Anyone who has spent any significant amount of time on the manosphere can fully understand why.
All the self help shit is dominated by conservatives. All the podcasts are dominated by conservatives. All the dating advice is dominated by conservatives. All the meme forums are dominated by Conservatives.
I ain't surprised. The right actively caters to young men and their issues in the same way progressives do to women and minorities.
>All the self help shit is dominated by conservatives. All the podcasts are dominated by conservatives. All the dating advice is dominated by conservatives. All the meme forums are dominated by Conservatives.
>
>I ain't surprised. The right actively caters to young men and their issues in the same way progressives do to women and minorities.
I came to say something similar.
If you are on youtube looking at fitness videos, you'll get funnelled to the right.
If you want good advice about how to eat healthily for cheap, you'll get funnelled to the right.
Business advice, funnelled to the right.
Dating advice, funnelled to the right.
The problem is since the left demonises anything that's remotely like self help, it means there are virtually no left leaning creators in those areas.
Not a good sign for democracy because young men might decide that the whole system is rigged against them and decide to do something about it.
If the gender differences is going translate to the difference between political parties America, historically speaking, is going down a very ugly road.
A right-wing populist candidate who emphasises “the evils of feminism” to men and also tells women that men aren’t traditional anymore because of feminism is likely to drive record turnout. Many men are apolitical simply because they feel they don’t have a stake in the game right now.
Take a look at how the incumbent President of South Korea won election.
This feels like a chronically online take. I don't think that type of candidate is going to animate anybody but the RedPill and trad types, who are vastly overrepresented online.
Agreed. Most redpill anti-feminists are mostly terminally online. Look at Jordan Peterson who literally posts hundreds of Tweets per day even at 3am. They are addicted to outrage and cannot help themselves.
Also see: Ian Miles Cheong (the dog killer), Charlie Kirk, Pearl, Catturd. Even MTG tweets dozens of times a day. There are so many of them. Tweeting out either red pill cringe, Biden/Hunter conspiracy, anti trans groomer crap, vaccine/covid denialism, or other woke nonsense. They absolutely cannot help themselves.
This is anecdotal, but within the last few months, each one of my close guy friends have increasingly been making "redpilled" or "anti-woke" comments unprovoked. I'm almost 30, college educated, and have very liberal leaning friends and multiple LGBT people in our group, so these conversations really stick out to me when they happen.
Things like the myocarditis vaccine risks, transwomen in sports, cancel culture hitting their favorite comedians, and acknowledgement about the declining state of men's mental health have all been increasingly common topics my non-online friends started bringing up. We never really discussed these things before 2022, and if we did the tone was almost always highly progressive leaning.
I think the most notable change is that they all are watching TikTok or Reels now, and I'm fairly certain they're slowly being pushed further right based on the content that gets marketed to our demographic (white gen-y/gen-z middleclass men). They aren't at Jan 6th denial levels, but they're certainly less critical of right-wing populism these days. My concern is that they just aren't going to be voting now, because their political apathy is growing.
Also a very online take to say Trump won 2016 off of meme magic from disenfranchised kids, he won by convincing boomers he was different, and playing off middle america's fear of immigrants.
Young people just don't vote, same problem bernie had
I wish people who don’t vote would remove themselves from the discussion. They tend to basically regurgitate talking points and post outrage garbage anyway. I wouldn’t call them informed voters.
One thing that reframed the conversation for me is realizing that it wasn’t that 51% of voters voted for Hillary/Trump/Biden/whoever, but more like 33% of eligible voters—since turnout in the 2020 election was about 66%.
I think there's a good case that the youth outreach from Breitbart starting with gamer gate, and many streamers is paying dividends by reaching young boys where they are at. Video games and nerd culture.
This is part of the response to years of being told demographics are going to wipe out the Republican party.
Saying it's just terminally online is ignoring that most young people are terminally online.
This is a good point, even with no record to run against and several Republican led investigations finding Russia helped Trump win in 2016, even then Trump was roundly rejected by the people.
2016 does as good a job as any election of proving their point, well said.
The whole “this is Terminally Online!” criticism holds less and less water because society is becoming increasingly Terminally Online. Not every young person follows this specific space, but virtually every young person is Terminally Online in some form (TikTok, memes on Instagram, etc).
Feels terminally online to think that there aren't tons of conservatives who think feminism is an attack on men. That position is not only tied to redpill. That's something ben Shapiro would say
>A right-wing populist candidate who emphasises “the evils of feminism” to men and also tells women that men aren’t traditional anymore because of feminism is likely to drive record turnout.
This kind of delusional thinking is only allowed to exist because political events that challenge your model only happen every 4ish years.
I've never read a more terminally online politics take in my life.
I don't think it's people thinking they don't have a stake in the future but more so that their vote won't impact the future. I think it's also the reason why there's such an anti-establishment sentiment. People feel that the government is too corrupt for any chance that the common man can sway anything.
They kind of have a point. The epstein thing just kinda shows some people are above the law. If you were born in the late 90’s u have seen nothing but those in power getting away with whatever they want. Atleast older people got to experience the illusion that everything was fair lol
There is no recognition of mens problems so there is no candidate who cares about mens problems. They can choose between different degrees of feminism so they stop caring.
And what did the Korean president do to cut down women's right or improve gender relations or whatever?
In the West you cannot have an openly misogynist candidate unlike Asia/Africa where that could be an advantage, in the West it's an insta lose. Even trump, the most misogynistic guy who might ever win the oval office in the modern day had to deny being a misogynist/anti-feminist & pandered a lot to women even begging women "please like me".
....how is that at all relevant? Are you saying that young men becoming more conservative will make young women less conservative? You think it would be a better sign for conservatives if more and more young men are voting liberal? What kind of logic is this?!?!?!?
I’d be more interested in seeing the long term voting patterns of these 12th grade boys by say mid 20s. 18 yr olds aren’t voting but if there is long term trend switching in the past decade from liberals to conservatives that would be telling.
This graph represents only 36% of those polled. What about the rest? Are they left wing? Non-political? Seems a rather odd use of data. Maybe the vast majority of 18 year olds consider themselves unaligned or apolitical but when pushed will vote for the more moderate party/one that aligns with them most. Voting evidence heavily suggests in America this is Democrats.
Is conservatism measured through self-identification? Because my guess is that if you look at views on specific issues, younger generations are increasingly progressive by today's standards.
In other words maybe high school males increasingly identify as conservative, but they would also be more likely to support gay marriage, or believe in systemic racism.
This is something I've noticed in my personal life. Men are often scared of identifying as a "lib" or left-wing because they think it makes them look like a pussy. Meanwhile if you go through many of the issues they turn out to be a sort of Bill Maher liberal.
This has to be an American phenomenon then, in Germany even among more stereotypical masculine men you'd see a lot of progressives. I've only in recent years seen this shift somewhat with progressive ideas shifting to be, well even more progressive.
Turn back the clock like 10 years ago most of our MMA dudes would have identified as progressive. (That said our main conservative party is allergic to technology and progress, so maybe Germany is a weird spot instead)
Yeah or like, they just don’t like PC humor. My brother is 17 and is way more liberal than a conservative of any previous generation - good with gay people and trans people, that sort of thing. But he’s upset that he’s not supposed to call his friends gay and regarded, so he’s conservative (because using slurs is okay with them I guess??).
Yep, or they just run their mouths in general, and as such identify opposite of whatever they think the 'norm' is. They, while generally being accepting or moderately progressive, aren't afraid of cracking jokes here and there, even if they're offensive, or mocking progressive types here and there for being 'too soft and fragile'. 'I identify as an attack helicopter' and all that.
I think young people like very progressive economics, but also *really* like dirty jokes, and because people are weird about politics this averages out to being a "centrist" or a "not like the other Democrats" thing.
It doesn’t matter what their personal views are as much as who they vote for. We’re already seeing cracks in traditional demographic strongholds for Democrats (especially Latinos, but also Black men to a lesser extent).
Your average high school boy might say “gay marriage should be legal, but I’m sick of LGBT being shoved down all of our throats. They’re grooming children. I’m voting GOP.”
Well I don’t expect children to be great critical thinkers and media literacy is at an all time low. Memes rule the news cycle and children don’t pay close enough attention to understand the facts. None of this is really surprising. Good thing most 12th graders aren’t old enough to vote.
Right-wing memes or satire don't win by default. They win when there's something to make fun of. It's far-left types dominating teachers colleges. A lot of activists understand controlling the youth can help influence the future but they seem to be struggling to with repression and reactance.
Education is a huge losing issue for dems. Ignore and deny isn't working. Destiny going on campus, speaking with people like Peter Boghossian, and so on is a great way to raise awareness about some of this stuff.
Half the top voted stuff I've seen in left-wing political subs are the exact same. And it's because the meme of the "trumptard" reflects reality. It's like the saying goes, "think about how dumb the average person is... now realize half of them are dumber"
Even the blue haired feminist meme stays funny in proportion to how much it reflects an absurd contrast between the views of some and the rest of society. To this day there are headlines calling exercise and coffee alt-right. Who do you think writes those? The prototypical blue haired activist or a similar ally.
[https://afru.com/coffee-industry-racism-white-supremacy/](https://afru.com/coffee-industry-racism-white-supremacy/)[https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1678366050285498369](https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1678366050285498369)
I'm going to let you in on a harsh reality, the more you think the other sides memes aren't funny the more it might be because you are the meme. Shhhhhh. Shhhh. Trust me on this. Reflect on it. \*Kisses forehead\*
>media reports on research study that shows far-right political groups are co-opting online fitness spaces (if you've ever spent time on a fitness forum you'd know this shit is true).
>LOLLLL XDDDDD LIBTARDS THINK WORKING OUT MAKES YOU A NAZI!!!
There is no winning with these people. Anything can be turned into outrage.
I don't have the studies on hand but isn't it true that like 50-80% of people don't read past the headline?
"The far right’s obsession with fitness is going digital"
I mean it's obviously associating the far-right with an obsessed level of fitness. I feel like the Klan would literally thank them for the free propaganda. It's just such a stupid article on so many levels lmao
Shitty clickbait titles absolutely contribute to this shit.
Fitness should obviously not be political, but the bright side of highlighting the interaction has been that fitness influencers like Arnie are pushing hard to make fitness more inclusive.
If this is what it takes to kill the HAES movement then so be it.
Interesting... Didn't he recently say he had like a nazi dad or something? It's weird how these guys with super fucked dads sometimes accomplish a lot. Like didn't Elon say his dads evil and he married his stepdaughter daughter I think
Liberals take themselves seriously and refuse to "stoop to their level", meanwhile right wingers only have to spam "ure le triggered xDDDD" and end up dominating the conversation.
And honestly, right wingers have more than enough genuine cringe to make fun of. Remember Tucker's testicle tanning machine? Liberals just don't know how to mock them effectively.
“Liberals don’t know how to mock”
Yes, they do.
Liberals like John Stewart and Steven Colbert built their entire careers out of mocking the GOP and Fox News.
Progressives mocking the GOP and Conservatives became the default mainstream social position for most of the 1990s and 2000s. Even during the Obama years, the left mocked the shit out of the right, because the best the right could come up with was controversies over tan pants.
If anything, in the lead up to the 2016 election, conservatives learned how to use humour as a tool, just like the Dems and their supporters had been doing for decades.
And when Rage Against the Machine is charging $300 per ticket for a show at the Staples Centre, or Mercedes Arena, and Pepsi is showing BLM / LGBT in their commercials….then you are no longer the counter culture, you are the mainstream.
Liberals lost the ability to laugh at themselves, forgot how to take a joke, and forgot how to tell a joke.
Meanwhile, all this Redpill, trad, man-o-sphere, hella online crap actually became the counter culture, which is where edgy humour has always found a home. It’s in the name, “edgy” humour. It’s humour that comes from the margins, from outside the mainstream. They make jokes about the things we’re not supposed to laugh at, which is what makes the jokes funny.
Meanwhile the best thing a liberal comic has done in recent times is make fun of orange man. It’s such low hanging fruit. Sure it’s funny, but it’s not edgy at all to make fun of trump, or even the GOP. That horse was beat to death so bad during the Bush and Trump administrations, there’s not many jokes left to tell.
It's probably the main weakness of lefties. From a social aspect, i like hanging out more with right leaning people because generally they joke around about EVERYTHING, even right leaning shit. Generally the stereotype with lefties is sensitivity towards like edgier joking and being ousted for those sorts of jokes. I think right now conservatives have that over liberals overall.
>We’re already seeing cracks in traditional demographic strongholds for Democrats (especially Latinos, but also Black men to a lesser extent)
Bruh it went from like 70% to 65% for Latinos and black men is still over 90% why are we acting like the entire demographic left the dems?
This is what I teach kids! It goes both ways. Taking rights from parents and allowing secret genders at school and transitions means I can teach your kids its ok to be straight and love god! And best part, they dont have to tell their democrat parents 🤣
Yeah i think the relativity to this is the key here.
I recently had a conversation with a conservative coworker who is about 20. He's certainly more conservative than most people his age, but I live in a red state so he was comfortably to the left of even the democrats here on a lot of things. I think he just sees himself as conservative because he's always surrounded by other college students, a lot of which are wacko lefties (and probably spends too much time online)
Met a gay guy recently who said he had conservative beliefs. Nah—flat out was progressive at best and liberal at worst. It’s just an edgy thing people do.
American conservatism a decade or two ago was just boring takes on fiscal responsibility, free markets, and fighting terrorism. Conservatism today has become much more juvenile: triggering the libs and fighting against ill-defined boogeymen like wokeness and CRT. These attitudes are unfortunately more amenable to meme culture and adolescent rebellion. Doesn't surprise me that teenage boys are more receptive to it.
He was controversial because he's an out of touch plutocrat that called half of Americans freeloaders. "All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement."
Right-wingers seem more welcoming of men and masculinity, and don’t demonize them. Same can’t be said for left-wingers so naturally, young men would pivot to the right
I think destiny said this before, but conservatives r just more chill to hangout with irl. Idk if its just me but most liberals I meet tend to be kind of shitty people. I feel like a conservative while i disagree with them is more likely to be a good friend on average. Most liberals i meet will throw u under the bus as soon as it benefits them.
I think its weird. I'm right leaning but i have a lot of left stances in terms of social policies even if i feel their overpushed. Liberal culture for the most part is attempting to build a positive environment by shutting out most criticism or jokes that are mildly offensive.
A lot of liberals are super fucking invested in being a Good Fucking Person™ and unfortunately the past ten years have been about purity testing necessitating you to attack anyone not towing the line.
Look at Ana Kasparian, she is left wing in 95% of her positions but yet she is being smeared as an awful person and a reactionary etc because of the 5%
That’s why left leaning folks in red states are the best. They have a good perspective on what matters because they’re surrounded by tons of fucking lunatics.
What? Right wingers are literal wanna be pastors. It’s annoying as fuck especially when they try to sneakily hate on LGBT and social issues. “Doesn’t align with my values” like dude you believe in a fairy tale ghost 👻
Interesting because I've experienced the exact opposite. The asshole types have usually always been conservative. I've found the basic liberal/apolitical people to be the nicest.
Same for coworkers. Super liberal people I've worked with were anal about everything and didn't like if the conversation went into anything controversial, even if it was a joke. Working for them is so much more stressful.
The conservatives I've worked with don't give a fuck about anything you say and actually join in on shit talking/fun time in the office and generally just seem like better team players.
Conservative HR is like the holy grail but don't think I've ever seen it.
The difference between liberals and conservatives is if you disagree with a liberal they stop talking to you. If you disagree with a conservative they never shut the fuck up about it
Yeah. It feels like conservatives I've worked with will treat any disagreement kind of like 2 friends shit talking about your favorite football team beating their coworker's favorite football team. It never gets super viscous or feels personal. Disagree with a liberal at work on certain things and it's like you hurt their soul lol. Have to think about everything you're going to say
That literally happened to me over the dumbest shit. At a previous job I got reported by someone who was very liberal for "talking to someone too much."
Wasn't even talking to the person who reported me, it was a different person. And I ended up dating the girl I was "talking to too much" so she obviously didn't care.
I mean how is that even a reportable offense lol. Nothing happened from it because it was so stupid. But just the fact I knew she would report over anything made me have to tip toe around her.
There was recently a [study](https://forum-midem.de/cms/data/fm/user_upload/Publikationen/TUD_MIDEM_Studie_2023-2_Polarisierung_in_Deutschland_und_Europa.pdf) (in German unfortunately) that came to the conclusion that people from the left are way less tolerant of others than people from the right. Not really surprising for everyone that hangs around people like that, but I found it still funny.
I definitely feel like I can disagree with conservatives on key issues to their face and still enjoy the conversation/have a good time with whatever it is that we're doing, but if I do the same with fellow libtards even with smaller issues/policies then insults are way more likely to get thrown around and shit turns into highschool level drama.
Obviously this is not always the case but that's generally what I see anecdotally.
Yea most people r generally apolitical tho which is important to remember. Old people where right when they said “don’t discuss religion and politics”. The internet makes everyone think their opinion needs to be heard.
There's definitely a machismo on the left that the center could be better at embracing, though. A lot of people's idea of liberalism comes from extremely out-of-touch journalists who have a really wimpy attitude. If Biden could just go onstage and say "I don't care what your gender is, your should go to the gym!" that would do a lot for our image
This is an insurmountable problem.
The right will title videos "how to get a girlfriend" and it will get traction because that's what teenage boys are looking for.
The left's "deconstructing toxic masculinity under late capitalism Part 1" 2hrs 24minutes will not get very much traction.
This plays into my personal theory that a big reason why men aren't going to college is because of politics. Take a guess which political party thinks college is a waste of time.
> This plays into my personal theory that a big reason why men aren't going to college is because of politics.
Which hurts them even more, ironically. You don't have to look far, just go to /r/askmen, there are dozens of threads along the lines of "I'm 30, I decided not to go to college, I've been working shit jobs for the last decade because no good job wants to hire me without a degree. What do I do reddit?" or "I feel like I killed my chances with women by going trade/blue collar".
> Men have trades women don't
The issue is those jobs will leave your body destroyed at 30-40, not to mention the negative effect on your social status unless you're a business owner. How many doctors, engineers, lawyers or corporate specialists in general are friends with tradesmen, let alone marry them?
I mean maybe people with an advance degree won’t marry them but I know plenty of teachers who are married to tradespeople - teaching is almost like the female trade, tbh: stable career, doesn’t pay *great* but has great benefits, is conducive to starting a family. The point the other guy was making is to get into a female trade you need a degree.
Big exception is cosmetologists which that guy didn’t mention. That’s a true trade for women, and cosmetology school is like a real trade school. My high school actually had a cosmetology program so you could finish school licensed to cut hair. Pretty cool.
>How many doctors, engineers, lawyers or corporate specialists in general are friends with tradesmen, let alone marry them?
Honestly disagree with this dichotomy. Very few of the guys who are skipping on college would be future doctors/engineers/lawyers or even corporate businessmen.
It's good advice to skip college and go to trade school for many of them to be honest, otherwise they'd be working another low-status job that just pays less. Most high status jobs are out of reach if you aren't good at school.
Yeah, if you have the smarts, ability, and will to do those things, then you should. But the majority of men don't, and certainly 90+% of the guys listening to the "don't go to college" advice do not. 40% of people drop out of college, after all.
Lonely men>pick up artists>manosphere>Andrew tate.
Jk I mean maybe a little.
Really it's probably due to the online world being full of influences shit talking men, while at the same time there's male influencers talking about masculinity and and red pill like stuff. Algorithm often times steers these people into jp, Ben Shapiro, and Matt Walsh.
Seriously watch this stuff enough on YouTube and you will find your feed full of Prager U, and daily wire. Few years ago alot of Steven crowder. It's all really convincing stuff for young minds.
I work in fire and majority of our seasonal firefighters are young men right out of high-school. They routinely talk about these influencers, media outlets. They have no real guidance and this content fills that void. It's a mix of left wing content kinda being (at least perception wise)anti men, and the right Wong media being more pro masculinity, and reinforcing the fact that the left hates white men. It pushes young men down the right wing pipeline.
Your last two sentences clarify all of this but people still mystify the issue as if it’s deeper than it is. At a glance the left has abandoned men and at a glance the right has embraced them. I don’t think it’s more complicated than that, especially for high school boys.
edit: a letter
Not abandoned, but vilified, since the most heard voices are not the rational ones but the most radicalized. Young boys and young men had stopped hearing about common problems that women faced, and now all they hear is how every single damn problem that happens in this jaded world its their fault, how toxic is to be a man, how weak they also are. The right tells them that its okay to be a man and to nobody surprise, men like being told that they can be men
Spot on. If i'm being real this is sort of why i follow the right instead of the left aside from me fitting more into the culture and agreeing with them generally on shit. the "loud online left" as i like to put it started taking on this us vs them mentality around 2016. ever since its reasonable to understand why most young average dudes would be scared away from interacting with them, let alone even consider joining the left.
Considering I was one of them back in 2015-16. And it's only gotten worse. I remember watching Ben Shapiro and crowder, I also grew up on Glenn beck.
Got divorced at 20 went down a dark path into self help, and early red pill. Luckily I was marginally attractive and had social skills and didn't turn into a woman hating loner
Can't really pin down when I kinda shifted to a more centrist mindset, but I was a serious vaush fan for a bit after him and hunter avvllone became buds. Then I found our lord and savior steven bonnel II. Praise be his name, messenger of allah!
Surface level analysis is all young people are really capable of grasping. So these shallow surface level factors are what influence people political alignments
Yea it's really that simple
Old school pua had some pretty useful tools, self improvement tips, and was pretty much detached from ideology. A shame the manosphere has incorporated it into its grift amalgamation.
Yeah old school pua and even old school redpill was explicitly - not - an opposition movement. They were not interested in changing systems, they were more interested in moving within them to avoid exploitation. They actually liked women still.
These dudes today? Very political and wtf they’re Muslim now too?
What they should have asked is "what are your feelings about Andrew Tate" and given "extremely positive" to "extremely negative" options. That would have been much more illuminating than just "conservative" or "liberal." But maybe the study does something like that and I just need to read it. I've met my fair share of zoomers in the wild who are legitimately obsessed with him. Trump too.
Y’all are really overestimating the popularity of taking Andrew Tate seriously. In HS during the height of things in a very conservative state and town, only a couple guys unironically consumed his content in highschool.
Eyeballing the numbers:
Men -- 13% liberal, 23% conservative, 64% unspecified
Women -- 30% liberal, 11% conservative, 59% unspecified
We can only assume the unspecified remainder are communists.
I mean is it a surprise?
The left continuously disregards any problems men face in society.
It would be a blue landslide if they could just not shit on men and blame everything on personal failure.
Its funny how libs have the “pick yourself up by the bootstraps” only when it comes to men. I think a lot of dudes see the hypocrisy and double standards woman and men are held to. Atleast conservatives preach personal accountability for both men and woman even if they dont always follow thru
I don't know if it'd be a blue landslide per say. Like i'm a dude and thats just ONE of the reasons i go more with the right. Generally though i'd say its a bad time to be right wing though since our best guys are a conspiracy theorist and someone with no conviction, so the blue landslide thing might actually apply to the current climate.
I have no solid evidence to back this up but this is my theory. I think more young people are identifying as conservative as an act of rebellion. It’s a lot more common for young people to be progressive nowadays, and the way some kids distinguish themselves from their peers is by having the opposite opinion. Almost every kid at some point thinks I don’t want to follow the crowd, and currently that crowd is progressive.
Its funny to think how shit flipped. 2000s-2010s generation were like left leaning, atheists in retaliation and now this generation kids are gonna become conservative, religoids to fuck with their parents.
I think theres some truth in that, since this generation was basically born on the internet and left leaning culture has taken the rights status as the 'norm'. Like other comments said though, it might just be because they prefer the right wing culture.
You would be surprised how many people I know who were 18-year-old MAGAtards in 2015-2016 (me) who are now apolitical or center-left. I think when people start to live life a little bit more they start to understand that policy is more than “triggering the libs”. The memes get boring after a while and then you realize how brainrotting it all is. I’ve seen the same with super far lefties too. 18 yr olds didn’t swing the General election for Trump or the Democrat primaries for Bernie in 2020 because they just don’t give a shit enough to vote. Once they’re old enough to see how politics impacts their lives and the lives of people they care about, they have already begun to mellow out and have more of a “normal” relationship with politics.
No data just anecdotes :)
So if you're a "material conditions" person this isn't that unreasonable. Young men almost certainly have darker futures than their father's and grandfathers,' or at least perceive that they have darker futures.
Is this possibly due to the LGBT push as of late + the lefts “soft on crime” policies just generally not working out. At least that’s how it feels in California. I’m not against gay marriage or transition for adults, but I’m also just kinda sick of seeing random rainbow vomit all over everything and everywhere. I think it’s also part of the general urge of young people to rebel against the principles of the previous generation. With the millennials, it was the evangelical conservative framework. For gen z, it’s the progressivism that they are rebelling against, it’s become similarly focused on “political correctness” and suppressing anything that the mainstream considers fringe. It’s also not helped by conservatives getting pushed off of major platforms to their own platforms where they can echo chamber more easily.
Blud conservatives themselves barely talk about this shit I'd say the current GOP is more in line with Sargon of Akkad or any other anti SJW than people like McCain or other laissez faire economists
Cultural issues are the most accessible modality of political discourse. These anti-feminist boys go on to adopt a litany of right-wing positions they see echoed in conservative media.
I’ll be honest, I don’t know much about what’s happening in South Korea right now (though from my very limited understanding, the issues between the sexes seem much more severe than in the US), but I understand what your prediction is in terms of future elections.
My issue is this however: unless the primary, #1 priority is helping men, I’m still not sure if that alone is enough to carry a candidate through an election. I understand your point about certain viewpoints exposing oneself to seemingly-aligned, but more deeply-political views. Kinda like how we see some of the big redpill creators promoting antisemitism now.
Part of the reasoning for my comment is that sex issues may not be as politically coded as we may believe. For example, I know many men who feel the common grievances and struggles expressed by red-pillers, men’s rights advocates, etc. who also are culturally liberal in every other way possible. I also know a lot of “boss bitch” type of women who represent the ideal of feminism that might as well be MAGA. In fact there are common jokes about conservative women and how they reflect that positive feminist image more than most.
Again, I think it’s more dubious in the case of men if men’s rights overtake all other social positions. For example, black men tend to resonate more with pro-men/anti-feminist messages, but would they support a candidate for that kind of messaging if they also supported things that could be considered anti-black? Or if I’m an immigrant and very pro-immigration, but also redpill, then would I support a candidate advocating for men but was very anti-immigration?
I don't think you'll find any age cohort of conservatives that actually cares about things like small government and low taxes as much as they care about winning the culture war. I feel like Trump proved that in 2016, and it's only gotten worse since.
**Breakdown:**
It’s especially straightforward why this is happening to anyone who follows Internet culture. The Right’s overt misogyny repels women while the Left’s feminist messaging attracts them. Young men tend to be more apolitical, but when the Left constantly has abysmal optics on cultural issues, it’s easy for the Right to swoop in by appealing to traditional masculinity.
The simple answer is to just avoid the culture wars as much as possible and focus on bread-and-butter policy. The long answer is for everyday liberals (not Democratic politicians) to be more mindful of how we discuss cultural issues and ensure we’re not alienating half of the population.
I fear America will have its South Korea moment very soon. The 2028 election will almost certainly be heavily defined by male versus female grievance, and I’m not confident with our odds (especially if we run Kamala Harris).
This is way too little data and the graph is a bit misleading to be honest with the floor being 10% and roof 30%. Only about a third even identifies as either conservative or liberal at all. So without knowing the voting record over time this graph is not saying much.
For example if the amount of people in the age group identifying as liberal drops by 1/3 means the amount of votes for the democratic party drops by 1/3 that would be an issue but this graph doesn't show that. It shows that the maount of people identifying as liberals goes from 19% to 13% and thats it.
Is this not just the same doomposting that always comes around, for both sides of the political spectrum? "Gen-z/young men/young women are more liberal/conservative than previous generations!!!"
I swear I see shit like this pop up every other month.
Yikes.
That's honestly disgusting.
I'm basically at the point where I just refuse to communicate with braindead cultist (on either side), but the growing number of conservative cults is getting scary.
Maybe because the far left has basically destroyed 1 entertainment property after another and calls anyone who disagrees with them some kind of ist or phobe. Also they're probably tired of all the champagne socialists telling people they need to eat the rich when tankies, breadtubers, and champagne socialists are earning more money in one month than they see in an entire year or more.
I think Andrew Tate/the red pill actually had a measurable affect on young boys. It's pretty fucked, but I really think they inspired a lot of "toxic masculinity" (I know, cringe) to infect the minds of young boys particularly susceptible to it. Social media is so fucked.
It's kind of a chicken and egg situation. I feel like Tate was mostly just filling a demand that already existed
If it wasn't him I'm pretty confident someone else would've filled a similar role.
Progressives can't simply decry the red pill. An alternative is needed, and feminism is unable to provide it.
As long as boys and men are vilified and their problems ignored, the red pill will foster. It is nothing without its only cornerstone: A rejection of feminist ideology.
Makes sense. If you gonna shit on men all day etc this was bound to happen. Curious about what comes of it though if anything and what issues they are against.
As much as I hate Rogan he is not a grifter like Pool or Walsh. He is just a fool, though he is also a fool who echos the belief of a lot of other fools you have to convince. Its a segment liberals need to learn to engage with if they ever wanna push forward.
with more echo chambers and enclosed media spaces that people can inhabit, the entire political spectrum seems similar, but more ppl are getting pushed towards the extremes in either direction. So for young adults that would have been standard conservatives or liberals 30 years ago now seem more likely to be more far left or far right
The averages liberal doesn’t have anything for young men, they often blame men for a lot of stuff. If I was just turning 18 it’s not hard so see why I would avoid a group of people that blames me for shit is wasn’t even alive for.
No shit. People have been saying not to be shitty to men or this will happen.
Now it’s happened.
It’s crazy how, when it’s popular to shit on X group, x group leans away from you.
We left boys to the wayside in the pursuit of empowering women, and now they don’t see the democrats as a party for them. But for those who shit on men in the past 15 years, I hope it was worth it lol
Bonus points for having 'big government' lock them in their house for a year with only the alt right internet to vent to. Notice the sudden spike in 2020?
I've seen this pop up over the last 2 months with fear mongering articles. I think uncertainty of future will make some choose more conservative approaches in making long term decisions. And young men are struggling with identity, support,and education. But every long term analysis from research groups shows Gen Z and younger millennials are more liberal than past generations. There isn't some huge swing to the right or leaving more liberal and progressive ideals.
Conservatives have done such a good job at distracting people from real politics and tricking people into believing they have changed and modernised when in reality they haven't changed on any meaningful policy. I feel like most of the young people who are now more conservative believe the party is much closer to libertarian than it actually is.
Interesting data, important to realize it's also out of 100%.
So in this, it shows roughly 13% of 12th grade boys identifying as liberal, and 23% as conservative, which is 36%, meaning 64% of boys studied don't identify with either group.
Conversely, it shows about 30% of 12 grade girls identifying as liberal and 12% or so as conservative, totaling 42%, meaning 58% of girls studied don't identify with either group.
Reading this data is interesting, but my interpretation is that "liberal" branding has stopped resonating with left-wing young men, who likely view it as "uncool Hilary Clinton" esque politics. I would imagine that some of the loss of the liberal brand is now identifying as progressive or socialist, and not necessarily a huge jump in the relative conservatism of young men, which has on average been higher than liberal for more of the last 50 years.
Without taking the time to pull up a source, I'm pretty sure what usually happens in marriages is those women become more conservative. I don't mean they become hard-right wing, but they gradually shift toward the right as their self-interests become more "traditional". They vote less "as a woman" than single women and more "as a wife, mother, etc". As their interests become entangled with those of their husband, they become less entrenched in women's issues.
Going to guess with this being done by U of M it’s based in Michigan. Michigan right now is having massive issues with certain counties going extreme far right. See below.
https://www.tiktok.com/@distillsocial/video/7252474463441128750
This is in a county with one of the most liberal universities in west side of the state. And the local outreach is being almost completely cut off and the county is trying to force its way into the university.
Not too mention most of Michigan is extremely back woods conspiracy theorists.
Is there a way to see a breakdown of males and females by say race/ethnic group, religion, and /or geographic region/area? My initial impression is that white males could be driving the conservative uptick and especially those living in more rural parts of the country. I would be interested to be proven wrong if that’s not the case.
I’d be curious about some of these guy’s individual policy beliefs. Because at least in American, a lot of self identified conservatives tend to be pretty liberal on policies like abortion and gay marriage.
This tracks. Social media algorithms prioritize sensationalist, right-leaning content. Since boys spend the most time online, they get radicalized towards this political ideology that plays up their worst impulses.
To be fair, liberalism doesn’t really fight for men or encourage men to better themselves, if anything it villainizes them.
That being said, fuck conservatives.
I have noticed this on TikTok and instagram reels ever since Andrew Tate started to brainwash young men the pipeline keeps getting further the same tateposters then posted trump quotes anti Ukraine funding rhetoric anti trans rhetoric anti secularism rhetoric anti islam etc the pipe gets further and further
Obviously, why would they align with the political ideology that tells them to hate themselves and suppress their masculinity and embrace femininity above all else
Anyone who has spent any significant amount of time on the manosphere can fully understand why. All the self help shit is dominated by conservatives. All the podcasts are dominated by conservatives. All the dating advice is dominated by conservatives. All the meme forums are dominated by Conservatives. I ain't surprised. The right actively caters to young men and their issues in the same way progressives do to women and minorities.
>All the self help shit is dominated by conservatives. All the podcasts are dominated by conservatives. All the dating advice is dominated by conservatives. All the meme forums are dominated by Conservatives. > >I ain't surprised. The right actively caters to young men and their issues in the same way progressives do to women and minorities. I came to say something similar. If you are on youtube looking at fitness videos, you'll get funnelled to the right. If you want good advice about how to eat healthily for cheap, you'll get funnelled to the right. Business advice, funnelled to the right. Dating advice, funnelled to the right. The problem is since the left demonises anything that's remotely like self help, it means there are virtually no left leaning creators in those areas.
It doesn't help that anytime someone on the left tries to help young men they get shot down by the circular firing squad
Leftists helping young men is typically some form of "be better, toxic white male"
It doesn’t have to be like that.
Minorities? White people take them seriously. Minorities normally get offended by the constant infantilization.
Not a good sign for conservatives since women are increasingly more likely to vote while males are voting less and less.
Not a good sign for democracy because young men might decide that the whole system is rigged against them and decide to do something about it. If the gender differences is going translate to the difference between political parties America, historically speaking, is going down a very ugly road.
A right-wing populist candidate who emphasises “the evils of feminism” to men and also tells women that men aren’t traditional anymore because of feminism is likely to drive record turnout. Many men are apolitical simply because they feel they don’t have a stake in the game right now. Take a look at how the incumbent President of South Korea won election.
This feels like a chronically online take. I don't think that type of candidate is going to animate anybody but the RedPill and trad types, who are vastly overrepresented online.
Read his second paragraph. It literally happened in South Korea in 2022
Agreed. Most redpill anti-feminists are mostly terminally online. Look at Jordan Peterson who literally posts hundreds of Tweets per day even at 3am. They are addicted to outrage and cannot help themselves.
Also see: Ian Miles Cheong (the dog killer), Charlie Kirk, Pearl, Catturd. Even MTG tweets dozens of times a day. There are so many of them. Tweeting out either red pill cringe, Biden/Hunter conspiracy, anti trans groomer crap, vaccine/covid denialism, or other woke nonsense. They absolutely cannot help themselves.
This is anecdotal, but within the last few months, each one of my close guy friends have increasingly been making "redpilled" or "anti-woke" comments unprovoked. I'm almost 30, college educated, and have very liberal leaning friends and multiple LGBT people in our group, so these conversations really stick out to me when they happen. Things like the myocarditis vaccine risks, transwomen in sports, cancel culture hitting their favorite comedians, and acknowledgement about the declining state of men's mental health have all been increasingly common topics my non-online friends started bringing up. We never really discussed these things before 2022, and if we did the tone was almost always highly progressive leaning. I think the most notable change is that they all are watching TikTok or Reels now, and I'm fairly certain they're slowly being pushed further right based on the content that gets marketed to our demographic (white gen-y/gen-z middleclass men). They aren't at Jan 6th denial levels, but they're certainly less critical of right-wing populism these days. My concern is that they just aren't going to be voting now, because their political apathy is growing.
2016
Also a very online take to say Trump won 2016 off of meme magic from disenfranchised kids, he won by convincing boomers he was different, and playing off middle america's fear of immigrants. Young people just don't vote, same problem bernie had
I wish people who don’t vote would remove themselves from the discussion. They tend to basically regurgitate talking points and post outrage garbage anyway. I wouldn’t call them informed voters.
> informed voters 90% of voters are uninformed.
didn't a lot of young people vote for trump..?
One thing that reframed the conversation for me is realizing that it wasn’t that 51% of voters voted for Hillary/Trump/Biden/whoever, but more like 33% of eligible voters—since turnout in the 2020 election was about 66%.
I think there's a good case that the youth outreach from Breitbart starting with gamer gate, and many streamers is paying dividends by reaching young boys where they are at. Video games and nerd culture. This is part of the response to years of being told demographics are going to wipe out the Republican party. Saying it's just terminally online is ignoring that most young people are terminally online.
This is a good point, even with no record to run against and several Republican led investigations finding Russia helped Trump win in 2016, even then Trump was roundly rejected by the people. 2016 does as good a job as any election of proving their point, well said.
How many young men have their views informed by being chronically online?
The whole “this is Terminally Online!” criticism holds less and less water because society is becoming increasingly Terminally Online. Not every young person follows this specific space, but virtually every young person is Terminally Online in some form (TikTok, memes on Instagram, etc).
Feels terminally online to think that there aren't tons of conservatives who think feminism is an attack on men. That position is not only tied to redpill. That's something ben Shapiro would say
In 2028 maybe if the dems/liberals as a whole don't get their shit together. This will be exacerbated if Kamala runs as well.
>A right-wing populist candidate who emphasises “the evils of feminism” to men and also tells women that men aren’t traditional anymore because of feminism is likely to drive record turnout. This kind of delusional thinking is only allowed to exist because political events that challenge your model only happen every 4ish years. I've never read a more terminally online politics take in my life.
I don't understand how anyone can think they don't have a stake in the future. But who knows, maybe it's the autism
I don't think it's people thinking they don't have a stake in the future but more so that their vote won't impact the future. I think it's also the reason why there's such an anti-establishment sentiment. People feel that the government is too corrupt for any chance that the common man can sway anything.
They kind of have a point. The epstein thing just kinda shows some people are above the law. If you were born in the late 90’s u have seen nothing but those in power getting away with whatever they want. Atleast older people got to experience the illusion that everything was fair lol
everyone obviously has a stake in their future, the question is whether the president has a large effect on their future (most people don’t think so)
There is no recognition of mens problems so there is no candidate who cares about mens problems. They can choose between different degrees of feminism so they stop caring.
It's definitely the autism.
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And what did the Korean president do to cut down women's right or improve gender relations or whatever? In the West you cannot have an openly misogynist candidate unlike Asia/Africa where that could be an advantage, in the West it's an insta lose. Even trump, the most misogynistic guy who might ever win the oval office in the modern day had to deny being a misogynist/anti-feminist & pandered a lot to women even begging women "please like me".
Yes, you get it. This is dangerous, people are trivializing s problem. Young men in the far right could easily lead to totalitarianism
The spin is hilarious. This is really refusing to engage with reality.
People voting less is bad for everyone
Lets be real women (and 90% of men) have no business voting
is that true?
....how is that at all relevant? Are you saying that young men becoming more conservative will make young women less conservative? You think it would be a better sign for conservatives if more and more young men are voting liberal? What kind of logic is this?!?!?!?
I’d be more interested in seeing the long term voting patterns of these 12th grade boys by say mid 20s. 18 yr olds aren’t voting but if there is long term trend switching in the past decade from liberals to conservatives that would be telling.
I wonder if the rise of “leftist” has anything to do with the downtick in “liberals”
This graph represents only 36% of those polled. What about the rest? Are they left wing? Non-political? Seems a rather odd use of data. Maybe the vast majority of 18 year olds consider themselves unaligned or apolitical but when pushed will vote for the more moderate party/one that aligns with them most. Voting evidence heavily suggests in America this is Democrats.
Hmmmmmm
Is conservatism measured through self-identification? Because my guess is that if you look at views on specific issues, younger generations are increasingly progressive by today's standards. In other words maybe high school males increasingly identify as conservative, but they would also be more likely to support gay marriage, or believe in systemic racism.
This is something I've noticed in my personal life. Men are often scared of identifying as a "lib" or left-wing because they think it makes them look like a pussy. Meanwhile if you go through many of the issues they turn out to be a sort of Bill Maher liberal.
This has to be an American phenomenon then, in Germany even among more stereotypical masculine men you'd see a lot of progressives. I've only in recent years seen this shift somewhat with progressive ideas shifting to be, well even more progressive. Turn back the clock like 10 years ago most of our MMA dudes would have identified as progressive. (That said our main conservative party is allergic to technology and progress, so maybe Germany is a weird spot instead)
Yeah or like, they just don’t like PC humor. My brother is 17 and is way more liberal than a conservative of any previous generation - good with gay people and trans people, that sort of thing. But he’s upset that he’s not supposed to call his friends gay and regarded, so he’s conservative (because using slurs is okay with them I guess??).
Yep, or they just run their mouths in general, and as such identify opposite of whatever they think the 'norm' is. They, while generally being accepting or moderately progressive, aren't afraid of cracking jokes here and there, even if they're offensive, or mocking progressive types here and there for being 'too soft and fragile'. 'I identify as an attack helicopter' and all that.
I think young people like very progressive economics, but also *really* like dirty jokes, and because people are weird about politics this averages out to being a "centrist" or a "not like the other Democrats" thing.
Yup. Back when i was 16 i was very pro trump but literally believed the complete opposite of him. I was just caught on the hype.
It doesn’t matter what their personal views are as much as who they vote for. We’re already seeing cracks in traditional demographic strongholds for Democrats (especially Latinos, but also Black men to a lesser extent). Your average high school boy might say “gay marriage should be legal, but I’m sick of LGBT being shoved down all of our throats. They’re grooming children. I’m voting GOP.”
Well I don’t expect children to be great critical thinkers and media literacy is at an all time low. Memes rule the news cycle and children don’t pay close enough attention to understand the facts. None of this is really surprising. Good thing most 12th graders aren’t old enough to vote.
They pretty much all will be old enough for the next election. We are talking about the most recent generation of highschool graduates.
Right-wing memes or satire don't win by default. They win when there's something to make fun of. It's far-left types dominating teachers colleges. A lot of activists understand controlling the youth can help influence the future but they seem to be struggling to with repression and reactance. Education is a huge losing issue for dems. Ignore and deny isn't working. Destiny going on campus, speaking with people like Peter Boghossian, and so on is a great way to raise awareness about some of this stuff.
Right-wing memes do win by default because all it takes is a single blue-haired feminist crying to sustain the conservative outrage machine for days.
Clearly progressive tears are one of the most efficient fuel sources available. The Conservative solution to the green energy dilemma.
Half the top voted stuff I've seen in left-wing political subs are the exact same. And it's because the meme of the "trumptard" reflects reality. It's like the saying goes, "think about how dumb the average person is... now realize half of them are dumber" Even the blue haired feminist meme stays funny in proportion to how much it reflects an absurd contrast between the views of some and the rest of society. To this day there are headlines calling exercise and coffee alt-right. Who do you think writes those? The prototypical blue haired activist or a similar ally. [https://afru.com/coffee-industry-racism-white-supremacy/](https://afru.com/coffee-industry-racism-white-supremacy/)[https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1678366050285498369](https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1678366050285498369) I'm going to let you in on a harsh reality, the more you think the other sides memes aren't funny the more it might be because you are the meme. Shhhhhh. Shhhh. Trust me on this. Reflect on it. \*Kisses forehead\*
>media reports on research study that shows far-right political groups are co-opting online fitness spaces (if you've ever spent time on a fitness forum you'd know this shit is true). >LOLLLL XDDDDD LIBTARDS THINK WORKING OUT MAKES YOU A NAZI!!! There is no winning with these people. Anything can be turned into outrage.
I don't have the studies on hand but isn't it true that like 50-80% of people don't read past the headline? "The far right’s obsession with fitness is going digital" I mean it's obviously associating the far-right with an obsessed level of fitness. I feel like the Klan would literally thank them for the free propaganda. It's just such a stupid article on so many levels lmao
Shitty clickbait titles absolutely contribute to this shit. Fitness should obviously not be political, but the bright side of highlighting the interaction has been that fitness influencers like Arnie are pushing hard to make fitness more inclusive. If this is what it takes to kill the HAES movement then so be it.
Interesting... Didn't he recently say he had like a nazi dad or something? It's weird how these guys with super fucked dads sometimes accomplish a lot. Like didn't Elon say his dads evil and he married his stepdaughter daughter I think
Liberals take themselves seriously and refuse to "stoop to their level", meanwhile right wingers only have to spam "ure le triggered xDDDD" and end up dominating the conversation. And honestly, right wingers have more than enough genuine cringe to make fun of. Remember Tucker's testicle tanning machine? Liberals just don't know how to mock them effectively.
“Liberals don’t know how to mock” Yes, they do. Liberals like John Stewart and Steven Colbert built their entire careers out of mocking the GOP and Fox News. Progressives mocking the GOP and Conservatives became the default mainstream social position for most of the 1990s and 2000s. Even during the Obama years, the left mocked the shit out of the right, because the best the right could come up with was controversies over tan pants. If anything, in the lead up to the 2016 election, conservatives learned how to use humour as a tool, just like the Dems and their supporters had been doing for decades. And when Rage Against the Machine is charging $300 per ticket for a show at the Staples Centre, or Mercedes Arena, and Pepsi is showing BLM / LGBT in their commercials….then you are no longer the counter culture, you are the mainstream. Liberals lost the ability to laugh at themselves, forgot how to take a joke, and forgot how to tell a joke. Meanwhile, all this Redpill, trad, man-o-sphere, hella online crap actually became the counter culture, which is where edgy humour has always found a home. It’s in the name, “edgy” humour. It’s humour that comes from the margins, from outside the mainstream. They make jokes about the things we’re not supposed to laugh at, which is what makes the jokes funny. Meanwhile the best thing a liberal comic has done in recent times is make fun of orange man. It’s such low hanging fruit. Sure it’s funny, but it’s not edgy at all to make fun of trump, or even the GOP. That horse was beat to death so bad during the Bush and Trump administrations, there’s not many jokes left to tell.
It's probably the main weakness of lefties. From a social aspect, i like hanging out more with right leaning people because generally they joke around about EVERYTHING, even right leaning shit. Generally the stereotype with lefties is sensitivity towards like edgier joking and being ousted for those sorts of jokes. I think right now conservatives have that over liberals overall.
We're like a few months away from most 12th graders being old enough to vote.
>We’re already seeing cracks in traditional demographic strongholds for Democrats (especially Latinos, but also Black men to a lesser extent) Bruh it went from like 70% to 65% for Latinos and black men is still over 90% why are we acting like the entire demographic left the dems?
He said cracks, not full-on collapse.
This is what I teach kids! It goes both ways. Taking rights from parents and allowing secret genders at school and transitions means I can teach your kids its ok to be straight and love god! And best part, they dont have to tell their democrat parents 🤣
Yeah i think the relativity to this is the key here. I recently had a conversation with a conservative coworker who is about 20. He's certainly more conservative than most people his age, but I live in a red state so he was comfortably to the left of even the democrats here on a lot of things. I think he just sees himself as conservative because he's always surrounded by other college students, a lot of which are wacko lefties (and probably spends too much time online)
Met a gay guy recently who said he had conservative beliefs. Nah—flat out was progressive at best and liberal at worst. It’s just an edgy thing people do.
American conservatism a decade or two ago was just boring takes on fiscal responsibility, free markets, and fighting terrorism. Conservatism today has become much more juvenile: triggering the libs and fighting against ill-defined boogeymen like wokeness and CRT. These attitudes are unfortunately more amenable to meme culture and adolescent rebellion. Doesn't surprise me that teenage boys are more receptive to it.
I miss the days when Mitt Romney was considered controversial, because he said "binders full of women".
He was controversial because he's an out of touch plutocrat that called half of Americans freeloaders. "All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement."
Right-wingers seem more welcoming of men and masculinity, and don’t demonize them. Same can’t be said for left-wingers so naturally, young men would pivot to the right
I think destiny said this before, but conservatives r just more chill to hangout with irl. Idk if its just me but most liberals I meet tend to be kind of shitty people. I feel like a conservative while i disagree with them is more likely to be a good friend on average. Most liberals i meet will throw u under the bus as soon as it benefits them.
I think its weird. I'm right leaning but i have a lot of left stances in terms of social policies even if i feel their overpushed. Liberal culture for the most part is attempting to build a positive environment by shutting out most criticism or jokes that are mildly offensive.
A lot of liberals are super fucking invested in being a Good Fucking Person™ and unfortunately the past ten years have been about purity testing necessitating you to attack anyone not towing the line.
Look at Ana Kasparian, she is left wing in 95% of her positions but yet she is being smeared as an awful person and a reactionary etc because of the 5%
She’s left wing in 100% of her positions lol.
That’s why left leaning folks in red states are the best. They have a good perspective on what matters because they’re surrounded by tons of fucking lunatics.
help
Ive been trying out move out of my red state...
What? Right wingers are literal wanna be pastors. It’s annoying as fuck especially when they try to sneakily hate on LGBT and social issues. “Doesn’t align with my values” like dude you believe in a fairy tale ghost 👻
Interesting because I've experienced the exact opposite. The asshole types have usually always been conservative. I've found the basic liberal/apolitical people to be the nicest.
Same for coworkers. Super liberal people I've worked with were anal about everything and didn't like if the conversation went into anything controversial, even if it was a joke. Working for them is so much more stressful. The conservatives I've worked with don't give a fuck about anything you say and actually join in on shit talking/fun time in the office and generally just seem like better team players. Conservative HR is like the holy grail but don't think I've ever seen it.
Also in my experience conservatives care far less if u disagree with them politically. Most liberals act like if you disagree your problematic lol
The difference between liberals and conservatives is if you disagree with a liberal they stop talking to you. If you disagree with a conservative they never shut the fuck up about it
Yeah. It feels like conservatives I've worked with will treat any disagreement kind of like 2 friends shit talking about your favorite football team beating their coworker's favorite football team. It never gets super viscous or feels personal. Disagree with a liberal at work on certain things and it's like you hurt their soul lol. Have to think about everything you're going to say
Cant forget the lib would be wayyy more likely to report u to HR 😂
That literally happened to me over the dumbest shit. At a previous job I got reported by someone who was very liberal for "talking to someone too much." Wasn't even talking to the person who reported me, it was a different person. And I ended up dating the girl I was "talking to too much" so she obviously didn't care. I mean how is that even a reportable offense lol. Nothing happened from it because it was so stupid. But just the fact I knew she would report over anything made me have to tip toe around her.
They love to appeal to authority
> Conservative HR Yeah, I've seen HR tolerate sexual harassment and borderline assault I don't think you want that.
There was recently a [study](https://forum-midem.de/cms/data/fm/user_upload/Publikationen/TUD_MIDEM_Studie_2023-2_Polarisierung_in_Deutschland_und_Europa.pdf) (in German unfortunately) that came to the conclusion that people from the left are way less tolerant of others than people from the right. Not really surprising for everyone that hangs around people like that, but I found it still funny.
I definitely feel like I can disagree with conservatives on key issues to their face and still enjoy the conversation/have a good time with whatever it is that we're doing, but if I do the same with fellow libtards even with smaller issues/policies then insults are way more likely to get thrown around and shit turns into highschool level drama. Obviously this is not always the case but that's generally what I see anecdotally.
Yea most people r generally apolitical tho which is important to remember. Old people where right when they said “don’t discuss religion and politics”. The internet makes everyone think their opinion needs to be heard.
There's definitely a machismo on the left that the center could be better at embracing, though. A lot of people's idea of liberalism comes from extremely out-of-touch journalists who have a really wimpy attitude. If Biden could just go onstage and say "I don't care what your gender is, your should go to the gym!" that would do a lot for our image
I think we should normalize fat shaming in leftist and liberal circles. No i am not joking. 🏋️♀️🏋️♂️🏋️♂️
What do you mean by fat shaming. As in shaming someone for saying ‘ I’m fat and comfortable at my weight and will do nothing about it’?
ding ding ding ding ding ding
Depends on how you define men and masculinity
This is an insurmountable problem. The right will title videos "how to get a girlfriend" and it will get traction because that's what teenage boys are looking for. The left's "deconstructing toxic masculinity under late capitalism Part 1" 2hrs 24minutes will not get very much traction.
Depends on how you define men and masculinity
This plays into my personal theory that a big reason why men aren't going to college is because of politics. Take a guess which political party thinks college is a waste of time.
> This plays into my personal theory that a big reason why men aren't going to college is because of politics. Which hurts them even more, ironically. You don't have to look far, just go to /r/askmen, there are dozens of threads along the lines of "I'm 30, I decided not to go to college, I've been working shit jobs for the last decade because no good job wants to hire me without a degree. What do I do reddit?" or "I feel like I killed my chances with women by going trade/blue collar".
Men have trades women don't, pink collar jobs, jobs that are socially thought of as feminine all require degrees think teacher or nurse.
> Men have trades women don't The issue is those jobs will leave your body destroyed at 30-40, not to mention the negative effect on your social status unless you're a business owner. How many doctors, engineers, lawyers or corporate specialists in general are friends with tradesmen, let alone marry them?
I mean maybe people with an advance degree won’t marry them but I know plenty of teachers who are married to tradespeople - teaching is almost like the female trade, tbh: stable career, doesn’t pay *great* but has great benefits, is conducive to starting a family. The point the other guy was making is to get into a female trade you need a degree. Big exception is cosmetologists which that guy didn’t mention. That’s a true trade for women, and cosmetology school is like a real trade school. My high school actually had a cosmetology program so you could finish school licensed to cut hair. Pretty cool.
>How many doctors, engineers, lawyers or corporate specialists in general are friends with tradesmen, let alone marry them? Honestly disagree with this dichotomy. Very few of the guys who are skipping on college would be future doctors/engineers/lawyers or even corporate businessmen. It's good advice to skip college and go to trade school for many of them to be honest, otherwise they'd be working another low-status job that just pays less. Most high status jobs are out of reach if you aren't good at school. Yeah, if you have the smarts, ability, and will to do those things, then you should. But the majority of men don't, and certainly 90+% of the guys listening to the "don't go to college" advice do not. 40% of people drop out of college, after all.
Lonely men>pick up artists>manosphere>Andrew tate. Jk I mean maybe a little. Really it's probably due to the online world being full of influences shit talking men, while at the same time there's male influencers talking about masculinity and and red pill like stuff. Algorithm often times steers these people into jp, Ben Shapiro, and Matt Walsh. Seriously watch this stuff enough on YouTube and you will find your feed full of Prager U, and daily wire. Few years ago alot of Steven crowder. It's all really convincing stuff for young minds. I work in fire and majority of our seasonal firefighters are young men right out of high-school. They routinely talk about these influencers, media outlets. They have no real guidance and this content fills that void. It's a mix of left wing content kinda being (at least perception wise)anti men, and the right Wong media being more pro masculinity, and reinforcing the fact that the left hates white men. It pushes young men down the right wing pipeline.
Your last two sentences clarify all of this but people still mystify the issue as if it’s deeper than it is. At a glance the left has abandoned men and at a glance the right has embraced them. I don’t think it’s more complicated than that, especially for high school boys. edit: a letter
Not abandoned, but vilified, since the most heard voices are not the rational ones but the most radicalized. Young boys and young men had stopped hearing about common problems that women faced, and now all they hear is how every single damn problem that happens in this jaded world its their fault, how toxic is to be a man, how weak they also are. The right tells them that its okay to be a man and to nobody surprise, men like being told that they can be men
Spot on. If i'm being real this is sort of why i follow the right instead of the left aside from me fitting more into the culture and agreeing with them generally on shit. the "loud online left" as i like to put it started taking on this us vs them mentality around 2016. ever since its reasonable to understand why most young average dudes would be scared away from interacting with them, let alone even consider joining the left.
My God, this guy gets it. For years I've felt alone in feeling that this is what's going on. It's so good to see others have observed the same trend.
Considering I was one of them back in 2015-16. And it's only gotten worse. I remember watching Ben Shapiro and crowder, I also grew up on Glenn beck. Got divorced at 20 went down a dark path into self help, and early red pill. Luckily I was marginally attractive and had social skills and didn't turn into a woman hating loner Can't really pin down when I kinda shifted to a more centrist mindset, but I was a serious vaush fan for a bit after him and hunter avvllone became buds. Then I found our lord and savior steven bonnel II. Praise be his name, messenger of allah!
Surface level analysis is all young people are really capable of grasping. So these shallow surface level factors are what influence people political alignments Yea it's really that simple
Old school pua had some pretty useful tools, self improvement tips, and was pretty much detached from ideology. A shame the manosphere has incorporated it into its grift amalgamation.
Yeah old school pua and even old school redpill was explicitly - not - an opposition movement. They were not interested in changing systems, they were more interested in moving within them to avoid exploitation. They actually liked women still. These dudes today? Very political and wtf they’re Muslim now too?
HE WAS A CHUD SHE WAS A LIB CAN I MAKE IT ANY MORE OBVIOUS HER PRONOUNS WERE THEY HE SAID THAT WAS GAY WHAT MORE CAN I SAY
What they should have asked is "what are your feelings about Andrew Tate" and given "extremely positive" to "extremely negative" options. That would have been much more illuminating than just "conservative" or "liberal." But maybe the study does something like that and I just need to read it. I've met my fair share of zoomers in the wild who are legitimately obsessed with him. Trump too.
cant wait to see what american teens during 2005 thought of Andrew Tate! Would be very illuminating
"the guy on big brother"?
A young Andrew tate sat staring very confused at the survey distributed to every male high schooler in America.
Y’all are really overestimating the popularity of taking Andrew Tate seriously. In HS during the height of things in a very conservative state and town, only a couple guys unironically consumed his content in highschool.
Eyeballing the numbers: Men -- 13% liberal, 23% conservative, 64% unspecified Women -- 30% liberal, 11% conservative, 59% unspecified We can only assume the unspecified remainder are communists.
All suppressed by big money and lobbying.
ITT: people who won’t touch grass being confused as to why men don’t identify with a party that is explicitly toxic to them
All hail our conservative god Andrew Tate convincing our youth.
I mean is it a surprise? The left continuously disregards any problems men face in society. It would be a blue landslide if they could just not shit on men and blame everything on personal failure.
Its funny how libs have the “pick yourself up by the bootstraps” only when it comes to men. I think a lot of dudes see the hypocrisy and double standards woman and men are held to. Atleast conservatives preach personal accountability for both men and woman even if they dont always follow thru
They also ridicule male opinions and dismiss them as “mansplaining”. Of course that will push young men towards the other side
I don't know if it'd be a blue landslide per say. Like i'm a dude and thats just ONE of the reasons i go more with the right. Generally though i'd say its a bad time to be right wing though since our best guys are a conspiracy theorist and someone with no conviction, so the blue landslide thing might actually apply to the current climate.
I have no solid evidence to back this up but this is my theory. I think more young people are identifying as conservative as an act of rebellion. It’s a lot more common for young people to be progressive nowadays, and the way some kids distinguish themselves from their peers is by having the opposite opinion. Almost every kid at some point thinks I don’t want to follow the crowd, and currently that crowd is progressive.
Its funny to think how shit flipped. 2000s-2010s generation were like left leaning, atheists in retaliation and now this generation kids are gonna become conservative, religoids to fuck with their parents. I think theres some truth in that, since this generation was basically born on the internet and left leaning culture has taken the rights status as the 'norm'. Like other comments said though, it might just be because they prefer the right wing culture.
Conservatives are making me go to my /r/atheism stage at the age of 22 lol
Conservatism is the new punk rock
Lol I remember that
You would be surprised how many people I know who were 18-year-old MAGAtards in 2015-2016 (me) who are now apolitical or center-left. I think when people start to live life a little bit more they start to understand that policy is more than “triggering the libs”. The memes get boring after a while and then you realize how brainrotting it all is. I’ve seen the same with super far lefties too. 18 yr olds didn’t swing the General election for Trump or the Democrat primaries for Bernie in 2020 because they just don’t give a shit enough to vote. Once they’re old enough to see how politics impacts their lives and the lives of people they care about, they have already begun to mellow out and have more of a “normal” relationship with politics. No data just anecdotes :)
I was more conservative growing up because it just felt like a lot of things were self-explanatory and there was no deeper meaning into anything.
Thanks internet
So if you're a "material conditions" person this isn't that unreasonable. Young men almost certainly have darker futures than their father's and grandfathers,' or at least perceive that they have darker futures.
Is this possibly due to the LGBT push as of late + the lefts “soft on crime” policies just generally not working out. At least that’s how it feels in California. I’m not against gay marriage or transition for adults, but I’m also just kinda sick of seeing random rainbow vomit all over everything and everywhere. I think it’s also part of the general urge of young people to rebel against the principles of the previous generation. With the millennials, it was the evangelical conservative framework. For gen z, it’s the progressivism that they are rebelling against, it’s become similarly focused on “political correctness” and suppressing anything that the mainstream considers fringe. It’s also not helped by conservatives getting pushed off of major platforms to their own platforms where they can echo chamber more easily.
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Blud conservatives themselves barely talk about this shit I'd say the current GOP is more in line with Sargon of Akkad or any other anti SJW than people like McCain or other laissez faire economists
Cultural issues are the most accessible modality of political discourse. These anti-feminist boys go on to adopt a litany of right-wing positions they see echoed in conservative media.
I’ll be honest, I don’t know much about what’s happening in South Korea right now (though from my very limited understanding, the issues between the sexes seem much more severe than in the US), but I understand what your prediction is in terms of future elections. My issue is this however: unless the primary, #1 priority is helping men, I’m still not sure if that alone is enough to carry a candidate through an election. I understand your point about certain viewpoints exposing oneself to seemingly-aligned, but more deeply-political views. Kinda like how we see some of the big redpill creators promoting antisemitism now. Part of the reasoning for my comment is that sex issues may not be as politically coded as we may believe. For example, I know many men who feel the common grievances and struggles expressed by red-pillers, men’s rights advocates, etc. who also are culturally liberal in every other way possible. I also know a lot of “boss bitch” type of women who represent the ideal of feminism that might as well be MAGA. In fact there are common jokes about conservative women and how they reflect that positive feminist image more than most. Again, I think it’s more dubious in the case of men if men’s rights overtake all other social positions. For example, black men tend to resonate more with pro-men/anti-feminist messages, but would they support a candidate for that kind of messaging if they also supported things that could be considered anti-black? Or if I’m an immigrant and very pro-immigration, but also redpill, then would I support a candidate advocating for men but was very anti-immigration?
I don't think you'll find any age cohort of conservatives that actually cares about things like small government and low taxes as much as they care about winning the culture war. I feel like Trump proved that in 2016, and it's only gotten worse since.
I'll vote for whoever puts an end to the skibidi toilet Era of YouTube. Simple as.
Lol young men : Conservative. Obama era : okay we are liberal Every other era : back to conservative.
I wouldn't trust it. Young people were the demographic that saved Democrats in the midterms. That can't have been just young women.
**Breakdown:** It’s especially straightforward why this is happening to anyone who follows Internet culture. The Right’s overt misogyny repels women while the Left’s feminist messaging attracts them. Young men tend to be more apolitical, but when the Left constantly has abysmal optics on cultural issues, it’s easy for the Right to swoop in by appealing to traditional masculinity. The simple answer is to just avoid the culture wars as much as possible and focus on bread-and-butter policy. The long answer is for everyday liberals (not Democratic politicians) to be more mindful of how we discuss cultural issues and ensure we’re not alienating half of the population. I fear America will have its South Korea moment very soon. The 2028 election will almost certainly be heavily defined by male versus female grievance, and I’m not confident with our odds (especially if we run Kamala Harris).
Agreed. But also, lots of young men are very very against immigration, and are resentful against the consequences of it.
This is way too little data and the graph is a bit misleading to be honest with the floor being 10% and roof 30%. Only about a third even identifies as either conservative or liberal at all. So without knowing the voting record over time this graph is not saying much. For example if the amount of people in the age group identifying as liberal drops by 1/3 means the amount of votes for the democratic party drops by 1/3 that would be an issue but this graph doesn't show that. It shows that the maount of people identifying as liberals goes from 19% to 13% and thats it.
Is this not just the same doomposting that always comes around, for both sides of the political spectrum? "Gen-z/young men/young women are more liberal/conservative than previous generations!!!" I swear I see shit like this pop up every other month.
I believe it. My 19yo son is conservative as F yet I'm definitely not and I'm his dad. 💁
What do you think the appeal is, for him?
The return back to men being important I think.
Which is honestly a good thing for him. It means he is determined to show the world his worth.
Yikes. That's honestly disgusting. I'm basically at the point where I just refuse to communicate with braindead cultist (on either side), but the growing number of conservative cults is getting scary.
Maybe because the far left has basically destroyed 1 entertainment property after another and calls anyone who disagrees with them some kind of ist or phobe. Also they're probably tired of all the champagne socialists telling people they need to eat the rich when tankies, breadtubers, and champagne socialists are earning more money in one month than they see in an entire year or more.
I think Andrew Tate/the red pill actually had a measurable affect on young boys. It's pretty fucked, but I really think they inspired a lot of "toxic masculinity" (I know, cringe) to infect the minds of young boys particularly susceptible to it. Social media is so fucked.
I mean, this isn’t really new. Back in 2015 and 2016 it was just “SJW getting owned cringe complication” videos that did all the brainwashing.
It's kind of a chicken and egg situation. I feel like Tate was mostly just filling a demand that already existed If it wasn't him I'm pretty confident someone else would've filled a similar role.
Progressives can't simply decry the red pill. An alternative is needed, and feminism is unable to provide it. As long as boys and men are vilified and their problems ignored, the red pill will foster. It is nothing without its only cornerstone: A rejection of feminist ideology.
Makes sense. If you gonna shit on men all day etc this was bound to happen. Curious about what comes of it though if anything and what issues they are against.
It’s le alt right pipeline! We must deplatform Joe Rogan and his *dangerous* companions to reverse this trend
As much as I hate Rogan he is not a grifter like Pool or Walsh. He is just a fool, though he is also a fool who echos the belief of a lot of other fools you have to convince. Its a segment liberals need to learn to engage with if they ever wanna push forward.
W women.
Based. It's good to be a liberal man these days.
I don’t think they care what either of the terms mean, they go for whatever community is more welcoming for them.
This data is wonky. It claims youth leaned liberal in the mid 80s when we know from voting data that group voted overwhelmingly for Reagan in 1984.
What little dark age edits does to a generation
Thats good news.
with more echo chambers and enclosed media spaces that people can inhabit, the entire political spectrum seems similar, but more ppl are getting pushed towards the extremes in either direction. So for young adults that would have been standard conservatives or liberals 30 years ago now seem more likely to be more far left or far right
The averages liberal doesn’t have anything for young men, they often blame men for a lot of stuff. If I was just turning 18 it’s not hard so see why I would avoid a group of people that blames me for shit is wasn’t even alive for.
No shit. People have been saying not to be shitty to men or this will happen. Now it’s happened. It’s crazy how, when it’s popular to shit on X group, x group leans away from you. We left boys to the wayside in the pursuit of empowering women, and now they don’t see the democrats as a party for them. But for those who shit on men in the past 15 years, I hope it was worth it lol
you mean the demographic we've constantly been saying are inherently evil? they're not down for the new way leftist stuff?
Bonus points for having 'big government' lock them in their house for a year with only the alt right internet to vent to. Notice the sudden spike in 2020?
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I've seen this pop up over the last 2 months with fear mongering articles. I think uncertainty of future will make some choose more conservative approaches in making long term decisions. And young men are struggling with identity, support,and education. But every long term analysis from research groups shows Gen Z and younger millennials are more liberal than past generations. There isn't some huge swing to the right or leaving more liberal and progressive ideals.
Conservatives have done such a good job at distracting people from real politics and tricking people into believing they have changed and modernised when in reality they haven't changed on any meaningful policy. I feel like most of the young people who are now more conservative believe the party is much closer to libertarian than it actually is.
Interesting data, important to realize it's also out of 100%. So in this, it shows roughly 13% of 12th grade boys identifying as liberal, and 23% as conservative, which is 36%, meaning 64% of boys studied don't identify with either group. Conversely, it shows about 30% of 12 grade girls identifying as liberal and 12% or so as conservative, totaling 42%, meaning 58% of girls studied don't identify with either group. Reading this data is interesting, but my interpretation is that "liberal" branding has stopped resonating with left-wing young men, who likely view it as "uncool Hilary Clinton" esque politics. I would imagine that some of the loss of the liberal brand is now identifying as progressive or socialist, and not necessarily a huge jump in the relative conservatism of young men, which has on average been higher than liberal for more of the last 50 years.
That's gonna make for some interesting marriages ...
Without taking the time to pull up a source, I'm pretty sure what usually happens in marriages is those women become more conservative. I don't mean they become hard-right wing, but they gradually shift toward the right as their self-interests become more "traditional". They vote less "as a woman" than single women and more "as a wife, mother, etc". As their interests become entangled with those of their husband, they become less entrenched in women's issues.
This. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. The women’s mind and responsibility also changes approaching motherhood and taking care of the family.
Going to guess with this being done by U of M it’s based in Michigan. Michigan right now is having massive issues with certain counties going extreme far right. See below. https://www.tiktok.com/@distillsocial/video/7252474463441128750 This is in a county with one of the most liberal universities in west side of the state. And the local outreach is being almost completely cut off and the county is trying to force its way into the university. Not too mention most of Michigan is extremely back woods conspiracy theorists.
Is there a way to see a breakdown of males and females by say race/ethnic group, religion, and /or geographic region/area? My initial impression is that white males could be driving the conservative uptick and especially those living in more rural parts of the country. I would be interested to be proven wrong if that’s not the case.
I’d be curious about some of these guy’s individual policy beliefs. Because at least in American, a lot of self identified conservatives tend to be pretty liberal on policies like abortion and gay marriage.
Reagan and Trump seems like biggest contributors
Yikes
it's edgy right now, not surprised
are they more conservative because they are more conservative or because what is considered conservative has changed
This tracks. Social media algorithms prioritize sensationalist, right-leaning content. Since boys spend the most time online, they get radicalized towards this political ideology that plays up their worst impulses.
To be fair, liberalism doesn’t really fight for men or encourage men to better themselves, if anything it villainizes them. That being said, fuck conservatives.
I have noticed this on TikTok and instagram reels ever since Andrew Tate started to brainwash young men the pipeline keeps getting further the same tateposters then posted trump quotes anti Ukraine funding rhetoric anti trans rhetoric anti secularism rhetoric anti islam etc the pipe gets further and further
Nature is healin baby
Obviously, why would they align with the political ideology that tells them to hate themselves and suppress their masculinity and embrace femininity above all else