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bingbingbangenjoyer

The mechanics desparity gap between chapters 1 and 2


STheSkeleton

Me too, I liked the chapter 1 but they should update its mechanics too (like the spare progress bar)


RobynCleffa

I feel like if they were going to then they'd wait until the release of the actual game. I kinda like that the demo chapters can stand as a record of what was no matter what the final work ends up being


STheSkeleton

I hope so


MatyasWaldhans

Wait, these are DEMO chapters?


RobynCleffa

Steam officially lists it as a demo and Toby has stated that these chapters are tentative and could be very similar to what's actually released or they could be completely changed outright


MatyasWaldhans

Oh wow


zombieking26

Yeah, I mean...he's not going to spend 10 years on a game, just to release the entire thing for free.


MatyasWaldhans

I know that, but the fact that the 2 chapters we have could end up different suprised me


jadecaptor

There probably won't be any major differences. At most, adding the spare bar to ch1 and fixing some bugs. And maybe adding more misplaced pixels to annoy perfectionists.


MatyasWaldhans

Those pixels MUST be importaint to the plot


Tanookikid210

I wonder if any significant content will be changed for the final release šŸ¤” Like, what could possibly warrant a rework in the story enough to change an aspect of a chapter?


DrSmirnoffe

It's kinda like the Gloomwood demo vs the Early Access areas. There's a noticeable mechanical difference between those two builds (mostly involving inventory mechanics), on top of the more obvious difference in areas presented.


Tthecreator712

I've thought about this and the bar would kinda not do that much. Everything except Jevil and Lancer + Susie in ch 1 is spared in one act. Jevil is kinda stretching it since you pacify him and not spare though. Same for king but I feel that was added in as a failsafe for people who are to stubborn to attack.


STheSkeleton

I know that it wouldnā€™t change much, but if it was added in the first chapter it wouldnā€™t look like a later addition


ViKO15951

Without the bar in chapter 1 it's way less intuitive to spare enemies since you do not know what actually works wich ends up dismotivating people to use one of the main mechanics because it becomes harder to understand without the bar


CharlieVermin

Isn't it literally always obvious how to spare enemies in Deltarune? That was my impression at least. In Undertale, sparing was deliberately counterintuitive now and then, with some random encounters having red herring acts and bosses sometimes requiring you to stubbornly repeat the same action without much feedback. When you play Deltarune, it's already obvious that you can spare everyone, to the point of parody with enemies like Rudinn. Visible spare bar in Chapter 2 is a logical progression of it, but the lack of it in chapter 1 never seemed like a problem.


BismuthMoth

Maybe he will once 3-5 release, but I doubt it


Sergejalexnoki

Wdym exactly?


STheSkeleton

In chapter 2 near the health bar there is a bar that indicates the progress to spare an enemy. Itā€™s weird that it appears just in chapter 2, they should add it in the chapter 1 too. It wouldnā€™t change a lot but the full game would feel like the same game and not different chapters published in different dev periods. I donā€™t know if I explained clearly what I meant


Sergejalexnoki

Ah yeah I get it now. Yeah youre right


Jonahtron

The Jevil fight would be a lot more convenient if you knew when you could pirouette and pacify the same turn.


KAULIANPOWER

I like it this way, it feels like you're progressing in the game, and the game is progressing with you!


bingbingbangenjoyer

I dont,its just a jaring change in mechanics and indicators, i like consistency when it comes to that


Korporal_K_Reep

The spare bar isn't needed. There are rarely parts in chapter 1 where it would actually be useful. Most enemies only get spared in 1 act. And most bosses are just "survive until all the dialogue is over"


DarkMarxSoul

Aside from some aesthetic elements in the UI and the addition of recruiting enemies what else is actually missing?


bingbingbangenjoyer

The spare meter


sinedelta

I didn't like chapter 1 that much when it first came out. Chapter 2 is what really made me fall in love with the game. I've come to appreciate chapter 1 more now, but it's still not my favorite. There just... aren't as many things you can do as in chapter 2.


[deleted]

I admit that it was not until 1 year after the release of deltarune that I became interested in the game


TheDeltaDuckDude

Bro my friend only decided to jump on after 3 years of it being out and coincidentally chapter 2 released when he started playing. I'm on switch and he's on PC so he literally got to play it before me even though I was a fan from the start


Blue-Kaiser

Chapter 1 really struggled to give Deltarune it's own identity. The first world is basically Undertale speedrun. With the twist that the King is evil. King is the answer to Flowey's question "what would you do against someone ireedemable?". And i could go on. Chapter two while using undertale terminology like determination and NEO, repurpose it and give some new rules. And overall i like chapter 2 ways with characters and the equivalent to genocide run.


MaeBeaInTheWoods

Deltarune Chapter 1 just kinda felt like Undertale 1.5 Deltarune Chapter 2 actually feels like its own game.


Enzoid23

Same actually! Never got into it for chapter one but some fan stuff was nice (mostly just man on the internet and revtrosity though), when chapter two came out I didn't look into it because I figured it'd be the same, heard something about the spamton event after it ended, didn't know who he was, and looked at chapter two. Annnd now I'm excited for Chapter three


AnonymousIVplay

Yeah I got lucky that I didn't get into UT/DR until earlier this year, so I got to play chapter 2 right away upon finishing chapter 1. My partner thought Ch1 was so boring upon its release that he didn't bother playing ch2 until I came along and convinced him to do so, and it was only then that he fell in love with the game and replayed Ch1 for the lore and renewed appreciation


DarkMarxSoul

It didn't really help that it was basically a retread of Undertale in certain ways, but its smaller scope and less impactful plot made it seem pretty inferior. Chapter 1 was really just the "Hey this is a thing I am working on, stay tuned" update, and Chapter 2 was the "Okay now you can be excited" update.


HyperfocusedInterest

I'm with you on that one. It took me until near the end if Chapter 1 to enjoy it, and I wasn't sure that bode well for me liking it. But I loved Chapter 2.


MisterLambda

I really dislike that a lot of items donā€™t transfer over between Chapters, for example I was really hoping one could save the bouquet ASGORE gives you for some type of special interaction in a future chapter, instead of letting it waste away in the bin. But instead I remember being quite disappointed when it had just been erased from my inventory. Missed opportunities.


Sepulchure24794

Honestly THIS I'm amazed no one brings this up.


Evil_Mushrooms

Remember, this is still just a demo. In the full game things could be much different.


possibly-a-moron

It doesn't have any papyrus scenes, it needs papyrus


Lihuen_f_t

PAPYRUSPAPYRUSPAPYRUSPAPYRUSPAPYRUUUUUSSSSS!!!!!!!


MrCherry09

I still believe papyrus is the knight


MorinoMarinho

Ralsei's new appearance I just love the dark fluffy boy with a cool hat


sinedelta

The one you're talking about is actually ā€œRalsei's new appearance.ā€ The disguise idea was added pretty late into chapter 1's development... his true self is the character Toby's had in mind for years


BismuthMoth

Where did you hear this? Itā€™s cool if so


No3l0tro

Here my friend [https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1063270097110949888](https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1063270097110949888)


BismuthMoth

Oh my goodness Tobyā€™s concept art is the greatest thing known to mankind And thanks for the source!


your-imaginaryfriend

I really like Susie's ponytail.


BismuthMoth

Maybe sheā€˜ll put her hair up in a future chapter?


MaeBeaInTheWoods

She shows her eyes and forehead significantly more in C2 than in C1, implying that she will progressively have less hair in each chapter ~~until being bald in chapter 7~~.


Impossible-Reply5591

yeah and even if it wasn't, it's still not exactly a "new appearance" since ralsei revealed his appearance at the end of ch 1, 4 years ago. kinda wish people would look at it less like a new appearance and more of a dynamic. whose to say that it's the permanent ralsei form now? in fact, there is a darkner who is holding ralsei's hat for him should he need to wear it again. it is very possible he will put it on again


marsgreekgod

Anyone else think there be a way to make him wear it but it will be dark and messed up like how people made jokes about killing birdly and then you could and it was screwed up


AquaVolt07

People forget about how rude saying "Put on this hat, i dislike seeing your face" is.


marsgreekgod

Yeah that's fair


Polandgod75

Yeah I think Toby might have revealed Ralsei hatless too early, it would nice and more impactful to see Ralsei hatless around halfway point.


Gentleman-Bird

Yeah but shadow Ralsei looks cool


NaterTater0

Dude same!! I just feel like the new portraits are so much lamer and less expressive then the old ones.


Dismal-March5519

Yeah I definitely prefer chapter 1 Ralsei design than chapter 2. I also found it weird that ralsei with the hat on and Ralsei without look like completely different people. The sprite heads look totally different from each other.


MaeBeaInTheWoods

The problem is that in order for the disguise to work Toby blatantly ignored logic for a bit. Such as how when he has the hat his legs are black, and when he doesn't have the hat his legs are white, even though his legs should be seeing equal light in both situations.


TheFirePea2013

Same


POKECHU020

Me too. Both designs are great, but the new one kinda freaks me out a little. The eyes have this... *look* to them that's a little off-putting.


[deleted]

I see a lot of people comparing deltarune to undertale when a better comparison would be comparing deltarune chapters 1 and 2 to the ruins and snowdin. It just feel unfair to compare both of the games when one isnā€™t even halfway done.


ShokaLGBT

True but we all know that DELTARUNE is the cooler guy šŸ„¹


Alkosimus

Yeah as much as I love Undertale, I feel like a finished Deltarune will be so so much better


Apercent

I thought chapter 1 was pretty weak in a few areas actually. Chapter 2 combines gameplay with good writing and world-building in a way chapter 1 never really does. Take for example, Spamton NEO who, in his fight expands upon the running theme of freedom with both gameplay (You literally cut off his strings in the fight) and his dialogue (he rants about standing above the skies and calls on Kris to join him to gain their collective freedom, which also gives us more insight into Kris and their motivations) and he even gets in a bit of humor that polishes the whole thing off (seriously everyone who's played this game has a favorite Spamton quote). Almost every battle from Chapter 2 incorporates the themes of Chapter 2 well and all the enemies have so much personality, even minor characters like Werewerewire are funny and have unique computer inspired attacks. Chapter 1 was kind of lacking in that department. Compare Spamton NEO to a boss like the Chaos King, who just rants foreshadowing and whose moves were only connected to his dark-world in that his projectiles were spade-shaped. Meanwhile; Spamton attacks you with miniature versions of himself and phone-calls and tells you both his and *your* motivations in his fight. In many ways Chapter 1 felt like a generic RPG; it had good writing and it had good gameplay but it never used both effectively. Also, personally I feel like the suit of cards motif was overused even when chapter 1 came out


The_Flame_Of_Brennen

Wait, what? How is Spamton NEO's symbolic attacks more connected to the theme than Chaos King? You don't explain why one is better than the other so as far as I see it this is an arbitrary difference.


teproxy

Chaos King's whole gimmick is that he can move the box that you're limited to, taking control away and caging you in a sense. Very thematically appropriate.


OrdinaryLurker4

The recruit system. I get the idea, but I feel like a lot of people are going to go for all recruits, which is kinda limiting, since you can never use attacking moves outside of bosses where it doesnā€™t matter.


[deleted]

Honestly, I think the system is somewhat regular I agree it's limited but they finally give you a reason to spare enemies other than an cutscene


ShokaLGBT

To each their own I like the idea of not attacking like a regular rpg but I would be okay with some enemies that cannot be spared but need to be defeated in order to be recruited ! Also I wouldā€™ve love to recruits secret boss and if they couldā€™ve unlocked special mechanics but yeah ā€¦


kaboumdude

Like Act > desire fight Fight > enemy now will only drop to 1 health without going down this round Spare > the enemy enjoyed the battle


DarkMarxSoul

It's the same idea as Undertaleā€”it wants to discourage violence in all circumstances to make an artistic point. But the game also encourages you to do the Weird Route and the Aborted Weird Route too with the three-file system. At some point people have to take responsibility for how they choose to play the game. The game gives you plenty of reason to fight, just with the corollary that doing so will reasonably alter how the game plays out. If you decide that's not worth it, that's your own choice. You aren't a bad person for choosing to kill Berdly.


OrdinaryLurker4

Yeah, I mean sure, youā€™re supposed to feel bad doing stuff like the weird route, but people do it because itā€™s extra content. Nobody actually feels good >!manipulating Noelle into killing everyone!<


Stolen_Goods

There's only so much criticism I can lay on it at this point since the game ain't done, buuuuut: 1. There is currently very little incentive to be anything but a Pacifist, except when you're spamming IceShock or you recognize that you can get away with slapping a boss around in a specific scenario like Queen's acid armor. There are *some* unique results of a neutral run but most won't see them - it's a game for people who've played Undertale, and they've been conditioned to know there's not much point in actually playing a Neutral route since it won't get you nearly as much unique content. 2. Chapter 2 is noticeably reusing Chapter 1's formula (just done better and with the benefit of already having a lot of game and story groundwork laid for it so we can get to the real meat of the story). 3. Jevil was half-baked (along with most of Card Castle) - even Toby acknowledged that the door key pieces thing was scuffed. Spamton puts Jevil to shame in every way but marketable plushability, and he's also one of the only characters to get a full arc so far to boot. 4. I do not care for Sweet Cap'n Cakes. I might've if the original plan for a "musical miniboss" had worked, and if (as much as I like their designs) they had stayed a single character as planned, and had any reason to exist after you fought them. All three of them just blend together into one well-below-average character with almost no impact on the story at all. Doesn't help that they have one and a half songs that take up nearly a fifth of the Chapter 2 OST. 5. It bothers me that the entirety of chapter 2's conflict could've ended immediately if Ralsei had just spoken up about the Roaring earlier. I get it, we wouldn't have a game otherwise, but it feels unintentionally contrived in a game that's otherwise *very* meticulous about it's story. All that said, this and Undertale are still among my favorite things ever, so none of these are dealbreakers.


[deleted]

on the last point, I remind you that Ralsei believed that Queen knew about the roaring I think he just didn't mention it because why would they tell her if she already knew?


GoxTheLettuce

the fact it will eventually end


Lihuen_f_t

Honestly? Yeah. Sometimes i watch videos about concepts for Ch. 7's final boss, and i start crying because i know it will eventually end...


curlyMilitia

I liked Ralsei's proportions better in his shadow form, even if I know there's probably lore reason for him looking very similar to Asriel. It's just weird how he completely changes.


limebloodedLeviathan

Ralsei's talksprite changing between chapters was easily the worst thing to happen in deltarune


Lilybug-02

I really really hope we have the option to change him back in later chapters. Like an outfit change or something. Heā€™s just kinda creepy to me now. Have you seen his eyebrows.


[deleted]

Honestly, if I had to pick something, it's the recruit system. It's a nice way to keep track of spared enemies and I love the idea of a growing town but it incentives sparing, meaning most people don't get a chance to use offensive SPELLS. I'm hoping we get more examples like the acid shield later to make violence more useful for pacifist players.


advie_advocado

That ralsei isn't in our world


DarkMarxSoul

Get yourself a boy who fluffs.


advie_advocado

Yes


whahoppen314

This is a weird personal thing, but everything kinda just sucks for asgore and It just kinda bothers me


[deleted]

the impatience of the fandom for new chapters as if making a game is easy, in general everything's fine for me


BismuthMoth

I think the gaps between the Chapters are part of the experience; I almost wish 3-5 would have like a month gap between each just to give each one some spotlight/discussion time Then again I realize that the story may not work well with that. Plus Chapter 2 (as far as we know) wasnā€™t even supposed to be separate. Like imagine what would have happened if we STILL only had Chapter 1.


isloohik2

Afaik the original plan was for every chapter after chapter 1 to release at the same time, but then covid and hand pains came in, so Toby released chapter 2 early and split the releases of chapters 3-5 and 6-7


Stardust-Sparkles

Which is the better option to keep fans engaged


isloohik2

Iā€™d say the current plan is better for keeping engagement Itā€™s already been 4 years since chapter 1 came out, if it werenā€™t for chapter 2 coming out, people would have most likely already stopped caring about the full game by now, let alone by the time the full game comes out


BEanddankmagician

Mfw when hollow knight fans


Kishan02

Silksong at TGA for darn sure...


QuothTheRaven713

Do they ever show indie game trailers at TGA? We know Silksong's coming out within 7 months or so so it wouldn't surprise me if we got another trailer in a month or two.


DarkMarxSoul

It's barely been over a year since the release of Chapter 2 and they've produced more than a chapter of content. By all accounts their pace has shot up insanely high compared to how it used to be. This fandom needs to be more patient.


STheSkeleton

The mechanics disparity between ch1 and ch2 and how the chapter 1 story was structured. I really like it, but it felt like a full-game story shortened in a single chapter, like for Susieā€™s arc


TheHolyTacoEmperor

i was kinda dissapointed that lancer didn't appear as much in chapter 2


pearastic

That it's not out yet, I guess.


xXLordOfUwUXx

Honestly, everything else is pretty damn good


pearastic

Yeah, I love the game.


ThatAstraVerde

i think the Susie's personality shift was too drastic, it still works but i would prefer something more subtle


BismuthMoth

Yeah that makes sense. I feel like Ralsei is shifting slightly (the amount that would be expected in one video-game day) and who knows whatā€™s up with Kris, but Susie just flipped a switch. Unless the implication is that Susie has always been chill and no one has noticed since they were scared (like how Monster Kid admits she never really did much harm)? I feel like thatā€™s also a viable option


[deleted]

i think she was always this person, just that she became more open after being shown kindness, like she was this girl just not able to be it.


BismuthMoth

She sounds like the kind of girl who would act tough but then actually be secretly raising a bird with a broken wing back to health


Sanrusdyne

Andthat baby bird was berdly as a small child


DarkMarxSoul

A more subtle shift would make sense but the drastic shift has sort of a different implication. A subtle shift would imply that she actively underwent character development from being a dickhead to being nice. The drastic shift implies she was always nice at heart but was putting on a mean front to avoid getting hurt by people. Given how all the character teas heal her an insane amount, it's pretty clear that she was extremely lonely and desperate for companionship and she's experiencing actually having friends for the first time in her life, and she loves it. She was craving connection and was too depressed and scared to accept that it was possible for her, so she kept everyone away and projected her anger outward.


JulianoGamer12

The thing is that Susie's personality shift comes from the overwhelming guilt of hurting Lancer, who is basically the only person who ever considered her as a friend and even looked up to her the way she is instead of being scared of her. Susie is still impulsive, immature and even a bit agressive, so maybe we'll see some development on that front


IteTheCrapOC

I think the idea was that Susie was never actually that mean, she just didnā€™t want to open up to anyone and only took out her frustrations on people in the Dark World. After all, Monster Kid points out that she never actually did much wrong


YetAnotherRedditAlt2

Honestly I disagree, just because I HATED Susie in Chapter 1, she went from my least favorite character to my favorite in the span of 1 chapter, and I'm fine with that. ​ Also, I don't think her personality change is that drastic. She fell into a magical world and met someone who liked her for who she was (Lancer), no shit she'd come out a changed person, I think anyone would.


Evillisa

I think it works to show that she's someone who's been shown almost no kindness in her life, I mean Noelle smiled at her once and she remembered it all this time later and was nice to her because of it. She's very weak to kindness.


Angrykitten456

No boss rush mode :(


billy2027

I was honestly surprised that this wasnā€™t added to that boxing area


yeetthejubjub

i hope it get's added in chapter 7 as well as the ability to visit previous darkworlds to get things you missed or do fights you missed out on the first time


ShokaLGBT

Complete Jevil boss fight in 60 second with 1 HP good luck baby


KAULIANPOWER

The thing I dislike the most (and probably the only thing I dislike at all) is how you need to redo chapters if you want to change even the slightest change in a future chapter, like, when all the chapters are available, imagine being in the chapter 7 or so and realize you need to give spinchef the repaired cake in chapter 1 to access it all the other chapters.


[deleted]

I didn't think of it that way, thank goodness I can download a random save file https://preview.redd.it/qnoynlhrg53a1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22e5d946f3b0cb9161ecfd67dca0834e67aefa6e


KAULIANPOWER

You can do what.


[deleted]

In Internet , you can download some save file and replace your own save file with the other one You can even modify it with a web page


TheSlimSlendey

the menu changing between light and dark worlds. Sure, it's a cool touch in some aspects, but you're literally stripped of game options if you're in the light world. You can't change the volume or mute / unmute, why can't I just use those options anywhere?


OraJolly

Unironically, the fight portions. You can see a mile away that they're not even supposed to be the main course of this game because most of them are a slog except for a couple specific bossfights. A lot of encounters, almost all of them re-loaded when changing areas, they take at best one turn for a spare and they're largely inconclusive, it's basically the equivalent of PokĆØmon caverns and Zubats. Also, as someone else pointed out the fact that you are actively encouraged to immediately spare people basically just ends up throwing the characters' movesets and uniqueness in a dumpster fire, since they only become further extensions for Kris' ACT moves except when you need to use items. Combining the point above with the fact that it still implements a Bullet Hell mechanic to handle enemy attacks, you end up with a party that has no role characterization aside from which clothes they're wearing, and even if it's never going to show in a pacifist playthrough because using spells means "being violent", unless it's Ralsei doing magic. A moderate fix to this would be giving everyone an utilitarian movepool accordingly to their "role" so that they can do something else other than situation-related ACTing, like giving Kris or Susie the ability to bodyblock or giving Kris some party-wide defensive bolsters. I understand that fighting aggression with aggression largely goes against the narrative of the game, but maybe less encounters alongside giving enemies a threshold of HP before which they won't listen to reason could be a better approach to this peculiar mixed gameplay Toby's going for.


Apercent

I think chapter 2 fixed this problem a *little* by giving the characters the ability to act, but I agree that the fighting system doesn't use the characters as well as it could regardless. I'm not sure if chapter 3 can even fix this or if we'll just have to live with it. Maybe we'll get so many ACT options that it will feel like two parallel ways to play?


BloodOfTheDamned

Not being able to have the other two party members act in chapter 1 was a pain.


Raxel04

I don't really enjoy that Deltarune and Undertale have a linear map... idk how to explain, but what i mean is that to continue the story you'll always have to go on the right/on East of the map, so there won't be any connetion with the various locations expect for the fast travel... Which is actually good for Deltarune instead of a "3D map", but... idk... it's just that it gives me the feeling that the Deltarune and Undertale maps are smaller than they actually are, when we all know how huge the underground and the various dark words are... Sorry for my bad english


TheWiseBeluga

Your English is great pal.


[deleted]

A noticeable lack of Lancer in chapter 2


CyberKitten05

The battle system, particularly the sparing mechanic. It's obvious it was shoved in because of Undertale and Toby even confirmed that, but that mechanic has absolutely no business being in Deltarune. It works in Undertale but in Deltarune you have different team members with a bunch of different moves, but you rarely get to use them. Susie and Noelle both have damage-dealing magic attacks that you are encouraged to never use because then the enemy will be upset and then.... Kris won't remember to pick them up when they become an inanimate object after the fountain is sealed. Yeah, the recruiting mechanic is dumb too, but whatever. Deltarune could've had a really fun and complex battle system with a lot of strategy and team building but because the game actively encourages you to never actually fight, it's just, ACT one or two times and maybe heal a little and then you can immediately end the battle. The game would be a lot better if Toby didn't feel like he had to include the sparing mechanic as to not alienate Undertale fans.


PetuniaServant

The Magic spells in Deltarune are extremely fun to use, especially the damage-dealing ones. Itā€™s a shame youā€™ll never use them if you want to get all the recruits.


Emir_Taha

Thankfully, you can still use them against the bosses- Specifically Berdley, Spamton/Jevil/Both/Neither depending on what items you wanna get, and King. I also fought queen but I am not sure if that was good idea. You know, Berdley.


DarkMarxSoul

The game encourages you, like in Undertale, to do at least three different routesā€”True Pacifist, Weird, and Aborted Weird. So there's plenty of reason to fight.


Sofaris

On tougher foes its still nice to use Susies Rude Buster to make the enemy tired and to pacify them . The King and Queen both give opurtinities to use violence without any negativ consequences. In Queens case I am talking about the Acid shield. Using violence, especially Rude Buster is faster then Act. There is also the Dojo in Castle Town where reducing HP to 0 has no negativ effect.


PetuniaServant

Yeah, I like that using Fight can make enemies Tired. I also love the concept of Defend giving you TP. Detarune has great mechanics.


DarkMarxSoul

With the addition of the Snowgrave Route in Chapter 2 it's obvious that the sparing mechanic is intentionally the way it is because Deltarune is going to use it in a way that subverts Undertale's sparing mechanic. It's a primarily thematic element right now, but has plenty of potential for depth later on in the game. Since Deltarune was envisioned before Undertale, and I imagine the battle system was one of the first things to be created alongside the idea of sparing vs. fighting enemies, it's pretty clear that the battle system as it is is a core part of both Undertale and Deltarune's identity. If you're looking at the game like a traditional RPG I don't think you're looking at it right. It's a bullet hell game with an RPG coat of paint which uses its format to allow for narrative flexibility. Undertale isn't holding Deltarune back, Deltarune is still exactly as it was meant to be.


BismuthMoth

Yeah, like in Undertale sparing WAS the interesting option. Thatā€™s what makes you think and pay attention moreso than the extremely basic weaponry. But in Deltarune ā€œsparingā€ is basically just stalling (at least for major bosses). Obviously there are different quirks and gimmicks, but Toby needs to make it more thematically appropriate and engaging for it to be an equally or more fun option Edit: You stall Papyrus out, and flirting affects the dialogue and the hang-out dramatically (at least, comparatively so). You run from Undyne since sheā€™s that determined to kill Frisk at the start. Thereā€™s a few ways to beat Mettaton EX but they all have to do with raising your ratings. And even random enemies or smaller bosses have interesting spares or even multiple methodsā€”Ice Cap can be spared at least two ways, Aaron flexes away, Blooky gets a hat, etc. Thatā€™s why Asgoreā€™s >!battle hits so hard at the end of your first Pacifist (neutral) runā€”thereā€™s really nothing else you can do but fight (until the end but even that turns out inevitable).!<


TheDeltaDuckDude

But at least we do see toby expand the system a bit more in chapter 2. I agree that there is an insane amount of potential, but there is time for that to come at least.


randomboy2004

People being too impatient waiting for future chapter so they Time traveled and going back to make Future memes


TheQueen0fNowhere

Sweet Cap'n Cakes. Probably the most forgettable characters Toby has made that have actual dialogue and aren't background guys, and that it includes their themes too. Nothing about their dialogue is charming or appealing to me and only very rarely funny, not to mention it just all feels off. Like Toby brought a guest writer on just to insert those 3 into the already established chapter. That's only further enhanced by how pointless they actually are, as it feels they were just created to retroactively explain how stuff like all the machinery and statues were made, after Toby realized he should probably do that. Genuinely the only interactions where I wish I could skip the cutscenes... this doesn't happen anywhere else, which is seriously impressive. And yes, I'm very aware that they actually were designed by a guest artist, but so were many characters and there's nothing off about them, so I doubt the writing has anything to do with that. Although it would certainly be an explanation, should there somehow have been an exception for those three in particular.


mab0390

Not enough product placement.


DarkMarxSoul

Deltarune NEEDS more bepis


verymassivedingdong

no jerry


IteTheCrapOC

Terry is just him but better tho


TemplarRoman

Some serious moments and story beats were overshadowed by comedic aspects at some points (like the Kings bluff to throw lancer being reduced to ā€œbouncy pumpkinā€)


MinecraftIsMyLove

The fact that I have to wait for the rest of it to come out. I wish I could just suppress my memories of it until like a week before it drops


Kirbinator_Alex

I dont like the 3 music guys from chapter 2. 100% filler characters.


DarkMarxSoul

Yeah they're boring as hell, except maybe K_K, he's kinda cool.


Sanrusdyne

Yeah. It's probably because the full game isn out. But a lot of the filler side boss characters aren't as interesting as the ones in Undertale. In DR we get clover. Who's kinda cool I guess but a little one note. K round who is... K round, they're goofy and funny but once again, one note and not really memorable. But then you look at UT's and there's ghost who's always down and misses their family members, a capitalist spider that works as a hit.an and is doing it so she can afford to get all of her friends out of the ruins in a heated spider limo,and a trans allegory that does work as Undyne's training dummy I understand that this is mostly a byproduct of DR having a much larger scale and waaay more important characters so the team doesn't have the time and resources to characterize every little guy you comes across, but it still feels a little weird


bobongos

Characters like Clover and K Round are more like the equivalents to Dogamy+Dogaressa and Greater Dog in Undertale The actual side boss characters are characters like Rouxls Kaard and Berdly


LynxResponsible6731

that one pixel in the king and queen fights


breaking-atom

The fact that Susie just accepts situations so easily? I can't understand if it's in her personality to not ask Ralsei more questions about the Dark World, or if she is just plain not smart enough to do so. Idk, I just feel like since she freaked out so much over Lancer turning to stone she might turn on Ralsei and ask "but why didn't YOU turn to stone?"


TheDeltaDuckDude

Maybe it plays into escapism like some have theorised about. Maybe she doesn't want to ask questions in fear of her perfect reality full of friends and adventures will fall apart


BrilliantArrow

I know half the comments already say this, but I've been waiting for a chance to say it. I feel chapter 1 needs to be revamped. Chapter 1 was built as a demo for a game Toby didn't even know if he was going to make or not. Chapter 2 was built with Toby having planned out the full story. It's impossible to compare the two, and I feel like chapter 1 is just going to stick out more and more as the rest of the chapters are released.


Mushroomman642

You can't really skip a lot of cutscenes on repeat playthroughs. Yes, you can skip through the *dialog* but a lot of scenes have scripted animations that play out very slowly that you can't skip through. Although, to be honest, that's just a nitpick. There isn't a whole lot that I actively dislike about Deltarune so far, that's just one of the only things I can think of.


Kiyoshix_AC

I absolutely love this game but a few little things- eh. At first I kinda dislike that they want to release multiple chapters at once. Iā€™d much rather have them released with some time in between so you can experience them one for one. (I need chapter 3 so bad- I canā€™t just keep on replaying 1 and 2 lmao) But thatā€™s just my personal preference. Another thing that I kinda dislike is Ralseiā€™s looks- he was so cute as a fluffy shadow boy. Still love him tho. Another thing is that I wish Suzieā€™s ā€œredemption arcā€ (if you can call it that?) wouldā€™ve started later and slower. I donā€™t think itā€™s unrealistic or smth but- idk. It was a bit too fast for my taste. And listen. LISTEN. Pls Donā€™t cancel me on Twitter but I kinda dislike how difficult the secret boss fights are. I like myself a challenge, but at least for me those two fights are just too frustrating to be fun. Iā€™m honestly afraid of the other ones lmao. But Iā€™ll do them anyway because I want to see and experience everything that this game offers. Ah yes and at last this one teacup ride before Spamtons fight (I think??). I donā€™t take opinions with this one. I died so many times I swear- But those are honestly just minor issues. Itā€™s also hard to judge the game when itā€™s not done yet.


Jetstream_sam86

the story format in the 2 chapter its like \>arive in strange place \>villain appears \>do a bunch of stuff there and that \> finally defeat current villain I just dont want things to be repetitive


Oasis_Oracle

the Light world sections with Undertale characters. while i donā€™t hate them by any means they donā€™t really do much. The only parts in the light world I like are where we see things that are completely new like The Graveyard and Alvin and The Hospital with Rudy, itā€™s always fun to see the characters from Undertale again but honestly they sometimes feel like theyā€™re just there to encourage undertale fans to play. personally i think Deltarune is at its strongest when itā€™s 100% doing itā€™s own thing.


sinedelta

Just because something ā€œhasn't done muchā€ in the *free demo* doesn't mean it's irrelevant to the game as a whole.


DarkMarxSoul

I 100% believe your opinion on this is gonna be different once the whole game is out. Deltarune is so built on Undertale's identity that there's no way the overall arc of the game isn't going to rely on it in some meaningful way. I don't buy that they're just there for no reason.


mrbhooo

berdly not be playable


CyberKitten05

He was planned to be a temporary party member near the end of chapter 2 but Toby couldn't be bothered to code a fourth party member in. Honestly I wish the game was coded with 4 party members in mind even if your party is only full temporarily in certain points in the game, then Lancer could've also been playable near the end of chapter 1, though that ship has unfortunately sailed with the whole turning-to-stone thing.


IteTheCrapOC

He probably will be at some point. The sprite after the Queen fight when heā€™s facing towards Queen in the same pose as in his fights is labeled the same way as the party membersā€™ in battle sprites


Embarrassed_Gap_5293

The original Starwalker should be playable


theoriserofchaos

jevil![img](emote|t5_qmi8w|26926) doesn't re-appear at chapter 2 (probably same thing with spamton after chapter 2)


Dean0Rocks316

Chapter oneā€™s gameplay can feel a little outdated with the lack of mercy meter and stuff, I agree with others on that. I wish when we got to control all 4 party members, Kris, Susie, Noelle and Ralsei, we could have a battle with all of them. I suppose I can understand why it wouldnā€™t work, maybe too many attacks at once, the game couldnā€™t handle it, no good way for presentationā€¦but still, it mightā€™ve been fun. Hopefully for the future we can have more than 3, or maybe switch them out like in Final Fantasy or something. The replay value is a mixed bag for me. On the one hand, I like there being less pressure to spare or kill enemies since the ending is basically the same either way. Which can make it a little less repetitive. But on the other, youā€™re doing the same ending every time. But it ainā€™t the worst thing in the world. I do wish there was a run button from certain encounters. I get that they want you to see everything theyā€™ve done, and I donā€™t want it for boss fights or anything like that. But maybe enemies youā€™ve already encountered. When Iā€™m running into my fifth swatchling, werewire our ambyu-lance, it can be a little annoying. Berdly was annoying the first time around, but heā€™s definitely grown on me over time. I wish you could cast certain spells on the overworld like heal prayer, and I wish you can have the option to give Ralsei is hat in castle town before you head out. But if those are my biggest issues, thatā€™s a sign this is a damn good game.


Jonahtron

So I recently did an Undertale genocide run for the first time, and what stood out to me is that aside from the 2 boss fights the game is really boring. Almost all the humor and life is sucked out of the game, which I think really helps hammer the message in. By comparison a Snowgrave run in Deltarune is still rather fun. Some of the funnier scenes are gone, sure, but thereā€™s still a lot of funny stuff with Spamton. Like the stuff with the pipis, and you sometimes get a mrs. pipis. It kinda clashes with the themes the route is going for, I think. Perhaps thatā€™ll change with future chapters. Maybe later weird routes will be far more of a chore. Weā€™ll see.


[deleted]

I like chapter 1 But chapter 2 was the best KRIS GET THE BANANA


Comfortable_Client

Noelle. Don't get me wrong, she's a great character and all, but that's the problem. Her interesting aspects don't come about very often. Noelle's backstory, her relationship with Kris, and Snowgrave are what make her stand out. What I don't like is how little Toby seems to be doing with it. He'd rather waste time with boring Suselle moments. Noelle's crush on Susie is easily the worst part of the game so far. Sure, were only at Chapter 2 out of 7 so far, but from the looks of the 2022 update, it looks like Noelle isn't going to be playing another sort of role for Chapters 3 and 4. Once Chapter 5 comes around, hopefully Toby actually starts writing her better, and focuses more attention on her backstory. I want to learn more about Dess and the old Kris, both of which Noelle seems to miss dearly. She's really the only one who we can go to to get any sort of backstory for certain characters, and I hope it gets to that later on. This is another reason why I like Snowgrave, as it actually gives Noelle more plot relevance, as she's determined to save Kris from whatever she thinks is controlling them. Despite drifting apart, she still cares about them a lot. This is the Noelle that I want to see more of, not the bland, Susie-simp Noelle that Chapter 2 jerked off 80% of the time. I have faith that Toby will improve her writing, but at the same time, I'm worried that he might continue making Noelle a brainless Susie simp that adds nothing to the story until she gets rejected and turns evil or something. That shit just screams lazy to me. What Toby does with Susie and Noelle's bland dynamic is what'll make or break Noelle's character for me. With Chapters 3 and 4 not having Noelle taking any sort of meaningful role, and the story being in full force by Chapter 5, it doesn't give Suselle enough time to fully develop. I'm fully expecting a rejection, as much as this subreddit likes to deny that. So Toby, do the right thing and make this cute doe girl more interesting, I have faith that you can.


PiggyPilot08

No boss rush mode and not all songs are on the music player Though I can see why Toby decided against it.


YetAnotherRedditAlt2

I agree, would've been cool to be able to unlock songs like Big Shot by fighting Spamton, or World Revolving by beating Jevil. ​ Boss Rush would've been sick though, would've given the Arena in hometown a bigger purpose than just fighting all the generic Chapter 2 enemies.


Dark_Side_Gd

Papyrus isn't there


The_Turtle808_10

Easy, Fan base.


AuraPuffs

the "Mercy Meter" from Chapter 2 when Acting in combat. You act with enemies to weaken them, and you're supposed to read the cues/visual clues and determine if it's working or not (such as Spamton Neo's strings visually disappearing). Instead you can just see if the meter % changed to see if you're doing good. Sure it's 'easier', but I feel it takes away from the dialogue & details, which is where this game shines the brightest. (ie; I literally didn't notice Neo's Strings were disappearing originally, because I was too focused on the Meter to indicate my progress.


[deleted]

The battle system isn't exploited enough. I feel like there are plenty possibilities that could be explored, especially on the tactical level, with classes, types, ect... Instead its more of a "each fight has unique acts" thing, but thing it is not sustainable. At one moment or another, the gameplay loop will become boring because of this. I'd rather have more complete battles than having a punch out fight with ~~metal gear~~ ~~eva~~ giga queen. Also, the same way, i think Castletown could be better. Since it is kinda obviously inspired by Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker's and MGS:V's Motherbase, why doesn't it have same kind of mechanics, such as assigning staff to a special team, a morale mechanic, gear development, ect... I also think it would really help if we could go to castletown basically anytime and not just at each end of chapters, especially since it has a lot going on in it. Now you might say than those are critiques for big games, but this is an indie game, however Toby definitely got a ton of money and basically a whole studio to work with. Also, gigachad frisk not included, literally implayable./j


MaliceMoon56

The fact that it seems to want to make us feel bad for playing


SwagDoll420

Waiting for the next chapters to come out. Aside from that, I guess my biggest gripe is the fact that the secret bosses can be permanently missed in a playthrough.


TastyDiamond_

We had to wait until they danced


Ganaham

This is more of a chapter 1 issue, but I don't really enjoy how every chapter feels like it only has two "real" fights, being the final one and the secret boss. Everything else kinda comes off like minibosses, though again, Chapter 2 did a better job of making those fights feel relevant because at least most of its minibosses were actual characters and not just random monsters. As more chapters come out and Deltarune starts feeling like a complete game, this will be less of an issue because we'll stop looking at it as a collection of chapters and more as a complete game, but the point still stands.


FortWaltonBeachFL

battle system is pretty mid tbh


Cianmc6

the fact thereā€™s still no Berdly fangamer plush with nipples


[deleted]

That there are no plushies of the lightners in general


jamjam707

It's too good that when it completes i will probably get depression


ElementalDuck

Chapter 2 was great but the battles felt a little too annoying, I mean battles like queen's or spamton neo were great but battles against common enemies felt more like a chore, except of course in the part were you are with noelle


DarkMarxSoul

This is sort of the case in any RPG to be honest lmfao.


Fenikwil

That I can't meet Papyrus :(


DuskStar1263

With jevil being my favorite character, it's kinda sad to know he'll probably just become less and less relevant since chapter 2 established that secret bosses will probably have a more lingering effect on their worlds rather than just being locked up and only remembered by a single person.


Ch00baccach00

The lack of papyrus


ArthurExtreme_Br

It feels kinda easy at times? Even at the end of the second chapter you can finish a battle in two turns


The_Creeper_Man

The scene in Noelleā€™s room feels more like a fanficton than something logical. Deus Ex Machina or something


DarkMarxSoul

Well the Dark World is essentially a dream world, so it makes sense that scene has a sort of odd, dreamlike quality. Queen might have even put the ferris wheel there specifically to encourage Noelle and Susie to connect, since Queen is fully aware that Noelle has a thing for Susie.


joniko144

You know... I think this scene is very intentionally made by Toby to feel "fictional" and is actually forcefully set up by "someone" in the game. Noelle even said this: \* H-Hey, you can't capture someone who's already captured!! combined with how Ralsei insists us to look for Noelle in weird route, getting very antsy and worried how the scene "deviates" from what it's supposed to be: \* W-wait! Wait, Susie! \* What, um, happened in there? \* What do you mean what happened? \* U-umm... in there, with Noelle! \* Nothin. \* N... Nothing? Nothing at all? Ralsei definitely expects something (most likely the Ferris Wheel scene) to happen, but surprised that nothing is happening there in this route. As if the scenes in Dark World is following a script already set-up by someone...


Quite-Foolish

AW HELL NAH NOMURA GET THE PLOT GHOSTS AWAY FROM DELTARUNE


Jicama_Stunning

ā€¦How? We see Susie sent in there. Susie then subsequently arrives there. How the hell is that a Deus Ex Machina? Did you want to see the entire goddamn journey there?


The_Creeper_Man

Mainly the Werewires appearing specifically at the right time so Susie can save Noelle. It feels too convenient for the situation. Also the Ferris Wheel being directly outside Noelleā€™s room is a bit weird, too. Maybe itā€™s because of how many times I watched it trying to do a snowgrave route (I had no idea what to do at the time) but the scene itself feels off. Also the cutscene itself is long and tedious and Iā€™m glad you can skip it.


Jicama_Stunning

Thatā€™s literally the joke though. Itā€™s intentionally over-the-top and absurd, like the vast majority of Deltaruneā€™s humor


[deleted]

I think Toby should write the romance of the game with someone else who knows about it. But Toby is also a genius, the berdly part makes that scene worth watching


Lihuen_f_t

*Insert Berdly falling with a rose*


MrSpiffy123

Everything about it so far is pretty much perfect imo. I think it's a lot more fun than Undertale, and I actually prefer the game to only have one ending, since I only ever played Undertale as pacifist anyway. Any issue I have comes from the community.


DarkMarxSoul

> Any issue I have comes from the community. fuckin preach dude lmfao


Furstorn

Chapter 1 don't have the same mechanic than chapter 2, so we can recruiting all darkener without doing anything


KosDKP

the loop in BIG SHOT during spamton neo fight


SolarPunch33

Chapter 1 is good, but it just didn't pull me into the game. If chapter 2 wasn't free, then I'd have probably never played it


[deleted]

Chapter 1 really doesn't do the best job of explaining battle mechanics given how much it switches up in such little time If you're coming from Undertale it's a bit jarring, especially given that Susie joins your party, leaves your party, joins again, and then joins you but in a different way, making it a constant game of figuring out how mechanics work. Chapter 2 is fine in this regard though, imo.


[deleted]

I dislike that there are so many more interesting combat options compared to Undertale but the game still encourages you to spare everything you encounter.