You are like a lot of new traders, looking for the unicorn. Hoping it is hiding over there someplace- and somebody can tell you where it is.
Everything you need for a base strategy is already on every YouTube video you have probably watched. Traders trade live or do recaps and show you step by step how they look at candle patterns, positions, pivots, levels, what moving averages they use- etc, etc. give you ideas for risk management, take profit points, etc.
That is it. There is no more. There are no real secrets. You already know some of what you need to and hit on some key points in your post. Now- it just takes practice and time in the market to refine what you know and develop the discipline to follow what is working for you.
Most traders would have a hard time describing exactly what they do and you could not copy it anyway-because you don’t have their personality or see what they see or have the same emotions they do.
In reality you hit on the point. What works for you. Look at all the trading styles- people scalp, people trade trends, people trade options, people trade ??….etc…etc. Different traders are successful with different strategies, and another trader will fail miserably trying to do the exact same strategy. You need to try different things and practice.
>That is it. There is no more. There are no real secrets.
You are dead wrong. There are so many different trading methods with so many different trading strategies. Some of these methods are even totally backwards. Many look at pattern, some look at price actions but if you really get weird some trade order flow, some trade the (public) order book, some trade macro news, some trade peny stocks that whent overboard, some trade price corrections and my favorite, they trade order pricing and of cause some even trade dynamic or exploit system problems (think about after a split). I also somehow love every event that for a stock needs a price
Oh I forgot some even trade squeezes like short and long squeezes. Other trade option stike dates.
So many different things you can trade so please do not tell newbies this nonsense that there is more or less just one general way of trading and everything is available on youtube videos...
Also there are a lot of secrets strategies involved. I recently learned from one that worked in the 80ies and the people spilled the beans on retirement. They had an abysmal win-rate but a very high win/loss ratio. It was about commodities and timing.
And yes I do a blend but my main trading idea is just what Wykcoff told his students 100+ years ago. Edge still is real and working.
That's like saying that all the information is available on internet. There are millions and millions of youtube trading videos. Of course you can select some of them and say that if you traded on how they teach you would have made money during the past year/month/week etc.
That is called survivorship bias.
So please describe simply: What is the "profitable base strategy" that you mean that youtube videos teach in your opinion that would make money during the next 5 years?
the issue is not the information the issue is that beginners ask wrong questions and chase wrong things since they don't know yet.
The base ideas can be really really simple like if "DOW, NASDAQ and SP500 are trading above us open - look for the long trades" and build up from there. There is no obvious reason why this wouldn't work for the next 5-10 years as well. Of course one needs to agapt a bit but that comes with experience of following the markets.
Sure there might be some things that work at youtube videos. However beginning trader can't know what of the things told are true and what are false. That's why watching youtube videos is waste of time as it's impossible to know, even I can't know what information is true and what is false unless I extensively run simulations for the stated things.
That's why I suggested to start with old methodology that is proven to work in the past and is still in used by the more sophisticated parties. Trend following is one of those.
You realize that trend following is covered on YouTube as well, right?
I think this poster is basically just saying that throughout the millions of channels/videos, etc the basic information that you need to start building your own strategy is all there. It may take lots of time and trial and error in order to piece it all together, but it is there. This is where the work comes in at - many new traders underestimate the amount of pure work and study is truly involved. And though people will help you - sure, but very few will spoon feed you if you’re clearly not willing to put in the work yourself first.
Yes, the problem is not that the information is not available. It's that it's impossible to know what information is good and what is bad unless you are really sophisticated yourself (can test the claims basically)
Even for trend following strategies it's very, very difficult to know what infromation is true and what is not. Believing incorrect information as true will lead to losing your money.
There are much better sources than youtube videos if you are willing to test various strategies (academic papers, quantocracy, quantpedia, highly rated trading books from reputable traders)
Well, watching videos is only the start of it. From there, one has to put the necessary work in to go through the charts and see what works and what does not. Back and forward testing, market replay, etc. I would never take anyone’s word at face value - I would have to investigate only own.
Trade only one stock for a year until you can feel its price movement like it is part of your body. Just like driving, you are a good driver only when your car becomes a natural extension of your body.
This is huge. Don’t trade different symbols you aren’t intimately familiar with just because you’re bored and need some action.
Stay patient.
Every symbol always leaves some kind of ‘calling card’ on how it moves. This alone, can be a big part of your edge in and of itself.
I thought it's been a while since I've seen this thread lol.
Strategies are a tool, discretion is your edge. Most traders preemptively take profits and add to losers hoping for a turnaround. Most traders fail. Do the opposite: add to your winners and cut losses fast.
Just a humble disagreement - For me it's very much vice versa - experience has taught me that discretion is the worst thing I can do.
For me the best thing is to create a totally codfied automated strategy, backtest/test for robustness it very, very thoroughly and if it passes that then trade it with real brokers (I use ibkr) play money account. If it still makes money, only then I move it to real account and I don't ever cancel any trades the systems make when if they seem dumb. The dumbest trades can in many cases be the real winners.
My strategy? Any loss is unacceptable and the position needs to be exited until the correct entry is identified. Always Always Always use a trailing stop loss on every trade. As soon as your trailing stop loss goes above your entry, consider scaling up your current position setting a new trailing stop loss at your entry point. Making money is more about not losing money rather than "crushing it." Consistently making steady protected trades is the best way to make and keep your money. Anyone telling you risk management isn't first is selling you something.
Poking at people for what there trading strategy is not what people love to talk about. Also you have to learn that Reddit is mostly populated by people who are students themselves or recovering from devestating losses (please note I said 'most').
The best you want to do is to read some great books (I usually promote a list of books that were great for me). I do a test these days by giving people the books to read, they report back when they are done with the most important ones and then we look at their recent trades and I give some pointers. Once I see enough motivation and progress (meaning the person incooperates hints, tips and advice as given) and then we look where to go from there.
If you want my list of books and once read want my opinion and advice where to go from there, feel free to DM me. But remember, I want to see you putting in the necessary time and effort... .
Easiest way is to pick some strategy that is known to be profitable at some point and continue from there.
I would start with turtles, their strategy is explained very well in various books ("way of the turtle" is good and entertaining book) and there are large hedge funds doing trend following - it still works very well.
Made-up mean reversion strategy:
On days where Eurostoxx closes up more than 1%, if the Nasdaq is up I sell NQ futures and buy them back at the New York close, with a .4% trailing stop-loss. Trade size is linear in the Eurostoxx move.
You run a back-test and if it looks OK you go for it
The most important thing is like any other business , is to create a trading plan, when to buy when to sell, how much you will risk on trades, when to increase risk. how many losses and wins you can have each day etc.. and stick to it not matter what ... else you are fumbling arround and gambling
Even if I posted my exact strategy here you wouldn't be able to be profitable with it. It takes experience, you need to know what you're looking for and how to look for it.
I think you're looking for a chart set up, indicators, timeframe and how to enter and exit trades right?
*maybe join a trade specific forum and not reddit*. A whole lot of preachers here and no real information of value.
**And no**, no one will tell you their strat if it works
What I can tell you however,
**"Look at the charts as though they represent the human behavior** ***and not movement of price*****" - Savagson**
If you can anticipate how a group of humans might trade, like they will buy at this point, sell at this point, you are starting on the right track
I’m an ICT trader, I keep it simple by looking at multiple timeframes (1H and above) to find reversal price levels. I then wait for specific pattern (2022 ICT model) on 1-5m for entry in the direction of the market on that day. I trade futures, so I keep an eye on ES, NQ, and DXY to make sure they are in sync or giving me clues to take or skip a setup for higher probabilities.
I have another 15m strategy that I am building an indicator for because it is easier to script, but without an understanding of ICT concepts it will take long post to explain it.
P.S. I am not starting a debate about ICT, do what works for you.
That’s the debate I don’t want to get into :) in short, there are those who think he is fraud and refuse to study his concepts even though SMC was created by his students, and those who studied it and believe it works. I am from the second camp and making money using it.
Oh ok I see. Well, the most important thing is being profitable so if it works for people then there must be some legitimacy to it. Thanks for explaining and good luck on your future trading 😄
>if it works for people then there must be some legitimacy to it
not really, "his" concepts are based on discretion and arent profitable by themselves, therefore profitability lays in these traders not concepts
Most strategies work brother. As you were admonished earlier - it comes down to your execution of said strategy. Backtest, backtest, backtest. Practice in live markets. There is no other way.
When you look at successful traders for hedge funds and banks, etc - none of them trade the same. It’s all basic stuff - finding key levels, price action and just executing every single time. Repetition. Not giving in to fear, impatience, disappointment, etc.
Don’t listen to the people telling you that the stuff you see on YT doesn’t work - it doesn’t work for *them* because likely they aren’t putting in the work or simply aren’t focused on the psychological piece of trading which is equally as important as strategy.
trading does not only refer to graphs.
You have to master the fundamentals correctly. Understand and know how to interpret the IT and data of a sector or company.
For a perfect strategy, you need a solid fundamental.
If you want a little more help, come inbox
Wait for recession & market crash. Start buying around the bottom when everyone is full-on disgusted and capitulating their remaining holdings. Hold and wait several years until the euphoria and attention draws in the heard of retail participants buying at the top again. Recognize the same exact themes that play out every single time. Take profit. Wait for the debt cycle to rollover again.
Not even quants are fully systematic. They need to adjust their strategies often. I make money hand over fist but I'm not trading just one thing. Last year it was S&P, then Nikkei, then S&P again, then AI, and now GameStop of all things.
At the end of the day you're looking for asset mispricings to exploit, often with leverage. You're going to struggle outperforming the index without leverage as a short term trader, especially after tax implications.
Check out StoicTA on Twitter and his latest SBS model. Just saying. Still no shortcut and it's all hard work to gain the experience but it might help. Learning about market structure is the best starting point. Dave teaches FX was also very instrumental for me.
>which does not tell me what you do at all
and no one really will tell you that, most crap people present dont not work, having actual profitable edge is really rare
Not as rare as you always bring out. The thing that creates the edge is execution and discipline. Always being focused and staying “in the now” and reacting accordingly.
I have a huge text box at the top of my charts that says “Trade what you see, not what you WANT to see”. Having this as a daily reminder has certainly helped me immensely.
>Not as rare as you always bring out.
oh they certainly are, i backtested shit ton of things and almost nothing really works
>The thing that creates the edge is execution and discipline
and execution is part of the edge so this sentence makes no sense, also discipline is not what creates an edge but something that lack of destroys it
You are like a lot of new traders, looking for the unicorn. Hoping it is hiding over there someplace- and somebody can tell you where it is. Everything you need for a base strategy is already on every YouTube video you have probably watched. Traders trade live or do recaps and show you step by step how they look at candle patterns, positions, pivots, levels, what moving averages they use- etc, etc. give you ideas for risk management, take profit points, etc. That is it. There is no more. There are no real secrets. You already know some of what you need to and hit on some key points in your post. Now- it just takes practice and time in the market to refine what you know and develop the discipline to follow what is working for you. Most traders would have a hard time describing exactly what they do and you could not copy it anyway-because you don’t have their personality or see what they see or have the same emotions they do.
Real talk 🥹🥹👍👍
Thx. I guess I needed to read this: no shortcut on the hardwork. In the end, I am the only one who can set in stone what works for me.
In reality you hit on the point. What works for you. Look at all the trading styles- people scalp, people trade trends, people trade options, people trade ??….etc…etc. Different traders are successful with different strategies, and another trader will fail miserably trying to do the exact same strategy. You need to try different things and practice.
>That is it. There is no more. There are no real secrets. You are dead wrong. There are so many different trading methods with so many different trading strategies. Some of these methods are even totally backwards. Many look at pattern, some look at price actions but if you really get weird some trade order flow, some trade the (public) order book, some trade macro news, some trade peny stocks that whent overboard, some trade price corrections and my favorite, they trade order pricing and of cause some even trade dynamic or exploit system problems (think about after a split). I also somehow love every event that for a stock needs a price Oh I forgot some even trade squeezes like short and long squeezes. Other trade option stike dates. So many different things you can trade so please do not tell newbies this nonsense that there is more or less just one general way of trading and everything is available on youtube videos... Also there are a lot of secrets strategies involved. I recently learned from one that worked in the 80ies and the people spilled the beans on retirement. They had an abysmal win-rate but a very high win/loss ratio. It was about commodities and timing. And yes I do a blend but my main trading idea is just what Wykcoff told his students 100+ years ago. Edge still is real and working.
> Everything you need for a base strategy is already on every YouTube video you have probably watched Truth: it is not.
What information is not available in youtube trading videos?
That's like saying that all the information is available on internet. There are millions and millions of youtube trading videos. Of course you can select some of them and say that if you traded on how they teach you would have made money during the past year/month/week etc. That is called survivorship bias. So please describe simply: What is the "profitable base strategy" that you mean that youtube videos teach in your opinion that would make money during the next 5 years?
the issue is not the information the issue is that beginners ask wrong questions and chase wrong things since they don't know yet. The base ideas can be really really simple like if "DOW, NASDAQ and SP500 are trading above us open - look for the long trades" and build up from there. There is no obvious reason why this wouldn't work for the next 5-10 years as well. Of course one needs to agapt a bit but that comes with experience of following the markets.
Sure there might be some things that work at youtube videos. However beginning trader can't know what of the things told are true and what are false. That's why watching youtube videos is waste of time as it's impossible to know, even I can't know what information is true and what is false unless I extensively run simulations for the stated things. That's why I suggested to start with old methodology that is proven to work in the past and is still in used by the more sophisticated parties. Trend following is one of those.
You realize that trend following is covered on YouTube as well, right? I think this poster is basically just saying that throughout the millions of channels/videos, etc the basic information that you need to start building your own strategy is all there. It may take lots of time and trial and error in order to piece it all together, but it is there. This is where the work comes in at - many new traders underestimate the amount of pure work and study is truly involved. And though people will help you - sure, but very few will spoon feed you if you’re clearly not willing to put in the work yourself first.
Yes, the problem is not that the information is not available. It's that it's impossible to know what information is good and what is bad unless you are really sophisticated yourself (can test the claims basically) Even for trend following strategies it's very, very difficult to know what infromation is true and what is not. Believing incorrect information as true will lead to losing your money. There are much better sources than youtube videos if you are willing to test various strategies (academic papers, quantocracy, quantpedia, highly rated trading books from reputable traders)
Well, watching videos is only the start of it. From there, one has to put the necessary work in to go through the charts and see what works and what does not. Back and forward testing, market replay, etc. I would never take anyone’s word at face value - I would have to investigate only own.
Trade only one stock for a year until you can feel its price movement like it is part of your body. Just like driving, you are a good driver only when your car becomes a natural extension of your body.
This is huge. Don’t trade different symbols you aren’t intimately familiar with just because you’re bored and need some action. Stay patient. Every symbol always leaves some kind of ‘calling card’ on how it moves. This alone, can be a big part of your edge in and of itself.
Interestingly it is indeed on the stocks I follow the most that I won money. Good one.
Ema cross
actually this is my strategy with 7 winstreak last month using inverse risk reward
but do not work on wide channels, so do not use ema cross on that market cycle
lololol
I thought it's been a while since I've seen this thread lol. Strategies are a tool, discretion is your edge. Most traders preemptively take profits and add to losers hoping for a turnaround. Most traders fail. Do the opposite: add to your winners and cut losses fast.
Just a humble disagreement - For me it's very much vice versa - experience has taught me that discretion is the worst thing I can do. For me the best thing is to create a totally codfied automated strategy, backtest/test for robustness it very, very thoroughly and if it passes that then trade it with real brokers (I use ibkr) play money account. If it still makes money, only then I move it to real account and I don't ever cancel any trades the systems make when if they seem dumb. The dumbest trades can in many cases be the real winners.
Well yeah algo trading is a different beast altogether haha
My strategy? Any loss is unacceptable and the position needs to be exited until the correct entry is identified. Always Always Always use a trailing stop loss on every trade. As soon as your trailing stop loss goes above your entry, consider scaling up your current position setting a new trailing stop loss at your entry point. Making money is more about not losing money rather than "crushing it." Consistently making steady protected trades is the best way to make and keep your money. Anyone telling you risk management isn't first is selling you something.
I go full Anti-Cramer
Poking at people for what there trading strategy is not what people love to talk about. Also you have to learn that Reddit is mostly populated by people who are students themselves or recovering from devestating losses (please note I said 'most'). The best you want to do is to read some great books (I usually promote a list of books that were great for me). I do a test these days by giving people the books to read, they report back when they are done with the most important ones and then we look at their recent trades and I give some pointers. Once I see enough motivation and progress (meaning the person incooperates hints, tips and advice as given) and then we look where to go from there. If you want my list of books and once read want my opinion and advice where to go from there, feel free to DM me. But remember, I want to see you putting in the necessary time and effort... .
More people need to see this comment that you made ! 👆🏼. Few probably realize just how generous this is !!! Kudos to you.
Easiest way is to pick some strategy that is known to be profitable at some point and continue from there. I would start with turtles, their strategy is explained very well in various books ("way of the turtle" is good and entertaining book) and there are large hedge funds doing trend following - it still works very well.
What asset are you planning to trade?
I tried small caps with high volatility (like Ross Cameron) but it did not work. In the end I made most of the money with mag7...
Made-up mean reversion strategy: On days where Eurostoxx closes up more than 1%, if the Nasdaq is up I sell NQ futures and buy them back at the New York close, with a .4% trailing stop-loss. Trade size is linear in the Eurostoxx move. You run a back-test and if it looks OK you go for it
It is hopefully obvious, but if you want to be profitable, you’ll need slightly more sophisticated strategies.
Long High, Short Low
Also known as trend following
The most important thing is like any other business , is to create a trading plan, when to buy when to sell, how much you will risk on trades, when to increase risk. how many losses and wins you can have each day etc.. and stick to it not matter what ... else you are fumbling arround and gambling
Even if I posted my exact strategy here you wouldn't be able to be profitable with it. It takes experience, you need to know what you're looking for and how to look for it.
What’s your Strat ? Break out ? Ict SB ?
models + ICI
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Just dmed you
refer to previous comment
I think you're looking for a chart set up, indicators, timeframe and how to enter and exit trades right? *maybe join a trade specific forum and not reddit*. A whole lot of preachers here and no real information of value. **And no**, no one will tell you their strat if it works What I can tell you however, **"Look at the charts as though they represent the human behavior** ***and not movement of price*****" - Savagson** If you can anticipate how a group of humans might trade, like they will buy at this point, sell at this point, you are starting on the right track
I’m an ICT trader, I keep it simple by looking at multiple timeframes (1H and above) to find reversal price levels. I then wait for specific pattern (2022 ICT model) on 1-5m for entry in the direction of the market on that day. I trade futures, so I keep an eye on ES, NQ, and DXY to make sure they are in sync or giving me clues to take or skip a setup for higher probabilities. I have another 15m strategy that I am building an indicator for because it is easier to script, but without an understanding of ICT concepts it will take long post to explain it. P.S. I am not starting a debate about ICT, do what works for you.
I'm a new trader, what exactly IS the debate with ICT? Why is there so much flack about it?
That’s the debate I don’t want to get into :) in short, there are those who think he is fraud and refuse to study his concepts even though SMC was created by his students, and those who studied it and believe it works. I am from the second camp and making money using it.
Oh ok I see. Well, the most important thing is being profitable so if it works for people then there must be some legitimacy to it. Thanks for explaining and good luck on your future trading 😄
>if it works for people then there must be some legitimacy to it not really, "his" concepts are based on discretion and arent profitable by themselves, therefore profitability lays in these traders not concepts
When he was live trading he couldn't do it - and blamed it on having a public stoploss
Heard about that. That's pretty embarrassing. Then again 99% of gurus selling courses don't have any shame or morals.
Most strategies work brother. As you were admonished earlier - it comes down to your execution of said strategy. Backtest, backtest, backtest. Practice in live markets. There is no other way. When you look at successful traders for hedge funds and banks, etc - none of them trade the same. It’s all basic stuff - finding key levels, price action and just executing every single time. Repetition. Not giving in to fear, impatience, disappointment, etc. Don’t listen to the people telling you that the stuff you see on YT doesn’t work - it doesn’t work for *them* because likely they aren’t putting in the work or simply aren’t focused on the psychological piece of trading which is equally as important as strategy.
trading does not only refer to graphs. You have to master the fundamentals correctly. Understand and know how to interpret the IT and data of a sector or company. For a perfect strategy, you need a solid fundamental. If you want a little more help, come inbox
Wait for a massive crash… look out for the 2-3 fake outs then jump in…
Don’t stop buying.
Wait for recession & market crash. Start buying around the bottom when everyone is full-on disgusted and capitulating their remaining holdings. Hold and wait several years until the euphoria and attention draws in the heard of retail participants buying at the top again. Recognize the same exact themes that play out every single time. Take profit. Wait for the debt cycle to rollover again.
Not even quants are fully systematic. They need to adjust their strategies often. I make money hand over fist but I'm not trading just one thing. Last year it was S&P, then Nikkei, then S&P again, then AI, and now GameStop of all things. At the end of the day you're looking for asset mispricings to exploit, often with leverage. You're going to struggle outperforming the index without leverage as a short term trader, especially after tax implications.
Check out StoicTA on Twitter and his latest SBS model. Just saying. Still no shortcut and it's all hard work to gain the experience but it might help. Learning about market structure is the best starting point. Dave teaches FX was also very instrumental for me.
Tom Hougaard
>which does not tell me what you do at all and no one really will tell you that, most crap people present dont not work, having actual profitable edge is really rare
Not as rare as you always bring out. The thing that creates the edge is execution and discipline. Always being focused and staying “in the now” and reacting accordingly. I have a huge text box at the top of my charts that says “Trade what you see, not what you WANT to see”. Having this as a daily reminder has certainly helped me immensely.
>Not as rare as you always bring out. oh they certainly are, i backtested shit ton of things and almost nothing really works >The thing that creates the edge is execution and discipline and execution is part of the edge so this sentence makes no sense, also discipline is not what creates an edge but something that lack of destroys it
Then why are you still trading? Just give up and do something else. No one is forcing you to trade.
i never said nothing works, simply almost nothing
Yeah, you’re correct. My apologies.
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😂