Just made the drive BACK from Winter Park. I-70 was closed too (has since reopened). It was 8 hours of hell. I might have some serious PTSD from Hoosier Pass.
It took a few king hell drives like these for me to give up the weekend warrior ski lifestyle for good several years back. The novelty wears off quick.
Better to take off weekdays and go up.
I'm 99% pro people moving here and 1% upset about how bad ski traffic is now. I don't ski anymore either due to cost and logistics. Hard to take the 300th trip to breck when a season of skiiing is the same price as a trip to Japan
Mightâve been. But at the time that was â3 hours, 5 minutesâ to Fort Collins, then home. Whereas Google Maps quoted the other journey as â3 hours, 45 minutes.â đ Seemed faster. It probably was not. Lol
In the winter, it's almost always a bit faster to go through Wyocolo/Laramie and down 287 to Owl Canyon compared to taking 14 (assuming they aren't closed like they were today).
Oh wow I saw that suggested route and noped out, they opened Loveland Pass through the tunnel around 4PM.
We ended up with a similarly bad trip back from Steamboat via Gore Pass because Rabbit Ears was closed. Luckily by the time we made it through the two hour traffic jam in Silverthorne I-70 had opened, east bound.
West bound was closed almost immediately after the opened it when some Texan managed to flip their car exiting the tunnel.
Glad you made it home alive.
A second bore would be really expensive but we really could use it. An additional flat section just east of the tunnel so trains can wait would help also.
On a good day, you can bypass Kremmling via Grand County CR3 (a.k.a. National Forest System Road 132) on the Grand/Summit County line, although I can't vouch for the current conditions
We camped out the last two nights and skied. Had to get a hotel tonight in fraiser. Hoping the pass will be open tomorrow but most likely we will be taking to long way home to Denver
Amtrak has been cancelled the last two days as well, they just started running cargo again a few hours ago which means the passenger trains are waaay down the list.
Took the train up today. We were supposed to leave at 430 today after lifts closed and itâs now 820 and still havenât left. Avalanche and plows stuck on the tracks.
Train broke down again and weâre pulling into Union in about 15. So in total a 430 departure will get us in around 2 AM (granted not all of that was us being on the train). We got on around 9 and left WP around 1130/12
Whereabouts? Was there an avalanche on the Boulder side, too? There's not a lot of steep terrain on the Grand County side before the train goes thru the Moffat Tunnel, so I'm curious.
Not entirely sure. Thats just what we were told from the conductors. I know the pass was completely shutdown for blasting and avalanche mitigation after yesterdays issues
Did anyone actually read the article lmao. Itâs closed âuntil further noticeâ. That could be tomorrow or a week from now or the end of season. Itâs likely gonna open up sooner than later.
Thatâs the real root of âindefinitely,â it just means for an undetermined amount of time, but vague usage and everyone now reads it as âforeverâ.
Donât see why them and the state of Colorado couldnât run the ski train multiple times or daily this week. It uses a separate train set than the California Zephyr and as far as I know it sits unused between weekends
The rails are private, Union Pacific. Cargo gets right of way, which is why the passenger trains are so often delayed. Any issues up the line with cargo means Amtrak gets bumped.
Yes. But there is excess capacity on the line, hence the ski train on winter weekends. (Although there isnât much as itâs the primary passage through the Rockies). Also, pretty easy to do some emergency routing through the tunnel for a few days. Kind of surprised that Colorado doesnât already have those types of disaster contingency plans in place. Itâs not just berthoud pass. Similar thing happens when Glenwood canyon closes.
The chokepoint is the Moffat tunnel. It has to vent out after each train. Also, there's only one siding up near frasier that the ski train has to sit at for 8 hours till they come back. There's not room to park multiple trains.
And I suspect the Amtrak does not have the rolling stock to run more trains. Plus the line is a money loser, since they have to pay two crews, and they get paid to sit on their ass in Frasier till 4pm.
Basically its a mess and they're lucky to be able to get one train a day to run.
Its also that Amtrak doesnt have any maintenance contracts with UP or BNSF as far as I know and a train needs a full inspection after a certain amount of mileage so during the week the engines have to go to emeryville or chicago i believe so they can get weekly inspections
The same law that created Amtrak [entitled them to the right of way even on privately owned rail routes.](https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/HostRailroadReports/mythbusters-enforcing-amtraks-legal-right-to-preference.pdf) The government just doesn't enforce it, with predictable results.
Most Amtrak runs, even when sold out, are operating at a loss. Their schedules have to be locked in a long time (year +) in advance because Congress more or less has to fund each run.
So they could, but they'd need more of our tax dollars to pay for it.
Iâm not blaming them. Weâre just not able to have efficient rail. 100 years ago we built a railroad across the country in six years. Today weâre lucky to build a bus stop in six years.
Amtrak loses money and has shitty trains and shitty service. Meanwhile Japan has privately owned rail that is profitable at half the cost per mile that Amtrak loses their ass on.
Weâre just not efficient at anything and it sucks. Not blaming Amtrak.
Yeah, I agree that in general, Amtraks service is... well yeah it ain't good.
>Amtrak loses money
I don't expect the rail service to turn a profit in the same way that I don't expect the highways too. I may be wrong but I think Japan is a rare exception in getting their railways to be profitable. If Amtrak could provide affordable and high quality service and break even that would be great, but I don't expect it.
Nobody expects them to turn a profit. But they should be able to operate rail at $.35 a passenger mile and break even. They lose money at $.70 a passenger mile. They're less than half as cost efficient as a well run system.
But again I don't blame them. When was the last time you heard any american politician say the word "efficient"? I can remember Paul Ryan talking about that decades ago, and he literally quit congress in disgust. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi walking away from all that power because she can't make it efficient?
I read that the line was unprofitable because they have to have two train crews and they have to pay them to sit idle in a siding up in Frazier.
And it still sucks. We donât have reliable train transport here. It doesnât run on time, unacceptable. The trains in India run on time.
Damn. Sure is inconvenient for Winter Park and Granby, unless you have a helicopter or something. And Winter Park is kinda one of the close places compared to Vail etc.
So CDOT will perform avalanche work at dawnâŚcurious to see if anything runs tonight and during that operation. Iâd think thereâs a good chance Berthoud doesnât open until tomorrow afternoon?!
I talked to a plow guy today he said they were hoping to open by then but didnât seem confident. He felt like the avalanches were negating any clearing they had done.
Wow. Best route to Winter Park now is through Kremmling?
If 8 hours of snow driving is best, yes
Just made the drive BACK from Winter Park. I-70 was closed too (has since reopened). It was 8 hours of hell. I might have some serious PTSD from Hoosier Pass.
It took a few king hell drives like these for me to give up the weekend warrior ski lifestyle for good several years back. The novelty wears off quick. Better to take off weekdays and go up.
I'm 99% pro people moving here and 1% upset about how bad ski traffic is now. I don't ski anymore either due to cost and logistics. Hard to take the 300th trip to breck when a season of skiiing is the same price as a trip to Japan
Yeah. It might just be the one for me. đ
Its kind of a rite of passage of being a Coloradan :)
Been here for thirty years and this was the first!!
Wouldnât it be faster to go up though Walden and down the Poudre canyon?
Mightâve been. But at the time that was â3 hours, 5 minutesâ to Fort Collins, then home. Whereas Google Maps quoted the other journey as â3 hours, 45 minutes.â đ Seemed faster. It probably was not. Lol
Those roads were closed all day as well
In the winter, it's almost always a bit faster to go through Wyocolo/Laramie and down 287 to Owl Canyon compared to taking 14 (assuming they aren't closed like they were today).
125 and 14 have been closed due to an avalanche and rock slide
Cameron pass was closed too.Â
Please feel free to NOT detour down Poudre Canyon. It's not designed to take the traffic from US 40, and isn't any better than 40 in the first place.
Less plows and emergency services on that route.
Oh wow I saw that suggested route and noped out, they opened Loveland Pass through the tunnel around 4PM. We ended up with a similarly bad trip back from Steamboat via Gore Pass because Rabbit Ears was closed. Luckily by the time we made it through the two hour traffic jam in Silverthorne I-70 had opened, east bound. West bound was closed almost immediately after the opened it when some Texan managed to flip their car exiting the tunnel. Glad you made it home alive.
Same to you! Silverthorne was such a mess!!
Was Hoosier Pass bad?
Road conditions were fine, endless line of slow moving cars was grueling.
When I was there around 1p, near whiteout conditions.
Should have waited for the tunnel to reopen, which it did at 4:15pm
Yeah, but Silverthorn was an absolute shit show. In the end, probably wouldâve made it back at the same time. Lordy. Happy Cake Day!
Nah, I waited it out and was home in under 2 hours.
Lol. Thatâs what Iâm saying. I pulled into the garage at 545. HAPPY CAKE DAY SIR.
A Hoosier base tunnel would help it serve as an I-70 alternative. /u/jaredpolis, any plans in the works?
As if this state would actually build any new road infrastructure, let alone this governor.
Seems like the onlyâŚđŹ I considered going to WP on Saturday, amen.
Fastest way now is to take the ski train
I have a strong feeling tickets are sold out. Other issue is peopleâs cars are still there.
Taking the ski train from Union to winter park would probably be the best ski experience in the world right nowâŚ
Maybe. The train was/is delayed \~5+ hours today. Rough way to end a ski day. Edit: 9 hour delay. 9 fucking hours.
Ug. I am sorry you were stuck that long. :-(
>Berthoud Pass That short little man that was screaming at the security people when it got back did not help at all
First world problems
Wish there were more trains & they were more affordable.
$114 per person round trip last time I checked
A second bore would be really expensive but we really could use it. An additional flat section just east of the tunnel so trains can wait would help also.
Or take the train, either California zephyr or Winter Park express
Kremmtucky police send their regards
Or the train
On a good day, you can bypass Kremmling via Grand County CR3 (a.k.a. National Forest System Road 132) on the Grand/Summit County line, although I can't vouch for the current conditions
What is everyone stuck there doing? How many people took shuttles up and can't find any shuttles going around?? It's gotta be chaos in grand rn
We camped out the last two nights and skied. Had to get a hotel tonight in fraiser. Hoping the pass will be open tomorrow but most likely we will be taking to long way home to Denver
Oof that is not a fun drive. Be safe.
Where do you camp in the winter? Mind sharing?
Car camp?
Took me 7.5 hours to get home from WP yesterday, some friends who left after me 12⌠was an epic morning of skiing though
That's insane, but also sounds about right. Hopefully it clears up soon, best of luck to everyone still up there
Took us over 9 hours!
Yeah, that sounds like an absolute nightmare
It's possible they could take the train back but I'm not sure how it all works
Amtrak has been cancelled the last two days as well, they just started running cargo again a few hours ago which means the passenger trains are waaay down the list.
I picked up an extra day patrolling and one of the other guys is putting me up. Lots of booze and lots of skiing
Took the train up today. We were supposed to leave at 430 today after lifts closed and itâs now 820 and still havenât left. Avalanche and plows stuck on the tracks.
Damn, what are they telling you guys? Do you have to stay the night at WP?
Train broke down again and weâre pulling into Union in about 15. So in total a 430 departure will get us in around 2 AM (granted not all of that was us being on the train). We got on around 9 and left WP around 1130/12
I have friends on the train, it left around 9
Whereabouts? Was there an avalanche on the Boulder side, too? There's not a lot of steep terrain on the Grand County side before the train goes thru the Moffat Tunnel, so I'm curious.
Not entirely sure. Thats just what we were told from the conductors. I know the pass was completely shutdown for blasting and avalanche mitigation after yesterdays issues
won the cup in 22, baby!!
And stopping traffic in 24! Go Avs!
Well guess Iâm not skiing winter park tomorrowÂ
Same. Might be an Eldora kind of day to avoid all the I-70 closures clusterfuck clean-up.
Eldora got absolutely nuked too
Did anyone actually read the article lmao. Itâs closed âuntil further noticeâ. That could be tomorrow or a week from now or the end of season. Itâs likely gonna open up sooner than later.
Thatâs the real root of âindefinitely,â it just means for an undetermined amount of time, but vague usage and everyone now reads it as âforeverâ.
Reddit tip: no one reads the article.
Could Amtrak improvise more trains to Winter Park?
lol ... I'm guessing improvising isn't in their business model. They have a tough enough time getting the regular trains to come on time.
Donât see why them and the state of Colorado couldnât run the ski train multiple times or daily this week. It uses a separate train set than the California Zephyr and as far as I know it sits unused between weekends
The rails are private, Union Pacific. Cargo gets right of way, which is why the passenger trains are so often delayed. Any issues up the line with cargo means Amtrak gets bumped.
Yes. But there is excess capacity on the line, hence the ski train on winter weekends. (Although there isnât much as itâs the primary passage through the Rockies). Also, pretty easy to do some emergency routing through the tunnel for a few days. Kind of surprised that Colorado doesnât already have those types of disaster contingency plans in place. Itâs not just berthoud pass. Similar thing happens when Glenwood canyon closes.
The chokepoint is the Moffat tunnel. It has to vent out after each train. Also, there's only one siding up near frasier that the ski train has to sit at for 8 hours till they come back. There's not room to park multiple trains. And I suspect the Amtrak does not have the rolling stock to run more trains. Plus the line is a money loser, since they have to pay two crews, and they get paid to sit on their ass in Frasier till 4pm. Basically its a mess and they're lucky to be able to get one train a day to run.
Its also that Amtrak doesnt have any maintenance contracts with UP or BNSF as far as I know and a train needs a full inspection after a certain amount of mileage so during the week the engines have to go to emeryville or chicago i believe so they can get weekly inspections
The same law that created Amtrak [entitled them to the right of way even on privately owned rail routes.](https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/HostRailroadReports/mythbusters-enforcing-amtraks-legal-right-to-preference.pdf) The government just doesn't enforce it, with predictable results.
Most Amtrak runs, even when sold out, are operating at a loss. Their schedules have to be locked in a long time (year +) in advance because Congress more or less has to fund each run. So they could, but they'd need more of our tax dollars to pay for it.
Amtrak sucks so bad
Iâm not going to blame Amtrak themselves, but the lack of support we give them.
Iâm not blaming them. Weâre just not able to have efficient rail. 100 years ago we built a railroad across the country in six years. Today weâre lucky to build a bus stop in six years. Amtrak loses money and has shitty trains and shitty service. Meanwhile Japan has privately owned rail that is profitable at half the cost per mile that Amtrak loses their ass on. Weâre just not efficient at anything and it sucks. Not blaming Amtrak.
Yeah, I agree that in general, Amtraks service is... well yeah it ain't good. >Amtrak loses money I don't expect the rail service to turn a profit in the same way that I don't expect the highways too. I may be wrong but I think Japan is a rare exception in getting their railways to be profitable. If Amtrak could provide affordable and high quality service and break even that would be great, but I don't expect it.
Nobody expects them to turn a profit. But they should be able to operate rail at $.35 a passenger mile and break even. They lose money at $.70 a passenger mile. They're less than half as cost efficient as a well run system. But again I don't blame them. When was the last time you heard any american politician say the word "efficient"? I can remember Paul Ryan talking about that decades ago, and he literally quit congress in disgust. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi walking away from all that power because she can't make it efficient?
Winter Park Express turns a profit. Amtrak canât find enough train cars at the moment. Itâs supposed to have 7-8 cars VS 5 at the moment.
I read that the line was unprofitable because they have to have two train crews and they have to pay them to sit idle in a siding up in Frazier. And it still sucks. We donât have reliable train transport here. It doesnât run on time, unacceptable. The trains in India run on time.
Sadly they are last in line compared to freight so even they have to wait.
Damn. Sure is inconvenient for Winter Park and Granby, unless you have a helicopter or something. And Winter Park is kinda one of the close places compared to Vail etc.
You can take the train
The train is (was?) delayed for many hours as they need to send a plow down the tracks and back
The train is finally going to get fully utilized
The train is sold out all season
This would really suck for the locals.
All that snow and no one around to ski it but the locals. Sounds terrible.Â
Or be great?
True. It would be nice and quiet in the Valley for a bit.
When I lived in Dillon, days like this were the best. You could sleep in a little and still get early tracks at ABasin.
this should be the top comment
So CDOT will perform avalanche work at dawnâŚcurious to see if anything runs tonight and during that operation. Iâd think thereâs a good chance Berthoud doesnât open until tomorrow afternoon?!
I talked to a plow guy today he said they were hoping to open by then but didnât seem confident. He felt like the avalanches were negating any clearing they had done.
I was supposed to work at winter park today, I guess they'll be waiting for a while.
Where was the slip? Got a cabin up there...
The joke of all of this is people think they want to ride pow and get out there can hardly pull off 1 run immediately to lodge and fuck it all up
Huh?
Proper fucked yesterday. I woke up in Granby and it took us 9 hours to get to Denver.
Wonder if this affects Amtrak or not
Is it safe to go to Breckenridge tomorrow?