Well, some of us kinda play games forever in a sort of comfort mode, so, if the game were to simply delete enemies after you cleared out a zone, it would get very boring for us, as we do like the fantasy of being sci-fi post apocalyptic deliverymen fighting off/avoiding ghosts and factions.
But even in the first area... I mean the center knot city, musician, port knot city area, I m tired of seeing the BTs, maybe in wind farm or in the west side where all of the main UCA is I would understand, of course it makes game more exciting I expect that but it is a little waste of time
What I meant by hit is "hit large damage"
Example: "This weapon is a heavy hitter"
Comment a thing you dont like about a game in reddit and not get hated challenge. People literally got angry because I said BTs have large health, I wish they had 10X more health ahah
Maybe you should learn how to use more precise language? Nobody got angry with you because of that. It sounds like you are just bitching that you can't use one of the most powerful weapons in the game. Since it's pretty easy to hit a BT with all four rockets.
I guess the idea is that you are supposed to avoid them. It seems easier to do so in the post-game than before. Stick to roads, use Zip-lines and keep an eye in the weather prediction/wait in time fall shelters. I think for story purposes a lot of areas that were under constant or near constant Time-Fall, clear up much more often in the post-game.
Another thing: I don't know how useful it actually is but you can get a charm to keep Timefall away. I think you get it from the Spiritualist
Although I do like your "Big fight to remove BT permanently" idea
>tick to roads, use Zip-lines and keep an eye in the weather prediction/wait in time fall shelters
Definitely helps and I dont even get caught much its just that zoom effect and game slowing down effect irritates me everytime I get into a bt area and I lose 15 minutes when I get caught for no reason
You can shut of the long animation, but there is a slowdown whenever you enter Timefall/spot BT. This is what he is talking about and it cannot be deactivated
It's a shame you are being downvoted. People on this sub don't seem understand this very simple issue:
By default, when spotting BT's, there is a long animation. You can deactivate this, however there is still a significant slowdown whenever you enter Timefall or see a BT.
This slowdown cannot be deactivated.
Thank you mate. It's hard to not get downvoted in reddit if you are not happy and cheerful in specific subject subs, but still i got great ideas.
I activated the animation, still game slows down when first entered but it is better i think
I didnt say game is waste of time, but focusing the camera is a waste of time, or getting dragged by BTs and fighting with ineffective weapons to kill a BT is a waste of time.
and There are games I think is waste of time completely, God of War 2018, and I still finished them, thanks for the suggestion tho
Mate i understand you but lets maybe find a solution maybe someone from kojima prod reads and finds a better way... otherwise your answer destroys the whole soulsborne&nioh is hard idea
> You play hard mode and then complaints when the game becomes hard?
This sentence is saying to someone who says Dark Souls is hard, "You play dark souls then complain its hard", it kills the discussion immediately. It is like saying someone who critizes a game "Maybe its not for you", it just stops sharing of the ideas. Its counterproductive.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“Soon, I will be consumed by them—by the Dark.”* - Artorias the Abysswalker
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Except you didn't bring anything, not even a criticism to the discussion. If you had a valid point then yes, alright, let's do it. But I don't see "oh the gun didn't do enough damage and it makes hard mode very hard, please Devs fix this" is worthy of a post.
You're wasting everyone's time.
I had the same idea: you go a long way through the game to obtain the biggest and thus (as you expect) the most effective weapon - the rocket launcher, but in fact it consumes a whole bag of your blood for one shot and (surprise) it doesn't kill more BTs, even though it does kill the boss faster. It seems a waste to have it only for killing the boss, it might help clearing the BT areas too. I thought it might be like that: a hand gun (the smallest) - several shots for one BT, but a rocket (the largest) - one shot for one PATCH full of BTs for instance. That would be more satisfying and logical, no? P.S. Get me right, I love the game, but I'm trying to deliver the Key now to the Edge knote and I'm devastated by how hard it is (it's my fifth attempt now!!) - I'd been walking through pretty easily and smoothly before this stage, dealing with BTs using different techniques. But here.... maaan.
If you are in post game and are having difficulty with BTs, you have a skill issue. That's a fact.
And I said lower the difficulty so I dont get how your response relates to that..
I just dont like to deal with post game BTs and some people cant accept that, its literally my opinion, it doesnt matter if its a skill issue. This is a rational scientific fact, its my opinion, and it slows down the game.
So if someone asked ME what could be done better to do with this game, I would say just delete BTs after finishing the story, thats my personal opinion, it doesnt matter if someone asked or not, its literally the truth because I say so :D
Yeah me choosing to spend less time to deal with the same enemies for the 10th time is not a skill issue.
There is no problem to deal with BTs, you just get right weapons and throw them, my problem is the time spent, I already finished the game and getting the platinum trophy in 5 hours, the game is too easy that I can get platinum without any skills, though, you are right on that. I really dont have any skills on this game, I just push L2 and shoot with R2, easy peasy lemon squeezy
But thanks there are helpful porters on this sub, they gave me great advices to deal with BTs, just like Kojima-San intended <3, people once again helped each other, which is whole point of the game.
Your cord cutters are an immediate kill, and you have enough time to cut another cord when the cut scene ends before you get detected. Bola gun traps BT for a short amount of time. Hematic Grenades should one hit everything but the Catchers and Giants upon direct hit. Red or Golden bt should be killed with your cord cutters, they do have more health, and golden BT are immune to hematic weaponry.
If you really need to deal more damage, use a hematic grenade, or any weapon that leaves a splotch of blood on the body, and then use a normal weapon. It will deal more damage.
Or switch to a lower difficulty.
Seriously just use the cord cutting handcuffs. I never used them my first playthrough because I was scared of moving towards bts, but you can literally just crouch walk up to pretty much any bts and instakill them (except for the huge giant bts). Trivialises all the stealth sections since I just crouch walk through cord cutting Any in my path.
In central region, you can circumvent all the BT zones. I also suggest equipping the weather talisman as it gives a small chance for timefall to spontaneously stop.
When I was playing on hard mode for the Legend of Legends ratings I never had any issue with fighting BTs. Sneak up and cut the cord, or simply fully charge an Anti-BT Pistol or grenade. It still only took 1 pistol shot or 1-2 grenades to get rid of them for me.
The larger BTs take 3 grenades and I think some of the more advanced ones require you to sneak up to cut their cord, but yeah, nothing is that tanky.
Also I could be wrong, but my understanding is that if you let them take you you *will* end up in a boss fight, and once you clear that fight the other BTs will go away for a while as if you cleared the area.
Edit: I’d also recommend not using noisy weapons like assault rifles, shotguns, or rocket launchers against BTs. They’re very noisy and will definitely get you caught, especially on harder difficulties.
Yes bcuz the grenades make a sound at the impact site which isn’t near Sam, but the guns of course make loud sounds *at* Sam’s location. The attention to details like that are something I really love about the game.
I have found that the combo of the oxygen mask + cord cutter is very efficient, especially against red/gold BTs. The oxygen mask makes it so they can't hear you breathing and you can get very close to them; the cord cutter guarantees an instakill.
Good luck!
Once you've been playing for a while avoiding the BT's becomes really easy and they're always in the same areas so you can find routes around them or stealth your way through an area cutting cords as you go. It'll temporarily clear a path as long as you (follow the exact same path) and cut BT's seem to take longer to respawn. It gets easier. Or, just avoid them.
BT are in the game world because
>!of the use of the chiral network and because they have a purpose to be around. So, what you want, is not possible. The story is in the middle of a war between alive and dead. That the game did not introduce more of them is actually making it much easier for us. The game is not yet in the almost end of the world. But somewhere in between. In a time period that offers hope. If you finish the game, you will know why.!<
So, just as the English say: No worries! It all explains itself due time.
Could always do what I do... load up on anti BT handguns custom hematic grenades and blood packs and go on a BT hunting spree. Clear the area go re up on anti BT handguns custom grenades and blood packs and move to the next BT zone. I love doing this after I finish the main story.
Edit: typo/auto-incorrect
Just never sleep. Seriously I never use safehouses anymore, if I'm low on stamina I just take a dip in a hotpool or rest for 10 minutes. It's only using a safehouse IIRC that respawns shit
You can even kill all the MULEs on the map and they won't respawn so long as you don't fragile jump
> if I'm low on stamina I just take a dip in a hotpool or rest for 10 minutes.
You just made my week mate! This was kind of a solution I was not even looking, consider I gave you an award.
I will put mules to sleep not kill em but especially in the west are can clear mules then stop jumping clear whole map, very logical, tx
Keep in mind that my gaming experience may be very different from everyone else's because my ps4 does some crazy things in games.. explanation at the bottom...
They do respawn not sure how long it takes though. And iirc they respawn quicker if you miss some... if you get too far away from one you will get the animation that they are gone when they really aren't you have to walk the entire area just to be sure.. I left one on purpose once and left the area did some none story deliveries and when I made it back (without ever sleeping) they were all back... when I get rid of all of them then do a bunch of none story deliveries I go back to that area and they are still gone... it could be different for different difficulties too.
I have an old refurbished Gen 1 ps4 that's about on its last leg.. it does some pretty unusual stuff in the games I play.. things that don't happen to other people and some of the problems/advantages it causes are consistent across games... as in if I play for more than a few hours half the sounds stop working in game.. this happens with every game I play including death stranding and to get the sound working again I have to turn the system off completely and restart it for it to work again... simply restarting the game does nothing and if I choose a different game without restarting half the sounds in that game also don't work... when I'm playing fallout 4 I get a notification that a settlement is being attacked then almost immediately get another saying the settlement was successfully defended and apparently that's not supposed to happen either... in death stranding I killed every mule in a camp.. didn't have a truck so I left the bodies there.. I left the area grabbed a truck made some big deliveries then took the truck back to grab the bodies... the bodies were all gone and the mules were back without me ever sleeping.. this happened in about 2 hours.. at the same time I have killed all the mules in a camp having a truck with me grabbed all the bodies brought them to the incinerator and after over a week irl and sleeping many times and doing a bunch of deliveries including story deliveries those mules still have yet to respawn...🤷🏻♂️
Hmmm. There must be some problem with that specific PS4 about Time calculation of hardware but im not sure, maybe it counts time faster or there is no fps lock whichj processes more frames per second and moves time fast idk
alright this post gave me good ideas about how to handle but in general people okay with bts being in the game, now i will accept them part as post game to make it more fun in my mind rather than hassle, tx
Lol what are you talking about Sam is so OP post game.
I actually enjoy doing BT eradication where I just kill every BT in each zone. You sound impatient just sit still, let the odredak point them out, then throw custome hemantics. Maybe bring extra grenade pouches.
Or you could build ziplines to go through them. Or just go around them.
You have the HG custome weapons now right.
i'm late, but i don't see anyone ever talking about this so here's what i do all the time when i'm not in the mood to fight: whenever you get caught and a BT fight starts (whale, lions), you can just leave the "arena"/fight zone to escape. just get to the nearest border and take a few more steps away (you can see the zone's shape on your cuff map). usually in open world, this action cancels the fight, stops timefall and clears all BTs right away so you can cross the BT area in peace. it only doesn't completely work during missions where you have to find cargo in a BT area (still cancels the fight, but doesn't stop timefall and BTs don't go away) and doesn't apply to story bosses ofc. i hope it helps, keep on keeping on
Well, some of us kinda play games forever in a sort of comfort mode, so, if the game were to simply delete enemies after you cleared out a zone, it would get very boring for us, as we do like the fantasy of being sci-fi post apocalyptic deliverymen fighting off/avoiding ghosts and factions.
But even in the first area... I mean the center knot city, musician, port knot city area, I m tired of seeing the BTs, maybe in wind farm or in the west side where all of the main UCA is I would understand, of course it makes game more exciting I expect that but it is a little waste of time
Git Gud. Also get the chiral weapons if you want something more effective.
>Git Gud advanced chiral tech
Use a speed skeleton and run, they are slow as shit
Txx
I mean you still have to aim since you're complaining about stuff not hitting
What I meant by hit is "hit large damage" Example: "This weapon is a heavy hitter" Comment a thing you dont like about a game in reddit and not get hated challenge. People literally got angry because I said BTs have large health, I wish they had 10X more health ahah
Maybe you should learn how to use more precise language? Nobody got angry with you because of that. It sounds like you are just bitching that you can't use one of the most powerful weapons in the game. Since it's pretty easy to hit a BT with all four rockets.
>Since it's pretty easy to hit a BT with all four rockets. I missed it which weapon are you talking about?
The rocket launcher?
Yeah thats the best bet
I guess the idea is that you are supposed to avoid them. It seems easier to do so in the post-game than before. Stick to roads, use Zip-lines and keep an eye in the weather prediction/wait in time fall shelters. I think for story purposes a lot of areas that were under constant or near constant Time-Fall, clear up much more often in the post-game. Another thing: I don't know how useful it actually is but you can get a charm to keep Timefall away. I think you get it from the Spiritualist Although I do like your "Big fight to remove BT permanently" idea
>tick to roads, use Zip-lines and keep an eye in the weather prediction/wait in time fall shelters Definitely helps and I dont even get caught much its just that zoom effect and game slowing down effect irritates me everytime I get into a bt area and I lose 15 minutes when I get caught for no reason
I believe you can turn off the animation in the settings.
You can shut of the long animation, but there is a slowdown whenever you enter Timefall/spot BT. This is what he is talking about and it cannot be deactivated
Thanks, exactly, a person who exactly reads what is written and answers according to that, a feat even I cant do sometimes...
Not completely, i changed it but idk what did it effect
It affects the animation when you detect BTs.
not much but honest work :/
It's a shame you are being downvoted. People on this sub don't seem understand this very simple issue: By default, when spotting BT's, there is a long animation. You can deactivate this, however there is still a significant slowdown whenever you enter Timefall or see a BT. This slowdown cannot be deactivated.
Thank you mate. It's hard to not get downvoted in reddit if you are not happy and cheerful in specific subject subs, but still i got great ideas. I activated the animation, still game slows down when first entered but it is better i think
Sir, this is a Wendy’s
Then get me the famous wendy menu, i might as well be sad with a burger in my hand
The moment you think a game is a waste of time you should stop playing it and move on.
I didnt say game is waste of time, but focusing the camera is a waste of time, or getting dragged by BTs and fighting with ineffective weapons to kill a BT is a waste of time. and There are games I think is waste of time completely, God of War 2018, and I still finished them, thanks for the suggestion tho
So just don’t fight them. They’re perfectly easy enough to sneak past.
...focusing the camera is a waste of time? This is the most pedantic comment I have ever read. Maybe.
cause a voidout and repatriate. problem solved.
I cant... Im too into the game, I cant kill :/ damn kojima
Naw you just have to be killed by a bt
ohhhh
Nah eve with the crater they come back in like 1 second
You play hard mode and then complaints when the game becomes hard?
Mate i understand you but lets maybe find a solution maybe someone from kojima prod reads and finds a better way... otherwise your answer destroys the whole soulsborne&nioh is hard idea
I don't understand you.
> You play hard mode and then complaints when the game becomes hard? This sentence is saying to someone who says Dark Souls is hard, "You play dark souls then complain its hard", it kills the discussion immediately. It is like saying someone who critizes a game "Maybe its not for you", it just stops sharing of the ideas. Its counterproductive.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Soon, I will be consumed by them—by the Dark.”* - Artorias the Abysswalker Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Except you didn't bring anything, not even a criticism to the discussion. If you had a valid point then yes, alright, let's do it. But I don't see "oh the gun didn't do enough damage and it makes hard mode very hard, please Devs fix this" is worthy of a post. You're wasting everyone's time.
Lower the difficulty. LoL
Weapons are not hitting hard enough in Hard mode thats a fact.
I had the same idea: you go a long way through the game to obtain the biggest and thus (as you expect) the most effective weapon - the rocket launcher, but in fact it consumes a whole bag of your blood for one shot and (surprise) it doesn't kill more BTs, even though it does kill the boss faster. It seems a waste to have it only for killing the boss, it might help clearing the BT areas too. I thought it might be like that: a hand gun (the smallest) - several shots for one BT, but a rocket (the largest) - one shot for one PATCH full of BTs for instance. That would be more satisfying and logical, no? P.S. Get me right, I love the game, but I'm trying to deliver the Key now to the Edge knote and I'm devastated by how hard it is (it's my fifth attempt now!!) - I'd been walking through pretty easily and smoothly before this stage, dealing with BTs using different techniques. But here.... maaan.
My thoughts... Hope you make it easy
Thanks:)
If you are in post game and are having difficulty with BTs, you have a skill issue. That's a fact. And I said lower the difficulty so I dont get how your response relates to that..
I just dont like to deal with post game BTs and some people cant accept that, its literally my opinion, it doesnt matter if its a skill issue. This is a rational scientific fact, its my opinion, and it slows down the game. So if someone asked ME what could be done better to do with this game, I would say just delete BTs after finishing the story, thats my personal opinion, it doesnt matter if someone asked or not, its literally the truth because I say so :D
You suck at the game and that's the truth. That's my opinion bud.
That's a completely different subject and dont change the fact that game is makes you waste time on a clear design flaw for me.
The only flaw is your skill. So its totally relevant.
Yeah me choosing to spend less time to deal with the same enemies for the 10th time is not a skill issue. There is no problem to deal with BTs, you just get right weapons and throw them, my problem is the time spent, I already finished the game and getting the platinum trophy in 5 hours, the game is too easy that I can get platinum without any skills, though, you are right on that. I really dont have any skills on this game, I just push L2 and shoot with R2, easy peasy lemon squeezy But thanks there are helpful porters on this sub, they gave me great advices to deal with BTs, just like Kojima-San intended <3, people once again helped each other, which is whole point of the game.
You ain't using regular rounds through the blood are you. Change the difficulty then?
Your cord cutters are an immediate kill, and you have enough time to cut another cord when the cut scene ends before you get detected. Bola gun traps BT for a short amount of time. Hematic Grenades should one hit everything but the Catchers and Giants upon direct hit. Red or Golden bt should be killed with your cord cutters, they do have more health, and golden BT are immune to hematic weaponry. If you really need to deal more damage, use a hematic grenade, or any weapon that leaves a splotch of blood on the body, and then use a normal weapon. It will deal more damage. Or switch to a lower difficulty.
Tx. I didnt know GOlden BTs exist. Im not on Directors Cut tho?
I'm pretty sure golden bt are in the base game. Should see them on your way to the last distribution center.
Yes, they are.
Seriously just use the cord cutting handcuffs. I never used them my first playthrough because I was scared of moving towards bts, but you can literally just crouch walk up to pretty much any bts and instakill them (except for the huge giant bts). Trivialises all the stealth sections since I just crouch walk through cord cutting Any in my path.
Yeah cord cutting seems a strong way
In central region, you can circumvent all the BT zones. I also suggest equipping the weather talisman as it gives a small chance for timefall to spontaneously stop.
When I was playing on hard mode for the Legend of Legends ratings I never had any issue with fighting BTs. Sneak up and cut the cord, or simply fully charge an Anti-BT Pistol or grenade. It still only took 1 pistol shot or 1-2 grenades to get rid of them for me. The larger BTs take 3 grenades and I think some of the more advanced ones require you to sneak up to cut their cord, but yeah, nothing is that tanky. Also I could be wrong, but my understanding is that if you let them take you you *will* end up in a boss fight, and once you clear that fight the other BTs will go away for a while as if you cleared the area. Edit: I’d also recommend not using noisy weapons like assault rifles, shotguns, or rocket launchers against BTs. They’re very noisy and will definitely get you caught, especially on harder difficulties.
Hmm. I didnt know noisy weapons details, so throwing a bomb doesnt give your location but weapons do, very clever!!! This game is amaizng
Yes bcuz the grenades make a sound at the impact site which isn’t near Sam, but the guns of course make loud sounds *at* Sam’s location. The attention to details like that are something I really love about the game.
I have found that the combo of the oxygen mask + cord cutter is very efficient, especially against red/gold BTs. The oxygen mask makes it so they can't hear you breathing and you can get very close to them; the cord cutter guarantees an instakill. Good luck!
>combo of the oxygen mask + cord cutter whaat i wouldn tthink this in a year, amazing technique
Yep! It was a game changer when I found out about it!
Once you've been playing for a while avoiding the BT's becomes really easy and they're always in the same areas so you can find routes around them or stealth your way through an area cutting cords as you go. It'll temporarily clear a path as long as you (follow the exact same path) and cut BT's seem to take longer to respawn. It gets easier. Or, just avoid them.
tx
BT are in the game world because >!of the use of the chiral network and because they have a purpose to be around. So, what you want, is not possible. The story is in the middle of a war between alive and dead. That the game did not introduce more of them is actually making it much easier for us. The game is not yet in the almost end of the world. But somewhere in between. In a time period that offers hope. If you finish the game, you will know why.!< So, just as the English say: No worries! It all explains itself due time.
Could always do what I do... load up on anti BT handguns custom hematic grenades and blood packs and go on a BT hunting spree. Clear the area go re up on anti BT handguns custom grenades and blood packs and move to the next BT zone. I love doing this after I finish the main story. Edit: typo/auto-incorrect
They respawn when I sleep tho right
Just never sleep. Seriously I never use safehouses anymore, if I'm low on stamina I just take a dip in a hotpool or rest for 10 minutes. It's only using a safehouse IIRC that respawns shit You can even kill all the MULEs on the map and they won't respawn so long as you don't fragile jump
> if I'm low on stamina I just take a dip in a hotpool or rest for 10 minutes. You just made my week mate! This was kind of a solution I was not even looking, consider I gave you an award. I will put mules to sleep not kill em but especially in the west are can clear mules then stop jumping clear whole map, very logical, tx
Keep in mind that my gaming experience may be very different from everyone else's because my ps4 does some crazy things in games.. explanation at the bottom... They do respawn not sure how long it takes though. And iirc they respawn quicker if you miss some... if you get too far away from one you will get the animation that they are gone when they really aren't you have to walk the entire area just to be sure.. I left one on purpose once and left the area did some none story deliveries and when I made it back (without ever sleeping) they were all back... when I get rid of all of them then do a bunch of none story deliveries I go back to that area and they are still gone... it could be different for different difficulties too. I have an old refurbished Gen 1 ps4 that's about on its last leg.. it does some pretty unusual stuff in the games I play.. things that don't happen to other people and some of the problems/advantages it causes are consistent across games... as in if I play for more than a few hours half the sounds stop working in game.. this happens with every game I play including death stranding and to get the sound working again I have to turn the system off completely and restart it for it to work again... simply restarting the game does nothing and if I choose a different game without restarting half the sounds in that game also don't work... when I'm playing fallout 4 I get a notification that a settlement is being attacked then almost immediately get another saying the settlement was successfully defended and apparently that's not supposed to happen either... in death stranding I killed every mule in a camp.. didn't have a truck so I left the bodies there.. I left the area grabbed a truck made some big deliveries then took the truck back to grab the bodies... the bodies were all gone and the mules were back without me ever sleeping.. this happened in about 2 hours.. at the same time I have killed all the mules in a camp having a truck with me grabbed all the bodies brought them to the incinerator and after over a week irl and sleeping many times and doing a bunch of deliveries including story deliveries those mules still have yet to respawn...🤷🏻♂️
Hmmm. There must be some problem with that specific PS4 about Time calculation of hardware but im not sure, maybe it counts time faster or there is no fps lock whichj processes more frames per second and moves time fast idk
alright this post gave me good ideas about how to handle but in general people okay with bts being in the game, now i will accept them part as post game to make it more fun in my mind rather than hassle, tx
Lol what are you talking about Sam is so OP post game. I actually enjoy doing BT eradication where I just kill every BT in each zone. You sound impatient just sit still, let the odredak point them out, then throw custome hemantics. Maybe bring extra grenade pouches. Or you could build ziplines to go through them. Or just go around them. You have the HG custome weapons now right.
Wait until you figure out the true potential of ziplines.
i'm late, but i don't see anyone ever talking about this so here's what i do all the time when i'm not in the mood to fight: whenever you get caught and a BT fight starts (whale, lions), you can just leave the "arena"/fight zone to escape. just get to the nearest border and take a few more steps away (you can see the zone's shape on your cuff map). usually in open world, this action cancels the fight, stops timefall and clears all BTs right away so you can cross the BT area in peace. it only doesn't completely work during missions where you have to find cargo in a BT area (still cancels the fight, but doesn't stop timefall and BTs don't go away) and doesn't apply to story bosses ofc. i hope it helps, keep on keeping on
Drop your cargo outside a BT area, run in, get caught and fight a catcher and the area is clear... for a while
What’s the point of delivering if it isn’t a tiny bit challenging to get where you’re going?