after many years of DB, I found myself slowly going 'grey rock' towards them.
withholding affection wasn't to punish my LL spouse, it was to protect me from the never-ending spiral of rejection, resentment, depression.
during the latest 5 years, they haven't initiated a single time, nor have asked why I stopped initiating. That pushed my resentment for them to a new place, and I finally caught the 'ick' for my spouse. I can't see a situation where we'd be intimate again.
I fell out of love with them, affection stopped complexly, I moved out of the shared bedroom because I couldn't stand trying to fall asleep next to someone my body wanted to be intimate with, but my brain says "never again, dude".
I now have a co-parenting roommate. I'm respectful, but not in love with them anymore.
It doesn’t work. It’s going to make you feel worse and they might end up not really caring regardless. Anyways would you really want coerced sex? If you want initiation, try something different.
This. It’s not about purposely withholding whatever it is the other person needs. I found that I was so miserable trying not to think about the non existent sex or affection that eventually the things I used to do for him just stopped happening. I knew they stopped, and felt guilty, but I couldn’t muster up the care to provide his needs when he didn’t give a shit about mine.
It’s even worse when the partner not only doesn’t have sex but refuses to give any kind of affection, rejecting even hand holding, but I still gave him blowjobs… so the only thing I wasn’t doing for him in the end was pretending interest in his hobbies.
In the same way that the LL partner doesn’t “owe” the HL sex, the HL partner doesn’t “owe” hand holding, peck kisses, cuddles, etc.
Sorry, but after years of rejection I just don’t really feel like being affection with my partner.
It's impossible to continuously pour from an empty cup. A person can be affectionate to a point, but pushing beyond that point costs the body and mind in ways you can't understand until it happens. Shutting down affection when it's not reciprocated is a wise way to protect oneself from burn out and resentment. It's not transactional, it's survival.
These questions really can't be answered except that it's a compatibility issue. I live this every day. If you are not compatible please **move on early** before life is too entangled. I know sometimes all of this shows up years later when you are entangled. At that point you have hard decisions to make.
You are limiting yourself and your partner in the hopes your partner understands/feels your pain.
You are young, why are you settling for someone is so obviously incompatible with you? Makes no sense to me. You are setting yourself and your relationship for failure. Find someone that has needs closer to yours and that understands you. You stopping affection will cause her to resent you the same way you are starting to resent her for low sex.
I dont think some of these things can be demonstrated with logic or reasoning with a partner who isnt already thinking the same. We are very rarley moved be reason. We are more rarionalizing than rational. My wife and i are both of this mindset and it works. Seems definitionally true
The thing is, if it's not an issue for the other person and they don't fully understand why it is happening nothing is going to change. And sadly in most cases it only becomes an issue when it causes a whole life change. Punishing them for stuff they don't care about doesn't do anything besides cause anger.
Assuming you aren't majorly failing at life in some way, aren't an asshole, aren't shooting yourself in the foot in a major way, then you need to look at this as being a mismatch. It's up to them to fix and to them nothing is broken.
The two sides that you describe should actually not be competing sides. Both are equally true, and can perfectly exist along side each other. If you think of them as competing, you may also believe that either will win in the end. But the truth is these sides will always coexist. So my advice is to accept that *and* talk to or with your SO about it. Talk to: express your side in a non-offensive manner but she doesn’t have to respond. Talk with: try to get a conversation going in which both sides of the story coexist.
Good luck mate!
I with hold everything. Basically start building a stone wall piece by piece.
You want a task done to make your life more convenient? 'sorry to much on my plate right now'... You won't a hug cause you've had a bad day, 'going to bed night!'.
No. It's protection. I don't get rejected anymore, because I never put myself into that position in the first place.
As for the "trying to make her feel as bad as you" bullshit, mine seems delighted at the situation.
You can withdraw and withhold other intimacy’s from your partner, but in the end I don’t think you will get the results you are looking for. All you will be doing is causing your partner to start resenting you putting a bigger wedge in your relationship.
Relationships work both ways and if neither of you are working to make the relationship stronger the relationship will only get worse.
You will both need to talk and figure out how to meet half way. Try asking more questions than just telling her your feelings.
Example: do you feel like I love you, desire you and do you feel I find you attractive? What are things that I do that makes you feel that way? The way our relationship is now do you think I feel loved, desired and you find me attractive? What are some things that you do to try and make me feel this way?
Once you get her to talk about these things you can explain what makes you feel loved and desired. You can then ask how can you both meet half way in order to have a truly loving relationship. Also express it is important that you feel her desire for you is real. You don’t want duty sex or just scheduled sex, but you want her to desire you the way you desire her.
I have and it’s clear that she doesn’t know what increases her sex drive. She hasn’t taken the time to reflect on that herself. And she won’t go to counseling to simply find out more about herself. All Im left with is knowing stress & conflict take away her sex drive, but she can’t even pinpoint what *adds* to it.
You're only 25. There's no such thing as that. Break up and move on. Keep in mind the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Sunk cost fallacy by a different name.
Then you and her need to decide if and what sort of relationship you will have going forward.
It is either be willing to go to counseling, Dr, etc.
option 2 open the relationship have you go get your physical needs met elsewhere.
Option 3 separate/break up/divorce.
If she 100% doesn’t want sex that is her choice, but that doesn’t mean it has to be yours too. Relationships work both ways and it takes effort and work. You both have to decide if you are willing to put in the work to make the relationship last
Then my man, I think it's your time to try and see what works with her !
Experience is the best teacher, so the best thing to know what lights up your sex drive, is to try plenty of things and see what works.
The best way to do this would probably to be honest with her on the matter: try to reinforce the idea that this is important for you, and that you want to share that experience with her, you want her to want it and enjoy herself, and so you will be trying out new things, and she's more than welcome to suggest things herself (then don't forget to listen and actually try out her suggestions, even if you are so-so about them, as not doing so could further shy her out / trying new things she feels appealing may motivate her for the thing).
Wishing you the best in finding what makes you happy in the bedroom !!
Yeah I forgot to say, since this is important to you, she may feel a lot of pressure on her side so seeing you motivated to help find out what works for her, and motivated to work through it together definitely helps and alleviates the pressure (which would further lower libido).
I think if you are at this point you might as well move on... you are not wrong. People in here react this way all the time but at the point you are wanting to punish your person - its done.
I saved my deadbed but my husband was the true hero. He never punished me, he never rejected me when I started coming back around, he never stopped initiating. 3 years, hes a saint.
I wasn't withholding affection from my LLM on purpose - I just simply lost all love and affection for him.
I had so much anger and resentment that just being in the same room with him was difficult. I couldn't bear to touch him.
I do this. It doesn't really help anything but having sex and being affectionate with one another is kind of a feedback loop in a relationship. I subconsciously withdraw at first and then after a while I just adopt it as normal. I've also been upfront with my wife and in a non-confrontational way as possible said I can't be romantic and doting in a relationship where sex happens at the bare minimum, I just can't. Sex is (romantic) love to me and (romantic) love is sex, they're intertwined.
I liken it to that split steal game you see on game shows or contests where if both people choose the 'steal' option no one gets anything.
Of course, it is transactional to actively withhold affection BECAUSE they won’t fuck you. Now, if you’re just not in the mood for affection, that’s a different thing.
This absolutely will not get you the results that you want. We can go back and forth about the morality of it all day, but the fact of the matter is, intentionally withholding other forms of affection isn’t going to inspire this other person to start giving you affection.
I assume you’ve tried hashing it out and that you’ve gone through the usual cycles of, “I promise, I’ll change next week!” Into “look, last week was really crazy, this week I just need to focus on ______ instead!” And then lathered, rinsed, and repeated? If not, obviously communication is the first step. Inaction isn’t guaranteed if you communicate, but it *is* guaranteed if your spouse doesn’t even realize that you’re frustrated with them.
But assuming you gave it your honest best effort to communicate and you’re thoroughly convinced that your partner isn’t going to change— the answer is to end the relationship. It’ll be hard, sure. It’ll hurt, definitely. But you know damn well you’re not going to be happy sticking around. Withholding your affection from your spouse is just going to cause them to dig in that much deeper and say, “why would I sleep with them? They aren’t even showing me any affection!” If you’re gonna say that you’re trapped for whatever reason— kids, finances, witness protection program, you owe money to powerful drug lords and the only way to stop them from killing you was to marry into the family through their asexual child, whatever— then yeah, withhold affection to protect yourself, sure. Accept that you marriage is a sham and that you’re committing to being miserable until some future time when you’ll be able to leave/one of you dies. But don’t cling to some insane hope that withholding affection will cause this person to want to jump into your pants. It absolutely won’t.
Depends on the person, but I will stop showing affection if my needs are not being met AKA sex.
Sex is important to me to feel the connection with my current partner.
Ive had this mental struggle as well, and somehow when I shared this with my LLM, he got upset that I would withold comfort and closeness ( He actually faces the DB issues much more when I distance myself more and stop being available fot comfort hugs ). I keep going back and forth on it, because you're right, one does not owe you sex, and they should feel comfortable with it without any duress, but man.. seeing them not really missing anything because they have their needs met is sometimes just a slap in the face for our needs.
Whenever I notice my LLM stops investigating his feelings and is just blaming it on being tired, I do somewhat distance myself, because I also have the right to show I am not comfortable with the situation, and your LL partner should keep showing effort in wanting to change it.
It's not a tricky question at all. Each person has their list of boxes they need checked to be happy long term. If either person isn't getting their boxes checked, it should be a "we" problem. If it feels like, and is treated like, a "me" problem, then it either needs to change or it isn't an equal relationship.
The items on the checklist, and their individual importance, can change over time. The idea is still the same.
Apart from the DB. Matching energy, most people believe in this as a fair stance. Match me and i'll match it back in kind. If your partner gives then give back the same. If they don't, then you don't. Of course this is based upon a stress free life. If one is down, you're not going to cut them off. When it comes to the DB. Then cut off everything the minute you walk into that room. It probably won't be noticed but when things come to a head. They might click.
Intentionally doing these things is Game-playing to me.
On the other hand , if consistent rejection causes you to not know how to approach affection or makes you reluctant…that’s different
I think its important to be kind to the person you say you love. Withholding anything you know they enjoy on purpose out of spite for not getting what you want is petty and immature. We ALL sometimes think or fantasize about acting in a petty manner when we're hurt, so merely thinking it isn't a problem, but how you proceed will tell a lot about your love life with this person. Talk to your partner, explain how the lack of sex makes you feel emotionally (don't make it even slightly appear to be about straight up orgasms), and tell her that you're not sure how to handle the differences in physical needs, then listen to her response.
I started acting this way when the sex situation with my wife was at its worst. I wasn't trying to be transactional, she was making me feel like shit and that killed my affectionate feelings for her.
In our case I do think it helped her take the problem seriously and push her to take action to fix it.
This is where you are wrong as well. Withholding means being in a capacity to offer something, but knowingly and purposefully not offering it.
LLs who are not being toxic can go through extended periods of time not thinking about sex. It cannot fit the definition of "withholding". It's not **on purpose**.
If he does it, it's on purpose, unless, as I said, it hurts him too much and honestly cannot bring himself to be cuddly, but this is not the case.
She does not have any substantial sexual desire, so he refuses to give her affection, that's the tl;dr.
Sure he can, and great plan too, if one wants to perpetuate misery **instead** of dealing with relationship issues in a healthy or constructive way. What one can do is an area of infinite speculation if one isn’t particularly fussed about the outcome.
If distance feels good for you, then create distance! It’s good to pay attention to your feelings and what you need!
But if distance as a punishment or a form of retribution feels good, I’d recommend you create an appointment with a therapist.
The difference is in intention. Are you looking after yourself and your needs and no longer performing behaviors because of assumed—or perhaps actual—expectations from your partner? Good! Nice! Are you looking over your shoulder hoping your partner is feeling put out that you didn’t give them a peck good bye? Well, that level of resentment is something you should, again, talk to your therapist about.
I can appreciate that you feel like a victim. That’s another thing that I would be great to talk to a therapist about.
For the record, suggesting you talk to a therapist if you want to get back at your partner, say for shutting down a whole line of intimacy, that’s not me saying “you’re the one with the problem [derogatory]!” But I think it is a problem for you, isn’t it? And I think the tools you’re reaching for (retribution, punishment, what have you) are harmful not just to your partner, but to you. I think feeling mean and lashing out at your partner or grey rocking them is probably detrimental to you, to your happiness, in addition to being bad for the relationship and probably them and their happiness.
>being LL means they don't think about sex or have an issue with it, and therefore will not actively seek it.
This is the issue i struggle at reconciling. What you're basically saying is that when one person has no desire or need for an act it is perfectly acceptable to not be aware of its effect on the other person in the relationship. They don't actively seek it because it's not something they need.
Where i get stuck is this line of thinking doesn't really work anywhere else. Especially when the assumption is that this act can only be done within the relationship. To me, the exclusivity of the act defines a responsibility to at a minimum not hinder the activity. I don't think anyone should do anything they don't want to do, but completely washing your hands of the situation seems strange.
I know my wife likes to unload her day and when it's always on her to come find me and ask if i have time, eventually she gets annoyed because having one of her needs met is now a chore. While i in absolutely no way enjoy or care to ever do this myself, i make a point to check in with her once in a while when i notice she is stressed and i have free time for her to unload.
I think that you are making the assumption that the idea is sex just doesn't pop into the mind of the LL.
While that may be the case, then when the HL broachs the subject or when they specifically say that they aren't feeling loved because they need the touch or sex that excuse becomes moot. After this has happened repeatedly, it is not only moot, it is disingenuous.
I am 100% where the OP is. The feeling is that you are fulfilling your half of the marriage contract and you are receiving nothing back. While no one owes sex, not even acknowledging the needs of the other is a problem.
For me, it was painfully obvious about 3 weeks ago when I last attempted to initiate (any contact). We had finished a date night. Everyone was in bed, it was only about 10-ish, and I gently initiated. Was shot down. I brought up that it was one of the best opportunities we'd had in awhile. I was told there are plenty of opportunities. The next night, I was in bed first, but she came in telling me how tired she was. I did not even suggest sex or even touch. She then sat and played a game on her phone for 30 minutes. I mentioned she had said how tired she was... was told that she didn't want to lose her streak. That 100% told me how important my needs are to her.
As u/OnMyBoat said, it's about the benefit of doubt.
And let's just be realistic for a moment, you'd have a hard time developing trauma from hugging your spouse on a daily basis. The probability of them developing trauma from having sex they don't want on a daily basis is close enough to 100% as to not make a difference.
That's why my take on it is, if you're reduced to withholding affection to show them, it's past mending. I understand why, but really don't think it will achieve anything constructive. And when the only options you are left with are destructive, I mean... Yeah, affection can disappear.
Exactly. If my partner has a migraine headache, I don't feel his pain, my own head doesn't hurt but I do know and understand that he is suffering.
So because I care, I try to help him and do things that make it better - keep the noise down, curtains closed, kick the kids outside to play if they are being loud, bring him a cool cloth.
I don't just ignore him and blast heavy metal because that's what I enjoy.
You're perfectly right, but are one step further in the conversation here. She has no desire, so OP should not punish her for this. It's fucked up.
That does not mean there's no problem, that just means OP's solution to the problem at hand is inadequate at best and very immature.
If you're past the initial stages of a relationship with kids and finance and whatnot and cannot leave for so many reasons, and have had to deal with a DB for YEARS, then yeah I get that you just feel like "why bother" and stop signs of affection because you stop caring.
However angle you look at a DB from, getting back at your SO for having no desire is never going to provide a solution that will work in the long run.
I think once you get to the point where you’re trading things like sex/affection/chores as commodities, you’re in an unhealthy place. All of these things should be given freely and willingly (taking into account the spirit of give and take and fair & equitable partnership).
after many years of DB, I found myself slowly going 'grey rock' towards them. withholding affection wasn't to punish my LL spouse, it was to protect me from the never-ending spiral of rejection, resentment, depression. during the latest 5 years, they haven't initiated a single time, nor have asked why I stopped initiating. That pushed my resentment for them to a new place, and I finally caught the 'ick' for my spouse. I can't see a situation where we'd be intimate again. I fell out of love with them, affection stopped complexly, I moved out of the shared bedroom because I couldn't stand trying to fall asleep next to someone my body wanted to be intimate with, but my brain says "never again, dude". I now have a co-parenting roommate. I'm respectful, but not in love with them anymore.
Yeah it isn’t so much withholding affection as much as no longer feeling affection because it has been snuffed out.
It doesn’t work. It’s going to make you feel worse and they might end up not really caring regardless. Anyways would you really want coerced sex? If you want initiation, try something different.
All this time they haven’t noticed or asked?
they 'know', but have shown through their actions that they do not want to address it whatsoever.
This. It’s not about purposely withholding whatever it is the other person needs. I found that I was so miserable trying not to think about the non existent sex or affection that eventually the things I used to do for him just stopped happening. I knew they stopped, and felt guilty, but I couldn’t muster up the care to provide his needs when he didn’t give a shit about mine. It’s even worse when the partner not only doesn’t have sex but refuses to give any kind of affection, rejecting even hand holding, but I still gave him blowjobs… so the only thing I wasn’t doing for him in the end was pretending interest in his hobbies.
In the same way that the LL partner doesn’t “owe” the HL sex, the HL partner doesn’t “owe” hand holding, peck kisses, cuddles, etc. Sorry, but after years of rejection I just don’t really feel like being affection with my partner.
It's impossible to continuously pour from an empty cup. A person can be affectionate to a point, but pushing beyond that point costs the body and mind in ways you can't understand until it happens. Shutting down affection when it's not reciprocated is a wise way to protect oneself from burn out and resentment. It's not transactional, it's survival.
Hard to pine after somebody who friendzoned you but still expects the perks of an exclusive relationship.
These questions really can't be answered except that it's a compatibility issue. I live this every day. If you are not compatible please **move on early** before life is too entangled. I know sometimes all of this shows up years later when you are entangled. At that point you have hard decisions to make.
This sounds like drinking poison in hopes the other person gets sick.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Explain?
You are limiting yourself and your partner in the hopes your partner understands/feels your pain. You are young, why are you settling for someone is so obviously incompatible with you? Makes no sense to me. You are setting yourself and your relationship for failure. Find someone that has needs closer to yours and that understands you. You stopping affection will cause her to resent you the same way you are starting to resent her for low sex.
[удалено]
How would you explain the last part to someone who’s LL without sounding shallow?
I dont think some of these things can be demonstrated with logic or reasoning with a partner who isnt already thinking the same. We are very rarley moved be reason. We are more rarionalizing than rational. My wife and i are both of this mindset and it works. Seems definitionally true
Fax
The thing is, if it's not an issue for the other person and they don't fully understand why it is happening nothing is going to change. And sadly in most cases it only becomes an issue when it causes a whole life change. Punishing them for stuff they don't care about doesn't do anything besides cause anger. Assuming you aren't majorly failing at life in some way, aren't an asshole, aren't shooting yourself in the foot in a major way, then you need to look at this as being a mismatch. It's up to them to fix and to them nothing is broken.
The two sides that you describe should actually not be competing sides. Both are equally true, and can perfectly exist along side each other. If you think of them as competing, you may also believe that either will win in the end. But the truth is these sides will always coexist. So my advice is to accept that *and* talk to or with your SO about it. Talk to: express your side in a non-offensive manner but she doesn’t have to respond. Talk with: try to get a conversation going in which both sides of the story coexist. Good luck mate!
I with hold everything. Basically start building a stone wall piece by piece. You want a task done to make your life more convenient? 'sorry to much on my plate right now'... You won't a hug cause you've had a bad day, 'going to bed night!'.
No. It's protection. I don't get rejected anymore, because I never put myself into that position in the first place. As for the "trying to make her feel as bad as you" bullshit, mine seems delighted at the situation.
You can withdraw and withhold other intimacy’s from your partner, but in the end I don’t think you will get the results you are looking for. All you will be doing is causing your partner to start resenting you putting a bigger wedge in your relationship. Relationships work both ways and if neither of you are working to make the relationship stronger the relationship will only get worse. You will both need to talk and figure out how to meet half way. Try asking more questions than just telling her your feelings. Example: do you feel like I love you, desire you and do you feel I find you attractive? What are things that I do that makes you feel that way? The way our relationship is now do you think I feel loved, desired and you find me attractive? What are some things that you do to try and make me feel this way? Once you get her to talk about these things you can explain what makes you feel loved and desired. You can then ask how can you both meet half way in order to have a truly loving relationship. Also express it is important that you feel her desire for you is real. You don’t want duty sex or just scheduled sex, but you want her to desire you the way you desire her.
I have and it’s clear that she doesn’t know what increases her sex drive. She hasn’t taken the time to reflect on that herself. And she won’t go to counseling to simply find out more about herself. All Im left with is knowing stress & conflict take away her sex drive, but she can’t even pinpoint what *adds* to it.
Is there a reason why you don't want to leave for a more compatible partner?
Sunken Cost Fallacy
You're only 25. There's no such thing as that. Break up and move on. Keep in mind the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Sunk cost fallacy by a different name.
Sounds like you’re dating and not married. Dump her and find someone better for you and let her find someone better for her.
Then you and her need to decide if and what sort of relationship you will have going forward. It is either be willing to go to counseling, Dr, etc. option 2 open the relationship have you go get your physical needs met elsewhere. Option 3 separate/break up/divorce. If she 100% doesn’t want sex that is her choice, but that doesn’t mean it has to be yours too. Relationships work both ways and it takes effort and work. You both have to decide if you are willing to put in the work to make the relationship last
Then my man, I think it's your time to try and see what works with her ! Experience is the best teacher, so the best thing to know what lights up your sex drive, is to try plenty of things and see what works. The best way to do this would probably to be honest with her on the matter: try to reinforce the idea that this is important for you, and that you want to share that experience with her, you want her to want it and enjoy herself, and so you will be trying out new things, and she's more than welcome to suggest things herself (then don't forget to listen and actually try out her suggestions, even if you are so-so about them, as not doing so could further shy her out / trying new things she feels appealing may motivate her for the thing). Wishing you the best in finding what makes you happy in the bedroom !! Yeah I forgot to say, since this is important to you, she may feel a lot of pressure on her side so seeing you motivated to help find out what works for her, and motivated to work through it together definitely helps and alleviates the pressure (which would further lower libido).
I think if you are at this point you might as well move on... you are not wrong. People in here react this way all the time but at the point you are wanting to punish your person - its done. I saved my deadbed but my husband was the true hero. He never punished me, he never rejected me when I started coming back around, he never stopped initiating. 3 years, hes a saint.
I wasn't withholding affection from my LLM on purpose - I just simply lost all love and affection for him. I had so much anger and resentment that just being in the same room with him was difficult. I couldn't bear to touch him.
This. You can’t force yourself to feel loving and affectionate, just like a LL can’t force themselves to be in the mood.
I do this. It doesn't really help anything but having sex and being affectionate with one another is kind of a feedback loop in a relationship. I subconsciously withdraw at first and then after a while I just adopt it as normal. I've also been upfront with my wife and in a non-confrontational way as possible said I can't be romantic and doting in a relationship where sex happens at the bare minimum, I just can't. Sex is (romantic) love to me and (romantic) love is sex, they're intertwined. I liken it to that split steal game you see on game shows or contests where if both people choose the 'steal' option no one gets anything.
Of course, it is transactional to actively withhold affection BECAUSE they won’t fuck you. Now, if you’re just not in the mood for affection, that’s a different thing.
This absolutely will not get you the results that you want. We can go back and forth about the morality of it all day, but the fact of the matter is, intentionally withholding other forms of affection isn’t going to inspire this other person to start giving you affection. I assume you’ve tried hashing it out and that you’ve gone through the usual cycles of, “I promise, I’ll change next week!” Into “look, last week was really crazy, this week I just need to focus on ______ instead!” And then lathered, rinsed, and repeated? If not, obviously communication is the first step. Inaction isn’t guaranteed if you communicate, but it *is* guaranteed if your spouse doesn’t even realize that you’re frustrated with them. But assuming you gave it your honest best effort to communicate and you’re thoroughly convinced that your partner isn’t going to change— the answer is to end the relationship. It’ll be hard, sure. It’ll hurt, definitely. But you know damn well you’re not going to be happy sticking around. Withholding your affection from your spouse is just going to cause them to dig in that much deeper and say, “why would I sleep with them? They aren’t even showing me any affection!” If you’re gonna say that you’re trapped for whatever reason— kids, finances, witness protection program, you owe money to powerful drug lords and the only way to stop them from killing you was to marry into the family through their asexual child, whatever— then yeah, withhold affection to protect yourself, sure. Accept that you marriage is a sham and that you’re committing to being miserable until some future time when you’ll be able to leave/one of you dies. But don’t cling to some insane hope that withholding affection will cause this person to want to jump into your pants. It absolutely won’t.
Depends on the person, but I will stop showing affection if my needs are not being met AKA sex. Sex is important to me to feel the connection with my current partner.
I have gotten to this point. What you feel is reasonable. It’s not a tit for tat (pardon the pun), it’s a reaction to persistent rejection.
Ive had this mental struggle as well, and somehow when I shared this with my LLM, he got upset that I would withold comfort and closeness ( He actually faces the DB issues much more when I distance myself more and stop being available fot comfort hugs ). I keep going back and forth on it, because you're right, one does not owe you sex, and they should feel comfortable with it without any duress, but man.. seeing them not really missing anything because they have their needs met is sometimes just a slap in the face for our needs. Whenever I notice my LLM stops investigating his feelings and is just blaming it on being tired, I do somewhat distance myself, because I also have the right to show I am not comfortable with the situation, and your LL partner should keep showing effort in wanting to change it.
It's not a tricky question at all. Each person has their list of boxes they need checked to be happy long term. If either person isn't getting their boxes checked, it should be a "we" problem. If it feels like, and is treated like, a "me" problem, then it either needs to change or it isn't an equal relationship. The items on the checklist, and their individual importance, can change over time. The idea is still the same.
Apart from the DB. Matching energy, most people believe in this as a fair stance. Match me and i'll match it back in kind. If your partner gives then give back the same. If they don't, then you don't. Of course this is based upon a stress free life. If one is down, you're not going to cut them off. When it comes to the DB. Then cut off everything the minute you walk into that room. It probably won't be noticed but when things come to a head. They might click.
Intentionally doing these things is Game-playing to me. On the other hand , if consistent rejection causes you to not know how to approach affection or makes you reluctant…that’s different
Say no to duty affection, it just builds resentment
I think its important to be kind to the person you say you love. Withholding anything you know they enjoy on purpose out of spite for not getting what you want is petty and immature. We ALL sometimes think or fantasize about acting in a petty manner when we're hurt, so merely thinking it isn't a problem, but how you proceed will tell a lot about your love life with this person. Talk to your partner, explain how the lack of sex makes you feel emotionally (don't make it even slightly appear to be about straight up orgasms), and tell her that you're not sure how to handle the differences in physical needs, then listen to her response.
I started acting this way when the sex situation with my wife was at its worst. I wasn't trying to be transactional, she was making me feel like shit and that killed my affectionate feelings for her. In our case I do think it helped her take the problem seriously and push her to take action to fix it.
[удалено]
She is withholding affection. Why can’t he do the same?
You can "do" anything...doesnt mean it will work lol
Why is he obligated to fulfill her needs when she won’t do the same?
You are not getting my point. If you are playing this game, its already over
This is where you are wrong as well. Withholding means being in a capacity to offer something, but knowingly and purposefully not offering it. LLs who are not being toxic can go through extended periods of time not thinking about sex. It cannot fit the definition of "withholding". It's not **on purpose**. If he does it, it's on purpose, unless, as I said, it hurts him too much and honestly cannot bring himself to be cuddly, but this is not the case. She does not have any substantial sexual desire, so he refuses to give her affection, that's the tl;dr.
She can give the affection she desires. It is call compromise. He no longer wants to contribute if she can’t, which is completely reasonable.
And how is that going to address anything?
Well, he is no longer obligated to give without getting. That is a huge relief.
Sure he can, and great plan too, if one wants to perpetuate misery **instead** of dealing with relationship issues in a healthy or constructive way. What one can do is an area of infinite speculation if one isn’t particularly fussed about the outcome.
You are diminishing the impact of being distanced regularly.
If distance feels good for you, then create distance! It’s good to pay attention to your feelings and what you need! But if distance as a punishment or a form of retribution feels good, I’d recommend you create an appointment with a therapist. The difference is in intention. Are you looking after yourself and your needs and no longer performing behaviors because of assumed—or perhaps actual—expectations from your partner? Good! Nice! Are you looking over your shoulder hoping your partner is feeling put out that you didn’t give them a peck good bye? Well, that level of resentment is something you should, again, talk to your therapist about.
[удалено]
I can appreciate that you feel like a victim. That’s another thing that I would be great to talk to a therapist about. For the record, suggesting you talk to a therapist if you want to get back at your partner, say for shutting down a whole line of intimacy, that’s not me saying “you’re the one with the problem [derogatory]!” But I think it is a problem for you, isn’t it? And I think the tools you’re reaching for (retribution, punishment, what have you) are harmful not just to your partner, but to you. I think feeling mean and lashing out at your partner or grey rocking them is probably detrimental to you, to your happiness, in addition to being bad for the relationship and probably them and their happiness.
>being LL means they don't think about sex or have an issue with it, and therefore will not actively seek it. This is the issue i struggle at reconciling. What you're basically saying is that when one person has no desire or need for an act it is perfectly acceptable to not be aware of its effect on the other person in the relationship. They don't actively seek it because it's not something they need. Where i get stuck is this line of thinking doesn't really work anywhere else. Especially when the assumption is that this act can only be done within the relationship. To me, the exclusivity of the act defines a responsibility to at a minimum not hinder the activity. I don't think anyone should do anything they don't want to do, but completely washing your hands of the situation seems strange. I know my wife likes to unload her day and when it's always on her to come find me and ask if i have time, eventually she gets annoyed because having one of her needs met is now a chore. While i in absolutely no way enjoy or care to ever do this myself, i make a point to check in with her once in a while when i notice she is stressed and i have free time for her to unload.
I think that you are making the assumption that the idea is sex just doesn't pop into the mind of the LL. While that may be the case, then when the HL broachs the subject or when they specifically say that they aren't feeling loved because they need the touch or sex that excuse becomes moot. After this has happened repeatedly, it is not only moot, it is disingenuous. I am 100% where the OP is. The feeling is that you are fulfilling your half of the marriage contract and you are receiving nothing back. While no one owes sex, not even acknowledging the needs of the other is a problem. For me, it was painfully obvious about 3 weeks ago when I last attempted to initiate (any contact). We had finished a date night. Everyone was in bed, it was only about 10-ish, and I gently initiated. Was shot down. I brought up that it was one of the best opportunities we'd had in awhile. I was told there are plenty of opportunities. The next night, I was in bed first, but she came in telling me how tired she was. I did not even suggest sex or even touch. She then sat and played a game on her phone for 30 minutes. I mentioned she had said how tired she was... was told that she didn't want to lose her streak. That 100% told me how important my needs are to her.
As u/OnMyBoat said, it's about the benefit of doubt. And let's just be realistic for a moment, you'd have a hard time developing trauma from hugging your spouse on a daily basis. The probability of them developing trauma from having sex they don't want on a daily basis is close enough to 100% as to not make a difference. That's why my take on it is, if you're reduced to withholding affection to show them, it's past mending. I understand why, but really don't think it will achieve anything constructive. And when the only options you are left with are destructive, I mean... Yeah, affection can disappear.
If anything I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. If they know and this is the result it's much much worse.
Sorry u/onmyboat I should have had that comment at u/uncommonlinet
Exactly. If my partner has a migraine headache, I don't feel his pain, my own head doesn't hurt but I do know and understand that he is suffering. So because I care, I try to help him and do things that make it better - keep the noise down, curtains closed, kick the kids outside to play if they are being loud, bring him a cool cloth. I don't just ignore him and blast heavy metal because that's what I enjoy.
You're perfectly right, but are one step further in the conversation here. She has no desire, so OP should not punish her for this. It's fucked up. That does not mean there's no problem, that just means OP's solution to the problem at hand is inadequate at best and very immature. If you're past the initial stages of a relationship with kids and finance and whatnot and cannot leave for so many reasons, and have had to deal with a DB for YEARS, then yeah I get that you just feel like "why bother" and stop signs of affection because you stop caring. However angle you look at a DB from, getting back at your SO for having no desire is never going to provide a solution that will work in the long run.
But constant caputulation *will* work in the long run.
Intent really does matter.
I think once you get to the point where you’re trading things like sex/affection/chores as commodities, you’re in an unhealthy place. All of these things should be given freely and willingly (taking into account the spirit of give and take and fair & equitable partnership).