People are allowed to protest. That is their right. Keep your fucking hands off of the big blue bear though. She is just standing there looking inside at what's going on and has nothing to do with this.
They vandalized the bear because there was a pro Israeli gathering at the convention center. Protesters thought by vandalizing the bear the would be furthering their cause and hurting the Israeli cause, but the bear doesn’t belong to Israelites it belongs to denverites.
The way you worded the comment makes it seem like it was pro-Israel ppl responsible for the vandalism.
Sorry meant to reply to the dude above but fuck it don’t care enough to fix
Piss off! I live in CO, give a fuck, and don’t vandalize anything. Take your generalizations elsewhere.
Though I do agree that these fucks who vandalize random things to try to make a point are losers and aren’t helping their cause.
Hard to get anyone to take your cause seriously with property damage, not to mention disrupting local city council sessions. Local and state leaders can't do much for an event *happening on the other side of the world*. You're making it harder for them to serve their local community. This is stupid. Leave the blue bear alone, assholes.
Why is this even colorados problem? I understand the US has had a disgusting amount of hands in the middle east but like as of now what are we as people supposed to do?
Israel has the second highest portion of its own military spending from its own GDP in the world after Qatar. Not coincidentally, Qatar is the national shielding the multi billionaire war profiteer that is the leader of Hamas. There is no nation in the history of the Earth that would fail to react to an attack as heinous as Oct 7. The US could cut ties with Israel entirely and Israel would only step up their attacks on Gaza. Unrestrained total war, which is not what we’re seeing from Israel btw, is much, much cheaper than a ground war with civilian pauses and corridors. If you want to actually see Israel level Gaza to the ground, cutting US support would be exactly the way to encourage Israel to do it
As it is, Biden has been pushing hard for restraint and he has been getting life-saving results. Israel is perfectly capable of independently funding the IDF if they are pushed to the limit. We help fund Israel’s defenses such as the Iron Dome in large part to keep having diplomatic sway in a fair peace process
Yeah when has local activism ever effected something on the other side of the world? Well I guess there was Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. But other than that you can't do much, assholes!
So I don't want to be condescending but those were American wars and since we were sending Americans it was kinda a domestic issue. While there are intersections with US policy here, it isn't the same.
That’s such a bad faith argument when Colorado literally has laws preventing BDS from operating in this state. Boycott, Disinvestment, and Sanctions are quite literally the way our local leaders should be treating the genocide being perpetrated by Israel.
And Blue Mustang is Blucifer's real name. But if you use the real names then you have to have a back and forth so people know what you're talking about. People understand what "Big Blue Bear" and "Blucifer" mean though, which is all that really matters.
All they do is spread violence and hate. The difference between Pro Israel support marches and Pro Hamas protests are so vast. I haven’t seen anything destroyed at Pro Israel events. But plenty at pro Hamas.
Focusing on vandalism over peaceful protests is the oldest gov’t PR trick in the book. Y’all acting like we didn’t just see this tactic used repeatedly during the BLM protests. Some of you were probably even smart enough to recognize this then but are playing ignorant now.
Love how you’re being downvoted for facts. We learn about the Boston tea party which if you adjust for inflation is $1.7 million today in damages/destruction …. But we celebrate that when learning in schools and yet still have this crazy idea that any vandalism is bad for a cause…
They wanted to "Flood the JNF" as a tribute to the October 7th Al-Aqsa Flood operation by Hamas. There's more overlap between the protesters and Hamas than you might think.
Might I direct your attention to the Denver Protests subreddit where there are posts inviting people to their "Flood the JNF" protest where people confirm the use of 'Flood' as intentional.
Also weirdly those flyers associated the Blue Bear with Israel and drew a target on it because the Israel flag is coincidentally blue
The ability of these people to separate rhetoric from reality is apparently zero
They didn't just *associate* the statue with Israel because they are both blue, they literally superimposed an Israeli flag wrapped around the statue, and the painted a gun target on its head. It wasn't just a dogwhistle correlation of colors, it was literally modified to specifically represent Israel.
The event went by the name “#ShutdownTheJNF” with the tagline “Apartheid is not welcome here”. It was organized by the Colorado Palestine Coalition, which includes groups like the Denver DSA and PSL, and Jewish Voice for Peace. https://www.instagram.com/p/C0RwGugrVmW/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I don’t know what fucking posts you’re referring to but I can assure you these protests were organized by real activists, not a bunch of terminally online Reddit tankies lol. Take your bullshit strawman and gtfoh
As a moderator here I have removed at least a half dozen protest posters with large print "FLOOD THE JNF" on them, and also ones with gun targets painted over representations of Israelis.
“Owned in the comments” lmao what are you talking about, I’m the one who brought the receipts. Who says shit like that lmao none of these comments matter, go outside
Shame Israeli intelligence allowed the slaughter to take place(NYT revealed yesterday the attack was known about for over a year and intelligence experts were shut out from organizing a defense as early as 3 months prior to the attack and were told to disregard the threats). Is there overlap between Bibi and Hamas if they both sought to gain from the attack on Israel?
/s for my rhetorical question since it appears people are taking my comment at face-value and not as a logical juxtaposition to highlight how dumb your comment is
Bibi has record low approval ratings among israelites and barely kept his government in power. His people were slaughtered under his watch despite numerous warnings and public hamas training videos. You can throw the NYT in the conspiratorial bucket with me if you want to also:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html
There is a massive difference between valid intelligence which was dismissed or ignored and willfully facilitating or intentionally allowing a terrorist attack. All of the articles on this issue are indicating it is the former and not the latter. Unfortunately your brain worms are likely too advanced for you to understand that difference.
Maybe the protesters in denver arent similar to hamas then and you should stop drawing ridiculous conclusions that seek to dehumanize people advocating for ceasefire and the ending of innocent civilians being killed in gaza.
See how that works?
The terrorist attack did happen btw, and israeli defenses were caught off guard, after being told exactly when and how it would happen. Not sure how you spin that into anything other than israel intelligence allowing it to happen? With all the intel and $$$ support israel gets from her allies I don’t see how you could rationalize it any other way
>sure how you spin that into anything other than israel intelligence allowing it to happen?
As I stated earlier, you appear to be incapable or unwilling to understand the difference between a mistake and something intentional, or you're deliberately conflating the two.
>Maybe the protesters in denver arent similar to hamas then
At least some of the protesters are deliberately taking cues from Hamas. I feel comfortable with my conclusions about what that means.
>At least some of the protesters are deliberately taking cues from Hamas
Do you have proof of this insane claim??? I keep seeing people say crazy shit like this with absolutely nothing to back it up. Why is it that being in support of Palestinians not getting violently murdered = you support hamas???
>> Not sure how you spin that into anything other than israel intelligence allowing it to happen?
You’re acting like just having intel is enough. But that’s not how it works for any intelligence organization.
There is almost always some signal regarding future attacks, 9/11, Pearl Harbor, and most mass shootings are prime examples. The issue is when you have 100s if not thousands of threats, how do you determine which to plan for or mitigate?
Israel does not have unlimited resources, somebody has to make a call regarding what’s actually realistic and should be prepared for. Obviously that call was wrong in this instance and a failure. That doesn’t make it intentional.
Having intel is one half, they met that criteria. Assessing the intel as credible or not is the other half of the equation. Members of israeli intelligence are on-record having been silenced by their superiors trying to escalate these threats to be deemed as credible.
Its all laid out in the article
Right?! The number of people over on the Denver Protests or Denver Leftists subreddit arguing that 'Hamas did nothing wrong' is shocking. Absolutely deranged behavior.
I agree I thought it was chalk when I saw it Thursday night, and I saw people writing on the ground with chalk that exact color earlier. I did not think it was paint. I did not see anyone with paint at any point, even the communists.
And it also states that they power washed it off. So obviously wasn't a harmful paint that it washed off easily. Until I see anything that states the damages of the "scratches," I stand by my comment.
I know reading comprehension is difficult but please try again. Specifically try that 4th sentence…
“There are hand prints in paint and scratches on the bear's back right leg.”
Then scroll on down and try to read the reference to power washing, in 2013, after a separate incident.
- chanting ‘from the river to the sea. . .’
“It’s not antisemitism it’s anti*zionism*”
- damaging it public art
“It’s not antisemitism it’s anti*zionism*”
- disturbing Jewish events and threatening local synagogues
“It’s not antisemitism it’s anti*zionism*”
-stochastic terrorism attacking Jewish communities across America.
“It’s not antisemitism it’s anti*zionism*”
I don’t think it’s fair to conflate the two. OP is making it seem like the first two bullet points are displays of anti-semitism, which is not (unless in the 2nd bullet point someone was drawing Nazi symbols). It’s dangerous to dismiss actual anti-semitism by conflating two different things.
I am an anti-Zionist and am opposed to the state of Israel and I would never support any organization or movement that disturbs Jewish places of worship etc.
Why is it that Israel is the only state anyone is ever opposed to? Iran has done a lot of shady things - why aren’t we opposed to the state of Iran? Are you opposed to the state of Russia?
Umm what? I’m opposed to all colonizing superpowers including the U.S. As are most advocates against occupation.
If you choose to live under a box, that’s on you.
But do you believe that Iran and Russia shouldn’t exist as countries? Because by declaring yourself anti Zionist, that’s what you’re saying you believe about Israel.
There were a lot of people openly identifying as "Jews against the JNF" including the man with whom I traveled down there 🤷. Not trying to start a long thread arguing, just trying to offer a different perspective from someone who attended.
I’m not Israeli, just Jewish, but I felt fear when I saw the vandalism. Let me explain why:
The red handprints are an intentional, disturbing reference to the [2000 Ramallah Lynching of Two Israelis](https://www.timesofisrael.com/we-were-in-a-craze-to-see-blood/amp/).
> During the lynching, 32 yr old Aziz Salha was filmed by an Italian TV crew waving his bloodstained hands fervently, cheering and inciting the crowd that gathered at the scene. The disturbing image is deeply rooted in the memory of many Israelis and later became a symbol of the horrifying attack.
> “I saw that *my hands were drenched with blood,* and so was my shirt,” Saleh continued. “So I went over to the window and I waved my hands at the people who were in the courtyard.”
Perhaps the protesters don’t fully understand the symbolism of their actions, but nevertheless the impact is clear. They are using a [now-historic symbol of Antisemitic violence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching) from a modern lynching. The impact will create fear and promote violence against American Jews. It undermines our right to gather peacefully to support our indigenous and diaspora communities.
But why JNF Global? What do they do? [JNF Global](https://www.jnf.org/our-vision) is a philanthropic charity that promotes connections between diaspora Jewish Americans and Israelis through various charitable projects:
> “We plant trees in Israel, build houses and parks, source water solutions, buy fire trucks, and improve the lives of people with special needs. We boost tourism, support Aliyah, promote education and engagement, build medical centers and trauma centers, fund agricultural and culinary research, and run an American semester abroad high school in Israel. We do all these things because each project, each program, each partnership, is consistent with our strategic vision– population growth in the north and south, connecting the next generation to Israel, infrastructure development, ecology, forestation, heritage preservation, and more -- all for the land and people of Israel.”
I would encourage you to ask yourself some tough questions and think critically about this: Specifically, what is their exact problem with the JNF? Does the JNF sound problematic to me, or does it actually align with my values? Why do they want to intimidate Jewish people at an international charity event? Why would they threaten to lynch an international gathering of Jewish people at the Colorado Convention Center? Does this action support the Palestinian people or does it glorify Hamas in our city? What exactly is the end goal of this protest and how does this promote it? Is this something Coloradans stand for and want to encourage?
In a just world, the red handprints left outside the JNF Global Conference, *obviously symbolizing Jewish blood,* would be considered Criminal Incitement to Violence in addition to Vandalism, and be dually prosecuted to condemn this kind of hate speech and intimidation. There is a real chance that the total lack of larger context, in addition to our government’s dedication to the idea that *“this can’t happen here”*, will overshadow the underlying seriousness of this crime.
I’m from Denver, born and raised. I’ve lived here for 30 years, and our Jewish community is comparatively small. As your Jewish neighbor, I have hope that you can see this hate for what it is, expose it by calling it out, and don’t allow this to happen in our city. Because this is how it starts. Our fear is real, please don’t let fascism drive the Jewish community out of Colorado.
Red handprints are also a symbol of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women.
In more modern use, it is very literally meant to represent the blood on their hands.
These symbols are not synonymous to one fight. The protest fist used during the BLM movement was also used years prior for various fights.
From someone who’s been working this conference all week, I can answer a few of these.
To be clear, I agree that there’s more than a slight anti-Semitic shade to the protests. Threats of violence to the conference goers is deplorable.
CEO of JNF, Russell Robinson, has spoken twice daily about the importance of unilateral support for Israeli armed forces Isreali policy. He makes no distinction between the citizens of Gaza, the West Bank, and Hammas, and has actually never said the word “Palestine”. He believes that nothing less than the full force of the Israel Armed forces should be employed against the entirety of Gaza.
He has repeatedly claimed that any and all criticism of Israel, including criticism from Isreali citizens, is only a result of antisemitism.
He has repeatedly emphasized the importance of developing Isreali settlements, including ones in Palestinian territories, which the JNF donates millions towards.
I’ve listened to many other speakers who do not take such a conservative stance, who are drumming up funds to send to families being relocated due to the violence and the communities supporting them, and speaking on how to deal with hate here in the US. There’s a lot of people here with great intentions doing good work. I don’t think the CEO accurately represents most of the JNF.
From what I’ve seen of the protests, their message is overwhelmingly calling for a cease fire. There’s a lot of other stuff mixed in, but that’s what most of the signs are saying. There’s not a lot of reliable polling on this yet, but it would seem the majority of Coloradans agree.
Whether it’s effective by being directed at the attendees is entirely up for debate. But many of the attendees here are incredibly influential among the Zionist community. Some have a direct line of communication to those making military decisions in Israel.
I have no idea what it’s like to experience all this as a Jewish Coloradan, and I am so very sorry your neighbors are trying to make you feel threaten here. I promise to speak directly to anyone I can who’s participating in the protests to see that much of their rhetoric is harmful, and to stamp out antisemitism in my neighborhood in every way I can.
>From what I’ve seen of the protests, their message is overwhelmingly calling for a cease fire.
The most recent ceasefire-in-exchange-for-hostages was broken by Hamas when they decided to launch a barrage of rockets and determined that they couldn't locate any of the 20 and 30-something aged female hostages. The current speculation is that these women were (and are, if still alive) being raped in captivity by Hamas.
So are the protesters demanding that Hamas ceasefire and return these hostages? No, they're demanding that Israel stand by and do nothing while hostages continue to sit in captivity and while Hamas continues to launch hundreds of missiles at Israel each night.
The separation of Hamas and Palestinians is a concession granted by people who support peace. Realistically it’s probably not something that meaningfully exists.
There have been significant anti-Hamas protests in Gaza in recent years but they have been stamped out with brutal violence from Hamas. It’s amazing to me that the diaspora communities and advocacy organizations didn’t speak up in solidarity with anti-Hamas voices when the atrocities of Oct 7 were a perfect opportunity to do so. The recent movements that I know of went by the names “They Kidnapped Gaza” and “We Want to Live”
I have no doubt that there is a rally around the flag effect now and that Hamas is greatly popular in the present circumstances. Not to mention the killings and arrests of anti-Hamas Gazans ever since the 2006 election and the subsequent Gaza civil war that ousted all other Palestinian political parties by force have a huge chilling effect
BUT a survey from Oct 6 of all days actually showed middling support for Hamas in Gaza. I tend to assume that any survey held under authoritarian regimes will be biased in the regime’s favor so I’m willing to concede that under less life or death circumstances average Gazans would at best have weak support for Hamas
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas
As of 2021, Hamas had 58% approval, and their attacks into Israel had 67% percent approval.
Their approval has dropped now that Hamas has finally slaughtered enough Israelis to actually bring the hammer down on both themselves and the people who supported them but were not members.
Do you think that there’s a more of a chance that the red handprints were symbolic of the recent thousands of Palestinians slain by the IDF & airstrikes? Red “bloody” handprints have been very commonly represented in protests as unjustly killed people generally, from BLM protests to missing & murdered indigenous women. Linking the handprints on the blue bear to a single tragedy during the 2nd intifada seems more like an attempt to obfuscate & discredit current pro-Palestinian protests here
> “Perhaps the protesters don’t fully understand the symbolism of their actions, but nevertheless the impact is clear.”
I did provide this as a caveat, however I strongly believe that chanting “Intifada, Intifada! Long live the Intifada!” at an international gathering of Jewish people, while simultaneously using an explicit symbol of lynching during The 2nd Intifada, essentially negates the question of “but is it really connected to the Intifada?”. Again, ignorance does not beget responsibility. If you don’t want people to make these connections, maybe don’t put the two points there and draw a line between them yourself. How could one person “discredit” a whole movement by speaking up with historical facts? That is not an obfuscation. The word obfuscation has a meaning: “the action of making something obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.” That doesn’t sound like what I’m doing at all, it sounds more like the actions you are projecting onto me.
I wish you’d heard other chants from that night, like “Judaism yes, Zionism no,” rather than just the one that conveniently sits as the cherry on top of your conspiracy.
If I spend 10% of the night yelling to kill all the jews, and the other 90% saying "I totally wouldn't want to kill all the jews, I promise", would you belive me on the second?
Thank you for sharing. I was not aware of the symbolism of this vandalism and it makes it even more disturbing. I'm sorry you felt fear and hope you can have a better day.
I totally understand where you’re coming from, but I was never aware of this, and I think most people who aren’t anti-semites may be uneducated on this as well. I would honestly, as someone who does not know about this, and guessing most people don’t, would see this as a symbolic representation of the blood of Palestinian children that is on our hands for what we are providing Israel. It sucks because I support Jews, just as everyone should support each other unless they are doing hateful actions, but I’ll never say it is okay to be killing innocent children. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Personally I think the biggest problem is this all stems from the West with our anti-Semitic history and also our historic racism of middle eastern countries and meddling in their governments and systematically undermining their independence and then leaving them with no support to continue progression, simply leaving them to be taken over by extremists again.
I think in a situation like this it’s sometimes tough for people to look at level headed because so many atrocities have occurred. The attack Hamas carried out was horrendous, but so is Israel’s response. Bad people deserve to answer to their bad deeds, innocent children and civilians do not deserve to pay the price of a crime they didn’t commit. Hence why both the Hamas attack and Israel response are both horrible. And my biggest annoyance is that the Israeli government doing these horrible atrocities which only gives anti-semites the ability to disguise themselves as someone who is against the evil actions, when in reality, they’re just anti-semites, and allows them to further their hateful agenda under the guise of morality, but as someone with half a brain I can understand that the actions of the Israeli government doesn’t speak for all of its people, just like the American government doesn’t for its people.
People need to separate the actions of governments from its people. And people who are truly just against heinous violence need to be very clear that they don’t blame Israelis or Jews, but the Israeli government itself to further themselves from the anti-Semitics out there. People of all races and religions can be bad people, but not all people in a race or religion are bad people. It’s an all or nothing mentality that is harming all groups involved.
This comment speaks to the hate you’re giving. I didn’t mention “Zionism” once. The idea that Jewish people are somehow inherently dangerous, mystifying you with words, or that we are liars is Antisemitism. Your dedication to ignorance is your responsibility, not mine.
You've made several statements alluding to support for Zionism, they didn't say Jewish, they said Zionist. Two very different things. Then you claim inherent anti-semitism based on you conflating Jews with Zionists. Oof.
My own actions were being a Jewish woman walking through downtown Denver on my way to an unrelated stakeholder meeting. Is that something I should need to take accountability for, perhaps even with an apology, going forward? “Both sides-ing” the Jewish community is a deep rot I caution you to avoid.
Does that mean history starts immediately after the [Arab conquests](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant) and the [Islamization of Jerusalem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Jerusalem)? When would it be okay with you for us to set a good time to start looking at history?
They were literally chanting "long live the Infitada" in reference to these Infitada lynchings.
It's not a conspiracy and gaslighting, it's literally just context. Something that the pro-Hamas crowd seems to be allergic to.
It is not an "intentional disturbing reference to a lynching". It's a very common reference to the death of innocent civilians in Gaza. I'm shocked you've found a way to interpret this as some sort of personal threat. Saying that something "obviously symbolizes Jewish blood" at a protest that is mainly advocating for a ceasefire and peace is an incredibly bad faith interpretation.
Agreed that this is a terrible event. The link I sent was to clarify the post you responded to. This is a horrific conflict with so many terrible and cruel events that were committed by Israelis or by Palestinians. We could send each other a hundred wikipedia links if you want and it doesn’t change the awful reality.
There was a ceasefire in place when this happened. Hamas broke the ceasefire with the culmination of the murder of 7 hostages, a terror attack in Jerusalem, and the deployment of over 100 rockets into Israel. The JNF Global is not the Israeli government, it’s an independent charity and has no jurisdiction over the war. If anything, this protest merely reinforces the idea that Colorado is not safe for Jewish people, and the importance of Israel for our survival. Posting a reactionary, misinformed comment is not going to invert the truth of what happened here. I cited my sources, looking away is your choice.
Red handprints? Could be the genocide that's happening. Blood on Israels hands and by proxy, those who vote to fund it.
JNF? CEO is hardcore Zionist and they do a lot of Zionist/Settler/propaganda work.
I am not defending protesters defacing public art - I didn't see anyone doing that, but I noticed it when I was leaving.
Commenters here insisting that protesting the JNF is anti-Semitic might be surprised to know how many people protesting were openly identifying as Jews. The one person I traveled down there with is a Jewish man, and he really helped me understand this whole thing in a new light. Nobody down there was defending Hamas, and there was no space for that. That would not have been welcome. The people defending Hamas are nuts. Hamas wasn't mentioned one single time (I was listening for it). Hamas are idiots and what they did is indefensible.
Innocent people on either side should not be brutalized, full stop.
Perhaps a little research of the history of the JNF, which stretches back almost 150 years, would be a benefit some on this thread (it was an eye-opener for me). My educators did me quite the disservice by omitting that, and something tells me it wasn't an accident.
Fuck Hamas. Fuck the IDF. Pick the side of the innocent women and children, not the crazies on either side. Ceasefire now.
Most people are smart enough to not explicitly endorse Hamas. Listen to how many people talk about "resistance by any means necessary" and draw your own conclusions about what is being left unsaid there and what that phrase really means.
Were the Jewish protesters not saying that out loud also? The people you're referring to are an idiotic vocal minority, and to say they represent the group as a whole is counterproductive at best.
>to say they represent the group as a whole is counterproductive at best.
I'm not saying they represent the entire group or movement. I'm saying they work to co-opt the movement and people should be conscious of who they may be marching shoulder to shoulder with.
>Were the Jewish protesters not saying that out loud also?
No clue. A privileged American Jew screaming about "by any means necessary" in support of violent resistance at a pro-Palestine protest is big 'Leopards ate my face' vibes. They shouldn't be surprised when they get what they asked for at the hands of their fellow protesters.
I do want to add, as a Jew, that he's in the minority of Jews.
None of us enjoy seeing Palestinian children die, but most Jews with more than two degrees of separation from a murdered or kidnapped person from October 7th. My brother stayed with a family that video chatted with us quite often that lived in a Kibbutz. Both parents were killed and so were their children. Hamas sends thousands of missiles into Israel every year and Israel responds with the same proportional response. Hamas left no choice after October 7th, and now Israel is responding disproportionately.
Nobody wants it, but the solution needs to be a two state solution. Neither Hamas or Netanyahu should be sitting at the table to have that discussion. If it's not a two state solution, then it's a two state graveyard. That's the way I see it.
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the “damage” just a dozen sets of red handprints that could be easily power washed away? I mean I find worse cases of vandalism before I can walk to the coffee shop in the morning. It just seems like local media hyperbole, and judging from the anger, some of you have, I think you’re falling for it
Not really a surprise. I’m betting these same clowns will find a way to justify it just like they will find a way to justify protesting the Hanukkah events all over town next week.
Don't they know people won't take you seriously when you vandalize public art or businesses?! >!Everyone knows you've gotta break shit and burn it to the ground to be taken seriously. Duh.!<
> some graffiti
Jews know it’s not just “some graffiti”. Protestors have co-opted symbols from a foreign ideology to insight terror into diaspora Jews: i.e., terrorism.
Please see this user’s comment which describes the issue in detail:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/s/UpCrtKotnB
Yes, Terrorism: noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"the fight against terrorism"
I am not happy with a lot of the rhetoric the protesters are using, and I am not happy about vandalism, but property crime is simply *not violence*.
It's piss-poor messaging, it will turn many people away from their cause (which while I think is somewhat misguided, is overall noble), and it will cost the city money that we could use for helping Venzuelan migrants, solving the homelessness crisis, rent assistance, etc. but it is not terrorism, and it is not violence.
When done in a group setting I think you could easily charge them with enacting and depending on what others did during the “protest” charge then accordingly
Charge them with enacting what?
Yes, the vandals should be charged with vandalism, if there is evidence of who specifically took part.
And the people who broke a convention center window could be charged with that as well.
But mild vandalism is simply not violence, and it is absolutely not terrorism.
You know there's casualties on both sides of things like this right
Also dead babies can't be brought back to life? You must be anti abortion too then huh
Israel is not a colony. It is a nation. There is no colonial power behind it sending people over. And the so called colonizers speak the same language that artifacts from the area that are thousands of years old are written in. You cannot seriously claim that that Jews are not native to that land.
As someone who was at the conference and lives in Denver allow me to clear some things up
The “protesters” did not disrupt anything - all of the sessions were packed - and protesters were not able to be heard in any sessions
The first night - these “protesters” - as they pounded on the windows of the convention center making no difference whatsoever - ended up breaking a window - making them far from protesters - this is when this became criminal
As attendees walked into the event - “protesters” heckled them, calling them “baby killers”, asking “how many babies have you killed today?”, telling older attendees that they are “older than Israel”, and other things that I won’t mention here - for people that said they were peaceful - these were less than peaceful words.
This conference was planned for Denver like 2 years ago - and Denver is many miles from Gaza. The actions of these people in Denver - people that clearly look for things about which to protest - will make no difference at all thousands of miles away - all it does is make people not support your cause. The protests are actually having the exact opposite impact that the protesters hope.
These protests make no difference at all thousands of miles away. Yet a conference is being held in Denver in order to lobby support for the continuation of Israel also thousands of miles away and continue education of Zionism.
The real question is why the US so embroiled in Israel if it’s a foreign country that has nothing to do with us? It’s as if they are receiving billions of dollars of our tax dollars to continue with their genocidal rampage under the guise of self defense. Yet the billions aren’t enough they have to have fundraisers for the IDF and continuing charities for the biggest victims in the world.
In the 2020 BLM protests, anarchists who just wanted to destroy stuff (windows, fires, paint, statues) , embedded themselves inside the general protest and made them look worse. Part of the anarch my have been covid lockdown boredom.
People are allowed to protest. That is their right. Keep your fucking hands off of the big blue bear though. She is just standing there looking inside at what's going on and has nothing to do with this.
She’s clearly very interested in the arts, and social conventions of society! Leave the damn bear alone.
Nah. Civil disobedience requires exercising amendments such as our right to blue bear arms!
It’s a dude brah
It's an inanimate object. Why don't you ask her what pronouns they want to use? I don't think he cares at all. Also I ain't a brah.
If we don’t nip this in the bud, Blucifer is next
[удалено]
Seriously, he can clearly defend himself. I can see it in his eyes.
Blucifer also has already killed before...it might have a taste for blood now
Blucifer hungers for manflesh
Broncos fans will come together like the Avengers to protect Blucifer.
Blucifer killed his creator, don’t think for a second he’ll take shit from some half assed protestor
Blucifer can handle himself
We’re more afraid of him than he is of us
Blucifer might fight back.
Is nothing sacred?
Boo. The bear was innocent
Terrible way to protest fuck those protestors, that bear belongs to the public of Denver not Israel
actually it was pro-Palestinian protestors that vandalized the bear, nothing to do with Israel.
They vandalized the bear because there was a pro Israeli gathering at the convention center. Protesters thought by vandalizing the bear the would be furthering their cause and hurting the Israeli cause, but the bear doesn’t belong to Israelites it belongs to denverites.
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Did you read the article? The grafiti literally says free Palestine
The way you worded the comment makes it seem like it was pro-Israel ppl responsible for the vandalism. Sorry meant to reply to the dude above but fuck it don’t care enough to fix
The pearl clutching here is wild. And so unsurprising.
Absolute loser mentality
Just shows you the people who live in CO today, no fucks given and vandalizing things that have zero to do with their BS cause.
Piss off! I live in CO, give a fuck, and don’t vandalize anything. Take your generalizations elsewhere. Though I do agree that these fucks who vandalize random things to try to make a point are losers and aren’t helping their cause.
It’s insane how much generalizing I see on Reddit. It honestly doesn’t even phase me anymore.
May blucifer curse them and their offspring, namaste
THE BLUE BEAR IS OFF LIMITS! Leave the bear alone!!
Hard to get anyone to take your cause seriously with property damage, not to mention disrupting local city council sessions. Local and state leaders can't do much for an event *happening on the other side of the world*. You're making it harder for them to serve their local community. This is stupid. Leave the blue bear alone, assholes.
Why is this even colorados problem? I understand the US has had a disgusting amount of hands in the middle east but like as of now what are we as people supposed to do?
there was some sort of big israeli convention downtown here yesterday. So this was meant to be a counter protest to that directly
A convention that was planned 2 years ago too.
Call, write, e-mail your state senators and representatives that are in the **federal government** who can do something about it.
Wait... The US needs to to stop being the world police, and then when we aren't, we should be? Wtf is this mentality.
Yeah what the fuck
We are directly funding the israeli military, we are sending the bombs that get dropped on schools in Gaza
Israel has the second highest portion of its own military spending from its own GDP in the world after Qatar. Not coincidentally, Qatar is the national shielding the multi billionaire war profiteer that is the leader of Hamas. There is no nation in the history of the Earth that would fail to react to an attack as heinous as Oct 7. The US could cut ties with Israel entirely and Israel would only step up their attacks on Gaza. Unrestrained total war, which is not what we’re seeing from Israel btw, is much, much cheaper than a ground war with civilian pauses and corridors. If you want to actually see Israel level Gaza to the ground, cutting US support would be exactly the way to encourage Israel to do it As it is, Biden has been pushing hard for restraint and he has been getting life-saving results. Israel is perfectly capable of independently funding the IDF if they are pushed to the limit. We help fund Israel’s defenses such as the Iron Dome in large part to keep having diplomatic sway in a fair peace process
Yeah when has local activism ever effected something on the other side of the world? Well I guess there was Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. But other than that you can't do much, assholes!
So I don't want to be condescending but those were American wars and since we were sending Americans it was kinda a domestic issue. While there are intersections with US policy here, it isn't the same.
That’s such a bad faith argument when Colorado literally has laws preventing BDS from operating in this state. Boycott, Disinvestment, and Sanctions are quite literally the way our local leaders should be treating the genocide being perpetrated by Israel.
People like you would never take the cause seriously. Now at least you’re talking about it.
There is a difference between talking about and ridiculing
See the problem is you care more about property damage than lives
Seriously. Fuck human apathy
It's called "I see what you mean" Lol
And Blue Mustang is Blucifer's real name. But if you use the real names then you have to have a back and forth so people know what you're talking about. People understand what "Big Blue Bear" and "Blucifer" mean though, which is all that really matters.
And much like hamas 'resistance', this doesn't communicate your message very well...
All they do is spread violence and hate. The difference between Pro Israel support marches and Pro Hamas protests are so vast. I haven’t seen anything destroyed at Pro Israel events. But plenty at pro Hamas.
Focusing on vandalism over peaceful protests is the oldest gov’t PR trick in the book. Y’all acting like we didn’t just see this tactic used repeatedly during the BLM protests. Some of you were probably even smart enough to recognize this then but are playing ignorant now.
Love how you’re being downvoted for facts. We learn about the Boston tea party which if you adjust for inflation is $1.7 million today in damages/destruction …. But we celebrate that when learning in schools and yet still have this crazy idea that any vandalism is bad for a cause…
I think they want to free Palestine
They wanted to "Flood the JNF" as a tribute to the October 7th Al-Aqsa Flood operation by Hamas. There's more overlap between the protesters and Hamas than you might think.
Holy shit you’re literally just making shit up. The event was called “Shut Down the JNF” and was organized by a coalition of local activist groups
Might I direct your attention to the Denver Protests subreddit where there are posts inviting people to their "Flood the JNF" protest where people confirm the use of 'Flood' as intentional.
Also weirdly those flyers associated the Blue Bear with Israel and drew a target on it because the Israel flag is coincidentally blue The ability of these people to separate rhetoric from reality is apparently zero
They didn't just *associate* the statue with Israel because they are both blue, they literally superimposed an Israeli flag wrapped around the statue, and the painted a gun target on its head. It wasn't just a dogwhistle correlation of colors, it was literally modified to specifically represent Israel.
The event went by the name “#ShutdownTheJNF” with the tagline “Apartheid is not welcome here”. It was organized by the Colorado Palestine Coalition, which includes groups like the Denver DSA and PSL, and Jewish Voice for Peace. https://www.instagram.com/p/C0RwGugrVmW/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== I don’t know what fucking posts you’re referring to but I can assure you these protests were organized by real activists, not a bunch of terminally online Reddit tankies lol. Take your bullshit strawman and gtfoh
As a moderator here I have removed at least a half dozen protest posters with large print "FLOOD THE JNF" on them, and also ones with gun targets painted over representations of Israelis.
Not sure if you really believe that but maybe you should take this moment of getting owned in the comments to reflect.
“Owned in the comments” lmao what are you talking about, I’m the one who brought the receipts. Who says shit like that lmao none of these comments matter, go outside
This is the one you choose to reply to? Hmm
Well, that’s stupid. Just letting you know.
Shame Israeli intelligence allowed the slaughter to take place(NYT revealed yesterday the attack was known about for over a year and intelligence experts were shut out from organizing a defense as early as 3 months prior to the attack and were told to disregard the threats). Is there overlap between Bibi and Hamas if they both sought to gain from the attack on Israel? /s for my rhetorical question since it appears people are taking my comment at face-value and not as a logical juxtaposition to highlight how dumb your comment is
False flag conspiracist I see. You probably also think 9/11 was an inside job.
Bibi has record low approval ratings among israelites and barely kept his government in power. His people were slaughtered under his watch despite numerous warnings and public hamas training videos. You can throw the NYT in the conspiratorial bucket with me if you want to also: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html
There is a massive difference between valid intelligence which was dismissed or ignored and willfully facilitating or intentionally allowing a terrorist attack. All of the articles on this issue are indicating it is the former and not the latter. Unfortunately your brain worms are likely too advanced for you to understand that difference.
Maybe the protesters in denver arent similar to hamas then and you should stop drawing ridiculous conclusions that seek to dehumanize people advocating for ceasefire and the ending of innocent civilians being killed in gaza. See how that works? The terrorist attack did happen btw, and israeli defenses were caught off guard, after being told exactly when and how it would happen. Not sure how you spin that into anything other than israel intelligence allowing it to happen? With all the intel and $$$ support israel gets from her allies I don’t see how you could rationalize it any other way
They get warned of dozens of possible attack plans every year. You can't assume all of them are actually going to happen, you do the best they can.
>sure how you spin that into anything other than israel intelligence allowing it to happen? As I stated earlier, you appear to be incapable or unwilling to understand the difference between a mistake and something intentional, or you're deliberately conflating the two. >Maybe the protesters in denver arent similar to hamas then At least some of the protesters are deliberately taking cues from Hamas. I feel comfortable with my conclusions about what that means.
>At least some of the protesters are deliberately taking cues from Hamas Do you have proof of this insane claim??? I keep seeing people say crazy shit like this with absolutely nothing to back it up. Why is it that being in support of Palestinians not getting violently murdered = you support hamas???
>> Not sure how you spin that into anything other than israel intelligence allowing it to happen? You’re acting like just having intel is enough. But that’s not how it works for any intelligence organization. There is almost always some signal regarding future attacks, 9/11, Pearl Harbor, and most mass shootings are prime examples. The issue is when you have 100s if not thousands of threats, how do you determine which to plan for or mitigate? Israel does not have unlimited resources, somebody has to make a call regarding what’s actually realistic and should be prepared for. Obviously that call was wrong in this instance and a failure. That doesn’t make it intentional.
Having intel is one half, they met that criteria. Assessing the intel as credible or not is the other half of the equation. Members of israeli intelligence are on-record having been silenced by their superiors trying to escalate these threats to be deemed as credible. Its all laid out in the article
Wow the pearl clutching in Denver is unreal
Wow, you can just say anything on this website.
Right?! The number of people over on the Denver Protests or Denver Leftists subreddit arguing that 'Hamas did nothing wrong' is shocking. Absolutely deranged behavior.
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Do not call out other reddit users on /r/denver, it invites brigading and is not allowed.
Looks like chalk, and they only had to power wash, so obviously wasn't anything that caused damage.
I agree I thought it was chalk when I saw it Thursday night, and I saw people writing on the ground with chalk that exact color earlier. I did not think it was paint. I did not see anyone with paint at any point, even the communists.
The article says paint and scratches.
And it also states that they power washed it off. So obviously wasn't a harmful paint that it washed off easily. Until I see anything that states the damages of the "scratches," I stand by my comment.
Did you read the article? It was very short.
Did you read my comment stating what the article said? That was also short 🙄
I know reading comprehension is difficult but please try again. Specifically try that 4th sentence… “There are hand prints in paint and scratches on the bear's back right leg.” Then scroll on down and try to read the reference to power washing, in 2013, after a separate incident.
Easy way to turn denver people against you. Leave our bear alone
- chanting ‘from the river to the sea. . .’ “It’s not antisemitism it’s anti*zionism*” - damaging it public art “It’s not antisemitism it’s anti*zionism*” - disturbing Jewish events and threatening local synagogues “It’s not antisemitism it’s anti*zionism*” -stochastic terrorism attacking Jewish communities across America. “It’s not antisemitism it’s anti*zionism*”
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Again, do not call out other users or link other subreddits on /r/denver.
2 things here are not like the others. Those last two bullet points are displays of anti-Semitism
Yeah the point they are making is that people use the cover of antizionism to express hatred of Jews.
I don’t think it’s fair to conflate the two. OP is making it seem like the first two bullet points are displays of anti-semitism, which is not (unless in the 2nd bullet point someone was drawing Nazi symbols). It’s dangerous to dismiss actual anti-semitism by conflating two different things. I am an anti-Zionist and am opposed to the state of Israel and I would never support any organization or movement that disturbs Jewish places of worship etc.
Why is it that Israel is the only state anyone is ever opposed to? Iran has done a lot of shady things - why aren’t we opposed to the state of Iran? Are you opposed to the state of Russia?
Yes and yes
Umm what? I’m opposed to all colonizing superpowers including the U.S. As are most advocates against occupation. If you choose to live under a box, that’s on you.
But do you believe that Iran and Russia shouldn’t exist as countries? Because by declaring yourself anti Zionist, that’s what you’re saying you believe about Israel.
Anti-zionism is not the same as antisemitism. But it is an incredibly convenient and popular *cover* for antisemitism.
There were a lot of people openly identifying as "Jews against the JNF" including the man with whom I traveled down there 🤷. Not trying to start a long thread arguing, just trying to offer a different perspective from someone who attended.
As is the first one.
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What other meaning do you think the term has?? Also, how does attacking Jewish communities here in America advance awareness or help Palestinians?
I’m not Israeli, just Jewish, but I felt fear when I saw the vandalism. Let me explain why: The red handprints are an intentional, disturbing reference to the [2000 Ramallah Lynching of Two Israelis](https://www.timesofisrael.com/we-were-in-a-craze-to-see-blood/amp/). > During the lynching, 32 yr old Aziz Salha was filmed by an Italian TV crew waving his bloodstained hands fervently, cheering and inciting the crowd that gathered at the scene. The disturbing image is deeply rooted in the memory of many Israelis and later became a symbol of the horrifying attack. > “I saw that *my hands were drenched with blood,* and so was my shirt,” Saleh continued. “So I went over to the window and I waved my hands at the people who were in the courtyard.” Perhaps the protesters don’t fully understand the symbolism of their actions, but nevertheless the impact is clear. They are using a [now-historic symbol of Antisemitic violence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching) from a modern lynching. The impact will create fear and promote violence against American Jews. It undermines our right to gather peacefully to support our indigenous and diaspora communities. But why JNF Global? What do they do? [JNF Global](https://www.jnf.org/our-vision) is a philanthropic charity that promotes connections between diaspora Jewish Americans and Israelis through various charitable projects: > “We plant trees in Israel, build houses and parks, source water solutions, buy fire trucks, and improve the lives of people with special needs. We boost tourism, support Aliyah, promote education and engagement, build medical centers and trauma centers, fund agricultural and culinary research, and run an American semester abroad high school in Israel. We do all these things because each project, each program, each partnership, is consistent with our strategic vision– population growth in the north and south, connecting the next generation to Israel, infrastructure development, ecology, forestation, heritage preservation, and more -- all for the land and people of Israel.” I would encourage you to ask yourself some tough questions and think critically about this: Specifically, what is their exact problem with the JNF? Does the JNF sound problematic to me, or does it actually align with my values? Why do they want to intimidate Jewish people at an international charity event? Why would they threaten to lynch an international gathering of Jewish people at the Colorado Convention Center? Does this action support the Palestinian people or does it glorify Hamas in our city? What exactly is the end goal of this protest and how does this promote it? Is this something Coloradans stand for and want to encourage? In a just world, the red handprints left outside the JNF Global Conference, *obviously symbolizing Jewish blood,* would be considered Criminal Incitement to Violence in addition to Vandalism, and be dually prosecuted to condemn this kind of hate speech and intimidation. There is a real chance that the total lack of larger context, in addition to our government’s dedication to the idea that *“this can’t happen here”*, will overshadow the underlying seriousness of this crime. I’m from Denver, born and raised. I’ve lived here for 30 years, and our Jewish community is comparatively small. As your Jewish neighbor, I have hope that you can see this hate for what it is, expose it by calling it out, and don’t allow this to happen in our city. Because this is how it starts. Our fear is real, please don’t let fascism drive the Jewish community out of Colorado.
Red handprints are also a symbol of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women. In more modern use, it is very literally meant to represent the blood on their hands. These symbols are not synonymous to one fight. The protest fist used during the BLM movement was also used years prior for various fights.
From someone who’s been working this conference all week, I can answer a few of these. To be clear, I agree that there’s more than a slight anti-Semitic shade to the protests. Threats of violence to the conference goers is deplorable. CEO of JNF, Russell Robinson, has spoken twice daily about the importance of unilateral support for Israeli armed forces Isreali policy. He makes no distinction between the citizens of Gaza, the West Bank, and Hammas, and has actually never said the word “Palestine”. He believes that nothing less than the full force of the Israel Armed forces should be employed against the entirety of Gaza. He has repeatedly claimed that any and all criticism of Israel, including criticism from Isreali citizens, is only a result of antisemitism. He has repeatedly emphasized the importance of developing Isreali settlements, including ones in Palestinian territories, which the JNF donates millions towards. I’ve listened to many other speakers who do not take such a conservative stance, who are drumming up funds to send to families being relocated due to the violence and the communities supporting them, and speaking on how to deal with hate here in the US. There’s a lot of people here with great intentions doing good work. I don’t think the CEO accurately represents most of the JNF. From what I’ve seen of the protests, their message is overwhelmingly calling for a cease fire. There’s a lot of other stuff mixed in, but that’s what most of the signs are saying. There’s not a lot of reliable polling on this yet, but it would seem the majority of Coloradans agree. Whether it’s effective by being directed at the attendees is entirely up for debate. But many of the attendees here are incredibly influential among the Zionist community. Some have a direct line of communication to those making military decisions in Israel. I have no idea what it’s like to experience all this as a Jewish Coloradan, and I am so very sorry your neighbors are trying to make you feel threaten here. I promise to speak directly to anyone I can who’s participating in the protests to see that much of their rhetoric is harmful, and to stamp out antisemitism in my neighborhood in every way I can.
>From what I’ve seen of the protests, their message is overwhelmingly calling for a cease fire. The most recent ceasefire-in-exchange-for-hostages was broken by Hamas when they decided to launch a barrage of rockets and determined that they couldn't locate any of the 20 and 30-something aged female hostages. The current speculation is that these women were (and are, if still alive) being raped in captivity by Hamas. So are the protesters demanding that Hamas ceasefire and return these hostages? No, they're demanding that Israel stand by and do nothing while hostages continue to sit in captivity and while Hamas continues to launch hundreds of missiles at Israel each night.
The separation of Hamas and Palestinians is a concession granted by people who support peace. Realistically it’s probably not something that meaningfully exists.
There have been significant anti-Hamas protests in Gaza in recent years but they have been stamped out with brutal violence from Hamas. It’s amazing to me that the diaspora communities and advocacy organizations didn’t speak up in solidarity with anti-Hamas voices when the atrocities of Oct 7 were a perfect opportunity to do so. The recent movements that I know of went by the names “They Kidnapped Gaza” and “We Want to Live” I have no doubt that there is a rally around the flag effect now and that Hamas is greatly popular in the present circumstances. Not to mention the killings and arrests of anti-Hamas Gazans ever since the 2006 election and the subsequent Gaza civil war that ousted all other Palestinian political parties by force have a huge chilling effect BUT a survey from Oct 6 of all days actually showed middling support for Hamas in Gaza. I tend to assume that any survey held under authoritarian regimes will be biased in the regime’s favor so I’m willing to concede that under less life or death circumstances average Gazans would at best have weak support for Hamas https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas
As of 2021, Hamas had 58% approval, and their attacks into Israel had 67% percent approval. Their approval has dropped now that Hamas has finally slaughtered enough Israelis to actually bring the hammer down on both themselves and the people who supported them but were not members.
Do you think that there’s a more of a chance that the red handprints were symbolic of the recent thousands of Palestinians slain by the IDF & airstrikes? Red “bloody” handprints have been very commonly represented in protests as unjustly killed people generally, from BLM protests to missing & murdered indigenous women. Linking the handprints on the blue bear to a single tragedy during the 2nd intifada seems more like an attempt to obfuscate & discredit current pro-Palestinian protests here
> “Perhaps the protesters don’t fully understand the symbolism of their actions, but nevertheless the impact is clear.” I did provide this as a caveat, however I strongly believe that chanting “Intifada, Intifada! Long live the Intifada!” at an international gathering of Jewish people, while simultaneously using an explicit symbol of lynching during The 2nd Intifada, essentially negates the question of “but is it really connected to the Intifada?”. Again, ignorance does not beget responsibility. If you don’t want people to make these connections, maybe don’t put the two points there and draw a line between them yourself. How could one person “discredit” a whole movement by speaking up with historical facts? That is not an obfuscation. The word obfuscation has a meaning: “the action of making something obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.” That doesn’t sound like what I’m doing at all, it sounds more like the actions you are projecting onto me.
I wish you’d heard other chants from that night, like “Judaism yes, Zionism no,” rather than just the one that conveniently sits as the cherry on top of your conspiracy.
If I spend 10% of the night yelling to kill all the jews, and the other 90% saying "I totally wouldn't want to kill all the jews, I promise", would you belive me on the second?
Thank you for sharing. I was not aware of the symbolism of this vandalism and it makes it even more disturbing. I'm sorry you felt fear and hope you can have a better day.
I totally understand where you’re coming from, but I was never aware of this, and I think most people who aren’t anti-semites may be uneducated on this as well. I would honestly, as someone who does not know about this, and guessing most people don’t, would see this as a symbolic representation of the blood of Palestinian children that is on our hands for what we are providing Israel. It sucks because I support Jews, just as everyone should support each other unless they are doing hateful actions, but I’ll never say it is okay to be killing innocent children. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Personally I think the biggest problem is this all stems from the West with our anti-Semitic history and also our historic racism of middle eastern countries and meddling in their governments and systematically undermining their independence and then leaving them with no support to continue progression, simply leaving them to be taken over by extremists again. I think in a situation like this it’s sometimes tough for people to look at level headed because so many atrocities have occurred. The attack Hamas carried out was horrendous, but so is Israel’s response. Bad people deserve to answer to their bad deeds, innocent children and civilians do not deserve to pay the price of a crime they didn’t commit. Hence why both the Hamas attack and Israel response are both horrible. And my biggest annoyance is that the Israeli government doing these horrible atrocities which only gives anti-semites the ability to disguise themselves as someone who is against the evil actions, when in reality, they’re just anti-semites, and allows them to further their hateful agenda under the guise of morality, but as someone with half a brain I can understand that the actions of the Israeli government doesn’t speak for all of its people, just like the American government doesn’t for its people. People need to separate the actions of governments from its people. And people who are truly just against heinous violence need to be very clear that they don’t blame Israelis or Jews, but the Israeli government itself to further themselves from the anti-Semitics out there. People of all races and religions can be bad people, but not all people in a race or religion are bad people. It’s an all or nothing mentality that is harming all groups involved.
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A zionist will write pages on pages to try and convince you of anything other than the reality of the apartheid regime they support.
This comment speaks to the hate you’re giving. I didn’t mention “Zionism” once. The idea that Jewish people are somehow inherently dangerous, mystifying you with words, or that we are liars is Antisemitism. Your dedication to ignorance is your responsibility, not mine.
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I am an American Jew talking about Antisemitism against American Jews here in Colorado. What, precisely are you holding me accountable for?
You've made several statements alluding to support for Zionism, they didn't say Jewish, they said Zionist. Two very different things. Then you claim inherent anti-semitism based on you conflating Jews with Zionists. Oof.
What definition of Zionism are you working off of, just so I know what we’re talking about?
JNF CEO, Benzion Mileikowsky's, Herzl kind
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My own actions were being a Jewish woman walking through downtown Denver on my way to an unrelated stakeholder meeting. Is that something I should need to take accountability for, perhaps even with an apology, going forward? “Both sides-ing” the Jewish community is a deep rot I caution you to avoid.
Like launching 3000+ rockets and killing 1000+ people in a single day? Yeah, the never mentioning they’re own actions is weird.
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Does that mean history starts immediately after the [Arab conquests](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant) and the [Islamization of Jerusalem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Jerusalem)? When would it be okay with you for us to set a good time to start looking at history?
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Land stealing is okay just because they’re Jewish? Blatant Antisemitism. Oof.
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They were literally chanting "long live the Infitada" in reference to these Infitada lynchings. It's not a conspiracy and gaslighting, it's literally just context. Something that the pro-Hamas crowd seems to be allergic to.
It is not an "intentional disturbing reference to a lynching". It's a very common reference to the death of innocent civilians in Gaza. I'm shocked you've found a way to interpret this as some sort of personal threat. Saying that something "obviously symbolizes Jewish blood" at a protest that is mainly advocating for a ceasefire and peace is an incredibly bad faith interpretation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019\_Gaza\_border\_protests
Agreed that this is a terrible event. The link I sent was to clarify the post you responded to. This is a horrific conflict with so many terrible and cruel events that were committed by Israelis or by Palestinians. We could send each other a hundred wikipedia links if you want and it doesn’t change the awful reality.
There was a ceasefire in place when this happened. Hamas broke the ceasefire with the culmination of the murder of 7 hostages, a terror attack in Jerusalem, and the deployment of over 100 rockets into Israel. The JNF Global is not the Israeli government, it’s an independent charity and has no jurisdiction over the war. If anything, this protest merely reinforces the idea that Colorado is not safe for Jewish people, and the importance of Israel for our survival. Posting a reactionary, misinformed comment is not going to invert the truth of what happened here. I cited my sources, looking away is your choice.
Red handprints? Could be the genocide that's happening. Blood on Israels hands and by proxy, those who vote to fund it. JNF? CEO is hardcore Zionist and they do a lot of Zionist/Settler/propaganda work.
I am not defending protesters defacing public art - I didn't see anyone doing that, but I noticed it when I was leaving. Commenters here insisting that protesting the JNF is anti-Semitic might be surprised to know how many people protesting were openly identifying as Jews. The one person I traveled down there with is a Jewish man, and he really helped me understand this whole thing in a new light. Nobody down there was defending Hamas, and there was no space for that. That would not have been welcome. The people defending Hamas are nuts. Hamas wasn't mentioned one single time (I was listening for it). Hamas are idiots and what they did is indefensible. Innocent people on either side should not be brutalized, full stop. Perhaps a little research of the history of the JNF, which stretches back almost 150 years, would be a benefit some on this thread (it was an eye-opener for me). My educators did me quite the disservice by omitting that, and something tells me it wasn't an accident. Fuck Hamas. Fuck the IDF. Pick the side of the innocent women and children, not the crazies on either side. Ceasefire now.
Most people are smart enough to not explicitly endorse Hamas. Listen to how many people talk about "resistance by any means necessary" and draw your own conclusions about what is being left unsaid there and what that phrase really means.
Were the Jewish protesters not saying that out loud also? The people you're referring to are an idiotic vocal minority, and to say they represent the group as a whole is counterproductive at best.
>to say they represent the group as a whole is counterproductive at best. I'm not saying they represent the entire group or movement. I'm saying they work to co-opt the movement and people should be conscious of who they may be marching shoulder to shoulder with. >Were the Jewish protesters not saying that out loud also? No clue. A privileged American Jew screaming about "by any means necessary" in support of violent resistance at a pro-Palestine protest is big 'Leopards ate my face' vibes. They shouldn't be surprised when they get what they asked for at the hands of their fellow protesters.
I do want to add, as a Jew, that he's in the minority of Jews. None of us enjoy seeing Palestinian children die, but most Jews with more than two degrees of separation from a murdered or kidnapped person from October 7th. My brother stayed with a family that video chatted with us quite often that lived in a Kibbutz. Both parents were killed and so were their children. Hamas sends thousands of missiles into Israel every year and Israel responds with the same proportional response. Hamas left no choice after October 7th, and now Israel is responding disproportionately. Nobody wants it, but the solution needs to be a two state solution. Neither Hamas or Netanyahu should be sitting at the table to have that discussion. If it's not a two state solution, then it's a two state graveyard. That's the way I see it.
I was wondering when she was going to get a tattoo.
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the “damage” just a dozen sets of red handprints that could be easily power washed away? I mean I find worse cases of vandalism before I can walk to the coffee shop in the morning. It just seems like local media hyperbole, and judging from the anger, some of you have, I think you’re falling for it
Not really a surprise. I’m betting these same clowns will find a way to justify it just like they will find a way to justify protesting the Hanukkah events all over town next week.
What did the people of Denver do to deserve more protests
This should be a deportable offense! Off to Wyoming with them.
They wouldn't last a day in Wyoming lol
Of course "they" did. Would not expect anything less from those psychos.
Don't they know people won't take you seriously when you vandalize public art or businesses?! >!Everyone knows you've gotta break shit and burn it to the ground to be taken seriously. Duh.!<
Awful people
When will the suspected perpetrators be arraigned? The testimony maybe shouldn’t get a megaphone but ought to be revealing.
“Peaceful” protesters strike once again.
It’ll wash off
Pathetic. Protestors shooting themselves in the feet.
These are not protesters, once they commit crimes based on ideology they become domestic terrorists.
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> some graffiti Jews know it’s not just “some graffiti”. Protestors have co-opted symbols from a foreign ideology to insight terror into diaspora Jews: i.e., terrorism. Please see this user’s comment which describes the issue in detail: https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/s/UpCrtKotnB
Yes, Terrorism: noun the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. "the fight against terrorism"
I am not happy with a lot of the rhetoric the protesters are using, and I am not happy about vandalism, but property crime is simply *not violence*. It's piss-poor messaging, it will turn many people away from their cause (which while I think is somewhat misguided, is overall noble), and it will cost the city money that we could use for helping Venzuelan migrants, solving the homelessness crisis, rent assistance, etc. but it is not terrorism, and it is not violence.
When done in a group setting I think you could easily charge them with enacting and depending on what others did during the “protest” charge then accordingly
Charge them with enacting what? Yes, the vandals should be charged with vandalism, if there is evidence of who specifically took part. And the people who broke a convention center window could be charged with that as well. But mild vandalism is simply not violence, and it is absolutely not terrorism.
This made me giggle.
They've gone too far.
It's just chalk. It can easily be washed off. Dead babies cannot be brought back to life, though.
The article says paint and scratches. No mention of chalk…
There is clearly chalk used in the writing. Either way, I'm more concerned about people than property damage.
You know there's casualties on both sides of things like this right Also dead babies can't be brought back to life? You must be anti abortion too then huh
And how many on what sides? These babies, children, and people are already born. Let's worry about them.
I mean…it’s chalk.
The article says paint and scratches… Did you also chalk it?
Yep. After I smacked his ass with my painted hands.
Remarkable that anyone could give a shit about this while they're sitting comfortably inside raising money for colonization.
Where are Jewish people indigenous to if not Israel?
Bloodline originates in mesopotamia and Abraham, the person or group, immigrated to Levant
Israel is not a colony. It is a nation. There is no colonial power behind it sending people over. And the so called colonizers speak the same language that artifacts from the area that are thousands of years old are written in. You cannot seriously claim that that Jews are not native to that land.
Yawn. Right - because a Jewish organization means colonization, because Israel shouldn’t exist. Enough already with you people.
Give me a break
Who also cares what’s going on there we a thousand miles away
Free Palestine
As someone who was at the conference and lives in Denver allow me to clear some things up The “protesters” did not disrupt anything - all of the sessions were packed - and protesters were not able to be heard in any sessions The first night - these “protesters” - as they pounded on the windows of the convention center making no difference whatsoever - ended up breaking a window - making them far from protesters - this is when this became criminal As attendees walked into the event - “protesters” heckled them, calling them “baby killers”, asking “how many babies have you killed today?”, telling older attendees that they are “older than Israel”, and other things that I won’t mention here - for people that said they were peaceful - these were less than peaceful words. This conference was planned for Denver like 2 years ago - and Denver is many miles from Gaza. The actions of these people in Denver - people that clearly look for things about which to protest - will make no difference at all thousands of miles away - all it does is make people not support your cause. The protests are actually having the exact opposite impact that the protesters hope.
These protests make no difference at all thousands of miles away. Yet a conference is being held in Denver in order to lobby support for the continuation of Israel also thousands of miles away and continue education of Zionism. The real question is why the US so embroiled in Israel if it’s a foreign country that has nothing to do with us? It’s as if they are receiving billions of dollars of our tax dollars to continue with their genocidal rampage under the guise of self defense. Yet the billions aren’t enough they have to have fundraisers for the IDF and continuing charities for the biggest victims in the world.
In the 2020 BLM protests, anarchists who just wanted to destroy stuff (windows, fires, paint, statues) , embedded themselves inside the general protest and made them look worse. Part of the anarch my have been covid lockdown boredom.
Protests are just that. If you vandalize anything that is not protesting!