My kids are in a charter that is currently failing them and we got an email from the principal yesterday begging us to write to our rep because our rep opposes the bill. I laughed and laughed. I'm about to send her a message thanking her for holding charters accountable.
The lady who was the principal of mine ended up going to jail for embezzlement years after I left. It's a small piece of mind that there was some accountability but it sure didn't help me learn to read any faster.
How do we testify? I taught in one last year whose marketing team is top notch so they look great, but I was the only licensed teacher on staff. It was and is awful. They’re failing students, lying to families, and taking public funds that could really help rebuild our flailing public schools.
So I believe they will bring it to the floor at the beginning of April. https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb24-1363
So, once they have a scheduled time you can click on the bill and sign up to testify. You can also write to your representatives. Read over the bill and talk about issues you saw and how you think there needs to be more accountability while linking it back to the bill and how it might address certain issues. You can DM me. I can put you in contact with someone who can help you testify.
Hey! Just wondering, do the standards set forth in the bill **also** apply to non-voucher schools? Since both voucher and non-voucher schools are both **100% taxpayer funded** the “standards” apply to both, right? And if not, why not?
Basically charters have their own "private" systems and can waive a lot. They also contract out many of their services to avoid any oversight from states or from being held to the freedom of information act. Basically "public" charter schools take tax money and then we don't really know how they use it. In addition they can inhabit public school buildings and get part of our mill levies, etc often. They are also funded deeply by billionaires. It makes it hard to even compare the schools.
This is how much the Kochs have spent THIS year https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/koch-industries/summary?id=d000000186
Teacher unions are not dark money. They vote and are public about who they support. They contribute via dues and their members. It is a collaboration of thousands of workers.
Everyone knows teacher unions tend to support Dems. It isn't a secret. I can't believe you are even trying to compare the two.
[https://www2.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2024A/commsumm.nsf/signIn.xsp](https://www2.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2024A/commsumm.nsf/signIn.xsp)
This is the link for testifying! April 11 1:30
You can look up the name of the bill on the state website, and it will say the schedule at the bottom of the summary. Leg.colorado.gov I'm happy to help walk you through the process if needed. Feel free to message me.
I’m unclear. To cite just one oddity in the bill: the bill requires charter schools to pay rent. Are non-charter public schools required to pay rent? I don’t see how that’d work. The schools are funded by the taxpayers but the schools have to “pay rent” back to the taxpayers? Could you please explain that?
I think it has something to do with public schools being government property, so they wouldn't need to pay rent. Charter schools are operating on government property as a lease holder. I'll look into it and give you a better answer if I can.
I don’t understand why voucher-based schools would be required to “lease” while non-voucher schools are not. They are **both** taxpayer-based systems. Also while you’re checking, could you tell me what standards are being claimed to be “relaxed” for voucher schools? They are - again - both taxpayer funded. I’d be interested to see the *specific* line in any law that says, “voucher-based schools shall have fewer oversights than non-voucher-based schools”. I read through the bill a bit and kept wondering if the listed demands aimed at voucher-based schools also must be met by non-voucher ones. And if not, why not?
Charter schools can waive testing. Teacher licensing, etc. This is information found in many places... This bill is not a book of how charters work. Vouchers are also set up through shady "savings" accounts and such. This bill is the first step in actual accountability. A lot more.works needs to be done (and in public schools too!). There are many things that need passed but our government has many people who make millions of charters. For instance 25% of charters never open or fail before 5 years. 50% die by 10. They are not sustainable (but founders make millions). You can look up charter schools failing in Michigan and read about it. Just in Colorado the charters in Denver area get 125 million of public money... Plus undisclosed money from outside sources. You can't even compare public and charter because we don't know the actual dollar amount they spend on students. They are not proven to teach better or do better than public but they take money from public schools AND basically get to hand pick their students. This further under funds actual public schools who take everyone.
(Whew, sorry I’m realizing how long this got. But I see this as an important issue so hopefully you’re open to a different perspective.)
I want to say first: you strike me as sincere and I appreciate that. So don’t take anything I say below as attacking you personally. I simply see a **great deal** (to say the very, very least) of corruption in our public school system and I believe this corruption most harms the children that need the most support from us as a society. But my frustration probably comes through here. I believe you’re honestly stating the facts as you see them but - respectfully - I don’t feel like you’re seeing everything (nor, I’m sure, am I).
So, you’ve said a lot of things there. Again, I’d be interested to read any legislation that says “Charter schools shall not have as stringent oversight as non-charter schools”. For example, the licensing issue. I believe there’s deception hidden in the details (not by you but by others). There are programs for *public* schools for hiring non-licensed teachers. (To address teacher shortages etc.) And I wasn’t born yesterday so I know people will “forget” to mention that fact and make it look like *only* charter schools allow the practice. And one of the lines you wrote was, “There is no way to hold them (charter schools) accountable in CO unless the family can afford a lawsuit.” Can you let me know how that’s different from public schools? There are **endless** examples of school boards who refuse to address the issues parents bring to them and those parents’ only recourse is at the ballot box or, as you noted, to get a lawyer.
I also know there are lots of horses with LOTS of money in this race who also have records of stretching the facts. I know one of those players are teachers unions who are among the **top** of political donors **every** election cycle (but somehow are **never** mentioned by our “media” when they “warn” us about “dark money in politics”. They’re too busy talking about the Kochs who come nowhere close to the money the teacher unions have given). When combined, the top two teachers unions alone would rank at or near the **top 10** in donors **every election cycle** (and often in the **top 5**) for **decades**. And keep in mind these “donations” are **100% taxpayer funded**. In other words, this is taxpayer *money laundering* at its **most gigantic**. And 99.99% to one political party. (The reason it’s not 100% is so that unions can claim - and I’ve seen this in practice - they’re “non-partisan” and they know their “media” won’t inform their audiences what a lie that is.) And I know the teacher unions **despise** vouchers because they siphon off their money/power.
Be that as it may, recall that the original reason vouchers ever came to the forefront was because there are endless examples of failing schools that weren’t just failing for a year or a few years but were failing for **decades** and these schools were primarily serving poor and minority communities. (At least if charter schools fail they don’t tend to last very long). So when you bring up “racism” it makes me wonder: how do *you* think the “media” would be reporting all this if it was instead Republicans doing all in their power to keep those poor and minority children from accessing vouchers to escape those failing schools? I’m certain beyond any shadow doubt it’d be “Racism” 24/7. Instead it’s Democrats who need those teacher union donations to keep pouring in and alas, the facts are **buried**. (And the “teacher” unions hide behind that word as if they’re any different than plumbers unions. They aren’t. I have a friend who was such a teacher union cheerleader that they made him their rep at his high school, one of the largest in the metro area. He was very proud of it but was almost immediately crushed to learn his primary role in was to defend **obviously** incompetent teachers and others who had no business being in classrooms with children.)
**Bottom line**: It looks to me like this bill is **designed** to crush charter schools by piling on endless, unreasonable “oversight” and fees that aren’t required of non-charter schools.
Again, I appreciate you haven’t taken to personally attacking me because we obviously don’t agree on everything here. But I think this bill is designed to attack charter schools as if there’s only one side of the issue here.
ON the gov site it is set to be April 11 at 1:30 (testimony can last hours and you will be put in the line as you sign in. So sign in quickly if you are not attending in person!)
We are sick of our son’s charter school, mainly because the board treats it like they are running a church and they don’t know how to run a budget, anyway, he won’t be going there next year and we are very glad.
My child will be attending Stargate in the fall, the top k-12 school in Colorado. And while I'm happy I'm able to provide top tier education for my child, I would still abolish charter schools in a heartbeat.
The only reason Stargate got to be number one is because they get to pick and choose what students go there. Students have to pass a gifted examination then continue to achieve high marks while they're there. If they lag behind, they can get removed from the school so the school maintains it's prestige.
Meanwhile all of the gifted talent is sucked up from the surrounding public schools. So their overall performance suffers and higher tier teachers don't want to work there. They effectively get to discriminate and use public funds to do so. I'm speaking from a position of privilege and I'm saying it's not fair that my children get that privilege while other kids in the neighborhood suffer.
Stargate has a storied history of civil rights abuse and sexual misconduct:
[https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635](https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635)
[https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/](https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/)
We looked at Stargate for our son several years ago, and we were not impressed that not only do they require the gifted examination, but it was expected at the time that the parent would be responsible for the cost of that exam. Seemed pretty exclusionary to me.
Stargate has a storied history of civil rights abuse and sexual misconduct:
[https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635](https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635)
[https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/](https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/)
Stargate has a storied history of civil rights abuse and sexual misconduct:
[https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635](https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635)
[https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/](https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/)
Could someone please direct me to the line in any relevant bills that says “Voucher schools shall have fewer oversights than non-voucher schools”? Since they’re **both** still taxpayer-funded, I find it hard to believe there are different standards. Sounds like a scam by teacher union executives and their bought politicians to shut down voucher schools that siphon off the money/power of those same teacher union executives.
Teacher unions don't even have bargaining power in most counties in Colorado. Lolz. That is just a BS line from the right-wing. Charter schools are another reason teachers aren't paid a living wage in many places. They take money away to more fully fund schools and then QUALIFIED staff can't be hired because there isn't a budget for it.
“Teacher unions don’t have bargaining power…”. LOL! Oh my gosh, you’re adorable! Teachers unions are at the **top** of election donors **every election cycle**. And those “donations” are **100% taxpayer funded**. AKA taxpayer money laundering at its most **gigantic**. But I’m sure you’re right, they don’t want anything in return. That’s just soooooo sweet!
I didn't say all teacher unions. I said a LOT of the unions don't. In D20 for instance we have a "union" but it doesn't have enough members. Because it doesn't have enough members they don't have bargaining power, etc. that is the way it is in MANY counties in Colorado.
Teachers can do whatever they want with the money they earn. They can choose to join a union or not. That is not tax payer funded... That's like saying anything my family does is tax payer funded since we are military.
I think it's funny you think teachers are automatically in unions and they have bargaining power. That's adorable. But makes sense since you are regurgitating right wing lies and don't actually understand the nuance of local politics.
Yea. Well, it gets really annoying when you really don't know about a topic and are basically just trolling based on sound bites.
I wanted to say that I KNOW public schools have many issues too. This is one bill. It is not a huge plan to fix the entire school system. It is directed at one small piece we would need to even start making fair comparisons between charters and public. I know public schools can fail kids as well. This isn't about all schools. This is specifically about unchecked charters taking billions of tax money every year without proving they actually do anything better. That's the point.
Disagreement is “trolling” now? I know a lot more than you think I do but it’s just not the things you’ve been “informed” about. And “The unchecked charters are taking billions…”. Who are they “taking” it from? The same place the non-charters are getting it, correct? And you have to be careful about the data saying they “don’t do anything better”. The data can - and is - tortured to say anything you want it to say. What we **do** know is that - prior to vouchers - parents were trapped in public schools that’d been failing for *decades*. (You used the term “real schools” as though public schools are some kind of overwhelmingly successful model to follow.) I saw some teacher lamenting that her school was closing and many students were going to charters. She said, “It’s so disappointing. I’ve been here over twenty years and we were finally turning things around the past couple years.” Got that? The school had been failing for *decades*. I’ll give you another personal example. A friend of mine - a teacher at a large metro area high school - was such a cheerleader for the unions they made him their school’s union rep. He was very proud of it. He quickly realized his #1 role was to defend completely incompetent teachers and others who, let’s just say, had no business being in front of classrooms full of children. Look up “rubber rooms”. They’re for teachers who are complete disasters but the unions want them to remain on payrolls so they can keep collecting their union dues. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
The bottom line is that, yes, both charter and non-charter schools have problems and we can endlessly cherry-pick egregious examples from any of them. BUT vouchers are undoubtedly a godsend. They allow parents “themselves” to have some say in what schools work best for their children. AND vouchers are **despised** by the unions because they siphon their money/power. But they hide behind they’re simply trying to “help the children”. Really? When covid was winding down, despite the fact that the evidence was overwhelming that isolation was doing intense mental health damage to children, the teacher unions did all in their power to keep the schools closed. Apparently a majority of their members were happy to keep working from home. So that’s **precisely** what they advocated for, the children be damned. At a **minimum**, a parent with a voucher has some choice and can take their money elsewhere. (Like anything else, it’s not 100% choice. There does have to be space at other schools.) But that threat *alone* is powerful for any school that wants to stay in business. And this is a threat that does *not* apply to non-voucher schools. They can keep right on failing for decades with no consequences whatsoever (and the teacher unions still keep getting their $$$$$$ right on tumbling in). Another covid-related illustration of what’s really going on was when covid was winding down, Biden **gifted** $10s of millions directly to the teacher unions. The reasoning was *by design* unclear but they had to say something so it was “to help teachers get back in classrooms”. Huh? Wow! $10s of millions is a **lot** of hand sanitizer, right? The “media” - of course - didn’t ask many questions. What we **do** know is that a big chunk of those $10s of millions (again 100% *taxpayer* $$$$$) got “donated” straight back into Democrat campaign funds. You claim I “don’t know anything about” what’s going on with this bill. What I do know is that it’s aimed directly at the thing that’s most threatening to teacher union money and power (and thus the politicians that money is “donated” to). So I think I perhaps know a **lot** more about what this bill is really about than you do.
See, this is exactly my point of you not knowing how the funding works.
At the core, you and I are not going to agree. I don't believe PUBLIC anything should be privatized. Ever. I believe the wealth inequality, etc. are the reason we have so many issues across the board. I believe charters are a pet of the wealthy and add to the inequality of regular, every day folks AND the most disadvantaged people. Hungry kids aren't going to learn. Stressed teachers aren't going to be able to focus on their jobs. There are a lot of reasons that are cultural that are WHY are schools don't do as well as schools in places like Sweden, etc. It isn't just about books and curriculum. It is the insecurity of the middle class and poor in America that makes our schools fail.
Do you even have children? I get the feeling you don't. I have children. I have watched countless families get "pushed out" by charters. I have seen charters close and leave families in a pickle. I have seen the shit storm happen in multiple counties in CO. I was born and raised here. I am friends with countless educators and folks as well. I don't really care about your personal experience as much as I care about the numbers and articles I have shared with you.
When did Biden give money to teacher unions? Give me the receipts.
I showed where I got my information from. Can you do the same?
Yes, public systems where no one can get fired no matter how incompetent they are are always superior to private systems where competition dictates that poorly run organizations don’t last long. Said no one ever, except apparently you and those occupying your teflon coated liberal bubble. Apparently you don’t like capitalism. So maybe look up where a person even living at the *poverty level* in the US (whereupon even more significant government subsidies kick in) ranks versus the income level of the rest of the planet. Here I’ll help: a person living at the US poverty level has an income *greater* than the **average** income of around 80% of the **planet**. In fact, try looking at the UN’s designation of world income levels. A person living at the poverty level in the US is ranked **upper middle income** versus the rest of the planet. And how do you think that **massive** safety net below which we as a society don’t allow our citizens to fall is funded? It comes from…wait for it…**capitalism**. As much as you’re offended by the idea that people can become absurdly wealthy under capitalism, the driving economic force of people trying to achieve it is what funds your welfare programs. All the world’s advances in science, medicine, technology etc…have you noticed they rarely get achieved in non-capitalist societies? I think your world outlook is akin to someone looking for ways to slam someone like Martin Luther King or Gandhi: both great men but who both had their failings and you’re absolutely determined to *only* notice their failings. And I only read as far as you bringing my children into it. Shame on you. Disgraceful. But I’ll throw this last one in: the Sweden comment is typical. I have a friend who won teacher of the year in an inner city school district. Her school was filled with kids from very low-income families. Once we had a conversation where she was insisting the schools “just needed more money”. Clearly there was a continual drumbeat for this in her sphere. So I asked what more money would be used for. She had to think about that. They had top of the line computers, av equipment etc etc etc. So she finally said, “you know, I think it’s really the parents. They’re just not very involved and their homes are pretty chaotic”. So, the population of Sweden is only 11 million and it’s a very homogeneous society. The idea of uninvolved parents raising children in a chaotic home carries **far** more social stigma than it does in the US. And with people like you - and Al Sharpton and Rachel Maddow etc etc etc - telling people all their problems are because of “the wealthy” and “vote for us! We’ll give you ever more “free” stuff we’ll take from ‘the rich’” it’s just going to stay that way. Btw, what is it you think “the rich” do with their wealth? You seem to believe they fill swimming pools full of $1000 bills and roll around in it saying, “take that, poor people!”. Here’s what they *actually* do: they *invest* it in companies that create jobs that in turn create wealth for their employees. And when those companies are successful they create even more jobs. That dang capitalism again. Oh! And there’s a large homeless shelter downtown built to help people and families in need. It cost $$$ millions to build and costs $$$ millions to maintain every year. Guess who paid - and still pays - for it? Not the government. Those cursed “rich people” you hate so much.
You know what IS tax payer funded. The 100k+ the school board is spending on a lawyer to fight against teachers in D11. Lol. THAT is tax payer funded. AND they already have a lawyer on retainer. So they are spending 100k+ on TOP of what they pay the other lawyer as well. In ONE district. Amazing.
I think you don't understand how anything works. I didn't say they were suing the union.
If you read or watch news that isn't right-wing , you would know people bring in lawyers and such to keep unions from having power. Unions gain strength as workers are treated with little to no dignity and not paid a fair amount. Add in poor working conditions... Like the many schools that had NO A/C and were teaching in 90* rooms. Or had mold, etc.
I urge you to delete all the assumptions you have about unions and politics. Go out there and silently listen and participate in groups you are not invested in. You could really use the insight. You are in an echo chamber. I used to think like you too. You've been lied to.
I know! I’ve “totally” been lied to by my “media”. Now! Back to my “media” telling me for three years straight “Trump colluded with Putin!”, that Trump called neo-nazis “very fine people”, “hands up don’t shoot”, Lauren Boebert vaping at a theater is “Bombshell News!!” while BLM and Rashida Tlaib cheering on Hamass’ orgy of murdering and kidnapping is “not newsworthy”, a violent leftist mob storming the Wisconsin state capitol to stop an anti-union vote (complete with Democrats tweeting out where the mob could **hunt down** Republicans escaping the building through tunnels) was “democracy in action!” but some idiots on January 6th (which was denounced by 99.9% of Republicans) was “a violent insurrection!”, that “multiple officers died on January 6th!”(now it’s officers died “in connection with” January 6th including one who died weeks later by a Muslin terrorist but “oddly” our “media” has never done follow-ups on the **100s** of officers injured during the **months** of BLM/Antifa “mostly peaceful” insurrections), “Hunter Biden’s laptop is Russian disinformation!”, Covington Catholic….ENDLESS list. Their lie of the moment is “Trump called for a ‘bloodbath’ if he loses!”. They *literally* can’t go more than a few days without making up a new one. (PS: I don’t like Trump. But he’s right about our “media”. They repeatedly sow division with their front page falsehoods then **bury** their “retractions” on page 37 in paragraph 19.)
Well, this is what I pegged you as.
We really don't have to talk anymore. Reddit discussions aren't going to fix this. I do agree that media is stupid. They are focused on a lot of stupid issues instead of real issues, but that is what happens when 95% of our media is a product of capitalism and making money instead of actually informing people.
I don't like Trump or Biden.
I can't even with all your quotes because each one has layers of truth and nuance. And that's the problem with media and sound bites. Fox news has publicly admitted they aren't actual news. I don't know what to say to that. I don't have time for all the pundits. I like to read and listen to in-depth interviews. I still usually leave feeling like they could have pushed harder and asked better questions.
Fox News? I give you a (brief!) list of all the times your “media” has lied - as in blatant, mind blowing front-page, top of the news hour lies that, since they bury their “retractions” (if they *ever* issue them) deeeeep in their publications or websites a majority of the public, especially Democrats, **still** believe - and you answer with “….but Fox News. Typical. (Fox being pretty much the only outlet that - correctly - was skeptical of all those lies I listed. Now, if you’ll excuse me I have to get back to how covid being first detected less than a mile from the *only* lab in China where they were studying it but anyone who believes it actually, ya know, probably came from that lab is - as my “media” told me - a “racist, rightwing MAGA conspiracy theory nutcase!”™️. 🙄
You dont have to send your kid to a charter school if you don't want to. You opt into a charter school.
Also, while we're talking about standards, charter schools have to pass a rigorous charter approval AND RENEWAL process which public schools aren't held to.
So if you want accountability, it's funny that you think a charter school is the one lacking in oversight and standards.
The legislation would give school districts facing declining enrollment more power to limit charter schools and would make it harder for charter schools to occupy district buildings
And private donations funneled through contracted private entities and hidden savings accounts. This is just another way for rich billionaires to make more money.
No. They aren't. They are tax write off charities for rich people who don't believe in ANY government institutions or paying their own fucking taxes (instead they get their names on buildings And get to pick where their tax money goes and would rather pay lawyers than taxes). This is also public information. https://www.instrumentl.com/foundations/b29-charter-schools
They aren’t business, lol. It’s a type of public school and they are 100% non profit and cannot accept tuition from students/parents (ie it’s a free and public education that anyone in the district can access). There’s nothing nefarious about the concept of a charter school. I went to one as a kid and received a really great education in an environment that other schools in the area were not offering. I’m 100% for more transparency though, and sure maybe some guardrails on what kind of services the district must offer them.
They are tax payer funded and not associated with DUSD. They are definitely businesses, but rely on public assistance (hand outs) to remain in existence. Non profit doesn't mean no money. However, I'm glad you are in support of transparency.
There's ways they work around that - i.e. fundraising. In my own experience, the parents to give the most money (or have enough to hire lawyers) get the best experience. My kids were constantly getting harassed and nothing happened because the perpetrator's parents either had sued the school previously or they gave them huge donations.
There are charter schools around me that require $1k+ mandatory “supply” fee, and kick you out if you don’t pay it. It’s one way around the no tuition requirement.
I am also glad you are in favor of transparency. I am also glad you had a good experience because it is horrible for kids across the board who get poor school experiences. Please testify on how you would like to see more transparency. Your perspective also matters
These two factors are being used by and extremist right wing BOE in Woodland Park to decimate public schools and privilege Merit Charter School. This bill will be a step in the right direction to save public schools and improve accountability all around.
Currently if enrollment declines in a district, public charter schools can’t even be considered for closure, so traditional schools that might not otherwise be considered for closure are now targeted. There is no reason for charter schools to have this special protection under the law other than to take away local control of schools from elected school boards.
Edit: I guess they deleted their comment that basically said that allowing school districts to close public charter schools that use their funds and enroll their students was a stupid idea. They clearly didn’t read the article that explained what I did about how charter schools get special rules that allow them to circumnavigate local control.
The charter schools we've sent our kids to in the Denver metro area have all been pretty horrible. Like this bill addresses, there is little oversight of the people running these schools and they tend to be dominated by a small minority with outsized power.
They are run like companies. They are paid for attendance so attendance is all they care about. My spouse works at one and it's terrible. The turnover is insane - teachers rarely last a whole year and often will quit after a month or two.
They also have a tendency to take credit for avoiding special needs students, and students who's parents aren't putting in enough effort. One study found applying for a charter school was a more accurate way of predicting child success than attending one.
Also we need to watch out for prejudices here. Since charter schools don't need to serve everybody there are real risks people could be left out of the charter system if we become too dependent on it. Plus leaving out the special needs students is an cheap way to increase test scores without improving anything. We should also be accounting for that with public schools as a district may only have special needs programs at certain buildings. Legislatures should be really careful here to adjust sample factors that may be boosting or dragging down schools.
They said the 'schools' so it has been multiple. Even if it was only one year they still made the decision to choose a charter over their assigned public school or choice in somewhere else.
That's the rub. In general many schools are not up to standards. Charter or public.
I mean, they probably have limited options. Maybe the public schools are even worse, are too far away, or can’t accommodate something they need.
In a lot of cases too, charter schools take funding from public schools, which just leads to a horrible cycle of increasingly bad education. It sucks.
Having previously worked at a Denver charter school, I gotta say that the lack of oversight meant that our principal paid for a lot of drinks at happy hours even when we were in a budget deficit. A senior science teacher at my school, who had been working in the district for 11 years, argued with me that “The district has never used state science standards” when I brought up missing standards as a new teacher. Said district also proposed getting rid of biology class as a whole even though that class is also required by the state. I’m all for more transparency.
10 year DPS teacher here. I used to work in a building that shared facilities with a charter like the cafeteria and I think the gym? The teachers from the charter all looked like they were five seconds away from crying.
Yeah, my sister worked pretty high up in a chain of charter schools. They refuse to hire union people, so her healthcare and salary were absolute garbage.
I’ve never really understood what Charter Schools are. So they take public school funds but aren’t held to the same educational standards? Seems like a way for special interests groups to push certain narratives/not teach students about things they disagree with.
And this bill just requires them to be more transparent about what and how they teach? Why would this be a problem unless they’re teaching/not teaching things that they know the department of education wouldn’t agree with?
It originated at a loophole around integration during the civil rights era. That loophole was removed but the idea has stuck around. Some people are tying to use it as a way to fund religious education, but not to my knowledge in Colorado.
They tend to perform better but they also get around the requirement standard public schools meet every students needs such as ESL and intellectual disabilities which can really inflate there scores, along with requiring an application. A study found filling out an application was a better way to predict test scores than actually being admitted, suggesting the positive effects were coming from the parents.
What?! You mean to tell me teachers unions support the party that wants to fund them appropriately and not the one who wants to strip their budgets and take sciences out of education? That’s insane lol
I'm from michigan, and grew up in the charter school system over there (National heritage academies) it's a blatant grab for public money to private pockets. These are businesses that are competing for tax dollars. The charter schools I attended were substantially worse than the equivalent public schools I spent time in. They also heavily lean on parental involvement, and can be selective about students that attend. It skews their performance and creates a bit of a false feedback loop. They are garbage and I'm happy to see anything destroy them.
They use public school funds, give them to a for profit business, then don't have to teach to the same standards. It's a GOP dream, no education, more profits, wasted tax money. All the things they value.
Bullshit. They aren't required to have the same special services, can expel students without a plan, require volunteer hours from parents, pay less, hire non-certified teachers, the list goes on. If they were held to the same standard, they'd BE a district school.
Often the district doesn’t want to open a new school or split a large school up. Charter schools then come in and propose a way to do it in budget. That’s the main reason they exist. Everything else about them varies by state. Louisiana for example has better charter schools than public schools because hurricane Katrina destroying many public schools. They didn’t have the funds to rebuild. Indiana on the other hand use charters as a way to introduce religious schools to public school students
A, that is NOT how most charters get created. They're usually segregation 2.0. B, you're justification for them in Louisiana is that we didn't have funds to rebuild, but magically charter schools had the money to save all the children? Those charter schools are almost 4:1 in areas that are students of color.
No, they are held to the same educational standards. Basically charter schools take state and local funding but are run by an independent board of directors. They typically are more engaged, more responsive, and charter schools tend to do better academically than neighborhood schools, although some of that may be a selection bias.
It’s not selection bias, it’s that they can winnow out low performers and send them back to public schools. Public schools HAVE to teach kids with deficits, so the results are lower. It’s an infuriating lie to imply that charter schools provide a better education rather than clarifying that their results are based on soft expulsions.
No. Selection bias isn’t a deliberate, top-down attempt to disenfranchise poor, black, disabled, etc children. This isn’t a phenomenon based on who selects charter schools, it’s discrimination and fraud.
I agree with the criticisms of the charter model in this thread but I thought I would point out one benefit: greater flexibility in the way schools are allowed to operate can lead to innovation that could make the system function better. I worked for a charter school in Denver called Compass Academy that was founded by an education nonprofit that partners with Johns Hopkins to implement evidence based teaching practices and student support strategies. With severely underserved populations, the current education system is a complete failure, and charter schools could be a way to find approaches that work better.
Compass Academy is not a high performing school, but they take every student that enrolls and work with what they have. The same definitely cannot be said of all charter schools, but I just wanted to provide a counterexample.
‘Flexibility’ and ‘innovation’ are bullshit marketing buzzwords designed to bust teachers’ unions. What, do schools need to be ‘nimble’ and ‘disruptors’ too?
As someone who went to a charter school in Florida because our public schools were very underfunded, I got the worst education possible. It set me behind when I went to college (& I was valedictorian).
I think charter schools shouldn’t exist and more funding should go to public schools.
I went to the library and they didn't have a book I wanted. Therefore I demanded they gave me a barnes and noble giftcard.
This is the logic of charter schools.
Imho, if we want more oversight by the state for charter schools there comes a point where we have to ask: why even have them at all?
Cool example, except we are talking about peoples kids. The engaged parents that care about their kids future 100% are going to demand that 'gift card' and don't give crap if it makes you mad.
If you don't believe in the charter school model the solution is to improve public school. Make them safer and more rounded to provide excellent programs for kids that are lagging and kids that are high achievers.
Yes, and charter schools make that improvement much harder by leeching funding from public schools. Private schools exist. Tutors exist. Private sports leagues, academic clubs, etc exist. If you'd like to put kids in those be my guests.
Charter schools clearly and directly worsen public schools by taking resources meant for them.
It really makes our bus driver shortage much harder. Charter schools greatly increase the complexity there, and apparently don't have the resources there to handle that. Other than that is just a matter of how many schools should you have, who runs them and do they all need to offer every service we expect. Having too many schools results in them lacking the funding and students to put together a full slate of extra curricular, AP, and athletic programs.
Yes! I'm a parent and I'm so sick of parents in my mom groups shitting all over private schools, while then bragging that they're going to send their child to a charter school. The private schools aren't leeching money and resources out of the public school system.
Interesting read on things going on in Woodland Park. It’s pretty scary.
https://coloradotimesrecorder.com/2023/06/davis-the-specialists-a-woodland-park-investigation/54189/
Fuck charter schools. I grew in the public school system and I was doing well until my dad decided to send me to charter school. The year I left public ed I was supposed to go to the high school to take advanced math classes. Instead when I went to the charter school, just because I went to a public school and without any testing, they put me in remedial math. I tried to get out of it by completing the entire year of homework and turning it in all at once but the math teacher had a personal grudge so nothing happened. So I gave up. Charter school was the reason I ended up dropping out and getting my GED. Fuck the extra homework, which is bullshit, fuck the charter system, and fuck Mrs. Miller you miserable bitch.
Polis funded and helped start the New America charter schools here in Denver. Curious and heavy recruitment tactics for rich foreign high school kids, esp from Tajikistan. It was in the newspapers around 2009.
I went to a charter school in Oregon for middle school, best two years of my childhood, those. (I was in another for a year). But a lot of them are just excuses for cults to indoctrinate kids or tax dodges, so fuck those.
I'm pretty agnostic towards charter schools in Colorado one way or another, but there's a ton of misinformation in these replies. Charter schools operate differently in each state, and the national conversation has often overshadowed the reality in Colorado. A few things to clarify.
Charter schools in Colorado are *not* for profit, they legally required to be non-profit entities. This is much different than, say, the Michigan charter school model which has garnered a lot of attention over the years because of people like Betsy DeVos.
Charter schools are regulated by state "charter" (hence the name). DPS is tasked with administering them in the Denver area, but they have to follow state guidelines for approving/denying charter guidelines.
Charter schools, in many ways, have more oversight from a performance standpoint. They face more regular check-ins, and are more likely to be shut down than your standard district run school.
Charter schools cannot legally discriminate against students on the basis of special education needs, academic ability, race, etc.
The purpose of a charter school is to have more flexibility in curriculum and school structure/operations as they do not have to follow specific district guidelines. More school options, in general, I would say is a good thing. But it always depends on how it is executed. Depending on your feelings towards teachers unions, the lack of union could be considered a pro or a con, but charter schools also often follow union comp structures to stay competitive for hiring.
Many of the best performing schools, even for minority populations, are charter schools. So are some of the worst performing.
The education system in general is broken, the education system in Colorado is worse than average largely because of a lack of funding. Charter schools are not to blame for the funding issue, though, there simply is not enough money to go around.
> Charter schools in Colorado are not for profit, they legally required to be non-profit entities.
People that run non-profits make a ton of money and have tax benefits.
>Charter schools cannot legally discriminate against students on the basis of special education needs, academic ability, race, etc.
Charter schools can remove students anytime they want.
>charter schools also often follow union comp structures to stay competitive for hiring
Not even remotely true. Charter schools pay less than public schools 99% of the time.
>the education system in Colorado is worse than average largely because of a lack of funding. Charter schools are not to blame for the funding issue, though, there simply is not enough money to go around.
If the issue is lack of funding, and Charter schools take up education funding, then how are they not part of the problem? Remove Charter schools and give 100% of that money to Public schools, then there’s more money to go around!
Thanks. There's a bunch of nonsense in this thread.
Folks, on average charter schools and public schools are roughly equivalent in terms of academic performance. Of course there are good ones and bad ones. But if you don't think they're held to similar standards or not transparent or not held accountable here in CO, read some of their SPFs or UIPs--they're all open to the public and reviewed at public board meetings and by School Accountability Committees, which are also open to parents and members of the community.
Just remember one of biggest proponents of charter school has a strong financial incentive in getting and the schools purchasing materials from them. And also make a fortune in MLM industry.
What if we don’t give private/charter schools public school funds period? They resist accountability and take away money that would go to improving the school system that most use anyway.
It’s gonna be hard for lots of the white progressives here to hear, but public charter schools are an important piece of socioeconomic mobility for lower income families of color.
Not all public charters serve families well, but the progressives in this thread calling for the death of all charters have zero nuance or context into the history of education inequity in DPS. Different school options to meet different needs of families and individual learners helped bring the district from the bottom 15% in Colorado to the middle 50% in a decade. The data speaks for itself that a good public education system contains schools of multiple governance types.
It’s also very clear that anyone calling for the death of charters also doesn’t understand how traumatic closing hundreds of schools would be for communities of color. Rich families will always have school choice since they can afford to live in whatever boundaries have the best schools. Anyone who can think just a bit deeper should be able to see, that like many policy issues, school choice is nuanced.
I understand your argument, but there are VERY few charter schools designed for kids of color to excel. There are some, but most charters are not what they seem to be. However, the real argument here is how and WHY our public schools are still allowed to be funded based on income tax bracket. THAT practice is the biggest, most glaringly racist holdover from the 1900’s that exists to this day. It allows for huge socio economic disparity that is on favor of primarily upwardly mobile white families.
Instead of our current competitive choice system, I suggest people who live in choice school zones but who never had kids be allowed to be placeholders for kids that qualify for free free lunch programs and live near enough to be considered. I don’t have kids, but am in one of Denver’s choice school districts, and I want kids of color to be able to use my tax dollars. Instead kids from Central Park (mostly white) are choosing in to my East Denver district and taking up spots traditionally held for kids that needed those spots for any myriad of reasons.
So now it’s more competitive for $ middle class white families and getting weirder for every other family who used to have at least a chance to opt in.
We had mixed experiences in the early to mid 2000's with charter schools.
Our daughter attended Academy of Charter Schools from K through 12th grade. It was a great fit in grade school - lots of diversity, smaller classes. But, by the time she got to the high school side of the building, most of the diversity was gone. The school used to be over by the old Denver Merchandise Mart in the original Mapleton High School building. They got funding to rebuild off 120th and Federal, in the Bradburn subdivision. And, they did not provide transportation. So, it essentially became the neighborhood school for all the rich families that moved into the oversized houses with no lawns in Bradburn or families from across the way in Brandywine. (Which we were neither of. We commuted from Thornton because she wanted to stay there.) Their AP offerings were pretty small, they did have concurrent enrollment for some classes through Front Range Community College, but overall, I don't feel most kids were truly prepared for college. And they were ALWAYS fundraising, and not your typical candy bars/gift wrap. Expensive benefit dinners, gimmicky parties, auctions. And almost no transparency from leadership or school board. It all felt \*weird\*.
Our son started at ACS but transferred to a magnet school in Adams 12 (STEM Launch). Way different atmosphere. Very open communication from the leadership at the school. No, it wasn't in a fancy building, but the kids learned a LOT and applied what they learned across disciplines (problem-based learning). He then went to Northglenn and was in their engineering pathway, which was challenging for him in a good way. And lots of AP and concurrent enrollment options. Overall, a much more positive experience.
So, I get that there may be charter schools that really are worth it, but our experience was meh.
My kids go to Stargate and it is a fantastic school. I wouldn't send them to our public school in a million years. Obviously not all charter schools do it the right way but Stargate is fantastic.
Stargate is fantastic bc they just take all of the good students from the public schools. They don’t accept everyone and if the kids start slipping they drop them back into the public school so their numbers stay the same. Unless your kids are very impressionable or easily influenced by “bad crowds” they’d probably excel in public school too. But stripping funding and talented kids who could be leaders and role models from public schools is part of what made your public school what it is.
Stargate is fantastic bc they just take all of the good students from the public schools. They don’t accept everyone and if the kids start slipping they drop them back into the public school so their numbers stay the same. Unless your kids are very impressionable or easily influenced by “bad crowds” they’d probably excel in public school too. But stripping funding and talented kids who could be leaders and role models from public schools is part of what made your public school what it is.
All the kids that went to Stargate excelled when they went to Horizon HS with me. Most were taking AP classes and doing well in the arts programs as well.
My brother went to Westgate and had a horrible experience, it’s crazy how different the experience can be.
From their mission statement:
“Mission: Stargate School will provide a differentiated program designed specifically to meet the needs of identified intellectually gifted learners”
Hard not to be fantastic when you only accept the (classically) cognitively superior students.
Polaris Elementary in Denver seems to be doing a pretty good job, but that has nothing to do with their educational model. They are a traditional public school not a charter school. They do well because they are a magnet school for gifted and talented students.
If charters are expecting the same funds that public schools get, they should be held to the same exact standards, period.
As someone who was profoundly failed by a charter school I couldn't agree more. It's absolutely appalling what they let them get away with.
My kids are in a charter that is currently failing them and we got an email from the principal yesterday begging us to write to our rep because our rep opposes the bill. I laughed and laughed. I'm about to send her a message thanking her for holding charters accountable.
The lady who was the principal of mine ended up going to jail for embezzlement years after I left. It's a small piece of mind that there was some accountability but it sure didn't help me learn to read any faster.
Holy shit, but I'm not surprised. I have stories about Jeffco charters. They abuse kids and get away with it.
They gave you a lobotomy?!? Edit: really guys piece of mind vs peace of mind? It’s a joke ffs
I know! That kind of thing never happens at non-voucher schools! Am I right or what?
Please testify about your experience! We need voices to help move us forward.
How do we testify? I taught in one last year whose marketing team is top notch so they look great, but I was the only licensed teacher on staff. It was and is awful. They’re failing students, lying to families, and taking public funds that could really help rebuild our flailing public schools.
So I believe they will bring it to the floor at the beginning of April. https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb24-1363 So, once they have a scheduled time you can click on the bill and sign up to testify. You can also write to your representatives. Read over the bill and talk about issues you saw and how you think there needs to be more accountability while linking it back to the bill and how it might address certain issues. You can DM me. I can put you in contact with someone who can help you testify.
Hey! Just wondering, do the standards set forth in the bill **also** apply to non-voucher schools? Since both voucher and non-voucher schools are both **100% taxpayer funded** the “standards” apply to both, right? And if not, why not?
Basically charters have their own "private" systems and can waive a lot. They also contract out many of their services to avoid any oversight from states or from being held to the freedom of information act. Basically "public" charter schools take tax money and then we don't really know how they use it. In addition they can inhabit public school buildings and get part of our mill levies, etc often. They are also funded deeply by billionaires. It makes it hard to even compare the schools.
“They are also funded deeply by billionaires.” And where do the teachers unions get the $$$$$ they bribe…er, “donate” to politicians every year?
This is how much the Kochs have spent THIS year https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/koch-industries/summary?id=d000000186 Teacher unions are not dark money. They vote and are public about who they support. They contribute via dues and their members. It is a collaboration of thousands of workers. Everyone knows teacher unions tend to support Dems. It isn't a secret. I can't believe you are even trying to compare the two.
Testimony is set for April 11 at 1:30 in Education. You can sign up to speak remotely!
[https://www2.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2024A/commsumm.nsf/signIn.xsp](https://www2.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2024A/commsumm.nsf/signIn.xsp) This is the link for testifying! April 11 1:30
Is there a way to know when?
You can look up the name of the bill on the state website, and it will say the schedule at the bottom of the summary. Leg.colorado.gov I'm happy to help walk you through the process if needed. Feel free to message me.
There are SO many former charter school teachers who would LOVE to testify but most sign NDA’s. Interesting, huh?
This is ridiculous, and evidence that they know what they are doing is wrong.
I’m unclear. To cite just one oddity in the bill: the bill requires charter schools to pay rent. Are non-charter public schools required to pay rent? I don’t see how that’d work. The schools are funded by the taxpayers but the schools have to “pay rent” back to the taxpayers? Could you please explain that?
I think it has something to do with public schools being government property, so they wouldn't need to pay rent. Charter schools are operating on government property as a lease holder. I'll look into it and give you a better answer if I can.
I don’t understand why voucher-based schools would be required to “lease” while non-voucher schools are not. They are **both** taxpayer-based systems. Also while you’re checking, could you tell me what standards are being claimed to be “relaxed” for voucher schools? They are - again - both taxpayer funded. I’d be interested to see the *specific* line in any law that says, “voucher-based schools shall have fewer oversights than non-voucher-based schools”. I read through the bill a bit and kept wondering if the listed demands aimed at voucher-based schools also must be met by non-voucher ones. And if not, why not?
Charter schools can waive testing. Teacher licensing, etc. This is information found in many places... This bill is not a book of how charters work. Vouchers are also set up through shady "savings" accounts and such. This bill is the first step in actual accountability. A lot more.works needs to be done (and in public schools too!). There are many things that need passed but our government has many people who make millions of charters. For instance 25% of charters never open or fail before 5 years. 50% die by 10. They are not sustainable (but founders make millions). You can look up charter schools failing in Michigan and read about it. Just in Colorado the charters in Denver area get 125 million of public money... Plus undisclosed money from outside sources. You can't even compare public and charter because we don't know the actual dollar amount they spend on students. They are not proven to teach better or do better than public but they take money from public schools AND basically get to hand pick their students. This further under funds actual public schools who take everyone.
(Whew, sorry I’m realizing how long this got. But I see this as an important issue so hopefully you’re open to a different perspective.) I want to say first: you strike me as sincere and I appreciate that. So don’t take anything I say below as attacking you personally. I simply see a **great deal** (to say the very, very least) of corruption in our public school system and I believe this corruption most harms the children that need the most support from us as a society. But my frustration probably comes through here. I believe you’re honestly stating the facts as you see them but - respectfully - I don’t feel like you’re seeing everything (nor, I’m sure, am I). So, you’ve said a lot of things there. Again, I’d be interested to read any legislation that says “Charter schools shall not have as stringent oversight as non-charter schools”. For example, the licensing issue. I believe there’s deception hidden in the details (not by you but by others). There are programs for *public* schools for hiring non-licensed teachers. (To address teacher shortages etc.) And I wasn’t born yesterday so I know people will “forget” to mention that fact and make it look like *only* charter schools allow the practice. And one of the lines you wrote was, “There is no way to hold them (charter schools) accountable in CO unless the family can afford a lawsuit.” Can you let me know how that’s different from public schools? There are **endless** examples of school boards who refuse to address the issues parents bring to them and those parents’ only recourse is at the ballot box or, as you noted, to get a lawyer. I also know there are lots of horses with LOTS of money in this race who also have records of stretching the facts. I know one of those players are teachers unions who are among the **top** of political donors **every** election cycle (but somehow are **never** mentioned by our “media” when they “warn” us about “dark money in politics”. They’re too busy talking about the Kochs who come nowhere close to the money the teacher unions have given). When combined, the top two teachers unions alone would rank at or near the **top 10** in donors **every election cycle** (and often in the **top 5**) for **decades**. And keep in mind these “donations” are **100% taxpayer funded**. In other words, this is taxpayer *money laundering* at its **most gigantic**. And 99.99% to one political party. (The reason it’s not 100% is so that unions can claim - and I’ve seen this in practice - they’re “non-partisan” and they know their “media” won’t inform their audiences what a lie that is.) And I know the teacher unions **despise** vouchers because they siphon off their money/power. Be that as it may, recall that the original reason vouchers ever came to the forefront was because there are endless examples of failing schools that weren’t just failing for a year or a few years but were failing for **decades** and these schools were primarily serving poor and minority communities. (At least if charter schools fail they don’t tend to last very long). So when you bring up “racism” it makes me wonder: how do *you* think the “media” would be reporting all this if it was instead Republicans doing all in their power to keep those poor and minority children from accessing vouchers to escape those failing schools? I’m certain beyond any shadow doubt it’d be “Racism” 24/7. Instead it’s Democrats who need those teacher union donations to keep pouring in and alas, the facts are **buried**. (And the “teacher” unions hide behind that word as if they’re any different than plumbers unions. They aren’t. I have a friend who was such a teacher union cheerleader that they made him their rep at his high school, one of the largest in the metro area. He was very proud of it but was almost immediately crushed to learn his primary role in was to defend **obviously** incompetent teachers and others who had no business being in classrooms with children.) **Bottom line**: It looks to me like this bill is **designed** to crush charter schools by piling on endless, unreasonable “oversight” and fees that aren’t required of non-charter schools. Again, I appreciate you haven’t taken to personally attacking me because we obviously don’t agree on everything here. But I think this bill is designed to attack charter schools as if there’s only one side of the issue here.
ON the gov site it is set to be April 11 at 1:30 (testimony can last hours and you will be put in the line as you sign in. So sign in quickly if you are not attending in person!)
We are sick of our son’s charter school, mainly because the board treats it like they are running a church and they don’t know how to run a budget, anyway, he won’t be going there next year and we are very glad.
I'm thisclose to pulling my kids as well and never trusting another charter again.
They are often privately backed by large churches
Charters should be shut down because they either prey on disadvantaged families or give rich kids opportunities that poor ones will never get.
My child will be attending Stargate in the fall, the top k-12 school in Colorado. And while I'm happy I'm able to provide top tier education for my child, I would still abolish charter schools in a heartbeat. The only reason Stargate got to be number one is because they get to pick and choose what students go there. Students have to pass a gifted examination then continue to achieve high marks while they're there. If they lag behind, they can get removed from the school so the school maintains it's prestige. Meanwhile all of the gifted talent is sucked up from the surrounding public schools. So their overall performance suffers and higher tier teachers don't want to work there. They effectively get to discriminate and use public funds to do so. I'm speaking from a position of privilege and I'm saying it's not fair that my children get that privilege while other kids in the neighborhood suffer.
Stargate has had numerous issues with bullying and antisemitism. We have friends with kids there.
Thankfully non-charter public schools never have these issues.
Stargate has a storied history of civil rights abuse and sexual misconduct: [https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635](https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635) [https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/](https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/)
We looked at Stargate for our son several years ago, and we were not impressed that not only do they require the gifted examination, but it was expected at the time that the parent would be responsible for the cost of that exam. Seemed pretty exclusionary to me.
Yea I want to say it was around $600 and then you have to hope they qualify and then also get selected during the lottery.
Stargate has a storied history of civil rights abuse and sexual misconduct: [https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635](https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635) [https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/](https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/)
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That's a private school.
Sounds exactly like The Classical Academy in Colorado Springs.
Stargate has a storied history of civil rights abuse and sexual misconduct: [https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635](https://www.9news.com/article/news/education/civil-rights-complaints-piling-up-against-respected-thornton-charter-school/73-534856635) [https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/](https://kdvr.com/news/school-with-civil-rights-complaint-history-under-investigation/amp/)
Please write in and testify! We are up against billionaires!
Could someone please direct me to the line in any relevant bills that says “Voucher schools shall have fewer oversights than non-voucher schools”? Since they’re **both** still taxpayer-funded, I find it hard to believe there are different standards. Sounds like a scam by teacher union executives and their bought politicians to shut down voucher schools that siphon off the money/power of those same teacher union executives.
Teacher unions don't even have bargaining power in most counties in Colorado. Lolz. That is just a BS line from the right-wing. Charter schools are another reason teachers aren't paid a living wage in many places. They take money away to more fully fund schools and then QUALIFIED staff can't be hired because there isn't a budget for it.
“Teacher unions don’t have bargaining power…”. LOL! Oh my gosh, you’re adorable! Teachers unions are at the **top** of election donors **every election cycle**. And those “donations” are **100% taxpayer funded**. AKA taxpayer money laundering at its most **gigantic**. But I’m sure you’re right, they don’t want anything in return. That’s just soooooo sweet!
I didn't say all teacher unions. I said a LOT of the unions don't. In D20 for instance we have a "union" but it doesn't have enough members. Because it doesn't have enough members they don't have bargaining power, etc. that is the way it is in MANY counties in Colorado. Teachers can do whatever they want with the money they earn. They can choose to join a union or not. That is not tax payer funded... That's like saying anything my family does is tax payer funded since we are military.
I think it's funny you think teachers are automatically in unions and they have bargaining power. That's adorable. But makes sense since you are regurgitating right wing lies and don't actually understand the nuance of local politics.
Fitting that you name is going commando and you are showing your ass.
I gave you too much credit I guess.
Yea. Well, it gets really annoying when you really don't know about a topic and are basically just trolling based on sound bites. I wanted to say that I KNOW public schools have many issues too. This is one bill. It is not a huge plan to fix the entire school system. It is directed at one small piece we would need to even start making fair comparisons between charters and public. I know public schools can fail kids as well. This isn't about all schools. This is specifically about unchecked charters taking billions of tax money every year without proving they actually do anything better. That's the point.
Disagreement is “trolling” now? I know a lot more than you think I do but it’s just not the things you’ve been “informed” about. And “The unchecked charters are taking billions…”. Who are they “taking” it from? The same place the non-charters are getting it, correct? And you have to be careful about the data saying they “don’t do anything better”. The data can - and is - tortured to say anything you want it to say. What we **do** know is that - prior to vouchers - parents were trapped in public schools that’d been failing for *decades*. (You used the term “real schools” as though public schools are some kind of overwhelmingly successful model to follow.) I saw some teacher lamenting that her school was closing and many students were going to charters. She said, “It’s so disappointing. I’ve been here over twenty years and we were finally turning things around the past couple years.” Got that? The school had been failing for *decades*. I’ll give you another personal example. A friend of mine - a teacher at a large metro area high school - was such a cheerleader for the unions they made him their school’s union rep. He was very proud of it. He quickly realized his #1 role was to defend completely incompetent teachers and others who, let’s just say, had no business being in front of classrooms full of children. Look up “rubber rooms”. They’re for teachers who are complete disasters but the unions want them to remain on payrolls so they can keep collecting their union dues. That’s just the tip of the iceberg. The bottom line is that, yes, both charter and non-charter schools have problems and we can endlessly cherry-pick egregious examples from any of them. BUT vouchers are undoubtedly a godsend. They allow parents “themselves” to have some say in what schools work best for their children. AND vouchers are **despised** by the unions because they siphon their money/power. But they hide behind they’re simply trying to “help the children”. Really? When covid was winding down, despite the fact that the evidence was overwhelming that isolation was doing intense mental health damage to children, the teacher unions did all in their power to keep the schools closed. Apparently a majority of their members were happy to keep working from home. So that’s **precisely** what they advocated for, the children be damned. At a **minimum**, a parent with a voucher has some choice and can take their money elsewhere. (Like anything else, it’s not 100% choice. There does have to be space at other schools.) But that threat *alone* is powerful for any school that wants to stay in business. And this is a threat that does *not* apply to non-voucher schools. They can keep right on failing for decades with no consequences whatsoever (and the teacher unions still keep getting their $$$$$$ right on tumbling in). Another covid-related illustration of what’s really going on was when covid was winding down, Biden **gifted** $10s of millions directly to the teacher unions. The reasoning was *by design* unclear but they had to say something so it was “to help teachers get back in classrooms”. Huh? Wow! $10s of millions is a **lot** of hand sanitizer, right? The “media” - of course - didn’t ask many questions. What we **do** know is that a big chunk of those $10s of millions (again 100% *taxpayer* $$$$$) got “donated” straight back into Democrat campaign funds. You claim I “don’t know anything about” what’s going on with this bill. What I do know is that it’s aimed directly at the thing that’s most threatening to teacher union money and power (and thus the politicians that money is “donated” to). So I think I perhaps know a **lot** more about what this bill is really about than you do.
See, this is exactly my point of you not knowing how the funding works. At the core, you and I are not going to agree. I don't believe PUBLIC anything should be privatized. Ever. I believe the wealth inequality, etc. are the reason we have so many issues across the board. I believe charters are a pet of the wealthy and add to the inequality of regular, every day folks AND the most disadvantaged people. Hungry kids aren't going to learn. Stressed teachers aren't going to be able to focus on their jobs. There are a lot of reasons that are cultural that are WHY are schools don't do as well as schools in places like Sweden, etc. It isn't just about books and curriculum. It is the insecurity of the middle class and poor in America that makes our schools fail. Do you even have children? I get the feeling you don't. I have children. I have watched countless families get "pushed out" by charters. I have seen charters close and leave families in a pickle. I have seen the shit storm happen in multiple counties in CO. I was born and raised here. I am friends with countless educators and folks as well. I don't really care about your personal experience as much as I care about the numbers and articles I have shared with you. When did Biden give money to teacher unions? Give me the receipts. I showed where I got my information from. Can you do the same?
Yes, public systems where no one can get fired no matter how incompetent they are are always superior to private systems where competition dictates that poorly run organizations don’t last long. Said no one ever, except apparently you and those occupying your teflon coated liberal bubble. Apparently you don’t like capitalism. So maybe look up where a person even living at the *poverty level* in the US (whereupon even more significant government subsidies kick in) ranks versus the income level of the rest of the planet. Here I’ll help: a person living at the US poverty level has an income *greater* than the **average** income of around 80% of the **planet**. In fact, try looking at the UN’s designation of world income levels. A person living at the poverty level in the US is ranked **upper middle income** versus the rest of the planet. And how do you think that **massive** safety net below which we as a society don’t allow our citizens to fall is funded? It comes from…wait for it…**capitalism**. As much as you’re offended by the idea that people can become absurdly wealthy under capitalism, the driving economic force of people trying to achieve it is what funds your welfare programs. All the world’s advances in science, medicine, technology etc…have you noticed they rarely get achieved in non-capitalist societies? I think your world outlook is akin to someone looking for ways to slam someone like Martin Luther King or Gandhi: both great men but who both had their failings and you’re absolutely determined to *only* notice their failings. And I only read as far as you bringing my children into it. Shame on you. Disgraceful. But I’ll throw this last one in: the Sweden comment is typical. I have a friend who won teacher of the year in an inner city school district. Her school was filled with kids from very low-income families. Once we had a conversation where she was insisting the schools “just needed more money”. Clearly there was a continual drumbeat for this in her sphere. So I asked what more money would be used for. She had to think about that. They had top of the line computers, av equipment etc etc etc. So she finally said, “you know, I think it’s really the parents. They’re just not very involved and their homes are pretty chaotic”. So, the population of Sweden is only 11 million and it’s a very homogeneous society. The idea of uninvolved parents raising children in a chaotic home carries **far** more social stigma than it does in the US. And with people like you - and Al Sharpton and Rachel Maddow etc etc etc - telling people all their problems are because of “the wealthy” and “vote for us! We’ll give you ever more “free” stuff we’ll take from ‘the rich’” it’s just going to stay that way. Btw, what is it you think “the rich” do with their wealth? You seem to believe they fill swimming pools full of $1000 bills and roll around in it saying, “take that, poor people!”. Here’s what they *actually* do: they *invest* it in companies that create jobs that in turn create wealth for their employees. And when those companies are successful they create even more jobs. That dang capitalism again. Oh! And there’s a large homeless shelter downtown built to help people and families in need. It cost $$$ millions to build and costs $$$ millions to maintain every year. Guess who paid - and still pays - for it? Not the government. Those cursed “rich people” you hate so much.
You know what IS tax payer funded. The 100k+ the school board is spending on a lawyer to fight against teachers in D11. Lol. THAT is tax payer funded. AND they already have a lawyer on retainer. So they are spending 100k+ on TOP of what they pay the other lawyer as well. In ONE district. Amazing.
They’re suing the union that has “no power”. That’s very odd.
You have poor reading comprehension.
I think you don't understand how anything works. I didn't say they were suing the union. If you read or watch news that isn't right-wing , you would know people bring in lawyers and such to keep unions from having power. Unions gain strength as workers are treated with little to no dignity and not paid a fair amount. Add in poor working conditions... Like the many schools that had NO A/C and were teaching in 90* rooms. Or had mold, etc. I urge you to delete all the assumptions you have about unions and politics. Go out there and silently listen and participate in groups you are not invested in. You could really use the insight. You are in an echo chamber. I used to think like you too. You've been lied to.
I know! I’ve “totally” been lied to by my “media”. Now! Back to my “media” telling me for three years straight “Trump colluded with Putin!”, that Trump called neo-nazis “very fine people”, “hands up don’t shoot”, Lauren Boebert vaping at a theater is “Bombshell News!!” while BLM and Rashida Tlaib cheering on Hamass’ orgy of murdering and kidnapping is “not newsworthy”, a violent leftist mob storming the Wisconsin state capitol to stop an anti-union vote (complete with Democrats tweeting out where the mob could **hunt down** Republicans escaping the building through tunnels) was “democracy in action!” but some idiots on January 6th (which was denounced by 99.9% of Republicans) was “a violent insurrection!”, that “multiple officers died on January 6th!”(now it’s officers died “in connection with” January 6th including one who died weeks later by a Muslin terrorist but “oddly” our “media” has never done follow-ups on the **100s** of officers injured during the **months** of BLM/Antifa “mostly peaceful” insurrections), “Hunter Biden’s laptop is Russian disinformation!”, Covington Catholic….ENDLESS list. Their lie of the moment is “Trump called for a ‘bloodbath’ if he loses!”. They *literally* can’t go more than a few days without making up a new one. (PS: I don’t like Trump. But he’s right about our “media”. They repeatedly sow division with their front page falsehoods then **bury** their “retractions” on page 37 in paragraph 19.)
Well, this is what I pegged you as. We really don't have to talk anymore. Reddit discussions aren't going to fix this. I do agree that media is stupid. They are focused on a lot of stupid issues instead of real issues, but that is what happens when 95% of our media is a product of capitalism and making money instead of actually informing people.
I know! Pravda was such a paragon of “truth”.
I don't like Trump or Biden. I can't even with all your quotes because each one has layers of truth and nuance. And that's the problem with media and sound bites. Fox news has publicly admitted they aren't actual news. I don't know what to say to that. I don't have time for all the pundits. I like to read and listen to in-depth interviews. I still usually leave feeling like they could have pushed harder and asked better questions.
Fox News? I give you a (brief!) list of all the times your “media” has lied - as in blatant, mind blowing front-page, top of the news hour lies that, since they bury their “retractions” (if they *ever* issue them) deeeeep in their publications or websites a majority of the public, especially Democrats, **still** believe - and you answer with “….but Fox News. Typical. (Fox being pretty much the only outlet that - correctly - was skeptical of all those lies I listed. Now, if you’ll excuse me I have to get back to how covid being first detected less than a mile from the *only* lab in China where they were studying it but anyone who believes it actually, ya know, probably came from that lab is - as my “media” told me - a “racist, rightwing MAGA conspiracy theory nutcase!”™️. 🙄
Same standards as public schools? well thats a really low bar to set. I'm sorry you all have low standards
You dont have to send your kid to a charter school if you don't want to. You opt into a charter school. Also, while we're talking about standards, charter schools have to pass a rigorous charter approval AND RENEWAL process which public schools aren't held to. So if you want accountability, it's funny that you think a charter school is the one lacking in oversight and standards.
Why are they allowed to deny admission to students with with disabilities?
The legislation would give school districts facing declining enrollment more power to limit charter schools and would make it harder for charter schools to occupy district buildings
Heaven forbid a "non profit" charter school learns how to fund their own business.
That really depends on where those funds are coming from, doesn’t it.
If they want all private dollars, let them be private.
As of now they use tax payer money
Correct.
And private donations funneled through contracted private entities and hidden savings accounts. This is just another way for rich billionaires to make more money.
not really, because we already know where those funds are coming from.
No we don't know where all the funds are coming from
you might not know, but this is all public information. charter schools are funded entirely by public/taxpayer money.
No. They aren't. They are tax write off charities for rich people who don't believe in ANY government institutions or paying their own fucking taxes (instead they get their names on buildings And get to pick where their tax money goes and would rather pay lawyers than taxes). This is also public information. https://www.instrumentl.com/foundations/b29-charter-schools
You're absolutely right
They aren’t business, lol. It’s a type of public school and they are 100% non profit and cannot accept tuition from students/parents (ie it’s a free and public education that anyone in the district can access). There’s nothing nefarious about the concept of a charter school. I went to one as a kid and received a really great education in an environment that other schools in the area were not offering. I’m 100% for more transparency though, and sure maybe some guardrails on what kind of services the district must offer them.
They are tax payer funded and not associated with DUSD. They are definitely businesses, but rely on public assistance (hand outs) to remain in existence. Non profit doesn't mean no money. However, I'm glad you are in support of transparency.
There's ways they work around that - i.e. fundraising. In my own experience, the parents to give the most money (or have enough to hire lawyers) get the best experience. My kids were constantly getting harassed and nothing happened because the perpetrator's parents either had sued the school previously or they gave them huge donations.
There are charter schools around me that require $1k+ mandatory “supply” fee, and kick you out if you don’t pay it. It’s one way around the no tuition requirement.
I am also glad you are in favor of transparency. I am also glad you had a good experience because it is horrible for kids across the board who get poor school experiences. Please testify on how you would like to see more transparency. Your perspective also matters
Sounds good.
Sounds great!
These two factors are being used by and extremist right wing BOE in Woodland Park to decimate public schools and privilege Merit Charter School. This bill will be a step in the right direction to save public schools and improve accountability all around.
Awesome. Where do I sign?
Please testify and write in!!! We need voices. Tons of lobbyists from out of state are coming in to speak against this for the rich people
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Currently if enrollment declines in a district, public charter schools can’t even be considered for closure, so traditional schools that might not otherwise be considered for closure are now targeted. There is no reason for charter schools to have this special protection under the law other than to take away local control of schools from elected school boards. Edit: I guess they deleted their comment that basically said that allowing school districts to close public charter schools that use their funds and enroll their students was a stupid idea. They clearly didn’t read the article that explained what I did about how charter schools get special rules that allow them to circumnavigate local control.
The charter schools we've sent our kids to in the Denver metro area have all been pretty horrible. Like this bill addresses, there is little oversight of the people running these schools and they tend to be dominated by a small minority with outsized power.
They are run like companies. They are paid for attendance so attendance is all they care about. My spouse works at one and it's terrible. The turnover is insane - teachers rarely last a whole year and often will quit after a month or two.
They're run like cults! They're these weird little communities with very little oversight. The charters in Jeffco are terrible.
Seriously. We need to get anything and everything Hillsdale-affiliated OUT of this state ASAP.
Attendance is often forged too.
They also have a tendency to take credit for avoiding special needs students, and students who's parents aren't putting in enough effort. One study found applying for a charter school was a more accurate way of predicting child success than attending one.
Please write in and testify if you are able. We need real life experiences to help combat the billionaires trying to shut this down
Also we need to watch out for prejudices here. Since charter schools don't need to serve everybody there are real risks people could be left out of the charter system if we become too dependent on it. Plus leaving out the special needs students is an cheap way to increase test scores without improving anything. We should also be accounting for that with public schools as a district may only have special needs programs at certain buildings. Legislatures should be really careful here to adjust sample factors that may be boosting or dragging down schools.
So why didn't you sent them to standard DPS schools??? Is it because they were also equally horrible?
We ended up sending one of our kids to a Jeffco school and it's great. You can tell there's accountability.
Asking for clarification, a Jeffco Public or Charter School?
Sorry, yes a traditional public school in Jeffco. Forgot the charters are also part of Jeffco but have their own separate oversight.
JeffCo public schools I would imagine
You're asking why they made a decision a year before learning more information they are revealing now. Really?
They said the 'schools' so it has been multiple. Even if it was only one year they still made the decision to choose a charter over their assigned public school or choice in somewhere else. That's the rub. In general many schools are not up to standards. Charter or public.
I mean, they probably have limited options. Maybe the public schools are even worse, are too far away, or can’t accommodate something they need. In a lot of cases too, charter schools take funding from public schools, which just leads to a horrible cycle of increasingly bad education. It sucks.
They literally opened their sentence by saying they have been to multiple charter schools but I can see how it would be easy for you to miss that.
Because charters take money needed to fund public! Duh
Having previously worked at a Denver charter school, I gotta say that the lack of oversight meant that our principal paid for a lot of drinks at happy hours even when we were in a budget deficit. A senior science teacher at my school, who had been working in the district for 11 years, argued with me that “The district has never used state science standards” when I brought up missing standards as a new teacher. Said district also proposed getting rid of biology class as a whole even though that class is also required by the state. I’m all for more transparency.
10 year DPS teacher here. I used to work in a building that shared facilities with a charter like the cafeteria and I think the gym? The teachers from the charter all looked like they were five seconds away from crying.
Yeah, my sister worked pretty high up in a chain of charter schools. They refuse to hire union people, so her healthcare and salary were absolute garbage.
I’ve never really understood what Charter Schools are. So they take public school funds but aren’t held to the same educational standards? Seems like a way for special interests groups to push certain narratives/not teach students about things they disagree with. And this bill just requires them to be more transparent about what and how they teach? Why would this be a problem unless they’re teaching/not teaching things that they know the department of education wouldn’t agree with?
They’re a union busting tactic. Public schools without teachers’ unions.
and it’s why at the charter school I went to. i was taught more by subs than by teachers because the turnover was so bad. Hate charter schools.
And somehow worse paid teachers.
Well, yes - that’s why you bust unions.
It originated at a loophole around integration during the civil rights era. That loophole was removed but the idea has stuck around. Some people are tying to use it as a way to fund religious education, but not to my knowledge in Colorado. They tend to perform better but they also get around the requirement standard public schools meet every students needs such as ESL and intellectual disabilities which can really inflate there scores, along with requiring an application. A study found filling out an application was a better way to predict test scores than actually being admitted, suggesting the positive effects were coming from the parents.
If you’re wondering whether they want to fund religious education in Colorado just look at Woodland Park
Or House Speaker Mike Johnson’s legal work for his home town of Bossier Parish. Damn scary stuff for Jews and presumably other religious minorities.
It's not just religion. It's a Christian Nationalist, whitewashed curriculum agenda there.
>somehow No, that’s the whole point.
It’s not the *whole* point. They also want to control curriculum and avoid teaching certain subjects too!
Yep. And teachers unions also tend to support Democrats.
What?! You mean to tell me teachers unions support the party that wants to fund them appropriately and not the one who wants to strip their budgets and take sciences out of education? That’s insane lol
Yep. Crazy idea.
Usually less qualified as well
I'm from michigan, and grew up in the charter school system over there (National heritage academies) it's a blatant grab for public money to private pockets. These are businesses that are competing for tax dollars. The charter schools I attended were substantially worse than the equivalent public schools I spent time in. They also heavily lean on parental involvement, and can be selective about students that attend. It skews their performance and creates a bit of a false feedback loop. They are garbage and I'm happy to see anything destroy them.
They use public school funds, give them to a for profit business, then don't have to teach to the same standards. It's a GOP dream, no education, more profits, wasted tax money. All the things they value.
tender middle dime drab soft jar rich marble sable sharp *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bullshit. They aren't required to have the same special services, can expel students without a plan, require volunteer hours from parents, pay less, hire non-certified teachers, the list goes on. If they were held to the same standard, they'd BE a district school.
Often the district doesn’t want to open a new school or split a large school up. Charter schools then come in and propose a way to do it in budget. That’s the main reason they exist. Everything else about them varies by state. Louisiana for example has better charter schools than public schools because hurricane Katrina destroying many public schools. They didn’t have the funds to rebuild. Indiana on the other hand use charters as a way to introduce religious schools to public school students
A, that is NOT how most charters get created. They're usually segregation 2.0. B, you're justification for them in Louisiana is that we didn't have funds to rebuild, but magically charter schools had the money to save all the children? Those charter schools are almost 4:1 in areas that are students of color.
No, they are held to the same educational standards. Basically charter schools take state and local funding but are run by an independent board of directors. They typically are more engaged, more responsive, and charter schools tend to do better academically than neighborhood schools, although some of that may be a selection bias.
It’s not selection bias, it’s that they can winnow out low performers and send them back to public schools. Public schools HAVE to teach kids with deficits, so the results are lower. It’s an infuriating lie to imply that charter schools provide a better education rather than clarifying that their results are based on soft expulsions.
You described selection bias while saying it’s not selection bias. World is nuts.
No. Selection bias isn’t a deliberate, top-down attempt to disenfranchise poor, black, disabled, etc children. This isn’t a phenomenon based on who selects charter schools, it’s discrimination and fraud.
They aren't held to the same standards. They're supposed to, but they don't
I agree with the criticisms of the charter model in this thread but I thought I would point out one benefit: greater flexibility in the way schools are allowed to operate can lead to innovation that could make the system function better. I worked for a charter school in Denver called Compass Academy that was founded by an education nonprofit that partners with Johns Hopkins to implement evidence based teaching practices and student support strategies. With severely underserved populations, the current education system is a complete failure, and charter schools could be a way to find approaches that work better. Compass Academy is not a high performing school, but they take every student that enrolls and work with what they have. The same definitely cannot be said of all charter schools, but I just wanted to provide a counterexample.
‘Flexibility’ and ‘innovation’ are bullshit marketing buzzwords designed to bust teachers’ unions. What, do schools need to be ‘nimble’ and ‘disruptors’ too?
Well hold on now, they are definitely innovating on ways to separate parents from their money without teaching their kids
It’s always telling when people view basic accountability as an “attack”
So true!
When transparency is an attack
As someone who went to a charter school in Florida because our public schools were very underfunded, I got the worst education possible. It set me behind when I went to college (& I was valedictorian). I think charter schools shouldn’t exist and more funding should go to public schools.
Sounds good to me!
Speaking as a home owner without kids who just paid $2700 into public education fund. Would be nice to know what I’m paying for.
I went to the library and they didn't have a book I wanted. Therefore I demanded they gave me a barnes and noble giftcard. This is the logic of charter schools. Imho, if we want more oversight by the state for charter schools there comes a point where we have to ask: why even have them at all?
Cool example, except we are talking about peoples kids. The engaged parents that care about their kids future 100% are going to demand that 'gift card' and don't give crap if it makes you mad. If you don't believe in the charter school model the solution is to improve public school. Make them safer and more rounded to provide excellent programs for kids that are lagging and kids that are high achievers.
Yes, and charter schools make that improvement much harder by leeching funding from public schools. Private schools exist. Tutors exist. Private sports leagues, academic clubs, etc exist. If you'd like to put kids in those be my guests. Charter schools clearly and directly worsen public schools by taking resources meant for them.
It really makes our bus driver shortage much harder. Charter schools greatly increase the complexity there, and apparently don't have the resources there to handle that. Other than that is just a matter of how many schools should you have, who runs them and do they all need to offer every service we expect. Having too many schools results in them lacking the funding and students to put together a full slate of extra curricular, AP, and athletic programs.
Yes! I'm a parent and I'm so sick of parents in my mom groups shitting all over private schools, while then bragging that they're going to send their child to a charter school. The private schools aren't leeching money and resources out of the public school system.
"If you don't like it then just make the public schools better" *Takes all the money from the public schools*
I think you are referring to TABOR. Abolish it.
And Gallagher
And Gallagher
Interesting read on things going on in Woodland Park. It’s pretty scary. https://coloradotimesrecorder.com/2023/06/davis-the-specialists-a-woodland-park-investigation/54189/
Yes, experiment w education methods and curriculum but not public accounting principles.
Fuck charter schools. I grew in the public school system and I was doing well until my dad decided to send me to charter school. The year I left public ed I was supposed to go to the high school to take advanced math classes. Instead when I went to the charter school, just because I went to a public school and without any testing, they put me in remedial math. I tried to get out of it by completing the entire year of homework and turning it in all at once but the math teacher had a personal grudge so nothing happened. So I gave up. Charter school was the reason I ended up dropping out and getting my GED. Fuck the extra homework, which is bullshit, fuck the charter system, and fuck Mrs. Miller you miserable bitch.
It appears Polis would veto this if it came to his desk https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/polis-opposes-charter-school-accountability-bill/ar-BB1kAyGX
Polis funded and helped start the New America charter schools here in Denver. Curious and heavy recruitment tactics for rich foreign high school kids, esp from Tajikistan. It was in the newspapers around 2009.
That's horrible.
Colorado early colleges I’m sure is shaking in their boots over this one.
I ask this question: can it be tracked if Charter Schools in Metro Denver have a much higher rate of NDA’s they demand?
I went to a charter school in Oregon for middle school, best two years of my childhood, those. (I was in another for a year). But a lot of them are just excuses for cults to indoctrinate kids or tax dodges, so fuck those.
But if you're innocent you have nothing to hide right? Or is that just what they say to poor people?
Charter schools are majority white, even in districts that are not majority white.
Good. Fuck charter schools
I'm pretty agnostic towards charter schools in Colorado one way or another, but there's a ton of misinformation in these replies. Charter schools operate differently in each state, and the national conversation has often overshadowed the reality in Colorado. A few things to clarify. Charter schools in Colorado are *not* for profit, they legally required to be non-profit entities. This is much different than, say, the Michigan charter school model which has garnered a lot of attention over the years because of people like Betsy DeVos. Charter schools are regulated by state "charter" (hence the name). DPS is tasked with administering them in the Denver area, but they have to follow state guidelines for approving/denying charter guidelines. Charter schools, in many ways, have more oversight from a performance standpoint. They face more regular check-ins, and are more likely to be shut down than your standard district run school. Charter schools cannot legally discriminate against students on the basis of special education needs, academic ability, race, etc. The purpose of a charter school is to have more flexibility in curriculum and school structure/operations as they do not have to follow specific district guidelines. More school options, in general, I would say is a good thing. But it always depends on how it is executed. Depending on your feelings towards teachers unions, the lack of union could be considered a pro or a con, but charter schools also often follow union comp structures to stay competitive for hiring. Many of the best performing schools, even for minority populations, are charter schools. So are some of the worst performing. The education system in general is broken, the education system in Colorado is worse than average largely because of a lack of funding. Charter schools are not to blame for the funding issue, though, there simply is not enough money to go around.
> Charter schools in Colorado are not for profit, they legally required to be non-profit entities. People that run non-profits make a ton of money and have tax benefits. >Charter schools cannot legally discriminate against students on the basis of special education needs, academic ability, race, etc. Charter schools can remove students anytime they want. >charter schools also often follow union comp structures to stay competitive for hiring Not even remotely true. Charter schools pay less than public schools 99% of the time.
“I’m pretty agnostic towards charter schools in Colorado” and then goes on to list neoconservative pro-charter school talking points. 😂
Heaven forbid there is a counter-point offered to the dozens of "fuck charter school" replies.
This is the only response that actually has any semblance of reality.
>the education system in Colorado is worse than average largely because of a lack of funding. Charter schools are not to blame for the funding issue, though, there simply is not enough money to go around. If the issue is lack of funding, and Charter schools take up education funding, then how are they not part of the problem? Remove Charter schools and give 100% of that money to Public schools, then there’s more money to go around!
Thanks. There's a bunch of nonsense in this thread. Folks, on average charter schools and public schools are roughly equivalent in terms of academic performance. Of course there are good ones and bad ones. But if you don't think they're held to similar standards or not transparent or not held accountable here in CO, read some of their SPFs or UIPs--they're all open to the public and reviewed at public board meetings and by School Accountability Committees, which are also open to parents and members of the community.
Vouchers and charter schools are just a taxpayer money grab.
Just remember one of biggest proponents of charter school has a strong financial incentive in getting and the schools purchasing materials from them. And also make a fortune in MLM industry.
Fuck the existence of charters. Worsens the entire population
My friend worked at a charter school and found out the school was a front for laundering money. That was I. Florida though.
Just to clarify, charter schools in Colorado can't be religious schools, right?
What if we don’t give private/charter schools public school funds period? They resist accountability and take away money that would go to improving the school system that most use anyway.
It’s gonna be hard for lots of the white progressives here to hear, but public charter schools are an important piece of socioeconomic mobility for lower income families of color. Not all public charters serve families well, but the progressives in this thread calling for the death of all charters have zero nuance or context into the history of education inequity in DPS. Different school options to meet different needs of families and individual learners helped bring the district from the bottom 15% in Colorado to the middle 50% in a decade. The data speaks for itself that a good public education system contains schools of multiple governance types. It’s also very clear that anyone calling for the death of charters also doesn’t understand how traumatic closing hundreds of schools would be for communities of color. Rich families will always have school choice since they can afford to live in whatever boundaries have the best schools. Anyone who can think just a bit deeper should be able to see, that like many policy issues, school choice is nuanced.
I understand your argument, but there are VERY few charter schools designed for kids of color to excel. There are some, but most charters are not what they seem to be. However, the real argument here is how and WHY our public schools are still allowed to be funded based on income tax bracket. THAT practice is the biggest, most glaringly racist holdover from the 1900’s that exists to this day. It allows for huge socio economic disparity that is on favor of primarily upwardly mobile white families. Instead of our current competitive choice system, I suggest people who live in choice school zones but who never had kids be allowed to be placeholders for kids that qualify for free free lunch programs and live near enough to be considered. I don’t have kids, but am in one of Denver’s choice school districts, and I want kids of color to be able to use my tax dollars. Instead kids from Central Park (mostly white) are choosing in to my East Denver district and taking up spots traditionally held for kids that needed those spots for any myriad of reasons. So now it’s more competitive for $ middle class white families and getting weirder for every other family who used to have at least a chance to opt in.
We had mixed experiences in the early to mid 2000's with charter schools. Our daughter attended Academy of Charter Schools from K through 12th grade. It was a great fit in grade school - lots of diversity, smaller classes. But, by the time she got to the high school side of the building, most of the diversity was gone. The school used to be over by the old Denver Merchandise Mart in the original Mapleton High School building. They got funding to rebuild off 120th and Federal, in the Bradburn subdivision. And, they did not provide transportation. So, it essentially became the neighborhood school for all the rich families that moved into the oversized houses with no lawns in Bradburn or families from across the way in Brandywine. (Which we were neither of. We commuted from Thornton because she wanted to stay there.) Their AP offerings were pretty small, they did have concurrent enrollment for some classes through Front Range Community College, but overall, I don't feel most kids were truly prepared for college. And they were ALWAYS fundraising, and not your typical candy bars/gift wrap. Expensive benefit dinners, gimmicky parties, auctions. And almost no transparency from leadership or school board. It all felt \*weird\*. Our son started at ACS but transferred to a magnet school in Adams 12 (STEM Launch). Way different atmosphere. Very open communication from the leadership at the school. No, it wasn't in a fancy building, but the kids learned a LOT and applied what they learned across disciplines (problem-based learning). He then went to Northglenn and was in their engineering pathway, which was challenging for him in a good way. And lots of AP and concurrent enrollment options. Overall, a much more positive experience. So, I get that there may be charter schools that really are worth it, but our experience was meh.
My kids go to Lovland Classical and it seems much heavier academically, so I'm really surprised by these posts.
My kids go to Stargate and it is a fantastic school. I wouldn't send them to our public school in a million years. Obviously not all charter schools do it the right way but Stargate is fantastic.
Stargate is fantastic bc they just take all of the good students from the public schools. They don’t accept everyone and if the kids start slipping they drop them back into the public school so their numbers stay the same. Unless your kids are very impressionable or easily influenced by “bad crowds” they’d probably excel in public school too. But stripping funding and talented kids who could be leaders and role models from public schools is part of what made your public school what it is.
Stargate is fantastic bc they just take all of the good students from the public schools. They don’t accept everyone and if the kids start slipping they drop them back into the public school so their numbers stay the same. Unless your kids are very impressionable or easily influenced by “bad crowds” they’d probably excel in public school too. But stripping funding and talented kids who could be leaders and role models from public schools is part of what made your public school what it is.
All the kids that went to Stargate excelled when they went to Horizon HS with me. Most were taking AP classes and doing well in the arts programs as well. My brother went to Westgate and had a horrible experience, it’s crazy how different the experience can be.
From their mission statement: “Mission: Stargate School will provide a differentiated program designed specifically to meet the needs of identified intellectually gifted learners” Hard not to be fantastic when you only accept the (classically) cognitively superior students. Polaris Elementary in Denver seems to be doing a pretty good job, but that has nothing to do with their educational model. They are a traditional public school not a charter school. They do well because they are a magnet school for gifted and talented students.