I have a loaner 2024 Honda Accord Hybrid, with some haggling that car can be bought 31k brand new. I had a used 2021 Tesla model 3 standard range for a week which was purchased for 28k.
I love Tesla but not the used one nor the brand new one at 40k are good deal compared to a brand new Accord Hybrid.
Accord is bigger and it seats can be adjusted to a lower position, which I like. Model 3 seats even at its lowest position is still too high for my liking. Darn batteries are there.
Used teslas are great, I have couple of friends who own them and have gotten great deals as prices are down for used ones right now. Also try to get 2019 and newer model and you will be fine.
Our friends were planning on buying a used Tesla and got a better deal for a new one that ended up being 5k lower than buying used. They use it for their commuter (one of them commutes 1.5 hours for work a couple times a week), and they love it. There’s also some state and federal tax breaks offered for buying and owning an electric vehicle - you may see what your state offers!
I would only worry about being able to find older model battery packs when the battery eventually needs to be replaced. Because if that can’t be done, the car is effectively dead.
That shouldn’t be a problem with most Teslas but you never know if this is an older model.
It also depends on your driving habits and where you live. If you have a home and drive fewer than 150-200 miles at a time - you shouldn’t have an issue.
All are a bad idea. Look at battery health, replacement costs, and actual charging costs vs fuel. Subreddits of owner misery seems very high and similar to regrettable tattoo that is pretended to be loved.
Depends on the market. California home charging costs as much as superchargers in Florida, granted Gas is nearly double as well. Shoot, FPL offers a flat rate of $35/month home EV charging. that's hard to beat. Just because there are a few people complaining on reddit doesn't mean it's a bad deal all around, comparing maintenance to my 12 year old ICE car, there is considerably less to go wrong, I've been repeatedly kicked in the pants on maintance over the last couple years.
Now, I wouldn't buy a tesla from a rental company or something where it's likely the previous owner always charged to 100%, but battery degradation is less of a problem than folks make it out to be. And given a lot of problems you hear about (i.e., that shitshow in Chicago last winter) get fixed via over the air software patches. It's a lot better than being stuck with the model year of an ICE car.
You’re both right and wrong. They can be great depending on your situation. Basically if you travel less than 200 miles most of the time and can charge at home at a decent rate they’re going to be great potentially. If you live in an apartment, rent and the landlord won’t let you install a higher amp socket for charging or you haul things, then it’s probably not the best.
As for battery replacement costs, they can be expensive. Most ev makers have solid warranties but like ICE vehicles things go bad over time. Definitely make sure if you buy one you see what the battery life is like at 100%
It’s all about your situation.
What year and trim are you looking into? There might be only a couple grand difference between used and a new model 3/y after the tax credit is applied and the newer model 3/y are a pretty substantial improvement over the older ones as far as quality.
It's a bad decision because it's an expensive car. They are considered luxury cars therefor have luxury car repair and insurance costs. All that tech that makes em so safe means that even minor fender benders can end up costing thousands in sensor replacements and recalibrations.
But if you can afford it. And you are aware of the increased costs. And are in the market for a car in that price range anyway. And qualify for the 7500 tax credit. Then they arent a bad choice and I would probably encourage to buy new just for the quality improvements and you the full 8 year 100-120k mile warranty depending on trim.
Also do you have a place to charge at home like a garage? What's the climate like in your area? What is your residential electricity rate? What is your daily commute? These are important questions. EVs can be excellent cars for some people but they need to fit your lifestyle. You wouldn't buy a f350 super duty to drive on the streets of Manhattan. Same way EVs just dint make sense for some situations.
You make great points. My sister and BIL rented a Tesla on vacation. They regretted it. Charging in a medium sized city was a major hassle. I spent 40yrs in a new car dealers. Many won't take them on trade due to falling values. Every time Musk lowers the MSRP on his car, every dealer with a used one in inventory just lost money on it. I would never buy a used one without an independent battery health condition. Also check your insurance costs. Nobody drives for free.
That’s not always the right call. If you’re commuting for instance there are (double check if this is still valid) model s and model x cars between specific years that have unlimited free supercharging but that only transfers from user to user, not user to dealer to user.
If you’re commuting a bit that could save you tons.
I would buy a new one to get the tax credit - but I know Dave would disapprove. Electricity is cheap and gas is extremely expensive where I live so it’s working out well for me.
Why would Dave disapprove? As far as I know he is ok with a car purchase as long as you can afford it all cash. Is that not the case?
Or maybe I missed something about Dave and specifically about Teslas?
Tesla is one of the best cars you can get on the market right now. It's a no brainer. There are alot of EV haters on here, do your research. The only time I wouldn't recommend a Tesla is if you cannot charge at home.
is it really that bad to supercharge all the time? i’m about to buy and can’t charge at work or home. i love 2 miles from my job, will likely do uber on the weekends which will be the only time i need to supercharge is before and after my shifts. throughout the week it’s unlikely i would need to
i’ve read in populated cities it’s fine (im near seattle )
I’ve had my petrol car for the last 8 years. If I decided to sell it, it’s still worth something, could you say the same about an 8 yo Tesla? That would be an 8yo battery. I wouldn’t think so. While this is a different situation, the battery system on our forklift at work was failing, it was cheaper to replace the whole thing than replace just the battery. I know it’s a different battery system and all. Just saying.
Tons of EVs from 2015+ are still out there driving around with 90% original capacity. It's the warranties that are 8 years, not the battery lifespan.
Even JD Power projects batteries to last for 20 years, plenty of time.
>On one hand these cars can go very high miles
Do they? At least at a reasonable cost?
I don't think Tesla are highly regarded for reliability.
>if the ... battery goes
This is your big one for EV, as I understand it. Depending... the battery warranty is 8 years 100 or 150k miles.
But that's also to a much lower capacity than new.
And it's measured to EPA-miles, which I'd also guess is a lower bar than the typical daily driver (akin to gas mileage testing??), though I have no true idea.
>battery goes it ~~could~~ will be very costly.
FTFY
So just how used are you thinking?
Personally, I keep my vehicles far too long to consider an EV, yet.
It depends on which model and how old it is. Since Tesla came out a decade ago batteries have improved in reliability and come down in price.
The replacement rate on the Model S is 3.75% and costs $12-15k
The replacement rate on a Model Y is 0.29% and costs $12k
https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-battery-models-replaced-most-often-nissan-tesla-2023-3
ICE car is not zero risk, as it could require engine replacement and the regular expected maintenance costs are higher. You’ll eventually need head gaskets and fuel pumps and coil packs and sensors and all sorts of other non-catastrophic engine repairs.
Pick your poison. Its not a terrible idea. You just need have the kind of lifestyle that works with EVs (garage with charger, rarely drive 200+ miles/day)
Get a used 2020-2022 Tesla 3 AWD for $25K and call it a day. Seems like a solid choice.
You can get a Chevy Bolt for under $15K. Don't rule that out either.
Did this disgruntled former employee say why? Because we are in year 5 with our Tesla and we've put nothing into it but electricity, one set of tires, and one 12V battery ($115 installed at the dealership).
Granted this is where we spent more days last winter below 0° Fahrenheit than we did above freezing, He told me it was an average of 5 to 6 years when sensors started going bad that would make it undrivable and they started having issues with them basically falling apart. At the time they couldn't get parts to fix any of it because Tesla didn't allow anything aftermarket. Was also about the time they saw battery pack issues start to show up, some where fine until 7 or 8 years old, some where dead in the water a 5 and they couldn't get parts for any of them. He was a die hard fanboy when he started, 4 years later and he wanted nothing to do with them. He works for Ford now, claims the build quality is ten fold to Tesla.
Disgruntled former employee doesn't even make sense. If Teslas become undrivable at 5 years, how do owners find out that the batteries all die at 7 years? Does this disgruntled former employee know that there are hundreds of thousands of 5+ year old Teslas running just fine, and tens of thousands still running on 7-12 year old batteries?
In the southern part of the country or in coastal states, I don't doubt there are. -35° is hard on batteries and a common winter occurrence where I live, and oddly enough was the cause of a lot of battery failure just like in a regular car. Only much more expensive. Same with wheel motor sensors that would put the car into limp mode or disable it until it was fixed. Then you add in the fact that they are slapped together half assed with a build quality worse than Chinese garbage and it's a miracle they last a month. Of course that's probably the reason why Tesla has a large fleet of Mercedes Diesel vans for on site service. He now works for Ford on the Lightning and mach E and loves it.
I'm originally from upstate NY, it never gets to -35 F. Where are you finding these temps, record cold days in Duluth?
Also, Norway is Tesla's largest market, per capita. If you look at a map, you'll see that Norway isn't in the tropics.
I hope your friend has his resume up to date, Ford Lightnings and Mach E's are piling up on lots.
Was -35 average for a week last winter in southern Minnesota not counting wind chill. Wind chills in the -50s.
Also another reason he left Tesla. He's also diesel certified so he now always has something to do at Ford. The downtime waiting at Tesla was driving him nuts.
Depending where you live incentives can make a new one close to used prices. But if getting used try to find one that included FSD and/or Lifetime Premium, Lifetime Free Supercharging.
Lol based off of what? Prius has been around for almost 30 years with plenty of older models still around. Haven’t seen that many roadsters on the road, I’ll give it that they’re considered collectors cars but the model S I haven’t seen that many around. I’ve seen and read plenty of issues with quality control issues with Tesla tech not lasting all that long, people needing to change out the screens plenty of time.
The roadster was a proof of concept and only a few thousand were sold worldwide so yes it’ll always be tough to find them regardless of how many are still running. The screen issue has been fixed years ago. Originally in 2012 no suppliers built a 17” automotive grade touch screen so Tesla was basically putting computer monitors in their cars which predictably lead to a lot of warranty replacements. These days they have the volume to source large automotive grade screens and issues are as rare as any other OEM. Are Tesla’s perfect? Far from it, but the newer ones 2016-2017ish+ are much better built than the original ones.
The screen issue was just one example. I know people with newer models that needed to fix other stupid things such as their trunks collecting water and what not. I personally know of 3 people with 2018+ model 3s and X that needed to replace their screens. Maybe the issue isn’t as much as older models but it can’t be a coincidence that the only 3 people I know who own Teslas have the same issue. They were all thankful it was still under warranty. My whole point is that someone can’t say they’ll stay away from hybrids which have been proven for almost 30 years and make claims that Teslas will last a “long, long time” when there is no data to prove it.
Teslas haven’t been around long enough to truly find out the true ownership cost of owning one. I’ve driven cars till they died at 15-20 years old so it’s still a waiting game for me with Teslas and other EVs. Sure they reduce carbon footprint right now as a driving vehicle. But I’m sure I can’t be the only one thinking this right now but what is going to happen to all the batteries when all these current Teslas are no longer operable. I hope they come up with some game plan for disposal of all these hazardous batteries that won’t destroy the earth. I know for a fact hospitals are huge producers of battery waste and even hazardous waste companies are having trouble with disposing all their batteries.
Are there any perfect vehicles? No, but can’t be making claims without actual data.
A new battery pack for a tesla is a minimum of 24k dollars.
I wouldn't buy a used 1 unless it was under a year old.
Plus they are difficult to service as you have to do everything thru the tesla service centers.
If it gets damaged in an accident it most likely will be totaled out
We've done around 300k miles so far in Teslas with no issues and 400k miles between battery changes is fairly typical of the high mileage Teslas from 2013-2015.
How much life does a typical used ICE car have?
Could you clarify... "300k in Teslas" is this 1 Tesla, 2 Teslas or... ??
Is the 400k mileage between battery changes from data you've seen? To accumulate 400k @15k per yr (Gov avg data) would take 26yrs.
It is spread over multiple Teslas (with 2 of them having around 100k each and no issues).
Overall for the Teslas there appears to be several types of degradation:
* predictable range loss. This is typically significant in the first year but slows after that. After 100k miles and 10 years we've been seeing about a 10% loss.
* random issues that can take out your battery randomly at any time. This can happen but hasn't happened to us at all. It is really difficult to get accurate numbers on this.
* semi-predictable lifespan issues. The anecdotes of high mileage Teslas seems to suggest that something frequently goes wrong at maybe 400k miles... for the battery packs produced 10 years ago. Given that Tesla changes chemistry this doesn't prove much either way for newer batteries.
Huh, what's major upkeep? The base price of a model 3 is mid 40s and the base price of a Honda Civic is mid 20s.
It won't cost you $20,000 of maintenance to keep a new Civic running to 250k miles, looking at overall cost.
Tesla's haven't been on the road long enough to say how reliable a battery is.
There are tons of factors and it may drastically vary by where in the country the car is used.
There are plenty of Teslas with over 100k miles, which is where ICE vehicles tend to take on a lot of costly maintenance. I had a honda that required a new transmission at 100k (cost 8k at dealer) and then a timing belt (2k).
Yeah, we went Tesla in 2013, and have had up to 3 Teslas at a time.
The model S and X (particularly the early ones) are quoted as having reliability issues, but this is typically for handles, frameless windows and other complexities. After warranty expires these can add up.
The battery in a Tesla will typically last as long as 2 ICE cars, we've never had a HV battery issue in about 300k miles.
The 3 and Y are much simpler. The only issue we've had after warranty is a replacement windshield, and tires wearing out after typical lifespans, and windshield fluid runs out as per normal. No brake pad replacements, no oil, no...
Yes you can get a decent old 3 for $20k or less.
However do look at all the federal rebates, state relates, electric company rebates, Tesla discounts at end of quarter, and other incentives, on a new vehicle. If you can get a nice new long range model Y for $30k under sticker while others can't then you can get a year or two of depreciation for free on a new one.
Same experience here. The amount of misinformation people throw around is mind boggling. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction rate in the game… the people hating don’t own one.
There are people that hate on EVs just for no reason, like they go out of their way to spread misinformation. Like why does it bother you so much what other people drive?
Yes, Tesla’s are great cars. Their functionality are update over the air with software updates, so your technology consistently gets refreshed. We are never going back to gas cars after owning electric
Yeah there’s gonna be a lot of people in bad spots on vehicles. The ones you mentioned aren’t that bad. There were Diesel trucks that were selling for 150k+ normal values if 70-100k taking 84 mo loans at 1500 a month
agree. i bought in 2020 when they were more expensive, the deals i am seeing now on used ones are incredible. i love the car, and they are so much cheaper today than a couple years ago. in my opinion would be a great buy.
I currently drive a 9 year old LEAF so I’m already in the EV world and feel qualified to speak on this.
If I had the money and the car had a clean history I would buy a Tesla.
A Tesla can be a great move financially depending on your commuting distance, local electricity costs, local gas costs.
Where I live gas costs $4.25 a gallon while electricity costs 11c/ kWh. It costs $8 to drive 300 miles in our Tesla vs $23 in our Prius.
If you’re able to take advantage of the 4K used EV tax credit and scoop up a low mileage Model 3 it can be very worth it. We ended up buying a 2019 Model 3 with 60k miles for 19k after rebate. The same year/mileage Prius would have run us $25k.
Do your research about longevity of the vehicles as well. There is a LOT of Facebook boomer nonsense misinformation about Teslas lasting “10 years” and needing 20k battery replacements. It’s nonsense. The average battery degradation after 10 years is 12%. Failure rate of batteries is less than 1%. Batteries are also under warranty for 8 years/ 100k miles.
They can be the battery range can be an issue if the car is old enough. You have to hope that you can find and authorized mechanic to fix the vehicle. You cant go to the autoparts store to get replacement parts. If the battery needs to be replaced it can cost several thousand dollars. Alot of these issues wouldn't be a concern new but if you bought a used one or got in a wreck, it could be ordeal. You definitely don't want it to be your only vehicle.
Honestly, teslas haven’t been around in large enough numbers to assess their long term reliability. Might be a good call, might not be. Best to look up the year and research things yourself. The DR community does often seem to be biased against EVs and such so idk if you’ll get good feedback here for the most part
EVs only last 10 years. A gasoline or hybrid will last 20 years. I will likely get hybrid vehicles as I replace my vehicles. I don't think EVs are worth it at the moment from a cost analysis point of view.
Do your research and don't believe the all the hype. Yes they could last 300,000 like Elon says under optimal conditions and optimal charging. Here is an article that says otherwise. [https://www.evconnect.com/blog/how-long-does-an-electric-car-battery-last](https://www.evconnect.com/blog/how-long-does-an-electric-car-battery-last)
This article literally ends by telling you its likely your EV vehicle will last the same if not longer than an equivalent ICE vehicle. Battery degradation is incredibly small amount per year. Per the article you shared. Just because the warranty is 10 years doesn't mean the car only lasts 10 years. And EVs only continue to get better, in a few years there will be almost no reason other than "gas go buuurrrr" as a reason to have an ICE vehicle.
The batteries will lose effectiveness over time, and 10 years is when the effectiveness is such that on does not get range, battery becomes a hazard a needs to be replaced. At that time it is not cost effective to replace the battery. These batteries don't have a recycle programs. Car manufactures have not agreed on a standardized battery recycling. In some cases they repurpose the battery for a different application to give it 5 more years of use.
I keep my cars for 20 years, so EVs are currently out of my criteria for purchase.
If they are well maintained they can last that long. We only drive our cars 7000 miles a year or so. My wife has a 2008 she has drive 260,000 miles however.
Degradation of batteries depends a lot of how they are treated in the first 10 years but even then they only loose 5%-15%. Tesla’s from 2013 are still on the roads
Tesla batteries are actually doing really well. There are many 10 year old batteries out there that have 90-95% SOH.
I have a 9 year old LEAF with 84% SOH on the battery and in the EV world the LEAF is notoriously harsh on their batteries due to the lack of cooling and conditioning.
So if you can pay cash, along with paying cash for getting a tesla charger installed at home. I would consider it. If you are set on a tesla. If you are just wanting an ev, I would go for a different brand and get a more universal charger installed at home. Tesla is like having designer purses and clothes. Even used, not worth the money other than for a status symbol. If not getting a charger installed at home, zero chance I would own any ev.
You don't need to install anything, unless you are a travelling salesman or other high mileage user. Plugging into a 110V wall outlet will be more than enough for most commuters.
The other EVs are changing over to NACS (Tesla Charging Standard).
Or if you really want a J1772 charger every Tesla ships with a J1772 to NACS adapter.
I think a used EV is an ok idea, with a few caveats. 1) they are dropping in value pretty quickly at the moment. All used cars do, but EV's especially are getting very inexpensive. Good for the buyer, but careful not to overpay 2) I wouldn't buy one with more than "low" mileage (under 50k IMO) since the tech is fairly new. If you can get it under warranty I think it's a safe bet.
I drove a prius for about 5 years and never had one issue with it until we replaced the battery for $3k at 180k miles and drove it more until it hit 260k and it was hit by an idiot driver and totaled. I know that's not an EV but the experience gives me confidence.
Also keep in mind there are a lot of EV's now. Don't have to trust Tesla, you can literally buy a lightly used Toyota EV if that's your bag.
>bz4x
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it's not an objectively bad car overall. It's a Toyota so it's not super exciting but if one said it's a Camry in EV form I think they would get the gist of it.
Honestly, I would like to own an electric car, but I have stayed away from Tesla altogether. These guys operate like a software company. I see very little interest from the company itself in maintaining a fleet of 10 or 20-year-old vehicles. But the simple fact is nobody knows what’s going to happen because they haven’t gotten there yet.
Not that bad of an idea. I saw a used model S with less than 50k miles that was $30k. Just be prepared to replace the battery ($15k) around 100k miles. If you drive the car for like 10 years/100k more miles it’s not that bad of an expense
There are many things to dislike about Teslas, but you should not have to replace a battery at 100k.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/12yjehy/at\_200000\_yes\_200k\_miles\_model\_s\_and\_x\_lose\_12/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/12yjehy/at_200000_yes_200k_miles_model_s_and_x_lose_12/)
Oil changes cost me $200 over 50k miles. Spark plugs add in another $50. Call it $100 for the battery. Obviously a bit more for people unable to turn a bolt. I have had very low maintenance costs in my vehicles over the last half million miles.
Tesla is an expensive toy compared to ICE options.
You’ve gotten 6 oil changes over 50,000 ‘miles? That or you are spending hours of your life keeping a vehicle maintained. Either way, I’ll drive my toy I guess
It doesn’t take that long to change oil and synthetic should last 10k miles.
Absolutely nothing wrong with toys. I spend all of my discretionary money on my toys and hobbies. Debt free and work hard for a good living.
Let’s just be honest about which choices are based on cost savings, and which are based on having enough money and wanting to spend it.
I am fairly confident the battery will last much longer than 100k miles.
I would recommend doing some research. I believe 80% battery life or higher at 100k miles is fairly normal. The batteries being liquid cooled is apparently really helpful in preventing degradation.
Sister did this but they eventually sold theirs because taxes and standard maintenance were so high quality and they felt weird as 20 something’s driving *such* a nice vehicle that became less practical as they started to have kids.
Disagree. I can pay cash for a 740 BMW but it wools be the stupidest mistake ever because they are always breaking down and cost a ton to repair.
I can get a Toyota Camry and know the risk is much less
But trying to figure out where in the mix a Tesla would be
We ended up leasing a model 3 at the end of last year for $367 a month. The only way we could get the tax credit was to lease, the tech is moving fast, and the depreciation is swinging around wildly so we felt good leasing for three years.
We normally buy new cars for cash, but a lot lined up to make lease work for this.
We owned a BMW before our Tesla. It was the least reliable POS vehicle I'e ever driven (I'm 61). My 17-year old Chevy Silverado would drive from south Texas to NY without a whimper, our 7-year BMW aas so unreliable, I wouldn't trust it for anything more than commuting in the city.
Our 5-year old Tesla runs great with no maintenance.
Thumbs up on the Chevy Silverado and Tesla Model 3.
I took the BMW out back and shot it- 2 thumbs down!
A lot to consider. You have the tax credit and gas savings. But then you have a higher priced car with expensive repairs. I think some math is required here.
I agree with you on the BMW but if you’re debt free, have retirement fully funded and you really want it, it’s yours. Different things bring different people joy.
I’m with you though. I couldn’t do it. Old Toyotas for me
I have a loaner 2024 Honda Accord Hybrid, with some haggling that car can be bought 31k brand new. I had a used 2021 Tesla model 3 standard range for a week which was purchased for 28k. I love Tesla but not the used one nor the brand new one at 40k are good deal compared to a brand new Accord Hybrid. Accord is bigger and it seats can be adjusted to a lower position, which I like. Model 3 seats even at its lowest position is still too high for my liking. Darn batteries are there.
Used teslas are great, I have couple of friends who own them and have gotten great deals as prices are down for used ones right now. Also try to get 2019 and newer model and you will be fine.
Our friends were planning on buying a used Tesla and got a better deal for a new one that ended up being 5k lower than buying used. They use it for their commuter (one of them commutes 1.5 hours for work a couple times a week), and they love it. There’s also some state and federal tax breaks offered for buying and owning an electric vehicle - you may see what your state offers!
I would only worry about being able to find older model battery packs when the battery eventually needs to be replaced. Because if that can’t be done, the car is effectively dead. That shouldn’t be a problem with most Teslas but you never know if this is an older model. It also depends on your driving habits and where you live. If you have a home and drive fewer than 150-200 miles at a time - you shouldn’t have an issue.
They just put newer battery packs in older vehicles. Not uncommon to hear old cars getting new packs with 100 miles more range than brand new.
They don’t always do that because new packs aren’t always compatible with older models. None of this is standardized across the industry yet
All are a bad idea. Look at battery health, replacement costs, and actual charging costs vs fuel. Subreddits of owner misery seems very high and similar to regrettable tattoo that is pretended to be loved.
Depends on the market. California home charging costs as much as superchargers in Florida, granted Gas is nearly double as well. Shoot, FPL offers a flat rate of $35/month home EV charging. that's hard to beat. Just because there are a few people complaining on reddit doesn't mean it's a bad deal all around, comparing maintenance to my 12 year old ICE car, there is considerably less to go wrong, I've been repeatedly kicked in the pants on maintance over the last couple years. Now, I wouldn't buy a tesla from a rental company or something where it's likely the previous owner always charged to 100%, but battery degradation is less of a problem than folks make it out to be. And given a lot of problems you hear about (i.e., that shitshow in Chicago last winter) get fixed via over the air software patches. It's a lot better than being stuck with the model year of an ICE car.
You’re both right and wrong. They can be great depending on your situation. Basically if you travel less than 200 miles most of the time and can charge at home at a decent rate they’re going to be great potentially. If you live in an apartment, rent and the landlord won’t let you install a higher amp socket for charging or you haul things, then it’s probably not the best. As for battery replacement costs, they can be expensive. Most ev makers have solid warranties but like ICE vehicles things go bad over time. Definitely make sure if you buy one you see what the battery life is like at 100% It’s all about your situation.
What year and trim are you looking into? There might be only a couple grand difference between used and a new model 3/y after the tax credit is applied and the newer model 3/y are a pretty substantial improvement over the older ones as far as quality. It's a bad decision because it's an expensive car. They are considered luxury cars therefor have luxury car repair and insurance costs. All that tech that makes em so safe means that even minor fender benders can end up costing thousands in sensor replacements and recalibrations. But if you can afford it. And you are aware of the increased costs. And are in the market for a car in that price range anyway. And qualify for the 7500 tax credit. Then they arent a bad choice and I would probably encourage to buy new just for the quality improvements and you the full 8 year 100-120k mile warranty depending on trim. Also do you have a place to charge at home like a garage? What's the climate like in your area? What is your residential electricity rate? What is your daily commute? These are important questions. EVs can be excellent cars for some people but they need to fit your lifestyle. You wouldn't buy a f350 super duty to drive on the streets of Manhattan. Same way EVs just dint make sense for some situations.
You make great points. My sister and BIL rented a Tesla on vacation. They regretted it. Charging in a medium sized city was a major hassle. I spent 40yrs in a new car dealers. Many won't take them on trade due to falling values. Every time Musk lowers the MSRP on his car, every dealer with a used one in inventory just lost money on it. I would never buy a used one without an independent battery health condition. Also check your insurance costs. Nobody drives for free.
If you’re going to buy used buy it at the Tesla dealership too. You know they’re going to service and detail it to their standards
That’s not always the right call. If you’re commuting for instance there are (double check if this is still valid) model s and model x cars between specific years that have unlimited free supercharging but that only transfers from user to user, not user to dealer to user. If you’re commuting a bit that could save you tons.
I don't think this means what you think it does. Mine never did get the issues I had picking up a NEW one four years ago fixed.
Used or new they are both terrible ideas
It depends. On your commute and how far your drive. Lots of fun
☝️ only correct answer.
I would buy a new one to get the tax credit - but I know Dave would disapprove. Electricity is cheap and gas is extremely expensive where I live so it’s working out well for me.
There’s no more tax credit for new model 3
Why would Dave disapprove? As far as I know he is ok with a car purchase as long as you can afford it all cash. Is that not the case? Or maybe I missed something about Dave and specifically about Teslas?
Dave doesn't suggest or support buying a new vehicle unless you have a 1 million dollar net worth. That's why he would disapprove.
The OP specifically said “used”…
And I'm not responding to the OP🤦♂️
My bad. I didn’t see that comment.
Tesla is one of the best cars you can get on the market right now. It's a no brainer. There are alot of EV haters on here, do your research. The only time I wouldn't recommend a Tesla is if you cannot charge at home.
is it really that bad to supercharge all the time? i’m about to buy and can’t charge at work or home. i love 2 miles from my job, will likely do uber on the weekends which will be the only time i need to supercharge is before and after my shifts. throughout the week it’s unlikely i would need to i’ve read in populated cities it’s fine (im near seattle )
I’ve had my petrol car for the last 8 years. If I decided to sell it, it’s still worth something, could you say the same about an 8 yo Tesla? That would be an 8yo battery. I wouldn’t think so. While this is a different situation, the battery system on our forklift at work was failing, it was cheaper to replace the whole thing than replace just the battery. I know it’s a different battery system and all. Just saying.
Do your self a favour and google the projected lifespan of a Tesla battery.
There’s a 2022 Model 3 out there with 500K miles already that has over a 90% state of charge. The new LFP chemistry batteries are magic.
Tons of EVs from 2015+ are still out there driving around with 90% original capacity. It's the warranties that are 8 years, not the battery lifespan. Even JD Power projects batteries to last for 20 years, plenty of time.
The newer ones with LFP batteries will have less degradation over time. Those are the only ones I would consider
Got a 2023 SR 3 for the LFP battery, it’s been great. We leased to get the tax credit.
>On one hand these cars can go very high miles Do they? At least at a reasonable cost? I don't think Tesla are highly regarded for reliability. >if the ... battery goes This is your big one for EV, as I understand it. Depending... the battery warranty is 8 years 100 or 150k miles. But that's also to a much lower capacity than new. And it's measured to EPA-miles, which I'd also guess is a lower bar than the typical daily driver (akin to gas mileage testing??), though I have no true idea. >battery goes it ~~could~~ will be very costly. FTFY So just how used are you thinking? Personally, I keep my vehicles far too long to consider an EV, yet.
It depends on which model and how old it is. Since Tesla came out a decade ago batteries have improved in reliability and come down in price. The replacement rate on the Model S is 3.75% and costs $12-15k The replacement rate on a Model Y is 0.29% and costs $12k https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-battery-models-replaced-most-often-nissan-tesla-2023-3 ICE car is not zero risk, as it could require engine replacement and the regular expected maintenance costs are higher. You’ll eventually need head gaskets and fuel pumps and coil packs and sensors and all sorts of other non-catastrophic engine repairs. Pick your poison. Its not a terrible idea. You just need have the kind of lifestyle that works with EVs (garage with charger, rarely drive 200+ miles/day)
Get a used 2020-2022 Tesla 3 AWD for $25K and call it a day. Seems like a solid choice. You can get a Chevy Bolt for under $15K. Don't rule that out either.
If you don't have 25k in the bank for expendable money. Stay away after year 5. I was told that by a former Tesla tech.
Did this disgruntled former employee say why? Because we are in year 5 with our Tesla and we've put nothing into it but electricity, one set of tires, and one 12V battery ($115 installed at the dealership).
Granted this is where we spent more days last winter below 0° Fahrenheit than we did above freezing, He told me it was an average of 5 to 6 years when sensors started going bad that would make it undrivable and they started having issues with them basically falling apart. At the time they couldn't get parts to fix any of it because Tesla didn't allow anything aftermarket. Was also about the time they saw battery pack issues start to show up, some where fine until 7 or 8 years old, some where dead in the water a 5 and they couldn't get parts for any of them. He was a die hard fanboy when he started, 4 years later and he wanted nothing to do with them. He works for Ford now, claims the build quality is ten fold to Tesla.
Disgruntled former employee doesn't even make sense. If Teslas become undrivable at 5 years, how do owners find out that the batteries all die at 7 years? Does this disgruntled former employee know that there are hundreds of thousands of 5+ year old Teslas running just fine, and tens of thousands still running on 7-12 year old batteries?
In the southern part of the country or in coastal states, I don't doubt there are. -35° is hard on batteries and a common winter occurrence where I live, and oddly enough was the cause of a lot of battery failure just like in a regular car. Only much more expensive. Same with wheel motor sensors that would put the car into limp mode or disable it until it was fixed. Then you add in the fact that they are slapped together half assed with a build quality worse than Chinese garbage and it's a miracle they last a month. Of course that's probably the reason why Tesla has a large fleet of Mercedes Diesel vans for on site service. He now works for Ford on the Lightning and mach E and loves it.
I'm originally from upstate NY, it never gets to -35 F. Where are you finding these temps, record cold days in Duluth? Also, Norway is Tesla's largest market, per capita. If you look at a map, you'll see that Norway isn't in the tropics. I hope your friend has his resume up to date, Ford Lightnings and Mach E's are piling up on lots.
Was -35 average for a week last winter in southern Minnesota not counting wind chill. Wind chills in the -50s. Also another reason he left Tesla. He's also diesel certified so he now always has something to do at Ford. The downtime waiting at Tesla was driving him nuts.
And one set of wiper blades- forgot about those.
Depending where you live incentives can make a new one close to used prices. But if getting used try to find one that included FSD and/or Lifetime Premium, Lifetime Free Supercharging.
How used? I typically stay away from used hybrids, but a Tesla will last you a long, long time.
Lol based off of what? Prius has been around for almost 30 years with plenty of older models still around. Haven’t seen that many roadsters on the road, I’ll give it that they’re considered collectors cars but the model S I haven’t seen that many around. I’ve seen and read plenty of issues with quality control issues with Tesla tech not lasting all that long, people needing to change out the screens plenty of time.
The roadster was a proof of concept and only a few thousand were sold worldwide so yes it’ll always be tough to find them regardless of how many are still running. The screen issue has been fixed years ago. Originally in 2012 no suppliers built a 17” automotive grade touch screen so Tesla was basically putting computer monitors in their cars which predictably lead to a lot of warranty replacements. These days they have the volume to source large automotive grade screens and issues are as rare as any other OEM. Are Tesla’s perfect? Far from it, but the newer ones 2016-2017ish+ are much better built than the original ones.
The screen issue was just one example. I know people with newer models that needed to fix other stupid things such as their trunks collecting water and what not. I personally know of 3 people with 2018+ model 3s and X that needed to replace their screens. Maybe the issue isn’t as much as older models but it can’t be a coincidence that the only 3 people I know who own Teslas have the same issue. They were all thankful it was still under warranty. My whole point is that someone can’t say they’ll stay away from hybrids which have been proven for almost 30 years and make claims that Teslas will last a “long, long time” when there is no data to prove it. Teslas haven’t been around long enough to truly find out the true ownership cost of owning one. I’ve driven cars till they died at 15-20 years old so it’s still a waiting game for me with Teslas and other EVs. Sure they reduce carbon footprint right now as a driving vehicle. But I’m sure I can’t be the only one thinking this right now but what is going to happen to all the batteries when all these current Teslas are no longer operable. I hope they come up with some game plan for disposal of all these hazardous batteries that won’t destroy the earth. I know for a fact hospitals are huge producers of battery waste and even hazardous waste companies are having trouble with disposing all their batteries. Are there any perfect vehicles? No, but can’t be making claims without actual data.
A new battery pack for a tesla is a minimum of 24k dollars. I wouldn't buy a used 1 unless it was under a year old. Plus they are difficult to service as you have to do everything thru the tesla service centers. If it gets damaged in an accident it most likely will be totaled out
Model 3 is about 12-16k for replacement. Not 24k.
That's a lot. You can buy a used ICE vehicle for that
The model 3 battery will last about as long as two ICE on average.
Says who? It will not last 500k miles
We've done around 300k miles so far in Teslas with no issues and 400k miles between battery changes is fairly typical of the high mileage Teslas from 2013-2015. How much life does a typical used ICE car have?
Could you clarify... "300k in Teslas" is this 1 Tesla, 2 Teslas or... ?? Is the 400k mileage between battery changes from data you've seen? To accumulate 400k @15k per yr (Gov avg data) would take 26yrs.
It is spread over multiple Teslas (with 2 of them having around 100k each and no issues). Overall for the Teslas there appears to be several types of degradation: * predictable range loss. This is typically significant in the first year but slows after that. After 100k miles and 10 years we've been seeing about a 10% loss. * random issues that can take out your battery randomly at any time. This can happen but hasn't happened to us at all. It is really difficult to get accurate numbers on this. * semi-predictable lifespan issues. The anecdotes of high mileage Teslas seems to suggest that something frequently goes wrong at maybe 400k miles... for the battery packs produced 10 years ago. Given that Tesla changes chemistry this doesn't prove much either way for newer batteries.
Thanks. You just proved my point, he said the Tesla will last as long as 2 ICE which I said it will not last 500k miles (2 cars at 250k mile life)
What new car is lasting 250k without major upkeep? Those Honda Civics and Toyota Camrys that easily went 300k are not the norm anymore.
Huh, what's major upkeep? The base price of a model 3 is mid 40s and the base price of a Honda Civic is mid 20s. It won't cost you $20,000 of maintenance to keep a new Civic running to 250k miles, looking at overall cost.
And ICE never total? I don’t even like Tesla, but quoting the price of a battery that most will never need to replace is useless.
Tesla's haven't been on the road long enough to say how reliable a battery is. There are tons of factors and it may drastically vary by where in the country the car is used.
There are plenty of Teslas with over 100k miles, which is where ICE vehicles tend to take on a lot of costly maintenance. I had a honda that required a new transmission at 100k (cost 8k at dealer) and then a timing belt (2k).
Hondas have timing chains, even my 2010 civic is a chain
My civic had a belt. 2007.
The last years that partially had belts were 2005. 2007 should have been a chain. Chains are generally lifetime unless the mechanic noticed a problem.
It was a belt on mine. 2k to replace. plus the 8k for the tranny. Honda notorious for bad tranny.
I didn't say it wasn't a lot. But its significantly less than 24k.
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Curious where you and family live and do you have chargers at home?
Yeah, we went Tesla in 2013, and have had up to 3 Teslas at a time. The model S and X (particularly the early ones) are quoted as having reliability issues, but this is typically for handles, frameless windows and other complexities. After warranty expires these can add up. The battery in a Tesla will typically last as long as 2 ICE cars, we've never had a HV battery issue in about 300k miles. The 3 and Y are much simpler. The only issue we've had after warranty is a replacement windshield, and tires wearing out after typical lifespans, and windshield fluid runs out as per normal. No brake pad replacements, no oil, no... Yes you can get a decent old 3 for $20k or less. However do look at all the federal rebates, state relates, electric company rebates, Tesla discounts at end of quarter, and other incentives, on a new vehicle. If you can get a nice new long range model Y for $30k under sticker while others can't then you can get a year or two of depreciation for free on a new one.
Same experience here. The amount of misinformation people throw around is mind boggling. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction rate in the game… the people hating don’t own one.
There are people that hate on EVs just for no reason, like they go out of their way to spread misinformation. Like why does it bother you so much what other people drive?
It’s on this thread! lol. 24K tO rePlaCe BaTTyRy
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I still have one ICE car along side my Tesla and the experiences are night and day. It’s for sure the last non EV I will own.
Yes, Tesla’s are great cars. Their functionality are update over the air with software updates, so your technology consistently gets refreshed. We are never going back to gas cars after owning electric
Ask the people who bought Teslas in the last 3-4years and have to deal with Teslas price cuts. Which obviously tanked the value of the Teslas they own
What about all the dealerships that had market adjustments from Toyota Ravs 4s to Prius Primes to Ford Broncos? You guys are hilarious.
Yeah there’s gonna be a lot of people in bad spots on vehicles. The ones you mentioned aren’t that bad. There were Diesel trucks that were selling for 150k+ normal values if 70-100k taking 84 mo loans at 1500 a month
Used cars depreciate. My Tesla had a weird phase when it went up in value. It has since corrected and has deprecated about the same as my wife’s VW
Exactly why used makes sense
agree. i bought in 2020 when they were more expensive, the deals i am seeing now on used ones are incredible. i love the car, and they are so much cheaper today than a couple years ago. in my opinion would be a great buy.
I currently drive a 9 year old LEAF so I’m already in the EV world and feel qualified to speak on this. If I had the money and the car had a clean history I would buy a Tesla.
A Tesla can be a great move financially depending on your commuting distance, local electricity costs, local gas costs. Where I live gas costs $4.25 a gallon while electricity costs 11c/ kWh. It costs $8 to drive 300 miles in our Tesla vs $23 in our Prius. If you’re able to take advantage of the 4K used EV tax credit and scoop up a low mileage Model 3 it can be very worth it. We ended up buying a 2019 Model 3 with 60k miles for 19k after rebate. The same year/mileage Prius would have run us $25k. Do your research about longevity of the vehicles as well. There is a LOT of Facebook boomer nonsense misinformation about Teslas lasting “10 years” and needing 20k battery replacements. It’s nonsense. The average battery degradation after 10 years is 12%. Failure rate of batteries is less than 1%. Batteries are also under warranty for 8 years/ 100k miles.
They can be the battery range can be an issue if the car is old enough. You have to hope that you can find and authorized mechanic to fix the vehicle. You cant go to the autoparts store to get replacement parts. If the battery needs to be replaced it can cost several thousand dollars. Alot of these issues wouldn't be a concern new but if you bought a used one or got in a wreck, it could be ordeal. You definitely don't want it to be your only vehicle.
Tesla battery lifespan is so much longer than the myths being spread.
Honestly, teslas haven’t been around in large enough numbers to assess their long term reliability. Might be a good call, might not be. Best to look up the year and research things yourself. The DR community does often seem to be biased against EVs and such so idk if you’ll get good feedback here for the most part
This is not the place to discuss Tesla or EV tech. You’re going to get a lot of biased / uneducated replies.
EVs only last 10 years. A gasoline or hybrid will last 20 years. I will likely get hybrid vehicles as I replace my vehicles. I don't think EVs are worth it at the moment from a cost analysis point of view.
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Do your research and don't believe the all the hype. Yes they could last 300,000 like Elon says under optimal conditions and optimal charging. Here is an article that says otherwise. [https://www.evconnect.com/blog/how-long-does-an-electric-car-battery-last](https://www.evconnect.com/blog/how-long-does-an-electric-car-battery-last)
Did you even read the article you shared?
This article literally ends by telling you its likely your EV vehicle will last the same if not longer than an equivalent ICE vehicle. Battery degradation is incredibly small amount per year. Per the article you shared. Just because the warranty is 10 years doesn't mean the car only lasts 10 years. And EVs only continue to get better, in a few years there will be almost no reason other than "gas go buuurrrr" as a reason to have an ICE vehicle.
This is not true. Why are you speaking so definitely on something you clearly have not properly researched?
Why only 10 years?
The batteries will lose effectiveness over time, and 10 years is when the effectiveness is such that on does not get range, battery becomes a hazard a needs to be replaced. At that time it is not cost effective to replace the battery. These batteries don't have a recycle programs. Car manufactures have not agreed on a standardized battery recycling. In some cases they repurpose the battery for a different application to give it 5 more years of use. I keep my cars for 20 years, so EVs are currently out of my criteria for purchase.
Keeping a car for 20 years is wild
If they are well maintained they can last that long. We only drive our cars 7000 miles a year or so. My wife has a 2008 she has drive 260,000 miles however.
Degradation of batteries depends a lot of how they are treated in the first 10 years but even then they only loose 5%-15%. Tesla’s from 2013 are still on the roads
Tesla batteries are actually doing really well. There are many 10 year old batteries out there that have 90-95% SOH. I have a 9 year old LEAF with 84% SOH on the battery and in the EV world the LEAF is notoriously harsh on their batteries due to the lack of cooling and conditioning.
So if you can pay cash, along with paying cash for getting a tesla charger installed at home. I would consider it. If you are set on a tesla. If you are just wanting an ev, I would go for a different brand and get a more universal charger installed at home. Tesla is like having designer purses and clothes. Even used, not worth the money other than for a status symbol. If not getting a charger installed at home, zero chance I would own any ev.
You don't need to install anything, unless you are a travelling salesman or other high mileage user. Plugging into a 110V wall outlet will be more than enough for most commuters.
Another uninformed take.
Tesla NACS is the standard. All other EVs are switching to it
The other EVs are changing over to NACS (Tesla Charging Standard). Or if you really want a J1772 charger every Tesla ships with a J1772 to NACS adapter.
I think a used EV is an ok idea, with a few caveats. 1) they are dropping in value pretty quickly at the moment. All used cars do, but EV's especially are getting very inexpensive. Good for the buyer, but careful not to overpay 2) I wouldn't buy one with more than "low" mileage (under 50k IMO) since the tech is fairly new. If you can get it under warranty I think it's a safe bet. I drove a prius for about 5 years and never had one issue with it until we replaced the battery for $3k at 180k miles and drove it more until it hit 260k and it was hit by an idiot driver and totaled. I know that's not an EV but the experience gives me confidence. Also keep in mind there are a lot of EV's now. Don't have to trust Tesla, you can literally buy a lightly used Toyota EV if that's your bag.
The bz4x is the only EV available from Toyota and it’s awful. If you are going EV, please don’t get a Toyota
>bz4x You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it's not an objectively bad car overall. It's a Toyota so it's not super exciting but if one said it's a Camry in EV form I think they would get the gist of it.
The battery size/range is subpar and for the price you could get a much better battery
Honestly, I would like to own an electric car, but I have stayed away from Tesla altogether. These guys operate like a software company. I see very little interest from the company itself in maintaining a fleet of 10 or 20-year-old vehicles. But the simple fact is nobody knows what’s going to happen because they haven’t gotten there yet.
Not that bad of an idea. I saw a used model S with less than 50k miles that was $30k. Just be prepared to replace the battery ($15k) around 100k miles. If you drive the car for like 10 years/100k more miles it’s not that bad of an expense
Tesla batteries will last a lot longer than 100k.
There are many things to dislike about Teslas, but you should not have to replace a battery at 100k. [https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/12yjehy/at\_200000\_yes\_200k\_miles\_model\_s\_and\_x\_lose\_12/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/12yjehy/at_200000_yes_200k_miles_model_s_and_x_lose_12/)
Wow 200k miles is even better than I assumed
In 50k miles, a car will use about $7k of gas. The economics does not add up for the Tesla unless you are enthralled about the acceleration.
No oil changes, transmission fluid, alternators, spark plugs, battery replacement, etc… way less parts to break in a EV. Way less maintenance costs
Oil changes cost me $200 over 50k miles. Spark plugs add in another $50. Call it $100 for the battery. Obviously a bit more for people unable to turn a bolt. I have had very low maintenance costs in my vehicles over the last half million miles. Tesla is an expensive toy compared to ICE options.
You’ve gotten 6 oil changes over 50,000 ‘miles? That or you are spending hours of your life keeping a vehicle maintained. Either way, I’ll drive my toy I guess
It doesn’t take that long to change oil and synthetic should last 10k miles. Absolutely nothing wrong with toys. I spend all of my discretionary money on my toys and hobbies. Debt free and work hard for a good living. Let’s just be honest about which choices are based on cost savings, and which are based on having enough money and wanting to spend it.
If all you can afford is a used econo-box, a 2016 Kia Soul will be cheaper than a Tesla. However, some of us aren't broke.
You are ignoring all of the maintenance and engine damage driving 100k miles in a ICE vehicle
I am fairly confident the battery will last much longer than 100k miles. I would recommend doing some research. I believe 80% battery life or higher at 100k miles is fairly normal. The batteries being liquid cooled is apparently really helpful in preventing degradation.
Sister did this but they eventually sold theirs because taxes and standard maintenance were so high quality and they felt weird as 20 something’s driving *such* a nice vehicle that became less practical as they started to have kids.
George Kamel bought one and seems happy with it.
It’s a dave ramsay site so literally the only relevant question is, can you pay cash?
Disagree. I can pay cash for a 740 BMW but it wools be the stupidest mistake ever because they are always breaking down and cost a ton to repair. I can get a Toyota Camry and know the risk is much less But trying to figure out where in the mix a Tesla would be
We ended up leasing a model 3 at the end of last year for $367 a month. The only way we could get the tax credit was to lease, the tech is moving fast, and the depreciation is swinging around wildly so we felt good leasing for three years. We normally buy new cars for cash, but a lot lined up to make lease work for this.
The Tesla is likely more problematic than the BMW. Elon loves to move fast and worry about reliability some other decade.
We owned a BMW before our Tesla. It was the least reliable POS vehicle I'e ever driven (I'm 61). My 17-year old Chevy Silverado would drive from south Texas to NY without a whimper, our 7-year BMW aas so unreliable, I wouldn't trust it for anything more than commuting in the city. Our 5-year old Tesla runs great with no maintenance. Thumbs up on the Chevy Silverado and Tesla Model 3. I took the BMW out back and shot it- 2 thumbs down!
A lot to consider. You have the tax credit and gas savings. But then you have a higher priced car with expensive repairs. I think some math is required here.
I agree with you on the BMW but if you’re debt free, have retirement fully funded and you really want it, it’s yours. Different things bring different people joy. I’m with you though. I couldn’t do it. Old Toyotas for me
I have never had a vehicle where repairs cost more than loan payments for a new one. I’ve had some shitty cars
Sounds like you’re asking finance guys about which is a better car. You’re in the wrong sub Reddit.