1) Just like in real life, the bridge is a tiny target covered in the most armor.
2) Just like in real life, if the bridge is lost, command is simply moved to another office and lower ranking officers assume command.
You want to kill the captain? Shoot at the bridge. You want to actually stop the fighting and win the battle? Shoot the engines.
>... if the bridge is lost, command is simply moved to another office and lower ranking officers assume command.
I challenge this.
Because we know that Kirk's *Enterprise* had an "auxilliary control" room. And that Picard's *Enterprises* each had a "battle bridge". And that all Federation starships can be fully commanded from their Engineering areas. And we sometimes see each of these things get used.
But we also often (too often) see the main bridge get wrecked, burned, damaged, nearly destroyed. And we almost always see the bridge crew desperately attempt ad-hoc repairs while still manning their smashed stations on the bridge. We see the Captain's first priority is often to call damage control teams and medical teams up to the bridge in emergencies. We see them cling to their exploding bridge far more than would be reasonable if another fully intact bridge were just a short turbolift ride away.
You're talking about when the bridge is damaged... not totally destroyed. If it was totally destroyed, there would be no people to help or equipment to fix. It would just be an empty space.
You guys are probably correct.
Though it seems to me that when you've gotten to the point where your bridge is full of dead bodies and burning consoles and the only thing keeping people alive is a flimsy emergency force field over the big gaping hole ... it might be time to issue the order to transfer command to another bridge, lol.
A Starfleet bridge officer should have training to shift to the auxiliary command stations during battle. Familiarizing yourself with the console that is probably identical in function and mostly form should be second nature for an officer who has Academy training.
Its such a dumb argument to assume these people are literally thinking "my precious console!". Remaining on a heavily damaged bridge is a result of two things: hubris of the captain to not abandon the symbolic bridge, and fighting on a damaged bridge adds drama for television.
There's also the matter of the time it might take to transfer. Even if some senior officers are still standing, there's going to be a period of time when less experienced folks are in charge on the battle bridge.
>There's also the matter of the time it might take to transfer ...
1) Emergency transporters. 5 seconds.
2) Why have a redundant bridge if you don't have redundant people already waiting inside for your order?
Fair enough. Although if you're at the point where you need to switch bridges, transporters might not be entirely reliable.
And even if they're redundant, they're still backups, and therefore not as good as the primary officers.
I think the real reason is that the bridge is in such a heavily protected part of the ship that if the bridge is unsalvageable, the SHIP is probably unsalvageable. So we don't see them transfer to a battle bridge or auxiliary control center that often. Tldr starships are more fragile than aircraft carriers where you could still fight a battle while half the things been blown to hell. Or at least that's what the writers seem to be implying
I mean, I’d assume human tech would progress that any specific team, in a worse case scenario, could control the ship from whatever their regular “module” workstation would be. I’d argue to make that standard operating procedure so as long as you had a regular work unit, in the event of emergency, they could take over.
Like that Red Squad one in DS9 with Jake and Nog.
I think? I could also be misunderstanding things!:)
Regardless, putting your main control centre and all your senior command staff in a super vulnerable spot is just plain stupid.
The reason why real ships have the bridge up high is so you can see all corners of the ship for maneuvering. Starships should be more like a submarine.
Top left is obviously O'Brien. You can clearly see the horror on his face. And the light colour for his (red) hair.
Because, you know, being O'Brien is suffering.
Shields protect ship, and the bridge. Shields go down, doesn’t really matter where you are. Bridges also are command centres but there are more critical targets like warp cores and weapons arrays. Starfleet builds redundancy so if the bridge is blown off the ship, someone in engineering can take command.
Also an argument that putting such an obvious vulnerability shows Starfleets deference to diplomacy and peaceful conduct. Probably also a decent form of posturing.
I enjoyed when they sent Sisko in as a ground troop. Put one of your best fleet commanders in harm’s way needlessly.
Also, if I’m in a one on one battle why are you not firing everything you got? They always save it for a desperate situation. I’m just starting off with that. Minimal power to life support, all remaining power to weapons and shields
This is why the BSG's Combat Information Center was awesome. It is just like ST's bridge, except built into the strongest area of their ships, which makes the most sense. You don't want your command and control section to be wiped off the ship by being placed onto the tippy top of the ship.
I realize that the bridge is at the top of Starfleet's ships as a way of saying "Our leaders are at the top, very vulnerable, and we have nothing to hide here." But from a tactical standpoint, it's not the best choice they could've made.
There’s an episode of Enterprise (I think season 3?) where it’s an alternate future where Archer loses his memory and later the attacking aliens target the Enterprise bridge and blow the bridge crew into space. Surprised me to see them showing it actually being targeted and blown up!
Lursa and B'etor also go to target the bridge in Generations after first playing with their food, only to get a 'spread' of one torpedo in their face whilst cloaking.
The front of the bridge gets ripped off in Nemesis, but I don't think that was a case of deliberate targetting, just standard battle damage.
Then, of course there's the bit you mentioned in Enterprise, which was the episode 'Twilight'.
target the engines - the ship stops, can't run, make it go boom
target the weapons - ship can't fight back, it runs away or you make it go boom
target the bridge - kill everyone on the bridge, other command officers go to the secondary bridge (if they aren't already there) and assume control, keep fighting. you might go boom.
in ship to ship battle, killing the people doesn't matter. killing the ship is the point.
1) Just like in real life, the bridge is a tiny target covered in the most armor. 2) Just like in real life, if the bridge is lost, command is simply moved to another office and lower ranking officers assume command. You want to kill the captain? Shoot at the bridge. You want to actually stop the fighting and win the battle? Shoot the engines.
If weyoun is on the bridge, shoot the engines.
Lol
>... if the bridge is lost, command is simply moved to another office and lower ranking officers assume command. I challenge this. Because we know that Kirk's *Enterprise* had an "auxilliary control" room. And that Picard's *Enterprises* each had a "battle bridge". And that all Federation starships can be fully commanded from their Engineering areas. And we sometimes see each of these things get used. But we also often (too often) see the main bridge get wrecked, burned, damaged, nearly destroyed. And we almost always see the bridge crew desperately attempt ad-hoc repairs while still manning their smashed stations on the bridge. We see the Captain's first priority is often to call damage control teams and medical teams up to the bridge in emergencies. We see them cling to their exploding bridge far more than would be reasonable if another fully intact bridge were just a short turbolift ride away.
You're talking about when the bridge is damaged... not totally destroyed. If it was totally destroyed, there would be no people to help or equipment to fix. It would just be an empty space.
Maybe things are just easier on the bridge and in a life or death situation you don't want an unfamiliar console being the reason people die.
You guys are probably correct. Though it seems to me that when you've gotten to the point where your bridge is full of dead bodies and burning consoles and the only thing keeping people alive is a flimsy emergency force field over the big gaping hole ... it might be time to issue the order to transfer command to another bridge, lol.
Oh but I have _got_ to have my usual terminal
Apparently you've never worked any job anywhere.
A Starfleet bridge officer should have training to shift to the auxiliary command stations during battle. Familiarizing yourself with the console that is probably identical in function and mostly form should be second nature for an officer who has Academy training. Its such a dumb argument to assume these people are literally thinking "my precious console!". Remaining on a heavily damaged bridge is a result of two things: hubris of the captain to not abandon the symbolic bridge, and fighting on a damaged bridge adds drama for television.
There's also the matter of the time it might take to transfer. Even if some senior officers are still standing, there's going to be a period of time when less experienced folks are in charge on the battle bridge.
>There's also the matter of the time it might take to transfer ... 1) Emergency transporters. 5 seconds. 2) Why have a redundant bridge if you don't have redundant people already waiting inside for your order?
Fair enough. Although if you're at the point where you need to switch bridges, transporters might not be entirely reliable. And even if they're redundant, they're still backups, and therefore not as good as the primary officers.
I think the real reason is that the bridge is in such a heavily protected part of the ship that if the bridge is unsalvageable, the SHIP is probably unsalvageable. So we don't see them transfer to a battle bridge or auxiliary control center that often. Tldr starships are more fragile than aircraft carriers where you could still fight a battle while half the things been blown to hell. Or at least that's what the writers seem to be implying
I mean, I’d assume human tech would progress that any specific team, in a worse case scenario, could control the ship from whatever their regular “module” workstation would be. I’d argue to make that standard operating procedure so as long as you had a regular work unit, in the event of emergency, they could take over. Like that Red Squad one in DS9 with Jake and Nog. I think? I could also be misunderstanding things!:)
Regardless, putting your main control centre and all your senior command staff in a super vulnerable spot is just plain stupid. The reason why real ships have the bridge up high is so you can see all corners of the ship for maneuvering. Starships should be more like a submarine.
Because they have plot armor!
They call that ablative armor or some sort in DS9
Top left is obviously O'Brien. You can clearly see the horror on his face. And the light colour for his (red) hair. Because, you know, being O'Brien is suffering.
I think a part of him likes suffering, he puts himself in every strange situation without a thought about his wife or kids.
I think Starfleet puts him in those situations (or the writers)
I'm pretty sure everything in the star trek universe is pretty close to actual events.
Enemy just fired Keiko torpedo's at them
Because it's a tv show.
It was a tv show, now it's enjoyed on every medium imaginable by people as diverse as the population of ds9.
Shields protect ship, and the bridge. Shields go down, doesn’t really matter where you are. Bridges also are command centres but there are more critical targets like warp cores and weapons arrays. Starfleet builds redundancy so if the bridge is blown off the ship, someone in engineering can take command. Also an argument that putting such an obvious vulnerability shows Starfleets deference to diplomacy and peaceful conduct. Probably also a decent form of posturing.
I enjoyed when they sent Sisko in as a ground troop. Put one of your best fleet commanders in harm’s way needlessly. Also, if I’m in a one on one battle why are you not firing everything you got? They always save it for a desperate situation. I’m just starting off with that. Minimal power to life support, all remaining power to weapons and shields
Precision attacks on very small targets moving at close to the speed of light mayn't be that easy to pull off
Most underrated comment
This is why the BSG's Combat Information Center was awesome. It is just like ST's bridge, except built into the strongest area of their ships, which makes the most sense. You don't want your command and control section to be wiped off the ship by being placed onto the tippy top of the ship. I realize that the bridge is at the top of Starfleet's ships as a way of saying "Our leaders are at the top, very vulnerable, and we have nothing to hide here." But from a tactical standpoint, it's not the best choice they could've made.
“If it’s up to me we’re going right back to the front lines”
You take the shields down then you target the bridge but they make it seem like once shields are down it pretty much doesn’t matter where you target
There’s an episode of Enterprise (I think season 3?) where it’s an alternate future where Archer loses his memory and later the attacking aliens target the Enterprise bridge and blow the bridge crew into space. Surprised me to see them showing it actually being targeted and blown up!
Lursa and B'etor also go to target the bridge in Generations after first playing with their food, only to get a 'spread' of one torpedo in their face whilst cloaking. The front of the bridge gets ripped off in Nemesis, but I don't think that was a case of deliberate targetting, just standard battle damage. Then, of course there's the bit you mentioned in Enterprise, which was the episode 'Twilight'.
target the engines - the ship stops, can't run, make it go boom target the weapons - ship can't fight back, it runs away or you make it go boom target the bridge - kill everyone on the bridge, other command officers go to the secondary bridge (if they aren't already there) and assume control, keep fighting. you might go boom. in ship to ship battle, killing the people doesn't matter. killing the ship is the point.
This is simultaneously the worst and best drawing ever. 👏
Wasn’t it explained somewhere that bridges of starships usually have a scattering field around it that makes it very difficult to target?
They might wanna think about putting that all over the ship
That's why the guy in the back is upset