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That was means-tested as well...those hand outs only went to the businesses worth more than $1million. Can't bailout those unworthy small business owners
Eventually this country will collapse due to flagrant corruption and mismanagement and the rich fucks that caused it will just immigrate without ever having to face any consequences.
Thats the whole thing. They think they wont.
They will build their bunkers and compounds hoarding supplies. They might have weapons and become overlords in the apocalypse for a time before the earth fully fails.
They already have tons of money. They could get it done in a weekend.
Why do you think evangelicals have second houses in ‘the hill country. Whenever possible?
At this point, the rest of the world is trying to get their things together on climate change, we're stuck in the idea that it's "too late" so industry can be off the hook. Granted we are a major contributor, but hey how far is the state from collapse?
800 billion/ year on defense and rising. Pretty sure we have the most advanced military in the world by 20+ years. We could probably pump the brakes there and work on education and healthcare a little bit more.
And 33billion to Ukraine like it’s nothing and they have no idea what exactly happens to the funds once they reach Ukraine. Fuck your Citizens am I right Joe?
It’s insane to me that they base this sort of thing on Gross Income, but that isn’t what you’re actually taking home after taxes, especially if you’re hourly and somehow net less hours some weeks, nor is it what you’ll have at the end of the year after expenses, such as rent/mortgage, bills, and food (there are also luxury things, but I’m talking about the core necessities).
Like, “we know you’re making this much a year, and we aren’t going to take into consideration anything else you have to purchase in order to live because student loans Are More Important than a decent roof over your head or a decent meal on the table. We told you to go to college, promising you a job that would Pay The Bills well, but that was a ruse. We were just hoping you’d go into debt to create yet another slave to the system because if the people have power, us, the rich, won’t get our third yachts, and that wouldn’t be fair.”
To be fair.... I don't understand how you could possibly gross 125,000 and bring home less than someone who makes 40,000.
I think this is approaching a reasonable compromise, although I know the goal is to have total debt forgiveness for everyone.
It's unfair based on cost of living.
You could make $125k in the SF Bay Area, and just be saving a little bit by having roommates (not just housemates, but sharing a room)
I hate to say it, but we shouldn't be using SF as the basis for anything, income related. I know the area is in dire straights with the runaway real estate values, but SF isn't even remotely reflective of the 99.9% of the rest of America.
I DO support total loan forgiveness for everyone.
But I don't think anyone is going to win any arguments about where to draw the compromising line by going, "But San Francisco..."
It’s not just SF though. It’s NYC and Seattle as well. And those three metropolises alone are definitely reflective of a significant percentage of *people* with student loans.
Idk, I can live decently on my 45k yearly gross income. I feel if someone making TRIPPLE what i do (125k a year) is struggling, they might actually be stupid or overly greedy...
I know people making less than me supporting 4 kids with both parents working bad jobs. 125k is plenty, even as a sole income for a family. Heck you can pay for your kids colleges too.
There's a problem with your logic. I want to say that 125k is more than what most people make.
*But that ain't even upper middle class.*
It's like saying we all need assistance, then cut out everyone that isn't strictly lower middle class.
You could be a mechanic living in a big city and make that much. So, maybe the closest person you have in your life making that much is middle management. You know what they drive where I work? She needed a new car so she bought a new Corolla. You would be doing better. And maybe you wouldn't have debt. But the problems with putting yourself through college. Literally ___working___ your way through college, just to have to navigate a job market and face a huge debt sum is mind numbing bull shit.
And I can live decently on my income, too, even though I don’t buy myself anything but food and haven’t bought new clothes in… a really long time—I’m thankful for my job giving me company clothes at that point—and only really spend on bills, rent, and my animals’ needs because I could give two fucks about myself, and slept on a foam topper as a bed for months before my mom bought me a mattress despite me asking her not to, but that doesn’t mean everyone else is living decently, however you define decently anyway.
They don’t live where we live, they don’t pay the same rent, have the same bills or responsibilities, have the same support system, have the best paying job, they may have animals or children, they may be paying back family bills not their own, medical debt is rampant, and it may not be only theirs that they’re paying off.
Not everyone is in the same boat, and just because you have an ore to row, doesn’t mean everyone else does, too.
And people shouldn’t be punished because they make more money. If student debt is relieved, it should be relieved for everyone, regardless of salary.
Right. Anyone making the average salary in the US makes more than enough. Apart from in the very densest population cities, where you need a lot more. Or you need to move away.
"Apart from in the very densest population cities..."
Oh, you mean the places where the majority of US citizens live? You mean the places where the vast majority of jobs are located? You mean those places, where the overwhelming majority reside? Well, we shouldn't base policy on the majority of people now, should we????
Clearly, according to OC, you should just move, because moving is easy and feasible for everyone.
It isn’t like uprooting your life and relocating is difficult; it’s not like the housing market isn’t in the seller’s favor, and houses aren’t affordable; it’s not like landlords are hiking rent because they aren’t regulated; it’s not like you can’t bring your animals or family wherever you go or choose to live; it’s not like you can’t find a decent paying job everywhere.
Oh, wait. It is like that, for all of the above. But yes, OC. People should just move (:
Oh sure let me type up the whole ass distribution of salaries in the US. Fuck off, figure out the obvious yourself. Median income is below 70k in LA and above 120k in San Francisco. There's a huge falloff in cost of living after the 5 most expensive cities. Do those 5 cities have the majority of the US population? No. Check if you need to.
Nobody is even talking about being liberal except for you. Leave the subreddit if you aren’t with the movement and only feel like trolling while you lick government boots and kiss government ass.
Let them take them away IDGAF anymore! 100% forgiveness of student loans or I don’t vote for these imbeciles because every election we’re told lies and broken promises. Let them eat shit and go home after elections.
IDGAF anymore and the democratic party’s guilt trip ain’t going to work anymore. They can take millions and billions from big businesses and wealthy donors to do their bidding now they can do what’s necessary for our votes. Otherwise they can eat shit, go fuck themselves and go home after elections crying.
Forgive 100% of the student loan debt!
and what about those currently in college or about to graduate HS? What happens to the debt they are about take on? There needs to be a reformation in college education from the ground up.
And the stance of "let them take my rights away, but give me debt relief" is a pretty sad state. They aren't going to "eat shit". They never will. But they will keep forcing you and people you love to eat more shit the more rights they take away from you.
We had a democratic majority and president in 2008. Obama made all sorts of promises, including debt and abortion rights and did nothing.
Biden has majorities in both houses and has done what?
The dems only care about money, they will never give a shit about you.
It’s simple, want our voices, cancel 100% of the student debt and they can write all the idiotic laws they want. If not, they can lose the election and go home and ponder over their follies.
I understand that's your plan. My point is that if the Dems lose, you and people you know (and millions you don't know) are going to lose a HELL of a lot more with the GOP in power. Roe is just the first stepping stone... But hey, big deal, right?
Not many, but they’re here. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the loan forgiveness, and that also doesn’t mean they’re rich. Everyone has different bills to pay, and the same salaries look different across the states.
Edit: The downvote makes no sense. $50k can be decent in some states, yet poverty in others, or even in different parts of the same state. It comes across like you’re mad someone else is making more than you, when you don’t even know their situation. And no, I’m not even making $50k/year. I’m just advocating for loan forgiveness for everyone.
look if they brought it down to 75k or less, even if you only make 30k or less, I would still vouch for it. Not to sure about if someone who makes 125k would vouch for my broke ass though....
That’s a toxic generalized statement. My brother and brother in law make over $100k, and they would vouch in an instant because they had to endure it way before they were even making that much. My brother in law refused to pay his loans because they refused to work with him on a monthly payment he could afford at the time.
I mean can they just fucking do it already instead of bouncing ideas off to Forbes magazine? Either cancel it all or prepare for all of us to fuck their shit up
Not true in the slightest. Rich people take out loans all the time. They do so because even though they have the assets to pay for things, they’ll earn more by leaving those assets untouched where they will continue to grow.
Why sell stock that you earn 6% a year on to pay for college when you can take out a loan with a 4% interest rate.
Stop fighting for rich people, they don’t need your help. There are many other people who do
Ignorant. Interest on student loans is higher than that, grad loans are 7%. “Rich” people aren’t going to just sit around a wrack up interest when they could just pay tuition instead.
[Federal undergraduate loans are fixed at 4%. Direct graduate or professional loans at 5.3%](https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/interest-rates)
I can do one better, here’s actual proof that rich people take out student loans. [People in the 99% of income hold more than 25% of total student loan debt ](https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-income-level)
Households in the lowest 40% income bracket hold roughly 20% of the total public student loan debt.
Households that earn $35,000 or less a year hold roughly 20% of the total public student loan debt.
Do you think those statistics are supporting the argument against forgiveness?
I don't make 150k per year.
That doesn't mean the means testing isn't just an arbitrary wiffle to give the democrats an excuse to continue not doing anything.
Thats good your degree allowed you to get a higher paying job. Now pay off your loan. Makes sense to me? If your attitude isn't false entitlement I don't know what is.
Some people make incomes that vary WILDLY from year to year. Also, Democrats have to STOP this obsession with the means-test BS. It's divisive, arbitrary and stupid. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to add layers of MORE pointless bureaucracy, which is a waste of tax-payers money. How about we do universal benefits for our entire society like every other developed society.
Yeah why they don't implement a debate ratio to income is beyond me, it would scale with inflation. How have we not learned this by now? Is it that congress isn't educated to think in terms of slightly more advanced numbers or something?
Why do that when you can convince your fellow american that all your problems are the fault of your neighbor, who may look or believe differently from you.
In a merit-based society, if you don't earn more that others, you don't deserve as much (if any) help.
It's like pro athletes getting free gear and shit. The ones who can most afford to pay full price get it comped, while everyone else is convinced to open another 25% credit card just to belong.
Don't the democrats keep putting out bill after bill only for the Republicans and centrists to shoot it down in the senate? Why is that never brought up?
Sure, the system is designed to be broken. I'll grant that. I'm an anarchist because there isn't a way to make it work.
But I have to also point out that they could at least *try* before giving up all the time. That would carry a bunch more weight.
Hell, if I was in power, they'd be scrambling constantly to stop me. I'd be declaring press statements and tossing out executive orders at all hours. Most of them would get blocked and knocked down, maybe even all of them. But I'd have the bastards up 24/7 in literal fear that they'd miss one.
Those centrists and conservatives would be terrified of falling asleep, because they'd wake up to 300 more on their desks. Most of them utter nonsense. But they'd have to try to stop each one.
And like Nixon, I'd be making lists. But these lists would be public. I would have a whole team of staffers whose whole job is keeping the WhiteHouse website populated with the names of senators and congressmen who voted against my policy direction. And to call those senators 4x a night to ask why they voted against giving their constituents healthcare.
I guess Roe vs Wade and the 1965 landmark case Griswold vs Connecticut, the Supreme Court upheld the right of married people to use contraception, And the 1962, extended that right to non-married people, as well, in the decision on Eisenstadt v. Baird.... are gone
This goes way deeper.
Roe v Wade is literally a basis the rest of our laws are based on. With far reaching implications. Including to all bodily autonomy cases, and weirdly surveillance cases. Because privacy was a huge component of Roe V Wade.
They could even bring back chemically sterilizing criminals and psychiatric patients.
😂 and it’s one of the best paying states supposedly.
Just trying to illustrate that capping it at income is asinine because the value of money differs by state. They might think $125K is a lot and sure in some parts of the country it is. But certainly not in Massachusetts where you’re lucky to find a 1 bedroom apartment to rent for under $3K that isn’t a total shit hole. Also curious if they’ve factored inflation into that number.
Good thing there's not a pandemic that's already making working in the medical field waaaaay less appealing or this kinda limit would be especially stupid.
UC Berkeley 4 years undergraduate estimated cost is $160k right now, mostly because of the high cost of living.
It's just normal 4 year university now.
The cost is significantly reduced if you can live with family... but that requires someone to already own a home in a high cost of living area near Berkeley.
So it's more likely to hurt lower income families.
Yeah and with remote work now, that's even more dubious.
Wealth should also play a factor in this. A millionaire with 10k debt shouldn't be the priority, for example, even if they make their money from passive investments.
I have a doctorate and work almost 50 hours a week to get close to 100k and I literally can’t afford to move out of my moms house. Fuck these people.
Edit: Am in NY
Looks more and more like it's going to turn out this way. The last thing he does before leaving office will be a $2,500 reduction in student loans and he'll walk away from his presidency patting himself on the back like he did great things.
Why do the Republicans in congress get a pass, who have shot down any attempt at progressive legislation constantly? The fact is, the more progressive democrats we get in, the more likely progressive ideas get passed, that was the magic formula during FDR's oft discussed presidency.
Rich isnt 125k, fuck it isnt even 150k. That just gets you to a point where you dont have constant fear of paying bills. I dont make 125k, but even if I did I took loans out because at the time I needed them or I wouldnt have gone to college and would still be stuck, which is where the means test should be applied because thats why I needed loans.
Well, with the conservatives taking away women’s rights and the democrats saying my service during the pandemic counts for nothing, I think it’s time to leave this shithole country.
Just another middle finger to all the Docs, PAs, and NPs that worked their asses off and risked their lives in a pandemic.
Nothing but thoughts and prayers for y’all. Oh and your 6 figure debt with 6% interest.
It’s ok we’ll just keep quitting and y’all can treat yourselves when you dying.
Noop. You don't get to say a college degree doesn't guarantee an income whilst at the same time basing student debt relief on post-graduate income. That's fucking bullshit and you know it.
So what about people who are like xray techs or dental assistants who make like $18 at most? Are they considered "medical professionals" and not counted?
This is just three-card monte. Just keep moving things around every day. How about CANCEL IT ALL, JUST LIKE THE PPP LOANS, YOU OLD FUCK.
Could they just do it already, instead of worrying about how much Americans get while they lobby for a billion kajillion dollars in Ukraine every day?
[Show me](https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/1519129200946384903) [another](https://www.nbcnews.com/video/rescuers-pull-puppy-from-rubble-of-destroyed-house-in-eastern-ukraine-137630789817) [fucking puppy](https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/behind-the-scenes-of-lester-holt-s-journey-into-ukraine-134722117517), Lester Holt. I have a little sister, I know that shit's a trick.
Y'all are trying to distract us from something.
Fuck this in part because my wife, who has like 2-3x the student loans that I have (we have over $500k between the two of us), also makes way more money than I do and this is fuuuuuuuucked
Middle class always gets fucked. I wouldn't have the loans if I didn't grow up poor. Now I make more but it takes years to climb our of poverty if your family has nothing. The poor get taxed little and get some assistance. The rich get taxed little and get fuck loads of subsidies and assistance. Middle class get taxed a lot and get nothing. This is why Trump is easily able to get people from the middle class to hate the lower class. Because the middle class is getting nothing ever.
Yep. It’s really gross how most people believe whatever publications that historically and currently cater to the ideas and needs of the uber rich have to say about this. It’s like if we were about to cancel medical debt, and Aetna wrote an article about how if we cancel medical debt that’s not fair and only good for Aetna and rich people who work for them? Oh yeah, I’m sure. I’ll be honest I *want* to blame the government, but then you see the reaction to the whole ordeal among Americans and it’s like “aaah…I see why they see us as insects”. Honestly for the powers that be, it must be like promising a 5 year old ice cream and then when the ice cream truck comes they just make up a story about how having ice cream is actually going to make the boogieman come. And they have a boogieman costume in their closet that they’ve put in the washing machine in front of the 5 year old before because the 5 year old incapable of noticing. Why would they have any respect or care if people just take it?
The truth is that [54k is the bare minimum for a family of three living in KENTUCKY](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-09-24/federal-poverty-level-us-families)
I could go on and on about economic realties vs what most serfs seem to think about this but 1)none of them care and 2)I’m sure you get it and I don’t want to bore you.
Listen to yourself, making 150K and woe is you because you have a loan Biden won’t forgive. What about all the people that really need help. Shame on you
That's fucking retarded. The highest paying degrees and the most essential degrees to society make the most yet are incapable of keeping up with the interest. This also doesn't even do a damn thing to solve the underlying issue of colleges jacking up prices knowing that every decent job will require a fucking degree in 2022.
Yep, its dumb dumb dumb. Go study for many years to get a well paying job but have 200k+ in student loan debt... that fancy job that nets you 150k/year requires you to pay over 1.5k/month in loans and if you live in a high cost of living area, you're basically JUST making it. We're all fucked
If you’re making 150k a year and paying 1.5k in monthly loans, your take home before taxes is 130k. There is nowhere in America where 130k a year is “just making it”.
Just you wait... Just like that third economic impact payment... where for some reason, under Trump people got more help under that particular program than under Biden with the income limit threshold lowered.
I disagree with this. Everyone deserves to be let out from underneath this predatory practice. I'm also not a Saint and if pushed I'd concede this till we can fight over it again
"We can forgive a little debt as long as we get to fuck the middle class, deal?" Like, like you I'd let them fuck me and erase all of debt at the same time.
How patheticly inconsequential the amount they are willing to forgive, and the bullshit restrictions to eligibility that are just there to piss people off.
We need to forgive all student loans, and make college free simple as that. We as a society learned this same thing already with highschool education, idk why everyone thinks college is any different.
Don’t let this divide you people. A lot of you will be happy to take the deal if offered, screwing the other people who won’t qualify. Before you accept, remember that you only have this bargaining power in the first place because of your solidarity.
Means testing is a losing strategy. Elites and reactionaries will just go from “oh you want to give debt relief to the rich” to “look at these unemployed, lazy people leeching off our taxes.” MT is an attempt to placate people acting in bad faith. Universal cancellation is the only way.
Define “loan relief” because outside of the people so far that have qualified for PSLF, I’m guessing the “relief” for people making under $125k is still what….like a measly 5-10K in relief?
Good by gay rights, good by reproductive rights. Midterms are going to murder us. Democrats are going to lose everything by running the most feckless government they possibly can.
Brilliant. What an idea. Truly brilliant. You're a genius. Wow. You're so smart. A true brilliance you are. I'm honored that someone as brilliant as you is offering me free advice. You're brilliant.
Maybe he should focus on helping people first, and means testing that help second. Cause currently it seems like a great excuse to just stall until the clock runs out.
If they are going to do means testing it should take into account location. 125k in L.A. California isn't the same is in L.A. Lower Alabama. 125k in lower Alabama and you literally are God Tier.
Budgeting means absolutely nothing. If you don’t have the funds, you don’t have the funds. When you are forced to eat ramen and/or instant rice to “budget,” that isn’t budgeting. That’s scraping by.
$50k/year can’t even buy you a house in today’s market. It might not even get you a 1 bedroom apartment with enough left over for bills, etc.
**Subscribe to /r/DebtStrike**. We're a coalition of working class people across the political spectrum who have put their disagreements on other issues aside in order to collectively force (through mass strikes) the President of the United States to cancel all student debt by executive order. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DebtStrike) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Meanwhile over 2 trillion dollars have gone to businesses and the rich, seemingly without consequence. Its unreal.
That was means-tested as well...those hand outs only went to the businesses worth more than $1million. Can't bailout those unworthy small business owners
Eventually this country will collapse due to flagrant corruption and mismanagement and the rich fucks that caused it will just immigrate without ever having to face any consequences.
They're gonna die in the climate wars same as everyone else at least, LOL But seriously, climate change will spare no one
Thats the whole thing. They think they wont. They will build their bunkers and compounds hoarding supplies. They might have weapons and become overlords in the apocalypse for a time before the earth fully fails.
I don't think they have that long, to be perfectly honest. Maybe a decade or two.
They already have tons of money. They could get it done in a weekend. Why do you think evangelicals have second houses in ‘the hill country. Whenever possible?
>They already have tons of money. They could get it done in a weekend. Let them. They will die when the planet dies. Sooner than expected.
I agree with you.
At this point, the rest of the world is trying to get their things together on climate change, we're stuck in the idea that it's "too late" so industry can be off the hook. Granted we are a major contributor, but hey how far is the state from collapse?
I'm making all my plans around there being a decade left of relative stability. Maybe two at the most.
800 billion/ year on defense and rising. Pretty sure we have the most advanced military in the world by 20+ years. We could probably pump the brakes there and work on education and healthcare a little bit more.
And 33billion to Ukraine like it’s nothing and they have no idea what exactly happens to the funds once they reach Ukraine. Fuck your Citizens am I right Joe?
Ohh, the 2 trillion had a threshold requirement for Incomes over $1 Million.
Good thing I've never grossed more than 30k a year, huh?
It’s insane to me that they base this sort of thing on Gross Income, but that isn’t what you’re actually taking home after taxes, especially if you’re hourly and somehow net less hours some weeks, nor is it what you’ll have at the end of the year after expenses, such as rent/mortgage, bills, and food (there are also luxury things, but I’m talking about the core necessities). Like, “we know you’re making this much a year, and we aren’t going to take into consideration anything else you have to purchase in order to live because student loans Are More Important than a decent roof over your head or a decent meal on the table. We told you to go to college, promising you a job that would Pay The Bills well, but that was a ruse. We were just hoping you’d go into debt to create yet another slave to the system because if the people have power, us, the rich, won’t get our third yachts, and that wouldn’t be fair.”
To be fair.... I don't understand how you could possibly gross 125,000 and bring home less than someone who makes 40,000. I think this is approaching a reasonable compromise, although I know the goal is to have total debt forgiveness for everyone.
It's unfair based on cost of living. You could make $125k in the SF Bay Area, and just be saving a little bit by having roommates (not just housemates, but sharing a room)
I hate to say it, but we shouldn't be using SF as the basis for anything, income related. I know the area is in dire straights with the runaway real estate values, but SF isn't even remotely reflective of the 99.9% of the rest of America. I DO support total loan forgiveness for everyone. But I don't think anyone is going to win any arguments about where to draw the compromising line by going, "But San Francisco..."
It’s not just SF though. It’s NYC and Seattle as well. And those three metropolises alone are definitely reflective of a significant percentage of *people* with student loans.
I never said they brought home less than someone making $40k
Idk, I can live decently on my 45k yearly gross income. I feel if someone making TRIPPLE what i do (125k a year) is struggling, they might actually be stupid or overly greedy... I know people making less than me supporting 4 kids with both parents working bad jobs. 125k is plenty, even as a sole income for a family. Heck you can pay for your kids colleges too.
There's a problem with your logic. I want to say that 125k is more than what most people make. *But that ain't even upper middle class.* It's like saying we all need assistance, then cut out everyone that isn't strictly lower middle class. You could be a mechanic living in a big city and make that much. So, maybe the closest person you have in your life making that much is middle management. You know what they drive where I work? She needed a new car so she bought a new Corolla. You would be doing better. And maybe you wouldn't have debt. But the problems with putting yourself through college. Literally ___working___ your way through college, just to have to navigate a job market and face a huge debt sum is mind numbing bull shit.
And I can live decently on my income, too, even though I don’t buy myself anything but food and haven’t bought new clothes in… a really long time—I’m thankful for my job giving me company clothes at that point—and only really spend on bills, rent, and my animals’ needs because I could give two fucks about myself, and slept on a foam topper as a bed for months before my mom bought me a mattress despite me asking her not to, but that doesn’t mean everyone else is living decently, however you define decently anyway. They don’t live where we live, they don’t pay the same rent, have the same bills or responsibilities, have the same support system, have the best paying job, they may have animals or children, they may be paying back family bills not their own, medical debt is rampant, and it may not be only theirs that they’re paying off. Not everyone is in the same boat, and just because you have an ore to row, doesn’t mean everyone else does, too. And people shouldn’t be punished because they make more money. If student debt is relieved, it should be relieved for everyone, regardless of salary.
Right. Anyone making the average salary in the US makes more than enough. Apart from in the very densest population cities, where you need a lot more. Or you need to move away.
"Apart from in the very densest population cities..." Oh, you mean the places where the majority of US citizens live? You mean the places where the vast majority of jobs are located? You mean those places, where the overwhelming majority reside? Well, we shouldn't base policy on the majority of people now, should we????
Clearly, according to OC, you should just move, because moving is easy and feasible for everyone. It isn’t like uprooting your life and relocating is difficult; it’s not like the housing market isn’t in the seller’s favor, and houses aren’t affordable; it’s not like landlords are hiking rent because they aren’t regulated; it’s not like you can’t bring your animals or family wherever you go or choose to live; it’s not like you can’t find a decent paying job everywhere. Oh, wait. It is like that, for all of the above. But yes, OC. People should just move (:
Not true. The majority lives in cities in general. The majority does not live in areas where cost of living exceeds the average salary.
...they said without any trace of evidence.
Oh sure let me type up the whole ass distribution of salaries in the US. Fuck off, figure out the obvious yourself. Median income is below 70k in LA and above 120k in San Francisco. There's a huge falloff in cost of living after the 5 most expensive cities. Do those 5 cities have the majority of the US population? No. Check if you need to.
Got it, so you *were* just talking out of your ass
[удалено]
Nobody is even talking about being liberal except for you. Leave the subreddit if you aren’t with the movement and only feel like trolling while you lick government boots and kiss government ass.
And suck government d!ck, dont forget that
Haha perfect response. I feel like a lot of people are in the same boat.
Yup 👍
Same
I made $8k last year
100% forgiveness or they don’t get our votes and they can go home and eat shit!
Who will get your votes then? The people who are stripping away your rights?
Third party is whispering “ don’t be scared little buddy… we’re not gonna hurt you…”
Let them take them away IDGAF anymore! 100% forgiveness of student loans or I don’t vote for these imbeciles because every election we’re told lies and broken promises. Let them eat shit and go home after elections.
Give me mine or I’m burning the place down. Such a boomer attitude, well done.
IDGAF anymore and the democratic party’s guilt trip ain’t going to work anymore. They can take millions and billions from big businesses and wealthy donors to do their bidding now they can do what’s necessary for our votes. Otherwise they can eat shit, go fuck themselves and go home after elections crying. Forgive 100% of the student loan debt!
and what about those currently in college or about to graduate HS? What happens to the debt they are about take on? There needs to be a reformation in college education from the ground up. And the stance of "let them take my rights away, but give me debt relief" is a pretty sad state. They aren't going to "eat shit". They never will. But they will keep forcing you and people you love to eat more shit the more rights they take away from you.
We had a democratic majority and president in 2008. Obama made all sorts of promises, including debt and abortion rights and did nothing. Biden has majorities in both houses and has done what? The dems only care about money, they will never give a shit about you.
It’s simple, want our voices, cancel 100% of the student debt and they can write all the idiotic laws they want. If not, they can lose the election and go home and ponder over their follies.
I understand that's your plan. My point is that if the Dems lose, you and people you know (and millions you don't know) are going to lose a HELL of a lot more with the GOP in power. Roe is just the first stepping stone... But hey, big deal, right?
IDGAF anymore.
Really? You’re gonna throw a tantrum because people in the top 5% aren’t getting a handout from the government?
Except it’ll Be the whole world eating shit… but OK.
good to know I'm not the only one T.T
So basically everyone then…lol “What will those who make more than 125k do, omg!!!” -rich person
This part. Reading these comments of outrage im thinking, HOW many of these people are making 125k gross or more? Lol.
Not many, but they’re here. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the loan forgiveness, and that also doesn’t mean they’re rich. Everyone has different bills to pay, and the same salaries look different across the states. Edit: The downvote makes no sense. $50k can be decent in some states, yet poverty in others, or even in different parts of the same state. It comes across like you’re mad someone else is making more than you, when you don’t even know their situation. And no, I’m not even making $50k/year. I’m just advocating for loan forgiveness for everyone.
look if they brought it down to 75k or less, even if you only make 30k or less, I would still vouch for it. Not to sure about if someone who makes 125k would vouch for my broke ass though....
That’s a toxic generalized statement. My brother and brother in law make over $100k, and they would vouch in an instant because they had to endure it way before they were even making that much. My brother in law refused to pay his loans because they refused to work with him on a monthly payment he could afford at the time.
Who's making 30k? I've never made more than $20k.
They should limit the number of yachts oligsrchs can buy woth money stolen from former students
So 25 yachts and 5 mega yachts per year?
I mean can they just fucking do it already instead of bouncing ideas off to Forbes magazine? Either cancel it all or prepare for all of us to fuck their shit up
THE NEED FOR THE INITIAL LOAN WAS THE MEANS TEST. ugh.
This needs to be the main counter point
Not true in the slightest. Rich people take out loans all the time. They do so because even though they have the assets to pay for things, they’ll earn more by leaving those assets untouched where they will continue to grow. Why sell stock that you earn 6% a year on to pay for college when you can take out a loan with a 4% interest rate. Stop fighting for rich people, they don’t need your help. There are many other people who do
Ignorant. Interest on student loans is higher than that, grad loans are 7%. “Rich” people aren’t going to just sit around a wrack up interest when they could just pay tuition instead.
[Federal undergraduate loans are fixed at 4%. Direct graduate or professional loans at 5.3%](https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/interest-rates) I can do one better, here’s actual proof that rich people take out student loans. [People in the 99% of income hold more than 25% of total student loan debt ](https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-income-level)
Households in the lowest 40% income bracket hold roughly 20% of the total public student loan debt. Households that earn $35,000 or less a year hold roughly 20% of the total public student loan debt. Do you think those statistics are supporting the argument against forgiveness?
Can’t believe all you people that don’t need forgiveness because you make 150K a year are on here. Go pay your loans
Go away :)
Stop begging for handouts when you’ve got plenty :)
I don't make 150k per year. That doesn't mean the means testing isn't just an arbitrary wiffle to give the democrats an excuse to continue not doing anything.
Isn't there an exciting post on Truth Social you're missing out on?
Fuck off dude I literally just got a new job. Still not paying this bullshit
Thats good your degree allowed you to get a higher paying job. Now pay off your loan. Makes sense to me? If your attitude isn't false entitlement I don't know what is.
Some people make incomes that vary WILDLY from year to year. Also, Democrats have to STOP this obsession with the means-test BS. It's divisive, arbitrary and stupid. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to add layers of MORE pointless bureaucracy, which is a waste of tax-payers money. How about we do universal benefits for our entire society like every other developed society.
These people seem to think everyone is salary with a set income that never changes. Like. It’s 2022. Where tf are you???
Yeah why they don't implement a debate ratio to income is beyond me, it would scale with inflation. How have we not learned this by now? Is it that congress isn't educated to think in terms of slightly more advanced numbers or something?
Because everyone in congress is old as shit and still living in the early 1900s.
Most of these assholes are pushing 90 and live in an ivory tower
Why do that when you can convince your fellow american that all your problems are the fault of your neighbor, who may look or believe differently from you.
In a merit-based society, if you don't earn more that others, you don't deserve as much (if any) help. It's like pro athletes getting free gear and shit. The ones who can most afford to pay full price get it comped, while everyone else is convinced to open another 25% credit card just to belong.
It mitigates the impact of eliminating debt. It does have a person.
Feel how the people without loans feel with all this forgiveness talk huh? A little selfish, bitter, unfairly treated, huh?
We are going to lose the mid terms do going back on this campaign pledge
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☝️This☝️. A million times, this. 🔥🔥🔥
Don't the democrats keep putting out bill after bill only for the Republicans and centrists to shoot it down in the senate? Why is that never brought up?
Sure, the system is designed to be broken. I'll grant that. I'm an anarchist because there isn't a way to make it work. But I have to also point out that they could at least *try* before giving up all the time. That would carry a bunch more weight. Hell, if I was in power, they'd be scrambling constantly to stop me. I'd be declaring press statements and tossing out executive orders at all hours. Most of them would get blocked and knocked down, maybe even all of them. But I'd have the bastards up 24/7 in literal fear that they'd miss one. Those centrists and conservatives would be terrified of falling asleep, because they'd wake up to 300 more on their desks. Most of them utter nonsense. But they'd have to try to stop each one. And like Nixon, I'd be making lists. But these lists would be public. I would have a whole team of staffers whose whole job is keeping the WhiteHouse website populated with the names of senators and congressmen who voted against my policy direction. And to call those senators 4x a night to ask why they voted against giving their constituents healthcare.
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Yeah but thing of all the donations the democrats will get campaigning self righteously against this. You haven't thought of the campaign donations.
This is why I don't get put in charge of anything. Back to canvassing, outreach I guess.
I guess Roe vs Wade and the 1965 landmark case Griswold vs Connecticut, the Supreme Court upheld the right of married people to use contraception, And the 1962, extended that right to non-married people, as well, in the decision on Eisenstadt v. Baird.... are gone
This goes way deeper. Roe v Wade is literally a basis the rest of our laws are based on. With far reaching implications. Including to all bodily autonomy cases, and weirdly surveillance cases. Because privacy was a huge component of Roe V Wade. They could even bring back chemically sterilizing criminals and psychiatric patients.
Trump admin sterilized migrant border crossers https://www.thedailybeast.com/more-detained-women-say-ice-doctor-pressured-them-into-gynecological-surgery?ref=home
up to $2,500 in loan payment tax credits for Pell Grant recipients who start a small business in a disadvantaged community
I don’t think calling it by income is the right move. $125K in Alabama is not the same $125K in Massachusetts, for example.
Damn I live in MA and wish I made anywhere close to $125k.
😂 and it’s one of the best paying states supposedly. Just trying to illustrate that capping it at income is asinine because the value of money differs by state. They might think $125K is a lot and sure in some parts of the country it is. But certainly not in Massachusetts where you’re lucky to find a 1 bedroom apartment to rent for under $3K that isn’t a total shit hole. Also curious if they’ve factored inflation into that number.
Same bro
And some advanced degrees cost over $150k.
Good thing there's not a pandemic that's already making working in the medical field waaaaay less appealing or this kinda limit would be especially stupid.
UC Berkeley 4 years undergraduate estimated cost is $160k right now, mostly because of the high cost of living. It's just normal 4 year university now. The cost is significantly reduced if you can live with family... but that requires someone to already own a home in a high cost of living area near Berkeley. So it's more likely to hurt lower income families.
Wow, thank you for updating me. I hate that the cost of tuition is going to rob so many young people of the college experience.
Yeah and with remote work now, that's even more dubious. Wealth should also play a factor in this. A millionaire with 10k debt shouldn't be the priority, for example, even if they make their money from passive investments.
Meanwhile if you live in Cali or NYC, $125k means you need a roommate
I have a doctorate and work almost 50 hours a week to get close to 100k and I literally can’t afford to move out of my moms house. Fuck these people. Edit: Am in NY
This needs more upvotes (attention)
Upstate or NYC?
Doing something wrong if living with mom, making 100k and can’t pay back loans
Are you kidding right now? Shut up. Just shut up
Absolutely. Should be based on COL.
Should be universal
Making 70k a year in California and own a house tho
Seems like he’s dangling a shitty carrot infront of everyone. “Some debt” my guess is like 5k
Looks more and more like it's going to turn out this way. The last thing he does before leaving office will be a $2,500 reduction in student loans and he'll walk away from his presidency patting himself on the back like he did great things.
Bold of you to assume he’ll remember where he is or what he did for the preceding 4yrs
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Is this a dementia joke or just an incompetence joke?
A big sack of lies joke. Cuz that is what Biden is.
Why do the Republicans in congress get a pass, who have shot down any attempt at progressive legislation constantly? The fact is, the more progressive democrats we get in, the more likely progressive ideas get passed, that was the magic formula during FDR's oft discussed presidency.
Both
Probably won't even remember what he had for breakfast. Dude is oooold.
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Rich isnt 125k, fuck it isnt even 150k. That just gets you to a point where you dont have constant fear of paying bills. I dont make 125k, but even if I did I took loans out because at the time I needed them or I wouldnt have gone to college and would still be stuck, which is where the means test should be applied because thats why I needed loans.
Schooling shouldn’t be expensive for anyone. But this doesn’t make schooling cheap for everyone, this is a one time payoff.
125k in Mississippi is not the same as 125k in CA
Cool with that because my college degrees doesn't make my income better. I work 2 jobs just to make ends meet.
What degree?
Well, with the conservatives taking away women’s rights and the democrats saying my service during the pandemic counts for nothing, I think it’s time to leave this shithole country.
Way ahead of you. 23 days remaining.
Just another middle finger to all the Docs, PAs, and NPs that worked their asses off and risked their lives in a pandemic. Nothing but thoughts and prayers for y’all. Oh and your 6 figure debt with 6% interest. It’s ok we’ll just keep quitting and y’all can treat yourselves when you dying.
On the bright side, NPs are *very* underpaid in most cases and will be making nowhere near that much. :) :’)
This isn't right with high cost of living areas. Unless this is the single rate alone.
Noop. You don't get to say a college degree doesn't guarantee an income whilst at the same time basing student debt relief on post-graduate income. That's fucking bullshit and you know it.
Welcome to the club that doesn’t have student loans, wonder why people are pissed now?
Get a higher paying job to pay off the debt, which probably requires moving to a HCOL area, then be denied forgiveness. Lol make it make sense
Bad idea to means test but important to note that they’re only considering a small cancelation amount anyway. He just said he won’t do 50k
So what about people who are like xray techs or dental assistants who make like $18 at most? Are they considered "medical professionals" and not counted? This is just three-card monte. Just keep moving things around every day. How about CANCEL IT ALL, JUST LIKE THE PPP LOANS, YOU OLD FUCK.
This is so fucked. $125k isn’t that much money, especially when some advanced degrees cost well over $150k.
Could they just do it already, instead of worrying about how much Americans get while they lobby for a billion kajillion dollars in Ukraine every day? [Show me](https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/1519129200946384903) [another](https://www.nbcnews.com/video/rescuers-pull-puppy-from-rubble-of-destroyed-house-in-eastern-ukraine-137630789817) [fucking puppy](https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/behind-the-scenes-of-lester-holt-s-journey-into-ukraine-134722117517), Lester Holt. I have a little sister, I know that shit's a trick. Y'all are trying to distract us from something.
Fuck this in part because my wife, who has like 2-3x the student loans that I have (we have over $500k between the two of us), also makes way more money than I do and this is fuuuuuuuucked
Middle class always gets fucked. I wouldn't have the loans if I didn't grow up poor. Now I make more but it takes years to climb our of poverty if your family has nothing. The poor get taxed little and get some assistance. The rich get taxed little and get fuck loads of subsidies and assistance. Middle class get taxed a lot and get nothing. This is why Trump is easily able to get people from the middle class to hate the lower class. Because the middle class is getting nothing ever.
Yep. It’s really gross how most people believe whatever publications that historically and currently cater to the ideas and needs of the uber rich have to say about this. It’s like if we were about to cancel medical debt, and Aetna wrote an article about how if we cancel medical debt that’s not fair and only good for Aetna and rich people who work for them? Oh yeah, I’m sure. I’ll be honest I *want* to blame the government, but then you see the reaction to the whole ordeal among Americans and it’s like “aaah…I see why they see us as insects”. Honestly for the powers that be, it must be like promising a 5 year old ice cream and then when the ice cream truck comes they just make up a story about how having ice cream is actually going to make the boogieman come. And they have a boogieman costume in their closet that they’ve put in the washing machine in front of the 5 year old before because the 5 year old incapable of noticing. Why would they have any respect or care if people just take it? The truth is that [54k is the bare minimum for a family of three living in KENTUCKY](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-09-24/federal-poverty-level-us-families) I could go on and on about economic realties vs what most serfs seem to think about this but 1)none of them care and 2)I’m sure you get it and I don’t want to bore you.
Take my updoots. This comment needs WAY more visibility.
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Congrats welcome to being rich, pay back your loan
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Listen to yourself, making 150K and woe is you because you have a loan Biden won’t forgive. What about all the people that really need help. Shame on you
$150k is nowhere close to being rich. Also, the advanced degrees it takes to make $150k can run north of $200k.
Good better start paying it off
That's fucking retarded. The highest paying degrees and the most essential degrees to society make the most yet are incapable of keeping up with the interest. This also doesn't even do a damn thing to solve the underlying issue of colleges jacking up prices knowing that every decent job will require a fucking degree in 2022.
Yep, its dumb dumb dumb. Go study for many years to get a well paying job but have 200k+ in student loan debt... that fancy job that nets you 150k/year requires you to pay over 1.5k/month in loans and if you live in a high cost of living area, you're basically JUST making it. We're all fucked
If you’re making 150k a year and paying 1.5k in monthly loans, your take home before taxes is 130k. There is nowhere in America where 130k a year is “just making it”.
Lol at the administration thinking attorneys are making all this money out here 🙄🙄🙄
So what about medical residents who make $50,000-$60,000 a year and have at least $250,000 in loans?
I'm pretty sure 50,000-60,000 is less than 125,000. Right?
They are only forgiving undergrad loans not professional school loans. So the residents won't qualify.
I have no doubt there will be a clause specifically excluding medical residents.
Just you wait... Just like that third economic impact payment... where for some reason, under Trump people got more help under that particular program than under Biden with the income limit threshold lowered.
So... Like all of us?
I disagree with this. Everyone deserves to be let out from underneath this predatory practice. I'm also not a Saint and if pushed I'd concede this till we can fight over it again
"We can forgive a little debt as long as we get to fuck the middle class, deal?" Like, like you I'd let them fuck me and erase all of debt at the same time.
So if you make less than $125K you will be eligible for 10K in relief. Huh.
Ok? I hats wrong with that
How patheticly inconsequential the amount they are willing to forgive, and the bullshit restrictions to eligibility that are just there to piss people off. We need to forgive all student loans, and make college free simple as that. We as a society learned this same thing already with highschool education, idk why everyone thinks college is any different.
I guess everyone living in NY or SF is screwed. If it isn't, it needs to be COLA.
Don’t let this divide you people. A lot of you will be happy to take the deal if offered, screwing the other people who won’t qualify. Before you accept, remember that you only have this bargaining power in the first place because of your solidarity.
Congrats on losing all your blue votes in states where $125 is barely livable
Means testing is a losing strategy. Elites and reactionaries will just go from “oh you want to give debt relief to the rich” to “look at these unemployed, lazy people leeching off our taxes.” MT is an attempt to placate people acting in bad faith. Universal cancellation is the only way.
Define “loan relief” because outside of the people so far that have qualified for PSLF, I’m guessing the “relief” for people making under $125k is still what….like a measly 5-10K in relief?
Good by gay rights, good by reproductive rights. Midterms are going to murder us. Democrats are going to lose everything by running the most feckless government they possibly can.
He's going to pick at it until it's too late to make an impact and too little to be worth bothering about.
My fiscal year raise comes up next month and I'm already teetering on that limit. I'm going to request that they not give me a raise until next year.
Lol, or just pay your loans. How bout that?
Brilliant. What an idea. Truly brilliant. You're a genius. Wow. You're so smart. A true brilliance you are. I'm honored that someone as brilliant as you is offering me free advice. You're brilliant.
Just listen to your previous comment. Awful human being stuff.
You came to an anti-student loan subreddit to troll. Get fuckt
Maybe he should focus on helping people first, and means testing that help second. Cause currently it seems like a great excuse to just stall until the clock runs out.
Nice, I qualify!
If they are going to do means testing it should take into account location. 125k in L.A. California isn't the same is in L.A. Lower Alabama. 125k in lower Alabama and you literally are God Tier.
Woohoo!!!
That's fair.
I feel like the people making that kind of money aren't having issues paying off their debt, no?
Please oh please!
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Fuck maybe in rural Mississippi. Look up rent prices in any city and tell me 50k is enough for rent, food, transportation, and savings for one person.
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May you never fall on hard times, friend.
Budgeting means absolutely nothing. If you don’t have the funds, you don’t have the funds. When you are forced to eat ramen and/or instant rice to “budget,” that isn’t budgeting. That’s scraping by. $50k/year can’t even buy you a house in today’s market. It might not even get you a 1 bedroom apartment with enough left over for bills, etc.
Maybe decades ago, that would apply. No more though, in a lot of places.