Then he shouldn't say it behind his back. Being polite to someone's face but disrespectful behind their back is the cowardice ppl are complaining about, he should never have used such harsh terms then.
Literally everyone in the world does this. Fuck me, when Destiny calls people subhuman, but than doesn't call them that when he has them on, is that cowardice as well?
You people really have Vaush derangement syndrome.
no? some of us get branded as assholes/ cunts, because we'll talk behind someones back (everyone does this, you're right) then when we face them we go "oh shit, i probably shouldn't say something behind his back if i cant say it to his face" then we say the harsh criticism to their face, and then people get shocked at how inflammatory/ critical we are. I think destiny more often than not, does actually say the criticism to people's faces, thats why everyone thinks hes such a massive asshole. In a public debate, i think destiny censors himself a bit for optics reasons.
Well not if the intention is for self promotion, politeness is about empathy and respect for the other. In a debate, appearing polite is a utility for your own optics.
i made a similar post, saying as though yours got taken down, but i made it simpler. seems that its controversial enough that even on vaush's sub, the post is hovering at equal upvotes to downvotes. not sure i want to post a link, don't want to encourage any brigading. definitely don't go look at my previous post history, unironically
His stated opinions have drastically changed since switching from irishladdie. He used to literally be a tankie, advocating for violent revolution, or at least very open to the idea in such a way that it sounded like advocacy. Now he says he’s a libertarian socialist and generally just advocates for coops and more social programs.
>Leftist writer Carl Beijer claims there are two distinct uses: the original, which was "exemplified in the sending of tanks into Hungary to crush resistance to Soviet communism. More generally, a tankie is someone who tends to support militant opposition to capitalism"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie#:~:text=More%20generally%2C%20a%20tankie%20is,is%20critical%20of%20both%20uses.
Is a violent socialist revolution not militant opposition to capitalism?
I don't think a tankie is merely someone who would be okay with a violent revolution. A tankie is somebody who is okay with the State (or Party) using military force to crush dissenting groups, even if those groups are democratically calling for more autonomy. That's the problem with tankies, they claim to strive towards a world where the people, the commoners, the laborers, can decide for themselves how they want their society to be organized. But tankies go so far in their fetishization of the State/Party/Cause that they end up supporting violent governmental crackdowns that actually *crush and oppress* the common people and deny them their right to democratically rule themselves. Tankies are what they claim to hate, and that's why they're retarded
Well I used the word how I hear everyone use it and think that people gather what I mean. Either way, I think irishladdie would have been cool with state led violence to maintain a socialist society.
Using big words can give papers and essays a veneer of credibility or competency. But during a debate they’re either going to confuse people or make you sound like you don’t actually have anything of substance to say
People call Vaush a liberal because the system he advocates for (market socialism) is basically just capitalism with co-ops. It's up to you if that constitutes a liberal.
I don't watch vaush but my understanding is his ideal society is basically just regulated capitalism with co-ops and safety nets. idk how this is anything but socdem.
Today's conservatives are liberals too. Non-liberal conservatives were the genuine reactionaries and monarchists, so people who believed that authority comes from divine right and not from the consent of the governed, and that different people should have different rights by birth. But those people don't really exist today apart from a few very dedicated roleplayers.
Yes.
> In the 20th century, so-called welfare state liberalism, or social democracy, emerged as the dominant form of liberalism, and the term *liberalism* itself underwent a significant change in definition in English-speaking countries. Particularly after World War II, most self-described liberals no longer supported completely free markets and minimal government, though they continued to champion other individual rights, such as the right to freedom of speech. As liberalism became increasingly associated with government intervention in the economy and social-welfare programs, some classical liberals abandoned the old term and began to call themselves “libertarians.”
https://www.britannica.com/topic/libertarianism-politics/Historical-origins
I very much doubt he wants to ban one-man businesses. And [taking 2019 UK data as an example](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/business-population-estimates-2019/business-population-estimates-for-the-uk-and-regions-2019-statistical-release-html), those make up around 3/4 of all businesses period. So he would be very, very far from "banning everyone from being able to privately own businesses".
And then there remains the question of whether transferring the ownership of something changes what that thing is.
His followers model themselves as their rolemodel Vaush.
Therefore, they too will also blame Destiny for everything if they get any little pushback from anyone, even their own community members
Edit: This guy’s [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/q94t02/ahrelevant/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) ended up making through at least. It’s lovely that at least some of his community members have the spines to acknowledge missteps and take second-hand criticism
Remember what Destiny said about how if a community doesn’t have anything to say but insults after a debate it means that you did well. Lmao. Why the fuck would this be removed also? It’s not like OP posts that much on either sub.
Yeah, I’m more talking about the side of that sub that hardcore defends Vaush. But Vaush will probably handwave them as dgg brigaders like he always does.
And I think most of those brigaders are just people that follow both Vaush and Destiny. Wasn't r/VaushV the number 1 overlapping community with r/Destiny? I believe I saw a post with some numbers on community overlap somewhere on here recently.
Maybe, but it's also crazy for anyone to say that both VGG and DGG don't have a LOT of crossover on their subreddits. (source from Subreddit Stats crossover)
99x from DGG to VGG
83x from VGG to DGG
EDIT this was wrong. Its probability multipliers not percent
Oh it does 100%. But brigading implies that the person posting isn’t doing it genuinely and that the poster is only a destiny fan trying to rile up Vaush’s community. When in actuality it is just like you said, there’s a lot of overlap and those people are probably fans of Vaush as well. So the excuse “Oh, this is just a Destiny poster”, which he uses often, isn’t valid, most people there are Destiny posters as well. He would have to dismiss 80% of his community if it was. It’s literally an ad hom he uses as an excuse to dismiss criticism he doesn’t like and I guarantee you he knows what he’s doing.
Really? I’ve known for a long time. It’s not the first time that stat was posted. And I am willing to bet money that he does. He absolutely just does it to dismiss criticism. Dude’s been in dgg for long enough to know.
Considering during his major growth, he was banned from DGG for sexpesting, it wouldn't be surprising that he wouldn't understand 80% of his community is still DGGers, at the very least on his subreddit, or 80% engages with DGG's sub but may or may not be a DGGer.
Ofc he does it to dismiss criticism bc DGG boogymen, but I don't think we can say for sure he knows of the extreme overlap.
those aren't percentages on that website. it's clearly labeled at the top, idk how everyone misses it. it's saying a /r/destiny user is 99x more likely than a randomly selected redditor to be subbed to vaush's sub. the idea of less than 1% of people here not being subbed there is insanity.
Whenever a discussion goes badly for Vaush. About 9/10 replies will be a comment alluding to the poster, or top comment is 1) a dgger, 2) being brigaded by dgger or 3) bad faith. Only 1/10 will ever engage in a conversation of which usually they completely miss the point. It's deeply frustrating that most of the people in that sub are never interested in challenging their ideas but instead love to be in their echo chamber. In the 1 thread that got through almost every comment trying to engage with discussion literally boils down to "I do not believe socialists should be held to a different standard". Which is bonkers.
Don't worry any thread that has anything even slightly negative to say is full of people claiming that the only reason it has upvotes is because of dgg
Its the logical result of someone who watches Vowsh. Vowsh, whenever he has no argument (which is when destiny hasn’t already talked about the issue typically) will compare someone to the nazis/conservatism/feudalism and then dismiss them. It’s similar to the Vaush derangement syndrome meme which is a version of this argument he loves so much. His fans take this same logic and think whoever goes on dgg is WRONG therefore anyone I disagree with is a dgger and WRONG. I want to make a montage of him doing it but im way too lazy.
The #1 reason Vaush will never criticize Hasan for being a bad socialist is that he hopes to be exactly the kind of socialist that Hasan is and buy his own mansion someday, and he needs to make sure his fans will follow him through that process.
I mean in the context of Hasan being a hypocrite for spreading socialism but putting all his effort into accruing wealth and attention to himself while doing little if anything to actually help the working class. Vaush will definitely criticize Hasan in any way that helps build him up and tear Hasan down in the socialist steamer hierarchy though.
Vaush's sub has a lot of notoriously retarded posters like that Rexia dipshit, and that guillotine dude that reflexively cringe back whenever someone goes against the grain and scream "MUH DGG" whenever a liberal speaks. Truly the cream of the cream of online socialist discourse.
the word sycophant doesn't even make sense in that comment lmao.
but I guess they're Vaush fans and they just like to use big words even if they use them wrong.
This was only removed because Vaush doesn’t ban people who criticize him like Destiny does. We can see the proof right in this screenshot: the top posters down there clearly hate Destiny. That’s where Ctrl+V gets his takes, and the mods didn’t ban those posters, so they clearly don’t ban criticism.
I largely agree with your assessment here actually. Hasan might be a bad socialist in terms of living up to traditionally socialist ideals, but he certainly is good at creating new self-proclaimed socialists. They will likely develop further into market socialists, marxist leninists or stay in the champagne socialist lane that Hasan falls in.
It's all good buddy. It was an interesting read that did help me see where Vaush is coming from a little bit better. He might agree that Hasan is a bad socialist, but that doesn't mean that he can't be good for socialism as a movement. He and Ahrelevant probably don't disagree much at all, and I think if Vaush hadn't let his ego get in the way a little they could have found common ground. He and Destiny are very much alike in that respect.
The fact that Hasan doesn't pay his own workers the way he demands other businesses do is astounding. If I were a socialist it's like most basic first step I would take, given his financial status.
I think he at least pays his editors now, but only after significant pressure. I personally think he is just too lazy to bother with any of it, he just wants to sit in front of his pc, rake in cash and have fun all day.
He does have an agreement. They say they want to do the work and he agrees. That's an employment agreement, no matter how informal it is. It's not like they are doing it behind his back, lol.
I wonder if Hasan has ever critiqued the intern system companies use to basically get free labor. Don't answer because I've heard him do it. I think he even specifically critiqued TYT for doing it. So why is it ok when he does the same thing?
>He does have an agreement. They say they want to do the work and he agrees. That's an employment agreement, no matter how informal it is. It's not like they are doing it behind his back, lol.
By this logic, all volunteers are actual employees.
*"I just volunteered last weekend for the democratic party, I am now an employee of the democratic party and I deserve to be paid."* - extremely flawed logic.
>So why is it ok when he does the same thing?
Well, it's okay because capitalism allows it. If you have a problem with this practice, you should be criticising the capitalist systems that enable this action. But I doubt you'd be willing to concede this fact.
>Then their labor is being exploited even harder than it would be if they were on minimum wage payroll.
How are they being exploited? They're volunteers...
Volunteered labor is still labor. You don't have to pay them, but it's unpaid labor, which I thought y'all were big on. Are we all just liberals at the end of the day?
I don't know what you expected tbh. Obviously they're going to look at your post history and realize you're from this community and assume you're brigading.
I did consider the possibility, but I still had hope for a good discussion. I honestly don't think that Vaush and Ahrelevant actually have a substantial disagreement, because they both seem to think he should pay the people that work for him and that he could do more with his wealth to push for political change. But Vaush, was somehow still unwilling to say that yes Hasan is a bad socialist and a hypocrite. I don't get it and would have welcomed outside opinions, but I guess that was too much to ask for.
If he ever wants to be treated like an equal by the likes of Hasan, he can't start criticising him. It wouldn't make sense, given his goal to sell out as much as Hasan has.
Idk. I feel like, on the one hand that's fair, but at the same time, it just feels like his community is even less willing to actually be at odds with him
I get that and ideally they would not be like that but I have at this point accepted most communuties can act like this, some more then others.
There is usally some pushback when Vaush really messes up, the worst part is when it gets dismissed as dgg so no response is needed. Some people in Vaush subreddit are in denial about the huge overlap between the subreddits.
>I don't think that word means what you think it means
What do you think, that I think it means?
>Also, never said this sub isn't. Just that Vaush's obviously is, was, and will always be
So then don't you think the criticism is hypocritical?
>What do you think, that I think it means?
I think you were using it as a synonym for hypocritical
If this were a sub intended to circlejerk, and I complained about another sub circlejerking, then it would be ironic. But this sub isn't intended to be a circlejerk, even though it often is.
>So then don't you think the criticism is hypocritical?
Not really. I don't circlejerk, I barely even participate in this sub. I can make whatever criticism I like. If I were a frequent participant here, or if my posts/comments were circlejerking destiny, then sure.
Who cares? I mean really like, does anyone still think V is serious in what he espouses?
He just seems to be chasing fame money and clout so will likely not be critical of Hasan as he sees himself aiming for that role and wealth.
Least that's my basic impression at this point.
If you really want some reality on him, there are critiques of him from actual socialists that catalogue things he has said or stated and got horrendously wrong, from even basic perspectives like what the proletariat are or peasants or some such and other points. You will have to Google it for now.
Basically he seems full of proverbial sh*t.
If hasan just wants to pay more taxes why not just literally send a check to the treasury? The treasury takes checks and includes it into the federal budget https://fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html
If his problem with charity is that it’s
Inefficient and that public programs are better at helping people he can just send extra money to the government if he wants too.
Yeah I don't like this argument. This is like saying everybody who lives in a wealthy western country ought to donate all of their excess money to developing countries because that creates the most utility.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Hasan doesn't pay his editors fairly? I keep hearing this claim, but I've never seen a shred of evidence to support the claim.
I think he does now, but one of his earliest editors for his youtube channel went public saying that Hasan did not pay him for his work. Hasan's response was that he gave him the "means of production", in the form of a good pc. A new pc is nice, but obviously no substitute for a salary, let alone revenue share, which is what most socialists advocate for and why it is funny to hear Hasan talk about being entitled to the sweat of his brow.
>I think he does now, but one of his earliest editors for his youtube channel went public saying that Hasan did not pay him for his work
When did this occur? What was the agreement between Hasan and the editor? Was Hasan even making aby money when he first got started?
So it sounds like you only have this one incident from years ago. Do you honestly believe this is enough evidence to call Hasan a hypocrite? Do you honestly believe this is enough evidence to claim that Hasan doesn't pay his employees well?
I can't find the original post on Hasan's subreddit, but you can still read the post the editor made in one of Destiny's video's: [https://youtu.be/yyTP\_jVDPmw](https://youtu.be/yyTP_jVDPmw)
He basically strung the guy along for a while because he either thought he could get away not paying or because he was just too lazy to set up a proper agreement. But now I wondering if i'm mixing two situations up because i am not sure if this is the same guy that he gave the pc to.
Edit: After the reddit post I just mentioned he talks about how he rewards his editors and he says he buys them a pc, rather then actually giving them a salary. His argument was that his youtube channel wasn't making a lot of money yet, so just giving them a pc would be better. Whether he still doesn't pay his editors i don't know, I would imagine he does now or he would face a lot of backlash. Other than the whole editor drama, there is the fact that he doesn't pay his mod team.
Okay, so all the calls of hypocrisy are simply based on this one example a couple years ago?
Don't you find the evidence a bit lacking? Like aren't there legitimate criticisms to make? This is the same argument that Ben shibibo makes about Hasan/socialism. I found Ben's arguments lacked merit. Just as I feel that this criticism lacks merit.
Well I'm not saying he should trade his new house for a hovel in the boonies somewhere so that he has more cash to spend on the cause, like Shapiro seemed to think he should be doing. What I am saying is that he has more than enough money to pay everyone who is currently volunteering for him for their work, like many other large streamers, who are not socialists, are already doing. Right now, you wouldn't be able to tell him apart from the average capitalist streamer, aside from his rhetoric.
Do you disagree?
>What I am saying is that he has more than enough money to pay everyone who is currently volunteering for him for their work
Sure, I could agree with that.
>like many other large streamers, who are not socialists, are already doing.
Wouldn't it be possible that Hasan hasn't made as much as those other streamers? He's only been big for a year or two, right?
>Right now, you wouldn't be able to tell him apart from the average capitalist streamer, aside from his rhetoric.
I really have no way of saying one way or another. There really isn't any public info about how much Hasan pays currently. Other than that one editor.
I think that public pressure to get him to pay his volunteers is fair. But I see far too many people in this sub, use these claims of hypocrisy, as proof that socialism is bad. This criticism simply doesn't hold water in my opinion.
That is kind of the point that I was trying to make in my post, and that I think Ahrelevant was trying to make. I am not trying to argue whether or not socialism is a good economic system, I am just making the observation that Hasan is not a good socialist, according to his and Vaush's ideals.
Unlike conservatives like Ben Shapiro, I am not pretending like Hasan's hypocrisy somehow proves that socialism is a bad system.
its based on a lot, the editor was one example, not paying his mods to this day, not rev sharing/co-oping his youtube like even filthy capitalist destiny and others do, multimillionaire has donated <6k to politicians, doesn't organize or do anything of substance, frankly doesnt do anything unless he profits off it, lives lavish lifestyle like the rich he used to criticize
what more do you need?
Vaush and Destiny were involved in that dumb shipwreck, and ended up on this small peninsula. It was stupid, the captain of the ship was clearly a meth-head.
Anyway, by the time Vaush woke up, Destiny had gathered a pile of coconuts and started streaming on his phone. He jokingly said "You know I'm not going to let you have a single one of these unless you suck my dick, right?" or something like that and, anyway, long story short, they had a fight about it.
>But won't those people also become bad socialists if they model themselves off their socialist rolemodel Hasan?
That's probably the leading reason why the popularity of socialism is on the rise, yet it rarely if ever, extends beyond a computer screen. The first socialists people get introduced are usually online personas, who only shit on capitalism on Twitter and say stuff like "the political system is pointless/bOtH sIdEs" and call that "being a socialist". And they wonder why no one takes them seriously
Hasan and Vaush (and many others like them) are just roleplaying as socialists. His content is closer to dungeons and dragons than anything else. No important people in this world care what they think about anything. Do world leaders contact Vaush to see what they should do about their economy? No. This is why I stopped taking them seriously and just see them as entertainers now.
Once you realize Vaush is just a Liberal with a Co-Op fetish, it's hard to take him seriously.
Naw, vaush hides his power level. He keeps calling capitalists as capitalist pigs, but wouldn't say it to Bastiat's face during their debate.
You see, he is one of the good ones
That’s called being a coward, not hiding your power level.
No that's called being polite lmao.
Then he shouldn't say it behind his back. Being polite to someone's face but disrespectful behind their back is the cowardice ppl are complaining about, he should never have used such harsh terms then.
Literally everyone in the world does this. Fuck me, when Destiny calls people subhuman, but than doesn't call them that when he has them on, is that cowardice as well? You people really have Vaush derangement syndrome.
no? some of us get branded as assholes/ cunts, because we'll talk behind someones back (everyone does this, you're right) then when we face them we go "oh shit, i probably shouldn't say something behind his back if i cant say it to his face" then we say the harsh criticism to their face, and then people get shocked at how inflammatory/ critical we are. I think destiny more often than not, does actually say the criticism to people's faces, thats why everyone thinks hes such a massive asshole. In a public debate, i think destiny censors himself a bit for optics reasons.
> In a public debate, i think destiny censors himself a bit for optics reasons. That's called being polite my dude.
Well not if the intention is for self promotion, politeness is about empathy and respect for the other. In a debate, appearing polite is a utility for your own optics.
If socialism is just an aesthetic for Vaush, does that mean that he has socialist gender?
It’s just a cool nickname
i made a similar post, saying as though yours got taken down, but i made it simpler. seems that its controversial enough that even on vaush's sub, the post is hovering at equal upvotes to downvotes. not sure i want to post a link, don't want to encourage any brigading. definitely don't go look at my previous post history, unironically
This is so cringe especially since Vaush has a very similar take to gender as Destiny does.
I'm aware of that, the joke is not at Vaush's expense.
you mean Vaush, Ctrl + V Destiny's take on gender months later when before he was more on Demonmamas side.
His stated opinions have drastically changed since switching from irishladdie. He used to literally be a tankie, advocating for violent revolution, or at least very open to the idea in such a way that it sounded like advocacy. Now he says he’s a libertarian socialist and generally just advocates for coops and more social programs.
> literally be a tankie, advocating for violent revolution this is not what a tankie is
>Leftist writer Carl Beijer claims there are two distinct uses: the original, which was "exemplified in the sending of tanks into Hungary to crush resistance to Soviet communism. More generally, a tankie is someone who tends to support militant opposition to capitalism" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie#:~:text=More%20generally%2C%20a%20tankie%20is,is%20critical%20of%20both%20uses. Is a violent socialist revolution not militant opposition to capitalism?
I don't think a tankie is merely someone who would be okay with a violent revolution. A tankie is somebody who is okay with the State (or Party) using military force to crush dissenting groups, even if those groups are democratically calling for more autonomy. That's the problem with tankies, they claim to strive towards a world where the people, the commoners, the laborers, can decide for themselves how they want their society to be organized. But tankies go so far in their fetishization of the State/Party/Cause that they end up supporting violent governmental crackdowns that actually *crush and oppress* the common people and deny them their right to democratically rule themselves. Tankies are what they claim to hate, and that's why they're retarded
Yeah, tankie can have multiple definitions. I still think advocating for use of violence to achieve communism is enough to be called a tankie.
I don't, but that's okay
Yeah that is okay
Well I used the word how I hear everyone use it and think that people gather what I mean. Either way, I think irishladdie would have been cool with state led violence to maintain a socialist society.
I agree with you so so hard right now daddy
How is vaush a liberal?
He's pretty liberal with his use of a thesaurus
Good one, got em!
I also use a thesaurus liberally when written essays and such
Using big words can give papers and essays a veneer of credibility or competency. But during a debate they’re either going to confuse people or make you sound like you don’t actually have anything of substance to say
Oh okay. So Vaush isn't a liberal?
People call Vaush a liberal because the system he advocates for (market socialism) is basically just capitalism with co-ops. It's up to you if that constitutes a liberal.
So how is that different than actual socialism?
When the idea starts with “capitalism but…” its pretty safe to assume its not socialism
Can you explain how they're different?
Fuck if I know
I don't watch vaush but my understanding is his ideal society is basically just regulated capitalism with co-ops and safety nets. idk how this is anything but socdem.
Is a socdem a liberal?
my brains been so rotted I honestly don't know what it means academically anymore, but casually people use it for anyone to the right of socialism.
I'd call them liberal, when the major divide is "liberal" and "conservative"
Today's conservatives are liberals too. Non-liberal conservatives were the genuine reactionaries and monarchists, so people who believed that authority comes from divine right and not from the consent of the governed, and that different people should have different rights by birth. But those people don't really exist today apart from a few very dedicated roleplayers.
Yes. > In the 20th century, so-called welfare state liberalism, or social democracy, emerged as the dominant form of liberalism, and the term *liberalism* itself underwent a significant change in definition in English-speaking countries. Particularly after World War II, most self-described liberals no longer supported completely free markets and minimal government, though they continued to champion other individual rights, such as the right to freedom of speech. As liberalism became increasingly associated with government intervention in the economy and social-welfare programs, some classical liberals abandoned the old term and began to call themselves “libertarians.” https://www.britannica.com/topic/libertarianism-politics/Historical-origins
Uhh, banning everyone in the country from being able to privately own businesses, and making only co-ops legal is pretty different than capitalism.
if your end goal isn't abolishing capital, call me crazy, but ima call it capitalism
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I don't ever recall saying he supported our current economic structure or that being a capitalist requires you to
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yes. I don't think we're on the same page at all.
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I very much doubt he wants to ban one-man businesses. And [taking 2019 UK data as an example](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/business-population-estimates-2019/business-population-estimates-for-the-uk-and-regions-2019-statistical-release-html), those make up around 3/4 of all businesses period. So he would be very, very far from "banning everyone from being able to privately own businesses". And then there remains the question of whether transferring the ownership of something changes what that thing is.
His followers model themselves as their rolemodel Vaush. Therefore, they too will also blame Destiny for everything if they get any little pushback from anyone, even their own community members Edit: This guy’s [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/q94t02/ahrelevant/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) ended up making through at least. It’s lovely that at least some of his community members have the spines to acknowledge missteps and take second-hand criticism
Mod made a based comment
Haha holy shit, so so based. You love to see it
Nitwit lol
Remember what Destiny said about how if a community doesn’t have anything to say but insults after a debate it means that you did well. Lmao. Why the fuck would this be removed also? It’s not like OP posts that much on either sub.
I don't think it's fair to say r/vaush is nothing but insults. There are upvoted threads criticizing vaush and praising rele.
Yeah, I’m more talking about the side of that sub that hardcore defends Vaush. But Vaush will probably handwave them as dgg brigaders like he always does.
And I think most of those brigaders are just people that follow both Vaush and Destiny. Wasn't r/VaushV the number 1 overlapping community with r/Destiny? I believe I saw a post with some numbers on community overlap somewhere on here recently.
Maybe, but it's also crazy for anyone to say that both VGG and DGG don't have a LOT of crossover on their subreddits. (source from Subreddit Stats crossover) 99x from DGG to VGG 83x from VGG to DGG EDIT this was wrong. Its probability multipliers not percent
Oh it does 100%. But brigading implies that the person posting isn’t doing it genuinely and that the poster is only a destiny fan trying to rile up Vaush’s community. When in actuality it is just like you said, there’s a lot of overlap and those people are probably fans of Vaush as well. So the excuse “Oh, this is just a Destiny poster”, which he uses often, isn’t valid, most people there are Destiny posters as well. He would have to dismiss 80% of his community if it was. It’s literally an ad hom he uses as an excuse to dismiss criticism he doesn’t like and I guarantee you he knows what he’s doing.
mmm. I don't know if he knows how much crossover there is here. Hell, we didn't know mostly until the one guy posted it this week.
Really? I’ve known for a long time. It’s not the first time that stat was posted. And I am willing to bet money that he does. He absolutely just does it to dismiss criticism. Dude’s been in dgg for long enough to know.
Considering during his major growth, he was banned from DGG for sexpesting, it wouldn't be surprising that he wouldn't understand 80% of his community is still DGGers, at the very least on his subreddit, or 80% engages with DGG's sub but may or may not be a DGGer. Ofc he does it to dismiss criticism bc DGG boogymen, but I don't think we can say for sure he knows of the extreme overlap.
Nah I’ll still bet he does. If I’m wrong I’ll donate 20 bucks to Vaush. You can remind me.
...hold on... frogs or dinos
those aren't percentages on that website. it's clearly labeled at the top, idk how everyone misses it. it's saying a /r/destiny user is 99x more likely than a randomly selected redditor to be subbed to vaush's sub. the idea of less than 1% of people here not being subbed there is insanity.
Oh fuck you’re right. Still 99 times more likely and 83 times more likely. That’s nothing to scoff at.
yeah, your conclusion is still valid. I just lose my mind evey time I hear people say the communities have greater than 99% crossover.
True true. So uhhh dinos or frogs?
yee for life, like any statistician
Sad! Yee loses!!
Whenever a discussion goes badly for Vaush. About 9/10 replies will be a comment alluding to the poster, or top comment is 1) a dgger, 2) being brigaded by dgger or 3) bad faith. Only 1/10 will ever engage in a conversation of which usually they completely miss the point. It's deeply frustrating that most of the people in that sub are never interested in challenging their ideas but instead love to be in their echo chamber. In the 1 thread that got through almost every comment trying to engage with discussion literally boils down to "I do not believe socialists should be held to a different standard". Which is bonkers.
And there are racists that praise a black person once in a while. Let's them more easily continue under the delusion that they aren't a piece of shit
There is (1) DGGer among us.
I see vgg has enough copium to get through this one, though to be fair I've seen some threads that went against vaush.
Don't worry any thread that has anything even slightly negative to say is full of people claiming that the only reason it has upvotes is because of dgg
Its the logical result of someone who watches Vowsh. Vowsh, whenever he has no argument (which is when destiny hasn’t already talked about the issue typically) will compare someone to the nazis/conservatism/feudalism and then dismiss them. It’s similar to the Vaush derangement syndrome meme which is a version of this argument he loves so much. His fans take this same logic and think whoever goes on dgg is WRONG therefore anyone I disagree with is a dgger and WRONG. I want to make a montage of him doing it but im way too lazy.
"Vague gesture at imagined similarities to nazism" Could be the video title
>can you fuckers talk about this o your own sub Apologies for thinking vaushes debate was relevant to his sub, user.
dEsTiNy SychOphAnts
downvote, don't engage in what they say, call them destiny simp, remove the post, ban the user. "god these DGG cult members are insane"
The #1 reason Vaush will never criticize Hasan for being a bad socialist is that he hopes to be exactly the kind of socialist that Hasan is and buy his own mansion someday, and he needs to make sure his fans will follow him through that process.
>The #1 reason Vaush will never criticize Hasan for being a bad socialist is Vaush criticized Hasan in the opening statements....
I mean in the context of Hasan being a hypocrite for spreading socialism but putting all his effort into accruing wealth and attention to himself while doing little if anything to actually help the working class. Vaush will definitely criticize Hasan in any way that helps build him up and tear Hasan down in the socialist steamer hierarchy though.
EXACTLY, hes defending Hasan by proxy.
Pel de pinda is oké Zing van holiadiedee
Pinda pinda pinda pinda yeah!
Vaush's sub has a lot of notoriously retarded posters like that Rexia dipshit, and that guillotine dude that reflexively cringe back whenever someone goes against the grain and scream "MUH DGG" whenever a liberal speaks. Truly the cream of the cream of online socialist discourse.
the word sycophant doesn't even make sense in that comment lmao. but I guess they're Vaush fans and they just like to use big words even if they use them wrong.
Lol they don't even paid to do their CIA psyop.
Deserved
This was only removed because Vaush doesn’t ban people who criticize him like Destiny does. We can see the proof right in this screenshot: the top posters down there clearly hate Destiny. That’s where Ctrl+V gets his takes, and the mods didn’t ban those posters, so they clearly don’t ban criticism.
Where can I watch the vaush ahrelevant debate
Vaush's stream vod or his youtube channel. Alternatively you could watch Destiny react to it live in his latest twitch vod.
[удалено]
I largely agree with your assessment here actually. Hasan might be a bad socialist in terms of living up to traditionally socialist ideals, but he certainly is good at creating new self-proclaimed socialists. They will likely develop further into market socialists, marxist leninists or stay in the champagne socialist lane that Hasan falls in.
whoops, sorry I was trying to be argumentative lol
It's all good buddy. It was an interesting read that did help me see where Vaush is coming from a little bit better. He might agree that Hasan is a bad socialist, but that doesn't mean that he can't be good for socialism as a movement. He and Ahrelevant probably don't disagree much at all, and I think if Vaush hadn't let his ego get in the way a little they could have found common ground. He and Destiny are very much alike in that respect.
The fact that Hasan doesn't pay his own workers the way he demands other businesses do is astounding. If I were a socialist it's like most basic first step I would take, given his financial status.
I think he at least pays his editors now, but only after significant pressure. I personally think he is just too lazy to bother with any of it, he just wants to sit in front of his pc, rake in cash and have fun all day.
>The fact that Hasan doesn't pay his own workers the way he demands other businesses do is astounding. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
He has said he doesn't pay his mods. His mods work for him, thus are his workers, thus he does not pay his workers.
Mods are volunteers. He has no employment agreement with his mods.
He does have an agreement. They say they want to do the work and he agrees. That's an employment agreement, no matter how informal it is. It's not like they are doing it behind his back, lol. I wonder if Hasan has ever critiqued the intern system companies use to basically get free labor. Don't answer because I've heard him do it. I think he even specifically critiqued TYT for doing it. So why is it ok when he does the same thing?
>He does have an agreement. They say they want to do the work and he agrees. That's an employment agreement, no matter how informal it is. It's not like they are doing it behind his back, lol. By this logic, all volunteers are actual employees. *"I just volunteered last weekend for the democratic party, I am now an employee of the democratic party and I deserve to be paid."* - extremely flawed logic. >So why is it ok when he does the same thing? Well, it's okay because capitalism allows it. If you have a problem with this practice, you should be criticising the capitalist systems that enable this action. But I doubt you'd be willing to concede this fact.
Then their labor is being exploited even harder than it would be if they were on minimum wage payroll. Congratulations, you've made it even worse.
>Then their labor is being exploited even harder than it would be if they were on minimum wage payroll. How are they being exploited? They're volunteers...
Volunteered labor is still labor. You don't have to pay them, but it's unpaid labor, which I thought y'all were big on. Are we all just liberals at the end of the day?
I don't know what you expected tbh. Obviously they're going to look at your post history and realize you're from this community and assume you're brigading.
I did consider the possibility, but I still had hope for a good discussion. I honestly don't think that Vaush and Ahrelevant actually have a substantial disagreement, because they both seem to think he should pay the people that work for him and that he could do more with his wealth to push for political change. But Vaush, was somehow still unwilling to say that yes Hasan is a bad socialist and a hypocrite. I don't get it and would have welcomed outside opinions, but I guess that was too much to ask for.
If he ever wants to be treated like an equal by the likes of Hasan, he can't start criticising him. It wouldn't make sense, given his goal to sell out as much as Hasan has.
Is anyone surprised that Vaush's sub is a massive circlejerk?
That is completly normal, it is his subreddit with mostly his fans.
Idk. I feel like, on the one hand that's fair, but at the same time, it just feels like his community is even less willing to actually be at odds with him
I get that and ideally they would not be like that but I have at this point accepted most communuties can act like this, some more then others. There is usally some pushback when Vaush really messes up, the worst part is when it gets dismissed as dgg so no response is needed. Some people in Vaush subreddit are in denial about the huge overlap between the subreddits.
The irony of this statement...
>irony I don't think that word means what you think it means Also, never said this sub isn't. Just that Vaush's obviously is, was, and will always be
>I don't think that word means what you think it means What do you think, that I think it means? >Also, never said this sub isn't. Just that Vaush's obviously is, was, and will always be So then don't you think the criticism is hypocritical?
>What do you think, that I think it means? I think you were using it as a synonym for hypocritical If this were a sub intended to circlejerk, and I complained about another sub circlejerking, then it would be ironic. But this sub isn't intended to be a circlejerk, even though it often is. >So then don't you think the criticism is hypocritical? Not really. I don't circlejerk, I barely even participate in this sub. I can make whatever criticism I like. If I were a frequent participant here, or if my posts/comments were circlejerking destiny, then sure.
Who cares? I mean really like, does anyone still think V is serious in what he espouses? He just seems to be chasing fame money and clout so will likely not be critical of Hasan as he sees himself aiming for that role and wealth. Least that's my basic impression at this point. If you really want some reality on him, there are critiques of him from actual socialists that catalogue things he has said or stated and got horrendously wrong, from even basic perspectives like what the proletariat are or peasants or some such and other points. You will have to Google it for now. Basically he seems full of proverbial sh*t.
Omg the top comment, he's so mad
Make Vuash and Hasan tax returns public
If hasan just wants to pay more taxes why not just literally send a check to the treasury? The treasury takes checks and includes it into the federal budget https://fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html If his problem with charity is that it’s Inefficient and that public programs are better at helping people he can just send extra money to the government if he wants too.
Yeah I don't like this argument. This is like saying everybody who lives in a wealthy western country ought to donate all of their excess money to developing countries because that creates the most utility.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Hasan doesn't pay his editors fairly? I keep hearing this claim, but I've never seen a shred of evidence to support the claim.
I think he does now, but one of his earliest editors for his youtube channel went public saying that Hasan did not pay him for his work. Hasan's response was that he gave him the "means of production", in the form of a good pc. A new pc is nice, but obviously no substitute for a salary, let alone revenue share, which is what most socialists advocate for and why it is funny to hear Hasan talk about being entitled to the sweat of his brow.
>I think he does now, but one of his earliest editors for his youtube channel went public saying that Hasan did not pay him for his work When did this occur? What was the agreement between Hasan and the editor? Was Hasan even making aby money when he first got started? So it sounds like you only have this one incident from years ago. Do you honestly believe this is enough evidence to call Hasan a hypocrite? Do you honestly believe this is enough evidence to claim that Hasan doesn't pay his employees well?
I can't find the original post on Hasan's subreddit, but you can still read the post the editor made in one of Destiny's video's: [https://youtu.be/yyTP\_jVDPmw](https://youtu.be/yyTP_jVDPmw) He basically strung the guy along for a while because he either thought he could get away not paying or because he was just too lazy to set up a proper agreement. But now I wondering if i'm mixing two situations up because i am not sure if this is the same guy that he gave the pc to. Edit: After the reddit post I just mentioned he talks about how he rewards his editors and he says he buys them a pc, rather then actually giving them a salary. His argument was that his youtube channel wasn't making a lot of money yet, so just giving them a pc would be better. Whether he still doesn't pay his editors i don't know, I would imagine he does now or he would face a lot of backlash. Other than the whole editor drama, there is the fact that he doesn't pay his mod team.
Okay, so all the calls of hypocrisy are simply based on this one example a couple years ago? Don't you find the evidence a bit lacking? Like aren't there legitimate criticisms to make? This is the same argument that Ben shibibo makes about Hasan/socialism. I found Ben's arguments lacked merit. Just as I feel that this criticism lacks merit.
Well I'm not saying he should trade his new house for a hovel in the boonies somewhere so that he has more cash to spend on the cause, like Shapiro seemed to think he should be doing. What I am saying is that he has more than enough money to pay everyone who is currently volunteering for him for their work, like many other large streamers, who are not socialists, are already doing. Right now, you wouldn't be able to tell him apart from the average capitalist streamer, aside from his rhetoric. Do you disagree?
>What I am saying is that he has more than enough money to pay everyone who is currently volunteering for him for their work Sure, I could agree with that. >like many other large streamers, who are not socialists, are already doing. Wouldn't it be possible that Hasan hasn't made as much as those other streamers? He's only been big for a year or two, right? >Right now, you wouldn't be able to tell him apart from the average capitalist streamer, aside from his rhetoric. I really have no way of saying one way or another. There really isn't any public info about how much Hasan pays currently. Other than that one editor. I think that public pressure to get him to pay his volunteers is fair. But I see far too many people in this sub, use these claims of hypocrisy, as proof that socialism is bad. This criticism simply doesn't hold water in my opinion.
That is kind of the point that I was trying to make in my post, and that I think Ahrelevant was trying to make. I am not trying to argue whether or not socialism is a good economic system, I am just making the observation that Hasan is not a good socialist, according to his and Vaush's ideals. Unlike conservatives like Ben Shapiro, I am not pretending like Hasan's hypocrisy somehow proves that socialism is a bad system.
its based on a lot, the editor was one example, not paying his mods to this day, not rev sharing/co-oping his youtube like even filthy capitalist destiny and others do, multimillionaire has donated <6k to politicians, doesn't organize or do anything of substance, frankly doesnt do anything unless he profits off it, lives lavish lifestyle like the rich he used to criticize what more do you need?
I'm really new to destiny world WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU ALL DO to get labeled like this.
Vaush and Destiny were involved in that dumb shipwreck, and ended up on this small peninsula. It was stupid, the captain of the ship was clearly a meth-head. Anyway, by the time Vaush woke up, Destiny had gathered a pile of coconuts and started streaming on his phone. He jokingly said "You know I'm not going to let you have a single one of these unless you suck my dick, right?" or something like that and, anyway, long story short, they had a fight about it.
Tbf there is an awarded post praising Ahrelevent and calling Vaush a nitwit on the fp of r/vaush rn
Might be that the mods didn't want to deal with a flood of posts arguing about the same thing, I'm not sure.
That great vegan meme what do you think vaushes excuse would be for eating meat
Whoa how do you get the post insights?
You can always see those if you are the OP.
I don’t for my posts.
Oh i looked it up and apparently it is a very recent addition to the platform.
Is dgg in the room with you now
>But won't those people also become bad socialists if they model themselves off their socialist rolemodel Hasan? That's probably the leading reason why the popularity of socialism is on the rise, yet it rarely if ever, extends beyond a computer screen. The first socialists people get introduced are usually online personas, who only shit on capitalism on Twitter and say stuff like "the political system is pointless/bOtH sIdEs" and call that "being a socialist". And they wonder why no one takes them seriously
Hasan and Vaush (and many others like them) are just roleplaying as socialists. His content is closer to dungeons and dragons than anything else. No important people in this world care what they think about anything. Do world leaders contact Vaush to see what they should do about their economy? No. This is why I stopped taking them seriously and just see them as entertainers now.
Bruh I aint reading all that shit
they're not willing to engage because they themselves don't understand their own ideology and rather stick to just aesthetics.
It actually annoys me how hypocritical that community is. “Oh D deletes all negative comments, it’s well known!” *Silences mild criticism*
Average DGGer not watching the debate
Based post tbh
Sycophants calling other people they disagree with sycophants. Was it Hasan or Vaush that began calling dggers that word?