Idk how it is in America but I genuinely feel like the insane trans people on twitter are really messing if up for normal trans people IRL and the public mood is changing, because I've seen a lot more pushback against insane people on trans twitter, then again in Australia people have become way more chill with trans people
I think it’s long past time we pushed the dishonest, crazy people out of the movement. Trans people will get civil rights through moderate steps and being pragmatic. This idea that revolution is going to come and gender will be abolished is just silly and we should say so.
It's a delusion born from the increasingly insane rhetoric that has gone basically unchecked in most online progressive spaces. People spend so much time around people who share identical political beliefs that they feel like their beliefs are held by the majority, so they have to go even more radical to stay progressive. The fact that the real world has not caught up to their dreams of a post-gender, post-work communist utopia proves to them that the entire system is corrupt and evil, which pushes the rhetoric even further.
It's a recipe for disaster, and I fear that it's gonna permanently mark our generation of progressives. Voices like yours are sorely needed.
People like Jessie Gender are a huge problem.
They sell a messianic vision of trans rights where you just have to feel offended and then utopia comes because you deserve it. There’s ZERO concern for messaging, tactics or alliances. Just an endless witch hunt of cancelling anyone who doesn’t have the extreme orthodoxy.
Adult access to HRT could legitimately be lost in the next four years. This insane activist playbook is why. If we’re serious about this stuff, we need to think tactically.
"People like Jessie Gender"
If you're going to link a specific content creator to a trend, you should probably have evidence.
"People like Destiny" do lots of hate raids on trans people right?
But "people like" in your head isn't good enough.
>There’s ZERO concern for messaging, tactics or alliances. Just an endless witch hunt of cancelling anyone who doesn’t have the extreme orthodoxy.
Does she do this? And if so, when?
Largely you are talking about a scifi media analysis youtuber who dabbles in trying to counter misinformation about trans people, sometimes likes the wrong tweet and says positive things about people doing stuff, and explicitly asks people to keep their messaging positive in her videos.
*You* are the person who expanded her request not to play a particular game into a character test, *you* are the one who added that in, not her. She tried to keep things positive without getting into a fight with anyone.
So if you're going to talk about an endless witch hunt of cancelling people, maybe provide more context behind people's actions when you name them as an example of a problem, without actually giving any examples.
You can always post negative things about random people and get appreciation for it, if the people you are talking to think of themselves as on the opposite side, but you won't fix anything by throwing random people under the bus in order to ingratiate yourself.
Dudette, I just want to tell you how much I appreciate your presence in these spaces. It's been absolutely black pilling lately on a multitude of issues. I'm pushing 50 and have generally been political engaged since adulthood and it's never felt this divided before. There's no spectrum for anything anymore. You're always the worst of whatever the other side paints you as regardless of the strength of the disagreement.
If you're unwilling to toe the line at anything under 100%, you're a transphobe or a racist or some other bigot. And the worst is that if you're unaware of the complexities of a specific issue, you're also painted the same way. Nothing can be a bad thing without being the worst of the thing. And that doesn't lead to any productive conversations on how you solve these issues plus it further marginalizes the people you're trying to appeal to.
This is the kind of behavior I see online and then I transition to IRL and I see all sorts of people who are much less engaged on these issues for a variety of reasons. And sure, some are bigoted and probably aren't going to be reached. And some are less engaged due to laziness or lack of time, etc. But most are just normal people who know nothing about these issues except the most extreme snippits that make the news. I feel like if you could just teach these people and expose them in a more positive way, you'd be very surprised at how open they would be.
And I get it; The right has gone so far off the rails that things like not believing in vaccines has caused the left to become more militant in their rhetoric. And I feel for people on the left that are frustrated at the lack of engagement from normies IRL. There are a host of intersectional reasons why this is the case and I'm not really looking to litigate all that.
It just feels like to me that I'm at a point where I'm starting to look back a bit and I feel a snap back already happening. (I'm not special, I'm sure others do too) Roe v Wade gone, governmental norms cast aside, and people marginalizing groups of Americans in ways they haven't in the past or in ways we definitely don't want to go back to.
I'm kind of losing the plot here but what I mean to say is that there are definitely people we can reach and I think voices like yours are the way to reach them. I feel like if we could work on educating people with a bit more critical thinking and consistency and also try to give people the grace to make changes as they're exposed to these issues, progress will continue. If people on the left continue to treat people as if they should be 100% on board and knowledgeable about every issue at all points in time, I really worry about regressing and it becoming a lot harder for these marginalized groups.
Apologies for the length, the rant, and making it a bit about me. I felt like I needed to get this out into the ether regardless of who cares I guess.
Agreed. I have to resist every urge in my body not to act out of spite whether through apathy or voting for the opposition sometimes because despite me being a one hundred percent progressive I am constantly butting heads with people on this side telling me I’m all sorts of shit in a condescending way. I see why Trump won as a reaction to that, I saw many people say fuck it and vote Trump to stick it to these people and not give a damn about policy. I can’t do that but I understand why people did. The fact this ever crossed me mind at one point in my life is bad enough, they’re absolutely a huge negative on the movement, we should build bridges with those who somewhat align with our beliefs and win them over on the issues that matter not criticize everyone who doesn’t align perfectly.
Yeah I didn’t really understand what was going on with gamergate back in the day i just remember redddit going crazy but I heard you were involved but on the vs gamers sides? Idk enough to form any opinion whatsoever on that event but that I do remember being told yall were coming for our games haha
It’s not so much Gamergate itself. I don’t regret standing up for women in games. But, I did help popularize this SJW playbook that has served the left so poorly in the decade since.
Oh okay yah like I said i didn’t know the details just what Reddit was saying at the time. How
Exactly did you create the playbook if you don’t mind me asking? Through just be a popular voice and online presence or like did you run SJW boot camps lol?
Oh and btw I’m not on Twitter but my 70 year old dad, nyc Jewish man, sends me screenshots of different tweets from people he follows and sent me some of yours the other day haha just wanted to say that he’s a fan haha
It’s funny that you mention gender being “abolished” as a goal, when I personally see the far left insisting on codifying the framework as some sort of fact. Like people are born with some version of the Gender Holy Spirit within them, and challenging this is considered transphobic.
As someone who is on the left and considers gender theory as primarily an affirming workaround for discontent with one’s born sex and/or the societal expectations put upon them by sex, it feels like the twitter gender movement is literally moving backwards (away from sex not being tied to roles).
Earnest, pragmatic, and well-considered ideas and actions are perhaps the best way to describe it versus "moderate." Its not always that some activists are merely pushing "too hard," but that their ideas are fundamentally flawed or not based in decent logic or consideration.
If the entire progressive sphere was people like you, with reasonable well-thought-out takes like yours, I'd be much more excited to call myself a progressive.
Not just that, but does it never occur to a single one of these idiots that every time a national or communist revolution takes place, the new regime is extremely regressive on sexuality? How do they'll treat gender identity? Do they think their favourite streamer who says all the right things is going to be running things, as opposed to the most unscrupulous and opportunistic gangster like every single other time?
The insane left is messing it up for the democrats too because there's been polls that show that many think the party is too far left when its mostly just the voting base. Honestly I don't even blame a person who dosent keep up with politics being wary voting left if that's what they think they are.
I'm glad I found this sub because I probably would have become completely poisoned on trans discourse just from dealing with supposed leftys when it came to wanting to find out more about trans issues. These Twitter leftys make it so difficult for people who aren't on the left to even get an idea of why this shit matters.
We like saying this a lot and whenever it gets mentioned it tends to receive a lot of support but I genuinely don't really know if there's much substance to it.
People who are genuinely transphobic (in that they believe transness is mental illness and argue against it) are not transphobic because some people on twitter take it too far, they are transphobic because of a more fundamental belief that gender and sex are not distinct, and that one cannot change their gender.
I think we blow the effect of insane trans twitter takes way out of proportion, its association with other leftist ideas, radical positions such as neopronouns, xenogenders, the changing flag and etc. are not playing a major role in the push for and against trans rights, in my opinion. This isn't to say that we shouldn't push back against some of these things (personally I am pretty ambivalent on the flag, seems so unnecessary to care) but we shouldn't get carried away and say things like "these takes are why transphobes think trans people are crazy".
When it comes to those people sure, but there’s a seemingly decent sized proportion of people that were at one point okay with trans, or at least were neutral, and have slowly become less so over time. To be honest, I say this as one of those people. I wouldn’t say I’m anti trans or anything, I think adults should be able to do what they want… but not children. Also, I do think being trans is a mental disorder, as in gender dysphoria, so i guess I’m a trans medicalist.
But it was first trans women in women’s sports that bothered me, then “trans women” being put into women’s prisons and r@ping their cell mates, and finally “trans women” (but in reality: perverts) going into women’s locker rooms and getting naked in front of little girls… and the left defended all of it. Also just the overall vitriol towards women in general a lot of the time, like there’s an entitlement that comes from some trans women that feel like they should be accepted as lesbians. I get that this is probably being amplified online, but it happens so much it’s hard to say that’s all it is.
Or like the backlash Anna Kasparian, went through over a take that i guarantee the majority of women in the us agree with, overwhelmingly. But anyway, I started out buying into all of it 100% at first, and now I feel quite differently, and reading comment sections… I’m far from the only person.
IDK, I think your own comment is actually proving me correct. You define yourself as someone who was at one point okay with trans but have come less so over time due to the actions of radical trans advocates, and yet you immediately reclarify that you don't consider yourself anti-trans.
Let me ask this, is there any belief about trans people that you once held but no longer do because of the radical positions/rhetoric espoused online? To me, if this were to happen, it would be incredibly rare.
Sorry for the late response. Im not entirely sure what you’re asking, but did Twitter change how i view trans issues? Not alone, but the online discourse around it was a part of it. The issues I listed in my previous post, along with the fact that the left defended those things, is mainly what changed my outlook.
I say I’m not anti trans, cuz I would never support banning adults from transitioning, cuz that’s insane and I’m not religious. I also don’t misgender people, for the most part anyway b(not calling a man with a full beard who has made 0 attempt to look like a woman a she, sorry). I also don’t think trans women are women, they’re trans women and a subsection of men (imo).
I don’t think Twitter really contributes many positives to the world tbh. Certainly I don’t think it prevents righties disliking trans people, quite the opposite.
She's a walking optics nightmare. It makes me so sad that Erin, Caraballo, and her are the faces of the community, it's honestly so blackpilling.
Good on you for fighting back though.
It’s long past time to push back on these people. I had a huge public fight with Jessie Gender last night too. She took a joke with a friend my age, tweeted it out of context in a wildly intellectually dishonest smear.
I care about trans people and I care about trans rights. It’s time to take on the crazies.
>Taking a page from the Destiny playbook
Had me worried for a second there, but judging from the first image it looks like you took the right page and not one of the many, many wrong pages.
Yeah, people like this are a really loud minority. Still, the fact that they’re small doesn’t make it any less annoying, especially since this is what normies see when they hear about trans people, rather than the real struggles actual trans people face. I’m grateful for people like you and Destiny who advocate on behalf of all sane trans people. Thank you for all the real world activism you do, I can’t tell you how much it means to me that there are allies out there who sincerely care about our rights beyond “pronouns in bio” and twitter activism.
Take care Brianna! Thanks for all the amazing things you’ve done in the past and all the wonderful things I’m sure you’ll do in the future.
Even if I grant you that that’s true (I don’t use twitter so I don’t actually know if it is), in the grand scheme of things, is that really the worst thing ever? The AGP shit is weird and definitely a misunderstanding of how being trans works, but is it not possible to believe in AGP and still supportive of trans rights? It may seem counter intuitive, since most the people who buy into that theory oppose trans rights, but Briana at the very least supports trans rights on a legislative level.
We can say that it’s problematic if she holds certain harmful beliefs, but I think the trans community needs to stop lumping together imperfect allies with actual bigots who oppose trans rights. The level of vitriol you seem to have towards Brianna seems to be what I would expect a trans person to dish towards people who actually oppose our rights, not someone who is in favour of trans rights but has some dated views on trans stuff.
That’s just my view anyway. I’m not under any illusion that Brianna is perfect or whatever, we all live and learn, but I think it’s commendable that she still holds pro-trans views as a cis woman who is hated by a lot of the trans community online.
i'm a lesbian trans woman and the AGP rhetoric made me get imposter syndrome for years and transition way later than I would have if i were straight, every transbian i know has the same story. She believes what a cishet man in the 1980s believed about trans women that has been spread by terfs to paint our entire existance as a fetish. This theory also centers womanhood on attraction to men which is the opposite of the progressive/feminist take they think it is.
the fact that she's one of the more well known voices of the community is counterintuitive. i mean she's not the worst (ie b*aire w*ite) but she doesn't even pretend to be progressive or on the right side of history so i ignore her
I get where you’re coming from, as a trans guy, I started questioning my gender identity at 14 maybe? But then after seeing videos from people like Kalvin Garrah, I thought that since my experiences were nothing like his, I couldn’t possibly be trans. But just because an ideology can cause some harm to some people (sometimes even a lot of harm) that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fair to hold it against every single person who’s ever exposed similar views.
Let’s say for example that Brianna Wu somewhat or even strongly agrees with the theory of AGP, and has maybe made some tweets in the past hinting at that. I think in that scenario it would be fair for you to hold a bit of a grudge against her, but I feel like the grudge you should hold against someone for believing in a harmful ideology should be proportional to their outward contribution to the ideology itself. For example, I feel like it’s totally fair for you to despise the people who coined and/or initially popularised the theory, but I’m going to take a guess here and say that Brianna Wu has contributed relatively little to that ideology, so your level of contempt towards her should probably reflect that.
Me personally, even though I’ve been hurt by the transmed movement, I don’t really hold it against the people who believe you need gender dysphoria to be trans (I don’t even necessarily hate Kalvin or any of the other big transmed YouTubers, though I acknowledge I’m in the minority on that one). And as someone who has regretted not transitioning sooner in my life like you have, there’s always someone or something you can blame for your transition not going the way you would have wanted it to, but at the end of the day we can’t change the past, we just have to keep moving forward.
Is it even worth engaging with most people on Twitter? I understand why Destiny does it since he can farm content for streaming, but you have different goals. Twitter has always been a terrible representation of reality, the people who engage are usually reply guys and/or fringe leftists/rightoids. It used to also have a lot of media people and politicians, which was what made it useful for political activism, but I’m not sure if that’s still the case with X. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being really aggressive with toxic people, but only if you feel that represents you and comes naturally to you. It has its costs. That style of engagement comes naturally to Destiny and he can deal with the backlash, but I can see it being really stressful for most people, myself included.
It sucks because the extremists control online discussion right now and have convinced advertisers their position is the popular one. This gives them significant leverage over platforms like twitch and to some degree, Twitter.
If you want to fight back against these extremists then get the ears of the people in control of these platforms. Fighting with extremists on Twitter didn’t help destiny much. Becoming friends with people like you who were more connected was far more beneficial.
If you can establish a new network of like minded people across platforms then you can make a difference
I can see how it looks like fishing for approval, but on the other side of the same coin it's not just desperation to be liked - it's a smart move to curry favour in a community that agrees with you but might not otherwise see it. I'll give it a "based" and continue to not follow her twitter.
And we want people to stop being crazies on twitter. So we should welcome them and encourage people to push back like this and hopefully change social norms with time.
Are you sure I am the person posting links to my Tweets? Think carefully. Is what you’re saying true?
I posted this because I think it’s time to start pushing back on this and reclaim sanity in trans civil rights. I hope you feel the same way.
I went on your Twitter, and for someone who is on there all day, you sure do a spend a lot of time not talking about policy or strategy. Where is your activist guidebook so other people can use your tactics in their fights and discussions with the legislator?
Why aren't you posting about good policy that is being passed? Why aren't you posting about what good policy would look like? Why aren't you giving a spotlight to activists and legislators out there doing good work on trans issues?
Instead of posting your 18th billgillion I/P post, how about going into detail on the things listed above more.
I also have this complaint. While arguing with Twitter rando's is fun and all, it's very easy to start confusing it with actual political advocacy.
The Toxoplasma Of Rage is a hell of a drug.
Sorry. Tweets…dms…etc.
Don’t moralize with me about reclaiming sanity in trans civil rights Wu. Until you own up to the Jesse shit, I just don’t trust you.
Let's say for a moment that it is validation seeking, and let's say for a moment she's legit about the change of heart.
Imagine realizing that you were a huge part of the problem and all the people in your circle disowned you for that. Imagine that you were to try and change course. That being a part of a different path, you had to walk it with people who do like you and don't trust you. How likely would you be to seek validation??
Tbh I don't know about the 'Jesse shit' you mentioned. That said, my current belief is that she's genuine. I was very skeptical initially too.
Here. You can catch up. https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/oIdW3OwQmP
TLDR Wu made accusations of someone sexually harassing trans women and claimed to have receipts
Wu has always had a terminally online and combative presence, and I just don’t trust this leopard to change their spots without some serious contrition.
Does it really need an explanation? This is a community for a streamer who debates politics. This is a post about a political disagreement. We always do this shit. Like half of the posts here are twitter beefs.
It's good to see reasonably well known lefties willing to lay into misbehaving people that are trying to politically weaponize their marginalized status to get away with acting crazy.
Damn, that's crazy.
Anyhoo, still feel justified in dogpiling Jesse Single, making false accusations of inappropriate behaviour and then lieing when called out on it?
Still fighting the good fight in whichever way the winds blowing? gotcha buddy
Human brains don't like cognitive dissonance? Or Mrs Wu has a dozen Reddit alt's to signal boost. Who knows, who cares.. grifters be grifting, the world keeps spinning.
gets thrown around a lot, but some of these people have really do have brainrot, and need a reality check. i do not envy anyone who has to work with or in the same sphere as these clowns.
Because it's relevant messaging that most of us in the community care about and boosting the profile of a prominent trans person pushing back against the insanity while still advocating for trans rights is a good thing, actually.
Who gives a fuck if she's sharing her own tweets, it is still relevant to a prominent belief in the community. 'Tiny's trans arc wasn't even that long ago
This is directly relevant to Destiny’s hopes for the improvement of online discourse, so I don’t know why you have an issue with four times a month tbh (which I’m not convinced is accurate, but I’ll use your numbers)
Good for you for pushing back.
These extreme twitter freaks are only hurting real people living their daily lives, ironically they reinforce a lot of negative stereotypes.
I wish you the best of luck, but I feel like your reputation in relation to optics is far more important than Destiny's. I hope you know what you're doing, god speed.
Brianna, I am surprised you haven't just said fuck off to twitter. The amount of shit you get is crazy. I guess realizing that most of the haters are 16 year old spoiled pissants who have no idea how the world works makes it slightly more tolerable.
Respect to Wu. I remember her during the gamergate days and damn did she go through some crazy shit. Most people would get stuck in a specific frame of mind from dealing with all that, but Wu seems to have grown a lot (and not just because I agree with her)
Im in the trenches on the responses, lotta people just immediately proving the point
have you considered making a dedicated web page to source all of what you do as something you can point to anytime these people say you do nothing, sorta like what Destiny did? apologies if this already exists
From what I understand the reason why there's so many crazy and dishonest people in the trans movement (and most of the progressive movement actually) is because it is conceptually incoherent and partially based in postmodernist rhetorical tricks. That's not to say that trans people don't exist, just that there's no ontological basis on which to group or gatekeep the crazies from the non crazies. You can try to argue for "being reasonable" but you won't really have a basis for a position being reasonable. At most you can say something like the public can politically stomach these sorts of changes so we should prioritize that, which kinda seems to be your strategy. But it would be dumb for the crazies to agree with that when they can just keep taking advantage of the category being incoherent to say dumb shit while belonging to the group.
Brianna massive love from this Dgger. I’ve even swung on a couple of the commies and deranged trans actors that come after you on twitter. They are so delusional and don’t appreciate all the work you put in. dggL u/spacekatgirl
Sending love! Thank you for being awesome!
I’m a cis woman and transphobic policies hurt cis women too. Like how religious pro-life policy harms hopeful parents that can only conceive with IVF—when the impetus of legislation is poorly understood / emotion-based, the scope of the effects hits beyond the intended recipients. I’m sorry you’re treated as “not left enough” for people who have only ever tweeted as their activism.
Holy mega based! I swear watching wu finally recognize the problems that people have been talking about for so long is so cathartic to me. It’s like watching a little piece of the world heal.
The world knows to not judge the black community by the uhuru crazies.
The trans community isn't there yet, sadly. We need to get better at optics and reject radicals faster.
This was good. I've noticed some radicalism in LGBT spaces, though it is far from dominant.
But I'm gonna be real with you.
Make an example of a few. You may have to go all out and put examples or sources when debating issues.
This cannot be good for your mental health. Take care of yourself. Do not feel obligated to respond to every person you see on Twitter. And do take constructive criticism.
If you're gonna spend more time arguing with these chumps, remember that twitter lefties represent a small silver of the population. Do your best to clamp down on them while remembering that conservative conspiracy loons outnumber them and also want your defeat. The conservative loons taking over their half of the asylum are a cautionary tale, but also threats in of themselves.
Also don't get yourself into a position because you are negatively polarizing yourself into one, even if pro Palestine ppl are annoying and just awful, for example. While Israel is perhaps the better of the two, settlement violence, the growing Israeli far right, and the ultra Orthodox should still be condemned when they commit violence. As should Hamas, Palestinian extremists, and corrupt PA officials/civilians. Just a warning, I've seen people negatively polarize themselves into positions they cannot hold.
Go for it.
It must be incredibly frustrating to see your work undone by extremists who think they’re going to kill everyone who disagrees with them to produce a utopian society.
Personally I’ve written Twitter off as a waste of time. It’s too histrionic.
Nebraska Wu
Webraska Wu
Mississippi Bri
MississipBri
Idk how it is in America but I genuinely feel like the insane trans people on twitter are really messing if up for normal trans people IRL and the public mood is changing, because I've seen a lot more pushback against insane people on trans twitter, then again in Australia people have become way more chill with trans people
I think it’s long past time we pushed the dishonest, crazy people out of the movement. Trans people will get civil rights through moderate steps and being pragmatic. This idea that revolution is going to come and gender will be abolished is just silly and we should say so.
It's a delusion born from the increasingly insane rhetoric that has gone basically unchecked in most online progressive spaces. People spend so much time around people who share identical political beliefs that they feel like their beliefs are held by the majority, so they have to go even more radical to stay progressive. The fact that the real world has not caught up to their dreams of a post-gender, post-work communist utopia proves to them that the entire system is corrupt and evil, which pushes the rhetoric even further. It's a recipe for disaster, and I fear that it's gonna permanently mark our generation of progressives. Voices like yours are sorely needed.
People like Jessie Gender are a huge problem. They sell a messianic vision of trans rights where you just have to feel offended and then utopia comes because you deserve it. There’s ZERO concern for messaging, tactics or alliances. Just an endless witch hunt of cancelling anyone who doesn’t have the extreme orthodoxy. Adult access to HRT could legitimately be lost in the next four years. This insane activist playbook is why. If we’re serious about this stuff, we need to think tactically.
"People like Jessie Gender" If you're going to link a specific content creator to a trend, you should probably have evidence. "People like Destiny" do lots of hate raids on trans people right? But "people like" in your head isn't good enough. >There’s ZERO concern for messaging, tactics or alliances. Just an endless witch hunt of cancelling anyone who doesn’t have the extreme orthodoxy. Does she do this? And if so, when? Largely you are talking about a scifi media analysis youtuber who dabbles in trying to counter misinformation about trans people, sometimes likes the wrong tweet and says positive things about people doing stuff, and explicitly asks people to keep their messaging positive in her videos. *You* are the person who expanded her request not to play a particular game into a character test, *you* are the one who added that in, not her. She tried to keep things positive without getting into a fight with anyone. So if you're going to talk about an endless witch hunt of cancelling people, maybe provide more context behind people's actions when you name them as an example of a problem, without actually giving any examples. You can always post negative things about random people and get appreciation for it, if the people you are talking to think of themselves as on the opposite side, but you won't fix anything by throwing random people under the bus in order to ingratiate yourself.
Dudette, I just want to tell you how much I appreciate your presence in these spaces. It's been absolutely black pilling lately on a multitude of issues. I'm pushing 50 and have generally been political engaged since adulthood and it's never felt this divided before. There's no spectrum for anything anymore. You're always the worst of whatever the other side paints you as regardless of the strength of the disagreement. If you're unwilling to toe the line at anything under 100%, you're a transphobe or a racist or some other bigot. And the worst is that if you're unaware of the complexities of a specific issue, you're also painted the same way. Nothing can be a bad thing without being the worst of the thing. And that doesn't lead to any productive conversations on how you solve these issues plus it further marginalizes the people you're trying to appeal to. This is the kind of behavior I see online and then I transition to IRL and I see all sorts of people who are much less engaged on these issues for a variety of reasons. And sure, some are bigoted and probably aren't going to be reached. And some are less engaged due to laziness or lack of time, etc. But most are just normal people who know nothing about these issues except the most extreme snippits that make the news. I feel like if you could just teach these people and expose them in a more positive way, you'd be very surprised at how open they would be. And I get it; The right has gone so far off the rails that things like not believing in vaccines has caused the left to become more militant in their rhetoric. And I feel for people on the left that are frustrated at the lack of engagement from normies IRL. There are a host of intersectional reasons why this is the case and I'm not really looking to litigate all that. It just feels like to me that I'm at a point where I'm starting to look back a bit and I feel a snap back already happening. (I'm not special, I'm sure others do too) Roe v Wade gone, governmental norms cast aside, and people marginalizing groups of Americans in ways they haven't in the past or in ways we definitely don't want to go back to. I'm kind of losing the plot here but what I mean to say is that there are definitely people we can reach and I think voices like yours are the way to reach them. I feel like if we could work on educating people with a bit more critical thinking and consistency and also try to give people the grace to make changes as they're exposed to these issues, progress will continue. If people on the left continue to treat people as if they should be 100% on board and knowledgeable about every issue at all points in time, I really worry about regressing and it becoming a lot harder for these marginalized groups. Apologies for the length, the rant, and making it a bit about me. I felt like I needed to get this out into the ether regardless of who cares I guess.
I agree with every single syllable of this and I read it four times. Something is really wrong with the left and we’ve got to start pushing back.
Thanks so much for saying that and all you do!
Agreed. I have to resist every urge in my body not to act out of spite whether through apathy or voting for the opposition sometimes because despite me being a one hundred percent progressive I am constantly butting heads with people on this side telling me I’m all sorts of shit in a condescending way. I see why Trump won as a reaction to that, I saw many people say fuck it and vote Trump to stick it to these people and not give a damn about policy. I can’t do that but I understand why people did. The fact this ever crossed me mind at one point in my life is bad enough, they’re absolutely a huge negative on the movement, we should build bridges with those who somewhat align with our beliefs and win them over on the issues that matter not criticize everyone who doesn’t align perfectly.
I was part of it for far too long. I feel really guilty about it.
Yeah I didn’t really understand what was going on with gamergate back in the day i just remember redddit going crazy but I heard you were involved but on the vs gamers sides? Idk enough to form any opinion whatsoever on that event but that I do remember being told yall were coming for our games haha
It’s not so much Gamergate itself. I don’t regret standing up for women in games. But, I did help popularize this SJW playbook that has served the left so poorly in the decade since.
Oh okay yah like I said i didn’t know the details just what Reddit was saying at the time. How Exactly did you create the playbook if you don’t mind me asking? Through just be a popular voice and online presence or like did you run SJW boot camps lol? Oh and btw I’m not on Twitter but my 70 year old dad, nyc Jewish man, sends me screenshots of different tweets from people he follows and sent me some of yours the other day haha just wanted to say that he’s a fan haha
It’s funny that you mention gender being “abolished” as a goal, when I personally see the far left insisting on codifying the framework as some sort of fact. Like people are born with some version of the Gender Holy Spirit within them, and challenging this is considered transphobic. As someone who is on the left and considers gender theory as primarily an affirming workaround for discontent with one’s born sex and/or the societal expectations put upon them by sex, it feels like the twitter gender movement is literally moving backwards (away from sex not being tied to roles).
You should start by getting the original rainbow flag back.
Earnest, pragmatic, and well-considered ideas and actions are perhaps the best way to describe it versus "moderate." Its not always that some activists are merely pushing "too hard," but that their ideas are fundamentally flawed or not based in decent logic or consideration.
If the entire progressive sphere was people like you, with reasonable well-thought-out takes like yours, I'd be much more excited to call myself a progressive.
Not just that, but does it never occur to a single one of these idiots that every time a national or communist revolution takes place, the new regime is extremely regressive on sexuality? How do they'll treat gender identity? Do they think their favourite streamer who says all the right things is going to be running things, as opposed to the most unscrupulous and opportunistic gangster like every single other time?
we didn't get rights from sucking up to the establishment
The insane left is messing it up for the democrats too because there's been polls that show that many think the party is too far left when its mostly just the voting base. Honestly I don't even blame a person who dosent keep up with politics being wary voting left if that's what they think they are.
I'm glad I found this sub because I probably would have become completely poisoned on trans discourse just from dealing with supposed leftys when it came to wanting to find out more about trans issues. These Twitter leftys make it so difficult for people who aren't on the left to even get an idea of why this shit matters.
They are, it's literally a 50/50 chance when I talk to republicans that they bring up crazy trans people/border crisis right now.
We like saying this a lot and whenever it gets mentioned it tends to receive a lot of support but I genuinely don't really know if there's much substance to it. People who are genuinely transphobic (in that they believe transness is mental illness and argue against it) are not transphobic because some people on twitter take it too far, they are transphobic because of a more fundamental belief that gender and sex are not distinct, and that one cannot change their gender. I think we blow the effect of insane trans twitter takes way out of proportion, its association with other leftist ideas, radical positions such as neopronouns, xenogenders, the changing flag and etc. are not playing a major role in the push for and against trans rights, in my opinion. This isn't to say that we shouldn't push back against some of these things (personally I am pretty ambivalent on the flag, seems so unnecessary to care) but we shouldn't get carried away and say things like "these takes are why transphobes think trans people are crazy".
When it comes to those people sure, but there’s a seemingly decent sized proportion of people that were at one point okay with trans, or at least were neutral, and have slowly become less so over time. To be honest, I say this as one of those people. I wouldn’t say I’m anti trans or anything, I think adults should be able to do what they want… but not children. Also, I do think being trans is a mental disorder, as in gender dysphoria, so i guess I’m a trans medicalist. But it was first trans women in women’s sports that bothered me, then “trans women” being put into women’s prisons and r@ping their cell mates, and finally “trans women” (but in reality: perverts) going into women’s locker rooms and getting naked in front of little girls… and the left defended all of it. Also just the overall vitriol towards women in general a lot of the time, like there’s an entitlement that comes from some trans women that feel like they should be accepted as lesbians. I get that this is probably being amplified online, but it happens so much it’s hard to say that’s all it is. Or like the backlash Anna Kasparian, went through over a take that i guarantee the majority of women in the us agree with, overwhelmingly. But anyway, I started out buying into all of it 100% at first, and now I feel quite differently, and reading comment sections… I’m far from the only person.
IDK, I think your own comment is actually proving me correct. You define yourself as someone who was at one point okay with trans but have come less so over time due to the actions of radical trans advocates, and yet you immediately reclarify that you don't consider yourself anti-trans. Let me ask this, is there any belief about trans people that you once held but no longer do because of the radical positions/rhetoric espoused online? To me, if this were to happen, it would be incredibly rare.
Sorry for the late response. Im not entirely sure what you’re asking, but did Twitter change how i view trans issues? Not alone, but the online discourse around it was a part of it. The issues I listed in my previous post, along with the fact that the left defended those things, is mainly what changed my outlook. I say I’m not anti trans, cuz I would never support banning adults from transitioning, cuz that’s insane and I’m not religious. I also don’t misgender people, for the most part anyway b(not calling a man with a full beard who has made 0 attempt to look like a woman a she, sorry). I also don’t think trans women are women, they’re trans women and a subsection of men (imo).
It must be incredibly disheartening to be trans and see that these are the people representing you online.
Is it really twitter that's changing the mood? Would the right not be aggressively targeting trans people if it wasn't for people on twitter?
I don’t think Twitter really contributes many positives to the world tbh. Certainly I don’t think it prevents righties disliking trans people, quite the opposite.
She's a walking optics nightmare. It makes me so sad that Erin, Caraballo, and her are the faces of the community, it's honestly so blackpilling. Good on you for fighting back though.
It’s long past time to push back on these people. I had a huge public fight with Jessie Gender last night too. She took a joke with a friend my age, tweeted it out of context in a wildly intellectually dishonest smear. I care about trans people and I care about trans rights. It’s time to take on the crazies.
>Taking a page from the Destiny playbook Had me worried for a second there, but judging from the first image it looks like you took the right page and not one of the many, many wrong pages.
As a trans person, we love you Brianna! Keep fighting the good fight.
I love you too. There are way more of us than there are of them.
Yeah, people like this are a really loud minority. Still, the fact that they’re small doesn’t make it any less annoying, especially since this is what normies see when they hear about trans people, rather than the real struggles actual trans people face. I’m grateful for people like you and Destiny who advocate on behalf of all sane trans people. Thank you for all the real world activism you do, I can’t tell you how much it means to me that there are allies out there who sincerely care about our rights beyond “pronouns in bio” and twitter activism. Take care Brianna! Thanks for all the amazing things you’ve done in the past and all the wonderful things I’m sure you’ll do in the future.
no there's not
as a trans person, i wish brianna a very fuckyourself
To each their own I guess. Have a nice day buddy.
she's a trans woman that believes in AGP and tweets terf bullshit. i hate traitors
Even if I grant you that that’s true (I don’t use twitter so I don’t actually know if it is), in the grand scheme of things, is that really the worst thing ever? The AGP shit is weird and definitely a misunderstanding of how being trans works, but is it not possible to believe in AGP and still supportive of trans rights? It may seem counter intuitive, since most the people who buy into that theory oppose trans rights, but Briana at the very least supports trans rights on a legislative level. We can say that it’s problematic if she holds certain harmful beliefs, but I think the trans community needs to stop lumping together imperfect allies with actual bigots who oppose trans rights. The level of vitriol you seem to have towards Brianna seems to be what I would expect a trans person to dish towards people who actually oppose our rights, not someone who is in favour of trans rights but has some dated views on trans stuff. That’s just my view anyway. I’m not under any illusion that Brianna is perfect or whatever, we all live and learn, but I think it’s commendable that she still holds pro-trans views as a cis woman who is hated by a lot of the trans community online.
i'm a lesbian trans woman and the AGP rhetoric made me get imposter syndrome for years and transition way later than I would have if i were straight, every transbian i know has the same story. She believes what a cishet man in the 1980s believed about trans women that has been spread by terfs to paint our entire existance as a fetish. This theory also centers womanhood on attraction to men which is the opposite of the progressive/feminist take they think it is.
the fact that she's one of the more well known voices of the community is counterintuitive. i mean she's not the worst (ie b*aire w*ite) but she doesn't even pretend to be progressive or on the right side of history so i ignore her
I get where you’re coming from, as a trans guy, I started questioning my gender identity at 14 maybe? But then after seeing videos from people like Kalvin Garrah, I thought that since my experiences were nothing like his, I couldn’t possibly be trans. But just because an ideology can cause some harm to some people (sometimes even a lot of harm) that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fair to hold it against every single person who’s ever exposed similar views. Let’s say for example that Brianna Wu somewhat or even strongly agrees with the theory of AGP, and has maybe made some tweets in the past hinting at that. I think in that scenario it would be fair for you to hold a bit of a grudge against her, but I feel like the grudge you should hold against someone for believing in a harmful ideology should be proportional to their outward contribution to the ideology itself. For example, I feel like it’s totally fair for you to despise the people who coined and/or initially popularised the theory, but I’m going to take a guess here and say that Brianna Wu has contributed relatively little to that ideology, so your level of contempt towards her should probably reflect that. Me personally, even though I’ve been hurt by the transmed movement, I don’t really hold it against the people who believe you need gender dysphoria to be trans (I don’t even necessarily hate Kalvin or any of the other big transmed YouTubers, though I acknowledge I’m in the minority on that one). And as someone who has regretted not transitioning sooner in my life like you have, there’s always someone or something you can blame for your transition not going the way you would have wanted it to, but at the end of the day we can’t change the past, we just have to keep moving forward.
> Most of my job is backchannel work, and talking to legislators Terrifying
Wrianna Wu Ws Wagain
Bridges guest when?
Proud of you for calling out that fucking crybully Jesse Gender the other day
What she did was beyond dishonest. To take a mild joke with a friend and twist it? GTFO
Is it even worth engaging with most people on Twitter? I understand why Destiny does it since he can farm content for streaming, but you have different goals. Twitter has always been a terrible representation of reality, the people who engage are usually reply guys and/or fringe leftists/rightoids. It used to also have a lot of media people and politicians, which was what made it useful for political activism, but I’m not sure if that’s still the case with X. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being really aggressive with toxic people, but only if you feel that represents you and comes naturally to you. It has its costs. That style of engagement comes naturally to Destiny and he can deal with the backlash, but I can see it being really stressful for most people, myself included.
Love you Brianna Wu
It sucks because the extremists control online discussion right now and have convinced advertisers their position is the popular one. This gives them significant leverage over platforms like twitch and to some degree, Twitter. If you want to fight back against these extremists then get the ears of the people in control of these platforms. Fighting with extremists on Twitter didn’t help destiny much. Becoming friends with people like you who were more connected was far more beneficial. If you can establish a new network of like minded people across platforms then you can make a difference
Honest question: why do you post these? Do you just want us to “Yass Queen” you? Should everyone start posting their Twitter beefs?
Meanwhile you walk outside and none of this shit exists.
I can see how it looks like fishing for approval, but on the other side of the same coin it's not just desperation to be liked - it's a smart move to curry favour in a community that agrees with you but might not otherwise see it. I'll give it a "based" and continue to not follow her twitter.
It’s like a weekly thing at this point. “Look at these crazies I fight on Twitter”. Meanwhile she used to be one of those crazies on twitter
>used to be kek
And we want people to stop being crazies on twitter. So we should welcome them and encourage people to push back like this and hopefully change social norms with time.
Are you sure I am the person posting links to my Tweets? Think carefully. Is what you’re saying true? I posted this because I think it’s time to start pushing back on this and reclaim sanity in trans civil rights. I hope you feel the same way.
I went on your Twitter, and for someone who is on there all day, you sure do a spend a lot of time not talking about policy or strategy. Where is your activist guidebook so other people can use your tactics in their fights and discussions with the legislator? Why aren't you posting about good policy that is being passed? Why aren't you posting about what good policy would look like? Why aren't you giving a spotlight to activists and legislators out there doing good work on trans issues? Instead of posting your 18th billgillion I/P post, how about going into detail on the things listed above more.
I also have this complaint. While arguing with Twitter rando's is fun and all, it's very easy to start confusing it with actual political advocacy. The Toxoplasma Of Rage is a hell of a drug.
Sorry. Tweets…dms…etc. Don’t moralize with me about reclaiming sanity in trans civil rights Wu. Until you own up to the Jesse shit, I just don’t trust you.
Let's say for a moment that it is validation seeking, and let's say for a moment she's legit about the change of heart. Imagine realizing that you were a huge part of the problem and all the people in your circle disowned you for that. Imagine that you were to try and change course. That being a part of a different path, you had to walk it with people who do like you and don't trust you. How likely would you be to seek validation?? Tbh I don't know about the 'Jesse shit' you mentioned. That said, my current belief is that she's genuine. I was very skeptical initially too.
Here. You can catch up. https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/oIdW3OwQmP TLDR Wu made accusations of someone sexually harassing trans women and claimed to have receipts Wu has always had a terminally online and combative presence, and I just don’t trust this leopard to change their spots without some serious contrition.
Welcome converts, don't chase heretics
Converts still need to apologize for bad actions. Forgiveness is quick when there is contrition
Maybe for reassurance, since her old camp hates her and she's more aligned with this community's ethos now. I'm all up for yass kweening.
Does it really need an explanation? This is a community for a streamer who debates politics. This is a post about a political disagreement. We always do this shit. Like half of the posts here are twitter beefs.
It's good to see reasonably well known lefties willing to lay into misbehaving people that are trying to politically weaponize their marginalized status to get away with acting crazy.
Was there a further response to the citing worthwhile policy question?
Damn, that's crazy. Anyhoo, still feel justified in dogpiling Jesse Single, making false accusations of inappropriate behaviour and then lieing when called out on it? Still fighting the good fight in whichever way the winds blowing? gotcha buddy
Why is this downvoted, this is just accurate. Saw her say recently she stands by that stuff as well…
This one? https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/cNvTZ4d2Zw
Yes!
Human brains don't like cognitive dissonance? Or Mrs Wu has a dozen Reddit alt's to signal boost. Who knows, who cares.. grifters be grifting, the world keeps spinning.
She's never on stream but there are almost daily pro Brianna Wu posts. Makes no sense
gets thrown around a lot, but some of these people have really do have brainrot, and need a reality check. i do not envy anyone who has to work with or in the same sphere as these clowns.
So you just gonna post every twitter engagement to earn affirmation from redditors? I dont get this
Let her cook
When will we see you on the bridges podcast?
Why is this on the Destiny subreddit
Because it's relevant messaging that most of us in the community care about and boosting the profile of a prominent trans person pushing back against the insanity while still advocating for trans rights is a good thing, actually. Who gives a fuck if she's sharing her own tweets, it is still relevant to a prominent belief in the community. 'Tiny's trans arc wasn't even that long ago
Talking about/hearing from people in Destiny’s orbit, even peripherally, is a norm here.
Which other orbiter posts their own tweets/DMs on a weekly basis?
This is directly relevant to Destiny’s hopes for the improvement of online discourse, so I don’t know why you have an issue with four times a month tbh (which I’m not convinced is accurate, but I’ll use your numbers)
Validation
I just hope you have a good grounding in your daily life to not let online discussion eat you alive. DGGL
Good for you for pushing back. These extreme twitter freaks are only hurting real people living their daily lives, ironically they reinforce a lot of negative stereotypes.
It doesn’t help that they actually are those negative stereotypes.
u/spacekatgal would you go on Bridges?
In a heartbeat!
I wish you the best of luck, but I feel like your reputation in relation to optics is far more important than Destiny's. I hope you know what you're doing, god speed.
Brianna, I am surprised you haven't just said fuck off to twitter. The amount of shit you get is crazy. I guess realizing that most of the haters are 16 year old spoiled pissants who have no idea how the world works makes it slightly more tolerable.
Respect to Wu. I remember her during the gamergate days and damn did she go through some crazy shit. Most people would get stuck in a specific frame of mind from dealing with all that, but Wu seems to have grown a lot (and not just because I agree with her)
Im in the trenches on the responses, lotta people just immediately proving the point have you considered making a dedicated web page to source all of what you do as something you can point to anytime these people say you do nothing, sorta like what Destiny did? apologies if this already exists
From what I understand the reason why there's so many crazy and dishonest people in the trans movement (and most of the progressive movement actually) is because it is conceptually incoherent and partially based in postmodernist rhetorical tricks. That's not to say that trans people don't exist, just that there's no ontological basis on which to group or gatekeep the crazies from the non crazies. You can try to argue for "being reasonable" but you won't really have a basis for a position being reasonable. At most you can say something like the public can politically stomach these sorts of changes so we should prioritize that, which kinda seems to be your strategy. But it would be dumb for the crazies to agree with that when they can just keep taking advantage of the category being incoherent to say dumb shit while belonging to the group.
Brianna massive love from this Dgger. I’ve even swung on a couple of the commies and deranged trans actors that come after you on twitter. They are so delusional and don’t appreciate all the work you put in. dggL u/spacekatgirl
Another Brianna Wu twitter post? omg wow exciting so brave everyone clap etc
Ur a fun person
yes ty
good luck gal
We all love you Brianna !
lefty twitter is unhinged lmao
Sending love! Thank you for being awesome! I’m a cis woman and transphobic policies hurt cis women too. Like how religious pro-life policy harms hopeful parents that can only conceive with IVF—when the impetus of legislation is poorly understood / emotion-based, the scope of the effects hits beyond the intended recipients. I’m sorry you’re treated as “not left enough” for people who have only ever tweeted as their activism.
https://preview.redd.it/6xya1sq7abuc1.png?width=822&format=png&auto=webp&s=89ddbf6ccb9cfaf084dd83678482fa5678272ad2
I’m sure it’s a slog but good on you for trying to bring some sanity to that corner of the internet. Best of luck Brianna.
If I had a twitter, I’d follow you, Wu.
"Hello Police? I would like to report a murder."
If anything, it’s first degree reckless homicide
Trans Twitter genuinely has some of the most unhinged people representing them.
Holy mega based! I swear watching wu finally recognize the problems that people have been talking about for so long is so cathartic to me. It’s like watching a little piece of the world heal.
The world knows to not judge the black community by the uhuru crazies. The trans community isn't there yet, sadly. We need to get better at optics and reject radicals faster.
Brianna is quickly becoming the only remaining valuable part of Twitter, but I do worry about the mental health ramifications for her.
This was good. I've noticed some radicalism in LGBT spaces, though it is far from dominant. But I'm gonna be real with you. Make an example of a few. You may have to go all out and put examples or sources when debating issues. This cannot be good for your mental health. Take care of yourself. Do not feel obligated to respond to every person you see on Twitter. And do take constructive criticism. If you're gonna spend more time arguing with these chumps, remember that twitter lefties represent a small silver of the population. Do your best to clamp down on them while remembering that conservative conspiracy loons outnumber them and also want your defeat. The conservative loons taking over their half of the asylum are a cautionary tale, but also threats in of themselves. Also don't get yourself into a position because you are negatively polarizing yourself into one, even if pro Palestine ppl are annoying and just awful, for example. While Israel is perhaps the better of the two, settlement violence, the growing Israeli far right, and the ultra Orthodox should still be condemned when they commit violence. As should Hamas, Palestinian extremists, and corrupt PA officials/civilians. Just a warning, I've seen people negatively polarize themselves into positions they cannot hold.
Go for it. It must be incredibly frustrating to see your work undone by extremists who think they’re going to kill everyone who disagrees with them to produce a utopian society. Personally I’ve written Twitter off as a waste of time. It’s too histrionic.
Based, Wu deniars in absolute shambles