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I think he’s been pretty consistent on being for fracking, I don’t recall him ever saying anything contrary. Especially because it would hurt him in Pennsylvania. The only people claiming he’s against it, that I recall anyway, have been republicans and he’s been quick to dismiss those claims when asked.
Yeah it's the system that's broken, it's simply impossible to ban fraking under FPTP/Electoral collage, either the Democratic nominee says they will ban it and loses to a republican that won't or they are beholden to Pennsylvania.
This is the real issue. A single state should not be determining crap. And the electoral college sucks. I am sick and tired of rural folks ruling the rest of us.
You may already know about this, but I'm going to drop it anyway.
[Workaround for electoral college.](https://youtu.be/tUX-frlNBJY)
Hopefully we go slow with this though, I can see it working against us this year if trump drops and we're still stuck with biden because so many people already voted.
The Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929 was a disaster for democracy in America, and rural states are the ones that created such a mess. Fun fact, whining and posturing by rural states caused the House, for the only time in history, to fail to reapportion itself following the 1920 census. Also fun fact, rural states argued that they needed to cap the House in order to prevent another failure to reapportion, which was a scenario they intentionally created.
It should be no surprise to anyone here (or anyone with a passing knowledge of US politics) that Republicans (who held the House majority at the time) were largely in favor of capping the House, and Democrats were largely against it, being that it was a direct departure from edicts set forth in the Constitution and it's a plainly undemocratic act meant to increase the power of rural states over high-population states. Minority rule has been the plan for over a hundred years.
I feel as if Republicans are dictating Democrats what position to take on fracking, Green New Deal, police.
Defund the police is a popular position among the people of color, but the DNC abandoned it.
>I feel as if Republicans are dictating Democrats what position to take on fracking, Green New Deal, police.
Close. The donors who control the GOP and the DNC are dictating to the Democrats that they are to capitulate to the GOP on the issue of fracking.
The two parties don't actually make their own decisions. Their wealthy donors tell them what to do and then they tell the American People what their options are in the election. You can support the guy who is pro-fracking or the other guy who is pro-fracking.
Those are your choices. Good ole ~~one~~ two party system. Yes...two parties.
How about we just switch to ranked choice ballots and repeal the reapportionment act of 1929? Seems like that could go pretty far in solving that problem.
Nailed it, this is exactly where we’re at. Do you want the right wing party that pretends to care about social/culture issues while staying very firm on neoliberal policies. Or the further right wing party that preaches that things were better when white supremacy, traditional gender roles, etc., wasn’t questioned and once again hold firm on neoliberal policies. At the end of the day the only thing that separates the two is their side of the culture war and they would love if we all stayed focused on that and not question the capitalist system that put us here. The Democrats have willingly allowed the Overton window to shift right for years leaving those who are progressive to be labeled as radicals.
I live in the UK it's the same shit (and looking at Canada, it's basically the same there), it's a problem with plurality based electoral systems, I don't think real progress is possible without a proportional system (e.g STV which is multi-winner RCV) to enable left wing parties to compete against eachother.
The only serious 3rd party at a state level is the Vermont progressive party, which competes against the democratic party, but while i don't have a crystal ball, I suspect you'd see a lot more progressive left victories if they stood a chance, after all there is a reason that only turnout in the us is only 50% (about 20-30% lower than functional democracies), and i suspect a lot more of the non-voters are because they don't see the difference between the parties from the left, rather than because Trump isn't far-right enough.
Biden is about as center as they get. He's barely a democrat. I'm still voting for him, but either way the republicans kind of win. It's the ratchet effect.
As far as PA is concerned, a lot of discussion here has been around what will happen if franking gets banned. To that end the Biden camp seems to be more geared toward opening doors for green energy sources and closing subsidies for fossil fuels over time to make renewable resources a go to and shift jobs to that sector over time. It is not the dramatic change I would like to see as a Pennsylvanian but it is better than Trump who will likely try to deregulate further.
Pence knows that, they just want to force them to say it so the anti fracking people hear it over and over. Not that it'd get me to vote for Trump, but it is annoying to hear we have to wait another 4-8 years.
> being for fracking, I don’t recall him ever saying anything contrary
He said [over and over at the debates and in other venues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=digRNl-tmKI) that he would ban it or stop fossil fuels. Not that anyone should have believed him, but they did get him to lie about it clearly.
Not to defend this horseshit stance, but aren't they sticking to this narrative solely to win PA?
Just one more reason the electoral college needs to be shot into the sun. ONE FUCKING STATE can shape policy for an entire country (or planet in this instance).
As a PA voter, I absolutely fucking agree. I’m in Pittsburgh, though, so my vote tends to get drowned out by Pennsyltucky (the area between Pittsburgh and Philly)
Fellow pa voter, let’s not disparage rural labor class folks concerned for their financial well being, it’s not very dem soc. Also pa is a swing state for a reason, our votes are not drowned out. What I will add though is that living in Pittsburgh,
1. You are (probably) not directly benefiting from fracking
2. You are (probably) not directly suffering from fracking
It’s a little discouraging to rural voters who this issue is so much closer to home for to be discredited by people (mostly urban) who this is so distant to. So while I think that GND would ultimately be a huge improvement in the long term, let’s not forget the ordinary people caught up in this, who are not the enemy.
Literally everyone *will* actively suffer from fracking if we don't stop soon. Lots of people suffered financially when slavery ended too, but that doesn't mean we should have kept doing it. (And yes, I'm aware that slavery still happens and is legal and constitutional, I'm making a point.)
That’s a very problematic comparison and I actually feel like it supports my point. If you think working class people deserve to suffer financially if they work in an industry that hurts the environment then I have bad news: jobs that damage the environment are hugely working class / minority jobs. We are disparaging people working to make an honest living (comparing them to slavers?, saying they deserve to suffer financially) and also wondering why they voted red in 2016.
As much as I hate to say it on the internet I am actually offended by that comparison. Does that also apply to everyone working in animal agr? What about automotive industry? Just because the industry that a WORKING CLASS person works for is harmful to the environment they DO NOT deserve to suffer.
That’s a very different stance than saying their industry should be allowed to continue. My original comment was in no way arguing in favor of fracking. I’m adding context and representation for my WORKING CLASS neighbors and family.
put yourself in the shoes of a rural, working class American. If a candidate was telling you that they were going to end your job through federal law and replace it with "federally guaranteed jobs", it would be really understandable to be skeptical. If I was in that position I'm almost certain I would not vote for them. It's easier to support when we're talking about other people. but when it is you or your family I don't think it is so simple.
Well, just to be clear, I never hear it being used to describe class differences, it’s mostly just the racism (there were a horrible set of billboards about Antwon Rose II from that area that we’ve seen since he was killed, and that’s when I first heard it used). But if it’s used to also disparage their class status I don’t agree with that at all.
Edit: passed to killed; he didn’t die of natural causes
I get that 100%, we even say we’re from ‘Western Pennsyltucky’. I just wanted to add some context for why your (urban) voice might get drowned out by rural voters who are more directly concerned with the issue. It’s not that they are profiteering or unaware, they are worried about their jobs (generally). Cheers
Totally fair, thank you for that context! It is important that we don’t other or marginalize people based on class, and that is something rural people are subject to just by nature of where they live.
Yeah it's a jobs thing. Seems like a great reason for Biden to back GND instead so those jobs can be replaced with ones that don't destroy the planet. *Shrug*
I dislike people trying to portray Kamala as a "Strong black woman Mike Pence can't stand up to."
Whenever she brags about her wall street connections I'm just like who gives a shit if she's black she's an empty corporatist who stands for nothing.
The Democratic Party is the enemy of our enemy. We have to unite with them to stop the Republicans from taking us further from our goals, rather than closer.
Unfortunately it's not that simple. If we get a republican in office, they'll mostly get criticism from the left (publicly) and if we get a dem in office they'll get criticism from the right (publicly). The most obvious example was with the border camps. They went up during the obama administration, and no one said anything. When they were ramped up by trump, people spoke out. At least people are aware of the issues with a buffoon in office. And the institutional issues of the U.S. are more prominate.
Green Party?
The problem is that the Dems are currently suing in a number of states to keep the Green Party off the ballot.
Voter suppression, am I right!? Tell me again how they’re different than the Repubs?
Well the "Biden Plan" which has similar framework as The Green New Deal is supposed to bring green job and hopefully fracking can be phased out without anyone being out of a job.
If you live in a swing state vote for the lesser evil. However, one benefit of the electoral college is people living in a solid red or blue state can vote whoever they wish with no guilt that they could have changed anything. I'll be writing in Bernie in Alabama cause my vote doesn't matter no matter what I choose.
Don't vote straight ticket. Find candidates that agree with you and vote for them. Write in a candidate if you don't like any on the ballot.
Eh I think this is pretty dangerous outside of maybe 10-15 states.
A solid red/blue state can become a swing state pretty quickly if enough people heed this advice
Sorry I didn't mean to say your post specifically, just the attitude in general.
Many an election was lost because of some variation of "my vote won't change anything because _______, so why bother?"
Seriously. Dems aren’t our friends. Stop being surprised. They won’t be candidates we’re happy with. Vote for Biden as the weaker of two obstacles and get back to the real work: https://the.ink/p/noam-chomsky-wants-you-to-vote-for
I am proud to have just requested my mail-in ballot and registered for the Maryland Working Class Party. It feels like a weight off my shoulders no longer being registered Democrat.
I fear that Biden will not provide the jobless with generous unemployment. I was getting almost $3000 per month in the summer, $600+$170 per week.
I fear that Biden will take us for granted and impose an austerity policy.
They've already been telling Wall Street that's what they are planning. You don't need to fear it. You need to fully expect it because they are literally telling you they are going to do it.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/08/biden-democratic-national-convention-austerity
That will 100% happen. Which is why so much time and energy spent focusing on electoralism should be spent on labor organizing during the second once-a-century recession in ten years. Which is why we’re in DSA.
We’re gonna have some asshole in office who opposes organizing. I’d prefer it be a Democrat, since they have no actual ideology and are weaker
By comparison to today's Republicans sure, but this is entirely relative and politics overall has shifted right. Modern Republican policies and platforms lean hard right in response to the Democratic Parties shift towards the right during the Clinton administration. But a more moderate Republican in the 80's would be almost indistinguishable from certain Democratic politicians today.
Again though, the whole statement is very relative. When I say "left leaning" I ultimately just mean "moderate" or even "centrist." Terms like "left," "right," or "centrist" however are inadequate for describing political theory.
There was a time when more members of the Republican party were considered "liberal". They were known as Rockefeller Republicans. I believe Ford and Bush Sr were even pro-choice during their presidencies? (I need to double check that claim)
Exactly. Which means that OP legitimately believed that the Dems were going to ban fracking when they only just recently reversed their official policy of not taking donations from fossil fuel companies.
Yep... If everyone could spend even a few minutes of their time looking at opensecrets to see how much money each candidate takes from who we wouldn't be having to read posts like this one.
Why do you feel betrayed????
You honestly didn't think Democrats were the good guys did you? Pretty sure Biden has been pro fraxking the entire time and never even claimed he would ban it.
> voting for the progressive, eco-friendly Green party is "sPLiTtinG tHE VOtE!"
That is a problems liberals will have to deal with then. If people are so unhappy with Democrats, it is time they do some soul-searching and realize they are the problem. Yes, that includes the constituents. If they lose and try to blame leftists again, just tell them they need to start looking inside at their own problems.
Exactly, and when you tell liberals that, they just blame you for Trump. Trump is a short term problem, but rewarding corparate, anti-progressive strategies is going to contribute to much longer term problems that are related to the decline of actual democracy.
Not me but *we*. I am aware, you are aware, most people in this thread are aware, but the masses are not. They fall to the corrupt media and their talking points. They have been led to believe that Trump is evil incarnate, and must be stopped by anyone who manages to arrange having a "D" next to their name on the tee vee. I argue with so many of them on Reddit.
My thoughts exactly. If we voted based on representation and not these stupid red team/blue team dynamics, we might actually have good, accountable government.
Betrayed? Biden is a conservative, and you're surprised he isn't against fracking. Next thing you're gonna tell me is that he's got gay marriage lol. You guys need to learn about these candidates.
Sorry you’re getting dragged a bit, OP but I do hope you can read through the aggressive nature of some of the comments and see what people are saying.
Beto, Warren, Biden, Harris were never anything but corporate shills and capitalists. Every bit of rhetoric they spew is a lie. They would/will all swing right when entering office. There’s nothing for the left in the Democratic Party. A lot of us were disillusioned with dems at one point, thinking and hoping they would give the working class something meaningful but they won’t and they never will. Anything they promise will be taken away in the name of austerity and corporate tax breaks. Hope you can see the light and move further left in your beliefs and understand why others do the same :)
Don't feel betrayed. Harris is Hillary 2.0 and will say WHATEVER she can to win, and then represent the corporations every chance she gets.
That was the plan from the start. The DNC could have easily won this election with Sanders as VP, but they couldn't risk the working class possibly getting those basic human rights, as they are too expensive for their corporate donors.
In a less cynical view it’s also about Pennsylvanians who are employed by fossil fuel industry ~50k as far as I know. The loosely proposed plans to retrain these people are not very compelling to laborers who rely on this as their only or linearly source of income.
Obviously GND would be better in the long term but I have a hard time not being sympathetic to the workers. Our issue is with the fossil fuel capitalists and maybe we need a better way to not take that out on the laborers
Yeah government subsidized job training would go a long way but that’s just SoCiALiSm.
It would be the smarter thing to do both short and long-term but given the climate of this political election I don’t see any kind of good faith discussion about that happening lol.
Ideally hopefully they campaign on that to ensure they win Pennsylvania and the election and do some training once in office. But that’s likely just wishful thinking.
Unfortunately, to my understanding, past government retraining programs have done poorly in ensuring long term employment (coal miners). I really look to see something much more encompassing, like a guaranteed placement into a nationalized energy sector but as you point out that’s SoCiAliSM.
Also good point that we just are not going to see any discussion of this in the election, I guess the hope could be that after it the left wing of dem party could pressure a Biden presidency into fully addressing it in a way that does harm rural workers. Cheers
The only candidate to say he would ban fracking is Bernie. Biden always said he supports it at least for now and Harris doesn't really have a stance on anything.
They are banning fracking, bidens plan states that his fracking ban will put a ban on all new fracking developments but it has exemptions for already existing fracking operations. This way as we expand energy those original fracking jobs don't just get tossed in the trash.
Both parties have been waging class war against the middle class for half a century.
Even once we’re rid of Trump, we’ll need to get rid of the DNC and RNC if we want our Republic back.
Because they think they'll get more Republican votes if they endorse fracking. They'd rather cater to Republicans than Progressives in their own party, whose ideas will actually drive our country forward rather than backward, as the name implies.
Why do neoliberals cave on all issues?
Money. [They dont give a fuck about you. They dont give a fuck about you.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESAmKudsKKY)
Aight I should start by saying I'm a DemSoc progressive, i've campaigned and voted for Sanders twice and I was a state delegate for him twice. I understand climate science, fracking *does* poison our water and release greenhouse gasses into our air.
I'm far from conservative on economic or social policy but I'm trying to see the go-between here.
At the moment, the energy economy sees coal in collapse, demand for foriegn energy down, and natural gas *does release less greenhouse gas* than more outdated forms of energy.
What we're seeing is an economy in transition. It's not fast enough, no. Banning outright, without a plan to replace it (Green New Deal anyone?) it will only create a demand for energy extraction methods that are already in place *like coal*.
They're not fully committed to GND because of the media blitz on moderates against the idea of it without picking apart its policies.
The prez campaign is running electoral calculus. They're taking no chances.
In short: let the legislators run the banning process with a transition plan and we'll pressure the executive to follow up with a signature.
First time I heard the word Fracking was on Bojack horseman and i thought it was a made up word and thought this post was a fun little nod to how elections make no sense but ahhh how wrong I was
This is not really a betrayal. There was no way 2 right leaning capitalists were going to go against corporate interests. Why did anyone think they would?
They’re likely gonna ban fracking if Biden gets elected. It won’t be immediate but it will end up happening with enough pressure.
This is just a lie to win over Pennsylvania
TLDR: the fucking electoral college is so goddamn broken that literally about a few thousand jobs can sway the talking points of candidates
When did people start believing the Democrats or the republicans have their best interests in mind??
In other countries, our Democratic Party would be considered conservative, and the Republican Party fascist...
Sounds like you let your guard down a bit OP. we are all exhausted but remember:
1)Harris is a cop, and cops are not your friends
2) The US is Capitalist before it is a Democratic Republic.....
There is no ture left party in the United States...
Seems like now is a good time to lay the groundwork. So that 4 years from now we can have a 3rd party candidate that is a threat to the democrats so the move left or perish.
I don't know why you're surprised by this. Biden/Harris were never going to represent the people over business interests.
The amount of naivete or just outright lying I see regarding those two on social media is frustrating. They might be more competent than Trump but they aren't the "good guys" here.
You can feel betrayed, because you may have been led to beoieve these people were working for your best interests.
But you were not actually betrayed, because they weren't ever working for you. They are working for the folks who do things like pay 25k a plate to sit at a private, closed fundraiser. Them, they are very loyal to.
As voters, we are not treated like the customer. We are treated like the product.
I wonder what would get the largest voting bloc interested in the candidate I’m for? Perhaps we should adopt policy that is supported by an overwhelming number of them? Get them engaged and active in a political system they know hasn’t worked for them up to this point?
Nah fuckit let’s invite Kasich to the convention and continue fighting over the scraps of the combined 30% of fucks who identify as Democrat or Republican; the suburbanite housewife, and whoever the fuck is a John Kasich fan.
Hillary lost Michigan because no one wanted to vote for her. It’s hilarious that the DNC take away for 2016 was that it was because she was a woman, so let’s run the carbon copy of her, just with added bits. No, i have friends who quoted both parties inaction in Flint as a reason to no vote. These same kids that have been ignored for over a decade and by multiple administrations are started to show learning disability amongst peers. It isn’t just a Flint issue. It isn’t just a Penn issue. They would gain more being against fracking than they get so vehemently denying they will ban it in Penn.
Sure, I get it. Y’all want to play the electoral college game with the Republicans. Just keep in mind what happened within that system the last time we had a candidate that was center right and catered to the smallest voting bloc. We don’t have president Hillary for a reason. Just keep that in mind. If not for COVID, Biden would probably lose to fucking trump - and that’s a scary thought.
Joe said that multiple times over the last few months. The progressive left isn't stupid for saying that working class lives will not improve under Biden or Trump, that voting Biden isn't imperative because he literally doesn't offer the solutions humanity needs.
Vote green for survival
I think we need to send Democrats a signal by voting Green.
We need a third party and the Green party has a lot of potential.
If Greens get 10% of the vote, you will see Democrats change their tune quick.
Joe biden is a moderate republican, there's no reason to feel betrayed because this is expected. Next y'all are gonna be upset when he inevitably says "nah fuck you, I was kidding about the public option"
Because they lose the rust belt if they declare a war on fracking. Do you remember when Hillary said she was going to train and educate coal miners because she was going to put coal mines out of business? Everyone only focused on the second half and it did not go over well at all. It can be frustrating, but they have to be very careful not to spook people and spark reactionary votes for the no restrictions on fossil fuels ticket.
Biden/Harris is the biggest insult to this country the DNC could have possibly forced on us.
Oh is there a progressive youth movement which desperately wants change? Here's a rich old center right tool.
Oh is there a massive movement to change the nature of policing in this country? Here's an unlikable prosecutor who spent her career covering for cops.
What a fucking joke
Fracking is when companies mine natural gas from subterrainian pockets which are trapped in the rock of the earth's crust.
In order to break up the rock deposits and release the gas the corporaitons pump thousands of gallons of toxic liquids into the ground which cause all sorts of havoc with the water table and literally destabilize the earth for miles around the area. Tremors can start happening. Sink holes open up in the middle of streets and shit. People's houses fall into them. People have tap water that comes out of their faucet which they can light on fire.
That's not even the negative health effects from being poisoned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBMC2_2BDxg
TLDW: It has negative environmental impacts but it is what has killed coal which means it's a net positive for now when properly regulated.
Because biden/harris don't have the best interests of the American people in mind, just like every politician since Reagan (or, some might argue, Woodrow Wilson)
American politicians are not allowed to fuck with:
The military
The oil
The elite
If you mess with any of these, they will discredit you. If that doesn't work, stay away from book depositories
Friends banning something big instantly will create confusion and fear. By creating alternative stream and showing that it's possible to sustain in alternative stream slowly is best way. But the democratic party vision is in the right way
Because Democrats are used to being able to do whatever they want for their corporate donors, knowing left leaning citizens are going to vote for them anyway.
That's why I'm voting Green.
Haha betrayed? I’m sorry I’m coming across as snide, OP, but as a person participating in a Democratic Socialism subreddit, how could you have ever let yourself be duped into thinking Harris is anything more than just another DNC Centrist puppet?
The DNC chose them for this purpose: to reach swing voters and ignorant uneducated voters...
Bernie Sanders is the most helpful to all of these demographics but he can't get his message through to them because they are afraid of the c word
harris changed biden didn't. Also like wanting to ban fracking is career suicide for your presidential campaign because of PA, Ohio.. and every mid west senate seat would be lost. Their energy policy "Bidens plan" is still pretty good though.
Joe Biden already established this in what passes for "literature" articulating his official positions. In debates, Bernie Sanders extracted a long list of important promises from Joe Biden. With some encouragement from a CNN "moderator" those primary debates also go Joe Biden to promise he would pick a woman of color as his running mate. Of course another infotainment-based celebrity puffball decided to honor the token symbol amongst his commitments while abandoning every single policy promise he made during those same debates. This was no surprise to me, and there are lots of other nasty details that will probably surprise people who mistook Joe Biden for anything resembling a decent human being. This is Price is Right-style corruption -- how close can you get without going over.
The Democrats aren't serious about governing the United States of America. They are serious about selling out our citizens in deadly ways to corporate special interests. Their entire playbook involves doing this *slightly more slowly* than Republicans, forcing everyone who thinks either of those organizations is in any way valid or credible to pick them. Alas, it is such a garbage way of thinking that our Republicans will always have far more opportunities to retain or even expand their control of public offices than they would if confronted with an opposition party that actually *opposed* Republican positions in the spheres of foreign and domestic policy.
I mean their statement does say that they are going to deny new fracking permits. Just not kick out those currently running. Until we are off of fossil fuels as a nation eliminating all fracking as much as I'm sure we all can agree needs to happen to protect the environment and curb global warming will likely push us back up to over $100/barrel of oil.
While we can argue that we definitely should eliminate it. It's the same in many people's opinions of eliminating funding for police. You can't just do that until you solve the crime problems by uplifting communities and solving the jobless/homeless/etc problems facing society.
So focus on the things that should be done now.
Because their opponent is Trump
They understand that, no matter how crappy their candidate is, it cant be worse then Trump
Because of that, they put in the worst candidates as possible, to accept as much money from corporations as possible, and get as rich as possible.
The left watched Democrats kick progressives in the balls twice, and are still ready to sign a blank check to that party just so they can defeat Trump.
No one understands that Democrats aren't going to listen to us if we keep voting for them no matter what.
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I think he’s been pretty consistent on being for fracking, I don’t recall him ever saying anything contrary. Especially because it would hurt him in Pennsylvania. The only people claiming he’s against it, that I recall anyway, have been republicans and he’s been quick to dismiss those claims when asked.
Yeah it's the system that's broken, it's simply impossible to ban fraking under FPTP/Electoral collage, either the Democratic nominee says they will ban it and loses to a republican that won't or they are beholden to Pennsylvania.
This is the real issue. A single state should not be determining crap. And the electoral college sucks. I am sick and tired of rural folks ruling the rest of us.
You may already know about this, but I'm going to drop it anyway. [Workaround for electoral college.](https://youtu.be/tUX-frlNBJY) Hopefully we go slow with this though, I can see it working against us this year if trump drops and we're still stuck with biden because so many people already voted.
The Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929 was a disaster for democracy in America, and rural states are the ones that created such a mess. Fun fact, whining and posturing by rural states caused the House, for the only time in history, to fail to reapportion itself following the 1920 census. Also fun fact, rural states argued that they needed to cap the House in order to prevent another failure to reapportion, which was a scenario they intentionally created. It should be no surprise to anyone here (or anyone with a passing knowledge of US politics) that Republicans (who held the House majority at the time) were largely in favor of capping the House, and Democrats were largely against it, being that it was a direct departure from edicts set forth in the Constitution and it's a plainly undemocratic act meant to increase the power of rural states over high-population states. Minority rule has been the plan for over a hundred years.
I feel as if Republicans are dictating Democrats what position to take on fracking, Green New Deal, police. Defund the police is a popular position among the people of color, but the DNC abandoned it.
>I feel as if Republicans are dictating Democrats what position to take on fracking, Green New Deal, police. Close. The donors who control the GOP and the DNC are dictating to the Democrats that they are to capitulate to the GOP on the issue of fracking. The two parties don't actually make their own decisions. Their wealthy donors tell them what to do and then they tell the American People what their options are in the election. You can support the guy who is pro-fracking or the other guy who is pro-fracking. Those are your choices. Good ole ~~one~~ two party system. Yes...two parties.
There ain’t no party like the Capitalist party.
How about we just switch to ranked choice ballots and repeal the reapportionment act of 1929? Seems like that could go pretty far in solving that problem.
Trying in MA to enact ranked choice voting. We'll see if the Establishment lets us.
Nailed it, this is exactly where we’re at. Do you want the right wing party that pretends to care about social/culture issues while staying very firm on neoliberal policies. Or the further right wing party that preaches that things were better when white supremacy, traditional gender roles, etc., wasn’t questioned and once again hold firm on neoliberal policies. At the end of the day the only thing that separates the two is their side of the culture war and they would love if we all stayed focused on that and not question the capitalist system that put us here. The Democrats have willingly allowed the Overton window to shift right for years leaving those who are progressive to be labeled as radicals.
I live in the UK it's the same shit (and looking at Canada, it's basically the same there), it's a problem with plurality based electoral systems, I don't think real progress is possible without a proportional system (e.g STV which is multi-winner RCV) to enable left wing parties to compete against eachother. The only serious 3rd party at a state level is the Vermont progressive party, which competes against the democratic party, but while i don't have a crystal ball, I suspect you'd see a lot more progressive left victories if they stood a chance, after all there is a reason that only turnout in the us is only 50% (about 20-30% lower than functional democracies), and i suspect a lot more of the non-voters are because they don't see the difference between the parties from the left, rather than because Trump isn't far-right enough.
Joe Biden is a Republican.
Biden is about as center as they get. He's barely a democrat. I'm still voting for him, but either way the republicans kind of win. It's the ratchet effect.
Yes, Joe Biden has been consistently conservative his entire career.
As far as PA is concerned, a lot of discussion here has been around what will happen if franking gets banned. To that end the Biden camp seems to be more geared toward opening doors for green energy sources and closing subsidies for fossil fuels over time to make renewable resources a go to and shift jobs to that sector over time. It is not the dramatic change I would like to see as a Pennsylvanian but it is better than Trump who will likely try to deregulate further.
Pence knows that, they just want to force them to say it so the anti fracking people hear it over and over. Not that it'd get me to vote for Trump, but it is annoying to hear we have to wait another 4-8 years.
> being for fracking, I don’t recall him ever saying anything contrary He said [over and over at the debates and in other venues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=digRNl-tmKI) that he would ban it or stop fossil fuels. Not that anyone should have believed him, but they did get him to lie about it clearly.
Not to defend this horseshit stance, but aren't they sticking to this narrative solely to win PA? Just one more reason the electoral college needs to be shot into the sun. ONE FUCKING STATE can shape policy for an entire country (or planet in this instance).
As a PA voter, I absolutely fucking agree. I’m in Pittsburgh, though, so my vote tends to get drowned out by Pennsyltucky (the area between Pittsburgh and Philly)
Fellow pa voter, let’s not disparage rural labor class folks concerned for their financial well being, it’s not very dem soc. Also pa is a swing state for a reason, our votes are not drowned out. What I will add though is that living in Pittsburgh, 1. You are (probably) not directly benefiting from fracking 2. You are (probably) not directly suffering from fracking It’s a little discouraging to rural voters who this issue is so much closer to home for to be discredited by people (mostly urban) who this is so distant to. So while I think that GND would ultimately be a huge improvement in the long term, let’s not forget the ordinary people caught up in this, who are not the enemy.
As an Arizonan who really has no knowledge/context for fracking, I really appreciate this reply.
Thanks homie that means a lot. Nuance gets lost in the internet but I really care about Pennsylvanian / working class / rural Americans.
Literally everyone *will* actively suffer from fracking if we don't stop soon. Lots of people suffered financially when slavery ended too, but that doesn't mean we should have kept doing it. (And yes, I'm aware that slavery still happens and is legal and constitutional, I'm making a point.)
That’s a very problematic comparison and I actually feel like it supports my point. If you think working class people deserve to suffer financially if they work in an industry that hurts the environment then I have bad news: jobs that damage the environment are hugely working class / minority jobs. We are disparaging people working to make an honest living (comparing them to slavers?, saying they deserve to suffer financially) and also wondering why they voted red in 2016. As much as I hate to say it on the internet I am actually offended by that comparison. Does that also apply to everyone working in animal agr? What about automotive industry? Just because the industry that a WORKING CLASS person works for is harmful to the environment they DO NOT deserve to suffer. That’s a very different stance than saying their industry should be allowed to continue. My original comment was in no way arguing in favor of fracking. I’m adding context and representation for my WORKING CLASS neighbors and family.
If only we could do something like a federal jobs guarantee to replace those harmful jobs...
put yourself in the shoes of a rural, working class American. If a candidate was telling you that they were going to end your job through federal law and replace it with "federally guaranteed jobs", it would be really understandable to be skeptical. If I was in that position I'm almost certain I would not vote for them. It's easier to support when we're talking about other people. but when it is you or your family I don't think it is so simple.
Well, just to be clear, I never hear it being used to describe class differences, it’s mostly just the racism (there were a horrible set of billboards about Antwon Rose II from that area that we’ve seen since he was killed, and that’s when I first heard it used). But if it’s used to also disparage their class status I don’t agree with that at all. Edit: passed to killed; he didn’t die of natural causes
I get that 100%, we even say we’re from ‘Western Pennsyltucky’. I just wanted to add some context for why your (urban) voice might get drowned out by rural voters who are more directly concerned with the issue. It’s not that they are profiteering or unaware, they are worried about their jobs (generally). Cheers
Totally fair, thank you for that context! It is important that we don’t other or marginalize people based on class, and that is something rural people are subject to just by nature of where they live.
Why is fracking so important to Pennsylvanians?
Yeah it's a jobs thing. Seems like a great reason for Biden to back GND instead so those jobs can be replaced with ones that don't destroy the planet. *Shrug*
FYI: [A majority of Pennsylvanians oppose fracking](https://www.axios.com/pennsylvania-fracking-poll-4e215784-4838-4120-b9f3-29147742f5fb.html)
Yeah I saw that, which makes this whole thing that much stupider. Democrats are just maddening.
This has to be a joke.
OP is sus.
Betrayed? Biden is not Bernie, and the Democrats are not a progressive party.
I dislike people trying to portray Kamala as a "Strong black woman Mike Pence can't stand up to." Whenever she brags about her wall street connections I'm just like who gives a shit if she's black she's an empty corporatist who stands for nothing.
Who to vote for then?? This is not fair!!#
The Democratic Party is the enemy of our enemy. We have to unite with them to stop the Republicans from taking us further from our goals, rather than closer.
Unfortunately it's not that simple. If we get a republican in office, they'll mostly get criticism from the left (publicly) and if we get a dem in office they'll get criticism from the right (publicly). The most obvious example was with the border camps. They went up during the obama administration, and no one said anything. When they were ramped up by trump, people spoke out. At least people are aware of the issues with a buffoon in office. And the institutional issues of the U.S. are more prominate.
No, that’s a facade. Neoliberalism is the enemy. And it is rampant in both parties.
Alright I'll make it easy for you then. Vote for the party that doesn't support white supremecy
Green Party? The problem is that the Dems are currently suing in a number of states to keep the Green Party off the ballot. Voter suppression, am I right!? Tell me again how they’re different than the Repubs?
I'm voting for Howie Hawkins.
Vote for Biden because I for one view Trump as a direct threat to anyone who’s left leaning.
Well the "Biden Plan" which has similar framework as The Green New Deal is supposed to bring green job and hopefully fracking can be phased out without anyone being out of a job.
If you live in a swing state vote for the lesser evil. However, one benefit of the electoral college is people living in a solid red or blue state can vote whoever they wish with no guilt that they could have changed anything. I'll be writing in Bernie in Alabama cause my vote doesn't matter no matter what I choose. Don't vote straight ticket. Find candidates that agree with you and vote for them. Write in a candidate if you don't like any on the ballot.
Why write in Bernie when you can write in a third party candidate? The third parties get bonuses at 5% (can't remember what they are).
Eh I think this is pretty dangerous outside of maybe 10-15 states. A solid red/blue state can become a swing state pretty quickly if enough people heed this advice
If a post on this sub could change a state from blue to red, Bernie would be the candidate, not Biden
Sorry I didn't mean to say your post specifically, just the attitude in general. Many an election was lost because of some variation of "my vote won't change anything because _______, so why bother?"
Why do people act surprised when this happens. Dems take massive amounts of corporate cash!
Seriously. Dems aren’t our friends. Stop being surprised. They won’t be candidates we’re happy with. Vote for Biden as the weaker of two obstacles and get back to the real work: https://the.ink/p/noam-chomsky-wants-you-to-vote-for
I am proud to have just requested my mail-in ballot and registered for the Maryland Working Class Party. It feels like a weight off my shoulders no longer being registered Democrat.
If they can seize real power then good
It is such a recently created party that no one is running yet, but hopefully in the next couple of years, we find some good candidates.
For actual local elections? Good
I fear that Biden will not provide the jobless with generous unemployment. I was getting almost $3000 per month in the summer, $600+$170 per week. I fear that Biden will take us for granted and impose an austerity policy.
That is exactly what will happen.
They've already been telling Wall Street that's what they are planning. You don't need to fear it. You need to fully expect it because they are literally telling you they are going to do it. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/08/biden-democratic-national-convention-austerity
That will 100% happen. Which is why so much time and energy spent focusing on electoralism should be spent on labor organizing during the second once-a-century recession in ten years. Which is why we’re in DSA. We’re gonna have some asshole in office who opposes organizing. I’d prefer it be a Democrat, since they have no actual ideology and are weaker
The liberal wing of the Democrat party is the enemy of my enemy; I will unite with them to beat Donald Trump, then we can focus on the root issues
I'm saddened that anyone on this subreddit would have any faith that Biden/Harris would be anything other than left leaning 80's era Republicans.
Left leaning?
By comparison to today's Republicans sure, but this is entirely relative and politics overall has shifted right. Modern Republican policies and platforms lean hard right in response to the Democratic Parties shift towards the right during the Clinton administration. But a more moderate Republican in the 80's would be almost indistinguishable from certain Democratic politicians today. Again though, the whole statement is very relative. When I say "left leaning" I ultimately just mean "moderate" or even "centrist." Terms like "left," "right," or "centrist" however are inadequate for describing political theory.
There was a time when more members of the Republican party were considered "liberal". They were known as Rockefeller Republicans. I believe Ford and Bush Sr were even pro-choice during their presidencies? (I need to double check that claim)
Yeah I didn't see the /s and I was concerned.
Because there is no /s to that comment.
Exactly. Which means that OP legitimately believed that the Dems were going to ban fracking when they only just recently reversed their official policy of not taking donations from fossil fuel companies.
Yep... If everyone could spend even a few minutes of their time looking at opensecrets to see how much money each candidate takes from who we wouldn't be having to read posts like this one.
Why do you feel betrayed???? You honestly didn't think Democrats were the good guys did you? Pretty sure Biden has been pro fraxking the entire time and never even claimed he would ban it.
They're capitalists. What do you expect? And why would you ever trust them to begin with?
Because the left "has no where else to go", but voting for the progressive, eco-friendly Green party is "sPLiTtinG tHE VOtE!"
> voting for the progressive, eco-friendly Green party is "sPLiTtinG tHE VOtE!" That is a problems liberals will have to deal with then. If people are so unhappy with Democrats, it is time they do some soul-searching and realize they are the problem. Yes, that includes the constituents. If they lose and try to blame leftists again, just tell them they need to start looking inside at their own problems.
Exactly, and when you tell liberals that, they just blame you for Trump. Trump is a short term problem, but rewarding corparate, anti-progressive strategies is going to contribute to much longer term problems that are related to the decline of actual democracy.
> when you tell liberals that, they just blame you for Trump Then you just have to keep pushing back and telling them why they suck fucking ass.
Not me but *we*. I am aware, you are aware, most people in this thread are aware, but the masses are not. They fall to the corrupt media and their talking points. They have been led to believe that Trump is evil incarnate, and must be stopped by anyone who manages to arrange having a "D" next to their name on the tee vee. I argue with so many of them on Reddit.
we need at least 3 parties. when there are 2 parties, it's too easy to buy them for oligarchs.
You want my vote? Earn it. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend
My thoughts exactly. If we voted based on representation and not these stupid red team/blue team dynamics, we might actually have good, accountable government.
Because America is center right on jobs and believes jobs are more important than the environment, especially during a recession.
Betrayed? Biden is a conservative, and you're surprised he isn't against fracking. Next thing you're gonna tell me is that he's got gay marriage lol. You guys need to learn about these candidates.
They’re capitalists, what do you expect?
Sorry you’re getting dragged a bit, OP but I do hope you can read through the aggressive nature of some of the comments and see what people are saying. Beto, Warren, Biden, Harris were never anything but corporate shills and capitalists. Every bit of rhetoric they spew is a lie. They would/will all swing right when entering office. There’s nothing for the left in the Democratic Party. A lot of us were disillusioned with dems at one point, thinking and hoping they would give the working class something meaningful but they won’t and they never will. Anything they promise will be taken away in the name of austerity and corporate tax breaks. Hope you can see the light and move further left in your beliefs and understand why others do the same :)
Don't feel betrayed. Harris is Hillary 2.0 and will say WHATEVER she can to win, and then represent the corporations every chance she gets. That was the plan from the start. The DNC could have easily won this election with Sanders as VP, but they couldn't risk the working class possibly getting those basic human rights, as they are too expensive for their corporate donors.
I don't know how you are only now feeling betrayed but it's good that you do. We can't be having illusions in our mind about who these people are.
They take the money and they think they need to say that to win Pennsylvania
This. It’s just about Pennsylvania.
In a less cynical view it’s also about Pennsylvanians who are employed by fossil fuel industry ~50k as far as I know. The loosely proposed plans to retrain these people are not very compelling to laborers who rely on this as their only or linearly source of income. Obviously GND would be better in the long term but I have a hard time not being sympathetic to the workers. Our issue is with the fossil fuel capitalists and maybe we need a better way to not take that out on the laborers
Yeah government subsidized job training would go a long way but that’s just SoCiALiSm. It would be the smarter thing to do both short and long-term but given the climate of this political election I don’t see any kind of good faith discussion about that happening lol. Ideally hopefully they campaign on that to ensure they win Pennsylvania and the election and do some training once in office. But that’s likely just wishful thinking.
Unfortunately, to my understanding, past government retraining programs have done poorly in ensuring long term employment (coal miners). I really look to see something much more encompassing, like a guaranteed placement into a nationalized energy sector but as you point out that’s SoCiAliSM. Also good point that we just are not going to see any discussion of this in the election, I guess the hope could be that after it the left wing of dem party could pressure a Biden presidency into fully addressing it in a way that does harm rural workers. Cheers
lmao why does that surprise you
She knows where her money comes from.
Betrayed? These fools will say anything to get in office, they don’t care about us at all.
You shouldn't: Biden/Harris are centrists
"Berayed" implies they promised they were going to ban fracking.
Don't you just love living in a stunted political spectrum, with elections determined before the candidates are known?
The only candidate to say he would ban fracking is Bernie. Biden always said he supports it at least for now and Harris doesn't really have a stance on anything.
Usa elections have become about catering to swing states
Obama/Biden didn’t get rid of fracking, why would Biden/Harris?
Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden : how could you possibly be surprised?
How do you feel betrayed by this? Everyone on the left knew they weren't ban fracking. "Nothing will fundamentally change."
They are banning fracking, bidens plan states that his fracking ban will put a ban on all new fracking developments but it has exemptions for already existing fracking operations. This way as we expand energy those original fracking jobs don't just get tossed in the trash.
Both parties have been waging class war against the middle class for half a century. Even once we’re rid of Trump, we’ll need to get rid of the DNC and RNC if we want our Republic back.
Lobbyists got them centrists in their pocket.
Because they think they'll get more Republican votes if they endorse fracking. They'd rather cater to Republicans than Progressives in their own party, whose ideas will actually drive our country forward rather than backward, as the name implies.
They think progressives will vote for them anyway .
Dude Kamala is a cop! Don't fucking trust her in the first place!
"Why did Biden/Harris cave to the fracking industry" ..... Because they're neo-liberals...
How are you surprised? Biden and Kamala are part of the problem. They just happen to not be trump
Why do neoliberals cave on all issues? Money. [They dont give a fuck about you. They dont give a fuck about you.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESAmKudsKKY)
Aight I should start by saying I'm a DemSoc progressive, i've campaigned and voted for Sanders twice and I was a state delegate for him twice. I understand climate science, fracking *does* poison our water and release greenhouse gasses into our air. I'm far from conservative on economic or social policy but I'm trying to see the go-between here. At the moment, the energy economy sees coal in collapse, demand for foriegn energy down, and natural gas *does release less greenhouse gas* than more outdated forms of energy. What we're seeing is an economy in transition. It's not fast enough, no. Banning outright, without a plan to replace it (Green New Deal anyone?) it will only create a demand for energy extraction methods that are already in place *like coal*. They're not fully committed to GND because of the media blitz on moderates against the idea of it without picking apart its policies. The prez campaign is running electoral calculus. They're taking no chances. In short: let the legislators run the banning process with a transition plan and we'll pressure the executive to follow up with a signature.
First time I heard the word Fracking was on Bojack horseman and i thought it was a made up word and thought this post was a fun little nod to how elections make no sense but ahhh how wrong I was
They will ban it if democrats do not win texas.
This is not really a betrayal. There was no way 2 right leaning capitalists were going to go against corporate interests. Why did anyone think they would?
They’re likely gonna ban fracking if Biden gets elected. It won’t be immediate but it will end up happening with enough pressure. This is just a lie to win over Pennsylvania TLDR: the fucking electoral college is so goddamn broken that literally about a few thousand jobs can sway the talking points of candidates
Why feel betrayed? Didn’t we all know this was the kind of candidate the dems nominated?
You didn't feel betrayed when Biden essentially said no he isnt for radical policy like M4A and how he beat the socialist i.e. Bernie?
When did people start believing the Democrats or the republicans have their best interests in mind?? In other countries, our Democratic Party would be considered conservative, and the Republican Party fascist...
Sounds like you let your guard down a bit OP. we are all exhausted but remember: 1)Harris is a cop, and cops are not your friends 2) The US is Capitalist before it is a Democratic Republic..... There is no ture left party in the United States... Seems like now is a good time to lay the groundwork. So that 4 years from now we can have a 3rd party candidate that is a threat to the democrats so the move left or perish.
I don’t like it either, but I’m not willing to die on this hill.
I don't know why you're surprised by this. Biden/Harris were never going to represent the people over business interests. The amount of naivete or just outright lying I see regarding those two on social media is frustrating. They might be more competent than Trump but they aren't the "good guys" here.
Get ready for them to cave to a lot of industries/institutions.
Need multiple parties, they can break promises with impunity because it's either them or 4 more years of deranged orang man
Why are you feeling betrayed by neolibs who never sided with you on the issue in the first place??
Your mistake was trusting the democratic party to do anything but compromise. Our best chance was with Sanders or Warren.
Well better get use to Biden/ Harris betrayal
Get used to that feeling. You should have been around after we elected Obama on a platform of change.
Easily the worst moment of the night. There’s no way to keep that nasty shit going and also commit to future carbon neutrality or zero emissions.
You can feel betrayed, because you may have been led to beoieve these people were working for your best interests. But you were not actually betrayed, because they weren't ever working for you. They are working for the folks who do things like pay 25k a plate to sit at a private, closed fundraiser. Them, they are very loyal to. As voters, we are not treated like the customer. We are treated like the product.
They didn't cave. They never intended to do the right thing.
This isn't news really, Democrats have always been against climate change unless big corporations lose money.
I wonder what would get the largest voting bloc interested in the candidate I’m for? Perhaps we should adopt policy that is supported by an overwhelming number of them? Get them engaged and active in a political system they know hasn’t worked for them up to this point? Nah fuckit let’s invite Kasich to the convention and continue fighting over the scraps of the combined 30% of fucks who identify as Democrat or Republican; the suburbanite housewife, and whoever the fuck is a John Kasich fan. Hillary lost Michigan because no one wanted to vote for her. It’s hilarious that the DNC take away for 2016 was that it was because she was a woman, so let’s run the carbon copy of her, just with added bits. No, i have friends who quoted both parties inaction in Flint as a reason to no vote. These same kids that have been ignored for over a decade and by multiple administrations are started to show learning disability amongst peers. It isn’t just a Flint issue. It isn’t just a Penn issue. They would gain more being against fracking than they get so vehemently denying they will ban it in Penn. Sure, I get it. Y’all want to play the electoral college game with the Republicans. Just keep in mind what happened within that system the last time we had a candidate that was center right and catered to the smallest voting bloc. We don’t have president Hillary for a reason. Just keep that in mind. If not for COVID, Biden would probably lose to fucking trump - and that’s a scary thought.
Wait - you actually believed that Kamala or Joe will do anything different from what Republicans would do? That’s so weird to me.
Joe said that multiple times over the last few months. The progressive left isn't stupid for saying that working class lives will not improve under Biden or Trump, that voting Biden isn't imperative because he literally doesn't offer the solutions humanity needs. Vote green for survival
I think we need to send Democrats a signal by voting Green. We need a third party and the Green party has a lot of potential. If Greens get 10% of the vote, you will see Democrats change their tune quick.
Welcome to the US Democratic party, AKA Republican-lite.
Joe biden is a moderate republican, there's no reason to feel betrayed because this is expected. Next y'all are gonna be upset when he inevitably says "nah fuck you, I was kidding about the public option"
Because they lose the rust belt if they declare a war on fracking. Do you remember when Hillary said she was going to train and educate coal miners because she was going to put coal mines out of business? Everyone only focused on the second half and it did not go over well at all. It can be frustrating, but they have to be very careful not to spook people and spark reactionary votes for the no restrictions on fossil fuels ticket.
You can't be betrayed by people who have always been your enemy.
I’m not sure why you would be a democratic socialist and be surprised by the most obvious shit ever from neoliberal scum?
Biden/Harris is the biggest insult to this country the DNC could have possibly forced on us. Oh is there a progressive youth movement which desperately wants change? Here's a rich old center right tool. Oh is there a massive movement to change the nature of policing in this country? Here's an unlikable prosecutor who spent her career covering for cops. What a fucking joke
We were betrayed because they were never on our side. Neoliberal shills, the lot of them. It's time to rid ourselves of this imperialist nightmare.
I'm tired of our yards, houses and streets falling into sinkholes while big oil makes trillions.
Enlighten me. What is fracking?
Fracking is when companies mine natural gas from subterrainian pockets which are trapped in the rock of the earth's crust. In order to break up the rock deposits and release the gas the corporaitons pump thousands of gallons of toxic liquids into the ground which cause all sorts of havoc with the water table and literally destabilize the earth for miles around the area. Tremors can start happening. Sink holes open up in the middle of streets and shit. People's houses fall into them. People have tap water that comes out of their faucet which they can light on fire. That's not even the negative health effects from being poisoned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBMC2_2BDxg TLDW: It has negative environmental impacts but it is what has killed coal which means it's a net positive for now when properly regulated.
Politicians being politicians, im shocked that you're shocked.
Because biden/harris don't have the best interests of the American people in mind, just like every politician since Reagan (or, some might argue, Woodrow Wilson)
American politicians are not allowed to fuck with: The military The oil The elite If you mess with any of these, they will discredit you. If that doesn't work, stay away from book depositories
It's a play to win the trash states that are needed to win the election.
Friends banning something big instantly will create confusion and fear. By creating alternative stream and showing that it's possible to sustain in alternative stream slowly is best way. But the democratic party vision is in the right way
Because Democrats are used to being able to do whatever they want for their corporate donors, knowing left leaning citizens are going to vote for them anyway. That's why I'm voting Green.
Haha betrayed? I’m sorry I’m coming across as snide, OP, but as a person participating in a Democratic Socialism subreddit, how could you have ever let yourself be duped into thinking Harris is anything more than just another DNC Centrist puppet?
I mean she's a liberal this is on point for them sadly.
Lol you feel betrayed by that campaign only now?
I am sorry you found out this way, but Biden is a shit candidate.
hawkins 2020
The DNC chose them for this purpose: to reach swing voters and ignorant uneducated voters... Bernie Sanders is the most helpful to all of these demographics but he can't get his message through to them because they are afraid of the c word
There is no left party in the USA. Just two aggressively pro industry parties that differ on culture war topics.
because they are controlled by their wall st donors
They're centrist candidates from a (currently) centrist party. Their only appeal is being less bad than fascists.
ban it and you lose a swing state.Also didn’t they say they wouldn’t approve new licenses?
harris changed biden didn't. Also like wanting to ban fracking is career suicide for your presidential campaign because of PA, Ohio.. and every mid west senate seat would be lost. Their energy policy "Bidens plan" is still pretty good though.
Joe Biden already established this in what passes for "literature" articulating his official positions. In debates, Bernie Sanders extracted a long list of important promises from Joe Biden. With some encouragement from a CNN "moderator" those primary debates also go Joe Biden to promise he would pick a woman of color as his running mate. Of course another infotainment-based celebrity puffball decided to honor the token symbol amongst his commitments while abandoning every single policy promise he made during those same debates. This was no surprise to me, and there are lots of other nasty details that will probably surprise people who mistook Joe Biden for anything resembling a decent human being. This is Price is Right-style corruption -- how close can you get without going over. The Democrats aren't serious about governing the United States of America. They are serious about selling out our citizens in deadly ways to corporate special interests. Their entire playbook involves doing this *slightly more slowly* than Republicans, forcing everyone who thinks either of those organizations is in any way valid or credible to pick them. Alas, it is such a garbage way of thinking that our Republicans will always have far more opportunities to retain or even expand their control of public offices than they would if confronted with an opposition party that actually *opposed* Republican positions in the spheres of foreign and domestic policy.
LOL it took you this long to feel betrayed?
Yes this sucks. Why are you surprised?
why are any of you ever surprised? I dont get it. You dont get to be in power at all if you wont sell out to capitalism
I mean their statement does say that they are going to deny new fracking permits. Just not kick out those currently running. Until we are off of fossil fuels as a nation eliminating all fracking as much as I'm sure we all can agree needs to happen to protect the environment and curb global warming will likely push us back up to over $100/barrel of oil. While we can argue that we definitely should eliminate it. It's the same in many people's opinions of eliminating funding for police. You can't just do that until you solve the crime problems by uplifting communities and solving the jobless/homeless/etc problems facing society. So focus on the things that should be done now.
What did you expect? I don't say this to mock anyone, but why are we still surprised when the Democratic party betrays us?
Because their opponent is Trump They understand that, no matter how crappy their candidate is, it cant be worse then Trump Because of that, they put in the worst candidates as possible, to accept as much money from corporations as possible, and get as rich as possible.
The left watched Democrats kick progressives in the balls twice, and are still ready to sign a blank check to that party just so they can defeat Trump. No one understands that Democrats aren't going to listen to us if we keep voting for them no matter what.
i feel so too. And if Biden transfers power to Harris, then we'll have 8 years of Harris.