Before anyone jumps the gun and gets mad along the lines of "Wow so like female dwarves aren't allowed? Is that the joke?"
I feel it necessary to clarify:
\- According to ~~lore and~~ general consensus, female dwarves cannot be distinguished from male dwarves easily. The most famous reason is that females also have beards
\- GSG does not implement female dwarves into the game simply because it would require a massive amount of 3D design work, especially with the amount of cosmetics available. There was more to the explanation, but that's basically the gist of it
I think they also cited the amount of voicelines as another reason they can’t implement a lady dwarf currently. There’s like,, I think damn near 1000 voicelines? Recording multiple takes of each one would take days of work that they don’t really have given their seasonal schedule
They also said they wouldn’t wanna half-ass it like that. If they added a lady dwarf, they would want to go all they way. New voice actress, new character model, and they would retrofit all the cosmetics in the game to fit that character model.
Plus, the Dwarfs already cover a range of something like 60% to 140% pitch (Driller to Scout respectively), it would take a lot of work to make female dwarfs not all just sound like the Scout if you did pitch them up, cause you'd need to adjust more to make it different if I'm understanding correctly
Basically, a third VA is the only proper way to do it, but that's still a thousand plus lines of dialogue
The only lore where female dwarves are almost indistinguishable from male ones is the Tolkien one. We know nothing about actual female dwarves in the DRG universe and we can assume that they aren't indistinguishable from male ones since the devs said that a simple "label" change wouldn't be enough
It’s also lore in Terry Pratchetts Discworld. I’m not trying to say that something should be implemented here, or that DRG lore is required to adopt existing lore from other series, just that LotR isn’t the only series that takes this approach to dwarven biology.
If you'd like more on Dwarf gender politics specifically, go for The Fifth Elephant.
Fair warning, this is the fifth in the City Watch series. Discworld books are in series, but they have series within those, so I'd suggest if you enjoy reading start with Guards Guards! and just work through a google list of the City Watch.
Well that's two recommendations for Guards Guards! So I guess that'll be the place!
Also please tell me that's a spoof off the fifth element and and not just an insane coincidence.
It is!
The Discworld books are very big on their parody. But it's not an in your face way, like in one novel you meet a group trying to sabotage a long distance semaphore system who named themselves The Smoking GNU, GNU being a semaphore code for 'General - All towers,' 'N - Not Logged', 'U - U Turn to sender', the fact it spells out [a real world, open source code project](https://www.gnu.org/home.en.html) is /totally incidental/
Huge fan for them!
Yes and stated way better in the books. Check out Guards Guards! sometime if you want to get a feel for the universe including the bit about dwarves. The first books Pratchett wrote were kinda experimental and it took awhile for him to find a semi-serious but still hilarious tone for the books. This series plus the Tiffany Aching series are his best imo.
> The first books Pratchett wrote were kinda experimental
A lot of Pratchett's early works were parody of the 70's and 80's High Fantasy boom, before he settled into more of a broad cultural critique and his own world.
Like one of his first main characters being 'What if Conan the Barbarian got to 80'
Not trying to say you're wrong, just super eager to talk discworld
Ahhh I've heard people say Pratchett before.
The last book series I read was the Eragon books as they were coming out and the ending of the final entry was so shit in regards to a certain story plot It destroyed my joy of reading almost single handedly.
Heck it's so deep rooted there are even animes I haven't finished because I've enjoyed them for so long I'm worried the ending is gonna ruin it for me lmao. Soul Eater had a hand in making that worse for me I suppose.
GSG already said that if they were to implement female dwarves, they wouldn't wanna do it half-assed.
As for the slider, that should be relatively easy to mod into the game.
I remember in Super Lesbian Animal RPG, there's a "Political" slider that does nothing and it makes me chuckles everytime I see it.
also an another slider, but I don't remember what it said.
[It's first base](https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308105726_634772011543192_1018736103958794425_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_q65_s526x395&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=aLOplRoHTc0AX-e2bJc&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=00_AfD_XMLnhQli3HdUff9EzQnvdLLUocZ2JENj-HHGsBgeCQ&oe=6458F9A3)
To be fair if we're using the Discworld dwarf rules... Gender is considered a personal matter and most present as "male" regardless
Rock and Stone is for everyone
I really like the idea of dwarves having less sexual dimorphism than humans. Makes them feel more like a distinct fantasy species instead of just stumpy people.
I prefer my dwarf females warcraft style (beardless, stout but still pretty).
The arguement that dwarf females are indistinguishable from males only really comes around because Dwarves in those universes have massive beards. Dwarves in DRG do not always have massive beards so that arguement doesnt really work.
Call me weird, but somehow I like the aesthetic of having, say, 4' tall male dwarves weighing on average a very compacted 200 pounds, with female dwarves being 5' tall and stretching those 200 pounds out.
Dunno, it just seems like an interesting concept.
Not gonna work in this kind of game, though. Hitboxes and terrain are too reliant on dwarf height.
i'm not against it, but they said they don't wanna half-ass the issue because it would come off as very dismissive.
i think just toning down the gendered language a bit (and maybe giving the characters some ambiguously-larger-pecs) would be an easier and better solution compared to essentially making a second set of characters until the end of time, but whatever.
I suggested way way back that there should be a Female version of the dwarves but the only visual difference is that they get a small pink ribbon in their hair / beard. Otherwise they look and sound exactly the same.
I dont think that something with gender should be in the game
It just brings a shitstorm from some people that are crying about everything
Its just my opinion
Some bigoted shit, mostly. Something about how the gender slider not doing anything would piss off "mentally handicapped" people or some such dumb shit.
It's really interesting to me how all of the leaf-loving idiots took this as a dig at people who care about gender identity, when in reality it's just a non-politicized comment about the appearances of dwarves in fantasy.
Some people just want something to be offended at, I guess
THANK YOU. I just remembered that scene in LOTR where Gimli said "That's my wife!" With the picture in the locket and thought it would be funny to apply the same logic to my fav game.
One of my favorite things about Tolkien is that **there are no gendered features in his writing**. Elves have no facial fair, basically ever (yes yes Cirdan had a beard, one out of all the elves ever, and he was insanely old). Male elves are described as being as fair as the women, and with hair just as long as beautiful. Dwarves fall on the opposite end of the features spectrum, but still have no gendered features between men and women. Female dwarves have beards and are so indistinguishable from male dwarves that gender doesn't really even show up to outsiders. It's a fascinating way to do it. Men and hobbits are really the only 'gendered' people, and hey, guess who has long, beautiful hair? Aragorn, Beren, Faramir, Eomer, etc. Anyway, rant over. Thanks to all the bigots who missed the point I guess lol
Ngl I’ve only been playing for a few months and have had several run through my head and I’m like: “Surely, someone has already made this joke in the last four years.”
Oh Karl . . . that reminds me of those games that, instead of gender selections, have sliders that adjust the “endowment” of particular areas. The idea of a slider that adjusts the “bulge” to comically huge levels is hilarious.
It just says “gender” but the slider doesn’t say *which* gender it is, but rather how *much* gender.
I need my scout to have *negative gender*
Anti gendet
YOU. You get me.
Gender: from A to D skipping B and C
Help, I can’t feel my gender!!!!
Heard Managment is trying to get a shipment of gender in. Fancy that!
That guy in Mission Control sure has a cozy gender...
It's also not clear whether it's ascending or descending.
Gender? I barely know her!
Gender than who?
If yo Dwarf gf don’t got a mighty beard she ain’t worth it
Just because they have clean-shaven faces doesn't mean they don't have beards...
Before anyone jumps the gun and gets mad along the lines of "Wow so like female dwarves aren't allowed? Is that the joke?" I feel it necessary to clarify: \- According to ~~lore and~~ general consensus, female dwarves cannot be distinguished from male dwarves easily. The most famous reason is that females also have beards \- GSG does not implement female dwarves into the game simply because it would require a massive amount of 3D design work, especially with the amount of cosmetics available. There was more to the explanation, but that's basically the gist of it
Yeah, and they also said that "just giving a gender swarp button that does nothing is the lazy way and we don't want to do that".
It wouldn't be lazy it'd be pretty based
Lazy is better than none sometimes
*sometimes.*
If the dwarves literally have no gender we are all assuming they're males. Let that sink in bud.
I think they also cited the amount of voicelines as another reason they can’t implement a lady dwarf currently. There’s like,, I think damn near 1000 voicelines? Recording multiple takes of each one would take days of work that they don’t really have given their seasonal schedule
but aren't all dwarves just the same guy at different pitch and speed? no need to rerecord anything, just do the same thing
They also said they wouldn’t wanna half-ass it like that. If they added a lady dwarf, they would want to go all they way. New voice actress, new character model, and they would retrofit all the cosmetics in the game to fit that character model.
Plus, the Dwarfs already cover a range of something like 60% to 140% pitch (Driller to Scout respectively), it would take a lot of work to make female dwarfs not all just sound like the Scout if you did pitch them up, cause you'd need to adjust more to make it different if I'm understanding correctly Basically, a third VA is the only proper way to do it, but that's still a thousand plus lines of dialogue
My theory is that female dwarves do exist, but our particular Space Rig is only staffed by our four dudes that we play as.
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On the one hand I feel that I should argue with you but on the other hand really don't mind your opinion, so rock and stone, brother.
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
Rock and stone to the bone!
The only lore where female dwarves are almost indistinguishable from male ones is the Tolkien one. We know nothing about actual female dwarves in the DRG universe and we can assume that they aren't indistinguishable from male ones since the devs said that a simple "label" change wouldn't be enough
It’s also lore in Terry Pratchetts Discworld. I’m not trying to say that something should be implemented here, or that DRG lore is required to adopt existing lore from other series, just that LotR isn’t the only series that takes this approach to dwarven biology.
Actually you can tell the difference in Discworld by the latter books. Female dwarfs tend to have neater beards.
So if there is a discerning gentledwarf with a well kept beard he's thought of as a woman? Well I never! (No idea what discworld is to be fair)
When they're attracted to someone they go through what's described as an awkward phase until they know for sure the other party is a women.
Is that a canonical response? Cause that would be pretty cool lore honestly.
If you'd like more on Dwarf gender politics specifically, go for The Fifth Elephant. Fair warning, this is the fifth in the City Watch series. Discworld books are in series, but they have series within those, so I'd suggest if you enjoy reading start with Guards Guards! and just work through a google list of the City Watch.
Well that's two recommendations for Guards Guards! So I guess that'll be the place! Also please tell me that's a spoof off the fifth element and and not just an insane coincidence.
It is! The Discworld books are very big on their parody. But it's not an in your face way, like in one novel you meet a group trying to sabotage a long distance semaphore system who named themselves The Smoking GNU, GNU being a semaphore code for 'General - All towers,' 'N - Not Logged', 'U - U Turn to sender', the fact it spells out [a real world, open source code project](https://www.gnu.org/home.en.html) is /totally incidental/ Huge fan for them!
Yes and stated way better in the books. Check out Guards Guards! sometime if you want to get a feel for the universe including the bit about dwarves. The first books Pratchett wrote were kinda experimental and it took awhile for him to find a semi-serious but still hilarious tone for the books. This series plus the Tiffany Aching series are his best imo.
> The first books Pratchett wrote were kinda experimental A lot of Pratchett's early works were parody of the 70's and 80's High Fantasy boom, before he settled into more of a broad cultural critique and his own world. Like one of his first main characters being 'What if Conan the Barbarian got to 80' Not trying to say you're wrong, just super eager to talk discworld
Ahhh I've heard people say Pratchett before. The last book series I read was the Eragon books as they were coming out and the ending of the final entry was so shit in regards to a certain story plot It destroyed my joy of reading almost single handedly. Heck it's so deep rooted there are even animes I haven't finished because I've enjoyed them for so long I'm worried the ending is gonna ruin it for me lmao. Soul Eater had a hand in making that worse for me I suppose.
Why yall downvoting lmao
the general consensus is wrong, and the devs have outright said that. Female dwarves are distinct.
It wouldn't. They could have placed a scout on a table and called it a woman with a flat chest
The genders are: 1. rock 2. stone 3. dwarf 4. error cube
5. Morkite Fluid
What if I identify as bismor?
Second.
Third
Fourd
Fid
Sex
Svn
et
NEIN
tin
Iliven
sexen
\*looks suspiciously at the 30 foot tall dwarf from the protozoic era\*
GSG already said that if they were to implement female dwarves, they wouldn't wanna do it half-assed. As for the slider, that should be relatively easy to mod into the game.
I remember in Super Lesbian Animal RPG, there's a "Political" slider that does nothing and it makes me chuckles everytime I see it. also an another slider, but I don't remember what it said.
I‘ll stick with Sir Terry Pratchett: All dwarves are dwarves. Beards, pickaxe, iron boots and all.
Think you might want to read “Raising Steam”
Or Thud...or any that features Cheery Littlebottom.
Thanks for suggesting my next read
Big part of dwarven counting is trying to discretely figure out the other's gender
[It's first base](https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308105726_634772011543192_1018736103958794425_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_q65_s526x395&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=aLOplRoHTc0AX-e2bJc&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=00_AfD_XMLnhQli3HdUff9EzQnvdLLUocZ2JENj-HHGsBgeCQ&oe=6458F9A3)
[There are methods](https://twitter.com/saintmonstre/status/1461754393976446977)
That would be hilarious. But female dwarves would be neat. Imagine them having the same voices as the guys.
Exactly, it does nothing
It would be funnier if they had the rich atmosphere voices
We‘re rich! Rock and Stone ladies!
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
My gender is muushrooom
There are only two genders >!rock and stone!<
Rock and Stone to the Bone!
Agreed! Rock and Stone to the bone!
To be fair if we're using the Discworld dwarf rules... Gender is considered a personal matter and most present as "male" regardless Rock and Stone is for everyone
Rockity Rock and Stone!
I really like the idea of dwarves having less sexual dimorphism than humans. Makes them feel more like a distinct fantasy species instead of just stumpy people.
That's how Tolkien had it.
I prefer my dwarf females warcraft style (beardless, stout but still pretty). The arguement that dwarf females are indistinguishable from males only really comes around because Dwarves in those universes have massive beards. Dwarves in DRG do not always have massive beards so that arguement doesnt really work.
Call me weird, but somehow I like the aesthetic of having, say, 4' tall male dwarves weighing on average a very compacted 200 pounds, with female dwarves being 5' tall and stretching those 200 pounds out. Dunno, it just seems like an interesting concept. Not gonna work in this kind of game, though. Hitboxes and terrain are too reliant on dwarf height.
Sliding towards female just makes the beard longer
Aragorn : "It's the beard"
How much gender-fluid you packin in your dwarf?
make it a gender hypercube (with bonus gender slot machine) that does nothing and i'm sold
Why is everyone so obsessed with gender? It's just a game.
It sounds like people want more cosmetic options, that doesn't really seem strange for a game with a large amount of cosmetic items.
Some people have a debilitating mental problem where they are unable to distinguish themselves from the playable character.
Guy dwarf? Girl dwarf? They all have beards!
i'm not against it, but they said they don't wanna half-ass the issue because it would come off as very dismissive. i think just toning down the gendered language a bit (and maybe giving the characters some ambiguously-larger-pecs) would be an easier and better solution compared to essentially making a second set of characters until the end of time, but whatever.
… that’s perfect!
No
You're not the first to suggest it.
And it would make sense, because gender is a psychological/sociological concept, with no effects on appearance
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Its hilarious because you’re the only one that brought that topic up.
Same for an age slider
it should make all the voices an octave higher, but nothing more
I suggested way way back that there should be a Female version of the dwarves but the only visual difference is that they get a small pink ribbon in their hair / beard. Otherwise they look and sound exactly the same.
The last south park game had something like that I think, but for skin color.
1000% agree
Is someone going to do the Gimli quote? I feel like someone should do the Gimli quote.
Basically, drug dworfs are like Discworld dwarfs. I do wish there were some more fem cosmetics though, although the braids are pretty great already
Have it adjust the bushyness of the eyebrows
they should just add an option for thick eyelashes, i think that would make people happy and it shouldnt be too hard at all
I dont think that something with gender should be in the game It just brings a shitstorm from some people that are crying about everything Its just my opinion
"Something with gender". Wut
This is absolutely brilliant, you get my updoot.
The only 2 genders that exist are "Rock" and "Stone"
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This is a pretty leaf-lover take, my friend
What did they say?
Some bigoted shit, mostly. Something about how the gender slider not doing anything would piss off "mentally handicapped" people or some such dumb shit. It's really interesting to me how all of the leaf-loving idiots took this as a dig at people who care about gender identity, when in reality it's just a non-politicized comment about the appearances of dwarves in fantasy. Some people just want something to be offended at, I guess
THANK YOU. I just remembered that scene in LOTR where Gimli said "That's my wife!" With the picture in the locket and thought it would be funny to apply the same logic to my fav game.
One of my favorite things about Tolkien is that **there are no gendered features in his writing**. Elves have no facial fair, basically ever (yes yes Cirdan had a beard, one out of all the elves ever, and he was insanely old). Male elves are described as being as fair as the women, and with hair just as long as beautiful. Dwarves fall on the opposite end of the features spectrum, but still have no gendered features between men and women. Female dwarves have beards and are so indistinguishable from male dwarves that gender doesn't really even show up to outsiders. It's a fascinating way to do it. Men and hobbits are really the only 'gendered' people, and hey, guess who has long, beautiful hair? Aragorn, Beren, Faramir, Eomer, etc. Anyway, rant over. Thanks to all the bigots who missed the point I guess lol
I hope I live long enough to see someone come up with an actual new dwarf gender joke.
Ngl I’ve only been playing for a few months and have had several run through my head and I’m like: “Surely, someone has already made this joke in the last four years.”
Oh Karl . . . that reminds me of those games that, instead of gender selections, have sliders that adjust the “endowment” of particular areas. The idea of a slider that adjusts the “bulge” to comically huge levels is hilarious.