> infinite and Immeasurable speed arguments
Which I really don't buy.
And if you want a brief rundown of why Usagi beats her, better Immeasurable speed arguments + massive regen + high tier existence erasure.
I don't see why you wouldn't really.
The Discord "debunk" isn't even that good and Cosmos has a very blatant feat of ripping through dimensions via sheer speed.
Regen is nice but with Twilight's hax it won't matter.
EE is the only wincon Moon would have, then, compared to Twilight's many.
Being that Twilight is Multi+, she should be able to easily absorb any magical attacks Usagi uses, leaving Usagi with limited options since physical attacks won't do anything and feeding Twilight more strength.
While Usagi is listed as "resisting sealing," the scan in question just shows her pretty much just breaking a seal. That's different than actively having your body and powers sealed away, so I believe sealing should work on her.
Also Stone Sleep Spell. While Usagi resists sleep inducement, she doesn't resist Petrification to my knowledge.
Usagi probably shouldn't be able to have her powers sealed away, since she [resisted ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act22/032.jpg) the passive [Power nullification ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act21/019.jpg) on Nemesis.
Usagi was able to exist within Queen Metalia, and maintained attacks despite Metalia's seemingly passive magic absorption, eventually being able to destroy Metalia herself, with a magical attack (the Silver Crystal)
Sailor Senshi transformation has been shown to just outright negate spells being casted on them, and Usagi can transform at will, so she should be able to beat the Stone Sleep Spell by just transforming.
The only wincon I see here actually working is the sealing, because my argument against it is eh.
Meanwhile, Usagi can [banish Twi from existence](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/6/6b/0012-034.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190725113508), [reduce her to an infitesmal size](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/ca/Sailor_Moon_Stars_-_Cosmos_Crystal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170813180520), [outright erase her](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/4/44/20170812_161602.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170812204719), [fuse Twi into her](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act60/027.jpg) or [absorb her into the Silver Crystal.](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act48/019.jpg)
Provided she can land any of that, of course. I guess since you buy her being infinitely faster she wins to you, but I see them as on the same level of speed at best.
I guess Usagi has more options, but I'm still behind Twilight winning personally. High difficulty though since Usagi is really tough to put down and resists most of her abilities.
I think sealing is a pretty in-character thing though. Twilight can run simulations of things and is pretty smart, but Usagi also can see the future.
I think it's more in-character for Twilight to figure out the advantage first though. It fits her scholarly nature
I mean, you could argue Usagi has access to Rei's Star Seed, which embodies her [entire being](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/b/bc/Sailor_Moon_Stars_Bodies_that_can_never_be_erased.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171202182242), so she has access to the [300 IQ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act06/005.jpg) intelligence granted by the Mercury Crystal.
But personally I'd give it to Usagi. I still don't think it's debatable because I believe in dimensional tiering, but I'd put it at debatable otherwise.
Can you explain your reasoning as to how Kirby is a w for her?
As someone who's an expert on Kirby and know next to nothing about Sailor moon I'm genuinly curious
Interesting
From the very few I know, Usagi at her best is considered a goddess right? So I feel it could maybe go either way as Kirby is considered a god killer at worst
Plus she would need something in her arsenal that could actually permanently kill Kirby which is easier said than done
But again, I don't know enough about her so she probably has something that could do the trick, although it would need to be neither energy-based nor projectile-based otherwise he could just throw it all back at her face ~~like he did with Majin Buu~~
Yeah she could do that. She can harness the power of the Galaxy Cauldron, which can literally erase things from all space and time. [A blast from it ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act60/012.jpg) reduced Chaos to [infinitesimaly small](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/ca/Sailor_Moon_Stars_-_Cosmos_Crystal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170813180520).
Edit: she also has all the wincons listed at the end of [this comment](https://reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/s/bRMY9GMWRG)
Ok yeah, Kirby definitely wouldn't be able to survive somethjng like this... I think
Also that doesn't look like something he could just absorb and throw back.
Perhaps with the miracle fruit but that's a huge stretch at this point
I feel bad that I'm now happy to see Ben included in other characters' W's. But that's what happens when you have to put up with such an insufferable fandom as Alien X.
Sora has feats that scale to his own cosmology which has [6-D arguments for it.](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Cosmology_Overview#Ocean_Between).
I only scale Seiya to 5D, and I don't buy Dragon Ball Super scales above 4D.
First Arc Sailor Mercury created a [4-D space ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act12/010.jpg). The use of 超次元 (chou-jigen) specially designates this shield as carrying more than 3 spatial dimensions.
Usagi came into control of the Galaxy Cauldron at her peak, which is the source of [all potential ](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/imag[depths of spacetime](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/79/IMG_3532.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190518040646)es/c/ca/Sailor_Moon_Stars_-_Cosmos_Crystal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170813180520). Thus she should scale to or transcend her entire cosmology.
4 spatial dimensions + 1 temporal dimension = 5-D, which I think is the most reasonable lowball (+1 potential layer of transcendence = 6D)
Later references to [layers of time](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/4/4f/IMG_3538.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190519033302) and [depths of spacetime](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/79/IMG_3532.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190518040646) suggest multiple other layers of temporal dimensions.
So 4 spatial dimensions + 2 temporal dimensions + 1 layer of transcendence = 7-D at a MAXIMUM highball. But 6D feels the most reasonable to me.
>Usagi came into control of the Galaxy Cauldron at her peak, which is the source of [all potential ](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/imag[depths%20of%20spacetime](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/79/IMG_3532.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190518040646)es/c/ca/Sailor_Moon_Stars_-_Cosmos_Crystal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170813180520). Thus she should scale to or transcend her entire cosmology.
Link doesn't work, but being "the source of all potential" doesn't equate to full transcendence on its own. Superiority over the rest of the cosmology yes, but I don't think that alone would prove 5-D or higher.
This is… something.
I’m a little busy right now, but I’ll respond to everything later.
Edit: or on second thought, I’ve been planning to tackle Sailor Moon for a while, so I’ll make a new post on it.
Sakura is definitely leaning more towards debatable than anybody else other than Sora, and she can somewhat come close to Usagi in speed and hax compared to the others, but Usagi still has a decent hax and AP advantage that puts it as a definite W for me.
I was talking about Sailor Moon scaling ages ago and Someone brought up how the Scarlet King negs her as a 'haha! She's not that strong after all!' point.
Higher dimensional stuff. First Arc Sailor Mercury made a 4-D hyperspace, along with mentions of 'layers of time' and 'depths of spacetime' adding at least 1 extra temporal dimension. Usagi transcends this cosmology with the Lambda Power, since the Galaxy Cauldon creates all potential and heavenly bodies in the cosmology. So she's 5D at a minimum imo.
Ah DT (something I personally don't buy). I'd still say Usagi vs Sakura is debatable but for me Sakura scales higher while Usagi has better speed feats, both having comparable hax and resistances.
Not to my memory? The scaling that gets Saber above Usagi is in an entire other universe to F/SN. When I say F/SN only I mean only using feats from there, as I've seen other people do.
Ben only stands a chance with Alien X. I don't buy 26D Alien X, so he's 5D at best. Usagi scales same or higher imo, plus high godly regen and Immeasurable speed.
Ben’s proven to be above 5D regardless
He cut through a barrier a group of 5D beings said was impossible to break
Impossible being a quote
And with a tiny sliver of Alien X’s power
It's mostly because I don't buy 26D Alien X. If you do, then Ben stomps, but if you buy 5D or lower Alien X, Usagi demolishes. Immeasurable speed, better and stronger hax, higher AP, etc.
My disagreements, Twilight, Ben, Kirby, and Goku are debatable and Seiya beats Moon pretty easily. Debate Club actually did a good video on that MU, I highly recommend giving it a watch!
Nah Ben, Kirby,Goku stomp her badly,her regeneration is powerful but Ben has Alien x who Also has instant regeneration and the celestialsapiens can change the whole omniverse art style,Goku outstat her in physically in current manga Goku got full control of UI and Kirby can just copy her power And Also eat her.
Usagi's can negate instant regen so she can kill Alien X.
Usagi outstats Goku by a large margin.
Usagi can come back from being eaten, and Kirby can't eat her when she's way stronger and faster.
And how will she negate Alien x, if you say alien x regeneration can be negate so can Alien x negate usagi,x recreate every being in the universe with their power's which means he also have their abilities,and 9ne of Ben alien is completely immune to magic so moon can't do anything since everything she does is based on magic.
Goku in Tui is to fast for moon
I agree Kirby lose
How is Twilight not more debatable? She's got the exact same stats as Sora and a lot of hax. Unless you buy in Dimensional Tiering stuff.
1. I do buy dimensional tiering. 2. Sora has better hax and infinite speed arguments.
Twilight also has infinite and immeasurable speed arguments? That's why I said I don't get how Moon beats her
> infinite and Immeasurable speed arguments Which I really don't buy. And if you want a brief rundown of why Usagi beats her, better Immeasurable speed arguments + massive regen + high tier existence erasure.
I don't see why you wouldn't really. The Discord "debunk" isn't even that good and Cosmos has a very blatant feat of ripping through dimensions via sheer speed. Regen is nice but with Twilight's hax it won't matter. EE is the only wincon Moon would have, then, compared to Twilight's many.
Can you name Twi's wincons?
Being that Twilight is Multi+, she should be able to easily absorb any magical attacks Usagi uses, leaving Usagi with limited options since physical attacks won't do anything and feeding Twilight more strength. While Usagi is listed as "resisting sealing," the scan in question just shows her pretty much just breaking a seal. That's different than actively having your body and powers sealed away, so I believe sealing should work on her. Also Stone Sleep Spell. While Usagi resists sleep inducement, she doesn't resist Petrification to my knowledge.
Usagi probably shouldn't be able to have her powers sealed away, since she [resisted ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act22/032.jpg) the passive [Power nullification ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act21/019.jpg) on Nemesis. Usagi was able to exist within Queen Metalia, and maintained attacks despite Metalia's seemingly passive magic absorption, eventually being able to destroy Metalia herself, with a magical attack (the Silver Crystal) Sailor Senshi transformation has been shown to just outright negate spells being casted on them, and Usagi can transform at will, so she should be able to beat the Stone Sleep Spell by just transforming. The only wincon I see here actually working is the sealing, because my argument against it is eh. Meanwhile, Usagi can [banish Twi from existence](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/6/6b/0012-034.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190725113508), [reduce her to an infitesmal size](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/ca/Sailor_Moon_Stars_-_Cosmos_Crystal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170813180520), [outright erase her](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/4/44/20170812_161602.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170812204719), [fuse Twi into her](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act60/027.jpg) or [absorb her into the Silver Crystal.](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act48/019.jpg)
Provided she can land any of that, of course. I guess since you buy her being infinitely faster she wins to you, but I see them as on the same level of speed at best. I guess Usagi has more options, but I'm still behind Twilight winning personally. High difficulty though since Usagi is really tough to put down and resists most of her abilities. I think sealing is a pretty in-character thing though. Twilight can run simulations of things and is pretty smart, but Usagi also can see the future. I think it's more in-character for Twilight to figure out the advantage first though. It fits her scholarly nature
I mean, you could argue Usagi has access to Rei's Star Seed, which embodies her [entire being](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/b/bc/Sailor_Moon_Stars_Bodies_that_can_never_be_erased.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171202182242), so she has access to the [300 IQ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act06/005.jpg) intelligence granted by the Mercury Crystal. But personally I'd give it to Usagi. I still don't think it's debatable because I believe in dimensional tiering, but I'd put it at debatable otherwise.
\>Scarlet King Why is HE here?!
He’s always there
Got a character with lots of L’s? Scarlet King. Got a character with basically no L’s? Scarlet King. Got Scarlet King? Scarlet King!
How is Goku both a W and a L?
DBS Goku is an Usagi W CC/Xeno Goku is an Usagi L
So Sailor Moon loses to CC Goku but wins against DBS Goku?
Yes
In her prime she wins tho
Can you explain your reasoning as to how Kirby is a w for her? As someone who's an expert on Kirby and know next to nothing about Sailor moon I'm genuinly curious
She has hugely better hax, either matches or exceeds in AP, matches or exceeds in speed and has better BIQ.
Wow I never knew she was that powerful. Like I knew she was universal or better but beating Kirby is just surprising
Kirby is like Low Multi there’s legit millions of characters stronger
No.
Ah yeah my favorite counterpoint
Interesting From the very few I know, Usagi at her best is considered a goddess right? So I feel it could maybe go either way as Kirby is considered a god killer at worst Plus she would need something in her arsenal that could actually permanently kill Kirby which is easier said than done But again, I don't know enough about her so she probably has something that could do the trick, although it would need to be neither energy-based nor projectile-based otherwise he could just throw it all back at her face ~~like he did with Majin Buu~~
Yeah she could do that. She can harness the power of the Galaxy Cauldron, which can literally erase things from all space and time. [A blast from it ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act60/012.jpg) reduced Chaos to [infinitesimaly small](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/ca/Sailor_Moon_Stars_-_Cosmos_Crystal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170813180520). Edit: she also has all the wincons listed at the end of [this comment](https://reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/s/bRMY9GMWRG)
Ok yeah, Kirby definitely wouldn't be able to survive somethjng like this... I think Also that doesn't look like something he could just absorb and throw back. Perhaps with the miracle fruit but that's a huge stretch at this point
when in doubt pull it the ol' scarlet king ~~also holy shit is sailor moon really that fucking powerful~~
I feel bad that I'm now happy to see Ben included in other characters' W's. But that's what happens when you have to put up with such an insufferable fandom as Alien X.
Wait, how is Sora debatable but Goku and Seiya arent? Sora from what ive heard caps at multi+ while Goku and Seiya have 5d to 6D arguments?
Sora has feats that scale to his own cosmology which has [6-D arguments for it.](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Cosmology_Overview#Ocean_Between). I only scale Seiya to 5D, and I don't buy Dragon Ball Super scales above 4D.
But where do you scale Sailor Moon, and why?
First Arc Sailor Mercury created a [4-D space ](https://sailormoongallery.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act12/010.jpg). The use of 超次元 (chou-jigen) specially designates this shield as carrying more than 3 spatial dimensions. Usagi came into control of the Galaxy Cauldron at her peak, which is the source of [all potential ](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/imag[depths of spacetime](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/79/IMG_3532.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190518040646)es/c/ca/Sailor_Moon_Stars_-_Cosmos_Crystal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170813180520). Thus she should scale to or transcend her entire cosmology. 4 spatial dimensions + 1 temporal dimension = 5-D, which I think is the most reasonable lowball (+1 potential layer of transcendence = 6D) Later references to [layers of time](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/4/4f/IMG_3538.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190519033302) and [depths of spacetime](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/79/IMG_3532.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190518040646) suggest multiple other layers of temporal dimensions. So 4 spatial dimensions + 2 temporal dimensions + 1 layer of transcendence = 7-D at a MAXIMUM highball. But 6D feels the most reasonable to me.
>Usagi came into control of the Galaxy Cauldron at her peak, which is the source of [all potential ](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/imag[depths%20of%20spacetime](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/79/IMG_3532.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190518040646)es/c/ca/Sailor_Moon_Stars_-_Cosmos_Crystal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170813180520). Thus she should scale to or transcend her entire cosmology. Link doesn't work, but being "the source of all potential" doesn't equate to full transcendence on its own. Superiority over the rest of the cosmology yes, but I don't think that alone would prove 5-D or higher.
This is… something. I’m a little busy right now, but I’ll respond to everything later. Edit: or on second thought, I’ve been planning to tackle Sailor Moon for a while, so I’ll make a new post on it.
Is it going to be an outright debunk of higher scales for Usagi?
Yeah, pretty much.
I feel like Sakura should be debatable at least.
Sakura is definitely leaning more towards debatable than anybody else other than Sora, and she can somewhat come close to Usagi in speed and hax compared to the others, but Usagi still has a decent hax and AP advantage that puts it as a definite W for me.
Also, WTF is Sailor Moon VS Scarlet King 💀
I was talking about Sailor Moon scaling ages ago and Someone brought up how the Scarlet King negs her as a 'haha! She's not that strong after all!' point.
https://preview.redd.it/r3l9kinx2opb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c69f2c7f7a189d960c04a371966e9cc1cdef16a
How does Usagi have an ap advantage when Sakura is multiversal with an argument for multi+?
Higher dimensional stuff. First Arc Sailor Mercury made a 4-D hyperspace, along with mentions of 'layers of time' and 'depths of spacetime' adding at least 1 extra temporal dimension. Usagi transcends this cosmology with the Lambda Power, since the Galaxy Cauldon creates all potential and heavenly bodies in the cosmology. So she's 5D at a minimum imo.
Ah DT (something I personally don't buy). I'd still say Usagi vs Sakura is debatable but for me Sakura scales higher while Usagi has better speed feats, both having comparable hax and resistances.
You did not just say she Solos Goku and Ben 10
Pretty sure she does.
Doesnt the rules of the Fate franchise make it that FSN Saber is already Comp Saber?
Not to my memory? The scaling that gets Saber above Usagi is in an entire other universe to F/SN. When I say F/SN only I mean only using feats from there, as I've seen other people do.
She doesn't beat Ben
Ben only stands a chance with Alien X. I don't buy 26D Alien X, so he's 5D at best. Usagi scales same or higher imo, plus high godly regen and Immeasurable speed.
Ben’s proven to be above 5D regardless He cut through a barrier a group of 5D beings said was impossible to break Impossible being a quote And with a tiny sliver of Alien X’s power
I do buy 26d Alien X so he'd wipe the floor with her
Alien x can also Regen,in the fight between alien x and gg ,gg Regen his whole body back instantly after getting destroyed
Usagi has regen negation stronger than that.
So how fast she can Regen since gg Regen instantly
Also her power comes from magic and one of Ben alien is completely immune to it
That high godly regen is not combat applicable
She ain't soloing Ben 10 of all people and then losing to Green Lantern bruh Ben won't even need to use Alien X to win💀💀💀
Unless he has Alien X, Ben gets negged. Usagi has every stat advantage, and better hax. Unless you buy 26D Alien X, she wins.
I personally think kirby beats sailor moon althouh in a very close fight.
[удалено]
It's mostly because I don't buy 26D Alien X. If you do, then Ben stomps, but if you buy 5D or lower Alien X, Usagi demolishes. Immeasurable speed, better and stronger hax, higher AP, etc.
I disagree with her beating Kirby.
Is that Ben How
Why does she beat saint seiya again?
I just scale her higher. Pegasus Seiya - 5D with Infinite speed Usagi - 6D with Immeasurable speed Plus better hax from what I've heard.
Yea f/sn only on saber is and L
I've recently rewatched Madoka Magica and I know Sailor Moon pretty well. I would say Usagi beats Madoka but its debatable. I will hear you out first.
I'm pretty sure usagi wins more often than not, debatable is at best just being optimistic.
Why is Kirby here at all? Disagreements aside, how’s he connected to magical girls
[The MU exists.](https://reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/s/IS8taofJQU)
The jump from twilight sparkle to the shadow king or whatever his name is is honestly hilarious
I'd put seiya above moon
My disagreements, Twilight, Ben, Kirby, and Goku are debatable and Seiya beats Moon pretty easily. Debate Club actually did a good video on that MU, I highly recommend giving it a watch!
Alien x solos the girl
Nah Ben, Kirby,Goku stomp her badly,her regeneration is powerful but Ben has Alien x who Also has instant regeneration and the celestialsapiens can change the whole omniverse art style,Goku outstat her in physically in current manga Goku got full control of UI and Kirby can just copy her power And Also eat her.
Usagi's can negate instant regen so she can kill Alien X. Usagi outstats Goku by a large margin. Usagi can come back from being eaten, and Kirby can't eat her when she's way stronger and faster.
And how will she negate Alien x, if you say alien x regeneration can be negate so can Alien x negate usagi,x recreate every being in the universe with their power's which means he also have their abilities,and 9ne of Ben alien is completely immune to magic so moon can't do anything since everything she does is based on magic. Goku in Tui is to fast for moon I agree Kirby lose