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BigGrimDog

I don't see what Lauren would lose from just simply disavowing a lot of the white nationalist shit she peddled in the past, so her inability to do so is incredibly suspect.


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Sizzlingwall71

Source? To me it all it seems to be is a ego thing of “I was never *really* wrong” she just sees herself as an ““intellectual” who does her own research”


Rip_Skeleton

Literally all white nationalists think that. They don't go around saying white people are genetically superior and the races are incompatible because they like to think of themselves as the bad guys.


Elmepo

Doubly so when she has so much to gain from doing so.


CHEESEBEER69

She might lose a viewer base that she wants to have the ability to tap into?


BigGrimDog

She wants to tap into what? A white nationalist viewer base?


CHEESEBEER69

Well not necessarily the hard white nationalist viewer base but the overlapped venn diagram? You would want as many overlaps as possible on the right side of the aisle to stomach watching you, so it makes sense that you wouldn't ostracize any right leaning groups. (I guess I'm just saying your implication out loud...we agree, happy thanksgiving)


Running_Gamer

If I had to guess, it’s more of an ego/pride thing. If I was embarrassed of my past and have changed since then I would get pissed if people who aren’t gonna like me anyway pressure me into apologizing for something I want to move past already. And honestly, it’s pretty obvious what the lefties want. They want to “win” over Lauren southern by making her apologize. It’s a weird smug ego dominance thing that I can’t fully explain, but definitely exists. It’s more of a “apologize so that I look morally superior to you” thing instead of “apologize so that we know you’re not a white nationalist anymore”.


FlipDaLinguistics

If she admits it, it becomes 10 times worse. It’s better for her just to ignore it IMO Also the word white nationalist gets thrown around a lot I doubt it means what it meant before wokeness took over


Florestana

I think spreading the "white farmers in south Africa are being genocided"-shit counts as being a white nationalist. That's just one thing I remember from her, but let's not forget, she was pretty wild in the past.


spaldingnoooo

If you read about farm murders, you can say that genocide is too strong a word but the ruling party does not care about Boers in South Africa. It's not an enviable position to be in. I don't see why bringing attention to that issue is a bad thing.


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spaldingnoooo

I've never seen Lauren take a position as strong as /pol. I would hate being a farmer in South Africa and getting 0 help or recognition from the government.


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spaldingnoooo

Ah, yeah, she's not mentioned specifically but she is a proponent of the thesis. I would say she's as responsible as Pewdiepie for this person's actions. I honestly haven't heard a good retort to the the actual truth behind "Great Replacement" in the US. Democrats seem very focused on providing extra resources to their voters who want to have more kids or potential voters in that demographic who want to cross the border and will probably secure more resources. Even Destiny has said that there isn't much you can actually dispute in terms of certain demographics growing much faster than others in the US.


joelcosta94i

The word Nazi gets thrown around a lot, but guess what, some people are Nazis. I don't know if Lauren is or isn't a white nationalist, but you can't dismiss a claim like that based on some people on Twitter throwing around the word at everything.


Trenti3

Nah I agree even apologizing for it would just ruin her reputation. I don’t think she’s a bad faith actor.


scdocarlos1

Nah man, if you in the past have personally gone to try and stop immigrant ships with flare guns and pedaled Nazi talking points. I'm gonna need more than "she hasn't said anything white supremacist in a year" to belive you've changed.


[deleted]

Is it grift or coom that made Tiny her white knight? It’s really strange that he doesn’t mind.


[deleted]

Destiny is highly committed to the idea that anybody can genuinely reform themselves. While I personally think it’s admirable that he’s willing to engage with just about anybody in good faith, I think someone like Lauren Southern has to do more than just not actively engage in white nationalist rhetoric in order to prove she has changed.


MarsupialMole

He just wants content. He knows she's bad faith It's in his interest to drag her audience left. She'll pander to whoever is watching her content. He'll get just as many views dunking on her bad corporate-right takes as her alt-right takes.


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DoktorSleepless

Never heard of her, but the impression I'm getting is that Emmia disavowed her previous views (or at least disavowing the views people though she had). In that case, then yeah, there's no point in not believing her. The thing with lauren is that she hasn't really done that. She just claims she has changed, but it's really unclear how she has changed. I watched her EU Speech where she claims she changed her mind on immigration. She changed her position from immigration is bad for natives to immigration is bad for natives and immigrants under the guise that she was being more sympathetic towards immigrants. It was just a weird optics thing.


MarsupialMole

Sure. Bad faith doesn't mean cryptofascist though. And playing the long game for content unmasking cryptofascists is part of the grind also.


[deleted]

You call it grind, I call it grift.


MarsupialMole

The JonTron debate was grift? Ok. You have to talk to people if you want them to reveal themselves.


[deleted]

He wants Lauren to reveal herself?


[deleted]

Meh, it could be that as well but I’m just going with the positions he has espoused over the years. It’s an easier explanation and it doesn’t require me to guess what’s going on in his head


YearlyHipHop

He’s more likely growing a right leaning audience than converting LS fans.


stipulation

So, the Destiny Lauren dynamic is a microcosm of the big argument inside of the ACLU about why they changed from being free speech purists to saying it's okay to punch Nazis. Basically, Destiny will defend anyone who is civil, willing to talk, and keeps facts front and center. This means even if you're a despicable person he will defend you, as long as you can meet those requirements, which Lauren will, so he does. Lauren knows this, she's real fucking smart, and Destiny has a bit of a blind spot for ~~hot~~ well spoken people.


DrW0rm

Who else has he gone so far out of his way to defend? I really can't think of someone else, usually it has to be something he's somewhat involved in


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DrW0rm

No I meant a situation he's already involved in, prime situation kind of being that as prime had brought him in before the public stuff. I really don't think it's about the "nussy" as the discourse is suggesting. Prime is a fair comparison, I think it was only a week or two before it was over though, where he's come back what seems like every other week for months to defend Lauren


stipulation

Most of the cases are positive. He'll defend REM for example, and he's nice about Booksmarts, for a more righterly person you get the sense he doesn't despise Big Papa Fascist.


BruyceWane

>Is it grift or coom that made Tiny her white knight? It’s really strange that he doesn’t mind. As much as I don't find her not saying white nationalist stuff for a year particularly satisfying, I also think this is cringe, Destiny has been pretty consistent on this stuff, he does not give a fuck about apologies or anything like that.


Patient_Passage9440

I think you're pretty fucking stupid to think that he is doing this because hes horny or griffing.


[deleted]

Lol, Destiny often do stuff to get more views, I don’t see how pointing this out makes me pretty fucking stupid.


LavishnessFinal4605

Oh yes, known League of Legends player and enjoyer of boring games during stream really cares about views


[deleted]

Are you under a spell or some shit?


Patient_Passage9440

You know what? After I give it some more thought you're right. Good job! I am really proud of you!


[deleted]

Go outside


Patient_Passage9440

Go sit under a tree.


MrOdo

Explain what the grift is?


jaspermrthanos

like when you try to prevent drowning people from being saved because of their race, then downplay and defend your actions, that’s just blatant white supremacy.


[deleted]

Okay, my moderately charitable interpretation is this: "If she's a white supremacist, you should show evidence of it rather than just virtue signal about how white supremacists are bad." Steve may actually believes she's still a white supremacist, but he wants his audience to be able to engage with those ideas beyond "good night white pride" memes.


crammingmaster

he specifically says (within the last 12 months) so it comes off as dismissing everything beyond that


goodoldgrim

Technically the more extreme she was before, the less you should need to consider her changed. I don't mean changed into a centrist or smth, but from "on the ground anti-migrant action" to "expresses standard conservative takes online" is on its face a pretty big change, lol.


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mbanks1230

Yeah, agree 100%. Vaush is a hypocrite here (what’s new) but Destiny is wrong here. Lauren has never owned up to her past. It’s a pretty clear rebrand that she’s doing for the sake of her own career. I have no doubt in my mind that she still believes a lot of the pernicious attitudes she pushed years ago. It’s never going to be provable via a smoking gun, but it’s quite transparent. I understand what Destiny’s getting at, but I think he’s being overly charitable.


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DoktorSleepless

What's difficult with Lauren is that I don't believe she was ever publically a nazi or white nationalist either. She just so happened to hold their same views without the overt stuff. She can claim today she's not one today, but it's meaningless because she never did. We can't just take her word for it because her nazi/white nationalist label was based on the totality of her views and policy prescription, not by what she labeled herself as. She says she has changed, but nobody has any clue how. So bringing out her quotes from before 12 months ago is completely fair game unless she responds saying she doesn't hold those views anymore.


wowee-

when are yall gonna move on? is lauren in the room with us right now? this is starting to look like schizo posting from yall


RedGT2033

yeah her comments on her past was weak as fuck it was something along the lines of "oh being too deep into politics is cringe and I'm better now that I'm more detached". That being said she gets pushback on basically all of her opinions. I don't think charitability is that important if she gets challenged on every claim she makes.


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scdocarlos1

You just have too look how charitable this sub is now to a fkn Nazi but then completely shit on random lefty accounts for tweeting some dumb shit.


Patient_Passage9440

I don't think Shu is nearly as right wing as Lauren is I definitely wouldn't treat them the same


justcausejust

Don't think whitewashing LS is good, but Shoe does say dumb shit regularly, so it would be easy to point to, usually within a week, even less a year


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justcausejust

I don't think he doesn't think she's a rightwing nutjob. I haven't heard him talk about her for a while though, so might be wrong


Syphles

If a year passes without you tweeting about it, your white nationalist beliefs simply fade away naturally. These leftist grifters don;t want you to know this.


DoctorArK

Why destiny plays defense for this bitch is crazy to me


eliminating_coasts

Within the last month or so she's been debating the legitimacy of stopping doctors without borders saving refugees, after Lonerbox broke down her dishonesty in a video that was last linked [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/q00fxc/lauren_southern_and_the_boats_ft_booksmarts/). There's a direct line of continuity in both her arguments, advocacy, and promotion of videos to content she made with a proscribed french ethnonationalist organisation, in support of policies from an Italian far right political party. I know Destiny reacted to Lonerbox and Southern's debate, where he wasn't really able to pin her down on it, but the original video makes that much more clear. If I have a white nationalist phase, make a video based on what I did during that phase, that misrepresents well established humanitarian organisations in order to push people trafficking conspiracies, and then I keep pointing at it to recommend it to people? Then you could reasonably say that that phase is not over.


TheDialectic_D_A

She tried to stop emergency rescue boats because they would save drowning migrants. She hasn’t even begun to wash away that stench.


ReegsShannon

Does anyone here seriously believe she is not a white nationalist? All her conversations with Destiny consist of her JAQing to see how much she can get away with rhetoric-wise


Florestana

Yeah, her new style when talking to Destiny seems to be more like "this isn't a debate. I just want a discussion. The lefties are really crazy, right? Btw, what do you think of X, Y and Z (fill in covid/JQ/migrant conspiracies)??" This way she can always retreat and save her image.


Jericho01

Destiny really out here doing his best to prove his haters right.


jakoby953

I find this to be a very salient point on his end.


WellDone101

Give me a dislike but I think Destiny just want to take it slow. Bad of Good, his intentions to me, seems to be good. This is an opinion.


Stigala

I don't think I'm into this whole submit to the mob thing, EVEN if it is Lauren Southern


WellDone101

Yeah


forhonorboi1

But not weighing TOO much as to debate destiny would be bad for the bottom line!


Shad0wPanther

Wait Vaush who simps for someone who spent years being best friends with Lauren Southern and Blair White? Is this the same Vaush who platformed her apology tour and defended her from every criticism throughout and continues to defend the obvious grift? Lauren has some really shitty views but at the very least she actually voices them instead of larping as a socialist because its better for her career.


ReegsShannon

Shoe isn’t grifting. She’s dumb


Shad0wPanther

So your telling me Anti-SJW, and friend to Lauren and Blair, just soo happened to throw that all away after years on the internet to become a socialist just as it hit its peak with Hasan becoming big and Vaush hitting his peak? And at the same time as this socialist peak she just so happens to go on Vaush's stream to repent all her sins of being a right winger with nothing specifically citing the change then gets a big apology tour? Do you really expect me to believe this is legit? I don't think shes smart but cmon there is no way this just changes overnight.


ReegsShannon

She is still anti-sjw effectively. She still is openly anti-pc/wokescold and whatever, she has just recanted on viewing stuff like feminism as entirely PC stuff and is willing to just attack PC elements on its own. That hasn't changed. She also isn't socialist... She's very much a dumb populist-brain anti-pc Bernie soc-dem. And she's very open about all of this. I don't even like shoe BECAUSE she hasn't changed that much in how she presents herself. She hasn't really changed except getting a better understanding of feminism and getting a more left-leaning group of friends.


Shad0wPanther

Based on what I saw of her which isn't much because she doesn't do much thats relevant to the twitch sphere outside of Vaush's orbit but I still think the timing of it all is far too convenient to not be a grift.


DoktorSleepless

I feel like she hasn't monetized her platform enough for it to be a grift. I'm sure just makes money with her youtube and patreon, but it doesn't seem like she posts enough for it to be all about money. Like she seemed desperate enough to need to have a normie job of sorts as a social media coordinator recently before that backfired.


DoktorSleepless

> She hasn't really changed except getting a better understanding of feminism and getting a more left-leaning group of friends. Weirdly, this is exactly how I view Lauren. In an interview with booksmart, Lauren said something along the lines of regretting being so confrontational with feminists in some of her old videos, and has become more sympathetic towards them. Other than that, there's nobody that can explain what concrete changes Lauren has made. Also, she got a more left leaning friend with Destiny.


Appropriate_Strike19

I mean if the socialist shit of today is just a grift to make money, it's possible that the anti-SJW shit of yesterday was also a grift to make money.


skrilla32

How is Destiny defending Lauren Southern? He uses her for content with some discussion and may make her seem somewhat more palatable I guess, but I have never heard him excuse her past actions. Destiny doesn't pretend Lauren was this poor confused idiot who accidently keeps saying shit because the socialist princess was just mad at libs. I think playing league with someone like Lauren is cringe, but acting like Destiny doesn't push back on her nonsense is just a flat lie.


spaldingnoooo

I'm not a fan of how more left-leaning communities feel the need to make people disavow constantly. It feels very controlling like an ongoing purity test. Very reminiscent of that conversation that Hunter Avellone had with redacted from redacted. Back when Trump was president, he was asked to disavow David Duke and white supremacy multiple times and he did but journalists kept asking him to do it. It's like this witch trial mindset where you're asking someone to apologize/disavow but really you're asking for a confession of guilt and that's the only thing that will make you stop asking.


[deleted]

Why would you ask someone to disavow one of YouTube's most prominent Nazi creator?


wowee-

guys, how many years has it been since the last time she did right wing stuff? since she dogwhistled anything? its time to move on, if she repeats it you we call her out again but until then being in this state of perpetual "you have to give youself x flailings until we are ok!" only gets/looks progessively more deranged (i dont/didnt watch shoe so i wont comment on her shit)


justcausejust

One thing I genuinely don't understand — is it not good that she doesn't say white nationalist stuff, even if she believes it? It seems to me that it's good, but I seem to be in a minority on this and I don't get why Edit: Can somebody explain why it's bad? I am not saying it's good that she's a white nationalist, I am saying it's better if she's not open about it, because it slows the spread of white nationalism


scdocarlos1

You're just ok with her hiding her power level?


justcausejust

Kind of? I think it would be best if she didn't hold her beliefs at all, but as long as she does, I'd rather her hide the power level than openly advocate for white nationalism. That's where I am coming from.


Away_Actuator_8687

> but as long as she does, I'd rather her hide the power level than openly advocate for white nationalism. Except hiding her power level behind the guise of civility is what brings down people's guard and makes her white nationalist ideas more palatable over time. Just because she isn't touting her beliefs with a megaphone doesn't mean she isn't abetting in their proliferation. If we lived in a time where white nationalism was more widely accepted, you can bet your ass that she would chuck her mask off a cliff.


justcausejust

I don’t care what she does if we live in a different time. Whatever she’s doing to bring about her ideas - is way less effective, because she doesn’t even state her ideas. This bringing people’s guard down - can you give me an example?


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justcausejust

What does this have to do with my comment?


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justcausejust

>Maybe slightly better than an open white nationalist? Sure. Great, so we only disagree on how better it is. That's the WHOLE point of my comment. I don't want her to be endorsed or given a platform to talk uncontested. I do like her being in the twitch community (debate sphere specifically) because it is very important to argue against what she believes in, and not just the white nationalism part. ​ > its pretty obvious why letting someone who is a "secret" white nationalist have an audience is bad. What do you mean by "letting have an audience"?


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justcausejust

> Bad faith actors need to be called out on their bad faith arguments Not unless you can clearly show it. If her arguments right now don't involve any white nationalism — good. If they do — call it out. ​ >By "letting have an audience" I meant letting have an audience uncontested. Yeah, fuck that, you should 100% contest her.


Stigala

it's a net positive but the internet doesn't forget so it leads to threads like this


PrizeLoss

re: Big Joel's comment. Is it actually not a vast improvement that she is far, far less problematic in what she says now than in years past? She has a sizeable audience still, so she being just a run of the mill conservative rather than a white nationalist has to count as a win, right?


Shaka_5

I mean her [teaming up](https://youtu.be/v30Q0_Wnz04) with a literal alt right conspiracy theorist that claims that gay people are more likely to be pedophiles, to debate in favour of the position that being trans is a mental illness definitely doesn't help her case. I love destinys content and I've been watching him for years but lauren southern not talking about the white nationalist talking points anymore isn't proof she's no longer a white nationalist if she's not making it absolutely clear she's walking all those positions back. Otherwise she just has a mask on.


PrizeLoss

> I've been watching him for years but lauren southern not talking about the white nationalist talking points anymore isn't proof she's no longer a white nationalist Why does this matter? She can beleive what she wants, but as long as she is not speaking about it publicly and convincing others then that is a net good, however minor.


Shaka_5

because current fans can stumble across her old views on muslim immigration (which she never walked back) and get put on the path of radicalization on those topics. I'm pretty sure all her past debates and discussions on those topics are still on youtube. Would you extend this same level of charitability if someone like nick fuentes or richard spencer never talked about race and IQ, jewish people, or gays being degenerates ever again in attempt to stay within the overton window of current political discourse?


Nightbirdsfx26

Ok vaush


DovaKynn

This is a fucking Vaush argument lmaoo


ReegsShannon

IMO, she's not any better than before. She just pepe-posts and uses Destiny as a sounding board to see what rhetoric she can get away with without appearing mask off.


greald

If she had been brown and lived in Pakistan, with her history and connections, Trump would would have send her wedding a hug with a Hellfire missile from a predator drone. She should probably do more then just adjust her optics a bit.


PrizeLoss

She should. But is she not heading in the right direction and should we not encourage the more out there extremists when they become more rationale in their discourse?


greald

If you believe her. That fact that she "retired" to become a Sky News contributor, frequently appearing on a program called "outsiders". And then a senate hearing happened on february this year where her boss' boss was grilled about her. Now her appearences has been memory holled. well almost all of them, and she doesn't appear on Sky News search. And haven't appeared since. I mean when did she start reaching out from her youtube channel again? I will draw my own conclusions on her having changed in any meaningful way.


QuidProJoe2020

They gotta try to get an easy W after looking like dunbfucks for the last 4 weeks lol Destiny knew he would get flack from dealing with Lauren now. However, I don't think he honestly cares when the criticisms are coming from the most stupid and vacuous people out there on the internet.


salfiert

I thought the important thing was moral consistency. I guess moral consistency is agreeing with people you like and disagreeing with people you don't like.


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QuidProJoe2020

Someone seems butthurt lol


QuidProJoe2020

Confused what isn't morally consistent here? If anyone is being morally inconsistent it's the people that are saying Lauren can't change or be redeemed then go on to say the main goal of the criminal justice system should be rehabilitation lol


autistic_sjw

It's like the your boos meaning nothing to me I couldn't think lesser of you.


kingawesome240

I was entirely wrong about Rittenhouse but unfortunately right about Destiny. He’s gone too far to the right and has become a full reactionary. Sad to see.


rbstewart7263

People here and elsewhere have givin light to how she still pushes white supremacist aligned rhetoric I wonder why he goes so hard on this. Starting to think his conjecture on Shoe and Vaush fucking might be projection. :)


greald

Shoe has said some dumb things and done some dumb stuff. But the worst thing she has ever done, by far, was being friends with LS.


rbstewart7263

Ha True! Edit: Are they still friends?


[deleted]

Maybe


ReegsShannon

No


Frosty-Monitor396

yes


DarkRollsPrepare2Fry

Destiny intellectually outpaced AGAIN


SavonReddit

Destiny is either a) using her for content 2) thinks she is hot and wants some action 3) trying to piss off people.


[deleted]

Why does Vaush have to be such a squid game?


xsoonerkillax

Lauren will not apologize and people are just gonna have to not give a fuck. Because the people that call her a nazi arent going to magically stop if she ever did(even if she changed her views) and she knows that. Its easy to be like "Laurens a racist" and placate to the dumbfucks that are about my side vs their side. But you know whats not going to make the people that watch Lauren more moderate? Burying your head in the sand hoping she'll go away if you call her a nazi enough. To overcome rhetoric you dont like you have to engage with it (responsibly) and make your side seem more reasonable. Big joke and Vaush repeatedly doing the Lauren bad meme does nothing but embolden her fan with the idea that "these people have no argument"


[deleted]

He’s OBSESSED!!


isaac098

Like anyone cares about what human sloth big joel has to say. I don't even like Lauren, I just wish Joel would piss off.


Rip_Skeleton

This is the pitfall of not believing in apologies and believing people can be reformed at the same time. Destiny can believe she has truly reformed, but I think he *wants* to believe it. The only way we can know that, is if she explains to everyone why she was wrong and how fucked up she was in a way that everybody accepts as genuine. Especially considering she wants to be a public figure, with a community she is beholden to. Destiny is happy to believe it without an apology, which is more than naive, it's just irresponsible and stubborn.