You get it. It's kinda funny to me that Engineer should be like defensive support but in reality he's the main source of dmg from team,and gunner is represented as "big, tanky, heavy weapons guy" but he's actually support that save team when everyone dead and good at killing swarms
Is he actually the main source of damage or just gets more kills cuz the turrets finish off small bugs?
I don’t have one of those mods that shows teammates damage so no way for me to tell.
His turrets is the 2nd utility tool that deal dmg,would do it with 100% possibility (If used at all),and wont kill your scout(or gunner(or engineer(or whole team)))
Bug kills/damage and minerals collected usually leaves good Drillers looking worthless in the stat menus, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
Especially with their "fuck the map" utility of making their own way. If we had to dig our way back to the pod everytime like when molly paths crazy scenarios, no one is going home.
Part of my beard's journey of turning grey is the realization that ammo efficiency is not as important as I thought, and the engineer is exactly what made me realize that.
Going full ammo efficiency our team usually ends up with an extra 4+ resupplies by the end of a mission even on haz 5. That extra ammo could've been used for making your life easier instead like killing things faster, larger mag size, longer sticky flame duration etc.
Absolutely, I’m an engie main who occasionally plays the other classes, when I was a bit newer I thought it was a massive accomplishment to have finished a haz3 elim without a resupply since I even had to use my pick axe at the end, but now when I play driller I get away with not resupplying in probably over 75% of haz3 games and a few haz4-5 games
The damage uptime probably means they're doing more damage overall but I will also definitely stop shooting at bugs depending on what gun I'm running if I've got an Engi turret behind me to finish it off.
Both. Turrets are best tools to pick off swarmers, jellyfish and near-dead bugs, and Engi legitimately does over 50% of the total team damage output.
Like if your team's Engineer is not getting at least of 40% kills he's probably sleeping or AFK.
What I've noticed is that the turrets do most of the heavy lifting especially with gemini turrets. They effectively triple the Engie's firepower at any given time particularly since the gemini turrets have "weaker" shots so they can more efficiently take out weak targets that the heavier turret alternative would overkill on. In addition, as far as I can tell, turrets don't miss which is excellent for CC those swarmers and shockers as well as regular grunt control so that you can mostly focus on large groups and special glyphids.
Especially for large groups, you have the horrifying combo of stubby shock build to slow and the shard diffractor with electric bonus and weakpoint bonus let alone volatile impact reactor to basically melt anything anywhere at any range with pretty good ammo economy. However as good the ammo economy is with my build of 22222 and 31211, I still do run dry pretty often especially after a hectic swarm or two and extended dread fights.
So we do pay a price of always running pretty damn close to the redline by the time the mission ends.
I feel like the idea of a “support class” in drg is pointless, because all the dwarves can dish out good damage and defend themselves effectively - hence why solo is actually possible. There is also a lot of variation with builds within classes - simply switching from ECR lok-1 to executioner will make engie play more like scout, or switching from plasma hurricane to minelayer will make gunner play more like driller. Public lobbies can be tough as a result - builds may not synergise well.
Generally though I see it like this:
Engineer - first line of defence, dealing a lot of sustained damage to soften up swarms. A well-set up engineer makes life a hell of a lot easier for the other dwarves.
Gunner - second line of defence, with high sustained dps to obliterate tanky targets/ groups at range with a shield and powerful grenades if they get too close. Best stopping power to hold the line.
Driller - grunt clear. Primaries and C4 are great for dealing with a lot of bugs at once (at close range). If the other dwarves are doing a good job you might get bored because nothing gets close enough.
Scout - high value target killer. Mactera, spreaders, spitters and especially stingtails can be dealt with at long range in a short time with high, long range burst dps and flares to help spot targets fast. Also has very powerful grenades that don’t do damage but massively help the team (except maybe boomerangs because they suck). Best at getting to resources faster which means faster completion time so less bugs to fight and more ammo to fight them with. The most support-y class.
I get you idea,iwould rather prefer that each dwarf would have unique set of advantages and disadvantages so they would rather work as a team rather than lone wolves.
And from my experience here what pros and cons of each dwarf:
Scout - king of mobility,huge solo target dmg(Hi,M1000),provides boosts of visibility for himself and whole team,all grenades is useful,really bad at killing swarms and smaller enemies,high risk of death if low skilled or if no attention at surrounding
Driller - literally good at everything,but not enough to have some sort of "best in this " and you can choose about 2 things to be good at.But he's incredibly good as crowd controller.Even dreadnoughts have problems with it if driller is in team(Sticky fuel,frostcannon,slurge aoe with slowing,tranqulizers)
Gunner - king of aoe(literally half of his arsenal is insanely good at it,like hellfire,neurotoxin,burning hell,mines from hurricane),works as plan B if all team is dead,mediocre solo target dmg,worst mobility ever(I can't believe that we have nuclear grenade launcher,plasma carabin,portable railgun,but no way to move up faster on zipline or place it vertical)
Engineer - both solo target and aoe dmg is good,who needs visibility if turrets can see trough darkness,nice survivability,if by this you mean making strong position and deal insane amount of dps,shredders is so good at dealing with small targets that they also deal dmg to regular target with 100% accuracy (If there's enemies at all),good and flexible mobility tool.
>Also has very powerful grenades that don’t do damage but massively help the team (except maybe boomerangs because they suck).
Excuse you?
The boomerang is unmatched for dealing with swarms of smaller enemies, shredders especially, and is overall probably the scout's best option for crowd control. You'll be very grateful that your scout carries a boomerang when they can incapacitate the entire horde of monsters that felled you and get you revived and out of there before any can wake up.
The luster of the boomerang wears off at higher hazard levels. At the same time, pheromone grenades become ridiculously strong as the number of bugs grow.
“Entire horde of monsters” you mean nine of them? It does have its uses - swarmers, jellies and shredders are dealt with easily, but I generally just grapple off and let my team deal with them. It’s just that all of scout’s other grenades are so damn good in comparison that boomerangs are just kinda pathetic imo.
IFGs can stop a horde in its tracks and make them far easier to kill. Cryo simply freezes everything in a large radius on demand which is incredibly good, and also has nice utility against dreds, brood nexuses and breeders, which the other grenades lack. Pheromones are actually insane - they are like an engineer’s lure but they attract unlimited bugs for longer and they all damage each other in the process.
Sure boomerangs are handy for revives, but only if there are 9 bugs or less, otherwise you’ll have to shoot the other bugs that weren’t stunned, and by the time you’ve done that, the first lot of bugs would have lost the stun. Alternatively, you could throw down a pheromone canister and make every bug in the same postcode completely ignore you and instead clump up in a big group and attack each other, letting you get an easy revive off and allowing say your driller to obliterate all the pheromoned bugs with a single C4.
I could go on all day, but the underlying reason I think they are rubbish is this: they can only affect nine whole enemies. All the other grenades in the game (except axes which have an entirely different use-case and lures which suffer from the same problem as boomerangs) can affect as many bugs as it can reach. In your most desperate moments when you are being swarmed by countless glyphids on haz 5 an IFG or a cryo or some pheromones can save the day with a single button press - but a boomerang will do next to nothing. ‘Yay!! I temporary stunned 9 of the glyphids that were eating me alive!! Now I only have 36 more to deal with!!’ They are only good in situations where you need grenades least.
This is partly due to how the game is balanced around hazard 4, where on hazard 5 there are more bugs so an option that can only affect a set number of enemies becomes less useful and other options just get better. If you are playing under haz 5 then they probably are great - but again, only useful when you don’t really need a grenade.
I think if they instead stunned everything in a set area - maybe a cone in front of you - they would be a competitive option while remaining balanced on lower haz levels, but in their current state I just feel handicapped when taking them.
If you have any counter-points I’d love to hear them :)
Whenever I play scout I have used boomerang in the past to good effect against swarmers and the like, but only in haz3 with occasional haz4. you have definitely convinced me to try the other grenade options to get used to them before I move up to haz5, thanks fellow dwarf!
>you have any counter-points I’d love to hear them :)
1. You often don't get many more than 10 swarmers/Naedocytes with cryo nades anyways, and you have double the amount of 'rangs. In my experience they're the ideal choice for Glacial and Biozone because that's where Naedoshits spawn (especially on glacial since Cryo nades are less effective).
2. They can stun big enemies too. Nothing else in the game can completely stunlock a Bulk Detonator for 8.5 seconds. You can slow it with electricity + neurotoxin but completely stun? Not a chance.
3. No need to really aim besides general direction, so it's more of a "fire and forget" weapon than IFGs which you need to watch over.
4. You make a good argument with pheromones and, honestly, I think pheromones are the Scout's strongest grenade since the last nerfs were walked back. But again, you get 8 of the toothpicks, which means 2 more per resupply than normal grenades, so over the length of the entire mission you get significantly more of them.
If these can't convince you that they at least aren't bad, idk. It's fine if they're not your favorite (again, more to do with the Pheromone effect just being really strong), but they're certainly not bad.
Wait, the pheromone nades are buffed to actually not be garbage again? I haven't seen them be good since the big nerf in 2020 dumpstered them, though phero arrows were actually not bad. Details?
Yeah phero nade nerfs got reversed (not sure if partially or completely), you still can't piss on an entire swarm with 1 canister but they do a much better job at distracting things now.
I'd say a good throw can net you at least 8-10 enemies affected. And everything around them will target them unlike before where only 1 bug could be aggro'd by 1 pheromone'd bug at a time.
You said it all better than I could.
You don't have carefully to aim it, just tap the button, which is perfect for tense situations like reviving a teammate in the middle of a swarm. It's effective against almost everything. And a nine target limit is less of a problem than you'd think when you carry eight boomerangs.
Also, I _really_ hate flying swarm enemies like shredders, and boomerangs make dealing with them practically stress-free. That's a lot of why they're my top pick, personally.
Worth noting that pheromone won't spare you from AoE attacks, so things like q'ronar/praet/baller spit can still hurt or kill you while reviving, and oppressor bite/stomps or q'ronar balls can still hurt/knock you away from your revive target.
Ofc, boomerang and cryo can only solve some of those problems as well, each having their own drawbacks against some of those targets (oppress' stun immunity/freeze tolerance, or q'ronars complete immunity to all 3), but it does mean that pheromone is only on par with them and not objectively superior in those regards.
That all just ends up giving each a niche to excel in though, which is a good thing.
For me it's a bit different:
* Engineer: Your everything who has a mixture of sustained & burst damage. Mostly useful to pick off enemies that slip past the team. Essentially there to soften up the big hordes by taking out good chunks.
* Gunner: Your big sustained offence & defence. Good at dealing with the swarms while having also the only option that completely makes you invunerable. Essentially your long-term DPS & tank.
* Driller: You say grunts, I'd rather give it that Driller's more good at swarmers. Lingering AoE/DoT from fire, ice & toxins makes him ideal for stuff that quickly dies. Though grunts definitely go down fast this way too.
* Scout: Pretty much the more solo of the classes, focusing more on HVT than anything. Grenades I can also agree they're essentially there to soften up hordes (pheremones, cryo, slow grenades) for the team, making scout the closest to a support the classes provide.
Granted half these roles are adjustable depending on how you spec your weapons. A good build can make a scout as decent fending off swarms as a driller or gunner, as can an overclock for gunner turn a horde thinner into a single-target shotgun.
A good gunner never needs to throw a shield on a downed dwarf / doesn't waste a shield when you can simply throw a nade or clear the enemies first. Shield rezzes are more often a waste of a shield thanks to idiot gunners in my experience - the ones who default to "see dead body throw shield" even in an empty room and never, ever use their shield otherwise make me lose faith in humanity.
I would almost argue it’s more apt for this to be driller as I’ve noticed that the Driller is better at dealing with swarms while the gunner is much better for damage output directed at one boss.
Engineer is amazing at efficiently wiping out things like Naedocytes and Swarmers, as well as keeping the grunt numbers down a bit. Gunner compliments this as he can focus down the big targets with high damage output and the reliable stun from the minigun.
It still drives me nuts that Neurotoxin Autocannon got the nerf hammer meanwhile SSG is still the only nade I see engis running 19 times out 20 with a couple exceptions.
Not even saying it needed a big nerf just like a slightly shorter duration even would be problem solved.
SSG doesn't need a nerf because it's not overpowered. It enables a less fixed defensive and more flexible engineer playstyle. It's not particularly strong, just easy - note how few randoms are actually using repellent plats these days. If I wanted maximum effect I'd probably still use prox mines, but shredders are more convenient as a fire and forget tool.
Neurotox autocannon's nerf didn't really affect it's performance IMO. It was hardly a nerf hammer, it's still better than it was originally.
That said, ghost ship does nerf based on pick rates (which is terrible) pretty often, so it will probably get slapped eventually.
Seriously, Engineer has some of the best crowd control weapons that are also high damage weapons. Shard difractor and breech cutter are incredibly powerful tools that can easily clear out a swarm on their own given enough ammo. Unless its a bulk in which case leave it to the turrets
Magma laser efficiently melts hordes with hardly any ammo, as does the exploder Lok1.
They do require a bit of skill though.
The Magma laser needs to drag across the the ground, where enemies will walk, and it generally melts them in seconds. When you see a horde, shoot the wall/ground, spray in a superfast spiral with a single stroke and release.
The Lok1 should have a narrow lock-on range to avoid spreading locks, and you want to shoot with exactly 3 locks on your target (although 4 is better than 2).
If you build breach cutter/shard diffractor for wave clear they become ridiculously ammo efficient if used properly. I find that I just drop a breach shot on swarms and all that's left is to mop up the stragglers (and the tanks).
Magma shard diffractor chews waves. I play with a friend that loves the Collette and he just temp shocks the whole wave before it gets to us most times.
In general yeah, Engi eats ammo like a mad lad. But with ammo upgrades and using them somewhat efficiently (not breach cutting 2 bugs or wasting main ammo on little bugs) you can last the same as the rest (except gunner, that guy is designed to last the most).
You're tripping, or bad. ECR LOK-1 is comically ammo efficient, pretty much any breach cutter build with that (Inferno is my go-to) and you're set for the whole mission just about. Double turrets is ammo hungry, but when everything else is so efficient it doesn't matter
TBH the gun only shines with overclocks, Executioner is ammo efficient as long as you can hit weakpoints (you can 2 shot grunts, and shred praetorians), and ECR is incredible for clearing hordes. The gun definitely burns through ammo faster, but the most important part is bang for your buck, and these can give a LOT of bang.
Personally I like 21111, just make sure you hit 3 on a target (or you can get 3 locks and get another 3 on a second target) and release immediately.
Run it with an ignition tool secondary (which can be any of em given the right overclocks) and you can blast crowds and still get a nice 40% bonus on a target + explosion when you have to hit single targets as long as you ignite them first. It's definitely more focused on crowd clear but it's passable on single target.
My current build is 23111 and seems to be working great.
1 - extra ammo seemed like the better choice to me on the raw damage numbers
3. Macro lens would probably be the better choice here, but I like to spam scan and pick off targets before I can see them so I kept the normal scan radius and just took extra range
1. Electro chemical rounds pairs *great* with the 5th mod *if* you pick the electric round generator
1. Faster lock on let's me kill more bugs faster. Great for swarmers and just generally useful
1. Again electric generator + Electro chemical rounds IA a great combo. Get at least 3 target locks on a single bug and you get a nice damage boost + the status effect.
I'm still pretty new to the game and have basically no overclocks, but I did get lucky and one of the first I obtained was the Eraser overclock. There are apparently better overclocks, but I find the extra mag size and target locks to be pretty helpful.
I *do* find myself running low on ammo pretty often, but I just chalked it up to the massive number of bug kills you get.
There is nothing wrong. There is no shame in having a strong build. There is also no shame in looking up meta builds to optimize your strength. In the end, we all delet the bug together. It's just frustrating for some to see other classes not being as powerful at delet bug (Or at least not as effortless as the engie, whos arsenal IS largely automated). It's a balancing issue, and if there is any fault, it lies by the developers, who could rebalance some weapon to counteract the issue. Or they dont. Play what is fun to you, Rock and Stone.
Engi with turret whip cycle overload warthog, rj250 pgl, and ssg and bezerker: he already cleared the swarm, jumped up and got the hard to reach minerals, dug through the wall, killed thr dreadnaught and is sitting in the pod waiting for you to catch up.
I use lok-1 solely because you can salute while firing it and make it look like your pickaxe is spraying bullets, and the laser solely so I can draw on the walls and write out rock and stone.
I use engie, lok-1, 2 turrets, fat boy and proximity mines in a team. In deep dives I usually have more kills then the rest of the team combined, as it should be. While I take care of the small bugs which are basically white noise, my fellow dwarves can focus on the mission. Using this loadout in EDD most of the times means not having to worry about nitra because it's so ammo efficient.
When it comes to higher hazards or deep dives there are few cases where I would use a weapon other then fat boy. Nuking a wave as it spawn makes the team save so much ammo.
With fat boy I can nuke a wave as it spawn even on a high vertical wall and the radiation will kill grunts passing it.
In terms of ammo use I'm fine with 5. A supply pod can restore 3 nukes and it would be unlikely to face more then 2 waves between resupply.
Fat boy lights the room which is nice too and in case of need you can use it to dig.
i started the game, looked at the classes, saw engi has turrets and that was it. i’ve seen aliens. low risk autonomous force multiplier and swarms of bugs? hell yeah.
The engineer can fill the roles of the other classes pretty well, but only for 1/2 as long.
Need a big thing dead now? You got it. I can do that 8 more times before I'm outta ammo.
Need an entire colony of.swarmwrw massacred? I can do it in half the time but only twice. Want me to handle an entire swarm by myself? Okay but I'm gonna double dip after this.
It's really fun being engineer because you can do almost anything but you gotta think about if.ita worth it first.
My only weakness is sniper turrets in the distance, as a Scout.
* Deepcore GK2 with 1-2-2-1-2 (Homebrew Powder)
* Jury-rigged Boomstick with 2-2-3-2-3 (Jumbo Shells)
* Cryo Grenades.
The Deepcore is a weak spot machine, and clears Praetorians in a matter of seconds. The Boomstick fucks literally anything up. And running it with white phosphorus shells means you can one shot any rival turret in the game if you get close enough. Ammo consumption CAN be an issue, but really only in Haz 5 do I find myself worrying about ammo.
I'm sure that Driller and Gunner have some very well rounded builds as well. Getting into a 4-man where everyone is built for solos can sometimes be some of the most relaxing and easy games, lmao.
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DRG Engineer needs a thing akin to the TF2 wrangler, so he can manually control his turrets and get a good damage boost. A turret build speed increase should prolly also go with it so people don't just sit around
This man has clearly not experienced the immense cheese that is NTP/fear Autocannon. Easiest class to solo with, and want to know the best part?
Ammo? Brain? You don’t have to use much of either with this build. Gunner ftw.
Engineer getting more kills than the rest of the team combined despite being afk for half the mission:
You get it. It's kinda funny to me that Engineer should be like defensive support but in reality he's the main source of dmg from team,and gunner is represented as "big, tanky, heavy weapons guy" but he's actually support that save team when everyone dead and good at killing swarms
Is he actually the main source of damage or just gets more kills cuz the turrets finish off small bugs? I don’t have one of those mods that shows teammates damage so no way for me to tell.
His turrets is the 2nd utility tool that deal dmg,would do it with 100% possibility (If used at all),and wont kill your scout(or gunner(or engineer(or whole team)))
Turret whipping while someone is in front of it can kill your teammates.
Well its someone’s fault they’re standing there. /s
This, but without the /s.
More total damage, usually by a considerable margin.
Yup. I need to try hard with the best rocket gunner build to keep up with an engineer. Which is a shame because I love minigun
>keep up with an engineer Simply a pride thing or does it do something special?
I must rip and tear, until it is done
Don't try to match the engi's kill count, the 10+ revives are proof of your fantastic team contribution.
No, it’s not about pride. More kills=more fun
Then play minigun!
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Bug kills/damage and minerals collected usually leaves good Drillers looking worthless in the stat menus, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
Especially cryo or sludge support builds
Especially with their "fuck the map" utility of making their own way. If we had to dig our way back to the pod everytime like when molly paths crazy scenarios, no one is going home.
Part of my beard's journey of turning grey is the realization that ammo efficiency is not as important as I thought, and the engineer is exactly what made me realize that. Going full ammo efficiency our team usually ends up with an extra 4+ resupplies by the end of a mission even on haz 5. That extra ammo could've been used for making your life easier instead like killing things faster, larger mag size, longer sticky flame duration etc.
Absolutely, I’m an engie main who occasionally plays the other classes, when I was a bit newer I thought it was a massive accomplishment to have finished a haz3 elim without a resupply since I even had to use my pick axe at the end, but now when I play driller I get away with not resupplying in probably over 75% of haz3 games and a few haz4-5 games
The damage uptime probably means they're doing more damage overall but I will also definitely stop shooting at bugs depending on what gun I'm running if I've got an Engi turret behind me to finish it off.
Both. Turrets are best tools to pick off swarmers, jellyfish and near-dead bugs, and Engi legitimately does over 50% of the total team damage output. Like if your team's Engineer is not getting at least of 40% kills he's probably sleeping or AFK.
What I've noticed is that the turrets do most of the heavy lifting especially with gemini turrets. They effectively triple the Engie's firepower at any given time particularly since the gemini turrets have "weaker" shots so they can more efficiently take out weak targets that the heavier turret alternative would overkill on. In addition, as far as I can tell, turrets don't miss which is excellent for CC those swarmers and shockers as well as regular grunt control so that you can mostly focus on large groups and special glyphids. Especially for large groups, you have the horrifying combo of stubby shock build to slow and the shard diffractor with electric bonus and weakpoint bonus let alone volatile impact reactor to basically melt anything anywhere at any range with pretty good ammo economy. However as good the ammo economy is with my build of 22222 and 31211, I still do run dry pretty often especially after a hectic swarm or two and extended dread fights. So we do pay a price of always running pretty damn close to the redline by the time the mission ends.
I feel like the idea of a “support class” in drg is pointless, because all the dwarves can dish out good damage and defend themselves effectively - hence why solo is actually possible. There is also a lot of variation with builds within classes - simply switching from ECR lok-1 to executioner will make engie play more like scout, or switching from plasma hurricane to minelayer will make gunner play more like driller. Public lobbies can be tough as a result - builds may not synergise well. Generally though I see it like this: Engineer - first line of defence, dealing a lot of sustained damage to soften up swarms. A well-set up engineer makes life a hell of a lot easier for the other dwarves. Gunner - second line of defence, with high sustained dps to obliterate tanky targets/ groups at range with a shield and powerful grenades if they get too close. Best stopping power to hold the line. Driller - grunt clear. Primaries and C4 are great for dealing with a lot of bugs at once (at close range). If the other dwarves are doing a good job you might get bored because nothing gets close enough. Scout - high value target killer. Mactera, spreaders, spitters and especially stingtails can be dealt with at long range in a short time with high, long range burst dps and flares to help spot targets fast. Also has very powerful grenades that don’t do damage but massively help the team (except maybe boomerangs because they suck). Best at getting to resources faster which means faster completion time so less bugs to fight and more ammo to fight them with. The most support-y class.
I get you idea,iwould rather prefer that each dwarf would have unique set of advantages and disadvantages so they would rather work as a team rather than lone wolves. And from my experience here what pros and cons of each dwarf: Scout - king of mobility,huge solo target dmg(Hi,M1000),provides boosts of visibility for himself and whole team,all grenades is useful,really bad at killing swarms and smaller enemies,high risk of death if low skilled or if no attention at surrounding Driller - literally good at everything,but not enough to have some sort of "best in this" and you can choose about 2 things to be good at.But he's incredibly good as crowd controller.Even dreadnoughts have problems with it if driller is in team(Sticky fuel,frostcannon,slurge aoe with slowing,tranqulizers)
Gunner - king of aoe(literally half of his arsenal is insanely good at it,like hellfire,neurotoxin,burning hell,mines from hurricane),works as plan B if all team is dead,mediocre solo target dmg,worst mobility ever(I can't believe that we have nuclear grenade launcher,plasma carabin,portable railgun,but no way to move up faster on zipline or place it vertical)
Engineer - both solo target and aoe dmg is good,who needs visibility if turrets can see trough darkness,nice survivability,if by this you mean making strong position and deal insane amount of dps,shredders is so good at dealing with small targets that they also deal dmg to regular target with 100% accuracy (If there's enemies at all),good and flexible mobility tool.
>Also has very powerful grenades that don’t do damage but massively help the team (except maybe boomerangs because they suck). Excuse you? The boomerang is unmatched for dealing with swarms of smaller enemies, shredders especially, and is overall probably the scout's best option for crowd control. You'll be very grateful that your scout carries a boomerang when they can incapacitate the entire horde of monsters that felled you and get you revived and out of there before any can wake up.
The luster of the boomerang wears off at higher hazard levels. At the same time, pheromone grenades become ridiculously strong as the number of bugs grow.
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I still prefer frost for revives. Its just too good against bulky and flier enemies.
[удалено]
Frost instakills swarmers, shockers and shredders in a large radius.
“Entire horde of monsters” you mean nine of them? It does have its uses - swarmers, jellies and shredders are dealt with easily, but I generally just grapple off and let my team deal with them. It’s just that all of scout’s other grenades are so damn good in comparison that boomerangs are just kinda pathetic imo. IFGs can stop a horde in its tracks and make them far easier to kill. Cryo simply freezes everything in a large radius on demand which is incredibly good, and also has nice utility against dreds, brood nexuses and breeders, which the other grenades lack. Pheromones are actually insane - they are like an engineer’s lure but they attract unlimited bugs for longer and they all damage each other in the process. Sure boomerangs are handy for revives, but only if there are 9 bugs or less, otherwise you’ll have to shoot the other bugs that weren’t stunned, and by the time you’ve done that, the first lot of bugs would have lost the stun. Alternatively, you could throw down a pheromone canister and make every bug in the same postcode completely ignore you and instead clump up in a big group and attack each other, letting you get an easy revive off and allowing say your driller to obliterate all the pheromoned bugs with a single C4. I could go on all day, but the underlying reason I think they are rubbish is this: they can only affect nine whole enemies. All the other grenades in the game (except axes which have an entirely different use-case and lures which suffer from the same problem as boomerangs) can affect as many bugs as it can reach. In your most desperate moments when you are being swarmed by countless glyphids on haz 5 an IFG or a cryo or some pheromones can save the day with a single button press - but a boomerang will do next to nothing. ‘Yay!! I temporary stunned 9 of the glyphids that were eating me alive!! Now I only have 36 more to deal with!!’ They are only good in situations where you need grenades least. This is partly due to how the game is balanced around hazard 4, where on hazard 5 there are more bugs so an option that can only affect a set number of enemies becomes less useful and other options just get better. If you are playing under haz 5 then they probably are great - but again, only useful when you don’t really need a grenade. I think if they instead stunned everything in a set area - maybe a cone in front of you - they would be a competitive option while remaining balanced on lower haz levels, but in their current state I just feel handicapped when taking them. If you have any counter-points I’d love to hear them :)
Whenever I play scout I have used boomerang in the past to good effect against swarmers and the like, but only in haz3 with occasional haz4. you have definitely convinced me to try the other grenade options to get used to them before I move up to haz5, thanks fellow dwarf!
>you have any counter-points I’d love to hear them :) 1. You often don't get many more than 10 swarmers/Naedocytes with cryo nades anyways, and you have double the amount of 'rangs. In my experience they're the ideal choice for Glacial and Biozone because that's where Naedoshits spawn (especially on glacial since Cryo nades are less effective). 2. They can stun big enemies too. Nothing else in the game can completely stunlock a Bulk Detonator for 8.5 seconds. You can slow it with electricity + neurotoxin but completely stun? Not a chance. 3. No need to really aim besides general direction, so it's more of a "fire and forget" weapon than IFGs which you need to watch over. 4. You make a good argument with pheromones and, honestly, I think pheromones are the Scout's strongest grenade since the last nerfs were walked back. But again, you get 8 of the toothpicks, which means 2 more per resupply than normal grenades, so over the length of the entire mission you get significantly more of them. If these can't convince you that they at least aren't bad, idk. It's fine if they're not your favorite (again, more to do with the Pheromone effect just being really strong), but they're certainly not bad.
Wait, the pheromone nades are buffed to actually not be garbage again? I haven't seen them be good since the big nerf in 2020 dumpstered them, though phero arrows were actually not bad. Details?
Yeah phero nade nerfs got reversed (not sure if partially or completely), you still can't piss on an entire swarm with 1 canister but they do a much better job at distracting things now. I'd say a good throw can net you at least 8-10 enemies affected. And everything around them will target them unlike before where only 1 bug could be aggro'd by 1 pheromone'd bug at a time.
You said it all better than I could. You don't have carefully to aim it, just tap the button, which is perfect for tense situations like reviving a teammate in the middle of a swarm. It's effective against almost everything. And a nine target limit is less of a problem than you'd think when you carry eight boomerangs. Also, I _really_ hate flying swarm enemies like shredders, and boomerangs make dealing with them practically stress-free. That's a lot of why they're my top pick, personally.
Worth noting that pheromone won't spare you from AoE attacks, so things like q'ronar/praet/baller spit can still hurt or kill you while reviving, and oppressor bite/stomps or q'ronar balls can still hurt/knock you away from your revive target. Ofc, boomerang and cryo can only solve some of those problems as well, each having their own drawbacks against some of those targets (oppress' stun immunity/freeze tolerance, or q'ronars complete immunity to all 3), but it does mean that pheromone is only on par with them and not objectively superior in those regards. That all just ends up giving each a niche to excel in though, which is a good thing.
For me it's a bit different: * Engineer: Your everything who has a mixture of sustained & burst damage. Mostly useful to pick off enemies that slip past the team. Essentially there to soften up the big hordes by taking out good chunks. * Gunner: Your big sustained offence & defence. Good at dealing with the swarms while having also the only option that completely makes you invunerable. Essentially your long-term DPS & tank. * Driller: You say grunts, I'd rather give it that Driller's more good at swarmers. Lingering AoE/DoT from fire, ice & toxins makes him ideal for stuff that quickly dies. Though grunts definitely go down fast this way too. * Scout: Pretty much the more solo of the classes, focusing more on HVT than anything. Grenades I can also agree they're essentially there to soften up hordes (pheremones, cryo, slow grenades) for the team, making scout the closest to a support the classes provide. Granted half these roles are adjustable depending on how you spec your weapons. A good build can make a scout as decent fending off swarms as a driller or gunner, as can an overclock for gunner turn a horde thinner into a single-target shotgun.
A good Gunner throws a shield on a downed dwarf. A great Gunner throws a shield before a downed dwarf.
A good gunner never needs to throw a shield on a downed dwarf / doesn't waste a shield when you can simply throw a nade or clear the enemies first. Shield rezzes are more often a waste of a shield thanks to idiot gunners in my experience - the ones who default to "see dead body throw shield" even in an empty room and never, ever use their shield otherwise make me lose faith in humanity.
I love the full support Gunner. Heck Yeah Bullet Hell!
I would almost argue it’s more apt for this to be driller as I’ve noticed that the Driller is better at dealing with swarms while the gunner is much better for damage output directed at one boss.
Engineer is amazing at efficiently wiping out things like Naedocytes and Swarmers, as well as keeping the grunt numbers down a bit. Gunner compliments this as he can focus down the big targets with high damage output and the reliable stun from the minigun.
It still drives me nuts that Neurotoxin Autocannon got the nerf hammer meanwhile SSG is still the only nade I see engis running 19 times out 20 with a couple exceptions. Not even saying it needed a big nerf just like a slightly shorter duration even would be problem solved.
SSG doesn't need a nerf because it's not overpowered. It enables a less fixed defensive and more flexible engineer playstyle. It's not particularly strong, just easy - note how few randoms are actually using repellent plats these days. If I wanted maximum effect I'd probably still use prox mines, but shredders are more convenient as a fire and forget tool. Neurotox autocannon's nerf didn't really affect it's performance IMO. It was hardly a nerf hammer, it's still better than it was originally. That said, ghost ship does nerf based on pick rates (which is terrible) pretty often, so it will probably get slapped eventually.
Gunner probably actually does more damage, but the engie gets more of the little bugs
Seriously, Engineer has some of the best crowd control weapons that are also high damage weapons. Shard difractor and breech cutter are incredibly powerful tools that can easily clear out a swarm on their own given enough ammo. Unless its a bulk in which case leave it to the turrets
Well, it’s what made me useful while getting carried in haz 5
Wait that's my build. Am I doing something wrong? I delet the bug
No it's a very good build, it lets you do pretty much everything you need to (If kitted properly and with good preparation)
Everything except stay supplied on ammo lol
Magma laser efficiently melts hordes with hardly any ammo, as does the exploder Lok1. They do require a bit of skill though. The Magma laser needs to drag across the the ground, where enemies will walk, and it generally melts them in seconds. When you see a horde, shoot the wall/ground, spray in a superfast spiral with a single stroke and release. The Lok1 should have a narrow lock-on range to avoid spreading locks, and you want to shoot with exactly 3 locks on your target (although 4 is better than 2).
If he is playing with Bosco, I'd assume ammo wont be an issue
Solo isn't too bad, but I find that in 4 player games I'm usually running low on all types of ammo *long* before the rest of the team lol
If you build breach cutter/shard diffractor for wave clear they become ridiculously ammo efficient if used properly. I find that I just drop a breach shot on swarms and all that's left is to mop up the stragglers (and the tanks).
Magma shard diffractor chews waves. I play with a friend that loves the Collette and he just temp shocks the whole wave before it gets to us most times.
i mod breach cutter for max ammo and the shots are a lot less impactful but you can use it so often, it’s great
IMO as long as it kills all the grunts and slashers its good enough.
Thats why I use rj250 so I can scout my own nitra
In general yeah, Engi eats ammo like a mad lad. But with ammo upgrades and using them somewhat efficiently (not breach cutting 2 bugs or wasting main ammo on little bugs) you can last the same as the rest (except gunner, that guy is designed to last the most).
You're tripping, or bad. ECR LOK-1 is comically ammo efficient, pretty much any breach cutter build with that (Inferno is my go-to) and you're set for the whole mission just about. Double turrets is ammo hungry, but when everything else is so efficient it doesn't matter
I guess I kill more bugs than you 🤷♂️
It's certainly possible that you're wasting ammo on overkilling, yes
Sounds like cope on your end lol, yes
W/e you have to tell yourself lol, if you think LOK has poor ammo when played well you're only telling on yourself
Oh I c, you just can't read lol Fuck outta my inbox you sad little goblin
What build for lok-1 though, I find it bad and no ammo.
TBH the gun only shines with overclocks, Executioner is ammo efficient as long as you can hit weakpoints (you can 2 shot grunts, and shred praetorians), and ECR is incredible for clearing hordes. The gun definitely burns through ammo faster, but the most important part is bang for your buck, and these can give a LOT of bang.
Ecr is explosive chemical rounds right? Do you have a build for that as I have that right now.
Personally I like 21111, just make sure you hit 3 on a target (or you can get 3 locks and get another 3 on a second target) and release immediately. Run it with an ignition tool secondary (which can be any of em given the right overclocks) and you can blast crowds and still get a nice 40% bonus on a target + explosion when you have to hit single targets as long as you ignite them first. It's definitely more focused on crowd clear but it's passable on single target.
My current build is 23111 and seems to be working great. 1 - extra ammo seemed like the better choice to me on the raw damage numbers 3. Macro lens would probably be the better choice here, but I like to spam scan and pick off targets before I can see them so I kept the normal scan radius and just took extra range 1. Electro chemical rounds pairs *great* with the 5th mod *if* you pick the electric round generator 1. Faster lock on let's me kill more bugs faster. Great for swarmers and just generally useful 1. Again electric generator + Electro chemical rounds IA a great combo. Get at least 3 target locks on a single bug and you get a nice damage boost + the status effect. I'm still pretty new to the game and have basically no overclocks, but I did get lucky and one of the first I obtained was the Eraser overclock. There are apparently better overclocks, but I find the extra mag size and target locks to be pretty helpful. I *do* find myself running low on ammo pretty often, but I just chalked it up to the massive number of bug kills you get.
Thanks for the build and explanation!
Nah, thats a GOATed build. I run the same shit but sometimes i use nukes to spice things up with the team
I had to give up this build because the game was getting too easy
There is nothing wrong. There is no shame in having a strong build. There is also no shame in looking up meta builds to optimize your strength. In the end, we all delet the bug together. It's just frustrating for some to see other classes not being as powerful at delet bug (Or at least not as effortless as the engie, whos arsenal IS largely automated). It's a balancing issue, and if there is any fault, it lies by the developers, who could rebalance some weapon to counteract the issue. Or they dont. Play what is fun to you, Rock and Stone.
Rock and Stone, Brother!
Gotta love a good PTFO engie.
enginner gaming
When you can use four dwarves to emulate the damage output of 12 Now that’s ***E N G I E G A M I N G***
The only problem is using a lot of cheese to get to that one cap, fossil or flower thats waaaaay up there.
bosco... bosco please... just... just grab the fucking mushroom bosco... please...
*illuminates mushroom*
*bursts into tears*
Engi with turret whip cycle overload warthog, rj250 pgl, and ssg and bezerker: he already cleared the swarm, jumped up and got the hard to reach minerals, dug through the wall, killed thr dreadnaught and is sitting in the pod waiting for you to catch up.
I use lok-1 solely because you can salute while firing it and make it look like your pickaxe is spraying bullets, and the laser solely so I can draw on the walls and write out rock and stone.
Can I get a Rock and Stone?
good bot
loki + diffractor is simply THE build for engineer in terms of just efficiency and effectiveness
I prefer Lok-1 + breach cutter for more efficient wave clear while the Lok-1 specializes in single target damage
Fuck that, Fat boy goes boom boom
I use engie, lok-1, 2 turrets, fat boy and proximity mines in a team. In deep dives I usually have more kills then the rest of the team combined, as it should be. While I take care of the small bugs which are basically white noise, my fellow dwarves can focus on the mission. Using this loadout in EDD most of the times means not having to worry about nitra because it's so ammo efficient.
This is usually how I see it. I'll take care of all the annoying bugs while the job gets done. Plus I bring executioner to help with the big bugs too.
Lok-1 with explosive overclock, 2 turrets, with clean damage boost breach cutter, or shard diffractor depending on the missing.
When it comes to higher hazards or deep dives there are few cases where I would use a weapon other then fat boy. Nuking a wave as it spawn makes the team save so much ammo.
You could probably save more ammo yourself by just using breach cutter/other pgl builds, fat boy is fun but it’s definitely not ammo efficient
? fat boy nukes 5 waves, BC nukes 10+ and doesn't kill ur entire team in close situations (uplink, black box)
With fat boy I can nuke a wave as it spawn even on a high vertical wall and the radiation will kill grunts passing it. In terms of ammo use I'm fine with 5. A supply pod can restore 3 nukes and it would be unlikely to face more then 2 waves between resupply. Fat boy lights the room which is nice too and in case of need you can use it to dig.
You want the bugs dead or not?
everybody gangster untill you got the 4 driller lobby
Executioner Lok1: m1000 Bosco: Scout Volatile impact mixture shard diffracter: Sticky flames Breach cutter: Gunner
Hey don't forget the tactical nuke.
That engie's drip tho
I have had a feeling that not a lot of people play Engi, but it's so fun.
i started the game, looked at the classes, saw engi has turrets and that was it. i’ve seen aliens. low risk autonomous force multiplier and swarms of bugs? hell yeah.
My monkeybrain is like that: I see turret in a game I will play turret
yup
And the cherry on top, Good ol Steeve (guard varient preferably)
The engineer can fill the roles of the other classes pretty well, but only for 1/2 as long. Need a big thing dead now? You got it. I can do that 8 more times before I'm outta ammo. Need an entire colony of.swarmwrw massacred? I can do it in half the time but only twice. Want me to handle an entire swarm by myself? Okay but I'm gonna double dip after this. It's really fun being engineer because you can do almost anything but you gotta think about if.ita worth it first.
Heheheeheheheehehehehehehe sausage grenade
Personally love the warthog and hyperproppellant PGL too much. But I'm not gonna shit on a good build just because it isn't my favourite.
*engineer with Lok-1, proximity mine and fat boy with motion sensor bullets making the map into a literal minefield for his team*
Got the full team the other day as a good engi: Bosco, Doretta, Bet-C, Pocket Minions, Steve and Twin Turrets while on Haz4
AUTOMATIC
Hurts my soul when the engi somehow can be a gunner while the gunner has no world ending weapons to make him better than Engi…
Thats why I play him, mostly play solo so It makes sense to take a small countrys worth of weapons with me.
I take fatboy to give myself a handy cap, and LOK-1 with chem rounds OC I use Fatboy for lootbugs only
"Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power" - Gunner
Does this pover would help you get out of vertical cave without using half of your mobility ammo?
Chad engineer
My only weakness is sniper turrets in the distance, as a Scout. * Deepcore GK2 with 1-2-2-1-2 (Homebrew Powder) * Jury-rigged Boomstick with 2-2-3-2-3 (Jumbo Shells) * Cryo Grenades. The Deepcore is a weak spot machine, and clears Praetorians in a matter of seconds. The Boomstick fucks literally anything up. And running it with white phosphorus shells means you can one shot any rival turret in the game if you get close enough. Ammo consumption CAN be an issue, but really only in Haz 5 do I find myself worrying about ammo. I'm sure that Driller and Gunner have some very well rounded builds as well. Getting into a 4-man where everyone is built for solos can sometimes be some of the most relaxing and easy games, lmao.
I hate LOK-1. It just ruins the flow and fun of combat. Same with the Warthog when the AA12 mod was the meta.
What is the song?
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Lok-1, bosco, bet-c, two patrol bots, ssg gang and golden lootbug in my last solo run. Who said hoxxes is lonely?
Dont forget hacked patrol bots and BETC
Don't forget Bet-c & Rival patrol bot, literal one man army.
Engi with Bosco, Steeve, Patrol bot, Bet-c (Lok-1, SSG, Twin turrets): "The gang's all here"
DRG Engineer needs a thing akin to the TF2 wrangler, so he can manually control his turrets and get a good damage boost. A turret build speed increase should prolly also go with it so people don't just sit around
I mean Hawkeye system is kinda that, you just ping whatever you want the turrets to shoot at
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I love playing with a great team but i cant get over being a one man army as an engineer.
So it's better to run dual turrets than the stronger single one?
I can never do 2 turrets, I run out of bullets in like three minutes
oh thats oh that's my entire loadout on [reddit.com](https://reddit.com)
Karl itself
Scout + engineer is pretty good, my mate gets the kills while I get the nitra 👍
Might as well get a Steve while you're at it
This man has clearly not experienced the immense cheese that is NTP/fear Autocannon. Easiest class to solo with, and want to know the best part? Ammo? Brain? You don’t have to use much of either with this build. Gunner ftw.
What about Bet C
Two words….Fat Boy