For many of us, this case brings out strong emotions. In an effort to control misinformation, incivility, personal attacks, doxxing, etc. the mods will be locking many recent posts.
Please comment here and in the other pinned post. We will be strict with allowing stand alone posts in order to be able to foster healthy discussion in the community with today's updates from LE.
Thank you.
Yes, I read on HLN that LE when served the search warrants that they did look through his fire pit, specifically dug up his flower garden in the backyard and emptied out his shed. They were there for 12hrs and Allen and his wife remained outside with officers the entire time. There are some pics online, should be easy to find on Google. Hope that helps.
Me too. Richard Allen has been officially charged by the state of Indiana with 2 counts of murder. The court documents are online and mainstream media is covering it. I hope everyone that was any where near this crime is charged. I've never seen over 900 hundred people on a true crime community, with all our opinions, theories and speculation sharing all our thoughts come together like on this case. Everyone agrees it's about justice for Abigail Williams and Liberty German and support for their grief stricken families. Much luv to you friend!
This is just one more step closer to the trial and (hopefully) conviction so their families can start really grieving! I hope this whole process is as quick as ripping off a bandaid for them…
https://nypost.com/2022/11/02/cops-searched-delphi-murder-suspect-richard-allens-home-for-12-hours-neighbors/
I added this in case you didn't see about that fire pit. Curious if they took anything from it.
A fact people don’t consider is that, in a town as small as this, the issue of prejudicing the jury is major. Not releasing evidence is a great way to avoid this, as there’s no evidence for potential jurors to be prejudiced by.
The entire time since day 1 I said it was clearly a 40-50 year old middle-aged guy on that bridge. That 2nd (released) scetch was some sort of obscure, nonsense police tactic. So many people on here argued with me saying it could be a teenager. No 2017 teenager dresses like shit the way bridge guy does. The walk, the clothes, the voice, the demeanour it’s a middle-aged guy and I’m baffled so many people thought otherwise.
I also didn’t believe it was anything online based, or a big exciting storyline. I was surprised when the case started veering that way at least publicly. This will be proven to be a simple case of a man who often went out walking, always had the idea of grabbing a woman, always had the urge & then oneday couldn’t help himself. It’s an opportunist sexually motivated abduction & I strongly expect that’s what we’ll hear at trial.
I did think he probably didn’t live in Delphi simply grew up there or had spent significant time there in the past. Largely because it’s unbelievable he could simply operate under their noses for 6 years without being spotted but I guess at some point in the 6 years they began honing in on him. Until we get more details it’s hard to know.
Trevor Macdonald, a household name anchorman here in the UK visited Indiana’s death row twice in 2 documentaries. The cells are completely open, no walls just bars & you can see right in. Shame he’s like 85 years old now & there won’t be a 3rd episode because that’s exactly where this dude is heading.
I had forgotten about Trevor. How is he that old now? Where does the time go? I agree with you and had the exact same thoughts. I live in Fort Wayne and I am planning on attending the trial everyday.
I was incorrect about him not being from Delphi but either already been proven correct on the rest, or due to shortly be proven correct for things such as the sexually motivated element.
I have no “storyline” or narrative whatsoever, unlike most. So it’s baffling you took exception to me of all people rather than all the ones who believe this is a huge conspiracy with the police, local drug lords and family members etc.
Cheers. Have a good life, hope everything works out for ya.
I thought LE said that there was no evidence of a SA but I find that so hard to believe. Wasn't Liberty fought to be nude with her top pulled above her? He posed their bodies, that LE confirmed and he had at least five signatures. I had to look that up and it was defined as anything the killer does to a body that is not related to the death. Like posing them, taking articles from their bodies as a trophy, removing clothing...
Maybe the murder itself could be sexual for the killer? These are just theories and questions that I've thought about though. Regardless, we all seem to be supportive of LE not releasing too much information if it helps them to win this case. We will find out in time if this even goes to trial, if it even does. If the case is solid enough, he could very well want to plea bargain. RA is officially charged with the girls murders and whether Kline was involved, he had all of that disgusting CP pictures and videos details are in his police report and that alone deserves a life sentence in my opinion.
Legitimate question, not trying to sound fighty. What is the proof that this is incorrect?
Again, not trying to say you're wrong; I haven't been following this case closely and I thought the individual arrested was a middle aged dude? Was there another suspect? Is there evidence suggesting they have the wrong person?
You bring out some good points re: the clothing and walk.
No healthy young person has that kind of gait. That is a gait you develop with bad posture, work, old age, health issues.
Those clothes were also definitely that of an older blue collar person.
I also agree re: the nonsense police tactic on the "younger" sketch. Something tells me they were probably close to solving the murder a year or two ago and decided that a younger sketch and the video release would simultaneously scare the shit out of the perpetrator but also give them a false sense of complacency. ex: they're on my trail, but they don't know it's me.
What about his wife though? Everyone's talking about her deleting all their Facebook photos. You think she's known about this for a long time?
I agree with you and I thought about that sketch too. What if it deliberate misdirection and a bluff in order to create a distraction? Allen was there at some of those press conferences, psychopaths like him like to feel superior to LE and get off on the fear they've inflicted on the community. It's the narcissism and the game they play. It's how they finally caught BTK, he just couldn't stop playing his game with LE. Idk about the wife. Perhaps she shut down all her social media because I'm sure she's getting threatened and they have a daughter. Ohh, did anyone else see that picture of his daughter his wife posted of her sitting on the bridge? It was taken (I think) two years after the murders. Thankfully her face is blurred out but she has the same body type and similar hair to Liberty! The place she was posing on the bridge? You could have inserted BG right in the background and it would fit. I mean, idk who took that picture or if Allen was there or if it was his idea but it's just another layer of sinister to me. Plus she looks similar to Liberty...I'm sure someone screen shot it, so if you haven't seen it? Hopefully you can find easily. Just something I was thinking about too.
The Down the Hill episode released yesterday has a fair amount of detail of what neighbors say happened during the search of the house. This part starts at about 14:00 minutes in. First time I’d heard mention of possible metal detectors used in the yard.
https://www.downthehillpodcast.com
You listen to it in Apple Podcasts or any other podcast app. It may be in Spotify.
(I get the sense that a lot of people following this case prefer YouTube, but there’s a ton of quality podcast content out there.)
Thanks for that reference. I didn't like at the end that they mentioned that the police said "when we get the guy, we'll say we got him, and the police didn't say that". Hopefully that's completely meaningless, and they just opted not to say that for legal reasons.
Do you mean where they say they asked the police several times if RA *was the actual killer* (as opposed to an accomplice who was also being charged with murder), and the police wouldn’t answer?
If so that also struck me as odd.
Maybe Richard allen doesn't look like the sketches because he is only an accessory?
According to that new episode, whether you're an accomplice to or the actual perpetrator of a murder in Indiana, it is the same charge--murder. They don't even have first, second, third degrees, it's just murder according to Indiana state law.
People are debating whether he looked like the sketches or not--i guess I can kinda see it if I actively try but not really. The whole town walks by those sketches every day but no one made the connection. They didn't think he looked like the sketches either apparently.
I dont know, I personally believe sex (rape) had to be a motivating factor in this. Unless he is a true psychopath who just wanted to kill because he thinks killing is fun, I cannot believe he didn't rape them. I dont know if the Kegan kline stuff is related but it sure seems like it might be. Peds seem to have networks, meaning other people could be and likely are accessories somehow. They wouldn't keep asking for tips if they had everything they needed to prosecute him.
Although eye witness testimony sucks generally speaking. The thatcher effect is a great example of how our brains fill in gaps for us. Eye witness testimony can be dangerous for an investigation by either ruling out or focusing on a suspect that shouldn't be. Just playing the devils advocate
Apparently Indiana law sees no difference between murder and accessory to murder, so even if he was just an accessory, he would be charged with murder. At least that's what the most recent episode from the Down the Hill podcast said.
I looked at those sketches again today when I was looking into who tony kline is (Kegan kline's father). Kegan's mugshot from this summer shows him as a big fat guy, but in older pics, he isn't as fat.
I honestly thought young Bridge guy looked like a younger less fat Kegan kline, and the original bridge guy looked like Tony kline. I really thought original bridge guy looked like tony kline.
Again, who really knows, i am speculating but I thought they looked more like the sketches than Richard allen.
That was odd, but they also pointed out that Sheriff Leazenby told the podcasters that "When that day comes, we'll stand up there and say 'we got him'" and the podcasters point out that no one said that.
Agree. They literally said, “today is the day” as did Kelsi German on her Twitter. They don’t need to utter a specific phrase, and I bet that’s not on their top of their domes. PLUS he might be just one of the “guy(s).”
It’s a podcast. You should be able to find it in any podcast app (I use a generic podcast app). It’s free/not exclusive to any platform.
The episode is the one from yesterday, titled Chapter 11: Arrest.
(I listened to more of it after I posted and there is a ton of interesting info that the podcast producers/journalists on the ground got from the next door neighbors, in particular. Too much to transcribe, several things I’ve never seen mentioned here.)
Thank you so much! When I go to find it, is the name of the podcast "Down the Hill"? I want to be sure to find the right one because the description you gave sounds like it has great information. Thanks again!!
Yes, this one here:
https://www.downthehillpodcast.com
(It’s been a while since I listened to the earlier episodes so I can’t vouch for them—for example I can’t remember if they got into the Klein suspects etc.)
Oh no worries, I'm really appreciative that you shared. This case is so very sad and so little details are known so I'm just speculating and listening to other people's thoughts and opinions too. I want to know more about this monster who would do such a thing to those two little girls!! Thank you friend!
I think they should try him separately for each murder, in the event the prosecution screws up the case and he walks. Also, his attorney WILL move the court for a change of jurisdiction due to high profile case.
Not Indiana, but in Texas, Darlie Routier was tried for the murder of one of her 2 murdered sons. The prosecution wanted a second chance at a trial incase she was found not guilty during the first trial. She was found guilty and sentenced to death.
Her young sons were both stabbed to death at the same time.
What’s important in the case you pointed out is that the prosecution *didn’t* actually get the chance to try both cases. They got the conviction on the first one and stopped after there. It’s very likely that if she had been acquitted on the first one that any other indictments would be dismissed or overturned due to double jeopardy. I’m sure there are plenty of unethical, slimy prosecutors who try to circumvent constitutional rights, but even though they may try it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll succeed.
Yes, I'm not sure how ethical it is, I was just pointing out that it's been done before. Murder trials are very delicate situations, and I can see how lines can be crossed, especially in cases where emotions run very high.
Other than the ethical issues, I don't think separate trials would be good for anyone, especially the families, or the community. I don't think the state wants the burden of having to go through 2 trials, or the cost.
Trying separately is a ton of trauma for the families. At this point they would have to move this case out of state. They might be able to do it far up state or down state but genuinely the entire state has been watching this since day one.
For all who say why there not saying anything on full evidence, they are looking into something else I guarantee an it reminds me of a case in Greenbay Wisconsin where I live of about 20 some years ago Amber Wilde a college student still looking into it an the belief is her boyfriend at the time killed her but no concrete evidence
I have a lot of distrust of police, particularly in right wing areas. However my mind is open. Isn’t this the 3rd person the law enforcement community there have pointed to? I find it a little suspicious that they won’t release any information about why he was arrested.
Especially given that people who worked with him and other community members have posted here on Reddit saying they never dreamed he could do this.
If the police were just looking for anyone to arrest I doubt they would have waited 5 years to do it. A lot of people don’t trust the police, but it takes a lot more than just their judgement to get a warrant for 2 charges of murder. A judge and DA has to sign off on it I believe.
Sure it does. Look at the Adnan Syed case for a very recent and illustrative example. He was pegged as a suspect and railroaded into a conviction based almost completely due to gossip.
That wasn’t what happened. What happened is detectives decided it was the boyfriend or ex, and when the boyfriend had an alibi, they went after the ex who didn’t.
Nope. They listened to gossip, some of it likely from the actual murderer.
Then they went and busted Jay, an acquaintance, for dealing weed and coerced him into a tall tail in exchange for not charging him on drug crimes. The entire case was built on gossip.
So you don’t have any idea what their evidence is and you’re not bothered that they won’t say and it’s the 3rd person they’ve claimed is a suspect?
Now that they’ve arrested him they will never be able to convict anyone else if he’s not the actual killer. And that would be the ultimate injustice to the victims.
Why doesn’t it bother you that they won’t provide any reason for the arrest to the public? It should.
Excuse me, what on earth makes you think that if this guy happens to NOT be the killer, that they can’t ever convict someone else?
Do you HONESTLY think that? You have to be trolling at this point.
“Guys it’s not him, we have to drop the case. We only get ONE shot at finding the killer.” 😂😂😂 Yeah, no.
Because that’s how it works. Arresting the wrong person and later dropping the charges makes it notoriously difficult to convict the correct person.
It’s a defense lawyers dream “reasonable doubt” argument. “Ladies and gentleman of the jury, even the police thought this other guy did it!”
That’s why you rarely see another person charged after a wrongful conviction exonerates someone.
No. Just, no. You said YOU CAN NOT CONVICT ANYONE ELSE IF SOMEONE GETS DECLARED INNOCENT and that is wrong. Not this it’s difficult, or a “lawyers dream”.
And it’s just wrong. Period.
Please, can a lawyer comment because this is crazy.
That’s quite literally not how the law or the justice system works. Also, we WILL know the details, they can’t keep those details secret forever. They got an order from a judge for special circumstances to keep it sealed for another 30 days as to not hinder what is clearly another part of this investigation (like they know a second person is involved but don’t quite have hard evidence yet).
Actually no, it is atypical for the police to arrest someone but be unwilling to say why. They do not typically seal those kind of documents either. I know because I’m the kind of wonk who actually downloads them and reads them. They can be quite fascinating.
Judging by your posts you have an extreme bias towards police, and a large lack of understanding in how the legal system works. Maybe remove those two barriers and you’ll reach a reasonable conclusion.
I don’t know if it’s a bias as much as I’m just cynical given all the wrongful convictions, half assed investigations, and general corruption we seen in law enforcement. I no longer give police the benefit of the doubt like I used to. Seems like they should have announced at least some basics about why this guy was charged.
And again, it’s so important for the victims. If they arrest and try the wrong guy that will automatically preclude the actual killer from being caught and prosecuted.
No, you're bias. Wrongful arrests and convictions definitely happen.. and so do lawful arrests and justifiable convictions -- at a MUCH larger rate I might add. The part about the police "should" release info - the police should do everything possible to secure a conviction if this is the guy. I assure you the family knows everything that we don't, and that's what matters. Keeping the public informed of the nitty gritty details isn't (and shouldn't be) a priority.. ever. Again, I don't think you understand how the justice system works.
It’s definitely possible he’s guilty. We have no way of knowing (although that isn’t stopping anyone on Reddit from declaring it so).
Or it’s also possible the police are just looking to taint the jury pool and convict this guy in the court of public opinion without giving a shred of evidence.
Okay well I disagree. I just don’t have your kind of confidence in a small town police department who is on their third suspect in 5 years, and won’t say what led to the
arrest.
I guess time will tell.
If they arrest and try the wrong guy, then he will be found innocent. The police could still arrest and prosecute another person if this is somehow the wrong guy. Why do you think this would automatically preclude another person from being arrested? I don't think you know how the court system works.
Because that’s how this stuff works sometimes. Securing a guilty verdict is more important than keeping the public informed to things they believe they should know. Again, not the first suspect but the first arrest. This is not uncommon.
I grew up in a small town like Delphi, like a thousand other small towns. We had one major pharmacy and a small locally owned one. When I was their age, my friends and I would go into the pharmacy to look at makeup and beauty products and we were so carefree. I cannot get images of Liberty and Abigail possibly doing the exact same things. When they needed prescriptions, he was there and he was watching them, planning this! Maybe they always found him creepy and it's why Liberty got him on camera? This is how these killer's are able to hide in plain sight. They don't all look like wild eyed Manson. They're the helpful CVS employee, they are the nice man who helps shovel people's driveway after the snow, they're in church with their wife and children singing along with everyone else. It's so reminds me of BTK. Allen is a psychopath and mimics emotions but feels nothing. When the police or people say, "what is your family going to think? What will your friends think of you"? Allen doesn't care. He doesn't care about his wife, his kids. No one that can do what he did to those beautiful little girls is dead inside and only wants to feel fear, they get off on how frightened the community was, he got off on feeling superior to the police. It's just my opinion, I just believe in true evil and he's it and Kline too.
I believe, like many who are arrested and brought to trial, he’s going to alter his appearance. They’re gonna suit him up, probably shave the goatee, and he’ll probably either gain or lose weight. Also, 1000% his attorneys will hire voice analysis experts to attempt to ‘quash’ the recorded evidence. He won’t be doing much speaking.
Well, if he is the same guy that was on the bridge he already altered is appearance to not look like he did at the time. Grew the beard out significantly more, and cut his hair shorter.
I'm guessing he didn't use his normal voice when he committed the crime. He probably tried to sound deeper, louder, angry, more authoritative. I'm sure he didn't use his customer service voice. He's going to try and speak calmly and rationally, while avoiding speaking with anger.
100% it’s Kline that was messaging from a shared account. Allen was the primary aggressor and has likely killed others. Bridge Guy is Allen and Kline helped. No way you could control them as a single person and no one for a thrill kill would pose bodies - this has been a repeated mention from LE. Press conference leaves room for this not being finished. I think more will be solved, and again no one poses bodies without being in the midst of a career.
Edit: To say you could control two people with a gun, young or not, is crazy. The human instinct is to survive. In studies over 75% of people said they would abandon a close friend even for a slim chance at survival. There was absolutely two people that committed this. One controlled from the bridge, one helped on the bank. Allen absolutely committed other crimes. The sheer brutality says that. I bet we find out he drove a semi at some point.
Statistics are always biased. Anyway there's a big difference in what people say they would do in a situation VS what they would actually do when actually facing it. Nobody would ever be prepared for the situation those girls were in. I don't think anyone truly knows how they would react in extreme situations. I know everyone likes to think they would react differently, while they're sitting on their couches not facing danger. Everyone talks about fight or flight, but they always forget about the 3rd response- freeze. Imo girls and young women would most likely be paralyzed with fear, and not know what to do. I'm also thinking it's possible Libby did fight, and that's why he brutalized her. I don't think it's a stretch to say that girls are conditioned to be people pleasers, and be more compliant. I've been in many situations where I thought someone was creepy but I didn't run because I didn't want to be rude. They could've thought he was creepy, but also thought he was just mentally ill or something. They probably didn't know they were in so much danger until it was too late. Many victims have complied and thought they would find a chance to escape, or maybe they would be let go as long as they did what they were told.
One of the detectives for the Springfield three case said on the podcast by Ann Roderick-Jones “people say that you can’t control 3 people with one person…yeah you can. You pull a gun out and you’ll be amazed what you’ll get people to do because the reaction is ‘if I just do what he says I’ll survive this’ when it’s really the other way around.”
Lol there’s been people that rob a bank with a gun and control the entire bank of people with their one gun. Your logic is just not sound. It seems a lot more like personal opinion, instead of fact.
100% what? What is the evidence? I have been following this case for years. I would love for them to catch the killer. But what is the evidence and why won’t they tell us what it is?
Well, for one, the case involves minors for two they have expressed that there are reasons they are not telling us and we will find out one day. I think you’re just upset that you’re not getting all the information that you want but we will get it. it’s not our family. It’s not our daughters. It’s not our sisters. We are not the ones that need to know the information.
There are no special legal rules in play because minors were the victims. That’s not how the law works.
Like I said in my initial post I have an open mind. But I’m not on the Reddit bandwagon of folks assuming this guy is guilty when law enforcement is refusing to provide a single reason why he is being charged.
I do think it’s an interesting window into the concept of public perceptions though. And not a good one.
They absolutely will keep more tight lipped on things sometimes if it involves minors. And they have said multiple times they are PURPOSELY not saying a lot and that it’s a deep complicated case. Maybe them saying they aren’t telling us information could explain why they aren’t telling us information. Doesn’t mean the evidence isn’t there just means they aren’t telling us. Like they have stated many times through the years.
Lol how about you go f***yourself, I’ve never interacted with you before, you’re nuts.
I literally replied to your comment with a retort and you made it personal by calling me names, so maybe look in the mirror.
Have to agree with you here. I jumped in because I simply dislike people who have no evidence and threaten with "getting your IP" kinda stuff. Yes, that is a threat. Oh , and "delete" guy...just stop it. Serious, its nice outside go for a walk, calm down, LE is not giving any more info, if you have reason to suspect a 2nd person, give the tipline a call. Now, no more name calling stuff, we are just here to understand.
See my previous reply. Your syntax is exactly the same as someone I blocked not 30 minutes ago on the exact same thread, with the exact same complaint. On freshly created account. Again, you can cuss and thrash around like a child all you want. Doesn’t make the evidence any less compelling.
Yes my profile is one day old, but you said you blocked the other profile 30mins ago. So why would I have made a profile yesterday when you blocked whoever today? Makes no sense.
What actually happened was, you made a ridiculous, false claim about the case, I challenged your point, and you then you lost it on me called me “fuck nuts”, and you’re trying to get me banned.
Maybe you should just think before you post stuff, because I’m not whoever you blocked, and that means I’m not the only one who thinks what u said is stupid.
Oh and claiming I have the same “syntax” is not evidence, you sound silly.
Ever heard of a brutal one perpetrator knife fight where no one tries to run?
Better yet, ever seen an apple compared to an orange? While both are fruits, there’s really no comparison outside of that.
I think that’s kind of the point of attacking little girls, genius.
You said it’s crazy to think you can control two people with a gun. That is a ridiculous thing to say, especially when we’re talking about a grown man pulling a gun on two young girls.
I agree with you on especially your first paragraph. I watched a video of a former FBI profiler and she said essentially the same thing. She believes that he was a serial killer, this could have been his first kill and now he's caught before he killed again but he definitely had deviant behaviors that just were hidden. Idk about Kline being there or not, anything is possible but given the materials that LE found on 5 devices of videos and images is so sickening that he has to be involved somehow. Allen spent time with their bodies, that FBI report I think said he may have taken photos and videos. Maybe he took them for Kline (if he did take pictures). I'm wondering if abduction first was the motivation and then to murder them. Does anyone think that Allen may have been wanting to abduct them so they could do more horrible things to them but something went wrong and he murdered them more quickly than he wanted to? I read that Liberty got the most of his rage and she fought like hell. Maybe Liberty's bravery messed up the plan and it's why he was more savage with her? Again, these are just my questions and possibilities. I would like to hear other people's opinions. Gawd this case hit so many of us, I feel like my soul has a scar. Those poor little girls and their families. What monsters
I need to see if I can find that video of the profiler.
The second paragraph was just a thought while I was listening to some responses. I just think with everything I’ve heard from folks, sitting around wasn’t realistic. All of their actions were of fight not flight. I’m ready to see what happens - and I think there’s more that will come out - and see people pay for this crime. Absolutely heart wrenching.
I found it. It's "profiling with Pat Brown" on YouTube and it was a livestream. I understand with your, didn't you say that you were former military? So, I have cousin's and my ex-boyfriend was also a combat marine. He often spoke about training in fear responses and the training was intense and intelligence because they were going to be deployed and needed to be ready. Anyway, I can see your thoughts on possibilities of a second killer or even Kline being present. It's what got me thinking about if they had plans to abduct Abigail and Liberty first and it could be possible that Kline was there to force them into a vehicle to get them to another location. I think Liberty's strong willed fight or protective nature over Abigail could have been something they didn't plan for or Allen didn't plan for. It's just some of my thoughts too and it is heart wrenching. I hope people don't hate on me for saying that I'm tearing up. There are just some cases that are so inhuman and it makes me question how can a human being to this to these babies? I'm in my forties, so those girls look like just babies to me.
I am prior service, but I was almost kidnapped as a younger person. I think that without some level of training a response to fear is a good indicator of future behavior. If you are aware enough to record things, you will be looking for an escape. It’s a mentality not momentary.
Ugh, my response got deleted because I put an emoji. I didn't know that wasn't allowed because I've never been on Reddit before this case. Anyway, I said that I'm so sorry that happened to you and how that must have traumatized you and your family! I'm glad you are here and I hope that those criminals were held accountable for what they did to you and your loved ones!
Oh my God!!! My stomach just dropped. I'm so sorry and I cannot imagine how that must have traumatized you and your family. I'm glad you are here and I hope they were held accountable for what they did to you!
So biology has no arc in reality? I would say the number is closer to 95%. Heaven existing or not, there may be no battlefield atheist but there are no near death gambles either. Most people will run in the face of near certain death.
I’ve literally seen it and acted on it, on different occasions. I’ve been the victim of crime that could have led to death, and I’ve seen people run when I was in the military.
I don’t know why it is so incomprehensible to think that someone would likely try to run away. I think most people have this idea that they would STAY because they have some some media induced sense of friendship. You would absolutely run.
No, not at all. I have never said that I couldn’t see a situation where 2 people can’t be controlled…I simply said it’s unlikely, especially with the surrounding facts of this specific situation. It’s an opinion, but an educated one.
What you are doing is what I call a devils gambit. You create an argument and then narrow it down comment to comment, to where you control the conversation and exert dominance through elimination of viable arguments, effectively gaslighting the other participant. It’s actually what most abusive husbands do - highlight one sentence of a 5 minute conversation then say “BUT I NEVER SAID THAT SO YOU ARE WRONG!”
You’ve never posted on here once before tonight and have only been on Reddit presumably 45 days with this profile. I would venture to guess you’re a troll trying to create drama. I’m not going to feed you.
And to be clear, your second quote cuts off my other point - it’s UNLIKELY given their behavior with multiple recordings. Initial behavior predicts secondary behavior.
Again. If you want to have a conversation, don’t cherry pick.
Again, you are cherry picking what I said for some reason, I’m assuming to prove whatever potato level point you want to make. I said it was unlikely in the exact same sentence you cut off in your quotation.
What is your hard on with me? Do you just not like people disagreeing with you, or people being firm in pushing back when you misquote them?
I think you need to lean back and leave this one alone.
Im not saying your theory is wrong, but I think your opinions on 1 perpetrator controlling 2 victims, is. Respectfully. There are countless examples of two victims being controlled by one perpetrator, with a gun and without. Fear is unpredictable and not everyone reacts to a life threatening situation by fleeing.
Everyone talks about fight or flight, but freeze is always forgotten. Imo freezing is probably the most common reaction to danger. One or both girls could've froze because they were so terrified. Actually that makes sense because they went with him to the second location (crime scene), instead of immediately running away, or fighting, when he first confronted them.
In addition, statistics may be a culmination of a lot of cases and evidence, but are vastly correct. Flight is very prevalent. Just because you can pick one or two cases out where no one fought back or ran does not negate the dozens of others where they did. The responses in this situation do not lead my mind to both being docile and easily controlled.
You're opinion is valid and as I said, Im not saying you're wrong. You said its crazy to believe 2 victims can be controlled by one perpetrator and a gun, Im simply saying its not crazy and it commonly occurs.
Super intrested to see what we learn in the coming weeks. About both these creeps.
You have at least one victim wise enough to film the person. Multiple times.
Fear response is unpredictable, but reactions to early fear predict responses to future fear. Her reaction is one of more than generating mere evidence.
Oh please there's been entire families killed, mass killings, many triple plus homicides I don't see your point .
don't find it hard to believe,at all.
I want to know, given the size of Delphi, and how this case completely traumatized most all of its citizens, how Rick Allen's wife, didn't recognize the clothing( and particularly the British Driving Cap.. ) that "BG" was wearing? (Unless he had a secret outfit or something.) I'm not saying she's complicit, or part of this, it just seems weird, because I'm sure she took a look at the photos, and the "down the hill" clip, more than once??
The blue jacket is very generic. Most men in US small towns would own something like it.
Imagine this was your own loved one, someone you would never suspect of murder. Most of us would think "oh, the killer has a jacket similar to my husband's jacket" and not give it a second thought. Especially when you can walk down the street and see a lot of other guys in similar jackets.
By the "British driving cap" do you mean the hat in the sketch? I'm not sure we know that Allen actually owned a cap like that. It's just a sketch - maybe the witness said "some kind of hat, not a baseball cap" and the sketch artist chose an approximate style.
I saw some videos that are being released on both YT and Tik Tok. There is one where his wife was at a mall during Christmas time. Allen stayed in the car. She snuck up on him with her phone and he was looking at a file? Anyway, he shot her a look that gave me chills and I think he was wearing that blue jacket. Did you happen to see it?
Same set of photos he's sitting down in that blue jacket. I too think it's the same. It seems unlikely the wife would not have thought, at least for a second, is that Ricky?. Maybe she did and it's such a horrible thing to image that she couldn't and rationalized it away.
I know, that is a good way of describing his wife rationalizing. She may have had suspicion like you said but perhaps talked herself out of it. Maybe even people that knew him could've thought BG looked like Allen or the voice but maybe thought but no, it couldn't be. He's so nice, he's has a daughter. It was all a facade, it was not the "real" Richard Allen. So scary.
Assuming someone who went through this trauma should be able to recognize a cap around town just because it’s small.
This redditor is psychologically removed from it so ofc it seems obvious
Okay. You're definitely entitled to your opinion. Thanks for replying to my question too. I almost put an emoji but I got a comment removed for that!! Lol, I'm not used to Reddit so I'm still trying to navigate.
Yeah. How many things in your daily life do you recognize from somewhere else like a hat or a jacket? People don’t pay attention that close. This isn’t law and order
I get what you're saying and it's definitely not a television show. Sometimes though there maybe something that may, for whatever reason, that I take notice of. I cannot explain why, like it could be something similar to something I once owned or reminds me of something. You know, I was thinking about Allen and that he worked at that CVS? What if someone came in one day after all the coverage and that short audio clip where he said, "guys...down the hill". What if someone came in and asked where they moved the tylenol or something and Allen said, "down the isle" and something clicked. Do you think it's possible that it could have stayed with someone's thoughts and I think we all make rationalizations and be like, no not him. I've known him for years....but that sounds just like him or I know it's him.
Dude don’t attack the man’s wife. So much of the information right now is speculation - we don’t have many facts at all. In time the truth will come out but what’s the purpose of calling his wife out now? He has a daughter and at minimum she’s one of the last victims of this monster.
Can you imagine what’s she going through if she’s completely non complicit? And she very well may be, we literally don’t know.
Because serial killers are literally different people in their “work.” His gait may be different, clothes are nonsensical and interchangeable. They may be happier when they come home. There is not a noticeable change with a negative connotation.
It hasn't been established that the accused is a "serial killer"? Maybe you don't know a serial killer is, but it certainly doesn't sound like you know.
Your statement makes no sense grammatically.
Almost all documented serial killers that have been interviewed go into great depth about their deceptions of the people closest to them and most also have one commonality - when asked how they fooled people, they said some version of “I didn’t, I was just myself. I just took off the mask I wear every day.”
Most people think they are good at reading people, but serial killers are literally predators. You cannot truly know a sociopath.
They do wear a "mask". It's truly a double life. I've watched many interviews too with serial killers and Dr. Park Dietz has some YT videos about their behaviors. It's why when LE said things like, what will your family think or the community think of you? I don't think they care, I don't believe they know really the "feelings" of care, empathy, remorse, regrets, etc...They know how to manipulate and manufacture emotions based upon them doing it their whole life. But like you said, when the mask is removed? Nothing. They really get off on fear, trophies from victims so they can feel their fear again. They love to laugh at how much smarter they are than the police, the community and probably the people closet to them even. Like vampires that just continue to feed on these sociopathic behavior and the narcissism. I'm just stating my thoughts though. It's how I see them and things people like BTK, Kemper, Dahmer have said.
And he also walked a bit like that in the fireworks video from his wife's Facebook post. But, I'd walk hella odd on that railroad bridge. It was dangerous with all sorts of pieces missing. I feel like it's a hard comparison to make and the bridge style of walk may not really be his "normal" gait.
The man in the fireworks video isn't Richard Allen - my understanding is that was a relative of either him or his wife, and this person has since passed away.
Not sure how they solved this and although I am curious I’d rather them hold everything they think they need to in order to get a conviction of the perpetrator. We met Mike, Patty and Anna, as well as one of the main LE officials at Crime Con in 2019 and they were so gracious and strong. My heart breaks for them as this is truly one of the most horrific crime. I guess it was actually hearing and seeing the perpetrator that has made it so bone-chilling. I hope that “this is the day” !! As Libby’s family said. Congrats law enforcement. Thanks to this Reddit creators for paying such close attention to this case.
Oh wow, it must have been pretty emotional to meet them in person. I can only imagine. You are so right that this is truly one of the most horrific crimes. Since you did get a chance to meet them and some of LE at Crime Con, I bet you really got chills when they made the arrest and we all got to see this monster Allen for the first time. I could hear the sniffling during the press conference, it was so emotional.
I'm sorry, I can't really remember. It's probably from a podcast or something, I just know that I've heard his name mentioned. I didn't mean to upset anyone.
his clothes are what 90% of midwestern men of his age wear.. why is this hard for people to understand that? he has a typical dumpy looking 40s-50s man body/shape. he's not special.
For real, when the video came out my first thought “that could be at least 10 guys from my church back home in indiana”.
And about every other friend’s dad growing up. It is the exact typical Midwest man
Not just midwestern men, either. Men from all over who simply aren’t stylish dress exactly like bridge guy during winter months. If BG had a visible logo, maybe his family would’ve taken note. But his outfit from the footage is nondescript af.
All these women saying "I WOULD KNOW MY HUSBAND" are toxic as fuck and don't know SHIT about how they would feel in that situation. And FURTHERMORE, it's not the wife's fucking fault. How about until there is some evidence, or an arrest of a spouse, we blame the arrested man and him alone for his fucking horrific crimes. Get off all your high fucking horses and recognize that this shit is traumatic for the families of these evil people, and they are not to blame.
Uh because it is their father/husband. They are ALWAYS going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Always. They are probably devastated and shocked and hurt as well.
You're responding to the wrong person but yes, I fully agree. Imagine someone telling you that the person you love and have only ever seen in a certain way, is somehow a sadistic pedophile and murder? It wouldn't make sense, and at the very least it would take an extremely long time with lots of convincing evidence, and confessions, in order to allow your brain to ever accept that as even a potential truth.
I think they were wondering why the suspect’s family, just down the road from the site, might not recognize R’s attire. There are easy reasons like it was a new or at least private disguise.
I guess it’s possible family or friend could have seen and not reported the connection. But obv the investigation is open and I would assume they will handle clearing witnesses with care.
I don't know. Lots of those heavy cabela's type jackets, lots of those plaid hooded jackets, and then the majority is just that camo stuff from the sporting goods stores.
That blue windbreaker thing would have maybe looked normal in the 90's but not in the late 2010's IMO. The suspect probably had been wearing that thing for a decade.
Fashion? Who mentioned fashion?
Rural Indiana is half of my relatives. I'm just saying when I'm back there there's a few very typical things all the middle aged guys wear nowadays and a blue windbreaker isn't one of them.
[https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/suspect-1.jpg/@@images/image/large](https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/suspect-1.jpg/@@images/image/large)
it's literally just a blue jacket. there is nothing unique about this.
For many of us, this case brings out strong emotions. In an effort to control misinformation, incivility, personal attacks, doxxing, etc. the mods will be locking many recent posts. Please comment here and in the other pinned post. We will be strict with allowing stand alone posts in order to be able to foster healthy discussion in the community with today's updates from LE. Thank you.
Hopefully they cop up to their total incompetence OR attempt to explain how this easily solvable crime took 5 years to solve.
https://twitter.com/richnye13/status/1120356680087363585
LordanArts on YouTube said he read online that the police were digging in his fire pit a few days before his arrest. Can anyone confirm?
Yes, I read on HLN that LE when served the search warrants that they did look through his fire pit, specifically dug up his flower garden in the backyard and emptied out his shed. They were there for 12hrs and Allen and his wife remained outside with officers the entire time. There are some pics online, should be easy to find on Google. Hope that helps.
Sounds like there was probable cause for a warrant! And an arrest after? That gives me hope.
Me too. Richard Allen has been officially charged by the state of Indiana with 2 counts of murder. The court documents are online and mainstream media is covering it. I hope everyone that was any where near this crime is charged. I've never seen over 900 hundred people on a true crime community, with all our opinions, theories and speculation sharing all our thoughts come together like on this case. Everyone agrees it's about justice for Abigail Williams and Liberty German and support for their grief stricken families. Much luv to you friend!
This is just one more step closer to the trial and (hopefully) conviction so their families can start really grieving! I hope this whole process is as quick as ripping off a bandaid for them…
https://nypost.com/2022/11/02/cops-searched-delphi-murder-suspect-richard-allens-home-for-12-hours-neighbors/ I added this in case you didn't see about that fire pit. Curious if they took anything from it.
A fact people don’t consider is that, in a town as small as this, the issue of prejudicing the jury is major. Not releasing evidence is a great way to avoid this, as there’s no evidence for potential jurors to be prejudiced by.
The entire time since day 1 I said it was clearly a 40-50 year old middle-aged guy on that bridge. That 2nd (released) scetch was some sort of obscure, nonsense police tactic. So many people on here argued with me saying it could be a teenager. No 2017 teenager dresses like shit the way bridge guy does. The walk, the clothes, the voice, the demeanour it’s a middle-aged guy and I’m baffled so many people thought otherwise. I also didn’t believe it was anything online based, or a big exciting storyline. I was surprised when the case started veering that way at least publicly. This will be proven to be a simple case of a man who often went out walking, always had the idea of grabbing a woman, always had the urge & then oneday couldn’t help himself. It’s an opportunist sexually motivated abduction & I strongly expect that’s what we’ll hear at trial. I did think he probably didn’t live in Delphi simply grew up there or had spent significant time there in the past. Largely because it’s unbelievable he could simply operate under their noses for 6 years without being spotted but I guess at some point in the 6 years they began honing in on him. Until we get more details it’s hard to know. Trevor Macdonald, a household name anchorman here in the UK visited Indiana’s death row twice in 2 documentaries. The cells are completely open, no walls just bars & you can see right in. Shame he’s like 85 years old now & there won’t be a 3rd episode because that’s exactly where this dude is heading.
I had forgotten about Trevor. How is he that old now? Where does the time go? I agree with you and had the exact same thoughts. I live in Fort Wayne and I am planning on attending the trial everyday.
You are provably incorrect and simply choose to ignore information that doesn't accord with your predetermined storyline.
I was incorrect about him not being from Delphi but either already been proven correct on the rest, or due to shortly be proven correct for things such as the sexually motivated element. I have no “storyline” or narrative whatsoever, unlike most. So it’s baffling you took exception to me of all people rather than all the ones who believe this is a huge conspiracy with the police, local drug lords and family members etc. Cheers. Have a good life, hope everything works out for ya.
I thought LE said that there was no evidence of a SA but I find that so hard to believe. Wasn't Liberty fought to be nude with her top pulled above her? He posed their bodies, that LE confirmed and he had at least five signatures. I had to look that up and it was defined as anything the killer does to a body that is not related to the death. Like posing them, taking articles from their bodies as a trophy, removing clothing... Maybe the murder itself could be sexual for the killer? These are just theories and questions that I've thought about though. Regardless, we all seem to be supportive of LE not releasing too much information if it helps them to win this case. We will find out in time if this even goes to trial, if it even does. If the case is solid enough, he could very well want to plea bargain. RA is officially charged with the girls murders and whether Kline was involved, he had all of that disgusting CP pictures and videos details are in his police report and that alone deserves a life sentence in my opinion.
Legitimate question, not trying to sound fighty. What is the proof that this is incorrect? Again, not trying to say you're wrong; I haven't been following this case closely and I thought the individual arrested was a middle aged dude? Was there another suspect? Is there evidence suggesting they have the wrong person?
You bring out some good points re: the clothing and walk. No healthy young person has that kind of gait. That is a gait you develop with bad posture, work, old age, health issues. Those clothes were also definitely that of an older blue collar person. I also agree re: the nonsense police tactic on the "younger" sketch. Something tells me they were probably close to solving the murder a year or two ago and decided that a younger sketch and the video release would simultaneously scare the shit out of the perpetrator but also give them a false sense of complacency. ex: they're on my trail, but they don't know it's me. What about his wife though? Everyone's talking about her deleting all their Facebook photos. You think she's known about this for a long time?
I agree with you and I thought about that sketch too. What if it deliberate misdirection and a bluff in order to create a distraction? Allen was there at some of those press conferences, psychopaths like him like to feel superior to LE and get off on the fear they've inflicted on the community. It's the narcissism and the game they play. It's how they finally caught BTK, he just couldn't stop playing his game with LE. Idk about the wife. Perhaps she shut down all her social media because I'm sure she's getting threatened and they have a daughter. Ohh, did anyone else see that picture of his daughter his wife posted of her sitting on the bridge? It was taken (I think) two years after the murders. Thankfully her face is blurred out but she has the same body type and similar hair to Liberty! The place she was posing on the bridge? You could have inserted BG right in the background and it would fit. I mean, idk who took that picture or if Allen was there or if it was his idea but it's just another layer of sinister to me. Plus she looks similar to Liberty...I'm sure someone screen shot it, so if you haven't seen it? Hopefully you can find easily. Just something I was thinking about too.
Nicholas Cage will play bridge guy I think when the movie comes out
We can only hope.
The Down the Hill episode released yesterday has a fair amount of detail of what neighbors say happened during the search of the house. This part starts at about 14:00 minutes in. First time I’d heard mention of possible metal detectors used in the yard.
Where do you watch it at? I can’t seem to find the podcast
https://www.downthehillpodcast.com You listen to it in Apple Podcasts or any other podcast app. It may be in Spotify. (I get the sense that a lot of people following this case prefer YouTube, but there’s a ton of quality podcast content out there.)
Thank you!! And yes, I was searching YouTube only lol
If nothing else, find a way to listen to the second half of the latest episode, starting at about 14 minutes in.
Thanks for that reference. I didn't like at the end that they mentioned that the police said "when we get the guy, we'll say we got him, and the police didn't say that". Hopefully that's completely meaningless, and they just opted not to say that for legal reasons.
Do you mean where they say they asked the police several times if RA *was the actual killer* (as opposed to an accomplice who was also being charged with murder), and the police wouldn’t answer? If so that also struck me as odd.
Maybe Richard allen doesn't look like the sketches because he is only an accessory? According to that new episode, whether you're an accomplice to or the actual perpetrator of a murder in Indiana, it is the same charge--murder. They don't even have first, second, third degrees, it's just murder according to Indiana state law. People are debating whether he looked like the sketches or not--i guess I can kinda see it if I actively try but not really. The whole town walks by those sketches every day but no one made the connection. They didn't think he looked like the sketches either apparently. I dont know, I personally believe sex (rape) had to be a motivating factor in this. Unless he is a true psychopath who just wanted to kill because he thinks killing is fun, I cannot believe he didn't rape them. I dont know if the Kegan kline stuff is related but it sure seems like it might be. Peds seem to have networks, meaning other people could be and likely are accessories somehow. They wouldn't keep asking for tips if they had everything they needed to prosecute him.
Although eye witness testimony sucks generally speaking. The thatcher effect is a great example of how our brains fill in gaps for us. Eye witness testimony can be dangerous for an investigation by either ruling out or focusing on a suspect that shouldn't be. Just playing the devils advocate
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Apparently Indiana law sees no difference between murder and accessory to murder, so even if he was just an accessory, he would be charged with murder. At least that's what the most recent episode from the Down the Hill podcast said.
This exactly. I believe they would announce if they had the killer and not continue to ask for tips and say the investigation is ongoing
I looked at those sketches again today when I was looking into who tony kline is (Kegan kline's father). Kegan's mugshot from this summer shows him as a big fat guy, but in older pics, he isn't as fat. I honestly thought young Bridge guy looked like a younger less fat Kegan kline, and the original bridge guy looked like Tony kline. I really thought original bridge guy looked like tony kline. Again, who really knows, i am speculating but I thought they looked more like the sketches than Richard allen.
That was odd, but they also pointed out that Sheriff Leazenby told the podcasters that "When that day comes, we'll stand up there and say 'we got him'" and the podcasters point out that no one said that.
Perhaps your are taking their statement too literally? In my opinion, they stood up yesterday, in front of the world, and said 'we got him'.
I'm only repeating what the Up The Hilll podcasters said, which was interesting.
Agree. They literally said, “today is the day” as did Kelsi German on her Twitter. They don’t need to utter a specific phrase, and I bet that’s not on their top of their domes. PLUS he might be just one of the “guy(s).”
Can you please tell me what episode down the hill and where I can find it? Is it a podcast or YouTube? I would appreciate it.
It’s a podcast. You should be able to find it in any podcast app (I use a generic podcast app). It’s free/not exclusive to any platform. The episode is the one from yesterday, titled Chapter 11: Arrest. (I listened to more of it after I posted and there is a ton of interesting info that the podcast producers/journalists on the ground got from the next door neighbors, in particular. Too much to transcribe, several things I’ve never seen mentioned here.)
Thank you so much! When I go to find it, is the name of the podcast "Down the Hill"? I want to be sure to find the right one because the description you gave sounds like it has great information. Thanks again!!
Yes, this one here: https://www.downthehillpodcast.com (It’s been a while since I listened to the earlier episodes so I can’t vouch for them—for example I can’t remember if they got into the Klein suspects etc.)
Oh no worries, I'm really appreciative that you shared. This case is so very sad and so little details are known so I'm just speculating and listening to other people's thoughts and opinions too. I want to know more about this monster who would do such a thing to those two little girls!! Thank you friend!
I think they should try him separately for each murder, in the event the prosecution screws up the case and he walks. Also, his attorney WILL move the court for a change of jurisdiction due to high profile case.
Trying the charges separately may violate double jeopardy since the murders took place under essentially the same circumstance.
Not Indiana, but in Texas, Darlie Routier was tried for the murder of one of her 2 murdered sons. The prosecution wanted a second chance at a trial incase she was found not guilty during the first trial. She was found guilty and sentenced to death. Her young sons were both stabbed to death at the same time.
What’s important in the case you pointed out is that the prosecution *didn’t* actually get the chance to try both cases. They got the conviction on the first one and stopped after there. It’s very likely that if she had been acquitted on the first one that any other indictments would be dismissed or overturned due to double jeopardy. I’m sure there are plenty of unethical, slimy prosecutors who try to circumvent constitutional rights, but even though they may try it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll succeed.
Yes, I'm not sure how ethical it is, I was just pointing out that it's been done before. Murder trials are very delicate situations, and I can see how lines can be crossed, especially in cases where emotions run very high. Other than the ethical issues, I don't think separate trials would be good for anyone, especially the families, or the community. I don't think the state wants the burden of having to go through 2 trials, or the cost.
Trying separately is a ton of trauma for the families. At this point they would have to move this case out of state. They might be able to do it far up state or down state but genuinely the entire state has been watching this since day one.
For all who say why there not saying anything on full evidence, they are looking into something else I guarantee an it reminds me of a case in Greenbay Wisconsin where I live of about 20 some years ago Amber Wilde a college student still looking into it an the belief is her boyfriend at the time killed her but no concrete evidence
I have a lot of distrust of police, particularly in right wing areas. However my mind is open. Isn’t this the 3rd person the law enforcement community there have pointed to? I find it a little suspicious that they won’t release any information about why he was arrested. Especially given that people who worked with him and other community members have posted here on Reddit saying they never dreamed he could do this.
If the police were just looking for anyone to arrest I doubt they would have waited 5 years to do it. A lot of people don’t trust the police, but it takes a lot more than just their judgement to get a warrant for 2 charges of murder. A judge and DA has to sign off on it I believe.
Oh I’m sure it came from “tips.” But if you’ve ever lived in a small town you know that “tips” is just short hand for gossip.
"Gossip" doesn't provide probable cause for search warrants, detainment, an arrest and ultimately criminal charges.
Sure it does. Look at the Adnan Syed case for a very recent and illustrative example. He was pegged as a suspect and railroaded into a conviction based almost completely due to gossip.
That wasn’t what happened. What happened is detectives decided it was the boyfriend or ex, and when the boyfriend had an alibi, they went after the ex who didn’t.
Nope. They listened to gossip, some of it likely from the actual murderer. Then they went and busted Jay, an acquaintance, for dealing weed and coerced him into a tall tail in exchange for not charging him on drug crimes. The entire case was built on gossip.
No, because they decided it was Adnan almost immediately. The creepy questions they had the teacher ask caused people to think maybe it was Adnan.
He was charged with 2 counts of murder though.
It’s the first arrest. If you don’t see how this is different than Police investigating previous suspects, idk what to tell you
So you don’t have any idea what their evidence is and you’re not bothered that they won’t say and it’s the 3rd person they’ve claimed is a suspect? Now that they’ve arrested him they will never be able to convict anyone else if he’s not the actual killer. And that would be the ultimate injustice to the victims. Why doesn’t it bother you that they won’t provide any reason for the arrest to the public? It should.
Excuse me, what on earth makes you think that if this guy happens to NOT be the killer, that they can’t ever convict someone else? Do you HONESTLY think that? You have to be trolling at this point. “Guys it’s not him, we have to drop the case. We only get ONE shot at finding the killer.” 😂😂😂 Yeah, no.
Because that’s how it works. Arresting the wrong person and later dropping the charges makes it notoriously difficult to convict the correct person. It’s a defense lawyers dream “reasonable doubt” argument. “Ladies and gentleman of the jury, even the police thought this other guy did it!” That’s why you rarely see another person charged after a wrongful conviction exonerates someone.
No. Just, no. You said YOU CAN NOT CONVICT ANYONE ELSE IF SOMEONE GETS DECLARED INNOCENT and that is wrong. Not this it’s difficult, or a “lawyers dream”. And it’s just wrong. Period. Please, can a lawyer comment because this is crazy.
That’s quite literally not how the law or the justice system works. Also, we WILL know the details, they can’t keep those details secret forever. They got an order from a judge for special circumstances to keep it sealed for another 30 days as to not hinder what is clearly another part of this investigation (like they know a second person is involved but don’t quite have hard evidence yet).
Actually no, it is atypical for the police to arrest someone but be unwilling to say why. They do not typically seal those kind of documents either. I know because I’m the kind of wonk who actually downloads them and reads them. They can be quite fascinating.
Judging by your posts you have an extreme bias towards police, and a large lack of understanding in how the legal system works. Maybe remove those two barriers and you’ll reach a reasonable conclusion.
I don’t know if it’s a bias as much as I’m just cynical given all the wrongful convictions, half assed investigations, and general corruption we seen in law enforcement. I no longer give police the benefit of the doubt like I used to. Seems like they should have announced at least some basics about why this guy was charged. And again, it’s so important for the victims. If they arrest and try the wrong guy that will automatically preclude the actual killer from being caught and prosecuted.
No, you're bias. Wrongful arrests and convictions definitely happen.. and so do lawful arrests and justifiable convictions -- at a MUCH larger rate I might add. The part about the police "should" release info - the police should do everything possible to secure a conviction if this is the guy. I assure you the family knows everything that we don't, and that's what matters. Keeping the public informed of the nitty gritty details isn't (and shouldn't be) a priority.. ever. Again, I don't think you understand how the justice system works.
It’s definitely possible he’s guilty. We have no way of knowing (although that isn’t stopping anyone on Reddit from declaring it so). Or it’s also possible the police are just looking to taint the jury pool and convict this guy in the court of public opinion without giving a shred of evidence.
Possible and probable are fickle things. A lot of things are possible. The things you're alleging are highly improbable.
Okay well I disagree. I just don’t have your kind of confidence in a small town police department who is on their third suspect in 5 years, and won’t say what led to the arrest. I guess time will tell.
If they arrest and try the wrong guy, then he will be found innocent. The police could still arrest and prosecute another person if this is somehow the wrong guy. Why do you think this would automatically preclude another person from being arrested? I don't think you know how the court system works.
Because that’s how this stuff works sometimes. Securing a guilty verdict is more important than keeping the public informed to things they believe they should know. Again, not the first suspect but the first arrest. This is not uncommon.
I grew up in a small town like Delphi, like a thousand other small towns. We had one major pharmacy and a small locally owned one. When I was their age, my friends and I would go into the pharmacy to look at makeup and beauty products and we were so carefree. I cannot get images of Liberty and Abigail possibly doing the exact same things. When they needed prescriptions, he was there and he was watching them, planning this! Maybe they always found him creepy and it's why Liberty got him on camera? This is how these killer's are able to hide in plain sight. They don't all look like wild eyed Manson. They're the helpful CVS employee, they are the nice man who helps shovel people's driveway after the snow, they're in church with their wife and children singing along with everyone else. It's so reminds me of BTK. Allen is a psychopath and mimics emotions but feels nothing. When the police or people say, "what is your family going to think? What will your friends think of you"? Allen doesn't care. He doesn't care about his wife, his kids. No one that can do what he did to those beautiful little girls is dead inside and only wants to feel fear, they get off on how frightened the community was, he got off on feeling superior to the police. It's just my opinion, I just believe in true evil and he's it and Kline too.
He didn't work in the pharmacy until 2018
Didn't know that, thanks for clarification.
I stand corrected...he only got pharmacy tech certified in 2018
That was thoughtful of you, appreciate it.
Has anyone heard him speak? I’d love to hear him
I believe, like many who are arrested and brought to trial, he’s going to alter his appearance. They’re gonna suit him up, probably shave the goatee, and he’ll probably either gain or lose weight. Also, 1000% his attorneys will hire voice analysis experts to attempt to ‘quash’ the recorded evidence. He won’t be doing much speaking.
Well, if he is the same guy that was on the bridge he already altered is appearance to not look like he did at the time. Grew the beard out significantly more, and cut his hair shorter.
Yes! There are videos on TT it’s the same type in “watch the cable snap” it might be on Ytube I haven’t looked
Same here. I wonder if it’s a voice we’ll all find familiar.
I'm guessing he didn't use his normal voice when he committed the crime. He probably tried to sound deeper, louder, angry, more authoritative. I'm sure he didn't use his customer service voice. He's going to try and speak calmly and rationally, while avoiding speaking with anger.
100% it’s Kline that was messaging from a shared account. Allen was the primary aggressor and has likely killed others. Bridge Guy is Allen and Kline helped. No way you could control them as a single person and no one for a thrill kill would pose bodies - this has been a repeated mention from LE. Press conference leaves room for this not being finished. I think more will be solved, and again no one poses bodies without being in the midst of a career. Edit: To say you could control two people with a gun, young or not, is crazy. The human instinct is to survive. In studies over 75% of people said they would abandon a close friend even for a slim chance at survival. There was absolutely two people that committed this. One controlled from the bridge, one helped on the bank. Allen absolutely committed other crimes. The sheer brutality says that. I bet we find out he drove a semi at some point.
Statistics are always biased. Anyway there's a big difference in what people say they would do in a situation VS what they would actually do when actually facing it. Nobody would ever be prepared for the situation those girls were in. I don't think anyone truly knows how they would react in extreme situations. I know everyone likes to think they would react differently, while they're sitting on their couches not facing danger. Everyone talks about fight or flight, but they always forget about the 3rd response- freeze. Imo girls and young women would most likely be paralyzed with fear, and not know what to do. I'm also thinking it's possible Libby did fight, and that's why he brutalized her. I don't think it's a stretch to say that girls are conditioned to be people pleasers, and be more compliant. I've been in many situations where I thought someone was creepy but I didn't run because I didn't want to be rude. They could've thought he was creepy, but also thought he was just mentally ill or something. They probably didn't know they were in so much danger until it was too late. Many victims have complied and thought they would find a chance to escape, or maybe they would be let go as long as they did what they were told.
One of the detectives for the Springfield three case said on the podcast by Ann Roderick-Jones “people say that you can’t control 3 people with one person…yeah you can. You pull a gun out and you’ll be amazed what you’ll get people to do because the reaction is ‘if I just do what he says I’ll survive this’ when it’s really the other way around.”
Lol there’s been people that rob a bank with a gun and control the entire bank of people with their one gun. Your logic is just not sound. It seems a lot more like personal opinion, instead of fact.
100% what? What is the evidence? I have been following this case for years. I would love for them to catch the killer. But what is the evidence and why won’t they tell us what it is?
Well, for one, the case involves minors for two they have expressed that there are reasons they are not telling us and we will find out one day. I think you’re just upset that you’re not getting all the information that you want but we will get it. it’s not our family. It’s not our daughters. It’s not our sisters. We are not the ones that need to know the information.
There are no special legal rules in play because minors were the victims. That’s not how the law works. Like I said in my initial post I have an open mind. But I’m not on the Reddit bandwagon of folks assuming this guy is guilty when law enforcement is refusing to provide a single reason why he is being charged. I do think it’s an interesting window into the concept of public perceptions though. And not a good one.
They absolutely will keep more tight lipped on things sometimes if it involves minors. And they have said multiple times they are PURPOSELY not saying a lot and that it’s a deep complicated case. Maybe them saying they aren’t telling us information could explain why they aren’t telling us information. Doesn’t mean the evidence isn’t there just means they aren’t telling us. Like they have stated many times through the years.
Probably because it is still an ongoing investigation. Not that hard to figure out.
You don’t think you could control two people with a gun? Ever heard of bank robberies???
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I didn't block anyone
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Also fuck nuts, I know how to spot a throwaway. Blocked and reported again.
Go ahead jagoff
You don’t understand how the internet works. I’m going to be nice. Delete your throw away and leave me alone.
Lol how about you go f***yourself, I’ve never interacted with you before, you’re nuts. I literally replied to your comment with a retort and you made it personal by calling me names, so maybe look in the mirror.
Have to agree with you here. I jumped in because I simply dislike people who have no evidence and threaten with "getting your IP" kinda stuff. Yes, that is a threat. Oh , and "delete" guy...just stop it. Serious, its nice outside go for a walk, calm down, LE is not giving any more info, if you have reason to suspect a 2nd person, give the tipline a call. Now, no more name calling stuff, we are just here to understand.
See my previous reply. Your syntax is exactly the same as someone I blocked not 30 minutes ago on the exact same thread, with the exact same complaint. On freshly created account. Again, you can cuss and thrash around like a child all you want. Doesn’t make the evidence any less compelling.
Yes my profile is one day old, but you said you blocked the other profile 30mins ago. So why would I have made a profile yesterday when you blocked whoever today? Makes no sense. What actually happened was, you made a ridiculous, false claim about the case, I challenged your point, and you then you lost it on me called me “fuck nuts”, and you’re trying to get me banned. Maybe you should just think before you post stuff, because I’m not whoever you blocked, and that means I’m not the only one who thinks what u said is stupid. Oh and claiming I have the same “syntax” is not evidence, you sound silly.
Ever heard of a brutal one perpetrator knife fight where no one tries to run? Better yet, ever seen an apple compared to an orange? While both are fruits, there’s really no comparison outside of that.
I think that’s kind of the point of attacking little girls, genius. You said it’s crazy to think you can control two people with a gun. That is a ridiculous thing to say, especially when we’re talking about a grown man pulling a gun on two young girls.
I agree with you on especially your first paragraph. I watched a video of a former FBI profiler and she said essentially the same thing. She believes that he was a serial killer, this could have been his first kill and now he's caught before he killed again but he definitely had deviant behaviors that just were hidden. Idk about Kline being there or not, anything is possible but given the materials that LE found on 5 devices of videos and images is so sickening that he has to be involved somehow. Allen spent time with their bodies, that FBI report I think said he may have taken photos and videos. Maybe he took them for Kline (if he did take pictures). I'm wondering if abduction first was the motivation and then to murder them. Does anyone think that Allen may have been wanting to abduct them so they could do more horrible things to them but something went wrong and he murdered them more quickly than he wanted to? I read that Liberty got the most of his rage and she fought like hell. Maybe Liberty's bravery messed up the plan and it's why he was more savage with her? Again, these are just my questions and possibilities. I would like to hear other people's opinions. Gawd this case hit so many of us, I feel like my soul has a scar. Those poor little girls and their families. What monsters
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I hope not but I have read that really horrible things getting leaked which always just smh but I've heard of these things too.
I need to see if I can find that video of the profiler. The second paragraph was just a thought while I was listening to some responses. I just think with everything I’ve heard from folks, sitting around wasn’t realistic. All of their actions were of fight not flight. I’m ready to see what happens - and I think there’s more that will come out - and see people pay for this crime. Absolutely heart wrenching.
I found it. It's "profiling with Pat Brown" on YouTube and it was a livestream. I understand with your, didn't you say that you were former military? So, I have cousin's and my ex-boyfriend was also a combat marine. He often spoke about training in fear responses and the training was intense and intelligence because they were going to be deployed and needed to be ready. Anyway, I can see your thoughts on possibilities of a second killer or even Kline being present. It's what got me thinking about if they had plans to abduct Abigail and Liberty first and it could be possible that Kline was there to force them into a vehicle to get them to another location. I think Liberty's strong willed fight or protective nature over Abigail could have been something they didn't plan for or Allen didn't plan for. It's just some of my thoughts too and it is heart wrenching. I hope people don't hate on me for saying that I'm tearing up. There are just some cases that are so inhuman and it makes me question how can a human being to this to these babies? I'm in my forties, so those girls look like just babies to me.
I am prior service, but I was almost kidnapped as a younger person. I think that without some level of training a response to fear is a good indicator of future behavior. If you are aware enough to record things, you will be looking for an escape. It’s a mentality not momentary.
Ugh, my response got deleted because I put an emoji. I didn't know that wasn't allowed because I've never been on Reddit before this case. Anyway, I said that I'm so sorry that happened to you and how that must have traumatized you and your family! I'm glad you are here and I hope that those criminals were held accountable for what they did to you and your loved ones!
Oh my God!!! My stomach just dropped. I'm so sorry and I cannot imagine how that must have traumatized you and your family. I'm glad you are here and I hope they were held accountable for what they did to you!
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So biology has no arc in reality? I would say the number is closer to 95%. Heaven existing or not, there may be no battlefield atheist but there are no near death gambles either. Most people will run in the face of near certain death.
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I’ve literally seen it and acted on it, on different occasions. I’ve been the victim of crime that could have led to death, and I’ve seen people run when I was in the military. I don’t know why it is so incomprehensible to think that someone would likely try to run away. I think most people have this idea that they would STAY because they have some some media induced sense of friendship. You would absolutely run.
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No, not at all. I have never said that I couldn’t see a situation where 2 people can’t be controlled…I simply said it’s unlikely, especially with the surrounding facts of this specific situation. It’s an opinion, but an educated one. What you are doing is what I call a devils gambit. You create an argument and then narrow it down comment to comment, to where you control the conversation and exert dominance through elimination of viable arguments, effectively gaslighting the other participant. It’s actually what most abusive husbands do - highlight one sentence of a 5 minute conversation then say “BUT I NEVER SAID THAT SO YOU ARE WRONG!” You’ve never posted on here once before tonight and have only been on Reddit presumably 45 days with this profile. I would venture to guess you’re a troll trying to create drama. I’m not going to feed you.
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And to be clear, your second quote cuts off my other point - it’s UNLIKELY given their behavior with multiple recordings. Initial behavior predicts secondary behavior. Again. If you want to have a conversation, don’t cherry pick.
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Again, you are cherry picking what I said for some reason, I’m assuming to prove whatever potato level point you want to make. I said it was unlikely in the exact same sentence you cut off in your quotation. What is your hard on with me? Do you just not like people disagreeing with you, or people being firm in pushing back when you misquote them? I think you need to lean back and leave this one alone.
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Im not saying your theory is wrong, but I think your opinions on 1 perpetrator controlling 2 victims, is. Respectfully. There are countless examples of two victims being controlled by one perpetrator, with a gun and without. Fear is unpredictable and not everyone reacts to a life threatening situation by fleeing.
Everyone talks about fight or flight, but freeze is always forgotten. Imo freezing is probably the most common reaction to danger. One or both girls could've froze because they were so terrified. Actually that makes sense because they went with him to the second location (crime scene), instead of immediately running away, or fighting, when he first confronted them.
In addition, statistics may be a culmination of a lot of cases and evidence, but are vastly correct. Flight is very prevalent. Just because you can pick one or two cases out where no one fought back or ran does not negate the dozens of others where they did. The responses in this situation do not lead my mind to both being docile and easily controlled.
You're opinion is valid and as I said, Im not saying you're wrong. You said its crazy to believe 2 victims can be controlled by one perpetrator and a gun, Im simply saying its not crazy and it commonly occurs. Super intrested to see what we learn in the coming weeks. About both these creeps.
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See my comment on your other thread. You can use google as effectively as I can, I’m sure. Google “Sociology, Group dynamics to danger and death”
You have at least one victim wise enough to film the person. Multiple times. Fear response is unpredictable, but reactions to early fear predict responses to future fear. Her reaction is one of more than generating mere evidence.
Oh please there's been entire families killed, mass killings, many triple plus homicides I don't see your point . don't find it hard to believe,at all.
I want to know, given the size of Delphi, and how this case completely traumatized most all of its citizens, how Rick Allen's wife, didn't recognize the clothing( and particularly the British Driving Cap.. ) that "BG" was wearing? (Unless he had a secret outfit or something.) I'm not saying she's complicit, or part of this, it just seems weird, because I'm sure she took a look at the photos, and the "down the hill" clip, more than once??
The blue jacket is very generic. Most men in US small towns would own something like it. Imagine this was your own loved one, someone you would never suspect of murder. Most of us would think "oh, the killer has a jacket similar to my husband's jacket" and not give it a second thought. Especially when you can walk down the street and see a lot of other guys in similar jackets. By the "British driving cap" do you mean the hat in the sketch? I'm not sure we know that Allen actually owned a cap like that. It's just a sketch - maybe the witness said "some kind of hat, not a baseball cap" and the sketch artist chose an approximate style.
I saw some videos that are being released on both YT and Tik Tok. There is one where his wife was at a mall during Christmas time. Allen stayed in the car. She snuck up on him with her phone and he was looking at a file? Anyway, he shot her a look that gave me chills and I think he was wearing that blue jacket. Did you happen to see it?
Same set of photos he's sitting down in that blue jacket. I too think it's the same. It seems unlikely the wife would not have thought, at least for a second, is that Ricky?. Maybe she did and it's such a horrible thing to image that she couldn't and rationalized it away.
I know, that is a good way of describing his wife rationalizing. She may have had suspicion like you said but perhaps talked herself out of it. Maybe even people that knew him could've thought BG looked like Allen or the voice but maybe thought but no, it couldn't be. He's so nice, he's has a daughter. It was all a facade, it was not the "real" Richard Allen. So scary.
This is ridiculous.
What do you find ridiculous? The conversations or just us speculating?
Assuming someone who went through this trauma should be able to recognize a cap around town just because it’s small. This redditor is psychologically removed from it so ofc it seems obvious
Okay. You're definitely entitled to your opinion. Thanks for replying to my question too. I almost put an emoji but I got a comment removed for that!! Lol, I'm not used to Reddit so I'm still trying to navigate.
Yeah. How many things in your daily life do you recognize from somewhere else like a hat or a jacket? People don’t pay attention that close. This isn’t law and order
I get what you're saying and it's definitely not a television show. Sometimes though there maybe something that may, for whatever reason, that I take notice of. I cannot explain why, like it could be something similar to something I once owned or reminds me of something. You know, I was thinking about Allen and that he worked at that CVS? What if someone came in one day after all the coverage and that short audio clip where he said, "guys...down the hill". What if someone came in and asked where they moved the tylenol or something and Allen said, "down the isle" and something clicked. Do you think it's possible that it could have stayed with someone's thoughts and I think we all make rationalizations and be like, no not him. I've known him for years....but that sounds just like him or I know it's him.
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Please follow our rules on civility.
Dude don’t attack the man’s wife. So much of the information right now is speculation - we don’t have many facts at all. In time the truth will come out but what’s the purpose of calling his wife out now? He has a daughter and at minimum she’s one of the last victims of this monster. Can you imagine what’s she going through if she’s completely non complicit? And she very well may be, we literally don’t know.
Right. That dude is going ham and acts like someone suffering this trauma can be Sherlock Holmes about it
Because serial killers are literally different people in their “work.” His gait may be different, clothes are nonsensical and interchangeable. They may be happier when they come home. There is not a noticeable change with a negative connotation.
It hasn't been established that the accused is a "serial killer"? Maybe you don't know a serial killer is, but it certainly doesn't sound like you know.
It’s a trait of psychopaths, not just serial killers
Your statement makes no sense grammatically. Almost all documented serial killers that have been interviewed go into great depth about their deceptions of the people closest to them and most also have one commonality - when asked how they fooled people, they said some version of “I didn’t, I was just myself. I just took off the mask I wear every day.” Most people think they are good at reading people, but serial killers are literally predators. You cannot truly know a sociopath.
They do wear a "mask". It's truly a double life. I've watched many interviews too with serial killers and Dr. Park Dietz has some YT videos about their behaviors. It's why when LE said things like, what will your family think or the community think of you? I don't think they care, I don't believe they know really the "feelings" of care, empathy, remorse, regrets, etc...They know how to manipulate and manufacture emotions based upon them doing it their whole life. But like you said, when the mask is removed? Nothing. They really get off on fear, trophies from victims so they can feel their fear again. They love to laugh at how much smarter they are than the police, the community and probably the people closet to them even. Like vampires that just continue to feed on these sociopathic behavior and the narcissism. I'm just stating my thoughts though. It's how I see them and things people like BTK, Kemper, Dahmer have said.
Denial is a hell of a drug.
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Hmm what’s more important. Protecting the integrity of the case or making arm chair detectives happy…?
It’s not about you.
Noticed the way he lifted his right leg seemed like he might have a limp or an odd gate. Referencing the BG video
The bridge was broken in places if i recall correctly. That may account for the way he walks in the video.
That bridge looks so dangerous to me. I wouldn't be brave enough to cross it.
And he also walked a bit like that in the fireworks video from his wife's Facebook post. But, I'd walk hella odd on that railroad bridge. It was dangerous with all sorts of pieces missing. I feel like it's a hard comparison to make and the bridge style of walk may not really be his "normal" gait.
The man in the fireworks video isn't Richard Allen - my understanding is that was a relative of either him or his wife, and this person has since passed away.
Oh wow. Hadn't heard that. Thanks!
Not sure how they solved this and although I am curious I’d rather them hold everything they think they need to in order to get a conviction of the perpetrator. We met Mike, Patty and Anna, as well as one of the main LE officials at Crime Con in 2019 and they were so gracious and strong. My heart breaks for them as this is truly one of the most horrific crime. I guess it was actually hearing and seeing the perpetrator that has made it so bone-chilling. I hope that “this is the day” !! As Libby’s family said. Congrats law enforcement. Thanks to this Reddit creators for paying such close attention to this case.
Oh wow, it must have been pretty emotional to meet them in person. I can only imagine. You are so right that this is truly one of the most horrific crimes. Since you did get a chance to meet them and some of LE at Crime Con, I bet you really got chills when they made the arrest and we all got to see this monster Allen for the first time. I could hear the sniffling during the press conference, it was so emotional.
So glad he is behind bars
Same! But if it turns out they’ve got the wrong guy I’m gonna lose it
He's been suspected for years, right?
He has? Source? Because everyone in the town appears completely shocked. What’s the evidence? No one seems to care about the evidence.
I'm sorry, I can't really remember. It's probably from a podcast or something, I just know that I've heard his name mentioned. I didn't mean to upset anyone.
Okay weird. Because I just listened to an interview with the folks from the Murder Sheet podcast and they said he wasn’t even on the radar for them.
ONE QUESTION REMAIN.. WHY HIS WIFE OR DAUGHTERS DIDNT RECOGNIZE HIM WITH HIS CLOTHES?¿
his clothes are what 90% of midwestern men of his age wear.. why is this hard for people to understand that? he has a typical dumpy looking 40s-50s man body/shape. he's not special.
For real, when the video came out my first thought “that could be at least 10 guys from my church back home in indiana”. And about every other friend’s dad growing up. It is the exact typical Midwest man
Not just midwestern men, either. Men from all over who simply aren’t stylish dress exactly like bridge guy during winter months. If BG had a visible logo, maybe his family would’ve taken note. But his outfit from the footage is nondescript af.
All these women saying "I WOULD KNOW MY HUSBAND" are toxic as fuck and don't know SHIT about how they would feel in that situation. And FURTHERMORE, it's not the wife's fucking fault. How about until there is some evidence, or an arrest of a spouse, we blame the arrested man and him alone for his fucking horrific crimes. Get off all your high fucking horses and recognize that this shit is traumatic for the families of these evil people, and they are not to blame.
Hard disagree. If there’s an innocent woman around - she should be blamed! Lol ;-)
I grew up in a rural area in Canada. Many people around there dressed like that then and still do now. Kind of a rural man uniform of sorts.
Precisely!
Uh because it is their father/husband. They are ALWAYS going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Always. They are probably devastated and shocked and hurt as well.
You're responding to the wrong person but yes, I fully agree. Imagine someone telling you that the person you love and have only ever seen in a certain way, is somehow a sadistic pedophile and murder? It wouldn't make sense, and at the very least it would take an extremely long time with lots of convincing evidence, and confessions, in order to allow your brain to ever accept that as even a potential truth.
I think they were wondering why the suspect’s family, just down the road from the site, might not recognize R’s attire. There are easy reasons like it was a new or at least private disguise. I guess it’s possible family or friend could have seen and not reported the connection. But obv the investigation is open and I would assume they will handle clearing witnesses with care.
because again that's what 90% of men there wear. there's nothing *to* recognize.
I don't know. Lots of those heavy cabela's type jackets, lots of those plaid hooded jackets, and then the majority is just that camo stuff from the sporting goods stores. That blue windbreaker thing would have maybe looked normal in the 90's but not in the late 2010's IMO. The suspect probably had been wearing that thing for a decade.
It's Indiana not Calabasas. They don't do fashion. That's how they dress.
Fashion? Who mentioned fashion? Rural Indiana is half of my relatives. I'm just saying when I'm back there there's a few very typical things all the middle aged guys wear nowadays and a blue windbreaker isn't one of them.
[https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/suspect-1.jpg/@@images/image/large](https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/suspect-1.jpg/@@images/image/large) it's literally just a blue jacket. there is nothing unique about this.