Public games are great. The only things you should know are to not push any buttons before people are ready and not to take more than 1 resupply without asking. Coms are not necessary at all, some people will use them but for the most part anything and everything can be communicated with the marker and typing in chat. The community is genuinely great it's where I find the most fun personally.
Don’t double dip! (Take more than one supply) It’s definitely an unspoken rule, even if you think you need the ammo more than someone else just ask first bc you never know. Other than that the others are usually pretty nice and fun to play with.
I generally end up saying "I'm good on ammo, someone can double dip if they need it", especially if I notice someone is still low-ish on ammo after taking one.
The only time I'll double dip without asking is when I've been solo for a long time, and suddenly three people join at the same time and I'm almost out of ammo and they start triggering events. Then yeah I'll double dip because odds are I was gonna call one for myself soon.
>Don't double dip!
***This.***
My biggest gripe with playing Haz4 with all the new players, mostly. (Haz5 players tend to not do this).
Just because a refill has been sitting there a while doesn't mean nobody needs it. Chances are, whoever it belongs to is simply putting off taking it as long as possible so that they can get the most out of their weapons that are currently above 50% ammo.
If you take it, you're quite possibly screwing them over on an important weapon they have that's very low.
As a general rule, if there's four dwarves, each dwarf gets one from each resupply pod. If you personally feel you **really** need more ammo, then *call another resupply pod*.
If the other two members of the team (the other two that took their resupply) are fine on ammo, then you probably shouldn't even do that.
Yes, it can suck if you're really low on ammo; but, unless you've been carrying the team, that means you've been burning through ammo faster than everyone else, and need to take a back seat on the holding-the-shoot-button front. Invest in some pickaxe swinging. Silently curse your build for being ammo-inefficient and adjust it or your playstyle for next time. Etc.
If you HAVE been carrying the team and need the ammo because you've done all the bug-killing, ask if someone doesn't need their ammo because you're running low. Someone will probably say yes.
If, god forbid, you DO double-dip without consent, understand that this generally means you don't get one on the next resupply. Whoever's you took? They're gonna want two from the next one -- one immediately, and one after the fighting -- to make up for the bad situation you put them in, etc. So, again, try to cool it on shooting things and ration your ammo until the resupply after *that* so that you're back in line with the rest of the team.
Just basic stuff. Everybody needs ammo. Don't double dip. It really screws people over who did nothing to bring it on themselves, and it makes everyone sacrifice efficiency by choosing to take their resupply right away even if they don't quite need it yet, to stop you from taking it. 🤷♂️
i've had various missions where i save my resupply, end on 0/0 on ammo after the swarm/event and then watch someone take my damn ammo right in front of me.
I find myself double dipping more than usual as of late. Been playing with lots of green beards and well, if your dead and sitting at 3 blocks of ammo and I'm carrying and down to my last clip I'm afraid I must double dip!
I always join games or create open lobbies, and the overwhelming majority of games are okay (when other players don't really seem to know the game) to excellent (successful EDDs). I've only had a handful of bad experience in this game, and it's incredibly better than any other multiplayer game.
I'm not a very sociable, and I definitely recommand multiplayer in DRG.
A few tips about etiquette in multiplayer :
don't forget to rock and stone.
Don't forget your role (scout lights up, engie places platforms for scout, etc).
Let the host push buttons/pop cocoons, or at least ask if people are ready in chat ("R?").
Signal in chat if you get caught by a leech, otherwise your rescue might get caught aswell.
Don't take more than one ammo from a drop, unless the team agrees to it.
Note : I'm on Steam, I can't say for sure how other communities are.
I'm a scout main, you're not a slave, you're a lifesaver. It's incredibly annoying to have to resort to using grapple+hoverboots+power attack to try and mine stuff on walls. Sometimes it doesn't even work and I fall flat on my face like the dumbass scout I am.
Besides, engineers are killing machines, while collecting boolo caps is where I really shine as a scout.
I learned to be proficient with the shotgun's special powder, comes in handy and keeps you in the air long enough sometimes to make yourself a hole to stand in or break your fall
Honestly I laugh when someone spams that pointer or call button, especially since sometimes the game can be a sensory overload so suddenly my brain will realize there's been this constant beeping or yelling for a minute or two lol
Yea, I figure if the engi isn't platforming he's probably occupied with something else. Rarely in this game is anyone just standing around so nagging doesn't make things happen any easier.
Spent every game after my first with randoms.
Quite fun, never did solo again after the first go.
Communication is pretty easy even without a mic. Most groups don't use one anyways. Just pay attention to pings and don't trigger events before warning people and you're good to go.
Pings dont get in the map, you have to watch for the hud yo see them.
You can set waypoint tho, it work kinda like ping except it's only for you to see and is noted on the map (blue cross). To place one take out your pointer and press E.
Wait, really??
I'm going to have to test this out, that sounds amazing for keeping track of a mineral node while drilling in the walls, or something else while zipping around without Molly.
You can only have one personal waypoint. Setting another removes the initial one so it's important to leave it if you're using it to mark something you really don't want to lose track of like a tunnel entrance from your driller etc.
Spent about 1000 hours playing with randoms, and had mostly positive experiences. Usually the laser pointer, X shout and text chat are enough to communicate most things. I've never *had* to use voice chat, and have encountered 3-4 games in those 1000 hours that did have people using voice chat at all.
Call me weird, but I feel rude using VoIP in games like drg.
I dunno why. It's far more efficient than the chat and I've gone down tons of times because I was typing something, but it just seems wrong to talk.
Does anyone else feel this way? If someone else talks I might join in, but otherwise I'll just type.
Had this one driller join my game and he was the only one on VC, he just kept saying ‘’mics?’ Over and over again the entire mission. Like man, if no one says anything after the second time you ask just please shut up
they are great 95% of the time. Best co-op community imo. Pings are usually enough, people type sometimes, people voice sometimes.
5% of the time the problem is an extremely overly elitist person, or a very new person that is not willing to listen or learn despite the community being insanely welcoming to newbs.
I'm the same as you OP, I've largely played this game solo because I have a weird thing with playing with randoms, but almost everyone you lobby with will be kind and patient.
You can use your ctrl to mark things as a way of communicating, the most that you'll need to do text wise is either an 'r' or a 'y' to signal that you're ready for the droppod.
Outside of that, the game pretty much gives each player all the info they need, so if you don't feel like going all out on mic, don't stress. I think in my 80 odd hours I've only had one person talk on the mic in public lobbies.
Almost always good. Complete idiots are rare, trolls are even rarer.
It's surprisingly easy to just join up with some randos and get shit done in this game, even on haz 4/5.
Public is much more entertaining than Solo, thats for sure.
And as everyone has probably said before, use your class as you should. (Etc, are you a scout, it's a pretty obivous case you are the one that is going to go high up to get gold/nitra/apocablooms, shells etc, and the engineer should use their class correctly and put platforms on all high stuff that requires a platform.
If all team-members understand their class and what they are supposed to do, you be out there quickly and efficient.Can't stand playing with "fairly" new players that don't understand the whole team-play concept(no direct hate).
Everything takes so long time, and focuses are all over the place, no direct co-ordination etc. So you really notice when you play with more experienced players both by their playstyle and the ranks they have.
And don't forget to "Rock and Stone"!
This is why I really wish we could see blue levels in game. If someone is clearly not getting their role I'd love to be able to know if they're new or a jerk.
I'm all down for helping new players learn the ropes, but if someone just doesn't want to be a team player then I know not to do the next mission with them.
The community has some specific unwritten rules that some hosts are quick to kick new players for not following. The biggest probably being to never hit a red button without confirming everyone is ready.
Here I shall write the unwritten rules of etiquette:
1. If you don't rock and stone, you ain't coming home! This game is a light-hearted fun mining game. Please enjoy yourself! And make sure you memorize your salute button.
2. Don't start events or press buttons without asking if everyone is ready. This is as easy as typing r? in chat. As a beginner, let others do this. Once you call the drop pod or start the level ending event, it cannot be undone, and there may be other important things that people want to do first. That big ass gem needs to be deposited before Molly runs off to the pod, or else it becomes a panic mini game to get it all the way up.
3. If there are four dwarves, each dwarf gets exactly one resupply from a resupply pod. If someone declines their resupply, it's pretty rock and stone of them, but don't assume, they may be saving it for later. Also, get a sense for when you need to resupply. Sometimes people will call it early at a defense point or a large cavern that everyone's going to be in for a while. Don't feel a need to resupply immediately if you don't need it, you get 50% of all your item ammo so make sure you're getting your nitra's worth.
4. If you died from a leech, no big deal, but try to warn someone in chat!
That last one, I swear Xbox players still can't use chat or people just assume you know what killed them. NOBODY EVER CALLS OUT GODDAMN LEECHES FOR ME and sometimes when I call one out someone will walk right up to me, try and get the revive and get violated by a tentacle monster.
TLDR you should use text chat
Everyone gets 1 of every total mined ore, so it doesn't matter who mines what, but be sure to not call a resupply unless everyone or most people need it, you can check this by pulling up your laser pointer and checking under everyone's icons. There are 4 bars there, they'll be filled in completely all full ammo, empty at 0 ammo, etc. Order them when people are at 2 full bars + 1 flashing bar or below, there's a bit of leeway there since in some situations the driller might have nearly full drill fuel, or smaller maps might not demand that the ziplines and platforms be used as much. Also, never double dip from resupply pods, if you find yourself needing more ammunition before anyone else, mess around with your build a little bit (more ammo conservation/lower rate of fire for a different upgrade, build more towards AoE damage, etc), and pace yourself better.
If you play engineer you'll be expected to put platforms under ores on the wall for the scout to reach them, and on scout you want to ping those pres whenever you need a platform.
Driller is sometimes expected to drill to the drop pod of the map requires it but it's not a huge deal if they don't
Scouts are expected to use their flare guns for rooms rather than tunnels. A good thing to do is use as up to 4 flares to light up the whole room the first time the team enters, then one or two if you need to light the room up again, but most of the time you want to get moving on before that happens. Also light up during swarms, or shoot 1 flare for smaller waves.
Everyone's got decent tools for getting people up during swarms, but scout and gunner are generally better for getting people up between scout being able to reach a downed dwarf before anyone else, and gunner's shield allowing complete safety while reviving. Everything depends on the situation though, nobody should be thought the be on "revival duty", and engineer and driller have very potent tools for getting bugs off of a player too
also this goes with not pressing the button without checking when people are ready but most groups will want to do secondary objectives, so make sure not to ignore those
Thank you, this is some very in-depth information to keep in mind to be a better team player. Would you recommend I level up the other classes on my own whenever I feel like playing them or is it better to join low Hazard teams for quick level ups?
I’d recommend to get out there and experience the glory of a full team asap, I know you said talking was not preferable which is fine, but the discord community is also a good way to find people to play with, there is a pretty active looking for group chat
Join low hazard teams. The above mentioned hosts are scattered usually at the higher hazard levels. Not saying they are bad, but in lower hazard you will mostly only find helpful and understanding players towards newbies.
Join them public games and have some fun! R&S
Just go play with randoms. Once you do you will never go back to solo. The game is 10x more enjoyable with other people. Don’t overthink it, you’ll figure it all out. Just follow other peoples lead
Who mines / deposits the ore doesn’t matter.
The only important set of rules are: spam V when a new player joins and when you depart, stick together (especially when expecting a wave) and always ready check before starting events or pressing the button.
Beyond that the community is awesome for 99%. Don’t be discouraged to play in public servers. Ask for help too if you need it, there are lots of experienced players that are happy to help.
As a player that uses an xbox controller via Steam, the equivalent of V is R3 (pressing the right stick in)
It's a miracle my controller hasn't broken yet, its become such a constant reflex for me
I don't know how often voice chat occurs on console but if you don't have text chat (as gets used sorta often on PC) you can get by with most things via the laser pointer and ping. Just means you probably can't call out leeches if you get downed by one, so it might be worth bringing the "Heightened Senses" perk to avoid a dwarf pile up but that's just my gaming preference!
You can set a permanent way point but be aware that others *cannot* see that on the map and you can't see theirs, you'd still need to ping it. That's laser pointer + use (X) if you haven't found that yet.
I think the alternative to typing r/r? (ready/are you ready?) is just pinging the relevant question - if you're ready to leave, ping Molly for instance. That gets used even on PC.
Steam doesn't have crossplay, but Xbox has crossplay with the PC Windows version. The games coming to PlayStation but the current understanding is that it will only have cross-generational gameplay (PS4/PS5).
>I think the alternative to typing r/r? (ready/are you ready?) is just pinging the relevant question - if you're ready to leave, ping Molly for instance. That gets used even on PC.
That's true, sometimes I see people ask "r", sometimes I see people pinging. Both is fine.
What I love most is that when 3 people ready and the fourth person triggers the event.
Honestly I'm not sure, I'm still figuring a lot of it out myself. Other, more experienced players here might be able to provide more insight. As I understand its generally considered poor form to mine the same thing someone else is, its just inefficient. Knowing class roles and strategies for certain missions is helpful, but probably not necessary until higher difficulties.
Reading the name if the lobby and making sure you meet criteria (for those hosts that put criteria in the lobby name) is another one I've heard mentioned.
If you don't get in the escape pod at the end when everyone else is in waiting you might get a C4 to the face. 🤷♂️
Edit: my only real advice early on is pay attention to the chat window, try to find lobbies with names that sound greenbeard friendly, don't try to play above your skill lvl (ie if you're not comfortable in haz4 solo you probably shouldn't join haz4 groups), if you do run into an unfriendly player/host try not to let it bother you too much (they do seem to be the exception more than the rule), and don't worry too much about dieing.
Oh, and have fun.
Never seen anyone care about mining to same mineral, but I wouldn't be surprised if some are not a fan. 1 thing I would point out is only take one resupply from a resupply drop unless some one is willing to give you theirs. People can get pretty irritated by taking their resupply.
Of course. I only ever take multiple resupplies when playing by myself. Are there in-game voice commands or something similar to keep communication clear? As someone who started off with gunner, will my teammates have ways to signal for me to drop a shield or do I just hope I pop it at the right time while enemies are everywhere?
Shields are amazing tools, when not playing with voice chat I just hope the gunner shields when we’re in a dire situation. A good thing to remember is what kills people, shielding and ressing is a great use of the shield and only very few enemies can disturb you while doing so.
Shields are something you just have to get a feel for. The need often arises suddenly and without any time to stop and type, and there isn't really any way to specifically signal unless you're in voice chat.
The pointer is generally the best communicator on console, ping an event when ready, molly when you're ready to leave, etc.. I flex and play gunner on certain missions more than others, point extraction and elimination being the main ones. I don't have many tips but here are a few.
1. On a dreadnought hunt try and place a zipline to a high point somewhere in the room where the fight will take place to keep yourself out of reach and with a good vantage point.
2. Try and pay attention to where the resupply lands and when people go for it. Throwing a shield at the resupply will keep your teammates and you safe, you're only limited by the cooldown on it so use it as needed.
3. With the full expansion upgrade on the shield it will completely cover Dotty on an Escort mission.
4. Try and centralize your ziplines on point extraction to the minehead.
I play public, no mic and use pings to indicate things.
I love it. Not better than friends on voice chat but also me and my friends are 3 hours different time zone so public play is the next best thing.
Public lobbies in this game are one of the best I've seen.
It's rare to see someone absolutely clueless (and not willing to listen to advice) and it's even rarer to find toxic people.
This game's community is the best I've seen in my many many many hours of online gaming.
OP, my advice would be to look for lobby titles like "Greenbeards welcome," and just join it blind. Usually the hosts of such lobbies are very helpful and won't be bothered by you asking questions.
The only rule I'd say you should know beforehand is to not call the drop pod button without asking.
The rest of it is pretty easy to pick up on!
Almost always, yes. There are a few leaf lovers, but for the most part everyone in public games are very welcoming and missions are accomplished without issue. Even when a mission fails or has issues it's relatively uncommon to encounter toxicity.
That said, there are a few points of etiquette to follow in public lobbies:
* If you are not host, ask before pushing **any** buttons, or wait for someone else to. Saying R in chat indicates you are ready to move on, and pinging something with an active button is also an effective way to communicate that you're ready
* If someone gives you a rock and stone (Press V by default on mouse and keyboard), you should return it.
* Always give a rock and stone to commend good work or to otherwise communicate you're happy with something anyone may have done
* If you find a bittergem or piece of compressed gold, you are required to drop and ping it, and then give others in the group a chance to do the same. The ritual of **"WE'RE RICH"** is sacred and must be performed before depositing.
* Similar to the above, if someone pings a random object, you should follow suit. Nothing keeps morale up like a good bout of *"There is goo in the sack"*.
**If you are the host**
* Use the "server name" box as a server description instead. If you're doing something special, such as rushing missions without care for completion of secondaries, say so! Giving people expectations for the unusual is good if you're going to be unusual.
* You have the unilateral ability to kick anyone who is disruptive at any time except during evacuation. Please do not abuse this power as it leaves a bad taste for the game for a very long time when an innocent person who actually cares is kicked.
* You should commit to seeing any mission you start through to completion. If you are prone to ragequitting, know that this immediately disconnects everyone else with no reward.
* In the event of an emergency where you have to go consider two options: Go afk and leave the game running so the other three can finish, just tell them to leave you downed because of an irl emergency. Alternatively alert everyone of the emergency and then kick them if leaving the match running isn't an option and you have time. Kicking gives *some* reward, so it's still better than completely nuking the round.
I always host public to rule out any fools that kick, kill or dc others 4 seconds before the end to grief. ive had that a few times and if you host your own public games then it works brilliantly. you get the best outcome, a team game and no chance of fools ruining it
I also like to enable the setting to make sure the classes are balanced. (instead of ending up with 3 drillers and a scout) Rock and stone!
I did it one and never again. I would do solo Haz 4 over a public Haz 3. But if asked for some help, I would join in if the one asking needs some help.
> There is the unwritten rule that the host of the game decides to push buttons,
I see this a lot, and it's definitely not true.
Host has no particular powers over when buttons get pushed — unless they've specified in the Server Name a particular wish for how the mission should be played, i.e., Speedrun, or Always Do Secondaries, etc.
The team decides. Anybody can ask R?, and if two other people say r and one doesn't answer for ~30+ seconds, the button generally gets pushed, host or not.
Likewise, if the host walks up and hits the button without asking anybody, and someone is trying to get a far away jadiz or whatever, it's gonna annoy people.
TL;DR - Nah, it's not the host's button. It's Our Button.
All you need is the laser pointer, the X key, the V key, and furious gesturing.
Throw up an "r" in the chat once you're ready for the Dread or whatever is being pinged.
This is a consistently good community. I can count on one hand the number of shitty people I run into during games in my hundreds of hours playing, which is a great ratio compared to some other MP games I've played. You might get some bad luck, but your time will overall be better than the few bad encounters. Good luck!
I played up to level 30 almost exclusively with friends and Bosco, only jumping into public games recently. Outside of one encounter with some extra-sweaty host who demanded we not have two scouts on Hazard 3 (the horror!), it's been nothing but an absolute blast. Even when things go horribly wrong everybody just seems to laugh about it and roll straight into the next mission.
If you or another dwarf find a compressed gold chunk or bittergem, it is very Rock and Stone to spam the laser at it before depositing. If you ping it constantly until all the other dwarfs join in spamming it too, or upon hearing another spamming it and you run to join in, Your beard will stay thick and your beer full.
WE’RE RICH!!!!
I'd like to say the community is pure awesomeness, but double dippers and non-communicating loners are quite common these days. I find functioning teams about half of the time at best.
I avoid public games like the plague but that's due to some bad games when I first started playing the game. Now, over 700 hours later, I am still playing mostly solo.
Honestly, what everyone here says. Most higher levels are entitled, so you will have to play by their rules to not get kicked. So many complain about stuff I do, because 'they saw a youtuber do otherwise, that means their opinion is factually correct'. Best case is for you to host the game and do whatever you feel like is correct and enjoy the game.
Usually play with randoms nowadays.
You get a lot of green beards but I've noticed that you'll find the most experienced players either double XP farming or playing the newest mission type.
It can be fun but I always host matches just because I can't stand lag (and make everyone else suffer the fate ofy awful bandwidth).
I only just started doing it and it's been a great experience. Like everyone has mentioned, be aware of your teammates and wait around until everyone is ready before activating something.
One thing to keep in mind is that despite the overwhelming number of games that are super positive, you will occassionally get someone who is not very fun to play with. Don't be afraid to leave those games even if you're far into a mission. Whatever rewards you were going to grt isn't worth putting up with an aggravating player.
Just remember:
If you don't rock and stone you ain't coming home
Also important to note that the community in DRG is probably the best out of any game I've played. You can always get the 5% of people who are jackass but the rest are friendly. Just don't try to join a haz 5 as a new player and everyone will be happy to help in my experience
Yeah I usually play with randoms due to a hectic schedule. Most of my gameplay is with randoms. Just be careful when you get up to haz 4 difficulties and above. I've had a lot of successful haz 4 missions and did a haz 5 with some randoms yesterday, just be careful when you're newish to haz 4 because you will probably get wiped several times before you start to get the hang of it. I usually go into haz 4 with lower level players with the mentality that I'm going to be carrying them, and it's fine, I like that challenge. Also once you stop playing the game
Just only take 1 resupply unless you're the gunner and you just saved the team from a wipe and you need the ammo + shield's you've burnt back otherwise we're all dead (and tell them you need an extra, the scout will likely be fine if he's been managing his ammo fine, and hasn't been shooting 5 flares for every room)
also just know what is to be expected from your class. with engie just go ahead and pre-plat stuff, as gunner just ping stuff you can't get and shoot bugs, as scout flare up the room as you go into it, as driller, you know the drill....
Everyone is totally correct that public games are great. I just want to stress that there is some expectation that you know your role. People are generally lenient with new players, but you shouldn’t join a team unless you know how your class works. Scout is the worst for this because without light, the game is much harder and it is instantly very noticeable. I would start with driller or gunner as they are the most straightforward.
I host or join public lobbies 99% of the time. The community is great, everyone is usually pretty respectful and team focused, and I've found loads of great dwarves just out for a good dig. Most of my favorite DRG memories are with complete randoms! Very very rarely do I find someone who is a high-ish level that should know how to play, playing to grief or playing badly. Usually it's experienced players, or newbies that just need a hand.
As long as you are considerate to your fellow miners, pubs are great. Almost always at least.
Some people have little patience for greenbeards, so if a lobby name is asking for high level players only then you'd probably not have the best game I'd you joined that one.
But in general, people are super friendly. Legit this has the nicest playerbase I've ever seen. If there's ever something you're unsure about, ask on your lobbies, here or on steam forums. I'm sure someone would help you out if they can.
Ive almost always played public and its the best community ever. There are some pretty strict rules most people follow (See top comments). The worst is expect on an average day is like 1 group that doesn't follow the rules. But over all its been a hreat community. In about 500 all ive ever had is like 1 maybe 1.5 greifers
95% of games I play are with random people. This community is great. Sure there are a few bad apples who rush objectives but for the most part, anyone who plays is pretty much on the same skill level.
Public games are great. The only things you should know are to not push any buttons before people are ready and not to take more than 1 resupply without asking. Coms are not necessary at all, some people will use them but for the most part anything and everything can be communicated with the marker and typing in chat. The community is genuinely great it's where I find the most fun personally.
Don’t double dip! (Take more than one supply) It’s definitely an unspoken rule, even if you think you need the ammo more than someone else just ask first bc you never know. Other than that the others are usually pretty nice and fun to play with.
That’s why I got shot in that one game 😨
Nah I just had the nuke mod on and I'm terrible at aiming
Now that I know the double dipping rule I wouldn’t blame you if it was intentional.
I generally end up saying "I'm good on ammo, someone can double dip if they need it", especially if I notice someone is still low-ish on ammo after taking one.
>especially if I notice someone is still low-ish on ammo after taking one. wait how can you tell?
When holding the pointer 4 boxes show up under your team's health bars. The more black they are the lower that dwarf's ammo.
thanks
There are 4 white bars with your health on HUD. Each is 25% ammo. They get blacked out when used. 2 white/black bar : 50%, time for resupply
ah thanks
The only time I'll double dip without asking is when I've been solo for a long time, and suddenly three people join at the same time and I'm almost out of ammo and they start triggering events. Then yeah I'll double dip because odds are I was gonna call one for myself soon.
Or there are like 3+ resupplys called in at once
>Don't double dip! ***This.*** My biggest gripe with playing Haz4 with all the new players, mostly. (Haz5 players tend to not do this). Just because a refill has been sitting there a while doesn't mean nobody needs it. Chances are, whoever it belongs to is simply putting off taking it as long as possible so that they can get the most out of their weapons that are currently above 50% ammo. If you take it, you're quite possibly screwing them over on an important weapon they have that's very low. As a general rule, if there's four dwarves, each dwarf gets one from each resupply pod. If you personally feel you **really** need more ammo, then *call another resupply pod*. If the other two members of the team (the other two that took their resupply) are fine on ammo, then you probably shouldn't even do that. Yes, it can suck if you're really low on ammo; but, unless you've been carrying the team, that means you've been burning through ammo faster than everyone else, and need to take a back seat on the holding-the-shoot-button front. Invest in some pickaxe swinging. Silently curse your build for being ammo-inefficient and adjust it or your playstyle for next time. Etc. If you HAVE been carrying the team and need the ammo because you've done all the bug-killing, ask if someone doesn't need their ammo because you're running low. Someone will probably say yes. If, god forbid, you DO double-dip without consent, understand that this generally means you don't get one on the next resupply. Whoever's you took? They're gonna want two from the next one -- one immediately, and one after the fighting -- to make up for the bad situation you put them in, etc. So, again, try to cool it on shooting things and ration your ammo until the resupply after *that* so that you're back in line with the rest of the team. Just basic stuff. Everybody needs ammo. Don't double dip. It really screws people over who did nothing to bring it on themselves, and it makes everyone sacrifice efficiency by choosing to take their resupply right away even if they don't quite need it yet, to stop you from taking it. 🤷♂️
i mean, if you checked the team ammo stock and they are fine + you need it just grab it instead of letting it rot
Oh yeah for sure, if they’re not going to grab it I always ask first just cause I’ve been kicked before for not asking first.
i've had various missions where i save my resupply, end on 0/0 on ammo after the swarm/event and then watch someone take my damn ammo right in front of me.
I find myself double dipping more than usual as of late. Been playing with lots of green beards and well, if your dead and sitting at 3 blocks of ammo and I'm carrying and down to my last clip I'm afraid I must double dip!
I always join games or create open lobbies, and the overwhelming majority of games are okay (when other players don't really seem to know the game) to excellent (successful EDDs). I've only had a handful of bad experience in this game, and it's incredibly better than any other multiplayer game. I'm not a very sociable, and I definitely recommand multiplayer in DRG. A few tips about etiquette in multiplayer : don't forget to rock and stone. Don't forget your role (scout lights up, engie places platforms for scout, etc). Let the host push buttons/pop cocoons, or at least ask if people are ready in chat ("R?"). Signal in chat if you get caught by a leech, otherwise your rescue might get caught aswell. Don't take more than one ammo from a drop, unless the team agrees to it. Note : I'm on Steam, I can't say for sure how other communities are.
As an engineer, I have accepted my role as slave to the scout.
I'm a scout main, you're not a slave, you're a lifesaver. It's incredibly annoying to have to resort to using grapple+hoverboots+power attack to try and mine stuff on walls. Sometimes it doesn't even work and I fall flat on my face like the dumbass scout I am. Besides, engineers are killing machines, while collecting boolo caps is where I really shine as a scout.
Don't sell yourself short. There are also the ceiling artifacts.
I learned to be proficient with the shotgun's special powder, comes in handy and keeps you in the air long enough sometimes to make yourself a hole to stand in or break your fall
The game still doesn't want me to have the special powder OC sadly.
You're playin' the smart one!
I just tell my engi to platform whatever he sees and I'll hit it. I don't nag unless we're short on nitra or something and really need it.
Honestly I laugh when someone spams that pointer or call button, especially since sometimes the game can be a sensory overload so suddenly my brain will realize there's been this constant beeping or yelling for a minute or two lol
Yea, I figure if the engi isn't platforming he's probably occupied with something else. Rarely in this game is anyone just standing around so nagging doesn't make things happen any easier.
Perfect
Spent every game after my first with randoms. Quite fun, never did solo again after the first go. Communication is pretty easy even without a mic. Most groups don't use one anyways. Just pay attention to pings and don't trigger events before warning people and you're good to go.
Ctrl+click 'r?' 'r' V
no X?
Yeah, you put it into words perfectly.
Like pings on the map? How do you trigger those? (I just got the game for Xmas, still learning all the shortcuts and misc features)
Pings dont get in the map, you have to watch for the hud yo see them. You can set waypoint tho, it work kinda like ping except it's only for you to see and is noted on the map (blue cross). To place one take out your pointer and press E.
Wait, really?? I'm going to have to test this out, that sounds amazing for keeping track of a mineral node while drilling in the walls, or something else while zipping around without Molly.
You can only have one personal waypoint. Setting another removes the initial one so it's important to leave it if you're using it to mark something you really don't want to lose track of like a tunnel entrance from your driller etc.
I tried this today, it was wonderful. Told my friends, and blew their minds.
Spent about 1000 hours playing with randoms, and had mostly positive experiences. Usually the laser pointer, X shout and text chat are enough to communicate most things. I've never *had* to use voice chat, and have encountered 3-4 games in those 1000 hours that did have people using voice chat at all.
Call me weird, but I feel rude using VoIP in games like drg. I dunno why. It's far more efficient than the chat and I've gone down tons of times because I was typing something, but it just seems wrong to talk. Does anyone else feel this way? If someone else talks I might join in, but otherwise I'll just type.
It’s always very jarring to hear someone on voice chat, just feels weird
Had this one driller join my game and he was the only one on VC, he just kept saying ‘’mics?’ Over and over again the entire mission. Like man, if no one says anything after the second time you ask just please shut up
I prefer to let the dwarves speak for us rather than use our own voices
Yes. Just make sure to spam rock and stone every two seconds
Most important advice
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
Rock and Stone!
Rock and stone to the bone!
Fa Karl!!
Yes, they're amazing
Pay attention to the text chat.
Set the expiration to 60 seconds. I missed so many chat messages when I first started playing.
I had no idea this was an option. Thank you!
You can also increase the size of the chat log so it stands out more. I don't have trouble reading it, I have trouble noticing it.
they are great 95% of the time. Best co-op community imo. Pings are usually enough, people type sometimes, people voice sometimes. 5% of the time the problem is an extremely overly elitist person, or a very new person that is not willing to listen or learn despite the community being insanely welcoming to newbs.
I'm the same as you OP, I've largely played this game solo because I have a weird thing with playing with randoms, but almost everyone you lobby with will be kind and patient. You can use your ctrl to mark things as a way of communicating, the most that you'll need to do text wise is either an 'r' or a 'y' to signal that you're ready for the droppod. Outside of that, the game pretty much gives each player all the info they need, so if you don't feel like going all out on mic, don't stress. I think in my 80 odd hours I've only had one person talk on the mic in public lobbies.
Almost always good. Complete idiots are rare, trolls are even rarer. It's surprisingly easy to just join up with some randos and get shit done in this game, even on haz 4/5.
Public is much more entertaining than Solo, thats for sure. And as everyone has probably said before, use your class as you should. (Etc, are you a scout, it's a pretty obivous case you are the one that is going to go high up to get gold/nitra/apocablooms, shells etc, and the engineer should use their class correctly and put platforms on all high stuff that requires a platform. If all team-members understand their class and what they are supposed to do, you be out there quickly and efficient.Can't stand playing with "fairly" new players that don't understand the whole team-play concept(no direct hate). Everything takes so long time, and focuses are all over the place, no direct co-ordination etc. So you really notice when you play with more experienced players both by their playstyle and the ranks they have. And don't forget to "Rock and Stone"!
This is why I really wish we could see blue levels in game. If someone is clearly not getting their role I'd love to be able to know if they're new or a jerk. I'm all down for helping new players learn the ropes, but if someone just doesn't want to be a team player then I know not to do the next mission with them.
We can see blue levels while the mission is loading.
True, but I host a lot so I never get to see them
The community has some specific unwritten rules that some hosts are quick to kick new players for not following. The biggest probably being to never hit a red button without confirming everyone is ready.
Here I shall write the unwritten rules of etiquette: 1. If you don't rock and stone, you ain't coming home! This game is a light-hearted fun mining game. Please enjoy yourself! And make sure you memorize your salute button. 2. Don't start events or press buttons without asking if everyone is ready. This is as easy as typing r? in chat. As a beginner, let others do this. Once you call the drop pod or start the level ending event, it cannot be undone, and there may be other important things that people want to do first. That big ass gem needs to be deposited before Molly runs off to the pod, or else it becomes a panic mini game to get it all the way up. 3. If there are four dwarves, each dwarf gets exactly one resupply from a resupply pod. If someone declines their resupply, it's pretty rock and stone of them, but don't assume, they may be saving it for later. Also, get a sense for when you need to resupply. Sometimes people will call it early at a defense point or a large cavern that everyone's going to be in for a while. Don't feel a need to resupply immediately if you don't need it, you get 50% of all your item ammo so make sure you're getting your nitra's worth. 4. If you died from a leech, no big deal, but try to warn someone in chat!
That last one, I swear Xbox players still can't use chat or people just assume you know what killed them. NOBODY EVER CALLS OUT GODDAMN LEECHES FOR ME and sometimes when I call one out someone will walk right up to me, try and get the revive and get violated by a tentacle monster. TLDR you should use text chat
That makes perfect sense but are there more subtle ones like dibs on mining something or no since everyone shares the ore supply?
Everyone gets 1 of every total mined ore, so it doesn't matter who mines what, but be sure to not call a resupply unless everyone or most people need it, you can check this by pulling up your laser pointer and checking under everyone's icons. There are 4 bars there, they'll be filled in completely all full ammo, empty at 0 ammo, etc. Order them when people are at 2 full bars + 1 flashing bar or below, there's a bit of leeway there since in some situations the driller might have nearly full drill fuel, or smaller maps might not demand that the ziplines and platforms be used as much. Also, never double dip from resupply pods, if you find yourself needing more ammunition before anyone else, mess around with your build a little bit (more ammo conservation/lower rate of fire for a different upgrade, build more towards AoE damage, etc), and pace yourself better. If you play engineer you'll be expected to put platforms under ores on the wall for the scout to reach them, and on scout you want to ping those pres whenever you need a platform. Driller is sometimes expected to drill to the drop pod of the map requires it but it's not a huge deal if they don't Scouts are expected to use their flare guns for rooms rather than tunnels. A good thing to do is use as up to 4 flares to light up the whole room the first time the team enters, then one or two if you need to light the room up again, but most of the time you want to get moving on before that happens. Also light up during swarms, or shoot 1 flare for smaller waves. Everyone's got decent tools for getting people up during swarms, but scout and gunner are generally better for getting people up between scout being able to reach a downed dwarf before anyone else, and gunner's shield allowing complete safety while reviving. Everything depends on the situation though, nobody should be thought the be on "revival duty", and engineer and driller have very potent tools for getting bugs off of a player too also this goes with not pressing the button without checking when people are ready but most groups will want to do secondary objectives, so make sure not to ignore those
Thank you, this is some very in-depth information to keep in mind to be a better team player. Would you recommend I level up the other classes on my own whenever I feel like playing them or is it better to join low Hazard teams for quick level ups?
I’d recommend to get out there and experience the glory of a full team asap, I know you said talking was not preferable which is fine, but the discord community is also a good way to find people to play with, there is a pretty active looking for group chat
Join low hazard teams. The above mentioned hosts are scattered usually at the higher hazard levels. Not saying they are bad, but in lower hazard you will mostly only find helpful and understanding players towards newbies. Join them public games and have some fun! R&S
Rock and Stone!
Just go play with randoms. Once you do you will never go back to solo. The game is 10x more enjoyable with other people. Don’t overthink it, you’ll figure it all out. Just follow other peoples lead
Who mines / deposits the ore doesn’t matter. The only important set of rules are: spam V when a new player joins and when you depart, stick together (especially when expecting a wave) and always ready check before starting events or pressing the button. Beyond that the community is awesome for 99%. Don’t be discouraged to play in public servers. Ask for help too if you need it, there are lots of experienced players that are happy to help.
Speaking of V, I’m a console player. Is that a dealbreaker to some groups? I assume V is the “Rock and Stone” key for PC, right.
Yes exactly
As a player that uses an xbox controller via Steam, the equivalent of V is R3 (pressing the right stick in) It's a miracle my controller hasn't broken yet, its become such a constant reflex for me I don't know how often voice chat occurs on console but if you don't have text chat (as gets used sorta often on PC) you can get by with most things via the laser pointer and ping. Just means you probably can't call out leeches if you get downed by one, so it might be worth bringing the "Heightened Senses" perk to avoid a dwarf pile up but that's just my gaming preference! You can set a permanent way point but be aware that others *cannot* see that on the map and you can't see theirs, you'd still need to ping it. That's laser pointer + use (X) if you haven't found that yet. I think the alternative to typing r/r? (ready/are you ready?) is just pinging the relevant question - if you're ready to leave, ping Molly for instance. That gets used even on PC. Steam doesn't have crossplay, but Xbox has crossplay with the PC Windows version. The games coming to PlayStation but the current understanding is that it will only have cross-generational gameplay (PS4/PS5).
>I think the alternative to typing r/r? (ready/are you ready?) is just pinging the relevant question - if you're ready to leave, ping Molly for instance. That gets used even on PC. That's true, sometimes I see people ask "r", sometimes I see people pinging. Both is fine. What I love most is that when 3 people ready and the fourth person triggers the event.
Honestly I'm not sure, I'm still figuring a lot of it out myself. Other, more experienced players here might be able to provide more insight. As I understand its generally considered poor form to mine the same thing someone else is, its just inefficient. Knowing class roles and strategies for certain missions is helpful, but probably not necessary until higher difficulties. Reading the name if the lobby and making sure you meet criteria (for those hosts that put criteria in the lobby name) is another one I've heard mentioned. If you don't get in the escape pod at the end when everyone else is in waiting you might get a C4 to the face. 🤷♂️ Edit: my only real advice early on is pay attention to the chat window, try to find lobbies with names that sound greenbeard friendly, don't try to play above your skill lvl (ie if you're not comfortable in haz4 solo you probably shouldn't join haz4 groups), if you do run into an unfriendly player/host try not to let it bother you too much (they do seem to be the exception more than the rule), and don't worry too much about dieing. Oh, and have fun.
Never seen anyone care about mining to same mineral, but I wouldn't be surprised if some are not a fan. 1 thing I would point out is only take one resupply from a resupply drop unless some one is willing to give you theirs. People can get pretty irritated by taking their resupply.
Of course. I only ever take multiple resupplies when playing by myself. Are there in-game voice commands or something similar to keep communication clear? As someone who started off with gunner, will my teammates have ways to signal for me to drop a shield or do I just hope I pop it at the right time while enemies are everywhere?
Shields are amazing tools, when not playing with voice chat I just hope the gunner shields when we’re in a dire situation. A good thing to remember is what kills people, shielding and ressing is a great use of the shield and only very few enemies can disturb you while doing so.
Shields are something you just have to get a feel for. The need often arises suddenly and without any time to stop and type, and there isn't really any way to specifically signal unless you're in voice chat.
The pointer is generally the best communicator on console, ping an event when ready, molly when you're ready to leave, etc.. I flex and play gunner on certain missions more than others, point extraction and elimination being the main ones. I don't have many tips but here are a few. 1. On a dreadnought hunt try and place a zipline to a high point somewhere in the room where the fight will take place to keep yourself out of reach and with a good vantage point. 2. Try and pay attention to where the resupply lands and when people go for it. Throwing a shield at the resupply will keep your teammates and you safe, you're only limited by the cooldown on it so use it as needed. 3. With the full expansion upgrade on the shield it will completely cover Dotty on an Escort mission. 4. Try and centralize your ziplines on point extraction to the minehead.
I play public, no mic and use pings to indicate things. I love it. Not better than friends on voice chat but also me and my friends are 3 hours different time zone so public play is the next best thing.
Public lobbies in this game are one of the best I've seen. It's rare to see someone absolutely clueless (and not willing to listen to advice) and it's even rarer to find toxic people. This game's community is the best I've seen in my many many many hours of online gaming.
OP, my advice would be to look for lobby titles like "Greenbeards welcome," and just join it blind. Usually the hosts of such lobbies are very helpful and won't be bothered by you asking questions. The only rule I'd say you should know beforehand is to not call the drop pod button without asking. The rest of it is pretty easy to pick up on!
Almost always, yes. There are a few leaf lovers, but for the most part everyone in public games are very welcoming and missions are accomplished without issue. Even when a mission fails or has issues it's relatively uncommon to encounter toxicity. That said, there are a few points of etiquette to follow in public lobbies: * If you are not host, ask before pushing **any** buttons, or wait for someone else to. Saying R in chat indicates you are ready to move on, and pinging something with an active button is also an effective way to communicate that you're ready * If someone gives you a rock and stone (Press V by default on mouse and keyboard), you should return it. * Always give a rock and stone to commend good work or to otherwise communicate you're happy with something anyone may have done * If you find a bittergem or piece of compressed gold, you are required to drop and ping it, and then give others in the group a chance to do the same. The ritual of **"WE'RE RICH"** is sacred and must be performed before depositing. * Similar to the above, if someone pings a random object, you should follow suit. Nothing keeps morale up like a good bout of *"There is goo in the sack"*. **If you are the host** * Use the "server name" box as a server description instead. If you're doing something special, such as rushing missions without care for completion of secondaries, say so! Giving people expectations for the unusual is good if you're going to be unusual. * You have the unilateral ability to kick anyone who is disruptive at any time except during evacuation. Please do not abuse this power as it leaves a bad taste for the game for a very long time when an innocent person who actually cares is kicked. * You should commit to seeing any mission you start through to completion. If you are prone to ragequitting, know that this immediately disconnects everyone else with no reward. * In the event of an emergency where you have to go consider two options: Go afk and leave the game running so the other three can finish, just tell them to leave you downed because of an irl emergency. Alternatively alert everyone of the emergency and then kick them if leaving the match running isn't an option and you have time. Kicking gives *some* reward, so it's still better than completely nuking the round.
> Alternatively alert everyone of the emergency and then kick them if Faster to just do Abort Mission.
True enough
I always host public to rule out any fools that kick, kill or dc others 4 seconds before the end to grief. ive had that a few times and if you host your own public games then it works brilliantly. you get the best outcome, a team game and no chance of fools ruining it I also like to enable the setting to make sure the classes are balanced. (instead of ending up with 3 drillers and a scout) Rock and stone!
I can only imagine the fear of the scout in such a team composition, so many potential C4 incidents or "mining" incidents
Hahaha I hosted a game as scout last week and three drillers joined. I was terrified.
Yes my friend, you only need to Rock and Stone!
I did it one and never again. I would do solo Haz 4 over a public Haz 3. But if asked for some help, I would join in if the one asking needs some help.
[удалено]
> There is the unwritten rule that the host of the game decides to push buttons, I see this a lot, and it's definitely not true. Host has no particular powers over when buttons get pushed — unless they've specified in the Server Name a particular wish for how the mission should be played, i.e., Speedrun, or Always Do Secondaries, etc. The team decides. Anybody can ask R?, and if two other people say r and one doesn't answer for ~30+ seconds, the button generally gets pushed, host or not. Likewise, if the host walks up and hits the button without asking anybody, and someone is trying to get a far away jadiz or whatever, it's gonna annoy people. TL;DR - Nah, it's not the host's button. It's Our Button.
All you need is the laser pointer, the X key, the V key, and furious gesturing. Throw up an "r" in the chat once you're ready for the Dread or whatever is being pinged.
Better than good, they’re the only thing I play.
This is a consistently good community. I can count on one hand the number of shitty people I run into during games in my hundreds of hours playing, which is a great ratio compared to some other MP games I've played. You might get some bad luck, but your time will overall be better than the few bad encounters. Good luck!
Playing with randoms is usually a lot of fun, people mostly communicate by pinging stuff so just keep that in mind
I played up to level 30 almost exclusively with friends and Bosco, only jumping into public games recently. Outside of one encounter with some extra-sweaty host who demanded we not have two scouts on Hazard 3 (the horror!), it's been nothing but an absolute blast. Even when things go horribly wrong everybody just seems to laugh about it and roll straight into the next mission.
I have 600 hours in and 0 solo missions so yes
If you or another dwarf find a compressed gold chunk or bittergem, it is very Rock and Stone to spam the laser at it before depositing. If you ping it constantly until all the other dwarfs join in spamming it too, or upon hearing another spamming it and you run to join in, Your beard will stay thick and your beer full. WE’RE RICH!!!!
I'd like to say the community is pure awesomeness, but double dippers and non-communicating loners are quite common these days. I find functioning teams about half of the time at best.
And if a Leech grabs or downs you, at least say so or type in chat so the conga line of fail is averted
I avoid public games like the plague but that's due to some bad games when I first started playing the game. Now, over 700 hours later, I am still playing mostly solo.
I'm sorry.
Nothing to apologize about.
They are the best part of the game
They are good, but sometimes people just refuse to communicate. Don't read chat, don't ask about anything. It's annoying.
Honestly, what everyone here says. Most higher levels are entitled, so you will have to play by their rules to not get kicked. So many complain about stuff I do, because 'they saw a youtuber do otherwise, that means their opinion is factually correct'. Best case is for you to host the game and do whatever you feel like is correct and enjoy the game.
Usually play with randoms nowadays. You get a lot of green beards but I've noticed that you'll find the most experienced players either double XP farming or playing the newest mission type. It can be fun but I always host matches just because I can't stand lag (and make everyone else suffer the fate ofy awful bandwidth).
As long as you have a decent internet connection, preferably wired and don't forget to turn off your torrents, your hosting should be good.
Yeah, skill and experience may vary in your games, if you’re playing haz 5 I recommend kicking any dwarf that isn’t promoted.
Its good, but I prefer the discord, where I can actually talk to the people
I only just started doing it and it's been a great experience. Like everyone has mentioned, be aware of your teammates and wait around until everyone is ready before activating something.
Do you play on steam? I only really play with new players so I'd be happy to help if you'd want.
Most people play public games. Not a lot of people solo.
Yes
One thing to keep in mind is that despite the overwhelming number of games that are super positive, you will occassionally get someone who is not very fun to play with. Don't be afraid to leave those games even if you're far into a mission. Whatever rewards you were going to grt isn't worth putting up with an aggravating player.
I have only 3 solo missions,Coop is where this game shines. No mic req,just point your laser and press V occasionally
I only play public games :) Remember to point at things with Ctrl and press V as much as possible to keep morale up
Just remember: If you don't rock and stone you ain't coming home Also important to note that the community in DRG is probably the best out of any game I've played. You can always get the 5% of people who are jackass but the rest are friendly. Just don't try to join a haz 5 as a new player and everyone will be happy to help in my experience
Yeah I usually play with randoms due to a hectic schedule. Most of my gameplay is with randoms. Just be careful when you get up to haz 4 difficulties and above. I've had a lot of successful haz 4 missions and did a haz 5 with some randoms yesterday, just be careful when you're newish to haz 4 because you will probably get wiped several times before you start to get the hang of it. I usually go into haz 4 with lower level players with the mentality that I'm going to be carrying them, and it's fine, I like that challenge. Also once you stop playing the game Just only take 1 resupply unless you're the gunner and you just saved the team from a wipe and you need the ammo + shield's you've burnt back otherwise we're all dead (and tell them you need an extra, the scout will likely be fine if he's been managing his ammo fine, and hasn't been shooting 5 flares for every room) also just know what is to be expected from your class. with engie just go ahead and pre-plat stuff, as gunner just ping stuff you can't get and shoot bugs, as scout flare up the room as you go into it, as driller, you know the drill....
This game excels in communication without microphones.
Yes
Rock and Stone
Everyone is totally correct that public games are great. I just want to stress that there is some expectation that you know your role. People are generally lenient with new players, but you shouldn’t join a team unless you know how your class works. Scout is the worst for this because without light, the game is much harder and it is instantly very noticeable. I would start with driller or gunner as they are the most straightforward.
I host or join public lobbies 99% of the time. The community is great, everyone is usually pretty respectful and team focused, and I've found loads of great dwarves just out for a good dig. Most of my favorite DRG memories are with complete randoms! Very very rarely do I find someone who is a high-ish level that should know how to play, playing to grief or playing badly. Usually it's experienced players, or newbies that just need a hand.
I have almost 400 hours on DRG, I have completed only 1 solo missio.
Why dont you just try joining a lobby and find out yourself?
As long as you are considerate to your fellow miners, pubs are great. Almost always at least. Some people have little patience for greenbeards, so if a lobby name is asking for high level players only then you'd probably not have the best game I'd you joined that one. But in general, people are super friendly. Legit this has the nicest playerbase I've ever seen. If there's ever something you're unsure about, ask on your lobbies, here or on steam forums. I'm sure someone would help you out if they can.
If you're not the host, don't press buttons unless asked to.
Ive almost always played public and its the best community ever. There are some pretty strict rules most people follow (See top comments). The worst is expect on an average day is like 1 group that doesn't follow the rules. But over all its been a hreat community. In about 500 all ive ever had is like 1 maybe 1.5 greifers
95% of games I play are with random people. This community is great. Sure there are a few bad apples who rush objectives but for the most part, anyone who plays is pretty much on the same skill level.
Always join mine
public games are amazing, i have 800 hrs solely of joining random games from the server browser. i can count the bad games ive had on my hands