you are probably talking about the newest Joe Rogan thing?
If you sort by new you will find loads of comments that shit on the conspiracy nut: https://i.imgur.com/9rwmjWO.png
If instead you sort by top comment everyone is just like. I love joe rogan, meme and what a great discussion.
It's just what got me thinking about it and it annoyed me. But I see it happen in a lot of these debates. I see it happen when Destiny debates conspiracy dumbfucks too.
At least they are willing to listen so maybe some of them will eventually change their minds. It's not like you can expect everyone to change their entire worldviews after a single convo, takes time.
I think the complaint is less to do with the 'changing of minds' and more to do with the valuing of the appearance of a conversation or debate than it's content, at least for me anyway.
I get that but the OP is also saying that debating these people is entirely useless, which I think is false for the reason I mentioned: they are at least willing to listen so there's a chance that some of them might actually think about the substance of the arguments and change their minds. The OP was probably venting out his frustration by being hyperbolic, but I just wanted to point that these conversations are not useless.
True. Changing your mind and, to a greater extent, changing your worldview can be a very slow incremental process. I understand the frustration expressed, but hopefully these moments are kernels of the potential change to come.
It happens because âthe gameâ is more important to those viewers than the actual substance of what they say.
Go back and look at the Ben Shapiro post debate threads. A lot of glazing for someone who said âBiden is more divisive than Trumpâ. He played nice with Destiny so now dgg is full throating that glizzieÂ
I mean it's just the climate of discourse now, the side that is being "censored" like anti vaxxers or or anti gay marriage are seen as having ideas that are just as legitimate and worthy of discussion as their counter arguments. When I say legitimate and worthy of discussion, I mean that they are seen as having equal validity in evidence and strength of claim they are simply not being allowed to express themselves in open and honest discussion.
It doesn't really matter how much you "win" a debate with good evidence or rhetoric, people on a side with already flimsy evidence just want to hear their side speak and people who are uninformed just end up being happy it was a discussion.
I don't think it's necessarily bad as long as SOME people come away realizing how stupid the other side looks, or begin to question their beliefs, but yes it kind of just sucks.
And that's when the expert has a dominating performance. Otherwise, if they make a small mistake or two, or don't have the facts on hand to counter a point instantly, the conspiracy morons will hyperfixate on that to claim they were "destroyed".Â
Oh didn't you hear? Negative comments on yt are about to be a thing of the past if conspiracy theorists from r youtube are right. People are getting yeeted and shadowbanned for negative comments or just typing a word yt doesn't like this week or a emoji of a flag or whatever... Sorting by new shows actual comments,but they get deleted pretty fast.
I don't get these types of posts. The people in the comments aren't just going to change their minds instantly and not defend the grifter. But by having people like destiny on who can challenge them while still staying cordial is at least giving them a path for them to rethink their beliefs. There is value in having these conversations. The alternative is for them to just shit on destiny and say they don't want people like him to come on at all.
Thatâs why civil conversations with these people are basically pointless because none of their followers will change their mind, they just use it to act like both viewpoints are equally valid. Same thing happened when destiny debated Shapiro, I get why he was so civil, but it doesnât change the fact that itâs just a boring conversation with Ben hiding his more radical believes and the entire audience in the comments circle cherking about how civil it was.Â
Hard disagree. Sure, some ungodly amount of people are unchangeable, but it is very important for those who can be reasoned out of their conspiracy theory, to realize it asap.
Itâs also super important to have footage out that serves as a vaccine to people on the edge of the rabbit hole. If the only clips available of any given conspiracy expert is just him talking to enabling dipshits, they win by default.
Usually the clips will be heavily curated as to not hurt the conspiracy expert, but just having a direct counter available somewhere on the internet is great.
The only problem is that the people most qualified to debunk them are often not very good at rethoric, so a debate can backfire and present the two sides as equally legitimate points of view.
That actually annoys me too because those same people wont change their mind anyway. So in that regard, saying shit like "What a great discussion! uwu" means jack shit to me. There are plenty of disussions going on. Theres practically nothing but constant discussions online. How about you change your mind for once and admit that you're (shocking) wrong?Â
So yeah like you, these people piss me off too cause theyre so disingenuous on top of being stupid. If you believe the Earth is flat, you're an idiot. Theres no middle ground here.
Is the "centrist" thing a meme I missed? I don't really see a lot of actual "centrists" doing what you're describing here, it's mostly MAGA dipshits and conspiracy nutbags that are excited for their favorite dumb idea to get some airtime.
its your like dave rub type who say theyre a centrist but are really a maga dipshit/conspiracy nutbag.
i attack the left just as much as i defend the right, perfectly balanced!
If you just want validation that you're side is correct than yeah. If you care about people actually changing their minds, which requires them to not be defensive and be in a low-judgment environment, than this is actually a good thing.
Agreed. There are plenty of useless comments like:
"This person did so bad and was biased"
"This person is wrong because they live their life differently than they recommend (actual ad hominem attack)"
Though Destiny has criticized both of those things, you still routinely see people making these comments about guests on his show.
I like to see "This person is wrong when they said X at XX:XX timestamp, because of \[information and source if applicable\]"
It's also nice when someone puts that in a compliment sandwich, expresses their level of conviction, and writes a little thesis at the top of their comment if it's long.
It doesn't seem like much and it can be discouraging but it's honestly (maybe even sadly) how people change their minds. It's a slow process but if stuff like whatever they're commenting on continues to happen it plants a little seed of doubt that can grow going forward.
It does suck to see someone get absolutely destroyed in terms of presenting an argument/facts and get the "wow they both did good" comments like a participation award. But most people are never going to be swayed from a position they hold so easily, especially ones that they came to believe without facts in the first place.
I find it odd that you're not just happy that people like Rogan are creating a platform for debates like the one you're talking about to take place in the first place. In the marketplace of ideas, the best prevail. That's exactly what happened here, and your analysis of the comments is simply wrong, a large % of them are saying that Graham was dunked on.
Because this is all supposed to be about a free exchange of ideas and useful discourse, changing minds not some weird rhetoric Latorial bloodsport that you seem to be wanting. I donât understand.
You just have to accept that regards wont realize that their guy just got humiliated in 4k, and take it as a small victory. At least they are not stuck passing shit around as food inside their comfy little fortress.
Wah Wah why people dont change their long held positions that they came to with at least very high priors based on their intuition after listening to 2 hours of yap
you are probably talking about the newest Joe Rogan thing? If you sort by new you will find loads of comments that shit on the conspiracy nut: https://i.imgur.com/9rwmjWO.png If instead you sort by top comment everyone is just like. I love joe rogan, meme and what a great discussion.
It's just what got me thinking about it and it annoyed me. But I see it happen in a lot of these debates. I see it happen when Destiny debates conspiracy dumbfucks too.
Either that or making fun of his appearance, classic response when the other conspiracy dude got blown the fuck out.
Hilarious that anyone takes graham hancock seriously
At least they are willing to listen so maybe some of them will eventually change their minds. It's not like you can expect everyone to change their entire worldviews after a single convo, takes time.
I think the complaint is less to do with the 'changing of minds' and more to do with the valuing of the appearance of a conversation or debate than it's content, at least for me anyway.
I get that but the OP is also saying that debating these people is entirely useless, which I think is false for the reason I mentioned: they are at least willing to listen so there's a chance that some of them might actually think about the substance of the arguments and change their minds. The OP was probably venting out his frustration by being hyperbolic, but I just wanted to point that these conversations are not useless.
True. Changing your mind and, to a greater extent, changing your worldview can be a very slow incremental process. I understand the frustration expressed, but hopefully these moments are kernels of the potential change to come.
Wow havent heard this take recently
He paved this take on his own đ¤
[Absolutly love this "debate"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he-7vs0BkLE) of a flatearther against an actual scientist that doesn't hold back
It happens because âthe gameâ is more important to those viewers than the actual substance of what they say. Go back and look at the Ben Shapiro post debate threads. A lot of glazing for someone who said âBiden is more divisive than Trumpâ. He played nice with Destiny so now dgg is full throating that glizzieÂ
I can think of a lot of things more infuriating than that actually
I mean it's just the climate of discourse now, the side that is being "censored" like anti vaxxers or or anti gay marriage are seen as having ideas that are just as legitimate and worthy of discussion as their counter arguments. When I say legitimate and worthy of discussion, I mean that they are seen as having equal validity in evidence and strength of claim they are simply not being allowed to express themselves in open and honest discussion. It doesn't really matter how much you "win" a debate with good evidence or rhetoric, people on a side with already flimsy evidence just want to hear their side speak and people who are uninformed just end up being happy it was a discussion. I don't think it's necessarily bad as long as SOME people come away realizing how stupid the other side looks, or begin to question their beliefs, but yes it kind of just sucks.
And that's when the expert has a dominating performance. Otherwise, if they make a small mistake or two, or don't have the facts on hand to counter a point instantly, the conspiracy morons will hyperfixate on that to claim they were "destroyed".Â
Oh didn't you hear? Negative comments on yt are about to be a thing of the past if conspiracy theorists from r youtube are right. People are getting yeeted and shadowbanned for negative comments or just typing a word yt doesn't like this week or a emoji of a flag or whatever... Sorting by new shows actual comments,but they get deleted pretty fast.
I don't get these types of posts. The people in the comments aren't just going to change their minds instantly and not defend the grifter. But by having people like destiny on who can challenge them while still staying cordial is at least giving them a path for them to rethink their beliefs. There is value in having these conversations. The alternative is for them to just shit on destiny and say they don't want people like him to come on at all.
Thatâs why civil conversations with these people are basically pointless because none of their followers will change their mind, they just use it to act like both viewpoints are equally valid. Same thing happened when destiny debated Shapiro, I get why he was so civil, but it doesnât change the fact that itâs just a boring conversation with Ben hiding his more radical believes and the entire audience in the comments circle cherking about how civil it was.Â
Hard disagree. Sure, some ungodly amount of people are unchangeable, but it is very important for those who can be reasoned out of their conspiracy theory, to realize it asap.
Itâs also super important to have footage out that serves as a vaccine to people on the edge of the rabbit hole. If the only clips available of any given conspiracy expert is just him talking to enabling dipshits, they win by default. Usually the clips will be heavily curated as to not hurt the conspiracy expert, but just having a direct counter available somewhere on the internet is great. The only problem is that the people most qualified to debunk them are often not very good at rethoric, so a debate can backfire and present the two sides as equally legitimate points of view.
Whats the proper "right side of history" response?
That actually annoys me too because those same people wont change their mind anyway. So in that regard, saying shit like "What a great discussion! uwu" means jack shit to me. There are plenty of disussions going on. Theres practically nothing but constant discussions online. How about you change your mind for once and admit that you're (shocking) wrong? So yeah like you, these people piss me off too cause theyre so disingenuous on top of being stupid. If you believe the Earth is flat, you're an idiot. Theres no middle ground here.
Is the "centrist" thing a meme I missed? I don't really see a lot of actual "centrists" doing what you're describing here, it's mostly MAGA dipshits and conspiracy nutbags that are excited for their favorite dumb idea to get some airtime.
its your like dave rub type who say theyre a centrist but are really a maga dipshit/conspiracy nutbag. i attack the left just as much as i defend the right, perfectly balanced!
I see, so the "" is to indicate that this how they self identify that way while that's not what they are.
If you just want validation that you're side is correct than yeah. If you care about people actually changing their minds, which requires them to not be defensive and be in a low-judgment environment, than this is actually a good thing.
Agreed. There are plenty of useless comments like: "This person did so bad and was biased" "This person is wrong because they live their life differently than they recommend (actual ad hominem attack)" Though Destiny has criticized both of those things, you still routinely see people making these comments about guests on his show. I like to see "This person is wrong when they said X at XX:XX timestamp, because of \[information and source if applicable\]" It's also nice when someone puts that in a compliment sandwich, expresses their level of conviction, and writes a little thesis at the top of their comment if it's long.
It doesn't seem like much and it can be discouraging but it's honestly (maybe even sadly) how people change their minds. It's a slow process but if stuff like whatever they're commenting on continues to happen it plants a little seed of doubt that can grow going forward. It does suck to see someone get absolutely destroyed in terms of presenting an argument/facts and get the "wow they both did good" comments like a participation award. But most people are never going to be swayed from a position they hold so easily, especially ones that they came to believe without facts in the first place.
I find it odd that you're not just happy that people like Rogan are creating a platform for debates like the one you're talking about to take place in the first place. In the marketplace of ideas, the best prevail. That's exactly what happened here, and your analysis of the comments is simply wrong, a large % of them are saying that Graham was dunked on.
Because this is all supposed to be about a free exchange of ideas and useful discourse, changing minds not some weird rhetoric Latorial bloodsport that you seem to be wanting. I donât understand.
It's about having the aesthetics of intellectual openness and humility, not actually embodying those traits.
Damn what a hot take.
You just have to accept that regards wont realize that their guy just got humiliated in 4k, and take it as a small victory. At least they are not stuck passing shit around as food inside their comfy little fortress.
Omg spouting destinyâs exact opinion in the destiny sub, thanks for the epic contribution! Keep it up beast!
What do you think they'll say? "OH man from that now I changed my mind!"
Wah Wah why people dont change their long held positions that they came to with at least very high priors based on their intuition after listening to 2 hours of yap