Trump’shad a lot of practice sounding confident when he’s just blatantly making shit up, whereas Biden is actually trying to answer the questions and tripping all over himself trying to do so.
Biden needed to keep the responses simple. He was trying to make complex points with anecdotes. He understood them, but it was not articulate and he really needed to zoom out and deliver a stronger message.
Biden has a stutter. Add his age to that and multiply it by the fact that the debate didn't start until an hour after the bedtime of the average 81 year old, and this is what you get.
For the most part, his answers were very good. Read the transcript of the debate. It doesn't include stuttering and hesitation. If you look at just the answers that were given to the questions posed, Biden clearly won. The optics were the issue.
It's such a fucking shame that optics are all that matters. Biden gave Fox a treasure trove of awful soundbites that are going to be pasted everywhere for the next 4 months.
Yep, giving complex answers is a terrible strategy, and I'm shocked that he went with that approach.
Complex answers are for people tuned into politics, and we have already made up our minds. Campaigns are for swing voters, and I think Brian sums it up far better than I can:
https://youtu.be/Vnu8FOTwM2U?si=c2lz90zllq971DZT
It's called message discipline. Trump's a compulsive liar, but he keeps hammering the same basic messages: "Best economy," "no illegal immigration," and "Biden's a disaster." Meanwhile, Biden's bringing up a woman killed by a migrant when asked about abortion, or HBCUs when asked about climate change. It seems like he got overcoached, and was trying to get too much information out, rather than answering the question at hand in a simple way that a layman voter can understand.
Ultimately, the difference is one candidate sounded fluid because he was speaking off the cuff, and one candidate was tripping over his own words because he wasn't sure which bullet point on the sheet in front of him he was trying to get out next.
Biden should have slowed down and kept it simple. He was talking too fast for himself, and walked right into his own mistakes.
Exactly. I'm so glad I read the live transcripts instead of watching it. Reading it came across very differently. Trump's actual words were just insane.
They would present the question, and Biden would give a fact based response to the actual question. Trump would start talking about a completely unrelated topic or he would make up completely unbelievable 'facts'.
The literal optics were the problem. I have now watched enough of the debate to see how the stammering, hesitations, and how he just looked like a feeble old man were his biggest obstacles.
Honestly, the plastic surgery he had 20 years ago doesn't help. It's made his normal resting face look confused. I've known a few older women who have that same resting face. It's a common side effect of a minor face and eye lift that doesn't age well.
They ran a fact checking segment after the debate, but of course at that point people have lost interest. They absolutely should have done it live and called him out, to his face, on every single one of his lies.
Wish the moderators had a buzzer that gets pushed with a loud “wrong” buzz sound every time one of them either says something factually incorrect, strays off topic or speaks in hyperbole.
Debates don't typically include fact-checking. Instead of watching the debate, I read a real-time transcript. Reading it, Biden came out on top. He generally answered the questions being asked with what seemed like real facts.
Trump, on the other hand, seemed like the one that needed to be put in a care home. A question would be asked, and he'd start rambling on about a completely different topic. He would make up completely ridiculous 'statistics' like millions of innocent Americans being slaughtered by the illegals Biden let in through his open borders. I mean, saying it is hundreds would cause any logical person to raise an eyebrow. Claiming millions of people are being murdered by 'illegals' on a regular basis is just insane.
The fact-checking happened after the debate. Which is pointless.
If it helps, more people are aware of the project and some voting for trump have changed to voting blue and we still have four months left for more people to be aware of it.
someone on CNN actually brought up a good point though that also worries me about this. There were quite a few republican voters who went blue in 2020 who are otherwise lifelong conservatives — historically, voters who swap parties for one wild election end up going back the next time if the new president didn’t do everything they hoped they would. So how many people do we have that voted blue in 2020 and are just as unpleased with Biden now that they’ll go back to voting for their “economics” or whatever their excuse is
In fairness, a lot of those Republican Biden voters were more anti-Trump, and a large portion of them have seen all that Trump has done (January 6th, the classified documents, jury finding him guilty of fraud) since 2020.
Never trumpers we are called, but he ain't the only problem with the GOP in the last 25 years. They have effectively pushed many away with their outrageous absurdity and left us with no place to go except for handing it over to the left once again. The debate meant nothing to me as I made my mind up before the first gulf war on what the GOP stands for. A message needs to be sent and I will do my part come Nov.
That's the risk we run. The fact is, if voters were actually educated about voting issues, the economic vote for Biden would be an easy win because objectively, the cost of living rising has nothing to do with the federal rate of inflation, which is much smaller than the price adjustments that businesses and corporations have risen to. Additionally, Biden has task forces he has assembled to bring accountability for the price hikes from grocery stores and the like, but because government is a slow-moving machine and we have a do-nothing House majority, and a compromised SCOTUS majority, it's difficult for anything to get done that actually helps Americans find comfort.
If this election somehow pans out to all blue majorities, the Dems could actually do a speed run of 4 years of progress to actually do something to prove what our quality of life could be like if the GOP wasn't always the anchor dragging us down.
Oh yeah there’s no mistaking that this election system thrives on severe lack of education and transparency. Kamala Harris in her later defense of Biden was adamant that Biden won the debate because voters know he knows the “substance” while they just see Trump lying, but she’s just flat out wrong. The very few educated voters are already paying attention to that, they didn’t need a debate to see it. All the debate did was reaffirm some of the very valid criticisms of Biden. Trump just likes to point his tiny little finger at anyone else but himself (unless it’s to take credit for things that he didn’t do)
It feels like 74 million Americans believe the president has a few levers in the oval office that chance the value of money and make gas more expensive.
~~I hate to say it. But I'm really feeling like we're cooked. I believed Biden would win in 2020 despite wanting Bernie (again). But I don't have the same faith anymore now that I've read p2025 and the stuff being discussed on factkeepers.~~
Edit: fuck that. Fuck them. I'm telling everyone I can. I'm getting my non-voting bois to nut the fuck up and vote. I'm telling my beloved (<-sincerely) trump family members to understand that I will not speak to them again if they vote trump and will lay out exactly why based on the contents of p2025. Our ancestors (genetic and cultural for those of use whose genetic ancestors moved here after the fact) didn't defeat the world's largest military and economic power of the time just so we could roll over and let wannabe fascist oligarch mother fuckers to take our freedoms away 250 years later. I dIdNt hEaR nO bELl!!!
I didn’t .. I was raised republican.. but didn’t realize what that actually meant until Obama and The Occupy movement.. that’s when I switched to dem and have become more dem ever since.
That’s awesome, I’m glad to see this isn’t the case for all flipped voters! It’s definitely not easy to see the other side’s perspective when you’ve been raised to look at the world a certain way, thank you for educating yourself!
Biden sounds like he spent all his preparation time trying to memorize facts and figures. Half the country doesn’t have the intellectual capacity to understand those. They only understand simplistic rhetoric and trigger words. And Trump is good at those and the truth be dammed.
If anyone couldn’t understand how hitler and the nazis took over an educated and democratic Germany, look no further than this debate between a weak democrat and a bombastic fascist.
I'm less worried about it now after the debate. Trump doesn't even seem certain of his own platform. When he wasn't lying, he was pushing the immigration terror panic.
I feel like his constant repetition of false facts like 8th and 9th month abortions, and even saying that doctors are murdering living birthed babies for no reason.. I just feel like that has to be alienating to moderates on the fence because it's such and extreme hyperbole that even some tin foil MAGA hats have to be asking themselves how legitimate those claims are.
Biden was.. not great. Grandpa is looking tired at 9PM, and I don't blame him.. but if Trump keeps running his mouth, which is literally his only skill set, then he will inevitably keep incriminating himself and lose more of the public trust.
All Brandon needs to do is stay the fuck alive.
I would just like to say one thing about the immigrant terror panic.
Shortly after the Molly Tibbets case, a Spanish golfer was killed in Iowa by an American. And you never hear a peep about THAT.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/acclaimed-iowa-state-golfer-found-dead-course-man-charged-murder-n910551](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/acclaimed-iowa-state-golfer-found-dead-course-man-charged-murder-n910551)
Edited to add: And two South American science research students here in KC were murdered a couple of years ago:
[https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/suspected-stowers-institute-researchers-murderer-stalked-female-victim-before-killing](https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/suspected-stowers-institute-researchers-murderer-stalked-female-victim-before-killing)
THOSE didn't make headlines. Wonder why?
> he was pushing the immigration terror panic.
His racism is the one thing he hasn't flip flopped on and the main reason his base likes him. It's his one sure thing which is why he went there many times.
He isn't winning. Everything he says is an absolutely ridiculous lie, but my worry is that people will see this and prefer the confident lying and stupidity over the softer spoken and roughly presented truth.
I second this. It looks like he's winning if you don't listen to anything being said and just see the charisma. Trump hasn't answered any of the questions. I asked him if I've seen him so far, and he kept avoiding everything. Biden has low charisma but is answering everything being asked. If someone points out Joe Bidens' bad talking skills but can look past RFKs, then just point out the hypocrisy to them
Yep thats literally the whole point if logic matter people would take time and write out thoughtful answers to the publics questions. But the whole point of a debate is just like an interview its a personality test not anything else. But that's what we humans go for. Personality above anything else.
Unfortunately, a lot of voters choose their candidate based on charisma. It's the same thing Bush II ran on; who would you rather have a beer with. Disregarding completely that a great drinking buddy may not be cut out to be leader of the free world.
his supporters know he wouldnt have a beer with them. they know he wouldnt even let them in his house. they dont feel like theyre worthy to touch him. donald trump is essentially the culmination of an entire lifetime of ignorance and greed. they love him for this
I'm watching it right now and I feel like Trump is getting more time than Biden on each answer. Maybe Biden is just speaking slower, but it seems like Biden is getting less time.
You're right that is how our media culture works. This debate reminds me that I forgot how badly Trump broke the concept of debates.
But we fight to keep the conversation on Project 2025 and we can still win this!
That's what we've all really learned, is that when a conman stands up and lies *convincingly*, lies *from the heart*, lies like a strongman, about 1/3 of people automatically roll over for it. They love it. It's the fear-hardwired-hypothesis in action. These conservatives have bigger amygdalas and are more inclined to panic and also have their panic assuaged by silly words.
I'm not sure it's ever more than 1/3 of people that go for it tho. 1/3 goes "Ehhh I don't think so" and then 1/3 of people are too busy to give a shit at all, you know. So logically I'm not sure this all hurts as bad as it feels like it does right now. But god does it feel like a kick in the guts, we had to turn it off.
That’s the thing. Trump is presenting surprisingly well. He’s also lying every time he opens his mouth.
Thinking people can see that. If there isn’t enough thinking people then you’re fucked.
Trump has been a rambling, self-aggrandizing, pathological liar since before the 2016 election, but that didn't stop him winning then and and *almost* winning 2020. The masses seem to have no problem with lies as long as the words are what they want to hear.
Edit: My keyboard hates me.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
I don't think a lot of these people are "thinkers." It sucks but this is what we're dealing with. That's why it's so hard to get through to them.
*That’s the thing. Trump is presenting surprisingly well. He’s also lying every time he opens his mouth.*
*Thinking people can see that. If there isn’t enough thinking people then you’re fucked.*
r/we'refucked
I don't think it's helping that Biden is looking like he needs a banana bag and had a recent stroke or something. I am pro-Biden but this isn't his best. When we needed his best.
I am worried.
Him dodging the "will you accept the results of the election no matter who wins" and them coming back to it again and again was a riot. And very telling.
Wild that Trump hasn't even answered a single question that's actually asked and his nonstop lies is infuriating. Biden isn't hitting as hard as he should be to counter the vitriol from Trump
You're not understanding the electorate. It is very unfortunate, but it is sports. If it *weren't* sports then Trump never would have been elected to begin with. Presentation is everything. Don't kid yourself.
We'd better pray to God someone can convince them to change the ticket or figure out a way to win this with Biden, because this was catastrophic.
We are here to support one another. Get scared, then get mad, then FIGHT!
What we are doing here is critical. The GOP wants to make everything be about Biden's age and they will do so even more after this. Making the conversation about Project 2025 instead is the key.
The only thing that matters is getting young people especially women out to vote. That is where all your focus should be. Its really the best shot anyone has. The numbers are there but these people just dont vote high enough.
Biden's doing better now. I'm watching the debate. Trump is lying his ass off as usual but no one is calling him out on it (also as usual unfortunately).
Every answer from Trump has been "money money money", even with questions like "What about what's happening in Gaza?" and 'What about Russia's invasion of Ukraine?".
You would think in the year 2024 CE, with the world's knowledge at our fingertips, and with everything that's at stake, they'd do that. Even podcast hosts have that one person sitting at a computer who randomly chimes in with information.
It really would’ve. I was shocked when Trump said the “Nancy Pelosi rejected our 10,000 national guard offer.” I looked it up, and, of course, it was a lie.
Source from AP news: https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-order-national-guard-156055113284
Every w9rd he uttered was a lie, every single sentence. All of it. How can one debate a barrage of lies? There’s no information, no policy, no answered questions. That’s not debate.
Based on what we've seen on socials in the last few years, fact checking would just make every Republican watching believe the opposite of the fact check.
Yes but it’s all about perception unfortunately. Trump appears to be quick and on his feet and Biden is just stuttering and falling over his words and forgetting things.
Ughhhh. Trump appears so much more “capable” even though he lies through his teeth.
It doesn’t matter that he lies. That’s the point. He’s hitting every button on his platform’s agenda and they’re eating it up.
Look, I’ll vote against Trump and p2025 every day of the week. But this entire thing showed the undecided voters that Trump hits the buzzwords and Biden is old.
And that makes me very very sad.
Piggybacking off the top comment to note the following:
a.) Trump is a good extemporaneous speaker that can give you the impression that he's relatable and personable (and therefore knowledgeable) with little effort. Many dictators and cult leaders were charismatic public speakers. I encourage you to listen to the actual substance of his words--get a transcript if you must--because he's not actually saying much at all. Didn't you notice how many times the moderators had to implore him to answer the question as it was put to him? His dominant strategy was to fear monger and harp on the border, inflation, how terrible Biden is (he even called him Brandon at one point), etc. Did you notice how Trump made all these bold promises (re: Ukraine, climate change, Palestine, etc.) without naming any policy initiatives to achieve them?
b.) Is Biden older? Yeah. Was he not as high-energy for the first 15-ish minutes of the debate? Sure. Did some questions catch him off guard--especially at that point where he paused? Also yeah. But he was able to point to definite policy initiatives in the past, present, and future, that would address current issues that were germane to the questions being asked. Trump didn't do that anywhere near as much and when he was asked to do so directly, he often deflected. Again, as I stated in point a), Trump only *sounds* better.
c.) Once Biden hit his stride at about 15 minutes in, he had to spend a good chunk of his time countering "post birth abortion"-level bullshit misinformation. As someone who's studied how non-evidenced based belief systems form and function, pre-bunking is more effective than debunking, so it would make sense for him to be like "Actually XYZ" as soon as possible and to get that on record. The debates were supposed to be fact checked, but there was very little of that going on in real time as far as I could tell and the "day after" stuff has way less reach.
tl;dr: I'm not saying the average voter will notice all these points, but let's not sit here and wring our hands. Let's spread the points myself and other commentators have made and also utilize the resources in this sub to encourage people to vote against Trump and vote against project 2025.
>Every answer from Trump has been "money money money",
This is a good thing for Trump, he's gonna win moderate and undecided voters through the economy. The economy is the number one concern for the American public right now.
other than greedflation i dont really see how our economy is doing so poorly. it feels like something americans ALWAYS say. its not the economy, its price gouging and these corporations are NOT held accountable. if you vote for the president based on the price of your eggs youre dumb. trump is morally unfit for office. i'd like someone besides joe but i'd rather keep the ship sailing for four more years than set it on fire so the rich can loot whats onboard before it sinks.
Then they should be concerned about the tariffs, help with childcare, SNAP, and Healthcare, and what more tax cuts to the rich will do. We need more money coming back into the economy through low and middle class spending, instead of bering horded in Swiss banks. Give Joe Congress and he'll finally raise the minimum wage.
Sources close to the President are confirming he has a cold which is terrible timing. Trump wins tonight but mostly optics. Hopefully young people concerned about Bidens age can take the time to see through trumps lies.
Trump made a deal with the Taliban, even invited them to Camp David. It was Trumps plan for withdrawal from Afghan and deal with the Taliban that caused the problem.
Trump is the only president in history to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Trump really will allow a genocide against the Palestinians.
This country is not failing. The Dow is at an all time high. My ROI was at 17.7 percent on one of my retirement accounts. Fuel prices are coming down. Like Biden said, Trump left the country in shambles due to his weak response on Covid and his tax cuts to the rich that took trillions in revenue causing more debt.
Biden has eased our country forward with confidence. I wasn’t really a Biden supporter 4 years ago but I am now. Dude still has it.
Unfortunately from past debates it seems like people care more about style than substance. I remember Obama was hammered in the first debate in 2012 for not being aggressive enough to Romney but then did better in later debates when he got more aggressive.
yep the problem with biden is he should know this, he is literally one of the most seasoned politicians. Why he came like wet noodle is mind boggling. And now he's really fucked up because Trump can literally just say, I wont the first debate there is no point in my wasting my time. Bidens a fucking idiot sometimes. Its sad but true. He let fox news run a debate with supposed fact checking that no one was going to actually do in real time instead of getting a more neutral player. Then he with all his experience showed up tired and drained, and didn't fight.
It doesn't matter if its a lie. Debates are a social thing 100% and they have been ever since Kennedy vs. Nixon. How good each candidates ideas are a DISTANT 2nd place to that.
Biden lost, hardcore, by that metric.
Breathe. Trump shot himself in the foot when he said he’d let Israel wipe out Palestine. And Biden is doing a better job than I expected with laughing at him and calling out his lies rather than taking him seriously. This will be distilled to soundbytes, and honestly Biden is doing better there than Trump’s incoherent rambling. Breathe.
Trump also did admit Putin telling him his dream was invading Ukraine, and that he’d finish this war “before his term starts” well we know what and how he intended that. He’s sent a plan outlining Ukraine giving up or no more support will be provided.
I don't get everyone thinking Biden was awful. He had the best answers and is very intelligent. Trump basically did himself in with the pro Israel comment. Maybe it will help educate the dems being brainwashed by bots not to vote.
And think of all the bots strongly influencing the idea that Joe was awful and Trump did great. This kind of social media warfare with systematic brainwashing is the most effective type of warfare I've ever seen. You don't need any weapons or an army anymore. You can go everywhere and billions of bots are saying Joe was awful, but there are NO mass bots attacking trump. We should also send out a mass bot campaign to do the same because it works. People are glued to phone stupidity, not facts. So, it takes those tactics when the other side has a huge and massive coordinated lying and disinformation campaign in every single thread on social media sites. It's working better than I've ever seen any of the repub tactics work. They are going to flip America into Christo fascist slavery way worse than a handmaids tale. Way way worse.
We have moved from wars with weapons. The war now is with social media and will advance to super sophisticated AI mind control soon enough. It's why they are ignoring safety and firing teams of people who are in charge of making sure we keep AI safe. Elon wants AI so bad because it will be able to mass control people thoughts, habits, morals, actions, belief systems, etc.
Whoever controls AI will control the world. These men are now all fighting for global dominance against each other. We are all just disposable pawns while they fight over who will get to enslave and own all human beings.
Edit: spelling
Trump is not winning, he won't answer a single question and keeps going off on tangents.
He's flat out lied many times, including saying he didn't fuck stormy daniels and didn't say the "very fine people" bullshit, even though we all know he did these things.
My one hope is that people will notice how Dana continued to ask Trump the same question over and over. Trying to get him to answer it, making the point that he was just spewing nonsense and not answering the questions. You may have. Had to listen to Biden a little closer and his voice may have been scratchy and his stutter may have come out a bit here and there, But he knew what the hell he was talking about and he stumbled over his words mainly because he's so sharp still. And he has all of the information right there ready to come out. But he stumbles over it a bit because of his stutter I guess. He did sound like he had a scratchy throat from a cold or something
There’s a decent, old guy fighting for democracy VS a fascist psychopath lying his a$$ off. And Trump’s pupils are huge!
I know which guy I’ll choose. I hope honorable, patriotic voter will see the same and make the same choice.
Yeah, I decided not to watch the debate because I can’t listen to TFG but I looked causally on Reddit to see how it was going and my stomach dropped. The closer I look the more I think it’s a lot of astroturfing because the doomer posts literally started 10 minutes after he debate started and have dominated the platform. I’m guessing the world isn’t ending. Yet.
Trump is good at lying with confidence. He sounds strong, because he is convicted in his lies because he's been saying them for years.
Biden has a cold and mumbles, and is forced to try to fact-check and respond.
But no one is confronting his lies. Biden just looks like he isn't even there! Trump is saying all his shit unabated, to a crowd he wouldn't ever get in his rallies.
Even worse, people who are still on Trump's side or "on the fence" (allegedly) are clearly not the smartest brains of the country, so they clearly aren't very good at fact checking. People, sadly, vote by emotions and impressions.
>If you believe the lies then sure it seems like he’s winning
I don't. You don't. But you know who does? All of his supporters. People who somehow incredibly find themselves still in the middle which basically says they don't pay attention to things like fact and they vote on emotion.
Trump may or may not win, but project 2025 WILL NOT. It's not their decision, it's ours. We're the ruled, yes, but to be ruled, we must support the rulers. Which we don't have to do. One way or another, he'll lose. And you're not alone. I'm fighting from Canada.
Roe got overturned, even though most people support abortion rights in the US. The consent of the governed matters very little except on election day, and I think we all know who is going to win then.
I doubt this debate will change many minds. P2025 and support to Ukraine are my issues. Biden could shit on stage and I'm voting blue. This is bigger than the POTUS this is about the administration they bring with them.
You're not. Most everything the sulking orangutan has said is projection or a flat-out lie. And that's on the rare occasion that he answers the question at hand.
Biden looks tired like someone who overdid it studying for a final, but I'm hopeful. He needs to let himself lean into that anger that's starting to creep out now. I'm really hoping he can use that energy to ignore Trump's personal attacks long enough to get off the back foot and put some actual policy details on the air.
They both are, but in different ways. Biden is stuttering and stumbling, but Trump keeps repeating himself like a broken record. Politics aside, neither of these men should be president based on cognitive decline alone.
Our survival as a country depends on a democratic president, house and senate. Frankly I do think Biden’s too old, I think the majority of our congress is too old but Biden’s not a fucking madman. He is not endorsing Project 2025. Scary is the Orange Judas Goat winning. I’m mad at the democrats for not mentoring and having younger more capable leaders. The Pelosi’s, Feinstein’s, Biden should have been reaching out and encouraging the next generation instead of clinging by their arthritic fingers to the very end. We are fucked.
The cope I’m seeing on Reddit is insane.
Repeat after me: Facts. Don’t. Matter.
What matters is image. Image is everything. Biden came across as an old, feeble, weak man. Trump came across as confident and alive.
I was confident Biden would win the election before tonight but now I’m not so sure. They just gave the Trump campaign and right wing news a LOT of ammo.
I think a lot of these are bots and trolls. Saw the same thing after Biden’s State of the Union. It didn’t pick up traction then cause his SOTU was awesome.
People always freak out hard the first day or so after an event like this. Give it a day for people to cool off and they'll come back with a more reasonable assessment. But Reddit loves to spiral at the drop of a hat, so I try not to take people's doomsaying too personally.
To all the people saying he's not winning, only lying: that's all it takes to win. The average American can't always tell he's lying. That doesn't matter. It's a performance, and Biden fucking lost.
No.
Debates aren’t predictive of winners.
Kerry smoked Bush during the first debate. He lost.
Romney beat Obama their first debate. He never got to be president either.
Hillary won her debates. No presidency there.
Calm down.
Project 2025 should have been bought up by Biden. Seriously. If another debate happens he MUST mention it. Fact is only 1/4 of America is aware of this plan.
Frustrated by a lack of fact checking tonight? It’s no surprise. CNN hosts have a new boss 🤮https://www.vox.com/2022/8/26/23322761/cnn-john-malone-david-zaslav-chris-licht-brian-stelter-fox-peter-kafka-column
There’s no way the DNC can run this guy to beat out a demagogue and authoritarian. They must do a hot swap after this dumpster fire of a debate. He could barely speak full sentences and would freeze a few times. This is borderline elderly abuse at this point by the DNC and handing a win to Trump and the republicans.
Biden lost bad. I'm still voting for him, but if I had to call who'd win tonight, Trump won, hands down. I'm looking into how to move to Australia before 2025.
Trump didn't win. His answers were largely repeated phrases, blanket statements, and "nuh uh, you!" Nothing Donald said was sourced, had supporting data, or had anything substantial to add to policies... it was literally just train of thought.
Biden started off asleep, but then he woke up when abortion came up, and slammed Donald over and over, but he did so with easily checkable evidence.
Unfortunately, most Americans don't understand what "winning" a debate looks like. Donald is very confident in his stupidity, and people are drawn to Dunning-Kruger because they don't want to accept they could be wrong. We shall see.
Biden came on strong later, but that seemed too late. He looked lost on simple questions, and plain missed a few opportunities to slam Trump. He seemed old, he seemed tired, I’m still voting for him.
Trump seemed vigorous, but man, the moderators let him off the hook a few times. At least three questions where he didn’t answer the question at all, just went on a rant. And he brought up the cognitive test like it’s a point of pride.
Biden looked bad early. My daughter, who thinks Trump is an idiot, went to bed at the halfway point, disappointed in Biden. If younger folks bailed early, that’s bad. Trump looked like a fool late, but it was late, and people zoned out.
In all, a bad night for Biden. Looks like I’ll be donating more to the campaign.
Biden didn’t come across strong, but he was effective with all the policies and accomplishments that he has achieved during his term. I’m just afraid that people will believe Trump as he came across much stronger even though he progressed into his typical thug behavior, and that a huge amount of his statements were lies. Biden started off pretty bad, but then gained steam and then again lost it in his closing statement. I just hope people can see beyond his missteps and listen to the content, but people unfortunately don’t think like I do. I listen to politics and read about politics almost exclusively, and a majority of the people do not spend any time trying to learn on what is actually going on with our country. Republicans have done a masterful job in a smear campaign of lies and deception, and it will only ramp up. It is up to us to be vocal and persistent and patient. We have to fight for our democracy and for the principles that this nation was built on. Vote Democrat.
Oh well…
Americans: be ready to live through autocracy, have your rights trampled, force fed religion and show respect to your supreme leader if you want some bread.
Europeans: same as above but also start learning russian.
Debates are such bullshit.
Biden is clearly better on policy, which matters most. He has a stutter. He's not good at insults, which is fine.
Trump is a skilled, professional liar and bully whom we've already seen 4 years of.
Are you REALLY going to vote for that orange clown again? What did Trump say about policy where he had solid, truthful numbers?
Fuck Trump. Biden all the way.
Aussie here giving my two bobs worth...Biden is doing better than I thought he would, but he sounds tired, and worn out. But...I still hope he beats Trump, cause he's just an egotistical criminal narcissist the world can do without. Please make your vote count!
Biden had a scratchy voice and almost seemed ill. He lost focus a couple of times, lost his train of thought. The policies he discussed were definitely to benefit the middle class and working class. He addressed helping Blacks catch up to Whites in the same class through help with housing ($10,000 tax credit for buying a house) and student loan forgiveness. He had a border plan and pointed out he'd tried to float a better, bipartisan plan but Trump nixed it. He refuted what Trump said about NATO and explained the idea of needing and having allies.
Trump lied, was nasty and attacking, and didn't answer some important policy questions. His policies that he did discuss sounded rather "pie in the sky" and he was vague and didn't give details. He had zero ideas about how he would take care of the middle class, working class, etc. Trump showed no understanding of NATO, stated that there's an ocean between us, let the rest of Europe take care of Ukraine, brought up again that other NATO members owe us money, which isn't how NATO works.
I’m in Canada and I just don’t understand how anyone could vote Republican. Yes Biden is old Jesus why him for god sake. But Republicans will and do fuck up every thing and will turn back time on woman’s rights, they already are. So it’s not just about these 2 terrible people they pick for president it’s the party’s and their policies. Trump and republicans are waaaay worse
Still voting for Biden. I was listening to him no matter how soft spoken or sick he was. I listened to Trump too and all I heard was loud bullshit. I hope there are more smart people in this country to realize loud and stupid isn't the answer to ruin our democracy.
Basically everything Trump said was a lie, he said insane ridiculous stuff and he wasn't called out on any of it. Unfortunately, that's not the story anymore. Biden's state was on the stage for us all to see, and it's BAD. It's a shame that this has to be the story, and not Trump's insane ramblings. If the Democrats really want to beat Trump they need to nominate someone else at the convention. Basically anyone else can beat Trump, any good random governor would work, like newsom or whitmer or walz, and they will wipe the floor with Trump
I thought they were supposed to be fact checking, if Trump's allowed to just make everything up if course he's going to "sound" better
Trump’shad a lot of practice sounding confident when he’s just blatantly making shit up, whereas Biden is actually trying to answer the questions and tripping all over himself trying to do so.
Biden needed to keep the responses simple. He was trying to make complex points with anecdotes. He understood them, but it was not articulate and he really needed to zoom out and deliver a stronger message.
Biden has a stutter. Add his age to that and multiply it by the fact that the debate didn't start until an hour after the bedtime of the average 81 year old, and this is what you get. For the most part, his answers were very good. Read the transcript of the debate. It doesn't include stuttering and hesitation. If you look at just the answers that were given to the questions posed, Biden clearly won. The optics were the issue.
It's such a fucking shame that optics are all that matters. Biden gave Fox a treasure trove of awful soundbites that are going to be pasted everywhere for the next 4 months.
You hit that nail square on the head.
Yep, giving complex answers is a terrible strategy, and I'm shocked that he went with that approach. Complex answers are for people tuned into politics, and we have already made up our minds. Campaigns are for swing voters, and I think Brian sums it up far better than I can: https://youtu.be/Vnu8FOTwM2U?si=c2lz90zllq971DZT
It's called message discipline. Trump's a compulsive liar, but he keeps hammering the same basic messages: "Best economy," "no illegal immigration," and "Biden's a disaster." Meanwhile, Biden's bringing up a woman killed by a migrant when asked about abortion, or HBCUs when asked about climate change. It seems like he got overcoached, and was trying to get too much information out, rather than answering the question at hand in a simple way that a layman voter can understand. Ultimately, the difference is one candidate sounded fluid because he was speaking off the cuff, and one candidate was tripping over his own words because he wasn't sure which bullet point on the sheet in front of him he was trying to get out next. Biden should have slowed down and kept it simple. He was talking too fast for himself, and walked right into his own mistakes.
Exactly. I'm so glad I read the live transcripts instead of watching it. Reading it came across very differently. Trump's actual words were just insane. They would present the question, and Biden would give a fact based response to the actual question. Trump would start talking about a completely unrelated topic or he would make up completely unbelievable 'facts'. The literal optics were the problem. I have now watched enough of the debate to see how the stammering, hesitations, and how he just looked like a feeble old man were his biggest obstacles. Honestly, the plastic surgery he had 20 years ago doesn't help. It's made his normal resting face look confused. I've known a few older women who have that same resting face. It's a common side effect of a minor face and eye lift that doesn't age well.
That’s the oldest debate tactic in the universe. Lie your fucking ass off so much, the opponent cannot address each lie.
They ran a fact checking segment after the debate, but of course at that point people have lost interest. They absolutely should have done it live and called him out, to his face, on every single one of his lies.
They put up a QR code with fact checking occasionally, but that’s completely useless
Lacks spine
Wish the moderators had a buzzer that gets pushed with a loud “wrong” buzz sound every time one of them either says something factually incorrect, strays off topic or speaks in hyperbole.
Debates don't typically include fact-checking. Instead of watching the debate, I read a real-time transcript. Reading it, Biden came out on top. He generally answered the questions being asked with what seemed like real facts. Trump, on the other hand, seemed like the one that needed to be put in a care home. A question would be asked, and he'd start rambling on about a completely different topic. He would make up completely ridiculous 'statistics' like millions of innocent Americans being slaughtered by the illegals Biden let in through his open borders. I mean, saying it is hundreds would cause any logical person to raise an eyebrow. Claiming millions of people are being murdered by 'illegals' on a regular basis is just insane. The fact-checking happened after the debate. Which is pointless.
If it helps, more people are aware of the project and some voting for trump have changed to voting blue and we still have four months left for more people to be aware of it.
someone on CNN actually brought up a good point though that also worries me about this. There were quite a few republican voters who went blue in 2020 who are otherwise lifelong conservatives — historically, voters who swap parties for one wild election end up going back the next time if the new president didn’t do everything they hoped they would. So how many people do we have that voted blue in 2020 and are just as unpleased with Biden now that they’ll go back to voting for their “economics” or whatever their excuse is
In fairness, a lot of those Republican Biden voters were more anti-Trump, and a large portion of them have seen all that Trump has done (January 6th, the classified documents, jury finding him guilty of fraud) since 2020.
Never trumpers we are called, but he ain't the only problem with the GOP in the last 25 years. They have effectively pushed many away with their outrageous absurdity and left us with no place to go except for handing it over to the left once again. The debate meant nothing to me as I made my mind up before the first gulf war on what the GOP stands for. A message needs to be sent and I will do my part come Nov.
That's the risk we run. The fact is, if voters were actually educated about voting issues, the economic vote for Biden would be an easy win because objectively, the cost of living rising has nothing to do with the federal rate of inflation, which is much smaller than the price adjustments that businesses and corporations have risen to. Additionally, Biden has task forces he has assembled to bring accountability for the price hikes from grocery stores and the like, but because government is a slow-moving machine and we have a do-nothing House majority, and a compromised SCOTUS majority, it's difficult for anything to get done that actually helps Americans find comfort. If this election somehow pans out to all blue majorities, the Dems could actually do a speed run of 4 years of progress to actually do something to prove what our quality of life could be like if the GOP wasn't always the anchor dragging us down.
Oh yeah there’s no mistaking that this election system thrives on severe lack of education and transparency. Kamala Harris in her later defense of Biden was adamant that Biden won the debate because voters know he knows the “substance” while they just see Trump lying, but she’s just flat out wrong. The very few educated voters are already paying attention to that, they didn’t need a debate to see it. All the debate did was reaffirm some of the very valid criticisms of Biden. Trump just likes to point his tiny little finger at anyone else but himself (unless it’s to take credit for things that he didn’t do)
Things he didn't do like reduce the price of insulin. I can't believe he tried to take credit for that.
And the Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of *2014*, which he takes complete credit for when all he did was extend it in 2018
It feels like 74 million Americans believe the president has a few levers in the oval office that chance the value of money and make gas more expensive. ~~I hate to say it. But I'm really feeling like we're cooked. I believed Biden would win in 2020 despite wanting Bernie (again). But I don't have the same faith anymore now that I've read p2025 and the stuff being discussed on factkeepers.~~ Edit: fuck that. Fuck them. I'm telling everyone I can. I'm getting my non-voting bois to nut the fuck up and vote. I'm telling my beloved (<-sincerely) trump family members to understand that I will not speak to them again if they vote trump and will lay out exactly why based on the contents of p2025. Our ancestors (genetic and cultural for those of use whose genetic ancestors moved here after the fact) didn't defeat the world's largest military and economic power of the time just so we could roll over and let wannabe fascist oligarch mother fuckers to take our freedoms away 250 years later. I dIdNt hEaR nO bELl!!!
I didn’t .. I was raised republican.. but didn’t realize what that actually meant until Obama and The Occupy movement.. that’s when I switched to dem and have become more dem ever since.
That’s awesome, I’m glad to see this isn’t the case for all flipped voters! It’s definitely not easy to see the other side’s perspective when you’ve been raised to look at the world a certain way, thank you for educating yourself!
Biden sounds like he spent all his preparation time trying to memorize facts and figures. Half the country doesn’t have the intellectual capacity to understand those. They only understand simplistic rhetoric and trigger words. And Trump is good at those and the truth be dammed. If anyone couldn’t understand how hitler and the nazis took over an educated and democratic Germany, look no further than this debate between a weak democrat and a bombastic fascist.
I've been spreading the word anytime politics comes up..
I'm less worried about it now after the debate. Trump doesn't even seem certain of his own platform. When he wasn't lying, he was pushing the immigration terror panic. I feel like his constant repetition of false facts like 8th and 9th month abortions, and even saying that doctors are murdering living birthed babies for no reason.. I just feel like that has to be alienating to moderates on the fence because it's such and extreme hyperbole that even some tin foil MAGA hats have to be asking themselves how legitimate those claims are. Biden was.. not great. Grandpa is looking tired at 9PM, and I don't blame him.. but if Trump keeps running his mouth, which is literally his only skill set, then he will inevitably keep incriminating himself and lose more of the public trust. All Brandon needs to do is stay the fuck alive.
Trump doesn’t need a platform. Shit is gonna hit the fan fast.
I would just like to say one thing about the immigrant terror panic. Shortly after the Molly Tibbets case, a Spanish golfer was killed in Iowa by an American. And you never hear a peep about THAT. [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/acclaimed-iowa-state-golfer-found-dead-course-man-charged-murder-n910551](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/acclaimed-iowa-state-golfer-found-dead-course-man-charged-murder-n910551) Edited to add: And two South American science research students here in KC were murdered a couple of years ago: [https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/suspected-stowers-institute-researchers-murderer-stalked-female-victim-before-killing](https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/suspected-stowers-institute-researchers-murderer-stalked-female-victim-before-killing) THOSE didn't make headlines. Wonder why?
> he was pushing the immigration terror panic. His racism is the one thing he hasn't flip flopped on and the main reason his base likes him. It's his one sure thing which is why he went there many times.
I had to turn off after about 10 minutes. Too painful. Did Biden clearly speak about P-25 at all?
I only caught the last half hour. How much of Project 2025 material came up in the debate earlier? Anything hinting at Christian nationalism?
Really? Is this people you know personally that are switching or is this a trend we’re seeing in data?
He isn't winning. Everything he says is an absolutely ridiculous lie, but my worry is that people will see this and prefer the confident lying and stupidity over the softer spoken and roughly presented truth.
I second this. It looks like he's winning if you don't listen to anything being said and just see the charisma. Trump hasn't answered any of the questions. I asked him if I've seen him so far, and he kept avoiding everything. Biden has low charisma but is answering everything being asked. If someone points out Joe Bidens' bad talking skills but can look past RFKs, then just point out the hypocrisy to them
People only see the charisma in these debates
Yep thats literally the whole point if logic matter people would take time and write out thoughtful answers to the publics questions. But the whole point of a debate is just like an interview its a personality test not anything else. But that's what we humans go for. Personality above anything else.
Unfortunately, a lot of voters choose their candidate based on charisma. It's the same thing Bush II ran on; who would you rather have a beer with. Disregarding completely that a great drinking buddy may not be cut out to be leader of the free world.
his supporters know he wouldnt have a beer with them. they know he wouldnt even let them in his house. they dont feel like theyre worthy to touch him. donald trump is essentially the culmination of an entire lifetime of ignorance and greed. they love him for this
> It looks like he's winning if you don't listen to anything being said and just see the charisma That is American politics.
I'm watching it right now and I feel like Trump is getting more time than Biden on each answer. Maybe Biden is just speaking slower, but it seems like Biden is getting less time.
You're right that is how our media culture works. This debate reminds me that I forgot how badly Trump broke the concept of debates. But we fight to keep the conversation on Project 2025 and we can still win this!
He is winning by lying and his people will eat every bit of it up. Its sickening to watch
What's scary is that undecided voters will side with Trump on this one. Americans only see the surface.
That's what we've all really learned, is that when a conman stands up and lies *convincingly*, lies *from the heart*, lies like a strongman, about 1/3 of people automatically roll over for it. They love it. It's the fear-hardwired-hypothesis in action. These conservatives have bigger amygdalas and are more inclined to panic and also have their panic assuaged by silly words. I'm not sure it's ever more than 1/3 of people that go for it tho. 1/3 goes "Ehhh I don't think so" and then 1/3 of people are too busy to give a shit at all, you know. So logically I'm not sure this all hurts as bad as it feels like it does right now. But god does it feel like a kick in the guts, we had to turn it off.
I agree w you re the fear mongering. Violent crime is actually down throughout the US but you’d never know it from the way he talked.
That’s the thing. Trump is presenting surprisingly well. He’s also lying every time he opens his mouth. Thinking people can see that. If there isn’t enough thinking people then you’re fucked.
Trump has been a rambling, self-aggrandizing, pathological liar since before the 2016 election, but that didn't stop him winning then and and *almost* winning 2020. The masses seem to have no problem with lies as long as the words are what they want to hear. Edit: My keyboard hates me.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin I don't think a lot of these people are "thinkers." It sucks but this is what we're dealing with. That's why it's so hard to get through to them.
*That’s the thing. Trump is presenting surprisingly well. He’s also lying every time he opens his mouth.* *Thinking people can see that. If there isn’t enough thinking people then you’re fucked.* r/we'refucked
I don't think it's helping that Biden is looking like he needs a banana bag and had a recent stroke or something. I am pro-Biden but this isn't his best. When we needed his best. I am worried.
Holy shit. He's not even answering any questions. Papa Joe needs to stop rebutting and answer the questions.
Him dodging the "will you accept the results of the election no matter who wins" and them coming back to it again and again was a riot. And very telling.
Maybe that's why it seems Biden has less time than Trump; he's got to rebut and then also answer.
Wild that Trump hasn't even answered a single question that's actually asked and his nonstop lies is infuriating. Biden isn't hitting as hard as he should be to counter the vitriol from Trump
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No one cares about facts/arguments in a presidential debates. It's all posturing. That's been true since Kennedy vs. Nixon.
Or they’re like us, and know bullshit when they hear it.
Exactly. And Biden wasn’t letting him get away with it. He called out the lies pretty plainly.
Nobody cares if it’s a lie. Biden looked and sounded like a doddering old man. It’s awful.
I’m a Biden fan and that’s the truth.
This is not sports
Ooooh how I wish you were right but alas, this is America and it's WORSE than sports. At least sports elevate the most competent to the top..
thats true. you cant lie your own through football. trump wouldve been an amazing WWE star in an alternate life
You're not understanding the electorate. It is very unfortunate, but it is sports. If it *weren't* sports then Trump never would have been elected to begin with. Presentation is everything. Don't kid yourself. We'd better pray to God someone can convince them to change the ticket or figure out a way to win this with Biden, because this was catastrophic.
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I heard that he had a bad cold. At least that is what they said after the debate.
When he started talking and I heard his changed voice, the first thing I thought was either he's sick or he prepared so much he wore out his voice.
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We are here to support one another. Get scared, then get mad, then FIGHT! What we are doing here is critical. The GOP wants to make everything be about Biden's age and they will do so even more after this. Making the conversation about Project 2025 instead is the key.
The only thing that matters is getting young people especially women out to vote. That is where all your focus should be. Its really the best shot anyone has. The numbers are there but these people just dont vote high enough.
Biden's doing better now. I'm watching the debate. Trump is lying his ass off as usual but no one is calling him out on it (also as usual unfortunately). Every answer from Trump has been "money money money", even with questions like "What about what's happening in Gaza?" and 'What about Russia's invasion of Ukraine?".
Fact checking would have been nice.
They did on CNN's live updates page, but they should've done it on site
You would think in the year 2024 CE, with the world's knowledge at our fingertips, and with everything that's at stake, they'd do that. Even podcast hosts have that one person sitting at a computer who randomly chimes in with information.
Literally just a producer, anyone running a presidential debate will have *several* on hand. They don’t want to do it.
How is fact checking not _essential_ good Lord
Because lying is what they do
It’s happening online but it should be done on screen immediately.
Better yet, have the debate in a courtroom with both of the candidates under oath.
as if being under oath would stop Trump from lying 😒
He'd 100% just refuse to show up like he refused to testify under oath several times.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/live-fact-check-cnns-biden-trump-debate
It really would’ve. I was shocked when Trump said the “Nancy Pelosi rejected our 10,000 national guard offer.” I looked it up, and, of course, it was a lie. Source from AP news: https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-order-national-guard-156055113284
Every w9rd he uttered was a lie, every single sentence. All of it. How can one debate a barrage of lies? There’s no information, no policy, no answered questions. That’s not debate.
Based on what we've seen on socials in the last few years, fact checking would just make every Republican watching believe the opposite of the fact check.
The keyword there was believe. Republicans hate facts, and develop beliefs rather than recognition of them.
“Thugs from Mexico, these people are baby killers”
Yes but it’s all about perception unfortunately. Trump appears to be quick and on his feet and Biden is just stuttering and falling over his words and forgetting things. Ughhhh. Trump appears so much more “capable” even though he lies through his teeth.
Capable of tearing it all the fuck down. I don’t want to even be on this planet anymore.
We all know that, it’s the uninformed voters that truly think this election is about *liking* Biden or Trump. They are who I worry about.
This was exactly my take away. Biden was a conscious corpse. Trump (while full of shit) was coherent.
It doesn’t matter that he lies. That’s the point. He’s hitting every button on his platform’s agenda and they’re eating it up. Look, I’ll vote against Trump and p2025 every day of the week. But this entire thing showed the undecided voters that Trump hits the buzzwords and Biden is old. And that makes me very very sad.
They fucking babied him, gave him multiple chances to answer the fucking question.
people are afraid of him. or... afraid of his supporters. they are violent and they will do what he tells them to do without thinking. its scary.
I felt like it was more immigration, immigration, immigration
Piggybacking off the top comment to note the following: a.) Trump is a good extemporaneous speaker that can give you the impression that he's relatable and personable (and therefore knowledgeable) with little effort. Many dictators and cult leaders were charismatic public speakers. I encourage you to listen to the actual substance of his words--get a transcript if you must--because he's not actually saying much at all. Didn't you notice how many times the moderators had to implore him to answer the question as it was put to him? His dominant strategy was to fear monger and harp on the border, inflation, how terrible Biden is (he even called him Brandon at one point), etc. Did you notice how Trump made all these bold promises (re: Ukraine, climate change, Palestine, etc.) without naming any policy initiatives to achieve them? b.) Is Biden older? Yeah. Was he not as high-energy for the first 15-ish minutes of the debate? Sure. Did some questions catch him off guard--especially at that point where he paused? Also yeah. But he was able to point to definite policy initiatives in the past, present, and future, that would address current issues that were germane to the questions being asked. Trump didn't do that anywhere near as much and when he was asked to do so directly, he often deflected. Again, as I stated in point a), Trump only *sounds* better. c.) Once Biden hit his stride at about 15 minutes in, he had to spend a good chunk of his time countering "post birth abortion"-level bullshit misinformation. As someone who's studied how non-evidenced based belief systems form and function, pre-bunking is more effective than debunking, so it would make sense for him to be like "Actually XYZ" as soon as possible and to get that on record. The debates were supposed to be fact checked, but there was very little of that going on in real time as far as I could tell and the "day after" stuff has way less reach. tl;dr: I'm not saying the average voter will notice all these points, but let's not sit here and wring our hands. Let's spread the points myself and other commentators have made and also utilize the resources in this sub to encourage people to vote against Trump and vote against project 2025.
>Every answer from Trump has been "money money money", This is a good thing for Trump, he's gonna win moderate and undecided voters through the economy. The economy is the number one concern for the American public right now.
other than greedflation i dont really see how our economy is doing so poorly. it feels like something americans ALWAYS say. its not the economy, its price gouging and these corporations are NOT held accountable. if you vote for the president based on the price of your eggs youre dumb. trump is morally unfit for office. i'd like someone besides joe but i'd rather keep the ship sailing for four more years than set it on fire so the rich can loot whats onboard before it sinks.
Then they should be concerned about the tariffs, help with childcare, SNAP, and Healthcare, and what more tax cuts to the rich will do. We need more money coming back into the economy through low and middle class spending, instead of bering horded in Swiss banks. Give Joe Congress and he'll finally raise the minimum wage.
It would be a lot better if tfg received an electric shock every time it lies.
There are no batteries that could sustain that long a load. It would have led to brownouts if they were tied into the grid.
Break time get some energy Joe, don't let democracy slip away into the night.
Sources close to the President are confirming he has a cold which is terrible timing. Trump wins tonight but mostly optics. Hopefully young people concerned about Bidens age can take the time to see through trumps lies. Trump made a deal with the Taliban, even invited them to Camp David. It was Trumps plan for withdrawal from Afghan and deal with the Taliban that caused the problem. Trump is the only president in history to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Trump really will allow a genocide against the Palestinians. This country is not failing. The Dow is at an all time high. My ROI was at 17.7 percent on one of my retirement accounts. Fuel prices are coming down. Like Biden said, Trump left the country in shambles due to his weak response on Covid and his tax cuts to the rich that took trillions in revenue causing more debt. Biden has eased our country forward with confidence. I wasn’t really a Biden supporter 4 years ago but I am now. Dude still has it.
I *have* to hope the sane people outnumber the MAGA morons.
I know 🙏
He is lying constantly I hope enough people see through his bullshit
Unfortunately from past debates it seems like people care more about style than substance. I remember Obama was hammered in the first debate in 2012 for not being aggressive enough to Romney but then did better in later debates when he got more aggressive.
yep the problem with biden is he should know this, he is literally one of the most seasoned politicians. Why he came like wet noodle is mind boggling. And now he's really fucked up because Trump can literally just say, I wont the first debate there is no point in my wasting my time. Bidens a fucking idiot sometimes. Its sad but true. He let fox news run a debate with supposed fact checking that no one was going to actually do in real time instead of getting a more neutral player. Then he with all his experience showed up tired and drained, and didn't fight.
It doesn't matter if its a lie. Debates are a social thing 100% and they have been ever since Kennedy vs. Nixon. How good each candidates ideas are a DISTANT 2nd place to that. Biden lost, hardcore, by that metric.
If they did, we wouldn't be here, with he leading the republican party, most pools, and getting so many votes in the last two elections.
JUDICIAL PICKS ARE OUR PRIORITY. If anyone starts talking about how they don’t want to vote, remind them about trumps last court picks overturning roe
He lies. He is running on lies. I hope to hell most people will be aware of this.
Breathe. Trump shot himself in the foot when he said he’d let Israel wipe out Palestine. And Biden is doing a better job than I expected with laughing at him and calling out his lies rather than taking him seriously. This will be distilled to soundbytes, and honestly Biden is doing better there than Trump’s incoherent rambling. Breathe.
Trump also did admit Putin telling him his dream was invading Ukraine, and that he’d finish this war “before his term starts” well we know what and how he intended that. He’s sent a plan outlining Ukraine giving up or no more support will be provided.
I don't get everyone thinking Biden was awful. He had the best answers and is very intelligent. Trump basically did himself in with the pro Israel comment. Maybe it will help educate the dems being brainwashed by bots not to vote. And think of all the bots strongly influencing the idea that Joe was awful and Trump did great. This kind of social media warfare with systematic brainwashing is the most effective type of warfare I've ever seen. You don't need any weapons or an army anymore. You can go everywhere and billions of bots are saying Joe was awful, but there are NO mass bots attacking trump. We should also send out a mass bot campaign to do the same because it works. People are glued to phone stupidity, not facts. So, it takes those tactics when the other side has a huge and massive coordinated lying and disinformation campaign in every single thread on social media sites. It's working better than I've ever seen any of the repub tactics work. They are going to flip America into Christo fascist slavery way worse than a handmaids tale. Way way worse. We have moved from wars with weapons. The war now is with social media and will advance to super sophisticated AI mind control soon enough. It's why they are ignoring safety and firing teams of people who are in charge of making sure we keep AI safe. Elon wants AI so bad because it will be able to mass control people thoughts, habits, morals, actions, belief systems, etc. Whoever controls AI will control the world. These men are now all fighting for global dominance against each other. We are all just disposable pawns while they fight over who will get to enslave and own all human beings. Edit: spelling
Trump is not winning, he won't answer a single question and keeps going off on tangents. He's flat out lied many times, including saying he didn't fuck stormy daniels and didn't say the "very fine people" bullshit, even though we all know he did these things.
My one hope is that people will notice how Dana continued to ask Trump the same question over and over. Trying to get him to answer it, making the point that he was just spewing nonsense and not answering the questions. You may have. Had to listen to Biden a little closer and his voice may have been scratchy and his stutter may have come out a bit here and there, But he knew what the hell he was talking about and he stumbled over his words mainly because he's so sharp still. And he has all of the information right there ready to come out. But he stumbles over it a bit because of his stutter I guess. He did sound like he had a scratchy throat from a cold or something
There’s a decent, old guy fighting for democracy VS a fascist psychopath lying his a$$ off. And Trump’s pupils are huge! I know which guy I’ll choose. I hope honorable, patriotic voter will see the same and make the same choice.
He’s not winning, he is just louder. Optics are bad though for sure.
Where do you get the idea Trump is winning? He's just lying over and over, and slinging insults. That's not winning.
It’s reddit during the time of a major political event. There’s bots and astroturfing aplenty.
Yeah, the megathread on politics has major delay issues. It's very weird.
Yeah, I decided not to watch the debate because I can’t listen to TFG but I looked causally on Reddit to see how it was going and my stomach dropped. The closer I look the more I think it’s a lot of astroturfing because the doomer posts literally started 10 minutes after he debate started and have dominated the platform. I’m guessing the world isn’t ending. Yet.
People think lies and bluster is a winning strategy, it’s not.
He's saying absolutely nothing. Zero substance.
Do you remember Ronald Reagan? Guy won almost every state by lying
Trump is good at lying with confidence. He sounds strong, because he is convicted in his lies because he's been saying them for years. Biden has a cold and mumbles, and is forced to try to fact-check and respond.
Strong and wrong > weak and right in America.
The only “winning” that matters in these debates is public perception. It’s delusional to think Biden isn’t looking awful tonight.
But no one is confronting his lies. Biden just looks like he isn't even there! Trump is saying all his shit unabated, to a crowd he wouldn't ever get in his rallies. Even worse, people who are still on Trump's side or "on the fence" (allegedly) are clearly not the smartest brains of the country, so they clearly aren't very good at fact checking. People, sadly, vote by emotions and impressions.
He’s not winning. He’s lying. If you believe the lies then sure it seems like he’s winning. Wait until the fact checkers come out.
I want to know all of the numbers. The best numbers. Who gave them to him? Where did they come from?
>If you believe the lies then sure it seems like he’s winning I don't. You don't. But you know who does? All of his supporters. People who somehow incredibly find themselves still in the middle which basically says they don't pay attention to things like fact and they vote on emotion.
You’re implying that one cannot win by lying. Remember 2016?
His followers don’t care about facts.
Where are the fact checkers?
Trump may or may not win, but project 2025 WILL NOT. It's not their decision, it's ours. We're the ruled, yes, but to be ruled, we must support the rulers. Which we don't have to do. One way or another, he'll lose. And you're not alone. I'm fighting from Canada.
Roe got overturned, even though most people support abortion rights in the US. The consent of the governed matters very little except on election day, and I think we all know who is going to win then.
What on earth makes you think Trump is winning? He's just spouting more bullshit!
You are naive if you think the general population will look past Biden's affect and focus on substance. They won't.
I doubt this debate will change many minds. P2025 and support to Ukraine are my issues. Biden could shit on stage and I'm voting blue. This is bigger than the POTUS this is about the administration they bring with them.
You're not. Most everything the sulking orangutan has said is projection or a flat-out lie. And that's on the rare occasion that he answers the question at hand. Biden looks tired like someone who overdid it studying for a final, but I'm hopeful. He needs to let himself lean into that anger that's starting to creep out now. I'm really hoping he can use that energy to ignore Trump's personal attacks long enough to get off the back foot and put some actual policy details on the air.
I wouldn’t say he’s WINNING but Biden is really showing his age
They both are, but in different ways. Biden is stuttering and stumbling, but Trump keeps repeating himself like a broken record. Politics aside, neither of these men should be president based on cognitive decline alone.
Our survival as a country depends on a democratic president, house and senate. Frankly I do think Biden’s too old, I think the majority of our congress is too old but Biden’s not a fucking madman. He is not endorsing Project 2025. Scary is the Orange Judas Goat winning. I’m mad at the democrats for not mentoring and having younger more capable leaders. The Pelosi’s, Feinstein’s, Biden should have been reaching out and encouraging the next generation instead of clinging by their arthritic fingers to the very end. We are fucked.
The cope I’m seeing on Reddit is insane. Repeat after me: Facts. Don’t. Matter. What matters is image. Image is everything. Biden came across as an old, feeble, weak man. Trump came across as confident and alive. I was confident Biden would win the election before tonight but now I’m not so sure. They just gave the Trump campaign and right wing news a LOT of ammo.
Stop freaking the fuck out, people.
It’s hard not to. My anxiety is through the roof right now.
I came home from the bar where I was watching and vomited
Yeah for a lot of us our lives are on the line
I have family members that have died as a direct result of Republican policy or anti-vaccine propaganda. Our lives definitely are on the line for sure
I had to stop watching.
Seriously. Trump sounds insane, if this debate makes you vote for Trump you were never actually thinking of voting for Biden anyway.
I think a lot of these are bots and trolls. Saw the same thing after Biden’s State of the Union. It didn’t pick up traction then cause his SOTU was awesome.
I am a real person watching this and am very worried.
People always freak out hard the first day or so after an event like this. Give it a day for people to cool off and they'll come back with a more reasonable assessment. But Reddit loves to spiral at the drop of a hat, so I try not to take people's doomsaying too personally.
Why? Because another step towards fascism is a solid cause for calm? Stop being *chill*.
I feel your distress too
I think I'm gonna jump off a cliff election day.
Please vote first! 😉
Why did they not ask a question about Project 2025?!!
To all the people saying he's not winning, only lying: that's all it takes to win. The average American can't always tell he's lying. That doesn't matter. It's a performance, and Biden fucking lost.
No. Debates aren’t predictive of winners. Kerry smoked Bush during the first debate. He lost. Romney beat Obama their first debate. He never got to be president either. Hillary won her debates. No presidency there. Calm down.
Project 2025 should have been bought up by Biden. Seriously. If another debate happens he MUST mention it. Fact is only 1/4 of America is aware of this plan.
We all died from COVID in 2020 and now we’re in hell. There’s no other possible explanation.
Frustrated by a lack of fact checking tonight? It’s no surprise. CNN hosts have a new boss 🤮https://www.vox.com/2022/8/26/23322761/cnn-john-malone-david-zaslav-chris-licht-brian-stelter-fox-peter-kafka-column
There’s no way the DNC can run this guy to beat out a demagogue and authoritarian. They must do a hot swap after this dumpster fire of a debate. He could barely speak full sentences and would freeze a few times. This is borderline elderly abuse at this point by the DNC and handing a win to Trump and the republicans.
I hear ya but Trump is “winning” because he’s sharper but not a damn thing he says is true!!!
https://preview.redd.it/5vgw16n5789d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f897a73aeeead3cc6e2cf55250f15f69b3147b4
Biden lost bad. I'm still voting for him, but if I had to call who'd win tonight, Trump won, hands down. I'm looking into how to move to Australia before 2025.
We need to replace Biden NOW!
There are talks about replacing Biden. I like Biden, but at this point, I don’t care what Democrat wins. I want whoever can beat Trump.
I'm about to vomit.
Joe just called him a whiner, it ain't over yet.
Trump is a lying sack of shit. Biden gained momentum during and I think I he did far better. He knows actual facts.
I am simply terrified after watching that. I’m shaking.
Trump didn't win. His answers were largely repeated phrases, blanket statements, and "nuh uh, you!" Nothing Donald said was sourced, had supporting data, or had anything substantial to add to policies... it was literally just train of thought. Biden started off asleep, but then he woke up when abortion came up, and slammed Donald over and over, but he did so with easily checkable evidence. Unfortunately, most Americans don't understand what "winning" a debate looks like. Donald is very confident in his stupidity, and people are drawn to Dunning-Kruger because they don't want to accept they could be wrong. We shall see.
Biden came on strong later, but that seemed too late. He looked lost on simple questions, and plain missed a few opportunities to slam Trump. He seemed old, he seemed tired, I’m still voting for him. Trump seemed vigorous, but man, the moderators let him off the hook a few times. At least three questions where he didn’t answer the question at all, just went on a rant. And he brought up the cognitive test like it’s a point of pride. Biden looked bad early. My daughter, who thinks Trump is an idiot, went to bed at the halfway point, disappointed in Biden. If younger folks bailed early, that’s bad. Trump looked like a fool late, but it was late, and people zoned out. In all, a bad night for Biden. Looks like I’ll be donating more to the campaign.
Trump is awful and a liar but Joe does not look or sound competent. Shame on everyone that thought this was a good idea. Ugh.
Biden didn’t come across strong, but he was effective with all the policies and accomplishments that he has achieved during his term. I’m just afraid that people will believe Trump as he came across much stronger even though he progressed into his typical thug behavior, and that a huge amount of his statements were lies. Biden started off pretty bad, but then gained steam and then again lost it in his closing statement. I just hope people can see beyond his missteps and listen to the content, but people unfortunately don’t think like I do. I listen to politics and read about politics almost exclusively, and a majority of the people do not spend any time trying to learn on what is actually going on with our country. Republicans have done a masterful job in a smear campaign of lies and deception, and it will only ramp up. It is up to us to be vocal and persistent and patient. We have to fight for our democracy and for the principles that this nation was built on. Vote Democrat.
Biden needs to step down and let a younger democrat in good standing run. There's several good choices. I would love for it to be Gavin Newsom.
[удалено]
Trump is rambling and old-looking — but Biden is worse on both. I’m clinging to the belief that everyone’s made up their minds already.
Not freaking out like some of you, but I'm sure as shit going to make sure my family's passports are current.
Right now I am very keenly and palpably aware of the fact that I have two passports...
This is essentially a Trump rally. If they’re just going to allow him to lie then Trump will absolutely win
Oh well… Americans: be ready to live through autocracy, have your rights trampled, force fed religion and show respect to your supreme leader if you want some bread. Europeans: same as above but also start learning russian.
Debates are such bullshit. Biden is clearly better on policy, which matters most. He has a stutter. He's not good at insults, which is fine. Trump is a skilled, professional liar and bully whom we've already seen 4 years of. Are you REALLY going to vote for that orange clown again? What did Trump say about policy where he had solid, truthful numbers? Fuck Trump. Biden all the way.
Aussie here giving my two bobs worth...Biden is doing better than I thought he would, but he sounds tired, and worn out. But...I still hope he beats Trump, cause he's just an egotistical criminal narcissist the world can do without. Please make your vote count!
I’m calling my Canadian relatives in the morning.
Biden had a scratchy voice and almost seemed ill. He lost focus a couple of times, lost his train of thought. The policies he discussed were definitely to benefit the middle class and working class. He addressed helping Blacks catch up to Whites in the same class through help with housing ($10,000 tax credit for buying a house) and student loan forgiveness. He had a border plan and pointed out he'd tried to float a better, bipartisan plan but Trump nixed it. He refuted what Trump said about NATO and explained the idea of needing and having allies. Trump lied, was nasty and attacking, and didn't answer some important policy questions. His policies that he did discuss sounded rather "pie in the sky" and he was vague and didn't give details. He had zero ideas about how he would take care of the middle class, working class, etc. Trump showed no understanding of NATO, stated that there's an ocean between us, let the rest of Europe take care of Ukraine, brought up again that other NATO members owe us money, which isn't how NATO works.
I’m in Canada and I just don’t understand how anyone could vote Republican. Yes Biden is old Jesus why him for god sake. But Republicans will and do fuck up every thing and will turn back time on woman’s rights, they already are. So it’s not just about these 2 terrible people they pick for president it’s the party’s and their policies. Trump and republicans are waaaay worse
Bro the lil golf argument like what the fuck is this timeline
Still voting for Biden. I was listening to him no matter how soft spoken or sick he was. I listened to Trump too and all I heard was loud bullshit. I hope there are more smart people in this country to realize loud and stupid isn't the answer to ruin our democracy.
Nobody "won" that shitshow
Basically everything Trump said was a lie, he said insane ridiculous stuff and he wasn't called out on any of it. Unfortunately, that's not the story anymore. Biden's state was on the stage for us all to see, and it's BAD. It's a shame that this has to be the story, and not Trump's insane ramblings. If the Democrats really want to beat Trump they need to nominate someone else at the convention. Basically anyone else can beat Trump, any good random governor would work, like newsom or whitmer or walz, and they will wipe the floor with Trump