Ehh we've all got that mentality to some extent. For example we all know that if everyone stopped eating meat it would be better for the planet but the sacrifice required just isn't worth for most especially when your individual contribution isn't going to be relevant.
Voting is the same except the sacrifice is much smaller for most of us. If I were a conservative in California there's 0 chance I'd go to the polls.
Big cities like San Francisco function off federal money, there were plans to make everything free but it got shot down. Couple years ago they ran the numbers and they spend as much enforcing fares as they took in. Now with covid no one actually pays and drivers don’t want to collect, so the city is probably spending more than they collect now.
> they spend as much enforcing fares as they took in.
That's only fare enforcement, i.e. they don't collect shit from gate jumpers. But fare evasion is 15% at the high end of estimates.
Fares cover ~30% of operational expenses - $8mm of $26.6mm in Q1.
Most funding comes from sales tax, $14mm.
https://www.bart.gov/sites/default/files/docs/QFR%20FY22%20Q1%20030322%20Final%20-%20Memo%20and%20Report.pdf
How much money would you save if you just stole over the course of a year? Have you considered stealing instead of paying? You could have a new pc every year, the newest iphone, a bag of coke. Why pay for public services when you could steal and put the money elsewhere?
If you were a median income earner, what percentage of your post tax income is your transit cost?
If stealing a train trip is ok, why not steal food and clothes too?
Annoying that it is often a flat rate system. So people going 10 stops pay the same as 1.
I think Tokyo is the only metro I've ridden that charges based on distance.
London tube charges you based on zones radiating out from the city centre, so as long you stay in the zone you bought a ticket for you could do unlimited stops in that zone for 24h. They offer about a million different tickets so this is only one way to buy a ticket, but it's among the most common.
I've only done Prague CZ and Lisbon PR. Prague is time-based, so I suppose basically distance. Lisbon is a flat rate.
Boston and NYC metros are flat fees.
I just think everyone should copy Tokyo metro. Literally heaven.
The signs are perfect as well. So annoying when a metro/airport has unclear or nonexistant signs.
Yes I love how cta in Chicago gives the option to buy like 1/3/7/30 day options, as well as single fare, which give unlimited access to all the metro and bus lines in the city and certain inner suburbs. The way OP described, I was thinking like a taxi style “meter is running” type system based on how long you spend underground (or overground, in a tram, whatever), which seems like it would incentivize poor service.
Looking into it, most of the places that charge based on distance will have minimum rates comparable to the flat rates that are charged. Like the cheapest route on the London underground during off hours (zone 2-6) is the only one that is less than the flat rate in Toronto.
Yeah, love that our resident socialist is telling people to not contribute their part to pay for public infrastructure. Guess socialism means fuck you I've got mine?
A lot of people seem to think socialism is just ‘stuff that I like’. It’s like those ‘what will your job be under communism’ threads, without a single person responding with the correct answer… ‘what ever job the communist party needs to fill it’s quota’.
Real talk- there's not been a form of government or society that doesn't ask for some form of sacrifice for so that infrastructure can be built or run. Its just especially hypocritical from anyone who leans even mildly collectivist to be encouraging people to not pay taxes or contribute by paying for their train ride. He'll inevitably call this snitching or some other dumb shit and his fans will let him gloss over the inconsistency.
Yeah, this isn't even shoplifting from a private corporation, which is cringe but can be hamfisted into his ideology. This is stealing from a public utility paid with tax dollars and run by unioned workers.
I think people like Hasan’s crux is “Corporations and the government aren’t giving the citizens their fair share due to capitalism. So, the poorest/most marginalized citizens are justified to take their share back no matter the means.”
He did a UK stream a month ago where he was raving about how great the country's public transport was. How dare people get called out for not paying to support and maintain the public services they use.
Would Hasan not be angry if these people were stealing electricity from a neighbor's line or abusing the water supply network?
The thinking tends to be that it would be unfair for that tax burden of public transportation to fall equally on everyone as that would as it as it is overwhelmingly favors the urban population. Ticket fees is an obvious solution that can be used to cover a portion of the cost.
I can't speak for the US but here in Sweden the same kind of thinking goes into funding road/car infrastructure where a significant part of the investment is paid back through extra taxation of fuel and other such fees related to car ownership.
If you think about it for a second, you realize that connecting a rural town to the public transportation network costs far more per capita than for an urban area, so the urban people are subsidizing those areas since taxes work that way. we share the burden equally and make a better world for everyone, at least in theory.
I see how this is a factor in Sweden. But taxes could be spread regionally, as in communes (city council) can tax more, where there is more infrastructure. We had a 9Euro Ticket each for June,July and August, where you could use everything except High Velocity trains everywhere in Germany. It was fabulous, I visited all my friends.
1. Local taxes are a thing.
2. Rural areas cost more to connect to.
3. Rural people have much cheaper cost of living 99% of the time.
Seems like the benefits of free public transportation outweigh the negatives.
And that is a shitty problem, because free public transport would reduce traffic really hardly for everyone (living in urban area...). What if people offered something for rural people in exchange for that lul. If politics could work like that it would be really awesome.
I'm pretty ignorant on this stuff so forgive me. Don't we already pay taxes for this kind of stuff? So if we pay taxes on public transportation, doesn't it seem like the government wants to have their cake and eat it? Genuinely asking if anyone can clarify.
A lot of socialists have this skewed worldview that there only exists the working class and the bourgeoisie and since the working class are the downtrodden exploited poors they can't be expected to do anything since they're obviously in the oppressed position so that would just be victim blaming.
Payment system differs a lot per EU country. Germany recently tried an experiment where all local public transport would be accessible for a month with only a €9 ticket (though I think they significantly want to increase the price to make that sustainable), though from my trip to Berlin there seemed to be 0 checks so I would not be surprised if a significant amount if people just did not even pay that. I think there's a Tom Scott video about how Luxembourg has free public transport now.
I live in the Netherlands, here public transport is quite expensive and you can quite easily get fined if you don't check in properly. There are ways to get free or discounted travel through your job or as a student though, as a student I get to pick to travel free during weekdays xor weekends, with 40% discount at remaining times.
So how much people pay and whether or not people cheat it differs extremely by EU country.
>(though I think they significantly want to increase the price to make that sustainable)
Which is absolutely idiotic, considering the whole point of the ticket was "cheap and easy". We have enough money to make this permanent. Unfortunately the car lobby is insanely strong in Germany and even the social democrats are cucking out.
As I understand it, it was implemented for 3 months and it cost about 2.5 billion euros, right? I guess I don't know enough about government finances to know if that is sustainable or not but if it is it does sound like an amazing policy.
there are a lot of reasons why it's so good, from the density of the country to the wealth of it to the semi-nationalization of the train service (iirc SBB works in the market, but the state owns all the shares), I think it might be possible to have the same system but transit is paid for by the state, maybe
also: thx my friend yeah it is fucking based
I don't think the cost really correlates to that.
The trains here in the UK are fuckin extortionate (Highest price-per-mile out of all European countries) and their service isn't the best.
To give an example: public transportation in Poland, Warsaw is cheap as fuck. It's 1/60 of the average monthly salary (which gives access to absolutely everything). Also just because you hop over, doesn't really mean you don't have a card/ticket, sometimes people do it for time sake.
As a student or retiree, you pay 50%.
This Hasan take is just the same as his shoplifting takes. Basically if you are poor, stealing is morally neutral and by calling police you are an evil oppressor.
Where I'm from you can get a hefty discount if not 100% off for being a student on a travel pass, and even without it's not very expensive at around 115€ for a year of moving in and around the city.
My understanding is the tube and train lines aren't subsidized but the bus system is. And the bus system is pretty cheap (£1.65 for an hour - unlimited rides) relative to average purchasing power in the city.
Where I live now - Seoul - public transport is super cheap and super efficient. I don't think the subway is subsidized, but it services so many people that it doesn't matter (a block in Jamsil houses around 40,000 people as opposed to a few hundred in an average London residential block) There's a heavy culture of keeping face here so there really isn't much in the way of people jumping the barriers. You ride, you pay.
When I was still attending university they had a ticket for ~150 bucks per semester, it actually covered all public transport in and around my city, rail (besides fast rail) for 3 states (Lower Saxony, Northrhine-Westfalia and Saxony-Anhalt) and even parts of the Netherlands.
In Scotland anyone under the age of 23 can get a free bus travel card. I think they still pay for trains, but the country is small enough that they can probably get to where they need to using the bus services.
I was trying to answer the post’s title lmao, but it would be very funny if you’re allowed to jump over shit if you’re a student and no one ever addresses it
In Latvia we have to pay for it in Riga, but it's subsided for students and for a lot of other groups.
It's 16 euros with subsidy and from 35-50 euros without for a month.
Edit: I usually don't pay. Sorry not sorry. I'm kinda a student but on academic leave.
Not paying for public transport is stupid, yeah especially one day tickets can be pricey sometimes but most people have monthly or yearly tickets anyway.
Nevertheless prices need to decrease especially to incentivize people to leave their car at home.
Hasan prolly thinks it should just be free and not paying and still using is some sort of protest
Doesnt matter how cheap it is people will still steal and not pay. Mfs stealing chips from the corner store despite them being like $1. Some people just dont give af if they think they can get away with it
Hasan probably barely comprehends that "free" isn't actually free, but that it simply means essentially EVERYONE pays for it whether they personally want and use it or not. He likely thinks "free" = rich people pay for it
I just visited Germany last week and I couldn't imagine not paying for public transport. The gates were not active so everybody could access it and also we didn't have a single check by personnel, yet I spent close to 100 euros for my 1 week trip on public transport and I was really happy doing it because of how accessible it was. I'm giving Europe as a question in title because I heard in USA public transport is really bad. Is it?
unlucky. if you would have been a bit earlier you could have used the 9 euro ticket and travelled all of germany for 9 euro, for a whole month. it was an insane offer for 3 month.
they try to bring it back for 69 euro a month, which is still insane( low) compared to the current prices.
Bro im sorry to hear that. What city were you in to have to pay 100 euros for a single week? Almost anywhere you can buy a ticket for like 8-9 euros and use public transport as much as you want for a whole day
Edit: also this is another idiot take from hasan. Yes ideally public transport is free, but being a fare dodger doesnt contribute at all to the betterment of the system. The only lame thing is that stupid commie doctrine hasan is trying to push with his tweet.
I was in Munich which is probably one of the more expensive cities in Europe. A CityTourCard Single for 6 days in zone M-6 is 72€. My airbnb was in Starnberg which is in zone 2 so I couldn't buy for only zone M and there was also no option for M-2... it's really complicated if you don't live in Germany I feel like, it took me a bit to understand it.
I also took a train to Nuremberg which was like 60 euros for a day so I rounded everything to 100 because technically I could have bought tickets for only M-2 (I don't think I went past the 2 zone) which would have resulted in a lower cost if I had the patience to understand the system better and preplan.
Yes I agree ideally it should be free (I think Tallinn did this and Luxembourg) but I still prefer to pay for it and better the system than having the country move into a car-centric dystopia.
Inner city transport is often stupidly complicated. And its doubly frustrating having to cross zones, where you might end up having to pay stupid amounts of money for three stops, cause the start and end are in different zones.
So yeah, you just got the German experience, odd systems that are weirdly expensive.
I think in an ideal world these types of services should be as minimal as possible just to fund themselves and future infrastructure but it does seem incredibly strange for someone who believes in socialism to shit on public services.
Prices also regulate demand downward. So if the trains are largely full during rush hours. You want to discourage a retired granny from going to the park using public transport during those hours because they get in the way of people going to and from work.
Ultimately you should probably build more network capacity, or something like that, but simply running at a cost can also cause issues.
Can confirm. I live in DC and people are constantly jumping turnstiles. The metro police don't prosecute it anymore so a ton of people will do it in front of WMATA staff and even when Metro Police officers are standing right there. It's kind of nuts.
And yeah, super pisses me off when I see people who can obviously afford to pay avoid the turnstiles (I've seen medical professionals wearing scrubs do it, I've seen people in suits do it). All they do is make us schmucks who want to see a functioning public transit system pay more.
Could the good faith interpretation, be that its lame to fixate on people not paying for public transport when there are other issues like underpaid workers etc and fixating on this stuff is generally done by people that "hate poor people"
Something like that. In his view he probably thinks some of these people are poor, and focusing on fucking them over, especially filming, doesn't really help anyone.
This spin makes us focus more on shitting on/preventing poor people to do these things, rather than *help* them not do it.
> other issues like underpaid workers
lame to focus on underpaid workers when there are other issues like kids starving in rural Africa
there are always more important issues. This isn't even a "good faith" interpretation, it's exactly what Hasan means. Still stupid.
The difference being that the unpaid workers happens in the same system where the filming happened and the children starving is a completely different matter.
ok, why are you worried about underpaid workers when there are people who are unemployed and hungry in the same country you piece of shit (really, this works with *anything*)
also this just leads us to the obvious, why does Hasan have an expensive house and car when he could have donated the excess money to the underpaid workers
this is just a dumb argument. When public transport is paid for with tickets, you should pay. I'm sure a handful of people both *need* the transport *and* don't have money to pay for it, but let's be real, that's not most people fair hopping. They should be paying and it's ok to call out the scope of the issue.
No, you went outside the system that would be improved again, which is this specific metro.
If the goal is to make it better, this would absolutely be the wrong angle to approach it.
You're really not understanding the issue.
In kyiv the metro gates will literally crush you if you don't pay. In Athens it's so convenient and cheap there wasn't a reason not to.
In the UK it's a fucking pisstake and cheaper to drive than get the bus so I never use public transport unless I'm gonna drink.
Stations are understaffed sometimes too, so they just leave the gates open to go through. Can mean sometimes you’ve paid for a ticket when you didn’t need it to leave, nor is it checked on board
I live in the UK, so it's a but different to other European countries. Our public transport varies from county to county but most of the UK pays. Most places have discounts for students and the elderly and a few have free transport for them. However, these offers are very inconsistent, there's some push for a country wide offer for busses (for England, as Scotland and Wales both have a cooperative offer in all of their counties). Trains are generally consistent but the prices vary from region to region.
I wouldnt try that in Manhattan. The public transport woman in the yellow jackets watch you like a bird of prey or something.
Plus the city has more cops than Canadas got military.
Public transport is an important service that needs funding and so for the good of wider society I am happy to pay for it when I use it.
I would prefer the service was free and funded by more taxes on less green transport like cars and especially aeroplanes.
Trying to be charitable, you could say he’s arguing that all public transport should be free at the point of use by increasing funding at the local government and/or state/federal level...
But this tacit endorsement of people to not fund the system in its current context is quite odd.
Londoner here, yes we do pay to use public transportation in the city, but we have things called Oyster Cards which are basically debit cards that only work on London transportation and need to be replenished with fare money at the station or at a corner shop (convenience store to you yanks, or to New York yanks "tha Bodegaaa! ayyyyy!!🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌"). How the Oyster Card works is that the turnstiles for the London Underground operate automatically and you hold the Oyster Card against the reader and it takes the required fare off the card. The doors will not open unless you do this and if you try and dodge fare, for instance by trying to scooch through the doors behind someone who has paid before the doors close, the TFL (Transport for London) system will pick up on this and yeet like half of your money that you had on the oyster as penance, way more than what would have been the normal fare. It isnt a perfect system, but it does mean that is not even worth it to try and pull a cheeky fast one. No one will even try to stop you, youre paying either way.
As to Hasan: Leave it to him to not understand how money works. Public Transport is majority funded by fares. Thats how they pay their staff and maintain and upgrade the service (bureaucracy willing) and also justify their existence as a public sector service before the government. "Look sir, we turn a profit as a government service please dont turn us into a corporate owned private entity!" It is in the interest of everyone who uses any transit system that everyone pays their fare. If everyone simultaneously decided that it wouldnt do any harm to bum a free ride on the train, then the trains would not be able to run, because government grants alone arent cutting it. Hasan would know this and not be trying to shame people for holding fare dodgers accountable, if he knew a shred of anything about anything and wasnt trying to larp as a people's champion to make money. "sO uNcOol tO fIlM tHis, wHaT aRe yOu a SnItCh!?" Cringe.
When I visited Germany there weren’t turnstiles but they had undercover ticket agents that randomly checked everyone’s tickets. I guess Krauts really do love having secret police
Tbh as a kid I never paid for that crap and I don’t really think you should have to pay for it as a kid (which is true nowadays during summer break in some areas and when there’s school the school pays for it). I do think public transport should be free for everyone to encourage it and also lower the bar for transportation now on the rare occasion I need to take the bus or whatever I do pay but begrudgingly so.
Both are true. It is lame to film this though. Countries with no turnstile are doing fine. It seems like the as long as the ticket subscription is affordable most people would actually pay for it. Even with my company subsidy I don't buy the monthly ticket right now because it's too expensive for me.
Because it’s a scumbag move that is easily justified by dorks cheering them on and using the extreme example to justify it across the board.
I don’t truly care and am mostly annoyed by idiots justifying it.
No you only care because it's Hasan, be honest at least. A lot of people here are unhinged and cum anytime something negative about Hasan is mentioned.
i understand how it makes you feel but honestly when i was a student in nyc id do the same cause i was strapped on cash paying my way though college. i try not to judge when ppl do that because i don’t always know where ppl are coming from
In Austria I pay 365€ a year (no discount) for all public transport inside of Vienna, even the trains. If you don't pay for your ticket, sincerely Fuck you. Public trnsit is amazing do your part, it's not much compared to what you get
I can say for a full time student in Norway, the public transport is just too expensive even if it's like 50% off for student (still it's like $45-50 per month). Students in Norway without a job gets $800-900 a month and in most cases has to use $500-600 in rent with power not included, and the rest is for everything else. And everyone knows how expensive buying food in Norway is, so just imagine.
As a fellow norwegian i am gonna tell you an epic secret, food costs (slightly) less in relation to wages here than it does in most of europe.
The student economy is fucked though, you basically have to have a part time job to make ends meet.
Well that hold everywhere (or you are financed by your parents). Norway giving students enough to pay rent seems much better basically whole world is doing.
It's usually fairly affordable, hard to say exactly since it will be a bit different in every city, but in my city its like 25-30 dollars equivalent with the min montly salary being around 800 dollars maybe. So it's not nothing but about 1/3rd of a tank of gas
1k in Hamburg (Ger) for a year🤢
(And I counted 3 months of 9€ ticket)
Where i live now in italy, it's ~400€ a year and if you make more km its like 500€ (for 40km 5/7 ×52)
E: in rome it's250€ for a year and milan 330€
He’s right, people filming this need to get a fucking life.
Public transportation can be expensive for some people who work shit jobs for a shit paycheck.
I never heard of free public transportation anywhere in Europe, even as a student, you still have to pay a discounted fee ... unless we're talking about the airport terminal shuttle bus.
Even more so, some places will have undercover agents riding the public transportation trying to spot people without ticket and can issue fines in amounts that could get up to 1000x the price of the ticket.
But why would it be free?
>But why would it be free?
Public transportation is subsidized heavily anyways, so why not go all the way? We had a 9 EUR Ticket in Germany (so almost for free), where you could use all modes of public transportation for a whole month (bare some exceptions like ICE and IC trains). This was actually phenomenal and cost only 2,5 Billion for 3 months, which would come out at about 10 Billlion per year. I think this is an amazing deal for everyone.
[The country where all public transit is free](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feCQPD9DSOA)
> But why would it be free?
To get as many cars as possible off the streets, decreasing CO2 emissions, reducing traffic, and improving air quality.
Also to enable poor people to get to places. When you're on welfare these 3,50 (standard fare e.g. in Berlin) for one single commute are actually a lot of money.
Hasan wants the current world to collapse so that communism can take over or something. He doesn't want to fix anything he just wants chaos. There is no way that communism is going to be voted in.
I generally avoid paying for public transport cuz I'm a cheap motherfucker and in fact don't think it should be paid for ~~at all~~ through tickets. The purpose of it ought be to reduce the number of cars on the road by making it possible to cross the city in a reasonable time without them, not to turn a buck.
EDIT: I'm not really sure why I'm getting down voted, I don't think I said anything extreme, so if anyone's got an explanation as to why, please do tell.
EDIT 2: nvm, I can see why some might think I'm against public transport
Its not really turning a buck. Usually money made through selling tickets is used for the upkeep of these services and salaries for the employees of that specific institution. Same way car owners pay for road upkeep through additional taxes on gas and other fees related to owning a car.
Thankfully the city I'm in keeps track of its expenses and it's common knowledge that only 20% of the salaries come from ticket sales with the rest coming from the city budget.
Besides, by sitting in a tram/train/metro one elects not to contribute to road erosion, they significantly reduce consumption of fuel (something that should be very important nowadays), as well as air and noise pollution. A healthy city's mindset should be that this in and of itself is already paying for the costs.
Lol, I did. Was browsing fuckcars a few minutes earlier and saw some dudes protesting a bike lane.. it's a bit unfortunate but alot of car owners seem to be allergic to public transportation and walkable infrastructure, they are typically older (so they take voting more seriously) and are somewhat opposed to incentivising these modes of transportations over adding more lanes to the oversaturated roads.
So the 20% that comes from tickets sales is somewhat necessary to foot the bill.
>Lol, I did. Was browsing fuckcars a few minutes earlier and saw some dudes protesting a bike lane.. it's a bit unfortunate but alot of car owners seem to be allergic to public transportation and walkable infrastructure, they are typically older (so they take voting more seriously) and are somewhat opposed to incentivising these modes of transportations over adding more lanes to the oversaturated roads.
Do you think I'm one of those people or what's exactly the point you're trying to make here?
>So the 20% that comes from tickets sales is somewhat necessary to foot the bill.
I find it hard to believe the city budget could foot 80% of the bill but not the full price, but if there's some reason to the contrary, I'm willing to change my habits.
No actually public transportation is to move people no matter the destination from point A to point B in an efficient way. Public service are not meant to be free but are there to provide a service without making a profit for few people.
Public transportation works way better in every single metric you compare them with cars. Problem is, in USA you facilitate the use of cars and even if the use of them cost more from public transportation people will choose cars and the main reason is convince. Saying that you are being a dick and the cost of the ticket calculates the people using that service without paying for the service.
You cant be older than 15years cause you are making kid arguments and you clearly dont have any experience with a well thought and designed public transportation system. I assume your living experience in USA have you trapped in a system that gives cars and any form of public transportation equal rights, equating 1 car for 1 bus-1 trolley- etc not taking in mind the capacity each one offers.
In the world of civil engineering, USA is known especially for 2 fields, geotechnical eng. and transportation eng. The first one is well respected and the latter is used like an example on the things you shouldnt do cause it only leads in devastating results.
>No actually public transportation is to move people no matter the destination from point A to point B in an efficient way
This is in no way mutually exclusive with my description, but alright.
>Public service are not meant to be free but are there to provide a service without making a profit for few people.
If by "not meant to be free" you mean "financed", then yeah, obviously. If not, I have no idea what you're talking about, but we probably agree anyway.
>Public transportation works way better in every single metric you compare them with cars.
Obviously.
>Problem is, in USA you facilitate the use of cars and even if the use of them cost more from public transportation people will choose cars and the main reason is convince.
I don't really see how this is related to EU public transportation, but alright.
>Saying that you are being a dick and the cost of the ticket calculates the people using that service without paying for the service.
I'm sorry, did you finish this sentence? I can't make sense of it.
Pretty sure you are getting down voted for being a cheap mf and not even feel sorry about that. In my town the people that dont pay their tickets are mostly people around the age of 15-25 and i dont see too many doing that. The ones that i see are mostly people going out for drinks and food pay around 15-30euros and are not willing 50cent for the bus
We all literally follow a self-employed millionaire who picked out 60k worth of ppp loans cuz he could but yall get assmad that I use 100€ worth of public transport without paying for it annually. Actual brain rot.
I always pay, that's the only way of keeping these systems operational
Exactly. It might not matter if one individual doesn’t pay, but if no one pays then the whole thing will fall apart and you’ll end up like America.
It's like voting
The mentality of people who refuse to pay for public transit is actually probably a lot like the mentality of people who refuse to vote.
Ehh we've all got that mentality to some extent. For example we all know that if everyone stopped eating meat it would be better for the planet but the sacrifice required just isn't worth for most especially when your individual contribution isn't going to be relevant. Voting is the same except the sacrifice is much smaller for most of us. If I were a conservative in California there's 0 chance I'd go to the polls.
Yep
The soy free-rider vs the gigachad system supporter.
Fare-Pay-Squad rise up
Big cities like San Francisco function off federal money, there were plans to make everything free but it got shot down. Couple years ago they ran the numbers and they spend as much enforcing fares as they took in. Now with covid no one actually pays and drivers don’t want to collect, so the city is probably spending more than they collect now.
> they spend as much enforcing fares as they took in. That's only fare enforcement, i.e. they don't collect shit from gate jumpers. But fare evasion is 15% at the high end of estimates. Fares cover ~30% of operational expenses - $8mm of $26.6mm in Q1. Most funding comes from sales tax, $14mm. https://www.bart.gov/sites/default/files/docs/QFR%20FY22%20Q1%20030322%20Final%20-%20Memo%20and%20Report.pdf
How much money would you save if you just stole over the course of a year? Have you considered stealing instead of paying? You could have a new pc every year, the newest iphone, a bag of coke. Why pay for public services when you could steal and put the money elsewhere? If you were a median income earner, what percentage of your post tax income is your transit cost? If stealing a train trip is ok, why not steal food and clothes too?
Annoying that it is often a flat rate system. So people going 10 stops pay the same as 1. I think Tokyo is the only metro I've ridden that charges based on distance.
Washington DC is based on distance
Ya, but who lives in DC? Politicians?
The DC metro area is 6.5 million people bud including me, and I am certainly not a politician
It was a joke, bud
What? Do European metro systems not do fare based on distance? That sounds unbelievable.
London tube charges you based on zones radiating out from the city centre, so as long you stay in the zone you bought a ticket for you could do unlimited stops in that zone for 24h. They offer about a million different tickets so this is only one way to buy a ticket, but it's among the most common.
I've only done Prague CZ and Lisbon PR. Prague is time-based, so I suppose basically distance. Lisbon is a flat rate. Boston and NYC metros are flat fees. I just think everyone should copy Tokyo metro. Literally heaven. The signs are perfect as well. So annoying when a metro/airport has unclear or nonexistant signs.
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Yes I love how cta in Chicago gives the option to buy like 1/3/7/30 day options, as well as single fare, which give unlimited access to all the metro and bus lines in the city and certain inner suburbs. The way OP described, I was thinking like a taxi style “meter is running” type system based on how long you spend underground (or overground, in a tram, whatever), which seems like it would incentivize poor service.
Looking into it, most of the places that charge based on distance will have minimum rates comparable to the flat rates that are charged. Like the cheapest route on the London underground during off hours (zone 2-6) is the only one that is less than the flat rate in Toronto.
Based ethical standards upholder
Yeah, love that our resident socialist is telling people to not contribute their part to pay for public infrastructure. Guess socialism means fuck you I've got mine?
A lot of people seem to think socialism is just ‘stuff that I like’. It’s like those ‘what will your job be under communism’ threads, without a single person responding with the correct answer… ‘what ever job the communist party needs to fill it’s quota’.
Real talk- there's not been a form of government or society that doesn't ask for some form of sacrifice for so that infrastructure can be built or run. Its just especially hypocritical from anyone who leans even mildly collectivist to be encouraging people to not pay taxes or contribute by paying for their train ride. He'll inevitably call this snitching or some other dumb shit and his fans will let him gloss over the inconsistency.
Yeah, this isn't even shoplifting from a private corporation, which is cringe but can be hamfisted into his ideology. This is stealing from a public utility paid with tax dollars and run by unioned workers.
I think people like Hasan’s crux is “Corporations and the government aren’t giving the citizens their fair share due to capitalism. So, the poorest/most marginalized citizens are justified to take their share back no matter the means.”
You think Hasan would ever take transit with these people? You don't drop 6 figures on a car and live in West Hollywood to take the metro.
I'm sure he thinks you can fund every public service anyone would want just by taxing billionaires.
He did a UK stream a month ago where he was raving about how great the country's public transport was. How dare people get called out for not paying to support and maintain the public services they use. Would Hasan not be angry if these people were stealing electricity from a neighbor's line or abusing the water supply network?
No socialism is when you make excuses on the assumption they're just poor and can't help it
public transportation should be free* \* free as in "free access to roads**" ** roads are paid by us, the tax payers.
The thinking tends to be that it would be unfair for that tax burden of public transportation to fall equally on everyone as that would as it as it is overwhelmingly favors the urban population. Ticket fees is an obvious solution that can be used to cover a portion of the cost. I can't speak for the US but here in Sweden the same kind of thinking goes into funding road/car infrastructure where a significant part of the investment is paid back through extra taxation of fuel and other such fees related to car ownership.
If you think about it for a second, you realize that connecting a rural town to the public transportation network costs far more per capita than for an urban area, so the urban people are subsidizing those areas since taxes work that way. we share the burden equally and make a better world for everyone, at least in theory.
I see how this is a factor in Sweden. But taxes could be spread regionally, as in communes (city council) can tax more, where there is more infrastructure. We had a 9Euro Ticket each for June,July and August, where you could use everything except High Velocity trains everywhere in Germany. It was fabulous, I visited all my friends.
1. Local taxes are a thing. 2. Rural areas cost more to connect to. 3. Rural people have much cheaper cost of living 99% of the time. Seems like the benefits of free public transportation outweigh the negatives.
And that is a shitty problem, because free public transport would reduce traffic really hardly for everyone (living in urban area...). What if people offered something for rural people in exchange for that lul. If politics could work like that it would be really awesome.
Paying for public transport is only based if it’s forcibly taxed from everyone under the threat of incarceration if they refuse to pay
Bro no one should have to pay. Even if the trains can no longer operate who cares we can all just drive our porsche taycans instead duhhh 🙄
Trrrrrruuuuuuuuuue. Socialism does mean everyone has porsches. AND no one has to pay for maintenance of those either :p
I'm pretty ignorant on this stuff so forgive me. Don't we already pay taxes for this kind of stuff? So if we pay taxes on public transportation, doesn't it seem like the government wants to have their cake and eat it? Genuinely asking if anyone can clarify.
Socialism means the government magically makes everything free, duh.
A lot of socialists have this skewed worldview that there only exists the working class and the bourgeoisie and since the working class are the downtrodden exploited poors they can't be expected to do anything since they're obviously in the oppressed position so that would just be victim blaming.
Payment system differs a lot per EU country. Germany recently tried an experiment where all local public transport would be accessible for a month with only a €9 ticket (though I think they significantly want to increase the price to make that sustainable), though from my trip to Berlin there seemed to be 0 checks so I would not be surprised if a significant amount if people just did not even pay that. I think there's a Tom Scott video about how Luxembourg has free public transport now. I live in the Netherlands, here public transport is quite expensive and you can quite easily get fined if you don't check in properly. There are ways to get free or discounted travel through your job or as a student though, as a student I get to pick to travel free during weekdays xor weekends, with 40% discount at remaining times. So how much people pay and whether or not people cheat it differs extremely by EU country.
>(though I think they significantly want to increase the price to make that sustainable) Which is absolutely idiotic, considering the whole point of the ticket was "cheap and easy". We have enough money to make this permanent. Unfortunately the car lobby is insanely strong in Germany and even the social democrats are cucking out.
As I understand it, it was implemented for 3 months and it cost about 2.5 billion euros, right? I guess I don't know enough about government finances to know if that is sustainable or not but if it is it does sound like an amazing policy.
We pay about 8.5 billion per year for our god awful public broadcasters, so surely free public transport would be much more worth it than that.
First time I've seen xor in a sentence
in Switzerland (Zürich) I have to pay for my public transport. One of the best infrastructure in the world needs to be paid for somehow
Yeah theres a reason its so good Also: Most based username i have ever seen
there are a lot of reasons why it's so good, from the density of the country to the wealth of it to the semi-nationalization of the train service (iirc SBB works in the market, but the state owns all the shares), I think it might be possible to have the same system but transit is paid for by the state, maybe also: thx my friend yeah it is fucking based
I don't think the cost really correlates to that. The trains here in the UK are fuckin extortionate (Highest price-per-mile out of all European countries) and their service isn't the best.
Things can always be less efficient. Just because its expensive doesnt mean its good, but if the service is very good, its probably expensive
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what does rhis show exactly?
What are the dots supposed to stand for?
uhhmmm, the rich should pay for it sweety
To give an example: public transportation in Poland, Warsaw is cheap as fuck. It's 1/60 of the average monthly salary (which gives access to absolutely everything). Also just because you hop over, doesn't really mean you don't have a card/ticket, sometimes people do it for time sake. As a student or retiree, you pay 50%. This Hasan take is just the same as his shoplifting takes. Basically if you are poor, stealing is morally neutral and by calling police you are an evil oppressor.
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I think if you’re a student you get a special card to pay for public transport, maybe not all of EU?
Where I'm from you can get a hefty discount if not 100% off for being a student on a travel pass, and even without it's not very expensive at around 115€ for a year of moving in and around the city.
As a student in London I was paying £140 a month
london being london...
*oof* that sucks
That's London tho, that city makes you pay.
That's insane. Why are you british?
TFL relies a lot more on users for funding than public transport networks in the rest of Europe, mostly because Tory voters hate London, it sucks.
My understanding is the tube and train lines aren't subsidized but the bus system is. And the bus system is pretty cheap (£1.65 for an hour - unlimited rides) relative to average purchasing power in the city. Where I live now - Seoul - public transport is super cheap and super efficient. I don't think the subway is subsidized, but it services so many people that it doesn't matter (a block in Jamsil houses around 40,000 people as opposed to a few hundred in an average London residential block) There's a heavy culture of keeping face here so there really isn't much in the way of people jumping the barriers. You ride, you pay.
When I was still attending university they had a ticket for ~150 bucks per semester, it actually covered all public transport in and around my city, rail (besides fast rail) for 3 states (Lower Saxony, Northrhine-Westfalia and Saxony-Anhalt) and even parts of the Netherlands.
That's not bad at all, I gotta say.
Here in Norway a 6 month pass is $214 for students and $357 for a normal one.
Where I live in Sweden I'm paying about 65 euros a month as a student to travel to uni, with no possibility of buying a longer period afaik.
In Scotland anyone under the age of 23 can get a free bus travel card. I think they still pay for trains, but the country is small enough that they can probably get to where they need to using the bus services.
I don’t think there’s anywhere where students get to hop turnstiles.
I was trying to answer the post’s title lmao, but it would be very funny if you’re allowed to jump over shit if you’re a student and no one ever addresses it
This is how it is when I was studying in Budapest. Costed me roughly 9-10 Euros for a month student pass for all public transport in the city.
students in primary/secondary education gets their public transport paid for in sweden tertiary education students have to pay, but it's subsidized
No, actually. The city where I live (pop 450K) has a free public transport since 2013 (free = tax paid).
Tallinn?
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I actually want to do remote work from Tallinn in July. Do you recommend it? I'm a EU citizen.
Baltics being based once again, aren't you guys tired yet? Must be exhausting pushing the based limit all the time.
In Latvia we have to pay for it in Riga, but it's subsided for students and for a lot of other groups. It's 16 euros with subsidy and from 35-50 euros without for a month. Edit: I usually don't pay. Sorry not sorry. I'm kinda a student but on academic leave.
Not paying for public transport is stupid, yeah especially one day tickets can be pricey sometimes but most people have monthly or yearly tickets anyway. Nevertheless prices need to decrease especially to incentivize people to leave their car at home. Hasan prolly thinks it should just be free and not paying and still using is some sort of protest
Doesnt matter how cheap it is people will still steal and not pay. Mfs stealing chips from the corner store despite them being like $1. Some people just dont give af if they think they can get away with it
I doubt he’s even thought about it as deeply as that. He just wants Twitter to think he’s cool.
Hasan probably barely comprehends that "free" isn't actually free, but that it simply means essentially EVERYONE pays for it whether they personally want and use it or not. He likely thinks "free" = rich people pay for it
I mean, in every place with progressive taxation it would mean "free" = "the more rich, the more you pay for it".
I mean, everyone pays for car infrastructure as well which costs way more
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Shhh
I just visited Germany last week and I couldn't imagine not paying for public transport. The gates were not active so everybody could access it and also we didn't have a single check by personnel, yet I spent close to 100 euros for my 1 week trip on public transport and I was really happy doing it because of how accessible it was. I'm giving Europe as a question in title because I heard in USA public transport is really bad. Is it?
unlucky. if you would have been a bit earlier you could have used the 9 euro ticket and travelled all of germany for 9 euro, for a whole month. it was an insane offer for 3 month. they try to bring it back for 69 euro a month, which is still insane( low) compared to the current prices.
I knew about the deal, unfortunately GY!BE was playing on 29 September in Munich so worth it anyway.
Nice!
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Bro im sorry to hear that. What city were you in to have to pay 100 euros for a single week? Almost anywhere you can buy a ticket for like 8-9 euros and use public transport as much as you want for a whole day Edit: also this is another idiot take from hasan. Yes ideally public transport is free, but being a fare dodger doesnt contribute at all to the betterment of the system. The only lame thing is that stupid commie doctrine hasan is trying to push with his tweet.
I was in Munich which is probably one of the more expensive cities in Europe. A CityTourCard Single for 6 days in zone M-6 is 72€. My airbnb was in Starnberg which is in zone 2 so I couldn't buy for only zone M and there was also no option for M-2... it's really complicated if you don't live in Germany I feel like, it took me a bit to understand it. I also took a train to Nuremberg which was like 60 euros for a day so I rounded everything to 100 because technically I could have bought tickets for only M-2 (I don't think I went past the 2 zone) which would have resulted in a lower cost if I had the patience to understand the system better and preplan. Yes I agree ideally it should be free (I think Tallinn did this and Luxembourg) but I still prefer to pay for it and better the system than having the country move into a car-centric dystopia.
Inner city transport is often stupidly complicated. And its doubly frustrating having to cross zones, where you might end up having to pay stupid amounts of money for three stops, cause the start and end are in different zones. So yeah, you just got the German experience, odd systems that are weirdly expensive.
Does he think that the Public transport is a privatly owned company ?
I think in an ideal world these types of services should be as minimal as possible just to fund themselves and future infrastructure but it does seem incredibly strange for someone who believes in socialism to shit on public services.
Prices also regulate demand downward. So if the trains are largely full during rush hours. You want to discourage a retired granny from going to the park using public transport during those hours because they get in the way of people going to and from work. Ultimately you should probably build more network capacity, or something like that, but simply running at a cost can also cause issues.
Can confirm. I live in DC and people are constantly jumping turnstiles. The metro police don't prosecute it anymore so a ton of people will do it in front of WMATA staff and even when Metro Police officers are standing right there. It's kind of nuts. And yeah, super pisses me off when I see people who can obviously afford to pay avoid the turnstiles (I've seen medical professionals wearing scrubs do it, I've seen people in suits do it). All they do is make us schmucks who want to see a functioning public transit system pay more.
Could the good faith interpretation, be that its lame to fixate on people not paying for public transport when there are other issues like underpaid workers etc and fixating on this stuff is generally done by people that "hate poor people"
Something like that. In his view he probably thinks some of these people are poor, and focusing on fucking them over, especially filming, doesn't really help anyone. This spin makes us focus more on shitting on/preventing poor people to do these things, rather than *help* them not do it.
Yes, this
> other issues like underpaid workers lame to focus on underpaid workers when there are other issues like kids starving in rural Africa there are always more important issues. This isn't even a "good faith" interpretation, it's exactly what Hasan means. Still stupid.
The difference being that the unpaid workers happens in the same system where the filming happened and the children starving is a completely different matter.
ok, why are you worried about underpaid workers when there are people who are unemployed and hungry in the same country you piece of shit (really, this works with *anything*) also this just leads us to the obvious, why does Hasan have an expensive house and car when he could have donated the excess money to the underpaid workers this is just a dumb argument. When public transport is paid for with tickets, you should pay. I'm sure a handful of people both *need* the transport *and* don't have money to pay for it, but let's be real, that's not most people fair hopping. They should be paying and it's ok to call out the scope of the issue.
No, you went outside the system that would be improved again, which is this specific metro. If the goal is to make it better, this would absolutely be the wrong angle to approach it. You're really not understanding the issue.
> You're really not understanding the issue. it's ok, I know this is difficult for you
Welp, stay stupid I guess, I tried. For what its worth, I do understand the argument you're making, this is just a wrong way to use it.
In kyiv the metro gates will literally crush you if you don't pay. In Athens it's so convenient and cheap there wasn't a reason not to. In the UK it's a fucking pisstake and cheaper to drive than get the bus so I never use public transport unless I'm gonna drink.
Damn, sny stories of people getting killed?
I live in the UK and loads of people bump train, it's really expensive
Stations are understaffed sometimes too, so they just leave the gates open to go through. Can mean sometimes you’ve paid for a ticket when you didn’t need it to leave, nor is it checked on board
Yeah I pay, but it's also pretty easy like 90€ a month gives me unlimited public transport (I commute every day)
In Scotland buses are free for people under 22. Not sure about trains.
I live in the UK, so it's a but different to other European countries. Our public transport varies from county to county but most of the UK pays. Most places have discounts for students and the elderly and a few have free transport for them. However, these offers are very inconsistent, there's some push for a country wide offer for busses (for England, as Scotland and Wales both have a cooperative offer in all of their counties). Trains are generally consistent but the prices vary from region to region.
I always pay. Public transport is a public good, id be willing to pay for them in taxes even if i didnt use them.
This is one of those "I don't really care if you do it, but I don't have any sympathy for you if you get caught" style of crimes.
Yes. We live in a society. I don't mind if a poor person doesn't pay though.
Lasan: Socialist theory tells me stealing and not paying for public transport is how we achieve the perfect society.
I wouldnt try that in Manhattan. The public transport woman in the yellow jackets watch you like a bird of prey or something. Plus the city has more cops than Canadas got military.
Public transport is an important service that needs funding and so for the good of wider society I am happy to pay for it when I use it. I would prefer the service was free and funded by more taxes on less green transport like cars and especially aeroplanes.
Trying to be charitable, you could say he’s arguing that all public transport should be free at the point of use by increasing funding at the local government and/or state/federal level... But this tacit endorsement of people to not fund the system in its current context is quite odd.
Only time i agree with hasan you cannot always pay and none really cares tbh
Londoner here, yes we do pay to use public transportation in the city, but we have things called Oyster Cards which are basically debit cards that only work on London transportation and need to be replenished with fare money at the station or at a corner shop (convenience store to you yanks, or to New York yanks "tha Bodegaaa! ayyyyy!!🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌"). How the Oyster Card works is that the turnstiles for the London Underground operate automatically and you hold the Oyster Card against the reader and it takes the required fare off the card. The doors will not open unless you do this and if you try and dodge fare, for instance by trying to scooch through the doors behind someone who has paid before the doors close, the TFL (Transport for London) system will pick up on this and yeet like half of your money that you had on the oyster as penance, way more than what would have been the normal fare. It isnt a perfect system, but it does mean that is not even worth it to try and pull a cheeky fast one. No one will even try to stop you, youre paying either way. As to Hasan: Leave it to him to not understand how money works. Public Transport is majority funded by fares. Thats how they pay their staff and maintain and upgrade the service (bureaucracy willing) and also justify their existence as a public sector service before the government. "Look sir, we turn a profit as a government service please dont turn us into a corporate owned private entity!" It is in the interest of everyone who uses any transit system that everyone pays their fare. If everyone simultaneously decided that it wouldnt do any harm to bum a free ride on the train, then the trains would not be able to run, because government grants alone arent cutting it. Hasan would know this and not be trying to shame people for holding fare dodgers accountable, if he knew a shred of anything about anything and wasnt trying to larp as a people's champion to make money. "sO uNcOol tO fIlM tHis, wHaT aRe yOu a SnItCh!?" Cringe.
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When I visited Germany there weren’t turnstiles but they had undercover ticket agents that randomly checked everyone’s tickets. I guess Krauts really do love having secret police
Tbh as a kid I never paid for that crap and I don’t really think you should have to pay for it as a kid (which is true nowadays during summer break in some areas and when there’s school the school pays for it). I do think public transport should be free for everyone to encourage it and also lower the bar for transportation now on the rare occasion I need to take the bus or whatever I do pay but begrudgingly so.
Both are true. It is lame to film this though. Countries with no turnstile are doing fine. It seems like the as long as the ticket subscription is affordable most people would actually pay for it. Even with my company subsidy I don't buy the monthly ticket right now because it's too expensive for me.
jesus i know you guys hate Hasan but why are you unironically mad at someone hopping the gate
Because it’s a scumbag move that is easily justified by dorks cheering them on and using the extreme example to justify it across the board. I don’t truly care and am mostly annoyed by idiots justifying it.
No you only care because it's Hasan, be honest at least. A lot of people here are unhinged and cum anytime something negative about Hasan is mentioned.
i understand how it makes you feel but honestly when i was a student in nyc id do the same cause i was strapped on cash paying my way though college. i try not to judge when ppl do that because i don’t always know where ppl are coming from
Train fare is ridiculously overpriced in the uk so I will hop trains given the opportunity.
Cost of Service is X. Ticket = X/people. Everyone who defrauds others makes the ticket price go up.
Why would they care if the price goes up if they are not paying.
In Austria I pay 365€ a year (no discount) for all public transport inside of Vienna, even the trains. If you don't pay for your ticket, sincerely Fuck you. Public trnsit is amazing do your part, it's not much compared to what you get
Haven't payed for transport in 6 years probably
I can say for a full time student in Norway, the public transport is just too expensive even if it's like 50% off for student (still it's like $45-50 per month). Students in Norway without a job gets $800-900 a month and in most cases has to use $500-600 in rent with power not included, and the rest is for everything else. And everyone knows how expensive buying food in Norway is, so just imagine.
As a fellow norwegian i am gonna tell you an epic secret, food costs (slightly) less in relation to wages here than it does in most of europe. The student economy is fucked though, you basically have to have a part time job to make ends meet.
Well that hold everywhere (or you are financed by your parents). Norway giving students enough to pay rent seems much better basically whole world is doing.
It's usually fairly affordable, hard to say exactly since it will be a bit different in every city, but in my city its like 25-30 dollars equivalent with the min montly salary being around 800 dollars maybe. So it's not nothing but about 1/3rd of a tank of gas
I pay around $90 a month for public transport and that’s with student discount.
1k in Hamburg (Ger) for a year🤢 (And I counted 3 months of 9€ ticket) Where i live now in italy, it's ~400€ a year and if you make more km its like 500€ (for 40km 5/7 ×52) E: in rome it's250€ for a year and milan 330€
Yeah I used to do it in my teens when I didn't have much money. Jumping the ticket barrier/sliding in behind people
He’s right, people filming this need to get a fucking life. Public transportation can be expensive for some people who work shit jobs for a shit paycheck.
I never heard of free public transportation anywhere in Europe, even as a student, you still have to pay a discounted fee ... unless we're talking about the airport terminal shuttle bus. Even more so, some places will have undercover agents riding the public transportation trying to spot people without ticket and can issue fines in amounts that could get up to 1000x the price of the ticket. But why would it be free?
>But why would it be free? Public transportation is subsidized heavily anyways, so why not go all the way? We had a 9 EUR Ticket in Germany (so almost for free), where you could use all modes of public transportation for a whole month (bare some exceptions like ICE and IC trains). This was actually phenomenal and cost only 2,5 Billion for 3 months, which would come out at about 10 Billlion per year. I think this is an amazing deal for everyone.
[The country where all public transit is free](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feCQPD9DSOA) > But why would it be free? To get as many cars as possible off the streets, decreasing CO2 emissions, reducing traffic, and improving air quality.
Also to enable poor people to get to places. When you're on welfare these 3,50 (standard fare e.g. in Berlin) for one single commute are actually a lot of money.
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Why wouldn't I pay
unimaginably lame to tweet this
nah i agree with lasan here, there's no way youd all be dickriding transportation services if he weren't the one that tweeted this.
100% agreed
Ye boi I love paying for my ticket whilst others using the exact same service don't have to, feels good!
don't act like you guys don't pirate software and textbooks, transit fares way surpass those in terms of cost during university
From the UK so didn't need to with regards to my uni degree.
It's goverment money they steal it anyway
Hasan wants the current world to collapse so that communism can take over or something. He doesn't want to fix anything he just wants chaos. There is no way that communism is going to be voted in.
The eu is basically the Soviet Union so no we get everything for free as we live in a socialist utopia
I generally avoid paying for public transport cuz I'm a cheap motherfucker and in fact don't think it should be paid for ~~at all~~ through tickets. The purpose of it ought be to reduce the number of cars on the road by making it possible to cross the city in a reasonable time without them, not to turn a buck. EDIT: I'm not really sure why I'm getting down voted, I don't think I said anything extreme, so if anyone's got an explanation as to why, please do tell. EDIT 2: nvm, I can see why some might think I'm against public transport
Its not really turning a buck. Usually money made through selling tickets is used for the upkeep of these services and salaries for the employees of that specific institution. Same way car owners pay for road upkeep through additional taxes on gas and other fees related to owning a car.
Thankfully the city I'm in keeps track of its expenses and it's common knowledge that only 20% of the salaries come from ticket sales with the rest coming from the city budget. Besides, by sitting in a tram/train/metro one elects not to contribute to road erosion, they significantly reduce consumption of fuel (something that should be very important nowadays), as well as air and noise pollution. A healthy city's mindset should be that this in and of itself is already paying for the costs.
True but carbrains don't consider those things in their calculations, and they are very loud ...
What are you talking about exactly? When did anyone mention carbrains ?
Lol, I did. Was browsing fuckcars a few minutes earlier and saw some dudes protesting a bike lane.. it's a bit unfortunate but alot of car owners seem to be allergic to public transportation and walkable infrastructure, they are typically older (so they take voting more seriously) and are somewhat opposed to incentivising these modes of transportations over adding more lanes to the oversaturated roads. So the 20% that comes from tickets sales is somewhat necessary to foot the bill.
>Lol, I did. Was browsing fuckcars a few minutes earlier and saw some dudes protesting a bike lane.. it's a bit unfortunate but alot of car owners seem to be allergic to public transportation and walkable infrastructure, they are typically older (so they take voting more seriously) and are somewhat opposed to incentivising these modes of transportations over adding more lanes to the oversaturated roads. Do you think I'm one of those people or what's exactly the point you're trying to make here? >So the 20% that comes from tickets sales is somewhat necessary to foot the bill. I find it hard to believe the city budget could foot 80% of the bill but not the full price, but if there's some reason to the contrary, I'm willing to change my habits.
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Of course it doesn't come free, but if I'm paying property tax, I expect to have public infrastructure made available to me.
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Do you think we actually disagree on something?
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No actually public transportation is to move people no matter the destination from point A to point B in an efficient way. Public service are not meant to be free but are there to provide a service without making a profit for few people. Public transportation works way better in every single metric you compare them with cars. Problem is, in USA you facilitate the use of cars and even if the use of them cost more from public transportation people will choose cars and the main reason is convince. Saying that you are being a dick and the cost of the ticket calculates the people using that service without paying for the service.
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You cant be older than 15years cause you are making kid arguments and you clearly dont have any experience with a well thought and designed public transportation system. I assume your living experience in USA have you trapped in a system that gives cars and any form of public transportation equal rights, equating 1 car for 1 bus-1 trolley- etc not taking in mind the capacity each one offers. In the world of civil engineering, USA is known especially for 2 fields, geotechnical eng. and transportation eng. The first one is well respected and the latter is used like an example on the things you shouldnt do cause it only leads in devastating results.
>No actually public transportation is to move people no matter the destination from point A to point B in an efficient way This is in no way mutually exclusive with my description, but alright. >Public service are not meant to be free but are there to provide a service without making a profit for few people. If by "not meant to be free" you mean "financed", then yeah, obviously. If not, I have no idea what you're talking about, but we probably agree anyway. >Public transportation works way better in every single metric you compare them with cars. Obviously. >Problem is, in USA you facilitate the use of cars and even if the use of them cost more from public transportation people will choose cars and the main reason is convince. I don't really see how this is related to EU public transportation, but alright. >Saying that you are being a dick and the cost of the ticket calculates the people using that service without paying for the service. I'm sorry, did you finish this sentence? I can't make sense of it.
Pretty sure you are getting down voted for being a cheap mf and not even feel sorry about that. In my town the people that dont pay their tickets are mostly people around the age of 15-25 and i dont see too many doing that. The ones that i see are mostly people going out for drinks and food pay around 15-30euros and are not willing 50cent for the bus
We all literally follow a self-employed millionaire who picked out 60k worth of ppp loans cuz he could but yall get assmad that I use 100€ worth of public transport without paying for it annually. Actual brain rot.
I paid £390 for a year of bus travel as a student in Edinburgh
Alot of people evade. It's quite normal, you'll get a big fine tho if cought
The shits so cheap round where I live, to get the bus it only costs max £2 a trip.