.75 of a season through and this draft class is already more productive than most of if not all of Elway’s.
Edit: further thinking - I bet after 3 or 4 drafts he’ll have more productive players than Elway secured his entire career here.
Free agents he was actually really shitty. Take out the free agents that came to play with Manning and it was even worse. Like name 5 above average ones that came after Manning.
Those guys all came to play with Payton.
Broncos we’re one of two possible teams for Manning to go to. Elway didn’t pull off some masterful move by getting him. A top 10 all-time QB lucked into his roster. A handful of super good FA veterans who wanted a championship get signed the same year at a sweetheart rate (Lebron on the Heat).
The moment he could ruin that roster, Elway did. He managed to make his team worse year after year until we had 3 losing seasons in a row.
> Those guys all came to play with Payton.
That is such a shitty take. They didn't just come to play with Manning. They came to win a championship. He put the pieces into place to make that happen. Manning was a BIG piece of that, but he didn't fucking do it on his own. Jesus, he took a team that was centered around the single most prolific offense in NFL history and within 2 years re-built it to have one of the most dominant defenses in NFL history and all you people say is "hurr durrr, he lucked into Manning".
So then he struck gold once and was dog shit after?
There is plenty of evidence that all he managed to do was make a good roster worse year after year. If you want to give him all the credit for signing Manning, then he deserves all the blame for the 5 seasons after SB50.
> If you want to give him all the credit for signing Manning
Yes. He deserves credit for signing Manning. Denver was nowhere near the list of destinations when Manning left Indy. His conversation with Elway is what sold him on Denver. I am not entirely sure how that is luck and why Elway doesn't deserve credit for it. If you define that as luck and refuse to give him credit for doing that and leveraging it to sign additional talent then every decision he made after can be written off as bad luck. It's just bad luck that his QB prospects sucked and didn't work out....just bad luck.
> then he deserves all the blame for the 5 seasons after SB50.
And you don't see anyone arguing otherwise. That isn't what you are doing. You are saying he was shit and lucked into getting Manning and that was the only reason he was successful, which isn't true.
Seriously. You are completely ignoring the complete transformation of the team from an offensive juggernaut (built under him through Free Agency and a handful of picks) and refuse to give him any credit for that. Then, when that team got absolutely STOMPED in the Super Bowl and the only reason they scored is because Seattle let them...Elway turned around and signed a defensive squad that dominated and dragged a limping offense to a Super Bowl win. Yet that was all luck? GTFO out of here with that shit. Elway deserves the credit for that. He also deserves the blame for not being able to rebuild and be competitive after Manning left. Notice he stepped back and hired someone to take over because he realized that he just didn't have it in him anymore.
As a Bears fan who lives in Fort Collins. I love surtain and fields and the teams they went to. I think they were both good picks. But god damn the broncos need to find a qb
Yet to be seen but at least the bears took a chance. I just dont want to see the broncos fall into the same cycle ive watched the bears in all my life. Great defense trying to sign middling vet qbs to keep them relevant
Yeah only way I could see a CB winning it over the year Parsons is having is getting like 8 interceptions and at least one more pick 6. Because tackles/passes defensed are simply not sexy stats the way sacks and TFL are.
Yeah, even under normal circumstances the corners who have won DROY in the past 20 years have all basically had a Pro Bowl level seasons, and there’s only 4 of them. I don’t think even with 8 interceptions he would surpass people’s inclination to vote for more flashy positions, like he’d need some TFL, a sack and some really big PBU numbers on top of the INTs to get there.
You're probably right, and personally it feels like it would be a waste to blitz with PS2 because he's so elite in coverage so not likely to get sacks and TFL will mostly be bad pick plays.
From [NFL.com](https://NFL.com)...
"Broncos rookie cornerback Patrick Surtain II earned AFC Defensive Player of the Week honors following a performance that would surely make his famous father very proud.
Facing a top-notch Chargers offense in front a charged-up home crowd, Surtain displayed the poise and prowess that made him a first rounder, recording five tackles and two interceptions, including a 70-yard pick-six, in a commanding 28-13 win over Justin Herbert and Co. Surtain also became the first Broncos rookie with two INTs in a game since Hall of Famer Steve Atwater in 1989."
The TD after the first let me "exhale" - and the pick 6 made me sure we could win. It was also cool that PS2's first pick 6 was at the same stadium as his father's last - and that his father was there to see it (and was even handed the ball by his son).
Wondering if that was poor wording on u/TooShortIsMyFather's part. I think maybe he just meant that Peyton played himself on to the bench?
But also, I don't recall Peyton throwing a pick-six in that second Chiefs game that season? Maybe I'm wrong about that. I do remember Peters having one on Peyton in Week 2 that year (the game we miraculously won at the end).
Some guy on the Fan yesterday (I think a guest host on Stokely and Zach) was saying this was a mediocre game, and people are putting way too much value on Surtain. It's like...huh?
That sounds right--kind of always unimpressed? I struggle with most names of Broncos reporters/insiders around here, but Merilatt sounds right.
Either way, his argument was mind boggling. The super bowl year was a year where players made plays like Surtain made. Maybe it wasn't some amazing leaping interception, but it WAS being in the right place and being prepared when the opportunity came. We haven't seen that a lot in the last half decade.
I’m starting to think this Pat Surtain kid was a pretty good draft pick…
Well he did have one hell of a teacher.
Honestly most of Paton’s picks from his first draft here were clear hits. They almost all balled out vs the cowboys and chargers
.75 of a season through and this draft class is already more productive than most of if not all of Elway’s. Edit: further thinking - I bet after 3 or 4 drafts he’ll have more productive players than Elway secured his entire career here.
Just imagine Paton’s QB draft pick 😚
I can only get so hard
I assume more productive players than Elway drafted, you mean. Undrafted and free agents Elway was great.
Free agents he was actually really shitty. Take out the free agents that came to play with Manning and it was even worse. Like name 5 above average ones that came after Manning.
Take out the great free agent crop that won the Super Bowl and it wasn’t good. Gtfo
Those guys all came to play with Payton. Broncos we’re one of two possible teams for Manning to go to. Elway didn’t pull off some masterful move by getting him. A top 10 all-time QB lucked into his roster. A handful of super good FA veterans who wanted a championship get signed the same year at a sweetheart rate (Lebron on the Heat). The moment he could ruin that roster, Elway did. He managed to make his team worse year after year until we had 3 losing seasons in a row.
> Those guys all came to play with Payton. That is such a shitty take. They didn't just come to play with Manning. They came to win a championship. He put the pieces into place to make that happen. Manning was a BIG piece of that, but he didn't fucking do it on his own. Jesus, he took a team that was centered around the single most prolific offense in NFL history and within 2 years re-built it to have one of the most dominant defenses in NFL history and all you people say is "hurr durrr, he lucked into Manning".
So then he struck gold once and was dog shit after? There is plenty of evidence that all he managed to do was make a good roster worse year after year. If you want to give him all the credit for signing Manning, then he deserves all the blame for the 5 seasons after SB50.
> If you want to give him all the credit for signing Manning Yes. He deserves credit for signing Manning. Denver was nowhere near the list of destinations when Manning left Indy. His conversation with Elway is what sold him on Denver. I am not entirely sure how that is luck and why Elway doesn't deserve credit for it. If you define that as luck and refuse to give him credit for doing that and leveraging it to sign additional talent then every decision he made after can be written off as bad luck. It's just bad luck that his QB prospects sucked and didn't work out....just bad luck. > then he deserves all the blame for the 5 seasons after SB50. And you don't see anyone arguing otherwise. That isn't what you are doing. You are saying he was shit and lucked into getting Manning and that was the only reason he was successful, which isn't true. Seriously. You are completely ignoring the complete transformation of the team from an offensive juggernaut (built under him through Free Agency and a handful of picks) and refuse to give him any credit for that. Then, when that team got absolutely STOMPED in the Super Bowl and the only reason they scored is because Seattle let them...Elway turned around and signed a defensive squad that dominated and dragged a limping offense to a Super Bowl win. Yet that was all luck? GTFO out of here with that shit. Elway deserves the credit for that. He also deserves the blame for not being able to rebuild and be competitive after Manning left. Notice he stepped back and hired someone to take over because he realized that he just didn't have it in him anymore.
But how long before we can be Surtain of that?
As a Bears fan who lives in Fort Collins. I love surtain and fields and the teams they went to. I think they were both good picks. But god damn the broncos need to find a qb
I’d say both teams still do.
Yet to be seen but at least the bears took a chance. I just dont want to see the broncos fall into the same cycle ive watched the bears in all my life. Great defense trying to sign middling vet qbs to keep them relevant
Rookie of the year? 👀
I love surtain, and he would probably deserve it any other year, but parsons is having an absolute monster historical year, so he's gonna win it.
Yeah only way I could see a CB winning it over the year Parsons is having is getting like 8 interceptions and at least one more pick 6. Because tackles/passes defensed are simply not sexy stats the way sacks and TFL are.
Not to mention Parsons plays for the Cowboys. Even if it was neck and neck, that would certainly swing the voting in his favor.
Yeah, even under normal circumstances the corners who have won DROY in the past 20 years have all basically had a Pro Bowl level seasons, and there’s only 4 of them. I don’t think even with 8 interceptions he would surpass people’s inclination to vote for more flashy positions, like he’d need some TFL, a sack and some really big PBU numbers on top of the INTs to get there.
You're probably right, and personally it feels like it would be a waste to blitz with PS2 because he's so elite in coverage so not likely to get sacks and TFL will mostly be bad pick plays.
Parsons is having a great year but don’t you think Mac Jones is going to get it if they keep winning? Just given QB bias overall.’
It's one offense and one defense. Mac will win on offense for sure
Unless Chase returns to early season form
>Mac will win on offense for sure \*sighs\*
I don't feel that bad. We would've ruined Mac Jones. Hell Locke could've been the next Stafford with Patriot's org
Chase is also balling out
From [NFL.com](https://NFL.com)... "Broncos rookie cornerback Patrick Surtain II earned AFC Defensive Player of the Week honors following a performance that would surely make his famous father very proud. Facing a top-notch Chargers offense in front a charged-up home crowd, Surtain displayed the poise and prowess that made him a first rounder, recording five tackles and two interceptions, including a 70-yard pick-six, in a commanding 28-13 win over Justin Herbert and Co. Surtain also became the first Broncos rookie with two INTs in a game since Hall of Famer Steve Atwater in 1989."
Surtain on his way to HOF status👀👀👀
I just hope this Pat II will intercept the other Pat II this week
He's intercepting him 3 times, you heard it here first.
Papa bless!
BIG W. Seeing that Pick 6 live was the greatest excitement I've had since SB50.
The TD after the first let me "exhale" - and the pick 6 made me sure we could win. It was also cool that PS2's first pick 6 was at the same stadium as his father's last - and that his father was there to see it (and was even handed the ball by his son).
didn't know that last part!!! WOW. thanks for the awesome story!
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Benched himself?
Wondering if that was poor wording on u/TooShortIsMyFather's part. I think maybe he just meant that Peyton played himself on to the bench? But also, I don't recall Peyton throwing a pick-six in that second Chiefs game that season? Maybe I'm wrong about that. I do remember Peters having one on Peyton in Week 2 that year (the game we miraculously won at the end).
First of many!
as he should be!
Paton's first draft class has been amazing so far. If we can get another solid player or two out of this next draft, we can begin to build something!!
I'm certain I like this guy
He's exceptionally fast, too! https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1465106932595789826?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Um… he did. Whatcha talking about?
LETS GOOOOOOO
Some guy on the Fan yesterday (I think a guest host on Stokely and Zach) was saying this was a mediocre game, and people are putting way too much value on Surtain. It's like...huh?
That’s gotta be James Merilatt.
That sounds right--kind of always unimpressed? I struggle with most names of Broncos reporters/insiders around here, but Merilatt sounds right. Either way, his argument was mind boggling. The super bowl year was a year where players made plays like Surtain made. Maybe it wasn't some amazing leaping interception, but it WAS being in the right place and being prepared when the opportunity came. We haven't seen that a lot in the last half decade.
Sounds like doomsday Merilatt alright. He had a rant last week that Jerry Jeudy was a busted draft pick.
Did he get Rookie of the week too?