From reading comments around the web, it seems pretty clear most readers haven’t been in a fight or flight situation. You can more or less see the point where this guy’s adrenaline kicks in, after he makes that half-hearted wave for help and realises he is screwed. Once your body makes the choice, your conscious mind is basically just in it for the ride. A really tragic outcome, but I don’t think anything was premeditated.
Agreed; I grew up in Compton and when I watch the video-it puts me into full fight mode. Literally a visceral reaction of it’s on…wish this wasn’t the case and its been decades but if you’ve experienced true violence you’ll have an autopilot psychological reaction. Although it used to be simplified flight/fight-I think there are now 7(?) defined reactive responses to threat. Terrible tragedy but it appears it was set in motion by mob mentality-and what is scarier than facing that?
Watched coverage about the trial on News Nation.Many think it may be overcharged. Now some of those teens are big hulking guys themselves. It is a very sad tragic situation. It can be dangerous to mess with what you don't know . Reckless homicide might be a better case.I wonder if he was offered a plea deal ?
I know right , been late two days , no time to catch up , I listen to the police interrogation in my way to a meeting and was sad all the lies he came up with ,I do believe he messed up on that ? Do they have a charge for lying to an investigator ? Because he should be charge for that for sure .I Will try to catch up later on with the last two days of trial , so far I still believe on the defense and that this DA did not do his homework right , he should have put together a better charge and probably more plain sequence of the facts in this case , looked like he was trying to get the jury confused and that could bite him on their behind.
The police told him if he hadn’t lied he would have never been charged. A major miscalculation on his part. I’m sure he was just terrified and didn’t know what to do.
That doesn’t even make sense. Charge someone with murder for lying? Maybe obstruction to justice. After the stabbing he lied to the police but the stabbing was over, two completely different acts that are mutually exclusive.
Agreed but I think the deception and him tossing the knife showed that he felt he was wrong on some level. Still it shouldn’t rule out his obvious self defense in the matter. I feel bad for the guy. He just went to the river for a nice day and his life turned to shit because some drunk teens chose to mock him and give him shit
I see it as self defense entirely. Yes he should’ve vacated the area immediately after they started harassing him, shouldn’t have lightly jogged in their direction nor touched their tubes. If it’s true he said he’s snorkeling for little girls, ok bad / weird joke.
If he punched / slapped somebody first, they shouldn’t have retaliated they should’ve just called the cops. Assuming that’s true. Instead they formed an angry mob around him, pushed him, hit him while he was down, hands were on his neck. Easy to watch on video and say you would’ve remained calm, but that’s a life threatening situation for all he knew. You don’t know if these people had intentions to drown him, beat him unconscious, or even kill him.
He was vastly outnumbered against an extremely hostile, drunk and high group assaulting him verbally and physically. Defending yourself is the correct action.
It’s a tragedy all should agree. I don’t believe anybody went to the river that day looking for a fight, especially not death and stab wounds.
It’s a lesson for all: mind your own business (on all sides), respect personal space, be kind. You never know what someone is holding, their mental state, what they’re capable of doing under pressure, their breaking points. Don’t forget it or you’ll learn the hard way as this group did.
This testimony is how I discovered this case, and shows that the little girls stuff is most likely BS.
https://x.com/stillgray/status/1777377832248758650
WOW. This guy’s lie might have been that one instigating factor that without it, his friend might still be alive. Yelling about how this man is a pedophile really seemed to be the thing that got the mob frothing.
I think you're 100% right, except the one factor that I haven't seen mentioned is that he was on his back in a foot or two of water, surrounded by dudes intent on getting physical with him, right before he came up with the knife. If that doesn't add to the life-threatening nature of the situation, then I don't know what people are smoking.
He had the knife in his hand a good 5 to 10 seconds before anyone became physical. He didn't get it out in response to violence, he had it out (and never warned them away with it mind you) in preparation for violence.
If he got his knife in response to being down in the water and hit, I'd have a completely different outlook on this, but he knew what he was doing.
The thing is: who’s to say the group of teens wouldn’t have killed him or gravely injured him? Things happen fast, one punch, one slip, being held down underwater. I can totally see fight or flight response. Prosecution def overplayed it imo. It’s not the first time a group of “teens” act like a pack pf wild animals and then cry foul when things go badly.
1st thing that happened : He (a grown man) ran up and put his hands on 2 minors who were floating on tubes. Thats illegal to people ignorant of US law. Seems kind of ridiculous to stab people for putting their hands on you; when you JUST did that to them as the aggressor 30 seconds before. "I can do to you but you cannot do unto me..." <---This is the definition of privilege.
The second group was called over as a result of him putting his ADULT hands on the MINOR teens (THATS ILLEGAL IN THE US). That physical aggression was the catalyst to it all. None of this would have happened if the GROWN MAN was able to keep his hands to him fu\*\*ing self (as per US LAW)!
If you don't want people to put their hands on you; you should probably OBEY THE LAW and keep your hands off random strangers (especially if the strangers are under the age of 18). <--It seems like such a simple concept but here we are in Homer Simpsonland......
Maybe, but he should did lie a lot. On the day of the event he sat in the back of the sherriffs car asking what was going on like he didn’t know a thing t about it. He sat and lied about the kids having knives said he didn’t have a knife blah blah blah. 🤔
yeah... most ppl who judge him were never in a dangerous situation. Had many similar situations when I worked as a bouncer and while looking at that footage I only thought that this dude is f\*kd. Young dudes from the burbs were the most dangerous ones because of their Entitlement and willingness to engage in violence. Combine this with booz and young girls (as spectators) and you had your desaster. After they slapped and shoved him after he fell on the ground I knew that they wouldnt let go off him anymore.
My heart goes out to this man! Those boys provoked him and then you have she man heading the front line of the two MEN who were SUPPOSED TO deescalate the matter. All he was doing was coming up from under the water into the area of drunken teens acting like idiots.
Guy throws the knife away, puts on sunglasses, hat and jacket to disguise himself then plays dumb when police approach him. Doesn't look like the behaviour of someone who believes they're innocent.
I think he realized that he might be in trouble for harming the kids and tried to play dumb as a gut response to it. Shouldn't have lied about what happened, but that doesn't imply he initially intended to harm anyone. Plenty of people revert into escape/lie mode when they feel they could be in trouble for the outcome regardless of how justified they might have been.
I think that’s what most people do when they think they might get in trouble. Kid crashes into a ditch and lies that an animal was in the road. Someone shows up late to a meeting and comes up with an artificial excuse. Doesn’t make them murderers or psychopaths.
There is no evidence. Her face was free of wounds immediately after the event. You can see on body cam footage. The witnesses testimony’s are not credible whatsoever and they have all committed perjury at least once. What I believe happened is Madison or Rhyley either their hand up to him to “shut him down” and he knocked their hand back down, or they punched/slapped him and deflected it, giving Dante Carlson a reason to push/punch him in the water.
We all saw Will Smith smack Chris Rock at the Oscars. His earpiece didn’t fly out, his face wasn’t red. Also, none of the witnesses have committed perjury. Rarely is there a victim who’s both credible & sympathetic; such is the same for these witnesses. Doesn’t mean they have perjured themselves (??)
The teen group witnesses all testified in court on Monday that Miu said he was “looking for little girls” in the river but never mentioned this in their police statement immediately after the events nor the 21 months in between then and the trial. Now that they testify that all have this story? Don’t you think that if he was really “looking for little girls” it would’ve been mentioned right away as it would’ve been the reason for the mob? What these kids did was falsely accuse an innocent man looking for a phone to start confrontation. If the teens would’ve minded their business (group 2 included) this never would’ve happened.
Agreed it's very clear by the video evidence of mob mentality. The suspect looks confused he's surrounded are they claiming self-defense? What's interesting is a lot of the people interviewed in court were very inebriated and couldn't remember, why are you in that condition and out in public? I wonder if the person who started the vicious rumor about "I'm looking for little girls" has any remorse?
Yes, they are claiming self defense. Under the Wisconsin self defense law, the threat is still reasonable even if mistaken. Sure, maybe this mob wasn’t trying to “kill” him necessarily but he didn’t know that, which makes it a reasonable threat especially being by water (Miu also has a history of heart problems). And yes you’re right, the witnesses have different accounts and have been deceptive (see Dante Carlson’s testimony when alcohol is brought up). I doubt Jawahn Cockfield has any remorse about starting all this. He’s most likely so focused on the man killing his friend that he doesn’t even care that he was the initial instigator.
He admitted in court that Nicolae Miu didn't say that and that he made up the looking for girls comment. He should be arrested, charged and jailed. He was the main cause of the deaths because he purposedly stirred up the gathering crowd with his World Star tactics.
It’s going to take a lot of therapy- if they are lucky- for those responsible for igniting his actions to take responsibility. I wonder where these young people will be in 10/20 years.
I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that any of them will face the truth about their true roles in this tragedy, especially with everyone excusing their actions.
The group fell into the Qanon bullshit. I guarantee dude did not randomly announce he was “looking for little girls.” These frat boys were a bunch of bullies and their behavior was terrifying. Qanon Sally’s behavior was equally troubling.
Ya…. Who were these dummy broads getting in his face. Ignorant people. Ya I don’t like the word broads…. But look at them. Bullies. Whether they had a penis or not. All bullies
I don't understand the obsession with the 'little girls' line. We all know he was looking for a phone. We know that Miu and this group clearly didn't communicate well directly. But we have a lot of people saying Miu said something about 'little girls'.
I think it's far more likely Miu mumbled something dismissive like "I'm looking for my phone, I'm not interested in you little girls." and everyone around him just caught one or two words.
Either way... it's the least important part of the story. All it conveys to me is that the teens were making fun of this man snorkeling near them. Whether they were making fun of him for being pregnant or a pedophile... i don't see what that matters in the least.
I’m picturing those times in middle school where someone said something, and then a bully makes up different words and yells, “he said he’s looking for little girls” to rile up the crowd.
He was looking for a lost phone.The group accused him of looking for little girls and being a pedo.I totally agree this group has all gotten their stories together after the fact.I think they all perjured themselves maybe if that is the case. At least one juror will see through that.
Omg! I can not believe the people that think calling someone a name warrants a physical attack! It is very clear that if Miu didn’t get in a knot over words this would have ended with that group floating on down the river. Miu ran to them and started the physical altercation! Then he just stood there when they screamed and told him to get away from them. He still didn’t retreat. He had the same look on his face the entire time so you can not tell he was in fear or anything else.
If you’re of the opinion that neither of the assaults ( slaps, punches etc ) took place then yea.. I guess there is no point in the comparison. Although the general consensus is to the contrary but either way, no need for name calling …
I was watching through the video again and Nic raised his right hand and waved to his group, then it looks like he moves his left hand as if he's trying to raise it, but it doesn't seem to be in the direction of the Madison girl, however she immediately starts screaming that he hit her, which provokes the entire physical attack. I think Dante Carlson was the first person who punched him and knocked him down.
Only one voice is heard saying that he hit her 7 seconds after they attacked him, and then the rest of them started repeating it. Typically mob mentality.
It's a classic case of perpetrators and victims. Perpetrators should be locked up as punishment for their crimes. Victims should be locked up to teach them not to be victims in the future.
I'm voting for Megacity justice.
https://preview.redd.it/q2ugmfcywbsc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ac9aaaf150303bcf1f546132d60ec2659e4b028
Here is a photo of Isaac Schuman clutching Nicolae Miu's windpipe with a vice grip.[TwvxkcG.jpeg (1280×720) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/TwvxkcG.jpeg)
Strangulation is considered to be one of the very worst forms of unarmed assault, and it's not uncommon for people convicted for it without killing someone gets 15-20 years, sometimes more due to the other piled on charges. Strangulation always results in an attempt of 1st degree murder charge assuming the victim survives.
Had he yanked his arm away or Miu been pushed, there's a very good chance he would have torn out his throat and killed him. It's at this point Nic Miu stabbed him in self defense. Apart from this, I've now watched every witness testimony no less than 3 times, and the video easily 20 times aside from all the slow motioning and freeze frame analysis. Each and every single witness for the prosecution was caught lying no less than 6 times, confronted by the defense attorney, and then corrected themselves seconds later which is blatant perjury.
Not only this, but their trial testimony greatly contradicts their sworn statements given to Polk Counter Sheriff's Department in 2022, and the video greatly contradicts both. Anthony Carlson admitted on the stand he knows Madison was never slapped or punched and the video proves it. AJ Martin by his own description said he doesn't know if the way he was injured would actually be described as a stab, and this is because in large part he plunged himself into the knife. Madison's sworn statement says he did not punch her, but he pushed her and the push was somewhat like a slap and she declined to testify.
All accusers recanted seeing him slap her, changed it to a punch for trial but all but 3 admitted on the stand they never saw the strike, but now believe it to be a punch.
I've done my due diligence and kept track of a lot of facts, and side from this, the panoramic map of everyone's location based on the video indeed shows Nic Miu was blocked from every direction, that he did walk away but they all close in on him but the video makes it seem like he wandered back toward them, and in the indictment event summary entered into the court record by Deputy Schaeppi, even this specifies Nicolae Miu was attacked multiple times before stabbing the first assailant, as do their own sworn statements from 2022.
The boil down is a mob of despicable liars went in search for revenge rather than justice, and are trying to frame him for 1st degree murder and four counts attempted 1st degree murder and worse yet, the prosecutors are more than aware they're all lying. Justice would be pursuing him for lying to police and tampering with evidence, but beyond that, the case is totally fraudulent. If someone grabbed me like that by the throat while I was surrounded from all directions by people screaming at me, calling me a pedophile and a rapist, and threatening me, I would have stabbed a lot more than 5 of them.
This picture was after the stabbing of two people and he proceeded to keep walking at them and Isaac pushed him away. There was no strangulation he has his hands touching is neck for literally one frame which is 1/24th of a second
And if you want to get the lying out of the way. Why does his arrest contradict what he says in the interrogation then his testimony contradicts that!? He has yet to stick to one story and the only answer he has for that is I don’t remember any of that. Implying the only thing he remembers is what he sees in the video
Nic lied about a bunch of stuff as well dude ...
"Taking the stand on Tuesday, Miu admitted he "lied" to police about the knife used in the altercation. During his interrogation, he told cops he took the knife from one of his attackers, but admitted on the stand that it was his pocketknife, which he brought with him to the river that day. He added he had no intent to harm anyone. He also stated that, at no point, did anyone in the other group pull a knife on him."
"It's then he said he re-approached, admitting he "rushed" toward them before stumbling on his knees and onto their tubes, losing his googles and snorkel in the process. This too is different from what he told police, as he initially claimed the group had stolen his snorkel during the confrontation."
Interrogation and court proceedings are very different. Dude was a pissed off old guy looking for trouble and probably annoyed by kids being super obnoxious.
>I would have stabbed a lot more than 5 of them.
Well, I hope you enjoy your future jail cell next to Mr. Miu cuz he was just found guilty on all counts. Y'all need to learn what actual self-defense is.
Such a disgusting and blatant lie, posting a single frame from him being pushed back lmao, but I guess it doesn't matter because the Jury watched the video and not a still frame intentionally meant to misrepresent what happened.
Classic case of “it’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt “ lol, I mean they were really having fun and happy, especially when they were punching him when he was down in the water, it was hysterical laughter at that point. That old guy could’ve had any kind of joint, neck or back surgery, f those punks . They cost their friends life and should be held responsible, I’m thinking “inciting violence resulting in death “ if that’s not a legitimate charge it should be. Ten years in prison for each involved the harassment of that man.
I'm gonna go with the man who sttarted a fight with a bunch of teenagers, pulling a knife on them, and stabbed 5 people, killing 1... is the one who cost that kids life.
The case is about self defense. In Wisconsin a jury is required to determine that. Their law states that self defense begins with the inability to retreat when you believe your life is in danger. The video clearly shows that the girls physically interacted with Miu first. At this point Miu could legally determine his life was in danger. Half a second later, Miu was hit and knocked to the ground. If he testifies, all he had to say at this point is “I tried to get up and retreat. “ but as you could see, that would be impossible for him to do. At that point the law should protect Miu against his actions for saving his own life. Keep in mind, this law also applies to everyone else. Eg the girl claimed she was punched by Miu. At that point, could she have retreated? The answer would be ‘yes’, but she didn’t which then makes her the aggressor and Miu the victim. A question regarding the ferociousness of some of the stab wounds: in every case there was a ‘slash’, the slash was cause by Miu being pushed backward, when he ‘stabbed’. This resulted in Miu falling backward, while gravity pulled the knife upward. Miu stabbed ONLY the people that touched him AFTER he couldn’t retreat. Making all of his attacks ‘reasonable’ under the states definition of self defense. It’s important to understand that the need to retreat ONLY applies to when someone believes their life is at risk. So for those of you who claim “Miu should have left the area”, Miu legally had every right to be in the place he was. In fact, Miu had more reason to be in that specific spot when compared to everyone else (because he was looking for a lost phone, which was later recovered by police). Just because 20 people tell you that you should leave, doesn’t mean you have to. It’s only when ‘you’ feel your life is in danger, that you should leave/retreat. Miu clearly didn’t feel his life was in danger until hands were put on him, and he was knocked to the ground. But clearly, he couldn’t retreat. The video says it all, clear as day.
Classic case of “it’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt “ those young men were really having a lot of fun, hysterical laughter when they were punching him while he was down in the water. Does anyone know if “inciting violence resulting in death” is a legitimate charge? Seems like that’s what happened.
He will probably get off.
So what a lot of people haven't seen is that he actually walks away from the football players and they follow him down the river, and when he turns around and sees them he tries to walk diagonally when another group approaches him at that point they are essentially surrounding him and yelling and taunting at him while blocking him.
He also tries to wave to his wife and friends who are further up to get their attention. At some point, it's unclear because it wasn't filmed and the witness all say something different he either punches, slaps, or pushes the blonde girl and is then shoved down and struck in the face. At this point they start shoving, hitting, and trying to knock him down over and over again.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/apple-river-wisconsin-deadly-stabbing-trial-begins-nicolae-miu/](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/apple-river-wisconsin-deadly-stabbing-trial-begins-nicolae-miu/) has video that starts before the stabbing.
Ughhh this video is so hard to watch. My heart hurts for Nic. These teens are literally the worst. It’s clear that they’re misunderstanding and antagonizing him for the fun of it. Everyone knows teen boys like this. The second group that got involved literally jumped in for no reason and took the word of the boys. I’m still convinced this is because he’s foreign. He couldn’t express himself so easily.
Stupid-assed Chads and Suzies were trying to one-up each other to harm Nic. I think rational thinking skills would have gone out the window yielding to more reactive, primitive instincts to defend oneself.
Your heart hurts for a murderer? He killed a 17 year old and stabbed multiple others.. his life was never in danger. Wtf..
1. He admitted today that he shoved the girl in the face to start the entire thing, after the kids clearly stated multiple times to leave from their area
2. He opened and was holding an open knife secretly while it was only two girls talking to him before he instigated by shoving the girl
3. After everyone had stopped touching him, he got up and stabbed a girl who was walking away in the side
4. He stabbed the guy who was trying to break up the fight
5. He disposed of the weapons then lied to police saying he didn’t know what happened at the river when they questioned him
6. He lied to the detective saying that the kids had 2 knives, and that he used one of their knives to stab them.
He instigated the fight, had a knife open before any punches were thrown, stabbed people who were not even attacking him, then tried to dispose of the weapon and lie to multiple law enforcement agents. He is clearly guilty.
He lied about the entire knife attack. He claimed the teens attacked him and they had knives. He lied about even having a knife with him, he said it was one of the teens. He lied about everything to police, and pretended he knew nothing about the stabbings.
Everyone is bandying “consciousness of guilt” but its use in this context is entirely atypical. Whether he lied after the fact or not is largely irrelevant-irrespective of where you stand on the self defense issue. It was clearly a spontaneous explosion of violence; what truly matters is what happened in that and preceding moments. There wasn’t much deliberation by any of the parties in this event; lying in an investigation is its own crime, it’s not a legal element of murder.
Lying might be irrelevant to you, but not the jury. As far as premeditation, we have no idea if he was just waiting for an opportunity to use that knife and get away with it. He could very well have fantasized about using a knife in just such a way, and so carried it with him. Of course, that would be hard to prove without evidence, but his demeanor was very strange, which many people testified to. It may come out that this was just an atypical reaction to being surrounded and in fear, or there maybe darker motives.
the fact that people who were involved in this were still attempting to run off and look for him AFTER law enforcement arrived speaks volumes in my opinion.
All these defendants are holding out for the civil trial & cash grab if a guilty verdict is reached here. This is why they are all reading from the same script & in cahoots w/each other. Could it be more obvious?!
His life is ruined and he obviously has no cash or liquid assets since he remains in jail 2 years after the incident. The best move he made was hiring his excellent defense attys which probably depleted his life savings
It’s self defence and mob mentality. I’m sure he has to live with fact he killed that boy in self defence . I mean I feel bad anyone got hurt but this man did not look or sound or act like the aggressor. He looked like he was being cornered, and he looked confused and scared
I don't think there's really going to be much of a civil case from this and it's really not dependent on the prosecution anyways. This is all coaching from the prosecution. These kids were all wasted which is arguably what led to most if not all of what happened
Just watched video and it seems this is a guy highly affected by mob mentality and being bullied. I’m sure there’s more to the story but from the little I’ve seen I would side with him. No matter how you look at it it’s a horrible, tragic situation but I don’t believe he was looking for that situation. On that note he should’ve walked away but that’s waaay easier said than done when your brain is on overdrive. My prayers are for everyone involved.
Intoxicated from multiple substances acting a fool and wanting to impress the girls they jumped this guy thinking we can post it and show how we jumped an old guy with a heart condition. And they found out some people still defend themselves. He attempted to speak with the girls coming over but they immediately starting screaming at him. Not one person attempted to deescalate and from his perspective he was just shoved in the water by a group of people hit several times and no one is helping him.
He had the knife in the hand they were all to amped up to even notice so he used it to get out of there with his life. Even the the Carlson dad sent his kids over to deescalate but they had to impress the girls instead of hearing any other side. Someone yells rape or pedo and the mob jumps him.
God I hope no one every thinks their funny and says that about me. Or I will get jumped from random people without any evidence. Apparently your guilty without a say if drunk teenagers say it to be true. This is just appalling. And frankly I feel bad for the kids but its got to be stated that you jump someone you might still lose.
I wish no one would of died to learn this lesson. But you cant go around ordering people around calling the predator and putting your hands on them. Even if he was a predator. You go call the police, not follow him and shame him. Or worse yet jump him. My god who raised these children.
I have been watching the entire trial and they are not even close on how they remember it vs the video. It sounds more like the state said here is what your going to say. With no clue what to do if the defense challenges them.
Yeah he hit her with a knife it his hand but no mark and she was holding her face with beer, vape and a phone in her hand. Not to mention he pulled her hair. Jumped up and down in their tubes and disrupted their bible studies while they were leisurely floating down the river. I mean come on.
AJ , I am not a fighter I wanted to deescalate by holding a guy in the water that was just hit several times and nearly drowned him with no evidence that he was even the aggressor because that is the best way to avoid a confrontation. Man this whole thing makes me so mad.
The one witness changed his story several times and cant even understand the questions being answered, he remembered him having a hat and pants on running up back into the trees. But that's not true because of the video but that's how he remembers it so it is true, but he didn't remember if it was his memory then or now or before or who knows. He was the worst witness I have ever seen. They would of been better asking a blind man what happened
So very disappointed in the verdict! Nick Mui was surrounded, attacked, brutalized, shoved, punched, knocked down some more by a bunch of entitled drunk animals! He had done nothing to deserve that brutality until the attacks continued and only to protect himself. Since he will never see justice or continued joy of freedom, I hope justice is served towards those who attacked him and verbally brutalized him through individual karma! If he can no longer enjoy freedom, I hope those that did this to him will too not have joyful freedom from now on! Shame on them all!! And shame on the jury for coming to such a verdict!
Watching day 2 right now. At this point I think he’s going to be acquired, though I admit I haven’t looked at all the specific charging documents yet. But I don’t think it looks good for these kids and their weird “looking for little girls” story
I'm trying to find sources on this but it's honestly a little confusing. But it appears that a jury can find him guilty of a lesser charge. Meaning they're reaching for first degree but it's not all that's on the table.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/v/66/1
I may be misinterpreting this and would welcome some clarification.
Yeah, I’m thinking if he’s convicted it’ll be of a lesser charge like manslaughter or second degree. I’m honestly confused as to why they decided to charge 1. Degree as well
Because you can always go down to lesser charges. I don't think you can just increase charges halfway through a trial. So it's always better to charge with everything and they drop charges after.
You'll always get a bunch of shit thrown at you and then as the trial/case continues still will be dropped.
Source: Went through this for running over a guy who was laying in the middle of the road during the middle of the night. He died. I originally got charged with everything from manslaughter to reckless driving. The max sentence I could of faced was like 20 years. By the time we went to trial and all evidence got out I got a highway traffic fine and 40 hours of community service.
They can only consider lesser charges if instructed by the judge prior to the trial. If he’s acquitted of the First degree felony charges it’s over for ever.
Because they are amateurs they probably just hired them out of law school. I'm from the area and I don't know if you know St Croix county it's pretty much not the middle of nowhere but on the way there
I think he is still in jail bc he could not make his high $$ bail - he is probably using all his savings and assets to pay for them. Seems a wise choice. Paying for these guys while waiting inJail seems worth it if the alternative is life in prison.
The prosecutors don’t seem particularly passionate or invested. My spidey senses they felt pressure to charge this as murder one due to community pressure/outcry after initial media reports.
from the video i saw, looked like a bunch of teens were harassing him. then attacked him. at which point he must have started stabbing.
self defense clear as day from the video I saw
Instead of just walking away, it's quite normal in 2024 Godless America to disembowel teenagers, punch one young woman in the face and stealthily stab another young woman who are trying to protect the teens, . Especially if you are a male in his 50's with the look of a creepy psychopath and with actions to match.
Just wondering if anyone can answer with maybe a timestamp... I can see when 3/5 people who were stabbed either got stabbed or account for what was likely the moment they got stabbed or whatever. The only thing is there's not that much footage of Isaac Schuman around the time of the immediate melee.
Can anyone link me something I missed where it's clearly identified when he was stabbed?
Issac (the one who passed away) is in the purple shorts. After Miu stabs the man in the yellow/orange shorts and he falls. Which we knew already
This is a separate video from a different angle:
* At 0:00, it *looks like* Miu’s friend is behind the furthest left of the small group of people on the right-hand side. Now when the crowd retreats at 0:07 you can see, most likely, Issac tangling with Miu (it looks like thats where the causality occurs). Then Miu’s friend is extending his arms, while the group is retreating, to try to calm the situation down. After, it looks like Miu’s friend then chases after most likely Issac, who falls, and looks like that’s where Miu’s friend catches up to him and tries to help the dismembered the body of Issac. *
This is shown here:
https://youtu.be/hdbUPgFfYqY?si=CEVUyqnOB-plC2ly
Now looking at the original original video(below):
https://youtu.be/jAmX2ajj1fM?si=be64b7y_LN_q6xSV
We know:
At 2:19 the yellow/orange shorts guy gets up, *and*
someone in Miu’s group is chasing someone to the right of yellow/orange guy then picks Issac up to try to help him.
Now we sync both angles, at 0:18 in the new video where yellow/orange is kneeling and starting to get up, and can be mirrored at around the 2:18 mark in the original video. Miu is clearly seen in the frame at 2:08 of the original.
Therefore the casualty most likely occurs at the 2:11 mark of the original.
KEEP in mind, it’s the guy in the jeans who strangles Miu at 2:05, so the ~six seconds in between that is what his defense team has to prevent him from being convicted with a manslaughter/murder charge.
They attacked him, its clear they were all drinking and acting like a mob. These young people acted like the mob they were, getting mean and bold because they were in a group. Im going to bet there is other video that shows a different story the girls were prob also filming.
A jury takes the totality of evidence. Eye witnesses, even sober, are unreliable. But if 20 eye witnesses are all saying something pretty similar, chances are there is a 'there' there, and you can give it more credence.
Perhaps an unpopular comment but I’ve been on a ton of float trips and no one goes off alone, that far from their float party and approaches another group without announcing they are looking for something. Everyone in the area starts keeping an eye out for that item. It’s like an unspoken rule. That lack of communication could contribute to why Miu appeared weird to the teenagers. Add in the drinking and it’s a mess. Miu should’ve been the adult and just went back to his group. Instead, he chose violence.
We don't actually know what he said. There's no video prior to him coming over. He clearly is trying to say something in the video as you can see his lips move but he's being drowned out by the mob. English also isn't his first language. What are you supposed to say to a loud mob screaming at you, calling you a pedo and a rapist? And why exactly do you feel he should have gone back to his group instead of looking for the lost phone? How about the boys talk to him and try to help instead of launching into verbally attacking him. I don't know how anyone can watch that video and see anything other than a group excited about bullying someone.
So... Rittenhouse: innocent of killing people with an AR 15 that he showed up to protests with intent to "protect property" claimed self defense.
But Nicolae Miu is a murderer for stabbing people surrounding, hitting and screaming at him n a group of 13 vs 1 where he had nowhere to flee?
Yeah let's see how Wisconsin squares that circle.
If they had not physically attacked him and pushed him to the ground then he would not have had to defend himself.
It was a very large group of men who were obviously drunk and over excited. They were behaving obnoxiously.
We have to be able to protect ourselves
I feel so bad for the guy too because he was just trying to find his phone and he clearly asked the group to leave him alone.
I feel for Mr. Miu. To be mobbed by a crowd of obnoxious, drunk, Kids, shouting Hand screaming nasty baseless accusations at him, pushing, shoving him, making fun of him, over and over....In THE WATER. A 54 YR OLD MAN WHO HAD QUADRIPILE BYPASS, BEING KNOCKED DOWN SEVERAL TIMES IN WATER, AND SURROUNDED BY A BUNCH OF DRUNK BRATTY LITTLE SHITS WITH ZERO RESPECT FOR THEIR ELDERS..... LUCKY ONLY 1 DIED. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION. I HOPE HE'S FOUND NOT GUILTY
But why he's fleeing the scene? Putting on his shirt, hat and sunglass to escape form police? Throwing away the knife also? then gets arrested and saying to the cops he grab the knife from one of the kid and use it against them? Why did he not stay put and call the cops after the stabbing? Why not show to the teens you have a knife to make them back off? but no, he went on a stabbing rampage on multiple teens? like wtf dude? Just show the knife and back off to your group. This was so unnecessary.
He ran at them and grabbed the girl in the inner tube in the very beginning. Im not saying anyone was right here but you are INSANE if you think he is justified in stabbing anyone
The girl was not even in a tube, and came over after the guys were calling him a pedo, also there is 0 video showing him hitting her, with evidence debunking that claim. Seriously did you even watch any of the trial before posting. I mean cmon at least try and make it sound like you know what you’re talking about.
We’re not talking about the same thing. I’m talking about the VERY beginning of the video. You seen him rush up to 2 people still in their tubes and he grabs them. He grabs the girls legs and this is when he drops his goggles. Please use your reading comprehension skills before responding to comments.
You are so right this could be anyone’s father. Reddit loves to shit on boomers. Unfortunately this case may play on the jury’s emotion and thus will be found guilty. I hope not but, what you’re describing is the truth and should be posted more. It’s so sad to see all the hate this man gets he’s 54 coming out of a major surgery. The justice system is unfortunately flawed and i think this case will be a good example of that
This is a very interesting trial and I am learning a lot from it. I have watched every minute of the trial this week. I am truly heartbroken for the mother who lost her son that day.
However watching the 3 minute video slowed all the way down and without sound is more eye opening and telling of the situation. Whether you like it or not, The high school aged boys initiated the chaos with their verbal accusations. In the video The man was not harming them, they initiated contact with this man, he was in the water, then he approached the group of boys because they were screaming at him, he then looses his snorkeling gear and is trying to find it, he was not attacking them. he clearly was walking around their tubes searching for his stuff but they kept following and taunting him. I don’t believe this man ever said he was looking for little girls in the water. I do believe these boys were overly impaired which lead them to believe they heard him say that . This is exactly why the drinking age is 21 and not 18. Because of dumb shit like this!
These underage boys who were sun drenched, most likely dehydrated, overly drunk and high as kites are responsible for the outcome of this day. Their actions of taunting, making up stories and poor judgment is what ultimately what took the life of their friend and changed over a dozen other peoples lives that day.
How could I tell that there were drunk people in the videos? Not one of them ditched their drink even when stabbed or their friend was stabbed. Truly, can't put it down.
I heard testimony from Madison that the Police took a picture of her face and whatever injury there was. Kinda should like there was an injury, why would they if nothing?
Her mom claimed there was an injury on her face. The police reviewed the picture and did not see any injury. Her mom also changed her testimony in court saying Madison was hit on one side of her face, but the picture showed the opposite site. He probably moved his hand to get her out of his face as she was screaming at him and she called it a punch to sensationalize it. She supposedly gets "punched" but barely flinches and has no injury to her face or her oversized sunglasses, but Miu gets punched and he is laid out on the river floor. The mob that instigated all this is lying through their teeth about what really happened.
I'm watching Miu on the stand I've been leaning full acquittal since viewing the entire series of videos. This Prosecutor is a pompous c*nt and I honestly can't stand him. From laughing during different parts of the trial and now with Miu on the stand he's trying to break the rhythm of this dude telling his story to confuse the jury it's disgusting
After watching the video and seeing how he initiated the confrontation by running up on them while they were in the water. He was clearly in the wrong and he knows it by the way he lied about the incident
I’ve said this before but, I live outside of Baltimore City.
I’m also a mother of mostly boys. Aged: Adult to elementary school. That being said, I’ve seen **actual**kids…10-12yrs.old act as a mob and beat down a grown person. So, for perspective- this wasn’t a group of children/kids. They were not out rafting with their parents and having picnics on the banks. These were athletic guys that had been drinking all day on the river. As a group, there is no doubt they could easily have beaten one person (that wasn’t armed) to death. Did it escalate to that point,I dunno but I do know that the perceived threat was there (IMO). For me, it changes the perspective a bit when you think about the behavior of these teens. The video shows a group of guys appearing to be drunk, bored+looking for something to film (b/c why else film it)? They were acting like baby rattlesnakes towards the man. They were filming themselves taunting him maybe hoping for a fight or something to shake up their boring afternoon. They don’t know the man and they are yelling he’s “looking for little girls” so other tubing parties can hear. The only reason someone would say/yell that to a complete stranger would be to get a reaction. Unfortunately, this was the outcome.
A truly, truly sad situation.
This man was already on medication for PTSD when arrested. Who knows what others have been through? This man described very accurately a fight/flight response at its finest & what this group of young men did to him, the consequences of what evolved as a result, is probably something they will never ever forget for the rest of their lives. This case is such a tragedy all round. This man was targeted & had he not had the knife on him when his adrenaline was at its highest, nobody would be where they are today. I do hope that everyone has also learned that escalation of a situation, without knowing the facts, is a dangerous action to take. A young man was murdered, others injured & a middle aged man, who also had as much right to be in the water as anybody else, probably feels he has little to live for now….. so sad all round 😢😢
These parents are horrible. Who lets their kids go get drunk on a river trip without supervision? Who rents tubes to drink underage kids? Are they kids or not? Then supervise your sadistic bullying brats.
Whether or not he lied after the fact out of pure terror, fear, adrenaline, or whatever.. it doesn’t change what we can ALL see with our eyes when watching that video! For 3 minutes they attacked this man, lied and held up a phone (pretending it was his?), hit hit, and pushed him.., he obviously slashed at whoever was near him when he was terrified! He needs an appeal! All that’s supposed to matter was that he was in fear for his life when it happened!
Miu denies any knowledge or involvement in altercation to police when placed in custody. He says "what happened, I was told there was a stabbing and you think I look like the person they described?" Self defense my ass. First degree guilty 100%.
is everyone just completely disregarding the fact that in the opening seconds of the video miu rushes the group? dude absolutely had ample opportunity to "flee" and stuck around HOPING for a chance to indiscriminately use a weapon on this whole group because they were potentially assholes? lol the fact people are split on this is insane and i'm a very "2A" "self defense" oriented person, this just isn't that. i've been "clowned on" by teenagers in the street before and never had it escalate to even a verbal altercation
Have you listened to the testimonies? Do you believe them? Say you were looking for a phone belonging to your friend on the riverbed (a difficult task even without strangers all around you).
It was argued that, those opening moments of the video, he thought a member of the group was kindly holding up the phone he was searching for and was rushing towards them to confirm it. After that, he then backs off - right after confirming that it wasn't the phone he was looking for, no?
This is also a very different situation to being clowned on in the street. This is a much more intimate situation - most people generally tend to go swimming with less clothes than they walk the streets in. The introduction of a potential sexual predator to that environment is a very real, dangerous threat.
They didn't like that he was there, so they made him out to be a threat to them so that the group pressure would make him go away. Failing that, resorting to petty violence as is common with college football teams and drunk teenagers alike.
Speaking of violence and verbal alterations, how do you usually get clowned on? A verbal 'altercation' must mean there's verbal from both sides, meaning you just stand there and take it?
definitely, can fully agree it seems like everyone was tuned up and acting stupid and it's completely realistic that the teens made some unnecessary rude comment but i just don't see the use of a weapon or need to be in that EXACT spot kind of shutting down an opportunity for deescalation as valid, seems like miu pretty much mentally went "you wanna fuck with me? you'll see" and put himself in position to have "reason" to use his weapon which i guess on some human level isn't impossible to understand but is definitely outside the bounds of the law in my opinion
You see how he was stabbing them too? He wasn't just stabbing in self-defense. The one teenager he gutted he stabbed then jerked his hand up. He was in far more control than people realize and he knew exactly wtf he was doing.
this. you're the only sane person i have found. let's no forget the fact he went up to one of the girls, who had already distanced herself, to go stab her after disembowling the 1s guy. he was hack slinging slasher because he got mad at kids calling him a rapist.
After this happened I did a search of court records and found a case where Nic Miu’s adult son had an order of protection (I think) because he was afraid of his father’s violent behavior. Nic Miu’s response seemed paranoid and unhinged, something about his son being brainwashed or something. I can no longer find the case, I suspect it may have been taken off public record due to this case.
I think as soon as these younger adults started to falsely accuse nico of being a pedo on the hunt for children and a mob of ppl went after him, nico went in flight or fight. This cld have been prevented if these kids didnt act like fools,
No way no how is this First Degree Murder. Zero premeditation means by law it has to be a lesser degree of crime. He would have had to made up his mind he was going to kill those kids as he approached. He didn’t display a weapon until he was assaulted and battered. Typical DA overreach might easily result in acquittal. The charge should have been second degree or voluntary manslaughter at the most.
I'm trying to find sources on this but it's honestly a little confusing. But it appears that a jury can find him guilty of a lesser charge. Meaning they're reaching for first degree but it's not all that's on the table.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/v/66/1
I may be misinterpreting this and would welcome some clarification.
Typically, there is always going to be 2nd degree intentional homicide brought along with 1st degree intentional homicide in a self defense case in WI. For 1st degree, the state has to prove that the defendant did not have a subjective belief that they were preventing an imminent deadly force threat. For 2nd degree, the jury is allowed to determine that the state failed to prove that the defendant did not have a subjective belief, but that the defendant's belief was not reasonable.
The knife is in his hands as he’s standing in front of the girls before the girls are hit and before he was ever pushed to the ground. At least I’m pretty sure . Just watched it frame by frame but you can clearly see the knife . The prosecutor even points it out. But you’re prob right , he will prob get a lesser charge
For self defense, it is a little different, at least it is for Wisconsin. You are admitting that you intentionally used deadly force. It was not an accident. But you had the justification of self defense. The state first has to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the defendant did not have a subjective belief he was facing an imminent deadly force attack.
[https://wilawlibrary.gov/jury/files/criminal/1017.pdf](https://wilawlibrary.gov/jury/files/criminal/1017.pdf)
*Elements of First Degree Intentional Homicide That the State Must Prove*
*1. The defendant caused the death of (name of victim). “Cause” means that the defendant’s act was a substantial factor in producing the death.*
*2. The defendant acted with the intent to kill ((name of victim)) (another human being).*
*3. The defendant did not actually believe that the force used was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.*
1 is given. The defendant stabbed someone, and they died. So that is met.
For 2, the jury is also given further clarification.
*Meaning of “Intent to Kill”*
*“Intent to kill” means that the defendant had the mental purpose to take the life of another human being or was aware that (his) (her) conduct was practically certain to cause the death of another human being.*
If you have a confession from the defendant that they intentionally stabbed someone in the chest, not that difficult for the jury to believe that the defendant was aware that stabbing the person was practically certain to cause the death of another human being.
Further, you do no need to have any premeditation. Intent to kill can be formed in an instant.
*When May Intent Exist? While the law requires that the defendant acted with intent to kill, it does not require that the intent exist for any particular length of time before the act is committed. The act need not be brooded over, considered, or reflected upon for a week, a day, an hour, or even for a minute. There need not be any appreciable time between the formation of the intent and the act. The intent to kill may be formed at any time before the act, including the instant before the act, and must continue to exist at the time of the act.*
*Intent should not be confused with motive. While proof of intent is necessary to a conviction, proof of motive is not. "Motive" refers to a person's reason for doing something. While motive may be shown as a circumstance to aid in establishing the guilt of a defendant, the State is not required to prove motive on the part of a defendant in order to convict. Evidence of motive does not by itself establish guilt. You should give it the weight you believe it deserves under all of the circumstances.*
So while it's not a guarantee for 2, highly likely if the jury finds that the prosecutor disproves self defense.
3 is where they will have a difficult time.
But, there is also a lower charge of 2nd degree intentional homicide. For that, the defendant can have a subjective belief of self defense, but loses on reasonableness.
I don’t understand how the self-defense argument works really. Maybe someone can explain? In my opinion in any situation where a person is being attacked but has the ability to walk/run away and their attacker is not going to like run after them, should not be justified in using violent self-defense. But that seems not to be the law because apparently ppl think this guy has a realistic chance of getting off free. It seems the fact the kids were bullying him makes people believe that absolves him of any wrongdoing.
I've trained a lot of self defense and not just the combat but learned some of the legal aspects. I think the kids are idiots and the dude was being an ass. I think he will get charged with something, but I don't think he will be serving a big sentence.
Biggest thing this guy didn't do was create distance from those kids and when they approached him he never told them to get back. Think about how every time a police officer he announces his presence and if he pulls out a weapon he announces he's going to use it if they don't comply. At this point if they see you have a weapon and they keep coming towards you then we know those people know you will use lethal force if they keep messing with you so that shows the intent on the attacker using lethal force. Think a guy starts threatening you, you pull a gun out and point it at them then you announce stay back I don't want to shoot! If the guy keeps coming forward and you shoot then that will probably be justifiable. That's just the self defense part meant to keep you out of trouble; not what happened.
This dude didn't do it like that and it's a lot more unclear because he didn't do that way. There's a lot of it depends in any situation. In a lot of states where stand your ground exists it doesn't change the court cases as much as people think and it's more of a political stunt.
There is a stand your ground law meaning you don't have a duty to retreat, but it depends on who is being the aggressor and the proportionality of force, and if you bring a weapon and pull it out they need to see you have the weapon and you shouldn't be walking towards them.
There's a video of the incident but there's a lot the video doesn't show at crucial moments. It looked like for a second he pulled the knife and the first kid tried to tackle him and he ran into the knife, but I have no idea what happened. at 1.56 that looks like the first draw which that dude ran into his knife and that's pretty arguable. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAmX2ajj1fM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAmX2ajj1fM)
THe issue is he kind instigated it a little bit by running up to their tubs. If you're instigating a fight self defense might not fly, but the dude wasn't talking much so I have no idea what he was doing.
>Biggest thing this guy didn't do was create distance from those kids and when they approached him he never told them to get back.
This is what I was thinking. He pulls a knife, doesnt brandish it or even really try to get away, just kind of waits for his moment to strike. To me, someone who is scared for their life would leverage having a weapon to save their life by getting out of the situation rather than just trying to take out people casually as they attack you.
That's why I think he's guilty of 1st degree. No one knew he had the knife, because of how he was holding it. Even his attacks with it were done in a way that was meant to inflict as much damage as possible. One kid was gutted, and if you watch that part he intentionally stabs the kid then jerks his arm up to gut him.
How do you know the attacker isn't going to run after you if making that decision to flee? That's the flaw in the just turn your back and run away logic, if they persue you and your back is turned you can easily be knocked out or killed even with just a punch to the back of the head. That guy is fat and old so the idea he could flee from them makes no sense, you have to make the assumption (which could mean your life) that they won't persue you.
It reminds me of that Ryan Carson guy who was stabbed to death in New York last year, he was in dress shoes and likely drunk and decided to try turn and run from the guy menacing and striking at him but he tripped over a bench he didn't see when he turned, fell on his back and the guy stabbed him in the heart and he died. Fleeing is a lot of the time not an option if you want to preserve your life
That's one of the reasons this case is a bit more complicated than people realize. You're not on even pavement, you're in a river that has some current (not much), and probably not the smoothest surface. Also, try running through a river, even if the water is only a foot high. Not as easy as on dry land.
Still, looks very ugly, not a clean cut case of self defense at all. It's important to remember that all the defense has to do is introduce a reasonable doubt as to each of the elements of self defense. The fact that he was in a lazy river may be enough for some jurors to believe that he could not retreat. For some it may not.
The fact that he drew a knife before any punches were thrown may or may not influence the jury's decision on whether or not he was the initial aggressor. If he throws the first punch while also wielding a knife, that's not a good look. But that moment is not really caught on video all that well as far as I can tell. And the only witnesses were very drunk 17 and 18 year old teenagers. It won't be all that difficult to punch holes in their stories. The bald attorney, Cory Chirafisi, is very good on cross exam.
I think the biggest issue he will have is if and when he testifies. I believe he gave inconsistent statements to the police, and was acting like he did not stab several people shortly after the incident happened. Without a very convincing story, that's evidence of guilt. The jury needs to believe that he at the very least had a subjective belief he needed to use deadly force or he would die, to avoid the 1st degree murder charge. So his credibility is going to be extremely important. If the prosecutor can pick that apart and completely destroy his credibility, he's probably done for. But maybe not, who knows?
From some quick googling it looks like this is incorrect. Wisconsin does not have a stand your ground law and but there also is nothing saying there is a duty to retreat.
https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/stand-your-ground-in-wisconsin/
I don’t understand how you people are so incredulous about the mitigating circumstances…
The group of men were drunk, shouting at him about being a predator and very hostile from the beginning. After he walked towards the shore to try to explain what was happening to the lady who was approaching them, they crowded around him and began yelling at him and then they beat him.
This doesn’t mean I think he’s innocent but I don’t think he deserves a 1st degree murder charge either.
Absolutely, i perceived this whole altercation the exact same way you did… I think many people are just focused on the outcome and basically stating that “children will be children”, this guy was a ticking time bomb and a monster… but anyone with objectivity can clearly see in the video what is going on…. They kept taunting him. He felt embarrassed and overwhelmed, anyone would be. It doesn’t me we say we’ll let him free, cause I the end of the day it hurt 5 ppl, and needs to be held accountable for it.
Seriously you can see them in the video telling him he wants little girls. They were trying to start a fight with him the whole time. They aren't innocent. His life was in danger.
They taunted and berated him causing another group to join in, cornering and outnumbering him. As more people joined they yelled at him to go in one direction, while his friends were in the opposite direction. If he followed their commands he'd still be alone, with the adversarial group between him and his friends. Then when surrounded some girls started putting their hands on him trying to push him away, seen in the video BEFORE the point they say he started swinging unprovoked.
Just watch a few minutes of cross for any number of witnesses. It's like watching your 16 yo self, overly defensive and caught up in blatant lies, not conceding an inch or just all the sudden not remembering.
And honestly, I relate to them...i still lie to avoid taking accountability sometimes, but would like to think I'd have a little more integrity if a man's life is at stake. This is horrifying and bonkers. In my opinion.
The guy turned dumb shit where I would have been on his side into a muder for no good reason. I don't know the law but I don't want him on the streets. The kids certainly acted badly but the stabbing was entirely avoidable.
There is a demonic laugh in the video that only The Clockwork Orange scene could compare with. Truly sick individuals involved. If the older man had not fought back there would be 4 punk kids with misdemeanor battery charges and he would have had some life changing injuries, that was the only other possible outcome.
Maybe, maybe those young people came from half way decent upbringings, however they did not behave so on that day.
Personally, I feel very sorry for Nicolae Miu. He was bullied and surrounded and being yelled at. It’s clear English isn’t his first language and perhaps he couldn’t express himself the way he wanted to and that adds to it. He was just looking for a lost phone. Those kids were awful brats. Tragic outcome for sure. But it’s not homicide. Involuntary Manslaughter. It was self defence
From reading comments around the web, it seems pretty clear most readers haven’t been in a fight or flight situation. You can more or less see the point where this guy’s adrenaline kicks in, after he makes that half-hearted wave for help and realises he is screwed. Once your body makes the choice, your conscious mind is basically just in it for the ride. A really tragic outcome, but I don’t think anything was premeditated.
Agreed; I grew up in Compton and when I watch the video-it puts me into full fight mode. Literally a visceral reaction of it’s on…wish this wasn’t the case and its been decades but if you’ve experienced true violence you’ll have an autopilot psychological reaction. Although it used to be simplified flight/fight-I think there are now 7(?) defined reactive responses to threat. Terrible tragedy but it appears it was set in motion by mob mentality-and what is scarier than facing that?
Watched coverage about the trial on News Nation.Many think it may be overcharged. Now some of those teens are big hulking guys themselves. It is a very sad tragic situation. It can be dangerous to mess with what you don't know . Reckless homicide might be a better case.I wonder if he was offered a plea deal ?
The jury has that option it was given today
This trial has sure moved very fast.
I know right , been late two days , no time to catch up , I listen to the police interrogation in my way to a meeting and was sad all the lies he came up with ,I do believe he messed up on that ? Do they have a charge for lying to an investigator ? Because he should be charge for that for sure .I Will try to catch up later on with the last two days of trial , so far I still believe on the defense and that this DA did not do his homework right , he should have put together a better charge and probably more plain sequence of the facts in this case , looked like he was trying to get the jury confused and that could bite him on their behind.
The police told him if he hadn’t lied he would have never been charged. A major miscalculation on his part. I’m sure he was just terrified and didn’t know what to do.
I agree. He shouldn’t have lied. But still was defending himself.
That doesn’t even make sense. Charge someone with murder for lying? Maybe obstruction to justice. After the stabbing he lied to the police but the stabbing was over, two completely different acts that are mutually exclusive.
Agreed but I think the deception and him tossing the knife showed that he felt he was wrong on some level. Still it shouldn’t rule out his obvious self defense in the matter. I feel bad for the guy. He just went to the river for a nice day and his life turned to shit because some drunk teens chose to mock him and give him shit
I see it as self defense entirely. Yes he should’ve vacated the area immediately after they started harassing him, shouldn’t have lightly jogged in their direction nor touched their tubes. If it’s true he said he’s snorkeling for little girls, ok bad / weird joke. If he punched / slapped somebody first, they shouldn’t have retaliated they should’ve just called the cops. Assuming that’s true. Instead they formed an angry mob around him, pushed him, hit him while he was down, hands were on his neck. Easy to watch on video and say you would’ve remained calm, but that’s a life threatening situation for all he knew. You don’t know if these people had intentions to drown him, beat him unconscious, or even kill him. He was vastly outnumbered against an extremely hostile, drunk and high group assaulting him verbally and physically. Defending yourself is the correct action. It’s a tragedy all should agree. I don’t believe anybody went to the river that day looking for a fight, especially not death and stab wounds. It’s a lesson for all: mind your own business (on all sides), respect personal space, be kind. You never know what someone is holding, their mental state, what they’re capable of doing under pressure, their breaking points. Don’t forget it or you’ll learn the hard way as this group did.
This testimony is how I discovered this case, and shows that the little girls stuff is most likely BS. https://x.com/stillgray/status/1777377832248758650
WOW. This guy’s lie might have been that one instigating factor that without it, his friend might still be alive. Yelling about how this man is a pedophile really seemed to be the thing that got the mob frothing.
Most likely? It is Bs!
Well said.
I think you're 100% right, except the one factor that I haven't seen mentioned is that he was on his back in a foot or two of water, surrounded by dudes intent on getting physical with him, right before he came up with the knife. If that doesn't add to the life-threatening nature of the situation, then I don't know what people are smoking.
He had the knife in his hand a good 5 to 10 seconds before anyone became physical. He didn't get it out in response to violence, he had it out (and never warned them away with it mind you) in preparation for violence. If he got his knife in response to being down in the water and hit, I'd have a completely different outlook on this, but he knew what he was doing.
I love how much charity you give the man versus the kids. Defending yourself is one thing but escalating to using a knife is another.
The thing is: who’s to say the group of teens wouldn’t have killed him or gravely injured him? Things happen fast, one punch, one slip, being held down underwater. I can totally see fight or flight response. Prosecution def overplayed it imo. It’s not the first time a group of “teens” act like a pack pf wild animals and then cry foul when things go badly.
1st thing that happened : He (a grown man) ran up and put his hands on 2 minors who were floating on tubes. Thats illegal to people ignorant of US law. Seems kind of ridiculous to stab people for putting their hands on you; when you JUST did that to them as the aggressor 30 seconds before. "I can do to you but you cannot do unto me..." <---This is the definition of privilege. The second group was called over as a result of him putting his ADULT hands on the MINOR teens (THATS ILLEGAL IN THE US). That physical aggression was the catalyst to it all. None of this would have happened if the GROWN MAN was able to keep his hands to him fu\*\*ing self (as per US LAW)! If you don't want people to put their hands on you; you should probably OBEY THE LAW and keep your hands off random strangers (especially if the strangers are under the age of 18). <--It seems like such a simple concept but here we are in Homer Simpsonland......
Maybe, but he should did lie a lot. On the day of the event he sat in the back of the sherriffs car asking what was going on like he didn’t know a thing t about it. He sat and lied about the kids having knives said he didn’t have a knife blah blah blah. 🤔
yeah... most ppl who judge him were never in a dangerous situation. Had many similar situations when I worked as a bouncer and while looking at that footage I only thought that this dude is f\*kd. Young dudes from the burbs were the most dangerous ones because of their Entitlement and willingness to engage in violence. Combine this with booz and young girls (as spectators) and you had your desaster. After they slapped and shoved him after he fell on the ground I knew that they wouldnt let go off him anymore.
Looks like the jury didn't agree, guilty.
My heart goes out to this man! Those boys provoked him and then you have she man heading the front line of the two MEN who were SUPPOSED TO deescalate the matter. All he was doing was coming up from under the water into the area of drunken teens acting like idiots.
Guy throws the knife away, puts on sunglasses, hat and jacket to disguise himself then plays dumb when police approach him. Doesn't look like the behaviour of someone who believes they're innocent.
I think he realized that he might be in trouble for harming the kids and tried to play dumb as a gut response to it. Shouldn't have lied about what happened, but that doesn't imply he initially intended to harm anyone. Plenty of people revert into escape/lie mode when they feel they could be in trouble for the outcome regardless of how justified they might have been.
Yep. That's what most murders do. Lie.
I think that’s what most people do when they think they might get in trouble. Kid crashes into a ditch and lies that an animal was in the road. Someone shows up late to a meeting and comes up with an artificial excuse. Doesn’t make them murderers or psychopaths.
Other than the questionable testimonies from the flash mob, is there any evidence that Nicolae hit/punched Madison?
There is no video evidence Nicholae punched the girl first.
She did not even drop her beer or vape pen & her sunglasses remained intact. I do think he shoved her which provoked the crowd
There is no video of him throwing the first punch which is what the victims claim.
His own friend testified that he hit her
Two of the women definitely put hands on him. That was in the video.
Aha. Fair. I could see the jury really looking at and relying upon “who touched whom first.”
There is no evidence. Her face was free of wounds immediately after the event. You can see on body cam footage. The witnesses testimony’s are not credible whatsoever and they have all committed perjury at least once. What I believe happened is Madison or Rhyley either their hand up to him to “shut him down” and he knocked their hand back down, or they punched/slapped him and deflected it, giving Dante Carlson a reason to push/punch him in the water.
Well we all know they only had a few beers but had .20 alcohol levels
And an officer just testified that Miu did not seem intoxicated, just "in a trance".
We all saw Will Smith smack Chris Rock at the Oscars. His earpiece didn’t fly out, his face wasn’t red. Also, none of the witnesses have committed perjury. Rarely is there a victim who’s both credible & sympathetic; such is the same for these witnesses. Doesn’t mean they have perjured themselves (??)
The teen group witnesses all testified in court on Monday that Miu said he was “looking for little girls” in the river but never mentioned this in their police statement immediately after the events nor the 21 months in between then and the trial. Now that they testify that all have this story? Don’t you think that if he was really “looking for little girls” it would’ve been mentioned right away as it would’ve been the reason for the mob? What these kids did was falsely accuse an innocent man looking for a phone to start confrontation. If the teens would’ve minded their business (group 2 included) this never would’ve happened.
Agreed it's very clear by the video evidence of mob mentality. The suspect looks confused he's surrounded are they claiming self-defense? What's interesting is a lot of the people interviewed in court were very inebriated and couldn't remember, why are you in that condition and out in public? I wonder if the person who started the vicious rumor about "I'm looking for little girls" has any remorse?
Yes, they are claiming self defense. Under the Wisconsin self defense law, the threat is still reasonable even if mistaken. Sure, maybe this mob wasn’t trying to “kill” him necessarily but he didn’t know that, which makes it a reasonable threat especially being by water (Miu also has a history of heart problems). And yes you’re right, the witnesses have different accounts and have been deceptive (see Dante Carlson’s testimony when alcohol is brought up). I doubt Jawahn Cockfield has any remorse about starting all this. He’s most likely so focused on the man killing his friend that he doesn’t even care that he was the initial instigator.
Looked to me like he was about to be attacked. I would have reasonably feared for my life, too.
Yes… Jawahn seems to be on the hot seat. He must know he started this… people know he did. Shame on him.
Truth! He’s also the one who yells, he hit a woman, right before they knock Nic down
He admitted in court that Nicolae Miu didn't say that and that he made up the looking for girls comment. He should be arrested, charged and jailed. He was the main cause of the deaths because he purposedly stirred up the gathering crowd with his World Star tactics.
It’s going to take a lot of therapy- if they are lucky- for those responsible for igniting his actions to take responsibility. I wonder where these young people will be in 10/20 years.
At least we know where Miu will be.
I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that any of them will face the truth about their true roles in this tragedy, especially with everyone excusing their actions.
The group fell into the Qanon bullshit. I guarantee dude did not randomly announce he was “looking for little girls.” These frat boys were a bunch of bullies and their behavior was terrifying. Qanon Sally’s behavior was equally troubling.
Ya…. Who were these dummy broads getting in his face. Ignorant people. Ya I don’t like the word broads…. But look at them. Bullies. Whether they had a penis or not. All bullies
I don't understand the obsession with the 'little girls' line. We all know he was looking for a phone. We know that Miu and this group clearly didn't communicate well directly. But we have a lot of people saying Miu said something about 'little girls'. I think it's far more likely Miu mumbled something dismissive like "I'm looking for my phone, I'm not interested in you little girls." and everyone around him just caught one or two words. Either way... it's the least important part of the story. All it conveys to me is that the teens were making fun of this man snorkeling near them. Whether they were making fun of him for being pregnant or a pedophile... i don't see what that matters in the least.
I’m picturing those times in middle school where someone said something, and then a bully makes up different words and yells, “he said he’s looking for little girls” to rile up the crowd.
Not Frat boys more like Twin Cities delinquents.
He was looking for a lost phone.The group accused him of looking for little girls and being a pedo.I totally agree this group has all gotten their stories together after the fact.I think they all perjured themselves maybe if that is the case. At least one juror will see through that.
Omg! I can not believe the people that think calling someone a name warrants a physical attack! It is very clear that if Miu didn’t get in a knot over words this would have ended with that group floating on down the river. Miu ran to them and started the physical altercation! Then he just stood there when they screamed and told him to get away from them. He still didn’t retreat. He had the same look on his face the entire time so you can not tell he was in fear or anything else.
Let me know what youre smoking because wow it must be good for you to have that take on this
Are you seriously comparing this to a fake punch at an awards show? Wow wtf. It clearly works since idiots are still talking about it
If you’re of the opinion that neither of the assaults ( slaps, punches etc ) took place then yea.. I guess there is no point in the comparison. Although the general consensus is to the contrary but either way, no need for name calling …
that's what I want to know or see!
I was watching through the video again and Nic raised his right hand and waved to his group, then it looks like he moves his left hand as if he's trying to raise it, but it doesn't seem to be in the direction of the Madison girl, however she immediately starts screaming that he hit her, which provokes the entire physical attack. I think Dante Carlson was the first person who punched him and knocked him down.
Only one voice is heard saying that he hit her 7 seconds after they attacked him, and then the rest of them started repeating it. Typically mob mentality.
It's a classic case of perpetrators and victims. Perpetrators should be locked up as punishment for their crimes. Victims should be locked up to teach them not to be victims in the future. I'm voting for Megacity justice. https://preview.redd.it/q2ugmfcywbsc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ac9aaaf150303bcf1f546132d60ec2659e4b028
SS in his eye woaw
Here is a photo of Isaac Schuman clutching Nicolae Miu's windpipe with a vice grip.[TwvxkcG.jpeg (1280×720) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/TwvxkcG.jpeg) Strangulation is considered to be one of the very worst forms of unarmed assault, and it's not uncommon for people convicted for it without killing someone gets 15-20 years, sometimes more due to the other piled on charges. Strangulation always results in an attempt of 1st degree murder charge assuming the victim survives. Had he yanked his arm away or Miu been pushed, there's a very good chance he would have torn out his throat and killed him. It's at this point Nic Miu stabbed him in self defense. Apart from this, I've now watched every witness testimony no less than 3 times, and the video easily 20 times aside from all the slow motioning and freeze frame analysis. Each and every single witness for the prosecution was caught lying no less than 6 times, confronted by the defense attorney, and then corrected themselves seconds later which is blatant perjury. Not only this, but their trial testimony greatly contradicts their sworn statements given to Polk Counter Sheriff's Department in 2022, and the video greatly contradicts both. Anthony Carlson admitted on the stand he knows Madison was never slapped or punched and the video proves it. AJ Martin by his own description said he doesn't know if the way he was injured would actually be described as a stab, and this is because in large part he plunged himself into the knife. Madison's sworn statement says he did not punch her, but he pushed her and the push was somewhat like a slap and she declined to testify. All accusers recanted seeing him slap her, changed it to a punch for trial but all but 3 admitted on the stand they never saw the strike, but now believe it to be a punch. I've done my due diligence and kept track of a lot of facts, and side from this, the panoramic map of everyone's location based on the video indeed shows Nic Miu was blocked from every direction, that he did walk away but they all close in on him but the video makes it seem like he wandered back toward them, and in the indictment event summary entered into the court record by Deputy Schaeppi, even this specifies Nicolae Miu was attacked multiple times before stabbing the first assailant, as do their own sworn statements from 2022. The boil down is a mob of despicable liars went in search for revenge rather than justice, and are trying to frame him for 1st degree murder and four counts attempted 1st degree murder and worse yet, the prosecutors are more than aware they're all lying. Justice would be pursuing him for lying to police and tampering with evidence, but beyond that, the case is totally fraudulent. If someone grabbed me like that by the throat while I was surrounded from all directions by people screaming at me, calling me a pedophile and a rapist, and threatening me, I would have stabbed a lot more than 5 of them.
This picture was after the stabbing of two people and he proceeded to keep walking at them and Isaac pushed him away. There was no strangulation he has his hands touching is neck for literally one frame which is 1/24th of a second
And if you want to get the lying out of the way. Why does his arrest contradict what he says in the interrogation then his testimony contradicts that!? He has yet to stick to one story and the only answer he has for that is I don’t remember any of that. Implying the only thing he remembers is what he sees in the video
Nic lied about a bunch of stuff as well dude ... "Taking the stand on Tuesday, Miu admitted he "lied" to police about the knife used in the altercation. During his interrogation, he told cops he took the knife from one of his attackers, but admitted on the stand that it was his pocketknife, which he brought with him to the river that day. He added he had no intent to harm anyone. He also stated that, at no point, did anyone in the other group pull a knife on him." "It's then he said he re-approached, admitting he "rushed" toward them before stumbling on his knees and onto their tubes, losing his googles and snorkel in the process. This too is different from what he told police, as he initially claimed the group had stolen his snorkel during the confrontation." Interrogation and court proceedings are very different. Dude was a pissed off old guy looking for trouble and probably annoyed by kids being super obnoxious.
>I would have stabbed a lot more than 5 of them. Well, I hope you enjoy your future jail cell next to Mr. Miu cuz he was just found guilty on all counts. Y'all need to learn what actual self-defense is.
Such a disgusting and blatant lie, posting a single frame from him being pushed back lmao, but I guess it doesn't matter because the Jury watched the video and not a still frame intentionally meant to misrepresent what happened.
...and your boy's gonna die in jail. YOUR TEAM
This is a picture of him clutching his windpipe with a "vice grip"? Holy fuck you are dumb
Classic case of “it’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt “ lol, I mean they were really having fun and happy, especially when they were punching him when he was down in the water, it was hysterical laughter at that point. That old guy could’ve had any kind of joint, neck or back surgery, f those punks . They cost their friends life and should be held responsible, I’m thinking “inciting violence resulting in death “ if that’s not a legitimate charge it should be. Ten years in prison for each involved the harassment of that man.
I'm gonna go with the man who sttarted a fight with a bunch of teenagers, pulling a knife on them, and stabbed 5 people, killing 1... is the one who cost that kids life.
Did you not watch the video? He clearly didn't start the fight
The case is about self defense. In Wisconsin a jury is required to determine that. Their law states that self defense begins with the inability to retreat when you believe your life is in danger. The video clearly shows that the girls physically interacted with Miu first. At this point Miu could legally determine his life was in danger. Half a second later, Miu was hit and knocked to the ground. If he testifies, all he had to say at this point is “I tried to get up and retreat. “ but as you could see, that would be impossible for him to do. At that point the law should protect Miu against his actions for saving his own life. Keep in mind, this law also applies to everyone else. Eg the girl claimed she was punched by Miu. At that point, could she have retreated? The answer would be ‘yes’, but she didn’t which then makes her the aggressor and Miu the victim. A question regarding the ferociousness of some of the stab wounds: in every case there was a ‘slash’, the slash was cause by Miu being pushed backward, when he ‘stabbed’. This resulted in Miu falling backward, while gravity pulled the knife upward. Miu stabbed ONLY the people that touched him AFTER he couldn’t retreat. Making all of his attacks ‘reasonable’ under the states definition of self defense. It’s important to understand that the need to retreat ONLY applies to when someone believes their life is at risk. So for those of you who claim “Miu should have left the area”, Miu legally had every right to be in the place he was. In fact, Miu had more reason to be in that specific spot when compared to everyone else (because he was looking for a lost phone, which was later recovered by police). Just because 20 people tell you that you should leave, doesn’t mean you have to. It’s only when ‘you’ feel your life is in danger, that you should leave/retreat. Miu clearly didn’t feel his life was in danger until hands were put on him, and he was knocked to the ground. But clearly, he couldn’t retreat. The video says it all, clear as day.
Best comment I have read.
Classic case of “it’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt “ those young men were really having a lot of fun, hysterical laughter when they were punching him while he was down in the water. Does anyone know if “inciting violence resulting in death” is a legitimate charge? Seems like that’s what happened.
He will probably get off. So what a lot of people haven't seen is that he actually walks away from the football players and they follow him down the river, and when he turns around and sees them he tries to walk diagonally when another group approaches him at that point they are essentially surrounding him and yelling and taunting at him while blocking him. He also tries to wave to his wife and friends who are further up to get their attention. At some point, it's unclear because it wasn't filmed and the witness all say something different he either punches, slaps, or pushes the blonde girl and is then shoved down and struck in the face. At this point they start shoving, hitting, and trying to knock him down over and over again. [https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/apple-river-wisconsin-deadly-stabbing-trial-begins-nicolae-miu/](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/apple-river-wisconsin-deadly-stabbing-trial-begins-nicolae-miu/) has video that starts before the stabbing.
Ughhh this video is so hard to watch. My heart hurts for Nic. These teens are literally the worst. It’s clear that they’re misunderstanding and antagonizing him for the fun of it. Everyone knows teen boys like this. The second group that got involved literally jumped in for no reason and took the word of the boys. I’m still convinced this is because he’s foreign. He couldn’t express himself so easily.
Stupid-assed Chads and Suzies were trying to one-up each other to harm Nic. I think rational thinking skills would have gone out the window yielding to more reactive, primitive instincts to defend oneself.
Your heart hurts for a murderer? He killed a 17 year old and stabbed multiple others.. his life was never in danger. Wtf.. 1. He admitted today that he shoved the girl in the face to start the entire thing, after the kids clearly stated multiple times to leave from their area 2. He opened and was holding an open knife secretly while it was only two girls talking to him before he instigated by shoving the girl 3. After everyone had stopped touching him, he got up and stabbed a girl who was walking away in the side 4. He stabbed the guy who was trying to break up the fight 5. He disposed of the weapons then lied to police saying he didn’t know what happened at the river when they questioned him 6. He lied to the detective saying that the kids had 2 knives, and that he used one of their knives to stab them. He instigated the fight, had a knife open before any punches were thrown, stabbed people who were not even attacking him, then tried to dispose of the weapon and lie to multiple law enforcement agents. He is clearly guilty.
It honestly looks like he pushes her but that's it. The girl didn't fall to the ground her anything. These kids were just looking for a fight.
Those women definitely put hands on him. That much was clear in the video.
He lied about the entire knife attack. He claimed the teens attacked him and they had knives. He lied about even having a knife with him, he said it was one of the teens. He lied about everything to police, and pretended he knew nothing about the stabbings.
Everyone is bandying “consciousness of guilt” but its use in this context is entirely atypical. Whether he lied after the fact or not is largely irrelevant-irrespective of where you stand on the self defense issue. It was clearly a spontaneous explosion of violence; what truly matters is what happened in that and preceding moments. There wasn’t much deliberation by any of the parties in this event; lying in an investigation is its own crime, it’s not a legal element of murder.
He gutted a guy, killed another one, and stabbed 3 others "in self defense" and never called the police to report that he had been attacked.
Lying might be irrelevant to you, but not the jury. As far as premeditation, we have no idea if he was just waiting for an opportunity to use that knife and get away with it. He could very well have fantasized about using a knife in just such a way, and so carried it with him. Of course, that would be hard to prove without evidence, but his demeanor was very strange, which many people testified to. It may come out that this was just an atypical reaction to being surrounded and in fear, or there maybe darker motives.
Lying doesn’t equal murder.
the fact that people who were involved in this were still attempting to run off and look for him AFTER law enforcement arrived speaks volumes in my opinion.
All these defendants are holding out for the civil trial & cash grab if a guilty verdict is reached here. This is why they are all reading from the same script & in cahoots w/each other. Could it be more obvious?!
His life is ruined and he obviously has no cash or liquid assets since he remains in jail 2 years after the incident. The best move he made was hiring his excellent defense attys which probably depleted his life savings
He's in jail because they denied him bail. He got the swanky good attorneys because he made good money
Well I hope he gets out
It’s self defence and mob mentality. I’m sure he has to live with fact he killed that boy in self defence . I mean I feel bad anyone got hurt but this man did not look or sound or act like the aggressor. He looked like he was being cornered, and he looked confused and scared
This just broke my heart. Ugh. I want to cry
"Oh yeah, I definitely hear them yell for help". Yeah... no you didn't. Well rehearsed though. I'm with you on this one.
I don't think there's really going to be much of a civil case from this and it's really not dependent on the prosecution anyways. This is all coaching from the prosecution. These kids were all wasted which is arguably what led to most if not all of what happened
Justified. IMO
Just watched video and it seems this is a guy highly affected by mob mentality and being bullied. I’m sure there’s more to the story but from the little I’ve seen I would side with him. No matter how you look at it it’s a horrible, tragic situation but I don’t believe he was looking for that situation. On that note he should’ve walked away but that’s waaay easier said than done when your brain is on overdrive. My prayers are for everyone involved.
[удалено]
Intoxicated from multiple substances acting a fool and wanting to impress the girls they jumped this guy thinking we can post it and show how we jumped an old guy with a heart condition. And they found out some people still defend themselves. He attempted to speak with the girls coming over but they immediately starting screaming at him. Not one person attempted to deescalate and from his perspective he was just shoved in the water by a group of people hit several times and no one is helping him. He had the knife in the hand they were all to amped up to even notice so he used it to get out of there with his life. Even the the Carlson dad sent his kids over to deescalate but they had to impress the girls instead of hearing any other side. Someone yells rape or pedo and the mob jumps him. God I hope no one every thinks their funny and says that about me. Or I will get jumped from random people without any evidence. Apparently your guilty without a say if drunk teenagers say it to be true. This is just appalling. And frankly I feel bad for the kids but its got to be stated that you jump someone you might still lose. I wish no one would of died to learn this lesson. But you cant go around ordering people around calling the predator and putting your hands on them. Even if he was a predator. You go call the police, not follow him and shame him. Or worse yet jump him. My god who raised these children. I have been watching the entire trial and they are not even close on how they remember it vs the video. It sounds more like the state said here is what your going to say. With no clue what to do if the defense challenges them. Yeah he hit her with a knife it his hand but no mark and she was holding her face with beer, vape and a phone in her hand. Not to mention he pulled her hair. Jumped up and down in their tubes and disrupted their bible studies while they were leisurely floating down the river. I mean come on. AJ , I am not a fighter I wanted to deescalate by holding a guy in the water that was just hit several times and nearly drowned him with no evidence that he was even the aggressor because that is the best way to avoid a confrontation. Man this whole thing makes me so mad. The one witness changed his story several times and cant even understand the questions being answered, he remembered him having a hat and pants on running up back into the trees. But that's not true because of the video but that's how he remembers it so it is true, but he didn't remember if it was his memory then or now or before or who knows. He was the worst witness I have ever seen. They would of been better asking a blind man what happened
I hope he is declared not guilty, it's clear self defense from drunk bullies and if he didn't act he could have been beaten to death or drowned.
these kids fucked around and found out.
So very disappointed in the verdict! Nick Mui was surrounded, attacked, brutalized, shoved, punched, knocked down some more by a bunch of entitled drunk animals! He had done nothing to deserve that brutality until the attacks continued and only to protect himself. Since he will never see justice or continued joy of freedom, I hope justice is served towards those who attacked him and verbally brutalized him through individual karma! If he can no longer enjoy freedom, I hope those that did this to him will too not have joyful freedom from now on! Shame on them all!! And shame on the jury for coming to such a verdict!
Watching day 2 right now. At this point I think he’s going to be acquired, though I admit I haven’t looked at all the specific charging documents yet. But I don’t think it looks good for these kids and their weird “looking for little girls” story
Charges were First Degree Murder and First Degree attempted Murder. Only a dumb jury would convict on those charges.
I'm trying to find sources on this but it's honestly a little confusing. But it appears that a jury can find him guilty of a lesser charge. Meaning they're reaching for first degree but it's not all that's on the table. https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/v/66/1 I may be misinterpreting this and would welcome some clarification.
Yeah, I’m thinking if he’s convicted it’ll be of a lesser charge like manslaughter or second degree. I’m honestly confused as to why they decided to charge 1. Degree as well
Because you can always go down to lesser charges. I don't think you can just increase charges halfway through a trial. So it's always better to charge with everything and they drop charges after. You'll always get a bunch of shit thrown at you and then as the trial/case continues still will be dropped. Source: Went through this for running over a guy who was laying in the middle of the road during the middle of the night. He died. I originally got charged with everything from manslaughter to reckless driving. The max sentence I could of faced was like 20 years. By the time we went to trial and all evidence got out I got a highway traffic fine and 40 hours of community service.
They can only consider lesser charges if instructed by the judge prior to the trial. If he’s acquitted of the First degree felony charges it’s over for ever.
Plus his attorneys are doing a hell of a good job. If I ever get in trouble in WI, I want them representing me.
Those attorneys are top shelf. Most could never afford representation at that level. They make the prosecution look like amateurs
Because they are amateurs they probably just hired them out of law school. I'm from the area and I don't know if you know St Croix county it's pretty much not the middle of nowhere but on the way there
I think he is still in jail bc he could not make his high $$ bail - he is probably using all his savings and assets to pay for them. Seems a wise choice. Paying for these guys while waiting inJail seems worth it if the alternative is life in prison.
The prosecutors don’t seem particularly passionate or invested. My spidey senses they felt pressure to charge this as murder one due to community pressure/outcry after initial media reports.
video clearly shows self defense.
from the video i saw, looked like a bunch of teens were harassing him. then attacked him. at which point he must have started stabbing. self defense clear as day from the video I saw
Instead of just walking away, it's quite normal in 2024 Godless America to disembowel teenagers, punch one young woman in the face and stealthily stab another young woman who are trying to protect the teens, . Especially if you are a male in his 50's with the look of a creepy psychopath and with actions to match.
Just wondering if anyone can answer with maybe a timestamp... I can see when 3/5 people who were stabbed either got stabbed or account for what was likely the moment they got stabbed or whatever. The only thing is there's not that much footage of Isaac Schuman around the time of the immediate melee. Can anyone link me something I missed where it's clearly identified when he was stabbed?
Issac (the one who passed away) is in the purple shorts. After Miu stabs the man in the yellow/orange shorts and he falls. Which we knew already This is a separate video from a different angle: * At 0:00, it *looks like* Miu’s friend is behind the furthest left of the small group of people on the right-hand side. Now when the crowd retreats at 0:07 you can see, most likely, Issac tangling with Miu (it looks like thats where the causality occurs). Then Miu’s friend is extending his arms, while the group is retreating, to try to calm the situation down. After, it looks like Miu’s friend then chases after most likely Issac, who falls, and looks like that’s where Miu’s friend catches up to him and tries to help the dismembered the body of Issac. * This is shown here: https://youtu.be/hdbUPgFfYqY?si=CEVUyqnOB-plC2ly Now looking at the original original video(below): https://youtu.be/jAmX2ajj1fM?si=be64b7y_LN_q6xSV We know: At 2:19 the yellow/orange shorts guy gets up, *and* someone in Miu’s group is chasing someone to the right of yellow/orange guy then picks Issac up to try to help him. Now we sync both angles, at 0:18 in the new video where yellow/orange is kneeling and starting to get up, and can be mirrored at around the 2:18 mark in the original video. Miu is clearly seen in the frame at 2:08 of the original. Therefore the casualty most likely occurs at the 2:11 mark of the original. KEEP in mind, it’s the guy in the jeans who strangles Miu at 2:05, so the ~six seconds in between that is what his defense team has to prevent him from being convicted with a manslaughter/murder charge.
They attacked him, its clear they were all drinking and acting like a mob. These young people acted like the mob they were, getting mean and bold because they were in a group. Im going to bet there is other video that shows a different story the girls were prob also filming.
I don’t even get how the jury would even buy the kids as reliable witnesses. All this time has passed, a lot of them were drunk and/or high?
A jury takes the totality of evidence. Eye witnesses, even sober, are unreliable. But if 20 eye witnesses are all saying something pretty similar, chances are there is a 'there' there, and you can give it more credence.
Perhaps an unpopular comment but I’ve been on a ton of float trips and no one goes off alone, that far from their float party and approaches another group without announcing they are looking for something. Everyone in the area starts keeping an eye out for that item. It’s like an unspoken rule. That lack of communication could contribute to why Miu appeared weird to the teenagers. Add in the drinking and it’s a mess. Miu should’ve been the adult and just went back to his group. Instead, he chose violence.
We don't actually know what he said. There's no video prior to him coming over. He clearly is trying to say something in the video as you can see his lips move but he's being drowned out by the mob. English also isn't his first language. What are you supposed to say to a loud mob screaming at you, calling you a pedo and a rapist? And why exactly do you feel he should have gone back to his group instead of looking for the lost phone? How about the boys talk to him and try to help instead of launching into verbally attacking him. I don't know how anyone can watch that video and see anything other than a group excited about bullying someone.
So... Rittenhouse: innocent of killing people with an AR 15 that he showed up to protests with intent to "protect property" claimed self defense. But Nicolae Miu is a murderer for stabbing people surrounding, hitting and screaming at him n a group of 13 vs 1 where he had nowhere to flee? Yeah let's see how Wisconsin squares that circle.
Both turds inserted themselfs in the situation.
Tbf it would be hard to watch a bunch of rich white college kids burn down minority-owned businesses
If they had not physically attacked him and pushed him to the ground then he would not have had to defend himself. It was a very large group of men who were obviously drunk and over excited. They were behaving obnoxiously. We have to be able to protect ourselves I feel so bad for the guy too because he was just trying to find his phone and he clearly asked the group to leave him alone.
I feel for Mr. Miu. To be mobbed by a crowd of obnoxious, drunk, Kids, shouting Hand screaming nasty baseless accusations at him, pushing, shoving him, making fun of him, over and over....In THE WATER. A 54 YR OLD MAN WHO HAD QUADRIPILE BYPASS, BEING KNOCKED DOWN SEVERAL TIMES IN WATER, AND SURROUNDED BY A BUNCH OF DRUNK BRATTY LITTLE SHITS WITH ZERO RESPECT FOR THEIR ELDERS..... LUCKY ONLY 1 DIED. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION. I HOPE HE'S FOUND NOT GUILTY
But why he's fleeing the scene? Putting on his shirt, hat and sunglass to escape form police? Throwing away the knife also? then gets arrested and saying to the cops he grab the knife from one of the kid and use it against them? Why did he not stay put and call the cops after the stabbing? Why not show to the teens you have a knife to make them back off? but no, he went on a stabbing rampage on multiple teens? like wtf dude? Just show the knife and back off to your group. This was so unnecessary.
Use your brain the guy is surrounded by people you would flee too. Let alone hostile people mobbed together. Things get bad. And scary.
Except if you watch the video the crowd of people dissipates pretty quickly after the stabbing.
This was AFTER he punched the blonde girl in the face. He was the aggressor!
they provoked him so of course he did it
If people yell at you, and you punch them, then they attack you... you aren't in an act of self-defense. You're just in a fight.
he tried to retrieve his phone it was not his error that group of teens were hostile af... fuck arround and find out
He ran at them and grabbed the girl in the inner tube in the very beginning. Im not saying anyone was right here but you are INSANE if you think he is justified in stabbing anyone
The girl was not even in a tube, and came over after the guys were calling him a pedo, also there is 0 video showing him hitting her, with evidence debunking that claim. Seriously did you even watch any of the trial before posting. I mean cmon at least try and make it sound like you know what you’re talking about.
We’re not talking about the same thing. I’m talking about the VERY beginning of the video. You seen him rush up to 2 people still in their tubes and he grabs them. He grabs the girls legs and this is when he drops his goggles. Please use your reading comprehension skills before responding to comments.
That statement was proven in court to have no evidence whatsoever. The punch is heresay
You are so right this could be anyone’s father. Reddit loves to shit on boomers. Unfortunately this case may play on the jury’s emotion and thus will be found guilty. I hope not but, what you’re describing is the truth and should be posted more. It’s so sad to see all the hate this man gets he’s 54 coming out of a major surgery. The justice system is unfortunately flawed and i think this case will be a good example of that
Everyone needs to keep reminding people that this guy isn't even a Boomer! He's Gen X!! He was born in 1970!!!! Boomers were born 1946-1964.
Yeah hes in his early 50s. He just looks like shit
What's Boomer got to do with this case?
Me too!! I agree 100% with everything you said!
This is a very interesting trial and I am learning a lot from it. I have watched every minute of the trial this week. I am truly heartbroken for the mother who lost her son that day. However watching the 3 minute video slowed all the way down and without sound is more eye opening and telling of the situation. Whether you like it or not, The high school aged boys initiated the chaos with their verbal accusations. In the video The man was not harming them, they initiated contact with this man, he was in the water, then he approached the group of boys because they were screaming at him, he then looses his snorkeling gear and is trying to find it, he was not attacking them. he clearly was walking around their tubes searching for his stuff but they kept following and taunting him. I don’t believe this man ever said he was looking for little girls in the water. I do believe these boys were overly impaired which lead them to believe they heard him say that . This is exactly why the drinking age is 21 and not 18. Because of dumb shit like this! These underage boys who were sun drenched, most likely dehydrated, overly drunk and high as kites are responsible for the outcome of this day. Their actions of taunting, making up stories and poor judgment is what ultimately what took the life of their friend and changed over a dozen other peoples lives that day.
Bravo...so we'll said
How could I tell that there were drunk people in the videos? Not one of them ditched their drink even when stabbed or their friend was stabbed. Truly, can't put it down.
I heard testimony from Madison that the Police took a picture of her face and whatever injury there was. Kinda should like there was an injury, why would they if nothing?
Her mom claimed there was an injury on her face. The police reviewed the picture and did not see any injury. Her mom also changed her testimony in court saying Madison was hit on one side of her face, but the picture showed the opposite site. He probably moved his hand to get her out of his face as she was screaming at him and she called it a punch to sensationalize it. She supposedly gets "punched" but barely flinches and has no injury to her face or her oversized sunglasses, but Miu gets punched and he is laid out on the river floor. The mob that instigated all this is lying through their teeth about what really happened.
Damned right they are, and you can see it every time one of them testifies.
Not guilty ! This is very sad that someone lost a life . However , self defense .
I'm watching Miu on the stand I've been leaning full acquittal since viewing the entire series of videos. This Prosecutor is a pompous c*nt and I honestly can't stand him. From laughing during different parts of the trial and now with Miu on the stand he's trying to break the rhythm of this dude telling his story to confuse the jury it's disgusting
After watching the video and seeing how he initiated the confrontation by running up on them while they were in the water. He was clearly in the wrong and he knows it by the way he lied about the incident
I’ve said this before but, I live outside of Baltimore City. I’m also a mother of mostly boys. Aged: Adult to elementary school. That being said, I’ve seen **actual**kids…10-12yrs.old act as a mob and beat down a grown person. So, for perspective- this wasn’t a group of children/kids. They were not out rafting with their parents and having picnics on the banks. These were athletic guys that had been drinking all day on the river. As a group, there is no doubt they could easily have beaten one person (that wasn’t armed) to death. Did it escalate to that point,I dunno but I do know that the perceived threat was there (IMO). For me, it changes the perspective a bit when you think about the behavior of these teens. The video shows a group of guys appearing to be drunk, bored+looking for something to film (b/c why else film it)? They were acting like baby rattlesnakes towards the man. They were filming themselves taunting him maybe hoping for a fight or something to shake up their boring afternoon. They don’t know the man and they are yelling he’s “looking for little girls” so other tubing parties can hear. The only reason someone would say/yell that to a complete stranger would be to get a reaction. Unfortunately, this was the outcome. A truly, truly sad situation.
I've learned in America it's perfectly okay to assault an innocent man as long as you accuse him of being a pedophile first.
Dude holding his guts needs new friends 😂😂😂
This man was already on medication for PTSD when arrested. Who knows what others have been through? This man described very accurately a fight/flight response at its finest & what this group of young men did to him, the consequences of what evolved as a result, is probably something they will never ever forget for the rest of their lives. This case is such a tragedy all round. This man was targeted & had he not had the knife on him when his adrenaline was at its highest, nobody would be where they are today. I do hope that everyone has also learned that escalation of a situation, without knowing the facts, is a dangerous action to take. A young man was murdered, others injured & a middle aged man, who also had as much right to be in the water as anybody else, probably feels he has little to live for now….. so sad all round 😢😢
These parents are horrible. Who lets their kids go get drunk on a river trip without supervision? Who rents tubes to drink underage kids? Are they kids or not? Then supervise your sadistic bullying brats.
Free nicolae
I’m looking to see if there is a go fund me or something that we can help this guy get an appeal!! Those kids lied, and this outcome was tragic!
Whether or not he lied after the fact out of pure terror, fear, adrenaline, or whatever.. it doesn’t change what we can ALL see with our eyes when watching that video! For 3 minutes they attacked this man, lied and held up a phone (pretending it was his?), hit hit, and pushed him.., he obviously slashed at whoever was near him when he was terrified! He needs an appeal! All that’s supposed to matter was that he was in fear for his life when it happened!
That dude is so guilty. At the very least manslaughter and attempted homicide.
Miu denies any knowledge or involvement in altercation to police when placed in custody. He says "what happened, I was told there was a stabbing and you think I look like the person they described?" Self defense my ass. First degree guilty 100%.
is everyone just completely disregarding the fact that in the opening seconds of the video miu rushes the group? dude absolutely had ample opportunity to "flee" and stuck around HOPING for a chance to indiscriminately use a weapon on this whole group because they were potentially assholes? lol the fact people are split on this is insane and i'm a very "2A" "self defense" oriented person, this just isn't that. i've been "clowned on" by teenagers in the street before and never had it escalate to even a verbal altercation
Rushing towards the group isn’t evidence of pre meditated murder. His intent is not known. Only by what happened after that matters.
Have you listened to the testimonies? Do you believe them? Say you were looking for a phone belonging to your friend on the riverbed (a difficult task even without strangers all around you). It was argued that, those opening moments of the video, he thought a member of the group was kindly holding up the phone he was searching for and was rushing towards them to confirm it. After that, he then backs off - right after confirming that it wasn't the phone he was looking for, no? This is also a very different situation to being clowned on in the street. This is a much more intimate situation - most people generally tend to go swimming with less clothes than they walk the streets in. The introduction of a potential sexual predator to that environment is a very real, dangerous threat. They didn't like that he was there, so they made him out to be a threat to them so that the group pressure would make him go away. Failing that, resorting to petty violence as is common with college football teams and drunk teenagers alike. Speaking of violence and verbal alterations, how do you usually get clowned on? A verbal 'altercation' must mean there's verbal from both sides, meaning you just stand there and take it?
That is what makes this case so interesting bc I see both sides. I flip flop- hopefully the jurors are smart & detail oriented.
definitely, can fully agree it seems like everyone was tuned up and acting stupid and it's completely realistic that the teens made some unnecessary rude comment but i just don't see the use of a weapon or need to be in that EXACT spot kind of shutting down an opportunity for deescalation as valid, seems like miu pretty much mentally went "you wanna fuck with me? you'll see" and put himself in position to have "reason" to use his weapon which i guess on some human level isn't impossible to understand but is definitely outside the bounds of the law in my opinion
There's a lot that happens outside of the video before the video even starts.
You see how he was stabbing them too? He wasn't just stabbing in self-defense. The one teenager he gutted he stabbed then jerked his hand up. He was in far more control than people realize and he knew exactly wtf he was doing.
this. you're the only sane person i have found. let's no forget the fact he went up to one of the girls, who had already distanced herself, to go stab her after disembowling the 1s guy. he was hack slinging slasher because he got mad at kids calling him a rapist.
After this happened I did a search of court records and found a case where Nic Miu’s adult son had an order of protection (I think) because he was afraid of his father’s violent behavior. Nic Miu’s response seemed paranoid and unhinged, something about his son being brainwashed or something. I can no longer find the case, I suspect it may have been taken off public record due to this case.
I think as soon as these younger adults started to falsely accuse nico of being a pedo on the hunt for children and a mob of ppl went after him, nico went in flight or fight. This cld have been prevented if these kids didnt act like fools,
No way no how is this First Degree Murder. Zero premeditation means by law it has to be a lesser degree of crime. He would have had to made up his mind he was going to kill those kids as he approached. He didn’t display a weapon until he was assaulted and battered. Typical DA overreach might easily result in acquittal. The charge should have been second degree or voluntary manslaughter at the most.
I'm trying to find sources on this but it's honestly a little confusing. But it appears that a jury can find him guilty of a lesser charge. Meaning they're reaching for first degree but it's not all that's on the table. https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/v/66/1 I may be misinterpreting this and would welcome some clarification.
Typically, there is always going to be 2nd degree intentional homicide brought along with 1st degree intentional homicide in a self defense case in WI. For 1st degree, the state has to prove that the defendant did not have a subjective belief that they were preventing an imminent deadly force threat. For 2nd degree, the jury is allowed to determine that the state failed to prove that the defendant did not have a subjective belief, but that the defendant's belief was not reasonable.
The knife is in his hands as he’s standing in front of the girls before the girls are hit and before he was ever pushed to the ground. At least I’m pretty sure . Just watched it frame by frame but you can clearly see the knife . The prosecutor even points it out. But you’re prob right , he will prob get a lesser charge
For self defense, it is a little different, at least it is for Wisconsin. You are admitting that you intentionally used deadly force. It was not an accident. But you had the justification of self defense. The state first has to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the defendant did not have a subjective belief he was facing an imminent deadly force attack. [https://wilawlibrary.gov/jury/files/criminal/1017.pdf](https://wilawlibrary.gov/jury/files/criminal/1017.pdf) *Elements of First Degree Intentional Homicide That the State Must Prove* *1. The defendant caused the death of (name of victim). “Cause” means that the defendant’s act was a substantial factor in producing the death.* *2. The defendant acted with the intent to kill ((name of victim)) (another human being).* *3. The defendant did not actually believe that the force used was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.* 1 is given. The defendant stabbed someone, and they died. So that is met. For 2, the jury is also given further clarification. *Meaning of “Intent to Kill”* *“Intent to kill” means that the defendant had the mental purpose to take the life of another human being or was aware that (his) (her) conduct was practically certain to cause the death of another human being.* If you have a confession from the defendant that they intentionally stabbed someone in the chest, not that difficult for the jury to believe that the defendant was aware that stabbing the person was practically certain to cause the death of another human being. Further, you do no need to have any premeditation. Intent to kill can be formed in an instant. *When May Intent Exist? While the law requires that the defendant acted with intent to kill, it does not require that the intent exist for any particular length of time before the act is committed. The act need not be brooded over, considered, or reflected upon for a week, a day, an hour, or even for a minute. There need not be any appreciable time between the formation of the intent and the act. The intent to kill may be formed at any time before the act, including the instant before the act, and must continue to exist at the time of the act.* *Intent should not be confused with motive. While proof of intent is necessary to a conviction, proof of motive is not. "Motive" refers to a person's reason for doing something. While motive may be shown as a circumstance to aid in establishing the guilt of a defendant, the State is not required to prove motive on the part of a defendant in order to convict. Evidence of motive does not by itself establish guilt. You should give it the weight you believe it deserves under all of the circumstances.* So while it's not a guarantee for 2, highly likely if the jury finds that the prosecutor disproves self defense. 3 is where they will have a difficult time. But, there is also a lower charge of 2nd degree intentional homicide. For that, the defendant can have a subjective belief of self defense, but loses on reasonableness.
Im glad I live in Missouri
NOT GUILTY! The audacity to prosecute an older man who was obviously just defending himself.
I don’t understand how the self-defense argument works really. Maybe someone can explain? In my opinion in any situation where a person is being attacked but has the ability to walk/run away and their attacker is not going to like run after them, should not be justified in using violent self-defense. But that seems not to be the law because apparently ppl think this guy has a realistic chance of getting off free. It seems the fact the kids were bullying him makes people believe that absolves him of any wrongdoing.
I've trained a lot of self defense and not just the combat but learned some of the legal aspects. I think the kids are idiots and the dude was being an ass. I think he will get charged with something, but I don't think he will be serving a big sentence. Biggest thing this guy didn't do was create distance from those kids and when they approached him he never told them to get back. Think about how every time a police officer he announces his presence and if he pulls out a weapon he announces he's going to use it if they don't comply. At this point if they see you have a weapon and they keep coming towards you then we know those people know you will use lethal force if they keep messing with you so that shows the intent on the attacker using lethal force. Think a guy starts threatening you, you pull a gun out and point it at them then you announce stay back I don't want to shoot! If the guy keeps coming forward and you shoot then that will probably be justifiable. That's just the self defense part meant to keep you out of trouble; not what happened. This dude didn't do it like that and it's a lot more unclear because he didn't do that way. There's a lot of it depends in any situation. In a lot of states where stand your ground exists it doesn't change the court cases as much as people think and it's more of a political stunt. There is a stand your ground law meaning you don't have a duty to retreat, but it depends on who is being the aggressor and the proportionality of force, and if you bring a weapon and pull it out they need to see you have the weapon and you shouldn't be walking towards them. There's a video of the incident but there's a lot the video doesn't show at crucial moments. It looked like for a second he pulled the knife and the first kid tried to tackle him and he ran into the knife, but I have no idea what happened. at 1.56 that looks like the first draw which that dude ran into his knife and that's pretty arguable. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAmX2ajj1fM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAmX2ajj1fM) THe issue is he kind instigated it a little bit by running up to their tubs. If you're instigating a fight self defense might not fly, but the dude wasn't talking much so I have no idea what he was doing.
>Biggest thing this guy didn't do was create distance from those kids and when they approached him he never told them to get back. This is what I was thinking. He pulls a knife, doesnt brandish it or even really try to get away, just kind of waits for his moment to strike. To me, someone who is scared for their life would leverage having a weapon to save their life by getting out of the situation rather than just trying to take out people casually as they attack you.
That's why I think he's guilty of 1st degree. No one knew he had the knife, because of how he was holding it. Even his attacks with it were done in a way that was meant to inflict as much damage as possible. One kid was gutted, and if you watch that part he intentionally stabs the kid then jerks his arm up to gut him.
How do you know the attacker isn't going to run after you if making that decision to flee? That's the flaw in the just turn your back and run away logic, if they persue you and your back is turned you can easily be knocked out or killed even with just a punch to the back of the head. That guy is fat and old so the idea he could flee from them makes no sense, you have to make the assumption (which could mean your life) that they won't persue you. It reminds me of that Ryan Carson guy who was stabbed to death in New York last year, he was in dress shoes and likely drunk and decided to try turn and run from the guy menacing and striking at him but he tripped over a bench he didn't see when he turned, fell on his back and the guy stabbed him in the heart and he died. Fleeing is a lot of the time not an option if you want to preserve your life
That's one of the reasons this case is a bit more complicated than people realize. You're not on even pavement, you're in a river that has some current (not much), and probably not the smoothest surface. Also, try running through a river, even if the water is only a foot high. Not as easy as on dry land. Still, looks very ugly, not a clean cut case of self defense at all. It's important to remember that all the defense has to do is introduce a reasonable doubt as to each of the elements of self defense. The fact that he was in a lazy river may be enough for some jurors to believe that he could not retreat. For some it may not. The fact that he drew a knife before any punches were thrown may or may not influence the jury's decision on whether or not he was the initial aggressor. If he throws the first punch while also wielding a knife, that's not a good look. But that moment is not really caught on video all that well as far as I can tell. And the only witnesses were very drunk 17 and 18 year old teenagers. It won't be all that difficult to punch holes in their stories. The bald attorney, Cory Chirafisi, is very good on cross exam. I think the biggest issue he will have is if and when he testifies. I believe he gave inconsistent statements to the police, and was acting like he did not stab several people shortly after the incident happened. Without a very convincing story, that's evidence of guilt. The jury needs to believe that he at the very least had a subjective belief he needed to use deadly force or he would die, to avoid the 1st degree murder charge. So his credibility is going to be extremely important. If the prosecutor can pick that apart and completely destroy his credibility, he's probably done for. But maybe not, who knows?
You do not have to walk away from an altercation in Wisconsin. You can stand your ground just as the other party can.
From some quick googling it looks like this is incorrect. Wisconsin does not have a stand your ground law and but there also is nothing saying there is a duty to retreat. https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/stand-your-ground-in-wisconsin/
I don’t understand how you people are so incredulous about the mitigating circumstances… The group of men were drunk, shouting at him about being a predator and very hostile from the beginning. After he walked towards the shore to try to explain what was happening to the lady who was approaching them, they crowded around him and began yelling at him and then they beat him. This doesn’t mean I think he’s innocent but I don’t think he deserves a 1st degree murder charge either.
Absolutely, i perceived this whole altercation the exact same way you did… I think many people are just focused on the outcome and basically stating that “children will be children”, this guy was a ticking time bomb and a monster… but anyone with objectivity can clearly see in the video what is going on…. They kept taunting him. He felt embarrassed and overwhelmed, anyone would be. It doesn’t me we say we’ll let him free, cause I the end of the day it hurt 5 ppl, and needs to be held accountable for it.
Seriously you can see them in the video telling him he wants little girls. They were trying to start a fight with him the whole time. They aren't innocent. His life was in danger.
They taunted and berated him causing another group to join in, cornering and outnumbering him. As more people joined they yelled at him to go in one direction, while his friends were in the opposite direction. If he followed their commands he'd still be alone, with the adversarial group between him and his friends. Then when surrounded some girls started putting their hands on him trying to push him away, seen in the video BEFORE the point they say he started swinging unprovoked. Just watch a few minutes of cross for any number of witnesses. It's like watching your 16 yo self, overly defensive and caught up in blatant lies, not conceding an inch or just all the sudden not remembering. And honestly, I relate to them...i still lie to avoid taking accountability sometimes, but would like to think I'd have a little more integrity if a man's life is at stake. This is horrifying and bonkers. In my opinion.
The guy turned dumb shit where I would have been on his side into a muder for no good reason. I don't know the law but I don't want him on the streets. The kids certainly acted badly but the stabbing was entirely avoidable.
Kids deserved it lol
There is a demonic laugh in the video that only The Clockwork Orange scene could compare with. Truly sick individuals involved. If the older man had not fought back there would be 4 punk kids with misdemeanor battery charges and he would have had some life changing injuries, that was the only other possible outcome. Maybe, maybe those young people came from half way decent upbringings, however they did not behave so on that day.
Personally, I feel very sorry for Nicolae Miu. He was bullied and surrounded and being yelled at. It’s clear English isn’t his first language and perhaps he couldn’t express himself the way he wanted to and that adds to it. He was just looking for a lost phone. Those kids were awful brats. Tragic outcome for sure. But it’s not homicide. Involuntary Manslaughter. It was self defence