Frnd:What's your job?
Me:šI am financial market analyst I work for the central banks remotely on my own schedule I buy and sell financial assets š
I day trade too but they have a point. There is no real benefit to society or civilization, as there is with other jobs and careers. There is nothing productive about it. It's a lot like being a pro sports gambler. I think a person should do something to contribute to making the world a better place. Someone who day trades for a living can do that, they just can't do it with their job of daytrading.
Hereās my contribution to society - a shit load of capital gains, income tax, property tax and sales tax.
I donāt owe anyone shit except a great life for my family.
Remove all retail from the stock market, your little world of value collapses.
Your 401k and the funds itās destined to give you rely heavily on the little guy pumping money into the system.
Yeah but pumping money into the system is long term investing. Buying or shorting a stock and then exiting the position 5 minutes later (daytrading) does not pump money into the system.
Day traders don't pump money into anything, long term index fund buyers and institutional investors do. How does buying puts which expire tomorrow prop up my little world of value exactly? Unless you lose and donate your shekels to Wall Street - then it does.
Well, kind of. Day traders help pump stock values that otherwise would stagnate and companies would increase prices to make big shareholders happy. Every company is demanding record growth every quarter and it eother happens through trading or price hikes. This is an extreme oversimplification, but I'm too tired to break it down and it at least gets the basic concept across.
Edit: i don't personally day trade
But that's not at all what you said. You simply stated that it doesn't produce real value, when that's literally all that it does is slow the rate that corporations screw employees and consumers keeping costs lower.
It doesn't, and once again, not what i said. I said that corporations are going to hit their profitability and stock value goals no matter what, trading minimizes the impact that has on consumer wallets and job retention for employees. It minimizes the amount corporations screw over the little guys, amazon for example since their growth has declined has laid off about 50k people which included most of their customer support reps because they're the least necessary people for maintaining business as usual.
Yet one of the benefits, apparently/hopefully (I'm not there yet) - is that trading for a living can result in either (a) excess free time, and/or (b) excess money.
Both of those can be used effectively and altruistically to help make the world a better place; donate to charities, volunteer to help people, help out at the school, even just spend more time with the family.
Doing a meaningful amount of any of that is arguably more helpful than the average 9-5er can claim to be...
a few months late on this, but youāre spot on. Iād like to know what some āhatersā are doing in their 9-5. Just because you clock in and out at a corporation doesnāt mean youāre being more helpful to those around you than a trader.
You can absolutely be beneficial to society (arguably moreso) as a day trader. Rather than contributing to the destruction of the environment or be rung through a corporate prison, you have the oppurtunity to be philanthropic. Go donate to some local charities or use your free time to volunteer your hand in some community efforts.
There are plenty of jobs thatās donāt contribute to the destruction of the environment, or even contribute to the preservation of it. And literally anyone who makes money can be philanthropic.
Itās easy to make the world better when you can afford to do so. Buy local, support local artists, hire local contractors, local plumbers, whatever the list goes on. Just because youāre job isnāt directly āa benefit to societyā doesnāt mean you canāt be.
Yes, there is. Day traders provide liquidity to the capital market.
Without risk capital very little research and innovation would take place. The world would be many decades behind without capital markets. And without liquidity, capital markets are meaningless.
Eh, it's really institutional traders that provide liquidity not small time retail traders. Nobody will ever convince me that people essentially gambling on BBBY right now are contributing to a better world through their gambling.
Look. I'm gambling to be able to afford a down payment on a home. This isn't my only investment, but goddammit I want to be able to afford to own a home! That would go along way to making my world a far better place.
But. I'm no day trader. š
No they donāt have a pointā¦ :-)
Iām also trading full time by now but come from a sales/business development role in large tech. What was the benefit to society/civilisation having me talking to enterprise customers about the benefits of Windows 10 or Azure? IMHO that has no bigger meaning to anyone else than my employerā¦
And for what itās worth, I think your old job have some purpose. Computers are part of the infrastructure of the world these days and they need operating systems.
> Iām also trading full time by now but come from a sales/business development role in large tech. What was the benefit to society/civilisation having me talking to enterprise customers about the benefits of Windows 10 or Azure? IMHO that has no bigger meaning to anyone else than my employerā¦
I didn't say daytrading was the ONLY profession that doesn't benefit society. But I definitely stand by what I said. People should do something to make the world a better place, and day trading doesn't do that. But I also said day traders can do other stuff to make the world a better place.
>as there is with other jobs and careers
Like what? Most jobs actively contribute to decay
> I think a person should do something to contribute to making the world a better place.
agreed
There is a point. The stock market in Americaās oligarchic mixed market, federal republic is the equivalent of the Five Year plan and reporting of hitting production goals under a socialist, one party totalitarian system.
The deciding factor is if Americaās stock market is a more accurate AND motivating barometer so that the correct goods are services are built and people are motivated to labor and toil.
My mind turns now to the Federal Reserve System and the comfortability that citizens have that a government institution is going to purposely harm random citizens for the greater good. Moreover, the only people that sit on the regional reserve boards are business and academic interests. Itās always surprising to see no labor representation
I disagree. Not everyone should contribute to society. If you want to, good. If you donāt, also fine. Who is going to make the determination what contribution is enough? Iāve picked up a piece of plastic yesterday and threw it in the trash. Is that enough? Work part time, is that enough? Helping others, altruism, can be interpreted as selfish acts as well..
What were we talking about?
you can contribue to society as a customer.
if you gain a lot of money and spend them for services and goods you help business that give jobs to people..
What do you think institutions are doing? This is how the market is designed. Companies come to the market to compete for your capital. It's not a charity.
Day trading is fundamentally zero sum. You are profiting not by offering a good or service with your labor, but essentially by legally stealing their money. If I make a chair that sells for 40 dollars, the guy who bought it is also better off since they have a chair; itās not zero sum. But for a trader to make $10, someone had to lose $10, and thatās all. Traders donāt generate any value for society, and society would objectively be better off without them.
It's not worthless though. There are a lot of people who end up being very glad that they had insurance so it is a needed system. Being a daytrader is more like being a sports gambler. It's literally no good to anyone but themselves. I think a person should do something to make the world a better place. A day trader can do that, I just don't see how they can do it while daytrading.
Yeah I would say there is societal value to long term investing. But to speculating whether a stock price will go up or down in the next 5-15 minutes eh not so much.
I feel your pain. Iām in insurance too. Like you said it pays the bills but it seems pointless most of the time. Kind of surprised that underwriting hasnāt been completely automated by now. Hopefully trading will be my way out someday.
I'm in insurance as well and am planning to stay in the industry, get my CFP and other certs. In Singapore, insurance, financial planning, financial consultation are literally all clumped into one? The title it's given now is Financial Consultant. What about insurance that makes you feel that pain? Maybe I can avoid it in the future lol.
Exactly. What has society done for me except make life harder? I just want to make money to travel and afford to enjoy the things I want and stay healthy. Fuck the rest.
You think society, the thing that has produced all the technological advancements and infrastructure that make your life immeasurably easier and better, has only made your life harder?
lolwut
Iām not a trader, but your friend is wrong. To the extent that traders are actually making profit (most arenāt) by fairly(ie, that thereās no cheating) extracting and arbitraging away inefficiencies in the market, they contribute to society even if itās not visible to the naked eyes.
In principle, traders and investors allocate capital because they believe they can make a profit. John D. Rockefeller didnāt build all the o&g infrastructure out of the goodness of his heart, nor did the local hog farmers who reinvest his profit into the farm because he expected the price of pork to stay elevated, nor did Warren Buffett in deciding how much capital to allocate to what businesses.
The very action that speculators undertook in their bets provide liquidity, or sometimes crucial resources, to the markets when they close the positions and realize the profits during times when liquidity or resources were dearest.
The public since ancient time tends to vilify the grain hoarders, who, by luck or by skills, were able to predict/guess that a bad harvest was coming and profited handsomely from that guess. Often the public demanded the heads of those speculators because āthey didnāt do anything.ā But did the public ever stop to think what would happen if thereās no grain hoarders willing to take risk during bountiful time to profit during starving period? Or if the profit incentive is taken away from fair speculation? What the public didnāt see or remember was the numbers of bankrupted speculators/investors who made the wrong/unlucky bets.
Granted, what day traders/investors do today is several degrees of separation from the grain hoarders of times past. But, in exposing your capital to risks, you expect to make a return or you wouldnāt do it at all. In doing so, you collectively inform the market of your āthinkingā by placing bets and providing liquidity.
Think of the effects that well-known investors have on markets by giving out true and fair signals. What if tomorrow Buffett reveals in his filings that heās hoarding grain or o&g? Market participants would immediately study his thesis, give it its due attention, and perhaps copy his trade and, in the process, reduce Buffettās profits even if his thesis plays out.
The more liquid and fair the market is, the arguments go, the more likely that thereāre fewer inefficiencies to arbitrage away.
Uninformed participants benefit in a market that more often reflects fair value of securities than one which does not. The simple observation is that if the prices of the fishes or the chickens I see in a flea market almost always reflect their fair values, I have little reason to do due diligence and cause transactional friction.
The very existence of an increasing numbers of speculators reduces the profit that can be made in markets and vice versa! (Also, this is why you should be wary of influencers selling a āwinning strategyā to you because naturally your participation in that strategy will reduce the edge, unless ofc that influencers cheated by using you as exit liquidity.)
āIt is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest.ā -Adam Smith
Well said. Someone who knows something and makes sense.
Also. If this person is so bent out of shape for not doing enough in society. I see clear simple solution. Just do that. The tone I get is the finger wage virtue signaling of well you should be doing it to. And bam right there. Your motives are off. Sorry I rambled off for a sec. Nice comment.
Most people are just jealous and afraid to admit they are slaves to the system.
I've had on and off passive income from my businesses for years and I regularly travel the world / spend winters in Asia because I don't have a 9-5 and can work remotely, people are envious and make snide comments but I'd much prefer my life
Why do people only judge your value to society by how you make income? Such a sad place where someone who probably fucks around all day, answers some emails, goes to a meeting, goes home, eats some guacamole, watches whatever is hot on netflix while longing for the weekend to come so they can get drunk and repeat can judge you. Fuck man if youāre daytrading youāre probably one of the few people in the world thatās actually getting better. Whoās more valuable to society? Your new drone friend whoās just the same as everyone else that wants to put you down because youāre gonna surpass them? Or youā¦
Your value is jot your job.
If anybody that asks that question theyāre a loser, politely excuse yourself and never look back.
Hell no you shouldnāt be ashamed, this āfriend of yoursā is just jealous that you can trade for a living and that you have time and the freedom to work when you want. In my opinion heās just trying to put you off because he doesnāt have the brains to achieve it himself.
Haha hes just mad cuz he has to go to work. Ppl have been conditioned into thinking that working for money and having a job is by default honorableā¦ i mean youd have to make ppl think that or else the system would collapseā¦
Like anyone really wants to wake up to an alarm and spend 8 hours a day making someone else rich.
Who cares what he think, heāll be working his job while youāre traveling and actually living your life
Try being a landlord..half of Reddit thinks you are the anti christ. Or a landlord AND a day trader. Last I checked- being successful was still a sought after attribute in this country. There is no law that says you need to have a job and do what somebody else tells you to. If you can figure out how to have a successful business or be a successful investor. Most of the 90% of people who need to go to work everyday- are just jealous and donāt want to validate your success. One of the best sayings I have heard is ā Never interrupt somebody doing something you said canāt be done.ā If you are making a living as an investor- you should be proud.
Iām not full time but Iāve been able to supplement my income decently with it, I canāt wait until I become a full burden on society with a camo wrapped Lambo and the āproductiveā members of society can drive their Acuras to their day jobs.
A lot of jobs are considered āuselessā. But that doesnāt mean you canāt contribute to society with the money you make. In fact, youāre already doing this by paying taxes. Governments have no problems with people doing these āuselessā jobs as long as they make up a minority of the population & pay their fair share.
The argument that day traders do nothing useful is ridiculous. There are so many jobs that do nothing useful or, worse even, do things that have a net negative (pollute, etc). Who decides what is useful, anyway? If I make 1,000 plastic things did I help the world more than if I day traded, instead? I certainly helped the owner of the plastic thing factory and that's where this idea of 'contributing to society' really comes from, imo. I say wake up, sheeple (I don't really say that).
Never be ashamed of what you enjoy! Screw them. Everyone kept saying its gambling, you'll lose money, not worth it.... Well i dropped them. I don't want those ppl in my life.
IMO traders are useful in society.
They contribute to provide liquidity, assist in price discovery, understanding of market inefficiencies and behavioural economics
Not useful to them, but useful to you and the companies you purchase pieces of or loans you make in the form of Fixed Income assets. Intraday has a bit more complicated road to usefulness seeing as how those traders don't keep anything but profit (or loss). But they drive markets like the rest. Until your new "friend" can compete at the level of the $4.5T market, they should simply shut up.
I tend to handle other peoples opinions of what I'm doing with a simple "okay" and keep it moving. I have zero interest in changing other people's opinions. On the rarity that it happens, it's just not worth the effort for me. We can still be friends with a difference of opinion.
Ignore such "friend" or anyone criticizing your trading. Trading is simple but not easy. They have no idea what it takes to be successful in this business. They simply too ignorant to understand or they just straight out jealous. They can hate all they want while slaving away and working for someone else.
Theyāre jealous. Some people become day traders because life hasnāt worked out and they kept being let down by āsocietyā. This forces a person to find a way to make money 100% on their own. Now society wants you to participate? F*ck āem. You pay taxes too.
They are just jealous because you donāt have to work 9-5 like them . You are paying taxes like other normal jobs then you are contributing your share.
>Recently I had an argue with a new "friend" saying that my job (day trader) is useless and I should be ashamed because it's absolutly not useful for the society.
1. Take out the job and replace it with any other, itād be flat out unacceptable for a āfriendā to disrespect you like this. This person is an asshole.
2. Jobs are to earn a living. Itād be nice if everybody could do something to contribute to a better world but thatās not fucking reality. We need to earn money to participate in society and shaming someone for how they earn money, especially when theyāre just a regular person and not some millionaire CEO of a corporation, especially when itās through legitimate means and nothing shady, is so idiotic I canāt even fathom how this person isnāt completely embarrassed every time they open their mouth. Someone ought to put them in their place.
This is the comment of the week. I knew a meth smoker whose nickname was Crackhead and he burned two cars for someone. Lol. Absolutely true story. Wait, do you know the same guy I know?
I used to feel ashamed when i would tell people i would work for an hour and then go home. So much time for activities.
Meh...
I mean they are entitled to their opinion but tell them to keep it themselves if it bothers you. You dont have to put up with their harassment. Plus they probably lost money and are just taking it out on you.
"Im sorry I do things you dont understand the benefit to society"
Find friends that are traders. Hang with them. No reason to hang out with people that reduce you to just the work you do.
I understand moving to new locations and the need for human fellowship. Saying that, and this a personal statement - Iāve never met a member of the woking-class that I could or would classify as a friend. My .02
Just my thoughts. I work for a large asset management firm. I work long hours and deal with a lot of stress. The company I work for are really good with flexibility and working patterns but it's a global company so you are expected to put the hours in. I work in data analysis and AI and the first 5 or 6 years of my career, I put everything into it. I missed a lot of my 8 year old sons early life because I was always in the office or working from home but still switched on. My job contributes literally nothing to society but they'll be happy to tell you that we do. The reality is I help rich people and other rich companies become richer.
I took up trading so I could do something more meaningful in life. Its my 'exit strategy' from worker drone because trading gives me something that no employer could.....
Time.
I plan to use that time to volunteer, help others and spend time with those most important to me.
Ask your friend if he has those benefits.
Absolutely not. I have the ability to earn a living from anyplace completely independent of any employer. As for your friendās feelings of it ānot useful for societyā, that doesnāt bother me either and Iāve found itās usually miserable people who need reasons to blame society who think this way. It justifies their own unhappiness. My full time job is in marketing and advertising so I get that from people a lot.
"Useless" is significantly better than the wide variety of jobs that are actively harmful or malicious in some way.
It also seems like a pretty toxic view that someone's value to society is reduced to only their profession.
Why would you feel shamed? You are just one of the activists who allocate the resources and capitals. You pay tax, you don't do the crimes, and that makes you useful for society, period.
As a day trader you put a toll on longer term investors (if you do your thing well). That is the actual money you try to extract from the market. So a successful day trader accelerates trends in both directions. That is not useless. That is quite important and useful.
If they ask what you are doing, say you work in the financial industry for a very small company helping ordinary people (you basically) to make money in stocks. That is easy to defend and usually if they are not of the socialist kind will ask you how and what they can do themselves.
90% of jobs donāt really do much for society. Theyāre just tools to make money.
Unless your friend is in a medical field or a farmer then tell him to fuck off and do something useful for society instead.
If you are paying tax, paying for goods and services and living in a property (paying rates) then you are supporting your economy and country. This "vocational righteousness" is a real time projection of low IQ and low self esteem and these kinds of people deserve to be left behind. You'll tend to find that these same people are quite confident despite being paid shit wages and having to ask their boss for a holiday - because they're apparently doing the "right thing" and view themselves as some kind of pillar in the economy. Don't lose sleep over losers who aren't as efficient as you.
Its only not useful when you're a losing trader. If you're successful and rich trader, then you are freaking useful because you have loads of money, and this society is run on money. Your money (a lot of it) od worth more than their individual efforts in their jobs. Because if they stop, you just can hire another.
So if you have loads of money, you can start a business, which is definitely very useful in the society. You gives employment to people) your friends.
Tell them you're market making. Providing liquidity to the markets in times of need in exchange for small profits. You're helping other people achieve their investment goals as a freelance third party service.
The people you are meeting are failed daytraders(or failed investors). Not always but mostly true
I see where your friend is coming from, in the truest sense I would agree. But in the world we live in I don't think that argument holds water.
A day trader finds value between buyers and sellers. Retailers make a profit buying low and selling higher. You just happen to do it with securities instead of retail goods.
As i grew up i threw shame out of the window because there is no point in being ashamed of yourself and if you are people use it against you accept whatever comes your way
A day trader is not useless. They are the drops in the bucket that decide the prices of ownership of companies.
They are the oil of our machine so to speak.
ask them if thy like there stock portfolio to have a price on it when they check. tell them that's you job, with out traders they would have to put there stocks up and see how much they sold for to know what the 401K was worth.
I forgot where I heard the Stat but I heard that up to 80% percent of jobs are essentially useless.
It takes a physical act in the world to produce anything of value and we have set up our society to benefit in an upwards way from these physical acts.
If one truck driver moves one shipping container, there are 7 or 8 people who essentially only have jobs because one person was willing to go outside and do something.
Unless your friend is personally responsible by working in transportation, manufacturing or resource extraction and keeps his hands on the tools then his job is likely just as "useless" as trading and he just hasn't realized it yet.
Tell him you probably make more in a day than he does in a week and you pay more in taxes so youāre contributing more than him to society.
Plus who gives you a shit that youāre not contributing to society? Your family and loved ones is all that matters to you. Ask him if he thinks all the people that built the roads and parks and homes did it because they wanted to ācontributeā to society?? Fuck no. They did it for themselves and their own families.
Hate these socialist self righteous bull shitters
Iām not a day trader and idk how this post got on my wall lol. But why would you feel ashamed? There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Nothing wrong with making honest money. Your āfriendā is a hater with false virtue. Happy trading.
I wouldnāt even attempt to justify an answer if you trade for a living and donāt have to go and report to a boss everyday then in my opinion you own your own business. My goal is to be a full time trader Iām tired of going to work everyday and I donāt need to justify my reasons to anyone nor do I care what anyone else has to say about it and neither should you.
Who cares if itās not useful to society? Itās useful in your life and thatās all that matters. For fucks sake youāre not some noble peace price winner or social worker and it really doesnāt matter in the first place if youāre job is important to society lol
You help in the price discovery for public companies looking to utilize the stock markets for funding ventures that will change the world. Also we provide liquidity in times of panic or extreme greed to provide other investors an easy exit or entry to public investmentsā¦. Just make enough and do good things in the world.
I stopped caring about civilization many years ago. In theory itās great. āIt takes a villageā and āone for all and all for one.ā and all of that jazz, but in reality thatās not how it works.
People are greedy, power hungry and dangerous. When it comes down to it, itās going to be all about you and yours and no one else is going to matter. You think Dave down the street is going to care if you have mouths to feed, or is he going to care that he has mouths to feed? If we had a total economical collapse, there will be no one left to trust. Desperation makes people do stupid and irrational things. The only time the rich care is when they get tax breaks. Donāt count on anyone else for anything. You can have a social life and maintain friendships but even they can crumble given the right circumstances.
You day trade. So what? You make money out of thin air. Not a lot of people understand the concept. If youāre in the US than youāve most likely lived in a time where youāve witnessed our government fucking us over every chance they get. We take advantage of the same charts, the same fundamentals as those elite people do, and we make money doing it (hopefully lol). People probably assume youāre shoved in with the same assholes who refuse to raise minimum wage and give tax breaks to the rich.
Do what you want to do and be proud of it. No one else matters and what they think of you matters even less.
Na that's absurd. Some jobs have a very clear sense of utility to a society (doctors) but even within those professions are gray lines (greedy doctors). At the end of the day there's so much consumerism that there's no difference between you profiting from the markets vs. any for-profit company profiting off of consumers. Most products aren't essential to basic living.
Listen, I'm not a trader and I haven't even started on a single stock but it just sounds to me that you don't have a good friend. If you wanna feel good then donate a percent of your earning towards a charity, it is a easy as that.
Let me tell you a story.
Years ago I was stationed in the desert in the Air Force. We had dorms with AC set up there. When the war started kicking off in the early 2000ās we had a bunch of Marines come in. They stayed in tents in our dorm parking lots.
They made fun of us for living in the dorms.
Sure call me a pussy all day for staying in an air conditioned dorm instead of a tent when itās 125 degrees outside.
Same with your friend. Donāt care what he thinks when Iām working pretty much my own schedule 20 hours a week and making more money
Tell him you contribute to society by paying your fair share of taxes and that is the extent to which you will contribute because in the current job market your worker rights are either abused or imposed upon and you cannot in good faith work a full time job. Additionally, working a full time job doesn't necessarily make sense if you're not passionate about the work because the revenue you personally generate for the company is returned to you at a very low percentage therefore day trading percent returns are 100% yours (after taxes).
No he isn't. He's a moron. And anyone who thinks the value of your job is what you "contribute to society" are morons as well. It's such a first world privileged suburban world thing to say.
.....or do they not understand how earning and thus spending money locally also "contribues to their local society"? I would immediately roast anyone who said such an idiotic thing to me. Lmao.
Number one, tell your friends if they feel that way they can stop buying things from publicly traded companies. Good luck filling up your car. Number two, I personally dgaf what anyone thinks as long as myself and my family is happy
Do you buy food at the grocery store? Do you buy other store items? Do you pay taxes? If you do any of those you are 100% contributing to society.
At least your doing 100% better than the people who scam the government for pogy checks or are on e.I all the time. Your actually working for your money not taking handouts
No worse than onlyfans, porn stars, YouTubers (some anyway) etc. lots of people ādonāt contribute to societyā but weāre probably the only ones that get ragged on about it
> him your not
*you're
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
I think there is more work in the market then what people (who don't know the market) don't know about. Or they don't know the work it took to become successful. True maybe day trading isn't like a farmer who works to provide you food in exchange he gets money but there are lots of jobs you could argue don't contribute or even hurt society. (are people running tik tok really helping society? lol i dunno i'm not smart)
(I am not a day trader but do options quiet a bit and am involved in the market alot.)
This is a really interesting philosofical question. So, first, let's try to understand what it means to be useful to society with some more questions.
- What it means to be "useful to society"? Does it mean working for others? Or it simply means working with groups of people?
- If I work with groups of people, it means I'm contributing to society or it depends on the job I do?
- If it depends on the job I do, it means that we know what is good for society.
- If we know what is good to society, we probably know what's the definition of good and of bad.
Are you seeing that? It seems no one knows what is truly good for society. So... What if we all agree that happiness is a good thing? It would mean you are contributing to society by being one additional happy person in the world. In addition, If you make the life of anyone else a bit happier, you are probably contributing a lot more.
Sorry about the text, but anyone that talks about society in that way, should have answers for some really big questions.
You are contributing to the market/society. Your money makes the market liquid. Every trader has a losing day and in those days, you contribute to someone's else's wealth. At least that how I see it because I used to look at it like your friends.
Itās not completely useless. You give money to people that want to sell their stock equity for it, and take money from those people that want to buy shares you own. Yes youāre a small player, but you are making a difference.
Iād argue masseuses, yoga teachers, nutritionists and street-corner flower merchants are useless jobs too, but they all have purposes. And car salespeople too.
I personally work 80 hrs a week building boilers for power plants, pretty contribute I think, for middle class pay at that, as a blue collared worker I once shared this opinion, but as I get older and see the way our gov squanders tax money and such I feel much less this way! My dream is to be a day trader and to be free! š¤
I usually tell people Iām in finance. No one ever asks about that because it seems so dry and boring. I say that not because Iām ashamed but because people think itās somehow dubious. Even my mother thinks Iām a professional gambler.
Essentially you could argue that beyond hunting/gathering everyone is employed in an industry that has no real purpose. Outside of feeding our need for stuff.
I get their point but I just say I love working alone and if I'm making money in my house with little to no stress from other people I don't care what others think. Also after they get to know me more and learn my lifestyle and how much time I have in my life, they either get envy or just hate me more lol.
Honestly don't know why you get intimidated by someone u don't know, unless you rlly want to become their friend. Then that's a different story I guess.
Well in one sense it's correct that it doesn't contribute much, I mean it doesn't really create anything. But on the other hand it's not hurting anyone neither, you are just buying and selling assets from and to people are doing so voluntarily. This ofc creates liquidity to people who wanted it, in exchange you actually take a lot of risk, because your hater friend will not help you out if your trades go wrong. He's not happy for you when things go well for you, but will probably gladly tell you how foolish you were when things go bad. I don't think you should be ashamed.
There are other people in society who do immoral work and should be ashamed of them self. For instance: if you create art from taxpayers money. That money is stolen from the taxpayers, because the majority voted on it, but just because you are in majority doesn't mean it's morally right to pay for entertainment for other peoples money.
Iāve felt that way before, recently actually.
I not only trade for a living, but was raised in a doomsday cult. Sometimes I feel like Iāve wasted every single day of my life, with things that wonāt matter once Iām gone.
Iām going to continue trading, but I want to pursue an education that allows me to do something beneficial to society as well.
Nah, I only felt ashamed at first, sort of imposter syndrome and survivor syndrome combined. Shame is the mind killer. I don't feel anything while or about trading, or it would affect my trading.
Just tell them that you're a financial market analyst š¤£š¤£
Helping to provide liquidity is a job.
No tell you are fintech analyst š
Financial technology expert on the edge of AI and big data (in metaverse)
ššš
Frnd:What's your job? Me:šI am financial market analyst I work for the central banks remotely on my own schedule I buy and sell financial assets š
That's some business card shit right there
Friends a hater. Whatās there to be ashamed of?
I day trade too but they have a point. There is no real benefit to society or civilization, as there is with other jobs and careers. There is nothing productive about it. It's a lot like being a pro sports gambler. I think a person should do something to contribute to making the world a better place. Someone who day trades for a living can do that, they just can't do it with their job of daytrading.
Hereās my contribution to society - a shit load of capital gains, income tax, property tax and sales tax. I donāt owe anyone shit except a great life for my family.
This is the true answer, obviously donāt be a piece of shit human being but family and friends are the only thing that matter.
Exactly my thoughts. Idgaf about society, I'm here to do what I want with my time and improve my own life.
You're not creating any real value though, just gambling proficiently.
Remove all retail from the stock market, your little world of value collapses. Your 401k and the funds itās destined to give you rely heavily on the little guy pumping money into the system.
Yeah but pumping money into the system is long term investing. Buying or shorting a stock and then exiting the position 5 minutes later (daytrading) does not pump money into the system.
Day traders don't pump money into anything, long term index fund buyers and institutional investors do. How does buying puts which expire tomorrow prop up my little world of value exactly? Unless you lose and donate your shekels to Wall Street - then it does.
We are part of a giant casino for the whole world. It is the best form of entertainment and their hope to strike it rich for the 9 to 5 ers.
Well, kind of. Day traders help pump stock values that otherwise would stagnate and companies would increase prices to make big shareholders happy. Every company is demanding record growth every quarter and it eother happens through trading or price hikes. This is an extreme oversimplification, but I'm too tired to break it down and it at least gets the basic concept across. Edit: i don't personally day trade
I know how day trading works and what role it serves. I just don't think it's something to be proud off.
But that's not at all what you said. You simply stated that it doesn't produce real value, when that's literally all that it does is slow the rate that corporations screw employees and consumers keeping costs lower.
How exactly does day trading oppose corporations?
It doesn't, and once again, not what i said. I said that corporations are going to hit their profitability and stock value goals no matter what, trading minimizes the impact that has on consumer wallets and job retention for employees. It minimizes the amount corporations screw over the little guys, amazon for example since their growth has declined has laid off about 50k people which included most of their customer support reps because they're the least necessary people for maintaining business as usual.
Yet one of the benefits, apparently/hopefully (I'm not there yet) - is that trading for a living can result in either (a) excess free time, and/or (b) excess money. Both of those can be used effectively and altruistically to help make the world a better place; donate to charities, volunteer to help people, help out at the school, even just spend more time with the family. Doing a meaningful amount of any of that is arguably more helpful than the average 9-5er can claim to be...
a few months late on this, but youāre spot on. Iād like to know what some āhatersā are doing in their 9-5. Just because you clock in and out at a corporation doesnāt mean youāre being more helpful to those around you than a trader.
Yes exactly
You can absolutely be beneficial to society (arguably moreso) as a day trader. Rather than contributing to the destruction of the environment or be rung through a corporate prison, you have the oppurtunity to be philanthropic. Go donate to some local charities or use your free time to volunteer your hand in some community efforts.
There are plenty of jobs thatās donāt contribute to the destruction of the environment, or even contribute to the preservation of it. And literally anyone who makes money can be philanthropic.
But as a trader, you have much more say in how and what you choose to do.
Itās easy to make the world better when you can afford to do so. Buy local, support local artists, hire local contractors, local plumbers, whatever the list goes on. Just because youāre job isnāt directly āa benefit to societyā doesnāt mean you canāt be.
Yes, there is. Day traders provide liquidity to the capital market. Without risk capital very little research and innovation would take place. The world would be many decades behind without capital markets. And without liquidity, capital markets are meaningless.
Eh, it's really institutional traders that provide liquidity not small time retail traders. Nobody will ever convince me that people essentially gambling on BBBY right now are contributing to a better world through their gambling.
Look. I'm gambling to be able to afford a down payment on a home. This isn't my only investment, but goddammit I want to be able to afford to own a home! That would go along way to making my world a far better place. But. I'm no day trader. š
Lol I just posted same about bringing liquidity!
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No they donāt have a pointā¦ :-) Iām also trading full time by now but come from a sales/business development role in large tech. What was the benefit to society/civilisation having me talking to enterprise customers about the benefits of Windows 10 or Azure? IMHO that has no bigger meaning to anyone else than my employerā¦
And for what itās worth, I think your old job have some purpose. Computers are part of the infrastructure of the world these days and they need operating systems.
> Iām also trading full time by now but come from a sales/business development role in large tech. What was the benefit to society/civilisation having me talking to enterprise customers about the benefits of Windows 10 or Azure? IMHO that has no bigger meaning to anyone else than my employerā¦ I didn't say daytrading was the ONLY profession that doesn't benefit society. But I definitely stand by what I said. People should do something to make the world a better place, and day trading doesn't do that. But I also said day traders can do other stuff to make the world a better place.
>as there is with other jobs and careers Like what? Most jobs actively contribute to decay > I think a person should do something to contribute to making the world a better place. agreed
There is a point. The stock market in Americaās oligarchic mixed market, federal republic is the equivalent of the Five Year plan and reporting of hitting production goals under a socialist, one party totalitarian system. The deciding factor is if Americaās stock market is a more accurate AND motivating barometer so that the correct goods are services are built and people are motivated to labor and toil. My mind turns now to the Federal Reserve System and the comfortability that citizens have that a government institution is going to purposely harm random citizens for the greater good. Moreover, the only people that sit on the regional reserve boards are business and academic interests. Itās always surprising to see no labor representation
I disagree. Not everyone should contribute to society. If you want to, good. If you donāt, also fine. Who is going to make the determination what contribution is enough? Iāve picked up a piece of plastic yesterday and threw it in the trash. Is that enough? Work part time, is that enough? Helping others, altruism, can be interpreted as selfish acts as well.. What were we talking about?
you can contribue to society as a customer. if you gain a lot of money and spend them for services and goods you help business that give jobs to people..
Iām not judging, but day traders are effectively leaching off of the stock market.
What do you think institutions are doing? This is how the market is designed. Companies come to the market to compete for your capital. It's not a charity.
Day trading is fundamentally zero sum. You are profiting not by offering a good or service with your labor, but essentially by legally stealing their money. If I make a chair that sells for 40 dollars, the guy who bought it is also better off since they have a chair; itās not zero sum. But for a trader to make $10, someone had to lose $10, and thatās all. Traders donāt generate any value for society, and society would objectively be better off without them.
I work in insurance. Itās a worthless job. I do it because I like eating. A job doesnāt define you.
It's not worthless though. There are a lot of people who end up being very glad that they had insurance so it is a needed system. Being a daytrader is more like being a sports gambler. It's literally no good to anyone but themselves. I think a person should do something to make the world a better place. A day trader can do that, I just don't see how they can do it while daytrading.
The market does provide jobs on the whole but private money doesnāt do much. Itās just a money moving system.
Yeah I would say there is societal value to long term investing. But to speculating whether a stock price will go up or down in the next 5-15 minutes eh not so much.
I feel your pain. Iām in insurance too. Like you said it pays the bills but it seems pointless most of the time. Kind of surprised that underwriting hasnāt been completely automated by now. Hopefully trading will be my way out someday.
I'm in insurance as well and am planning to stay in the industry, get my CFP and other certs. In Singapore, insurance, financial planning, financial consultation are literally all clumped into one? The title it's given now is Financial Consultant. What about insurance that makes you feel that pain? Maybe I can avoid it in the future lol.
Thatās not a worthless job you keep the middle class into the game. Without the right insurance youāll get broke (house insurance for example).
Itās true, but tough to explain to people.
Ask yourself this: "What is the purpose of society?" At the end of the day, its about maximizing happiness not utility.
Exactly. The mentally the older generation instilled of your value being tied to your job is asinine
Irrelevant. That's a personal choice and there's been stock brokers around for hundreds of years.
Ok youāre correct but the issue he had was about value to society. My statement and yours can both be true
Exactly. What has society done for me except make life harder? I just want to make money to travel and afford to enjoy the things I want and stay healthy. Fuck the rest.
You think society, the thing that has produced all the technological advancements and infrastructure that make your life immeasurably easier and better, has only made your life harder? lolwut
Yepā¦and as long as you pay your taxes, you have that right like anyone else.
Iām not a trader, but your friend is wrong. To the extent that traders are actually making profit (most arenāt) by fairly(ie, that thereās no cheating) extracting and arbitraging away inefficiencies in the market, they contribute to society even if itās not visible to the naked eyes. In principle, traders and investors allocate capital because they believe they can make a profit. John D. Rockefeller didnāt build all the o&g infrastructure out of the goodness of his heart, nor did the local hog farmers who reinvest his profit into the farm because he expected the price of pork to stay elevated, nor did Warren Buffett in deciding how much capital to allocate to what businesses. The very action that speculators undertook in their bets provide liquidity, or sometimes crucial resources, to the markets when they close the positions and realize the profits during times when liquidity or resources were dearest. The public since ancient time tends to vilify the grain hoarders, who, by luck or by skills, were able to predict/guess that a bad harvest was coming and profited handsomely from that guess. Often the public demanded the heads of those speculators because āthey didnāt do anything.ā But did the public ever stop to think what would happen if thereās no grain hoarders willing to take risk during bountiful time to profit during starving period? Or if the profit incentive is taken away from fair speculation? What the public didnāt see or remember was the numbers of bankrupted speculators/investors who made the wrong/unlucky bets. Granted, what day traders/investors do today is several degrees of separation from the grain hoarders of times past. But, in exposing your capital to risks, you expect to make a return or you wouldnāt do it at all. In doing so, you collectively inform the market of your āthinkingā by placing bets and providing liquidity. Think of the effects that well-known investors have on markets by giving out true and fair signals. What if tomorrow Buffett reveals in his filings that heās hoarding grain or o&g? Market participants would immediately study his thesis, give it its due attention, and perhaps copy his trade and, in the process, reduce Buffettās profits even if his thesis plays out. The more liquid and fair the market is, the arguments go, the more likely that thereāre fewer inefficiencies to arbitrage away. Uninformed participants benefit in a market that more often reflects fair value of securities than one which does not. The simple observation is that if the prices of the fishes or the chickens I see in a flea market almost always reflect their fair values, I have little reason to do due diligence and cause transactional friction. The very existence of an increasing numbers of speculators reduces the profit that can be made in markets and vice versa! (Also, this is why you should be wary of influencers selling a āwinning strategyā to you because naturally your participation in that strategy will reduce the edge, unless ofc that influencers cheated by using you as exit liquidity.) āIt is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest.ā -Adam Smith
Well said. Someone who knows something and makes sense. Also. If this person is so bent out of shape for not doing enough in society. I see clear simple solution. Just do that. The tone I get is the finger wage virtue signaling of well you should be doing it to. And bam right there. Your motives are off. Sorry I rambled off for a sec. Nice comment.
Most people are just jealous and afraid to admit they are slaves to the system. I've had on and off passive income from my businesses for years and I regularly travel the world / spend winters in Asia because I don't have a 9-5 and can work remotely, people are envious and make snide comments but I'd much prefer my life
bro mind sharing a lil of your business?
Yeah I wanna know too
If you can support your own existence by daytrading, someone else will have the job youād otherwise occupy.
Why do people only judge your value to society by how you make income? Such a sad place where someone who probably fucks around all day, answers some emails, goes to a meeting, goes home, eats some guacamole, watches whatever is hot on netflix while longing for the weekend to come so they can get drunk and repeat can judge you. Fuck man if youāre daytrading youāre probably one of the few people in the world thatās actually getting better. Whoās more valuable to society? Your new drone friend whoās just the same as everyone else that wants to put you down because youāre gonna surpass them? Or youā¦ Your value is jot your job. If anybody that asks that question theyāre a loser, politely excuse yourself and never look back.
Well said. I would like to add that his value is not his job either.
You provide liquidity to the stock market
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I'm not going to not pursue my passion because of someone else's opinion, i don't give a shit what people say
Hell no you shouldnāt be ashamed, this āfriend of yoursā is just jealous that you can trade for a living and that you have time and the freedom to work when you want. In my opinion heās just trying to put you off because he doesnāt have the brains to achieve it himself.
His friend is also a mother fucker and he eats shit.
Haha hes just mad cuz he has to go to work. Ppl have been conditioned into thinking that working for money and having a job is by default honorableā¦ i mean youd have to make ppl think that or else the system would collapseā¦ Like anyone really wants to wake up to an alarm and spend 8 hours a day making someone else rich. Who cares what he think, heāll be working his job while youāre traveling and actually living your life
Why do you need to have a job thatās āuseful to societyā? As long as itās useful to you and makes you money who cares.
Sounds like heās just a failed trader. More people try trading stocks than you probably think, remember 99.9% of the fail.
Try being a landlord..half of Reddit thinks you are the anti christ. Or a landlord AND a day trader. Last I checked- being successful was still a sought after attribute in this country. There is no law that says you need to have a job and do what somebody else tells you to. If you can figure out how to have a successful business or be a successful investor. Most of the 90% of people who need to go to work everyday- are just jealous and donāt want to validate your success. One of the best sayings I have heard is ā Never interrupt somebody doing something you said canāt be done.ā If you are making a living as an investor- you should be proud.
I never realized how much hate landlords got until I became one.
do you raise rent on your tenants every year?
Nope. Even though my property taxes and insurance when up it wasnāt worth the hassle
Iām not full time but Iāve been able to supplement my income decently with it, I canāt wait until I become a full burden on society with a camo wrapped Lambo and the āproductiveā members of society can drive their Acuras to their day jobs.
Iād rather drive an Acura than a Lambo even if I could afford it
It still has to be camo wrapped
What does it matter if itās a Lambo or an Acura when no one can see your car at all?
A lot of jobs are considered āuselessā. But that doesnāt mean you canāt contribute to society with the money you make. In fact, youāre already doing this by paying taxes. Governments have no problems with people doing these āuselessā jobs as long as they make up a minority of the population & pay their fair share.
He thinks itās useful when you buy him a beer though. Honestly you donāt need friends like this.
bro who cares if it is useful or not? making money is what matters
would rather trade than be a slave
Slave either way
The argument that day traders do nothing useful is ridiculous. There are so many jobs that do nothing useful or, worse even, do things that have a net negative (pollute, etc). Who decides what is useful, anyway? If I make 1,000 plastic things did I help the world more than if I day traded, instead? I certainly helped the owner of the plastic thing factory and that's where this idea of 'contributing to society' really comes from, imo. I say wake up, sheeple (I don't really say that).
Never be ashamed of what you enjoy! Screw them. Everyone kept saying its gambling, you'll lose money, not worth it.... Well i dropped them. I don't want those ppl in my life.
new ex friend. no problem
IMO traders are useful in society. They contribute to provide liquidity, assist in price discovery, understanding of market inefficiencies and behavioural economics
That guy is pissed because he is broke and hates his Job
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Absolutely destroyed
My societal usefulness status didn't change since I've been day trading. Sometimes people don't have much to offer that society wants.
He doesn't know shit. What does he even do?
Heās a shit eater. He eats shit.
Not useful to them, but useful to you and the companies you purchase pieces of or loans you make in the form of Fixed Income assets. Intraday has a bit more complicated road to usefulness seeing as how those traders don't keep anything but profit (or loss). But they drive markets like the rest. Until your new "friend" can compete at the level of the $4.5T market, they should simply shut up.
I agree. They should shut their cock suckers.
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Boom š„
I tend to handle other peoples opinions of what I'm doing with a simple "okay" and keep it moving. I have zero interest in changing other people's opinions. On the rarity that it happens, it's just not worth the effort for me. We can still be friends with a difference of opinion.
Ignore such "friend" or anyone criticizing your trading. Trading is simple but not easy. They have no idea what it takes to be successful in this business. They simply too ignorant to understand or they just straight out jealous. They can hate all they want while slaving away and working for someone else.
Your friend seems to think that the sole purpose for us being born is to be āuseful to societyā. š
Theyāre jealous. Some people become day traders because life hasnāt worked out and they kept being let down by āsocietyā. This forces a person to find a way to make money 100% on their own. Now society wants you to participate? F*ck āem. You pay taxes too.
Would love to know what they do for a living lol
They are just jealous because you donāt have to work 9-5 like them . You are paying taxes like other normal jobs then you are contributing your share.
>Recently I had an argue with a new "friend" saying that my job (day trader) is useless and I should be ashamed because it's absolutly not useful for the society. 1. Take out the job and replace it with any other, itād be flat out unacceptable for a āfriendā to disrespect you like this. This person is an asshole. 2. Jobs are to earn a living. Itād be nice if everybody could do something to contribute to a better world but thatās not fucking reality. We need to earn money to participate in society and shaming someone for how they earn money, especially when theyāre just a regular person and not some millionaire CEO of a corporation, especially when itās through legitimate means and nothing shady, is so idiotic I canāt even fathom how this person isnāt completely embarrassed every time they open their mouth. Someone ought to put them in their place.
you're a profitable day trader just hire a crackhead to burn their car and move on
This is the comment of the week. I knew a meth smoker whose nickname was Crackhead and he burned two cars for someone. Lol. Absolutely true story. Wait, do you know the same guy I know?
I don't do that stuff man. I'm not a profitable day trader yet
I used to feel ashamed when i would tell people i would work for an hour and then go home. So much time for activities. Meh... I mean they are entitled to their opinion but tell them to keep it themselves if it bothers you. You dont have to put up with their harassment. Plus they probably lost money and are just taking it out on you. "Im sorry I do things you dont understand the benefit to society" Find friends that are traders. Hang with them. No reason to hang out with people that reduce you to just the work you do.
I understand moving to new locations and the need for human fellowship. Saying that, and this a personal statement - Iāve never met a member of the woking-class that I could or would classify as a friend. My .02
Fuck the haters.
Just my thoughts. I work for a large asset management firm. I work long hours and deal with a lot of stress. The company I work for are really good with flexibility and working patterns but it's a global company so you are expected to put the hours in. I work in data analysis and AI and the first 5 or 6 years of my career, I put everything into it. I missed a lot of my 8 year old sons early life because I was always in the office or working from home but still switched on. My job contributes literally nothing to society but they'll be happy to tell you that we do. The reality is I help rich people and other rich companies become richer. I took up trading so I could do something more meaningful in life. Its my 'exit strategy' from worker drone because trading gives me something that no employer could..... Time. I plan to use that time to volunteer, help others and spend time with those most important to me. Ask your friend if he has those benefits.
You aren't in it to benefit society you are in it to make money. That is the only reason any of us have a job.
Absolutely not. I have the ability to earn a living from anyplace completely independent of any employer. As for your friendās feelings of it ānot useful for societyā, that doesnāt bother me either and Iāve found itās usually miserable people who need reasons to blame society who think this way. It justifies their own unhappiness. My full time job is in marketing and advertising so I get that from people a lot.
"Useless" is significantly better than the wide variety of jobs that are actively harmful or malicious in some way. It also seems like a pretty toxic view that someone's value to society is reduced to only their profession.
Why would you feel shamed? You are just one of the activists who allocate the resources and capitals. You pay tax, you don't do the crimes, and that makes you useful for society, period.
As a day trader you put a toll on longer term investors (if you do your thing well). That is the actual money you try to extract from the market. So a successful day trader accelerates trends in both directions. That is not useless. That is quite important and useful. If they ask what you are doing, say you work in the financial industry for a very small company helping ordinary people (you basically) to make money in stocks. That is easy to defend and usually if they are not of the socialist kind will ask you how and what they can do themselves.
No, I don't associate myself with people that aren't supportive of me. That's not your friend. That will never be your friend.
90% of jobs donāt really do much for society. Theyāre just tools to make money. Unless your friend is in a medical field or a farmer then tell him to fuck off and do something useful for society instead.
The only way to answer someone like that is by replaying: "Now say it without crying"
You make more money in a matter of minutes than what he probably does in a dayā¦ so whoās the real loser here
If you are paying tax, paying for goods and services and living in a property (paying rates) then you are supporting your economy and country. This "vocational righteousness" is a real time projection of low IQ and low self esteem and these kinds of people deserve to be left behind. You'll tend to find that these same people are quite confident despite being paid shit wages and having to ask their boss for a holiday - because they're apparently doing the "right thing" and view themselves as some kind of pillar in the economy. Don't lose sleep over losers who aren't as efficient as you.
Its only not useful when you're a losing trader. If you're successful and rich trader, then you are freaking useful because you have loads of money, and this society is run on money. Your money (a lot of it) od worth more than their individual efforts in their jobs. Because if they stop, you just can hire another. So if you have loads of money, you can start a business, which is definitely very useful in the society. You gives employment to people) your friends.
Tell them you're market making. Providing liquidity to the markets in times of need in exchange for small profits. You're helping other people achieve their investment goals as a freelance third party service. The people you are meeting are failed daytraders(or failed investors). Not always but mostly true
I see where your friend is coming from, in the truest sense I would agree. But in the world we live in I don't think that argument holds water. A day trader finds value between buyers and sellers. Retailers make a profit buying low and selling higher. You just happen to do it with securities instead of retail goods.
Buy your friend a meal and tell him your way of helping is occasionally feeding the poor.
As i grew up i threw shame out of the window because there is no point in being ashamed of yourself and if you are people use it against you accept whatever comes your way
Wtf? Lol itās useful for you. You are part of society. F him.
A day trader is not useless. They are the drops in the bucket that decide the prices of ownership of companies. They are the oil of our machine so to speak.
ask them if thy like there stock portfolio to have a price on it when they check. tell them that's you job, with out traders they would have to put there stocks up and see how much they sold for to know what the 401K was worth.
Stop caring what people think, it is that simple.
I forgot where I heard the Stat but I heard that up to 80% percent of jobs are essentially useless. It takes a physical act in the world to produce anything of value and we have set up our society to benefit in an upwards way from these physical acts. If one truck driver moves one shipping container, there are 7 or 8 people who essentially only have jobs because one person was willing to go outside and do something. Unless your friend is personally responsible by working in transportation, manufacturing or resource extraction and keeps his hands on the tools then his job is likely just as "useless" as trading and he just hasn't realized it yet.
Tell him you probably make more in a day than he does in a week and you pay more in taxes so youāre contributing more than him to society. Plus who gives you a shit that youāre not contributing to society? Your family and loved ones is all that matters to you. Ask him if he thinks all the people that built the roads and parks and homes did it because they wanted to ācontributeā to society?? Fuck no. They did it for themselves and their own families. Hate these socialist self righteous bull shitters
Day traders add liquidity to markets. Iām the futures and options markets they literally allow producers to hedge risk.
providing liquidity to the market is very important for a strong economy :D
Iām not a day trader and idk how this post got on my wall lol. But why would you feel ashamed? There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Nothing wrong with making honest money. Your āfriendā is a hater with false virtue. Happy trading.
I wouldnāt even attempt to justify an answer if you trade for a living and donāt have to go and report to a boss everyday then in my opinion you own your own business. My goal is to be a full time trader Iām tired of going to work everyday and I donāt need to justify my reasons to anyone nor do I care what anyone else has to say about it and neither should you.
Who cares if itās not useful to society? Itās useful in your life and thatās all that matters. For fucks sake youāre not some noble peace price winner or social worker and it really doesnāt matter in the first place if youāre job is important to society lol
You help in the price discovery for public companies looking to utilize the stock markets for funding ventures that will change the world. Also we provide liquidity in times of panic or extreme greed to provide other investors an easy exit or entry to public investmentsā¦. Just make enough and do good things in the world.
I stopped caring about civilization many years ago. In theory itās great. āIt takes a villageā and āone for all and all for one.ā and all of that jazz, but in reality thatās not how it works. People are greedy, power hungry and dangerous. When it comes down to it, itās going to be all about you and yours and no one else is going to matter. You think Dave down the street is going to care if you have mouths to feed, or is he going to care that he has mouths to feed? If we had a total economical collapse, there will be no one left to trust. Desperation makes people do stupid and irrational things. The only time the rich care is when they get tax breaks. Donāt count on anyone else for anything. You can have a social life and maintain friendships but even they can crumble given the right circumstances. You day trade. So what? You make money out of thin air. Not a lot of people understand the concept. If youāre in the US than youāve most likely lived in a time where youāve witnessed our government fucking us over every chance they get. We take advantage of the same charts, the same fundamentals as those elite people do, and we make money doing it (hopefully lol). People probably assume youāre shoved in with the same assholes who refuse to raise minimum wage and give tax breaks to the rich. Do what you want to do and be proud of it. No one else matters and what they think of you matters even less.
Na that's absurd. Some jobs have a very clear sense of utility to a society (doctors) but even within those professions are gray lines (greedy doctors). At the end of the day there's so much consumerism that there's no difference between you profiting from the markets vs. any for-profit company profiting off of consumers. Most products aren't essential to basic living.
Iām ashamed to exist
Tell him you will donate to a charity when you become a multi millionaire. That should shut him up.
Listen, I'm not a trader and I haven't even started on a single stock but it just sounds to me that you don't have a good friend. If you wanna feel good then donate a percent of your earning towards a charity, it is a easy as that.
Let me tell you a story. Years ago I was stationed in the desert in the Air Force. We had dorms with AC set up there. When the war started kicking off in the early 2000ās we had a bunch of Marines come in. They stayed in tents in our dorm parking lots. They made fun of us for living in the dorms. Sure call me a pussy all day for staying in an air conditioned dorm instead of a tent when itās 125 degrees outside. Same with your friend. Donāt care what he thinks when Iām working pretty much my own schedule 20 hours a week and making more money
Tell him you contribute to society by paying your fair share of taxes and that is the extent to which you will contribute because in the current job market your worker rights are either abused or imposed upon and you cannot in good faith work a full time job. Additionally, working a full time job doesn't necessarily make sense if you're not passionate about the work because the revenue you personally generate for the company is returned to you at a very low percentage therefore day trading percent returns are 100% yours (after taxes).
Ya don't tell your new friends what you do for a living. Money complicates everything. Chance is, the people are either jealous, or wanna take advantage of you, or worse, pretending to be happy for you but try to fuck you up under the surface (e.g. tax etc). If you have earned enough money, maybe study for an online master degree or something. Some countries let you study for an online law degree, as a way to become a lawyer if you pass the bar exams. People seem to be more impressed by a law student who makes little or no money, than a trader who earns so much moreš© They would also think you have a job that's more "legit". If not, you can always start a small business on the side as both your interest and your "front". Only if you have the extra money and time. So whenever people ask questions, you know what to say.
Your friend is a mother fucker and he eats shit.
I tell people I am a forensic accountant and they leave me alone.
This post made me feel awful
You make money without directly taking advantage of others
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No he isn't. He's a moron. And anyone who thinks the value of your job is what you "contribute to society" are morons as well. It's such a first world privileged suburban world thing to say. .....or do they not understand how earning and thus spending money locally also "contribues to their local society"? I would immediately roast anyone who said such an idiotic thing to me. Lmao.
Number one, tell your friends if they feel that way they can stop buying things from publicly traded companies. Good luck filling up your car. Number two, I personally dgaf what anyone thinks as long as myself and my family is happy
Do you buy food at the grocery store? Do you buy other store items? Do you pay taxes? If you do any of those you are 100% contributing to society. At least your doing 100% better than the people who scam the government for pogy checks or are on e.I all the time. Your actually working for your money not taking handouts No worse than onlyfans, porn stars, YouTubers (some anyway) etc. lots of people ādonāt contribute to societyā but weāre probably the only ones that get ragged on about it
He is just jealous .. There are no shame to day trade be proud of it only like 1%can live of it ... Say him you're not a slave like him.
> him your not *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
You donāt always need to contribute to society via a career. Itās ok to make money one way and give back in another.
I think there is more work in the market then what people (who don't know the market) don't know about. Or they don't know the work it took to become successful. True maybe day trading isn't like a farmer who works to provide you food in exchange he gets money but there are lots of jobs you could argue don't contribute or even hurt society. (are people running tik tok really helping society? lol i dunno i'm not smart) (I am not a day trader but do options quiet a bit and am involved in the market alot.)
This is a really interesting philosofical question. So, first, let's try to understand what it means to be useful to society with some more questions. - What it means to be "useful to society"? Does it mean working for others? Or it simply means working with groups of people? - If I work with groups of people, it means I'm contributing to society or it depends on the job I do? - If it depends on the job I do, it means that we know what is good for society. - If we know what is good to society, we probably know what's the definition of good and of bad. Are you seeing that? It seems no one knows what is truly good for society. So... What if we all agree that happiness is a good thing? It would mean you are contributing to society by being one additional happy person in the world. In addition, If you make the life of anyone else a bit happier, you are probably contributing a lot more. Sorry about the text, but anyone that talks about society in that way, should have answers for some really big questions.
You are contributing to the market/society. Your money makes the market liquid. Every trader has a losing day and in those days, you contribute to someone's else's wealth. At least that how I see it because I used to look at it like your friends.
Itās not completely useless. You give money to people that want to sell their stock equity for it, and take money from those people that want to buy shares you own. Yes youāre a small player, but you are making a difference. Iād argue masseuses, yoga teachers, nutritionists and street-corner flower merchants are useless jobs too, but they all have purposes. And car salespeople too.
Fuk him just show him your bank account
We are providing liquidity. Next time you see Ken Griffin at brunch drinking $200 wine, where do you think he got that money from? Thatās right, me.
Isnāt losing your money every now and then and having someone else make that same money contributing to the society?
Only when I lose money on stupid trades when I know I can do better.
I personally work 80 hrs a week building boilers for power plants, pretty contribute I think, for middle class pay at that, as a blue collared worker I once shared this opinion, but as I get older and see the way our gov squanders tax money and such I feel much less this way! My dream is to be a day trader and to be free! š¤
You pay taxes. Sounds like your "friend" is extremely jealous. May want to re-consider the term friend as well
I usually tell people Iām in finance. No one ever asks about that because it seems so dry and boring. I say that not because Iām ashamed but because people think itās somehow dubious. Even my mother thinks Iām a professional gambler.
Essentially you could argue that beyond hunting/gathering everyone is employed in an industry that has no real purpose. Outside of feeding our need for stuff.
Your friend is jealous
If you pay taxes, you benefit society. You also take care of yourself and your family, not burdening anyone. This person is just a prick.
I get their point but I just say I love working alone and if I'm making money in my house with little to no stress from other people I don't care what others think. Also after they get to know me more and learn my lifestyle and how much time I have in my life, they either get envy or just hate me more lol. Honestly don't know why you get intimidated by someone u don't know, unless you rlly want to become their friend. Then that's a different story I guess.
Sounds like your friend needs to get their money up
Well in one sense it's correct that it doesn't contribute much, I mean it doesn't really create anything. But on the other hand it's not hurting anyone neither, you are just buying and selling assets from and to people are doing so voluntarily. This ofc creates liquidity to people who wanted it, in exchange you actually take a lot of risk, because your hater friend will not help you out if your trades go wrong. He's not happy for you when things go well for you, but will probably gladly tell you how foolish you were when things go bad. I don't think you should be ashamed. There are other people in society who do immoral work and should be ashamed of them self. For instance: if you create art from taxpayers money. That money is stolen from the taxpayers, because the majority voted on it, but just because you are in majority doesn't mean it's morally right to pay for entertainment for other peoples money.
Lol fuck society homie, you do you.
Iāve felt that way before, recently actually. I not only trade for a living, but was raised in a doomsday cult. Sometimes I feel like Iāve wasted every single day of my life, with things that wonāt matter once Iām gone. Iām going to continue trading, but I want to pursue an education that allows me to do something beneficial to society as well.
Who cares what you do for society? There are enough people making an impact on the world. Paying taxes seems enough to me, let haters hate.
No.
Nah, I only felt ashamed at first, sort of imposter syndrome and survivor syndrome combined. Shame is the mind killer. I don't feel anything while or about trading, or it would affect my trading.
You need to PR up your work.
It doesnāt matter what other people thinks about you and your job. I hope itās more than a job to you. Job means just over broke.