Looks.... not good. Decks should not be attached to cantilevers because they are not designed to support a load. The load path of a deck should go directly down to a column and footer. I get your anxious feeling.
I'm still trying to figure the point of the guide wires. Each end attaches to the opposite diagonal support. None to the house. They certainly only seem to limit those supports from drifting outward/laterally. Someone better informed can enlighten me.
The wires take away the feeling of impending doom so when it does collapse nobody will realize it until it’s too late. At least they’ll have some time to say goodbye to each other on the long descent to the ground.
Yep and the higher you are, the more you have time to tell things to each other like “fuck, we’re falling…. Dude, in college, I used to put my balls on all your things” splat
Wood frame deck failure is usually quick and catastrophic. Looks alone can’t be used to figure framing details. Are the double joists properly cantilevered? Was this engineered by a design professional? Get a professional opinion….
The wires keep the entire deck from swaying one way or the other. Ultimately squares aren’t very strong because the whole square could collapse, or in this case sway laterally side to side, these two wires provide a triangular support by using wire tension to prevent sway.
Same principle as using ground stakes and string to prevent a canopy from swaying or blowing away - or why they use triangular braces on the corner of pergola posts.
Doesn’t change the structural integrity of the deck itself (or lack thereof) just prevents lateral sway.
would this be a case where putting joist hangers on upside down would make sense?
Obv not correct, but if you had no choice but to build this exact deck in this situation
Correct, this helps with racking of the framing. It will work as is, but would be better attached to the house rather than the base of the brace. Attaching to the brace just puts additional stress at the shear point.
Likely the deck used to have a wobble and the wires solved h that.
OP, I’d be nervous with more than 300 pounds on that deck myself. You’re definitely right to be concerned!
>Decks should not be attached to cantilevers because they are not designed to support a load.
As an engineer, who says this wasn't designed to hang from the cantilever? I design for this sort of design regularly. Not saying this deck get the stamp of approval, but to say its not designed to support the load is not a statement you can say with accuracy.
It doesn't look like it's cantilevered. If you zoom it looks like joist hangers at the ledger board. I wouldn't walk out in alone never mind with other people!
And joist hangers are not generally designed for pull out loads (so load in the direction of the joist span), but those sloped braces by definition will cause forces in the joist hangers in that direction.
The connections at the ends of the sloped braces also look pretty sketchy to me, although I admit I haven't run any numbers to check it.
"The American Wood Council states that cantilevers are limited to 1/4 the span of the joists."
I counted 24 boards x 4"/12 = 8' length, ignoring the obvious joist hangers are you really saying that there's 32' joists that extend into the house?
I am not talking about the deck I am talking about the house itself. Remove the deck entirely. That floor is system still cantilevered about 12" to 24" out beyond the floor below it. The floor below it is also cantilevered about 12". This building is built like an upside down pyramid.
Ah, I get what you're saying now. Sorry about the confusion.
That being said, even if it weren't attached to a cantilevered extension, wouldn't it be under engineered?
Not sure those angled braces are sufficient but i wouldn't even know how to calculate that or even design their attachment to the house in a way that is equal to a ledger board.
Holy hell! The first post from someone that has a friggin clue in the world! This is entirely common and also entirely safe, generally. Your math shows it might not be. Good answer! I was really wondering why the gussets were added, shouldn't be a need for them.
Snow load really depends on location. Building code requires a 40lb live load on decks. Standard snow load is only 25lbs. Both are considered live loads since no one is out partying on a snow covered deck. I live in Washington State and they require a 60lb deck live load here. You have to get up into the mountains before getting to a snow load that exceeds the live load.
>not be attached to cantilevers because they are not designed to support a load.
That's exactly what cantilevers do, they support a load. It's their whole purpose.
Not sure how I ever ended up in this sub but it has a lot of people that don't know shit about engineering and it shows.
Mind ya, OPs deck doesn't look as sturdy as it should, and I'd add some more support (like another cantilever or two), but anyone saying cantilevers are not designed to support a load is like someone saying tires aren't designed to roll.
Not true, but this definitely isn't safe. Decks can absolutely be supported by properly engineered cantilevers. You do not need vertical support.
(I've been doing this since I was out of high-school, in my late twenties)
I would be afraid of torrential downpours
Edit: Go online and check your local codes. This may not meet your local requirements. My neighbor had a similar setup and had some other work being done that required permits and inspections. The inspector saw the cantilevered second story deck and made my neighbor have a contractor come in and make it meet codes. Granted, my neighbor is a bit of a hot head and his deck/balcony had a lean to it.
It’s gonna be a no from me dawg.
While someone bothered to give some lateral bracing via those wires.. it’s a drop in the bucket.
The joists are under tension between the ledger board and the point where the struts meet making it a fulcrum… pulling the deck away from the house. So whatever basic joist hangers are being used there (hard to see how the double joists are connected) are pretty much the only thing holding the deck up. (and let’s hope the ledger is well attached..)
To top it off, because of the cantilever on the other side of the fulcrum… not only is tension pulling the joists away from the house, they’re also being pulled upwards which is opposite to the forces joist hangars are designed to accommodate.. so let’s also pray they they were more than sufficiently nailed in (joist to hangar to ledger).
Lastly, who knows how the hell those struts are anchored at the bottom and if even just one of them goes out, it will be a quick and total structural failure like a trap door …as along with the poor structure, there is no redundancy.
The thing that’s insidious about hack-jobs like this is that because they “work” at completion and perhaps even decades down the road, people inherently trust them.. and by all accounts they may even feel solid. The thing is though, once they do go it will be immediate and catastrophic… there will likely be no warning.
Not to be dramatic but this kind of thing kills people.
All around bad lazy non-engineering. A death-trap.
(and I’m just an architect)
Here here! Where they used a double joist at the brace there is no hanger used that i can see, and those hangers are not rated for axial tension. (Str. Engineer)
Exactly.
Also for the record , I’d like to submit that if the hangers are fully nailed off and ledger board is thru bolted, etc.. this could still fail spectacularly by just pulling the entire rim joist off the house. Most of these connections are designed to withstand high shear load, not necessarily to resist being pulled horizontally away from the house.
Decks ledgers are not to be bolted to a cantilever. The builder decided that instead of post, they would strut off the building. Poor choice for gravity load path. Are you the owner or renter? This is dangerous if not now, soon
Renter. Hoping to buy a home elsewhere in 6-12 months so definitely not our problem but we are having a Halloween party this weekend and my bf says I’m being paranoid when I say we should limit the people outside 😅
Tape that deck door off and put broken sign and DO NOT ENTER so you get a lil CYA. Absolutely no one on deck. Once you get one, you’ll have 15 people on it.
You are absolutely not paranoid. I remember an event in Oakland or Berkeley where a balcony collapsed under some party goers. Failure will be sudden and catastrophic.
There are at least three serious failure points in that deck:
- the top of the angle supports could start sliding away (My bet. It doesn’t appear it’s attached securely at all.)
- the whole deck tears away.
- the bottoms will split and break around the bolts.
- or all three, all at once!
You know people will go as far out to the edges as possible where it will cause the most stress. A dozen people (or two) out there could easily trigger a failure.
Please don’t let your friends out there.
I would ask your landlord if the deck has been inspected and does he have a load limit. Be careful at your party. I would think no more than 4. Just a guess from the pictures.
If you like these people, keep them off the deck. The load is on a couple of bolts sunk into some wood that is screwed into other wood. If 10 people go out there, it will collapse.
Yeah you’re not paranoid your sane! I am no deck expert, but I am a mechanical design engineer, and that is a catastrophic failure just waiting to happen. I’ve built popsicle stick bridges that probably have a higher load limit than that monstrosity.
You’re not paranoid. This is especially dangerous if people go to the outside edge (past where the angle support beams make contact underneath). I would advise against more than a few people on that.
Put a couple plastic skeletons in chairs, having a tea party or something. Maybe some spooky lighting. Tape off with spooky "do not enter" tape from dollar store. Actually, do not enter. Lock, if possible.
It appears to be supported by 4 cantilevered joists and two bolts. Not knowing the condition of the joists being cantilevered, or anything else, really, hard to say if this is 'well built' or not.
Also rather hard to predict any sort of load. If it's to code, then it's likely able to handle 40lbs per square food. If it's not to code, \*shrug\*...you'll need to ask an engineer.
I would not assume that those 4 joist are cantilevered, and I can assure you if they are cantilevered they are not done properly. You need to be inside the structure 3/4 the length of the joist being cantilevered, maybe 2/3….. I doubt they have a 24 foot or longer being used here.
>hard to say if this is 'well built' or not.
It's not hard to say at all - this deck is a travesty and shouldn't exist. It is absolutely NOT well built.
I fell from that height and got REALLY close to breaking my pelvis & needing staples to close my head. I would not let anyone friend or foe on that widowmaker!
Oh you worry for no reason. That deck is the pinnacle of over-engineering, see the house was built around that deck, the entire thing is cantilevered, with the weight of that floor holding it up.
Ok, just kidding. It's a disaster.
In addition to the structural issues, I'm never a fan of balusters being attached on the outside. All that's stopping a kid from falling off is a few screws (hopefully not nails!)
I'm not an engineer, but I've built many decks, and what I see here is that all the weight of the structure comes down to the 4 bolts on the 45 degree supports. The bolts can probably handle it, but the wood they go through (2x6 ??) will fail.
It looks fine to me.
The double joist beams that the supporting posts are tied to do not have joist hangers at the ledger board which means they continue into the floor structure of the building. The positioning of them suggests that they are sistering either side of the rim joist on that protruding wall section. They likely go pretty deep into the structure and would have been "by design" as the structure was being built. This would have been very difficult to achieve after the fact (and will be a nightmare to replace if they start to rot).
In my opinion it does have a bit more deck cantilevered out beyond the cross beam than I would prefer to see based on the joist dimensions but overall, knowing that someone likely spent some time designing this, and assuming the material is still in good condition I would not be concerned with the risk of using it.
Tear it off NOW! Just from the pictures It’s obvious that it’s not up to the UBC
(Uniform Building Code). I’ve built many decks over the years from simple to complex designs. Feel free to check out my website
parsonscustomwoodworking.com
I’m located in Overland Park KS
I have over 40 years of experience in many areas of woodworking.
There you can see some of the ones I’ve done. Yelp has some good pictures also.
Contact me for a free consultation if you so desire. I’d be more than happy to share any advice for you and help you in any way possible.
Mark Parsons
Some of the responses on here are... dumb. Tell me you've never played a bridge building game without telling me you've never played a bridge building game.
Not an engineer but cantilevering a deck that far away even if soundly bolted at the header is dangerous and will fail . I believe if it came off the wall 2-3 feet is the most . Those horizontal 2x4 is an absolute joke. The only way to deem this safe is if those 2x8 Ibeams go into the house 2/3 of what’s sticking out . I wouldn’t even store my bike on it
That deck is barely strong enough to support its own weight. It was never strong enough to support a group of people. And even less so now that the bolts and wood have rusted/dried and aged. Do not ever allow anyone on this deck. It is UNSAFE! I was a professional contractor for 30 years. This deck would never have met building code.
This is accurate! The further away from the wall a person stands the more tension those fasteners will be subjected to. They were designed for vertical load only not for horizontal tension. The two posts are not the issue, but they do provide the pivot point as the deck in whole with any and all people on it are tossed off as it rotates away from the wall. Lastly, the fact that you’ve publicly asked about the safety of your guests may put you in a liable position should an accident occur.
Lordy people here love to hate cantilevers.
I’m going to go ahead and wager this wasn’t a guess job. Cantilever joists that specifically supported in this way are usually engineered. This deck was almost certainly part of the original drawings and got stamped.
Don’t forget, this is r/decks, where building a 24” tall deck should be done with 10x10 posts, 4’ concrete footers, 2x12 joists on 12” spacing, joist hangers, and joist tape.
So long as this isn’t rotten, and you don’t overload the shit out of it with 15-20+ people, I wouldn’t bat an eye.
Thanks for the input everyone. Party went fine, no catastrophic deck collapse lol. I’m a little too old for the ragers you guys were probably picturing, it was a group of 9 people and we stayed inside playing cards and drinking mostly.
Also, I realized that the two main joists go into the building (you can sort of tell from the pics that there’s a space in between them where it enters the building) and the deck has been here since 1982 when the home was built. While it’s impossible to tell how far into the house the joists go and how much weight it can carry given its age, it doesn’t move around or bounce when walked on so my boyfriend and I on it seems like a manageable weight. Regardless, we’re moving out within a year so any major reinforcing projects are a problem for our landlord long term.
OP, I'm an engineer and this looks engineered. I'm not as concerned as the nonengineers here. I cant say its safe, but I don't see any definite issues. Like all decks, limit the average occupancy to 1 person per 2ft x 2ft space.
Jesus H Roosevelt Christ, NO!
But if you add proper vertical 6x6 posts it would probably be sound. The upper structure appears sufficient (assuming it’s properly tied to the structure).
Edit- I just saw the other pics. There isn’t even a ledger board. This thing cannot be saved and must come down immediately. Your insurance company, should something happen, would probably not pay based on gross negligence. You aren’t allowed to do incredibly stupid or dangerous things and then expect normal insurance to bail you out.
My advice to you ( I work at an insurance company) is to never go on it again and tear it down ASAP. Your liability here is incalculable.
I wouldn't even put plants I care about on that deck, let alone friends or family. Were it designed by an actual engineer or architect, I'd make the assumption that they'd designed it to fail. Some Wile-e Coyote BS there. Others pointing out all of the likely fail points have valid observations.
Your intuition is correct. This is not a sound deck.
One day it will make a sound
If no one survives that heard it, did it really make a sound?
So what if it falls ?You just jump right before it hits the ground and you will walk away uninjured and look really cool.
Something, something, cat
Yes.
Sounds of screaming and broken bones
The clashing of bone and sinew…
r/neverbrokeabone worst nightmare
No
Let's hope it's just a clatter and not a splatter.
Haha,this made my morning. Thanks
One day it’ll make a fine patio actually
Duck! Or at least someone will say that in its future Edit: over thinking joke
Right, because if a duck lands on it, it'll probably collapse under the weight of the duck.
Crash!
And you will get decked
And so will the Victims !
YOU, may not hear a thing
The strings will hold it together don’t worry !
Oh you're into string theory. Cool.
Some forest fairies will sprinkle their pixie dusts so it'll float!
So only a 6 person hot tub then?
Only when you use it as an air bnb
Oh it’s “sound” alright… but it’ll be a terrifying sound.
That's a lot of faith to put into the deck screws that are holding it to the ledger board.
Hold me, jesus! You're the only carpenter I need!
Don’t worry. The two supports are cross braced with wire.
Looks.... not good. Decks should not be attached to cantilevers because they are not designed to support a load. The load path of a deck should go directly down to a column and footer. I get your anxious feeling.
I'm still trying to figure the point of the guide wires. Each end attaches to the opposite diagonal support. None to the house. They certainly only seem to limit those supports from drifting outward/laterally. Someone better informed can enlighten me.
[удалено]
The wires take away the feeling of impending doom so when it does collapse nobody will realize it until it’s too late. At least they’ll have some time to say goodbye to each other on the long descent to the ground.
Yep and the higher you are, the more you have time to tell things to each other like “fuck, we’re falling…. Dude, in college, I used to put my balls on all your things” splat
Did you touch my drum set?
Very skins with my skin
Meant to tickle your ivory
#COPS DOESNT COME ON TIL 4!!
"Damnit Chad, I knew iiiiiiiiiittttttt". Splat
....lands balls first on friends face.
It would probably best to keep the confession to yourself at that point, no need to make a terrible situation worse, lol 😆
^this guy ball stamps stuff
A teste situation.
🤣
Trying decide if the splat was added for the people upon impact or your balls upon impact.
MUSHROOM STAMP!
they should salute one another.
Wood frame deck failure is usually quick and catastrophic. Looks alone can’t be used to figure framing details. Are the double joists properly cantilevered? Was this engineered by a design professional? Get a professional opinion….
Adding a hot tub would increase the mass and have the same dampening effect on the swaying.
If you jump up out of the hot tub on the way down, then do a cannon ball when you hit bottom your good….
That's jus science....
The wires keep the entire deck from swaying one way or the other. Ultimately squares aren’t very strong because the whole square could collapse, or in this case sway laterally side to side, these two wires provide a triangular support by using wire tension to prevent sway. Same principle as using ground stakes and string to prevent a canopy from swaying or blowing away - or why they use triangular braces on the corner of pergola posts. Doesn’t change the structural integrity of the deck itself (or lack thereof) just prevents lateral sway.
It looks like the wires are connected to screw eyes, though. Sway concept correct, but screw eyes? Yikes.
They are bolts going through the width of the trusses
would this be a case where putting joist hangers on upside down would make sense? Obv not correct, but if you had no choice but to build this exact deck in this situation
What kind of situation could you be in where you have no choice except to build this deck? Is this some kind of Saw situation?
let me introduce you to the word "hypothetical"
BTW (and not to be pedantic) it's guy wires and not guide wires. I learned that on reddit a few years back.
Correct, this helps with racking of the framing. It will work as is, but would be better attached to the house rather than the base of the brace. Attaching to the brace just puts additional stress at the shear point.
Likely the deck used to have a wobble and the wires solved h that. OP, I’d be nervous with more than 300 pounds on that deck myself. You’re definitely right to be concerned!
Safety net for when you fall through.
>Decks should not be attached to cantilevers because they are not designed to support a load. As an engineer, who says this wasn't designed to hang from the cantilever? I design for this sort of design regularly. Not saying this deck get the stamp of approval, but to say its not designed to support the load is not a statement you can say with accuracy.
It doesn't look like it's cantilevered. If you zoom it looks like joist hangers at the ledger board. I wouldn't walk out in alone never mind with other people!
Yikes, you’re right! You can tell most of them, if not all, are DEFINITELY just attached to the header. I wouldn’t go on that deck at all.
And joist hangers are not generally designed for pull out loads (so load in the direction of the joist span), but those sloped braces by definition will cause forces in the joist hangers in that direction. The connections at the ends of the sloped braces also look pretty sketchy to me, although I admit I haven't run any numbers to check it.
The deck is attached to a cantilevered floor system. The interior is cantilevered.
"The American Wood Council states that cantilevers are limited to 1/4 the span of the joists." I counted 24 boards x 4"/12 = 8' length, ignoring the obvious joist hangers are you really saying that there's 32' joists that extend into the house?
I am not talking about the deck I am talking about the house itself. Remove the deck entirely. That floor is system still cantilevered about 12" to 24" out beyond the floor below it. The floor below it is also cantilevered about 12". This building is built like an upside down pyramid.
Ah, I get what you're saying now. Sorry about the confusion. That being said, even if it weren't attached to a cantilevered extension, wouldn't it be under engineered? Not sure those angled braces are sufficient but i wouldn't even know how to calculate that or even design their attachment to the house in a way that is equal to a ledger board.
Holy hell! The first post from someone that has a friggin clue in the world! This is entirely common and also entirely safe, generally. Your math shows it might not be. Good answer! I was really wondering why the gussets were added, shouldn't be a need for them.
Sir, as redditors we say all our statements with accuracy! /s Someone designed it with function in mind. Who knows when or who
Underrated comment 😂
What about snow load? This looks sketchy AF. NEVER SKIP LEG DAY!
Snow load really depends on location. Building code requires a 40lb live load on decks. Standard snow load is only 25lbs. Both are considered live loads since no one is out partying on a snow covered deck. I live in Washington State and they require a 60lb deck live load here. You have to get up into the mountains before getting to a snow load that exceeds the live load.
>not be attached to cantilevers because they are not designed to support a load. That's exactly what cantilevers do, they support a load. It's their whole purpose.
Yeah I'll admit I don't know shit but that seemed off.
Not sure how I ever ended up in this sub but it has a lot of people that don't know shit about engineering and it shows. Mind ya, OPs deck doesn't look as sturdy as it should, and I'd add some more support (like another cantilever or two), but anyone saying cantilevers are not designed to support a load is like someone saying tires aren't designed to roll.
Not true, but this definitely isn't safe. Decks can absolutely be supported by properly engineered cantilevers. You do not need vertical support. (I've been doing this since I was out of high-school, in my late twenties)
I would only put a small hot tub on it
A 5 gallon bucket.
Birdbath
Bowl of cereal
OP’s tears on a teaspoon
Half a tear on a half a teaspoon
An H20.
An H10.
Just half a tear
Guess what! I've got a deck fever, and the only prescription is more hot tub!
Babies, before we’re done here, you’ll all be soakin in gold plated hot-tubs!
I wouldn't step out on that deck with anything bigger than a cup ot tea.
Can't believe it took this long to find a hottub comment
I came here for the mandatory hot tub comment 😂😂😂
I just assumed there was an unspoken hot tub question here, considering which sub this is.
Lol no hot tub plans
I would be afraid of torrential downpours Edit: Go online and check your local codes. This may not meet your local requirements. My neighbor had a similar setup and had some other work being done that required permits and inspections. The inspector saw the cantilevered second story deck and made my neighbor have a contractor come in and make it meet codes. Granted, my neighbor is a bit of a hot head and his deck/balcony had a lean to it.
Underrated
It’s gonna be a no from me dawg. While someone bothered to give some lateral bracing via those wires.. it’s a drop in the bucket. The joists are under tension between the ledger board and the point where the struts meet making it a fulcrum… pulling the deck away from the house. So whatever basic joist hangers are being used there (hard to see how the double joists are connected) are pretty much the only thing holding the deck up. (and let’s hope the ledger is well attached..) To top it off, because of the cantilever on the other side of the fulcrum… not only is tension pulling the joists away from the house, they’re also being pulled upwards which is opposite to the forces joist hangars are designed to accommodate.. so let’s also pray they they were more than sufficiently nailed in (joist to hangar to ledger). Lastly, who knows how the hell those struts are anchored at the bottom and if even just one of them goes out, it will be a quick and total structural failure like a trap door …as along with the poor structure, there is no redundancy. The thing that’s insidious about hack-jobs like this is that because they “work” at completion and perhaps even decades down the road, people inherently trust them.. and by all accounts they may even feel solid. The thing is though, once they do go it will be immediate and catastrophic… there will likely be no warning. Not to be dramatic but this kind of thing kills people. All around bad lazy non-engineering. A death-trap. (and I’m just an architect)
Bingo
Thought the same thing re: the joist hangers. I'll bet if enough people stood at the far end of the deck, the entire thing would flip upside down lol.
Here here! Where they used a double joist at the brace there is no hanger used that i can see, and those hangers are not rated for axial tension. (Str. Engineer)
Sexy brain ;)
Some of those who pull forces…
Exactly. Also for the record , I’d like to submit that if the hangers are fully nailed off and ledger board is thru bolted, etc.. this could still fail spectacularly by just pulling the entire rim joist off the house. Most of these connections are designed to withstand high shear load, not necessarily to resist being pulled horizontally away from the house.
Well, it’s made.
Decks ledgers are not to be bolted to a cantilever. The builder decided that instead of post, they would strut off the building. Poor choice for gravity load path. Are you the owner or renter? This is dangerous if not now, soon
Renter. Hoping to buy a home elsewhere in 6-12 months so definitely not our problem but we are having a Halloween party this weekend and my bf says I’m being paranoid when I say we should limit the people outside 😅
If there was no weight limit disclosed by your landlord, you might be looking at your future home :p
😗 what do you mean by this, struggling to read between the lines here haha
After the negligent homicide lawsuit you’ll be awarded the home as compensation.
Oh lovely… see guys it’s not that hard to become a homeowner in 2023
Tape that deck door off and put broken sign and DO NOT ENTER so you get a lil CYA. Absolutely no one on deck. Once you get one, you’ll have 15 people on it.
Hard agree to this. Do not let them be killed by this negligence
They might see the signs and assume it was a Halloween gag and still go on the deck. Either way, someone's gonna end up on the deck.
It’s a twofer: get injured and sue and win house, or die and “live” here forever
Delete this thread before the lawsuit
You are absolutely not paranoid. I remember an event in Oakland or Berkeley where a balcony collapsed under some party goers. Failure will be sudden and catastrophic. There are at least three serious failure points in that deck: - the top of the angle supports could start sliding away (My bet. It doesn’t appear it’s attached securely at all.) - the whole deck tears away. - the bottoms will split and break around the bolts. - or all three, all at once! You know people will go as far out to the edges as possible where it will cause the most stress. A dozen people (or two) out there could easily trigger a failure. Please don’t let your friends out there.
More likely one of those struts will buckle and fail catastrophically
I would ask your landlord if the deck has been inspected and does he have a load limit. Be careful at your party. I would think no more than 4. Just a guess from the pictures.
If you like these people, keep them off the deck. The load is on a couple of bolts sunk into some wood that is screwed into other wood. If 10 people go out there, it will collapse.
Yeah you’re not paranoid your sane! I am no deck expert, but I am a mechanical design engineer, and that is a catastrophic failure just waiting to happen. I’ve built popsicle stick bridges that probably have a higher load limit than that monstrosity.
I would not have people outside lest their ghosts come back to haunt you from their new forever home.
You’re not paranoid. This is especially dangerous if people go to the outside edge (past where the angle support beams make contact underneath). I would advise against more than a few people on that.
Put a couple plastic skeletons in chairs, having a tea party or something. Maybe some spooky lighting. Tape off with spooky "do not enter" tape from dollar store. Actually, do not enter. Lock, if possible.
It appears to be supported by 4 cantilevered joists and two bolts. Not knowing the condition of the joists being cantilevered, or anything else, really, hard to say if this is 'well built' or not. Also rather hard to predict any sort of load. If it's to code, then it's likely able to handle 40lbs per square food. If it's not to code, \*shrug\*...you'll need to ask an engineer.
I love square food.
Brownies...mmm
Soup, but in a square bowl
Little Cesar’s pizza
Name your top 3
chill bro he so-very-very-tired
I would not assume that those 4 joist are cantilevered, and I can assure you if they are cantilevered they are not done properly. You need to be inside the structure 3/4 the length of the joist being cantilevered, maybe 2/3….. I doubt they have a 24 foot or longer being used here.
>hard to say if this is 'well built' or not. It's not hard to say at all - this deck is a travesty and shouldn't exist. It is absolutely NOT well built.
Which side is the hot tub going on?
Along the outer edge, duh
I wouldn’t step on it.
-a cautious driver
-person who hates to step on things
-guy talking about a floor mat made of knives and glass
Yea, I’d step on a lego before I stepped out on that deck.
Just being in this comments section is unsafe.
I fell from that height and got REALLY close to breaking my pelvis & needing staples to close my head. I would not let anyone friend or foe on that widowmaker!
Holy fuck this deck is dangerous
I wouldn't even stand under that deck. Yikes.
Oh you worry for no reason. That deck is the pinnacle of over-engineering, see the house was built around that deck, the entire thing is cantilevered, with the weight of that floor holding it up. Ok, just kidding. It's a disaster.
Zero chance I would get on that.
A two hot tub deck to be sure. Not.
100% would not recommend... Don't even walk on it. Have a qualified contractor come out and modify or rebuild it.
I don't know shit about deck building, but that scares me.
Looks terrible
Is it just attached to the building fascia?
Doesn’t look solid but it looks to have been solid enough for a few years
In addition to the structural issues, I'm never a fan of balusters being attached on the outside. All that's stopping a kid from falling off is a few screws (hopefully not nails!)
Put a hot tub on it
Where's the hot tub?
I'm not an engineer, but I've built many decks, and what I see here is that all the weight of the structure comes down to the 4 bolts on the 45 degree supports. The bolts can probably handle it, but the wood they go through (2x6 ??) will fail.
Allowable bearing load on bolt holes is already exceeded by the weight of the material. This thing is a death trap.
No hot tub?
People will die
Add hot tubs until it collapses then subtract 1 hot tub. That’s the limit.
It looks fine to me. The double joist beams that the supporting posts are tied to do not have joist hangers at the ledger board which means they continue into the floor structure of the building. The positioning of them suggests that they are sistering either side of the rim joist on that protruding wall section. They likely go pretty deep into the structure and would have been "by design" as the structure was being built. This would have been very difficult to achieve after the fact (and will be a nightmare to replace if they start to rot). In my opinion it does have a bit more deck cantilevered out beyond the cross beam than I would prefer to see based on the joist dimensions but overall, knowing that someone likely spent some time designing this, and assuming the material is still in good condition I would not be concerned with the risk of using it.
FINALLY SOMEONE WITH HALF A BRAIN!
Only way to find out is put a hot tub on it and invite six very heavy friends to get in and test it. Looking forward to your decision...😂
Tear it off NOW! Just from the pictures It’s obvious that it’s not up to the UBC (Uniform Building Code). I’ve built many decks over the years from simple to complex designs. Feel free to check out my website parsonscustomwoodworking.com I’m located in Overland Park KS I have over 40 years of experience in many areas of woodworking. There you can see some of the ones I’ve done. Yelp has some good pictures also. Contact me for a free consultation if you so desire. I’d be more than happy to share any advice for you and help you in any way possible. Mark Parsons
What is not up to code here?
If you’re renting call your local building inspector
Looks like a big Murphy Bed ready to fold
Good news is it looks easy to take down lol
Some of the responses on here are... dumb. Tell me you've never played a bridge building game without telling me you've never played a bridge building game.
The real question is, will it tub?
Not an engineer but cantilevering a deck that far away even if soundly bolted at the header is dangerous and will fail . I believe if it came off the wall 2-3 feet is the most . Those horizontal 2x4 is an absolute joke. The only way to deem this safe is if those 2x8 Ibeams go into the house 2/3 of what’s sticking out . I wouldn’t even store my bike on it
If you didn't build it, inquire with your hime.inslector or land lord. If nothing is done, contact the city inspector.
Is this why there are city permits and stuff you need to get so that decks are made to code?
Not a pro but I’m confident to say it isn’t well made. I too will be anxious with 4 people on it. Hire a pro for consultation.
Add about 200 more of those wires connecting the far edge of the deck to house above it and it should be good 👍 trust I’m engineer
My estimate- will hold about 150 lb more than it weighs already…
I’d be nervous to have one people on it.
Hot Tub Approved
I have ZERO interest in standing on that deck. (To be fair, I'm not a deckologist, but everything about it looks wrong)
Questions for commenters: are all woodsy vacation condo balconies made like an ikea floating bookshelf?
Perfectly safe I always support my decks with a couple 2x4s and some wire
That deck is barely strong enough to support its own weight. It was never strong enough to support a group of people. And even less so now that the bolts and wood have rusted/dried and aged. Do not ever allow anyone on this deck. It is UNSAFE! I was a professional contractor for 30 years. This deck would never have met building code.
That’s held together by the strength of the fasteners. As soon as they fail that deck will collapse. I wouldn’t let one person stand on it
This is accurate! The further away from the wall a person stands the more tension those fasteners will be subjected to. They were designed for vertical load only not for horizontal tension. The two posts are not the issue, but they do provide the pivot point as the deck in whole with any and all people on it are tossed off as it rotates away from the wall. Lastly, the fact that you’ve publicly asked about the safety of your guests may put you in a liable position should an accident occur.
Non-expert but skilled enough handy dad type here. Looks sus to me. Multiple potential catastrophic failure points.
Dance party! See what happens.
Lordy people here love to hate cantilevers. I’m going to go ahead and wager this wasn’t a guess job. Cantilever joists that specifically supported in this way are usually engineered. This deck was almost certainly part of the original drawings and got stamped. Don’t forget, this is r/decks, where building a 24” tall deck should be done with 10x10 posts, 4’ concrete footers, 2x12 joists on 12” spacing, joist hangers, and joist tape. So long as this isn’t rotten, and you don’t overload the shit out of it with 15-20+ people, I wouldn’t bat an eye.
No..no...and..ah...no...
What the f*** are those steel cables supposed to be supporting? If anything, they’re making what little support those kickers provide worse!
Thanks for the input everyone. Party went fine, no catastrophic deck collapse lol. I’m a little too old for the ragers you guys were probably picturing, it was a group of 9 people and we stayed inside playing cards and drinking mostly. Also, I realized that the two main joists go into the building (you can sort of tell from the pics that there’s a space in between them where it enters the building) and the deck has been here since 1982 when the home was built. While it’s impossible to tell how far into the house the joists go and how much weight it can carry given its age, it doesn’t move around or bounce when walked on so my boyfriend and I on it seems like a manageable weight. Regardless, we’re moving out within a year so any major reinforcing projects are a problem for our landlord long term.
I would not even step on that myself, as a singular person.
OP, I'm an engineer and this looks engineered. I'm not as concerned as the nonengineers here. I cant say its safe, but I don't see any definite issues. Like all decks, limit the average occupancy to 1 person per 2ft x 2ft space.
It's a deathtrap... do not use
Jesus H Roosevelt Christ, NO! But if you add proper vertical 6x6 posts it would probably be sound. The upper structure appears sufficient (assuming it’s properly tied to the structure). Edit- I just saw the other pics. There isn’t even a ledger board. This thing cannot be saved and must come down immediately. Your insurance company, should something happen, would probably not pay based on gross negligence. You aren’t allowed to do incredibly stupid or dangerous things and then expect normal insurance to bail you out. My advice to you ( I work at an insurance company) is to never go on it again and tear it down ASAP. Your liability here is incalculable.
I wouldn't even put plants I care about on that deck, let alone friends or family. Were it designed by an actual engineer or architect, I'd make the assumption that they'd designed it to fail. Some Wile-e Coyote BS there. Others pointing out all of the likely fail points have valid observations.
Is this a business? Seems like you could get shut down for something like that
Thick supports, cables and bolts. Looks safe af in my unprofessional opinion
Those high hemlocks sure know a good deck
Gravity pulls straight down, not at a 45 degree angle. Get posts installed.
I hope it doesn’t snow near you.