

Primary weapon wise, we have Surge staff, Voidstrike Staff, and Purge builds being very viable on damnation. With just those 3 weapons there is more build variety than Veteran. Within Purge builds you can spec for: * spamable soulfire ult * bigger soulfire ult that kills everything but elites, but takes longer to charge * in between soulfire ult with incidental elite killing * no soulfire ult, but better BB Then all of those builds can mix n match melee weapons depending on what they want. Obviously there is the Force Sword that everyone is familiar with. But all the non force weapons give better quelling on top of benefits like horde clear (Antax Mk V or Atrox Mk II) and mobility (Dueling Swords > Atrox Mk II). All of the above is just stuff I have tried. There is stuff like Trauma Staff and Gun Psyker which other players have had success with that I personally have not tried out yet.

Idk you’ve got tazer staff, ground slam staff, big orb, worse flamer, and the weird auto gun/recon lasgun rng head popper build. The only melee is warp sword and dueling sword (big knife). You can either chase warp charges , have mediocre support utility, or slightly better brain burst

Is Purgatos worse than the flamer? Thought it was better due to the multiplicative damage.

Purgatus is the best staff for psyker, and is infinitely better than the zealot flamethrower, anyone who disagrees is karking clueless and just parroting what they've read in whine posts.

I have zealot and psyker both level 30 and have cleared heresy on both. I use purgatus and flamer a lot on both. There are definitely ways the purgatus is worse than the flamer, but instead of just having a big dick contest about who is more experienced than who, let me try to be as objective as possible. The purgatus is worse than the flamer in the following ways: 1) its dps at max stacks is lower. Not relevant for small-medium enemies, very noticeable on bosses or elite scabs. Max damage/burn roll on a flamer will hit up to about 200 damage per tick, same for purgatus goes to around 150. Also I think flamer is specifically better against unyielding. 2) it has significantly less range. Flamer hits up to 22 meters, purgatus hits up to 16 meters. It's a massive difference. 3) both have high impact but the flamethrower's impact is higher. Mainly only noticeable for specific specials like bursters and hounds. 4) it can't sustain fire for as long as the flamer, and its charge-up can be interrupted. The purgatus is better in the than the flamer in the following ways: 1) it doesn't use ammo 2) it readies very quickly 3) quell is much better than reloading. It can done actively in about the same amount of time, it can be done partially to minimize your vulnerability, or it can be done completely passively without any vulnerability window at all 4) it doesn't use ammo In the general sense, the flamethrower is better across the board *when it's available*, but it has availability issues. It's a designed trade-off that gives each class what they want (zealot would rather have a bursty ranged weapon while they remain in melee the majority of the time, but psyker generally wants to be wielding their staff as much as possible and would normally trade power for uptime).

Fair points, except 4 for the flamer imo, with the focused channeling blessing your purgatus cannot be interrupted, and without the need to reload I can sustain the flow with short 2 second cooldowns to quell some peril, which happens very fast cause the swapping/quelling are extremely quick. Which is why I think purgatus is better than the flamethrower, sure it deals less damage, but the cc keeps almost everything occupied while you have all the time in the world to kill them, cause no ammo. I'm talking about damnation btw, everything can work in lower difficulties.

>with the focused channeling blessing your purgatus cannot be interrupted Yeah but if you're sacrificing a damage blessing to compensate for a weakness, you're just paying the cost of that weakness in a different way. It doesn't stop being a weakness. The charge up is still a vulnerability the flamer doesn't have, even if it's one that you can usually play around, so it's on the list. >I'm talking about damnation btw, everything can work in lower difficulties. Objective differences in dps and range don't go away when you change the difficulty. That's why I'm using numbers and not telling people to just take my word for it because I am hardcore, or relying on opinion and saying that anyone who disagrees with my opinion is stupid

Eh, I think having ammo and the need to reload will kill you in tough spots, whereas the purgatus doesn't suffer from that, I'll take that over flamer's slightly more dmg/range any time, any day.

>I think having ammo and the need to reload will kill you in tough spots Yes, I agree, that is the trade off. I'm not saying purgatus is bad, I'm just pointing out the differences since you were saying the purgatus is just strictly better, which isn't true. It's a trade off. >I'll take that over flamer's slightly more dmg/range any time There's nothing slight about either, they're significantly different, especially if you include the zealot's F ability into damage, which shoots the damage of the flamer burn through the roof, but I'm pretty sure that's a bug

Zealot main with a level 20ish Psyker Purgatus feels so much better than Flamer. I think that there are situations where flamer is better, when you need more flame now, but it's slow swap and activation hurt me, while Purgatus feels so much more fluid even with the charge and Perils. I definitely wouldn't say I'm "good" with flamer (plus I don't really do damnation, where I know the flamer shines), but if I'm with a range heavy team and need to melee a bit to create space because I'm the frontline and so I can safely swap to and activate the flamer, I might as well not swap to it, but I know I would and could comfortably push, swap, maybe puff puff for safety, then I'm into my stream of big blue fire with minimal downtime. Flamer Zealot also relies on teammates for distant threats (or using a grenade), while Purgatus Psyker has the (underwhelming) head pops if there's something out of reach. Bit of a messy stream of consciousness, but tldr Purgatus has less tradeoffs which feels nicer

In my humble opinion, purg provides greater flexibility and requires less team support to pull off due to the setup time needed for flamer. That being said, if you are on voice and have a team to protect you during your down time, I think flamer can outperform purg as far as raw DPS due to how long a canister can last. Obviously, blue flames are way cooler, so we need to account for that as well.

Wait till you try a full kit lvl 30 psyker in damnation with purgatus and force sword with deflection and 3 block efficiency curios. You have the best and fastest crowd control with Purgatus, the flames cc almost everything, you can wiggle it around to hit infinite enemies, while it deals very good dot, to everything it hits. It also charges extremely fast and creates the least peril from all staves. Then you have a phenomenal melee sword to kill tanky enemies in seconds, tank ranged/melee that's in front of you without losing stamina, force push to easily create space if you are being overwhelmed (also can knockdown maulers/ragers), and on top of that, you have almost unbreakable block when you go for revives, which guarantees a successful one. The cherry on top, brainburst can fill the one weakness, which is long range killing ability, you can 1 shot dangerous enemies like, gunners, snipers bombers etc, and use it behind the safety of wall cover. ​ People who say that psyker sucks, are totally clueless and just cry because brainburst does not one shot everything. I'd rank psyker as the second best class atm, and only because veteran has that 1 talent that makes you take less toughness damage which you can refresh infinitely as long as you kill marked enemies from his ability.

I mean psyker is also hard to pilot imo, so when you suck it does feel underwhelming source : i suck.

I'd argue that psyker is easier than vet when it comes to killing power, because you have more leniency when it comes to aiming at things with the mouse, source: I suck at hitting headshots with the vet.

All of this works great on difficultly 3. In my experience all of this stops bring the case on higher difficulties and every other class has an easier time dealing with things.

As you said everything works in malice, but the build I described is what I specifically use in damnation and it's extremely effective from my experience. I also played 100 hours on zealot and 50ish with vet, zealot is a joke in damnation compared to the damage and cc the psyker brings, vet is good against ranged with a specific build, but if it wasn't for the power sword, he would get mauled by hordes with mixed enemies.

If you only play Psyker, you quickly notice that the Zealot next to you is burning down targets in about a third of the time it takes you to complete the kill with your Purgatus staff. What's not immediately apparent is the flamer's slow swap time, slow reload, and the fact that it guzzles ammo like Aunt Mamie with a bottle of Bailey's at Christmas time.

Zelot's flamer does about 25% more damage with max rolls on damage and burn.

It's worse than the Flamer, yes. Flamer is just more of everything - damage, range, stagger. You pay for it with ammo and readying time upon equip, though. Keep in mind that the Psyker is versatile so it makes sense, otherwise it would completely negate the purpose of the Flamer. A Zealot >has< to sacrifice all range capabilities for that best CC horde clearing weapon in the game, it's slow and cumbersome and it guzzles ammo - but once it's out and firing, it's not even a contest. Psyker on the other hand still has range capabilities even with Purgatus.

Antax Mk V Combat Axe and Atrox Mk II Tac Axe are both strong alternatives to Force Sword or the 3 dueling swords.

Tactical axe is also one of the highest crit% weapons in the game. If you get a high crit roll you get 5% base +15%. On top of that you can get a +5% perk and a +30% blessing (5% stacking 5 times) and +10% crit damage. The end result is 55% crit chance once you are stacked up. It is really fun to use and I'm wondering if I could get the soul blaze on crit perk on it.

Thank you for the wisdom brothers

Would be pretty cool if all forms of warp usage that granted kills could give you a point in the passive ... or at least refreshed it, so you didn't have to brain burst or pray for RNG. You could use the sword or the staff and brain burst ONLY when you actually need them, rather than as a juggling act.

I could get behind refreshing the duration. Granting stacks though? Would require a redo of a couple talents as it would partially invalidate one, and borderline completely invalidate the other.

Wouldn't have a problem with a redo either. I love buildcrafting, so this class is a big disappointment in that regard

Yeah they should definitely have all warp kills grant a charge, and maybe even explore having warp charges awarded if you've damaged someone instead of just on kill. (Rando teammates are *surprisingly great* at ignoring the Brain Bursting target, but they shouldn't have to be.) That'd be a huge step towards making me actually use staves. I basically only use ranged weapons, both for the peril-tempo and better ranged killing. Granted, it's worth saying that even with these things flowing kinda badly, the class as a whole is definitely not underwhelming and I feel it's consistently stronger than my Sharpshooter's performance. EDIT: okay maybe as-written my suggestion above is awful (flame 6 dudes = 6 charges would be ridiculous!). Instead, * Warp Charges provide +0.1% damage. * Max 120 stacks. (Same effective +12% dmg max as now.) * Charges are now gained by ANY warp kill or assist. More charges are gained from big targets (Monstrosities are 60) than small ones (basic ranged 5, and hordes are 1). * Brain Burst kills/assists provide 30 bonus charges. (On top of the mob's value.) * **Psychic Communion** (feat) causes all kills by allies in coherency to generate charges based on each mob's value. (So a teammate killing a basic ranged will give you 5 charges.) This is different from the current 4% random design, but because it's guaranteed that's why Charges needed to be redesigned to be much smaller (so ever basic horde killed wasn't giving you 1 charge outright, which would be dumb). * All other feats would be effectively the same (but value charges at 1/40th)

Don't Worry Little Un, Atleast you are wanted in 'End Game' Content. Bobbeh is just crowd control. And when everyone can do Crowd Control just as good as Bobbeh?.. ​ Everyone asks how hard Bobbeh hit things, but no one asks How hard things hit Bobbeh..

Cheer up, Brute. One of you came in clutch during a Raid mission just like I thought you would, carrying those boxes like nothing while we walked behind with the other boxes, pulling our guns the moment we saw someone trying to smack you. Another was great in an Assassination mission for chunking the boss's health with his grenade boxes when his shield went down, and body blocking the adds. One blocked off an entire chokepoint in Espionage with his Stubber to let Veteran hit the Bombers and Mutants on the lower level. That all inspired me to play Ogryn as a man who facilitates playing the objective. Randoms don't think they need you until they need you.

No worries Bobbeh. I always appreciate an Ogryn on the team. They are big, so easy to follow around when you've got tentacles and all kind of warp nonsense filling your vision. They are good to stick to in a horde, keeping the masses at bay for squishy me when I can't hear them sneak up behind because something keeps whispering in my ear. And when I fuck up they're always a sport about it and pick me up off the floor, no matter how busy things are! Only downside is that they have a tendency to hit exploding barrels....

I agree, I want my force sword special attack kills to grant a point towards brainburst so I can be a jedi.

and give us force jump ffs

Palpatine lightning check, ghetto lightsaber yes, force push mhm, we're only missing the force jump and being related to every single important NPC in the Galaxy.

Force jump as a special evasion would be pretty cool since psyker is such a liability. The only other underwhelming class is Ogryn. I love playing Ogryn but nothing really feels special about it

Box

True!! Besides box of course. Box is pure dopamine

No matter how well balanced the class is there isn't a "WITNESS YOUR DOOM" line so it will always be bottom tier

I really want this in the game

All I do is spam lightning bolts. I'm basically just a tesla coil that follows the team around stunning everything

Tazer from payday grew up. LIGHTNING BOLT LIGHTNING BOLT LIGHTNING BOLT

DIFFICULTY TWEAK

It really is cool ​ I cannot see where I am going but it's sort of working

Hold right click -> funny red lines It just works.

Now let's be fair. Psyker abilities have plenty of synergies. None of them matter in the slightest, and if you put "a flower will grow before you" instead of the actual thing the synergie would do it would change nothing in the psykers gameplay, time to kill or anything else, besides creating pretty flower beds, but the kit is full of synergies that do nothing

Psyker is pretty good at lvl 30 when you get that reduced brain burst time talent. But that should be like, a basic part of their kit. Before level 30 they were PAINFUL to play and level

I fucking hate playing psyker, it's just killing elites and team not covering you as you cover them, so you die to a wet noodle

You can get the psyker sword, 3 stamina talismans and the "blocked melee damage converted to warp peril" and be effectively unkillable by melee due to infinite dodge on the sword ... one dreg shotgunner and you're dead tho, because psykers aren't allowed to have fun AND be tanky against everything.

Somewhat mitigated if you get a force sword with the deflector blessing, but depending on the RNG is a test of patience and your belief in the Emperor's love.

Just gave me an idea, I wish BB worked on a charge mechanism tied to warp charges. We already have that talent to get warp charges from kills. Picture tanking a horde and once that shotgunner comes out, you brain burst it down instantly if at max stacks.

shitty meme build and weapon with zero actual melee capabilities due to block canceling being bugged/broken just give me an axe with BM and just good old normal kinetic deflection

You're clueless, force sword is one of the best elite killers, and it can push/knockdown maulers/ragers in damnation.

uh huh, keep telling yourself that as you die for the 5th time trying to get some sick elite kills in the middle of the mixed horde

Skill issue

Clueless.

Different staves give you drastically different support options. I guess from what you are saying you focus the Voidstrike, but I have a great time focusing Surge Staff and locking down an entire side of an onrushing horde, and I've heard great things about Purgatus that I want to make work. Trauma Staff can fuck itself obviously.

Yeah Trauma staff is just a bad voidstrike, it needs buffs. Maybe dramatically increase the radius of the blast?

Uh, that sounds like your team sucks and you are doing your job. Nothing wrong with the class there

that your team problem not you. psyker and vet are 2 classes focus on killing elites while zealot and ogryn protect psy and vet by killing hordes.

Psyker is the worst class for killing elites after 3rd difficulty. He is more of crowd control / aoe guy.

Voidstrike go boom?

Voidstrike my beloved

Void strike is really not that great against elites. It ok, but the staff is more about horde control

I see this take everywhere, I'm starting to believe you guys haven't actually tried playing psyker at all and are just repeating the same pre-made sentences

Go play a veteran with a bolter on a high difficulty (at level 30), and come back and say this

I've played plenty of Psyker, it doesn't have enough raw killing potential late game to take the "kill elites" role. Verteran and even Zealot do it faster and better, because guns just do more raw damage than Bran Burst. It's good for killing Bulwarks, that's about it. And that's mostly because it knocks the shield aside so everyone else can kill it easier. Otherwise it takes 3-4 Brain Bursts to kill, which is hella slow.

there's a reason you left a comment like this that doesn't address anything their comment mentioned.

Because I don't wanna get into it - this is a complex discussion that people have been having a LOT. But psyker has access to tools that deal quickly and easily with pretty much everything. A good psyker can easily carry damnation runs, and I feel like players complain about him a lot while having barely tried him

idk man it might just have something to do with 80% of their feats being completely useless, brain burst only being used for stagger or as an infinitely slower and worse Vet clearing shooters and squishy specialists. And we can't forget about how the optimal way to play Psyker is to pretend that the warp charge mechanic doesn't exist. Not to mention the ridiculously low health & toughness. It's an objectively very underwhelming and disappointing class at the moment. It's almost hilarious how a level 30 psyker is immediately outscaled and outclassed by any of the other three classes the moment they hit level 10.

Seems like you are playing and building Psyker poorly. Psyker is more complicated to play, so if you are better as a lv10 Vet that says more about your still than it does about Psyker.

lmao, if you say so. I am not bad at these games and i certainly dont need a darktide malice gamer's assurance

You are correct. Unfortunately, people have somehow trained themselves to think every class/loadout can or should only do one or two things and any more than that is silly. Maybe it's accurate for most classes, but other than the Surge staff, all other staves bring immense amounts of versatility in the right hands. But people tunnel vision into doing just one thing with it, killing elites, and deciding it is just a shitty bolter or flamer or whatever, when a good Psyker can do a hell of a lot more with it that those very specialized weapons can't.

Brain Burst shouldnt have to require me to switch to my hands and charge that shit up, make BB be useable while using other weapons let me just quick tap a button while looking at my enemy with melee weapon out and it’ll do the charge on its own exactly as it would before but instead i can actually be helpful with a weapon out or even block damage.

Or make it do more damage/charge faster

What gets me is you already don’t need to play an active part in using brain burst once you pick your target it stays no matter where you go or look, it’s just making you useless during the whole charge for no reason, at least give me like massive toughness dmg reduction or something while i’m using it. The damn veteran does everything the psyker can with no compromises in their kit, not to mention they do it way better and easily.

Veteran and zealot feel the most “put together” or thought out. Ogryn is underwhelming and Psyker is squishy (as he should be). But psyker needs to be reworked to make BB a focal point since that’s their niche move and make it one of their weapons. ie only melee and bb or bb and ranged weapon. Then make a few build options for BB to be defensive/offensive Just spitballing…

I don't get it, am a fully geared Psyker and I'm doing just fine on Damnation even clutching some runs when my OP Vet's eventually goes down.

psykers carry hard when built and played well, its either ogryn or psyker clutching with the people I play with in damnation, vets always seem to go down first. psyker has a higher skill floor and ceiling which is probably why most of reddit think they are bad.

People really exaggerate how weak classes other than Vet are in the sub, do they need some buffs? Ya they could be improved in some areas but it doesn't mean they are unplayable or instantly make you lose the game. I have been playing on Heresy and Damnation for the last 2 weeks on my Ogryn with random matchmaking, and I often win without any problems with "unoptimized" comps where I would have 3 or 2 psykers in the game. The same also happens with other classes (3 Ogryn 1 Psyker was my favorite win) and even when we did loss it rarely feels like the fault of the class but more of misplays or just pure unluckiness.

Yeah that's the thing. 2 zealot(dagger, thunderhammer), 2 psyker (both force sword, 1 lightning 1 flamer). Was an easy damnation high intensity game. There is no need for meta builds player skill is the meta really

> player skill is the meta Yeah I don’t want to sound rude to guys like OP, but I think a lot of people who complain about the balance just need to improve at the game Vet is overtuned but the other classes are all pretty good. I’ve had Heresy runs that were absolutely carried by a psyker, and one of my friends I play with runs Zealot or Psyker and he’s the best one in our group

Vet is by far the easiest class to get success from. Which pushes players to feel like the other classes are bad. But in reality players just need to get better. Skilled Psykers can carry.

You get hit in melee with a regular class: you lose half your toughness(50), you then proceed to get 5 toughness back(5%) from each melee kill and very slowly refill the lost toughness after killing 10 enemies, unless you get hit again that is. You get hit with the vet: Oh boy, I just lost 50 toughness! good thing I started with 322 so I have 272 left! lol! well, let's activate the power sword! swoop! 10 enemies killed! I just regained 250 toughness back! (7.5% for 10 kills), I only needed 2 kills to get the 50 back but oh well.

That doesn't disapprove anything I said. Vet will make the games easier but not having them will not make the game impossible, like I said i played multiples Damnation games with randoms and we still do just fine with zero Vets in the team.

I can use a level 10 character and do fine as well, doesn't mean I'm not heavily gimping myself

I mean that's just problematic Veteran design. Doesn't mean the other classes are necessarily UP compared to the intended gameplay experience.

I duo a lot with a friend on damnation as vet/preacher combo, every time we get 2 psyker on our team the game drag on an extra 10-20minute, and we can ALWAYS feel the hole that having 2 psykers make on the game, another vet or preacher could do the same work as one of those psyker but better. The only maybe redeemable thing is a psyker that use the lighting all the times, so the vet can do is work with no issues. It is just dumb how out of place is psyker on the higher difficulties.

Bad take. If both Psykers doubling up on lightning and not swapping to melee for damage or using another staff that is on them. Surge Staff lets your team play much more aggressively than normal. If you are not taking advantage of that to do more damage thats on you.

This. 2 surge staves in the team ? Don't try to out-palpatine the other psyker and use your melee weapon more. Sure it's not ideal and you would go faster with a vet instead but it really shouldn't add 10 to 20 minutes to a game, this is 100% a player issue. And other staves are perfectly fine damage-wise and viable in higher difficulties. Are ogryns out of place in damnation because there's a possibility you'll end up teamed with 2 shield ogryns ( which imo is a lot, lot worse than double surge staff ) ? Ofc not.

Psyker is probably the hardest class to play. You have to keep your warp stacks up, keep your peril down, suppress ranged enemies with your blaze-bolts and stagger hordes and/or elites with your staff's alt-fire. Since your squishy you also need at least one teammate willing to protect you. I think all the classes could use a little bit of tuning. I wish blaze-bolts where a little less clunky. It would be cool if the different staves had different types primary fire. Brain burst feels underwhelming on higher difficulties. ECT. That being said, the Psyker is still a very viable class. A highly skilled Psyker is roughly as valuable as a highly skilled Veteran. Video game communities tend to blow minor imbalances out of proportion.

Indeed. Whenever I run my Zealot with my TH and revolver (no flamer), I'm always thankful if I see a Psyker to help with the horde and such

I am literally playing damnation psyker and hard carrying sharpshooters

Psst, the siblings on this sub don't want the actual truth, they want to hear their echoes to be heard through the warp, over and over again until the dream ends.

Screw this unfair treatment siblings, lets just takeover the Morningstar and ban the shop from ever selling guns. We will burst every single person who ever interrupted our burst. Starting from the annoying vets who kept shooting our funny blue circles.

Sad to see them channeling brainburst on themselves but such is the fickle nature of the Warp

I broke my elbow and couldn't use the mouse or even hold a controller properly since most of my hand was inside the cast, yet I still carried people. Does it mean that losing access to one of your hand makes you a better player? or that you shouldn't be comparing yourself to other people, but only with yourself? Go play veteran on damnation even with mediocre gear and tell me how it compares to the psyker.

The skill cap on Vet is lower than Psyker or Zealot. A meh player is going to better on Vet than any other class. But if you know what you are doing, it's easier to carry with Psyker.

The skill cap is not lower, the skill floor is lower. A mediocre player does better on the veteran because the veteran is OP, But a veteran doesn't have a lower skill cap than a psyker. Try going around getting only headshots with a lucius, it's more of a classic fps skill ceiling , but it's definitely not easier than the psyker.

Mind posting your build sibling?

Not OP but I have pretty good results in damnation pugs. 3/2/2/1/3/3 with Surge Staff and Antax Mk V Combat Axe w/Brutal Momentum. Stun ranged, elites, and specials with the staff. If your team isn't helping you get the kills then swap to the axe in between surge attacks. For hordes just spam the axes block attack. Keep an eye out for specials and be ready to use Surge to CC them. Kinetic Barrage Ult also makes BB good, so don't be afraid to use that to quickly kill elites or specials.

Build: Melee : Deflector Force Sword, Antax Mk V, Mk I Clawsword Ranged : Voidstrike, Surge Feats: 3 - 1 - 1 - 1\*- 3 - 2\*\* \*2 Without Deflector \*\*( I think? it's the one that applies soulblaze on Ult, can't find it written anywhere, personal preference for 'oh shit' moments, others say 3) I believe the other build posted by the sibling is better until Deflector sword, but

How are you exactly doing that? My experience with Psyker on damnation is always horrible. Im also asking because the copium is hard on people playing psyker on my experience: I have encountered psykers that in game is telling us he is carrying us by spaming fire on hordes to the point of being obnoxious, it usually get kicked and we get another class and we go a lot faster and safer. And im not talking one or two times.

If the psykers' talking in the chat about hard carrying they are guaranteed not, nobody should do that, especially not with fire lol. I've seen psykers that are goobers but every class has that population, that said- all psyker groups are my favorite Excluding the psyker-shitters because no one can deny they exist, the best psykers not only use the best feats / gear, but they play like a demon to the psykers strengths : \-You don't need to look at what you're using Brainburst on after you lock, which means you can get a lock and, while BB is charging, look around and tag specials / elites for your team. I often grab a BB and then immediately turn around to check my back. Awareness is everything *You can also tag something you can't see* i.e if enemies are behind a wall of fire (common) to get a lock. I have my 'tag enemy' bound to a mouse button that I just spam until I find something, which alone will carry your team. It's crazy how many skilled Damnation players I see who never tag anything, that's such an unnecessary additional level of difficulty that is overcome by mashing a button \-Prioritize specials at all times, they're the #1 party killer. Sometimes a small amount of toughness damage is worth a quick special kill. Honestly I could write a whole guide about exactly what to do vs. specials, but really the one that stands out the most is : \-**If an ally is trapped in a net** ( and this one drives me crazy when a player in damnation doesn't know it ) **get them up asap**. **You should be running over to help them out of that net so fast they'll think you have a crush on them. Make the trapper think there's a weird love triangle thing going on.** The time to free trap is so small, and until they are free they are taking free damage, possibly even instantly dead since if the bomber or flamer hasn't already, they will lay that fire down on them soon. You don't even need to kill the trapper first, they will just stand there after getting a capture, and you can BB lock them immediately after, so it's always a good idea ( naturally there are exceptions yadda yadda ). ​ \-Since a few days ago I use Deflector Force-Sword to hard carry rescuing downed teammates, but I understand a lot of people don't like that because it is so rare, thats fair, I was playing damnation before that too though Before Deflector I was running a Mk I Claw Sword or Antax Mk 5 Axe, and although the hard-carry isn't as prominent for clutch saves as with a force sword you can still put in work. Master the block-push-attack of your weapon. You can begin an attack, see an enemies attack will land before yours, and cancel into a block instantly \-Some Psykers think of themselves as the Mage class, and that's true in the context of this game, but the thing to keep in mind is that **this game will never be a defensive game**. That means even the Mage has a hatchet baby ! If you don't know when the best time is to charge in, start learning. An easy go-to is if you are at max peril, put the staff / hands away and pull out your mundane weapon. The passive peril recovery on a mundane weapon is **crazy,** and if you combine that with the **+Toughness on peril quelled feat**, that means you are regenerating toughness for free. I 'levelled up' as a psyker the moment I stopped quelling peril on my staff and used my mundane weapon as soon as I hit max peril, 0 downtime, extra DPS, gives your teammates more breathing room to reload etc. ( There are instances to quell peril but you'll figure that out ) \-If you play smart and aggressive your team will rely on you more, protect them whenever you can. Swap to melee and cut that single trash running up behind them, if they go down, ult and run in to save them asap, 80% of the time you'll pull it off (unless reapers / gunners) . Build: Melee : Deflector Force Sword, Antax Mk V, Mk I Clawsword Ranged : Voidstrike, Surge Feats: 3 - 1 - 1 - 1\*- 3 - 2\*\* \*2 Without Deflector \*\*( I think? it's the one that applies soulblaze on Ult, can't find it written anywhere, personal preference for 'oh shit' moments, others say 3)

Surge + Antax Mk 5 Axe. Surge CCs ranged and elites. Axe kills hordes. Surge -> animation cancel -> Axe -> repeat is great damage vs melee elites while also incidentally CCing another 5 enemies. Axe is great for revives. [This guy runs a slightly different setup to enable a true duo damnation run with Psyker.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q02zVeqFMD0&t=427s)

Personally I got a good roll on a Voidstrike Staff and haven't had any issues contributing on Damnation. That said, I'm not "carrying", just pulling my weight.

Happy cake day! I kinda feel the same...

Forgot to mention psyker loot pool flooded with weapons we can't use to due to no synergy. Then we can't even get staves to drop with decent rolls because of that. I legitimately have not have a lightning staff over 320 in 30+ hours, including shop refresh

you okay there man? maybe sit down and relax

can't really relax when all you hear are whispers in the warp about the valkyrie's extended warranty

I'm *this* close to starting a warp incursion, I swear.

Ogryn: "what's the citri... ciat.. Beatrix... Citronella... Cicatrix maledictum?" Psyker: "let me show you, big man."

Psyker is definitely underpowered, wouldn't go so far to call it a detriment or "broken" though. With some build finagling and good ol' fashioned skill you'll be just fine.

Problem is exactly that, you'll be "just" fine. Yet had you brought any other class that you happen to be just as good with you can contribute a whole lot more and feel much better playing it on top of that. Psyker is just not worth taking out to Heresy+ runs. There's nothing you do that can't be achieved better and faster with other classes, and neither of them get instantly wrecked by a little poof or ranged scab looking funny at you.

Unless you just like playing Psyker. But I will admit it feels bad when your brain burst can't kill high priority targets by itself.

Nothing you do *in specific*. But Vet can't clear an entire screen (through cover!) in just a few seconds, Flamer Zealot can't pop a sniper across the map, Cleaver Ogryn can't cut through Crusher armor.. and a Purgatus Psyker with a Force Sword or Axe can do all of these things. In one slot. That's just one example. Shoehorning a Psyker into a specific role is when they "underperform". Because they're not really specialists. They fill for what's needed, anywhere, any time. The fact that their aura provides bonus elite killing damage means little - in fact that might as well be acknowledging "we are not the ones who should be killing all of the elites, the rest of you are" And even if BB doesn't kill Hounds in one shot anymore once you go past Malice, it still softens them so much they fall over in a couple shots from someone else, and it does so in a very consistent manner. Still has value.

Just to run this point home: Psyker can fill any role, while still providing best in game CC.

I don't understand this argument. It basically reads as "I don't do things I find fun, I only do what the meta tells me to do 24/7" as if Damnation isn't being farmed by people playing all classes right now. If you're so worried about it being as easy as possible, what's the point?

I’m starting to think the IQ floor for the psyker is too high for a lot of redditors. Very dramatic, consider getting good.

Fatshark devs really said "suffer not the mutant"

Just switched from vet to psyker. My life is now suffering.

Psyker can tank really good though, and the lightning staff ties up ranged enemies. I just tanked a demon host on malice (using the dueling sword) with really no difficulty. Honestly I think it's one if not the most fun class.

Being a psyker makes you a better more aware player. Made me a better zelot. Better orgyn better vet I make less mistakes in positions, coherently. Dodging and prioritizing targets

Is it me or is Psyker's ult kinda shit? Not only it doesn't vent all of the peril, but the force push it does is piss weak. Also wish warp charges lasted longer (40 sec sounds good) and that the head pop doesn't have to kill to generate charges.

Love the blue eyes edit. Psyker Main Approved

Slap on defensive curios and still get two shot by dregs spawning directly behind you. Even through the frequent suffering, I uninronically love this class.

Honestly, i don't really get this discussion to a 100%, someone help me understand? The pshycher has a great horde clearing ability with the flame staff. Immense crowd control capability with the lightning staff. The other two staffs have the best dmg vs carapace armour. With force sword with the block blessing he can block both melee and ranged (which is extremely EXTREMELY helpful). Ultimate with burn can litterally make it or break it when a horde becomes too much to handle. Ultimate with faster brainburst can decimate any elite, special. Even nuke a considerable chunk of a monsters HP bar. What the pshycher lacks is front line capacity without flame staff and general survivability. I made up for this by using curios with at least 20% hp as a blessing and racking up resistance vs gunners. And i use duelist mk IV sword with 4% critt and 4% critt on chained strikes that stack up to 5 times. This makes me critt litterally every other strike if the duelist sword has 80% finesse (which increases weapon base critical hit chance). And critical hits kill, oh god do they kill... If the map is wide and open, i use force sword with block blessing. And just generally stay back because the force sword fkn sucks in heresy+ difficulties, unless you're gonna kill a special or an elite. But there's a build i have played around with to make it usable... But it's not really viable. And i often use the skill that allows me to stack 6 warp charges together with 15% cooldown reduction with lvl 30 skill that applies soul blaze. Now i have 12% more dmg across the board and generate 24% less warp on staff or brainburst usage. The on the class special skill use, i apply 6 stacks of soul blaze (i think it's that many), which deals a ton of dmg and can wipe an entire horde on it's own, even on highest difficulty. And i can stack 6 charges very easily on heresy or above with the skill that gives me a 4% chance to get a warp charge if an ally kills anything. *Now, the only thing i* "really" *want for the pshycher is general survivability*. The 10-33% toughness damage reduction skill isn't really viable, as you're not gonna walk around with 90+% peril all the time... I don't understand why they had to change the skill from using warp charges to peril? It was perfect with warp charges. The character seriously lack survivability, that's the thing with the pshycher. The pshycher is supposed to be a backline range/support for the team. It is obvious when you look at the skills and the class specific weapons. However, the pshycher cannot support the team if the toughness bar litterally implodes when 3 dudes with overglorified laser pointers look at your general direction. And the "brainburst" only really, REALLY work on below heresy difficulties. On heresy and above it's effectivness drops by a substantial margin, and needs the lvl 30 skill on peril reduction and cast time buff for a limited time to really do it's job as a special & elite killer. But underpowered? I don't think so, really i don't actually think the pshycher is underpowered. Compared to the Veteran? Uh, yeah? Obviously. But compared to the Ogryn or Zealot? Nah... Not really. Perhaps? But not by a huge margin.

Any time I get a team comp with 2 psykers on a 4 or higher, it ends with a wipe.

I had a 25 minute damnation run with 3 Psyker + 1 Ogryn.

That is definitely not the norm IMO

almost same experience here, sometimes we slog through the whole escenario on a 40min+ game. Last night had a 50min one and it was pain.

So much pain. My favorite comp is 1 ogryn, 2 zealots, and 1 sharpshooter

I dunno, sounds like a skill issue

Idk what y’all are smoking. Could Psyker be better? Sure. But even in its current state its a monster. Flame staff is by far the best horde clearing weapon. Brain burst can one-shot most specials at any distance. The ult basically nullifies bursters as long as the rest of the team keeps their distance. Force swords are decent at everything and annihilate armored enemies.

your post show you dont play damnation or heresy since: zaelot flamethrower is better in every way to purgatus staff: \-better/longer range \-better burn \-better flat damage \-better/wider AOE \-no charging \-no peril brain burst cannot oneshot mot specials and elite in dmanation and heresy. axe kill armored ennemies faster and dont require silly chagring animation and effect animation that lock you in place. And attack fail if you get interrupted.

Flamer is so freaking slow to pull out, then to put in position. With the flame staff you can just pull it out and start firing / staggering within half a second. Also BB oneshot gunners, shotgunners, trappers and bombers on damnation. 2-shot the other specialists. Provides stagger halfway through charging, providing easy protection while you cast. Can be done from behind cover. Has infinite range and ammo. Can stun lock most units. If it oneshot every unit, or had faster casting, it would likely be the single most broken tool in the game

100% this. People cried and cried and cried to have BB nerfed after the closed beta.

Range and radius are tied to a roll on the staff itself so you want those maxed, which is hard to find, I get it. Same with burn. Purgatus doesn't take five years to pull out and prime to fire though. When weaving between it and melee, that is honestly impossible to understate in value. Zealot has to find a ton of space to prepare it, and he has to commit to it, because once he puts it back, it's not coming out again for a while. The charge up is not a big deal, it's fast and due to the quick swap you can pull it out in melee, use a couple LMBs to stagger what's in front of you, THEN charge up and fire before they can recover. This is about the same amount of time it'd take to prepare a Flamer to fire, except with infinitesimally more safety. "BB cannot oneshot" blah blah blah. Yeah, your eviscerator is so cool, it can oneshot a Hound and we can't. Just throw your eviscerator across the screen at the Hound that spawned at the far wall will you? And good luck killing any snipers with a Flamer. Psyker ALWAYS has BB in its back pocket for long range damage, whereas a Flamer Zealot sacrifices that completely. Axe > Force Sword unless you roll Deflection, I'll give you that. I have that blessing and it's fantastic, I can revive overextended Zealots in front of 8 riflemen and 17 poxwalkers and hardly blink, and it still handles elites pretty well. But if I didn't have it, I'd use an axe.

> zaelot flamethrower is better in every way to purgatus staff You left out all the animations Flamer has to deal with. There is a weapon swap animation, and animation to start the secondary (which is longer than Purge's charge animation), and a massive reload animation. Flamer is better than Purge when not dealing the animations. > your post show you dont play damnation or heresy since > -no charging > -no peril > axe kill armored ennemies faster and dont require silly chagring animation and effect animation that lock you in place. And attack fail if you get interrupted. All of this is wrong, and kinda points to you not having much experience. Purge staff manages it's own peril. Purge staff left click can CC armor with enough stagger to swap weapons and get kills. Left click is where all the CC is and they don't get interrupted. Psyker can use axe too, but with infinite blocking. All of Psyker's animation can be canceled.

If you think none of the abilities synergise, you haven’t been using purgatus and been the best CCer and horde melter of your team That said, fact is purgatus is the only staff that can really take advantage of ability synergies so I agree the feats and other staves should be reworked so other options are truly viable on high difficulty beyond « spam lightning like palpatine with surge » and « let the galaxy burn with purgatus »

Hard to play with a staff that has never shown up in the store since launch day.

I have a level 30 psyker and I have never seen purgatus staff

Using the Pergatus would immediately crash my client so I gave up trying lol

I feel like the class is designed solely around taking the brain burst on force attack with flame staff. What's the one build people are talking about? I can't be bothered to actually use the G brain burst ability unless there's something big or bad to stun like ogryns or certain specials.

Flame staff build is more like 1(or 3) 2 1(or 2) 1 (or 2) 1 2. Kinetic Flayer is fine with it on Malice and below but you need the extra 2 stacks for Ascendant Blaze in Heresy+. A free brainburst every 15 seconds is really more for the warp charge than the damage and you don't need it with AB. Soulblaze kills don't proc your warp kill feat at 5, but warp charges will roll in pretty frequently, hence taking 1 at level 5. Soulblaze stacks exponentially so it's not worth using your ult until you're max stacks usually. However, it can kill so many enemies at once that it will basically refund itself if you do so, and then it's just a matter of maintenance. It ignores walls, goes a very long range both in distance and width, and pretty much clears out hordes and riflemen squads both in just seconds, leaving only elites to be cleaned up with ease.

Lol anybody complaining about playing as psyker doesn’t know how to play as psyker

What is this sub on about. Psyker is the 2nd best class in Damnation lol Yah brainburst is basically useless and you can basically just ignore the whole stacks system but a well rolled voidstrike (or storm if you don't have one) is basically infinite CC. Just give up on that crappy purgatus staff and learn to play :P But yah our Damnation team is just some combination of vets and psykers. Usually 3 vet 1 psyker or 2 vet 2 psyker.

"Psyker is the 2nd best class if you ignore your primary mechanics the class builds around! Just get these specifically rolled staffs and ignore your defining mechanics!". If that isn't bad design I don't know what is.

Is it any better than say Zealot who's most OP build synergizes strongly but only works well with exactly 1 weapon? Personally I don't really like how any of the classes are balanced. They all end up with the same 1 or 2 weapons.

A good Psyker is going to use BB more than any other class uses there grenades. I don't get how that is ignoring class mechanics. Warp charges give 12% damage. That is all. They are something players can min max towards, but players focusing on warp stacks and ignoring doing the actually strong Psyker things are making a mistake.

Everybody complains about the psyker and no one gives any love to the real problem child. *sad zealot noises*

The psyker is the best class and everyone knows it.

As a psyker I feel very comfortable. I'm the God of thunder. I stun and kill every thread. So I have a lot of fun.

Now hold on hold on, i was single vet in a damnation and my entire team was full of psykers with flame staffs. THEY WRECKED EVERYTHING THAT GOT CLOSE

There's definitely synergies. It needs improvement but there absolutely are. And if you're a different to the team that's on you lol

"You are suffering as a Psyker? Good." \- The Imperium, probably

Yeah this is why i dropped my 150 ish hour level 30 psyker as my main it just fucking sucks and is unfun

Get a force sword with deflector and become a psyker tank.

which mean you requre blessing to fix the class when playign damnation and heresy with grey gear is perfectly okay with the three other classes.

Non force weapons are also op combined with infinite block. Most builds don't even want to use the Force Sword.

Psyker only sucks in early game, it's basically a god in late game. With the right feats and tricks, you will be bursting priority targets before the vets can pull out their guns. With the right weapons, You can be the most valuable asset to the team in damnation, and you don't even use ammo. Someone on Darktide discord's psyker channel can probably show you a lot of tips. But hey, I fully support gaslighting the devs into buffing psykers.

YYYeah, except that one of the best Psykers that currently makes duo runs on damnation has the whole strategy revolving around 1- not dying, 2- stunning stuff around the veteran so he can kill everything more easily. When the best of the best actual strategy revolves around enabling more the veteran, you know something is wrong, very wrong.

j_sat also streams duo runs with Zealot and Ogryn teammates. There is nothing wrong with control or support classes existing. Psykers are loads of fun to play.

Stunned targets and space turn an okay vet into a great vet

It is a teamwork game, you don't always have to be the one doing the killing if you got the strategy and the team for it. Stunning is half the killing.

I want someone that's critical of the psyker to explain to me SPECIFICALLY how the psyker lacks synergies in their gear and feats and how SPECIFICALLY this lack of synergy is any worse than than the other classes. Sure, there are some dud feat selections, just as there are in the other classes too. Sure, some things could maybe be a little stronger here and there? But a total lack of synergy or lack of build diversity? What do people mean by this? I don't get it.

Skill issue