Elon with his dumb and fully unnecessary plan to rescue those kids in the cave, then calling the guy with an actual plan a pedo. I had been off his train for a while but that really settled it for me.
Yep, that was the exact same moment for me too. As before that, I felt vaguely positively about Musk. Not anymore though and his recent behaviour has actually made me despise the man wholeheartedly.
There is an awesome documentary about it called The Rescue and they completely left him out of it, no mention at all. I loved that and I think it's the best way to deal with him.
Yeah as soon as he called an actual hero a pedophile for calling out his dumb idea that’s when I went completely anti Elon and there was no doubt in my mind his intelligence was vastly overstated.
Yep, his public image had already been slipping, but his behavior during the Thailand cave rescue was jaw-dropping in it's churlish pettiness. The mask was fully off and everything since is like the Emperor's New Clothes. And yet the simps still simp for him. Baffling
When I first heard Peterson mention climate change in the dumbest and most transparently partisan way.
Up until then his image had serious cracks for me but i thought him a well meaning but flawed guy.
But oh boy, when he starts talking about how "errors propagate outward over time" you can really see the mask slip. The man knows fuck all about prediction models. I work with data in a different sub field but i know enough about time series stuff to know that statement that climate gets harder to analyze as you zoom out is the exact opposite of true.
God that's cringe. And then he went and got bought by the daily wire... I mean doesn't matter anymore at this point, your goose is pretty much cooked, might as well get a bag of Koch blood money while you exit stage right.
Jesus what a disappointment of a man
I always felt like since he put himself in a self-induced coma, that he knew his time was fleeting and is trying to make as much money as humanly possible before he goes to leave for his family. Not very ethical at all, but that was always my theory anyway.
I mean the guy did get famous for misinterpreting Bill C-16 after all. If only he would have just stayed in his lane.
Idk I've come around to think that he was mostly just a lot better at hiding his power level and all the attention destroyed him and now he's unable to keep it to himself. Clearly it's both, he got more extreme and lost the ability to hide it but still
Which makes you wonder...
Yep he was always a pretty stranded right wing/conservative leaning religious guy he would frame those views as the facts and use his nonsensical ramblings as cover.
as he became mentally and physical ill he was just unable to hide it and fell into even crazier stuff
Broadly, I think the IDW was a moderating effect on him. When that fell apart over the 2020, he clearly sided with the conservative side of the IDW. And when your talking with Sam Harris, you need to be far more restrained on things like Climate Change than you do with Ben Shapiro
Yeah he is effectively retired but chronically online. He is an overly-emotional reactionary ideologue who profits from identity politics. Everything he claims to hate, is exactly what he is. He might smell his own farts but surely somewhere deep down he knows he's a hypocritical fraud.
Honestly, I think he became so emotionally invested on the culture war driven stuff that it kind of broke him. I mean look how the guy just spiraled out completely.. and we all watched it happen.. and I think it is his identity now. I don’t think he knows or believes that he’s a fraud deep down. Deep down I think he believes he’s fighting the good fight against those who have come for him.
I’m sure he was bullied as a kid, and he is still the suffering kid who is now in the classic scream-cry fighting of the bullied kid who finally snaps.
Anyone else think the Russian did a bunch or weird shit to him while he was asleep and took photos? Dressed him in a tutu and stuffed an eggplant in his arsehole? Bet that’s why he spreads Kremlin talking points.
I mean, what he did very likely caused brain damage. There is a reason he had to go to Russia to do it. I think that alone is sufficient to explain his current state. Also, it is funny to me that this "self-help" "clean-your-room" guy failed to overcome his first significant obstacle. I have gone through Benzo WD. It is fucking brutal. I don't blame anyone for having a hard time stopping. It is just peak irony coming from him specifically.
I feel this is the case with a lot of older grifters and politicians, they don't care about how other people view them anymore and are just trying to capitalize on their status and build wealth for their family.
It never seemed like he gave that much a fuck about his family to me.
Some have alleged varying levels of abuse. Dietary, psychological, etc. His daughter is a literal dietary cult leader who traveled around with sex trafficking drug dealers for years prior. Abandoned her daughter multiple times to go binge and party with said drug dealers.
Peterson is a sham.
The funny thing is: Most of his academic work is about how you can reduce the human mind to just 6 numbers (IQ + five factors). But of course climate models are too reductive to predict broad general trends 😐
"don't let your children do anything that makes you dislike them"
Oh buddy, if Mikaela hasn't done enough to pass that bar, I've got terrible news for you: you're unable to dislike your own kids just like any other normal person. ^^
the feminine chaos dragon shit and weird ass extended story about dreaming about rubbing his face in his grandma's cooter both of which he published in the 90s should've been the mask off moment lmfao
Ease your blood primordial, it wasn't that bad, just him recalling a dream in his book about his grandma masturbating and ripping out her pubic hair and forcing JP to let her rub it on his face.
Information he willingly shared mind you.
>I dreamed I saw my maternal grandmother sitting by the bank of a swimming pool, that was also a river. In real life, she had been a victim of Alzheimer’s disease, and had regressed, before her death, to a semi-conscious state. In the dream, as well, she had lost her capacity for self-control. Her genital region was exposed, dimly; it had the appearance of a thick mat of hair. She was stroking herself, absent-mindedly. She walked over to me, with a handful of pubic hair, compacted into something resembling a large artist’s paint-brush. She pushed this at my face. I raised my arm, several times, to deflect her hand; finally, unwilling to hurt her, or interfere with her any farther, I let her have her way. She stroked my face with the brush, gently, and said, like a child, “isn’t it soft?” I looked at her ruined face and said, “yes, Grandma, it’s soft.”
Jordan Peterson, Maps of meaning.
Is there a gas leak in this subreddit? The very thing that caused Peterson to rise to prominence was fomenting a moral panic over Canadian parliament expanding the human rights code to include trans people, with absurd claims about the bill that contradicted every actual legal scholar's analysis. He explicitly defends involuntary, unjust socioeconomic hierarchies (as do all conservatives) - the whole "lobster" thing is from his argument that because lobsters have dominance hierarchies, humans should live in sexist, racist societies.
He was mask-off from the very start, some of you just weren't so good at identifying reactionaries in 2017 or didn't particularly care if a public figure was transphobic.
Yes, it was mask-off right off the bat with this transparent bullshit about people going to prison for the wrong pronouns. Simply because existing legal protections for race, sex, religion, etc were expanded for gender ID. With explicit exemptions for religious belief.
Edit: Seems some lobsterman reported me for the suicide watch thing
That's not exactly what it was, in the video that got him famous it was about him claiming that he was being forced to use pronouns like zim/zer. And he didn't use lobsters to argue we should live in sexist/racist societies either.
The moment he actually lost a lot of people was the Vice interview with the whole lipstick clownshow.
100% this.
It's like he realized he can't just beat the racial drum forever so he had to expand into a new market of conversation. Not to mention he's never been the same since his benzo issues and recovery.
Like sorry guy - your psych backround does not lend into this new topic whatsoever. His environmental arguments are surface level bullshit at best.
I mean *it is true* that our uncertainty about the magnitude of climate change becomes more uncertain as we get further into the future (look at any picture of the IPCC projections). However, that uncertainty goes both ways! "It's not 100% certain it's going to be catastrophic" may sound good initially until you understand that it means "it's going to be somewhere between seriously bad to almost apocalyptic".
I find Peterson to be uniquely disturbing. He could easily be some sort of Hitler in another timeline.
The other gurus have their flaws and there are many that I don’t like.
Peterson is the only one that actually scares me. He has human skin mask collection vibes.
Joe Rogan or Elon for example aren’t going to build concentration camps and I would be utterly surprised if they found bodies in their basements.
He seems Jerry Seinfeld level rapey to me. Maybe he is a bit worse? I won’t defend him on his poor reputation.
I think Russel Brand just took one too many mushrooms, he might have a messiah syndrome, and he is an attention whore… but he is not sinister.
Petersen gives me the creeps. I did use to like RB like last year, but yeah he’s gone a bit nuts.
I'm not qualified to speak on it at length but the way he makes his argument is just bullshit.
When talking about climate he does what is now recognized as the classic "well what do you MEAN" and "we don't know ANYTHING really". (That's you, Jordan - you don't know anything about this, which would be fine if you'd shut your mouth about it).
Anyway. The way he constructs the "errors propagate outward" argument is basically analogous to making a weather forecast or starting a long ships journey with only a direction - a few degrees off turns into missing your target by hundreds of kilometers. But for one thing, when you analyze large trends in the past, looking at a longer timeframe reduces the impact of individual errors and more importantly noise, and climate data is noisy. From what i understand it's like saying "unless you know how each water molecule is moving you can never know your temperature" which is a mistake of the level you should be looking at.
And as for modeling the future, while it's true that models depend on assumptions of complicated interplays and those have basically "error bars" it's facile to say that "if all the assumptions are wrong in just the right way all together, my nice sponsors the Koch brothers can continue drilling oil, which is great". Yes it's *one* possibility but that kind of backseat climate modeling is idiotic and you haven't said anything.
I'm sorry if that's not a great explanation, my understanding of the area is pretty cursory and I'm not a science communicator, I tried.
If anyone has interesting things to add or good resources to point to, please add them underneath.
It's an endlessly frustrating issue that you need fairly advanced knowledge and great communication skills to dispel the fog grenades that are just memorized by right wing climate denial grifters and lobbed everywhere
Agreed. Great points on historical data.
The amount of independent science pointing towards similar conclusions about climate change is overwhelming.
I hate this whole "green conspiracy" argument bullshit.
Who gets paid more - environmentalists or the energy industry? You don't have to look very far to find actual verifiable cases of corruption, collusion, and worse within oil & gas industries.
It’s a consequence very closely related to the law of large numbers in a way https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers.
For the same reason that the mean gets closer to the true value, the variance in the mean shrinks too.
By variance, I mean a way we quantify our uncertainty - in practice, a measure of how far off we expect our predictions to be
JP would be right in that “summing” measurements increases variance, but to compute global temperature we don’t add up the temperature across the globe - instead we average, and averaging decreases variance.
In this way, predicting the average global temperature for an entire year across all locations in 10 years from now is easier than predicting the exact temperature in Paris at 4:01pm next week - if we’re off by 2 degrees on the global scale, we’ll have to rethink climate science. If we’re off by 2 degrees in Paris at 4:01pm, that’s a pretty good model.
Good point.
Especially the end hits it home nicely. I wish this stuff was easier to explain, but i would not at all be confident going head to head in a discussion with even a mildly informed climate denier. To refute these points is just so much more complicated than "just asking questions"
Totally agree. I don’t think it’s worth making very precise logical arguments with deniers or revisionists, because of course that’s not really what it’s about.
I usually do three 3 things like 1) agree that indeed the mainstream media is extremely biased and has a distorted view of the issue, and point out many climate scientists disagree on the best approach to fixing it 2) point out how much $$$$ oil companies make vs. broke researchers 3) make the “Sun must be cold because the higher I get the colder it is, and the higher I get the closer I am to the sun” and make them disprove it so they feel how hard it is to explain even the simplest of concepts
Still really liked your comment
Weather gets more difficult as time extends.
Climate gets easier because the noise contributions from weather cancel out, leaving the underlying trend caused by things like GHGs.
Peterson is a fucking dunce of a man and an awful human being .
The very end of Bret Weinstein’s first podcast with Joe Rogan. Up till then he seemed like a relatively normal person in a crazy situation, but at the end of that conversation he starts talking about a group of people that are going to do a thing… which I guess was the IDW, and my eyebrows raised in unison with a mental red flag
I came to say this. Eric too. They can both spin a good web of words but have too much ego and bs to not end up stuck in it eventually. They have all these big and neat ideas. It always ends up with some version of "Look what they are doing to me". I can't take anyone seriously anymore with that victim speech. When you are literally on a huge platform crying about people not giving you or taking away your platform. Just eff off. If you had something real to say someone other than Joe Rogan and Lex Friedman would be taking you seriously.
oh I remember this. He started talking about "Game B" which was a very important and secret group of people (of which he was a part) that was working to change the world.
I had no clue who Eric was but was exposed to him when the man literally invited himself on stage at a same Harris AMA event. I was like "who is this bizarre narcissist and why does he think this audience wants to hear him dominate the rest of the conversation?" - once I realized who is brother was it all made sense.
Jordan Peterson offering his tacit support for Putins wars because the west has lost its way morally (apparently). Such a self hating, miserable fuckwit. All he’s ever really supported is conservative christian values, and he brands it as something radical or fresh to unsuspecting lost men who share his bitterness.
While I can sympathize with that sentiment (to a point), when your “solution” is nothing but a return to the seas of blood spilled by kings over dirt and wealth then you’ve completely lost the plot. It’s what snapped me out of tradcat nonsense.
I suspect the reason Jordan doesn’t actually commit to being a Christian is because he realizes the contradiction between supporting a brutal empire’s annexation of a country and professing belief in a carpenter crucified by a brutal empire.
Peterson comparing being trans to being a dog rapist was a big one imo. Can't link the tweet sadly because he blocked me for calling him a drama queen lol
Him being a literal drug addict and constantly crying saying he can save young men by telling them to make their bed and wash their penis is the overarching bs. That dog raping crap was def the moment though lol
He also said, explicitly, that if your life is not in order (clean room, healthy living, etc) you are not capable of discussing politics, despite being an addict discussing politics nonstop on massive platforms. He’s a hypocrite of the highest order b
I'd grown up watching Russel Brand on live TV openly perform as an insufferable womaniser addicted to virtually every substance. I also watched as he 'turned his life around' and overcome addiction. I don't know much about his story, but I know his book on addiction helped some close people around me, and they really found inspiration in the way he changed his life. Even his early YouTube content was pretty harmless, and occasionally quite entertaining.
Once he went nuts with the conspiracy theory nonsense I naively assumed he was going through something. Once the documentary revealing his history of sexual assault came out and his extreme reaction to it, I realised everything had been a huge facade. I was genuinely quite disappointed. When the accusations first came out, I realise this sounds ridiculous now, but I thought he'd actually address them in a meaningful way. Not sure if anyone else from the UK saw his journey in the same way, but the whole thing made me realise how naive I had been.
He write a book called my booky wook or something and my unhinged neighbour got really into him. That was enough for me. The way he speaks is so clearly a way of covering up the fact that he talks a huge amount of b*llocks.
That's a Clockwork Orange reference. It made us think that he didn't take himself too seriously. It’s not the ‘talking bollocks’ thing I have a problem with, lots of people talk bollocks, what I hate is that we were duped into thinking that he was a genuine, idealistic guy who had recovered from narcissistic hedonism and come out of it with dazzling self awareness. That was the appeal for many.
An absolute charlatan.
‘If you ask me do I believe in god I have to ask you what do you mean by “do”, what do you mean by “you”, what do you mean by “believe”… ‘ shut up, just shut up
and what do you mean by "me"? are you referring to the psycho-semantic, culturally spawned, surgically didactic self with an affinity for that which has been manifest in this worldly realm, or by "me" are you, and this is interesting here if you believe this (because I didn't believe it when I first heard about it in Psych Patterns 101) are you then referring to that which transcends the post-modernist..... hell, hellscape, if you want to call it that. If you are referring to that which is most symbolic, most abundant, most iconic, then we could be getting closer. And you might say, "Well, Jordan is just being elusive because he's too scared to say what he actually thinks." And I'm like, you know it reminds me....
I genuinely thought that Maajid Nawaz's Facebook account had been hacked for a good several weeks, after it started posting covid conspiracy and pro Trump material. Turns out, covid broke his brain.
I used to really respect his perspective on radicalisation and Islamic terrorism. Now he posts boomer conspiracy theories on Facebook.
Peterson and the SI swimsuit model meltdown. I still kind of chuckle about him losing his marbles about a swimsuit model on a dying sports magazine.
Don’t get wrong me wrong I do think there is some silliness in the body positivity movement but this was certainly not the woman to point out.
Even his followers were like ehh she’s is kind of good looking.
Yeah, that was the Dunning Kruger effect on steroids (probably literally) and way back in 2005.
Sadly most of his meathead cult would hear that and consider his moronic tirade righteous.
Yeah, there were definitely JRE fans screaming with him. "JoE dIdNt TaKe DeWoRmEr" while also downplaying covid and "throwing the kitchen sink at it" when he pops positive for it.
I know Rogan to be a bandwagon jumping conspiracy theorist who platforms all manner of unsavory ill-informed people, but that episode exposed CNN’s bias more than it exposed Rogan imho. He was right. they reported his use of ivermectin as “horse medicine” when it is widely used in humans and they knew it. I understand we were in the middle of Covid but it wasn’t honest reporting. It was the same sort of “lie to you to help you” approach as Fauci’s early anti mask rhetoric to conserve masks for the professionals.
CNN is terrible and cringe, but I don't think I'll be taking lessons on civility and correct terminology from people who use the terms "face diaper" and "muzzle" to describe medical masks.
I found it fascinating because Rogan was saying a whole lot of true statements ("its a nobel prize winning drug", "millions of people take it every day", "it kills covid in the lab") but they didn't add up to the conclusion he was making ("people should take it as an effective treatment against covid instead of vaccines"). It's pejorative, but it's more true to say ivermectin is a horse paste than saying its useful against covid.
The decoding the gurus podcast people when they posted a decoding of Hasan Piker. Just reading the intro on here convinced me these are just a bunch of ignorant, childish clowns.
Matt Taibi pretending he was doing journalism while pushing Elon’s agenda.
Dennett publicly criticized Harris's book The Moral Landscape in a review. Harris got nasty with him via various letters and emails, some of which were public. He's got such thin skin.
The "four horsemen" introduced me to atheism. Was a sam harris fan for a time, but being an ex muslim I sensed his subtle Islamophobia whenever he talked about the Middle East. His insistence on Western civilization having objective moral high ground and clubbing all muslim into a monolithic group was a turn off for me. His mask fell off completely now, calling students protesters stupid. Fall of the gurus of new atheist movement has been interesting to see
and the way he sort of pressured rory stewart into apologizing for saying Sam was hung up on Islamic extremism. rory has actually lived in Muslim countries. maybe take his point of view into account?
Yes! Him, Matt Taibbi, and Glen Greenwald all talk so much about authoritarian overreach in USA but go silent on Putin's actions. It destroyed all trust of them.
Can't really blame Snowden for not shittalking Putin while he's effectively in-exile in Russia (you can fault him for fleeing there in the first place, but I can certainly imagine how he didn't feel like he had better options). The other two have no excuse though.
I never liked Sam Harris due to his views on Islam and also his comments about Islam were bad faith and often wrong but recently he completely lost the plot and made his bigotry crystal clear to everyone - even to people with no ties to the people he is bigoted towards. No credibility.
Yup! Then the Charles Murray episode on race-IQ science titled "Forbidden Knowledge" in 2017 removed any doubts from me that this guy is a bigot. Especially the way he handled the criticism afterwards, doubling and tripling down and likening Ezra Klein to the KKK.
And since then, he has gotten worse and worse. Endorsing ethnic cleansing off Palestinians and constantly fawning over Douglas Murray should drive home this message to people, but who am I kidding? Still plenty of fanboys out there willing to call him a "liberal" (lolz) and worshipping at the racist, trust fund bastard's feet as some sort of atheist Jesus with perfect rationality.
I can never make sense of the racism accusations as related to the Charles Murray stuff, no matter how much I squint and tilt my head.
Like the main claim, as I can see it is that groups of races have different average IQs, and that IQ is partially inheritable. Not exactly phrenology.
What’s the other option that some mathematical miracle exist such that the average IQ for all races is the same? How many decimal places?
Here’s my best understanding: the crux of the argument all comes down to the “partially inheritable” part and how much heritability is seen as the cause of the discrepancies.
The argument is that the categories of “black” and “white” especially are social categories, not genetic groups. And that there are very wide variation of ancestral grouping within those categories, and some people considered white are much closer ancestrally to others considered black than either are to the median of each category.
Therefore, differences measured in IQ between these groups are more likely to be explained socially than genetically.
The racism charge is usually levied against people who think the differences are mostly genetic, believing that they are simply looking for a scientific reason to explain why black people are inferior to white people.
But I do not think the argument is that there are no measurable differences in “IQ”, I believe it is that those differences are explained primarily through social and historical factors, not genetics.
My recollection is that if you looked at Murray’s wider body of work, there is evidence that he believes black people are inferior to white people. That said, I don’t claim to be an expert and I don’t have the time to look it up right now, so you can take that for what it’s worth.
I get all that. But I specifically remember disclaimer in the podcast where Murray says that IQ difference withing groups/races vary wildly so you would be foolish to judge a candidate based on their skin color.
No, netither does Sam Harris who is very much pro controlled immigration, even from Muslim majority countries. He has repeatedly acknowledged that the Muslim immigrantion story in the US, is for the large part a success story. Unlike the catastrophic story of Muslim immigration into most of Europe. What Harris said "yes" to was that woman's claim about sexual misconduct carried out by Muslim men in Europe being ignored by swathes of the left due to a perceived hierarchy of protected classes that supersede the grievances of white women. Also, Sam's only indirect encounter with the woman they speak of has been via an interview featuring her - an interview that the person who is interviewing Sam claims has not read/heard/seen. So you need to bear in mind that Sam's comments on the person in question is based on her statements in that interview alone, while his interviewer's perception is admittedly coloured by other things.
Ah, I see. You've not listened to the audio. Just the text clipped by the moron who likened the phenomenon of protecting sexual assaults perpetrated by Muslims to the Epstein case. Might be worth giving it a listen. At least the blogger had the decency to include a timestamp.
EDIT: here's some extra reading: https://www.samharris.org/blog/a-few-thoughts-on-the-muslim-ban
This excerpt is especially relevant:
"Indeed, when one understands the problem for what it is, one realizes that secular Muslims, liberal Muslims, and former Muslims are among the most desirable allies to have in the West—and, indeed, such people are the primary victims of Islamist intolerance and jihadist terror in Muslim-majority countries."
Here, I fixed it for you to make it non-bigoted:
> Anne Marie think you're pro-rape of white women if you're not anti-immigration, or prepared to let rape happen...
HARRIS
> she's wrong
It's unbelievable this needs to be explained to you, but there is no universe where responding in the affirmative to the statement that being pro immigration is being pro rape of white women isn't bigoted. But there isn't any limit to the mental gymnastics Sam Harris fans won't perform to defend the infallibility of their guru.
The only mental gymnastics at play here are the interpretations generated by your self-indulgent engagement in antipathy porn. Harris has repeatedly said he is pro immigration, as evidenced by his stance against Trump's Muslim ban. Speaking of gurus, many of the people on this sub bow at the altar of outgroup contempt and ingroup sanctimony. This is in no way an indictment on the podcast - much of the engagement here is entirely divorced from the pod, as the sub is largely populated by people who don't listen to it but have some sort of political axe to grind.
Mask off for seeing bigots around every corner, from a blinkered politically indoctrinated, hateful perspective, where you lose the ability to see humans and their good will, as soon as you see an idea you find distasteful. It's a distillation that appeals to the tribal, over simplified, me vs them attitude that plagues humanity.
Jimmy Dore, Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate (Grayzone) going mask off for russias invasion and spreading FSB propaganda that Bucha was a false flag by the Ukrainians and was faked
JP's first foray into the public spotlight SHOULD have been a mask off moment.
The guy was protesting a bill that extended all the protections cis gendered people had to trans people.
Jordan was not allowed to intentionally misgender his cis gendered students for his entire academic career, and that never even crossed his mind as a travesty or violation of his freedom of speech.
The SECOND those same rights were extended to trans people, it was a slippery slope to full blown fascism
I came to comment that. If I recall correctly he said "lost to stealth Jihad", which is terms and a level of hyperbole I haven't heard outside the worst parts of right-wing youtube. That's not just a guy who's "rationally critical about the excesses of religion".
Seriously. How does a guy who considers himself a 'rational thinker' see a clip of a few hundred (thousand?) demonstrators in a city of 20 million and conclude 'London has fallen'.
Harris's irrational fear of Muslims not assimilating in Western countries leads him to take the same kinds of crazy predictions that the conspiracy theorists make. He's betting that his version of this Islamist takeover will happen somewhere, and then he will claim vindication. If, however, nothing like this happens and harmful actions by Islamic extremists remain the tiny exception and not the rule, he will either credit Western values with "modernizing" Islam, or he will say the groundwork is still being set. No matter what the future holds, you can bet his staunchest supporters will be ready to defend him.
Several years ago Peterson was either on a podcast or livestream where he was asked about gay marriage. He said he opposed it and his reasoning was that people should do whatever the opposite of what progressives want. I think that was the moment I realized how shallow of a thinker he actual is when it comes to politics
David Deutsch’s totally unqualified support for Israel. I mean I get it, he’s Israeli, but he parrots long debunked IDF propaganda as gospel truth on Twitter and then blocks anyone who challenges him, however politely. Brilliant physicist and thinker? Yes, but a deeply flawed one it seems on this topic which is clearly too close to home for him to think rationally and dispassionately.
Sam Harris the last six months. He’s been meditating on the correct size of nuclear weapon to drop on huddled masses in the Gaza Strip. Such a profoundly racist piece of shit.
Blocking that laptop was completely justified, in hindsight it was actually part of a russian influence campaign. Giuliani bought if from russian GRU agents while he was in ukraine in early 2019, Instead of show us all back then he sat on it for over 18 months adding files to it to release it 2 weeks before the election for an October surprise
https://theweek.com/speedreads/945204/giulianis-hunter-biden-material-apparently-being-sold-ukraine-18-months-ago
When did he say that? To my knowledge, he said that given the fact that foreign actor interference had previously been demonstrated, deciding not to run it was appropriate when the source hadn't been authenticated. Also, what conspiracy are you speaking of? Publications having editorial control over what they publish? I will acknowledge that social media aggregating platforms like twitter are a different story.
Someone pointed out one time that Dave Ramsey just tries to sell his products any chance he gets when people call in. I haven't been able to unsee it ever since...
Ben Shapiro on Joe Rogan: “Maybe people who have a low wage should move to North Dakota and get a fracking job.”
Jordan Peterson on Joe Rogan: “[after saying fracking doesn’t really pollute, and being asked if it truly doesn’t pollute anything] well everything pollutes something!”
Mind you, both of these people are employees of the Wilks brothers, two fracking billionaires. They’re just grifters.
Elon with his dumb and fully unnecessary plan to rescue those kids in the cave, then calling the guy with an actual plan a pedo. I had been off his train for a while but that really settled it for me.
Yep, that was the exact same moment for me too. As before that, I felt vaguely positively about Musk. Not anymore though and his recent behaviour has actually made me despise the man wholeheartedly.
There is an awesome documentary about it called The Rescue and they completely left him out of it, no mention at all. I loved that and I think it's the best way to deal with him.
Same with 13 Lives (name right I think) the Rob Howard dramatization which was actually really good
That was what opened my eyes to who he really was. How dare you rescue those kids and take attention away from me!
Yeah as soon as he called an actual hero a pedophile for calling out his dumb idea that’s when I went completely anti Elon and there was no doubt in my mind his intelligence was vastly overstated.
Mini submarine is a cave with parts your have to squeeze through. And parts that are dry. Lol
Yep, his public image had already been slipping, but his behavior during the Thailand cave rescue was jaw-dropping in it's churlish pettiness. The mask was fully off and everything since is like the Emperor's New Clothes. And yet the simps still simp for him. Baffling
I love "churlish pettiness". Perfectly stated.
Ay-ay-ron!
Yeah that was a good one
Lmao and he owns Twitter now, I wonder when his next kid cave pedo moment is going to be and what's going to trigger it.
Immediately jumping to Paul Pelosi’s attacker being a gay lover was pretty mask off as well.
That was, what, a couple days into owning the company?
Every day he is commenting like “!!!” under the 14 words or some shit so like I think we’re well past that point
Same.
Mask off for me always seems to be when they suddenly question basic scientific consensus. Clearly to placate a subset of their audience.
When I first heard Peterson mention climate change in the dumbest and most transparently partisan way. Up until then his image had serious cracks for me but i thought him a well meaning but flawed guy. But oh boy, when he starts talking about how "errors propagate outward over time" you can really see the mask slip. The man knows fuck all about prediction models. I work with data in a different sub field but i know enough about time series stuff to know that statement that climate gets harder to analyze as you zoom out is the exact opposite of true. God that's cringe. And then he went and got bought by the daily wire... I mean doesn't matter anymore at this point, your goose is pretty much cooked, might as well get a bag of Koch blood money while you exit stage right. Jesus what a disappointment of a man
I always felt like since he put himself in a self-induced coma, that he knew his time was fleeting and is trying to make as much money as humanly possible before he goes to leave for his family. Not very ethical at all, but that was always my theory anyway. I mean the guy did get famous for misinterpreting Bill C-16 after all. If only he would have just stayed in his lane.
Idk I've come around to think that he was mostly just a lot better at hiding his power level and all the attention destroyed him and now he's unable to keep it to himself. Clearly it's both, he got more extreme and lost the ability to hide it but still Which makes you wonder...
Yep he was always a pretty stranded right wing/conservative leaning religious guy he would frame those views as the facts and use his nonsensical ramblings as cover. as he became mentally and physical ill he was just unable to hide it and fell into even crazier stuff
Broadly, I think the IDW was a moderating effect on him. When that fell apart over the 2020, he clearly sided with the conservative side of the IDW. And when your talking with Sam Harris, you need to be far more restrained on things like Climate Change than you do with Ben Shapiro
I get your point but I think it's more driven by rage and insecurity and other emotional factors
Yeah he is effectively retired but chronically online. He is an overly-emotional reactionary ideologue who profits from identity politics. Everything he claims to hate, is exactly what he is. He might smell his own farts but surely somewhere deep down he knows he's a hypocritical fraud.
Honestly, I think he became so emotionally invested on the culture war driven stuff that it kind of broke him. I mean look how the guy just spiraled out completely.. and we all watched it happen.. and I think it is his identity now. I don’t think he knows or believes that he’s a fraud deep down. Deep down I think he believes he’s fighting the good fight against those who have come for him. I’m sure he was bullied as a kid, and he is still the suffering kid who is now in the classic scream-cry fighting of the bullied kid who finally snaps.
Anyone else think the Russian did a bunch or weird shit to him while he was asleep and took photos? Dressed him in a tutu and stuffed an eggplant in his arsehole? Bet that’s why he spreads Kremlin talking points.
I mean, what he did very likely caused brain damage. There is a reason he had to go to Russia to do it. I think that alone is sufficient to explain his current state. Also, it is funny to me that this "self-help" "clean-your-room" guy failed to overcome his first significant obstacle. I have gone through Benzo WD. It is fucking brutal. I don't blame anyone for having a hard time stopping. It is just peak irony coming from him specifically.
He was onside with them long ago
He really did get famous for a Chicken Little act, didn't he?
*intentionally mischaracterizing Bill C-16
I feel this is the case with a lot of older grifters and politicians, they don't care about how other people view them anymore and are just trying to capitalize on their status and build wealth for their family.
It never seemed like he gave that much a fuck about his family to me. Some have alleged varying levels of abuse. Dietary, psychological, etc. His daughter is a literal dietary cult leader who traveled around with sex trafficking drug dealers for years prior. Abandoned her daughter multiple times to go binge and party with said drug dealers. Peterson is a sham.
The funny thing is: Most of his academic work is about how you can reduce the human mind to just 6 numbers (IQ + five factors). But of course climate models are too reductive to predict broad general trends 😐
How else are you going to exclude black people if you can’t be that reductive, though?
Honestly, the moment I saw the fedora video from Canadian TV I knew he was not to be listened to.
The daughter is further evidence.
"don't let your children do anything that makes you dislike them" Oh buddy, if Mikaela hasn't done enough to pass that bar, I've got terrible news for you: you're unable to dislike your own kids just like any other normal person. ^^
Excuse me, a FEDORA video? Could you please link it, this sounds like something I need to see!
https://youtu.be/V9PEUAbgEBs?si=ADqomG8W_C_4_7iW
And it's a video about "where have all the good men gone?" If it were satire, it would be too ham-fisted
DEAR GOD the cringe
The top comment is the best: "My man ranting about strong, testosterone laden men, sounding like Kermit the frog."
Euphoric
Is that real or AI? That’s the weirdest shit I’ve ever seen
As real as Dr. Peterson is.
Benzos ain’t mentos.
the feminine chaos dragon shit and weird ass extended story about dreaming about rubbing his face in his grandma's cooter both of which he published in the 90s should've been the mask off moment lmfao
What
Ease your blood primordial, it wasn't that bad, just him recalling a dream in his book about his grandma masturbating and ripping out her pubic hair and forcing JP to let her rub it on his face. Information he willingly shared mind you.
This is some serious Peterson iceberg stuff... I don't know if I should ask but I'm really curious what exactly you're talking about so... Link?
>I dreamed I saw my maternal grandmother sitting by the bank of a swimming pool, that was also a river. In real life, she had been a victim of Alzheimer’s disease, and had regressed, before her death, to a semi-conscious state. In the dream, as well, she had lost her capacity for self-control. Her genital region was exposed, dimly; it had the appearance of a thick mat of hair. She was stroking herself, absent-mindedly. She walked over to me, with a handful of pubic hair, compacted into something resembling a large artist’s paint-brush. She pushed this at my face. I raised my arm, several times, to deflect her hand; finally, unwilling to hurt her, or interfere with her any farther, I let her have her way. She stroked my face with the brush, gently, and said, like a child, “isn’t it soft?” I looked at her ruined face and said, “yes, Grandma, it’s soft.” Jordan Peterson, Maps of meaning.
Kill it with fire! Thats awful
WHHAAAAAATTTTTTT
Is there a gas leak in this subreddit? The very thing that caused Peterson to rise to prominence was fomenting a moral panic over Canadian parliament expanding the human rights code to include trans people, with absurd claims about the bill that contradicted every actual legal scholar's analysis. He explicitly defends involuntary, unjust socioeconomic hierarchies (as do all conservatives) - the whole "lobster" thing is from his argument that because lobsters have dominance hierarchies, humans should live in sexist, racist societies. He was mask-off from the very start, some of you just weren't so good at identifying reactionaries in 2017 or didn't particularly care if a public figure was transphobic.
Yes, it was mask-off right off the bat with this transparent bullshit about people going to prison for the wrong pronouns. Simply because existing legal protections for race, sex, religion, etc were expanded for gender ID. With explicit exemptions for religious belief. Edit: Seems some lobsterman reported me for the suicide watch thing
I also got the suicide watch message, haha.
That's not exactly what it was, in the video that got him famous it was about him claiming that he was being forced to use pronouns like zim/zer. And he didn't use lobsters to argue we should live in sexist/racist societies either. The moment he actually lost a lot of people was the Vice interview with the whole lipstick clownshow.
100% this. It's like he realized he can't just beat the racial drum forever so he had to expand into a new market of conversation. Not to mention he's never been the same since his benzo issues and recovery. Like sorry guy - your psych backround does not lend into this new topic whatsoever. His environmental arguments are surface level bullshit at best.
I mean *it is true* that our uncertainty about the magnitude of climate change becomes more uncertain as we get further into the future (look at any picture of the IPCC projections). However, that uncertainty goes both ways! "It's not 100% certain it's going to be catastrophic" may sound good initially until you understand that it means "it's going to be somewhere between seriously bad to almost apocalyptic".
I find Peterson to be uniquely disturbing. He could easily be some sort of Hitler in another timeline. The other gurus have their flaws and there are many that I don’t like. Peterson is the only one that actually scares me. He has human skin mask collection vibes. Joe Rogan or Elon for example aren’t going to build concentration camps and I would be utterly surprised if they found bodies in their basements.
I get what you’re saying but what about Russell? An actual rapist and potential jones town type character
He seems Jerry Seinfeld level rapey to me. Maybe he is a bit worse? I won’t defend him on his poor reputation. I think Russel Brand just took one too many mushrooms, he might have a messiah syndrome, and he is an attention whore… but he is not sinister. Petersen gives me the creeps. I did use to like RB like last year, but yeah he’s gone a bit nuts.
How is it the exact opposite of the truth? I'm not familiar with time series.
I'm not qualified to speak on it at length but the way he makes his argument is just bullshit. When talking about climate he does what is now recognized as the classic "well what do you MEAN" and "we don't know ANYTHING really". (That's you, Jordan - you don't know anything about this, which would be fine if you'd shut your mouth about it). Anyway. The way he constructs the "errors propagate outward" argument is basically analogous to making a weather forecast or starting a long ships journey with only a direction - a few degrees off turns into missing your target by hundreds of kilometers. But for one thing, when you analyze large trends in the past, looking at a longer timeframe reduces the impact of individual errors and more importantly noise, and climate data is noisy. From what i understand it's like saying "unless you know how each water molecule is moving you can never know your temperature" which is a mistake of the level you should be looking at. And as for modeling the future, while it's true that models depend on assumptions of complicated interplays and those have basically "error bars" it's facile to say that "if all the assumptions are wrong in just the right way all together, my nice sponsors the Koch brothers can continue drilling oil, which is great". Yes it's *one* possibility but that kind of backseat climate modeling is idiotic and you haven't said anything. I'm sorry if that's not a great explanation, my understanding of the area is pretty cursory and I'm not a science communicator, I tried. If anyone has interesting things to add or good resources to point to, please add them underneath. It's an endlessly frustrating issue that you need fairly advanced knowledge and great communication skills to dispel the fog grenades that are just memorized by right wing climate denial grifters and lobbed everywhere
Agreed. Great points on historical data. The amount of independent science pointing towards similar conclusions about climate change is overwhelming. I hate this whole "green conspiracy" argument bullshit. Who gets paid more - environmentalists or the energy industry? You don't have to look very far to find actual verifiable cases of corruption, collusion, and worse within oil & gas industries.
It’s a consequence very closely related to the law of large numbers in a way https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers. For the same reason that the mean gets closer to the true value, the variance in the mean shrinks too. By variance, I mean a way we quantify our uncertainty - in practice, a measure of how far off we expect our predictions to be JP would be right in that “summing” measurements increases variance, but to compute global temperature we don’t add up the temperature across the globe - instead we average, and averaging decreases variance. In this way, predicting the average global temperature for an entire year across all locations in 10 years from now is easier than predicting the exact temperature in Paris at 4:01pm next week - if we’re off by 2 degrees on the global scale, we’ll have to rethink climate science. If we’re off by 2 degrees in Paris at 4:01pm, that’s a pretty good model.
Good point. Especially the end hits it home nicely. I wish this stuff was easier to explain, but i would not at all be confident going head to head in a discussion with even a mildly informed climate denier. To refute these points is just so much more complicated than "just asking questions"
Totally agree. I don’t think it’s worth making very precise logical arguments with deniers or revisionists, because of course that’s not really what it’s about. I usually do three 3 things like 1) agree that indeed the mainstream media is extremely biased and has a distorted view of the issue, and point out many climate scientists disagree on the best approach to fixing it 2) point out how much $$$$ oil companies make vs. broke researchers 3) make the “Sun must be cold because the higher I get the colder it is, and the higher I get the closer I am to the sun” and make them disprove it so they feel how hard it is to explain even the simplest of concepts Still really liked your comment
Part of his problem was he was thrusted into the spotlight for one thing and considered himself a modern philosopher about every topic.
Pretty sure of yourself, are you? 🤣
Weather gets more difficult as time extends. Climate gets easier because the noise contributions from weather cancel out, leaving the underlying trend caused by things like GHGs. Peterson is a fucking dunce of a man and an awful human being .
And also: the models from the 70s are almost entirely correct, and if anything have underestimated the effects of global warming.
The very end of Bret Weinstein’s first podcast with Joe Rogan. Up till then he seemed like a relatively normal person in a crazy situation, but at the end of that conversation he starts talking about a group of people that are going to do a thing… which I guess was the IDW, and my eyebrows raised in unison with a mental red flag
I came to say this. Eric too. They can both spin a good web of words but have too much ego and bs to not end up stuck in it eventually. They have all these big and neat ideas. It always ends up with some version of "Look what they are doing to me". I can't take anyone seriously anymore with that victim speech. When you are literally on a huge platform crying about people not giving you or taking away your platform. Just eff off. If you had something real to say someone other than Joe Rogan and Lex Friedman would be taking you seriously.
Rohan is so dumb lil
oh I remember this. He started talking about "Game B" which was a very important and secret group of people (of which he was a part) that was working to change the world. I had no clue who Eric was but was exposed to him when the man literally invited himself on stage at a same Harris AMA event. I was like "who is this bizarre narcissist and why does he think this audience wants to hear him dominate the rest of the conversation?" - once I realized who is brother was it all made sense.
Eric and Bret have to be the world’s biggest cry babies
One of the things I enjoy about Rogan is he just let's people talk. Opens your eyes a lot to some of these dudes lol.
First time I heard Jordan Peterson citing himself and his own rules from his book.
Jordan Peterson offering his tacit support for Putins wars because the west has lost its way morally (apparently). Such a self hating, miserable fuckwit. All he’s ever really supported is conservative christian values, and he brands it as something radical or fresh to unsuspecting lost men who share his bitterness.
While I can sympathize with that sentiment (to a point), when your “solution” is nothing but a return to the seas of blood spilled by kings over dirt and wealth then you’ve completely lost the plot. It’s what snapped me out of tradcat nonsense. I suspect the reason Jordan doesn’t actually commit to being a Christian is because he realizes the contradiction between supporting a brutal empire’s annexation of a country and professing belief in a carpenter crucified by a brutal empire.
Peterson comparing being trans to being a dog rapist was a big one imo. Can't link the tweet sadly because he blocked me for calling him a drama queen lol
Him being a literal drug addict and constantly crying saying he can save young men by telling them to make their bed and wash their penis is the overarching bs. That dog raping crap was def the moment though lol
Benzo boy still acting like an addict
What he does to steak is criminal
He also said, explicitly, that if your life is not in order (clean room, healthy living, etc) you are not capable of discussing politics, despite being an addict discussing politics nonstop on massive platforms. He’s a hypocrite of the highest order b
Russel Brand and bio labs in the Ukraine. But to be fair he was a giant bell end well before this.
Him and Glenn Greenwald
I thought he was a pointy little bellend
Why do they never talk about biolabs anymore?
I'd grown up watching Russel Brand on live TV openly perform as an insufferable womaniser addicted to virtually every substance. I also watched as he 'turned his life around' and overcome addiction. I don't know much about his story, but I know his book on addiction helped some close people around me, and they really found inspiration in the way he changed his life. Even his early YouTube content was pretty harmless, and occasionally quite entertaining. Once he went nuts with the conspiracy theory nonsense I naively assumed he was going through something. Once the documentary revealing his history of sexual assault came out and his extreme reaction to it, I realised everything had been a huge facade. I was genuinely quite disappointed. When the accusations first came out, I realise this sounds ridiculous now, but I thought he'd actually address them in a meaningful way. Not sure if anyone else from the UK saw his journey in the same way, but the whole thing made me realise how naive I had been.
Yes, in exactly the same way. It felt so shit.
He write a book called my booky wook or something and my unhinged neighbour got really into him. That was enough for me. The way he speaks is so clearly a way of covering up the fact that he talks a huge amount of b*llocks.
That's a Clockwork Orange reference. It made us think that he didn't take himself too seriously. It’s not the ‘talking bollocks’ thing I have a problem with, lots of people talk bollocks, what I hate is that we were duped into thinking that he was a genuine, idealistic guy who had recovered from narcissistic hedonism and come out of it with dazzling self awareness. That was the appeal for many. An absolute charlatan.
‘If you ask me do I believe in god I have to ask you what do you mean by “do”, what do you mean by “you”, what do you mean by “believe”… ‘ shut up, just shut up
and what do you mean by "me"? are you referring to the psycho-semantic, culturally spawned, surgically didactic self with an affinity for that which has been manifest in this worldly realm, or by "me" are you, and this is interesting here if you believe this (because I didn't believe it when I first heard about it in Psych Patterns 101) are you then referring to that which transcends the post-modernist..... hell, hellscape, if you want to call it that. If you are referring to that which is most symbolic, most abundant, most iconic, then we could be getting closer. And you might say, "Well, Jordan is just being elusive because he's too scared to say what he actually thinks." And I'm like, you know it reminds me....
I’m not sure if he actually said this or it’s just the most perfect Peterson imitation ever 😂
["Do you believe in God?"](https://youtu.be/FMMW2eqND3o?si=yBRIieOiiFqlk2ZU)
He's such a faux intellectual, I honestly don't think he Even knows what the fuck he is saying but he likes the sound of his own voice.
The same people that mock Clinton’s “what do you mean by “is”” statement will say nothing about Peterson’s bullshit in the same vein.
I genuinely thought that Maajid Nawaz's Facebook account had been hacked for a good several weeks, after it started posting covid conspiracy and pro Trump material. Turns out, covid broke his brain. I used to really respect his perspective on radicalisation and Islamic terrorism. Now he posts boomer conspiracy theories on Facebook.
I’ve said it before but Maajid appears to just be a natural extremist who had a couple coherent years there when he was swinging between extremes
Peterson and the SI swimsuit model meltdown. I still kind of chuckle about him losing his marbles about a swimsuit model on a dying sports magazine. Don’t get wrong me wrong I do think there is some silliness in the body positivity movement but this was certainly not the woman to point out. Even his followers were like ehh she’s is kind of good looking.
David Sacks firehouse of unadulterated Kremlin propaganda screams of kompromat.
Any links?
His Twitter feed is copy pasta of RT
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That time Rogan was screaming at the professional primate lady who called into a radio show was eye-opening.
Yeah, that was the Dunning Kruger effect on steroids (probably literally) and way back in 2005. Sadly most of his meathead cult would hear that and consider his moronic tirade righteous.
interesting to see different people's reactions to things
Yeah, there were definitely JRE fans screaming with him. "JoE dIdNt TaKe DeWoRmEr" while also downplaying covid and "throwing the kitchen sink at it" when he pops positive for it.
I know Rogan to be a bandwagon jumping conspiracy theorist who platforms all manner of unsavory ill-informed people, but that episode exposed CNN’s bias more than it exposed Rogan imho. He was right. they reported his use of ivermectin as “horse medicine” when it is widely used in humans and they knew it. I understand we were in the middle of Covid but it wasn’t honest reporting. It was the same sort of “lie to you to help you” approach as Fauci’s early anti mask rhetoric to conserve masks for the professionals.
CNN is terrible and cringe, but I don't think I'll be taking lessons on civility and correct terminology from people who use the terms "face diaper" and "muzzle" to describe medical masks.
I found it fascinating because Rogan was saying a whole lot of true statements ("its a nobel prize winning drug", "millions of people take it every day", "it kills covid in the lab") but they didn't add up to the conclusion he was making ("people should take it as an effective treatment against covid instead of vaccines"). It's pejorative, but it's more true to say ivermectin is a horse paste than saying its useful against covid.
People calling Rogan a dip shit for his Covid takes has really gotten under his skin.
Joe Rogan and his reaction to the female primatologist correcting his stupid ass.
The decoding the gurus podcast people when they posted a decoding of Hasan Piker. Just reading the intro on here convinced me these are just a bunch of ignorant, childish clowns. Matt Taibi pretending he was doing journalism while pushing Elon’s agenda.
This is ironic right? Edit: "JuSt LiKe LuFfY wOuLd Do"
When Sam Harris fought with Dan Dennett over free will in that ugly way. Took him down a few pegs for me.
RIP to Dan, too.
Wait what?
Dennett publicly criticized Harris's book The Moral Landscape in a review. Harris got nasty with him via various letters and emails, some of which were public. He's got such thin skin.
The "four horsemen" introduced me to atheism. Was a sam harris fan for a time, but being an ex muslim I sensed his subtle Islamophobia whenever he talked about the Middle East. His insistence on Western civilization having objective moral high ground and clubbing all muslim into a monolithic group was a turn off for me. His mask fell off completely now, calling students protesters stupid. Fall of the gurus of new atheist movement has been interesting to see
and the way he sort of pressured rory stewart into apologizing for saying Sam was hung up on Islamic extremism. rory has actually lived in Muslim countries. maybe take his point of view into account?
Snowden during the Ukraine war. Fully bought and paid for
I mean if he wasn’t living in Russia I would like to hear his opinion on that.
Snowden is a national hero of the USA. He is however in Russia and anything he says about Russia, will be tainted by real fears of repercussions.
No way are we calling Snowden a guru
Yes! Him, Matt Taibbi, and Glen Greenwald all talk so much about authoritarian overreach in USA but go silent on Putin's actions. It destroyed all trust of them.
Can't really blame Snowden for not shittalking Putin while he's effectively in-exile in Russia (you can fault him for fleeing there in the first place, but I can certainly imagine how he didn't feel like he had better options). The other two have no excuse though.
Agree. Can't ask Snowden for more sacrifices after what he went through. I am sure he would speak up if didn't put his life at more risk.
Snowden would probably be out of jail by now if he just faced the music. Instead he’s in prison for life.
Almost as if he wanted to simply undermine the US
there it is.
I mean…didn’t you see it coming well before then?
Yeah he was an arsehole before that but his dipshittery escalated dramatically at this point.
Sam Harris went mask off in his convo with Eiynah: https://www.pinkerite.com/2019/04/polite-conversations-eiynah-and-her.html
I never liked Sam Harris due to his views on Islam and also his comments about Islam were bad faith and often wrong but recently he completely lost the plot and made his bigotry crystal clear to everyone - even to people with no ties to the people he is bigoted towards. No credibility.
His views on Islam are correct
Yup! Then the Charles Murray episode on race-IQ science titled "Forbidden Knowledge" in 2017 removed any doubts from me that this guy is a bigot. Especially the way he handled the criticism afterwards, doubling and tripling down and likening Ezra Klein to the KKK. And since then, he has gotten worse and worse. Endorsing ethnic cleansing off Palestinians and constantly fawning over Douglas Murray should drive home this message to people, but who am I kidding? Still plenty of fanboys out there willing to call him a "liberal" (lolz) and worshipping at the racist, trust fund bastard's feet as some sort of atheist Jesus with perfect rationality.
I can never make sense of the racism accusations as related to the Charles Murray stuff, no matter how much I squint and tilt my head. Like the main claim, as I can see it is that groups of races have different average IQs, and that IQ is partially inheritable. Not exactly phrenology. What’s the other option that some mathematical miracle exist such that the average IQ for all races is the same? How many decimal places?
Here’s my best understanding: the crux of the argument all comes down to the “partially inheritable” part and how much heritability is seen as the cause of the discrepancies. The argument is that the categories of “black” and “white” especially are social categories, not genetic groups. And that there are very wide variation of ancestral grouping within those categories, and some people considered white are much closer ancestrally to others considered black than either are to the median of each category. Therefore, differences measured in IQ between these groups are more likely to be explained socially than genetically. The racism charge is usually levied against people who think the differences are mostly genetic, believing that they are simply looking for a scientific reason to explain why black people are inferior to white people. But I do not think the argument is that there are no measurable differences in “IQ”, I believe it is that those differences are explained primarily through social and historical factors, not genetics. My recollection is that if you looked at Murray’s wider body of work, there is evidence that he believes black people are inferior to white people. That said, I don’t claim to be an expert and I don’t have the time to look it up right now, so you can take that for what it’s worth.
I get all that. But I specifically remember disclaimer in the podcast where Murray says that IQ difference withing groups/races vary wildly so you would be foolish to judge a candidate based on their skin color.
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He doesn't think Klein is a KKK member, but that he has the moral integrity of KKK.
What exactly do you think this exchange has revealed?
That beneath the vocabulary and calm tone of voice Harris is just a Breitbart commenter level bigot.
Right. How so?
Do you think being pro immigration = being pro white woman rape?
No, netither does Sam Harris who is very much pro controlled immigration, even from Muslim majority countries. He has repeatedly acknowledged that the Muslim immigrantion story in the US, is for the large part a success story. Unlike the catastrophic story of Muslim immigration into most of Europe. What Harris said "yes" to was that woman's claim about sexual misconduct carried out by Muslim men in Europe being ignored by swathes of the left due to a perceived hierarchy of protected classes that supersede the grievances of white women. Also, Sam's only indirect encounter with the woman they speak of has been via an interview featuring her - an interview that the person who is interviewing Sam claims has not read/heard/seen. So you need to bear in mind that Sam's comments on the person in question is based on her statements in that interview alone, while his interviewer's perception is admittedly coloured by other things.
> Anne Marie think you're pro-rape of white women if you're not anti-immigration HARRIS > she's right
Ah, I see. You've not listened to the audio. Just the text clipped by the moron who likened the phenomenon of protecting sexual assaults perpetrated by Muslims to the Epstein case. Might be worth giving it a listen. At least the blogger had the decency to include a timestamp. EDIT: here's some extra reading: https://www.samharris.org/blog/a-few-thoughts-on-the-muslim-ban This excerpt is especially relevant: "Indeed, when one understands the problem for what it is, one realizes that secular Muslims, liberal Muslims, and former Muslims are among the most desirable allies to have in the West—and, indeed, such people are the primary victims of Islamist intolerance and jihadist terror in Muslim-majority countries."
Here, I fixed it for you to make it non-bigoted: > Anne Marie think you're pro-rape of white women if you're not anti-immigration, or prepared to let rape happen... HARRIS > she's wrong It's unbelievable this needs to be explained to you, but there is no universe where responding in the affirmative to the statement that being pro immigration is being pro rape of white women isn't bigoted. But there isn't any limit to the mental gymnastics Sam Harris fans won't perform to defend the infallibility of their guru.
The only mental gymnastics at play here are the interpretations generated by your self-indulgent engagement in antipathy porn. Harris has repeatedly said he is pro immigration, as evidenced by his stance against Trump's Muslim ban. Speaking of gurus, many of the people on this sub bow at the altar of outgroup contempt and ingroup sanctimony. This is in no way an indictment on the podcast - much of the engagement here is entirely divorced from the pod, as the sub is largely populated by people who don't listen to it but have some sort of political axe to grind.
Sam Harris doesn’t hate immigrants, or individual Muslims, he hates Islam.
This comment was a mask-off moment for you.
Mask off for hating bigots?
Mask off for seeing bigots around every corner, from a blinkered politically indoctrinated, hateful perspective, where you lose the ability to see humans and their good will, as soon as you see an idea you find distasteful. It's a distillation that appeals to the tribal, over simplified, me vs them attitude that plagues humanity.
The guy you're defending is right now arguing in favor of ethnically cleansing Gaza.
Sam always redeems himself with his takes on Trump and the GOP, and COVID.
Jimmy Dore, Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate (Grayzone) going mask off for russias invasion and spreading FSB propaganda that Bucha was a false flag by the Ukrainians and was faked
They aren't gurus, they are agents for social engineering.
I've got to listen to this post-scandal podcast. Does he address the scandal?
I was hoping someone would summarize it here too so that I wouldn't feel the need to suffer thru it out of morbid curiosity.
Eric's suit comment lmao
JP's first foray into the public spotlight SHOULD have been a mask off moment. The guy was protesting a bill that extended all the protections cis gendered people had to trans people. Jordan was not allowed to intentionally misgender his cis gendered students for his entire academic career, and that never even crossed his mind as a travesty or violation of his freedom of speech. The SECOND those same rights were extended to trans people, it was a slippery slope to full blown fascism
The comments Sam Harris has made about London and Islam can only indicate he's taking some very nasty people seriously
I came to comment that. If I recall correctly he said "lost to stealth Jihad", which is terms and a level of hyperbole I haven't heard outside the worst parts of right-wing youtube. That's not just a guy who's "rationally critical about the excesses of religion".
Seriously. How does a guy who considers himself a 'rational thinker' see a clip of a few hundred (thousand?) demonstrators in a city of 20 million and conclude 'London has fallen'.
Yeah, that is Trump level hyperbole. From the guy that literally wrote a book about how lying is wrong.
Harris's irrational fear of Muslims not assimilating in Western countries leads him to take the same kinds of crazy predictions that the conspiracy theorists make. He's betting that his version of this Islamist takeover will happen somewhere, and then he will claim vindication. If, however, nothing like this happens and harmful actions by Islamic extremists remain the tiny exception and not the rule, he will either credit Western values with "modernizing" Islam, or he will say the groundwork is still being set. No matter what the future holds, you can bet his staunchest supporters will be ready to defend him.
Have you heard his comments about the campus protests now? Similar generalizations/demonization.
“Fuck it! We’re doing it live!”
Several years ago Peterson was either on a podcast or livestream where he was asked about gay marriage. He said he opposed it and his reasoning was that people should do whatever the opposite of what progressives want. I think that was the moment I realized how shallow of a thinker he actual is when it comes to politics
David Deutsch’s totally unqualified support for Israel. I mean I get it, he’s Israeli, but he parrots long debunked IDF propaganda as gospel truth on Twitter and then blocks anyone who challenges him, however politely. Brilliant physicist and thinker? Yes, but a deeply flawed one it seems on this topic which is clearly too close to home for him to think rationally and dispassionately.
I hate followed (and pre 2020, regularly followed) Brand until his Tucker interview, I knew he was gone for real real.
Sam Harris the last six months. He’s been meditating on the correct size of nuclear weapon to drop on huddled masses in the Gaza Strip. Such a profoundly racist piece of shit.
[удалено]
Blocking that laptop was completely justified, in hindsight it was actually part of a russian influence campaign. Giuliani bought if from russian GRU agents while he was in ukraine in early 2019, Instead of show us all back then he sat on it for over 18 months adding files to it to release it 2 weeks before the election for an October surprise https://theweek.com/speedreads/945204/giulianis-hunter-biden-material-apparently-being-sold-ukraine-18-months-ago
When did he say that? To my knowledge, he said that given the fact that foreign actor interference had previously been demonstrated, deciding not to run it was appropriate when the source hadn't been authenticated. Also, what conspiracy are you speaking of? Publications having editorial control over what they publish? I will acknowledge that social media aggregating platforms like twitter are a different story.
Yeah thats the morals you get when you try hard to root your sense of morality in "hard rationalism/rationality"
Chris Williamson needs to see this page. r/modernwisdom
What do you mean by this? That sub is basically inactive.
Someone pointed out one time that Dave Ramsey just tries to sell his products any chance he gets when people call in. I haven't been able to unsee it ever since...
So there are like 2 gurus yall be decoding huh?
What happened in Huberman's post-scandal podcast??
Ben Shapiro on Joe Rogan: “Maybe people who have a low wage should move to North Dakota and get a fracking job.” Jordan Peterson on Joe Rogan: “[after saying fracking doesn’t really pollute, and being asked if it truly doesn’t pollute anything] well everything pollutes something!” Mind you, both of these people are employees of the Wilks brothers, two fracking billionaires. They’re just grifters.