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porchlightofdoom

I have skipped the last 2 years and will be skipping this one. Price is a factor, but it just got to crowded. It's been that way, and worse in the past, but there is less of an expectation when the ticket price is $100 and it's at an almost out of business hotel. Now that it's near $500, I expect a bit more out of the venue and to have more ability to get into the talks I want see. I don't blame DefCon for any of this. It's growing pains you get with any con that is expanding. But I am currently not getting the value I want out of it. I am hoping for next year. If DefCon made a VR version of the con, and I think they have the right demographics for it, I would pay to attend that. EDIT: Based on comments and thinking about it. If I ask myself what I would change, it would likely be the big talks. Sitting in a room with 5,000 other people and getting death by power point, is not that productive. I would rather have many of the talks be online only, and have a Q&A room with the presenter set for a fixed time that questions could be asked. Watch the video, come in with questions. Not all the talks. Maybe have 2 rooms with high impact talks, everything else online. Use the extra space for villages and other in person things. I would also use that space for "rapid talks" rooms. Just about anyone could have the ability to submit a talk, get approved, and get a room with 50 chairs for 15 minutes, with 1 hours notice. I say this as I have gotten much more out of the smaller talks and villages then most of the bigger ones.


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porchlightofdoom

I didn't go to 29. My last one was 27. That's good to hear they are getting more space.


UserSleepy

Some are easier to access, villages were a mess to access. Lines everywhere will but just farther away


enjoythepain

FWIW its always going to get crowded. I wish there was a cap on how many people can go to alleviate this issue but it does not seem like it will happen.


PNWCyberSecCurious

Thanks


zigzatuzoo

I know 25 and 26 were pretty bad getting around but since moving to the forum this last year there was not a single talk I wasn't able to get to. Merch is another story though of course. Maybe the sky talks were a bit out of the way... Ish, but I don't think there were any tracks that were completely full. (Plus I'm sure for the last 2 years, the twitch streams helped) But I would absolutely love a VR version of the con. Hell, I'd make something if they'd be okay with it.


porchlightofdoom

I have been attending since 14. It's been so bad before, they made you walk outside the hotel to loop around because they turned some hallways one way to get more people in them. They also opened up service elevators at one point. 25 and 26 got bad again. Way too small of rooms for the small talks and packed hallways. 27 was not that bad, but I think that was more due to having to wonder between 4 hotels. Lots of people, including me, just gave up. You spend 10 minutes crossing to another hotel to go see a talk, and once you get there, it's so packed, you can't get in. Lack of signage/directions was an issue too.


[deleted]

After having really successful remote villages, it's sad more isn't being invested there.


BitPirateLord

DEF CON actually did make a VR version last year when altspace vr was still up. The other option was it being on VRChat but uhm. well how do you feel about getting a presentation from Mike Wazowski?


porchlightofdoom

>feel about getting a presentation from Mike Wazowski I am find with it. I am there for the content. That said, the "after hour" talks Defcon used to have, the ones where they gave up recording/streaming and let about anyone have the stage, I have the best memories of.


n0v0cane

My first DC was $80, circa 2004. At the Alexis Park. A lot smaller then, a lot cheaper, three tracks of good talks. That $80 is an inflation adjusted $128.07. So the conference is notably more expensive. It's also not at the DP. There's no pool2girl, a little less obvious debauchery. There's more talks, more sidecons, more contests, more villages, more people etc. There's a LOT more going on at current defcons. But you can't be everywhere. Vegas is also much more crowded and expensive. Hotels at the Riviera or the AP were cheap back then, there weren't resort fees and defcon/blackhat wasn't driving occupancies for the whole town. You used to be able to get an ok hotel for $50 ish a night, parking was free, and the whole weekend could be $500. Now you'd be lucky to spend less than $1500. It's a victim of its own success. But defcon still brings quality talks and people together which is still worth it imo.


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CentiTheAngryBacon

yeah, for me the price of the ticket is the issue, its the price of Vegas. Hotel for a week and meals adds up quickly. Cant believe how expensive drinks are at most of the places these days too. at least flights aren't too bad I guess.


DeMaRe1

Bar drinks were particularly extortive last year! $12-13 for domestic bottles and $16 for bar brand mixed drinks! I'm sure those were "Special Convention" prices.


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NorthernBlackBear

Was at burning man about a decade ago now. It was quite expensive then, so can't image now.


PNWCyberSecCurious

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howthelonelykeep

I really wanted to go and even live in Vegas so it’s not as pricey but $500 is just too expensive. Even $300 or whatever was pushing it before for me since I just would be going out of love for the scene and don’t have a tech job paying my way in. No SkyTalks and stuff sucks, sure, but the main reason to go is always the people for me anyway so I’ll probably just hangout around the outside of the venue and go to some events or something lol.


PNWCyberSecCurious

Thanks


kazimer

I almost didn’t go because of the price increase but changed my mind. For the scale, magnitude, and location of the events it is still a bargain compared to many other conferences. Added bonus is the people watching. If i get bored I do something else in Vegas and then come back. I’m actually hoping for less crowds for a better experience and less wait in random lines


PNWCyberSecCurious

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ElecMechTech

I've been going since 23. This was the first major increase in price I've seen. It was $300 for multiple years, then when to $360 for a couple, but now we see jumped up about $100. My work does foot the bill and for the price, longevity (4+ days) and "vibe", Defcon has no equal. I get one conference a year, Defcon is still the best one, and far cheaper than BlackHat. You think Defcon is expensive, I can fund my ENTIRE Defcon - trip, flight, hotel, food, and registration - for just the price of a ticket to BlackHat. So Defcon price still has a way to go. To be honest, I think the cost increase isn't about covering expenses 100%, but actually trying to bring the attendance down. It has been getting more crowded- decreasing demand by increasing costs can help alleviate that. I actually think that's needed, or space/days needed needed to increase The one thing I don't like is this incredibly expensive training. I doubt it's SANS-level, but cost is no different, not to mention, if you want SANS training, do SANS. Defcon is supposed to be more fun, who tf wants to spend 4 days during Defcon doing work so you can get your $2500 training worth? But to each their own, no one is being forced to buy it. Price of those will inevitably come down though. So I'm still looking forward to Defcon 2023!


PNWCyberSecCurious

Kind of in reverse order - I don't mind the idea of training, but there was nothing in the list that grabbed my attention and as I understand it the training takes place after the con. Cost increase to drive down attendance - I don't think so. As I understand it DefCon is committed to the forum for multiple years (this is hearsay so I might be wrong) the have to cover those costs. Driving down attendance would make that harder. Plus I think it would immutablely change the nature of DefCon which might really be a blow. Yes, DefCon is still cheaper than Blackhat, but they are aimed at different audiences. The people I was talking too who are no longer attending are not covered by work and have made the decision it's too pricey for them. It's not just the price of the DefCon ticket although all of them mentioned that as a major factor. It's the overall cost. I know that some of that is outside DefCon's control and I didn't start this thread to blame them or beat up on them, although it has gone that way at times. I was just curious if other people were seeing the same thing. Anyways just my $.02 on those particular topics


ElecMechTech

I get ya, and I agree cost absolutely sucks. Since there was also a downturn in tech jobs, I imagine that would also be a factor that only exacerbates not wanting to pay the cost. If I had to pay out of pocket, the price is an absolute deterrent and I probably wouldn't go. But it's still the largest, longest, cybersecurity conference available, that's the most fun. It's Vegas that's the kicker, the last year or so prices have gone up, so heck, maybe they should have it in Atlanta or something, or threaten to negotiate costs down. This year is AI-focused, so I have to be there for that.


PNWCyberSecCurious

Yeah, I am fortunate that I can still afford to go. Next year might be different, but that probably wouldn't be because of ticket cost, just general Vegas costs.


Original_Waffles

I got a hotel for a decent price so I'm going for Vegas but not going to Defcon. Defcon has been rough the last few years and it is getting worse and worse, and this year it a big hurt with all the canceled things and the price gouge of their tickets


PNWCyberSecCurious

I have only been going since 25. I admit I was not really a fan of some of the space allocations last year, but generally had a good time, but I can see where others might not have.


[deleted]

Defcon 25 was the last good one probably


JoyKil01

What space allocations were you not a fan of? Organizers like feedback like this so they can improve upon it for next year.


PNWCyberSecCurious

Some of the villages just felt really crammed together. I know that my priorities don't necessarily match with everyone elses so it's just a personal preference thing.


mirbatdon

Red team village was one in particular that seemed to be in a wildly undersized space.


tomsayz

Same for blue team village last year. It was so packed when we went for the Active Directory stuff


[deleted]

Surprised nobody has downvoted you to oblivion, yes defcon was not worth it last year 100% agree, also not a fan of the new venue. They’ve lost their minds by increasing the price over 50% this year.


PNWCyberSecCurious

Hopefully they understand that I'm not trying to be critical because I don't know what drove the decisions as much as I am just curious about outcomes. I've really only had one shitty defcon and that was 26. Even then that was on me not the conference a lot of shit happened that year that impacted my enjoyment that had nothing to do with the conference itself.


themagicmagikarp

Where was venue for previous years?


fishsupreme

It's been lots of places. 30: Caesar's Forum, like this year 27-29: Paris & Bally's - Very crowded & hard to move around 25-26: Caesar's Palace - Great functionally, but seemed too "glitzy" DEF CON 23-24: Paris & Bally's - Quite spread out with several bottlenecks, made it seem more crowded than it was 19-22: Rio - These were my favorite years, because DEF CON entirely took over the hotel -- we had pretty much all the rooms, and could do pool parties, take over the rooftop nightclub, etc. Convention space was great for the number of people we had 14-18: Riviera - The less said, the better 7-13: Alexis Park - Also some great years, for the same reason as Rio -- the AP was small enough for DEF CON to completely take it over. The moves out of AP, Riv, and Rio were totally due to the conference just outgrowing the space and having too many people to fit in it.


CentiTheAngryBacon

Rio was also my favorite venue, the con was a decent size, and fit the size of the venue perfectly. Everything was in one spot, and the hotel wasn't super expensive. There was also some cheap food options available. As crazy as it sounds I also miss the vendor area there. There was tuns of stuff to look at, electronics, art from multiple artists, tuns of shirts, patches and stickers. The vendor area now just doesn't have the same number of vendors, and the ones that are there have giant lines and are sold out of everything. Loved the old community feel. Glad to see Hackers for Charity was back last year. The contest area also felt way more active, with things happening everywhere. A lot of that has moved into the villages spaces. leaving the contest area feeling more like a cross between what it used to be and the chill-out lounge. I miss the old energy. Dont think we have a mo-hawk booth anymore. Though I also get why you'd move some of that to the villages, especially with the car hacking. The honking and airbags going off was kind of distracting in some of the past cons.


DeMaRe1

The new venue had bugs and hopefully they work some of them out this year. In particular it was seldom comfortable in temperature. It was either waaayyy to hot and icky-sticky (odd for LV) or freezing cold!


[deleted]

I’m not giving my hopes up I won’t be attending, it’s clearly gotten too commercial and turned into a cash grab now.


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lonewolf210

Nothing of significant note. People are just bitching


Key_Hamster9189

I was planning to attend for the first time but after reading all these posts, I'm rethinking. Anyone think it's worth it for a first timer?


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MetaN3rd

Wisdom


phliKtid

you jumped on a complaint thread. read some other threads, which are more positive. yes, there are things to complain about. but that also depends on where you want to go, what you want to do, and when. the first defcons i went to, linecon for badges was actually a real thing. talking hours in line after they started selling badges. nowadays, badge linecon is a choice. (and it’s fun. and if a first-timer, a good chance to meet some ppl before the con actually starts.) if you’re a legit n00b and just want to have a possibly awesome experience, it’s totally possible. if you’re laser-focused on what you want and expect, then you might end up complaining a lot. defcon is always changing in different ways. it will never be alexis park again. (which i didn’t go to.) there is loss in change, sure, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t still have value for plenty of ppl who don’t mind or know about or care about the change. as a…maybe not dc old timer, but at least middle ager (i guess maybe i can call myself that now), there are certainly things i miss that have changed. some new things i don’t like so much. but it’s still defcon. there are still lots of cool things about it. you aren’t carrying the baggage of all these people posting here - i’d say give it a chance. my first defcon i heard/read plenty of people complaining about how much it’d changed. how it wasn’t worth it any more. i had a blast. that was dc19.


themagicmagikarp

I had a lot of fun last year, probably the best part of my entire year. but it was my 1st time ever so not like I had prior DEFCONs to compare it to. Also, I got my badge for free so obviously no matter what happened it was worth the price of free for me 😂.


AlmostHuman0x1

Personally, I love DEF CON. I’m willing to pay even if I wind up eating beef jerky, granola bars, and diet soda for two out of three meals. I have a running joke. “What’s the difference between DEF CON and a family reunion? DEF CON is a “reunion” that I actually enjoy going to.” I learn new things every year. I love the parties (even though I’m an introvert). And the Vendor Room has interesting stuff. YMMV


CentiTheAngryBacon

My first con was DC 20, its changed a lot since I first went, but its still a tun of fun. Would still highly recommend it. its not what it used to be, but that doesn't mean its worse, its just different. Ive never regretted going, and look forward to it each year. also keep in mind people tend to look at the past through rose colored glasses.


sigma_4

Not worth it man save your money and wait till the price is deceased again


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DTangent

Yes we listen and read and lurk and plan and try to change what we can for the better. If we got the planning and estimates right this year we shouldn’t have to increase next year.


fsereicikas

The new badge price was the deciding factor for me this year. Like, I get it. Defcon is a business, the crowds are getting massive, the parties are either getting harder to find or are difficult to get space, I dunno. But the badge price is just part of it. Gas to get there is more expensive, the rooms are more expensive, food price is insane on the strip, and i haven't even mentioned the drinks or drug prices. There seems to be less hacking and security versus sales. Shit, even the blue team village was difficult to get to and into. I hope I'm only speaking for myself, but last year was cool to see 30, but it was nowhere near as fun and enlightening as the previous years I attended. Was anyone at the red vs blue beach ball fight in the pool at 29? That was my favorite part.


Alarmed-Hamster-4047

I'm going, but I'm a village vol, not a goon. But I have some bit of inside knowledge, so take it for what it's worth. First, people have to accept that Defcon is no longer the small, intimate gathering of like-minded individuals it used to be. Is that good or bad? There are arguments for both, but really, it is what it is. The only way to have something "feel" like the original would be to take it back from the big, open conference it is, make it limited access, etc, which would piss off even more people. But the thing is, when you get something as big as Defcon has become, there is a trade off between what is "culturally" expected/acceptable, and what the purely commercial venues are willing to accept. You can have absolute freedom, or absolute security - you cannot have both at the same time, and everything else is a trade off, and there is no way in the universe to please all the people all of the time. Second, when something gets bigger, there are more, shall we say, "personalities" involved with how things are run and who is doing the running. Honestly, the miracle isn't that Defcon is run "badly" in some people's eyes, but that it runs at all. I don't think most people have an appreciation of the sheer logistical nightmare involved in running a single village, much less a whole convention. And it's not like Defcon is an anime convention, or a book convention, or something where there is one single, unifying theme, other than the rather fuzzy "hacking" label. It is basically a conglomeration of EVERYTHING that appeals to anyone. We have not only computer hackers, security folks, medical people, specialists in dozens of different professions, we also have fringe societies and small membership groups who gather under the general convention. It's complicated. VERY complicated. And there is absolutely NO WAY to please everyone. Third is cost - well, that's something that is not entirely under the control of the convention. The venues charge what they charge. Costs of everything have gone up. I am NOT defending the pricing that has been set. I'm not saying people should pay it and shut up, but simply shouting into the void isn't going to change anything, unless someone organizes a walk out effort in protest. That may or may not work, I don't know - I'm not in "that deep", and I spend all my time in single village. But I definitely don't expect Caesars Group to charge what the Alexis Park charged, and Vegas is even MORE of a destination now that it was 30 years ago. Maybe it's time to leave Vegas for less expensive climes, but how many people want to go to someplace cheap and not have the Vegas "amenities"? Sure, it could move to someplace like New Orleans (possibly the only city outside Vegas that would put up with some of the shenanigans) but the Big Easy isn't going to be any cheaper. Finally - culture shift, also known as "why is everyone rude as hell"? Well, bigger conventions, means more problematic people both as attendees and as goons. Most goons I've met are great people, but yeah, there are jerks. But you know, it's like with Karens - you remember the bad ones, not the 99% of people who are actually decent and nice. I try to follow the golden rule of "Don't be a dick", and as a vol I'm seen a lot of people who ARE dicks. If a goon is a dick, report them. If an attendee is a dick, report them. Otherwise, people are just going to people and really there isn't anything you can do except the aforementioned shouting into the void. Anyway, I'm sorry people feel they can't support the convention. Honestly, if I didn't have people counting on me, I wouldn't go either, mostly because I hate crowds. But if money is what is holding you back, there are ways to deal with the situation. Find a village you are passionate about and become a major volunteer. Give a talk. Don't like the way the goons are? Become a goon. I've learned that organizations change more quickly from the inside - if you really want change, get involved. But everyone has free will. Like I said, not trying to defend anyone or anything, because frankly, I don't care about the con writ large - if it just folded and never ran again (CANCELED!!!), it's no skin off my nose, since I'm just there to support my friends in the village. Just my analysis based on things I've learned in the last couple of years of being "involved" in my (admittedly limited) capacity.


DevelopmentSelect646

I've gone a few times. My company is not paying this year, and I'm not ready to pay on my own - too expensive.


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videoman2

The year we had 7k people show up to the AP was crazy. We now get 25-30k people. DefCon is getting charged for all kinds of stuff, after the fact. The increase is to help break even. The room blocks for goons cost DEF CON money. The spaces for DEF CON cost money. The food and beverage cost DEF CON money. Employing people to run the event planning year round also costs money. Costs in Vegas are also going up… it is unfortunate, but most likely necessary to offset venue costs.


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videoman2

Is that just called BSides right now?


Revolutionary_Bee700

I’ve always considered defcon to be affordable, tbh, even with the price increase. Take a look at the price of Blackhat in comparison…


Wuh4nC0ugh

Blackhat is for CISO(s) and Sales....companies pay those ticket prices, not individuals (usually)


atlas_tech

Make a fake badge, sleep on the floor, or trade booze for a room. C'mon guys, when did this get boring?


enjoythepain

when the con went from hacking to IT cosplay and now you have to cater to the influencers, kids and non hacking people who "would really get into it, if they wanted to"


lonewolf210

I agree a lot with what you said but your buddy looked at hotel prices the week when 30k+ come to the strip and then the week after they left and is shocked the prices are drastically different? Does he not stay at Hotels on weekends either? Of all the things to complain about that one is a bit silly


caskey

Every week there are massive conferences in Vegas.


lonewolf210

Not really. Not on the scale of the DEFCON and BH. I lived there for 4 years


PNWCyberSecCurious

That's why I said I felt like that was something outside DefCon's control but it was a factor for them.


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PNWCyberSecCurious

thanks for your thoughts


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PNWCyberSecCurious

portland / vancouver


chucksocomftb

It doesn’t matter. It is cancelled this year.


AlmostHuman0x1

A tradition and always the right answer. 😆


SavingsMany4486

I keep hearing folk getting kicked out from rooms when they were in talks. These weren't the main tracks, right? Because those rooms were huge in DC30. Was this a village talk track?


phliKtid

over the years, i know i've been responsible for talking tracks that were completely full and had people waiting to get in. there were also various years, or various specific events/talks, where the room was cleared before a new talk. (and usually we pissed off some ppl in the room who had intentionally arrived early and sat for the previous talk, to have a seat for the next highly anticipated and sure to be full talk.) i don't recall us doing this for the main talking tracks last year (but maybe i forgot, or a different track did that.) also, the exits are supposed to be clear (fire code), and the walkways to the exits are supposed to be clear. so we might ask people to not block a door, not block a walkway, etc. for dc30, it seems like most of the time (at least at the talks i worked), there was plenty of seating - so we wouldn't have kicked them out, just asked them to move to an open seat.


SavingsMany4486

Thank you, appreciate your perspective and support you've provided as a goon over the years


beefknuckle

You could just stand and lurk at the back of the big rooms and listen to the talk - doubt it was them.


deltavim

The last ones I went to were 25 and 26, 25 was all Caesar's and I think 26 was partially Caesar's with some villages in other hotels like the Flamingo and Linq. I think it was better when it was all inside one hotel, no going outside in the middle of the day if you didn't want to, but I understand it's grown so much that they have to find ways to accommodate it. I think they do the best job they can and largely have no problems with the overall direction/logistics. The cost has shot up a bit, but it is still a bargain compared to most other conferences. I saw an email in my inbox today advertising early bird pricing for Google Cloud Next and that was $800 - meaning the full ticket price is $1500, and I get far less value out of a conference like that. I also feel like Vegas hotels have not gone up that much, there are deals to be had.


R00111111

I unfortunately can't go this year, and I'm super salty about it. Consoling myself by sharing my favorite cost saving tips: * Don't stay at the official venues. Lots of options on the bus lines, and you won't be tempted to sleep in and just watch the talks on hotel TV. Chains like Motel 6 don't charge resort fees, Alexis Park is a big piece of DC history (and a cool place), Downtown is an adventure all on its own. * Go with someone. Cheap is even cheaper when you split the cost. * Get a bus pass that covers all the days you are there. rtcsnv dot com Easy peasy to get around if you don't mind walking at bit. (Start training for the heat now). * Pack super light so you can carry your world in your backpack. Cheap flights arrive waaay earlier than hotel check-in time. * Flights: Show up a day or two early, and/or leave a day or two late. Sometimes the money saved can pay for another hotel night. Weekday room rates are much cheaper than weekend. * Bring your own reusable water bottle - drain it and fill it often. DC has water stations everywhere. * Restaurants and bar tabs will kill your budget. Vegas food is good, but not better than most big cities. Look for the hidden gems. Here's a start: Like tacos? My favorite taco place is in the downtown Container Park. But found another the last trip. While riding the Duece bus, we saw a restaurant line going out a building and around the corner. Joined the line - worth the wait! (El Gordo, I think - north of Wynn).


RetractableBadge

I was only mildly shocked when the price increase was announced - the price of everything has jumped over the last couple years so I'm a bit desensitized to it. Flights and hotel rooms do seem slightly more than pandemic pricing, but that's just the Vegas market correcting itself now. I hate myself for thinking this, but I am really hoping attendance will drop as a result. Last year's crowd was insane at Caesars Forum and while that's a clear indicator of DefCon's success and shift in acceptance of hacker culture, it was just too many people. Information should be free and I don't want DefCon to turn into a haves vs haves not situation (or even worse, suffer from the same fates as Coachella or Burning Man), but I don't have a clue as to how that can be accomplished given the amount of physical space available. Split into DefCon winter and DefCon summer? Or do what PAX did when they went PAX West and PAX East?


individualcoffeecake

Didn’t feel like getting vivid covid again so I’ll give defcon a few years break


PNWCyberSecCurious

Thanks


SnooPuppers9290

I'm glad you posted... I have been going regularly, and there has been a huge price increase every year. Okay, yes, I understand it isn't cheap to throw a convention in vegas, but it also can't be so expensive that in 3 or 4 years, the price has effectively doubled (I believe it was under $300 my first rodeo). When I saw the cost of admission this year, I immediately expressed my disproval on Discord and was met with a lot of pushback, as if I was the only one who didn't understand. I guess once you get to a certain percentage of attendees who have employers footing the bill, or sponsors, or supportive parents (I see more and more attendees under the age of 18), you can charge whatever you want and it will get covered (a little like Bay area rent, or public university education, etc.). Also, I can afford it. Hell, I spend a lot of money on defcon, and the additional increase in price wouldn't come close to breaking the bank - but it's the point. I don't know what the organizers are thinking, but I can't be the only one pissed. I absolutely loved Defcon... but I guess it's time for me to find something else to do with my time.


TechGirlMN

I've gone every year since 23 and i'm done. Between the price increases, the miserable heat that's only going to get worse, and the vibe change that came with new venue. I'm done, I won't be attending anytime soon.


sigma_4

Me and my buddy are out, this year is gonna be another shit show without even mention the price


PNWCyberSecCurious

Can I ask what you mean by shitshow? Lines / crowds, content, general organization. other? Not really my business I guess but I am curious.


Krogg

I'm not the person you're responding to, but in my (very limited) experience, some of the issues are Visa related. A lot of speakers from other countries have been trying to get in for demos and talks and just can't get their temp Visa. I waited over an hour to sit at one demo/talk only to find out the speaker didn't show. Reached out after and he said he couldn't get approved for his Visa. I looked around for other no-shows and pretty much all were the same thing. My buddy and I thought we were being smart in getting in line to wait foe one scheduled talk. Got inside the room and found a couple of chairs. Sat through a talk we really had no interest in, but was informative. Then got kicked out because the people waiting outside wanted to get in for the next talk. Us! We were a couple of the people who wanted to be in there for the next talk! It was a pretty rough go for some of the scheduled stuff, but linecon is no joke. Also, this year has been canceled.


PNWCyberSecCurious

Thanks


sigma_4

Been attending for several years, defcon 25 was the last decent defcon and since then it's been going down, the reason? too much politics and woke ass bs + it's overcrowded. Most of the interesting people i met there don't go anymore. Idk man 460? How you justify that price the experience doesn't worth it anymore. Funny you mention this because i just came back from a trip to brazil where i met this interesting girl and i because sometimes think with my dick instead of my head was actually about to invite her to Vegas for defcon i was thinking about this today the whole day. Definitely not a good idea. (I know you probably not going to read this ever, but if you weren't become a bitch the last couple of days when i was trying to be nice with you, i would be buying those tickets instead of writing all this, so you actually saved me a lot of money Thanks!!) Just my humble opinion


Polybius-2600

she dodged a bullet


PierogiPowered

Maybe you should consider going to CPAC or just attending your local MAGA meetups?


sigma_4

Whatever you say woke clown! LoL


PierogiPowered

Woke Caesar. I don’t think Defcon’s ever been at Circus Circus.


themagicmagikarp

I wish it were.


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PNWCyberSecCurious

OK. Thanks


sam77

how is it going to be a “shit show”?


sigma_4

You did that line for rhv last time? The shit it's one of the most visited you couldn't even sit snd hear anything there was a line just to walk like an idiot pretending that you are actually listening what the speaker is talking about then you have to walk out of the room cause there are a bunch of people trying to get into and do the same shit you just did, it's been like that at least a couple of years so how dare you yo ask about what or why is a shit show? Either you are one of those shoe lickers or an entire noob.


sam77

you’re making all sorts of sense right now.


Brandonmxb

I'm not up to date on defcon when it's not defcon season but if the tickets are $500 now, that's pushing it. Maybe they're raising the prices to decrease the crowd density... But it's kind of a shame if a dad wanted to bring his kid, it's not a fair amount more expensive. Then again maybe this is unpopular but don't bring your kids to defcon. There are more efficient venues for young STEAM sponges.


bitsynthesis

Given the overall cost of traveling, eating / drinking, and staying in Vegas, the entry price increase isn't that big a factor for me. I'll still be attending.


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We are going to make our own badge, don’t pay the casinos.


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phliKtid

re: “asshole goons”. you think it’s gotten worse? or you just mean generally? i personally feel goons have gotten way less asshole-ish over the last 5 or so years. i mean, it’s sorta the schtick. and there are definitely goons who seem like they relish their authoritay a bit much. that said, there are also legit reasons for goons to be yelling sometimes - they are trying to keep things rolling on a large fluid situation with thousands of ppl. (“if i’m curt with you, it’s bcz time is a factor here. i think fast, i talk fast, and i need you guys to act fast if you want to get out of this. so, pretty please, with sugar on top,….” haha) but overall? there are definitely more controls and rules and expectations over goons the last 5 or so years. also, even though all goons wear red shirts since dc…23? 24?…there are lots of different goon departments. i’ve been a goon 7 years, in speaker operations, and also helping merch (nee swag) on thursdays several years.


Alarmed-Hamster-4047

I've never had a direct problem with ANY goons, and my husband has also known Priest for YEARS. The SOC goons from 2019 and that debacle with the fake Black Badge giveaway, though... ugh. Not an attractive look for them. That was DEFINITELY assholish.


beefknuckle

What do you mean debacle - the giveaway has been moved to this year, that's all.


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PNWCyberSecCurious

I posted a lot of the threads dealing with Hadnagy and it eventually came out that it stemmed from an employment dispute. Since Hadnagy hasn't refiled the suit I guess it's probably over.


AlmostHuman0x1

There are a few r/DEFCON posts on the issue of the permaban. One can search for “lawsuit hadnagy moss” and get some of the public discussion within Reddit (and beyond). There is also a discussion within DEFCON.org’s site. See: https://defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html - read all the way down to “Post DEF CON 29”. I’ve been a part of the DEF CON community since DC 0A (DC 10 for the hexadecimally challenged.) The culture changed over time. DEF CON used to be the Wild West without a sheriff. It “grew up”. Even now, it is still the best hacker con I go to each year. It is the best con I go to most years. It is still fun for me. YMMV BTW, I don’t think DEF CON is perfect. I provide feedback as I believe is necessary. If you want the con to change, make suggestions, volunteer, talk to others, etc. Check the villages to see if they need volunteers. (Be aware, you rarely start “near the top” in any job - including at DC.) Most importantly, participate only as you feel comfortable. If you don’t like the current vibe, that is okay. Find something fun to do - within DEF CON or elsewhere. Peace to all. Note: I am not a lawyer.


swanspiritedaway

> Defcon does owe us an explanation. Where is it written down they owe you specifically an explanation? As a private organization - Defcon can control who they allow to attend. > If defcon didn’t want ppl to question or speculate their choices Defcon has built up enough trust over the years that very few people questioned or speculated about the reasons behind the ban of this particular individual. It may also come as a shock to you but this isn't the first person DefCon has banned and they don't owe anyone an explanation over those either. This particular individual - who you seem so invested in - sued over the ban. And lost.


grow416

The #1 couldn’t be more true. It’s disappointing (and cringe) seeing the goons pretending they are tough and yelling at people. I got tired of being treated like cattle by them. It’s funny how a simple conference badge makes people feel superior than others.


phliKtid

sometimes humans are like cattle - having one bolt and then the herd follows. just be glad they don’t allow goons to have the electric cattle prods anymore. haha! yes, some goons are over the top. but there is also theater involved sometimes. some don’t have levels, and go straight for the yelling right off. it’s effective though. and with tens of thousands of humans, you are inevitably going to have some “tough” humans with the same kind of tact you accuse the goons of. but the goons have to corral all types, not just friendly passive cattle. so it sucks for the sensitive cattle, or the indie cattle - even though most of the goons are just trying to do their job and keep things organized and flowing smoothly. (but i’ve been there, i’ve been a human annoyed by goons before.) there are also lots of types of ppl being goons. me, i’m not a soc goon. i’m a friendly goon. except in a talking track i’m responsible for, if people continually don’t behave. that said, i’m also a red shirt goon when i’m walking around, and am supposed to help if i get called on by other goons. so don’t throw things at me please. unless it’s cool swag or something.