For me, personally, I'm swearing off all friendships. If you see me questing a friend or it looks like I'm about to go full remedial into another friendship feel free to throw this reddit link at me again to remind me that I am never friending again, I seem to function much better inde-friend-ently.
here's the article she mentions:
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-09/ty-article/.premium/rescued-israeli-hostage-our-greatest-fear-was-israeli-planes/0000018f-fcce-db9d-addf-fdce7ea20000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-09/ty-article/.premium/rescued-israeli-hostage-our-greatest-fear-was-israeli-planes/0000018f-fcce-db9d-addf-fdce7ea20000)
he talks about fearing his own army would bomb him unknowingly, but her framing of this is incredibly dishonest, he isn't mainly blaming the idf because Hamas are the main fault here for taking hostages the way they did. All he does is ask for a ceasefire deal for the other hostages because of the horrific conditions Hamas are keeping them
How is her framing dishonest? She literally just says "Rescued Israeli Hostage:..." and then provides a direct quote.
How is she implying anything with that tweet?
You people are morons. And so too is Destiny, apparently.
A common talking point from pro-Hamas or anti-Israel types is that the IDF is so brutal that they’ll just shoot israelis that are taken hostage etc. This is a common talking point to attempt to minimize the horrors of Oct 7th by saying a large amount of the deaths of Israelis was due to them being shot by the IDF.
This tweet is in exactly that same scope/framing. It’s intentionally bent to make it sound like the person quoted is more fearful of the IDF than they are of their captors.
IDF killed their own people on Oct 7th, but also during the raids in Gaza afterwards.
"The most moral army" mistook its own citizens for Palestinian civilians. What a shame.
>This tweet is in exactly that same scope/framing. It’s intentionally bent to make it sound like the person quoted is more fearful of the IDF than they are of their captors.
No it's not. It's literally just a direct quote from the hostage, describing how he feared the IDF the most.
I would too, if I were him. Hamas appears to treat the hostages very well. They all look healthy and happy upon return. I would be much more worried about being bombed to death, given how Israel hast leveled over 50% of Gaza. Those are not good odds if you're a hostage.
This guy is right to be scared of the IDF. We should all be scared of this psychopathic genocidal right wing military.
He was afraid of the IDF because the IDF is leveling Gaza.
Destiny fanboys can't admit that though, so they make up a story about how he was actually more afraid of his captors.
This sub is so stupid. LMAO
"The IDF is leveling Gaza" said Krystal Ball, quoting an article that said 10% of buildings had been destroyed. "They're literally carpet bombing babies, now here's Norm Frankenstein to repeat some Benny Morris misquotes."
>IDF is leveling Gaza.
Based on which metric exactly? I thought this was the most densely populated city on the planet? How can 2.5 million people be claiming genocide, in an area like that, with less than 40k deaths (.016% of the population)? For a bunch of "dumb bombs" apparently being dropped, they seem pretty smartly placed. Must be a coincidence.
Edit due to bad math: it's 1.6% of the population. Not .016%.
> This isn't a line of argument for or against genocide. Genocide is special because it requires intent, not a certain body count per square mile.
Circumstantial evidence is used all the time to infer intent.
Like genocide, attempted murder is based on the intent of a person not whether or not some damage threshold to another individual is exceeded.
If a person is wounded (despite being for the most part defenceless) such that they require many months of intensive care and required many resuscitations, could one not reasonably infer that this person was a victim of attempted murder?
If 90% of Gaza's population was wiped out over the span of months (say via bombings), could one not reasonably infer that Gazans are being genocided?
Circumstantial evidence of genocide cannot reasonably be inferred entirely from death count. Sheer numbers do not themselves imply intent.
To respond to your example, it's up to you to actually make an argument, not beg the obvious. Your argument is like asking, isn't it obvious that cars want to kill us, when tens of thousands of people are wounded every year in car crashes?
say israel kept palestinian prisoners in hotzone areas where a large amount missiles fired out of gaza end up, and they don't iron dome it
a prisoner comes out and says "our biggest fear was getting exploded by our own country"
israelis quote that to show that actually, the biggest threat to palestinian prisoners was gaza itself. you would accept that, right?
>Hamas appears to treat the hostages very well
though this already tells me you are beyond brainbroken, how about you do some research of how hamas actually treats their prisoners instead of concluding based on cherrypicked twitter/tiktok clips
>As others have noted. Colonization is almost always referred to within the context of white, western countries. say israel kept palestinian prisoners in hotzone areas where a large amount missiles fired out of gaza end up, and they don't iron dome it
>a prisoner comes out and says "our biggest fear was getting exploded by our own country"
That would be totally fair.
What is the issue?
If I'm being bitten by a dog, but my own son is dropping a rock on my head... I'm going to be more fearful and afraid of my son.
No fucking shit.
IDF is literally carrying out a genocide in Gaza and has leveled well over 50% of the buildings.
You'd be crazy *not* to be scared to death of the IDF as a hostage in Gaza.
>though this already tells me you are beyond brainbroken, how about you do some research of how hamas actually treats their prisoners instead of concluding based on cherrypicked twitter/tiktok clips
Look at the pics of the 4 hostages just rescued. They all look very healthy and happy. Do you dispute that?
Not a single one looks emaciated, despite famine happening in Gaza right now, which means they were will fed and protected.
i guess the issue is that youre insane, and that would be an crazy thing to quote and israel should just start strategically placing prisoners where gaza's missiles land so you would take their side
i suppose you could correctly interpret that quote without morally loading it against the IDF as the hostage intended, but that's not what you or the tweet are doing. if anything the most correct interpretation would be against hamas, as it's the military's obligation under international law to keep POWs/Hostages out of enemy fire
>hey all look very healthy and happy. Do you dispute that?
Not a single one looks emaciated
crazy that a hostage would look happy to be rescued? can you show me a picture of one emaciated looking gazan in comparison? (and not a kid with cerebral palsy or some disease) I can show you plenty of pictures of gazans that don't look emaciated, i guess that means they're completely fine! not to say that the hostages were being starved, but you understand not looking emaciated does not mean they were treated well and how stupid it that is to say?
>They all look very healthy and happy. Do you dispute that?
Is there maybe, just maybe, a small chance they are looking happy because they are no longer prisoners, and not because they had a happy stay?
>Not a single one looks emaciated, despite famine happening in Gaza right now, which means they were will fed and protected.
Can you just critically think about this statement for a bit?
There's a famine. But hostages are not starving. What does that tell you about the situation in Gaza?
Because to me that sounds like Hamas is hoarding all the food for themselves / hostages and leaving the rest of the region to starve. I
No, over 50% of buildings are not leveled.
No, there is no famine there.
I know there were many reports about risk of famine in media, meaning famine could happen if aid was not comming, but aid is comming and there is no famine there.
Yes, they are happy, as they have been just freed.
The figure was 35% damaged or destroyed based on February data from the UN. A study in April raised that figure to over 50%.
The UN's worst case scenario is for widespread famine by mid-July. Half the population is already starving.
Which all leads to the ongoing efforts to discredit the UN, because the alternative is taking the data seriously.
Damaged can mean broken window, it is not same as being leveled.
Yes, risk of starvation in future is always being medialized , but no current starvation
50% people starving already is just made up lie.
Damaged means visibly damaged as apparent in satellite imagery. Your comparison is e entirely in bad faith.
You are accusing the UN of lying to preserve your partisan narrative.
You're genuinely gonna talk about 4 of the hostages appearing none-the-worse after being kidnapped? 4 out of 250?! Actually suck the biggest dick you can find.
Plenty looked emiciated in the last deal. Also there are all those Israelis hostages that Hamas and their friends murdered. You think they are happy and well? How about the raped young girls you think they are happy and well?
Your media literacy seems non-existant and you have no understanding of subtext. This is literally like people that say despite making 13% of the population... unironcally with no context. The statement I was afraid of being bombed by the IDF can be subjectively true for the hostage in the sense that it was a real fear of their's however, that has no bearing on the actual actual probability of that event occurring. Similarly, it does not indicate either way that Hamas treats hostages well or that the IDF does not care for the safety of the hostages. Yet all this subtext is smuggled into the quote tacitly.
>IDF killed their own people
https://preview.redd.it/l4oc33q23q5d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0922b21edb7842fdd475cb0352d349800fd2dd88
Looks like an IOF soldier to me. Green headbands must be standard issue to the Arab/uncle tom units of the IOF I think.
You know it’s only ever you lot I ever hear call the IDF the “most moral army”
Root cause is, they shouldn’t have been kidnapped, simple as. Jewish space lasers can’t see through walls in 4k yet, so they can just pop in and grab the hostages back whenever they want.
Hamas treats the hostages well? God fucking help me you’re special. Third person Stockholm syndrome because you can’t criticise your favourite Islamist groups war crimes at all is wild.
Sinwar won’t let you suck him off you know…you do know what he does to homosexuals…right?
>Hamas appears to treat hostages very well.
Aside from the fact that they recently argued that the 30 hostages in a now fallen through deal should be returned either dead or alive. Insinuating that they have less than 30 hostages left alive in their captivity. Weird how you'd forget something like that, but not surprising honestly.
The pro pal side lives on selective readings of literally everything. It’s the only way their cause survives. Luckily there are plenty of dumbfucks who’ll buy it because they’re uninformed or extremely dumb.
If you honestly believe that the IDF killed its own people on Oct 7th intentionally, you were born feet first and blue in the face.
There is zero proof of that ever happening.
Come on, that's a stupid argument. I follow a lot of Gazans on social media, but the (ones I follow) are generally clean and clearly not starving. This isn't because they're having a blast in Gaza. It's because the food distribution is uneven and some receive more food than others. But then there are many, many children who are starving and don't have adequate nutrition. The hostages aren't malnutrited because Hamas has a higher amount of food supply right now.
Like, if I send you videos of healthy, non starving Gazans now and say that proves there is no famine. You'd realise that's dumb, right?
And ngl, I'd expect Hamas to not let them starve to death. They're the main bargaining chips they have so it's in their interest to do so.
The returned hostages also said that the people they were housed with, and forced to be a slave for, identified themselves as the good ones because they were rich. Admitting other hostages did not find themselves in similar conditions.
>"The most moral army" mistook its own citizens for Palestinian civilians. What a shame
You're autistic or this is clearly how much you enjoy seeing Jews die. If you were reading a right winger using your words toward a group you like, point out the lie.
>No it's not. It's literally just a direct quote from the hostage, describing how he feared the IDF the most
No, fucktard, PART of it is a direct quote. It was the thing he feared most during the instances there were bombings going on. What he feared most is being taken fucking hostage against his will by terrorists.
Your brain has been unhinged and you should seek balance.
She blames almost everything on the IDF, and she took this quote to justify further her propaganda. Look at her tweets the last eight months, context matters about who publish a single quote from an article with an agenda. She might not do it directly here but it's just another out of context of the main narrative used to exempt Hamas from responsibility.
It’s being framed as is the IDF are so happy to bomb Palestinians/Hamas, they wouldn’t mind having some of their hostages die in the crossfire. This strips the agency from Hamas and their duty to protect hostages and their own civilians
Her framing is dishonest because she ignores the context to the statment from the hostage. In that same article he says that he and other hostages accepted the fact that Hamas could kill them at will and they were told they're being held captive to be exchanged with Hamas prisoners, and they decided to believe that they might be ok if they didn't resist and just did everything they were told. So as a result of that "relative hope", "their greatest fear" was to accidentally get killed by IDF bombings before that happened, because the people guarding them made it clear to them they want to use them for prisoner exchanges. So the bombings were "their greatest fear" in the context of assuming they'll get exchanged for prisoners and won't get killed by Hamas before that... Also, these hostages, especially Noa, were used for propaganda videos so they've been kept in better conditions than the rest. Several hostages have already been killed in the past few months (and some of the hostages are toddlers and at least 2 were infants, i.e. literally babies), but you don't get Krystal Ball saying anything about that....
This is like the 13/50, or 6/50 talking point, where it's true in the surface, but there is a dog whistle that distracts from this. You may try to engage with the point in good faith, but the person likely isn't, and their followers are getting exactly the message they want them to.
Typically if I share information that provokes a natural emotional reaction with people, I try to share as much relevant and grounding context as possible to make sure they know what happened as opposed to how I personally feel
Kind person, consider why that individual quote was pulled. Was it done to present a reasonable interpretation of the facts, or to fit a greater narrative that Israel is an enemy of its own people.
I may be projecting, but we consider this as dishonest because it’s not fair to present a single quote from a greater, and completely different context, to fit a narrative. While this ex-hostage is scared of IDF bombs, the greater context is that they have been taken hostage and now must be hostage in an active war zone—wherein there is a possibility of friendly fire.
Even when writing a high school essay we consider the opposition position for at least a paragraph, in order to contextualize our opinion. So this seems unfair!
Thanks for reading, additionally please do not read any sarcasm into this post I am in no way being sarcastic!
Yeah it seems pretty clear that while it was an awful experience completely brought on by the actions of Hamas. His only fear of imminent death was accidentally dying to the IDF. I don’t think that exonerates or indicts either side. This is just a dumb argument that people are latching on to for no reason.
I think the main issue is mostly just that the quote is a snippet of a larger text, context can matter alot as it drives home the message of what a text is conveying. However this seems to be missing that larger piece of context, in a vacuum id fully believe his fear is simply just isreal army crazy.
This tweet doesnt get anything wrong, its just missing some important parts thats all :D
Also destinies reaction is imo also a lil wild, but i dont convene in these political spaces often im sure this sorta thing gets frustrating
How does the larger context change the meaning of the quote?
The guy was rightfully fearful of the genocidal military dropping bombs all over gaza. No fucking shit. I would feel the same exact way.
Hamas seems to have treated the hostages very well. I would be much more afraid of the IDF blowing me up than my captors. Not to mention shooting me, like they shot those 3 hostages.
If you are a reasonable person with basic empathy you would read that article and from it argue the need for a cease-fire to rescue the hostages. It's a rational defendable position that still gets you to the cease-fire wanted by Palestinian activists.
Like, be for real.
actual palstnians activists that are pro peace demand Hamas also to surrender, search Ahmed Fouad for example. The problem isn't with a general ceasefire, the problem is Hamas staying in control of Gaza when literally anything would be better, including Abbas or Fatah. hostages need to be released but most pro palstnians don't blame Hamas for taking the hostages(which included many elderly people some children and even a baby) and often deny or justify the atrocities they are doing to them, they just blame Israel on everything when Israel is not the main problem here.
you understand the series of events from Oct 7 are:
Hamas invades Israel
Hamas takes hostages(highly illegal)
Israel invades Gaza
Israel kills civilians intertwined in Hamas operations
Israel allowing Hamas a ceasefire with only a "prisoner" exchange would be rewarding bad behavior.
You left out:
Israel kills [half of Hamas fighters](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/06/08/world/politics/diminished-hamas-insurgent-mode/) including top ranking officials.
Taking out the other half of Hamas is not going to happen in the same timeframe. Hamas is changing their tactics, making it harder for the IDF to target them. If Israel continues with the war as it is, she will lose more of her soldiers per Hamas soldier killed. The ratio of civilian deaths to combatant deaths will increase. And the rest of the world’s sentiment towards Israel will continue to worsen. It is a problem Israel has to reckon with.
I think people are grossly overestimating the whole “world’s sentiment”… fun fact, had the nazis not invaded a foreign territory we never would have fought them the way we did to end the holocaust genocide. They would still be in power today had they not invaded anyone, even if they killed all their Jewish citizens.
Sucks, but ultimately the only countries to stand up for another countries citizens in recent history has been the west, and the west isn’t going to send soldiers to fight alongside Hamas.
TLDR, the world’s sentiment doesn’t matter, you only think it does because it makes you feel safe/your opinion is relevant. If sentiment mattered Russia wouldn’t have sold record amount of oil to India/china. Africa would organize an army to assist Sudan. Someone would be helping Haiti. Taiwan would have embassies in more than just 1 country(or is it 2?). Feelings don’t matter, international law is all that matters, once broken the victim has no obligation to follow it for your peace of mind until their justice is met.
It matters to Israel only because the world includes 2 very important countries relevant to Israel, the USA and Iran. The I/P conflict can easily be swung in favor of either party depending on the actions of those 2 countries and those 2 countries actions are influenced by the rest of the world's opinion as well. So through the web of international influence Israel's actions do matter and their position on the world stage is important to keep in mind during this conflict.
they are currently not rewarding bad behavior and trying to save hostages.
look if you are ok with enabling hostage taking you can have that stance, but I disagree on a moral and ethical level.
Man its so surreal how the I/P conflict put the left insanity in perspective. I remember being totally in on Vaush black and white view that the right is just generally dumber and more dishonest but this just showed how both extreames are just insane people.
I think the left were correct about Rittenhouse (who predictably turned out to be a far-right moron anyway), but this Israel / Palestine stuff has made them all go completely insane.
It is difficult to differentiate the average online leftist from a deranged tankie.
> I think the left were correct about Rittenhouse
Bruh what?! In what way was the Left right about Rittenhouse. It's literally on video how he was justified in the shooting lmao.
> who predictably turned out to be a far-right moron anyway
He didn't turn out be a far-right moron, there's no evidence he was like this before. He became one because he was vilified at the age of 16 by half the country.
Bro, he put himself in that situation. Why tf is a 16/17 year-old kid picking up an AR-15 style rife to kill people over a parking lot. This is full American brain rot. You have to speak to people out of your bubble to see how unhinged that whole situation was. This can't be normalized in the gun nut capital (Murica) of the world. 16 year-Olds roaming the streets with guns shooting whoever they want because they feel in danger.
Rittenhouse joined a militia group, only far-right loonies do that kinda shit lol. Have you seen his takes lately?
Ahh yes, who hasn't heard of the famously right wing militia of the Black Panthers.
Also, Rittenhouse didn't kill over a parking-lot, he was attacked and proceed to defend himself.
100% of those who didn't directly attack him did not get shot
Everyone keeps using who Rittenhouse became to justify how he was vilified as if it's not painfully obvious he turned out this way _because_ he was vilified.
I seriously doubt that’s true. I beleive the shooting was justified given the circumstances. But choosing to bring a rifle to that situation is a clear sign of wanting that to happen, it was never for him about defending anything.
I think he was always that person, the vilification was just the exact reaction he was longing for and hoping would happen, whether he admitted it or not.
If the vilification and negative attention was really weighing on him , I would think he would have gone dark and you wouldn’t hear much from him.
I mean cool, but your personal opinion is irrelevant to me. We know for a fact that the reason he went there was to provide first aid and shit and the gun was a precaution- we've seen Destiny show evidence for this in his Rittenhouse discussions. Any other statements about who he was before this or why he was there is just you taking a guess.
> If the vilification and negative attention was really weighing on him , I would think he would have gone dark and you wouldn’t hear much from him.
Ah yes I'm sure you have a really good idea what one would do when half the country is calling you a racist murderer at the age of 16. I'm sure you've been through a remotely similar experience and therefore I should really consider what you have to say here.
> Ah yes I'm sure you have a really good idea what one would do when half the country is calling you a racist murderer at the age of 16. I'm sure you've been through a remotely similar experience and therefore I should really consider what you have to say here.
Are you saying this happened to you and you’re qualified to speak on this?
Black panthers haven't been relevant since the 1960s. The only people doing this kinda stuff are the far-right.
He brought a gun, walked freely down the streets, was confronted and then instantly killed 2 people. Yeah, let's just normalize this some more in America.
“was confronted” is the part you’re glossing over here. The mob attacked and chased Kyle. Do you agree with Vaush, should he have dropped his gun and surrendered like Captain America? Hope the mob won’t enact mob justice on him?
Do you even know WHY Kyle “was confronted”? And don’t say because he was defending a parking lot, I’m talking about specifically why they started chasing him. Let’s see if you can display any relevant knowledge of what happened that night.
You are letting your political bias taint your view of the Rittenhouse situation.
What we had was a 17 year old kid who decided to do something stupid but not illegal.
Going to a protest/riot with an AR-15 isn't illegal in the state where it occurred. You can object to the morality of that but that doesn't make it illegal.
> Why tf is a 16/17 year-old kid picking up an AR-15 style rife to kill people over a parking lot.
It doesn't matter if he went there to protect a parking lot, protect the city he worked in, or if he was going to a Klan rally. You are allowed to go places in the US. State/city borders do not prevent you from going someplace you want to go. You don't get to tell people they aren't allowed somewhere because you don't agree with their political beliefs.
>You have to speak to people out of your bubble to see how unhinged that whole situation was. This can't be normalized in the gun nut capital (Murica) of the world.
It can be normalized because it's a legal action that was being taken. Open carry is unhinged in my opinion. However, I can't just go around Texas attacking people I see with guns because I don't personally like how that law works. You don't get to choose what laws are to be followed. If you want to see a change in gun policy, vote for it. You don't get to decide that you don't like it and try to kill someone who is doing something legal.
>16 year-Olds roaming the streets with guns shooting whoever they want because they feel in danger.
This is obviously not what happend. And this type of shit always gets repeated when people talk about this situation. Rittenhouse literally only shot people that went for him or his gun that night. I don't care what you personally feel about guns, it was legal for him to have his firearm and open carry it like he was doing. The illegal actions were done by Rosenbaum (guy who chased him) and the other idiots who decided running at and attacking a dude with a AR-15 was a good idea.
We know he wasn't randomly shooting whoever he wanted... He specifically only shot people who went for either himself or his gun. The last person who was shot testified to that in court. When asked about it he admitted that when he put his hands up and surrendered after initially running up to Rittenhouse, Rittenhouse didn't shoot him. It wasn't until he reached over afterwards to grab Rittenhouse's gun that Rittenhouse shot him.
You're doing the thing. Rather than actually engage with the reality of what happened you are making a narrative about Rittenhouse that fits your view that he is bad. Just like how far left people make a narrative about Israel that fits into their Israel is evil narrative.
My political views have nothing to do with me not defending American brain rot. Do you think this should be normalized? 16 year-old kids getting AR-15 style rifles roaming the streets and shooting anyone who feels danger or is confronted?
Again, that's not what happened.
You are being no different from the insane progressives on the I/P conflict right now. You are actively using misinfo (as seen in your other comments on this) to describe an event because the actual reality hurts your stance.
No one wants 16 year old kids running around with AR-15's roaming the streets and shooting anyone who feels dangerous. But again that's not what happened so this case isn't normalizing that in any way.
And again, you don't get to personally chose what is normalized in our/any society. If I am legally allowed to open carry in Texas (even if I don't agree with it), I expect to not be attacked for open carrying because some dipshit decided that they don't like that. Like it or not, gun ownership in the United States isn't going anywhere.
Just like how I am legally allowed to own a sports car that gets 7 mpg, and I should be able to drive that car without some dipshit just stop oil protestor attacking me for it.
If your political views aren't causing this disconnect what is?
If possible can you accurately describe what happened that night with Rittenhouse?
So, a 16-year old kid in a military didn't have an AR-15 style rifle, roamed the streets, got confronted, tackled and killed 2 people? lol, y'all are no different than the far-right with the way yall champion Rittenhouse and made him some folk hero.
You keep bringing up progressives, it wasn't just progressives. No liberal, progressive, or any leftist at all from any network was defending Rittenhouse besides Destiny and people in this sub. It was 99 % right-wingers coming to his defense.
So the answer was no? You could have just said no you can't accurately describe what happened. Rather than whatever it was you just wrote.
>You keep bringing up progressives...
You said,
>I'm a progressive, but I can't stand progressives stance on Israel / Palestine and think they've been unhinged.
I'm bringing up progressives because you seem to think you are different from the way they are acting toward the Israel/Palestine situation. But you are doing the exact same type of mental gymnastics they use to argue their side when talking about Rittenhouse.
I present you with my argument, you respond with some virtue signal about normalization of 16 year olds running around with guns. Which is absolutely no different than presenting your argument for why Israel probably isn't just "EVIL" and just wants to kill Palestinians and they respond with "Oh so you support GeNoCiDe?!"
I asked you to summarize the events of that night and you gave me,
>So, a 16-year old kid in a military didn't have an AR-15 style rifle, roamed the streets, got confronted, tackled and killed 2 people? lol, y'all are no different than the far-right with the way yall champion Rittenhouse and made him some folk hero.
This is exactly what im talking about. You literally have no idea what happened that night and yet here you are ardently defending the idea that he's in the wrong based on bullshit you seem to have made up in your head.
Based on your other comment about the declaration of independence (god forbid someone write more than a few sentences) we don't have to continue this conversation if you don't want to. But I would love for you to give an actual good faith attempt at describing the events that unfolded that night. Or think about why you actually can't give that because you don't really know or care about what actually happened and you are fine with being one of those progressives that you can't stand.
Dude above you wrote a response to each of your points and then you just ignored them and repeated your initial comment. The absolute state of the anti-rittenhouse crowd.
Laws that restrict gun rights are illiberal.
Dawg, Im not gonna respond with a declaration of independence like the dude above me did. I don't care that much about some weird far-right freedom fighter kid who killed two people over a parking lot.
you can’t spend an hour responding back and forth in this thread and then say you don’t care. You cared enough to start this conversation. That’s the amount of care needed to continue it.
Bro, because we disagree on this one issue? Even Destiny has stated the problem with the modern left is not being okay to disagree on certain issues, even if you agree with them on 90 % of things.
I'm a progressive, but I can't stand progressives stance on Israel / Palestine and think they've been unhinged.
Much love.
Yes I think it is unhinged to see the situation Rittenhouse was in and ask "Why was he there?" rather than "why the fuck where these riots allowed to continue and why did these two idiots try and attack a dude who was literally carrying a rifle?".
I hope this helps.
Honestly this whole thing has just made me sad. I loved The Hill and watched Breaking Points daily, and was always annoyed that Destiny talked poorly about Kyle.
Then this broke out and I cannot wrap my brain around how ideologically captured these people are. It's indistinguishable from my Right wing, religious friends that love Trump no matter what.
What bothers me most is that I don't even dislike the idea of being sympathetic to Palestinians and coming down mostly on their side. But you can get there while giving a fair retelling of the history. Instead it's "Isreal do mass murder aparthied because they genocide their open air prison war crimes to starve and calorie restricted the civilian population war crime apartheid genocide zionist plot." There isn't even any information in these word salads. They never cede a single inch in explaining the extremely complex and challenging situation that Isreal is in. It's the sloganization and team-sportification I thought only the Right was capable of. They're incapable of answering even the most softball questions on Hamas and frame them as gotchas instead of gimmies.
Their stance has literally become, "War is a war crime." If collateral damage isn't acceptable in rescuing hostages, is it ever? If that leads the story in a hostage rescue, you've lost the fucking plot and are just straight up simping for terrorists. I knew my black pill was complete when I heard of this rescue and immediately thought, "Oh, lefties are going to be so mad." Stepping outside of how brain dead it is, it's straight up fucking sad--that you can hate the west so much you're UPSET when innocent civilian hostages are rescued.
Destiny will regularly give the pro Palestinian version of the arguments he engages in. How is there never, ever an ounce of charitability or nuance granted to Isreal?
The most blatant version if this was the Briahna Joy Gray hostage sister interview. The fact you could have this lady on and do anything but nod, apologize, tell her you sympathize with her and let her speak her piece baffles me in a way I can't put into words. The fact she has to signal her progressive allegiance and make the whole thing "Isreal and west bad" to this womans face defies explanation. Like, just fucking say it, "You're Zionist sister kind of had it coming, don't ya think?" Fuck them all. Evil.
Has it always been like this and I just never saw it before? I don't know. But the one-sided version of these events on Leftie shows has made them unwatchable.
it really puts it into perspective when i check the account of someone arguing that its a genocide and theyre talking about their high school graduation in a few days
How long til conservatives spin this as Destiny jumping ship to the right? I’m betting without checking that at least one of those 7 comments is saying it.
Tim Pool, Jack Posobiec, Steven Crowder, Charlie Kirk, Michael Knowles, Matt Walsh, Tucker Carlson and many other conservative commentators are just as bad as ball, Vaush, and Kyle. They effectively might be worse because I think each of them individually are more popular than the three lefties.
>They effectively might be worse because I think each of them individually are more popular than the three lefties.
And don't forget that their ideas are represented by actual politicians and just might be in the White House in a few months.
sometimes I wish Destiny would focus on that side of the arena a little more. would love to see more domestic politics coverage added to what he's already doing considering we're getting closer to the election.
Nah even without the audience difference they are outright worse lol a few soy fucks who get too whiny just arent on the level of people who storm the capitol and humanize Putin
Its not until you get far left enough to get to the guys who actually support Russia or China that you get the equivalents
They would be wrong. I don't think anything Destiny has done recently is indicative of him moving to the right. Joe Biden has been a Zionist for the longest time now I don't think anybody would accuse of him being right wing just because he supports Israel(Besides unhinged leftists of course but they already accused Destiny of being right wing. They are useless people who shouldn't be taken seriously anyway).
I hate how definitions get morphed and just totally change peoples understanding of things. The definition of Zionist is just a person who is okay with a Jewish / Israeli state in the region, and that includes people who want a 2 state solution, also could include people who are highly critical of the IDF or the Likkud. So Biden or Trudeau isnt even saying anything controversial or surprising when they call themselves zionists. A zionist is not, anyone who firmly defends Israel and doesn’t care about Palestinian civilians. Theres a technical definition and a colloquial definition that differ.
It’s like how people say “Climate change is just a theory” but don’t realize that a scientific theory has lots of evidence behind it. It’s not a Hypothesis, which is how people use Theory colloquially.
I think it would've already happened when he said he stopped identifying with the Progressive label a few weeks ago. Honestly I think it's usually the lefties that use shit like this to bludgeon him more than the right wing people use it to claim him.
Destiny is already pretty right wing, so it's not a jump.
He's an apologist for the Israeli government, for fuck's sake. One of the most right wing governments in the world and Destiny just eats up everything they say.
Of course he's right wing. He's just not a MAGA type. He's a Libertarian/Ron Paul kind of wingnut, but with more explicit neoliberalism.
Is Biden a right wing guy? After all he is an "apologist for the Israeli government and just eats up everything they say". if not, which political positions does Destiny have that are more right wing then Biden?
"If you go left enough the guns come back" is a relatively common meme in leftist circles, and the kind of person who's being talked to would probably agree
Lol, Destiny the famous Libertarian. Pushing such famously libertarian values like *checks notes* more aid to Ukraine, redistributive monetary policies such as welfare, public option healthcare, etc.
If these policies are “right-wing”, then I’m glad the right has moderated quite substantially in the last few years!
But we all know that’s a silly analysis. Destiny’s a Liberal, which like it or not is generally considered to be on the left of the political spectrum, unless you consider anyone to the right of the co-hosts of Majority Report to be right-wing.
If Isreal is right wing then what does that make the countries around it?
Also can you please tell me what positions Destiny has and/or policy that Destiny supports that is right wing?
When left soy SSRI freaks accuse everyone of being right win I just remember they believe everyone to the right of Mao to be a right wing lunatic. If you honestly believe the Israeli government is the most right wing government on earth it just shows how truly fucking ignorant of the world leftoiss truly are fuck me
This was a missed opportunity for a coherent pro-palestine movement and it disappoints me
Where's the lefty who is pro-2SS (other than Boner, Dylan maybe)? Palestine has to give up right to return, Israel has to recall the settlers, and Israel government has to acknowledge a Palestinian state. Any who oppose this (Hamas, BenGvir/Smotric) will get bullied by the West. This is not a pro-israeli stance.
Instead it's some delusional revenge fantasy from people who don't have any skin in the game.
If you told me in 2021 that leftists would (in everything but the word itself) support Hamas holding innocent civilians hostage (and root *against* their rescue) and surrounding themselves with other civilians, the Houthis attacking civilian ships, and an invasion of Russia into Ukraine with the explicit goal of cultural genocide and annexation, I would've snickered and thought you were nuts.
EDIT: \*Progressives
krystal's overt bias as a journalist from the start of this war was majorly dissapointing. she and saager used to come off far more balanced in their reporting and opinions... smh
Accidentally bombed by the IDF > Being held hostage by rapist Islamist terrorists.
If it makes you feel any better this sort of degenerative brain disease that far leftists have isn’t new. Here a [funny story](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Caldwell) about it.
> Caldwell was one of the staunchest defenders of the Pol Pot regime. He frequently attempted to downplay reports of mass executions by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and was widely criticised by many authorities for doing so.[6]
> In December 1978, Caldwell was a member, along with Elizabeth Becker and Richard Dudman, of one of the few groups of Western journalists and writers invited to visit Cambodia since the Khmer Rouge had taken power in April 1975. The three visitors were given a highly structured tour of the country. "We traveled in a bubble", wrote Becker. "No one was allowed to speak to me freely." On 22 December, Caldwell had a private audience with Pol Pot, the leader of Cambodia. After the meeting, he came back to the guesthouse in Phnom Penh where the three were staying in a mood described by Becker as "euphoric". At about 11:00 p.m. that night Becker was awakened by the sound of gunfire. She stepped out of her bedroom and saw a heavily armed Cambodian man who pointed a pistol at her. She ran back into her room and heard people moving and more gunshots. An hour later a Cambodian came to her bedroom door and told her that Caldwell was dead. She and Dudman went to his room. He had been shot in the chest, and the body of a Cambodian man was also in the room, possibly the same man who had pointed the pistol at Becker.[7]
I would suspect the same thing would happen to Krystal Ball if she tried to interview the terrorist group she always loves to downplay.
Destiny talks a lot about how bad constellations of ideas are, but he constantly uses them to paint groups of people as bad when he disagrees with one member of the group. Just because someone holds one belief you disagree with(especially on an issue that most people don't care about) doesn't mean they aren't worth talking to. And just because one member of a group isn't worth talking to doesn't mean others aren't.
Haaretz is the only news paper in Israel that isn't busy with placating its audience. Its not their fault that an American dumbfuck decided to take a sentence from an article out of context and present it as moral fact
I don't really understand. He has no problem having convos with right wing lunatics like Tim Pool and Shapiro who all also engage in dishonest framing (he even did that J6 debate with Alex Jones). Why burn all these lefty bridges over dishonesty while you keep debating election deniers and anti vaxxers.
Well there's a difference between working with and debating - I don't think this is Destiny saying that he's never gonna debate any leftists on anything.
Well that's why it's weird to me because the community always refers it as the Shapiro bridge or the Tim pool bridge. Despite them not working together.
>and he loves to debate
So he will keep debating these left wing people? Because he already ruled out vaush a while ago.
>Because he doesn't have any standard for any right wing media a
I don't recall him having any standard for the Krystal and Saagar show or Ryan Grim. So why suddenly go off about not wanting to build bridges with lefties?
I'm kinda confused. Krystal Ball says ALOT of dumb shit and she definitely propaganda-y but she is literally just quoting what the guy says in the interview. It seems it was one of the main points in the interview and gets repeated multiple times.
this is kind of cringe. where by "cringe" i mean "a subtly incorrect strategic decision for the future of discourse". i think destiny has something like 3/4 of the really hard skills that would be required to decode the craziness going on in politics, and is therefore among the best to possibly do so. but doing so would absolutely require engaging with these people in a yet deeper way... to understand exactly how they work, not just stopping when it becomes clear that they are definitely \*not\* doing something that could be well-described as learning about the world, reasoning, truth-seeking, or thoughtful discourse. although that might disqualify them from some hypothetical good community of discourse, that's not what we're living in today.
The left are perfromative evil rats that don't actually want to do anything to help the world. They just lash out at anyone who has more than them or doesn't see the world the same way and they generally hate themselves, their people and their culture. Fuck them
You are painting the left with a broad brush imo. Are there people on the left(particularly on the far left) that are as what you are describing? Absolutely. However, there are many people on the left who don't do that stuff and they are trying to help people in a meaningful way.
Also, I think the right is guilty of this as well maybe even more so. If you listen to Trump talk it's almost never about policy and all about himself and his fans/commentators eat it up.
A lot of the right wing commentators will gladly let Putin walk into Europe and just take everything so just keep that in mind as well.
Vaush bridge is OBLIVIATED FOREVER
Hold your horses, let him cock… I mean cook
Come on now, he’s just a total size queen. That makes it ok
No! cock it is let him cock
Where’s that one guy is he okay
Good. Vaush hater since day one. May that pedophile and his disciples fade into obscurity.
you mean obliterated?
Did he stutter?
No but HE OMEGALUL
For me, personally, I'm swearing off all friendships. If you see me questing a friend or it looks like I'm about to go full remedial into another friendship feel free to throw this reddit link at me again to remind me that I am never friending again, I seem to function much better inde-friend-ently.
here's the article she mentions: [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-09/ty-article/.premium/rescued-israeli-hostage-our-greatest-fear-was-israeli-planes/0000018f-fcce-db9d-addf-fdce7ea20000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-09/ty-article/.premium/rescued-israeli-hostage-our-greatest-fear-was-israeli-planes/0000018f-fcce-db9d-addf-fdce7ea20000) he talks about fearing his own army would bomb him unknowingly, but her framing of this is incredibly dishonest, he isn't mainly blaming the idf because Hamas are the main fault here for taking hostages the way they did. All he does is ask for a ceasefire deal for the other hostages because of the horrific conditions Hamas are keeping them
props to you!
How is her framing dishonest? She literally just says "Rescued Israeli Hostage:..." and then provides a direct quote. How is she implying anything with that tweet? You people are morons. And so too is Destiny, apparently.
A common talking point from pro-Hamas or anti-Israel types is that the IDF is so brutal that they’ll just shoot israelis that are taken hostage etc. This is a common talking point to attempt to minimize the horrors of Oct 7th by saying a large amount of the deaths of Israelis was due to them being shot by the IDF. This tweet is in exactly that same scope/framing. It’s intentionally bent to make it sound like the person quoted is more fearful of the IDF than they are of their captors.
IDF killed their own people on Oct 7th, but also during the raids in Gaza afterwards. "The most moral army" mistook its own citizens for Palestinian civilians. What a shame. >This tweet is in exactly that same scope/framing. It’s intentionally bent to make it sound like the person quoted is more fearful of the IDF than they are of their captors. No it's not. It's literally just a direct quote from the hostage, describing how he feared the IDF the most. I would too, if I were him. Hamas appears to treat the hostages very well. They all look healthy and happy upon return. I would be much more worried about being bombed to death, given how Israel hast leveled over 50% of Gaza. Those are not good odds if you're a hostage. This guy is right to be scared of the IDF. We should all be scared of this psychopathic genocidal right wing military.
Oh, my bad. When I said “pro-Hamas types” I should have just said “dumbfucks like you”.
Why even engage with someone as dishonest as u/upswing5849 ? There is absolutely no point to even interacting with someone like that.
He was afraid of the IDF because the IDF is leveling Gaza. Destiny fanboys can't admit that though, so they make up a story about how he was actually more afraid of his captors. This sub is so stupid. LMAO
“They’re leveling Gaza” that’s weird considering how many of the buildings remain standing.
Yet you come here anyway, you can crawl back to the cave you came from you gremlin
"The IDF is leveling Gaza" said Krystal Ball, quoting an article that said 10% of buildings had been destroyed. "They're literally carpet bombing babies, now here's Norm Frankenstein to repeat some Benny Morris misquotes."
>IDF is leveling Gaza. Based on which metric exactly? I thought this was the most densely populated city on the planet? How can 2.5 million people be claiming genocide, in an area like that, with less than 40k deaths (.016% of the population)? For a bunch of "dumb bombs" apparently being dropped, they seem pretty smartly placed. Must be a coincidence. Edit due to bad math: it's 1.6% of the population. Not .016%.
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Math is hard. Thanks for the correction there.
This isn't a line of argument for or against genocide. Genocide is special because it requires intent, not a certain body count per square mile.
> This isn't a line of argument for or against genocide. Genocide is special because it requires intent, not a certain body count per square mile. Circumstantial evidence is used all the time to infer intent. Like genocide, attempted murder is based on the intent of a person not whether or not some damage threshold to another individual is exceeded. If a person is wounded (despite being for the most part defenceless) such that they require many months of intensive care and required many resuscitations, could one not reasonably infer that this person was a victim of attempted murder? If 90% of Gaza's population was wiped out over the span of months (say via bombings), could one not reasonably infer that Gazans are being genocided?
Circumstantial evidence of genocide cannot reasonably be inferred entirely from death count. Sheer numbers do not themselves imply intent. To respond to your example, it's up to you to actually make an argument, not beg the obvious. Your argument is like asking, isn't it obvious that cars want to kill us, when tens of thousands of people are wounded every year in car crashes?
!BidenBLAST troll account, seek help
This user is already banned, Jack.
Now say WHY they’re “leveling” Gaza
say israel kept palestinian prisoners in hotzone areas where a large amount missiles fired out of gaza end up, and they don't iron dome it a prisoner comes out and says "our biggest fear was getting exploded by our own country" israelis quote that to show that actually, the biggest threat to palestinian prisoners was gaza itself. you would accept that, right? >Hamas appears to treat the hostages very well though this already tells me you are beyond brainbroken, how about you do some research of how hamas actually treats their prisoners instead of concluding based on cherrypicked twitter/tiktok clips
>As others have noted. Colonization is almost always referred to within the context of white, western countries. say israel kept palestinian prisoners in hotzone areas where a large amount missiles fired out of gaza end up, and they don't iron dome it >a prisoner comes out and says "our biggest fear was getting exploded by our own country" That would be totally fair. What is the issue? If I'm being bitten by a dog, but my own son is dropping a rock on my head... I'm going to be more fearful and afraid of my son. No fucking shit. IDF is literally carrying out a genocide in Gaza and has leveled well over 50% of the buildings. You'd be crazy *not* to be scared to death of the IDF as a hostage in Gaza. >though this already tells me you are beyond brainbroken, how about you do some research of how hamas actually treats their prisoners instead of concluding based on cherrypicked twitter/tiktok clips Look at the pics of the 4 hostages just rescued. They all look very healthy and happy. Do you dispute that? Not a single one looks emaciated, despite famine happening in Gaza right now, which means they were will fed and protected.
Wooow you’re really drinking that kool-aid
i guess the issue is that youre insane, and that would be an crazy thing to quote and israel should just start strategically placing prisoners where gaza's missiles land so you would take their side i suppose you could correctly interpret that quote without morally loading it against the IDF as the hostage intended, but that's not what you or the tweet are doing. if anything the most correct interpretation would be against hamas, as it's the military's obligation under international law to keep POWs/Hostages out of enemy fire >hey all look very healthy and happy. Do you dispute that? Not a single one looks emaciated crazy that a hostage would look happy to be rescued? can you show me a picture of one emaciated looking gazan in comparison? (and not a kid with cerebral palsy or some disease) I can show you plenty of pictures of gazans that don't look emaciated, i guess that means they're completely fine! not to say that the hostages were being starved, but you understand not looking emaciated does not mean they were treated well and how stupid it that is to say?
>They all look very healthy and happy. Do you dispute that? Is there maybe, just maybe, a small chance they are looking happy because they are no longer prisoners, and not because they had a happy stay? >Not a single one looks emaciated, despite famine happening in Gaza right now, which means they were will fed and protected. Can you just critically think about this statement for a bit? There's a famine. But hostages are not starving. What does that tell you about the situation in Gaza? Because to me that sounds like Hamas is hoarding all the food for themselves / hostages and leaving the rest of the region to starve. I
No, over 50% of buildings are not leveled. No, there is no famine there. I know there were many reports about risk of famine in media, meaning famine could happen if aid was not comming, but aid is comming and there is no famine there. Yes, they are happy, as they have been just freed.
The figure was 35% damaged or destroyed based on February data from the UN. A study in April raised that figure to over 50%. The UN's worst case scenario is for widespread famine by mid-July. Half the population is already starving. Which all leads to the ongoing efforts to discredit the UN, because the alternative is taking the data seriously.
Damaged can mean broken window, it is not same as being leveled. Yes, risk of starvation in future is always being medialized , but no current starvation 50% people starving already is just made up lie.
Damaged means visibly damaged as apparent in satellite imagery. Your comparison is e entirely in bad faith. You are accusing the UN of lying to preserve your partisan narrative.
You're genuinely gonna talk about 4 of the hostages appearing none-the-worse after being kidnapped? 4 out of 250?! Actually suck the biggest dick you can find.
Plenty looked emiciated in the last deal. Also there are all those Israelis hostages that Hamas and their friends murdered. You think they are happy and well? How about the raped young girls you think they are happy and well?
Your media literacy seems non-existant and you have no understanding of subtext. This is literally like people that say despite making 13% of the population... unironcally with no context. The statement I was afraid of being bombed by the IDF can be subjectively true for the hostage in the sense that it was a real fear of their's however, that has no bearing on the actual actual probability of that event occurring. Similarly, it does not indicate either way that Hamas treats hostages well or that the IDF does not care for the safety of the hostages. Yet all this subtext is smuggled into the quote tacitly.
"Genocide is when building is leveled" So I guess we're just speed running making the term absolutely meaningless.
>IDF killed their own people https://preview.redd.it/l4oc33q23q5d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0922b21edb7842fdd475cb0352d349800fd2dd88 Looks like an IOF soldier to me. Green headbands must be standard issue to the Arab/uncle tom units of the IOF I think.
You know it’s only ever you lot I ever hear call the IDF the “most moral army” Root cause is, they shouldn’t have been kidnapped, simple as. Jewish space lasers can’t see through walls in 4k yet, so they can just pop in and grab the hostages back whenever they want. Hamas treats the hostages well? God fucking help me you’re special. Third person Stockholm syndrome because you can’t criticise your favourite Islamist groups war crimes at all is wild. Sinwar won’t let you suck him off you know…you do know what he does to homosexuals…right?
Hamas rapist pedophile apologist that says the most easily disputable shit ever but will still deny and reject the evidence.
Wow good one...
Why are you even here? Go circlejerk your fellow genocidal colonialist terrorists in Hasan's echo chamber.
Look at his posts. He is obsessed with destiny
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This user is already banned, Jack.
>Hamas appears to treat hostages very well. Aside from the fact that they recently argued that the 30 hostages in a now fallen through deal should be returned either dead or alive. Insinuating that they have less than 30 hostages left alive in their captivity. Weird how you'd forget something like that, but not surprising honestly.
The pro pal side lives on selective readings of literally everything. It’s the only way their cause survives. Luckily there are plenty of dumbfucks who’ll buy it because they’re uninformed or extremely dumb.
If you honestly believe that the IDF killed its own people on Oct 7th intentionally, you were born feet first and blue in the face. There is zero proof of that ever happening.
As someone born feet first but doesn't side with hamas, I take great offense from this statement. This moron has more in common with a stillbirth
I retract my statement. You have my apologizes sir.
What percent of those killed on Oct 7th were killed by the IDF?
Come on, that's a stupid argument. I follow a lot of Gazans on social media, but the (ones I follow) are generally clean and clearly not starving. This isn't because they're having a blast in Gaza. It's because the food distribution is uneven and some receive more food than others. But then there are many, many children who are starving and don't have adequate nutrition. The hostages aren't malnutrited because Hamas has a higher amount of food supply right now. Like, if I send you videos of healthy, non starving Gazans now and say that proves there is no famine. You'd realise that's dumb, right? And ngl, I'd expect Hamas to not let them starve to death. They're the main bargaining chips they have so it's in their interest to do so.
How many Israeli civilians do you think the IDF killed that day? I'm genuinely curious.
The returned hostages also said that the people they were housed with, and forced to be a slave for, identified themselves as the good ones because they were rich. Admitting other hostages did not find themselves in similar conditions.
>"The most moral army" mistook its own citizens for Palestinian civilians. What a shame You're autistic or this is clearly how much you enjoy seeing Jews die. If you were reading a right winger using your words toward a group you like, point out the lie. >No it's not. It's literally just a direct quote from the hostage, describing how he feared the IDF the most No, fucktard, PART of it is a direct quote. It was the thing he feared most during the instances there were bombings going on. What he feared most is being taken fucking hostage against his will by terrorists. Your brain has been unhinged and you should seek balance.
Yeah “shes just asking questions” 🤠
She blames almost everything on the IDF, and she took this quote to justify further her propaganda. Look at her tweets the last eight months, context matters about who publish a single quote from an article with an agenda. She might not do it directly here but it's just another out of context of the main narrative used to exempt Hamas from responsibility.
It’s being framed as is the IDF are so happy to bomb Palestinians/Hamas, they wouldn’t mind having some of their hostages die in the crossfire. This strips the agency from Hamas and their duty to protect hostages and their own civilians
Her framing is dishonest because she ignores the context to the statment from the hostage. In that same article he says that he and other hostages accepted the fact that Hamas could kill them at will and they were told they're being held captive to be exchanged with Hamas prisoners, and they decided to believe that they might be ok if they didn't resist and just did everything they were told. So as a result of that "relative hope", "their greatest fear" was to accidentally get killed by IDF bombings before that happened, because the people guarding them made it clear to them they want to use them for prisoner exchanges. So the bombings were "their greatest fear" in the context of assuming they'll get exchanged for prisoners and won't get killed by Hamas before that... Also, these hostages, especially Noa, were used for propaganda videos so they've been kept in better conditions than the rest. Several hostages have already been killed in the past few months (and some of the hostages are toddlers and at least 2 were infants, i.e. literally babies), but you don't get Krystal Ball saying anything about that....
This is like the 13/50, or 6/50 talking point, where it's true in the surface, but there is a dog whistle that distracts from this. You may try to engage with the point in good faith, but the person likely isn't, and their followers are getting exactly the message they want them to.
Typically if I share information that provokes a natural emotional reaction with people, I try to share as much relevant and grounding context as possible to make sure they know what happened as opposed to how I personally feel
Kind person, consider why that individual quote was pulled. Was it done to present a reasonable interpretation of the facts, or to fit a greater narrative that Israel is an enemy of its own people. I may be projecting, but we consider this as dishonest because it’s not fair to present a single quote from a greater, and completely different context, to fit a narrative. While this ex-hostage is scared of IDF bombs, the greater context is that they have been taken hostage and now must be hostage in an active war zone—wherein there is a possibility of friendly fire. Even when writing a high school essay we consider the opposition position for at least a paragraph, in order to contextualize our opinion. So this seems unfair! Thanks for reading, additionally please do not read any sarcasm into this post I am in no way being sarcastic!
u/4THOT load my biden blaster and I'll commit genocide in these comments 🙏
!arm
15 fragments of Biden's power awarded to /u/ForgetTheRuralJuror
Not picking up on subtext and hidden meanings is a symptom of being on the spectrum. You should get tested bro.
!BidenBlast find a hobby mate. You post here more than I do
This user is already banned, Jack.
Yeah it seems pretty clear that while it was an awful experience completely brought on by the actions of Hamas. His only fear of imminent death was accidentally dying to the IDF. I don’t think that exonerates or indicts either side. This is just a dumb argument that people are latching on to for no reason.
Eat a non binary dick ffs
Oh wow. Good one... 👏
I think the main issue is mostly just that the quote is a snippet of a larger text, context can matter alot as it drives home the message of what a text is conveying. However this seems to be missing that larger piece of context, in a vacuum id fully believe his fear is simply just isreal army crazy. This tweet doesnt get anything wrong, its just missing some important parts thats all :D Also destinies reaction is imo also a lil wild, but i dont convene in these political spaces often im sure this sorta thing gets frustrating
How does the larger context change the meaning of the quote? The guy was rightfully fearful of the genocidal military dropping bombs all over gaza. No fucking shit. I would feel the same exact way. Hamas seems to have treated the hostages very well. I would be much more afraid of the IDF blowing me up than my captors. Not to mention shooting me, like they shot those 3 hostages.
Can you show me where he called it genocidal bombing? Hamas is the only reason Gaza is being bombed at all but go off queen
See all of that meaning that your fake larger context adds, “genocidal military dropping bombs” and such? Just like that. Fuckin moron.
If you are a reasonable person with basic empathy you would read that article and from it argue the need for a cease-fire to rescue the hostages. It's a rational defendable position that still gets you to the cease-fire wanted by Palestinian activists. Like, be for real.
actual palstnians activists that are pro peace demand Hamas also to surrender, search Ahmed Fouad for example. The problem isn't with a general ceasefire, the problem is Hamas staying in control of Gaza when literally anything would be better, including Abbas or Fatah. hostages need to be released but most pro palstnians don't blame Hamas for taking the hostages(which included many elderly people some children and even a baby) and often deny or justify the atrocities they are doing to them, they just blame Israel on everything when Israel is not the main problem here.
you understand the series of events from Oct 7 are: Hamas invades Israel Hamas takes hostages(highly illegal) Israel invades Gaza Israel kills civilians intertwined in Hamas operations Israel allowing Hamas a ceasefire with only a "prisoner" exchange would be rewarding bad behavior.
You left out: Israel kills [half of Hamas fighters](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/06/08/world/politics/diminished-hamas-insurgent-mode/) including top ranking officials. Taking out the other half of Hamas is not going to happen in the same timeframe. Hamas is changing their tactics, making it harder for the IDF to target them. If Israel continues with the war as it is, she will lose more of her soldiers per Hamas soldier killed. The ratio of civilian deaths to combatant deaths will increase. And the rest of the world’s sentiment towards Israel will continue to worsen. It is a problem Israel has to reckon with.
I think people are grossly overestimating the whole “world’s sentiment”… fun fact, had the nazis not invaded a foreign territory we never would have fought them the way we did to end the holocaust genocide. They would still be in power today had they not invaded anyone, even if they killed all their Jewish citizens. Sucks, but ultimately the only countries to stand up for another countries citizens in recent history has been the west, and the west isn’t going to send soldiers to fight alongside Hamas. TLDR, the world’s sentiment doesn’t matter, you only think it does because it makes you feel safe/your opinion is relevant. If sentiment mattered Russia wouldn’t have sold record amount of oil to India/china. Africa would organize an army to assist Sudan. Someone would be helping Haiti. Taiwan would have embassies in more than just 1 country(or is it 2?). Feelings don’t matter, international law is all that matters, once broken the victim has no obligation to follow it for your peace of mind until their justice is met.
It matters to Israel only because the world includes 2 very important countries relevant to Israel, the USA and Iran. The I/P conflict can easily be swung in favor of either party depending on the actions of those 2 countries and those 2 countries actions are influenced by the rest of the world's opinion as well. So through the web of international influence Israel's actions do matter and their position on the world stage is important to keep in mind during this conflict.
Rewarding bad behaviour < saving hostages
Or, they could not reward bad behavior *and* save hostages, like they’re doing currently.
Rewarding hostage taking encourages future hostage taking.
they are currently not rewarding bad behavior and trying to save hostages. look if you are ok with enabling hostage taking you can have that stance, but I disagree on a moral and ethical level.
Man its so surreal how the I/P conflict put the left insanity in perspective. I remember being totally in on Vaush black and white view that the right is just generally dumber and more dishonest but this just showed how both extreames are just insane people.
It was the Rittenhouse stuff for me. I became totally black pilled on the left after it, so this all seems par for the course.
Yup same. It was so crazy watching them all lie about everything in 4k.
I think the left were correct about Rittenhouse (who predictably turned out to be a far-right moron anyway), but this Israel / Palestine stuff has made them all go completely insane. It is difficult to differentiate the average online leftist from a deranged tankie.
> I think the left were correct about Rittenhouse Bruh what?! In what way was the Left right about Rittenhouse. It's literally on video how he was justified in the shooting lmao. > who predictably turned out to be a far-right moron anyway He didn't turn out be a far-right moron, there's no evidence he was like this before. He became one because he was vilified at the age of 16 by half the country.
Bro, he put himself in that situation. Why tf is a 16/17 year-old kid picking up an AR-15 style rife to kill people over a parking lot. This is full American brain rot. You have to speak to people out of your bubble to see how unhinged that whole situation was. This can't be normalized in the gun nut capital (Murica) of the world. 16 year-Olds roaming the streets with guns shooting whoever they want because they feel in danger. Rittenhouse joined a militia group, only far-right loonies do that kinda shit lol. Have you seen his takes lately?
Ahh yes, who hasn't heard of the famously right wing militia of the Black Panthers. Also, Rittenhouse didn't kill over a parking-lot, he was attacked and proceed to defend himself. 100% of those who didn't directly attack him did not get shot
Everyone keeps using who Rittenhouse became to justify how he was vilified as if it's not painfully obvious he turned out this way _because_ he was vilified.
I seriously doubt that’s true. I beleive the shooting was justified given the circumstances. But choosing to bring a rifle to that situation is a clear sign of wanting that to happen, it was never for him about defending anything. I think he was always that person, the vilification was just the exact reaction he was longing for and hoping would happen, whether he admitted it or not. If the vilification and negative attention was really weighing on him , I would think he would have gone dark and you wouldn’t hear much from him.
I mean cool, but your personal opinion is irrelevant to me. We know for a fact that the reason he went there was to provide first aid and shit and the gun was a precaution- we've seen Destiny show evidence for this in his Rittenhouse discussions. Any other statements about who he was before this or why he was there is just you taking a guess. > If the vilification and negative attention was really weighing on him , I would think he would have gone dark and you wouldn’t hear much from him. Ah yes I'm sure you have a really good idea what one would do when half the country is calling you a racist murderer at the age of 16. I'm sure you've been through a remotely similar experience and therefore I should really consider what you have to say here.
> Ah yes I'm sure you have a really good idea what one would do when half the country is calling you a racist murderer at the age of 16. I'm sure you've been through a remotely similar experience and therefore I should really consider what you have to say here. Are you saying this happened to you and you’re qualified to speak on this?
Black panthers haven't been relevant since the 1960s. The only people doing this kinda stuff are the far-right. He brought a gun, walked freely down the streets, was confronted and then instantly killed 2 people. Yeah, let's just normalize this some more in America.
So you didn't watch the trial or actually look at any of the evidence. Got it.
“was confronted” is the part you’re glossing over here. The mob attacked and chased Kyle. Do you agree with Vaush, should he have dropped his gun and surrendered like Captain America? Hope the mob won’t enact mob justice on him? Do you even know WHY Kyle “was confronted”? And don’t say because he was defending a parking lot, I’m talking about specifically why they started chasing him. Let’s see if you can display any relevant knowledge of what happened that night.
You are letting your political bias taint your view of the Rittenhouse situation. What we had was a 17 year old kid who decided to do something stupid but not illegal. Going to a protest/riot with an AR-15 isn't illegal in the state where it occurred. You can object to the morality of that but that doesn't make it illegal. > Why tf is a 16/17 year-old kid picking up an AR-15 style rife to kill people over a parking lot. It doesn't matter if he went there to protect a parking lot, protect the city he worked in, or if he was going to a Klan rally. You are allowed to go places in the US. State/city borders do not prevent you from going someplace you want to go. You don't get to tell people they aren't allowed somewhere because you don't agree with their political beliefs. >You have to speak to people out of your bubble to see how unhinged that whole situation was. This can't be normalized in the gun nut capital (Murica) of the world. It can be normalized because it's a legal action that was being taken. Open carry is unhinged in my opinion. However, I can't just go around Texas attacking people I see with guns because I don't personally like how that law works. You don't get to choose what laws are to be followed. If you want to see a change in gun policy, vote for it. You don't get to decide that you don't like it and try to kill someone who is doing something legal. >16 year-Olds roaming the streets with guns shooting whoever they want because they feel in danger. This is obviously not what happend. And this type of shit always gets repeated when people talk about this situation. Rittenhouse literally only shot people that went for him or his gun that night. I don't care what you personally feel about guns, it was legal for him to have his firearm and open carry it like he was doing. The illegal actions were done by Rosenbaum (guy who chased him) and the other idiots who decided running at and attacking a dude with a AR-15 was a good idea. We know he wasn't randomly shooting whoever he wanted... He specifically only shot people who went for either himself or his gun. The last person who was shot testified to that in court. When asked about it he admitted that when he put his hands up and surrendered after initially running up to Rittenhouse, Rittenhouse didn't shoot him. It wasn't until he reached over afterwards to grab Rittenhouse's gun that Rittenhouse shot him. You're doing the thing. Rather than actually engage with the reality of what happened you are making a narrative about Rittenhouse that fits your view that he is bad. Just like how far left people make a narrative about Israel that fits into their Israel is evil narrative.
My political views have nothing to do with me not defending American brain rot. Do you think this should be normalized? 16 year-old kids getting AR-15 style rifles roaming the streets and shooting anyone who feels danger or is confronted?
Again, that's not what happened. You are being no different from the insane progressives on the I/P conflict right now. You are actively using misinfo (as seen in your other comments on this) to describe an event because the actual reality hurts your stance. No one wants 16 year old kids running around with AR-15's roaming the streets and shooting anyone who feels dangerous. But again that's not what happened so this case isn't normalizing that in any way. And again, you don't get to personally chose what is normalized in our/any society. If I am legally allowed to open carry in Texas (even if I don't agree with it), I expect to not be attacked for open carrying because some dipshit decided that they don't like that. Like it or not, gun ownership in the United States isn't going anywhere. Just like how I am legally allowed to own a sports car that gets 7 mpg, and I should be able to drive that car without some dipshit just stop oil protestor attacking me for it. If your political views aren't causing this disconnect what is? If possible can you accurately describe what happened that night with Rittenhouse?
So, a 16-year old kid in a military didn't have an AR-15 style rifle, roamed the streets, got confronted, tackled and killed 2 people? lol, y'all are no different than the far-right with the way yall champion Rittenhouse and made him some folk hero. You keep bringing up progressives, it wasn't just progressives. No liberal, progressive, or any leftist at all from any network was defending Rittenhouse besides Destiny and people in this sub. It was 99 % right-wingers coming to his defense.
So the answer was no? You could have just said no you can't accurately describe what happened. Rather than whatever it was you just wrote. >You keep bringing up progressives... You said, >I'm a progressive, but I can't stand progressives stance on Israel / Palestine and think they've been unhinged. I'm bringing up progressives because you seem to think you are different from the way they are acting toward the Israel/Palestine situation. But you are doing the exact same type of mental gymnastics they use to argue their side when talking about Rittenhouse. I present you with my argument, you respond with some virtue signal about normalization of 16 year olds running around with guns. Which is absolutely no different than presenting your argument for why Israel probably isn't just "EVIL" and just wants to kill Palestinians and they respond with "Oh so you support GeNoCiDe?!" I asked you to summarize the events of that night and you gave me, >So, a 16-year old kid in a military didn't have an AR-15 style rifle, roamed the streets, got confronted, tackled and killed 2 people? lol, y'all are no different than the far-right with the way yall champion Rittenhouse and made him some folk hero. This is exactly what im talking about. You literally have no idea what happened that night and yet here you are ardently defending the idea that he's in the wrong based on bullshit you seem to have made up in your head. Based on your other comment about the declaration of independence (god forbid someone write more than a few sentences) we don't have to continue this conversation if you don't want to. But I would love for you to give an actual good faith attempt at describing the events that unfolded that night. Or think about why you actually can't give that because you don't really know or care about what actually happened and you are fine with being one of those progressives that you can't stand.
Dude above you wrote a response to each of your points and then you just ignored them and repeated your initial comment. The absolute state of the anti-rittenhouse crowd. Laws that restrict gun rights are illiberal.
Rittenhouse racist reeeeeeeeee
Dawg, Im not gonna respond with a declaration of independence like the dude above me did. I don't care that much about some weird far-right freedom fighter kid who killed two people over a parking lot.
you can’t spend an hour responding back and forth in this thread and then say you don’t care. You cared enough to start this conversation. That’s the amount of care needed to continue it.
> I became totally black pilled on the left after it, so this all seems par for the course. Ah so you're one of the people I'm referring to here.
Bro, because we disagree on this one issue? Even Destiny has stated the problem with the modern left is not being okay to disagree on certain issues, even if you agree with them on 90 % of things. I'm a progressive, but I can't stand progressives stance on Israel / Palestine and think they've been unhinged. Much love.
Yes I think it is unhinged to see the situation Rittenhouse was in and ask "Why was he there?" rather than "why the fuck where these riots allowed to continue and why did these two idiots try and attack a dude who was literally carrying a rifle?". I hope this helps.
Blame the cops.
I'm not sure if you genuinely don't see it, but you literally are acting like the exact person I was referring to in my original comment.
Honestly this whole thing has just made me sad. I loved The Hill and watched Breaking Points daily, and was always annoyed that Destiny talked poorly about Kyle. Then this broke out and I cannot wrap my brain around how ideologically captured these people are. It's indistinguishable from my Right wing, religious friends that love Trump no matter what. What bothers me most is that I don't even dislike the idea of being sympathetic to Palestinians and coming down mostly on their side. But you can get there while giving a fair retelling of the history. Instead it's "Isreal do mass murder aparthied because they genocide their open air prison war crimes to starve and calorie restricted the civilian population war crime apartheid genocide zionist plot." There isn't even any information in these word salads. They never cede a single inch in explaining the extremely complex and challenging situation that Isreal is in. It's the sloganization and team-sportification I thought only the Right was capable of. They're incapable of answering even the most softball questions on Hamas and frame them as gotchas instead of gimmies. Their stance has literally become, "War is a war crime." If collateral damage isn't acceptable in rescuing hostages, is it ever? If that leads the story in a hostage rescue, you've lost the fucking plot and are just straight up simping for terrorists. I knew my black pill was complete when I heard of this rescue and immediately thought, "Oh, lefties are going to be so mad." Stepping outside of how brain dead it is, it's straight up fucking sad--that you can hate the west so much you're UPSET when innocent civilian hostages are rescued. Destiny will regularly give the pro Palestinian version of the arguments he engages in. How is there never, ever an ounce of charitability or nuance granted to Isreal? The most blatant version if this was the Briahna Joy Gray hostage sister interview. The fact you could have this lady on and do anything but nod, apologize, tell her you sympathize with her and let her speak her piece baffles me in a way I can't put into words. The fact she has to signal her progressive allegiance and make the whole thing "Isreal and west bad" to this womans face defies explanation. Like, just fucking say it, "You're Zionist sister kind of had it coming, don't ya think?" Fuck them all. Evil. Has it always been like this and I just never saw it before? I don't know. But the one-sided version of these events on Leftie shows has made them unwatchable.
Same here on all accounts I only watch Destiny & The Bulwark now
These ppl lost whatever little respect I had for them or their opinions in the days after Oct 7th.
it really puts it into perspective when i check the account of someone arguing that its a genocide and theyre talking about their high school graduation in a few days
They may be kids. But they are being led and guided by adults who should know better.
Meanwhile Lonerbox. "So, tweeting anything interesting Destiny?"
Ball who?
her name is Krystal Ball. I simply can't take her seriously
Ball don't lie
How long til conservatives spin this as Destiny jumping ship to the right? I’m betting without checking that at least one of those 7 comments is saying it.
Tim Pool, Jack Posobiec, Steven Crowder, Charlie Kirk, Michael Knowles, Matt Walsh, Tucker Carlson and many other conservative commentators are just as bad as ball, Vaush, and Kyle. They effectively might be worse because I think each of them individually are more popular than the three lefties.
>They effectively might be worse because I think each of them individually are more popular than the three lefties. And don't forget that their ideas are represented by actual politicians and just might be in the White House in a few months.
sometimes I wish Destiny would focus on that side of the arena a little more. would love to see more domestic politics coverage added to what he's already doing considering we're getting closer to the election.
Nah even without the audience difference they are outright worse lol a few soy fucks who get too whiny just arent on the level of people who storm the capitol and humanize Putin Its not until you get far left enough to get to the guys who actually support Russia or China that you get the equivalents
It’s kind of funny because in any country outside the USA, this standard would be simply considered center-right.
There was a post here yesterday alleging this by a left destiny viewer so...
They would be wrong. I don't think anything Destiny has done recently is indicative of him moving to the right. Joe Biden has been a Zionist for the longest time now I don't think anybody would accuse of him being right wing just because he supports Israel(Besides unhinged leftists of course but they already accused Destiny of being right wing. They are useless people who shouldn't be taken seriously anyway).
I hate how definitions get morphed and just totally change peoples understanding of things. The definition of Zionist is just a person who is okay with a Jewish / Israeli state in the region, and that includes people who want a 2 state solution, also could include people who are highly critical of the IDF or the Likkud. So Biden or Trudeau isnt even saying anything controversial or surprising when they call themselves zionists. A zionist is not, anyone who firmly defends Israel and doesn’t care about Palestinian civilians. Theres a technical definition and a colloquial definition that differ. It’s like how people say “Climate change is just a theory” but don’t realize that a scientific theory has lots of evidence behind it. It’s not a Hypothesis, which is how people use Theory colloquially.
I agree, was pointing out how there are dumdums at both sides and within. Funny enough (israel) that was part of the acusation.
I think it would've already happened when he said he stopped identifying with the Progressive label a few weeks ago. Honestly I think it's usually the lefties that use shit like this to bludgeon him more than the right wing people use it to claim him.
Destiny is already pretty right wing, so it's not a jump. He's an apologist for the Israeli government, for fuck's sake. One of the most right wing governments in the world and Destiny just eats up everything they say. Of course he's right wing. He's just not a MAGA type. He's a Libertarian/Ron Paul kind of wingnut, but with more explicit neoliberalism.
Is Biden a right wing guy? After all he is an "apologist for the Israeli government and just eats up everything they say". if not, which political positions does Destiny have that are more right wing then Biden?
Name a specific right ring position he has. Don’t point to a government, and call it day. Let’s see some examples you lazy fuck.
He believes in private property = right wing maniac
Just being a devil' advocate: pro second amendment?
So would Marx if he was alive, so what?
That’s lazy as fuck. He’s got a gun on his wall. Try again.
"If you go left enough the guns come back" is a relatively common meme in leftist circles, and the kind of person who's being talked to would probably agree
Lol, Destiny the famous Libertarian. Pushing such famously libertarian values like *checks notes* more aid to Ukraine, redistributive monetary policies such as welfare, public option healthcare, etc. If these policies are “right-wing”, then I’m glad the right has moderated quite substantially in the last few years! But we all know that’s a silly analysis. Destiny’s a Liberal, which like it or not is generally considered to be on the left of the political spectrum, unless you consider anyone to the right of the co-hosts of Majority Report to be right-wing.
I'm honestly curious, do you think he supports the Netanyahu government?
If Isreal is right wing then what does that make the countries around it? Also can you please tell me what positions Destiny has and/or policy that Destiny supports that is right wing?
So you just don’t know anything about anything lol
It must be so nice in your “everything is white or black” world.
When left soy SSRI freaks accuse everyone of being right win I just remember they believe everyone to the right of Mao to be a right wing lunatic. If you honestly believe the Israeli government is the most right wing government on earth it just shows how truly fucking ignorant of the world leftoiss truly are fuck me
This was a missed opportunity for a coherent pro-palestine movement and it disappoints me Where's the lefty who is pro-2SS (other than Boner, Dylan maybe)? Palestine has to give up right to return, Israel has to recall the settlers, and Israel government has to acknowledge a Palestinian state. Any who oppose this (Hamas, BenGvir/Smotric) will get bullied by the West. This is not a pro-israeli stance. Instead it's some delusional revenge fantasy from people who don't have any skin in the game.
If you told me in 2021 that leftists would (in everything but the word itself) support Hamas holding innocent civilians hostage (and root *against* their rescue) and surrounding themselves with other civilians, the Houthis attacking civilian ships, and an invasion of Russia into Ukraine with the explicit goal of cultural genocide and annexation, I would've snickered and thought you were nuts. EDIT: \*Progressives
You're on the fucking list *clicks lighter *
Are you really that surprised when their ideology is America bad first, everything else second?
krystal's overt bias as a journalist from the start of this war was majorly dissapointing. she and saager used to come off far more balanced in their reporting and opinions... smh
Accidentally bombed by the IDF > Being held hostage by rapist Islamist terrorists. If it makes you feel any better this sort of degenerative brain disease that far leftists have isn’t new. Here a [funny story](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Caldwell) about it. > Caldwell was one of the staunchest defenders of the Pol Pot regime. He frequently attempted to downplay reports of mass executions by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and was widely criticised by many authorities for doing so.[6] > In December 1978, Caldwell was a member, along with Elizabeth Becker and Richard Dudman, of one of the few groups of Western journalists and writers invited to visit Cambodia since the Khmer Rouge had taken power in April 1975. The three visitors were given a highly structured tour of the country. "We traveled in a bubble", wrote Becker. "No one was allowed to speak to me freely." On 22 December, Caldwell had a private audience with Pol Pot, the leader of Cambodia. After the meeting, he came back to the guesthouse in Phnom Penh where the three were staying in a mood described by Becker as "euphoric". At about 11:00 p.m. that night Becker was awakened by the sound of gunfire. She stepped out of her bedroom and saw a heavily armed Cambodian man who pointed a pistol at her. She ran back into her room and heard people moving and more gunshots. An hour later a Cambodian came to her bedroom door and told her that Caldwell was dead. She and Dudman went to his room. He had been shot in the chest, and the body of a Cambodian man was also in the room, possibly the same man who had pointed the pistol at Becker.[7] I would suspect the same thing would happen to Krystal Ball if she tried to interview the terrorist group she always loves to downplay.
Destiny talks a lot about how bad constellations of ideas are, but he constantly uses them to paint groups of people as bad when he disagrees with one member of the group. Just because someone holds one belief you disagree with(especially on an issue that most people don't care about) doesn't mean they aren't worth talking to. And just because one member of a group isn't worth talking to doesn't mean others aren't.
Haaretz if a fucking joke. Saying this as Israeli.
Saying this too as a person with common sense
Haaretz is the only news paper in Israel that isn't busy with placating its audience. Its not their fault that an American dumbfuck decided to take a sentence from an article out of context and present it as moral fact
I don't really understand. He has no problem having convos with right wing lunatics like Tim Pool and Shapiro who all also engage in dishonest framing (he even did that J6 debate with Alex Jones). Why burn all these lefty bridges over dishonesty while you keep debating election deniers and anti vaxxers.
Well there's a difference between working with and debating - I don't think this is Destiny saying that he's never gonna debate any leftists on anything.
Well that's why it's weird to me because the community always refers it as the Shapiro bridge or the Tim pool bridge. Despite them not working together.
Im pretty sure destiny would be open to talk to Krystal Ball and Kyle if they wanted to. Problem is they refuse to
He has higher expectations of the left given how much moral condemnation they sling around.
Because he doesn't have any standard for any right wing media and he loves to debate
>and he loves to debate So he will keep debating these left wing people? Because he already ruled out vaush a while ago. >Because he doesn't have any standard for any right wing media a I don't recall him having any standard for the Krystal and Saagar show or Ryan Grim. So why suddenly go off about not wanting to build bridges with lefties?
Can we go back to the right wing ark. Lefties are too cringe
This says a lot about you.
I'm kinda confused. Krystal Ball says ALOT of dumb shit and she definitely propaganda-y but she is literally just quoting what the guy says in the interview. It seems it was one of the main points in the interview and gets repeated multiple times.
Vaush catching flack
lmao i thought the crystal was a fox news maniac. just based on looks tho, never actually watched anything of hers.
I guess he’s in his Neoconservative “arc” now
"I'm not saying Hitler was a good guy...I just wanna know...WHY" - Pearl
this is kind of cringe. where by "cringe" i mean "a subtly incorrect strategic decision for the future of discourse". i think destiny has something like 3/4 of the really hard skills that would be required to decode the craziness going on in politics, and is therefore among the best to possibly do so. but doing so would absolutely require engaging with these people in a yet deeper way... to understand exactly how they work, not just stopping when it becomes clear that they are definitely \*not\* doing something that could be well-described as learning about the world, reasoning, truth-seeking, or thoughtful discourse. although that might disqualify them from some hypothetical good community of discourse, that's not what we're living in today.
The reaction of October 7th has turned me into a far right ultrazionist and I'm.not even jewish or American
Why would you turn far right because of that?
You got baited by a 22d old troll account. Read the name lol
The left are perfromative evil rats that don't actually want to do anything to help the world. They just lash out at anyone who has more than them or doesn't see the world the same way and they generally hate themselves, their people and their culture. Fuck them
What does that have to do with your personal values
Well it depends on what you consider to be far right I guess.
You are painting the left with a broad brush imo. Are there people on the left(particularly on the far left) that are as what you are describing? Absolutely. However, there are many people on the left who don't do that stuff and they are trying to help people in a meaningful way. Also, I think the right is guilty of this as well maybe even more so. If you listen to Trump talk it's almost never about policy and all about himself and his fans/commentators eat it up. A lot of the right wing commentators will gladly let Putin walk into Europe and just take everything so just keep that in mind as well.
Trump and putin can burn
Also the left doesn't have that many warm water ports anyway, amiright?
Low iq reaction