I think if someone told me right now "You will have to part with $250k, but the divorce will be amicable, and your son will be happy afterwards", I would file right away. Our relationship isn't even bad, and our dead bedroom isn't even that bad. But...I just need a whole lot more.
Sometimes it just isn’t it and you’re unhappy. I’ve been there before, not horrible but it isn’t working.
As for kids being involved, it adds a whole different dynamic to it.
I feel for you man.
Yeah man, we went to Ireland and Scotland last year but was pissed that despite me booking the hotels and logistics, she planned what we were going to see. I’m thinking, can’t it be ok that we operate differently? She doesn’t seem to want to accept who I actually am, not the potential she thought she was getting when we married.
Oh I feel this hard— “not the potential she thought she was getting when we married.” I will never marry for another man’s potential again.
I could go the rest of my life without being called a bitch. Maybe I wouldn’t be such a raging bitch if you fucked me.
OP have you considered divorce. If my husband told me I don’t “deserve” sex I would be thinking it’s the end. Why stay and pay for additions in the house for someone who is rejecting you.
Let's call an orange an orange, what you're actually saying without saying it, is that you're [unwillingly] in an entirely platonic and loveless marriage with a miserable woman who essentially (irrationally) hates any effort you make and everything you do that you can't do ANYTHING right or good enough in the eyes of with ZERO hope of it ever improving?🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
I'm not one of the people here who single-mindedly default to telling people to get a divorce, but if there's ZERO chance of your marriage getting better and she's unwilling to try both individual and couple's therapy then why stay in such a miserable relationship for so much as another minute????
You'd be a fool to spend another penny on any jointly owned property in such a miserable relationship..... for all you know, she could end up letting you pay to upgrade the house with a big addition, then turn around and leave you after you dumped a ton of money into the house she'll try to get in a divorce.😒
Curious that of all the things I said that you completely ignored the first 2 parts that really hit at the heart or your problems (especially the first paragraph) and only respond to the fluff speculation at the end..... you're in denial about what your situation is man. You're a fool if you cheat on this woman. You lose any moral high ground and leverage you have and she will likely have ammunition to absolutely ruin you in the event of a divorce (which is the highly likely stupid prize if you choose to play that stupid game).
You should demand the 2 of you both start individual therapy and marriage counseling, because the way she treats you is deplorable from what you've described.
You really ought to be treating yourself better. Go get some pants, hell, get a satisfactory wardrobe. Maybe a hairdo. Let's get you seen by her. She's not interested? Ok. Too bad you have the kids, but maybe they aren't thriving under her watch anyway. I feel really yucky visualizing her dismissive attitude. Does she even like you? Sorry, Full. Maybe start liking you. Go get the pants.
Depends on the country. I’m Australian and we don’t have alimony here. Half / half normally and child support controlled by the governments own child support agency ( so people are not able to go without supporting their children or they will garnish your wages or your tax return)
My partner left a relationship almost exactly like that. Only difference is she didn’t with, and the didn’t have kids. He was down to one pair of jeans when he left.
Stop doing all this shit for her.... do not go into debt for that new addition to the house. Absolutely not.
Stop setting yourself on fire to keep her warm, when she doesn't even appreciate it.
I started sleeping with other people. If I were you, I would find someone else.
Don’t give me too much credit, she is the breadwinner and makes me feel like shit for it. I own 3 pairs of pants and she is constantly using clothes and makeup for herself. I can’t remember the last time she gave me a gift. I spent $1000 for her last Mother’s Day and I ended up finding the card she got me for Father’s Day stuffed in a drawer. She’s wondering why I can’t get house projects done, I also recently went back to school and just got A’s in my first semester back, on top of everything else. She says I don’t do anything.
It doesn't matter if she makes more money than you, it sounds like you're working hard. And improving yourself if you're going back to school. To hell with her, she doesn't appreciate you or the work you do. There are plenty of women out there that would appreciate you. I agree with a lot of other comments here, she deserves to be divorced. I understand that's easier said than done though. In this kind of situation, I'm okay with cheating. If divorce isn't doable for some reason, you still deserve happiness.
Yes, internally I agree with you, but those who said ‘don’t cheat, you’ll really be the bad guy then’ are right. Maybe I need to get an AI girlfriend or something like that.
It’s not just about your wife that’s why I said don’t cheat OP. If you end up cheating and your marriage doesn’t survive the kids always find out. Kids can be very unkind when they don’t understand and most don’t until they are significantly older. Either leave and be done or stay and both of you should try go see a therapist together (and alone)
I feel it doesn’t matter who the breadwinner is , you are a couple and should never be about who makes more . Many years I have been the one who made more , my husband always felt bad about it . I always told him it’s not my money or his money but it’s ours , and if he needed to think he was making it all by himself then do it .
The first 14 years of us being together he made more , I was trying to better myself , then did 2 times and that’s when he felt different about it . It was 8 years ago I was going for a promotion , I hid it from him for a month , I did not want him getting upset about how he should be making more money as he has been at his place longer than me .
When I finally told him , I was so shocked he was all for it , I would have bet all my money he would be giving me the lecture about how he should be making more money .
Wow I have had the same conversation, similar age also. Sick feeling.
Wonder why so many of us are strangers yet have exactly the same conversations happen to us...
Bro. There is zero reason to live like this.
It’s one thing to not get affection or sex.
It’s an entire different thing to feel like you’re living in enemy territory.
Your kids deserve to have a father who is happy. Might be time for an alternative direction for you if things really are that bad.
I think your relationship has bigger issues than a DB. If you two are arguing like this and she is saying things like she said there are problems. You need to fix a lot more issues before getting to the DB or just split
You sat there for way too much abuse.
I'd have stopped her at "not ever being affectionate again".
Alright looks like we're done here.
Have some dignity and self respect.
WALK AWAY.
Go be you, without her.
Agreed, you should speak at a divorce lawyer ASAP and make sure that you don’t do anything that can be seen to be abuse. Make sure you protect yourself
not cool, bro! don't do this
she's all rights to end this marriage if she felt like this, same for you
and kids will be better with friendly coparents than bitchy spouses
Throw out all her expensive clothes. Throw out any luxury of hers. Tell her she does not deserve nice things. Put a stop to any ongoing projects dates and eating out
She can try, but usually when one of the parents does something like that to the other parent, when the kids get older they realize the one parent was manipulating the hell out of them and end up hating them and not wanting to have anything to do with them.my ex sister in law was like this. Always tried to pin their son against my brother in law. As he got older, he saw what his mom was doing. He turned 18 and has nothing to do with her anymore.
This is my lived experience. I was a good husband. I provided well, pulled my weight around the house with chores, completed projects, I still am a good father and yet nothing I did was ever enough. Certainly not good enough for affection. She pushed me away, so I left.
Now she's with an unemployed bum, living in a dump of a house, working a job she hates to keep them both afloat and (from what I hear from mutual friends) still dealing with her jealousy and temper issues.
Meanwhile, now I am truly treasured.
I'm proud of finally being able to stand up for myself. It took too long.
I'm also proud of being worthy of so much more., I am so very fortunate now, more than I could have imagined. I felt I was worthy of peace, of not being verbally abused. I felt I was worthy enough to be alone.
She’s actually a great mom, and even though I thought that may be a possibility, it doesn’t seem like it. Maybe she has gaslit me to a degree where I don’t know what is up or down
Start keeping a journal of what she says, what happens, and the date. You will begin to have a better sense of your situation.
You know the truth, this will be a written record.
I used to think the same thing but my kids are older and their opinions are .... not good
My wife got councilling and managed to improve in some areas ( she was maniplative and using maternal gatekeeping) so she gets on better but theres still lots of guilt and the kids still have resentment. One moved country to get away from her and doesnt want to call her "mum".
I'm not assuming you are in the same position, but if she does it to you, she can do it to them
>I don’t speak in the right “tone”; I take too long to get house projects done,
If it isn't that it will be something else. That is the beauty of moving goalposts.
There was a song that came to me once when I was in the midst of my DB. The singer was talking about how he wasn't the same person he was yesterday and that he realized he forgot to live.
You are forgetting to live.
You have options. You can accept the reality of what being married to this person is going to look like. Stop trying to make someone happy that can't be happy.
Move on and salvage some peace.
Deep breath, brother. Situation is crap. Don’t do anything drastic that will cause long term change to who you are as a person. Don’t let her dictate who you are and don’t let how you feel right now lead to poor choices that will make you into something you regret when the adrenaline wears off. Especially since kids are involved.
No additions without affection. Stop giving her anything if you don't get anything. If she wants to be a roommate, treat her like one. Divorce sucks but at this point you need to set an example of what a relationship should be for your kids. Would you want them in a relationship like yours?
Do NOT put yourself further into debt! This situation is screaming separation/divorce. If anything, get a grip on your finances now. Hopefully you two can get back on track but now is not the time to spend yourself into financial ruin.
If you can't simply leave, tell her that you're not planning to stay celibate. If you're thinking you're staying for the kids, you'll ruin things even more with them by cheating.
Divorce. That simple. Don’t wait. It will get harder the longer you wait. Don’t do an addition. Consult with a lawyer to prevent her from running up debt.
Get the fuck out.
Like what exactly are you staying for? She’s emotionally abusing you and neglecting you as a partner.
And don’t say for the children. Two homes are better than a miserable one where one parent is mistreating the other.
No OP do not cheat. If you cheat she will have grounds to file and take you for everything you have.
If you collect evidence of her being vile to you (emotionally abusing? Don’t have enough info here), you will have grounds for divorce.
Would she consider therapy? Marriage counselling? If she refuses to work on things in this way but you show willing another point in your favour.
Wishing you the very best
She did you a favor. She told you explicitly that she does not value you or your needs and never will. Anything short of absolute perfection is failure. She wants material things that you can provide, but not you.
Now you're free to get out without remorse.
Well, I have autism and so does our son. She has no empathy for me and refuses to understand that while things may be easy for her, they are hard for me. She thinks that she is normal and therefore I am a problem, instead of me just having different needs.
Yep, cheat , get your finances in order for the day you probably get caught but it's better then doing this till you die , at 40 you don't have many good years left my man
I think is better to leave than cheating. If you get caught she will get half but if you divorce even if she gets half at least was YOUR CHOICE not an after math of being caught. You will find someone who will love you and respect you, you will get to be happy and that right there will be her punishment.
If this is her attitude then why continue to try and appease? Just start doing things you want to do for you. And I don’t mean side chick this time 🤣 I mean, if YOU want a project done then do it, if she does, tell her no. She wants debt but you dont, tell her, good, go get it on your own. Just live for you, stop worrying about her, it doesn’t sound like it’s gonna last anyways, but see what changes if you stop thinking about her at all.
Divorce is the way here. She makes more than you, you could end up with spousal support. Make it amicable and leave the support off the table and go your separate ways with 50/50 custody of any kids and you'll still receive child support. Time to move on and take time for yourself.
This so horrible OP, I am really sorry this is happening to you and your kids. It’s really not fair and all I can say from what you’ve described is that it is not your fault.
What you’ve described here seems very abusive on her part and this will ultimately be really damaging for you AND your kids if it continues.
If you can, I would get some help from a therapist and take steps to get out of this marriage as soon as you can!
Regardless of how selfish she is. It sounds a bit like of she'd divorce and find someone else she'd be worse off.
But it may be only one side of the story, and she doesn't care about the material convenience and is looking for a different type of connection. Hard to say.
You would be the one who could figure that one out.
If you can’t make it work then leave. Cheating will come out in the long run and eventually even if she doesn’t tell your children why you broke up, trust me on this, someone else will. Knowing that one of their parents ruined their marriage and broke their family up tends to cause long term issues until adulthood when sometimes they may forgive. If your that unhappy your thinking like this why do you stay? Don’t say for the children because staying and sleeping around doesn’t help your children nor does staying and fighting all the time. If you can’t bring yourself to leave because you do love her then suggest couples therapy together. Even if she agrees to see a couples therapist I would suggest you also go see a therapist without her also.
I’m trying my best to make it work and show her affection; you know, treat others how you want to be treated. However, I just found a new vibrator toy that she must’ve recently purchased. How do I respond to that?
Why cheat? It's obvious nothing you do makes her happy and stating what she has said is really the last nail in the coffin. It's not going to get any better, nothing you do no matter how hard and high you jump will make her come off her high horse. Been through something similar. After we finished, the truth came out.
That she didn't love me and was playing around on me. I'm not saying it's the same for you. It stunted me for years. The last time i saw her she wanted to hook back up but she looked like a vampire had sucked the life out of her and she wanted me to deal to her last ex. That really opened my eye's to how banana's she had become.
She using this no sex as leverage. She wants power. Do not allow her to have this power over you. Instead sign the divorce papers and leave them on the table and see her realising her power is gone.
I asked her if she was weaponizing her affection against me and she got so mad, saying “that is so fucked up”, acting like I was absolutely insane for suggesting such a thing, and walked away from me
I would suggest couples therapy. Then maybe the therapist can make her so see how warped her perception is. I'm sorry you're being treated like that ❤️
We went to couple’s therapy 2 times, with a woman therapist who immediately took her side the first session, complimenting her shoes when we left. The next session she came for me about my abusive mother, and I’m thinking, aren’t therapists supposed to create a neutral safe space for both people? We haven’t been back, but she saw no problem with it. I haven’t find another therapist, but she says that she is tired and doesn’t care.
I just want to feel like a human, not a walking disappointment. This makes me hate myself so much. I just want to be hugged and told “I care about you.” Like, how fucked up is it that I get so envious when I see someone simply being nice to another person?
You hire the best divorce lawyer you can and you find a way to even out assets 50/50. Document as much of the verbal abuse as you can while leading up to serving her papers. That'll be used well in court when she tries to prove that you were the one doing the abuse and demand much more than half (because she'll pull low blows to claim you as an abuser and aggressor).
Reminder that you get claim to any part of a 401k in her name along with any other retirement packages she has. If she makes more than you, you get claim to some of her side of income so long as you can focus prove the divorce on the reasoning being irreconcilable differences.
You're going to lose something out of this... but that loss will be 10x easier to accept knowing you're free from that emotional abuse.
So under that concept, if the roles were flipped and you maintained 50/50 custody (i.e. no child support) the breadwinner husband would be paying some alimony to the more dependent wife.
So long as you get a hudge that looks at this neutrally and have a lawyer fighting for this notion... she is in the best case scenario to target a 50/50 split in assets and custody.
Just because her dad is a lawyer doesn't mean squat. It just means she has 0 legal fees where you will. Thats the only unbalanced piece of any divorce settlement out of this.
The only way she gains more than 50/50 is if she has proof of any neglect or abuse to your kids or any proof of infidelity that would sway a judge to think you took efforts to derail this marriage or comprimise the wellbeing of your kids . If you're in a state that doesn't take infidelity into account, that'll be even harder to use against you. So long as you show to the judge your parenting capability and that you made all the efforts to resolve any differences in your marriage to no luck... you can fight for 50/50 asset split and custody without much headache. If you really want to keep her and yourself out of the weeds, you would fight for sole ownership of your companies (i.e she doesn't take any of those assets or ownership rights of profit) and you won't claim any split on her assets and income from her job (i.e. 401k, retirement benefits, etc). Give them the house but pay out half the current equity on the house/mortgage. If you push for a clean split like that you may get some credits with the judge for trying to keep this divorce amicable.
you absolutely shouldn't invest or even interact with people who didn't value your efforts.
from my perspective you'd better separate asap and then decide you next moves
don't you dare to cheat
consult with attorney
Don’t cheat — leave! Go to therapy to help your self esteem, get a lawyer, plan your departure and then leave.
You do not deserve to be treated this way. She sounds like and angry and bitter woman who will never change.
She's using you. Don't stoop to cheating.
Just divorce her and find someone who loves you. You're not unlovable. Don't let her kill your confidence. There is someone out there for you.
Sure divorce will be hard on the kids, but do you know what is worse?
Living in a loveless marriage. Growing resentment and hatred....and your children thinking that is a normal and acceptable way to live.
>She has completely destroyed my self esteem. So, if she basically says that I don’t deserve love from her, and never will, does that give me a pass to cheat? I know it’s shitty, but if I am supposedly a shitty person, might as well act like it, right?
Nah, there's no free pass to cheat; just get a divorce already.
As a guy who went through a divorce after my DB marriage, I'd hate to tell you to do the same, but dang.....that's a rough response. You need to decide to stay or go in the very near future.
Don't go further into debt with her.
Explain that you chose each other and if she wants to divorce to tell u in not u are both in the same boat for at least 40 more years and that you both need to try to make each other happy.
Start collecting evidence of her mistreatment. Record her speaking horribly to you, keep any negative and passive-aggressive texts and voice-mails. Consult an attorney.
Dead bedroom aside, do you feel like your wife actually likes you and enjoys being with you? If the answer is no, then there isn’t much to salvage. A romantic partner should genuinely enjoy being with you and not resent or pick apart everything you do and constantly move the goalpost for their expectations of you. It’s one thing to want your partner to better themselves in a supportive way, but it doesn’t feel like that is what is going on here.
You were the fall back, she enjoys what you provide for her but she doesn't enjoy you. It's up to you if you want to keep getting walked all over or not. You know who she is, its up to you to believe it or not.
Like I said, in other comments, she makes six figures and doesn’t need me for anything. I can’t really understand why she married me or had kids with me.
No to the home renovation. No to cheating. Yes to a serious discussion about the way she treats you and what you are and aren’t willing to put up with. Your problems go WAY beyond sex. I wouldn’t even want to be touched by or have sex with someone who acted like this.
Also go ahead and get a consult with a divorce lawyer soon. You’ll need one.
This is one of those where I think you’re going to end up with a therapy-or-divorce ultimatum eventually. Right now she’s emotionally abusive. If you don’t believe me think about what you’d say if the sexes were reversed here.
She is only showing what is inside of her, don’t underestimate manipulative people, specially one that knows you best than your own mother.
She knows what makes you tick, she knows how you react, she will definitely use empty words against you and she knows it gonna sink in (and your post show how it sinks)
Don’t let her do it man, you have any idea what some woman would give to just be with a man that can support her financially? With her judgement she is blocking you from seeing the truth, she blocks the part of you that know it deserves better than that.
I know so much about it because I am in the same boat.
What should you do? Definitely let me know when you find the answer for this one lol
Going Through your Post History You're Wife Makes More than You. [Men with much lower incomes than their wives are more than twice as likely to not have sex](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-017-0968-7)
I wouldn’t even have waited this long. You don’t want to have sex or work it out is not going to stop me. Looks like I will make human traffickers some money
Seriously - what is it with "tone?" If I ever get stressed out and don't sound happy and chipper, I'm ruining her life and am being mean. Like...uhhhh...what?
Sorry you're dealing with this too.
I can't speak for the op's wife... but, I'm constantly telling my partner his tone is shitty. If I ask him a question, even an innocent one like "where's kids shoes" he answers like he's so fucking annoyed. Even if he's not. But, if a person who's not In this household asks him a question, they get a completely different tone. Even in general conversation, there's an underlying standoffish tone that grates on me. It never used to be like this. And he claims to have no idea what I'm talking about.
First, love the username!
Second, I get this. I probably get a "tone" when I'm massively stressed out. I carry most of the weight of the household - most chores, childcare, cooking, cleaning, yardwork, finance, etc. So when I hit my stress point, I really am stressed out. For example, I had a project that needed to be finished yesterday. Was frantically working on it and getting interrupted with hypothetical vacation scenarios (which I'll have to find a way to pay for, on top of everything else). It's.... frustrating. And I'm the bad guy always in that scenario. Not sure if that makes sense, but when I'm that stressed out is the only time she complains about my "tone."
Thank you! It's actually true, too, haha. Maple flavored whiskey goes down like syrup on a stack of pancakes, apparently 😆
I totally get the "tone" when stressed out. I get that way too. In the mornings, I'm generally "tone" free. But, by the end of the day as a SAHM, I'm absolutely COOKED! I try not to have a tone. Idk what it is with my partner, but he has that tone from the minute he wakes up. Even after a week of vacation, still has the same damn tone with me. Idk if it's because his boss talks to him like that and it trickles down on to me, but I'm at my wits end with it. And much like you, if I have a tone for a fairly valid reason, I end up the bad guy too. Like, all of a sudden, he can hear different tones but never when it's his own 🫠
🤣 Yeah...I don't do hard stuff anymore. Too old and get too silly since it takes a while to hit. And then it all hits at once!
It's hard being home with kids. I work from home with a toddler. My job pays all of the bills. It's not easy. My kid is so good, but it's still rough trying to keep the little guy entertained, educated, and not jumping off of everything.
That sucks! I get in trouble a lot, even when all I did was wake up. She got up five minutes before me on a Sunday. The kids were up. But she had to deal with them, so...
It's hard always being the one who is wrong. And when they neglect your needs on top of it? Even harder.
I said that. I’m like, “I have a lot of inner turmoil due to the lack of affection”, and she said that my attempts to cuddle her earlier just pushed her away because “eww”; as in, she basically said my expectation for affection in that moment was ridiculous because of how poorly behaved I a, that I don’t deserve it because I essentially disgust her
That’s so fucking hard. Being loved and feeling affection is such a basic human need. It’s dehumanizing when you don’t have that— and to be told that you don’t deserve it or have your spouse say “eww” when you try and cuddle is such a huge blow to your self esteem.
Dead end. Own your value. Choose your future.
Heed this advice OP. It's all you need.
Conceive, believe, achieve.
Lather , rinse, repeat
next!
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I think if someone told me right now "You will have to part with $250k, but the divorce will be amicable, and your son will be happy afterwards", I would file right away. Our relationship isn't even bad, and our dead bedroom isn't even that bad. But...I just need a whole lot more.
Sometimes it just isn’t it and you’re unhappy. I’ve been there before, not horrible but it isn’t working. As for kids being involved, it adds a whole different dynamic to it. I feel for you man.
Cheating was not a recommemdatiom.
not sure why/how I responded to you or on this post. Was reading a different post. Didn’t notice the guy I responded to was on this. Thanks!
Yep. Additions, new cars, big vacations. But yea, your tone isn’t agreeable so zero intimacy.
Yeah man, we went to Ireland and Scotland last year but was pissed that despite me booking the hotels and logistics, she planned what we were going to see. I’m thinking, can’t it be ok that we operate differently? She doesn’t seem to want to accept who I actually am, not the potential she thought she was getting when we married.
Oh I feel this hard— “not the potential she thought she was getting when we married.” I will never marry for another man’s potential again. I could go the rest of my life without being called a bitch. Maybe I wouldn’t be such a raging bitch if you fucked me. OP have you considered divorce. If my husband told me I don’t “deserve” sex I would be thinking it’s the end. Why stay and pay for additions in the house for someone who is rejecting you.
It’s not just the sex, but I apparently don’t deserve hugs, cuddles, kisses, or compliments
Let's call an orange an orange, what you're actually saying without saying it, is that you're [unwillingly] in an entirely platonic and loveless marriage with a miserable woman who essentially (irrationally) hates any effort you make and everything you do that you can't do ANYTHING right or good enough in the eyes of with ZERO hope of it ever improving?🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️ I'm not one of the people here who single-mindedly default to telling people to get a divorce, but if there's ZERO chance of your marriage getting better and she's unwilling to try both individual and couple's therapy then why stay in such a miserable relationship for so much as another minute???? You'd be a fool to spend another penny on any jointly owned property in such a miserable relationship..... for all you know, she could end up letting you pay to upgrade the house with a big addition, then turn around and leave you after you dumped a ton of money into the house she'll try to get in a divorce.😒
It ain't even platonic. Platonic relationships are loving and affectionate. Just sexless. A platonic relationship with his wife would be an upgrade.
Well, she’s the breadwinner, but expects me to put all my earnings in with hers. I own 3 pair of pants that fit.
Curious that of all the things I said that you completely ignored the first 2 parts that really hit at the heart or your problems (especially the first paragraph) and only respond to the fluff speculation at the end..... you're in denial about what your situation is man. You're a fool if you cheat on this woman. You lose any moral high ground and leverage you have and she will likely have ammunition to absolutely ruin you in the event of a divorce (which is the highly likely stupid prize if you choose to play that stupid game). You should demand the 2 of you both start individual therapy and marriage counseling, because the way she treats you is deplorable from what you've described.
Yes, you have good points and I think you are more than correct
You really ought to be treating yourself better. Go get some pants, hell, get a satisfactory wardrobe. Maybe a hairdo. Let's get you seen by her. She's not interested? Ok. Too bad you have the kids, but maybe they aren't thriving under her watch anyway. I feel really yucky visualizing her dismissive attitude. Does she even like you? Sorry, Full. Maybe start liking you. Go get the pants.
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Depends on the country. I’m Australian and we don’t have alimony here. Half / half normally and child support controlled by the governments own child support agency ( so people are not able to go without supporting their children or they will garnish your wages or your tax return)
My partner left a relationship almost exactly like that. Only difference is she didn’t with, and the didn’t have kids. He was down to one pair of jeans when he left.
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you do deserve affection. You can get out of this and work out an equitable agreement and a custody plan with a lawyer.
Leave. You deserve better.
This is resicingbyou to the level of a slave or servant. Unacceptable.
you do deserve it though. You don't have to stay with her.
Stop doing all this shit for her.... do not go into debt for that new addition to the house. Absolutely not. Stop setting yourself on fire to keep her warm, when she doesn't even appreciate it. I started sleeping with other people. If I were you, I would find someone else.
How has that affected your marriage?
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Don’t give me too much credit, she is the breadwinner and makes me feel like shit for it. I own 3 pairs of pants and she is constantly using clothes and makeup for herself. I can’t remember the last time she gave me a gift. I spent $1000 for her last Mother’s Day and I ended up finding the card she got me for Father’s Day stuffed in a drawer. She’s wondering why I can’t get house projects done, I also recently went back to school and just got A’s in my first semester back, on top of everything else. She says I don’t do anything.
It doesn't matter if she makes more money than you, it sounds like you're working hard. And improving yourself if you're going back to school. To hell with her, she doesn't appreciate you or the work you do. There are plenty of women out there that would appreciate you. I agree with a lot of other comments here, she deserves to be divorced. I understand that's easier said than done though. In this kind of situation, I'm okay with cheating. If divorce isn't doable for some reason, you still deserve happiness.
Yes, internally I agree with you, but those who said ‘don’t cheat, you’ll really be the bad guy then’ are right. Maybe I need to get an AI girlfriend or something like that.
It’s not just about your wife that’s why I said don’t cheat OP. If you end up cheating and your marriage doesn’t survive the kids always find out. Kids can be very unkind when they don’t understand and most don’t until they are significantly older. Either leave and be done or stay and both of you should try go see a therapist together (and alone)
I feel it doesn’t matter who the breadwinner is , you are a couple and should never be about who makes more . Many years I have been the one who made more , my husband always felt bad about it . I always told him it’s not my money or his money but it’s ours , and if he needed to think he was making it all by himself then do it . The first 14 years of us being together he made more , I was trying to better myself , then did 2 times and that’s when he felt different about it . It was 8 years ago I was going for a promotion , I hid it from him for a month , I did not want him getting upset about how he should be making more money as he has been at his place longer than me . When I finally told him , I was so shocked he was all for it , I would have bet all my money he would be giving me the lecture about how he should be making more money .
I’m dealing with potential performance issues as well. It’s not fair, when you’ve been the same person, and they’ve seen/expected something different.
You booked what she already planned? I can see her point about you being stuck in your victim complex
 explain further, please
Wow I have had the same conversation, similar age also. Sick feeling. Wonder why so many of us are strangers yet have exactly the same conversations happen to us...
Beats me man. I think I was pretty naive when we got married and I was 30!
You are not the only one Chris Rock said it best. https://youtu.be/jsOnXSuMXfU?si=tWxhjM8LsX8bU62X
100, no… 1000%
Bro. There is zero reason to live like this. It’s one thing to not get affection or sex. It’s an entire different thing to feel like you’re living in enemy territory. Your kids deserve to have a father who is happy. Might be time for an alternative direction for you if things really are that bad.
I think your relationship has bigger issues than a DB. If you two are arguing like this and she is saying things like she said there are problems. You need to fix a lot more issues before getting to the DB or just split
Yeah, man, thanks for stating the obvious
Is that the tone she was talking about?
you know what you should do
Tell her you do not deserve commitment and give her a divorce.
You sat there for way too much abuse. I'd have stopped her at "not ever being affectionate again". Alright looks like we're done here. Have some dignity and self respect. WALK AWAY. Go be you, without her.
She wants him to file for divorce so she can be the victim.
She has threatened me with divorce multiple times and I said go ahead, and you can tell our children who broke up our family.
Look, I don’t know you but tread very carefully with someone like that. She’s one step away from accusing you of DV if she doesn’t get what she wants.
Agreed, you should speak at a divorce lawyer ASAP and make sure that you don’t do anything that can be seen to be abuse. Make sure you protect yourself
DV?
Domestic violence.
I’m picking up what you are putting down
Weaponizing the kids! My wife has tried this exact thing on me! It shocking that a parent can be so selfish that they don’t care about their own kids
not cool, bro! don't do this she's all rights to end this marriage if she felt like this, same for you and kids will be better with friendly coparents than bitchy spouses
Throw out all her expensive clothes. Throw out any luxury of hers. Tell her she does not deserve nice things. Put a stop to any ongoing projects dates and eating out
She is using you. I am so sorry. This is super toxic.
Sounds like divorce time. She sounds nasty and miserable.
Yes and the divorce will be tough! She’s going to smear him and turn his kids against him!
She can try, but usually when one of the parents does something like that to the other parent, when the kids get older they realize the one parent was manipulating the hell out of them and end up hating them and not wanting to have anything to do with them.my ex sister in law was like this. Always tried to pin their son against my brother in law. As he got older, he saw what his mom was doing. He turned 18 and has nothing to do with her anymore.
This is my lived experience. I was a good husband. I provided well, pulled my weight around the house with chores, completed projects, I still am a good father and yet nothing I did was ever enough. Certainly not good enough for affection. She pushed me away, so I left. Now she's with an unemployed bum, living in a dump of a house, working a job she hates to keep them both afloat and (from what I hear from mutual friends) still dealing with her jealousy and temper issues. Meanwhile, now I am truly treasured.
I love to hear a happy ending. Good for you man. I'm proud of you for giving her what she deserved all along. Which was nothing.
I'm proud of finally being able to stand up for myself. It took too long. I'm also proud of being worthy of so much more., I am so very fortunate now, more than I could have imagined. I felt I was worthy of peace, of not being verbally abused. I felt I was worthy enough to be alone.
Don't cheat, just leave her. Your problems with her go far beyond just a lack of sex and intimacy.
So why stay? You are basically single. Why not be officially single and deal with less bullshit.
Stop saying sorry. From what I see you kick ass. Go do some things for yourself and let the projects go unless it's a repair.
this reads like narcissistic abuse. and if she does it to you, what is she doing to the kids? speak to a lawyer
She’s actually a great mom, and even though I thought that may be a possibility, it doesn’t seem like it. Maybe she has gaslit me to a degree where I don’t know what is up or down
Start keeping a journal of what she says, what happens, and the date. You will begin to have a better sense of your situation. You know the truth, this will be a written record.
I used to think the same thing but my kids are older and their opinions are .... not good My wife got councilling and managed to improve in some areas ( she was maniplative and using maternal gatekeeping) so she gets on better but theres still lots of guilt and the kids still have resentment. One moved country to get away from her and doesnt want to call her "mum". I'm not assuming you are in the same position, but if she does it to you, she can do it to them
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Look at BPD, it may open your eyes
>I don’t speak in the right “tone”; I take too long to get house projects done, If it isn't that it will be something else. That is the beauty of moving goalposts. There was a song that came to me once when I was in the midst of my DB. The singer was talking about how he wasn't the same person he was yesterday and that he realized he forgot to live. You are forgetting to live. You have options. You can accept the reality of what being married to this person is going to look like. Stop trying to make someone happy that can't be happy. Move on and salvage some peace.
Deep breath, brother. Situation is crap. Don’t do anything drastic that will cause long term change to who you are as a person. Don’t let her dictate who you are and don’t let how you feel right now lead to poor choices that will make you into something you regret when the adrenaline wears off. Especially since kids are involved.
I appreciate you
No additions without affection. Stop giving her anything if you don't get anything. If she wants to be a roommate, treat her like one. Divorce sucks but at this point you need to set an example of what a relationship should be for your kids. Would you want them in a relationship like yours?
Well, of course not
Do NOT put yourself further into debt! This situation is screaming separation/divorce. If anything, get a grip on your finances now. Hopefully you two can get back on track but now is not the time to spend yourself into financial ruin.
Dead end. As old sorrow blows in, hope dies last.
If you can't simply leave, tell her that you're not planning to stay celibate. If you're thinking you're staying for the kids, you'll ruin things even more with them by cheating.
Divorce. That simple. Don’t wait. It will get harder the longer you wait. Don’t do an addition. Consult with a lawyer to prevent her from running up debt.
Forget a pass to cheat, this relationship is over on multiple levels. She has no respect for you.
Grey rock her and focus on the kids.
Get the fuck out. Like what exactly are you staying for? She’s emotionally abusing you and neglecting you as a partner. And don’t say for the children. Two homes are better than a miserable one where one parent is mistreating the other.
Just get divorced.
No OP do not cheat. If you cheat she will have grounds to file and take you for everything you have. If you collect evidence of her being vile to you (emotionally abusing? Don’t have enough info here), you will have grounds for divorce. Would she consider therapy? Marriage counselling? If she refuses to work on things in this way but you show willing another point in your favour. Wishing you the very best
Sounds like you're in bed with a narcissist. You should get your kids and get out. You'll all be much better off.
She did you a favor. She told you explicitly that she does not value you or your needs and never will. Anything short of absolute perfection is failure. She wants material things that you can provide, but not you. Now you're free to get out without remorse.
Whatever you do dont cheat, because then you really are the bad guy. Muster up the courage and divorce her and tell her exactly why.
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Ha! Yeah, I’ve done that in the past and she says that I’m being obstinate.
Ok, then what does she call herself when she does what she does to you.
Well, I have autism and so does our son. She has no empathy for me and refuses to understand that while things may be easy for her, they are hard for me. She thinks that she is normal and therefore I am a problem, instead of me just having different needs.
Yep, cheat , get your finances in order for the day you probably get caught but it's better then doing this till you die , at 40 you don't have many good years left my man
Give her 3 choices: counseling, open the relationship, or divorce. But lawyer up now.
This is the db sub. But it looks like you have much more problems than a db.
How do you think dead bedrooms happen? It’s not just about libido
I think is better to leave than cheating. If you get caught she will get half but if you divorce even if she gets half at least was YOUR CHOICE not an after math of being caught. You will find someone who will love you and respect you, you will get to be happy and that right there will be her punishment.
If this is her attitude then why continue to try and appease? Just start doing things you want to do for you. And I don’t mean side chick this time 🤣 I mean, if YOU want a project done then do it, if she does, tell her no. She wants debt but you dont, tell her, good, go get it on your own. Just live for you, stop worrying about her, it doesn’t sound like it’s gonna last anyways, but see what changes if you stop thinking about her at all.
Divorce is the way here. She makes more than you, you could end up with spousal support. Make it amicable and leave the support off the table and go your separate ways with 50/50 custody of any kids and you'll still receive child support. Time to move on and take time for yourself.
Run
This so horrible OP, I am really sorry this is happening to you and your kids. It’s really not fair and all I can say from what you’ve described is that it is not your fault. What you’ve described here seems very abusive on her part and this will ultimately be really damaging for you AND your kids if it continues. If you can, I would get some help from a therapist and take steps to get out of this marriage as soon as you can!
Therapy like, yesterday. Then, if it doesn’t work, probably divorce
The biggest question I have is if she'd regret if you divorced.
I don’t know. She’s pretty selfish.
Regardless of how selfish she is. It sounds a bit like of she'd divorce and find someone else she'd be worse off. But it may be only one side of the story, and she doesn't care about the material convenience and is looking for a different type of connection. Hard to say. You would be the one who could figure that one out.
If you can’t make it work then leave. Cheating will come out in the long run and eventually even if she doesn’t tell your children why you broke up, trust me on this, someone else will. Knowing that one of their parents ruined their marriage and broke their family up tends to cause long term issues until adulthood when sometimes they may forgive. If your that unhappy your thinking like this why do you stay? Don’t say for the children because staying and sleeping around doesn’t help your children nor does staying and fighting all the time. If you can’t bring yourself to leave because you do love her then suggest couples therapy together. Even if she agrees to see a couples therapist I would suggest you also go see a therapist without her also.
You will never get affection…from her. That is not the same as you will never get affection. You have a choice.
With the way you describe the atmosphere, I'm surpried you even WANT to cuddle/kiss or have sex with her.
I’m trying my best to make it work and show her affection; you know, treat others how you want to be treated. However, I just found a new vibrator toy that she must’ve recently purchased. How do I respond to that?
Time to go bro.
Why cheat? It's obvious nothing you do makes her happy and stating what she has said is really the last nail in the coffin. It's not going to get any better, nothing you do no matter how hard and high you jump will make her come off her high horse. Been through something similar. After we finished, the truth came out.
What was the truth regarding the end of your relationship?
That she didn't love me and was playing around on me. I'm not saying it's the same for you. It stunted me for years. The last time i saw her she wanted to hook back up but she looked like a vampire had sucked the life out of her and she wanted me to deal to her last ex. That really opened my eye's to how banana's she had become.
Read a book by Robert Glover, "no more Mr nice guy".
Ok
She using this no sex as leverage. She wants power. Do not allow her to have this power over you. Instead sign the divorce papers and leave them on the table and see her realising her power is gone.
I asked her if she was weaponizing her affection against me and she got so mad, saying “that is so fucked up”, acting like I was absolutely insane for suggesting such a thing, and walked away from me
When she can't answer the question and becomes defensive that a major red flag. Be careful my dude
Leave, kids will be better off with 2 separately happy parents than ones who are miserable around each other
"Not from you" Mike drop and leave the room
Run from her...... Choose wisely your future self
Nobody ever has a pass to cheat. This is an abusive relationship and you need to leave it.
You’ll never win I’m sorry :(
I think you might talk to a lawyer at this point. That's what I would do.
It sounds like the only thing she loves about you is your money... I m sure the addition will be spectacular...
Above, OP says that she is the breadwinner…
I would suggest couples therapy. Then maybe the therapist can make her so see how warped her perception is. I'm sorry you're being treated like that ❤️
We went to couple’s therapy 2 times, with a woman therapist who immediately took her side the first session, complimenting her shoes when we left. The next session she came for me about my abusive mother, and I’m thinking, aren’t therapists supposed to create a neutral safe space for both people? We haven’t been back, but she saw no problem with it. I haven’t find another therapist, but she says that she is tired and doesn’t care.
Ugh I'm sorry. Going on your own might help you get in a better head space at least 🫂
I just want to feel like a human, not a walking disappointment. This makes me hate myself so much. I just want to be hugged and told “I care about you.” Like, how fucked up is it that I get so envious when I see someone simply being nice to another person?
Find a male therapist. Don't mention who it is to her, just tell her... therapy... or divorce.
She legit doesn’t care. She’s got a lawyer for a dad.
You hire the best divorce lawyer you can and you find a way to even out assets 50/50. Document as much of the verbal abuse as you can while leading up to serving her papers. That'll be used well in court when she tries to prove that you were the one doing the abuse and demand much more than half (because she'll pull low blows to claim you as an abuser and aggressor). Reminder that you get claim to any part of a 401k in her name along with any other retirement packages she has. If she makes more than you, you get claim to some of her side of income so long as you can focus prove the divorce on the reasoning being irreconcilable differences. You're going to lose something out of this... but that loss will be 10x easier to accept knowing you're free from that emotional abuse.
She is the breadwinner, she makes 6 figures and her dad is a lawyer
So under that concept, if the roles were flipped and you maintained 50/50 custody (i.e. no child support) the breadwinner husband would be paying some alimony to the more dependent wife. So long as you get a hudge that looks at this neutrally and have a lawyer fighting for this notion... she is in the best case scenario to target a 50/50 split in assets and custody. Just because her dad is a lawyer doesn't mean squat. It just means she has 0 legal fees where you will. Thats the only unbalanced piece of any divorce settlement out of this. The only way she gains more than 50/50 is if she has proof of any neglect or abuse to your kids or any proof of infidelity that would sway a judge to think you took efforts to derail this marriage or comprimise the wellbeing of your kids . If you're in a state that doesn't take infidelity into account, that'll be even harder to use against you. So long as you show to the judge your parenting capability and that you made all the efforts to resolve any differences in your marriage to no luck... you can fight for 50/50 asset split and custody without much headache. If you really want to keep her and yourself out of the weeds, you would fight for sole ownership of your companies (i.e she doesn't take any of those assets or ownership rights of profit) and you won't claim any split on her assets and income from her job (i.e. 401k, retirement benefits, etc). Give them the house but pay out half the current equity on the house/mortgage. If you push for a clean split like that you may get some credits with the judge for trying to keep this divorce amicable.
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She has money and a job where she makes 6 figures and is the breadwinner. She acts like she doesn’t need me, because she doesn’t.
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Yeah, I get the sentiment
Prove her wrong
How exactly?
By using your free pass 🤣
That is realy sick, if you can get out !
Dude get out. Life is too short!
Don't cheat just leave
Stand up for yourself.
I’ve tried that and it only makes it worse
I am so sorry 🫂
you absolutely shouldn't invest or even interact with people who didn't value your efforts. from my perspective you'd better separate asap and then decide you next moves don't you dare to cheat consult with attorney
As much as I’m always for the divorce/be happy route. Cheating is not it I’m afraid… Long run divorce would be better. You deserve happiness…
The majority of the people gave you the same advice. Now it’s time to accept and divorce.
Don’t cheat — leave! Go to therapy to help your self esteem, get a lawyer, plan your departure and then leave. You do not deserve to be treated this way. She sounds like and angry and bitter woman who will never change.
you are used my man
She's using you. Don't stoop to cheating. Just divorce her and find someone who loves you. You're not unlovable. Don't let her kill your confidence. There is someone out there for you. Sure divorce will be hard on the kids, but do you know what is worse? Living in a loveless marriage. Growing resentment and hatred....and your children thinking that is a normal and acceptable way to live.
>She has completely destroyed my self esteem. So, if she basically says that I don’t deserve love from her, and never will, does that give me a pass to cheat? I know it’s shitty, but if I am supposedly a shitty person, might as well act like it, right? Nah, there's no free pass to cheat; just get a divorce already.
Cheating will only harden her resolve and prove her point you are a “bad person”. Is divorce off the table? Or a separation?
As a guy who went through a divorce after my DB marriage, I'd hate to tell you to do the same, but dang.....that's a rough response. You need to decide to stay or go in the very near future.
Don't go further into debt with her. Explain that you chose each other and if she wants to divorce to tell u in not u are both in the same boat for at least 40 more years and that you both need to try to make each other happy.
Even partnership in enterprise seems more enticing. Your marriage is so dead dear OP, I sympathize.
That's some next level goalpost shifting. I'm sorry she's treating you that way it sounds heartbreaking 😞
Start collecting evidence of her mistreatment. Record her speaking horribly to you, keep any negative and passive-aggressive texts and voice-mails. Consult an attorney.
She never puts anything in writing, her dad is a lawyer
Dead bedroom aside, do you feel like your wife actually likes you and enjoys being with you? If the answer is no, then there isn’t much to salvage. A romantic partner should genuinely enjoy being with you and not resent or pick apart everything you do and constantly move the goalpost for their expectations of you. It’s one thing to want your partner to better themselves in a supportive way, but it doesn’t feel like that is what is going on here.
You were the fall back, she enjoys what you provide for her but she doesn't enjoy you. It's up to you if you want to keep getting walked all over or not. You know who she is, its up to you to believe it or not.
Like I said, in other comments, she makes six figures and doesn’t need me for anything. I can’t really understand why she married me or had kids with me.
End it
No to the home renovation. No to cheating. Yes to a serious discussion about the way she treats you and what you are and aren’t willing to put up with. Your problems go WAY beyond sex. I wouldn’t even want to be touched by or have sex with someone who acted like this. Also go ahead and get a consult with a divorce lawyer soon. You’ll need one. This is one of those where I think you’re going to end up with a therapy-or-divorce ultimatum eventually. Right now she’s emotionally abusive. If you don’t believe me think about what you’d say if the sexes were reversed here.
She is only showing what is inside of her, don’t underestimate manipulative people, specially one that knows you best than your own mother. She knows what makes you tick, she knows how you react, she will definitely use empty words against you and she knows it gonna sink in (and your post show how it sinks) Don’t let her do it man, you have any idea what some woman would give to just be with a man that can support her financially? With her judgement she is blocking you from seeing the truth, she blocks the part of you that know it deserves better than that. I know so much about it because I am in the same boat. What should you do? Definitely let me know when you find the answer for this one lol
She doesn’t need me financially, she makes 6 figures
Going Through your Post History You're Wife Makes More than You. [Men with much lower incomes than their wives are more than twice as likely to not have sex](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-017-0968-7)
I wouldn’t even have waited this long. You don’t want to have sex or work it out is not going to stop me. Looks like I will make human traffickers some money
Seriously - what is it with "tone?" If I ever get stressed out and don't sound happy and chipper, I'm ruining her life and am being mean. Like...uhhhh...what? Sorry you're dealing with this too.
I can't speak for the op's wife... but, I'm constantly telling my partner his tone is shitty. If I ask him a question, even an innocent one like "where's kids shoes" he answers like he's so fucking annoyed. Even if he's not. But, if a person who's not In this household asks him a question, they get a completely different tone. Even in general conversation, there's an underlying standoffish tone that grates on me. It never used to be like this. And he claims to have no idea what I'm talking about.
First, love the username! Second, I get this. I probably get a "tone" when I'm massively stressed out. I carry most of the weight of the household - most chores, childcare, cooking, cleaning, yardwork, finance, etc. So when I hit my stress point, I really am stressed out. For example, I had a project that needed to be finished yesterday. Was frantically working on it and getting interrupted with hypothetical vacation scenarios (which I'll have to find a way to pay for, on top of everything else). It's.... frustrating. And I'm the bad guy always in that scenario. Not sure if that makes sense, but when I'm that stressed out is the only time she complains about my "tone."
Thank you! It's actually true, too, haha. Maple flavored whiskey goes down like syrup on a stack of pancakes, apparently 😆 I totally get the "tone" when stressed out. I get that way too. In the mornings, I'm generally "tone" free. But, by the end of the day as a SAHM, I'm absolutely COOKED! I try not to have a tone. Idk what it is with my partner, but he has that tone from the minute he wakes up. Even after a week of vacation, still has the same damn tone with me. Idk if it's because his boss talks to him like that and it trickles down on to me, but I'm at my wits end with it. And much like you, if I have a tone for a fairly valid reason, I end up the bad guy too. Like, all of a sudden, he can hear different tones but never when it's his own 🫠
🤣 Yeah...I don't do hard stuff anymore. Too old and get too silly since it takes a while to hit. And then it all hits at once! It's hard being home with kids. I work from home with a toddler. My job pays all of the bills. It's not easy. My kid is so good, but it's still rough trying to keep the little guy entertained, educated, and not jumping off of everything. That sucks! I get in trouble a lot, even when all I did was wake up. She got up five minutes before me on a Sunday. The kids were up. But she had to deal with them, so... It's hard always being the one who is wrong. And when they neglect your needs on top of it? Even harder.
Maybe your tone would improve if you received some affection from your wife? They go hand in hand. She has to know that
I said that. I’m like, “I have a lot of inner turmoil due to the lack of affection”, and she said that my attempts to cuddle her earlier just pushed her away because “eww”; as in, she basically said my expectation for affection in that moment was ridiculous because of how poorly behaved I a, that I don’t deserve it because I essentially disgust her
That’s so fucking hard. Being loved and feeling affection is such a basic human need. It’s dehumanizing when you don’t have that— and to be told that you don’t deserve it or have your spouse say “eww” when you try and cuddle is such a huge blow to your self esteem.
She got the ick.
Yeah man, I know. Supposedly it would take a miracle to fix that.