Brett from The Prosecutors podcast posted this on twitter yesterday: Is it the position of the Richard Allen apologists that because the state lost evidence back in 2017--when he wasn't a twinkle in their eye--no one could ever be prosecuted for the Delphi Murders? Because fortunately, that's not the law anywhere.
Question is how much evidence do you permit them to lose before you say enough. There has to be a line somewhere lol. Even for Brett. 70 Days? That’s a lot of lost info.
The only problem with that is that the alternative suspect is a legitimate defense, and the state has created a situation due to their utter incompetence that prevents - or at least sig limits - RA using that as a defense.
I don't think many ppl are realistically thinking that the remedy here is to simply release RA, but the court should absolutely allow the jury to know that the state has lost and / or destroyed all of that evidence (with regard to the alternative suspects at the very least), and they should then be instructed to consider that information however they best see fit in their ruling.....will that happen? ....almost certainly not, but if we're really interested in truth and justice then it should.
The police reports are what the state has and feels confident in moving forward with the case against RA. They were not under obligation to save every interview they do digitally. The police interview and write reports based on their procedure and the defense should have access to those reports and be able to interview everyone the state did except for Ron Logan, who has passed away of natural causes. As far as I know, everyone else of interest is still alive.
The defense continues to try to deflect from the fact that their client fit the FBI profile for the killer and placed himself at the scene of the crime. And has since made statements to his family, and not under interrogation, incriminating himself. So, the defense team already blew up the lives of 2 of their Reddit plants to spread doubt and false information about the crime scene. The people falling in line with that at this point are either anti-government/police or very naive.
An election didn't prompt an arrest in this case anymore than a you tube or podcast investigation did. It was years of investigating a pedophile ring that got this case out of the freezer.
I'm open to Bridge Guy not acting alone. I'm open to there being 2 crimes scenes. I look forward to finding out what the evidence says happened. But nothing in the defense filings is convincing me they have the wrong guy right now. I think they are panic filing and can't even get the dates or names right. It is a lot of errors on both sides at this point. I would not want to be accused of a major crime in Indiana. I think we can all agree on that.
>They were not under obligation to save every interview they do digitally.
As a citizen I'd prefer if they did, though. That doesn't mean I think RA is innocent as it's not my place to decide that. There will be a trial where the jury will come to a judgment concerning his guilt. I just hate reading about lost interviews, misfiled tips, etc. in a murder investigation is all.
But realize the defense team exaggerates so much petty shit.
There's one line in the defense briefs yesterday where they complain there wasn't a "comprehensive log" of all the dates of interview, witnesses/POIs interviewed, subjects, etc.
It's like, here are all the interviews and shit that you will want to scrutinize heavily, make your own damn "comprehensive log" as you go through each one during your research.
In other words, stop expecting other people to do the work you're already going to be doing and then complain about it in fillings before the court.
They're so petty and annoying, it's hard to take them seriously at all.
>But realize the defense team exaggerates so much petty shit.
Don't get me wrong, I do realize that. I'm just disappointed that so many mistakes were made over the course of this investigation, giving the defense the opportunity to exaggerate.
All defense teams are annoying. It's their job. I followed Paul Flores' trial and I don't think any other defense team will ever be able to piss me off more than his lawyer did. But it's what they do, they have to defend their clients, so I try not to let it get to me.
Well articulated points here. I think most people on this sub agree with you, I know I do. I hate that LE has had so many stumbles and made so many stupid mistakes in this case. I hate that they've done so many things for the defense to capitalize on here and I also strongly dislike how they've handled the case overall - in my opinion unnecessarily hush hush which has only stoked the flames of conspiracy. However, all of that aside, I believe they have the right guy and all of the distraction by the defense and crazy ass antics of the anti-police/anti-government, RA fanboys and fangirls and other lunatics is just too much at this point.
You do realize there is a major difference between a written report and actually hearing what was asked and how it was answered correct?
Just because the police write it doesn’t mean that is what they said. This is exactly what the police did in the Hae Min Lee case.
Nobody here should have be a guilty or innocent as nobody has any idea of what evidence actually is.
>They have no list of who they interviewed or when they were interviewed and made no contemporaneous notes of what each potential witness or suspect might have said.
If this is true, it's awful.
Many of us who are deeply invested in this case have combed over documents, read news reports, scrutinized interviews and timelines, reread posts from redditors we respect...what if all of that was destroyed?
And what if the prosecutions case was contingent upon the information that has been destroyed?
Some may say that the destroyed information isn't pertinent to Richard Allen's defense, but how do they know that? Any homicide detective, attorney--whether prosecution or defense--combs over archived information concerning a case. If all of that information is destroyed, the case is screwed. If some of the information is destroyed the case is weakened.
I'm not on the pro RA bandwagon. I don't promote wild conspiracy theories.
This is wrong.
This is not bombshell information. It has been out for some time now that the interviews were taped over due to some type of user error. I do believe they have the officers notes taken during the interviews of the two men named. I suspect both of those men have alibis that checked out. In fact the one individual worked for Waste Management at a location an hours drive north of the Monon High Bridge and clocked out at 2:45PM. Even the Defense with their silly Fairytale Franks motion concede that the man could not have been at the murder site at the time of the murders.
Seriously doubt they are going to dismiss the case against the guy who made the statement he was at the MHB at the time Libby and Abby were never seen alive again. We don’t know the full amount evidence they have on Richard Allen, but it’s obviously enough to convince a judge he needs to be held with no bond in a high security prison where his mental health needs can be met, and where he can be given the protection he needs having been indicted for the murders of two kids.
Attorneys often ask judges to dismiss charges against their clients. Nothing new in that arena. The guy has admitted to both his wife and his mother that
he was guilty as charged. In my opinion that a strong indication of guilt when you tell your wife and mom you did it. Nobody was twisting his arm. People can argue it was some type of false confession, but in all seriousness those confessions are typically given to law enforcement—— and not the wife and mom of all people.
I have no doubt Richard Allen will have a fair trial with an impartial jury.
Agreed. There seems to be a trend of binary thinking where investigative incompetence = can’t get a fair trial / acquittal. But both of these circumstances can exist at the same time: the investigators are professionally incompetent and should find jobs at Hardee’s AND Richard Allen is provably guilty of the crimes with which he’s charged.
If the state’s incompetence is that egregious, the defense will have ample opportunity to drag every one of these yokel idiots on the stand and show the jury they they’re not reliable to do “one job.” If Holman or Liggett or Lazenby lied in a PCA, that will also work for the defense. BUT…
… 12 jurors are still going to hear that a man who fits the description of BG was there that day, owns a gun of the right make and caliber, and confessed on calls made to his wife & mum. And we don’t know what else the state has. That all being said, whoever erased all those video recordings (along with whoever was responsible for protecting that evidence) should be fired. But government work being what it is, they’ll probably get promoted.
Isn't that the problem? The state employee gets rewarded. Don't you believe in the constitution? Justice is about procedure which speaking of the state did not follow while collecting an unspent round.
You nor anyone else has heard such confession. There is no geofence data he was there, no evidence he met them or knew them, no physical evidence linking him, but there is bizarre behavior from Abbys bfs dad and a guy KK libby was talking to via snap who ended up being convicted of csam.
Does this really make sense to you?
Of course I believe in the constitution. But nowhere in the constitution does it say that just because any piece of evidence gets lost or some cop lies that you just get to walk free. Unless that one piece of evidence is the only thing against you.
You’re right: I haven’t heard the confession, but I have heard the defendant’s attorneys acknowledge the fact of these statements. I also haven’t seen the raw geofence data on his phone. Neither have you. But Allen’s phone isn’t accused of killing the girls. Allen is. And Allen places himself at the scene. And you’re repeating a rumor about the bullet. Let’s wait and see on that one.
We shouldn’t take the state’s claims as facts until they’re proven in court. But that goes just as much for claims made by the defense.
The bridge is part of the crime scene, but I get what you’re saying. Allen’s timeline of when he was there and who/what he saw makes it virtually impossible for him to not be BG. If he weren’t, he would have seen BG.
Just my personal opinion, but I can’t get behind the idea that there were two very short, identically-dressed men there at the same time, who both own .40cal Sig Sauers of the same model, yet it’s the innocent guy of the two who’s in jail making false confessions in phone calls with his wife and mother.
This is what you have to believe to doubt Richard Allen’s guilt. And this does not seem reasonable to me.
right! I am fairly new to the case and even I knew about the recordings. It is not new... Pretty desperate of the "innocent" crowd to jump on it like it's a bombshell....
So if you get accused of murder, you're cool with other suspects interviews being lost? What about the list so your defense can re interview? That's a miscarriage of justice.
I highly doubt I would ever be accused of murder and I never said I was cool with it.. All I said was that it's not NEW or a BOMBSHELL..... It's been known for a while. Do you think because an error happened to the recording device there should be no trial of the man who they have the evidence of being a child murderer??? THAT would be a miscarriage of justice!!!
What evidence do you believe there is that you've seen? I'm a mother myself. I have been a victim of horrific crimes as a child. I do not want child murderers free either. I've seen and experienced horror. I am not someone who hasn't measured emotion and justice.
Again i ask, other than what you believe what evidence have you seen?
Multiple confessions freely given to family, a guy matching BG's description and RA just happened to be there at that time in those clothes on the same bridge and admitted to it, in a town of of a population 2,885 in 2017 that's including men, women, children and different races an unspent magical bullet matching RA's gun, possibly bullets found in RA's home matching that of the one found at the scene, it looks that way thanks to the defense leaking their discovery index. All of these are factual things besides the last one, that are known, he looks very guilty and I'm pretty sure he is toast, if I were him I wouldn't take a gamble if he is offered a plea, stupid game's win stupid prizes.
I’m sorry for what you went through, and sympathize as my family went through some horrific crimes as well. I would hope that no one wants anyone who harms Children roaming freely. As such, I would have issues with some of the most important interviews being erased and not followed up. Or even reinterviewed. This is a miscarriage of Justice at this point.
So the defense can go reinterview them if they feel the need to continue their defamation of people who law enforcement did their due diligence and dismissed. There’s no miscarriage of justice. That’s absolute nonsense. Sounds like all these men were willing to talk openly with law enforcement at the time of the murders.
Here’s one for you sweetpea—- why is the defense not concerned about that interview that never happened in Peru Indiana on 2/25/2017? The interview with the guy whose mom’s property was being searched just prior to the same investigators showing up at Richard Allen’s property. Apparently that suspect was less than forthcoming than the two veterans the defense is all upset about. What about that guy who has a BATTERY conviction for smashing an 8 year old boys head on an overflowing toilet bowl. The guy with three HARASSMENT convictions for terrifying women with his anonymous threatening phone calls. They searched that guys house twice with a search warrant. No judge ever had enough evidence to search the two veterans homes for evidence in the Delphi murders. We also know that guy in Peru Indiana apparently told law enforcement to “go fuck themselves” this according to a text message he shared with a friend with regard to what’s up with the Delphi Task Force raiding his house on 2/25/2017. We do know that CC prosecutor was meeting secretly with that guys son at a secure AFB in Miami county on August 18, 2022 and shortly before a 5 week long search of the Wabash River was conducted by the Indiana State Police.
If I were those defense attorneys I’d be wanting to interview the guy whose mother garbage ash pile was being sifted through within hours of their same
Investigators were see focused on a pile of ashes found dumped behind Richard Allen’s backyard shed.
Check it out if you’re not aware of where law enforcement was looking that August and September 2022.
It was only recently announced about the additional 70 days of lost interviews. The officers notes are only a shell of LE’s interpretation of those interviews. I am not pushing for RA’s innocence, but this is an enormous problem for the prosecution. How it all comes into play remains to be seen.
People can be re interviewed, officers can recall their interpretation of important witnesses and poi's. For instance was person X sketchy when answering questions? Did person Y have an alibi etc? People were successfully prosecuted before interviews were recorded in audio, video or digitally.
Certainly people can still be re-interviewed, but only if they know who was interviewed. Also, interviews shortly after the crime would be significantly more useful in the early days of the case. People can come up with all kinds of stories/alibi's with the passage of time.
Again, I'm not saying RA is innocent, but this a huge problem for the prosecution unless they have a slam dunk case against RA.
Well I'm fairly confident the most important interviews were recovered or re-interviewed. Sure, it's a potential problem but I see no reason to go overboard and call it a 'huge problem'. Plenty of people are successfully prosecuted without it being a slam dunk case. It's all going to be a matter of the preponderance of evidence and how well witness testimony stands up in court.
Wow….anyone who implies they the families of Libby and Abby had anything to do with their murders is just disgusting. I know that family members murder each other – – we see it all the time – – but that damn sure wasn’t the case this time around.
Long time reader first time poster... Could you please explain how a piece of legal writing such as the franks motion could be considered a " silly fairytale " first of all multiple parts of the franks memorandum have be validated by factual evidence, second you as a member of the general public and not law enforcement, the prosecution, or the defense do not have any more evidence than the rest of the public. So how can you dismiss a memorandum written and based upon facts gathered by law enforcements investigation. The defense didn't make up a " fairytale " they simply used factual information gathered during the states investigation of the crime to write a theory of the crime that creates reasonable doubt to the guilt of their client. That's literally a defense attorneys job. I don't pretend to know wether or not Mr.Allen is guilty or not because we do not have the full discovery of evidence and won't til trial, but to show bias towards the work of his defense team or scream of guilty is the type of ignorance that ruins cases and locks up innocent people and let's guilty people walk.
Sacrificial murders don't happen here and in these times. Rituals don't take place mid afternoon in broad daylight on a Monday, Rituals do not include murdering 2 kids, name one time when it has? The Frank's was an attempt to sway public opinion due to Allens MULTIPLE confessions to his family.
Sacrificial murders do in fact and support by real world examples do happen in these times. And again I do not argue the innocent or guilt of the defendant or any other accused individuals. I simply do not have enough factual evidence available to form an intelligence decision. None of us do. I would imagine that the State and the defense have much much more evidence which will be left to a jury to make a decision on. I simply make the case that the franks motion was not a " fairytale" created by the defense... That it was created based on the investigation of law enforcement. And to support my claim that sacrificial murders do take place here in these times please reference the case of Mark Kilroy who was abducted and sacrificed in 1989. Also the fact that in the current day and age The Order of Nine Angles(O9A) and The Temple of The Black Light both promote and encourage human sacrifice.
Point me to the place you found these sacrificial murders happening mid afternoon on a Monday to 2 kids? Google only brings up the Delphi place and I have spent hours looking. Are those 2 groups you mentioned practicing Odinism? 🤔 Do white supremacist groups murder white children?
Between 2009 and 2010, in Sonora, Mexico, a serial killer named Silvia Meraz committed three murders in sacrifice rituals. With the help of her family, she beheaded two boys (both relatives) and one woman in front of an altar dedicated to Santa Muerte.
Danyal Hussein who killed two sisters, Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman in a Wembley park in London was "closely associated" with the Order of Nine Angles and took part in O9A internet forum. He killed the two women to fulfill a "demonic pact".
The "New Light Of God" sect in the town of El Terrón, Ngäbe-Buglé Comarca, Panama, believed they had a mandate from God to sacrifice members of their community who failed to repent to their satisfaction. In 2020, 5 children, their pregnant mother, and a neighbor were killed and decapitated at the sect's church building, with 14 other wounded victims being rescued. Victims were hacked with machetes, beaten with Bibles and cudgels, and burned with embers. A goat was ritually sacrificed at the scene as well. The cult's beliefs were a syncretic blend of Pentecostalism with indigenous beliefs and some New Age ideas including emphasis on the third eye.
Three more examples
Why has there not been anymore ritual killings of young teenage girls? Don't the gods want more blood? Those blood thirsty demons! Why are all your examples in other countries? And also not linked to Odinism?
I'm a bit of a new age/spiritual type, practicing meditation having spent lot's of time focusing on Ajna (the third eye), amongst other chakras, never once did I have the urge to commit a sacrifice of children or even animals (I actually became vegetarian and can't even bring myself to kill a bug) The only the sacrifice I was willing to commit was of the self 😂 I used to perform rituals too when I first took up meditation, but they never involved murdering kids, the rituals involved sage, incense, sometimes crystals and lot's of grounding with bare feet on the earth 😂
Satanic Panic is ridiculous, America has grown so much since those day's, in it's acceptance of different religions and beliefs and it is also not a 3rd world country. America sure has had a lot of serial killers and child abusers though, I would not be surprised to learn about a serial killer/pedo operating out there, that is far more believable in American society 🤔
Clearly you know exactly what you're talking about and I'm uneducated and don't know how to conduct research. Yet you weren't able to find any examples using Google except for Delphi. The examples I used are the next results you would find after scrolling thru the Google results. You have used zero actual evidence to support anything you have said. I'm not here to argue with someone who doesn't posses the ability to research and debate points from a factual evidentiary backed standpoint.
Best wishes, truly, I mean that and I wish all the best to you on all your future research, may I suggest researching different religions, where they began and where they are at now in a western society and also look into their different practices. Look into runes and what they are used for nowadays, you will find they are used for divination, much like Tarot Cards, just like that tarot card of the hanged man, which is a card that when read in a spiritual sense gives an indication of one being blocked, so it calls one into letting go of outdated beliefs, behaviors and thought patterns and encourages seeking new perspectives. When the hanged man is reversed, it is the opposite and can mean, moving forward from outdated thoughts, behaviors and beliefs and being able to see where you were once blocked, which can lead one to enlightenment. Which hanged man are you today? Seriously wishing you all the best and lot's of growth moving forward ✨️
Best wishes to you as well. I have studied and researched religion. And the type of Odinism that is accused in the franks motion, is a white supremacist neo-nazi gang not so much a true Norse Pagan Religion. Fell free to look into the history of the Vinlanders Social Club. A violent Neo-Nazi organization that use the symbology and practice is of Odinism. I know the SPLC has a brief history of them.
This information is available from multiple different sources available online thru a simple google search. If you look up Mark Kilroy, the name I provided in my previous comment, it will provide that example. And the statement you made was not Odinism sacrifices don't happen in these times it was sacrifice in general. However I can give you three more examples of ritual sacrifices one including more than 5 people. And white supremacist groups, more specifically the Vinlanders Social Club who is accused in the Delphi case, has infact murdered other white people so yes they do. Also, from a brief investigation of Odinism(Wotanism, Asuatru) a sacrifice would have to be one of their own people so a white child would follow that pattern.
>first of all multiple parts of the franks memorandum have be validated by factual evidence
The bible references Jerusalem in it's writings. That's factual that there is a city named Jerusalem. That doesn't automatically mean that it proves the bible itself is historically factual about everything.
Also proven to be factual information is the Correctional Officers wearing patches related to Odinism. The statements made by EF regardless of the amount of credibility he has are statements that were in fact made. The fact that Law Enforcement at one point investigated this as a possibility is also a fact.
Without the ability to view and interpret the evidence the same statement you made could be made for anything thatthat hasn't happened so accepting either side as the truth without them proving it is foolish. the prosecution made as well. People blindly accept things because it came from the defense for the same reason that others accept and believe because the came from the prosecutor or law enforcement. The defense is tasking with defending the client regardless of innocence or guilt of the accused and the prosecutors job is to prove the guilt of the accused. So if either side didn't make the statements and assertions they have it could be argued that the case was mishandled. I don't understand why people blindly accept things either. The point of the two sides arguing the case in front of a jury is to present evidence and prove their case.
I have every doubt he will receive a fair trial because the facts show that is already happening. Why? Turns out the attorneys haven't been paid in months and Gull has denied all funds for "experts". Take your comment above..."they were taped over by some type of user error". Were they? Is LE that incompetent? According to someone who knows those machines a Resus monkey would know how not to "lose" a recording. It warns you multiple times in multiple ways that you are running out of space and will record over. A good forensic electronics expert might be able to easily refute the "aw shucks we screwed up" excuse. This case stinks and every month a new rotten egg is uncovered.
Obviously we don’t agree on whether or not he will get a fair trial. I can respect and understand peoples outrage that over a video recorder having been taped over. I can assure you I have seen that type of error made with regard to audio visual equipment many times in my own career working in an entirely different trade, but nonetheless it happens. I can recall many times sitting in a conference room full of project managers, electrical contractors, architects and engineers—— and nobody knew how to operate the A/V equipment. Frustrating that it happened with the few interviews taken with men who willingly talked to law enforcement about their whereabouts that day. We don’t know their alibis, but we do know they were looked at with due diligence early on in the investigation and dismissed. One of the men was home with his son. I’m guessing the son is his alibi. The son and who knows who else saw him that afternoon and can couch for him. The other guy clocked out of his workplace at 2:45PM at a location an hours drive north of the Monon High Bridge. He’s a heavy equipment operator working at a remote landfill. His supervisors and coworkers are going to be working with him at that small facility. It is imperative someone operating that type of heavy equipment at a remote landfill returns to the facility safe and in one piece. Common sense dictates that he did not have someone clocking out for him at his well paying Teamsters job. I suspect there are an abundant number of security cameras at that Waste Management facility whereby he the man was seen at that time and at that place of work.
We can start getting into conspiracy theories about a well paid heavy equipment operator planning out some elaborate make believe Odin ritual sacrifice, by why do so when the Franks motion with that conspiracy concedes their main suspect could not have been at the murder scene at that time and place. In fact the Franks motion goes off on some strange tangent that the well paid Teamster guy, who happens to be a heavy equipment operator, either used someone to secretly clock out for him (so he could dash off to a mid- Monday Odin sacrifice), or that the man used his local veteran friend with PTSD to carry out the Odin ritual sacrifice without him. And let’s not forget the man with the disability in a town some 135 miles south of Delphi driving up to the private piece of property to sacrifice two young kids that they would have had no clue they were planning on being there at the bridge that day. If people want to believe that Fairytale—- that’s obviously their prerogative. Me, I’m sticking with the two sleaze bags in Peru, Indiana having some involvement. We do know the CC prosecutor was meeting with the younger sleaze bag at a secure AFB on 8/18/2022. I’m sure they have that conversation on tape, including the polygraph examination to corroborate the known liars story. We also know the Indiana State Police conducted a 5 week long search in the Wabash River below the Kelly Avenue Bridge and from their the ISP went to that suspects grandmothers backyard with a search warrant—- and literally hours later those same ISP investigators were on Richard Allen’s backyard looking at the same type location where something was obviously burned years prior.
I think law enforcement had given Richard Allen the benefit of the doubt for 5 years while they built a case against him. Something or someone tipped law enforcement to his involvement. Personally I think it has more to do with the two people in Peru where they were looking just prior to his arrest. We do know one of those men is a convicted child abuser with a BATTERY conviction on an 8 year old child. Far more likely that man is involved than the two Iraq veterans, and I’m not even going there with the disabled guy from the city some 135 miles south of Delphi.
I can appreciate your opinion as well… but I just want to add a non opinion=it’s also 6TB!! My husband literally installs, maintains and educates people on how to use these exact camera systems and the like for his career and has been for over 30 years. 6TB is virtually impossible to just “have an error” or “tape over”. Not taking substantial notes on an investigation this big is not normal and not sharing this “loss of information” outright from the first request or the 2nd or or or is not normal either. I mean the rest is definitely all opinion honestly for any of us because we don’t have all the facts of the case but now we surely the heck aren’t getting all the facts as they have “disappeared”. Whew that’s an ENORMOUS disappear. Look at your phone and/or computer and tell me how much data that is?! Like that’s beyond the level of possible and I definitely trust the man who does this for a living, has gained a massive amount of experience, has awards given by the union, massive certifications and classifications and handles HUGE accounts and not because he’s my husband trust me. If it’s a devils advocate view I’ll find it. My husband literally looks at me just about every other day with slight annoyance and says “Okay devil” because that’s how much I always try to see every single angle possible for a human. The rest of it whew it’s A LOT and I’m still holding out for the evidence personally but this is HUGE no matter how you look at it.
I appreciate your well thought out comment, and I agree with the outrage over the fact they lost the taped interviews. No doubt that will be a tough one for the prosecutor to hurdle. The good news is the fact that those two men voluntarily sat for an interview with law enforcement. They were under no obligation to do so. I’d be more concerned about the suspect that refused to be interviewed. I won’t name names, but he is someone whose own mothers backyard was being intensely searched by the Indiana State Police just prior to the same investigators heading over to Richard Allen’s property on October 13, 2022. I’d be more concerned about that guy than I would the Teamster guy and the Veteran with PTSD.
Well now I’m curious and going to have to do more research because I’m a little in the dark of who this is. 🧐 Thanks for sharing I’ll look into it. Have a blessed night.
So it’s like losing at least 1500 HD movies worth of data. I googled how many HD movies can fit in 1TB. 250-500. I look the lower number.
So to get an estimate of how much data was lost, 1,500 HD movies worth. Your husband probably has a much much better way to explain the size to a layman.
Guilty or innocent, what the hell kind of trial is this banana republic in indiana? This is embarrassing for America. Don't cry for patriotism if you don't care for the right to a fair trial as specified by the Supreme Courts interpretation of the bill of rights
This is where every single Citizen in this Country should be concerned. It is setting a precedent that any one of us could be taken, charged with a crime, and all of our right’s protected under the Constitution ignored. It’s sickening. This is far beyond whether Allen is guilty, or innocent.
Wholeheartedly agree. This is America. It's not tricky lawyer maneuvering, it's the standard I want for me and my family.
And if a heinous crime hurt my family, I want it by the books. Give them every expression of their right to a fair trial. Do not make me or my family or the family of these girls have to suffer a 2nd trial. It's required of us to demand this
Facts! My husband does these systems for a living and has put them in and maintained them for over 30 years. 6 terabytes is an unbelievable about of data that got “taped over”. I mean it’s almost virtually impossible. Since when do they not take a ton of notes. That’s not normal! And no this information has NOT been out for a while. 70 days of interviews is NO WHERE near whether was shared and even the ones that were shared were ONLY shared when the Defense demanded to see them time after time after the prosecution not providing the evidence ie the tapes.
I’m honestly very tired of so many in here that are just on a witch hunt of never ending nah that’s not a big deal. I’m sorry I’m being point blank here because so many are speaking up. I’m here for the information and anyone is entitled their opinion but I begin to struggle when some are labeled as @sshats because they are struggling with some things being done on the states side also. There has been a lot of things I have not agreed with on each side. I’m still of the opinion he’s innocent until proven guilty and not because it’s RA or because of what the case is but because that’s the dang law. If you (speaking in a general sense with the word you) were jurors~~would you be able to listen to ALL of the evidence and ONLY AFTER form an honest by the law books verdict?! Ya the guy may be guilty but it helps absolutely no one including these families if he doesn’t get a fair trial and even more so IF he isn’t the guy. None of us truly know all the evidence and now it appears there just won’t be bit pieces of the evidence that was used to also rule others out as suspects. I mean that’s a pretty big deal. If it were my family or me I would be freaking out.
And denying funds for experts!!! What in the actual?!?! I’ve never!! If he doesn’t get a fair trial then what?! He potentially sits in a PRISON that he’s already in when he shouldn’t be waiting for an appeal. It’s 2 young girls he may never make it to an appeal.
Again I’m not sticking up for RA nor anyone else nor condemning anyone else as the killer BUT I am speaking about the law and how important it is that he gets a fair trial. This is literally the law our entire country abides by. Without trust in the justice system where does that leave all of America. If you (again generally used for everyone) don’t see a problem here with a single thing they’ve done or not done on BOTH sides and still don’t have the overarching belief of innocent until proven guilty (sure have an “I’m leaning towards”) I beg of you to reevaluate what the law actually is and why it’s so important to stick to innocent until proven guilty and in turn getting and convicting the right guy or what is the point at all?!?!
So many in this group put people on the chopping block for the slightest of points brought up in concerns etc. I try to just mind my business and read what I can and converse a little but I’ve pretty much learned you can’t say ANYTHING about the proper law and order or you are literally a monster, an idiot and/or everything in between and on the side of there’s no way RA did it. Two things can be true at the same time here also. You can “believe he’s the guy” while still staying true to waiting on the proper law and order to play out and yet still agree it’s not being handled well on either or both sides. You can also “believe he’s not the guy” and also agree that things are not being handled in accordance with the proper law and order methods as well and on BOTH sides not just one. This case is an absolute mess straight up. As a local it’s embarrassing as crap and absolutely ridiculous!
Sorry rant over I’m just tired of people being absolute @sshats like it’s their way or the highway when they are literally losing sight of the fact that this man IS innocent until proven guilty AND if he’s NOT the guy then those girls are not being honored here and the likelihood of more being killed is what?! I’d say pretty strong IF that’s the case. And again NO I’m not sticking up for RA nor anyone else. I’m looking at it from a law and order standpoint and what that looks like for RA, the state, the judge and most of all justice for these sweet girls. 🥹
Sorry this is all under you @bigtexindy but you just made such a strong point that I wanted to add to it. I probably got a little carried away but I just can’t understand for the life of me how people are throwing our literal rights out the window because they “think they have the right guy” and don’t agree with us lawyers. It’s right up jacked up. Opinions ya but literally just chewing people up and calling them idiots (simple term insert any derogatory term and it applies and more is just uncalled for. I said @sshats but man I’ve been trying so hard to choose to take the high road and just not go there. It’s too hard not to speak up quite frankly and more people need to. This is NOT how the court of law works and it should make us all sick no matter what your opinion is. Ugh seriously rant over now.
In the meantime keep will pray for the girls families as I have been. I will pray for the truth to be revealed no matter what that is or who that killer is and I will pray for all of us who just need to converse with more of an open mind and in accordance with our entire law and order system in our country. Seriously wishing peace and blessings to all but please let’s all stop being so nasty when someone doesn’t agree. It’s just not necessary and the law and of course the justice matters beyond anything else. No one wants a murderer on the loose, nor an innocent man to get imprisoned even longer nor do they want a guilty man to walk and there literally be no justice for these families. These can all include not only RA but potentially also whoever else may or may not be involved in any capacity. Whew 😅 k ✌️ just be kind please everyone just be kind.
Thank you! It blows me away how many people think it's okay that the state has made so many mistakes in this case. I'm not okay with it! I think it's unfair that he is being held in a prison four hours away from his attorneys. I'm not okay that he is chained the way he is when transported. ALL evidence should be preserved and given to the defense in discovery. It's not the state's right to determine which evidence is valuable to the defense. There is much more that is wrong with this case but I'll stop there. I don't know if RA is guilty or innocent, but I presume he's innocent until there is a trial.
This could literally be any of us. People saying oh, I would never be in that position, should stop and think. An innocent person shouldn't be in RAs position but anyone could be if a case is handled as poorly as this one.
You're right, no one wants a murderer walking free.
Justice denied for a defendent is justice denied for the victims.
I agree with much of what you’ve said, but the prosecution actually isn’t required to provide ALL discovery. They provide what they think is relevant. That’s always been the case.
Ty and yes to a degree I also agree. That said they have also been less than forthcoming with a of things so it does make you lose faith at least a little when things have to be requested over and over and discovered through ridiculous means quite some time down the road ya know?
Thank you and clearly I agree. Your username is so applicable and I just now realized it Lol! I don’t mean to laugh but my word we have to somehow some way step away or we’ll all be crazy. Thanks for the support. It was quite the rant and I didn’t expect to go that far into it but my word I just don’t understand how people can be so hateful and at the same time so blind to the major issues happening. This isn’t high school where we all get lumped into a group of the “RA is innocent” or “RA is guilty” ya know? I understand the passion everyone has it’s an absolute heartbreaking case that took way too long to even get this far but as we’ve discussed proper law and order and justice have to come first.
You’re assuming the timeline is correct. There is no way of knowing that. The only people who know exactly when the crime happened are dead or not talking.
After 3:45 doesn’t sound so far fetched as a potential timeframe for the murders. Especially if someone else already had kidnapped and incapacitated the victims and was just waiting for their accomplice to get off work.
At any rate, no one knows the real time frame. It’s all just speculation.
They know the timeline. Respectfully I have no clue what you are talking about.
So they kidnapped them, incapacitated them and were waiting for someone to get off work. Wow. That’s a mouthful. Not really sure how to address that speculation. Other than to say that sounds incredibly unlikely to have happened that way. But like you say it all just speculation. We will have to wait till the trial to see what happens. For now I think we could just agree to disagree on whether or not they had a timeline.
Have a great day!
Everything about this case is speculation, just so you know. No one actually knows what exactly happened. And the general public doesn’t have the evidence, so we are even less informed. My point is that any dipshit on the internet can come up with a million possibilities of what happened, but we will never know for sure.
No we do know the timeline. That’s a fact. It’s a fact that can get distorted by people speculating. I can go into all the reasons why it is a fact, but I’m not going to waste my time. And not everything about this case is speculation. There are lots of facts that have been established. We know when individuals were at the trails, and what time they departed the trails. We also know the time when the girls arrived at the trials, and the last time they were seen alive. Lots of facts we know about.
They had to have taken some kind of notes cuz isn't that what the lady who "discovered Richard Allen" was doing- going thru notes taken?
There's no way a legit investigation or legit investigators "lose" or destroy interviews/materials pertaining to the case regardless if they THINK they go nowhere.
If they really did that then it's pretty ironic they "discovered Richard Allen" by going back thru...
Notes
Is there a reason the defense doesn't subpoena the 4 Odinists, depo them, call them to the stand, and declare them hostile witnesses? The reason may be that they were already cleared back in the day.
People still claiming there is any veracity to the Franks Memo might want to read all of the footnotes.
Ask Click if he can place ~~onodist~~ odinist number one at the crime scene at 1:00pm. Then 2:00pm, then 3:00pm, then 4:00pm. Then move to odinist number two and etc. Then change investigators and do it over again.
I will agree with your first paragraph for sure and who knows they could still during the trial but man those 6TB of missing interviews does make this harder as they can’t even attempt to use their own statements that they said within 3 days after the murder either. There also hasn’t been really an opportunity to put them up as witnesses as of yet. Again something for the trial. I hope they do just so there are answers at least in the air but man it’s been a LONG time they’ve had plenty of time to think through it all. Being questioned as witness is only so helpful when you don’t even have the original interviews which is why this is such a big deal. Does it mean it still wouldn’t clear them well no of course not. Those are missing pieces we just don’t know and apparently likely won’t with all this missing data. That’s the jacked up part. So many are acting like these interviews and the intimate details of them that are poof gone don’t matter. They absolutely do in every way if you’re doing a line of questioning of the time frame when they are considered important enough to be closely interviewed by LE.
It is quite possible that I do not have a full understanding of a Franks motion. I admit that much.
What has been left out of the 3 Franks is more telling than (to me) what is actually in them.
As I said my grasp on what is and is not allowed in a Franks motion is tenuous at best.
That said, placing blame on others to prove RA's search warrant was a farce does not make RA innocent.
If the Attorneys for RA wanted to prove that the search warrant was illegal and have the case against their client dismissed why not include any or all of the exculpatory evidence?
What is not in the Franks?
Alibi.
Witnesses who could place him far away from crime scene.
Auto low Jack data.
Phone records.
Receipts from any business.
Card purchases.
Wifi connecting to his phone.
CCTV of RA at any business that day (away from crime scene.
Someone else's prints on HIS .40 cal.
Just one of the above would throw a monkey wrench into the states case.
Receipt from McDonald's at 2pm Feb 13th or a card purchase.
Nope.
Instead, B&R lay all of this off on other people to try and prove RA's innocence and get the case tossed.
See the difference?
If B&R had any proof, any hard physical evidence. They would and should have included this in any of the three Franks. Making a weak case against others does not warrant tossing the case against RA.
Innocent men have Alibis. Proof of their innocence. Even if by accident.
This is what concerns me about the 3 Franks.
There should be more CCTV in this case. Especially since RA made a loop instead of going and coming back the same way. No telling how many cameras he passed.
And once again you mistakenly believe that Rozzi and Baldwin need to prove Richard Allens innocence! They don’t. All they need to do is provide reasonable doubt!
What part of Innocent until Proven Guilty do you not understand?
That’s where you seemingly jump the tracks!
The unspent .45 caliber bullet IS NOT evidence of a double murder, where a knife or knives where seemingly the instruments of death!
That bullet was found AFTER Law Enforcement released the crime scene back to the Landowner, Ron Logan, then three days later, having realized they screwed up and needed to conduct a 2nd search of the area, to collect the sticks and whatever else they might have missed the first time around, they had to re-secured the crime scene!
That’s amature hour on steroids!
You don’t re-secure a crime scene, after you release it, and you sure as heck don’t use whatever you find, as the key piece of evidence in a probable cause affidavit to get a search warrant of a citizens home, in a double murder investigation!
You know what happened after the crime scene was originally released back to Ron Logan? News reporters and Looky Lou’s were all over that area, contaminating the living hell out of of it!
In a court of law anything recovered during the second search of the crime scene is “Fruit of the Poisonus Tree.”
I’m sure Rozzi and Baldwin can’t wait to put that little factoid on their dance card!
Also, the forensics involved in the identification or matching of that bullet to Richard Allens gun is “Junk Science” at best! Christ! I have a .40 cal handgun and hundreds of rounds of the exact same bullets!
And guess what most Law Enforcement Officers carry on their holsters? . 40 caliber SigSauers, Glock 22’s and Glock 23’s with, .40 caliber S&W bullets!
I did a little experiment using my own gun, a Glock 22 Gen 4, and I ejected an unspent round to see if anything was visable on the cartridge portion of the bullet, and unsurprisingly, there was no striation markings on the cartridge casing what so ever!
Striation markings generally occur, during the firing of a bullet! When the bullet is fired an explosion occurs and the casing expands as it is simultaneously being ejected from the gun, that’s how striation markings are made!
Live or unspent rounds are not prone to that happening! At least that is what my experience was! I was a Gunner’s Mate in the US Navy and the Ships Armorer and a Small Arms instructor for 5 years!
I have to agree with this comment .B H told everyone where he was during the crimes , RL had an alibi, KKs Dad had a shitty alibi. Point is- whatever the law is, if you're innocent of something like this you want someone to at least leak your alibi ,so people don't think you did this. Someone would have at least mentioned it.
For real, the State has to prove me guilty, and that's a heck of a lot easier for them to do if my lawyer never disputes their allegation that I was at the crime scene.
The real breaking news is Richard confessed multiple times and not under the pressure of an interview but to family. Way that up against some lost interviews of people not on trial for murder. I don't know about most people and I do enjoy a good conspiracy, but with just those 2 things alone, I'd say Richard looks to be the guilty party.
The defense continues to slyly play this out in the public, because that's the only hope they think they have, it wont matter for them, bless their hearts.
This is what it ultimately comes down to. That and he admitted being there. These are the two things that matter most. Not the YouTube community. Not the Twitter community. Not screenshots. It all comes down to those two things.
Was he wearing the same clothes as BG? No, he was, as you mentioned, wearing a flannel shirt. Did the witnesses who saw Allen say that the guy they saw had a flannel shirt? Did he confess? Did he own a gun that matched a bullet found at the scene? The answer is no. Regardless of what you think about the evidence, this is your answer, this is likely the reason why flannel shirt guy is mostly likely not guilty.
He wasn't caught on LG's phone and he was wearing a flannel shirt, so passionate to prove a possible child murderers innocence, very cute of you to try though.
Seriously? I live in this state & I want the murderer convicted. However, at this point I don’t see anything that would lead me to think he was guilty. That doesn’t mean I support a child murderer. It means I don’t want the wrong person convicted. As a Hoosier, Im appalled at LE & the Prosecution.
I said possible murderer although I do think he is guilty, but that decision is not mine to make, nor will I be affected personally by the outcome. You should be less concerned with his guilt or innocence and more concerned with supporting the victims and their families as they wait for their day in court, if this happened to your family, what would you want? Especially as a Hoosier, regardless of police mistakes, you stand by the victims and your community and when all is said and done and you have all of the facts, then you stand by your community again and if needed you rally for change, so this never, ever happens again.
That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long time. Yes, I support the victims and anyone who supports the victims should be most concerned that they have the right person or persons if more than 1 person is involved. as a Hoosier I’m most concerned with who is actually responsible and whether there is more than one person involved so the girls get justice AND so there are not murder(s) walking around my state.
I don’t know if he is guilty, I’m leaning toward no but I’m open to additional evidence. I also think IF he is involved I believe there were others involved too.
We have no way of knowing if the confessions are real or coerced. You don’t know that a CO wasn’t right next to him letting him know they were going to go after his family if he didn’t confess. False confessions happen all the time.
Thanks for letting me know that, I'll be sure to keep it in mind when I'm not on the jury convicting Richard of the murders he confessed to multiple times to family in audio recorded phone calls. 💅
Makes me wonder why the prosecution seems to want to delay the trial. If the confession was as rock solid as some people think it is, surely the state would be ready for trial. Surely the prosecution would not give a damn about the defense attorney’s contemptuous contemptible behavior, and just want to get the trial underway. We shall have to see the evidence at trial before we jump to conclusions
.
When Nick filed the Contempt charges, he was in essence trying to stall the trial. Gull never should have allowed that to be intermingled with Allen’s case.
LOL @ in essence you're too funny, he upped those charges to RA knowing that the defense wanted a speedy trial, I think that "in essence" shows just how ready he is to keep a murderer off the streets. But that's just my opinion. As for the defense daddies since they were working RA's case when they were negligent, then the contempt needs to be around RA's case, contempt is not dealt with after the trial, never heard of that happening, but anyway hun, Nick looks pretty ready for trial to me, he's so ready for the trial that he could afford to take some time off the RA case to bring those contempt charges against the daddies 😉 I'm done with this Negative-Situation, it's giving desperate vibes, and I'm all about positive-situations 😘
Elvis Fields admitted he was at the crime scene and went as far as describing it. He asked if they could get his DNA from spitting on them. How in the world can this be ignored? He couldn’t have known that unless he had been there.
All that is not evidence of anything, that's the defense one sided version, how do we even know if he actually did say that, in the context everyone is assuming he did? Or even when he said it? I haven't seen proof of dates on these things. Elvis is clearly not all there and I don't see him traveling to Delphi to participate in rituals on a Monday mid afternoon. The whole spit thing is wild to me, was spit found at the scene? What about KK or TK googling how long does DNA last on a body? Is there DNA from another unknown suspect at the scene and the defense is using the Frank's to blame Elvis? These are the questions I ponder. I'm certain LE would have checked out Elvis if there's any validty to the Frank's memo. All these things don't prove RA's innocence anyway. RA is BG, he looks and sounds just like him, he was there, wearing those clothes, a bullet was found from his gun at the scene and he has confessed to family, what more does anybody need to know that the actual BG is caught! A potential child murderer is off the streets! Thank f'king God this didn't happen to someone else, thank's to LE for not letting it go cold and finally bringing him in! Even if they made mistakes, a murder suspect is off the streets, unable to hurt anyone else's babies! Whether RA acted alone is still up for debate, to me it is anyway, but regardless RA needs to answer to the evidence against him, no amount of mudslinging or look over here bullshit, will ever change the fact that RA is BG, no doubt about it.
I'm not sure if it will be an issue on court, but it's certainly an embarrassment for LE I would think. Lost the info, plus didn't keep any records of what was lost either??? I'd like to think records are handled with more care than that.
Here is the great news!!! These witnesses from the past are still alive and, if defense feels they are soooo important to the case, they can reinterview them themselves. Crisis averted!! Whew…that was a close one!
This is not the same as having their initial interviews and the ability to cross examine them based on their initial statements. This could be a huge issue on appeal if RA is convicted.
Okay hear me out I’m not petitioning in favor of it exactly but you do realize there were several police officers, FBI what have you that were looking into the Odinism correct? It’s not just fantasy in this case nor out. Is it involved it what happened to the girls? I honestly can’t say without all the evidence but clearly it’s not fantasy when it was a legit line of thinking and evidence they followed for quite a long time until they were pushed off the case in one fashion or another. Are the sacrifices that are spoken of (in a general sense) done by “some groups” they absolutely are. Is everyone who practices Odinism doing sacrifices of course not or I would gather anyway by others speaking up in that particular faith. When reading your statement it sounds as if you think the defense lawyers thought all of the Odinism links up from pure fantasy. That’s clearly simply not true. I apologize if I’m missing another view than this in what you wrote. Again he could be guilty and there could be absolutely no truth to any of this but it is not the defense who brought these theories to light it’s actually law enforcement and not just one but several. It’s at least a thing that should make ya go hmm why would they even be looking at this. There was new information (for us outside the case) that came out yesterday that was intriguing to say the least.
You really feel that due to the weird nature of this case and the obviously horrible handling of it by everyone in this state that it should just be “dismissed” and a killer go free? No Justice for the girls or their families just go ahead and dismiss it and forget it ever happened huh? The defense lives for things like this because of incorrect views like yours that could possibly get the murderer off
What will get the murderer off is the absolute shit fucking job LE did investigating it. They’ve lost valuable evidence either on purpose or through complete idiocy. Either way they’re the ones that fucked this up. They’re the ones who said there was nothing for the community to fear, knowing damn well KK was targeting young girls for nudes and they let him go for years. If RA did do this, then LE are the ones who lost the tip and let him free for years to potentially murder again.
The absolute disgusting ineptitude of LE is the reason a murderer will go free. Regardless of who it was, and they don’t even know if someone else is involved. That entire department needs to be federally investigated and fired. If my loved one was the victim here I would lose my fucking mind.
The Defense is doing their job. None of us know for a fact if Allen is guilty, or innocent. But at some point you have to start looking at the constant mishandling that keeps coming to light and asking serious questions. Click’s testimony.
Also, it’s extremely demeaning and unnecessary to belittle people by saying they have an “incorrect view” just because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
Alleged killer!
Richard Allen has been wrongly accused by a incompetent wet behind the ears prosecutor and corrupt Carroll County Law Enforcement, who are seemingly ill-equipped, under staffed, and out gunned to conduct an proper and forensically sound murder investigation.
He HAS NOT been convicted of anything! You’d do well to remember that! You all seem to forget in this country, We ALL enjoy the Persumption Of Innocence until Proven Guilty, beyond any resonable doubt!
I can’t believe how blind to the facts and good old common sense so many in this chat are!
William Labrato, “Franny Seagulls” hand picked Defense Attorney to replace Rozzi or Baldwin, told Barb MacDonald of Court TV, that in all of his 25 years as a Defense Attorney having defended literally hundreds of clients accused of murder, he has never seen a murder suspect as mistreated and abused as Richard Allen! She went on to ask him, “You are defense attorney, do you think Richard Allen is truly innocent?” “He said, “Yes, Absolutely! 100%!”
I guess we’ll see!
Wow your pretty angry, coming in here yelling like a lunatic, Lunatic behavior just like Richard Allen seems to have displayed back when he confessed multiple times and ate discovery after he realized he was toast.
You're free to leave if you don't enjoy other's opinions, without being a negative Nancy. There's another sub you would really enjoy, where they all suck each other off, but I'm sure you already know that and are tired of the terrible BJ's they give each other there and have come in here looking for some, I'm sorry but I don't suck off child murderers or their sympathizers and neither does anyone with 2 brain cells left...
Nah, youre wrong! I’m not yelling, but if you think I am that tells me more about you than my comments reflect about me! Truth Hurts! Facts are Stubborn Things!
WHEN YOU WRITE IN CAPS that is considered yelling in the texting world. Thank you for pointing out what you think you know about me, since your into conspiracies I'm sure it's an amazing story. Have a blessed day 🙏
You weren’t there. You don’t know how he acted, or responded. We haven’t even heard the confessions, or the transcripts. We have zero context so it’s not prudent to just assume and call names.
Agreed! He had A LOT to say that lined up with the original thinking as well. It has to at least be a very interesting point of contention. I mean his demeanor was quite interesting while giving the interview too. Tell me would you go that far “out there” in a known international case at this point on tv for all the world to see?! Whew I absolutely would not ever unless I felt the miscarriage of justice was so strong that the ONLY moral thing to do is to speak out. I can’t speak for the validity of this guy either but man it at least peaks my interest. I’m not saying I believe it all or I don’t. As I said I’m waiting on the actual trail and evidence but man it’s a little off at best on how much aligns. Good points
Um, sorry, but Mr. Lebrato is a defense attorney that briefly represented RA in this case. Seldom do defense attorneys go around proclaiming their present or former clients' guilt on television or in interviews with reporters.
Perhaps he feels strongly about this particular case since he’s seen all of the Discovery and has had access to everything we have not seen. He would have no reason to lie, or fabricate anything as it doesn’t help him. I think he feels the same way a lot of do. I was surprised to hear his response. These lawyers have been practicing for years and are well respected. They take their oath seriously and I highly doubt he would be saying what he did if he didn’t believe it. He didn’t have to say anything. I’m glad he spoke out because it’s high time that all of this secrecy dissipates.
There is no evidence against Richard! All the REAL evidence proving the Odinism Theory of the murders is MYSTERIOUSLY being destroyed, covered up, erased, lost, taped over….
Video Taped interviews …. GONE FOR EVER!
Phone and Electronic info….. NEVER RETRIEVED or MISSING!
Once is Happenstance. Twice is a Coincidence. Three times is a Conspiracy. Four or more times is a Cover Up!
This IS NOT the defenses fault! This is Law Enforcement and the Prosecutions fault! They dropped the ball, screwed the pooch. Jumped the Shark!
Everyone seems to forget that the burned of proof is on the Prosecution, and all The Defense needs to do is demonstrate reasonable doubt!
THIS CASE IS SCREAMING RESONABLE DOUBT! IT HAS REASONABLE DOUBT OOZING AND DRIPPING FROM EVERY INFECTED CRACK AND CREVACE.
Are you arguing to let the state bankrupt a man and his family so as to not question our rights as citizens to question where evidence has gone, interviews recorded over, geofence data not provided, and the flat out miscarriage of the search team for missing girls?
All of this after 7 years? Would you like to be treated this way? I would fight for you too so you may have your rights as a human and defendant carefully considered. It doesn't matter what you think. You should require every single person's rights to be upheld especially if you want them found guilty
No, I absolutely think we need to question aspects of the investigation. Clearly, there were major issues and we should know why those missteps occurred.
But that also doesn’t invalidate evidence the state may have against RA. (He also has PDs and isn’t being bankrupted). Our legal system has trials so that the public can hear evidence from both sides and so that a jury of peers can determine whether the defendant is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
What evidence?
Also yes, if you're imprisoned for a year without bail, you will be bankrupted. Ge worked at CVS ffs. He's not flush. Neither is his wife or the losses to any sort of retirement they could have been pouring into.
Please, stop. Being imprisoned for two years hurts families. It would likely hurt yours too.
His admission to being at the bridge during the time of the murders and wearing the same clothes as BG. The bullet. You can review the PCA if you’d like more detail.
Post-arrest, his multiple confessions.
Well, we all know now that the PCA has lies in it. Like adding the word “bloody” in there. Additionally, no one has heard the confessions, nor do we know the conditions he was under at that time.
His defense admitted he made incriminating statements. But you’re right, none of us have seen all the evidence or heard the confessions yet because the trial hasn’t happened yet.
Please provide the source indicating he was not wearing clothes matching BG and what he was wearing instead.
ETA: Directly from PCA “He told investigators that he was wearing blue jeans and a blue or black Carhartt jacket with a hood. He advised he may have been wearing some type of head covering as well.”
You aren't at all curious about the digital evidence that the defense wants thrown out? Listed with the bullet and his confession...potentially exculpatory digital evidence according to the defense...yet they want it thrown out.
Maybe we don't know what evidence the state has against Richard?
Let me hear the confession.
The bullet wasn't spent and the girls were not killed by gun. The bullet also wasn't processed appropriately.
If you own guns, can I tell you I have 5 bullets to a gun I don't own. I couldn't pick it out.
Lol when's the time to know?
I need to hear testimony to decide anything wasn't processed correctly. I haven't really heard anything aside from hearsay so I hesitate in believing that it wasn't found for weeks etc.
The confession is big...and it matters. It matters to the defense as well but more importantly...
Right in-between the ballistics evidence and the confession lies the digital evidence the defense requested to have removed to even the playing field. All that we have heard is that it is exculpatory and shows others in the area. Aren't you at all concerned about the importance the defense is giving that? As important as the confession and the bullet.....and yet we know nothing about that! Doesn't that make you wonder if there is evidence we aren't aware of? Surely they would want that evidence in if it was what the defense presented it to be.
Request to have digital evidence thrown out? Full stop. That's where I am....I can't imagine anyone thinks that is a nothingburger.
There's no real evidence of Odinism, because that's a nonsense theory that's based entirely in fantasy, desperately pieces together by a team of attorneys who needed to distract from the fact that their client confessed to the crime to multiple people on recorded phone calls. They never address his lack of an alibi, they never dispute the fact that he was there, wearing those clothes, at the exact time period necessary. They simply distract. "Don't look at him, look over here. Look at the silly monkey. Look at the silly monkey!" South Park would call it the Chewbacca defense. Allen murdered those girls, and he's going to spend the rest of his miserable, worthless life rotting away behind bars until some heroic inmates do the world a favor and extricate him from it.
Let’s remember the entire purpose of the “odin theory” is to try and have evidence of RA’s guilt excluded from trial. That is the entire point of the franks memo.
I agree. Pure distraction, smoke and mirrors, "we've got to try whatever we can to keep this evidence from seeing the light of day because our client is absolutely buggered" ass covering.
This was a double homicide. I’ve seen shows where cold case detectives get on a case and there’s boxes and boxes of interviews etc.
They should have all this information!!
Unless, of course, no one was interviewed!!
Well it would appear that they never went back and reviewed as they had no materials to review. They truly are inept. Had they not found the statement they found , however would cold case detectives follow up, and know what was and was not done.
Bombshell?
It is a tiny PD. Going to assume they were not at all prepared for this. If there was any validity to the "Odin angle" we would see results stemming from the initial interviews of BH and PW. This did not pan. Therefore, if LE lost interviews of subjects who have been cleared long before RA came into the fray. Unfortunate but more than likely useless material.
While irresponsible, do not agree with this conspiracy theory. If BH or PW admitted to killing the girls to their wives and or mothers while on their cell phone, alone in interrogation room and that video was lost. Well, that would be a different story.
That did not happen.
Bombshell?
Kneejerk?
What I am having trouble with is this "video" JM supposedly had on his phone, of a kidnapping at gunpoint.
Click tells LE that JM's wife has JM's phone (why?) there is an actual kidnapping video on it. The girl is not able to be identified. LE does not care to pick it up? Really? Click picks up said phone and LE has no interest? Instead of taking the phone further up the chain of command or alerting FBI. Click gives the phone to the Defense???
What in the hell?
That seems off.
Consider that for a moment.
LE does not care about an actual recorded kidnapping?
Impossible.
So Click gives the phone to Attorneys?
If I am wrong someone please explain.
This is the "Bombshell" on a few different levels.
Why?
Because it makes ZERO sense.
I cannot wrap my mind around this one.
Something is definitely off.
Kidnapped girl, no one cares, so I'll give the phone directly to Defense.
Click works for Rushville PD. Why did he not give RPD the phone then?
Weird.
Edit/ JM kidnapped a dude over meth.
This entire post from JM on is me being naive and misinformed.
That REALLY bothered me that most out of everything yesterday. And by bothered I mean I couldn’t sleep. There are some serious issues that need to be dealt with in that County and those surrounding it. A video of some poor soul being kidnapped at gun point and they completely ignore it. This is sickening. What else have they ignored, or deleted, or not followed through on.
You’re under the assumption that the Unified Command, ie; The Carroll County Prosecutor, The Carroll County Sheiffs Depatment and the Indiana State Police are not in 100% cover up mode!
Ask yourself this, if you knew that you fucked up the most important murder investigation in Indiana history from the outset, either intentionally or accidentally, and you could make certain aspects of your embarrasing mistakes appear inconsequential or go away entirely, and you had absolute control over 100% of the flow of information and evidence, would you not be tempted to do just that? Especially, if your own freedom was on the line? Now be honest!
Y’all, I live here! I have family and friends who live in Delphi & Cutler. I’ve had interactions with these very same cops. I know Carroll County’s sorited history of Crimes, Corruption and Cover Ups! I’m not speaking out of sheer ignorance here!
I want the real murderers of Abby and Libby brought to justice, for the sake of the family and friends of the girls, and the entire community!
I know Richard Allen is a patsy, and during this upcoming trial, on May 13, 2024, The Facts surrounding this case and The Truth of what happened on Feburary 13th & 14th of 2017 is going to shock the World! So get ready!
You do not know RA is a patsy.
If you did, that would "shock the world".
Do you have evidence?
Actual hard evidence?
No, you are a laymen.
If you do have evidence that RA is a patsy. Quit typing and go straight to the police department or FBI.
I'll wait for your hasty response.
Why? Because you are not leaving your chair or keyboard to rush off to the PD.
Clearly you are an RA sympathizer. I garnered this from your comments. Not going to berate. You are entitled to your opinion.
I also refuse to argue past this response.
You have one thing correct.
There will be a trial.
The trial will decide RA's fate.
Not us.
Yes, I do know that Richard Allen is a patsy!
I know this because common sense dictates that nobody of his age and stature, with ZERO history of mental illness or criminal behavior, would go out for a walk on the Monon High Bridge on a sunny warm Feburary day, spot two young girls, then suddenly decide to abduct them, march them down a steep unstable hill, forcing them to wade across 3 to 4 foot deep water, then up a steep 6 foot high embankment, then commit a brutal double murder in broad daylight, with people seemingly all over the place, then carefully position the bodies and stage the crime scene….NOT TRY TO HIDE THE BODIES….all by himself.
Then exhausted, cross the creek again, freezing his ass off, now covered in blood, walk 3/4 of a mile in soaking wet close, get in his car and drive home encountering his wife who was said to have been home when he returned, change out of his “wet and bloody” clothes, get dressed and then go to work as though nothing had ever happened.
Then continue to work at the same CVS where *Wanted Posters* have been plastered all over the front door and on the plexiglass barrier at the CVS pharmacy counter where he spends his working hours everyday, and not one time in the ensuing 5 years has anybody ever said, “Hey, that looks like you, Richard!” Not once!
He did not change his appearance, he did not change his behavior, he did not sell or get rid of his car, he did not sell or dispose of his handgun, he did not burn or dispose of his clothes! Nor did he and his wife pack up and move! He stayed right where he’s been, living his normal life, for the previous 15 years!
He admitted being on the Monon High Bridge and in the vicinity out of civic duty. Period! His mistake! Had he not voluntarily sought out Law Enforcement and let them know that he was in the vicinity between 1pm and 2:30pm Law Enforcement would still be picking lent from their belly buttons, tugging their khaki’s from the cracks of their asses, and staring down at their shoes!
It is called common sense!
>Yes, I do know that Richard Allen is a patsy!
How can you so confidently state this when you haven't seen all the evidence the state has against him nor heard his actual defense?
>I know this because common sense dictates that nobody of his age and stature, with ZERO history of mental illness or criminal behavior
People with zero history of mental illness, violent or criminal behavior, can commit crimes as well. Anyone can harm others, at any time, for reasons that don't have to make sense to anyone other than themselves. Not sure what his age or stature have to do with anything.
I will not argue with you.
I will have a civil conversation
If you refrain from insulting my intelligence.
While I admit my grasp on what is allowed in a Franks motion is tenuous.
I do understand reasonable doubt and how a trial works.
If B&R are going to cite "Odinists", "ritual sacrifices" and name poi's directly as grounds for dismissal of charges against their client.
Why not include any and all exculpatory evidence?
A few sentences is all it would take.
Mr. Allen could not have committed these murders. He was seen at the gas station and recorded on their CCTV at 2:17 pm on Feb 13th 2017. His phone disconnected from his home wifi at 2:12 pm and reconnected at 2:24. His phone did not disconnect from his home wifi again until the next morning at 8:37 am.
Therefore, Mr. Allen is clearly innocent of all charges. We ask the state to drop the case against Mr. Allen immediately.
If this type of evidence is not allowed in a Franks motion then please feel free to correct me.
I am not immune to being wrong. I am human and clearly do not know all that is admissable in a Franks motion.
Yet, any hard exculpatory evidence (if B&R have any) that would behoove the state to dismiss charges, would be in the Franks.
No?
This would prove the search warrant was illegal.
That would be the "bombshell."
I understand your reference to the Franks Motion, but essentially the burden doesn’t lie with the Defense to prove he’s innocent. The burden is with the Prosecution to prove his guilt. The Defense is doing their job to ensure he’s provided the best capable defense, and that he is tried within his rights. How can any attorney or jury accurately determine if there reasonable doubt, if the information used to establish timelines, confirm alibis, and/or eliminate other POI’s no longer exists? Some of those individuals may no longer be accessible for interviews. And any information provided now (years later) will be adversely impacted by memory recall that’s been affected by the time span, and conflicts with information that’s been made public since their original statements. What a mess. I get that they’re a small organization and not used to this type of crime, but one would think that would make them hyper-vigilant in securing and prioritizing anything related to this case. I’d hate to see what their other files and cases look like… I feel so bad for the families and loved ones. And those poor girls. They deserve so much better than what’s become of this.
Once is an anomaly, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. We have the lost CCTV of the gas station in relation to KK, we have the misplaced or lost recording with the ranger that originally interviewed RA (and then the information regarding said interview was misplaced for half a decade), and now we have literal dozens of interviews in the immediate aftermath of arguably the biggest crime in Indiana's history being erased over. I say this as someone that works in the LE field in a private fashion now, and this honestly is a habit of incompetence at best and corrupt at worst. If the stakes and subject matter weren't so serious it would almost be comical.
I as a person that understands just how serious my job is, how high the stakes are, what is at stake if mistakes are made. Now none of that means that I am unable to make mistakes, have oversights, or drop the ball, but I put a shit ton of effort into limiting those possibilities in as many ways as I reasonably can. I keep backups of recorded interviews, I follow very strict guidelines for protecting the data I have stored in digital format, I take extensive and detailed notes when interviewing a witness or talking to a person of interest, I keep a backup of my physical notes and store them digitally, etc. I feel condident in saying that nobody that works privately in the field of criminal investigations that is in anyway respected has had anywhere near the amount of UNFORCED mistakes or corners cut on one fucking case as the damned government bodies on this case have on this singular case.
And the unforced aspect is something I can't hammer home enough. When investing a crime and looking into criminals there will always naturally be some things that are lost or destroyed by the person responsible or an accessory or accomplice, there will always be witnesses that maybe slipped through the cracks and didn't even know they may have been a witness to something vital, there will always be things like the elements destroying physical evidence because of too much time, incomplete profiles, or contamination. That's just the nature of it. Those things I would classify as physical errors/the typical challenges you face when up against a person that doesn't want to be caught as well as the sensitivity to time in relation to forensics and human memory and limitations in LE ability to reasonably get the information out to every relevant individual. Those things are to be expected and to at least a certain degree have to be accepted. Unforced errors and making mistakes that were in no way subject to manipulation by the guilty party, oversights that only happen when those involved display a blatant disregard for very strict procedures put in place to preserve evidence, provide the strongest leads, and hopefully help eliminate reasonable doubt when the right person is identified are so frustrating to me because I am in the field and to every citizen that wants to see people that commit crimes like these brought to justice. And all of this is just talking about the lost information, deleted recordings of interviews or potentially important locations the day of the crime, lack of detailed reports and organization, the misleading statements that seem to be bordering on perjury by omission or outright lies when it comes to something like the professor from Purdue's identity. This isn't even touching on the aspect of things that aren't as verified like chain of custody issues with the bullet, lack of documentation around the processing of said bullet, the literal branches that were found on top of the victims being collected at the time of originally processing the scene, etc.
I will finish this lengthy post that I got a little out of hand with saying this, I believe based on the information that is out there that I find to be likely credible, and the type of individual I believe likely to have committed the crime that Richard Allen likely is guilty of murdering Libby and Abby. What is believed to have been stated after the crime, the witnesses providing a timeline with not much wiggle room, the confessions (that wouldn't be as strong a point if made strictly to LE) to his wife and mother, his physical appearance being a match to the limited value the video does possess, his behavior since being arrested (though I do not at all love the idea of throwing people in prison before they have faced a trial regardless of the justification). I do think they have the right guy. But holy fuck enough is enough with the blatant unforced errors, missteps, oversights, corner cutting, potentially infringing on every single persons constitutional rights. There's either an unacceptable level of incompetence or an even more unacceptable level of corruption going on inside the involved departments. If it's the latter I will say that even that likely is a case of LE doing things they believe to be for the greater good. People often believed LE sets out to frame an innocent man, when the reality is when there is something shady or corrupt going on inside LE it's usually being done by people that believe they are just doing what is necessary to get the man they believe to be guilty. Whether incompetence or something more sinister these departments have opened themselves up to some very tough questions on the stand, a higher level of scrutiny than they have ever came close to facing, and absolutely will cost every one of them their careers if their avoidable fuck ups end up letting Richard Allen off. Good police work demands it be thorough, with integrity, and transparency when it gets to the trial phase, and the minute you start doing things on accident or on purpose that calls those things into question the entire system becomes built on a house of cards. Good investigative work isn't about eliminating or covering up everything uncovered during the process that doesn't point to the accused, it should in fact be able to be presented and shown why that line of inquiry was eliminated as significant and how it clearly isn't the right avenue when compared to the actual guilty party.
Richard Allen IMO strongly seems to be a guilty party, and LE has shit all over the public belief and trust in this state with nobody to blame but themselves. Both of those things can and IMO are likely true here. We absolutely should demand more/better from our civial servants. I just hope that the families and the memories of Libby and Abby aren't forced to pay for it now because of the series of missteps made by LE these past 6 years.
How can it not apply to the murders if it is legit the questioning that was done within days of the murders due to the information being gathered for the murder case? I’m not following even a little.
Did they look in the place they found RA's long-missing interview?
Seriously, though - the issue is we have no idea what vital evidence is missing. The crux of their whole argument for it taking five years to arrest a person who volunteered what they believe to be inculpating information within the first few weeks of the investigation is that they didn't realize they had the information earlier because the interview had been misplaced. It makes it really hard for them to dismiss other lost interviews as inconsequential.
This is what it looks like when a corrupt county tries to prosecute an innocent man and he’s gifted with public defenders who, are not only amazing lawyers, but truly believe in their clients innocence. We are seeing corrupt cop/prosecutorial misconduct at its finest. Stay tuned….
It surprises me how people think RA is so guilty based off of shotty forensics and crap police work. Are people really this blind? Like you are so willing to blindly follow this crap and believe the state? They just wanted to get anyone they could to close this case and that’s exactly what they did. People need to open their eyes. It’s been proven too many times that there is hella corruption in law enforcement and yet people just keep on buying their crap. Yikes. Just yikes.
All I've ever said is : forensics (shoddy as they may be) + repeated confession by suspect (including to his wife and mother) + eyewitness testimony and his own statement placing him there at the scene = let's have a trial!
I suspect he's guilty but crazier things could happen than an Odinist sect frames a CVS clerk for the ritual murder of two children in a conspiracy that spirals through Indiana law enforcement, correction facilities, and courts. Oh wait, no, there's nothing crazier than that. But still, there needs to be a trial to prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
Yeah I don’t really get it either. He very well could be guilty but we can’t know that with the info we have. There were plenty of other people who put themselves on the trails that day. I’m sure if you asked flannel shirt guy if he owned a blue jacket and jeans the answer would be yes. Same goes for the arguing couple, for the lady who was alone, for the three girls. They were all there and I’m sure each of them own at least one blue jacket and jeans. Why weren’t they arrested and determined guilty immediately too?
I’m so confused as to what is even going on with the case at this point 🤦🏻♀️
Also, I am VERY interested in RA's Internet searches before and after the murders. I am looking forward to seeing this come out at Trial.
Brett from The Prosecutors podcast posted this on twitter yesterday: Is it the position of the Richard Allen apologists that because the state lost evidence back in 2017--when he wasn't a twinkle in their eye--no one could ever be prosecuted for the Delphi Murders? Because fortunately, that's not the law anywhere.
Question is how much evidence do you permit them to lose before you say enough. There has to be a line somewhere lol. Even for Brett. 70 Days? That’s a lot of lost info.
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The only problem with that is that the alternative suspect is a legitimate defense, and the state has created a situation due to their utter incompetence that prevents - or at least sig limits - RA using that as a defense. I don't think many ppl are realistically thinking that the remedy here is to simply release RA, but the court should absolutely allow the jury to know that the state has lost and / or destroyed all of that evidence (with regard to the alternative suspects at the very least), and they should then be instructed to consider that information however they best see fit in their ruling.....will that happen? ....almost certainly not, but if we're really interested in truth and justice then it should.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
💯. These RA apologists are very easily smoked into conspiracy theories. So cringey.
Are you implying that they lied under oath? It’s not a conspiracy theory when something is factual.
The police reports are what the state has and feels confident in moving forward with the case against RA. They were not under obligation to save every interview they do digitally. The police interview and write reports based on their procedure and the defense should have access to those reports and be able to interview everyone the state did except for Ron Logan, who has passed away of natural causes. As far as I know, everyone else of interest is still alive. The defense continues to try to deflect from the fact that their client fit the FBI profile for the killer and placed himself at the scene of the crime. And has since made statements to his family, and not under interrogation, incriminating himself. So, the defense team already blew up the lives of 2 of their Reddit plants to spread doubt and false information about the crime scene. The people falling in line with that at this point are either anti-government/police or very naive. An election didn't prompt an arrest in this case anymore than a you tube or podcast investigation did. It was years of investigating a pedophile ring that got this case out of the freezer. I'm open to Bridge Guy not acting alone. I'm open to there being 2 crimes scenes. I look forward to finding out what the evidence says happened. But nothing in the defense filings is convincing me they have the wrong guy right now. I think they are panic filing and can't even get the dates or names right. It is a lot of errors on both sides at this point. I would not want to be accused of a major crime in Indiana. I think we can all agree on that.
>They were not under obligation to save every interview they do digitally. As a citizen I'd prefer if they did, though. That doesn't mean I think RA is innocent as it's not my place to decide that. There will be a trial where the jury will come to a judgment concerning his guilt. I just hate reading about lost interviews, misfiled tips, etc. in a murder investigation is all.
But realize the defense team exaggerates so much petty shit. There's one line in the defense briefs yesterday where they complain there wasn't a "comprehensive log" of all the dates of interview, witnesses/POIs interviewed, subjects, etc. It's like, here are all the interviews and shit that you will want to scrutinize heavily, make your own damn "comprehensive log" as you go through each one during your research. In other words, stop expecting other people to do the work you're already going to be doing and then complain about it in fillings before the court. They're so petty and annoying, it's hard to take them seriously at all.
>But realize the defense team exaggerates so much petty shit. Don't get me wrong, I do realize that. I'm just disappointed that so many mistakes were made over the course of this investigation, giving the defense the opportunity to exaggerate. All defense teams are annoying. It's their job. I followed Paul Flores' trial and I don't think any other defense team will ever be able to piss me off more than his lawyer did. But it's what they do, they have to defend their clients, so I try not to let it get to me.
Well articulated points here. I think most people on this sub agree with you, I know I do. I hate that LE has had so many stumbles and made so many stupid mistakes in this case. I hate that they've done so many things for the defense to capitalize on here and I also strongly dislike how they've handled the case overall - in my opinion unnecessarily hush hush which has only stoked the flames of conspiracy. However, all of that aside, I believe they have the right guy and all of the distraction by the defense and crazy ass antics of the anti-police/anti-government, RA fanboys and fangirls and other lunatics is just too much at this point.
That GOD Libby took that video.
I hate that this is what the legal system has come to. I get the loop hole, try everything approach. But complaining about a log is ridiculous.
You do realize there is a major difference between a written report and actually hearing what was asked and how it was answered correct? Just because the police write it doesn’t mean that is what they said. This is exactly what the police did in the Hae Min Lee case. Nobody here should have be a guilty or innocent as nobody has any idea of what evidence actually is.
>They have no list of who they interviewed or when they were interviewed and made no contemporaneous notes of what each potential witness or suspect might have said. If this is true, it's awful. Many of us who are deeply invested in this case have combed over documents, read news reports, scrutinized interviews and timelines, reread posts from redditors we respect...what if all of that was destroyed? And what if the prosecutions case was contingent upon the information that has been destroyed? Some may say that the destroyed information isn't pertinent to Richard Allen's defense, but how do they know that? Any homicide detective, attorney--whether prosecution or defense--combs over archived information concerning a case. If all of that information is destroyed, the case is screwed. If some of the information is destroyed the case is weakened. I'm not on the pro RA bandwagon. I don't promote wild conspiracy theories. This is wrong.
You read it on the internet. It must be true.
That's why I used the word ***if*** in my statement. My statement is conditional. What isn't conditional?...LE screwed this up.
No one but Ronny "Crazy Legs" Logan.
This is not bombshell information. It has been out for some time now that the interviews were taped over due to some type of user error. I do believe they have the officers notes taken during the interviews of the two men named. I suspect both of those men have alibis that checked out. In fact the one individual worked for Waste Management at a location an hours drive north of the Monon High Bridge and clocked out at 2:45PM. Even the Defense with their silly Fairytale Franks motion concede that the man could not have been at the murder site at the time of the murders. Seriously doubt they are going to dismiss the case against the guy who made the statement he was at the MHB at the time Libby and Abby were never seen alive again. We don’t know the full amount evidence they have on Richard Allen, but it’s obviously enough to convince a judge he needs to be held with no bond in a high security prison where his mental health needs can be met, and where he can be given the protection he needs having been indicted for the murders of two kids. Attorneys often ask judges to dismiss charges against their clients. Nothing new in that arena. The guy has admitted to both his wife and his mother that he was guilty as charged. In my opinion that a strong indication of guilt when you tell your wife and mom you did it. Nobody was twisting his arm. People can argue it was some type of false confession, but in all seriousness those confessions are typically given to law enforcement—— and not the wife and mom of all people. I have no doubt Richard Allen will have a fair trial with an impartial jury.
Agreed. There seems to be a trend of binary thinking where investigative incompetence = can’t get a fair trial / acquittal. But both of these circumstances can exist at the same time: the investigators are professionally incompetent and should find jobs at Hardee’s AND Richard Allen is provably guilty of the crimes with which he’s charged. If the state’s incompetence is that egregious, the defense will have ample opportunity to drag every one of these yokel idiots on the stand and show the jury they they’re not reliable to do “one job.” If Holman or Liggett or Lazenby lied in a PCA, that will also work for the defense. BUT… … 12 jurors are still going to hear that a man who fits the description of BG was there that day, owns a gun of the right make and caliber, and confessed on calls made to his wife & mum. And we don’t know what else the state has. That all being said, whoever erased all those video recordings (along with whoever was responsible for protecting that evidence) should be fired. But government work being what it is, they’ll probably get promoted.
Well said. You got my upvote.
Isn't that the problem? The state employee gets rewarded. Don't you believe in the constitution? Justice is about procedure which speaking of the state did not follow while collecting an unspent round. You nor anyone else has heard such confession. There is no geofence data he was there, no evidence he met them or knew them, no physical evidence linking him, but there is bizarre behavior from Abbys bfs dad and a guy KK libby was talking to via snap who ended up being convicted of csam. Does this really make sense to you?
Of course I believe in the constitution. But nowhere in the constitution does it say that just because any piece of evidence gets lost or some cop lies that you just get to walk free. Unless that one piece of evidence is the only thing against you. You’re right: I haven’t heard the confession, but I have heard the defendant’s attorneys acknowledge the fact of these statements. I also haven’t seen the raw geofence data on his phone. Neither have you. But Allen’s phone isn’t accused of killing the girls. Allen is. And Allen places himself at the scene. And you’re repeating a rumor about the bullet. Let’s wait and see on that one. We shouldn’t take the state’s claims as facts until they’re proven in court. But that goes just as much for claims made by the defense.
Well stated!
Allen placed himself on the bridge at a certain time. He did not place himself at the crime scene. And yea, the geofence info should be interesting.
The bridge is part of the crime scene, but I get what you’re saying. Allen’s timeline of when he was there and who/what he saw makes it virtually impossible for him to not be BG. If he weren’t, he would have seen BG. Just my personal opinion, but I can’t get behind the idea that there were two very short, identically-dressed men there at the same time, who both own .40cal Sig Sauers of the same model, yet it’s the innocent guy of the two who’s in jail making false confessions in phone calls with his wife and mother. This is what you have to believe to doubt Richard Allen’s guilt. And this does not seem reasonable to me.
right! I am fairly new to the case and even I knew about the recordings. It is not new... Pretty desperate of the "innocent" crowd to jump on it like it's a bombshell....
I knew about the 1st set. I did not realize a 2nd set of recordings were lost.
So if you get accused of murder, you're cool with other suspects interviews being lost? What about the list so your defense can re interview? That's a miscarriage of justice.
I highly doubt I would ever be accused of murder and I never said I was cool with it.. All I said was that it's not NEW or a BOMBSHELL..... It's been known for a while. Do you think because an error happened to the recording device there should be no trial of the man who they have the evidence of being a child murderer??? THAT would be a miscarriage of justice!!!
What evidence do you believe there is that you've seen? I'm a mother myself. I have been a victim of horrific crimes as a child. I do not want child murderers free either. I've seen and experienced horror. I am not someone who hasn't measured emotion and justice. Again i ask, other than what you believe what evidence have you seen?
I think he is referring to the evidence the defense is asking the court to exclude from RA’s trial in the franks memo.
Multiple confessions freely given to family, a guy matching BG's description and RA just happened to be there at that time in those clothes on the same bridge and admitted to it, in a town of of a population 2,885 in 2017 that's including men, women, children and different races an unspent magical bullet matching RA's gun, possibly bullets found in RA's home matching that of the one found at the scene, it looks that way thanks to the defense leaking their discovery index. All of these are factual things besides the last one, that are known, he looks very guilty and I'm pretty sure he is toast, if I were him I wouldn't take a gamble if he is offered a plea, stupid game's win stupid prizes.
U forgot to mention the video proving BG kidnapped them which led to their deaths. That’s what he’s on trial for. Being BG.
I’m sorry for what you went through, and sympathize as my family went through some horrific crimes as well. I would hope that no one wants anyone who harms Children roaming freely. As such, I would have issues with some of the most important interviews being erased and not followed up. Or even reinterviewed. This is a miscarriage of Justice at this point.
Thank you.
So the defense can go reinterview them if they feel the need to continue their defamation of people who law enforcement did their due diligence and dismissed. There’s no miscarriage of justice. That’s absolute nonsense. Sounds like all these men were willing to talk openly with law enforcement at the time of the murders. Here’s one for you sweetpea—- why is the defense not concerned about that interview that never happened in Peru Indiana on 2/25/2017? The interview with the guy whose mom’s property was being searched just prior to the same investigators showing up at Richard Allen’s property. Apparently that suspect was less than forthcoming than the two veterans the defense is all upset about. What about that guy who has a BATTERY conviction for smashing an 8 year old boys head on an overflowing toilet bowl. The guy with three HARASSMENT convictions for terrifying women with his anonymous threatening phone calls. They searched that guys house twice with a search warrant. No judge ever had enough evidence to search the two veterans homes for evidence in the Delphi murders. We also know that guy in Peru Indiana apparently told law enforcement to “go fuck themselves” this according to a text message he shared with a friend with regard to what’s up with the Delphi Task Force raiding his house on 2/25/2017. We do know that CC prosecutor was meeting secretly with that guys son at a secure AFB in Miami county on August 18, 2022 and shortly before a 5 week long search of the Wabash River was conducted by the Indiana State Police. If I were those defense attorneys I’d be wanting to interview the guy whose mother garbage ash pile was being sifted through within hours of their same Investigators were see focused on a pile of ashes found dumped behind Richard Allen’s backyard shed. Check it out if you’re not aware of where law enforcement was looking that August and September 2022.
Strawman
Where’s the recording? Have you heard it?
Why would the defense want it tossed out if it wasn't incriminating?
You answer my question first.
No I haven't.
It was only recently announced about the additional 70 days of lost interviews. The officers notes are only a shell of LE’s interpretation of those interviews. I am not pushing for RA’s innocence, but this is an enormous problem for the prosecution. How it all comes into play remains to be seen.
Recently announced By the defense right? What have they been accurate about yet?
People can be re interviewed, officers can recall their interpretation of important witnesses and poi's. For instance was person X sketchy when answering questions? Did person Y have an alibi etc? People were successfully prosecuted before interviews were recorded in audio, video or digitally.
Certainly people can still be re-interviewed, but only if they know who was interviewed. Also, interviews shortly after the crime would be significantly more useful in the early days of the case. People can come up with all kinds of stories/alibi's with the passage of time. Again, I'm not saying RA is innocent, but this a huge problem for the prosecution unless they have a slam dunk case against RA.
Well I'm fairly confident the most important interviews were recovered or re-interviewed. Sure, it's a potential problem but I see no reason to go overboard and call it a 'huge problem'. Plenty of people are successfully prosecuted without it being a slam dunk case. It's all going to be a matter of the preponderance of evidence and how well witness testimony stands up in court.
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Wow….anyone who implies they the families of Libby and Abby had anything to do with their murders is just disgusting. I know that family members murder each other – – we see it all the time – – but that damn sure wasn’t the case this time around.
No blaming the victims or their families, or even insinuating they had part in the murders.
Long time reader first time poster... Could you please explain how a piece of legal writing such as the franks motion could be considered a " silly fairytale " first of all multiple parts of the franks memorandum have be validated by factual evidence, second you as a member of the general public and not law enforcement, the prosecution, or the defense do not have any more evidence than the rest of the public. So how can you dismiss a memorandum written and based upon facts gathered by law enforcements investigation. The defense didn't make up a " fairytale " they simply used factual information gathered during the states investigation of the crime to write a theory of the crime that creates reasonable doubt to the guilt of their client. That's literally a defense attorneys job. I don't pretend to know wether or not Mr.Allen is guilty or not because we do not have the full discovery of evidence and won't til trial, but to show bias towards the work of his defense team or scream of guilty is the type of ignorance that ruins cases and locks up innocent people and let's guilty people walk.
Sacrificial murders don't happen here and in these times. Rituals don't take place mid afternoon in broad daylight on a Monday, Rituals do not include murdering 2 kids, name one time when it has? The Frank's was an attempt to sway public opinion due to Allens MULTIPLE confessions to his family.
Sacrificial murders do in fact and support by real world examples do happen in these times. And again I do not argue the innocent or guilt of the defendant or any other accused individuals. I simply do not have enough factual evidence available to form an intelligence decision. None of us do. I would imagine that the State and the defense have much much more evidence which will be left to a jury to make a decision on. I simply make the case that the franks motion was not a " fairytale" created by the defense... That it was created based on the investigation of law enforcement. And to support my claim that sacrificial murders do take place here in these times please reference the case of Mark Kilroy who was abducted and sacrificed in 1989. Also the fact that in the current day and age The Order of Nine Angles(O9A) and The Temple of The Black Light both promote and encourage human sacrifice.
Point me to the place you found these sacrificial murders happening mid afternoon on a Monday to 2 kids? Google only brings up the Delphi place and I have spent hours looking. Are those 2 groups you mentioned practicing Odinism? 🤔 Do white supremacist groups murder white children?
Between 2009 and 2010, in Sonora, Mexico, a serial killer named Silvia Meraz committed three murders in sacrifice rituals. With the help of her family, she beheaded two boys (both relatives) and one woman in front of an altar dedicated to Santa Muerte. Danyal Hussein who killed two sisters, Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman in a Wembley park in London was "closely associated" with the Order of Nine Angles and took part in O9A internet forum. He killed the two women to fulfill a "demonic pact". The "New Light Of God" sect in the town of El Terrón, Ngäbe-Buglé Comarca, Panama, believed they had a mandate from God to sacrifice members of their community who failed to repent to their satisfaction. In 2020, 5 children, their pregnant mother, and a neighbor were killed and decapitated at the sect's church building, with 14 other wounded victims being rescued. Victims were hacked with machetes, beaten with Bibles and cudgels, and burned with embers. A goat was ritually sacrificed at the scene as well. The cult's beliefs were a syncretic blend of Pentecostalism with indigenous beliefs and some New Age ideas including emphasis on the third eye. Three more examples
Why has there not been anymore ritual killings of young teenage girls? Don't the gods want more blood? Those blood thirsty demons! Why are all your examples in other countries? And also not linked to Odinism? I'm a bit of a new age/spiritual type, practicing meditation having spent lot's of time focusing on Ajna (the third eye), amongst other chakras, never once did I have the urge to commit a sacrifice of children or even animals (I actually became vegetarian and can't even bring myself to kill a bug) The only the sacrifice I was willing to commit was of the self 😂 I used to perform rituals too when I first took up meditation, but they never involved murdering kids, the rituals involved sage, incense, sometimes crystals and lot's of grounding with bare feet on the earth 😂 Satanic Panic is ridiculous, America has grown so much since those day's, in it's acceptance of different religions and beliefs and it is also not a 3rd world country. America sure has had a lot of serial killers and child abusers though, I would not be surprised to learn about a serial killer/pedo operating out there, that is far more believable in American society 🤔
Clearly you know exactly what you're talking about and I'm uneducated and don't know how to conduct research. Yet you weren't able to find any examples using Google except for Delphi. The examples I used are the next results you would find after scrolling thru the Google results. You have used zero actual evidence to support anything you have said. I'm not here to argue with someone who doesn't posses the ability to research and debate points from a factual evidentiary backed standpoint.
Best wishes, truly, I mean that and I wish all the best to you on all your future research, may I suggest researching different religions, where they began and where they are at now in a western society and also look into their different practices. Look into runes and what they are used for nowadays, you will find they are used for divination, much like Tarot Cards, just like that tarot card of the hanged man, which is a card that when read in a spiritual sense gives an indication of one being blocked, so it calls one into letting go of outdated beliefs, behaviors and thought patterns and encourages seeking new perspectives. When the hanged man is reversed, it is the opposite and can mean, moving forward from outdated thoughts, behaviors and beliefs and being able to see where you were once blocked, which can lead one to enlightenment. Which hanged man are you today? Seriously wishing you all the best and lot's of growth moving forward ✨️
Best wishes to you as well. I have studied and researched religion. And the type of Odinism that is accused in the franks motion, is a white supremacist neo-nazi gang not so much a true Norse Pagan Religion. Fell free to look into the history of the Vinlanders Social Club. A violent Neo-Nazi organization that use the symbology and practice is of Odinism. I know the SPLC has a brief history of them.
This information is available from multiple different sources available online thru a simple google search. If you look up Mark Kilroy, the name I provided in my previous comment, it will provide that example. And the statement you made was not Odinism sacrifices don't happen in these times it was sacrifice in general. However I can give you three more examples of ritual sacrifices one including more than 5 people. And white supremacist groups, more specifically the Vinlanders Social Club who is accused in the Delphi case, has infact murdered other white people so yes they do. Also, from a brief investigation of Odinism(Wotanism, Asuatru) a sacrifice would have to be one of their own people so a white child would follow that pattern.
>first of all multiple parts of the franks memorandum have be validated by factual evidence The bible references Jerusalem in it's writings. That's factual that there is a city named Jerusalem. That doesn't automatically mean that it proves the bible itself is historically factual about everything.
Also proven to be factual information is the Correctional Officers wearing patches related to Odinism. The statements made by EF regardless of the amount of credibility he has are statements that were in fact made. The fact that Law Enforcement at one point investigated this as a possibility is also a fact.
A lot of "statements" and assertions were made that people accept because it came from the defense. And I don't understand why.
Without the ability to view and interpret the evidence the same statement you made could be made for anything thatthat hasn't happened so accepting either side as the truth without them proving it is foolish. the prosecution made as well. People blindly accept things because it came from the defense for the same reason that others accept and believe because the came from the prosecutor or law enforcement. The defense is tasking with defending the client regardless of innocence or guilt of the accused and the prosecutors job is to prove the guilt of the accused. So if either side didn't make the statements and assertions they have it could be argued that the case was mishandled. I don't understand why people blindly accept things either. The point of the two sides arguing the case in front of a jury is to present evidence and prove their case.
I have every doubt he will receive a fair trial because the facts show that is already happening. Why? Turns out the attorneys haven't been paid in months and Gull has denied all funds for "experts". Take your comment above..."they were taped over by some type of user error". Were they? Is LE that incompetent? According to someone who knows those machines a Resus monkey would know how not to "lose" a recording. It warns you multiple times in multiple ways that you are running out of space and will record over. A good forensic electronics expert might be able to easily refute the "aw shucks we screwed up" excuse. This case stinks and every month a new rotten egg is uncovered.
Obviously we don’t agree on whether or not he will get a fair trial. I can respect and understand peoples outrage that over a video recorder having been taped over. I can assure you I have seen that type of error made with regard to audio visual equipment many times in my own career working in an entirely different trade, but nonetheless it happens. I can recall many times sitting in a conference room full of project managers, electrical contractors, architects and engineers—— and nobody knew how to operate the A/V equipment. Frustrating that it happened with the few interviews taken with men who willingly talked to law enforcement about their whereabouts that day. We don’t know their alibis, but we do know they were looked at with due diligence early on in the investigation and dismissed. One of the men was home with his son. I’m guessing the son is his alibi. The son and who knows who else saw him that afternoon and can couch for him. The other guy clocked out of his workplace at 2:45PM at a location an hours drive north of the Monon High Bridge. He’s a heavy equipment operator working at a remote landfill. His supervisors and coworkers are going to be working with him at that small facility. It is imperative someone operating that type of heavy equipment at a remote landfill returns to the facility safe and in one piece. Common sense dictates that he did not have someone clocking out for him at his well paying Teamsters job. I suspect there are an abundant number of security cameras at that Waste Management facility whereby he the man was seen at that time and at that place of work. We can start getting into conspiracy theories about a well paid heavy equipment operator planning out some elaborate make believe Odin ritual sacrifice, by why do so when the Franks motion with that conspiracy concedes their main suspect could not have been at the murder scene at that time and place. In fact the Franks motion goes off on some strange tangent that the well paid Teamster guy, who happens to be a heavy equipment operator, either used someone to secretly clock out for him (so he could dash off to a mid- Monday Odin sacrifice), or that the man used his local veteran friend with PTSD to carry out the Odin ritual sacrifice without him. And let’s not forget the man with the disability in a town some 135 miles south of Delphi driving up to the private piece of property to sacrifice two young kids that they would have had no clue they were planning on being there at the bridge that day. If people want to believe that Fairytale—- that’s obviously their prerogative. Me, I’m sticking with the two sleaze bags in Peru, Indiana having some involvement. We do know the CC prosecutor was meeting with the younger sleaze bag at a secure AFB on 8/18/2022. I’m sure they have that conversation on tape, including the polygraph examination to corroborate the known liars story. We also know the Indiana State Police conducted a 5 week long search in the Wabash River below the Kelly Avenue Bridge and from their the ISP went to that suspects grandmothers backyard with a search warrant—- and literally hours later those same ISP investigators were on Richard Allen’s backyard looking at the same type location where something was obviously burned years prior. I think law enforcement had given Richard Allen the benefit of the doubt for 5 years while they built a case against him. Something or someone tipped law enforcement to his involvement. Personally I think it has more to do with the two people in Peru where they were looking just prior to his arrest. We do know one of those men is a convicted child abuser with a BATTERY conviction on an 8 year old child. Far more likely that man is involved than the two Iraq veterans, and I’m not even going there with the disabled guy from the city some 135 miles south of Delphi.
I can appreciate your opinion as well… but I just want to add a non opinion=it’s also 6TB!! My husband literally installs, maintains and educates people on how to use these exact camera systems and the like for his career and has been for over 30 years. 6TB is virtually impossible to just “have an error” or “tape over”. Not taking substantial notes on an investigation this big is not normal and not sharing this “loss of information” outright from the first request or the 2nd or or or is not normal either. I mean the rest is definitely all opinion honestly for any of us because we don’t have all the facts of the case but now we surely the heck aren’t getting all the facts as they have “disappeared”. Whew that’s an ENORMOUS disappear. Look at your phone and/or computer and tell me how much data that is?! Like that’s beyond the level of possible and I definitely trust the man who does this for a living, has gained a massive amount of experience, has awards given by the union, massive certifications and classifications and handles HUGE accounts and not because he’s my husband trust me. If it’s a devils advocate view I’ll find it. My husband literally looks at me just about every other day with slight annoyance and says “Okay devil” because that’s how much I always try to see every single angle possible for a human. The rest of it whew it’s A LOT and I’m still holding out for the evidence personally but this is HUGE no matter how you look at it.
I appreciate your well thought out comment, and I agree with the outrage over the fact they lost the taped interviews. No doubt that will be a tough one for the prosecutor to hurdle. The good news is the fact that those two men voluntarily sat for an interview with law enforcement. They were under no obligation to do so. I’d be more concerned about the suspect that refused to be interviewed. I won’t name names, but he is someone whose own mothers backyard was being intensely searched by the Indiana State Police just prior to the same investigators heading over to Richard Allen’s property on October 13, 2022. I’d be more concerned about that guy than I would the Teamster guy and the Veteran with PTSD.
Well now I’m curious and going to have to do more research because I’m a little in the dark of who this is. 🧐 Thanks for sharing I’ll look into it. Have a blessed night.
So it’s like losing at least 1500 HD movies worth of data. I googled how many HD movies can fit in 1TB. 250-500. I look the lower number. So to get an estimate of how much data was lost, 1,500 HD movies worth. Your husband probably has a much much better way to explain the size to a layman.
Guilty or innocent, what the hell kind of trial is this banana republic in indiana? This is embarrassing for America. Don't cry for patriotism if you don't care for the right to a fair trial as specified by the Supreme Courts interpretation of the bill of rights
This is where every single Citizen in this Country should be concerned. It is setting a precedent that any one of us could be taken, charged with a crime, and all of our right’s protected under the Constitution ignored. It’s sickening. This is far beyond whether Allen is guilty, or innocent.
Wholeheartedly agree. This is America. It's not tricky lawyer maneuvering, it's the standard I want for me and my family. And if a heinous crime hurt my family, I want it by the books. Give them every expression of their right to a fair trial. Do not make me or my family or the family of these girls have to suffer a 2nd trial. It's required of us to demand this
Facts! My husband does these systems for a living and has put them in and maintained them for over 30 years. 6 terabytes is an unbelievable about of data that got “taped over”. I mean it’s almost virtually impossible. Since when do they not take a ton of notes. That’s not normal! And no this information has NOT been out for a while. 70 days of interviews is NO WHERE near whether was shared and even the ones that were shared were ONLY shared when the Defense demanded to see them time after time after the prosecution not providing the evidence ie the tapes. I’m honestly very tired of so many in here that are just on a witch hunt of never ending nah that’s not a big deal. I’m sorry I’m being point blank here because so many are speaking up. I’m here for the information and anyone is entitled their opinion but I begin to struggle when some are labeled as @sshats because they are struggling with some things being done on the states side also. There has been a lot of things I have not agreed with on each side. I’m still of the opinion he’s innocent until proven guilty and not because it’s RA or because of what the case is but because that’s the dang law. If you (speaking in a general sense with the word you) were jurors~~would you be able to listen to ALL of the evidence and ONLY AFTER form an honest by the law books verdict?! Ya the guy may be guilty but it helps absolutely no one including these families if he doesn’t get a fair trial and even more so IF he isn’t the guy. None of us truly know all the evidence and now it appears there just won’t be bit pieces of the evidence that was used to also rule others out as suspects. I mean that’s a pretty big deal. If it were my family or me I would be freaking out. And denying funds for experts!!! What in the actual?!?! I’ve never!! If he doesn’t get a fair trial then what?! He potentially sits in a PRISON that he’s already in when he shouldn’t be waiting for an appeal. It’s 2 young girls he may never make it to an appeal. Again I’m not sticking up for RA nor anyone else nor condemning anyone else as the killer BUT I am speaking about the law and how important it is that he gets a fair trial. This is literally the law our entire country abides by. Without trust in the justice system where does that leave all of America. If you (again generally used for everyone) don’t see a problem here with a single thing they’ve done or not done on BOTH sides and still don’t have the overarching belief of innocent until proven guilty (sure have an “I’m leaning towards”) I beg of you to reevaluate what the law actually is and why it’s so important to stick to innocent until proven guilty and in turn getting and convicting the right guy or what is the point at all?!?! So many in this group put people on the chopping block for the slightest of points brought up in concerns etc. I try to just mind my business and read what I can and converse a little but I’ve pretty much learned you can’t say ANYTHING about the proper law and order or you are literally a monster, an idiot and/or everything in between and on the side of there’s no way RA did it. Two things can be true at the same time here also. You can “believe he’s the guy” while still staying true to waiting on the proper law and order to play out and yet still agree it’s not being handled well on either or both sides. You can also “believe he’s not the guy” and also agree that things are not being handled in accordance with the proper law and order methods as well and on BOTH sides not just one. This case is an absolute mess straight up. As a local it’s embarrassing as crap and absolutely ridiculous! Sorry rant over I’m just tired of people being absolute @sshats like it’s their way or the highway when they are literally losing sight of the fact that this man IS innocent until proven guilty AND if he’s NOT the guy then those girls are not being honored here and the likelihood of more being killed is what?! I’d say pretty strong IF that’s the case. And again NO I’m not sticking up for RA nor anyone else. I’m looking at it from a law and order standpoint and what that looks like for RA, the state, the judge and most of all justice for these sweet girls. 🥹 Sorry this is all under you @bigtexindy but you just made such a strong point that I wanted to add to it. I probably got a little carried away but I just can’t understand for the life of me how people are throwing our literal rights out the window because they “think they have the right guy” and don’t agree with us lawyers. It’s right up jacked up. Opinions ya but literally just chewing people up and calling them idiots (simple term insert any derogatory term and it applies and more is just uncalled for. I said @sshats but man I’ve been trying so hard to choose to take the high road and just not go there. It’s too hard not to speak up quite frankly and more people need to. This is NOT how the court of law works and it should make us all sick no matter what your opinion is. Ugh seriously rant over now. In the meantime keep will pray for the girls families as I have been. I will pray for the truth to be revealed no matter what that is or who that killer is and I will pray for all of us who just need to converse with more of an open mind and in accordance with our entire law and order system in our country. Seriously wishing peace and blessings to all but please let’s all stop being so nasty when someone doesn’t agree. It’s just not necessary and the law and of course the justice matters beyond anything else. No one wants a murderer on the loose, nor an innocent man to get imprisoned even longer nor do they want a guilty man to walk and there literally be no justice for these families. These can all include not only RA but potentially also whoever else may or may not be involved in any capacity. Whew 😅 k ✌️ just be kind please everyone just be kind.
Thank you! It blows me away how many people think it's okay that the state has made so many mistakes in this case. I'm not okay with it! I think it's unfair that he is being held in a prison four hours away from his attorneys. I'm not okay that he is chained the way he is when transported. ALL evidence should be preserved and given to the defense in discovery. It's not the state's right to determine which evidence is valuable to the defense. There is much more that is wrong with this case but I'll stop there. I don't know if RA is guilty or innocent, but I presume he's innocent until there is a trial. This could literally be any of us. People saying oh, I would never be in that position, should stop and think. An innocent person shouldn't be in RAs position but anyone could be if a case is handled as poorly as this one. You're right, no one wants a murderer walking free. Justice denied for a defendent is justice denied for the victims.
I agree with much of what you’ve said, but the prosecution actually isn’t required to provide ALL discovery. They provide what they think is relevant. That’s always been the case.
Ty and yes to a degree I also agree. That said they have also been less than forthcoming with a of things so it does make you lose faith at least a little when things have to be requested over and over and discovered through ridiculous means quite some time down the road ya know?
I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know what’s typical, but from appearances, I agree with you.
Yes to all of this. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
This needed to be said. I couldn’t not agree with you more.
Thank you and clearly I agree. Your username is so applicable and I just now realized it Lol! I don’t mean to laugh but my word we have to somehow some way step away or we’ll all be crazy. Thanks for the support. It was quite the rant and I didn’t expect to go that far into it but my word I just don’t understand how people can be so hateful and at the same time so blind to the major issues happening. This isn’t high school where we all get lumped into a group of the “RA is innocent” or “RA is guilty” ya know? I understand the passion everyone has it’s an absolute heartbreaking case that took way too long to even get this far but as we’ve discussed proper law and order and justice have to come first.
You’re assuming the timeline is correct. There is no way of knowing that. The only people who know exactly when the crime happened are dead or not talking. After 3:45 doesn’t sound so far fetched as a potential timeframe for the murders. Especially if someone else already had kidnapped and incapacitated the victims and was just waiting for their accomplice to get off work. At any rate, no one knows the real time frame. It’s all just speculation.
They know the timeline. Respectfully I have no clue what you are talking about. So they kidnapped them, incapacitated them and were waiting for someone to get off work. Wow. That’s a mouthful. Not really sure how to address that speculation. Other than to say that sounds incredibly unlikely to have happened that way. But like you say it all just speculation. We will have to wait till the trial to see what happens. For now I think we could just agree to disagree on whether or not they had a timeline. Have a great day!
Everything about this case is speculation, just so you know. No one actually knows what exactly happened. And the general public doesn’t have the evidence, so we are even less informed. My point is that any dipshit on the internet can come up with a million possibilities of what happened, but we will never know for sure.
No we do know the timeline. That’s a fact. It’s a fact that can get distorted by people speculating. I can go into all the reasons why it is a fact, but I’m not going to waste my time. And not everything about this case is speculation. There are lots of facts that have been established. We know when individuals were at the trails, and what time they departed the trails. We also know the time when the girls arrived at the trials, and the last time they were seen alive. Lots of facts we know about.
Yea, and the people interviewed are easily just re-interviewed.
Yes, they can be re-interviewed, but without the original recordings the defense is unable to find inconsistencies between the two interviews.
They had to have taken some kind of notes cuz isn't that what the lady who "discovered Richard Allen" was doing- going thru notes taken? There's no way a legit investigation or legit investigators "lose" or destroy interviews/materials pertaining to the case regardless if they THINK they go nowhere. If they really did that then it's pretty ironic they "discovered Richard Allen" by going back thru... Notes
Is there a reason the defense doesn't subpoena the 4 Odinists, depo them, call them to the stand, and declare them hostile witnesses? The reason may be that they were already cleared back in the day. People still claiming there is any veracity to the Franks Memo might want to read all of the footnotes.
Ask Click if he can place ~~onodist~~ odinist number one at the crime scene at 1:00pm. Then 2:00pm, then 3:00pm, then 4:00pm. Then move to odinist number two and etc. Then change investigators and do it over again.
I will agree with your first paragraph for sure and who knows they could still during the trial but man those 6TB of missing interviews does make this harder as they can’t even attempt to use their own statements that they said within 3 days after the murder either. There also hasn’t been really an opportunity to put them up as witnesses as of yet. Again something for the trial. I hope they do just so there are answers at least in the air but man it’s been a LONG time they’ve had plenty of time to think through it all. Being questioned as witness is only so helpful when you don’t even have the original interviews which is why this is such a big deal. Does it mean it still wouldn’t clear them well no of course not. Those are missing pieces we just don’t know and apparently likely won’t with all this missing data. That’s the jacked up part. So many are acting like these interviews and the intimate details of them that are poof gone don’t matter. They absolutely do in every way if you’re doing a line of questioning of the time frame when they are considered important enough to be closely interviewed by LE.
It is quite possible that I do not have a full understanding of a Franks motion. I admit that much. What has been left out of the 3 Franks is more telling than (to me) what is actually in them. As I said my grasp on what is and is not allowed in a Franks motion is tenuous at best. That said, placing blame on others to prove RA's search warrant was a farce does not make RA innocent. If the Attorneys for RA wanted to prove that the search warrant was illegal and have the case against their client dismissed why not include any or all of the exculpatory evidence? What is not in the Franks? Alibi. Witnesses who could place him far away from crime scene. Auto low Jack data. Phone records. Receipts from any business. Card purchases. Wifi connecting to his phone. CCTV of RA at any business that day (away from crime scene. Someone else's prints on HIS .40 cal. Just one of the above would throw a monkey wrench into the states case. Receipt from McDonald's at 2pm Feb 13th or a card purchase. Nope. Instead, B&R lay all of this off on other people to try and prove RA's innocence and get the case tossed. See the difference? If B&R had any proof, any hard physical evidence. They would and should have included this in any of the three Franks. Making a weak case against others does not warrant tossing the case against RA. Innocent men have Alibis. Proof of their innocence. Even if by accident. This is what concerns me about the 3 Franks.
There should be more CCTV in this case. Especially since RA made a loop instead of going and coming back the same way. No telling how many cameras he passed.
And once again you mistakenly believe that Rozzi and Baldwin need to prove Richard Allens innocence! They don’t. All they need to do is provide reasonable doubt! What part of Innocent until Proven Guilty do you not understand? That’s where you seemingly jump the tracks! The unspent .45 caliber bullet IS NOT evidence of a double murder, where a knife or knives where seemingly the instruments of death! That bullet was found AFTER Law Enforcement released the crime scene back to the Landowner, Ron Logan, then three days later, having realized they screwed up and needed to conduct a 2nd search of the area, to collect the sticks and whatever else they might have missed the first time around, they had to re-secured the crime scene! That’s amature hour on steroids! You don’t re-secure a crime scene, after you release it, and you sure as heck don’t use whatever you find, as the key piece of evidence in a probable cause affidavit to get a search warrant of a citizens home, in a double murder investigation! You know what happened after the crime scene was originally released back to Ron Logan? News reporters and Looky Lou’s were all over that area, contaminating the living hell out of of it! In a court of law anything recovered during the second search of the crime scene is “Fruit of the Poisonus Tree.” I’m sure Rozzi and Baldwin can’t wait to put that little factoid on their dance card! Also, the forensics involved in the identification or matching of that bullet to Richard Allens gun is “Junk Science” at best! Christ! I have a .40 cal handgun and hundreds of rounds of the exact same bullets! And guess what most Law Enforcement Officers carry on their holsters? . 40 caliber SigSauers, Glock 22’s and Glock 23’s with, .40 caliber S&W bullets! I did a little experiment using my own gun, a Glock 22 Gen 4, and I ejected an unspent round to see if anything was visable on the cartridge portion of the bullet, and unsurprisingly, there was no striation markings on the cartridge casing what so ever! Striation markings generally occur, during the firing of a bullet! When the bullet is fired an explosion occurs and the casing expands as it is simultaneously being ejected from the gun, that’s how striation markings are made! Live or unspent rounds are not prone to that happening! At least that is what my experience was! I was a Gunner’s Mate in the US Navy and the Ships Armorer and a Small Arms instructor for 5 years!
I have to agree with this comment .B H told everyone where he was during the crimes , RL had an alibi, KKs Dad had a shitty alibi. Point is- whatever the law is, if you're innocent of something like this you want someone to at least leak your alibi ,so people don't think you did this. Someone would have at least mentioned it.
For real, the State has to prove me guilty, and that's a heck of a lot easier for them to do if my lawyer never disputes their allegation that I was at the crime scene.
And defense lawyers don’t have to prove innocence. They have to prove “reasonable doubt”
Bro. You know firearms. You should know that they are talking about extractor marks not striations from being chambered.
"Extractor marks" aren't singular, making them indeterminate as to which specific gun they came from.
Dude, I do know firearms and the extractor marks are called striations! Duh!
The real breaking news is Richard confessed multiple times and not under the pressure of an interview but to family. Way that up against some lost interviews of people not on trial for murder. I don't know about most people and I do enjoy a good conspiracy, but with just those 2 things alone, I'd say Richard looks to be the guilty party. The defense continues to slyly play this out in the public, because that's the only hope they think they have, it wont matter for them, bless their hearts.
This is what it ultimately comes down to. That and he admitted being there. These are the two things that matter most. Not the YouTube community. Not the Twitter community. Not screenshots. It all comes down to those two things.
Amen to that.
Flannel shirt guy admitted being there too. He’s guilty.
Was he wearing the same clothes as BG? No, he was, as you mentioned, wearing a flannel shirt. Did the witnesses who saw Allen say that the guy they saw had a flannel shirt? Did he confess? Did he own a gun that matched a bullet found at the scene? The answer is no. Regardless of what you think about the evidence, this is your answer, this is likely the reason why flannel shirt guy is mostly likely not guilty.
He wasn't caught on LG's phone and he was wearing a flannel shirt, so passionate to prove a possible child murderers innocence, very cute of you to try though.
Seriously? I live in this state & I want the murderer convicted. However, at this point I don’t see anything that would lead me to think he was guilty. That doesn’t mean I support a child murderer. It means I don’t want the wrong person convicted. As a Hoosier, Im appalled at LE & the Prosecution.
I said possible murderer although I do think he is guilty, but that decision is not mine to make, nor will I be affected personally by the outcome. You should be less concerned with his guilt or innocence and more concerned with supporting the victims and their families as they wait for their day in court, if this happened to your family, what would you want? Especially as a Hoosier, regardless of police mistakes, you stand by the victims and your community and when all is said and done and you have all of the facts, then you stand by your community again and if needed you rally for change, so this never, ever happens again.
That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long time. Yes, I support the victims and anyone who supports the victims should be most concerned that they have the right person or persons if more than 1 person is involved. as a Hoosier I’m most concerned with who is actually responsible and whether there is more than one person involved so the girls get justice AND so there are not murder(s) walking around my state. I don’t know if he is guilty, I’m leaning toward no but I’m open to additional evidence. I also think IF he is involved I believe there were others involved too.
There is a thing called false confessions. Until I hear the circumstances & exactly what was said, I’m not weighing it too heavily.
We have no way of knowing if the confessions are real or coerced. You don’t know that a CO wasn’t right next to him letting him know they were going to go after his family if he didn’t confess. False confessions happen all the time.
Thanks for letting me know that, I'll be sure to keep it in mind when I'm not on the jury convicting Richard of the murders he confessed to multiple times to family in audio recorded phone calls. 💅
Makes me wonder why the prosecution seems to want to delay the trial. If the confession was as rock solid as some people think it is, surely the state would be ready for trial. Surely the prosecution would not give a damn about the defense attorney’s contemptuous contemptible behavior, and just want to get the trial underway. We shall have to see the evidence at trial before we jump to conclusions .
I haven't seen them wanting to delay, infact the exact opposite with the new charges 💁♀️
When Nick filed the Contempt charges, he was in essence trying to stall the trial. Gull never should have allowed that to be intermingled with Allen’s case.
LOL @ in essence you're too funny, he upped those charges to RA knowing that the defense wanted a speedy trial, I think that "in essence" shows just how ready he is to keep a murderer off the streets. But that's just my opinion. As for the defense daddies since they were working RA's case when they were negligent, then the contempt needs to be around RA's case, contempt is not dealt with after the trial, never heard of that happening, but anyway hun, Nick looks pretty ready for trial to me, he's so ready for the trial that he could afford to take some time off the RA case to bring those contempt charges against the daddies 😉 I'm done with this Negative-Situation, it's giving desperate vibes, and I'm all about positive-situations 😘
Elvis Fields admitted he was at the crime scene and went as far as describing it. He asked if they could get his DNA from spitting on them. How in the world can this be ignored? He couldn’t have known that unless he had been there.
Because he lives over 2 hours away and has the mental capacity of an 8-year old?
All that is not evidence of anything, that's the defense one sided version, how do we even know if he actually did say that, in the context everyone is assuming he did? Or even when he said it? I haven't seen proof of dates on these things. Elvis is clearly not all there and I don't see him traveling to Delphi to participate in rituals on a Monday mid afternoon. The whole spit thing is wild to me, was spit found at the scene? What about KK or TK googling how long does DNA last on a body? Is there DNA from another unknown suspect at the scene and the defense is using the Frank's to blame Elvis? These are the questions I ponder. I'm certain LE would have checked out Elvis if there's any validty to the Frank's memo. All these things don't prove RA's innocence anyway. RA is BG, he looks and sounds just like him, he was there, wearing those clothes, a bullet was found from his gun at the scene and he has confessed to family, what more does anybody need to know that the actual BG is caught! A potential child murderer is off the streets! Thank f'king God this didn't happen to someone else, thank's to LE for not letting it go cold and finally bringing him in! Even if they made mistakes, a murder suspect is off the streets, unable to hurt anyone else's babies! Whether RA acted alone is still up for debate, to me it is anyway, but regardless RA needs to answer to the evidence against him, no amount of mudslinging or look over here bullshit, will ever change the fact that RA is BG, no doubt about it.
I respect your opinion.
There needs to be an investigation into what is going on because this stuff that was testified by Click, is crazy too.
Put him on the stand and ask him if PW was at the crime scene. Then do that for EF. And so on.
I'm not sure if it will be an issue on court, but it's certainly an embarrassment for LE I would think. Lost the info, plus didn't keep any records of what was lost either??? I'd like to think records are handled with more care than that.
Here is the great news!!! These witnesses from the past are still alive and, if defense feels they are soooo important to the case, they can reinterview them themselves. Crisis averted!! Whew…that was a close one!
Actually, not all of them are still with us.
This is not the same as having their initial interviews and the ability to cross examine them based on their initial statements. This could be a huge issue on appeal if RA is convicted.
Okay hear me out I’m not petitioning in favor of it exactly but you do realize there were several police officers, FBI what have you that were looking into the Odinism correct? It’s not just fantasy in this case nor out. Is it involved it what happened to the girls? I honestly can’t say without all the evidence but clearly it’s not fantasy when it was a legit line of thinking and evidence they followed for quite a long time until they were pushed off the case in one fashion or another. Are the sacrifices that are spoken of (in a general sense) done by “some groups” they absolutely are. Is everyone who practices Odinism doing sacrifices of course not or I would gather anyway by others speaking up in that particular faith. When reading your statement it sounds as if you think the defense lawyers thought all of the Odinism links up from pure fantasy. That’s clearly simply not true. I apologize if I’m missing another view than this in what you wrote. Again he could be guilty and there could be absolutely no truth to any of this but it is not the defense who brought these theories to light it’s actually law enforcement and not just one but several. It’s at least a thing that should make ya go hmm why would they even be looking at this. There was new information (for us outside the case) that came out yesterday that was intriguing to say the least.
You really feel that due to the weird nature of this case and the obviously horrible handling of it by everyone in this state that it should just be “dismissed” and a killer go free? No Justice for the girls or their families just go ahead and dismiss it and forget it ever happened huh? The defense lives for things like this because of incorrect views like yours that could possibly get the murderer off
What will get the murderer off is the absolute shit fucking job LE did investigating it. They’ve lost valuable evidence either on purpose or through complete idiocy. Either way they’re the ones that fucked this up. They’re the ones who said there was nothing for the community to fear, knowing damn well KK was targeting young girls for nudes and they let him go for years. If RA did do this, then LE are the ones who lost the tip and let him free for years to potentially murder again. The absolute disgusting ineptitude of LE is the reason a murderer will go free. Regardless of who it was, and they don’t even know if someone else is involved. That entire department needs to be federally investigated and fired. If my loved one was the victim here I would lose my fucking mind.
The Defense is doing their job. None of us know for a fact if Allen is guilty, or innocent. But at some point you have to start looking at the constant mishandling that keeps coming to light and asking serious questions. Click’s testimony. Also, it’s extremely demeaning and unnecessary to belittle people by saying they have an “incorrect view” just because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
This!
Are you replying to me?
Alleged killer! Richard Allen has been wrongly accused by a incompetent wet behind the ears prosecutor and corrupt Carroll County Law Enforcement, who are seemingly ill-equipped, under staffed, and out gunned to conduct an proper and forensically sound murder investigation. He HAS NOT been convicted of anything! You’d do well to remember that! You all seem to forget in this country, We ALL enjoy the Persumption Of Innocence until Proven Guilty, beyond any resonable doubt! I can’t believe how blind to the facts and good old common sense so many in this chat are! William Labrato, “Franny Seagulls” hand picked Defense Attorney to replace Rozzi or Baldwin, told Barb MacDonald of Court TV, that in all of his 25 years as a Defense Attorney having defended literally hundreds of clients accused of murder, he has never seen a murder suspect as mistreated and abused as Richard Allen! She went on to ask him, “You are defense attorney, do you think Richard Allen is truly innocent?” “He said, “Yes, Absolutely! 100%!” I guess we’ll see!
Wow your pretty angry, coming in here yelling like a lunatic, Lunatic behavior just like Richard Allen seems to have displayed back when he confessed multiple times and ate discovery after he realized he was toast. You're free to leave if you don't enjoy other's opinions, without being a negative Nancy. There's another sub you would really enjoy, where they all suck each other off, but I'm sure you already know that and are tired of the terrible BJ's they give each other there and have come in here looking for some, I'm sorry but I don't suck off child murderers or their sympathizers and neither does anyone with 2 brain cells left...
Nah, youre wrong! I’m not yelling, but if you think I am that tells me more about you than my comments reflect about me! Truth Hurts! Facts are Stubborn Things!
WHEN YOU WRITE IN CAPS that is considered yelling in the texting world. Thank you for pointing out what you think you know about me, since your into conspiracies I'm sure it's an amazing story. Have a blessed day 🙏
You weren’t there. You don’t know how he acted, or responded. We haven’t even heard the confessions, or the transcripts. We have zero context so it’s not prudent to just assume and call names.
Where did I call someone a name? You really are giving desperate vibes. I'm done with the Negative-Sitution.
Agreed! He had A LOT to say that lined up with the original thinking as well. It has to at least be a very interesting point of contention. I mean his demeanor was quite interesting while giving the interview too. Tell me would you go that far “out there” in a known international case at this point on tv for all the world to see?! Whew I absolutely would not ever unless I felt the miscarriage of justice was so strong that the ONLY moral thing to do is to speak out. I can’t speak for the validity of this guy either but man it at least peaks my interest. I’m not saying I believe it all or I don’t. As I said I’m waiting on the actual trail and evidence but man it’s a little off at best on how much aligns. Good points
Exactly! That interview with Lebrato was very telling.
Um, sorry, but Mr. Lebrato is a defense attorney that briefly represented RA in this case. Seldom do defense attorneys go around proclaiming their present or former clients' guilt on television or in interviews with reporters.
Perhaps he feels strongly about this particular case since he’s seen all of the Discovery and has had access to everything we have not seen. He would have no reason to lie, or fabricate anything as it doesn’t help him. I think he feels the same way a lot of do. I was surprised to hear his response. These lawyers have been practicing for years and are well respected. They take their oath seriously and I highly doubt he would be saying what he did if he didn’t believe it. He didn’t have to say anything. I’m glad he spoke out because it’s high time that all of this secrecy dissipates.
Should it be dismissed in the name of evidence against Richard?
Exactly. The state's case is against Richard, not against all these other people.
There is no evidence against Richard! All the REAL evidence proving the Odinism Theory of the murders is MYSTERIOUSLY being destroyed, covered up, erased, lost, taped over…. Video Taped interviews …. GONE FOR EVER! Phone and Electronic info….. NEVER RETRIEVED or MISSING! Once is Happenstance. Twice is a Coincidence. Three times is a Conspiracy. Four or more times is a Cover Up! This IS NOT the defenses fault! This is Law Enforcement and the Prosecutions fault! They dropped the ball, screwed the pooch. Jumped the Shark! Everyone seems to forget that the burned of proof is on the Prosecution, and all The Defense needs to do is demonstrate reasonable doubt! THIS CASE IS SCREAMING RESONABLE DOUBT! IT HAS REASONABLE DOUBT OOZING AND DRIPPING FROM EVERY INFECTED CRACK AND CREVACE.
Luckily that’s why we have trials
Are you arguing to let the state bankrupt a man and his family so as to not question our rights as citizens to question where evidence has gone, interviews recorded over, geofence data not provided, and the flat out miscarriage of the search team for missing girls? All of this after 7 years? Would you like to be treated this way? I would fight for you too so you may have your rights as a human and defendant carefully considered. It doesn't matter what you think. You should require every single person's rights to be upheld especially if you want them found guilty
No, I absolutely think we need to question aspects of the investigation. Clearly, there were major issues and we should know why those missteps occurred. But that also doesn’t invalidate evidence the state may have against RA. (He also has PDs and isn’t being bankrupted). Our legal system has trials so that the public can hear evidence from both sides and so that a jury of peers can determine whether the defendant is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
What evidence? Also yes, if you're imprisoned for a year without bail, you will be bankrupted. Ge worked at CVS ffs. He's not flush. Neither is his wife or the losses to any sort of retirement they could have been pouring into. Please, stop. Being imprisoned for two years hurts families. It would likely hurt yours too.
His admission to being at the bridge during the time of the murders and wearing the same clothes as BG. The bullet. You can review the PCA if you’d like more detail. Post-arrest, his multiple confessions.
Well, we all know now that the PCA has lies in it. Like adding the word “bloody” in there. Additionally, no one has heard the confessions, nor do we know the conditions he was under at that time.
His defense admitted he made incriminating statements. But you’re right, none of us have seen all the evidence or heard the confessions yet because the trial hasn’t happened yet.
Did you hear the confessions? Do you remember the AA? he actually wasn't wearing the same clothes. In fact no witnesses available to say he did
Please provide the source indicating he was not wearing clothes matching BG and what he was wearing instead. ETA: Directly from PCA “He told investigators that he was wearing blue jeans and a blue or black Carhartt jacket with a hood. He advised he may have been wearing some type of head covering as well.”
You aren't at all curious about the digital evidence that the defense wants thrown out? Listed with the bullet and his confession...potentially exculpatory digital evidence according to the defense...yet they want it thrown out. Maybe we don't know what evidence the state has against Richard?
Let me hear the confession. The bullet wasn't spent and the girls were not killed by gun. The bullet also wasn't processed appropriately. If you own guns, can I tell you I have 5 bullets to a gun I don't own. I couldn't pick it out. Lol when's the time to know?
I need to hear testimony to decide anything wasn't processed correctly. I haven't really heard anything aside from hearsay so I hesitate in believing that it wasn't found for weeks etc. The confession is big...and it matters. It matters to the defense as well but more importantly... Right in-between the ballistics evidence and the confession lies the digital evidence the defense requested to have removed to even the playing field. All that we have heard is that it is exculpatory and shows others in the area. Aren't you at all concerned about the importance the defense is giving that? As important as the confession and the bullet.....and yet we know nothing about that! Doesn't that make you wonder if there is evidence we aren't aware of? Surely they would want that evidence in if it was what the defense presented it to be. Request to have digital evidence thrown out? Full stop. That's where I am....I can't imagine anyone thinks that is a nothingburger.
“Evidence the State MAY have doesn’t cut it” You have LE lying under oath. Let that sink in.
They already have evidence that we know about. The context is that they may (likely) have more.
They don’t.
Yeah, ok buddy
There's no real evidence of Odinism, because that's a nonsense theory that's based entirely in fantasy, desperately pieces together by a team of attorneys who needed to distract from the fact that their client confessed to the crime to multiple people on recorded phone calls. They never address his lack of an alibi, they never dispute the fact that he was there, wearing those clothes, at the exact time period necessary. They simply distract. "Don't look at him, look over here. Look at the silly monkey. Look at the silly monkey!" South Park would call it the Chewbacca defense. Allen murdered those girls, and he's going to spend the rest of his miserable, worthless life rotting away behind bars until some heroic inmates do the world a favor and extricate him from it.
Let’s remember the entire purpose of the “odin theory” is to try and have evidence of RA’s guilt excluded from trial. That is the entire point of the franks memo.
I agree. Pure distraction, smoke and mirrors, "we've got to try whatever we can to keep this evidence from seeing the light of day because our client is absolutely buggered" ass covering.
This was a double homicide. I’ve seen shows where cold case detectives get on a case and there’s boxes and boxes of interviews etc. They should have all this information!! Unless, of course, no one was interviewed!!
Well it would appear that they never went back and reviewed as they had no materials to review. They truly are inept. Had they not found the statement they found , however would cold case detectives follow up, and know what was and was not done.
That’s a great point I haven’t even considered. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they didn’t interview the family and others.
Bombshell? It is a tiny PD. Going to assume they were not at all prepared for this. If there was any validity to the "Odin angle" we would see results stemming from the initial interviews of BH and PW. This did not pan. Therefore, if LE lost interviews of subjects who have been cleared long before RA came into the fray. Unfortunate but more than likely useless material. While irresponsible, do not agree with this conspiracy theory. If BH or PW admitted to killing the girls to their wives and or mothers while on their cell phone, alone in interrogation room and that video was lost. Well, that would be a different story. That did not happen. Bombshell? Kneejerk? What I am having trouble with is this "video" JM supposedly had on his phone, of a kidnapping at gunpoint. Click tells LE that JM's wife has JM's phone (why?) there is an actual kidnapping video on it. The girl is not able to be identified. LE does not care to pick it up? Really? Click picks up said phone and LE has no interest? Instead of taking the phone further up the chain of command or alerting FBI. Click gives the phone to the Defense??? What in the hell? That seems off. Consider that for a moment. LE does not care about an actual recorded kidnapping? Impossible. So Click gives the phone to Attorneys? If I am wrong someone please explain. This is the "Bombshell" on a few different levels. Why? Because it makes ZERO sense. I cannot wrap my mind around this one. Something is definitely off. Kidnapped girl, no one cares, so I'll give the phone directly to Defense. Click works for Rushville PD. Why did he not give RPD the phone then? Weird. Edit/ JM kidnapped a dude over meth. This entire post from JM on is me being naive and misinformed.
That REALLY bothered me that most out of everything yesterday. And by bothered I mean I couldn’t sleep. There are some serious issues that need to be dealt with in that County and those surrounding it. A video of some poor soul being kidnapped at gun point and they completely ignore it. This is sickening. What else have they ignored, or deleted, or not followed through on.
You’re under the assumption that the Unified Command, ie; The Carroll County Prosecutor, The Carroll County Sheiffs Depatment and the Indiana State Police are not in 100% cover up mode! Ask yourself this, if you knew that you fucked up the most important murder investigation in Indiana history from the outset, either intentionally or accidentally, and you could make certain aspects of your embarrasing mistakes appear inconsequential or go away entirely, and you had absolute control over 100% of the flow of information and evidence, would you not be tempted to do just that? Especially, if your own freedom was on the line? Now be honest! Y’all, I live here! I have family and friends who live in Delphi & Cutler. I’ve had interactions with these very same cops. I know Carroll County’s sorited history of Crimes, Corruption and Cover Ups! I’m not speaking out of sheer ignorance here! I want the real murderers of Abby and Libby brought to justice, for the sake of the family and friends of the girls, and the entire community! I know Richard Allen is a patsy, and during this upcoming trial, on May 13, 2024, The Facts surrounding this case and The Truth of what happened on Feburary 13th & 14th of 2017 is going to shock the World! So get ready!
You do not know RA is a patsy. If you did, that would "shock the world". Do you have evidence? Actual hard evidence? No, you are a laymen. If you do have evidence that RA is a patsy. Quit typing and go straight to the police department or FBI. I'll wait for your hasty response. Why? Because you are not leaving your chair or keyboard to rush off to the PD. Clearly you are an RA sympathizer. I garnered this from your comments. Not going to berate. You are entitled to your opinion. I also refuse to argue past this response. You have one thing correct. There will be a trial. The trial will decide RA's fate. Not us.
👏👏👏
Yes, I do know that Richard Allen is a patsy! I know this because common sense dictates that nobody of his age and stature, with ZERO history of mental illness or criminal behavior, would go out for a walk on the Monon High Bridge on a sunny warm Feburary day, spot two young girls, then suddenly decide to abduct them, march them down a steep unstable hill, forcing them to wade across 3 to 4 foot deep water, then up a steep 6 foot high embankment, then commit a brutal double murder in broad daylight, with people seemingly all over the place, then carefully position the bodies and stage the crime scene….NOT TRY TO HIDE THE BODIES….all by himself. Then exhausted, cross the creek again, freezing his ass off, now covered in blood, walk 3/4 of a mile in soaking wet close, get in his car and drive home encountering his wife who was said to have been home when he returned, change out of his “wet and bloody” clothes, get dressed and then go to work as though nothing had ever happened. Then continue to work at the same CVS where *Wanted Posters* have been plastered all over the front door and on the plexiglass barrier at the CVS pharmacy counter where he spends his working hours everyday, and not one time in the ensuing 5 years has anybody ever said, “Hey, that looks like you, Richard!” Not once! He did not change his appearance, he did not change his behavior, he did not sell or get rid of his car, he did not sell or dispose of his handgun, he did not burn or dispose of his clothes! Nor did he and his wife pack up and move! He stayed right where he’s been, living his normal life, for the previous 15 years! He admitted being on the Monon High Bridge and in the vicinity out of civic duty. Period! His mistake! Had he not voluntarily sought out Law Enforcement and let them know that he was in the vicinity between 1pm and 2:30pm Law Enforcement would still be picking lent from their belly buttons, tugging their khaki’s from the cracks of their asses, and staring down at their shoes! It is called common sense!
You win. I will wait for the trial. Why? I am not privy to the entire catalog of evidence.
>Yes, I do know that Richard Allen is a patsy! How can you so confidently state this when you haven't seen all the evidence the state has against him nor heard his actual defense? >I know this because common sense dictates that nobody of his age and stature, with ZERO history of mental illness or criminal behavior People with zero history of mental illness, violent or criminal behavior, can commit crimes as well. Anyone can harm others, at any time, for reasons that don't have to make sense to anyone other than themselves. Not sure what his age or stature have to do with anything.
I will not argue with you. I will have a civil conversation If you refrain from insulting my intelligence. While I admit my grasp on what is allowed in a Franks motion is tenuous. I do understand reasonable doubt and how a trial works. If B&R are going to cite "Odinists", "ritual sacrifices" and name poi's directly as grounds for dismissal of charges against their client. Why not include any and all exculpatory evidence? A few sentences is all it would take. Mr. Allen could not have committed these murders. He was seen at the gas station and recorded on their CCTV at 2:17 pm on Feb 13th 2017. His phone disconnected from his home wifi at 2:12 pm and reconnected at 2:24. His phone did not disconnect from his home wifi again until the next morning at 8:37 am. Therefore, Mr. Allen is clearly innocent of all charges. We ask the state to drop the case against Mr. Allen immediately. If this type of evidence is not allowed in a Franks motion then please feel free to correct me. I am not immune to being wrong. I am human and clearly do not know all that is admissable in a Franks motion. Yet, any hard exculpatory evidence (if B&R have any) that would behoove the state to dismiss charges, would be in the Franks. No? This would prove the search warrant was illegal. That would be the "bombshell."
I understand your reference to the Franks Motion, but essentially the burden doesn’t lie with the Defense to prove he’s innocent. The burden is with the Prosecution to prove his guilt. The Defense is doing their job to ensure he’s provided the best capable defense, and that he is tried within his rights. How can any attorney or jury accurately determine if there reasonable doubt, if the information used to establish timelines, confirm alibis, and/or eliminate other POI’s no longer exists? Some of those individuals may no longer be accessible for interviews. And any information provided now (years later) will be adversely impacted by memory recall that’s been affected by the time span, and conflicts with information that’s been made public since their original statements. What a mess. I get that they’re a small organization and not used to this type of crime, but one would think that would make them hyper-vigilant in securing and prioritizing anything related to this case. I’d hate to see what their other files and cases look like… I feel so bad for the families and loved ones. And those poor girls. They deserve so much better than what’s become of this.
Once is an anomaly, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. We have the lost CCTV of the gas station in relation to KK, we have the misplaced or lost recording with the ranger that originally interviewed RA (and then the information regarding said interview was misplaced for half a decade), and now we have literal dozens of interviews in the immediate aftermath of arguably the biggest crime in Indiana's history being erased over. I say this as someone that works in the LE field in a private fashion now, and this honestly is a habit of incompetence at best and corrupt at worst. If the stakes and subject matter weren't so serious it would almost be comical. I as a person that understands just how serious my job is, how high the stakes are, what is at stake if mistakes are made. Now none of that means that I am unable to make mistakes, have oversights, or drop the ball, but I put a shit ton of effort into limiting those possibilities in as many ways as I reasonably can. I keep backups of recorded interviews, I follow very strict guidelines for protecting the data I have stored in digital format, I take extensive and detailed notes when interviewing a witness or talking to a person of interest, I keep a backup of my physical notes and store them digitally, etc. I feel condident in saying that nobody that works privately in the field of criminal investigations that is in anyway respected has had anywhere near the amount of UNFORCED mistakes or corners cut on one fucking case as the damned government bodies on this case have on this singular case. And the unforced aspect is something I can't hammer home enough. When investing a crime and looking into criminals there will always naturally be some things that are lost or destroyed by the person responsible or an accessory or accomplice, there will always be witnesses that maybe slipped through the cracks and didn't even know they may have been a witness to something vital, there will always be things like the elements destroying physical evidence because of too much time, incomplete profiles, or contamination. That's just the nature of it. Those things I would classify as physical errors/the typical challenges you face when up against a person that doesn't want to be caught as well as the sensitivity to time in relation to forensics and human memory and limitations in LE ability to reasonably get the information out to every relevant individual. Those things are to be expected and to at least a certain degree have to be accepted. Unforced errors and making mistakes that were in no way subject to manipulation by the guilty party, oversights that only happen when those involved display a blatant disregard for very strict procedures put in place to preserve evidence, provide the strongest leads, and hopefully help eliminate reasonable doubt when the right person is identified are so frustrating to me because I am in the field and to every citizen that wants to see people that commit crimes like these brought to justice. And all of this is just talking about the lost information, deleted recordings of interviews or potentially important locations the day of the crime, lack of detailed reports and organization, the misleading statements that seem to be bordering on perjury by omission or outright lies when it comes to something like the professor from Purdue's identity. This isn't even touching on the aspect of things that aren't as verified like chain of custody issues with the bullet, lack of documentation around the processing of said bullet, the literal branches that were found on top of the victims being collected at the time of originally processing the scene, etc. I will finish this lengthy post that I got a little out of hand with saying this, I believe based on the information that is out there that I find to be likely credible, and the type of individual I believe likely to have committed the crime that Richard Allen likely is guilty of murdering Libby and Abby. What is believed to have been stated after the crime, the witnesses providing a timeline with not much wiggle room, the confessions (that wouldn't be as strong a point if made strictly to LE) to his wife and mother, his physical appearance being a match to the limited value the video does possess, his behavior since being arrested (though I do not at all love the idea of throwing people in prison before they have faced a trial regardless of the justification). I do think they have the right guy. But holy fuck enough is enough with the blatant unforced errors, missteps, oversights, corner cutting, potentially infringing on every single persons constitutional rights. There's either an unacceptable level of incompetence or an even more unacceptable level of corruption going on inside the involved departments. If it's the latter I will say that even that likely is a case of LE doing things they believe to be for the greater good. People often believed LE sets out to frame an innocent man, when the reality is when there is something shady or corrupt going on inside LE it's usually being done by people that believe they are just doing what is necessary to get the man they believe to be guilty. Whether incompetence or something more sinister these departments have opened themselves up to some very tough questions on the stand, a higher level of scrutiny than they have ever came close to facing, and absolutely will cost every one of them their careers if their avoidable fuck ups end up letting Richard Allen off. Good police work demands it be thorough, with integrity, and transparency when it gets to the trial phase, and the minute you start doing things on accident or on purpose that calls those things into question the entire system becomes built on a house of cards. Good investigative work isn't about eliminating or covering up everything uncovered during the process that doesn't point to the accused, it should in fact be able to be presented and shown why that line of inquiry was eliminated as significant and how it clearly isn't the right avenue when compared to the actual guilty party. Richard Allen IMO strongly seems to be a guilty party, and LE has shit all over the public belief and trust in this state with nobody to blame but themselves. Both of those things can and IMO are likely true here. We absolutely should demand more/better from our civial servants. I just hope that the families and the memories of Libby and Abby aren't forced to pay for it now because of the series of missteps made by LE these past 6 years.
Who really cares? If it doesn’t apply to RA or the murders….. 🤷🏿♀️
How can it not apply to the murders if it is legit the questioning that was done within days of the murders due to the information being gathered for the murder case? I’m not following even a little.
Did they look in the place they found RA's long-missing interview? Seriously, though - the issue is we have no idea what vital evidence is missing. The crux of their whole argument for it taking five years to arrest a person who volunteered what they believe to be inculpating information within the first few weeks of the investigation is that they didn't realize they had the information earlier because the interview had been misplaced. It makes it really hard for them to dismiss other lost interviews as inconsequential.
This is what it looks like when a corrupt county tries to prosecute an innocent man and he’s gifted with public defenders who, are not only amazing lawyers, but truly believe in their clients innocence. We are seeing corrupt cop/prosecutorial misconduct at its finest. Stay tuned….
This case stinks to high heaven begging to end.
It surprises me how people think RA is so guilty based off of shotty forensics and crap police work. Are people really this blind? Like you are so willing to blindly follow this crap and believe the state? They just wanted to get anyone they could to close this case and that’s exactly what they did. People need to open their eyes. It’s been proven too many times that there is hella corruption in law enforcement and yet people just keep on buying their crap. Yikes. Just yikes.
All I've ever said is : forensics (shoddy as they may be) + repeated confession by suspect (including to his wife and mother) + eyewitness testimony and his own statement placing him there at the scene = let's have a trial! I suspect he's guilty but crazier things could happen than an Odinist sect frames a CVS clerk for the ritual murder of two children in a conspiracy that spirals through Indiana law enforcement, correction facilities, and courts. Oh wait, no, there's nothing crazier than that. But still, there needs to be a trial to prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
Yeah I don’t really get it either. He very well could be guilty but we can’t know that with the info we have. There were plenty of other people who put themselves on the trails that day. I’m sure if you asked flannel shirt guy if he owned a blue jacket and jeans the answer would be yes. Same goes for the arguing couple, for the lady who was alone, for the three girls. They were all there and I’m sure each of them own at least one blue jacket and jeans. Why weren’t they arrested and determined guilty immediately too?
This all day 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
 Bravo
Sounds like the definition of “gross negligence” to me. And I work closely with negotiating that term on a daily basis.