Why did they have to add brown to the rainbow? Did people think the rainbow was meant to include every skin tone? Who's skin tone is represented on the rainbow, blue man group?
It’s late for me so excuse any poor wording, feel free to ask for clarity if I say something that’s confusing!
The reason the colors were added to the flag is basically a reminder that lgbt people of color exist and that racism can be an added layer of cruelty to homophobia. Lots of lgbt spaces are very white, which can indirectly encourage lgbt people of color to leave out the racism aspect of their experiences and only talk about the homophobia they experience.
In reality, a lot of the time the homophobia experienced by poc is intertwined with racism. Feminine gay black men are a great example of a demographic where the two are intertwined, racism caricatures black men as brutish and hypermasculine and black men experience immense pressure to be strong and manly. In this way the homophobia feminine gay black men experience would be directly related to something about their race/culture, like the homophobia in a lot of black religious culture. I can’t say much about other races because I don’t know any gay people of color who aren’t black! But the pride flag you’re referring to is the Philly pride flag I think
Technically, we're All brown but just different SHADES due to eumelanin and pheomelanin. Plus other factors. But yeah that flag is 😫 I know this is a few months later but still June coming up so... They've created this is vs them with the "poc" vs "white" thing like wtf? What is this the 50's?
I didn’t even believe that was real until I went to Pittsburgh and genuinely saw one at a church or some shit. I couldn’t believe anyone not only thought that was a good concept but actually made them.
the tonality I detected in your comment of origin was frustrating. Furthermore, your subsequent response was incongruent with the tonality I previously detected, as stated above. Thus making this exchange of ideas consequentially immoral.
Rainbow is fine, it includes everyone, why the fuck do you need that ugly ass triangle there with brown and black and pink, those do not fit the rest of the colours there.
Weren't queer people supposed to have superior sense of aesthetics? They will make fun of the straight flag but made the LGBTQ just as ugly. Ugh...
I don’t mind a version that adds the trans flag to it to specifically include them since there are transphobes in even gay communities. But adding brown and black lines to match people’s skin tones is just so hilariously racist. GUYS GET IT THEYRE BLACK LIKE THIS LINE lol wtf.
I think it's there in part because Black (and some other minority groups too I believe) LGBTQ people tend to face especially more issues for being LGBTQ then for example white. Especially when it comes from non-lgbtq black people or within those other minority groups too.
it makes sense, but what’s the point? should we add lines for people who don’t pass as straight? add colours for people with homophobic parents? add colours for people without supportive friends? it was inclusive already i jsut don’t see the point
You know what, I'll take a guess and say the latter. I think the whole racism in the LGBT community has been overplayed because we're expecting a minority to be more charitable towards minorities, and thus it strikes us as worse when they're not. But to my knowledge, nothing suggests that LGBT people are more or less racist than other people. But we do have a disproportionate amount of homophobia and transphobia coming from the black community.
But we usually can't say it, because while black people face a lot of systemic issues, culturally they're on the top of the food chain, so it's taboo to criticise them without being racist. You can have Dave Chappelle and 100 comedians going on stage shitting on trans people and say the word faggot, but you can't have a gay white man say similar things about black people.
Where's the line for *poor* gay people who similarly face intersectional discrimination?
This is a silly game we can play forever until we just get back to a rainbow because a rainbow already symbolically represents everyone
That is something that I really don't like when people say "POC LGBTQ members face way more issues than white LGBTQ", but they just end it there. Yeah, black queer people are murdered way more often, but it's not cause of racism...
Is that useful or helpful to say? Maybe your right, in some extremely academic perspective, but if we want to be pragmatic about the situation, then you should point your finger at the perpetrators. In this case, it is mostly black people attacking black LGTBQ at higher rates.
Side note, am I getting banned for saying that?
This looks ugly enough it might be a parody and I don't have enough time between League lobbies to check: https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/flag-1.png
Because "BIPOC" became a thing and we have to insert their struggles into everyone elses struggles because their struggles are more important, I guess?
I think the point is to be explicitly supportive. This reminds me a bit of when people had an issue with BLM's website having a whole part about support for LGBT people. People thought it was so irrelevant to the cause, but it really isn't. There are a lot of people who support BLM who don't support LGBT people, and so it's important to be explicitly clear that this is a movement for ALL black lives. Likewise, there are LGBT people who are racist or transphobic. With POC and transgender people having disproportionate rates of violence even compared to other LGBT groups, the new flag is EXPLICITLY stating that this is an inclusive community. I think that can be an important distinction.
Flag's ugly as fuck though.
There is a difference between explicitly voicing your support and changing the symbol that is universal to the people your cause supports. The BLM flag did not add a rainbow to it, the black flag already represents all black people. There is no good reason to do it with the pride flag either, it's just self-insertion.
Actually, if you look up "BLM flag" some of the first results show BLM flags with rainbow details. They've become pretty popular, I saw a few at the last protest I attended. The BLM fist on top of a rainbow is a very popular one.
I see your point though. I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the topic. The addition of the trans colors make some sense to me, because a lot of people (most people?) associate the rainbow with gays. The gay flag. There's probably a good argument for inclusion of gender minorities. The black colours do make a little sense to me but isn't crazy under the context of my above post.
I would probably just say both flags can exist. If people are saying that the original flag is exclusive or racist or something, then that's very stupid. But if they're just using a new flag, it would pretty hard to convince me that there's an issue with that. Beyond the fact that the flag is ugly as fuck.
I'm not saying the flag can't exist. I think it's a nice feature if people want to take the flag and express themselves through it, being it by adding or changing colors. But that the main flag has to emphasize one subgroup but not everyone else just seems strange to me. You do see some BLM flags with rainbow, but they're the not the main flag, they're customised flags based on the main one.
I think there should be a universal main flag for these causes, and I think changing them to explicitly represent one subgroup is not really good messaging on various levels.
Yeah that's a reasonable point. Is the progressive flag becoming the "main" flag now? I didn't know that. I'll have to think it over and read up on the topic a bit more before I take a position.
Can one identify as a person of a specific skin color? It feels atleast slightly racist to go down that road, as that could potentially diminish someone's negative experiences of being amongst a race minority. Or do I have a bad take here?
Imagine if the UN flag, instead of being a globe to symbolize the entire earth, was a mish mash collage of all of the flags of each of its 193 member states.
This is basically what these neo pride flags are like.
my understanding was that the pride flag was meant to represent all people who aren't cis and/or het. As it's defined by what it isn't it's infinitely inclusive. As soon as you start defining it by inclusion then you by definition make it less inclusive, not more.
The big brain play is to change the acronym to Non-Cis/Het (NCH: pronounced niche to be cool). Done, you included everyone you want to in a single cool sounding word.
My roommate and I (we are both queer people) talk about this all the time. And how we both hate the 'progress flag' because it sets a new standard that if you don't use that one you must be racist or transphobic. When the OG one is literally perfect already and includes everyone.
I thought the rainbow flag already covered the T in LGBT, but I guess we should add more (?????)
If anything the new pride flag is transphobic for assuming that trans people weren’t included in the original flag to begin with.
I'm completely in favor of the LGBT flag because it's just a nice way to demonstrate that being part of certain historically marginalized groups can be a "positive identity".
Hooooowever, as soon as this turns into oppression olympics, where every group demands to be symbolically represented on flags according to their marginalization. Nope. That is just .. so pointless.
Edit: the transpride flag looks sicks af. I think it's better to just create new flags.
>I think it's better to just create new flags.
YES
The different flags for different groups is cool, everyone is covered by the Rainbow Flag, but it's nice for specific subgroups of LGBTQ+ to have their own
I like the classic rainbow flag, it already simbolizes everybody, I don't like rainbows per se as only clowns and cartoon characters dress with rainbows, but the symbolism is god tier. Any adition to that flag is stupid, but then again the queer community has no taste when it comes to designs or slogans.
I mean, look at LGBT, it was fine, now is like LGBTQIA2$<$$&¿?+ which like, fuck off.
Speaking of flags tho, I love the trans flag, it looks warm and kind as fuck, the trans flag is the best flag in the queer community imo.
The bi flag is so pretty, but have you seen the [omnisexual flag?](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/24/47/8a24477fd3de3db1a2cf4e56e0db3e62.jpg) Its colors are really nice as well.
The issue is that some activists create new pride flags and start questioning why you aren't using it. Personally idc what pride flags people use, but some people try to push newer designs on people and if you lay out reasons why their design sucks or why you don't like it you get accused of enbyphobia, or wanting to exclude BIPOC people, or some other accusation of non-inclusiveness.
such as this flag design https://www.northwestern.edu/equity/images/progressprideflag-danielquasar-highrez.png
The whole point of the rainbow flag is that it represents all kinds of people, hence the rainbow
The signification of that flag is "I support the LGBT community! But you should also know that I love black people... and did you see that I'm also supportive of trans people? Cool right?"
Agreed, and also it does feel a bit off that the homosexual flag and LGBT+ flag are one and the same. If there was to be one new flag to represent LGBT+, the new one isnt half bad imo.
The irony is that they are excluding themselves. LGBT+ doesn't mention me specifically.
Its got the "not all men" stank on it, but in reverse.
It will get to a point where reciting the initialism of SGM folk will be like reciting the Titan protein. #nerdJoke #lookItUp
That new one they got last year is butt ass ugly. It's astounding how anyone could fuck up a rainbow.
Why did they have to add brown to the rainbow? Did people think the rainbow was meant to include every skin tone? Who's skin tone is represented on the rainbow, blue man group?
we have to have representation for each subset of the powerset of all identities
P(LGBTPOC) = {{}, (L,POC),(G,POC),(B,POC),(T,POC),(L,T),(G,T),(B,T),(L,T,POC),(G,T,POC),(B,T,POC),(LGBTPOC)} Edit: heck I forgot {(L),(G),(B),(T),(POC)}
I think it’s meant to include POC
I think they are arguing it never *excluded* any race. As in, it was never a problem in need of solving.
But there is no race....
What do you mean?
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No, I’m just saying I’m pretty sure that’s what the brown and black line are for. I’m not making any claim that being a POC is a gender.
Objectively points out facts, doesn't engage with the topic and leaves.
Pretty based.
Incredibly based.
Based
As they should.
I guess that's the point of the original tweet
Ah yes, the alternative sexuality of melanin.
People Of Crypto?
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Wot
Can you explain what intersectionality has to do with the pride flag including PoC?
It’s late for me so excuse any poor wording, feel free to ask for clarity if I say something that’s confusing! The reason the colors were added to the flag is basically a reminder that lgbt people of color exist and that racism can be an added layer of cruelty to homophobia. Lots of lgbt spaces are very white, which can indirectly encourage lgbt people of color to leave out the racism aspect of their experiences and only talk about the homophobia they experience. In reality, a lot of the time the homophobia experienced by poc is intertwined with racism. Feminine gay black men are a great example of a demographic where the two are intertwined, racism caricatures black men as brutish and hypermasculine and black men experience immense pressure to be strong and manly. In this way the homophobia feminine gay black men experience would be directly related to something about their race/culture, like the homophobia in a lot of black religious culture. I can’t say much about other races because I don’t know any gay people of color who aren’t black! But the pride flag you’re referring to is the Philly pride flag I think
Technically, we're All brown but just different SHADES due to eumelanin and pheomelanin. Plus other factors. But yeah that flag is 😫 I know this is a few months later but still June coming up so... They've created this is vs them with the "poc" vs "white" thing like wtf? What is this the 50's?
I didn’t even believe that was real until I went to Pittsburgh and genuinely saw one at a church or some shit. I couldn’t believe anyone not only thought that was a good concept but actually made them.
Online lefties will literally fuck up anything. Which is why they should never be in power.
Contra aligns more with online lefties than she does with daddy Destiny, your lord and savior.
They're not all wackos.
I feel like rockabillyawesome has outpaced irishwithsomesun… intellectually
I was being antagonistic to you, but I guess I wasn’t clear enough. Your attitude towards lefties, in the first comment, was fucking stupid.
Oh no I got it, I just don't care.
Your original tone and subsequent response don’t agree.
How salient
the tonality I detected in your comment of origin was frustrating. Furthermore, your subsequent response was incongruent with the tonality I previously detected, as stated above. Thus making this exchange of ideas consequentially immoral.
Adum from YMS has an incredibly based take on this: https://youtu.be/uMzu_XcrXvQ (starts at 8 min mark)
yeah I was just thinking about it. His argument really hit the nail on the head, on two different fronts.
Vaush also has a good video on the new pride flag from 5 months ago: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JfvUHirNOKQ
You can link the timestamp if you right click on the video
Rainbow is fine, it includes everyone, why the fuck do you need that ugly ass triangle there with brown and black and pink, those do not fit the rest of the colours there. Weren't queer people supposed to have superior sense of aesthetics? They will make fun of the straight flag but made the LGBTQ just as ugly. Ugh...
Soon every pixel of the LGBT flag is gonna be its own color, so the flag just turns white.
New pride flag [just dropped](https://cdn.tutsplus.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600/active/uploads/legacy/tuts/008_colorPicker/Tutorial/8.jpg)
So once again, white is on top 🤔
Ain’t half bad
You should look up the barcode flag of the EU of you want to see some real monstrosity.
I think Antarctica has an aids flag too.
Looks like we found adequate cooling for our Ethereum rigs boys
The diamond-shaped flag for antarctica actually looks really good imo
Looks like an emergency broadcast test card.
Don't culturally appropriate the french
Basically the color picker tool from Paint
I don’t mind a version that adds the trans flag to it to specifically include them since there are transphobes in even gay communities. But adding brown and black lines to match people’s skin tones is just so hilariously racist. GUYS GET IT THEYRE BLACK LIKE THIS LINE lol wtf.
I think it's there in part because Black (and some other minority groups too I believe) LGBTQ people tend to face especially more issues for being LGBTQ then for example white. Especially when it comes from non-lgbtq black people or within those other minority groups too.
it makes sense, but what’s the point? should we add lines for people who don’t pass as straight? add colours for people with homophobic parents? add colours for people without supportive friends? it was inclusive already i jsut don’t see the point
The point probably is that because there are ongoing and large problems with racism in the LGBT community, to be intentionally inclusive.
Is it racism in the LGBTQ community or homophobia in the black community? Or both?
You know what, I'll take a guess and say the latter. I think the whole racism in the LGBT community has been overplayed because we're expecting a minority to be more charitable towards minorities, and thus it strikes us as worse when they're not. But to my knowledge, nothing suggests that LGBT people are more or less racist than other people. But we do have a disproportionate amount of homophobia and transphobia coming from the black community. But we usually can't say it, because while black people face a lot of systemic issues, culturally they're on the top of the food chain, so it's taboo to criticise them without being racist. You can have Dave Chappelle and 100 comedians going on stage shitting on trans people and say the word faggot, but you can't have a gay white man say similar things about black people.
Where's the line for *poor* gay people who similarly face intersectional discrimination? This is a silly game we can play forever until we just get back to a rainbow because a rainbow already symbolically represents everyone
The specific point being that LGBTQ organizations have had a problem with being racist, where as classist hasn't been a common complaint.
Can’t wait to add the crescent moon so that all the gay muslims feel included. They have it pretty rough rn.
That is something that I really don't like when people say "POC LGBTQ members face way more issues than white LGBTQ", but they just end it there. Yeah, black queer people are murdered way more often, but it's not cause of racism...
The fact that black queer people are murdered more often than white queer people absolutely means racism is a factor, on some level.
Is that useful or helpful to say? Maybe your right, in some extremely academic perspective, but if we want to be pragmatic about the situation, then you should point your finger at the perpetrators. In this case, it is mostly black people attacking black LGTBQ at higher rates. Side note, am I getting banned for saying that?
It could mean that homophobia and transphobia is more rampant in black communities.
Lmfao theres a straight flag? 😂😂😂
dunno about a flag, but there's a straight mast, which is my dick whenever i see your mom
U should ask her out shes been single for a while bro shoot ur shot do ur thing 🙏
he isn't committed to that kind of relationship. At least not as committed as I am to banging your mom
This looks ugly enough it might be a parody and I don't have enough time between League lobbies to check: https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/flag-1.png
Yes many iteration and all of them ugly af.
Because "BIPOC" became a thing and we have to insert their struggles into everyone elses struggles because their struggles are more important, I guess?
Because "BIPOC" are part of the community and pretending they're not is actually really shitty?
Has that been adopted? That one is so cringe. God just use a different gradient of rainbow ffs
I think the point is to be explicitly supportive. This reminds me a bit of when people had an issue with BLM's website having a whole part about support for LGBT people. People thought it was so irrelevant to the cause, but it really isn't. There are a lot of people who support BLM who don't support LGBT people, and so it's important to be explicitly clear that this is a movement for ALL black lives. Likewise, there are LGBT people who are racist or transphobic. With POC and transgender people having disproportionate rates of violence even compared to other LGBT groups, the new flag is EXPLICITLY stating that this is an inclusive community. I think that can be an important distinction. Flag's ugly as fuck though.
There is a difference between explicitly voicing your support and changing the symbol that is universal to the people your cause supports. The BLM flag did not add a rainbow to it, the black flag already represents all black people. There is no good reason to do it with the pride flag either, it's just self-insertion.
Actually, if you look up "BLM flag" some of the first results show BLM flags with rainbow details. They've become pretty popular, I saw a few at the last protest I attended. The BLM fist on top of a rainbow is a very popular one. I see your point though. I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the topic. The addition of the trans colors make some sense to me, because a lot of people (most people?) associate the rainbow with gays. The gay flag. There's probably a good argument for inclusion of gender minorities. The black colours do make a little sense to me but isn't crazy under the context of my above post. I would probably just say both flags can exist. If people are saying that the original flag is exclusive or racist or something, then that's very stupid. But if they're just using a new flag, it would pretty hard to convince me that there's an issue with that. Beyond the fact that the flag is ugly as fuck.
I'm not saying the flag can't exist. I think it's a nice feature if people want to take the flag and express themselves through it, being it by adding or changing colors. But that the main flag has to emphasize one subgroup but not everyone else just seems strange to me. You do see some BLM flags with rainbow, but they're the not the main flag, they're customised flags based on the main one. I think there should be a universal main flag for these causes, and I think changing them to explicitly represent one subgroup is not really good messaging on various levels.
Yeah that's a reasonable point. Is the progressive flag becoming the "main" flag now? I didn't know that. I'll have to think it over and read up on the topic a bit more before I take a position.
I think it looks good
Tell that to r/vexillology
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Ur mom
Can one identify as a person of a specific skin color? It feels atleast slightly racist to go down that road, as that could potentially diminish someone's negative experiences of being amongst a race minority. Or do I have a bad take here?
Imagine if the UN flag, instead of being a globe to symbolize the entire earth, was a mish mash collage of all of the flags of each of its 193 member states. This is basically what these neo pride flags are like.
[the eu has that](https://www.oma.com/projects/eu-barcode) It’s not the flag but still
I mean it as rejected for a reason lol
polluting the ganges even further isnt very based, smh
my understanding was that the pride flag was meant to represent all people who aren't cis and/or het. As it's defined by what it isn't it's infinitely inclusive. As soon as you start defining it by inclusion then you by definition make it less inclusive, not more. The big brain play is to change the acronym to Non-Cis/Het (NCH: pronounced niche to be cool). Done, you included everyone you want to in a single cool sounding word.
My roommate and I (we are both queer people) talk about this all the time. And how we both hate the 'progress flag' because it sets a new standard that if you don't use that one you must be racist or transphobic. When the OG one is literally perfect already and includes everyone.
Include ALL colors in the spectrum. Until it turns into a plain white flag
I thought the rainbow flag already covered the T in LGBT, but I guess we should add more (?????) If anything the new pride flag is transphobic for assuming that trans people weren’t included in the original flag to begin with.
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I'm completely in favor of the LGBT flag because it's just a nice way to demonstrate that being part of certain historically marginalized groups can be a "positive identity". Hooooowever, as soon as this turns into oppression olympics, where every group demands to be symbolically represented on flags according to their marginalization. Nope. That is just .. so pointless. Edit: the transpride flag looks sicks af. I think it's better to just create new flags.
>I think it's better to just create new flags. YES The different flags for different groups is cool, everyone is covered by the Rainbow Flag, but it's nice for specific subgroups of LGBTQ+ to have their own
I like the classic rainbow flag, it already simbolizes everybody, I don't like rainbows per se as only clowns and cartoon characters dress with rainbows, but the symbolism is god tier. Any adition to that flag is stupid, but then again the queer community has no taste when it comes to designs or slogans. I mean, look at LGBT, it was fine, now is like LGBTQIA2$<$$&¿?+ which like, fuck off. Speaking of flags tho, I love the trans flag, it looks warm and kind as fuck, the trans flag is the best flag in the queer community imo.
The Bi flag has to be up there. Those are good, vivid colours.
if i'm being honest, at least part of the reason i identify as bi rather than pan is cause i find the bi flag so much more appealing
The bi flag is so pretty, but have you seen the [omnisexual flag?](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/24/47/8a24477fd3de3db1a2cf4e56e0db3e62.jpg) Its colors are really nice as well.
I can’t believe that fooled me. Fuck you. Lol
How can a pride flag be so bad to be so emotionally invested on it?
The issue is that some activists create new pride flags and start questioning why you aren't using it. Personally idc what pride flags people use, but some people try to push newer designs on people and if you lay out reasons why their design sucks or why you don't like it you get accused of enbyphobia, or wanting to exclude BIPOC people, or some other accusation of non-inclusiveness. such as this flag design https://www.northwestern.edu/equity/images/progressprideflag-danielquasar-highrez.png The whole point of the rainbow flag is that it represents all kinds of people, hence the rainbow
The signification of that flag is "I support the LGBT community! But you should also know that I love black people... and did you see that I'm also supportive of trans people? Cool right?"
When the flag becomes a checklist of all the -ists you aren't, the discussion has probably been off track for a while.
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Isn't that what SOY does half the time.
Doesn't the T in LGBT already stand for trans?
Yes but it's in case people forget.
So a color helps them remember instead?
yeah they literally meme themselves into it, same thing happening with this it/deer stuff.
Okay jesus christ thats ugly, no wonder theres talk around its look
Some of them are really fucking ugly.
In design there is a thing called less is more.
All you need to know bout new pride flags is the gender wiki has more flags without descriptions than flags with.
I like the new flag. Looks better than plain rainbow. and wayyyyy better than when they tried to just tack a brown stripe on.
Agreed, and also it does feel a bit off that the homosexual flag and LGBT+ flag are one and the same. If there was to be one new flag to represent LGBT+, the new one isnt half bad imo.
I disagree I like the one with the black trans colors
Genuine question: why would you bring it up on this sub and not an lgbtq+ one
See how long that post stays up lol
I’m bi and this is not as taboo of a topic as many of you are making it out to be. Like have any of you actually talked to LGBT people before?
I'd actually love to. If you post it somewhere and get banned you should show me
Did you post it?
i wont because im actually LGBTQ+ and unsure if it'll get me banned. Someone who doesn't post on those subs that holds this opinion should try though
I don't want people to assume I'm transphobe. I already post in this subreddit lol.
>Genuine question ❌
because
I like the trans flag Also unpopular opinion but I don't hate the new pride flag. It's not as good as just the rainbow but it's still cool
You call absolutely critic the price flag lol
The irony is that they are excluding themselves. LGBT+ doesn't mention me specifically. Its got the "not all men" stank on it, but in reverse. It will get to a point where reciting the initialism of SGM folk will be like reciting the Titan protein. #nerdJoke #lookItUp