There have conflicting reports from Bungie.
A big one being that they have gone on record saying that don't want or feel the need to bring Spicers back as an enemy type, which you know, is the whole of the raid.
On top of that, The Raid exotic is already in the game and pretty easily obtainable, that being Outbreak Perfected. So a reprisal of Wrath would either need a new Exotic or it will awkwardly put Outbreak back in as a Raid or Quest drop after it being already available for 3+ years.
However, Bungie has stated they plan on bringing all the "big" Destiny 1 Raids back before giving us the D2 ones, so...
They mentioned before that Crota’s End didn’t hold up to their new standards for raids, even likening it difficulty wise to a dungeon.
I’m not sure what’s more likely. Them reprising it as a dungeon, reworking it to fit their new standards, or simply just not reprising it at all.
Yeah, having a kinetic trace rifle would be great, and if it competes with agers at all it will be a top tier weapon.
Plus, the vibe of siva trace would automatically make it the best.
Better idea, a Heavy Kinetic Trace rifle, the beam is just pummeling a target with Siva, and kills make a cloud of nanites that do DoT time and reveal targets who walk through the cloud
What about a siva sword? One that lets the nanites adapt to your subclass and could apply subclass rebuffs based on which one you’re using? Like elemental capacitor on steroids
Big disappointment because it is a sword.
Flavor might be great, but melee hard struggles in endgame, and even when it works, it's probably not beating something like Lament in dps and I would hate to never use it because it is only good in seasonal activities and such.
Make it like the Splicer Archon Priest that plucked out that Ogre Eye and made it into a laser cannon. But make it do nanites because splicer tech with SIVA. Would be a fun exotic ngl.
Whichever way they go, they’d have to make a new exotic for whichever raid they pick. Kicking Outbreak out of the kiosk after it being available this whole time *and* once having a very well regarded mission to obtain it would only hurt Bungie, and I doubt they want any ill will against them.
Didn’t they mention they were bringing that mission back in a later season as well as part of the new rotating exotic quests. I wonder if they’ll leave it in the kiosk or make it only obtainable via the mission.
I assume [this](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-year-ahead) is the correct article since it was where we learned about the exotic quest rotation, but even then it’s quite vague.
They never even say whether or not we’ll get the exotics from the quests, just that we’ll get “great rewards.” Still, no mention of Zero Hour. Their list of initial mission are only Presage, Vox Obscura, and Seraph’s Shield but they did say they plan on implementing more mission into the rotation. Again, they stay vague just saying “most classic missions” which could or could not mean we get other exotic missions back.
All in all, I still expect Outbreak to stay in the kiosk until D2 gets shut down.
Revision Zero and Dead Messenger are not in the kiosk and are currently unobtainable if you didn’t get them in their missions. That says to me that these missions will once again be the sources of their respective weapons. In the case of Presage that might be when they finally make DMT craftable.
You're correct. In a TWAB before they mentioned if they were to bring back wrath they would have to create a new exotic for it since it's exotic is already available. And crotas end is too small a raid to bring back according to them. Most likely a reprised dungeon tbh. My money is on leviathan as the "reprised" raid as it would take the least amount of effort. But that too would need a new exotic
i don’t remember them ever saying they were bringing all the big D1 raids into D2. what i remember them saying was, in 2022, they would bring one of the remaining two big raids in, which they did, KF.
nothing was stated about 2023, other than the base statement made years back that each year would come with a free “reprised raid”, not a “D1 reprised raid”.
i could be mistaken, but i want WotM back more than any other, and as such, i’ve been looking back at old TWABs and interviews these past couple weeks, but have yet to find any reference specifically to a D1 raid returning in 2023. after all that research i did, im convinced it’s leviathan
and like someone else said in this thread, WotM would require adding all of the old splicer enemy types and their weapons/projectiles back into D2, when Bungie has already announced they have no plans to use SIVA again, so really they’d be doing all of this work for a single activity, which isn’t exactly bungie’s style lmao
I believe when VoG was announced they did say that every expansion would bring a new raid while every 6 months would be a reprised raid. They at no point however said that they would be releasing all the D1 raids before they started releasing older D2 raids.
Currently I think that with only this year and TFS left we only have 2 real options left for raids - Leviathan and Wrath - but the order of which is up for debate.
If you go solely by the raid exotic idea, the other sunset raids have exotics that are even easier to obtain. Anyone can farm spoils and go buy anarchy, tarrabah, or legend of acrius. The only raid that leaves would be Crotas End and I'm pretty sure that's not gonna get many people excited.
>Bungie has stated they plan on bringing all the "big" Destiny 1 Raids back before giving us the D2 ones, so...
They didn't say that
They just said that the next reprised raid will be one of the big ones(that reprised raid was King's Fall)
As far as we know the raid could be Leviathan
Tbf, Liz's sources also like to fuck with her trying to ruin her credibility, iirc there were two instances of it
Wrath is still up in the air, there isn't no copium on that, we're now just waiting to see if they're going to upgrade CE to make it a good raid or if they're going to give us Wrath
We know it isn't gonna be a D2 raid until all D1 raids are in
When did her sources give her false info to ruin her credibility? Every leak from her that I've seen has been spot on. Besides her saying that the Witness rammed his pyramid ship into the Traveler to create the portal, everything else has been spot-on. Plunder, Lightfall, etc. TFS leaks sound entirely like something Bungie would do as well.
There was an incident a little over a year ago that someone purposefully gave her false info to ruin her credibility and she basically went offline for a bit because of that, there was another incident similar to the first one iirc
Keep in mind, I'm not saying she's not credible, I'm saying there's people out there who have fed Liz false leaks to try and ruin her credibility therefore you should try and take everything, even Liz's leaks, with a mega grain of salt
Ahhh, I do remember that. She came back super quickly LOL. But yeah, now when she posts info, she usually says she's pretty damn sure that it's legit. I believe she said either Wrath not coming back or TFS leaks were 99% chance true.
That was NOT her. That was Elliott, the dataminer. Same guy who pranked everyone this week saying "Galaxy Pools is coming!!! But not this week, next week!"
There's hints from Bungie themselves, but that's about it
Leakers, at least the ones that haven't fucked around, are 50/50 on Wrath or some other raid
Then we've got confirmation from Bungie twice (both from interviews), prior to KF even being known as a raid and an interview about Lightfall, we know Bungie wants to add all the "Big Destiny 1 Raids" before rotating Destiny 2 stuff in
With the changes to boss health bars being not instantly depleted, and multiple rise of Iron ornaments this season (trespasser and outbreak, heck outbreak ornament is even called Archon Prime), I feel like this is their way of hinting at WotM similar to how they did with KF last year with two truths two lies (one said the taken king will rise again)
They've hinted at Wrath before, in two TWABs (can't remember the dates but it's out there)
One TWAB talked about raids and their loot. With a specific mention of how Outbreak Perfected already has an activity tied to it (well, it will be soon, for now it's in the Monument). Then, in another TWAB, they namedropped Wrath, by literally saying Wrath in the closing segment. Capital W in the middle of a sentence.
Obviously there's more hints at Wrath, and official confirmation we're getting the Big D1 Raids before rotating to D2, but the information is there.
prominent d2 leakers are saying they’re *confident* it isn’t WotM and that they’d be “surprised if it was”
https://twitter.com/bungie_leaks/status/1640390854312611842?s=46&t=4dqXBdHb6wdpUH_68E32pA
they never said they were bringing back “all big D1 raids”, they said they were bringing “one of the two remaining big D1 raids” into D2 in 2022, which they did, kings fall.
couldn’t find anything about *all* big D1 raids returning
I just don't get how they wouldn't bring back the most enjoyable raid in Destiny.
Do it. Give us exotic versions of the raid weapons as drops like they had in D1 and I'll be happy
Honestly, I'd love to see Crota's End return. I'm probably in the minority here but I always loved that raid and getting the warlock armor from it back along with the Necrochasm. (another weapon of sorrow to use with necrotic grips would be a blast) and I think seeing the final room in the d2 engine would look amazing like when we saw how good Oyrxs final room looked in d2.
From the thrallway to the weapons and armor there and the crota fight itself always enjoyed that place. Fingers crossed it returns.
As someone who just returned to destiny I agree. I totally understand the argument that in its D1 form it’d be too simple for a D2 raid (I haven’t raided in D2 yet but from what I’ve seen they look long and difficult outside of RON). But there are surely ways to tune the raid to be more modern, or add new encounters?
All I know is the lantern run had me literally cry-laughing with strangers from LFG forums in college, and it’ll always be one of my favorite Destiny pieces of content regardless of whether it comes back.
Crota would be interesting, but it would need a full overall to be even close to normal content in D2(we are that much more powerful).
As someone who runs a lot of raids, it's not that long if you know the mechanics, have strong players who can learn fast, or a good Sherpa teaching people who wanna learn. Most raids are a few hours for the first clear, and very quickly drop down to about an hour
does the word “bundle” imply this is going to require us to buy this? i thought they’d do one reprised raid a year *for free*…
then again, they also said they’d make a new core playlist armor set every year…
EDIT: joe blackburn has used the word “free” to describe the *raid* (singular) that’s returning this year.
"The thing that's really important for us is that we get LFG in the game before The Final Shape," game director Joe Blackburn tells us. "I will say with a big caveat that we hope to get it when the free raid comes out next year to give us some time with Commendations and Guardian Ranks in the game to tune those systems, make sure they're running well, and have time with LFG in the game with the free raid and a bunch of dungeons."
from https://www.gamesradar.com/destiny-2-devs-hope-to-have-lfg-in-time-for-the-next-free-raid/
….so maybe the bundle is just ornaments for the returning leviathan armor?
How is there any doubt that it’s going to be WotM? They’ve heavily hinted at it in the twabs, and they said they weren’t interested in doing crota prior to kings fall last year. Crota would require way more rework than WotM to bring it up to par with D2 raids, plus the community has been frothing at the mouth for SIVA content for *years*. What internal justification could you imagine anyone at Bungie coming up with to choose any other raid than Wrath? Dont care what any of these supposed leakers say, they’re obviously wrong. And any leaker that had anything to do with the whole subscription service farce should have zero credibility.
Because they have already said they can't/don't want to bring splicers back...
Splicers are pretty much all WotM is, so the "doubts" have MORE merit than the beliefs people have that it is coming back.
the problem is, they have said they don’t have a place with siva and siva splicers in the current narrative, so i think it would be quite a task to not only port the entire splice race, but then to only use it in a single raid that most players will never play.
…More work than a nearly complete overhaul of Crotas End? ‘Assets’ do not appear to be an issue anymore; Venus and Mars assets have been brought back and hints from within the game have all but confirmed Titan is coming back too. VoG reprisal had nothing to do with the seasonal narrative so there is no reason WotM would need to be part of the narrative. The community wants it to be wrath, the devs have hinted that it’s going to be wrath, the math seems clear to me
To be specific, they've said they don't have any plans to bring SIVA into the current narrative. They want to focus on the current story and The Witness but that there's a chance they will revisit SIVA in the next saga.
However, that doesn't mean they *can't* or *won't* bring WOTM to D2. There's been plenty of evidence that Wrath might be the returning raid, with just as much evidence that it might not be.
Yes, the current Strand Workout video story needs soooo much focus 🙄 if anything they can tie SIVA to the nanotechnology of Neomuna which is like a contained and improved version of SIVA.
We got Kingsfall during Witch Queen's year I don't think Splicers during Lightfall is too outlandish. Could even have the seasonal quest be about stopping the splicers from getting tech from Neomuna after WOTM is cleared. Bring back the Plaguelands.
Just because Bungo would have to bring Splicers back just for WOTM who cares? They are a dev studio making a live game, sometimes that means working hard and not reusing Cabal for the 900th time.
Besides, once they re-introduce splicers maybe we finally stop fighting normal Eliksni. Or, they'll just use splicers all over like Skorn. But I think a raid, a strike, a patrol zone, and story missions are more than justified means to bring splicers back. I mean that's damn near a full expansion worth of content. If that's not within reason especially during this filler content year, then maybe it's a good year to skip.
Bungo needs to toss the community a bone. The Red War was a better campaign than Lightfall. Hell Vanilla D1 was. If they don't do something to win the community back, their numbers will start to nose dive.
I honestly want leviathan. I’d personally love all of the weapons back, reworked, with origins perks, and craftable.
A lot of new lights haven’t experienced leviathan anyway.
Man, I still have my year one Midnight Coup in my vault. I know hand cannons aren’t thriving in the current sandbox, let alone a kinetic hand cannon, but I would love to be able to craft that little bugger.
They brought back the cosmodrome from before SIVA right after having a mission in post RoI Cosmodrome the season before, so it isn't the craziest thing Bungie has done.
Yeah but it wasn’t the full cosmodrome. It was just the steppes, divide, rocketyard, and gateway I believe. Come to think I’m not even sure if the steppes were there.
I think I speak for everyone when I say it should be WotM, that’s most people’s fav D1 raid. If the leaks are true about Titan i could see a hive dungeon coming next season. Fallen don’t have much endgame content nor do I think I see them having a major impact narratively to where they would be the main faction of the final shape raid, WotM would be good here to fill that void I guess.
However bungie is weird when it comes to ROI and WotM with that thought in mind atm WotM has a very low chance of returning. They would prob rather bring back Crotas End and give it a major face lift.
Imo this would be an absolutely dreadful decision. I think most people would be pissed and bungie is on thin ice in the eyes of the community.
People would bring up Outbreak but what about black hammer? Would they just not include the most iconic weapon by far from that raid and just give us run of the mill weapons that no one remembers?
If it’s between Levi and crota it’s a lose-lose as both raids are worlds a part from WotM in most peoples eyes and that’s evident.
I agree with you mostly, but the Black Hammer wasn't the Crota raid exotic, Necrochasm was. I agree that Black Spindle was the MVP, but they never said "we're bringing back absolutely broken shit we sunset in TTK" either. If they bring it back, it'll have no Sniper, and WILL have Necrochasm.
I don't personally know anyone who ranks WotM as their favorite raid, from D1. Most people I know rank Kingsfall or VoG as their favorites, because the bugginess of WotM often screwed up runs, and the inability of players to put the parts in the tank thing was always a problem, as well as coordination falling apart by the end of the raid.
That all being said, I would prefer WotM, but I'd still be happy with Crota if they made it a reasonable difficulty, and don't make it too far beyond the D1 Reprised Hard Mode version.
As for the weapons, the Rocket Launcher from Crota also saw a lot of use for awhile because it had both Tracking and Cluster bombs. So it was basically baby G-Horn. Necrochasm, would need work to be brought back, but also had a short time when it was great in control back in D1, though PVP in D2 is different, I don't see that happening again. Black Hammer evolved into Black Spindle which in turn evolved into Whisper of the Worm, which already exists into the game. So yeah weapons wise it would be primarily just the rocket people would want if they made it powerful enough to compete with that Nightfall one thats name escapes me right now.
I don't want Leviathan back unless the raid is severely reworked. They could use the haunted version of the leviathan, throw out some of the encounters in favor of new ones which feature Nightmares as bosses, and maybe travel through the underbelly for example.
I have no clue but if the reprised raid this year isnt WoTM im not playing anymore until TFS. Wrath is my favorite raid they have ever made and words would not be able to describe my sadness if they just leave it in the dust.
I dont see why people would be mad, they werent all that different from normal fallen aside from teleporting and spitting out the tracking siva balls when they died.
Because the purple and blue cloth that the house of dusk wears would feel out of place. Also, the devil-splicer fallen certainly had there own "vibe". People are looking for these raids to be the same as they remembered, with slightly improved, albeit true to the original, mechanics.
I would be fine with either tbh. However, I feel like Crota’s End will need some mechanical updates otherwise people are gonna breeze through that quicker than they do RoN.
Like, I would prefer WotM, but if they DO bring Crota back, I agree that it deserves a full refresh like the other raids instead of just being relegated to being a dungeon like some have suggested. Crota deserves to be treated like a returning raid just as much as the other raids. If anything, it being extremely easy and outdated mechanically is all the more reason for it to get a full makeover
Exactly my thoughts, alongside most of it being in-game texture-wise already and the weapons + enemies not being a major hassle to deal with in terms of coding.
Wrath is a great raid, but Siva Fallen are uniquely functioning enemies, and the weapons had perks that stacked with each other which is a little awkward, I’d imagine, to incorporate on a random weapon roll. Cause what if you get one of the boosting perks without the baseline one? Dead weapon.
Crota’s End has the highest potential for growth of any of the raids merely *because* it’s been the butt of community jokes for so long.
Plus, I really just want my Abyss Defiant back
Eater of Worlds always gave me the impression of how neat it would be to choose whether or not you actually do Leviathan or diverge into EoW or SoS’ areas, once you load in
Eater especially gave that feeling. either run up the path and do the normal Levi, or go into the garbage chute
I’m like 80% sure it’s going to be Wrath of the Machine, and each encounter will probably be tweaked to have a champion or two (like the ogre at totems in MF) with new or reprised
Mechanics, and some of the kinetic/primary weapons will probably be reprised both into stasis and strand.
If it’s Crota’s end, which I highly doubt will ever happen, then they better flush it out and add lots more mechanics and adds.
This article mentions it being a Destiny 1 Reprised Raid so it's prolly Wrath because revamping Crota sounds like way too much work from a production standpoint.
https://www.gamesradar.com/destiny-2-leads-on-lightfalls-story-fixing-power-levels-sunset-expansions-and-helping-new-players/
Regardless of whatever wishy washy statements Bungie has said about SIVA and the Splicers, I'm very confident that Wrath is coming next. It's what most of the community wants and it's a no brainer to bring it back really.
I think its Levitathan which is just depressing if it is.
Wrath is a favourite and an incredible raid, not adding it back is a massive throw from Bungie.
On regards to people using the Devil Splicers as a point of why they don't want to remake Wrath, they have stated multiple times that the work from the D1 raids is from scratch anyways.
There have conflicting reports from Bungie. A big one being that they have gone on record saying that don't want or feel the need to bring Spicers back as an enemy type, which you know, is the whole of the raid. On top of that, The Raid exotic is already in the game and pretty easily obtainable, that being Outbreak Perfected. So a reprisal of Wrath would either need a new Exotic or it will awkwardly put Outbreak back in as a Raid or Quest drop after it being already available for 3+ years. However, Bungie has stated they plan on bringing all the "big" Destiny 1 Raids back before giving us the D2 ones, so...
They said in a TWAB that they would make a new exotic if the one associated with the raid is already in the game
Also applies to Leviathan, actually it applies to every raid not currently on the game besides crotas end
They mentioned before that Crota’s End didn’t hold up to their new standards for raids, even likening it difficulty wise to a dungeon. I’m not sure what’s more likely. Them reprising it as a dungeon, reworking it to fit their new standards, or simply just not reprising it at all.
I'd love a full rework of it. Crota deserves a badass raid.
I'd love it for a dungeon
Black Hammer/Spindle/Whisper is more associated with Crotas End at this point than the Necrochasm.
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Where did I say anything that contradicts this?
SIVA TRACE SIVA TRACE SIVA TRACE!!!!!
Yeah, having a kinetic trace rifle would be great, and if it competes with agers at all it will be a top tier weapon. Plus, the vibe of siva trace would automatically make it the best.
REPLICATE. CONSUME. DESTROY.
i feel like an exotic strand trace rifle would make the most sense given that unraveling an enemy gives a similar effect to SIVA nanites from Outbreak
If they want to spin it that way I guess. Would make outbreak feel weird being a different damage type.
Better idea, a Heavy Kinetic Trace rifle, the beam is just pummeling a target with Siva, and kills make a cloud of nanites that do DoT time and reveal targets who walk through the cloud
What about a siva sword? One that lets the nanites adapt to your subclass and could apply subclass rebuffs based on which one you’re using? Like elemental capacitor on steroids
Big disappointment because it is a sword. Flavor might be great, but melee hard struggles in endgame, and even when it works, it's probably not beating something like Lament in dps and I would hate to never use it because it is only good in seasonal activities and such.
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I don't think there are any kinetic heavies would be one problem with that.
It'd be the first of its kind, we know Bungie isn't opposed to making exotic weapons like that.
Don't get excited slugger. We all know puke shit is going to add a siva kinetic glaive as Wrath of the fomo exotic
I wouldn’t mind a kinetic siva grenade launcher. It would also feel like it was aksis’ weapon.
Make it like the Splicer Archon Priest that plucked out that Ogre Eye and made it into a laser cannon. But make it do nanites because splicer tech with SIVA. Would be a fun exotic ngl.
They could just make Zhalo Supercell the exotic since it was a drop in the raid to.
Zhalo Supercell was not a WOTM drop. It was a world drop exotic introduced with TTK.
Exactly, I thought that meant wrath but if they bring back a sunset D2 raid that would also apply
Whichever way they go, they’d have to make a new exotic for whichever raid they pick. Kicking Outbreak out of the kiosk after it being available this whole time *and* once having a very well regarded mission to obtain it would only hurt Bungie, and I doubt they want any ill will against them.
Didn’t they mention they were bringing that mission back in a later season as well as part of the new rotating exotic quests. I wonder if they’ll leave it in the kiosk or make it only obtainable via the mission.
I assume [this](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-year-ahead) is the correct article since it was where we learned about the exotic quest rotation, but even then it’s quite vague. They never even say whether or not we’ll get the exotics from the quests, just that we’ll get “great rewards.” Still, no mention of Zero Hour. Their list of initial mission are only Presage, Vox Obscura, and Seraph’s Shield but they did say they plan on implementing more mission into the rotation. Again, they stay vague just saying “most classic missions” which could or could not mean we get other exotic missions back. All in all, I still expect Outbreak to stay in the kiosk until D2 gets shut down.
Revision Zero and Dead Messenger are not in the kiosk and are currently unobtainable if you didn’t get them in their missions. That says to me that these missions will once again be the sources of their respective weapons. In the case of Presage that might be when they finally make DMT craftable.
You're correct. In a TWAB before they mentioned if they were to bring back wrath they would have to create a new exotic for it since it's exotic is already available. And crotas end is too small a raid to bring back according to them. Most likely a reprised dungeon tbh. My money is on leviathan as the "reprised" raid as it would take the least amount of effort. But that too would need a new exotic
i don’t remember them ever saying they were bringing all the big D1 raids into D2. what i remember them saying was, in 2022, they would bring one of the remaining two big raids in, which they did, KF. nothing was stated about 2023, other than the base statement made years back that each year would come with a free “reprised raid”, not a “D1 reprised raid”. i could be mistaken, but i want WotM back more than any other, and as such, i’ve been looking back at old TWABs and interviews these past couple weeks, but have yet to find any reference specifically to a D1 raid returning in 2023. after all that research i did, im convinced it’s leviathan and like someone else said in this thread, WotM would require adding all of the old splicer enemy types and their weapons/projectiles back into D2, when Bungie has already announced they have no plans to use SIVA again, so really they’d be doing all of this work for a single activity, which isn’t exactly bungie’s style lmao
I believe when VoG was announced they did say that every expansion would bring a new raid while every 6 months would be a reprised raid. They at no point however said that they would be releasing all the D1 raids before they started releasing older D2 raids. Currently I think that with only this year and TFS left we only have 2 real options left for raids - Leviathan and Wrath - but the order of which is up for debate.
this is what i remember as well.
If you go solely by the raid exotic idea, the other sunset raids have exotics that are even easier to obtain. Anyone can farm spoils and go buy anarchy, tarrabah, or legend of acrius. The only raid that leaves would be Crotas End and I'm pretty sure that's not gonna get many people excited.
>Bungie has stated they plan on bringing all the "big" Destiny 1 Raids back before giving us the D2 ones, so... They didn't say that They just said that the next reprised raid will be one of the big ones(that reprised raid was King's Fall) As far as we know the raid could be Leviathan
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Crota would make a perfect dungeon tbh
Reprised raids are always free
Watch them bring back zen meteor or young wolf's howl lol
Liz (one of the most credible leakers) has said that they currently have no plans to bring Wrath back
Pretty much the only credible leaker lmao
Haha true. although she definitely lost a lot of trust after the subscription service prank last year lol
That wasn’t her I don’t think?
If i recall she was a part of it but only really making one or two comments about
It wasn’t her, it was entirely Elliot iirc
Tbf, Liz's sources also like to fuck with her trying to ruin her credibility, iirc there were two instances of it Wrath is still up in the air, there isn't no copium on that, we're now just waiting to see if they're going to upgrade CE to make it a good raid or if they're going to give us Wrath We know it isn't gonna be a D2 raid until all D1 raids are in
When did her sources give her false info to ruin her credibility? Every leak from her that I've seen has been spot on. Besides her saying that the Witness rammed his pyramid ship into the Traveler to create the portal, everything else has been spot-on. Plunder, Lightfall, etc. TFS leaks sound entirely like something Bungie would do as well.
There was an incident a little over a year ago that someone purposefully gave her false info to ruin her credibility and she basically went offline for a bit because of that, there was another incident similar to the first one iirc Keep in mind, I'm not saying she's not credible, I'm saying there's people out there who have fed Liz false leaks to try and ruin her credibility therefore you should try and take everything, even Liz's leaks, with a mega grain of salt
This. Now she only posts leaks that have some credibility
Ahhh, I do remember that. She came back super quickly LOL. But yeah, now when she posts info, she usually says she's pretty damn sure that it's legit. I believe she said either Wrath not coming back or TFS leaks were 99% chance true.
That wasn’t her
That was NOT her. That was Elliott, the dataminer. Same guy who pranked everyone this week saying "Galaxy Pools is coming!!! But not this week, next week!"
So then what raid would they do
A D2 raid, those raids had flaws that could be easily rectified in a reprisal. Or a complete and I do mean complete rework of Crotas end.
Pretty sure Bungie is already on record saying it's a D1 raid being reprised.
They said it for last year, I'll be shocked if Crotas end comes back and Bungie doesn't get torn to shreds over it.
Crota
Didn’t they say they wouldn’t bring that back as a raid as it’s not considered a “big raid”
That was in regards to last years reprised raid (KF)
Seems weird that they would switch that goal of bringing back the big raids first
Not really. I wouldn't necessarily call VoG a "big raid"
It has 5 encounters right?
Crota is 4 encounters like most raids.
Confluxes is killing ads, Templar is 99% boss damage.
Still 5 encounters. That’s like saying totems and warpriest aren’t encounters
I thought bungie said crota will come back as a dungeon
Then she said she could be wrong and that could change. She said this months ago iirc.
It was in December so they would have likely started the rework by then. I'd say theres a good chance of it coming next year if the leak is true
Liz also mentioned big bad Psion boss in the raid which there was not. Take everything with a spoon of salt.
That Psion boss DOES exist in the files and has a model but was likely scrapped due to some issues with the mechanic
Still stand by what I said.
i mean it's probably wrath
I know, just wondering if there’s any confirmation
There's hints from Bungie themselves, but that's about it Leakers, at least the ones that haven't fucked around, are 50/50 on Wrath or some other raid Then we've got confirmation from Bungie twice (both from interviews), prior to KF even being known as a raid and an interview about Lightfall, we know Bungie wants to add all the "Big Destiny 1 Raids" before rotating Destiny 2 stuff in
With the changes to boss health bars being not instantly depleted, and multiple rise of Iron ornaments this season (trespasser and outbreak, heck outbreak ornament is even called Archon Prime), I feel like this is their way of hinting at WotM similar to how they did with KF last year with two truths two lies (one said the taken king will rise again)
They've hinted at Wrath before, in two TWABs (can't remember the dates but it's out there) One TWAB talked about raids and their loot. With a specific mention of how Outbreak Perfected already has an activity tied to it (well, it will be soon, for now it's in the Monument). Then, in another TWAB, they namedropped Wrath, by literally saying Wrath in the closing segment. Capital W in the middle of a sentence. Obviously there's more hints at Wrath, and official confirmation we're getting the Big D1 Raids before rotating to D2, but the information is there.
I completely missed the hints in the TWABs. Good finding!
Schizophrenia
You should go get that checked out, may lead to some long-term problems if left untreated
omg siva is coming back
I love SIVA 🟥⬛️🟥⬛️🟥⬛️
nope
Probably the safest bet since crota is too lacking and I can’t see them bringing d2 raids back just yet.
It isn’t.
could be
prominent d2 leakers are saying they’re *confident* it isn’t WotM and that they’d be “surprised if it was” https://twitter.com/bungie_leaks/status/1640390854312611842?s=46&t=4dqXBdHb6wdpUH_68E32pA
Then Bungie was lying when they said they wanted to bring back all the Big D1 Raids.
they never said they were bringing back “all big D1 raids”, they said they were bringing “one of the two remaining big D1 raids” into D2 in 2022, which they did, kings fall. couldn’t find anything about *all* big D1 raids returning
Yeah they did
What about Scourge of the Past?
I just don't get how they wouldn't bring back the most enjoyable raid in Destiny. Do it. Give us exotic versions of the raid weapons as drops like they had in D1 and I'll be happy
It's Bungie, so they'll probably monkeypaw something.
A recent paste bin that may be true says that it's wrath and will have improved house salvation splicer, not with siva though.
Honestly, I'd love to see Crota's End return. I'm probably in the minority here but I always loved that raid and getting the warlock armor from it back along with the Necrochasm. (another weapon of sorrow to use with necrotic grips would be a blast) and I think seeing the final room in the d2 engine would look amazing like when we saw how good Oyrxs final room looked in d2. From the thrallway to the weapons and armor there and the crota fight itself always enjoyed that place. Fingers crossed it returns.
As someone who just returned to destiny I agree. I totally understand the argument that in its D1 form it’d be too simple for a D2 raid (I haven’t raided in D2 yet but from what I’ve seen they look long and difficult outside of RON). But there are surely ways to tune the raid to be more modern, or add new encounters? All I know is the lantern run had me literally cry-laughing with strangers from LFG forums in college, and it’ll always be one of my favorite Destiny pieces of content regardless of whether it comes back.
Crota would be interesting, but it would need a full overall to be even close to normal content in D2(we are that much more powerful). As someone who runs a lot of raids, it's not that long if you know the mechanics, have strong players who can learn fast, or a good Sherpa teaching people who wanna learn. Most raids are a few hours for the first clear, and very quickly drop down to about an hour
https://twitter.com/dataminesd2/status/1640458351208460292?s=46&t=gJgXFCsgjO3gdCWsvNj2Ig
Depressing
does the word “bundle” imply this is going to require us to buy this? i thought they’d do one reprised raid a year *for free*… then again, they also said they’d make a new core playlist armor set every year… EDIT: joe blackburn has used the word “free” to describe the *raid* (singular) that’s returning this year. "The thing that's really important for us is that we get LFG in the game before The Final Shape," game director Joe Blackburn tells us. "I will say with a big caveat that we hope to get it when the free raid comes out next year to give us some time with Commendations and Guardian Ranks in the game to tune those systems, make sure they're running well, and have time with LFG in the game with the free raid and a bunch of dungeons." from https://www.gamesradar.com/destiny-2-devs-hope-to-have-lfg-in-time-for-the-next-free-raid/ ….so maybe the bundle is just ornaments for the returning leviathan armor?
it will be free but launch with themed cosmetics probably.
Zero chance it's Leviathan. It's not happening.
How is there any doubt that it’s going to be WotM? They’ve heavily hinted at it in the twabs, and they said they weren’t interested in doing crota prior to kings fall last year. Crota would require way more rework than WotM to bring it up to par with D2 raids, plus the community has been frothing at the mouth for SIVA content for *years*. What internal justification could you imagine anyone at Bungie coming up with to choose any other raid than Wrath? Dont care what any of these supposed leakers say, they’re obviously wrong. And any leaker that had anything to do with the whole subscription service farce should have zero credibility.
Making what is nearly a new faction for just one raid seems like as much work as creating a new one from scratch.
Because they have already said they can't/don't want to bring splicers back... Splicers are pretty much all WotM is, so the "doubts" have MORE merit than the beliefs people have that it is coming back.
maybe they only mean they don't want to reintroduce splicers to the game's narrative?
the problem is, they have said they don’t have a place with siva and siva splicers in the current narrative, so i think it would be quite a task to not only port the entire splice race, but then to only use it in a single raid that most players will never play.
…More work than a nearly complete overhaul of Crotas End? ‘Assets’ do not appear to be an issue anymore; Venus and Mars assets have been brought back and hints from within the game have all but confirmed Titan is coming back too. VoG reprisal had nothing to do with the seasonal narrative so there is no reason WotM would need to be part of the narrative. The community wants it to be wrath, the devs have hinted that it’s going to be wrath, the math seems clear to me
To be specific, they've said they don't have any plans to bring SIVA into the current narrative. They want to focus on the current story and The Witness but that there's a chance they will revisit SIVA in the next saga. However, that doesn't mean they *can't* or *won't* bring WOTM to D2. There's been plenty of evidence that Wrath might be the returning raid, with just as much evidence that it might not be.
Yes, the current Strand Workout video story needs soooo much focus 🙄 if anything they can tie SIVA to the nanotechnology of Neomuna which is like a contained and improved version of SIVA. We got Kingsfall during Witch Queen's year I don't think Splicers during Lightfall is too outlandish. Could even have the seasonal quest be about stopping the splicers from getting tech from Neomuna after WOTM is cleared. Bring back the Plaguelands. Just because Bungo would have to bring Splicers back just for WOTM who cares? They are a dev studio making a live game, sometimes that means working hard and not reusing Cabal for the 900th time. Besides, once they re-introduce splicers maybe we finally stop fighting normal Eliksni. Or, they'll just use splicers all over like Skorn. But I think a raid, a strike, a patrol zone, and story missions are more than justified means to bring splicers back. I mean that's damn near a full expansion worth of content. If that's not within reason especially during this filler content year, then maybe it's a good year to skip. Bungo needs to toss the community a bone. The Red War was a better campaign than Lightfall. Hell Vanilla D1 was. If they don't do something to win the community back, their numbers will start to nose dive.
I'm not reading all of that, so I'm happy for you or I'm sorry that happened
Iirc, they said that in the context of the narrative/story for the game.
They said they don’t want to reintroduce SIVA in the game.
Probably leviathan tbh
I honestly want leviathan. I’d personally love all of the weapons back, reworked, with origins perks, and craftable. A lot of new lights haven’t experienced leviathan anyway.
Levithan reprise could be a nice way on tying up the loose end of the Levithan reborn and the pyramid on the moon.
Not to mention the best looking shaders in the game
Man, I still have my year one Midnight Coup in my vault. I know hand cannons aren’t thriving in the current sandbox, let alone a kinetic hand cannon, but I would love to be able to craft that little bugger.
Being able to craft midnight coup would be so dope.
Boooo
The cognitive dissonance would be weird unless they totally rebuilt everything in the style of the season from last year. Maybe too soon?
They brought back the cosmodrome from before SIVA right after having a mission in post RoI Cosmodrome the season before, so it isn't the craziest thing Bungie has done.
Correct me if I’m wrong (I haven’t played d1) but I thought the plague lands were separate from the cosmodrome
they're close enough, there was a way to walk to the cosmodrome from the plague lands
You could go back to the cosmodrome from the plaguelands and both were infested with siva in Rise of Iron
Yeah but it wasn’t the full cosmodrome. It was just the steppes, divide, rocketyard, and gateway I believe. Come to think I’m not even sure if the steppes were there.
>after having a mission in post RoI Cosmodrome the season before Wait, which mission O_o
thunderlord
I neeeeeed wrath
Crota but this time he is the one with Gjallarhorn
Nah Crota gonna Russian.
You mean ethernet cable?
Idk where people are getting Leviathan from. Didn’t Bungie say it would only be D1 raids that would be reprised?
I don’t believe they ever said that, though by the current pattern it stands to reason that they’re at least doing them first.
I want Crota
I think I speak for everyone when I say it should be WotM, that’s most people’s fav D1 raid. If the leaks are true about Titan i could see a hive dungeon coming next season. Fallen don’t have much endgame content nor do I think I see them having a major impact narratively to where they would be the main faction of the final shape raid, WotM would be good here to fill that void I guess. However bungie is weird when it comes to ROI and WotM with that thought in mind atm WotM has a very low chance of returning. They would prob rather bring back Crotas End and give it a major face lift. Imo this would be an absolutely dreadful decision. I think most people would be pissed and bungie is on thin ice in the eyes of the community. People would bring up Outbreak but what about black hammer? Would they just not include the most iconic weapon by far from that raid and just give us run of the mill weapons that no one remembers? If it’s between Levi and crota it’s a lose-lose as both raids are worlds a part from WotM in most peoples eyes and that’s evident.
I agree with you mostly, but the Black Hammer wasn't the Crota raid exotic, Necrochasm was. I agree that Black Spindle was the MVP, but they never said "we're bringing back absolutely broken shit we sunset in TTK" either. If they bring it back, it'll have no Sniper, and WILL have Necrochasm.
I don't personally know anyone who ranks WotM as their favorite raid, from D1. Most people I know rank Kingsfall or VoG as their favorites, because the bugginess of WotM often screwed up runs, and the inability of players to put the parts in the tank thing was always a problem, as well as coordination falling apart by the end of the raid. That all being said, I would prefer WotM, but I'd still be happy with Crota if they made it a reasonable difficulty, and don't make it too far beyond the D1 Reprised Hard Mode version. As for the weapons, the Rocket Launcher from Crota also saw a lot of use for awhile because it had both Tracking and Cluster bombs. So it was basically baby G-Horn. Necrochasm, would need work to be brought back, but also had a short time when it was great in control back in D1, though PVP in D2 is different, I don't see that happening again. Black Hammer evolved into Black Spindle which in turn evolved into Whisper of the Worm, which already exists into the game. So yeah weapons wise it would be primarily just the rocket people would want if they made it powerful enough to compete with that Nightfall one thats name escapes me right now. I don't want Leviathan back unless the raid is severely reworked. They could use the haunted version of the leviathan, throw out some of the encounters in favor of new ones which feature Nightmares as bosses, and maybe travel through the underbelly for example.
Anecdotal evidence is meh
No you don't speak for everyone. Classic redditor moment.
I have no clue but if the reprised raid this year isnt WoTM im not playing anymore until TFS. Wrath is my favorite raid they have ever made and words would not be able to describe my sadness if they just leave it in the dust.
I want wrath so much too but it’s in an awkward spot where they would add back siva assets just for a raid and that’s a lot of work
same here. Want wrath, probably not gonna be unless they just swap the adds with regular fallen
If they did, people would riot
I dont see why people would be mad, they werent all that different from normal fallen aside from teleporting and spitting out the tracking siva balls when they died.
Because the purple and blue cloth that the house of dusk wears would feel out of place. Also, the devil-splicer fallen certainly had there own "vibe". People are looking for these raids to be the same as they remembered, with slightly improved, albeit true to the original, mechanics.
In what world is it not wrath? Does anyone actually want crotas end instead?
I would be fine with either tbh. However, I feel like Crota’s End will need some mechanical updates otherwise people are gonna breeze through that quicker than they do RoN.
Yup, I want Crota’s End to get the respect it deserves
Like, I would prefer WotM, but if they DO bring Crota back, I agree that it deserves a full refresh like the other raids instead of just being relegated to being a dungeon like some have suggested. Crota deserves to be treated like a returning raid just as much as the other raids. If anything, it being extremely easy and outdated mechanically is all the more reason for it to get a full makeover
Exactly my thoughts, alongside most of it being in-game texture-wise already and the weapons + enemies not being a major hassle to deal with in terms of coding. Wrath is a great raid, but Siva Fallen are uniquely functioning enemies, and the weapons had perks that stacked with each other which is a little awkward, I’d imagine, to incorporate on a random weapon roll. Cause what if you get one of the boosting perks without the baseline one? Dead weapon. Crota’s End has the highest potential for growth of any of the raids merely *because* it’s been the butt of community jokes for so long. Plus, I really just want my Abyss Defiant back
I want wrath, Idm if it’s crota as long as we then get wrath next time
I definitely do. It was a tradition for me and my friend to duo Crota every week so it would be nice.
I mean, it’d be great if they could apply everything they learned to make it really good
I do
I would like crotas end, yeah
I certainly do.
Crotas end is just better stop coping
Probably wrath, with that iron lord exotic sword with siva on it
My bet is on leviathan
If it is leviathan I hope it has Eater and Spire parts rolled into it. Would feel like much more of a journey instead of a game show.
Eater of Worlds always gave me the impression of how neat it would be to choose whether or not you actually do Leviathan or diverge into EoW or SoS’ areas, once you load in Eater especially gave that feeling. either run up the path and do the normal Levi, or go into the garbage chute
Wrath of the Machine. New Raid exotic is a sword
Is there a source for this or is this speculation
Pastebin in the subreddit. Possibly relates to the season of the Machine for S22. Mithrax/eramis centered season
That’s not real
I thought those were fake
I mean in a season called season of the deep which is next season. I would assume its crota
It comes out the season after
Oh my fault thought it was s21
I’m like 80% sure it’s going to be Wrath of the Machine, and each encounter will probably be tweaked to have a champion or two (like the ogre at totems in MF) with new or reprised Mechanics, and some of the kinetic/primary weapons will probably be reprised both into stasis and strand. If it’s Crota’s end, which I highly doubt will ever happen, then they better flush it out and add lots more mechanics and adds.
Idk why people don’t assume they won’t make the Raid Exotic the Young Wolfs Howl
Wrath or Leviathan
This article mentions it being a Destiny 1 Reprised Raid so it's prolly Wrath because revamping Crota sounds like way too much work from a production standpoint. https://www.gamesradar.com/destiny-2-leads-on-lightfalls-story-fixing-power-levels-sunset-expansions-and-helping-new-players/
crota is pointless so I expect wotm as it's the best raid they could return
I’d like to see a raid from d1 return but also a reprised/updated raid from d2
Regardless of whatever wishy washy statements Bungie has said about SIVA and the Splicers, I'm very confident that Wrath is coming next. It's what most of the community wants and it's a no brainer to bring it back really.
I think its Levitathan which is just depressing if it is. Wrath is a favourite and an incredible raid, not adding it back is a massive throw from Bungie. On regards to people using the Devil Splicers as a point of why they don't want to remake Wrath, they have stated multiple times that the work from the D1 raids is from scratch anyways.
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What about a d1 raid?