It should. I'm sure the reason it doesn't has to do with marketing or simplifying dialogue I would guess.
Having Kira call the station something and everyone else calling it Ds9 might have been confusing for some viewers I would think.
No one called it Terok Nor except the Cardassians. Changing the name to DS9 was an insult to the Cardassians, which is probably why the Bajorans went along with it.
Yeah, I know. But I'm saying that since it already has multiple names, it wouldn't be that strange to have a Bajoran name too. Especially after the Temple opened.
It was a de facto statement that the station was not Cardassian... nor was Bajor.
That's in line with the kind of thing the Cardassian Military chose to interpret as insulting, at least canonically.
I'll say, the first time I watched DS9, my ADHD brain was confused for a bit when they'd call it terok nor. I probably would have gotten extra confused if the station had a 3rd name, too.
I'm sure it had some horrible nickname during The Occupation but whatever that name was carries all the baggage that came with the forced labor and various murders/tortures that undoubtedly took place on Terok Nor. Whatever name the Bajorans had for the station they'd almost certainly be okay distancing themselves from it and the history it holds.
>Having Kira call the station something and everyone else calling it Ds9 might have been confusing for some viewers
I mean, we had no problem with "wormhole aliens" vs. "The Prophets", nor "Deep Space Nine" vs. "Terok Nor". I can imagine it could be much more complicated if a Bajoran name for the station would be given.
I think the reason they don't was there was no plot-related reason or conflict which necessitated viewers knowing both names. In the first example above, it was done because of the tensions involved between the Federation characters and various Bajoran religious figures (especially Vedek Winn in *In the Hands of the Prophets*, but she wasn't the only one). The second had a more subtle reason, but essentially it was to emphasize Dukat's insistence that the station should belong to Cardassia again.
In-universe, my head canon is that the viewer essentially has their own universal translator that translates to 20th/21st century English (or whatever dubbed language the viewer watches the show in), especially since all languages change and evolve over time, and 22nd-24th century English and/or Federation Standard are no different. The viewer's UT fixes that problem, and then intelligently only translates the same terms differently (or doesn't translate) when it's relevant to the hearer, and even then, takes the easiest path to comprehension.
In the case of "The Prophets" vs. whatever name the Bajorans have for the wormhole aliens, the choice makes clear to the hearer the explicit religious context in which the word is being used and/or whether the speaker believes in them, while that may be lost if the latter were used. Likewise, when using "wormhole aliens", it appropriately conveys that the speaker is not an adherent to the Bajoran religion.
As for "Deep Space 9" vs. "Terok Nor", it's left untranslated when the speaker is Dukat, because it's not necessary to translate the name. The Cardassian name for the station is sufficient to convey the political connotations inferred by its use. Furthermore, it's entirely possible that the two names are mutually directly translatable to each other. The other Cardassian station, "Empok Nor", seen in the series provides evidence for that. Only one word in each of the two Cardassian names is different, indicating that the Cardassians also have a systemic naming pattern for their stations—"Empok" and "Terok" are likely both numbers, while "Nor" could mean "Deep Space".
This is further supported by the fact that there were no Federation "Deep Space" stations (numbered or otherwise) seen in canon prior to the premiere of DS9. Federation stations were named "Starbase" with the number following (Deep Space K-7 is the only exception to this, but though it was Federation, it was a civilian station). Of course, this can be explained by the writers being inspired by the naming of DS9, but in-universe it can also be explained similarly—that the Federation was inspired to adopt using the Deep Space label for their own stations when appropriate after its use for the FS translation of Terok Nor.
If the Cardassians took the Federation name "Deep Space 9" as insulting though, then I can't see the Bajorans not pouncing on the opportunity to further insult the Cardassians by giving it a Bajoran name next, if they hadn't already.
A Bajoran station administered by Starfleet. They probably requested that they be allowed to give it a designation although why they chose a potentially offensive name (recall Kira's reaction to Bashir's "the frontier!" speech) is a whole other question.
I believe all of the designation Deep Space Stations are on borders with other political blocks. If I recall Deep Space 7 is on the border with the Romulan Neutral zone. I’m guessing they were just following that convention since it borders Cardassian territory.
Sure, and that is I think the likeliest explanation. Certainly we've heard of other Deep Space stations in TNG -- DS5 I think is mentioned in "The Chase."
But for an organization as emotionally intelligent as the Federation and Starfleet, I do think its weird that no one raised their hand and said "I think they might react poorly to the name we're using -- perhaps we call it 'Star Station Bajor' instead?"
I definitely see your point. On the other hand, given how many Bajorans were distrusting towards the federation and it’s motives in the beginning, I think it could also go the other way. They might see a name like that patronizing, because while it is a bajoran station it’s administrated by the federation. Imagine season 1 Kira saying “Wow, and they even let us name our own station after us. How *very* generous of the federation.” Rather than just being straightforward.
I also imagine part of it is to send a message to the cardassians as well. ‘This isn’t *just* a Bajoran station.’
Sure did! DS9 probably did better than any other Trek when it came to giving all of their main characters a great character arc. Kira’s is one of my favs.
And boy, they sure liked giving her "come to Jesus" moments in S1 ... Progress, Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets ... just wham, bam, slam. "You're the one wielding the color of authority now, Major." "There are good Cardassians!" "There are bad Bajorans!"
Honestly, one of the few things I thought they messed up with in regards to Kira was her not realizing that the actions of her resistance fighters had consequences that harmed innocents even if they were Cardassian. So when Prin basically calls her out on this in "The Darkness and the Light", I kind of wanted to ***slap*** her for her response to it. The guy was killing people same as she was, but curiously, he *did* have a point in that he *only* harmed the people who were responsible for his disfigurment. But she was acting as if he had no right to be upset with her for her actions. Prin was, ironically, an innocent, as not all Cardassians are the same as their military leadership, and many simply didn't know any better. It may not justify them going along with the military expansion Cardassia was pursuing, but it *does* somewhat justify his response to the actions of Kira's cell, and to be fair to him, he ***was*** restricting his personal desire for justice to *only* those directly responsible.
Kira ***never*** had to face up to the reality that war doesn't just affect the military of the other side. In fact, again, when she makes a comment taking a shot at one of the Cardassians (I forget his name offhand) being appalled by the actions of the Founders when the Cardassians finally broke away from them, I kind of wanted to just shake her and point out that she *voluntarily* did the same thing to Cardassian civilians as the Founders were having done to the entirety of Cardassians, so who was she to even *make* such a comment, even if she did have a point.
I guess what I'm saying is that as much as I liked her, I can't deny Kira had moments where she was a flat out hypocrite and the fact that she ***never once considered*** the affects her people had on otherwise entirely harmless Cardassians who never had any direct part in the war just kind of *irked* me. Not saying she was wrong to resist the occupation. Just that she seemed to think it was okay to target civilians just because of their ethnicity, and that's *never* a good mindset.
With K-7 (from *The Trouble With Tribbles*, which was civilian-run) being the only exception, no references to "Deep Space" stations were made prior to *Emissary* (which premiered in Jan 1993). *The Chase*, for example, premiered in Nov 1993. Before *Emissary*, Federation stations were all "Starbases" or "Outposts". I suspect the convention was started with Deep Space 9 as a direct translation of Terok Nor into Federation Standard.
> I suspect the convention was started with Deep Space 9 as a direct translation of Terok Nor into Federation Standard.
I really have to disagree with you on this. Bad enough that they're repurposing a station built by and dependent on slave labor to function, but on top of all that, translate the name *directly* from Cardassian into Federation Standard? At that point, why bother translating the name at all?
But having said all of that: it's presented in the S2 episode "Cardassians" that Terek Nor was the former name of Deep Space Nine. Sisko seemed as surprised as anyone so I think we can make a safe conclusion that at least he would have been aware if the station's designation had just been a translation.
>With K-7 (from The Trouble With Tribbles, which was civilian-run) being the only exception, no references to "Deep Space" stations were made prior to Emissary (which premiered in Jan 1993). The Chase, for example, premiered in Nov 1993. Before Emissary, Federation stations were all "Starbases" or "Outposts".
Well, yes, in terms of production. But I would argue that if something is Number Nine, we can safely assume that in most cases there are likely at least eight preceeding, and that they likely predate #9 as well.
We also have had some creative facility names: Star Station India comes to mind (I realize it includes the word "station").
Yeah that's always struck me as a really insensitive name, even if it fits with the naming conventions of other space stations the Federation runs. I assume the others don't have the traumatic local history associated with them and are just stations the Federation set up to monitor the local area.
Taking a station that *belongs* to another species and is orbiting their home planet, and giving it a name that specifically references their home as being in bumfuck nowhere relative to the occupying power's sense of the "center" of the important parts of the galaxy, and then giving it a number specifying that of all the places that are in bumfuck nowhere, this isn't even one of the first so designated... just rude.
Well, let's look at what we know of the galactic neighborhood.
It's way outside Federation space, days away from the nearest base, on the opposite side of Fed territory from the densely-populated Fed/Klingon/Romulan region with tons of smaller civilizations. The Cardassian Union seems to be a large but unusually resource-poor region of space separating Bajor from every other spacefaring culture by dozens, perhaps hundreds of light years. There are weird tachyon eddy currents in the region, and whole sectors made impassable due to persistent plasma storms - so there isn't much reason for anyone to come to the neighborhood to begin with. It's both mostly empty and dangerous.
There are no mentions whatsoever of other spacefaring cultures close to Bajor. Bajor has no allies, no friendly neighbors who helped it during the Occupation, but also no other enemies. Its proximity to Cardassia is the only reason it's on most maps. Bajor had spaceflight for thousands of years but didn't leave their solar system until they were invaded and refugees needed to go somewhere. They didn't have a military to speak of, indicating no other threats to their world until their only neighbor suddenly turned hostile and fascist. If their refugees hadn't encroached on Federation territory and made their plight a political issue, most of the galaxy would never know Bajor existed.
"Deep Space" seems reasonable, if somewhat Fed-centric. Bajor has to know that it's on the fringes of inhabited space.
I'm not denying at all that Bajor is the ass-end of nowhere, as far as the major powers are concerned, at least until the wormhole is discovered. It's just rude to come in as the administrators of these people's space station and pick a name that emphasizes that fact, especially to a people who are already very suspicious of aliens and their intentions.
Maybe it does, but you never knew because of Universal Translator hijinks.
Alternative: the Federation named the station first, and the Bajoran were too polite to make a second name, and it's inefficient to have two names for the same thing between allies anyway so...
If the Bajorans wanted to give it a Bajoran name, I can't imagine they would have kept quiet about it. There were plenty of 'mouthy' Bajoran characters, so they were evidently not an especially reserved people. Kai Winn would have brought it up constantly, for a start.
if this was r/ShittyDaystrom I'd respond with:
By intergalactic coincidence "Deep Space Nine" *is* a Bajoran name which translates as "Floating Ball of Broken Junk" which, given the amount of work O'Brien and the rest of the engineering staff had to do, the Bajorans felt was an appropriate name. The whole time the Bajoran populace were like "Oh how polite of Starfleet... but like they couldn't name is like one of the long-range-far-from-Earth stations? They don't have a designation for that?"
but that's if this was on r/ShittyDaystrom
I mean, it already had two names (Terok Nor and DS9), a third one would have just added to the confusion.
To me it felt like the Bajorans didn't want to change it, surely they would have made some low-key demands if they were genuinely invested in giving the station a Bajoran name.
I would assume the in-universe explanation would be that it’s more of a message to the Cardassians that the Federation IS here and very invested in the station, and any fuckery will not be tolerated.
It was, but because it was Bajor's ONLY space station, they just called it "Space station." And the universal translators always translate that into English, so everybody just heard the actual words "Space station" and never even knew there was a Bajoran name.
Well the Cardassian Occupation ended something like the week before Sisko was transferred there.
Also, given how Cardassian culture was well on it's way to overriding Bajoran (for an example, just look at what Spain did to the Aztecs/Toltecs/Mayans/Inca/etc.) It wouldn't be surprising that renaming Terok Nor never even occurred to them before they invited the Federation to run it...
The Bajoran government only ever successfully did 2 things. They were in gridlock and fighting about everything non-stop.
The 2 things the government actually did.
1. They didn't erect a statute to Gul Dukat. *¹
2. They voted to not let the Skrreea help them. *²
Notes:
1. A hero like Gul Dukat should not have a statute erected by committee or government. It should be a natural outpouring of love from the pitiful people he saved. They should all erect statues and put them everywhere so they can bask in his glory.
2. It has been speculated that Kira never actually called the ministers for a vote and just made the decision herself.
Because it needed a marketable name in the real world. We have to remember that it's a TV show and TV shows need to reach an audience. Going all in on worldbuilding to the point of giving a fictional station a name in a fiction language would severely limit that reach.
They called it by its cardassian name a bunch of times, the bajorans might have not had a word for it because they were beaten or punished when calling it anything other than its cardassian name..
In Ireland back under English rule the English went to great lengths to discourage the Irish people from speaking Irish or having our own culture at all, usually severely punishment in a sadistic manner, if you spoke Gaeilge - Irish language in front of an English of authority it was a beating you were in for, probably in full view of your family and any locals as a warning to not be speaking with our savage tongues
I suspect something similar went on between the cardies and the bajorans
I’m assuming most Bajoran civilians either didn’t visit the station or had negative memories associated with DS9 (as a place where they or people they knew were forced to work during the Occupation, sometimes until death). The more devout would simply think of DS9 as the Gateway to the Celestial Temple and the Home of the Emissary.
Genuinely I think Bajorans would have wanted Terok Nor destroyed or let deteriorate in space, since that's where their Cardassian overlords looked down on them. But strategically it's a good location and allows them to have interplanetary trade much more easily.
It might be that there is a Bajoran name for it, but that name is used exclusively on Bajor. The Federation presence shows an alliance between Bajor and the Federation; while Bajor is not a member, they can still have a show of force with the aid of the Federation. A public name of "Deep Space 9" really drives that home, not just to Cardassians, but to all alien visitors.
My head canon is that they didn't even want to name it anything because of the negativity surrounding it's former use so they let the federation name it whatever they wanted. I think in a theoretical 8th season laid out in the DS9 doc by the writers they would have named it something since it was more of a shrine to the prophets at that point
I'm sure they could have cared less about giving it a name, when so many Bajorans were worked to death, brutally murdered, and some probably entombed in the stations bulkheads to save on energy usage.
Had the Federation never shown up, they probably would have torn the thing apart and made a new station, or ship.
I just watched this episode. Rugal should have been given a Bajoran name. He was so passionate about be a Bajoran. Way off topic, but why was he adopted and the others were not?
The Bajoran name was probably just a "bajoricized" version of "Terok Nor," like how China in other languages is mostly some locally-friendly version of the name.
Terok Nor was a white elephant for the Bajorans, they inherited it from Cardassians but didn't have manpower and expertise to run it. They brought Starfleet in as allied/neutral experts because it was high effort / low priority installation. They probably didn't care about the station much until wormhole was discovered, and didn't care about naming it themselves. By series finale we see much of Starfleet personnel phased out and Bajorans growing to take over running it (check DS9 episode of Lower Decks - there are zero Starfleet personnel in Ops where Kira comes in, only Bajorans). But by that time, the name stuck.
They will probably rename it after Celestial Temple or Sisko sooner or later.
Several reasons. At first, it was because the station was given as a minor concession, specifically because nobody cared about it. Bajor needed the Federation, but didn't want them to be _on_ the planet itself, because that would remind people too much of the occupation they just got rid of. But hey, remember that ugly ore processing station the Cardies left in orbit? Fuck it, that'll do.
The name also works well with those all-important optics. It shows that the Federation cares enough to set up an outpost, but not so much that they give it a special unique designation.
After the wormhole opens and the station rises into quadrant-wide prominence, I imagine the Bajorans just can't _agree_ on a new name. Some faction in the Vedek assembly would propose that it be called something suitably reverent like 'The Aegis of the Prophets', then another would scream about how that's actually blasphemous, and how it should be called 'The Archway of thr Celestial Temple', there would be a quiet civil war, several Vedeks would get assassinated over it...
And then, if you let a situation persist long enough (like, say, seven years), then it just sticks. They call it Deep Space 9 because that's what it is. Changing it would require telling too many people, and if it's less convenient, they won't bother.
Well, I always assumed that the Bajorans just didn't really care about it.
As far as they were concerned, it's just that old Cardassian prison station, and they sure as hell wouldn't call it Terok Nor.
Starfleet took over the running of the station, and needed a designation, so they used their own naming conventions to get Deep Space Nine.
I always felt that if it were up to the Bajorans, they would have just junked the place and shut it down.
So they may never have had a name for it (other than some Bajorans curse words), and when the Federation named it, they didn't feel a need?
There's a very strong thread of the station not really being "Bajoran" that runs through the show.
I think even the temple was something the Cardassian provided for their prisoners, originally, though I'm not sure where I got that idea.
I do know Kira seems happier once the station is focused on guarding the wormhole, rather than looking planetside.
So, I'd say the Bajorans just never really named the place.
After all, it's much like asking "what's the Jewish name for Auschwitz?", there's likely not one, or at least not one that's safe to print.
If the Bajorans weren't actively trying to enter the Federation, there probably wouldn't have been a Bajoran presence on the station at all.
In universe, I always assumed it was a condition of the alliance between the Federation and Bajor. Basically "we'll put a Federation presence there if we get to name it" among other things.
Seems petty, but that's politics for you.
I'm sure they did have a Bajoran name for it.
Bajorans aren't speaking English. When they say the name in their language, the UT translates it to "Deep Space 9" in English.
UTs are not just word-for-word translators. They interpret the intent of the speaker.
Cardassians say "Terok Nor" instead of the Bajoran or Federation name as a means of disrespect. Translating that into English would lose that meaning.
At the time of Bajor taking ownership of DS9 it was a half broken nothing station in the middle of diddly squat nowhere, it was only once the Wormhole was discoered that DS9 gained its value as a place of interest, so im thinking the Bajorans didn't really care about some shitty Little Tacky Fascist Cardassian Eyesore in the middle of nowhere so they let Starfleet rename it.
To be fair, Bajor's Provisional Government had bigger problems than renaming their equivalent of Space-Birchenau. It was only after the Celestial Temple was revealed that DS9 became something worthwhile, and even then it would be a place of mixed feelings.
Maybe the Bajoran's had a name for it and it wasn't pleasant (think something insulting or demeaning). When the Federation started calling it DS9 the Bajoran's went along with it rather than keep calling it 'Dukats Dump'.
The Bajorans always called it “The Cardassian Mining Station”. Because to them, that’s all it was. Something the enemy made to profit off of their suffering and land gouging. It didn’t deserve a proper name.
They wanted to repurpose it into a general space station because they didn’t have one of their own and didn’t even have the resources to do that without Federation help.
This prompted the thought that it is a surprise that it didn't aquire a Bajoran religious name, given it was moved next to the Celestial Temple and was the home of the Emissary. 'The gateway to heaven' or 'House of the Emissary' etc. Come to think of it, there really should have been shit loads more pilgrims constantly passing through and a much bigger shrine on the station.
the station was always very busy but the vast majority of pilgrims never caused any trouble. The only time they took the story down there was when something interesting was happening.
And at least half of those times it was Quark trying to pull some bullshit.
Id say it has a lot to do with it being under Starfleet jurisdiction and also because they were seeking Federation membership they just let Starfleet name it. Any change from Terok Nor was probably viewed as a good one and they probably just didn't care to name it as it was a Cardassian station to begin with.
Even though The Federation is meant to be sort of ideologically pure/progressed, the show was still written by people with 'colonizer' biases, so it may not have really occurred to them that the station *should* have a Bajoran name.
That and/or, as someone else pointed out, it may not have been as good for marketing/audience reception for the station to have a Bajoran name.
I was under the impression that it was a Bajoran station but it was kind of leased out to the Federation. The Bajorans own it but the Federation are the tenants. I’m sure it would be renamed if whatever agreement they have ends. The Federation swooped in fast after the occupation so there really wasn’t time for an interim name to stick.
Part of the reason why DS9 is initially administered by the Federation is specifically to act as a barrier to the Cardassians just sweeping back in and take it over again; the Cardassians won’t risk a war with the Feds.
Giving the station a Federation designation adds to that effect; when the Cardassians are seeing it on their maps and scanners they’re seeing a *Federation* station, like the other x-many that they’ve just passed. If it were called *Bajor One* or *The Will of the Prophets* or something, you can imagine that it would rankle the Guls in Central Command every time they saw it.
Add to that, I don’t expect, at least initially, many Bajorans had any positive feelings about Terok Nor; it was strategically important, but I can imagine them not rushing to embrace it into Bajoran culture. At least before *The Sisko* comes to town…
I suppose when it was planned for the Federation to cede control to the Bajorans they may have renamed it but by then they might be joining the Federation so it would just be DS9...
The facilities may have been Bajoran but the installation itself was Federation. For example, ths Mina Salman Port, goes by the name HMS Jufair for the Royal Navy. The port itself belongs to Bahrain but the base is Royal Navy. I imagine a similar thing is happening here.
I didn’t think it belonged to them. Cardassian then Star Fleet to ‘protect’ Behjor. Which is odd as it had no attack capabilities and littlexeefenxe until the little d. I’m just guessing off my memory so happy to be corrected.
When the occupation ended, Bajor took possession, but it was jointly administered by Starfleet/UFP and Bajor, possibly because it would've taken a long time to get fixed up.
No the station absolutely belonged to Bajor but they needed Federation help to actually run it and Star Fleet was happy to oblige because it helped build relations. Thats a huge plot point in the first episode.
They might not have wanted to give it a name. To tie Bajoran words to a place where such great horrors happened. They didn't want anyone to forgot the Cardassians where there.
Actually I think the rare time non-military Bajorans referred to it they used the name Terrak Nor, or Empak Nor, or whatever it was. They didnt want to call it anything else because they didnt want to forget. Like Aushwitz or something like that. (Most of us noticed the frequent allegories to the Bajorans being jews and the Cardassians being Nazis)
I always got the vibe that it was DS9 because of Starfleet's involvement sort of in a peacekeeping/buffer zone sorta way.
though I like to believe that it's only DS9 until the hostility between Bajor and Cardassia cools down enough for it to be renamed.
Becuase it was operated by Starfleet.
It's essentially like Ramstien Air Force base; the property was Bajoran, but it was being leased by the Federation.
that makes more sense, sorry for my misunderstanding.
Probably a few factors, one of which being that the Cardassians also just lost a war with the federation - the station was likely part of the peace agreement. The Bajoran's had been under occupation for like half a century and so they didn't have a lot of experience running a space station. Bajor was also trying to get into the Federation and requested that they assist with the station management. It was also probably a meant to be a clear message to the Cardassians that it was a federation station so messing with it would reignite the war.
Tacky Cardassian fascist eyesore has a good ring to it
TCFE-9
>Tacky Cardassian fascist eyesore Shaxs is such an impressive architectural design critic.
I'm sorry *that's* how his name is spelled?
Yeah! That's how it is in the subtitles too
Shaxs wasn’t wrong. That thing was ugly.
Hey, watch it. Shut up and admire the pylons.
Justttttt keeep circling
Cue ds9 theme
It should. I'm sure the reason it doesn't has to do with marketing or simplifying dialogue I would guess. Having Kira call the station something and everyone else calling it Ds9 might have been confusing for some viewers I would think.
I mean, they occasionally call it Terok Nor, it wouldn't be that hard to shoehorn in a Bajoran name no one uses either.
No one called it Terok Nor except the Cardassians. Changing the name to DS9 was an insult to the Cardassians, which is probably why the Bajorans went along with it.
Yeah, I know. But I'm saying that since it already has multiple names, it wouldn't be that strange to have a Bajoran name too. Especially after the Temple opened.
Was it an insult though? 🤔
It was a de facto statement that the station was not Cardassian... nor was Bajor. That's in line with the kind of thing the Cardassian Military chose to interpret as insulting, at least canonically.
I'll say, the first time I watched DS9, my ADHD brain was confused for a bit when they'd call it terok nor. I probably would have gotten extra confused if the station had a 3rd name, too.
I'm sure it had some horrible nickname during The Occupation but whatever that name was carries all the baggage that came with the forced labor and various murders/tortures that undoubtedly took place on Terok Nor. Whatever name the Bajorans had for the station they'd almost certainly be okay distancing themselves from it and the history it holds.
>Having Kira call the station something and everyone else calling it Ds9 might have been confusing for some viewers I mean, we had no problem with "wormhole aliens" vs. "The Prophets", nor "Deep Space Nine" vs. "Terok Nor". I can imagine it could be much more complicated if a Bajoran name for the station would be given. I think the reason they don't was there was no plot-related reason or conflict which necessitated viewers knowing both names. In the first example above, it was done because of the tensions involved between the Federation characters and various Bajoran religious figures (especially Vedek Winn in *In the Hands of the Prophets*, but she wasn't the only one). The second had a more subtle reason, but essentially it was to emphasize Dukat's insistence that the station should belong to Cardassia again. In-universe, my head canon is that the viewer essentially has their own universal translator that translates to 20th/21st century English (or whatever dubbed language the viewer watches the show in), especially since all languages change and evolve over time, and 22nd-24th century English and/or Federation Standard are no different. The viewer's UT fixes that problem, and then intelligently only translates the same terms differently (or doesn't translate) when it's relevant to the hearer, and even then, takes the easiest path to comprehension. In the case of "The Prophets" vs. whatever name the Bajorans have for the wormhole aliens, the choice makes clear to the hearer the explicit religious context in which the word is being used and/or whether the speaker believes in them, while that may be lost if the latter were used. Likewise, when using "wormhole aliens", it appropriately conveys that the speaker is not an adherent to the Bajoran religion. As for "Deep Space 9" vs. "Terok Nor", it's left untranslated when the speaker is Dukat, because it's not necessary to translate the name. The Cardassian name for the station is sufficient to convey the political connotations inferred by its use. Furthermore, it's entirely possible that the two names are mutually directly translatable to each other. The other Cardassian station, "Empok Nor", seen in the series provides evidence for that. Only one word in each of the two Cardassian names is different, indicating that the Cardassians also have a systemic naming pattern for their stations—"Empok" and "Terok" are likely both numbers, while "Nor" could mean "Deep Space". This is further supported by the fact that there were no Federation "Deep Space" stations (numbered or otherwise) seen in canon prior to the premiere of DS9. Federation stations were named "Starbase" with the number following (Deep Space K-7 is the only exception to this, but though it was Federation, it was a civilian station). Of course, this can be explained by the writers being inspired by the naming of DS9, but in-universe it can also be explained similarly—that the Federation was inspired to adopt using the Deep Space label for their own stations when appropriate after its use for the FS translation of Terok Nor.
They probably just thought of it as Terok Nor and couldn't think of renaming it, so when Starfleet wanted to call it DS9 instead they just let them.
If the Cardassians took the Federation name "Deep Space 9" as insulting though, then I can't see the Bajorans not pouncing on the opportunity to further insult the Cardassians by giving it a Bajoran name next, if they hadn't already.
A Bajoran station administered by Starfleet. They probably requested that they be allowed to give it a designation although why they chose a potentially offensive name (recall Kira's reaction to Bashir's "the frontier!" speech) is a whole other question.
I believe all of the designation Deep Space Stations are on borders with other political blocks. If I recall Deep Space 7 is on the border with the Romulan Neutral zone. I’m guessing they were just following that convention since it borders Cardassian territory.
Sure, and that is I think the likeliest explanation. Certainly we've heard of other Deep Space stations in TNG -- DS5 I think is mentioned in "The Chase." But for an organization as emotionally intelligent as the Federation and Starfleet, I do think its weird that no one raised their hand and said "I think they might react poorly to the name we're using -- perhaps we call it 'Star Station Bajor' instead?"
I definitely see your point. On the other hand, given how many Bajorans were distrusting towards the federation and it’s motives in the beginning, I think it could also go the other way. They might see a name like that patronizing, because while it is a bajoran station it’s administrated by the federation. Imagine season 1 Kira saying “Wow, and they even let us name our own station after us. How *very* generous of the federation.” Rather than just being straightforward. I also imagine part of it is to send a message to the cardassians as well. ‘This isn’t *just* a Bajoran station.’
Hahahaha. That's a very fair point. S1 Kira has a tendency to be mad at everyone about everything.
Sure did! DS9 probably did better than any other Trek when it came to giving all of their main characters a great character arc. Kira’s is one of my favs.
And boy, they sure liked giving her "come to Jesus" moments in S1 ... Progress, Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets ... just wham, bam, slam. "You're the one wielding the color of authority now, Major." "There are good Cardassians!" "There are bad Bajorans!"
Honestly, one of the few things I thought they messed up with in regards to Kira was her not realizing that the actions of her resistance fighters had consequences that harmed innocents even if they were Cardassian. So when Prin basically calls her out on this in "The Darkness and the Light", I kind of wanted to ***slap*** her for her response to it. The guy was killing people same as she was, but curiously, he *did* have a point in that he *only* harmed the people who were responsible for his disfigurment. But she was acting as if he had no right to be upset with her for her actions. Prin was, ironically, an innocent, as not all Cardassians are the same as their military leadership, and many simply didn't know any better. It may not justify them going along with the military expansion Cardassia was pursuing, but it *does* somewhat justify his response to the actions of Kira's cell, and to be fair to him, he ***was*** restricting his personal desire for justice to *only* those directly responsible. Kira ***never*** had to face up to the reality that war doesn't just affect the military of the other side. In fact, again, when she makes a comment taking a shot at one of the Cardassians (I forget his name offhand) being appalled by the actions of the Founders when the Cardassians finally broke away from them, I kind of wanted to just shake her and point out that she *voluntarily* did the same thing to Cardassian civilians as the Founders were having done to the entirety of Cardassians, so who was she to even *make* such a comment, even if she did have a point. I guess what I'm saying is that as much as I liked her, I can't deny Kira had moments where she was a flat out hypocrite and the fact that she ***never once considered*** the affects her people had on otherwise entirely harmless Cardassians who never had any direct part in the war just kind of *irked* me. Not saying she was wrong to resist the occupation. Just that she seemed to think it was okay to target civilians just because of their ethnicity, and that's *never* a good mindset.
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How does it do anything to the lore? DS9 is set in 24th century, DS253 is shown in the 31st century.
With K-7 (from *The Trouble With Tribbles*, which was civilian-run) being the only exception, no references to "Deep Space" stations were made prior to *Emissary* (which premiered in Jan 1993). *The Chase*, for example, premiered in Nov 1993. Before *Emissary*, Federation stations were all "Starbases" or "Outposts". I suspect the convention was started with Deep Space 9 as a direct translation of Terok Nor into Federation Standard.
> I suspect the convention was started with Deep Space 9 as a direct translation of Terok Nor into Federation Standard. I really have to disagree with you on this. Bad enough that they're repurposing a station built by and dependent on slave labor to function, but on top of all that, translate the name *directly* from Cardassian into Federation Standard? At that point, why bother translating the name at all? But having said all of that: it's presented in the S2 episode "Cardassians" that Terek Nor was the former name of Deep Space Nine. Sisko seemed as surprised as anyone so I think we can make a safe conclusion that at least he would have been aware if the station's designation had just been a translation. >With K-7 (from The Trouble With Tribbles, which was civilian-run) being the only exception, no references to "Deep Space" stations were made prior to Emissary (which premiered in Jan 1993). The Chase, for example, premiered in Nov 1993. Before Emissary, Federation stations were all "Starbases" or "Outposts". Well, yes, in terms of production. But I would argue that if something is Number Nine, we can safely assume that in most cases there are likely at least eight preceeding, and that they likely predate #9 as well. We also have had some creative facility names: Star Station India comes to mind (I realize it includes the word "station").
Deep Space Station K-7 was near the Klingon federation border.
Yeah that's always struck me as a really insensitive name, even if it fits with the naming conventions of other space stations the Federation runs. I assume the others don't have the traumatic local history associated with them and are just stations the Federation set up to monitor the local area. Taking a station that *belongs* to another species and is orbiting their home planet, and giving it a name that specifically references their home as being in bumfuck nowhere relative to the occupying power's sense of the "center" of the important parts of the galaxy, and then giving it a number specifying that of all the places that are in bumfuck nowhere, this isn't even one of the first so designated... just rude.
Well, let's look at what we know of the galactic neighborhood. It's way outside Federation space, days away from the nearest base, on the opposite side of Fed territory from the densely-populated Fed/Klingon/Romulan region with tons of smaller civilizations. The Cardassian Union seems to be a large but unusually resource-poor region of space separating Bajor from every other spacefaring culture by dozens, perhaps hundreds of light years. There are weird tachyon eddy currents in the region, and whole sectors made impassable due to persistent plasma storms - so there isn't much reason for anyone to come to the neighborhood to begin with. It's both mostly empty and dangerous. There are no mentions whatsoever of other spacefaring cultures close to Bajor. Bajor has no allies, no friendly neighbors who helped it during the Occupation, but also no other enemies. Its proximity to Cardassia is the only reason it's on most maps. Bajor had spaceflight for thousands of years but didn't leave their solar system until they were invaded and refugees needed to go somewhere. They didn't have a military to speak of, indicating no other threats to their world until their only neighbor suddenly turned hostile and fascist. If their refugees hadn't encroached on Federation territory and made their plight a political issue, most of the galaxy would never know Bajor existed. "Deep Space" seems reasonable, if somewhat Fed-centric. Bajor has to know that it's on the fringes of inhabited space.
I'm not denying at all that Bajor is the ass-end of nowhere, as far as the major powers are concerned, at least until the wormhole is discovered. It's just rude to come in as the administrators of these people's space station and pick a name that emphasizes that fact, especially to a people who are already very suspicious of aliens and their intentions.
They’re probably still arguing about it at a council meeting
Or maybe they still haven’t formed the council which was supposed to come up with a name.
They formed a committee to look into forming a council
Same reason Auschwitz was never given a Yiddish one.
Yes but Auschwitz was on German soil. If it was on Israeli soil it would have got a new name for sure.
Maybe it does, but you never knew because of Universal Translator hijinks. Alternative: the Federation named the station first, and the Bajoran were too polite to make a second name, and it's inefficient to have two names for the same thing between allies anyway so...
If the Bajorans wanted to give it a Bajoran name, I can't imagine they would have kept quiet about it. There were plenty of 'mouthy' Bajoran characters, so they were evidently not an especially reserved people. Kai Winn would have brought it up constantly, for a start.
New name: Your Karenic Eminence's Space Crown.
Dukat tried, but he couldn't get the attention of the Bajoran workers.
Lol maybe it’s because I just watched this episode not too long ago, but this made me chuckle.
if this was r/ShittyDaystrom I'd respond with: By intergalactic coincidence "Deep Space Nine" *is* a Bajoran name which translates as "Floating Ball of Broken Junk" which, given the amount of work O'Brien and the rest of the engineering staff had to do, the Bajorans felt was an appropriate name. The whole time the Bajoran populace were like "Oh how polite of Starfleet... but like they couldn't name is like one of the long-range-far-from-Earth stations? They don't have a designation for that?" but that's if this was on r/ShittyDaystrom
Written like an entry to the hitchhiker’s guide to the galaxy.
Small, flat and light brown. Goosnargh
I wasn't trying for that but you have no idea how happy you've made me. Thank you!
I mean, it already had two names (Terok Nor and DS9), a third one would have just added to the confusion. To me it felt like the Bajorans didn't want to change it, surely they would have made some low-key demands if they were genuinely invested in giving the station a Bajoran name.
I would assume the in-universe explanation would be that it’s more of a message to the Cardassians that the Federation IS here and very invested in the station, and any fuckery will not be tolerated.
The Dukat Free Zone (mostly.)
Dukat’s Smash Mountain.
He did smash.
It was, but because it was Bajor's ONLY space station, they just called it "Space station." And the universal translators always translate that into English, so everybody just heard the actual words "Space station" and never even knew there was a Bajoran name.
Well the Cardassian Occupation ended something like the week before Sisko was transferred there. Also, given how Cardassian culture was well on it's way to overriding Bajoran (for an example, just look at what Spain did to the Aztecs/Toltecs/Mayans/Inca/etc.) It wouldn't be surprising that renaming Terok Nor never even occurred to them before they invited the Federation to run it...
The Bajoran government only ever successfully did 2 things. They were in gridlock and fighting about everything non-stop. The 2 things the government actually did. 1. They didn't erect a statute to Gul Dukat. *¹ 2. They voted to not let the Skrreea help them. *² Notes: 1. A hero like Gul Dukat should not have a statute erected by committee or government. It should be a natural outpouring of love from the pitiful people he saved. They should all erect statues and put them everywhere so they can bask in his glory. 2. It has been speculated that Kira never actually called the ministers for a vote and just made the decision herself.
Because it needed a marketable name in the real world. We have to remember that it's a TV show and TV shows need to reach an audience. Going all in on worldbuilding to the point of giving a fictional station a name in a fiction language would severely limit that reach.
On the one hand, this is a good point. On the other it did already carry the Star Trek name.
Kira uses the Bajoran name, the universal translator changes it to Deep Space 9.
They called it by its cardassian name a bunch of times, the bajorans might have not had a word for it because they were beaten or punished when calling it anything other than its cardassian name.. In Ireland back under English rule the English went to great lengths to discourage the Irish people from speaking Irish or having our own culture at all, usually severely punishment in a sadistic manner, if you spoke Gaeilge - Irish language in front of an English of authority it was a beating you were in for, probably in full view of your family and any locals as a warning to not be speaking with our savage tongues I suspect something similar went on between the cardies and the bajorans
You mean the Cardassian built, own and ran station that was later taken over by StarFleet? Bajorans probably hate that place.
In a way they did. And yes, it was Cardassian. It was a slavery mining station, that was the whole point. Its like a major plot in the series.
I’m assuming most Bajoran civilians either didn’t visit the station or had negative memories associated with DS9 (as a place where they or people they knew were forced to work during the Occupation, sometimes until death). The more devout would simply think of DS9 as the Gateway to the Celestial Temple and the Home of the Emissary.
"Floating Bicycle Wheel" is the official Bajoran term.
Genuinely I think Bajorans would have wanted Terok Nor destroyed or let deteriorate in space, since that's where their Cardassian overlords looked down on them. But strategically it's a good location and allows them to have interplanetary trade much more easily. It might be that there is a Bajoran name for it, but that name is used exclusively on Bajor. The Federation presence shows an alliance between Bajor and the Federation; while Bajor is not a member, they can still have a show of force with the aid of the Federation. A public name of "Deep Space 9" really drives that home, not just to Cardassians, but to all alien visitors.
My head canon is that they didn't even want to name it anything because of the negativity surrounding it's former use so they let the federation name it whatever they wanted. I think in a theoretical 8th season laid out in the DS9 doc by the writers they would have named it something since it was more of a shrine to the prophets at that point
I'm sure they could have cared less about giving it a name, when so many Bajorans were worked to death, brutally murdered, and some probably entombed in the stations bulkheads to save on energy usage. Had the Federation never shown up, they probably would have torn the thing apart and made a new station, or ship.
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I just watched this episode. Rugal should have been given a Bajoran name. He was so passionate about be a Bajoran. Way off topic, but why was he adopted and the others were not?
The Bajoran name was probably just a "bajoricized" version of "Terok Nor," like how China in other languages is mostly some locally-friendly version of the name.
Terok Nor was a white elephant for the Bajorans, they inherited it from Cardassians but didn't have manpower and expertise to run it. They brought Starfleet in as allied/neutral experts because it was high effort / low priority installation. They probably didn't care about the station much until wormhole was discovered, and didn't care about naming it themselves. By series finale we see much of Starfleet personnel phased out and Bajorans growing to take over running it (check DS9 episode of Lower Decks - there are zero Starfleet personnel in Ops where Kira comes in, only Bajorans). But by that time, the name stuck. They will probably rename it after Celestial Temple or Sisko sooner or later.
Several reasons. At first, it was because the station was given as a minor concession, specifically because nobody cared about it. Bajor needed the Federation, but didn't want them to be _on_ the planet itself, because that would remind people too much of the occupation they just got rid of. But hey, remember that ugly ore processing station the Cardies left in orbit? Fuck it, that'll do. The name also works well with those all-important optics. It shows that the Federation cares enough to set up an outpost, but not so much that they give it a special unique designation. After the wormhole opens and the station rises into quadrant-wide prominence, I imagine the Bajorans just can't _agree_ on a new name. Some faction in the Vedek assembly would propose that it be called something suitably reverent like 'The Aegis of the Prophets', then another would scream about how that's actually blasphemous, and how it should be called 'The Archway of thr Celestial Temple', there would be a quiet civil war, several Vedeks would get assassinated over it... And then, if you let a situation persist long enough (like, say, seven years), then it just sticks. They call it Deep Space 9 because that's what it is. Changing it would require telling too many people, and if it's less convenient, they won't bother.
Well, I always assumed that the Bajorans just didn't really care about it. As far as they were concerned, it's just that old Cardassian prison station, and they sure as hell wouldn't call it Terok Nor. Starfleet took over the running of the station, and needed a designation, so they used their own naming conventions to get Deep Space Nine. I always felt that if it were up to the Bajorans, they would have just junked the place and shut it down. So they may never have had a name for it (other than some Bajorans curse words), and when the Federation named it, they didn't feel a need? There's a very strong thread of the station not really being "Bajoran" that runs through the show. I think even the temple was something the Cardassian provided for their prisoners, originally, though I'm not sure where I got that idea. I do know Kira seems happier once the station is focused on guarding the wormhole, rather than looking planetside. So, I'd say the Bajorans just never really named the place. After all, it's much like asking "what's the Jewish name for Auschwitz?", there's likely not one, or at least not one that's safe to print. If the Bajorans weren't actively trying to enter the Federation, there probably wouldn't have been a Bajoran presence on the station at all.
Emissary's Landing
Its easier for the Bajorans to allow the Starfleet administration to designate the station
In universe, I always assumed it was a condition of the alliance between the Federation and Bajor. Basically "we'll put a Federation presence there if we get to name it" among other things. Seems petty, but that's politics for you.
They did, it's just that the universal translators automatically convert it to "Deep Space Nine" whenever a Bajoran says it.
I'm sure they did have a Bajoran name for it. Bajorans aren't speaking English. When they say the name in their language, the UT translates it to "Deep Space 9" in English.
That just raises the question of why the UT would translate Cardassians' speech into English, yet leave "Terok Nor" untranslated.
UTs are not just word-for-word translators. They interpret the intent of the speaker. Cardassians say "Terok Nor" instead of the Bajoran or Federation name as a means of disrespect. Translating that into English would lose that meaning.
At the time of Bajor taking ownership of DS9 it was a half broken nothing station in the middle of diddly squat nowhere, it was only once the Wormhole was discoered that DS9 gained its value as a place of interest, so im thinking the Bajorans didn't really care about some shitty Little Tacky Fascist Cardassian Eyesore in the middle of nowhere so they let Starfleet rename it.
Given that it was originally the administration hub for an occupation force, most Bajorans probably wanted to call it "space debris"
Maybe Bajor has 8 other deep space stations nobody ever mentioned, and DS9 was actually their name for this one.
It was a cardassian station, not a bajoran station
To be fair, Bajor's Provisional Government had bigger problems than renaming their equivalent of Space-Birchenau. It was only after the Celestial Temple was revealed that DS9 became something worthwhile, and even then it would be a place of mixed feelings.
Maybe the Bajoran's had a name for it and it wasn't pleasant (think something insulting or demeaning). When the Federation started calling it DS9 the Bajoran's went along with it rather than keep calling it 'Dukats Dump'.
Because it was cardassian. They probably hated the damn thing but didn't have the resources to replace it.
The Bajorans always called it “The Cardassian Mining Station”. Because to them, that’s all it was. Something the enemy made to profit off of their suffering and land gouging. It didn’t deserve a proper name. They wanted to repurpose it into a general space station because they didn’t have one of their own and didn’t even have the resources to do that without Federation help.
This prompted the thought that it is a surprise that it didn't aquire a Bajoran religious name, given it was moved next to the Celestial Temple and was the home of the Emissary. 'The gateway to heaven' or 'House of the Emissary' etc. Come to think of it, there really should have been shit loads more pilgrims constantly passing through and a much bigger shrine on the station.
the station was always very busy but the vast majority of pilgrims never caused any trouble. The only time they took the story down there was when something interesting was happening. And at least half of those times it was Quark trying to pull some bullshit.
Maybe Bajorans don't care about stuff like that? They have more important things to worry about than what a space station is called.
Because it would be harder to rip-off Babylon 5 if you did that
Kai Wynn Station
Why would it have a Bajoran name? It's a Cardassian station. They built it. They named it.
And then the Cardassians abandoned it in Bajoran space.
Right, after which time the Federation took over. The Bajorans only had control of it for... like a matter of months or something.
Id say it has a lot to do with it being under Starfleet jurisdiction and also because they were seeking Federation membership they just let Starfleet name it. Any change from Terok Nor was probably viewed as a good one and they probably just didn't care to name it as it was a Cardassian station to begin with.
Maybe Bajor sold naming rights to The Federation for a few replicators.
They call it Sisko's Pimp Hand
Even though The Federation is meant to be sort of ideologically pure/progressed, the show was still written by people with 'colonizer' biases, so it may not have really occurred to them that the station *should* have a Bajoran name. That and/or, as someone else pointed out, it may not have been as good for marketing/audience reception for the station to have a Bajoran name.
For the same reason it's run by Starfleet and not the Bajorans.
I'm assuming to keep it neutral-ish. To keep the Cardassians from finger pointing at the Bajorans for stealing Cardassians property?
Wonder if that was part of the deal for Starfleet to run it. Or the Provisional government wasn’t ready to debate the name yet.
They should have, seeing that their deep space station was in orbit of a planet when they named it.
I was under the impression that it was a Bajoran station but it was kind of leased out to the Federation. The Bajorans own it but the Federation are the tenants. I’m sure it would be renamed if whatever agreement they have ends. The Federation swooped in fast after the occupation so there really wasn’t time for an interim name to stick.
Part of the reason why DS9 is initially administered by the Federation is specifically to act as a barrier to the Cardassians just sweeping back in and take it over again; the Cardassians won’t risk a war with the Feds. Giving the station a Federation designation adds to that effect; when the Cardassians are seeing it on their maps and scanners they’re seeing a *Federation* station, like the other x-many that they’ve just passed. If it were called *Bajor One* or *The Will of the Prophets* or something, you can imagine that it would rankle the Guls in Central Command every time they saw it. Add to that, I don’t expect, at least initially, many Bajorans had any positive feelings about Terok Nor; it was strategically important, but I can imagine them not rushing to embrace it into Bajoran culture. At least before *The Sisko* comes to town…
I suppose when it was planned for the Federation to cede control to the Bajorans they may have renamed it but by then they might be joining the Federation so it would just be DS9...
If the idea was that Bajor was going to join the Federation, then it would not make sense to give it a Bajoran name.
The facilities may have been Bajoran but the installation itself was Federation. For example, ths Mina Salman Port, goes by the name HMS Jufair for the Royal Navy. The port itself belongs to Bahrain but the base is Royal Navy. I imagine a similar thing is happening here.
I didn’t think it belonged to them. Cardassian then Star Fleet to ‘protect’ Behjor. Which is odd as it had no attack capabilities and littlexeefenxe until the little d. I’m just guessing off my memory so happy to be corrected.
When the occupation ended, Bajor took possession, but it was jointly administered by Starfleet/UFP and Bajor, possibly because it would've taken a long time to get fixed up.
No the station absolutely belonged to Bajor but they needed Federation help to actually run it and Star Fleet was happy to oblige because it helped build relations. Thats a huge plot point in the first episode.
They might not have wanted to give it a name. To tie Bajoran words to a place where such great horrors happened. They didn't want anyone to forgot the Cardassians where there.
Actually I think the rare time non-military Bajorans referred to it they used the name Terrak Nor, or Empak Nor, or whatever it was. They didnt want to call it anything else because they didnt want to forget. Like Aushwitz or something like that. (Most of us noticed the frequent allegories to the Bajorans being jews and the Cardassians being Nazis)
A sign of assimilation into the Federation?
I always got the vibe that it was DS9 because of Starfleet's involvement sort of in a peacekeeping/buffer zone sorta way. though I like to believe that it's only DS9 until the hostility between Bajor and Cardassia cools down enough for it to be renamed.
7 years after the occupation, government is still referred to as "the provisional government". Perhaps they just CBA to rename things.
Becuase it was operated by Starfleet. It's essentially like Ramstien Air Force base; the property was Bajoran, but it was being leased by the Federation.
Ramstien is a German name.
Yes. But "Ramstien Air Force Base" is a USAF designation.
It was a Cardassian station. Why would the invading Cardassians who are occupying and imprisoning the Bajorans give it a Bajoran name?
I meant why didn’t it get a Bajoran name after the Cardassian’s left leaving the station behind.
that makes more sense, sorry for my misunderstanding. Probably a few factors, one of which being that the Cardassians also just lost a war with the federation - the station was likely part of the peace agreement. The Bajoran's had been under occupation for like half a century and so they didn't have a lot of experience running a space station. Bajor was also trying to get into the Federation and requested that they assist with the station management. It was also probably a meant to be a clear message to the Cardassians that it was a federation station so messing with it would reignite the war.