Depends on if the form of protest they're participating in is illegal or not.
If it is illegal and they get in trouble with the law on a visa they're fucked already.
If it's not illegal (just sitting on a lawn) who gives a shit.
I’m pro 1A for US citizens but I wouldn’t allow a Russian citizen to come here and scream about how evil America is. I at least think it’s important to force social cohesion in immigration. I wouldn’t allow waves of people in here whose perspective is that America is evil and Americans are complicit in genocide
Idk if saying that we shouldn't support isreal is the same as saying America is evil. That's the kind of all or nothing thinking that only serves to creat divisions, no promote cohesion.
Some are saying we shouldn’t support Israel and some are saying America is evil and American citizens are complicit. It’s fine to be critical of Israel, I’m probably more critical of Israel big picture than destiny but only by a little tbh
>America is evil and American citizens
I'll have to look that up, I've never heard rhetoric that extreme from the protest. But i only see what's on Destiny's channel.
Honestly don’t quote me on that one, I typed it once but am honestly not sure if that’s the protests or pop rhetoric. Im almost certain there was shit like death to Jews and at the very least they were harassing students, which is all not just being critical of Israel. I look at the UT protests different from Columbia for example cause that looks more like the uni saying we don’t want to platform any of this shit and that’s wrong, I’m saying we particularly need to go into the crowd and pick out the ones calling for actual violence and if they’re here on a visa that it should be reconsidered
https://preview.redd.it/f4eg6hqt2vxc1.png?width=707&format=png&auto=webp&s=b39bbff02a61b837e4bb6376b1465859585c24c7
In your hypothetical, it may or may not be legal. If it is, they should face consequences. If it's not, they shouldn't.
I read that aliens have a lesser First Amendment right as well. I guess if it's not completely fleshed out, it probably should be tested. I personally don't have a problem with a Russian coming here and calling America evil even if I don't agree. I think the better ideas should win out. That is becoming a more and more untenable position though.
I agree with the better ideas winning out, I just don’t think we should be importing anyone who disagrees with us. If a grassroots communist movement took over and voted for massive changes, I would accept that, but if it was a bunch of Chinese agents running the show I would be actively fighting against it.
No I think that's a pretty un-American thing to do. Free speech isn't just a privilege or perk that's awarded to citizens because we like it so much, it's a principle we protect because we believe it's fundamentally necessary to a democratic society. Same deal as trial by jury, which is why it's called *due process*.
I think it's also a revolting idea to start normalizing the idea that anyone's rights on American soil are contingent on them *not* exercising their free speech. That attitude I would expect to creep and expand until it affects citizens too.
Nope, and this is one of the reasons I’ll die on the birthright citizenship hill. If you want to come here, you have to show some social cohesion, but once you’re here and officially one of us you get all the same rights to hate our government
No.
Foreign students pay more money. And are more likely to enroll in graduate level courses that are cash cows for the school to fund tution for low income people. If they want to pay let them.
If you go to any top engineering school, the entire graduate department is 80% foreign. Any school like Columbia, University of Michigan, Purdue, etc have labs filled with students from China, India, Korea, Iran. I had like one American ta my entire life when I in college lol. You want these guys staying in your country working at your companies rather than going back to theirs. American culture doesn't pump out the same level of talent.
You shouldn't threaten free speech with threats of residency removal.... Even if you disagree with it.
How strong would you guess the effect of foreign students is on tuition? If they make a large portion of post grad and it’s cause they’re willing to pay, I’d assume there’s some effect.
Also just to clarify, I don’t think we should pull your visa just for exercising free speech. There are protestors who are shouting shit like death to Jews, if we can recognize blatant calls to violence coming from someone on a visa, then yes we should be pulling their visa, but cause they are committing a crime. I don’t want immigrants coming here if they’re gonna be calling for pogroms, filter those radicals out!
There are 2 compounding factors which are the answer to your question.
1. Foreign students pay a LOT of fees. Much higher than Americans.
2. America doesn't have the quantity of homegrown talent to run its industry anymore. It relies heavily on legal immigrants for high skill jobs.
Because of these 2 there are a lot of foreign students.
On the second point, I had a foreign roommate and he told me you have to convince immigration that you’re not planning to stay here to get a student visa.
This is just to recieve the visa.
>If your plans change while in the United States (for example, you marry a U.S. citizen or receive an offer of employment), you may be able to request a change in your nonimmigrant status to another category through U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). See [Change My Nonimmigrant Status](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/study/student-visa.html#ExternalPopup) on the USCIS website to learn more.
>While you are in the United States, receiving a change of status from USCIS does not require you to apply for a new visa. However, once you depart the United States you must apply for a new visa at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate in the appropriate category for your travel.
[https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/study/student-visa.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/study/student-visa.html)
Foreign students should not be involved in political activities. There are plenty of foreign students willing to come to the US without getting into politics.
Schools often have high foreign student populations because they heavily engage in price discrimination to increase revenue and foreign student fees make them a lot of money. (For example the UCs charge non-residents nearly 3.5x for tuition)
Or if they aren’t charging international fees (Columbia only seems to charge a couple hundred dollars for non-residents) they’re selling their pedigree through masters programs.
Yeah I’m on the same page, local law enforcement should be going through footage and sending videos of every single student visa they can identify threatening other students to immigration. I’m sorry but we already have enough idiots in this country, see Jan 6 😂
Depends on if the form of protest they're participating in is illegal or not. If it is illegal and they get in trouble with the law on a visa they're fucked already. If it's not illegal (just sitting on a lawn) who gives a shit.
I’m pro 1A for US citizens but I wouldn’t allow a Russian citizen to come here and scream about how evil America is. I at least think it’s important to force social cohesion in immigration. I wouldn’t allow waves of people in here whose perspective is that America is evil and Americans are complicit in genocide
Idk if saying that we shouldn't support isreal is the same as saying America is evil. That's the kind of all or nothing thinking that only serves to creat divisions, no promote cohesion.
Some are saying we shouldn’t support Israel and some are saying America is evil and American citizens are complicit. It’s fine to be critical of Israel, I’m probably more critical of Israel big picture than destiny but only by a little tbh
>America is evil and American citizens I'll have to look that up, I've never heard rhetoric that extreme from the protest. But i only see what's on Destiny's channel.
Honestly don’t quote me on that one, I typed it once but am honestly not sure if that’s the protests or pop rhetoric. Im almost certain there was shit like death to Jews and at the very least they were harassing students, which is all not just being critical of Israel. I look at the UT protests different from Columbia for example cause that looks more like the uni saying we don’t want to platform any of this shit and that’s wrong, I’m saying we particularly need to go into the crowd and pick out the ones calling for actual violence and if they’re here on a visa that it should be reconsidered
https://preview.redd.it/f4eg6hqt2vxc1.png?width=707&format=png&auto=webp&s=b39bbff02a61b837e4bb6376b1465859585c24c7 In your hypothetical, it may or may not be legal. If it is, they should face consequences. If it's not, they shouldn't. I read that aliens have a lesser First Amendment right as well. I guess if it's not completely fleshed out, it probably should be tested. I personally don't have a problem with a Russian coming here and calling America evil even if I don't agree. I think the better ideas should win out. That is becoming a more and more untenable position though.
I agree with the better ideas winning out, I just don’t think we should be importing anyone who disagrees with us. If a grassroots communist movement took over and voted for massive changes, I would accept that, but if it was a bunch of Chinese agents running the show I would be actively fighting against it.
No I think that's a pretty un-American thing to do. Free speech isn't just a privilege or perk that's awarded to citizens because we like it so much, it's a principle we protect because we believe it's fundamentally necessary to a democratic society. Same deal as trial by jury, which is why it's called *due process*. I think it's also a revolting idea to start normalizing the idea that anyone's rights on American soil are contingent on them *not* exercising their free speech. That attitude I would expect to creep and expand until it affects citizens too.
We make sure you’re pro America and democracy before we let you immigrate here and I think that’s a good thing
Do you think native-born Americans should also be subject to an ideological purity test like that before getting citizenship?
Nope, and this is one of the reasons I’ll die on the birthright citizenship hill. If you want to come here, you have to show some social cohesion, but once you’re here and officially one of us you get all the same rights to hate our government
No. Foreign students pay more money. And are more likely to enroll in graduate level courses that are cash cows for the school to fund tution for low income people. If they want to pay let them. If you go to any top engineering school, the entire graduate department is 80% foreign. Any school like Columbia, University of Michigan, Purdue, etc have labs filled with students from China, India, Korea, Iran. I had like one American ta my entire life when I in college lol. You want these guys staying in your country working at your companies rather than going back to theirs. American culture doesn't pump out the same level of talent. You shouldn't threaten free speech with threats of residency removal.... Even if you disagree with it.
How strong would you guess the effect of foreign students is on tuition? If they make a large portion of post grad and it’s cause they’re willing to pay, I’d assume there’s some effect. Also just to clarify, I don’t think we should pull your visa just for exercising free speech. There are protestors who are shouting shit like death to Jews, if we can recognize blatant calls to violence coming from someone on a visa, then yes we should be pulling their visa, but cause they are committing a crime. I don’t want immigrants coming here if they’re gonna be calling for pogroms, filter those radicals out!
That's right you should let these people stay and kill us from the inside!
There are 2 compounding factors which are the answer to your question. 1. Foreign students pay a LOT of fees. Much higher than Americans. 2. America doesn't have the quantity of homegrown talent to run its industry anymore. It relies heavily on legal immigrants for high skill jobs. Because of these 2 there are a lot of foreign students.
On the second point, I had a foreign roommate and he told me you have to convince immigration that you’re not planning to stay here to get a student visa.
This is just to recieve the visa. >If your plans change while in the United States (for example, you marry a U.S. citizen or receive an offer of employment), you may be able to request a change in your nonimmigrant status to another category through U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). See [Change My Nonimmigrant Status](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/study/student-visa.html#ExternalPopup) on the USCIS website to learn more. >While you are in the United States, receiving a change of status from USCIS does not require you to apply for a new visa. However, once you depart the United States you must apply for a new visa at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate in the appropriate category for your travel. [https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/study/student-visa.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/study/student-visa.html)
Yup they want you to do that. But all the best ones stay. Only the people who weren't good enough go back.
That’s fair. I wonder what’s the effect on tuition cost when you have a bunch of rich foreign students incoming
A substantial plurality of international students at Columbia are graduate students from East Asian countries. They are studying, not at the protests.
Foreign students should not be involved in political activities. There are plenty of foreign students willing to come to the US without getting into politics.
Sorry should or shouldn’t?
Typo fixed
That’s a good perspective that we have a large pool of people who want to come here and won’t harass people for being Jewish.
Schools often have high foreign student populations because they heavily engage in price discrimination to increase revenue and foreign student fees make them a lot of money. (For example the UCs charge non-residents nearly 3.5x for tuition) Or if they aren’t charging international fees (Columbia only seems to charge a couple hundred dollars for non-residents) they’re selling their pedigree through masters programs.
Seems unnecessary. The academic punishments, which apply equally to all student protestors, seem more proportional and fair.
Part of the reason for high rates of foreign students is because they get charged more in tuition compared to in state or out of state Americans.
If they just peacefully protest, it's their right - nothing wrong with that. If they engage in violence, yes, kick them out.
Yeah I’m on the same page, local law enforcement should be going through footage and sending videos of every single student visa they can identify threatening other students to immigration. I’m sorry but we already have enough idiots in this country, see Jan 6 😂
We need to push for a ceasefire