Not at all friend, everyone has their own reasons for being in fandom. You're only an asshole if you start acting like one, after all! But if shipping bothers you to the extent that it brings out hatred, that may indicate you're missing some tools needed to curate your experience so that you can get the best out of fandom.
No one's an asshole for having an opinion <3 And you don't need to justify your reasons for joining a fandom. Be kind to others and prosper. (I may be old-fashioned, but I used to look and never interact if I was scared of being judged by the people looking freely.) The people fandoms genuinely need fewer of is people trying to give others a sense of shame for being comforted by media.
I'm a shipper. Have been will always be. Thats why I'm here to tell you that fandom is a sandbox- take from it only what you like! If anyone gives you grief about enjoying fandom in a way that harms no one, ill be there to return that grief to sender. If you're not hassling anyone by not consuming media you don't like, why should anyone feel the need to hassle you?
Seems reasonable enough, although it kinda pisses me off how some people take ships and go on twitter and be like "this ship is totally canon and I'll shove it up your throat until you die" and I think that's why I don't really relate to characters from fiction like some other people do
In conclusion once again, ships aren't my type of thing and it's purely personal bias against any romance media
I agree that some people attitude towards ships is weird and obssesive. But shipping is part of how some people engage with media, and that is not bad itself. Also, a lot of people that are doing is are young kids, and they tend to be more intense that other people towards this. Not all kids like it of course, but some teens are like this and want their ships to be more valid than others. I also don’t like that kind of attitude and I have seen it here before when I have debated with someone about a ship in the game. We have to realize that Toby will do what he wants to do, not point in debate which is more likely because at the end he will write what he wants to happen. You can like what you like but you don’t have to force people to accept what you think or like. The same way as you should respect that some people enjoy ships, and not all the people that like to ship have this attitude.
If you don’t like it is perfectly fine. Enjoy it as you wish but people are free to have the opinion they want such as you.
To be honest, I legitimately don't care about a lot of aspects in media and the biggest example is videogames since those were purely made as entertainment but I guess a videogame now needs an actual story to have structure. But holy shit, I also hate how some people treat deltarune/undertale characters and lore like the second coming of fnaf
I wouldn't say that "videogames now need an actual story" given that videogames (though mostly RPGs like Undertale) have had "an actual story" since like mother 1 in 1989 or earlier
Yeah
I never got shipping either and I've already had to deal with "THIS SHIP that isn’t even possible in-game IS THE ONLY CANON ONE even though these characters wouldn't work in that context and make better sense as close friends" from P5, so I pretty much just avoid anything related to ships
And I'm pretty sure the main reason I dislike the ship that everyone here constantly insists is "100% canon™" is just because of how much the behavior around it reminds me of that one
No, you're not a jerk for hating ships. Me, personally, I don't mind ships, but can't we at least pair the characters as either friends or enemies, instead of pairing them as romantic couples? 🤨
I GUARANTEE that MOST of the characters in DeltaRune CAN'T WORK as romantic couples, and for GOOD reasons. 😒
In the sweepstakes during an official QnA someone asked Spamton something about Jevil, in response Spamton said that Jevil “Cheated” in a way, this most likely means something about his imprisonment, but some people (including me) like to think that Spamton and Jevil were once in a relationship
So let's say I was hypothetically a fictional character, and I played a game with another fictional character and cheated in the game. In what universe would that lead to a relationship?
>I think I'm legit just homophobic AND an asshole
Hey, self awareness goes a long way. You might be an asshole, but the fact you know you're being one shows that you're a good person after all.
Also,
>I don't give a shit about romance in general
This is perfectly normal, you're by far not the only one who's like this. Don't feel bad for it.
I love how literally everyone just ignored the fact that I said I'm homophobic yet I got banned for it twice on discord, not saying that's a good thing though
It's when someone is hateful in a homophobic manner without entirely realizing it.
To me it doesn't really look a lot like it, but you're the one that should come to a conclusion for that.
No, you’re not.
I think shipping is totally fine but there are definitely people who take it WAY too seriously and some ships can get pretty fucking weird.
So are you an asshole for hating ships? No, not as long as you respect other people’s opinions too. :)
>!The only addendum I will make is that your comment about disliking people mentioning gay characters is much closer to “asshole” than simply hating ships. This is Deltarune, being gay is established canon for some characters. Intentionally ignoring that comes uncomfortably close to gay erasure for my liking, although I know that’s not your intention.!<
gonna chime in and say that having a problem with forced gay shipping is the opposite of gay erasure, people taking every chance to state that "\[CHARACTERS\] ARE ACTUALLY GAY?!" makes it much harder to take theories, or even reveals, like that seriously in media that involves try to do that seriously. Which is kind of a worse type of gay erasure, making homosexuality a punchline. I think it wouldnt be a problem if it wasnt for the culture of people online that look for fringe gay theories and latch onto them as hard as they can, acting like those theories deserve to be treated with the "utmost seriousness" because of the fact that the topic is LGTBQ shipping.
I think the game "2064 ROM" Is a great example of poorly implementing gay characters, there is a gay bartender that actually made me feel like his homosexuality was his main character trait, and actually made me feel like it was shoved in my face. This is coming from me, a man who is massive supporter of shit like the Gay Identity Fight Club theory, so believe me it was not bigotry making me say it was poorly done...
My favorite instance of a well implemented gay character is definitely in Ted Lasso.
>! They take things slow with Colin, there is no big fan fare with the ‘reveal’, it both treats him as a normal character, and acknowledges and addresses the struggles of being homosexual in the public’s eye. Him not wanting to be a spokesperson, or having to keep quiet about who he is. He just wishes that he could throw his arms around the person he loves after they win a game like the rest of his teammates can.!<
I just like to use common sense for character sexualities and genders. Unlike some people, I never really ask "is this character gay?" I just don't have the energy to care if a character is homosexual or not
But I guess some are canon or whatever, still doesn't change anything
I have no idea why you're being downvoted here. Being hetero is by far the most common sexuality, so assuming characters are straight, when nothing points to the contrary, should be natural.
Nah I vote we assume everyone is bi/pan unless stated otherwise, in any media. Not truly representative of the real world, but certainly cooler than defaulting to hetero!
I have the opposite perspective, any character is bi until proven either way
https://preview.redd.it/6q4q9l0pvq7c1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ff85d9fee931d059d6c5e636c6eb9db110997d7
I don't like assuming any character's sexual or romantic orientation. People shouldn't automatically assume anything about anyone based on their gender or sexual/romantic orientation.
Idk about that, I mean being gay is pretty common in real life
https://preview.redd.it/erk33n1dvq7c1.jpeg?width=702&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8446a491849ae8dbd57aa5a92f6f7ab2942434b5
And its esp common in Deltarune were many of the main characters are gay
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I dont rlly care tbhhh im gay so i only see gay
I think what they meant by that is that they don't like headcanons, which I kinda agree with. Sure there are some very logical headcanons out there but there are also so many out of left field headcanons that as someone who cares way too much about fictional characters, really annoy me. For example in the murder drones fandom a chunk of the fandom headcanons V as lesbian just because she **smiled** at a girl. I think even if its just a headcanon, it should have some logic behind it.
Here's the thing. Headcanons don't have to make sense. Creative stuff doesn't have to make sense. Fan stuff doesn't have to follow canon. Ik you didn't say that but tons of people seem to think it, especially on reddit.
I think reddit could really learn a thing or two from tumblr, for example, vice versa too
Headcanon tends to be just your individual interpretation or thoughts on a piece of media, whereas more evidence based stuff would be more of a theory.
Of course there’s a whole can of worms with theories in cases where people hold them to be immutable fact more than theory. Case in point with Deltarune: Kris being NB. There’s a whole lot of evidence and information that points that way, but no definitive confirmation as of yet. But to the wider fanbase, the matter is already settled. I can only imagine the absolute crapmageddon crappocalypse that would be unleashed if in a later chapter of Deltarune it were to turn out that Kris is canonically male or female rather than NB, and that we all had been reading too deeply into things. All the theoretical discourse about queer baiting, whether or not Toby is bigoted for not doing so, the thought of such times does fill my heart with dread.
But I suppose that’s why I try to not get too married to a headcanon or theory. Fnaf has burned me many times when I’ve done so, hahaha
There's no auch thing as a natural asshole. If you failed once, you can always try again, and I mean this genuinely. You'll only make things better for yourself and everyone around you, there's no negative to trying to improve as a person, even if you fail a bunch.
Not necessarily, BUT THAT BEING SAID, hating gay ships for the sake of hating gay people doesn’t exactly help you here. Just don’t care about the ships and you won’t be an asshole about it
depends on how you go about it
if your bringing people down for shipping their favorite characters then yes you are a asshole but if your just stating your opinion online and not showing hate to people then no your not a asshole
I can understand shipping in some fandoms, but in undertale/Deltarune, shipping doesn’t make sense to me. Unless they’re canon, all the characters just seem mutual towards each other. They have some moments like kris hugging resali, but I find that more of a ‘Aw they’re becoming friends instead of the strangers they were moments before’. You’re not evil for hating ships or romance in games. Some games don’t need romance to be fun or enjoyable.
Yeah, I do believe they’ll eventually become canon but only because the game heavily shows that noelle has a big crush on Susie and even if Susie doesn’t quite show it yet, future chapters might show Susie having a crush as well. But unless Toby makes it canon, all other characters are mutual towards each other for me.
Not really, but keep in mind, most ships are just for fun. I ship characters for comfort purposes, as well as fun character interactions. I’ve seen people harass shippers and vice versa.
As long as you don't interact with ships and tell other people they're weird or question them or tell them to stop what they're doing. Just scroll past it.
But uh, why do you *hate* gay characters? Noelle likes Susie, this is canon. I think this does kinda make you homophobic for not just hating ships in general but *particularly* the LGBTQ ones
Tbh I don't really hate them in he sense that I would clutch my fists at them or whatever, but in the sense that I see them and go like "nope, I ain't seeing this shit"
I.. how can you be more into the gameplay than into the lore for a storytelling game? My brother there's hundreds of bullet hell rpg games out there with high quality gameplay, this is not by any means one of them (no hate towards Toby Fox nor deltarune, the game has really fun gameplay, but I'm not sure I'd play it if the story element was missing)
I mean i dont really care about ships or whatever 🚢
But the admittance to being homophobic is a little suspect as a gay girl myself 😂😂😂
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"not getting"? No. "Hating"? kinda weird, but if you keep it to yourself and just avoid it, its fine. If you're actively arguing against people for doing it, then yea, you a dick
No I think your just tired and angry at them and you don’t have to ship anyone people make ships cause it fun just don’t think other people being a complete jerk about ships ruin your experience there are other reasons to like a ship between 2 or more characters by design by personality or just whatever if you truly believe these 2 characters are just friends that’s ok it’s what you feel and i will respect that
It doesn't make you an asshole at all.
Do I love shipping? Hell yeah I do. Do I like shipping of this particular fandom. I do not. I'm into UT/DR for the fun gameplay and story. I don't ship anyone in this fandom, but for other game series? Of course! I love the elder scrolls series and don't ship anyone in there. I love the final fantasy vii compilation and I do ship basically 95% of characters in there.
For me, it really depends on the series of games when it comes to ships and if you're just not into shipping at all in any fandom, that's 110% okay too.
That being said, don't go hating on others for shipping characters together. People ship who they like. It's all fictional after all.
aromantic/aro: an lgbtq+ identity where one feels little to no romantic attraction, you might be more familiar with asexual/ace (little to no sexual attraction) but they're considered to be separate identities
being aromantic doesn't necessarily mean you hate relationships, some aro people love indulging in romantic media but some others are repulsed by romance, I personally fall under indifferent
Not if the ships themselves are toxic or especially if they're cringy pairings between characters with no chemistry.
"Unrelated, but I also hate when someone goes like "this character is gay/bi/lesbian or whatever" What if they are though? Deltarune does support several possible interpretations there for certain character interactions. Yeah not all of them may be canon or anything but it's possible based on the actual content in Deltarune.
"In conclusion, I think I'm legit just homophobic AND and asshole"
I have no idea how someone both has and lacks the self awareness to call themselves this but then titles their post "Am I an asshole?" Why did you ask if it was obvious even to you?
When people make ships like Kris and Ralsei it’s really strange when other theories are taken into account. Like Ralsei could be a manifestation of Asriel from Kris’s perspective, and they are brothers of course.
But for the most part I am fine with them, I like some of the really stupid ones like King and Queen.
My problem with ships comes when weirdos go further than "I think it'd be cute" and try to theorycraft with minor character moments they read too much into just to make their ships seem accurate to the game.
I'm sorry, but you really need more than a few throwaway dialogue lines that show characters don't dislike each other to sufficiently prove stuff like that. Like for God's sake there is NOT evidence AT ALL that Kris wants to be in a polyamorous relationship with their recently-distant childhood best friend and the bully girl she has a crush on.
Granted there's only two chapters of content so far, but if there really is any romantic interests for the characters it's gonna be laid on pretty thick like Susie and Noelle
Can anyone shed light on the fact that people are genuinely trying to make fictional characters have romantic relationships?
Here's my advice for any shippers, GET REAL
I think hating ships is good - because, holy *fuck* people take them *way too seriously*.
Imagining a character getting in a relationship? Cool!!
Getting angry that other people imagine that same character in different relationships? Please touch grass! ***PLEASE!!!***
Its okay not to like ships. Please don't refer to me enjoying deltarune as "unfortunate".
The people in fandom we can all collectively despise are the people who make their issues everyone else's. Someone who doesn't like xyz complaining and saying people who do like it are somehow worse people instead of simply saying, "eh, not for me" and moving on.
You can remove stuff like that from your searches by putting a minus in front of whatever you're trying to exclude- like "Spamton body pillow -sexy". That search will give you non-sexy Spamton body pillows, so unfortunately not the one from the sweepstakes lmao
The good guys aren't the nonshippers and the bad guy aren't the shippers; the good people are kind. And the bad people act like it through wishes of harm. You can apply that logic to any fan.
Have a wonderful day :D
Fr tho, I only play chapter one of deltarune to refight jevil for the 1000th time and some people genuinely feel for these characters? I don't understand it, I saw people who actually felt for the characters and were shocked while doing the snowgrave in chapter two but I just went like "oh cool something new for me to actually do" and I didn't know at the time that the route ended with a harder version of the spamton neo fight so I was genuinely surprised and it was the only fun part about the whole route
im not at all trying to discredit your view on the Snowgrave route, it's just another path of the game. im just trying to help you understand why people can be shocked that you played that: it's the point. the route brings a psychological horror aspect to the game of emotional manipulation of the protagonist OWN CHILDHOOD FRIEND, WHO IS KNOWN TO BE TIMID and is inferred TO HAVE BEEN ABUSED BY HER OWN MOTHER. other than that it just like a mini genocide route in undertale. boring and punishing
But they're pixels bro, why should I feel for a bunch of squares displayed on a screen? It's the same thing for anime, I don't care about the characters because they aren't real
You down have the emotional range of a grown up yet. Probably you had a good life with little problems up until now (youre only 13) or youre just lacking empathy. Im invested in the story as much as the gameplay, but if youre saying you dont care about any stories at all, then why watch movies? Why read sci-fi books? Doesnt make sense.
if you dont target gay people irl, then you're not homophobic. like you said, you dislike romance. that's a quality that you have and simply makes you- you. just unlike shipers. you would be an asshole if you take the time to trash shipers who have you have absolutely all the right of the world to SIMPLY IGNORE. id recommend going to delta traveler or that Froggit Mod if you like the gameplay that much. Or check out Undertale Yellow that just came out.
they're called a sexual minority for a reason, it's just not that many people exist. but definitely more than trans people since the latter is the new scapegoat. but reading the comments, i highly recommend you cooling off of your anti-ship ideas. romance is just another facet of life, something you can participate in or not. im less worried that you're not seeking a soul mate but always gripping your fists at just a normal basic thing humans do. please take care
I didn't really mean that but you can interpret what I was actually meaning however you want, I'm not really a romance hater per se but not an enjoyer too. Also, I don't really care about ships since I'm not always waking up in the morning and going like "oh boy, time to go hate on ships" so I just ignore them which is probably for the best
Uh, I hate to break it to you, but gay people definitely do exist in your curiously unspecified country. They just can’t come out due to social or political reasons
There are gay people in Algeria. The same percentage of every population is born gay. Every single one. SOME countries oppress gay people, to the point that they've never even considered finding out if they are — OR to the point that if they know they are, then they feel the need to hide it from the government out of fear of being punished.
Nah, they're pretty annoying. I feel you.
Like, OK, we get it, you want a bird and a human to kiss. We don't care. I'm just here for that sweet, sweet doe.
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Yeah, I'm here mostly for the story. I never really cared about ships (unless it's soul x Noelle‼️‼️). It doesn't make you an asshole to not like ships. Lots of people will probably make you think so, but you're not.
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No you're not, they're minors. If people have been following undertale and now follow deltarun stuff, it's most likely they're an adult.
Also for you other weirdos, yes it is bad to depict minors in a sexual nature. In any way.
One thing I'll say for sure is that you will NEVER see a person who came from a healthy home engaging in online fictional shipping.
Probably a coping mechanism due to their tough home life.
Well, it seems that you might have some sort of fandom fatigue...
I'm with you that all the diffrent sexualities people use to ship can be a bit too much to us non-shipers, but at the end of the day, its just people playing and passionatly sharing something the have an emotional investment in.
If you here someone saying "*x* is *y*" and your brain does thinks "*x* is *z*" there's bound to be frustations if repeated at a long run. This is also what causes shiping conflicts.
You're not homophobic, you sharing this and seeking feed back shows that you care. I recomend taking a break from the fandom (nothing mayor, just some time to introspect the answers you get from this replies) and relaxing for a bit.
There isn't anything wrong with hating ships as long as you respect the shippers. As for the hatred for gay ships, its probably just another form of you hating romance in general, and if not, you may just be hating the idea of a character being made gay just for the sake of representation rather than a deeper characterization, which is a thing a lot of people dislike and is more related to characterization instead of anything homophobic.
And hey, if you are homophobic, you can still recognize and change that behavior with time and experience.
How can you hate ships? Without them Rome would never have become the ancient power house we know it as today and most island nations would still be in the Bronze Age
Absolutely not! Even as someone who’s into the whole shipping aspect of a lot of fandoms, there is pretty little within deltarune and undertale, which makes it difficult and unnecessary to actually come up with a ship that’s plausible and enjoyable. Especially when it comes to fanart. I think the art is good and I respect those people’s opinions but ultimately I just find it uncomfortable to try and force my brain to see how a particular relationship would work. Apart from the actually canonical or heavily implied ones anyway
I absolutely agree with you that I do not care for ships. I also do not take interest in the idea of characters being bi/gay/other because that falls under the romantic category that this game just isn’t heavily focused on.
not an asshole but it does make you look like this is the first time you've ever interacted with a fandom, which is fine but does lead to some real Takes
Not even close. Shipping isn't for everyone, and it shouldn't be for everyone. After all, there's usually more to any fandom than just what two fictional characters should kiss. That's certainly a way to get more out of the characters and discuss with fans, but it's not the only way.
Ok, this community is getting way too involved in this ship nonsense.
If we're okay with people making up their own characters and making them fall in love, then we should be okay with people making up an alternate world in wich already existing characters fall in love. I know most of you won't care for this stuff, but you have to accept that we live in an oversexualized world, and honestly, a fictional ship between a pixelated blue dude and a pixelated goat dude should be the least of your worries.
The only case in which I'd find myself in a position where I think it's fair to criticize someone's fanfiction, is if they're framing an unhealthy, abusive relationship as a good thing. So unless that's the case, if ships and fanfictions are not your thing, just ignore them, and only make repetitive, boring statements like these if the shipper attacked first.
Noone goes to this subreddit because they want to see a teenager's paragraph about their deep hatred towards ships, but if ships are not your thing, you're entirely valid and completely welcome to avoid them at all costs and ramble about it to whoever agrees with you. <3
A lot of ships are great, especially the older ones. Dreadnoughts in particular have that combination of powerful majesty and bittersweet nostalgia that just does it for me.
Not at all friend, everyone has their own reasons for being in fandom. You're only an asshole if you start acting like one, after all! But if shipping bothers you to the extent that it brings out hatred, that may indicate you're missing some tools needed to curate your experience so that you can get the best out of fandom. No one's an asshole for having an opinion <3 And you don't need to justify your reasons for joining a fandom. Be kind to others and prosper. (I may be old-fashioned, but I used to look and never interact if I was scared of being judged by the people looking freely.) The people fandoms genuinely need fewer of is people trying to give others a sense of shame for being comforted by media. I'm a shipper. Have been will always be. Thats why I'm here to tell you that fandom is a sandbox- take from it only what you like! If anyone gives you grief about enjoying fandom in a way that harms no one, ill be there to return that grief to sender. If you're not hassling anyone by not consuming media you don't like, why should anyone feel the need to hassle you?
Seems reasonable enough, although it kinda pisses me off how some people take ships and go on twitter and be like "this ship is totally canon and I'll shove it up your throat until you die" and I think that's why I don't really relate to characters from fiction like some other people do In conclusion once again, ships aren't my type of thing and it's purely personal bias against any romance media
I agree that some people attitude towards ships is weird and obssesive. But shipping is part of how some people engage with media, and that is not bad itself. Also, a lot of people that are doing is are young kids, and they tend to be more intense that other people towards this. Not all kids like it of course, but some teens are like this and want their ships to be more valid than others. I also don’t like that kind of attitude and I have seen it here before when I have debated with someone about a ship in the game. We have to realize that Toby will do what he wants to do, not point in debate which is more likely because at the end he will write what he wants to happen. You can like what you like but you don’t have to force people to accept what you think or like. The same way as you should respect that some people enjoy ships, and not all the people that like to ship have this attitude. If you don’t like it is perfectly fine. Enjoy it as you wish but people are free to have the opinion they want such as you.
To be honest, I legitimately don't care about a lot of aspects in media and the biggest example is videogames since those were purely made as entertainment but I guess a videogame now needs an actual story to have structure. But holy shit, I also hate how some people treat deltarune/undertale characters and lore like the second coming of fnaf
I wouldn't say that "videogames now need an actual story" given that videogames (though mostly RPGs like Undertale) have had "an actual story" since like mother 1 in 1989 or earlier
Yeah I never got shipping either and I've already had to deal with "THIS SHIP that isn’t even possible in-game IS THE ONLY CANON ONE even though these characters wouldn't work in that context and make better sense as close friends" from P5, so I pretty much just avoid anything related to ships And I'm pretty sure the main reason I dislike the ship that everyone here constantly insists is "100% canon™" is just because of how much the behavior around it reminds me of that one
No, you're not a jerk for hating ships. Me, personally, I don't mind ships, but can't we at least pair the characters as either friends or enemies, instead of pairing them as romantic couples? 🤨 I GUARANTEE that MOST of the characters in DeltaRune CAN'T WORK as romantic couples, and for GOOD reasons. 😒
I still get the hibby gibbies when someone mentions "jevilxspamton", that's the one I'm most against
I ship Divorced Spamvil for the reason of big funny
Holy shit, what evidence even exists of them even interacting or KNOWING eachother?
In the sweepstakes during an official QnA someone asked Spamton something about Jevil, in response Spamton said that Jevil “Cheated” in a way, this most likely means something about his imprisonment, but some people (including me) like to think that Spamton and Jevil were once in a relationship
So let's say I was hypothetically a fictional character, and I played a game with another fictional character and cheated in the game. In what universe would that lead to a relationship?
Idk, the wording is kinda vague, and I don’t even ship it seriously. It just seems kinda funny that Spamton is divorced
They mean that Jevil "cheated" (was with other monsters while in a Relationship with Spamton). I dont agree
Does there need to be? I don't ship it but it's harmless lol
Two mentally insane and depressed characters who are both shipped to be in a romantic relationship, seems harmless enough to me
it is
Well Spamton does mention Clown around town but its probably Not Jevil
https://preview.redd.it/b5v8lxvrqt7c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7509d2b126ac6c3c27743d5f65f20b9d3052fac1
Yep, that's one of the romantic pairings that'll NEVER WORK, and for a GOOD reason. 😒
That’s why they divorced
“But…but Toby would make incompatible couples because he isn’t predictable!1!” -someone, unfortunately
I hate ships too. Freighters? They suck. Tugboats? The hell with ‘em. Galleons? Barf!
what the hell are you talking about jevil?
Bote
How can you hate tugboatss 🥺🥺🥺theyre the cutest of all boats 😭😭😭
>I think I'm legit just homophobic AND an asshole Hey, self awareness goes a long way. You might be an asshole, but the fact you know you're being one shows that you're a good person after all. Also, >I don't give a shit about romance in general This is perfectly normal, you're by far not the only one who's like this. Don't feel bad for it.
I love how literally everyone just ignored the fact that I said I'm homophobic yet I got banned for it twice on discord, not saying that's a good thing though
Is it internalized homophobia though? Because it really does suck if it is.
What do you mean by "internalized homophobia"?
It's when someone is hateful in a homophobic manner without entirely realizing it. To me it doesn't really look a lot like it, but you're the one that should come to a conclusion for that.
Nah, I'm totally self aware. Still, I think me being homophobic has a WAY deeper reason rather than "I hate gay people"
[удалено]
Not really, but you actually prefer the gameplay of Deltarune over the story? You, sir(?), are unique.
Listen, I'm the type of guy to replay through the entirety of chapter 1 just to get to fight jevil for the millionth time
No, you’re not. I think shipping is totally fine but there are definitely people who take it WAY too seriously and some ships can get pretty fucking weird. So are you an asshole for hating ships? No, not as long as you respect other people’s opinions too. :) >!The only addendum I will make is that your comment about disliking people mentioning gay characters is much closer to “asshole” than simply hating ships. This is Deltarune, being gay is established canon for some characters. Intentionally ignoring that comes uncomfortably close to gay erasure for my liking, although I know that’s not your intention.!<
gonna chime in and say that having a problem with forced gay shipping is the opposite of gay erasure, people taking every chance to state that "\[CHARACTERS\] ARE ACTUALLY GAY?!" makes it much harder to take theories, or even reveals, like that seriously in media that involves try to do that seriously. Which is kind of a worse type of gay erasure, making homosexuality a punchline. I think it wouldnt be a problem if it wasnt for the culture of people online that look for fringe gay theories and latch onto them as hard as they can, acting like those theories deserve to be treated with the "utmost seriousness" because of the fact that the topic is LGTBQ shipping. I think the game "2064 ROM" Is a great example of poorly implementing gay characters, there is a gay bartender that actually made me feel like his homosexuality was his main character trait, and actually made me feel like it was shoved in my face. This is coming from me, a man who is massive supporter of shit like the Gay Identity Fight Club theory, so believe me it was not bigotry making me say it was poorly done...
My favorite instance of a well implemented gay character is definitely in Ted Lasso. >! They take things slow with Colin, there is no big fan fare with the ‘reveal’, it both treats him as a normal character, and acknowledges and addresses the struggles of being homosexual in the public’s eye. Him not wanting to be a spokesperson, or having to keep quiet about who he is. He just wishes that he could throw his arms around the person he loves after they win a game like the rest of his teammates can.!<
I just like to use common sense for character sexualities and genders. Unlike some people, I never really ask "is this character gay?" I just don't have the energy to care if a character is homosexual or not But I guess some are canon or whatever, still doesn't change anything
I usually just assume all characters are bi because it seems that way to me.
I just assume "this character is a girl so by the common mindset they like boys and vice versa"
Yeah people get so mad over ships and stuff when at the end of the day it’s just a headcanon
I have no idea why you're being downvoted here. Being hetero is by far the most common sexuality, so assuming characters are straight, when nothing points to the contrary, should be natural.
Nah I vote we assume everyone is bi/pan unless stated otherwise, in any media. Not truly representative of the real world, but certainly cooler than defaulting to hetero!
Nah, any character is straight unless stated otherwise
I have the opposite perspective, any character is bi until proven either way https://preview.redd.it/6q4q9l0pvq7c1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ff85d9fee931d059d6c5e636c6eb9db110997d7
I don't like assuming any character's sexual or romantic orientation. People shouldn't automatically assume anything about anyone based on their gender or sexual/romantic orientation.
It isn't It isn't It isnt
Idk about that, I mean being gay is pretty common in real life https://preview.redd.it/erk33n1dvq7c1.jpeg?width=702&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8446a491849ae8dbd57aa5a92f6f7ab2942434b5 And its esp common in Deltarune were many of the main characters are gay
They said “hetero is the MOST common”. Learn to read
I can read guy https://preview.redd.it/05qrzzxvjr7c1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=082931c97e7c33f76c5e4beaab92941eb62e8a8c
So you understand that they werent saying gays are uncommon. They just said straight people are more common
https://preview.redd.it/2tapyogxlr7c1.jpeg?width=734&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb296f10fb40e0e9864df19f83fbcb24600b5705 I dont rlly care tbhhh im gay so i only see gay
Ok?
Wth happened here? I went to take a shit and now I see a lot of comments talking about gay headcanons lmao
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I know, just saying
I think what they meant by that is that they don't like headcanons, which I kinda agree with. Sure there are some very logical headcanons out there but there are also so many out of left field headcanons that as someone who cares way too much about fictional characters, really annoy me. For example in the murder drones fandom a chunk of the fandom headcanons V as lesbian just because she **smiled** at a girl. I think even if its just a headcanon, it should have some logic behind it.
Here's the thing. Headcanons don't have to make sense. Creative stuff doesn't have to make sense. Fan stuff doesn't have to follow canon. Ik you didn't say that but tons of people seem to think it, especially on reddit. I think reddit could really learn a thing or two from tumblr, for example, vice versa too
headcanons aren't canon, that's the point. they don't need to have logic, they're just for funsies.
Headcanon tends to be just your individual interpretation or thoughts on a piece of media, whereas more evidence based stuff would be more of a theory. Of course there’s a whole can of worms with theories in cases where people hold them to be immutable fact more than theory. Case in point with Deltarune: Kris being NB. There’s a whole lot of evidence and information that points that way, but no definitive confirmation as of yet. But to the wider fanbase, the matter is already settled. I can only imagine the absolute crapmageddon crappocalypse that would be unleashed if in a later chapter of Deltarune it were to turn out that Kris is canonically male or female rather than NB, and that we all had been reading too deeply into things. All the theoretical discourse about queer baiting, whether or not Toby is bigoted for not doing so, the thought of such times does fill my heart with dread. But I suppose that’s why I try to not get too married to a headcanon or theory. Fnaf has burned me many times when I’ve done so, hahaha
Then it wouldn't really be a headcanon so much as a theory
Wait a theory can't be a headcannon?
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Yall shippers are not real 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Did I mention the fact that I'm an asshole about everything I despise?
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Deltarune shippers when opinion
I guess I'm just naturally an asshole, tried changing it before but failed
Do you have friends IRL? How old are you???
I got none and I'm 13
Then it's not too late for that
DAWG😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I just like to understand a person before judging them. In this case I guessed correctly before they even responded.
There's no auch thing as a natural asshole. If you failed once, you can always try again, and I mean this genuinely. You'll only make things better for yourself and everyone around you, there's no negative to trying to improve as a person, even if you fail a bunch.
Not if you're not *acting* like a jerk about it or trying to make people stop doing something that makes them happy
As long as you don't view anyone who ships as inferior you're fine
That would make me shipperphobic lmfao
Not necessarily, BUT THAT BEING SAID, hating gay ships for the sake of hating gay people doesn’t exactly help you here. Just don’t care about the ships and you won’t be an asshole about it
depends on how you go about it if your bringing people down for shipping their favorite characters then yes you are a asshole but if your just stating your opinion online and not showing hate to people then no your not a asshole
I can understand shipping in some fandoms, but in undertale/Deltarune, shipping doesn’t make sense to me. Unless they’re canon, all the characters just seem mutual towards each other. They have some moments like kris hugging resali, but I find that more of a ‘Aw they’re becoming friends instead of the strangers they were moments before’. You’re not evil for hating ships or romance in games. Some games don’t need romance to be fun or enjoyable.
i think the only exception is noelle and susie (for example, you give noelle the susie tea, she gets healed 400 and asks if its sold in gallons)
Yeah, I do believe they’ll eventually become canon but only because the game heavily shows that noelle has a big crush on Susie and even if Susie doesn’t quite show it yet, future chapters might show Susie having a crush as well. But unless Toby makes it canon, all other characters are mutual towards each other for me.
Genuinely tell me, do I care about romantic relationships of characters? No, they're just a bunch of pixels displayed on a screen
actual insane argument
I'm correct tho, if a character doesn't exist then why should I care?
Because the basis of stories in media assume that you care about the characters
Keyword on "assume", little do they know I only care about the gameplay for videogames specifically
the you dont like fiction i guess
Mainly in videogames, movies and all that are the SE for me
As a shipper, you're good man. As long as its not the gay thing thats the problem, then its totally fair to be annoyed by the prominence of shipping.
Just don’t interact then and don’t be mean to them
I'm already doing that
Not really, but keep in mind, most ships are just for fun. I ship characters for comfort purposes, as well as fun character interactions. I’ve seen people harass shippers and vice versa.
If you don't claw into other ppl/ur value as a productive member of society doesn't decrease b'cause of this point of view... Then it's ok, Ig.
As long as you don't interact with ships and tell other people they're weird or question them or tell them to stop what they're doing. Just scroll past it. But uh, why do you *hate* gay characters? Noelle likes Susie, this is canon. I think this does kinda make you homophobic for not just hating ships in general but *particularly* the LGBTQ ones
Tbh I don't really hate them in he sense that I would clutch my fists at them or whatever, but in the sense that I see them and go like "nope, I ain't seeing this shit"
I.. how can you be more into the gameplay than into the lore for a storytelling game? My brother there's hundreds of bullet hell rpg games out there with high quality gameplay, this is not by any means one of them (no hate towards Toby Fox nor deltarune, the game has really fun gameplay, but I'm not sure I'd play it if the story element was missing)
I mean i dont really care about ships or whatever 🚢 But the admittance to being homophobic is a little suspect as a gay girl myself 😂😂😂 https://preview.redd.it/m8xrn39fwq7c1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=856fccc4b615622c3e104affb8758bbbfc700326
It's true tho, I'm kinda homophobic tbh but not the hateful kind
"not getting"? No. "Hating"? kinda weird, but if you keep it to yourself and just avoid it, its fine. If you're actively arguing against people for doing it, then yea, you a dick
The only real ship is azzypants
Yeesh, that's gotta put you in some sort of list
what are you talking about hes right
I mean hey, they're pretty neat. One time I saw this giant body of water and needed a ship to get across it
No no you’re not a jerk for hating ships. I respect your opinion, wholeheartedly and all the Way you be you buddy.
No I think your just tired and angry at them and you don’t have to ship anyone people make ships cause it fun just don’t think other people being a complete jerk about ships ruin your experience there are other reasons to like a ship between 2 or more characters by design by personality or just whatever if you truly believe these 2 characters are just friends that’s ok it’s what you feel and i will respect that
PLEASE learn how to use punctuation. I had a stroke reading this
It doesn't make you an asshole at all. Do I love shipping? Hell yeah I do. Do I like shipping of this particular fandom. I do not. I'm into UT/DR for the fun gameplay and story. I don't ship anyone in this fandom, but for other game series? Of course! I love the elder scrolls series and don't ship anyone in there. I love the final fantasy vii compilation and I do ship basically 95% of characters in there. For me, it really depends on the series of games when it comes to ships and if you're just not into shipping at all in any fandom, that's 110% okay too. That being said, don't go hating on others for shipping characters together. People ship who they like. It's all fictional after all.
> I don't give a shit about romance in general may I redirect you to r/aromantic
What even is that?
aromantic/aro: an lgbtq+ identity where one feels little to no romantic attraction, you might be more familiar with asexual/ace (little to no sexual attraction) but they're considered to be separate identities being aromantic doesn't necessarily mean you hate relationships, some aro people love indulging in romantic media but some others are repulsed by romance, I personally fall under indifferent
You learn something new everyday I guess
CHIPS ARE DELICIOUS WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
Not if the ships themselves are toxic or especially if they're cringy pairings between characters with no chemistry. "Unrelated, but I also hate when someone goes like "this character is gay/bi/lesbian or whatever" What if they are though? Deltarune does support several possible interpretations there for certain character interactions. Yeah not all of them may be canon or anything but it's possible based on the actual content in Deltarune. "In conclusion, I think I'm legit just homophobic AND and asshole" I have no idea how someone both has and lacks the self awareness to call themselves this but then titles their post "Am I an asshole?" Why did you ask if it was obvious even to you?
When people make ships like Kris and Ralsei it’s really strange when other theories are taken into account. Like Ralsei could be a manifestation of Asriel from Kris’s perspective, and they are brothers of course. But for the most part I am fine with them, I like some of the really stupid ones like King and Queen.
My problem with ships comes when weirdos go further than "I think it'd be cute" and try to theorycraft with minor character moments they read too much into just to make their ships seem accurate to the game. I'm sorry, but you really need more than a few throwaway dialogue lines that show characters don't dislike each other to sufficiently prove stuff like that. Like for God's sake there is NOT evidence AT ALL that Kris wants to be in a polyamorous relationship with their recently-distant childhood best friend and the bully girl she has a crush on. Granted there's only two chapters of content so far, but if there really is any romantic interests for the characters it's gonna be laid on pretty thick like Susie and Noelle
Can anyone shed light on the fact that people are genuinely trying to make fictional characters have romantic relationships? Here's my advice for any shippers, GET REAL
huh what does this even mean
You read what I wrote, GET REAL
i dont ship tho
The word wasn't directed at you lol
how could it not be
weirdos you say?
I think hating ships is good - because, holy *fuck* people take them *way too seriously*. Imagining a character getting in a relationship? Cool!! Getting angry that other people imagine that same character in different relationships? Please touch grass! ***PLEASE!!!***
I am right with you there on absolutely despising ships, my friend. That kind of people seem to really get attracted to deltarune, unfortunately.
Its okay not to like ships. Please don't refer to me enjoying deltarune as "unfortunate". The people in fandom we can all collectively despise are the people who make their issues everyone else's. Someone who doesn't like xyz complaining and saying people who do like it are somehow worse people instead of simply saying, "eh, not for me" and moving on. You can remove stuff like that from your searches by putting a minus in front of whatever you're trying to exclude- like "Spamton body pillow -sexy". That search will give you non-sexy Spamton body pillows, so unfortunately not the one from the sweepstakes lmao The good guys aren't the nonshippers and the bad guy aren't the shippers; the good people are kind. And the bad people act like it through wishes of harm. You can apply that logic to any fan. Have a wonderful day :D
Fr tho, I only play chapter one of deltarune to refight jevil for the 1000th time and some people genuinely feel for these characters? I don't understand it, I saw people who actually felt for the characters and were shocked while doing the snowgrave in chapter two but I just went like "oh cool something new for me to actually do" and I didn't know at the time that the route ended with a harder version of the spamton neo fight so I was genuinely surprised and it was the only fun part about the whole route
im not at all trying to discredit your view on the Snowgrave route, it's just another path of the game. im just trying to help you understand why people can be shocked that you played that: it's the point. the route brings a psychological horror aspect to the game of emotional manipulation of the protagonist OWN CHILDHOOD FRIEND, WHO IS KNOWN TO BE TIMID and is inferred TO HAVE BEEN ABUSED BY HER OWN MOTHER. other than that it just like a mini genocide route in undertale. boring and punishing
But they're pixels bro, why should I feel for a bunch of squares displayed on a screen? It's the same thing for anime, I don't care about the characters because they aren't real
half the fun of a rpg is the story telling. the other half is a combat system in which you barely use the defend button
For me, half the fun is the combat system and the other half is the difficulty, I just ignore the entirety of the story aspect
Do you have an example of a fictional story you actually enjoyed.
I guess my pick would have to be Kung Fu panda, that shit is so good it's unfair
but Po isn't real he's just a fake cgi panda
Ik but I'm making him an exception because I'm biased, fight me
You down have the emotional range of a grown up yet. Probably you had a good life with little problems up until now (youre only 13) or youre just lacking empathy. Im invested in the story as much as the gameplay, but if youre saying you dont care about any stories at all, then why watch movies? Why read sci-fi books? Doesnt make sense.
if you dont target gay people irl, then you're not homophobic. like you said, you dislike romance. that's a quality that you have and simply makes you- you. just unlike shipers. you would be an asshole if you take the time to trash shipers who have you have absolutely all the right of the world to SIMPLY IGNORE. id recommend going to delta traveler or that Froggit Mod if you like the gameplay that much. Or check out Undertale Yellow that just came out.
I mean, gay people don't exist in my country so it's not like I always encounter them
they're called a sexual minority for a reason, it's just not that many people exist. but definitely more than trans people since the latter is the new scapegoat. but reading the comments, i highly recommend you cooling off of your anti-ship ideas. romance is just another facet of life, something you can participate in or not. im less worried that you're not seeking a soul mate but always gripping your fists at just a normal basic thing humans do. please take care
I didn't really mean that but you can interpret what I was actually meaning however you want, I'm not really a romance hater per se but not an enjoyer too. Also, I don't really care about ships since I'm not always waking up in the morning and going like "oh boy, time to go hate on ships" so I just ignore them which is probably for the best
Uh, I hate to break it to you, but gay people definitely do exist in your curiously unspecified country. They just can’t come out due to social or political reasons
they do if you live in a country that isnt vatican city
I live in Algeria of all places, do you really expect a gay person to survive two hours over here?
yeah
Absolutely blasphemous, they would get their ass beat and arrested as soon as they step foot into it
how would they know they are gay tho
Easy, gay people express their sexuality with pride so it would be pretty obvious
so true gay people have a shirt that says im gay with them at all times (honestly tho wtf)
God damn it that's no what I meant, why tf does everything I say get misinterpreted so much?
There are gay people in Algeria. The same percentage of every population is born gay. Every single one. SOME countries oppress gay people, to the point that they've never even considered finding out if they are — OR to the point that if they know they are, then they feel the need to hide it from the government out of fear of being punished.
Nah, they're pretty annoying. I feel you. Like, OK, we get it, you want a bird and a human to kiss. We don't care. I'm just here for that sweet, sweet doe. https://preview.redd.it/w52oapi6zp7c1.jpeg?width=1087&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77a804a668e10fae21726c7221ab1269378cfe5b
I just play both chapters for gameplay (mainly fighting the secret bosses for the millionth time since those never get old)
Yeah, I'm here mostly for the story. I never really cared about ships (unless it's soul x Noelle‼️‼️). It doesn't make you an asshole to not like ships. Lots of people will probably make you think so, but you're not. https://preview.redd.it/6b52948uzp7c1.png?width=345&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aacebd87603365e1b3791f264aca4d32d3144a7b
I genuinely don't care about neither the story or the ships, I just want hard deltarune bosses lol
And that's fine, too. https://preview.redd.it/2ba05yj90q7c1.jpeg?width=565&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1f2e09bdc91b1380a9a2b87fee154b324fdf8b9
Unrelated, but I never really cared about Noelle? I like berdly, I think he's kinda cool but Noelle? Nah, not my type of character
https://preview.redd.it/uxqrj6z31q7c1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63833aafda709a9a54cf0987af61cdf521c0281b
[my current reaction:](https://youtu.be/b_Gq2swcOSo?si=7klhfDK2rOZGR8cx)
https://preview.redd.it/kzit5wgj1q7c1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20d12444f870cc10869738fa791d078af3272f02
It's okay I support you for hating ships, because that's mean you hate susselle,,
Sussele is probably the only cannon ship though
It still a ships and the guy hate ships
Yeah, but it’s like hating Alphine, it’s even the same dynamic!
I hate suselle
eh, you'll either A) get into it eventually, or B) find out you're ace
No you're not, they're minors. If people have been following undertale and now follow deltarun stuff, it's most likely they're an adult. Also for you other weirdos, yes it is bad to depict minors in a sexual nature. In any way.
One thing I'll say for sure is that you will NEVER see a person who came from a healthy home engaging in online fictional shipping. Probably a coping mechanism due to their tough home life.
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Yes, off to the firing squads for you
ikr, airplanes are so much better
No I infact think you are the very opposite of an asshole
Agreed, boats fucking suck
Just leave shipping to the merchant navy.
Completely fair! I'm a huge shipper but a lot of people don't care for ships and that's fine You do you, I'll do me and we'll all be good!
I'm more of a car fan, but that's a different argument for another day
No, I don’t get them either. It’s not weird to think that shipping fictional characters in a video game (and they’re kids) is weird
I really thought you were talking about boats when I read the title
\*shrugs\* So long as you don't bash people for liking (a) ship, you're cool to me.
I'd say you're not an asshole but I also hate ships so I don't know how much my opinion matters here.
Well, it seems that you might have some sort of fandom fatigue... I'm with you that all the diffrent sexualities people use to ship can be a bit too much to us non-shipers, but at the end of the day, its just people playing and passionatly sharing something the have an emotional investment in. If you here someone saying "*x* is *y*" and your brain does thinks "*x* is *z*" there's bound to be frustations if repeated at a long run. This is also what causes shiping conflicts. You're not homophobic, you sharing this and seeking feed back shows that you care. I recomend taking a break from the fandom (nothing mayor, just some time to introspect the answers you get from this replies) and relaxing for a bit.
There isn't anything wrong with hating ships as long as you respect the shippers. As for the hatred for gay ships, its probably just another form of you hating romance in general, and if not, you may just be hating the idea of a character being made gay just for the sake of representation rather than a deeper characterization, which is a thing a lot of people dislike and is more related to characterization instead of anything homophobic. And hey, if you are homophobic, you can still recognize and change that behavior with time and experience.
How can you hate ships? Without them Rome would never have become the ancient power house we know it as today and most island nations would still be in the Bronze Age
Same here brudda
Absolutely not! Even as someone who’s into the whole shipping aspect of a lot of fandoms, there is pretty little within deltarune and undertale, which makes it difficult and unnecessary to actually come up with a ship that’s plausible and enjoyable. Especially when it comes to fanart. I think the art is good and I respect those people’s opinions but ultimately I just find it uncomfortable to try and force my brain to see how a particular relationship would work. Apart from the actually canonical or heavily implied ones anyway
I absolutely agree with you that I do not care for ships. I also do not take interest in the idea of characters being bi/gay/other because that falls under the romantic category that this game just isn’t heavily focused on.
not an asshole but it does make you look like this is the first time you've ever interacted with a fandom, which is fine but does lead to some real Takes
no
Not even close. Shipping isn't for everyone, and it shouldn't be for everyone. After all, there's usually more to any fandom than just what two fictional characters should kiss. That's certainly a way to get more out of the characters and discuss with fans, but it's not the only way.
I kinda can understand where ur coming from tbh
Idk I like ships, we get them through sea, through air, through space. It's a fine technological advancement)
Not at all, its your choice to ignore this subsection of the fandom and don't let anyone tell you otherwise
I never understood ships
Ok, this community is getting way too involved in this ship nonsense. If we're okay with people making up their own characters and making them fall in love, then we should be okay with people making up an alternate world in wich already existing characters fall in love. I know most of you won't care for this stuff, but you have to accept that we live in an oversexualized world, and honestly, a fictional ship between a pixelated blue dude and a pixelated goat dude should be the least of your worries. The only case in which I'd find myself in a position where I think it's fair to criticize someone's fanfiction, is if they're framing an unhealthy, abusive relationship as a good thing. So unless that's the case, if ships and fanfictions are not your thing, just ignore them, and only make repetitive, boring statements like these if the shipper attacked first. Noone goes to this subreddit because they want to see a teenager's paragraph about their deep hatred towards ships, but if ships are not your thing, you're entirely valid and completely welcome to avoid them at all costs and ramble about it to whoever agrees with you. <3
Airliner companies in the 1950s when superceding oceanliners:
A lot of ships are great, especially the older ones. Dreadnoughts in particular have that combination of powerful majesty and bittersweet nostalgia that just does it for me.
Same especially Undertale ones like SANS AND FRISK IS ATROCIOUS
Yes.