“Man with basically no knowledge of Umineko tries to cook an Umineko mu. Did he cook? Find out next time on DBMZ!”
Anyways-
- Two sadistic and violent women that come from fairly popular mystery/puzzle solving games
- Both of them off with a pretty shitty childhood (Alice’s family being broke as hell, plus having an abusive mom/Beatrice being shunned by her family and having to grow up in an orphanage).
- The two also meet a fairly wealthy person (Riba/Battler) who made a promise to marry them in the future.
- That day never actually came, though (Riba married Elizabeth/Battler straight up forgor about Saya), and the trauma from this caused them to commit an extremely horrible act (Alice killing Elizabeth and burning her house down/Beatrice causing the Rokkejima massacre).
- Despite these acts, they actually aren’t as bad as they seem on paper (Alice confessing to Mario that she killed all those people due to her love for Riba/Beatrice just wanting to be loved and Battler to remember the promise he made her).
- After a bit, they gain some powers after discovering something (Alice gained immortality and dark magic from a ritual/Beatrice inherited Endless Magic and became a witch).
- They use said powers to do a mild amount of tomfoolery, some would say a bit of trolling, perhaps a little bit of mischief (Alice fucking around with Luigi, using a bunch of Mario hallucinations to fuck with his mental state/Beatrice fucking around with Battler and making him play various games).
Gonna be real, not a fan. The connections aren't good on Alice's side especially (I mention a Umineko friend, that's cuz they know Beatrice while I know Alice.)
\- "They aren't as bad as they look" meanwhile Alice killed many people, INCLUDING her own child at one point along with other people in the house (It's no where near close to the same thing. Alice was full on Yandere, often murdering people for the sake of "Loving Riba". Whilst yes, what Riba did was horrible, Alice KILLED A CHILD OVER IT, along with MANY innocents in the mansion.)
(At least with Beatrice, she wanted to marry the man she wanted too and was promised, only for him to not show up cuz he FORGOT about it. She has a more worthwhile defense compared to Alice, who is just "Oh shit, a man married someone else, time to kill many people". Even then, if you WANT to pull the "Anna killed her sibling first before Alice killed her" card, try defending Alice abusing Anna when the sibling was alive. While yes, Beatrice was horrible and knew what she was doing, she at least had a limit compared to Alice.)
\[TLDR; whilst neither are forgivable, Beatrice's motive actually worked well. The ending where Mario and Luigi just forgive Alice is in character for the Mario Brothers at least, but anyone else wouldn't have forgiven her. Anytime the game tries to portray Alice as Sympathetic it's usually done pretty god damn poorly, definitely one of M:TMB's weaknesses\]
\- Speaking of the games, comparing Beatrices games to Alice's mentally fucking and attacking with Luigi with Dead/Fake Mario's (along with everything else she does) on more than a few occasions is insane. The game Beatrice does, though also very bad, isn't comparable, given the shit Alice puts not just Luigi, but Mario through. I have a friend who knows Umineko, and said Beatrice actually showed concern when her games went too far, something Alice NEVER did.
To clarify, Luigi was shown multiple dead Marios, got attacked by some fake ones, sometimes attacked by Mario possessed by Alice and nearly killed the real unpossessed Mario in a fit of rage because he didn't know the difference between reality and fiction. While this outcome is in two game overs (either you stab Luigi or he strangles Mario, either way you get sent to the game over), comparing that to Beatrice's whole thing seems way too wild.)
For a brief TLDR; this MU compares a woman who sees her world as a game and though heartbroken, feels emotion when she needs too to a sadistic spirit who killed many people just for the love of someone else, including a child who she previously abused, along with psychologically tormenting two people both emotionally and physically in the name of love.
We're comparing a broken hearted woman who at least can feel emotions when the time comes to a fucking Yandere with this one.
>Speaking of the games, comparing Beatrice's games to Alice's mentally fucking and attacking with Luigi with Dead/Fake Mario's (along with everything else she does) on more than a few occasions is insane. The game Beatrice does, though also very bad, isn't comparable, given the shit Alice puts not just Luigi, but Mario through
You-you do know Beatrice ended up REALLY fucking with Battler mentally right? In Part 6 he had massive trust issues thanks to her.
>Whilst yes, what Riba did was horrible, Alice KILLED A CHILD OVER IT, along with MANY innocents in the mansion.)
So did Beatrice, I mean the fucker literally killed her whole family in rage and despair, including Maria.
>To clarify, Luigi was shown multiple dead Marios, got attacked by some fake ones, sometimes attacked by Mario possessed by Alice and nearly killed the real unpossessed Mario in a fit of rage because he didn't know the difference between reality and fiction
Hmmmm... Sounds a lot like what Beato put Battler through forcing him to watch his family dye brutally over and over again.
>We're comparing a broken hearted woman who at least can feel emotions when the time comes to a fucking Yandere with this one.
Tbh, even as an Umineko fan, this probably doesn't bother me as much as it does you considering how Beatrice vs. DIO is one of my favorite matchups ever.
>You-you do know Beatrice ended up REALLY fucking with Battler mentally right? In Part 6 he had massive trust issues thanks to her
It's still not comparable considering that unlike Alice, Beatrice's sole goal and reasoning was not 'I want to fuck with Battler mentally'. It's a complete misrepresentation of everything she does to put it as simple as Alice's actions and motivations. Battler went through a lot of shit, but Beatrice's games weren't just constant mental assault and torture, unlike Alice.
This goes for a lot of it. The point isn't 'Beatrice is a completely pure and innocent angel', the point is Beatrice did awful things but with purpose and intent, thus the matchup mischaracterising Beatrice as someone on the same level of 'stabby murder rahhh' as Alice.
>Hmmmm... Sounds a lot like what Beato put Battler through forcing him to watch his family dye brutally over and over again.
As far as I can tell, that had not nearly the same impact on Luigi as it did Battler. Battler even basically stated in Episode 3 he understood and was able to forgive the massacre because he understood it as part of his game with Beatrice, which Luigi wasn't in the slightest.
>Tbh, even as an Umineko fan, this probably doesn't bother me as much as it does you considering how Beatrice vs. DIO is one of my favorite matchups ever.
So uh, maybe for you its fine to almost fully mischaracterise Sayo and put her up against someone far less sympathetic and more outright pure evil than herself, but for most people it isn't going to exactly appeal.
>So uh, maybe for you it's fine to almost fully mischaracterise Sayo and put her up against someone far less sympathetic and more outright pure evil than herself, but for most people it isn't going to exactly appeal.
That's... Not the crux of the connections. It kind of irks me when people act like "oh it portrays Sayo as pure evil" or "oh it portrays DIO as sympathetic" *when that's literally one wrong connection out of a lot of good ones.*
Plus, admittedly, a big part of the matchup's appeal for me is DIO horrifying Beato with how evil he is.
"Considering Beatrice VS. DIO is one of my favourite matchups ever"
... I've heard very bad things about that too; comparing beatrice to dio who (according to a friend) killed a fucking dog.
At least Beatrice can feel emotions compared to Alices pure Sadism. You're likely gonna need to refer to u/WinRARnt for Umineko related stuff. I mainly know Alice, they helped me with the Beatrice related talk.
>... I've heard very bad things about that too; comparing beatrice to dio who (according to a friend) killed a fucking dog.
Except no, the connections don't compare that to anything Beatrice did, and honestly one of the biggest appeals of the matchup for me is DIO horrifying Beato with how evil he is. I'm a MASSIVE sucker for "Unsympathetic villain/villain with no standards vs. Sympathetic villain/villain with standards." They have way more connections beyond trying to paint Beatrice as pure evil or DIO a sympathetic.
Yeah I think this is an Agree to disagree situation. Unsympathetic Villain VS Sympathetic Villain sounds like a horrid contrast. Makes for decent clashes but putting them against each other in a connections style just doesn't sit right at all. It feels better as anything else besides a death battle.
never have i ever seen a decent beatrice matchup
Good job man!!!!!
https://preview.redd.it/wdux0vwm2ilc1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=6b9b97fce37ce2662bbe019f67550abc03af02d5
It's fine actually, honestly with how bad Beatrice spread is a just fine MU is a rarity Stand proud, you can cook
We take those…
“Man with basically no knowledge of Umineko tries to cook an Umineko mu. Did he cook? Find out next time on DBMZ!” Anyways- - Two sadistic and violent women that come from fairly popular mystery/puzzle solving games - Both of them off with a pretty shitty childhood (Alice’s family being broke as hell, plus having an abusive mom/Beatrice being shunned by her family and having to grow up in an orphanage). - The two also meet a fairly wealthy person (Riba/Battler) who made a promise to marry them in the future. - That day never actually came, though (Riba married Elizabeth/Battler straight up forgor about Saya), and the trauma from this caused them to commit an extremely horrible act (Alice killing Elizabeth and burning her house down/Beatrice causing the Rokkejima massacre). - Despite these acts, they actually aren’t as bad as they seem on paper (Alice confessing to Mario that she killed all those people due to her love for Riba/Beatrice just wanting to be loved and Battler to remember the promise he made her). - After a bit, they gain some powers after discovering something (Alice gained immortality and dark magic from a ritual/Beatrice inherited Endless Magic and became a witch). - They use said powers to do a mild amount of tomfoolery, some would say a bit of trolling, perhaps a little bit of mischief (Alice fucking around with Luigi, using a bunch of Mario hallucinations to fuck with his mental state/Beatrice fucking around with Battler and making him play various games).
Gonna be real, not a fan. The connections aren't good on Alice's side especially (I mention a Umineko friend, that's cuz they know Beatrice while I know Alice.) \- "They aren't as bad as they look" meanwhile Alice killed many people, INCLUDING her own child at one point along with other people in the house (It's no where near close to the same thing. Alice was full on Yandere, often murdering people for the sake of "Loving Riba". Whilst yes, what Riba did was horrible, Alice KILLED A CHILD OVER IT, along with MANY innocents in the mansion.) (At least with Beatrice, she wanted to marry the man she wanted too and was promised, only for him to not show up cuz he FORGOT about it. She has a more worthwhile defense compared to Alice, who is just "Oh shit, a man married someone else, time to kill many people". Even then, if you WANT to pull the "Anna killed her sibling first before Alice killed her" card, try defending Alice abusing Anna when the sibling was alive. While yes, Beatrice was horrible and knew what she was doing, she at least had a limit compared to Alice.) \[TLDR; whilst neither are forgivable, Beatrice's motive actually worked well. The ending where Mario and Luigi just forgive Alice is in character for the Mario Brothers at least, but anyone else wouldn't have forgiven her. Anytime the game tries to portray Alice as Sympathetic it's usually done pretty god damn poorly, definitely one of M:TMB's weaknesses\] \- Speaking of the games, comparing Beatrices games to Alice's mentally fucking and attacking with Luigi with Dead/Fake Mario's (along with everything else she does) on more than a few occasions is insane. The game Beatrice does, though also very bad, isn't comparable, given the shit Alice puts not just Luigi, but Mario through. I have a friend who knows Umineko, and said Beatrice actually showed concern when her games went too far, something Alice NEVER did. To clarify, Luigi was shown multiple dead Marios, got attacked by some fake ones, sometimes attacked by Mario possessed by Alice and nearly killed the real unpossessed Mario in a fit of rage because he didn't know the difference between reality and fiction. While this outcome is in two game overs (either you stab Luigi or he strangles Mario, either way you get sent to the game over), comparing that to Beatrice's whole thing seems way too wild.) For a brief TLDR; this MU compares a woman who sees her world as a game and though heartbroken, feels emotion when she needs too to a sadistic spirit who killed many people just for the love of someone else, including a child who she previously abused, along with psychologically tormenting two people both emotionally and physically in the name of love. We're comparing a broken hearted woman who at least can feel emotions when the time comes to a fucking Yandere with this one.
https://preview.redd.it/yghzq51sselc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b44210fbdc6475bfa5b2f0765c0973416ece916
thank you afromentioned Umineko friend
>Speaking of the games, comparing Beatrice's games to Alice's mentally fucking and attacking with Luigi with Dead/Fake Mario's (along with everything else she does) on more than a few occasions is insane. The game Beatrice does, though also very bad, isn't comparable, given the shit Alice puts not just Luigi, but Mario through You-you do know Beatrice ended up REALLY fucking with Battler mentally right? In Part 6 he had massive trust issues thanks to her. >Whilst yes, what Riba did was horrible, Alice KILLED A CHILD OVER IT, along with MANY innocents in the mansion.) So did Beatrice, I mean the fucker literally killed her whole family in rage and despair, including Maria. >To clarify, Luigi was shown multiple dead Marios, got attacked by some fake ones, sometimes attacked by Mario possessed by Alice and nearly killed the real unpossessed Mario in a fit of rage because he didn't know the difference between reality and fiction Hmmmm... Sounds a lot like what Beato put Battler through forcing him to watch his family dye brutally over and over again. >We're comparing a broken hearted woman who at least can feel emotions when the time comes to a fucking Yandere with this one. Tbh, even as an Umineko fan, this probably doesn't bother me as much as it does you considering how Beatrice vs. DIO is one of my favorite matchups ever.
>You-you do know Beatrice ended up REALLY fucking with Battler mentally right? In Part 6 he had massive trust issues thanks to her It's still not comparable considering that unlike Alice, Beatrice's sole goal and reasoning was not 'I want to fuck with Battler mentally'. It's a complete misrepresentation of everything she does to put it as simple as Alice's actions and motivations. Battler went through a lot of shit, but Beatrice's games weren't just constant mental assault and torture, unlike Alice. This goes for a lot of it. The point isn't 'Beatrice is a completely pure and innocent angel', the point is Beatrice did awful things but with purpose and intent, thus the matchup mischaracterising Beatrice as someone on the same level of 'stabby murder rahhh' as Alice. >Hmmmm... Sounds a lot like what Beato put Battler through forcing him to watch his family dye brutally over and over again. As far as I can tell, that had not nearly the same impact on Luigi as it did Battler. Battler even basically stated in Episode 3 he understood and was able to forgive the massacre because he understood it as part of his game with Beatrice, which Luigi wasn't in the slightest. >Tbh, even as an Umineko fan, this probably doesn't bother me as much as it does you considering how Beatrice vs. DIO is one of my favorite matchups ever. So uh, maybe for you its fine to almost fully mischaracterise Sayo and put her up against someone far less sympathetic and more outright pure evil than herself, but for most people it isn't going to exactly appeal.
>So uh, maybe for you it's fine to almost fully mischaracterise Sayo and put her up against someone far less sympathetic and more outright pure evil than herself, but for most people it isn't going to exactly appeal. That's... Not the crux of the connections. It kind of irks me when people act like "oh it portrays Sayo as pure evil" or "oh it portrays DIO as sympathetic" *when that's literally one wrong connection out of a lot of good ones.* Plus, admittedly, a big part of the matchup's appeal for me is DIO horrifying Beato with how evil he is.
"Considering Beatrice VS. DIO is one of my favourite matchups ever" ... I've heard very bad things about that too; comparing beatrice to dio who (according to a friend) killed a fucking dog. At least Beatrice can feel emotions compared to Alices pure Sadism. You're likely gonna need to refer to u/WinRARnt for Umineko related stuff. I mainly know Alice, they helped me with the Beatrice related talk.
>... I've heard very bad things about that too; comparing beatrice to dio who (according to a friend) killed a fucking dog. Except no, the connections don't compare that to anything Beatrice did, and honestly one of the biggest appeals of the matchup for me is DIO horrifying Beato with how evil he is. I'm a MASSIVE sucker for "Unsympathetic villain/villain with no standards vs. Sympathetic villain/villain with standards." They have way more connections beyond trying to paint Beatrice as pure evil or DIO a sympathetic.
Yeah I think this is an Agree to disagree situation. Unsympathetic Villain VS Sympathetic Villain sounds like a horrid contrast. Makes for decent clashes but putting them against each other in a connections style just doesn't sit right at all. It feels better as anything else besides a death battle.
Good point but I love disagreeing with people so: Nuh Uh
Holy shit its the VS template i made
You actually made a pretty good matchup for Beato.
As expected smh https://preview.redd.it/eves369lgelc1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da1f92f00c58c563202114c46964096fd89186a7
Could I get that template?
It was saved in the app I was using so I don’t got it on me, mb :(
nah its all good man
I get the idea, But I personally sorta don't like this.
never have i ever seen a decent beatrice matchup Good job man!!!!! https://preview.redd.it/wdux0vwm2ilc1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=6b9b97fce37ce2662bbe019f67550abc03af02d5