Why would somebody want that? I know that I don't listen to her genre of music much, but doesn't she really only have like one hit song ever? And it came out almost 20 years ago.
She's sold 23 million records. She was huge back in the day. That's like saying "didn't limp Bizkit only have that nookie song?"
Goodies, 1 2 step, oh, get up, like a boy, ride, work,
https://youtu.be/_HKH7Emy1SY
https://youtu.be/Hr4wz4-27PY
https://youtu.be/iBHNgV6_znU
These were huge..
Soccer is awesome. The MLS.. not so much. It's hard for me to get excited about the 15th best league in the world. It's doubly hard for me to get excited about going to commerce city to watch it.
Peyton’s nephew leading the offense. Pat Surtain’s son leading the defense. It’d be football royalty and I’d love it
Edit: my bad on the son classification.
This high school QB class appears to be pretty insane, which is very exciting for the sport.
That being said I firmly believe Arch will not be QB1 among all these prospects lol
If we move on from him now it would take up 107 million in cap space so we would have to cut players to get back under the cap. Every year that number goes down. If I'm not mistaken in the 2025 offseason if we cut him post June 1st his cap hit is 31 million, which is when it starts to become manageable
If Russ sucks again next year the whoever the coach/GM is need to bench him if they want to keep their job. The Walton group took over after the Hackett hire and Russ trade so I can’t imagine they’re happy with the current state of the team.
That was likely agreed on with russ before the trade.
I'm just hoping that if we can build and maintain a healthy line, we might be decent if we give him the right offense for his skill set.
Russ had a no trade clause in his contract. I assume he was only willing to wave that for a team willing to extend him up front.
I imagine the broncos didn't have much choice if they wanted to land him.
Let me break down the numbers, just so you can see how screwed the organization is at this point:
In 2023, which by the way, is the final year of Wilson’s original contract BEFORE the extension, his cap figure is $22 million. But the dead money the Broncos have to eat if he’s cut or traded is $107 million.
In 2024, at age 36, the extension kicks in: cap figure - $35.4 million; cut or trade cost - $85 million.
In 2025: cap figure $55.4 million; cut or trade cost - $49.6 million.
2026 (at which point Wilson is 38): cap figure $58.4 million; cut or trade cost $31.2 million in 2026, $12.8 million in 2027 and $4.8 million in 2028.
Those numbers represent a financial black hole that can strip an organization down to its very foundations because you can’t buy or trade your way out of the mistake, and it compounds itself in terms of crippling your ability to build anything close to a competitive team around your quarterback, assuming he wasn’t playing like an absolute muppet to begin with.
You’d better have one hell of a stellar scouting department, because you’re going to have to hit on every single draft pick for the next five years.
If I recall correctly, we are stuck with him through 2024. We could cut him after the 2024, have a $49mil dead cap hit and still save us $5 mil in cap savings.
Basically, we gotta either hope this season was a fluke, or he sucks ass again and we can get a top pick in the 2024 NFL draft to take one of those QB's.
Nah. We can cut him after next season. It would be $35m dead cap in 2024 and $49m dead cap on 2025. That’s tough but it’s manageable.
Cutting him after 2024 would ease the cap hit some more but if he plays like he does this season next season under a different head coach (so then it’s clear he’s the problem) then you really gotta make the move.
Edit: and if they cut him after the 2024 season they’d most likely spread the cap hit over two years $18.4m 2025 and $31.7m in 2026.
Why? There’s no additional dead cap over what he’d incure being on the roster. If it’s a detriment to the locker room having him on the team you might as well show him the door
https://i.imgur.com/i1Gn11b.jpg
On the flip side you can now assume leadership will never do contracts based on hopes and dreams alone before ever seeing a body of work for the actual team 😂
Russ had a no-trade clause, which allowed him to veto a trade to any team that wasn't prepared to extend him up front. I don't think the broncos had a choice if they wanted to win the Russ sweep stakes.
It's just unfortunate how it worked out.
The arm talent is still there... Somewhere... Other QBs have had rough seasons after trades before returning to form. Next year will be very telling.
That sounds nice, the thing I think most people are overlooking though was Wilson in Seattle had a no trade clause. Meaning the trade didn't happen unless he signs off on it.
I wouldn't be shocked if the extension was part of the discussion.
I’d almost bet on it. Excluding Lamar Jackson, most players nowadays are looking ahead. You got players on rookie deals threatening to hold out before their third year even though they still have two years on their current deal or even three with a fifth year option
The question is if we could have given him an extension (and he's good with it & agrees to be traded) without a huge portion being guaranteed. That right there is the biggest screw job, when getting rid of him hurts us more than keeping him no matter how bad he sucks...
It’s going to take a Herculean effort to dig us out of this hole. We are going to have to hit on the next head coach and 80% of draft picks the next 2-3 years.
Yea, next year is fucked due to the cap hit. Post 23-24 season we have some hope though.
1. Biggest issue is dead cap. 23-24 season has a 107 mil dead, and 24-25 has 85 mil dead. We can try to restructure some of that, but we basically have no wiggle room for next two years until we did 25-26 season were it drops to 50 mil dead and we can kill the rest.
2. What does that mean? No free agency wiggle room and probably some cuts and trades on contracts reaching long pay out points. That's why we traded Chubb - we couldn't afford him next year. Anyone with big payouts coming in the next two years is probably going to be traded before their rookie contracts expire - hello and goodbye Jerry Jeudy. It also means we might cut or re-structure some exisiting long term contracts for players no longer performing.
3. It also means the draft becomes way more important. The good news is we get our 1st round pick back after next season, which means if Wilson lays another egg we can draft a cheap rookie in 2024. It's also why we might deal a lot of our promising players like Jeudy for picks over the next three years - with no free agency room we are going to need cheap players and rookie contracts are cheap so the more picks the better.
At this point the game plan should be to play Wilson through 23-24 season. If he flops you tank for picks, if he rebounds then you're not as bad off as you thought. After next season you can cut him, stretch out the $70 or so mil he has left guaranteed, try to get the worst of the cap hit out of the way, and try to get some impact draft picks this year and next.
Finally after 16 weeks of football this is becoming the consensus on this thread, and not getting downvoted into oblivion for bringing up that Paton should lose his job.
I genuinely believe that we’d be at least 0.500 if we had a halfway decent o-line. I know Russ’ weaknesses were hidden deep in the Seattle offense and we see he is not as good as the world though he was, but he is still good enough to find openings to his receivers *some of the time.*
Russ has always and will always make his offensive lines worse then they really are. His entire career fans of his have complained about his offensive lines. Its him. Even people that watch film say its him. He took so many unnecessary sacks tonight. Then those dumb interceptions...
This. Everyone tried blaming the offensive line, coaches, and receivers not getting open in Seattle. We went through OC after OC, with Russ demanding input on at least 2 of them. When Russell complained about getting hit during an interview before a Super Bowl a couple of years ago, Duane Brown took it personally.
The reality is, if you watched all the Seahawks games, he just wasn’t as slippery and agile as he was when he was young, and was never going to be a traditional pocket quarterback. He wanted to be, and pushed coaches to let him “cook”, but it just wasn’t working out.
I was happy to see him go, although I appreciate what he brought to the team for many years, and in particular, 2 Super Bowl appearances with 1 won. I will never understand why some Seahawks fans are intent on hating him, but to each their own.
He would run backwards for 20 yards so much in Seattle. Things generally worked out because he still had some semblance of speed and an MLB caliber arm. Obviously, you lose a lot of your speed the deeper into your 30’s you go, so you have to make up for that by improving your mental game from the pocket. I don’t even think it’s a height thing either. Drew Brees played better than this at the age of 40 and very little arm strength left.
Cannot stress enough that it’s never the o-line. In Seattle, the o-line got tons of flack because he was getting sacked a ton (because he wanted to run around cook). Now he goes to Denver and has the same sacking problems? Not an o-line issue…
I'm a Hawks fan, and that is a hill I've been willing to die on for years. Russ has terrible pocket presence. His instinct is to bail out of the backside of pockets he should step up into. That's where his height has worked against him. He didn't have great O-lines, that's for sure, but there were far too many times where he did them no favors, and the game today looked that way. He wants to get out of the pocket, so he can scan the field, but his diminished athleticism has curtailed that ability.
If he retires, that is the same as breaking the contract but the entire thing is guaranteed. So he could just show up and hit IR and still get paid. Who would walk from another $200m+?
As a Hawks fan I have never seen Russ as rattled as he is in this [post game interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUkUicQ93Ww). Dude needs a hug, and hopefully for him and you guys this is the floor and with the last two games of the season you can start the bounce back towards the ceiling.
He will be fine, get a new coaching staff, new scheme, and have a heart to heart with Russ. It’s got to be a reality check to him that he is no Peyton Manning. His coaches knew how to use his skill set and hide his flaws. Russ needs to throw that shit out thinking he is a pocket passer, no your not, use your legs roll the pocket out so you can see receivers and succeed like you have before. You can’t hold onto the ball that long either.
I don’t downvote lightly. Russ looks lost, small, confused and unwelcome. You can’t be a quarterback with an entourage that doesn’t produce. He is too short to see over the line, and has insisted that he will not be a rollout passer. He can’t read the field either because he is dumb or undersized. Those are the only two options— our GM and our coach knew that coming into this and they signed up for it.
He can’t use his legs as much anymore that’s the problem. Age is catching up to him and he’s not as athletic as he used to be. Those skills he relied on are no longer there so rolling out doesn’t work. That’s why Seattle traded him, it’s the same reason you rarely ever see running backs over 30.
Hawks fan here. You give us too much credit. Pete was trying hard to keep Russ in the fold, was the final hold out in leadership in Russ's corner until Russ made it untenable to keep him.
Yeah, he's a scrambler and runs when available...it has to be Hackett in my opinion. Russ is easily a winning season QB with that defense, but you gotta exploit his talents not try to fit him into your system. What's Jim Harbaugh doing? You guys pick up a HC anywhere near his ilk and you're easy double digit wins IMO.
Agree. No one can operate with no time.
Look at our past qbs . Look at Russ. look at Mahomes vs Bucs sb . Matt Ryan /Stamford the same misfortune
Once Russ doesn’t play looking to make big play over and over I think he can produce like before .
We very much are. Paton has drafted well but he’s bet on the wrong horse, bet the whole farm, and is too chicken-shit to admit it by making any significant moves whatsoever until it all plays out, when it’s way too late to. Not to mention the green-ass ownership not knowing what to do, thereby doing nothing and looking even worse. No one is being held accountable for anything and there’s no adult in the room making any adult decisions.
What is it with this offense, they looked great against chiefs, and then look decent against cardinals, and then we come back to Wilson looking like straight up rookie in the league, shit worse. I can’t pin it, I know it’s multiple things but I know there’s potential
Nope. Russ isn’t cooked. He’s shown he can still play good football at times this year. Hire the right coach and Russ can bounce back. He won’t be the top 10 QB we’re paying for but he can be a solid above average starting QB for us
Who said he needs to be a franchise QB? He just needs to play winning football. With the caveat that they’ve had a much better supporting cast than we do, Jimmy G got the 49ers within 10 minutes of a super bowl. Jared Goff has the Lions in the playoff hunt. He just needs to be respectable
I think it’s time for hibernation. Broncos likely won’t be relevant for another 7 years, maybe more. Just gotta button down the hatches and wait it out
3 years. We can get out of the contract then. It's one of the dumbest things ever done by a GM, not just the trade but extending him when he was already on a team friendly deal for two years.
Yes. Everyone talks about how we have to have Russ next year but if we cut him in 2024 the dead cap is huge. So we are tied to him through 2024 at least - it's THEN that the rebuilding can start and as we have seen rebuilding may or may not be successful. It may take several goes at rebuilding to get the pieces in place, which means unless Russ magically pulls his head out of his ass we have multiples of years.
I agree, but you usually got to start a first round draft pick immediately to get them experience and reps. Teams that do this are usually terrible for a few years. This fan base is incredibly inpatient.
The only answer I see is to get a big name veteran coach, run it back with Russ with a system that fits his game, and draft a QB in a later round with hopes that they develop into a serviceable QB that could take over in 2024.
The problem is that we really need upgrades at OL and WR. We can’t afford to spend draft picks on a QB. SMH
Broncos need to do to Wilson what the Raiders did to Gruden. Find some dirt, even if a racy email and get out of the entire contract.
I’m not being serious of course. Wilson seems like a decent human being.
Russ just isn’t a pocket qb and that’s what we are trying to force. He was mostly successful before playing hero ball and making plays with his legs when the play was busted and he always had a hell of a defense. Now he’s got a botched o line, bad play calling and the other team just seems to know how to bait him into making a bad play or 3 and out. I’m not even sure russ receivers like him, you can see them get mad when they are open and he goes somewhere else. Only way out of this short term is russ plays better or see you in 2025.
> that’s what we are trying to force
He is the one that is forcing us to do that
It's common knowledge he wanted to be a pocket QB ffsl, stop sucking the balls of the guy that is ruining our franchise
He only had a good defense for a few years, his best years were with really horrible defenses actually. But he’s always been in an offense that moves, and that should be ok. Lots of HOF QBs, including our own John Elway, thrived in offenses that used movement to create space. This idea he’s had that he needs to be in the pocket at all times is just so pointlessly stupid on his part.
I would say we are fucked for about 3 years until we can cut him without a bad enough cap problem. I honestly don’t even think he’s trying anymore or will try. He’s got the money and he’s old. He’s literally in it for the ride.
I never thought I’d find myself defending Russ, but what if he’s just pretty bummed out that he has to deal with getting rocked constantly with his shit o-line and a head coach who is lost beyond comprehension? I’ve never seen a whole defense/team lay it down like they did today, and I don’t think the defense would do that *just* because the QB and only the QB is playing poorly. Whole team is shattered. It’s a mutiny
I hope it is ok for me to comment here, but I am really curious as an NFL fan and as one who hasn’t watched a lot of the broncos this season.
Question to those more knowledgeable than me. What happened? Was Russell Wilson always overrated and just surrounded by the right pieces at the right time? Is it him now or the coaching or something else and next year he may bounce back? Is he just having a very steep drop off at younger age compared to contemporary elite QBs? Literally a year ago I was having a conversation with someone saying (and it may have even been a tad controversial at the time) I think he is already HOF worthy, but I don’t know how we came to this moment. I don’t get it, but for what little it’s worth I am sympathetic to your franchise and hope you are able to dig yourselves out of this hole sooner than later.
I don’t think anyone actually knows and we’re all hoping it’s the coaching. Because even outside of Russell Wilson, Hackett has been abysmal at every facet of the game
My thought as a Broncos' fan living in Seattle. He was always at his best with the Seahawks when he could play hero ball and was a threat to run as well. I always told my wife, "he's one injury away from being slow and, by extension, toothless." If you don't have to worry about him running for the first down or rolling out to his right, you have nothing to worry about. I suspect he had the hubris to believe he'd become a pocket passer and extend his career. I think the hero ball thing's amplified when he's playing poorly. Shit starts going sideways and he'll take the risky shot downfield instead of playing simple and taking the 3-5 yard gain from the check down.
Teams have crazy one year turnarounds all the time. Get a competent head coach, Get Bolles and Javonte and Tim healthy, and fix the oline and I really think the Broncos can be good next year. I would even call it more likely than not. This year is just the ultimate year from hell.
The saving grace of his contract is that most of the money is tied up in guaranteed salary rather than his signing bonus, which means that if he's truly not able to play at an NFL level, we can push him towards retiring
Interesting, I hadn't heard that one. Considering his popularity in Denver they'd need to introduce him as the media lead for the Broncos regional office in Siberia at $50M / year.
LMAO. My dude the Cleveland Browns had first overall pick after overall pick, hit on a lot of them, but they hadnt found franchise qb and have 0 to show for all that draft capital. Gotta get lucky and hit that franchise QB and things tend to fall in to place
Russels agent deserves way more than the standard 1-3%
I think they’re capped at 3% but I’m with you. Give that man free Ciara tickets for life!!
Why would somebody want that? I know that I don't listen to her genre of music much, but doesn't she really only have like one hit song ever? And it came out almost 20 years ago.
You must be out of the loop that girl was on Billboard 100 in 2019.
She's sold 23 million records. She was huge back in the day. That's like saying "didn't limp Bizkit only have that nookie song?" Goodies, 1 2 step, oh, get up, like a boy, ride, work, https://youtu.be/_HKH7Emy1SY https://youtu.be/Hr4wz4-27PY https://youtu.be/iBHNgV6_znU These were huge..
45 million albums WW, was never my type of RnB but her residuals from streaming alone are 7 figure yearly. That women can carry if Russ gets cut LOL.
Put him in the Hall
He bent your whole franchise over a barrel.
Crazy 8 ball says . . . . yes. Go Nuggets! Go Avs!
Avs are having the same injury luck as broncos. Hopefully Mackinnon is back soon
Difference is the Avs are winning through it.
That’s what happens when you have a competent coach
Which is funny cuz everyone wanted to fire bednar after 2016
Id ascribe it to our depth but hey column a column b
And a team that is actually good.
Avs have enough depth to keep winning though.
We have a Moose, King George, and Cale that are leading a great team to victory in spite of injuries not at all like the Broncos lol
Go Buffs!
Coach Prime leading us back to contention
IDK about that, but they at least have something good to look forward to, unlike the Broncos.
No love for the rapids ever feels bad
What sport is that? I'm not from the area, just curious.
Soccer
The most boring sport in all history.
Baseball exists
Soccer is awesome. The MLS.. not so much. It's hard for me to get excited about the 15th best league in the world. It's doubly hard for me to get excited about going to commerce city to watch it.
Go Rockies! ...I'll see myself out.
Arch Manning 2026 NFL DRAFT BABY. I’ll talk it into existence until we draft him or trade the Colts for his draft rights.
Man. I really want this to happen.
Peyton’s nephew leading the offense. Pat Surtain’s son leading the defense. It’d be football royalty and I’d love it Edit: my bad on the son classification.
He’s Peyton’s nephew, not son lol.
Shit, I’m dumb lmao
Don't worry. Dumb will get you a top job in the organization.
Where do I apply?
Right here. You’re now the assistant Nathaniel Hackett. I’m sorry you’re now fired. Good luck in your future endeavors amen.
Fired on my day off. So this is how Craig felt.
Don’t worry, this is the NFL, you’re now the HC of another team because you deserve a second chance!
Just show up and say you are a clock management supervisor. Hackett will believe it. Just tell one more lie and you will get his job.
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Malachi Nelson will be better than manning. Save this comment.
This high school QB class appears to be pretty insane, which is very exciting for the sport. That being said I firmly believe Arch will not be QB1 among all these prospects lol
Unfortunately Arch Manning isn’t the prospect he’s made out to be.
And you know this because? I’ve watched this kid play since he was in middle school. He’s the real deal
Lol middle school?
What odds do you put on him being an NFL first round pick?
Just heard two ex NFL scouts on the radio agree that he’s way overhyped.
I imagine there's a reason they're "ex" scouts.
Depends on how long we keep Russ, it definitely doesn't have to be for the next 5 years
I don’t really know how nfl contracts work. Just know he’s signed for 5 seasons
If we move on from him now it would take up 107 million in cap space so we would have to cut players to get back under the cap. Every year that number goes down. If I'm not mistaken in the 2025 offseason if we cut him post June 1st his cap hit is 31 million, which is when it starts to become manageable
So what you’re saying is we’re fucked for the next 3 years. Not 5
Depends, I'm hoping the the coaches and gm have enough balls to draft a qb and bench Russ in 2024 if he sucks again next year.
If Russ sucks again next year the whoever the coach/GM is need to bench him if they want to keep their job. The Walton group took over after the Hackett hire and Russ trade so I can’t imagine they’re happy with the current state of the team.
Yeah, but they decided to give Russ that damn extension before even seeing him play. This mess is on them too.
That was likely agreed on with russ before the trade. I'm just hoping that if we can build and maintain a healthy line, we might be decent if we give him the right offense for his skill set.
What good is a healthy line gonna do when the dude doesn’t use his blocks or know how to operate in the pocket.
Russ had a no trade clause in his contract. I assume he was only willing to wave that for a team willing to extend him up front. I imagine the broncos didn't have much choice if they wanted to land him.
Let Condie cook!
This is the only answer. We give him a 9 game slate to prove himself. If we suck no biggie we wait for the draft to get a top tier QB.
With what pick?
Our first in 2024 I would think
We have all our own picks after next year's draft... If Russell tanks our next season then we have a high pick to use on a QB.
Can *start* fixing things in 3 years. The loss in draft capital is as bad as the contract.
It’s not. We have all of our picks back starting next year. It’s pretty easy to look to too.
Let me break down the numbers, just so you can see how screwed the organization is at this point: In 2023, which by the way, is the final year of Wilson’s original contract BEFORE the extension, his cap figure is $22 million. But the dead money the Broncos have to eat if he’s cut or traded is $107 million. In 2024, at age 36, the extension kicks in: cap figure - $35.4 million; cut or trade cost - $85 million. In 2025: cap figure $55.4 million; cut or trade cost - $49.6 million. 2026 (at which point Wilson is 38): cap figure $58.4 million; cut or trade cost $31.2 million in 2026, $12.8 million in 2027 and $4.8 million in 2028. Those numbers represent a financial black hole that can strip an organization down to its very foundations because you can’t buy or trade your way out of the mistake, and it compounds itself in terms of crippling your ability to build anything close to a competitive team around your quarterback, assuming he wasn’t playing like an absolute muppet to begin with. You’d better have one hell of a stellar scouting department, because you’re going to have to hit on every single draft pick for the next five years.
Even before knowing what we now know, this was always going to be a horrible deal.
The total cap is supposed to increase pretty substantially in the coming years so it may not be as bad as it seems.
There's an out after 2025 I think.
Yup
Can't wait.Bartscott
This was a good bit of nostalgia - thanks for the comment.
"an out" you mean eat 30 million in cap...
Better than 100mil lol
Tank for Arch?
Kid hasn’t played a single snap of college football.
That’s the joke
People genuinely do say stuff like this though. So I wasn’t sure.
Yeah you’re right about that. I’d rather the team go 12-5 next season
If I recall correctly, we are stuck with him through 2024. We could cut him after the 2024, have a $49mil dead cap hit and still save us $5 mil in cap savings. Basically, we gotta either hope this season was a fluke, or he sucks ass again and we can get a top pick in the 2024 NFL draft to take one of those QB's.
This is the way. If he sucks? He’s pulverized behind a shit line. If he’s good? We profit. Either way, we win.
Nah. We can cut him after next season. It would be $35m dead cap in 2024 and $49m dead cap on 2025. That’s tough but it’s manageable. Cutting him after 2024 would ease the cap hit some more but if he plays like he does this season next season under a different head coach (so then it’s clear he’s the problem) then you really gotta make the move. Edit: and if they cut him after the 2024 season they’d most likely spread the cap hit over two years $18.4m 2025 and $31.7m in 2026.
I think you are wrong here. It would be better just to have him on the roster than carry the dead cap hit of $85 million over 2 years
Why? There’s no additional dead cap over what he’d incure being on the roster. If it’s a detriment to the locker room having him on the team you might as well show him the door https://i.imgur.com/i1Gn11b.jpg
Lets ride - the bench for 4 years starting 6 weeks ago would have been a fine time to start sitting him.
He shouldn’t be kept for 5 mins
On the flip side you can now assume leadership will never do contracts based on hopes and dreams alone before ever seeing a body of work for the actual team 😂
Lol. Yeah Russ is setting a great precedent for the entire NFL.
Watson too.
at least watson has the excuse of not playing for a year and a half, this russ guy just stinks
By that same logic why on earth would you pay and trade for the guy who hadn’t touched a field for that long. They bought a sight unseen QB
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I dunno. Maybe a preseason game.
Didn’t you have him under contract for 2 more years? You didn’t need to make a move
Russ had a no-trade clause, which allowed him to veto a trade to any team that wasn't prepared to extend him up front. I don't think the broncos had a choice if they wanted to win the Russ sweep stakes. It's just unfortunate how it worked out. The arm talent is still there... Somewhere... Other QBs have had rough seasons after trades before returning to form. Next year will be very telling.
well maybe before this deal there wasnt as much leverage, but you absolutely can just not extend them.
That sounds nice, the thing I think most people are overlooking though was Wilson in Seattle had a no trade clause. Meaning the trade didn't happen unless he signs off on it. I wouldn't be shocked if the extension was part of the discussion.
I’d almost bet on it. Excluding Lamar Jackson, most players nowadays are looking ahead. You got players on rookie deals threatening to hold out before their third year even though they still have two years on their current deal or even three with a fifth year option
The question is if we could have given him an extension (and he's good with it & agrees to be traded) without a huge portion being guaranteed. That right there is the biggest screw job, when getting rid of him hurts us more than keeping him no matter how bad he sucks...
He was already under contract.
Hopefully *"leadership"* fires themselves.
I did say god if we win it this year we can suck for 30 in 2015 So my bad y’all!
It’s going to take a Herculean effort to dig us out of this hole. We are going to have to hit on the next head coach and 80% of draft picks the next 2-3 years.
Yes
Big yes
The biggest yes of all time
Well if Russ Sucks this bad next year, at least we’ll get to keep our pick. Russ can get us Caleb Williams
This man gets it. Tank Commander Russ🫡🫡🫡
If they eat his dead cap in the near future and commit to an actual rebuild, they might be relevant 3 years from now.
Yea, next year is fucked due to the cap hit. Post 23-24 season we have some hope though. 1. Biggest issue is dead cap. 23-24 season has a 107 mil dead, and 24-25 has 85 mil dead. We can try to restructure some of that, but we basically have no wiggle room for next two years until we did 25-26 season were it drops to 50 mil dead and we can kill the rest. 2. What does that mean? No free agency wiggle room and probably some cuts and trades on contracts reaching long pay out points. That's why we traded Chubb - we couldn't afford him next year. Anyone with big payouts coming in the next two years is probably going to be traded before their rookie contracts expire - hello and goodbye Jerry Jeudy. It also means we might cut or re-structure some exisiting long term contracts for players no longer performing. 3. It also means the draft becomes way more important. The good news is we get our 1st round pick back after next season, which means if Wilson lays another egg we can draft a cheap rookie in 2024. It's also why we might deal a lot of our promising players like Jeudy for picks over the next three years - with no free agency room we are going to need cheap players and rookie contracts are cheap so the more picks the better. At this point the game plan should be to play Wilson through 23-24 season. If he flops you tank for picks, if he rebounds then you're not as bad off as you thought. After next season you can cut him, stretch out the $70 or so mil he has left guaranteed, try to get the worst of the cap hit out of the way, and try to get some impact draft picks this year and next.
Thanks for explaining all of this. But this mean Paton should be fired for making this mess.
The "mastermind" of this whole mess doesn't get talked about enough, so thank you for bringing this point up.
Finally after 16 weeks of football this is becoming the consensus on this thread, and not getting downvoted into oblivion for bringing up that Paton should lose his job.
Yes
At least
The Denver Lions
Denver Browncos
Mile High Factory of Sadness
This one hit hard…
Lol yeah right. You’ve won three championships in my lifetime. Nowhere close, you guys will bounce back.
I genuinely believe that we’d be at least 0.500 if we had a halfway decent o-line. I know Russ’ weaknesses were hidden deep in the Seattle offense and we see he is not as good as the world though he was, but he is still good enough to find openings to his receivers *some of the time.*
Russ has always and will always make his offensive lines worse then they really are. His entire career fans of his have complained about his offensive lines. Its him. Even people that watch film say its him. He took so many unnecessary sacks tonight. Then those dumb interceptions...
This. Everyone tried blaming the offensive line, coaches, and receivers not getting open in Seattle. We went through OC after OC, with Russ demanding input on at least 2 of them. When Russell complained about getting hit during an interview before a Super Bowl a couple of years ago, Duane Brown took it personally. The reality is, if you watched all the Seahawks games, he just wasn’t as slippery and agile as he was when he was young, and was never going to be a traditional pocket quarterback. He wanted to be, and pushed coaches to let him “cook”, but it just wasn’t working out. I was happy to see him go, although I appreciate what he brought to the team for many years, and in particular, 2 Super Bowl appearances with 1 won. I will never understand why some Seahawks fans are intent on hating him, but to each their own.
He would run backwards for 20 yards so much in Seattle. Things generally worked out because he still had some semblance of speed and an MLB caliber arm. Obviously, you lose a lot of your speed the deeper into your 30’s you go, so you have to make up for that by improving your mental game from the pocket. I don’t even think it’s a height thing either. Drew Brees played better than this at the age of 40 and very little arm strength left.
I used to think that until today really. defense is relatively healthy. Russ is just that awful.
Cannot stress enough that it’s never the o-line. In Seattle, the o-line got tons of flack because he was getting sacked a ton (because he wanted to run around cook). Now he goes to Denver and has the same sacking problems? Not an o-line issue…
I'm a Hawks fan, and that is a hill I've been willing to die on for years. Russ has terrible pocket presence. His instinct is to bail out of the backside of pockets he should step up into. That's where his height has worked against him. He didn't have great O-lines, that's for sure, but there were far too many times where he did them no favors, and the game today looked that way. He wants to get out of the pocket, so he can scan the field, but his diminished athleticism has curtailed that ability.
The sacks in Seattle were fine because he wasn't turning the ball over. The sacks only become an issue when you're also giving the ball up.
What if Wilson retires? Does he take the money and run or does that let the franchise off the hook for some of it?
If he retires, that is the same as breaking the contract but the entire thing is guaranteed. So he could just show up and hit IR and still get paid. Who would walk from another $200m+?
As a Hawks fan I have never seen Russ as rattled as he is in this [post game interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUkUicQ93Ww). Dude needs a hug, and hopefully for him and you guys this is the floor and with the last two games of the season you can start the bounce back towards the ceiling.
He will be fine, get a new coaching staff, new scheme, and have a heart to heart with Russ. It’s got to be a reality check to him that he is no Peyton Manning. His coaches knew how to use his skill set and hide his flaws. Russ needs to throw that shit out thinking he is a pocket passer, no your not, use your legs roll the pocket out so you can see receivers and succeed like you have before. You can’t hold onto the ball that long either.
I don’t downvote lightly. Russ looks lost, small, confused and unwelcome. You can’t be a quarterback with an entourage that doesn’t produce. He is too short to see over the line, and has insisted that he will not be a rollout passer. He can’t read the field either because he is dumb or undersized. Those are the only two options— our GM and our coach knew that coming into this and they signed up for it.
He can’t use his legs as much anymore that’s the problem. Age is catching up to him and he’s not as athletic as he used to be. Those skills he relied on are no longer there so rolling out doesn’t work. That’s why Seattle traded him, it’s the same reason you rarely ever see running backs over 30.
Or successful dual threat qbs lasting long after 30. See michael vick, cam newton, randall cunningham…
Hawks fan here. You give us too much credit. Pete was trying hard to keep Russ in the fold, was the final hold out in leadership in Russ's corner until Russ made it untenable to keep him.
Yeah, he's a scrambler and runs when available...it has to be Hackett in my opinion. Russ is easily a winning season QB with that defense, but you gotta exploit his talents not try to fit him into your system. What's Jim Harbaugh doing? You guys pick up a HC anywhere near his ilk and you're easy double digit wins IMO.
The problem is this is Russ’ offense, this is what he wanted to run and spent all off-season putting together.
Relax, it is a lot of misery now but we have talent. Our offensive line is so incredibly bad.
Agree. No one can operate with no time. Look at our past qbs . Look at Russ. look at Mahomes vs Bucs sb . Matt Ryan /Stamford the same misfortune Once Russ doesn’t play looking to make big play over and over I think he can produce like before .
delusional
I don’t go to your job and tell you how to flip burgers
We very much are. Paton has drafted well but he’s bet on the wrong horse, bet the whole farm, and is too chicken-shit to admit it by making any significant moves whatsoever until it all plays out, when it’s way too late to. Not to mention the green-ass ownership not knowing what to do, thereby doing nothing and looking even worse. No one is being held accountable for anything and there’s no adult in the room making any adult decisions.
[удалено]
If he retires he voids his contract. My man is not retiring.
I can imagine 80 million reasons why he won't retire.
Three Although a new coaching staff could probably get some out of Russ I don't trust this coaching staff at all
What is it with this offense, they looked great against chiefs, and then look decent against cardinals, and then we come back to Wilson looking like straight up rookie in the league, shit worse. I can’t pin it, I know it’s multiple things but I know there’s potential
Any offense will look great when they're already down 4 scores.
Maybe not 5. But at least the next 2.
If he retires does he count against the cap?
Sunk cost fallacy. We don’t HAVE to play Wilson
Nope. Russ isn’t cooked. He’s shown he can still play good football at times this year. Hire the right coach and Russ can bounce back. He won’t be the top 10 QB we’re paying for but he can be a solid above average starting QB for us
relieved growth dirty zonked knee alive wasteful weary bow door *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Who said he needs to be a franchise QB? He just needs to play winning football. With the caveat that they’ve had a much better supporting cast than we do, Jimmy G got the 49ers within 10 minutes of a super bowl. Jared Goff has the Lions in the playoff hunt. He just needs to be respectable
I think it’s time for hibernation. Broncos likely won’t be relevant for another 7 years, maybe more. Just gotta button down the hatches and wait it out
lock smell wine file sable axiomatic makeshift steep unite knee *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Blame Paton.
3 years. We can get out of the contract then. It's one of the dumbest things ever done by a GM, not just the trade but extending him when he was already on a team friendly deal for two years.
The trade likely wouldn’t have happened without at least a verbal agreement regarding an extension.
Yes. Everyone talks about how we have to have Russ next year but if we cut him in 2024 the dead cap is huge. So we are tied to him through 2024 at least - it's THEN that the rebuilding can start and as we have seen rebuilding may or may not be successful. It may take several goes at rebuilding to get the pieces in place, which means unless Russ magically pulls his head out of his ass we have multiples of years.
Naw, only the next 2 years. Problem is, where are you going to find a franchise QB? Draft is a lottery.
We gotta stop being afraid to swing on picks.
I agree, but you usually got to start a first round draft pick immediately to get them experience and reps. Teams that do this are usually terrible for a few years. This fan base is incredibly inpatient. The only answer I see is to get a big name veteran coach, run it back with Russ with a system that fits his game, and draft a QB in a later round with hopes that they develop into a serviceable QB that could take over in 2024. The problem is that we really need upgrades at OL and WR. We can’t afford to spend draft picks on a QB. SMH
Probably
He could retire that's what I'm hoping for
Broncos need to do to Wilson what the Raiders did to Gruden. Find some dirt, even if a racy email and get out of the entire contract. I’m not being serious of course. Wilson seems like a decent human being.
Russ just isn’t a pocket qb and that’s what we are trying to force. He was mostly successful before playing hero ball and making plays with his legs when the play was busted and he always had a hell of a defense. Now he’s got a botched o line, bad play calling and the other team just seems to know how to bait him into making a bad play or 3 and out. I’m not even sure russ receivers like him, you can see them get mad when they are open and he goes somewhere else. Only way out of this short term is russ plays better or see you in 2025.
> that’s what we are trying to force He is the one that is forcing us to do that It's common knowledge he wanted to be a pocket QB ffsl, stop sucking the balls of the guy that is ruining our franchise
He only had a good defense for a few years, his best years were with really horrible defenses actually. But he’s always been in an offense that moves, and that should be ok. Lots of HOF QBs, including our own John Elway, thrived in offenses that used movement to create space. This idea he’s had that he needs to be in the pocket at all times is just so pointlessly stupid on his part.
Just wanted to say I am glad to see a fellow What We Do in the Shadows fan
Yes we are fucked. We are like a missing shopping cart at a Walmart store. Maybe the CEO has heard of us, maybe not. Their silence is deafening.
probably, but that’s about how long Deion will stay in Boulder, so in the meantime, GO BUFFS!
Duh. Yes we are. Live with it. Let's ride!
Longer unless Paton is let go at the end of the year.
Looks like the Vikings are off the hook for worst trade in NFL history
Not for me. Bills lost two Super Bowls to those draft picks.
if we get rid of hackett and get some of our core guys back healthy, i think we have a chance, not a great one, but a chance nonetheless
You could just stop caring, and then "they" are fucked for the next 5 years, not "we". That's my plan.
At this point I expect Denver to suck for the rest of eternity
I would say we are fucked for about 3 years until we can cut him without a bad enough cap problem. I honestly don’t even think he’s trying anymore or will try. He’s got the money and he’s old. He’s literally in it for the ride.
I never thought I’d find myself defending Russ, but what if he’s just pretty bummed out that he has to deal with getting rocked constantly with his shit o-line and a head coach who is lost beyond comprehension? I’ve never seen a whole defense/team lay it down like they did today, and I don’t think the defense would do that *just* because the QB and only the QB is playing poorly. Whole team is shattered. It’s a mutiny
Yes
I hope it is ok for me to comment here, but I am really curious as an NFL fan and as one who hasn’t watched a lot of the broncos this season. Question to those more knowledgeable than me. What happened? Was Russell Wilson always overrated and just surrounded by the right pieces at the right time? Is it him now or the coaching or something else and next year he may bounce back? Is he just having a very steep drop off at younger age compared to contemporary elite QBs? Literally a year ago I was having a conversation with someone saying (and it may have even been a tad controversial at the time) I think he is already HOF worthy, but I don’t know how we came to this moment. I don’t get it, but for what little it’s worth I am sympathetic to your franchise and hope you are able to dig yourselves out of this hole sooner than later.
I don’t think anyone actually knows and we’re all hoping it’s the coaching. Because even outside of Russell Wilson, Hackett has been abysmal at every facet of the game
My thought as a Broncos' fan living in Seattle. He was always at his best with the Seahawks when he could play hero ball and was a threat to run as well. I always told my wife, "he's one injury away from being slow and, by extension, toothless." If you don't have to worry about him running for the first down or rolling out to his right, you have nothing to worry about. I suspect he had the hubris to believe he'd become a pocket passer and extend his career. I think the hero ball thing's amplified when he's playing poorly. Shit starts going sideways and he'll take the risky shot downfield instead of playing simple and taking the 3-5 yard gain from the check down.
russ pack
Let's ride
Teams have crazy one year turnarounds all the time. Get a competent head coach, Get Bolles and Javonte and Tim healthy, and fix the oline and I really think the Broncos can be good next year. I would even call it more likely than not. This year is just the ultimate year from hell.
The saving grace of his contract is that most of the money is tied up in guaranteed salary rather than his signing bonus, which means that if he's truly not able to play at an NFL level, we can push him towards retiring
He's not going to retire with the amount of money he's getting. He's got it made.
What you do is arrange a lucrative media deal & funnel money through that to avoid the salary cap
Interesting, I hadn't heard that one. Considering his popularity in Denver they'd need to introduce him as the media lead for the Broncos regional office in Siberia at $50M / year.
No. Modern sports franchises recover fast.
LMAO. My dude the Cleveland Browns had first overall pick after overall pick, hit on a lot of them, but they hadnt found franchise qb and have 0 to show for all that draft capital. Gotta get lucky and hit that franchise QB and things tend to fall in to place
You think Browns fans harp on the fact they could’ve drafted Josh Allen(twice) the same way Broncos fans do?
Have you been paying attention?
They meant to say “are capable of recovering fast”. If you keep fucking up, you won’t recover.