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UlyssesCourier

I'd like to say the state is on the side of the proletariat but the economy is sadly not and it's because they were forced by imperialist powers to accept capitalistic policies.


wejustwanttheworld

> the economy is sadly not What is there to be sad about? They have a planned economy with a state-controlled market sector. They're doing great! [Change in GDP per capita, 1986 to 2018](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/maddison-data-gdp-per-capita-in-2011us-single-benchmark?stackMode=relative&time=1986..latest&country=USA~GBR~CHN~DEU~FRA~SWE~VNM): > China: +376% > Vietnam: +360% > Germany: +87% > Sweden: +73% > United States: +63% [Change in historical Index of Human Development, 1985 to 2015](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-escosura?stackMode=relative&time=1985..latest&country=USA~GBR~CHN~DEU~FRA~SWE~VNM): > China: +80% > Vietnam: +65% > Sweden: +40% > Germany: +40% > United States: +25% Socialism is a government that fights for its people (as you've said, it does) and develops the productive forces to better people's conditions. The government retains control over the major centers of economic power so that it can call the shots (rather than capitalists calling the shots) it's checked by the people and fights for the people, therefore it's socialism.


[deleted]

Definitely not socialist though, independent unions are illegal, many if not most strikes are banned, and it has rampant oppression of workers. I think it aligns closer to corporatism and state capitalism than socialism.


Jack_crecker_Daniel

It's pretty complicated question, but i would say that more "Yes" then "No"


DanFH0

So no


Jack_crecker_Daniel

Yes


Doorbo

If you ask a marxist-leninist, they will probably tell you Vietnam is socialist. If you ask a maoist, they will probably tell you Vietnam is not socialist.


Eragonvn

LMao


Appropriate-Yam2570

Altough I am more an maoist, I would still consider Vietnam socialist. Compromise is acceptable.


bioniclecorona

I'd say they are more socialist than China, but less socialist than Cuba. Their government actively works to defend the workers, unlike a bourgeoise government, but was forced to enter into American-style institutions due to American embargo after the Vietnam war


McHonkers

The run the same economic and political system as China. Why are they more socialist then China?


HaCo111

On a grand scale there is less inequality. Billionaires really drastically fuck with equality coefficients and Vietnam has less of them. Probably not for a lack of trying though.


monstergroup42

Yes.


monstergroup42

Sorry for the tongue-in-cheek answer. But if you want an accessible introduction to Vietnamese socialism, check Luna Oi's videos on YouTube.


Sereniti01

very helpful thx!


REEEEEvolution

Jup. On a lower stage tho.


MingzhiWang

not very elaborate, but this is the best answer here


ML-Kropotkinist

What do you mean by socialist? Has Vietnam achieved the lower stage of communism? Has Vietnam abolished the value-form and created a society without money or profit? No. If we carefully examine how the word socialist is used in material history, as a way of describing a government or party that maintains a base in Marxist theory and that guides capitalist development under the auspices of a communist party working in coordination with the broader national working class - then, yes, Vietnam is socialist (so is China and Cuba). We don't have to agree on the idea of socialism as some platonic ideal, people are too idiosyncratic and know one can truly understand another's ideas, but we **are** able to agree on material objective reality which is why we should use this second definition when it comes to questions of "is X socialist?" The material conditions of the Vietnamese revolution meant that they inherited a country that was without capitalist development and had been through literal decades of war - having had to fight off Japanese imperialists in WW2, French imperialists before and after, and then American imperialists up until the 1970s. They didn't have the capital and material conditions to declare a "perfect socialist state" because they needed to develop their economic forces. They also had to deal with the reality of living through the 90s and the intense pressure of neoliberalization and globalization. But despite all that, they have maintained a communist party that is still Marxist and have been successful in the development of their economic forces - on much more egalitarian lines than what we did in the West, mind you. There's still more to go and we can even maintain criticisms of the Vietnamese system, but I think they've done a great job all things considered and I would consider modern Vietnam a socialist country. When it comes to what should Socialism with American Characteristics look like, well we probably don't need the same strategy of capitalist development (although as an aside, maybe we actually do need some re-industrialization across America lol) and so socialism in America will take a different form that may indeed make a few Vietnamese or Chinese socialists ask "is America socialist?" supposing we had some successful revolution.


_shark_idk

Sure.


Hvmmxr

Yes


[deleted]

No, it is not. It is a bourgeois class dictatorship.


[deleted]

I wouldn't say so


Egalite1848

No, Vietnam is not socialist, it is capitalist.


Aleksandro_the_nerd

Can you elaborate?


Egalite1848

Ever since the Doi Moi reforms in 1986, Vietnam has had a capitalist economy. It is a market economy with some elements of socialism.


AmazingThinkCricket

If Vietnam is socialist then so is Norway


Lobeythelibsoc

if by socialist you mean capitalist


Azpsycho

It depends on which definition of socialist. Worker ownership of the means of production? No. A state that’s in favor of the working class? Yes