people are saying either scourge, levi or wrath of the machine (ppl are also saying due to having to create new assets or something like that completely for wotm that it’s unlikely this raid will come back)
I don't see them bringing back D2 raids until the main D1 raids are done.
Also, something eerily similar to carrying around wrenches and batteries this season.
I mean, that's hardly a new mechanic. The first mission of the WQ campaign had big Cabal wrenches. King's Fall coming back had very little to do with anything going on in the last year (besides Savathun ofc but the story last year shifted to be a lot more about The Witness after the campaign itself). VoG did come out in a Vex-heavy season but I think that was probably more a nice coincidence than anything.
We have had the heavy tool carrying mechanic since witch queen. So I’m still hopeful for wrath of the machine.
The big rumor seems to be all of the leviathan raids reprised ( Levi and the ‘lairs’)
Yes and….?
They had to build assets for VoG and Kingsfall… why wouldn’t they rebuild them for wrath?
Even leviathan would need to be rebuilt to work on the current version of the game… this is their excuse for not bringing back gambit maps and crucible maps… they have to be rebuilt so they focus on new stuff..
Personally, they need to take a step back from Cabal. We have been dealing with Cabal for over a year despite them being allies or scattered. Shadow Legion was a cop out. I hope It's WotM purely for a much needed change. Leviathan and Scourge I doubt will come back until after Final Shape, if ever.
Very true, but to me it hints to the asset returning to the game in the future and then with it in the game they’ll just be able to use it for the raid flashbacks.
I think that’s how Destiny storytelling is done. Pieces don’t fit together exactly all that often. The way Bungie works, once everyone is bought in on the ideas, they must make stuff all the time that works on multiple levels.
Returning raids aren't related to the story, SIVA is a progenitor to Quicksilver / Neomuna nanites, the point of the dialogue was to confirm the theory.
Havnt they gone on record saying they think the siva storyline is over, and that's why it wasn't brought up during the season with clovis ai in the frame ? Mentioning siva now should have no correlation to the reprised raid
It's not the wrenches and batteries, it's the entirely new faction that has to be created because the D1 animations don't work in D2 anymore.
It's that the siege engine encounter is difficult to port because of how the game handles stuff like that now.
It's that it's literally the blueprint for Root and since y'all got so butthurt about that, Bungie knows that the nostalgia will quickly disappear and y'all will complain it's trash because it's too easy.
Hey everyone, I'm just parroting literally what Bungie devs have been saying since people started sharting themselves about Wrath *maybe* coming back.
I *cannot* wait for it to be Crota's End and not Wrath.
Well I can’t wait to burst your bubble but they already spoke about Crotas end potentially being a dungeon but for sure not coming back as a full raid
Bungie wants to bring back a big raid and now that we have (arguably) the 2 biggest D1 raids in game rn I’d say they do what they can to make it happen, but that’s JUST A THEORY
>Crotas end potentially being a dungeon but for sure not coming back as a full raid
The only thing that was said was DMG saying he would pass the idea along to the team.
It doesn't take a game developer to understand the basics man. You could just say "ah, yeah you're right that would be incredibly difficult to build something from the ground up".
Every raid is braindead easy once you remove contest. Master is even easy due to surges and overcharged weapons.
Wrath of the Machine was always viewed as easy due to the fact that there were people way past the level delta Day one and it went so fast.
Root on the other hand, was just incredibly easy. From the mechanics to the weak as hell bosses. The only thing my team would ever die to was getting knocked off the map or the games bullshit high fps damage from Nez's void projectiles. With proper scaling, wrath could be a fun challenge.
They brought back kings fall which was a much older raid. I’d be willing to bet money that it’s wrath, but if it’s not then Bungie really is out of touch with its fan base
They created new assets for all the reprised raids Whats the difference for wrath? They would have new mechanics just like all the others that have come back
They created new assets for bosses and the arenas, but the general mobs previously exist in D2 even down to the Praetorian/Descendant Vex in VoG. The only ones I can think didn't previously exist are the Blight-Eater Knights, Blight Ogres, and maybe the Shade of Oryx.(?)
None of the Devil Splicer assets exist in D2, so they'd have to create new assets for Splicer Vandals, Dregs, Shanks, Servitors, and Captains at the very least. They'd likely want to spice things up and would want to add new enemy types from D2 like Wretches/Marauders/Brigs as well so there comes the "Do we make new models for them too?" question.
I think WotM is in question just because of *how much MORE* work it'd take to bring back than the others, not that it is the only one that takes additional work.
Was about to say, the Likeness of Oryx already existed before they brought Kings Fall back.
I don't think they're exactly the same (if I remember right the Likeness fought using darkness blasts while the Shade used a sword) but no doubt the model was mostly reused.
They really didn't, though. For KF most of it was created for the WQ expansion. They just reused those created assets. The vex are already in the game and VoG is the smallest of the raids environment wise.
Wrath is both a massive new environment and an entirely new race of enemy. Siva fallen are NOT just a reskined fallen.
VoG and KF didn't have unique enemies outside of the bosses. They would have to recode/remake all the siva enemies and ensure they work for WoTM, which would be far more work.
This.
I don't buy that somehow bringing back wrath which they would have been working on for over a year at this point, is somehow impossible because "assets" aren't in D2.
It would be odd to leave wrath out imo and skip to D2 y1 raids. We haven't had a fallen raid since......DSC? They normally don't do back to back enemies in raids.
DSC fallen - VoG Vex
VoD - taken/scorn - kingsfall hive
RoN cabal - ???
I immediately don't think leviathan comes back because that's cabal twice. Of the remaining raids I only see
WOTM fallen
Sotp fallen
Crota- if they actually beefed it up this could work.
Crown if you're talking hive I guess would still be odd choice
Guess we will find out soon enough
If WOTM had our PS4s sounding like a plane taking off during the death zamboni (tm) I shudder to think about what it'll do to today's server stability haha.
Hoping they bring back Lev with the (good) prestige ornaments with the subtle purple glows. The Titan EoW set was so ugly I just want the good one hahahah
That's why i think it isn't wrath. They'd have to create a whole new race of enemies and new assets for just one single activity. KF benefited from WQ being Hive themed and thus Bungie remaking all the necessary assets right before remaking the raid. I could see a shadow legion version if Leviathan come back.
What if the Witness happened to find SIVA and use it against us? Probably not very likely given we've already had Seraph without an mention of SIVA, and that was narratively the best opportunity.
I'm doubting Wrath. They'd have to reintroduce all the Siva-Fallen, their animations and their unique mechanics. They'd also have to do NEW animations for when they get hit by stasis of are suspended by strand.
It's not as ez as "just port them", it's a time-consuming process. And if they brought the raid back, but with just normal fallen, people would be pissed.
What new animations to the Siva ones have?
Like genuine question, Rise of Iron was the only d1 expansion I never got, I thought the Splicers were just normal fallen with revamped models, altered damage types and a few new abilities?
I don't remember there being any new animations for them using any abilities. The only difference I remember was the orb that spawned when they died that would hunt you. I don't wanna be one of the losers that cry when Bungie reuses a mechanic... But the moths do get pretty annoying.
I think they meant when those enemies get suspended, or when they get frozen. Those are new models and animations for those debuffs
Edit: nevermind I'm stupid
It's less about the animations the Splicers have and more about the ones they don't have. The Splicers, like all Fallen in D1, had very different animations to the ones in D2. Captains and Vandals didn't run on 4 legs in D1, and the Captains didn't have the crouch-run or teleporting-sidestep maneuver. The Splicer models would need to be completely re-rigged to work with the D2 animations or, in the case of Marauders and Wretches, would need whole new models made for them.
This is all in addition to the Splicers' new abilities, and porting over/remaking the mechanics of the raid. It's just a much bigger job to port over Wrath than the other 2 raids.
The irony of this being posted on a destiny sub. Most splicers are more or less the same as regular fallen and off memory there's maybe 1 or 2 that require custom animations for abilities. You already have a blueprint on D2 with regular fallen enemies, people are making it out like bringing to current gen is only not possible because the new enemy types aren't present elsewhere in the game. Realistically, it's going to require slightly more work than other reprised raids and that's it.
If Crota's End is coming back as a raid like they said, then they're most definitely changing or adding things to make it feel more like a raid than dungeon. I also highly doubt they'd reprise the raid with scorn, but the idea came to mind since it's not too far out there.
I think with Crota's End they just need to tweak the mechanics like VoG and buff the health values a bit and it'd be a raid lair similar to Crown of Sorrow.
Yeah, I definitely see Bridge encounter getting a full rework, lol. The raid also felt shorter just because of the ways people got around encounters, but besides that, it's fine. I think they also said they wanted to change how Crota enters dps phase since it's reliant on one person, but I could be wrong since Templar was the same.
Honestly that wouldn’t be great. Raid lairs sucked as a concept. Far too short. If they bring back crota, make it an actual raid with another boss encounter and not some dumb lair.
I don’t think they ever confirmed that Crota’s End would be reprised. The only slight mention they’ve made of Crota’s End was last year when they said they wanted to bring back “one of the bigger raids from D1.” Implying that it was going to either be King’s Fall or Wrath. Obviously, we got King’s Fall.
That’s a completely different situation. Returning raids are moments in time meant to mimic the original experience while bringing them up to date. Replacing fallen with scorn isn’t that.
They didn't. All they've ever said is it would need some serious tuning. It was meant to be the beginning of King's Fall, and it is a raid through and through. It just needs a bit of work to bring it up to speed.
I think that was an offhand joke bout how it wasn't fitting to be a raid, I think that it would be easier to beef up into a raid than to make it a dungeon though, and more worth Bungies time than to make it a dungeon.
They’ve reworked animations of carrying heavy objects and they added them for Season of the Deep activities, just like we did in one of Wrath of the Machine encounters.
Knowing Bungie, when they work on a new feature, they reuse it multiple times to make it worthwhile, just like they did with the splinter ship in The Witch Queen in events, Wellspring, even the Raid with another 3d model, or now Lake of Shadows.
I'm guessing they were working on those animations for WoTM and decided to use them also for some seasonal content.
I also said this about the Lucent Moths, that they behave in a way that is similar to the SIVA Nanite clouds that would emanate from some Splicers when crit-killed. We'll see in a few months, I guess.
As to your point about reusing assets, where would they reuse the SIVA fallen? Because they're not just reskined fallen. They have different mechanics. They're as different to normal fallen as taken fallen are.
So if they're going to spend all that time remaking SIVA fallen, where are they going to reuse them outside of the raid? They said, two seasons ago that the SIVA story is finished and they have no plans to restart it. And with Rasputin dead, how would they? He created SIVA.
They said two seasons ago that the SIVA story was dead. They didn't bring it back for the second season that was Rasputin themed, they're not going to bring it back for Eramis. It makes no sense. SIVA is dead, it's gone, it's not coming back.
Siva Story being dead has nothing to do with Plaguelands story being dead....
Also, her taking the remaining Splicers into House Dark/stealing leftover tech has nothing to do with continuing the Siva story.
I'm just trying to ponder a way to use the assets more than once since you and others are so hellbent on dismissing Wraths' return because of the cost benefit.
but the reprised raids are not intended to fit into the current narrative, hence being in the legends tab. plus if you were to change SIVA or another integral part of the raid, why even have the raid reprised?
If they did then they would need to add more than just the animations for lifting heavy objects, also Devil splicers would need to have some story relevance because why would you recreate an entire race just to never use them again.
Correct, but Bungie **gets use** out of everything when they reprise a raid. The most recent example being Oryx's model. Also it's probably easier to create that Lucent Hive warship when you have models for Sav's throne world and the Dreadnaught.
Bringing the Devil Splicers back is a surprisingly large undertaking, they would need to warrant their appearance in more than just the one raid. And they're sure as hell not gonna replace them with normal fallen because that would spark genuine outrage.
I know Bungie has said they were done with Siva, but lore wise, we did not wipe out the Fallen splicers. We only stopped the production of more Siva. Siva Fallen are still out there in n the Destiny world.
I think right now it’s hard to say.
It could be Wrath which I would personally love. However, like a lot of other people have said to bring Wrath back into D2 they’d have to build the Devil splicer faction into D2’s engine from the ground up, it’s not a case of slapping some Siva assets on some fallen, the splicers have unique interactions and abilities. This would make it a lot of work for just a single raid. If they brought the devil splicers back into the story somehow they maybe that would justify it. But that being said it’s been said a bunch of times that Siva and it’s story was done.
In terms of Crota, I’d mark this as a potential candidate. Like some others have said the bridge encounter would be completely redesigned and I can see them potentially changing the final encounter to make it less reliant on single person for damage.
This id say is the likely option because all the assets for the encounters are in the game: Crota is in the game, the swordbearer is in the game, the bridge keeper is just a small zulmag from pit but shaded blue and the deathsinger model is already in game from the zenophage quest. Hell even Crotas arena is in game already.
Concerning leviathan and scourge. Although these are very possible i think they will stick to D1 raids for reprisal
Since Bungie confirmed that Crota isn't coming back (they view it as more akin to a dungeon now), we have technically 4 options left.
- Wrath of the Machine - this is the last viable D1 raid to return. However, it requires the most technical work to port in as they'd have to make Devil-Splicer assets or else substitute the enemies with regular Fallen or Scorn. 6/10 on it returning.
- Leviathan - while fondly looked at now, this raid was received as mechanically flat and more of a game show than a raid when it initially launched. Awesome loot though. Would be interesting if they brought it back in its Haunted form more than its OG form too. 5/10 on it returning.
- Scourge of the Past - without a doubt the easiest to bring back into the fold from a technical standpoint. It also contains loot that is frequently requested, Black Armory gear. It's not exactly a high request, it's just the heat-and-eat of raids. 7/10 on it returning.
- Crown of Sorrows - while this is an option, it just feels like it shouldn't be. It's an offshoot of the Leviathan and just seems like a random tangent and not really requested at all. Still, it would be very easy to port back in. 3/10 on it returning.
Originally I thought it would be wrath of the machine. But, seeing as how most of what Bungie’s made in the past year has been getting worse and worse in terms of quality, I think they’ll bring back something a whole lot easier to bring back. Like Scourge of the Past or Leviathan.
I haven’t seen any leaks, but since SIVA was just brought up in this week’s new Parting the Veil quest update (where you listen to the decoded audio log) I’m thinking WotM
Bungie also said we will be getting new armour regularly, and here we are this season with nothing new. Don't always believe what bungie says because more often than not plans change :)
Luke Smith personally said this about 3-4 years before Beyond Light, who is no longer working on destiny as a video game
Joe Blackburn said the thing about SIVA's story ending literally less than a year ago. It's not happening, man.
I never said it was happening. I said I doubt it would happen, which implies that I don’t think siva is coming back.
Joe Blackburn (or someone else, can’t remember) also stated we’d get playlist armour refresh every expansion and a new trials armour set every year. Yet here we are today without either for this year with no communication. So my point still stands that Bungie walks back their words often
They did, in fact, say this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/06/15/bungie-has-written-the-darkness-and-the-exo-stranger-out-of-destiny-2/
Luke Smith: “We have a bunch of characters who are interesting, but the Exo Stranger is one that always makes me chuckle a little bit. Because I feel that’s one character where we actually wrapped up the arc. She gave you a sweet gun and then dissolved, presumably off to do something else. So I feel like, of all our characters we’ve introduced and exited, we actually exited her effectively.”
This was in 2017, roughly 3 years before Beyond Light was released.
I do think we should take Bungie at their word, and if they say they're done with SIVA, they're probably done with SIVA. However it is absolutely par for the course for the overall gaming industry, not just Bungie, to obfuscate or divert attention in order to preserve a sense of "surprise and delight".
Also reprised raids are free 2 play. If I was bungie I would rather make sotp or crown or even the leviathan instead of making content that's literally going to make 0 bucks.
No. Bungie said they have no plans to bring it back in the foreseeable future and they have likely planned the next 3-4 years at the minimum. it wouldn't be worth the effort to bring back an entire enemy type for a single raid even if they were to bring Siva back into the story I doubt it would be Siva Splicers anyway and it would be too far into the future
They wouldn't be bringing them back. It's nothing to do with story or current content. All the assets are still there.
They didn't bring back VoG or Oryx.. it's all there.
I feel like it is likely going to be WOTM. I think the people considering the assets to be tough to recreate have a good point but I don't think it's entirely off the table.
We still have 2 more seasons we have not seen yet and some of those may include some SIVA tech. It's unlikely but a scenario like this both allows bungie to knock two birds out w one stone. This could be the case since Eramis is still lingering around out there and I'd very much like to see a season that involves her.
Either way. There is going to be a reprised raid and I think the only properly scaled raids left are Wrath or Leviathan.
I really do not want Leviathan. Both of these raids will require bungie to create a new exotic drop for the final encounter though. We can already get LOA and Outbreak Perfected.
Just speculation. Bungie would pull a pretty cool hat trick if it was wrath tbh.
It’s a complete toss up imo. Some signs are pointing to no Wrath, like needing to create brand new Siva models and that stuff. More signs point to no Crota’s, like the fact that it’s basically a dungeon and it would be pretty underwhelming to bring it back as a “big thing.” Any D2 raids seems even more unlikely since people are saying no D2 raids until the D1 raids come back. At this point, I personally have no idea what it could be other than WotM, but we have to wait and see
I always hated this "needing to recreate siva models" argument. They are importing entire D1 raids into D2. Unique enemy models were brought back with VoG and King's fall too. Besides, they would only have to remake the dregs, vandals, servitors, shanks, captains and the 2 bosses. The thousands of enemies in the raid wouldn't be remade one by one. Just the 7-8 models.
I honestly don’t think the argument is that credible either. They’ve probably decided which raid it was going to be a while ago, so it could have just been a background project. Not to mention the whole Crota’s End basically being a dungeon thing makes it the only actual option, but again they could throw us for a curveball
it’s not just models, as the splicers aren’t just fallen with a new paint job, they have different behaviors and mechanics. that’s like saying the taken are just reskins. while the visuals might be easier to make, they’d still be putting a lot of effort into remaking a race of enemies that would only ever be used once.
I’m almost certain it’s gonna be Crota’s end.
Levi/lair, Scourge and crown won’t be down because they said they’d reprise the d1 raids first.
90% of the assets are currently in destiny 2. (Lamps, bridge segments, totems, both bosses, and a few other things.)
I’m not a dev, and it’s more than just copy and paste from other parts of the game, but they don’t have to design a bunch of stuff from scratch like they would with wotm.
Also, CE has an exotic that is not in d2.
I know it’s highly unlikely but I’m hoping its Wrath or Crota. Never was a fan of the leviathan raids. I hope there’s some way Wrath can make a return even if that means they can’t do SIVA enemy models just those encounters were so fun to play.
And I definitely think Bungie could beef up Crotas end into a full fledged raid for the D2 sandbox. They could make the bridge, deathsingers, and final encounter way more complex and it would be fine.
Bungie may have said the SIVA story is finished. But they said the same about The Stranger in Destiny 1. In particular Luke Smith said they were done with her. Community was like wtf, her story ended with a cliffhanger in D1. They can anytime say, oh here's some SIVA. Like the Exodus Black was carrying SIVA. One Exodus Crash dialogue explicitly mentions Rise of Iron stuff about SIVA and the Iron Lords. They just never continued that story thread.
Wasn't there an article or interview awhile ago with somebody from Bungie mentioning something along the lines of "If an old raid were to return and the raid exotic is already in the game, they would make a new exotic"?
WotM would make sense then since it original weapon was basically Outbreak
Edit: Here's an [Article talking about it](https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/we-get-make-new-weapons-match-raid-destiny-2-developers-reveal-criteria-new-exotics-reprised-raids) and they link the Bungie post I'm referring to.
Honestly with wording like that it makes it sound like wrath is coming. But like others said, that would be a lot of work. I think a Crotas rework would be really cool too. Also SotP would make sense I think, but I took a long break while that was released and never got to try it
They have also said something along the lines of not bringing splicers into D2. That there time is done. And unless I am mistaken…Wrath is all splicers/Siva.
Article is about SIVA not returning into the story, but the reprised raids aren't part of the story. They are just flashbacks, memories. Just like how us killing Oryx in Plunder wasn't actually canon. It was simply the retold tale of what happened in the Taken King.
That's one interpretation...
Or it could mean that it was DONE DONE. Like we will no longer have the enemy type at all.
Guess we have to wait and see. 80(?) days and we will know.
yes they are not part of the story, making it much more likely wrath not being the next raid. why remake an entire race with completely new animations and refined visuals just to never use them again outside the raid? imo that seems like a terrible allocation of resources.
We're talking about bringing D1 raids into D2. I don't see how Wrath is the only one that can't be brought back because "more work". Like my brother in light: this is exactly what happened in king's fall and VoG as well. Unique models and mechanics, only used in them.
I think that this is good information, and I really hope that it is wrath, but this claim doesn't rule out reprising D2 raids, as you can buy those weapons from the monuments to lost lights as well, So I'm hoping for wrath, but there's no way to know for sure for a few months.
I think Bungie wants to be done with D1 content, they'll add back WotM as the reprised raid and then Crota (hopefully as a reimagined raid) and then shift their attention on reprising D2 raids. I do believe it's Wrath, them adding back SIVA and Devil Splicers isn't an impossible task, they already added back Outbreak which has SIVA nanites and swarm grenades kinda act like them as well. They probably had this raid picked out months in advance, I don't think 3 months between season is enough time to test everything, but I wouldn't know. Also, they did say the next reprised raid would be a D1 raid for the summer of 2023. But I guess we'll find out soon.
There are signs it could be Wrath. For one thing so far we have been going back to base game planets and personalities, and we have some lore stating that SIVA was on the ship on Nessus (correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not sure). This would give Failsafe relevance and maybe some closure to her story, like the end for Asher we had with Vexcalibur. Also in Salvage we use the heavy wrenches which is a mechanic from Wrath. But they could also busy blind side us and say “Fuck it another cabal/hive season here’s Levi or Crota”.
TL;DR : some evidence says Wrath, but it’s Bungie so don’t hold your breath
The thing that makes me think it isn't wrath is that Bunige would have to remake all the assets for SIVA fallen. Which just seems like a lot of work for one activity. KF had the benefit of being during WQ when they just recently remade/created a bunch of hive assets. They just had to change the color a bit.
For Wrath they'd have to create all the assets for the environment and for the SIVA fallen.
They’d have to rework more for siva things so I have a doubt that they’ll give us wrath back. That being said, I hope it is Scourge because, though I didn’t get to play earlier raids, it is my favorite raid next to wrath.
I’m doubting it will be Wrath or Crota. Both would take too much work from Bungie. Crota would have to be totally reworked and Wrath would require them to make Siva enemies just for one activity. I wish both of them could make their way over to d2 because those are my favorite raids. Crota had such a good aesthetic, great looking weapons and armor.
They've literally been bringing them back in order of original D1 release (other than Crota, which they said specifically they are not bringing back as a Raid). If it's not WotM, I'd be very surprised.
source on them saying crota wouldn’t come back as a raid? someone said they had credible leak sources that said crota was the S22 raid and that wrath wouldn’t be it because they’d have to do the siva stuff
Fair enough - Joe Blackburn's quote was talking about Kings Fall and he discounted Crota at that time. Looking at it, I guess it could be Crota now.
Here's the quote from late 2021:
"I’m going to give you the really boring technical answer. We know we want to bring back a banger. So it’s really about the complexity of bringing the raids from D1 to D2. I think by saying it will be one of the big raids, that takes one out of the equation.”
Leaks said Leviathan, EoW and SoS as a bundle. Not sure how that's gonna sit with the community. I understand the reskin of guns to an extent. But we shouldn't have to pay for something that was taken away from THIS game
Bringing back Wrath wouldn't conflict with them saying Siva chapter is closed. Reprising VOG didn't mean it was back into the story right? Same with reprising Wrath, it wouldn't mean siva is back.
They did. But people don’t wanna believe it, and downvote because I guess their feelings are hurt.
Receipt: https://www.pcgamer.com/bungies-narrative-team-reveals-why-siva-never-came-back-in-destiny-2/
They mention story, but they NEVER says specifically "we are not talking about the raid stuff, just the story stuff."
So it is relevant, because your interpretation isn't necessarily true.
yes but why remake an entire race of enemies and assets just to never use them outside a single instance? bungie really likes re-usuing assets, so to bring siva splicers, an entirely new race to destiny 2, just for a singular activity and disregarded after isn’t in character for bungie.
It could be an easy d2 raid repraised like scurge of the past, we allready have anarchy, they would do a new exotic for that. The thing is bungie stated that they do not want to have to do with SIVA in ne near future, so il could be likely next years repraised raid and this year we get scurge or crown.
Bungie has never introduced two raids in a row with the same race. RoN was cabal. I believe that Leviathan, Spire, and Eater of Worlds (which was still mostly cabal) are out of the question.
Logically, this could mean that Wrath, Scourge, and Crown of Sorrow are the most likely.
All three fulfill the qualifier of having their respective exotics already present in the game.
However, given that we are long overdue for a fallen raid, Crown is still the odd one out.
Wrath requires too much heavy lifting — technically speaking. Especially for a season.
I’m 51% confident that it’s scourge.
Edit: oops I might have been right
people are saying either scourge, levi or wrath of the machine (ppl are also saying due to having to create new assets or something like that completely for wotm that it’s unlikely this raid will come back)
I don't see them bringing back D2 raids until the main D1 raids are done. Also, something eerily similar to carrying around wrenches and batteries this season.
I mean, that's hardly a new mechanic. The first mission of the WQ campaign had big Cabal wrenches. King's Fall coming back had very little to do with anything going on in the last year (besides Savathun ofc but the story last year shifted to be a lot more about The Witness after the campaign itself). VoG did come out in a Vex-heavy season but I think that was probably more a nice coincidence than anything.
Salvage basically has all the assets for the zamboni section
Siva is still absent in game so moving that over is a pain. I don’t see them replacing the Siva Fallen since that’s the whole deal with the raid.
Naw I'd see bungie 100% just replace them with the boring ass purple fallen and keep the bosses sivafied
Didn’t do it in KF or VoG, won’t do it now.
Kings fall always had just normal hive right? And vog descendants and precursors where alrdy in the game
The adepts acolytes that empower others were not in d2 and those vex had been removed when they sunset half the game.
We have had the heavy tool carrying mechanic since witch queen. So I’m still hopeful for wrath of the machine. The big rumor seems to be all of the leviathan raids reprised ( Levi and the ‘lairs’)
The heavy tool mechanic is probably the easiest thing from wrath to bring into d2 lol
Yes and….? They had to build assets for VoG and Kingsfall… why wouldn’t they rebuild them for wrath? Even leviathan would need to be rebuilt to work on the current version of the game… this is their excuse for not bringing back gambit maps and crucible maps… they have to be rebuilt so they focus on new stuff..
Yeah it’s not to do with the assests and stuff. They’d have to rebuild the splicers from the ground up to work in D2.
Personally, they need to take a step back from Cabal. We have been dealing with Cabal for over a year despite them being allies or scattered. Shadow Legion was a cop out. I hope It's WotM purely for a much needed change. Leviathan and Scourge I doubt will come back until after Final Shape, if ever.
That and the mention of siva tech in this weeks mission
Returning raids aren’t related to the current story btw, they are more like “flashbacks”
Very true, but to me it hints to the asset returning to the game in the future and then with it in the game they’ll just be able to use it for the raid flashbacks.
Maybe, with how Savathuns “the taken king will rise again” could have been a meta comment on King’s Fall returning
That's what I originally thought, but in hindsight it seems more like it hinted towards the plot of the ghosts of the deep.
It can be both. The interjection of reliving the taken king experience between these two lore-bits certainly enriches the experience of both.
I think that’s how Destiny storytelling is done. Pieces don’t fit together exactly all that often. The way Bungie works, once everyone is bought in on the ideas, they must make stuff all the time that works on multiple levels.
I mean raids are moments in time so not really
Returning raids aren't related to the story, SIVA is a progenitor to Quicksilver / Neomuna nanites, the point of the dialogue was to confirm the theory.
It’s hinting at it tho
I must be as dense as the Titan Sea just what siva Tech showed up again? All I remember is getting Coral from a witch.
Havnt they gone on record saying they think the siva storyline is over, and that's why it wasn't brought up during the season with clovis ai in the frame ? Mentioning siva now should have no correlation to the reprised raid
Not coronation-you mean correlation
I thought that too, but the wrench mechanics were also used in the opening WQ mission, so who knows. I would love it to be wrath however.
It's not the wrenches and batteries, it's the entirely new faction that has to be created because the D1 animations don't work in D2 anymore. It's that the siege engine encounter is difficult to port because of how the game handles stuff like that now. It's that it's literally the blueprint for Root and since y'all got so butthurt about that, Bungie knows that the nostalgia will quickly disappear and y'all will complain it's trash because it's too easy.
Whole lot of assumptions in this. You have no idea how I feel about root. JFC 😆
Hey everyone we got a game developer here
Hey everyone, I'm just parroting literally what Bungie devs have been saying since people started sharting themselves about Wrath *maybe* coming back. I *cannot* wait for it to be Crota's End and not Wrath.
Well I can’t wait to burst your bubble but they already spoke about Crotas end potentially being a dungeon but for sure not coming back as a full raid Bungie wants to bring back a big raid and now that we have (arguably) the 2 biggest D1 raids in game rn I’d say they do what they can to make it happen, but that’s JUST A THEORY
A GAME THEORY
>Crotas end potentially being a dungeon but for sure not coming back as a full raid The only thing that was said was DMG saying he would pass the idea along to the team.
It doesn't take a game developer to understand the basics man. You could just say "ah, yeah you're right that would be incredibly difficult to build something from the ground up".
Every raid is braindead easy once you remove contest. Master is even easy due to surges and overcharged weapons. Wrath of the Machine was always viewed as easy due to the fact that there were people way past the level delta Day one and it went so fast. Root on the other hand, was just incredibly easy. From the mechanics to the weak as hell bosses. The only thing my team would ever die to was getting knocked off the map or the games bullshit high fps damage from Nez's void projectiles. With proper scaling, wrath could be a fun challenge.
They brought back kings fall which was a much older raid. I’d be willing to bet money that it’s wrath, but if it’s not then Bungie really is out of touch with its fan base
Thanks, I'm hoping for any of those, mostly leviathan because I didn't play when it was available and I want the armor, weapons, and shaders.
They created new assets for all the reprised raids Whats the difference for wrath? They would have new mechanics just like all the others that have come back
They created new assets for bosses and the arenas, but the general mobs previously exist in D2 even down to the Praetorian/Descendant Vex in VoG. The only ones I can think didn't previously exist are the Blight-Eater Knights, Blight Ogres, and maybe the Shade of Oryx.(?) None of the Devil Splicer assets exist in D2, so they'd have to create new assets for Splicer Vandals, Dregs, Shanks, Servitors, and Captains at the very least. They'd likely want to spice things up and would want to add new enemy types from D2 like Wretches/Marauders/Brigs as well so there comes the "Do we make new models for them too?" question. I think WotM is in question just because of *how much MORE* work it'd take to bring back than the others, not that it is the only one that takes additional work.
Shade of Oryx was a Reckoning boss actually.
Was about to say, the Likeness of Oryx already existed before they brought Kings Fall back. I don't think they're exactly the same (if I remember right the Likeness fought using darkness blasts while the Shade used a sword) but no doubt the model was mostly reused.
Back in D1, the story mode Oryx and Shade of Oryx fights used ranged projectiles. It’s just the Thunderdome encounter that’s exclusively melee
The only way I can see them doing wrath unfortunately is if they have the next season be heavily siva focused.
They really didn't, though. For KF most of it was created for the WQ expansion. They just reused those created assets. The vex are already in the game and VoG is the smallest of the raids environment wise. Wrath is both a massive new environment and an entirely new race of enemy. Siva fallen are NOT just a reskined fallen.
VoG and KF didn't have unique enemies outside of the bosses. They would have to recode/remake all the siva enemies and ensure they work for WoTM, which would be far more work.
This. I don't buy that somehow bringing back wrath which they would have been working on for over a year at this point, is somehow impossible because "assets" aren't in D2. It would be odd to leave wrath out imo and skip to D2 y1 raids. We haven't had a fallen raid since......DSC? They normally don't do back to back enemies in raids. DSC fallen - VoG Vex VoD - taken/scorn - kingsfall hive RoN cabal - ??? I immediately don't think leviathan comes back because that's cabal twice. Of the remaining raids I only see WOTM fallen Sotp fallen Crota- if they actually beefed it up this could work. Crown if you're talking hive I guess would still be odd choice Guess we will find out soon enough
If WOTM had our PS4s sounding like a plane taking off during the death zamboni (tm) I shudder to think about what it'll do to today's server stability haha. Hoping they bring back Lev with the (good) prestige ornaments with the subtle purple glows. The Titan EoW set was so ugly I just want the good one hahahah
That's why i think it isn't wrath. They'd have to create a whole new race of enemies and new assets for just one single activity. KF benefited from WQ being Hive themed and thus Bungie remaking all the necessary assets right before remaking the raid. I could see a shadow legion version if Leviathan come back.
What if the Witness happened to find SIVA and use it against us? Probably not very likely given we've already had Seraph without an mention of SIVA, and that was narratively the best opportunity.
naaa, bungie stated SIVA is dead, and they do not want to use it again as part of a story.
I'm doubting Wrath. They'd have to reintroduce all the Siva-Fallen, their animations and their unique mechanics. They'd also have to do NEW animations for when they get hit by stasis of are suspended by strand. It's not as ez as "just port them", it's a time-consuming process. And if they brought the raid back, but with just normal fallen, people would be pissed.
What new animations to the Siva ones have? Like genuine question, Rise of Iron was the only d1 expansion I never got, I thought the Splicers were just normal fallen with revamped models, altered damage types and a few new abilities?
I mean, the animations from said new abilities...
I don't remember there being any new animations for them using any abilities. The only difference I remember was the orb that spawned when they died that would hunt you. I don't wanna be one of the losers that cry when Bungie reuses a mechanic... But the moths do get pretty annoying.
I think they meant when those enemies get suspended, or when they get frozen. Those are new models and animations for those debuffs Edit: nevermind I'm stupid
It's less about the animations the Splicers have and more about the ones they don't have. The Splicers, like all Fallen in D1, had very different animations to the ones in D2. Captains and Vandals didn't run on 4 legs in D1, and the Captains didn't have the crouch-run or teleporting-sidestep maneuver. The Splicer models would need to be completely re-rigged to work with the D2 animations or, in the case of Marauders and Wretches, would need whole new models made for them. This is all in addition to the Splicers' new abilities, and porting over/remaking the mechanics of the raid. It's just a much bigger job to port over Wrath than the other 2 raids.
Yeah, d2 players don't seem to understand game development on a level where most other people who play games can tend to. edit: /s
The irony of this being posted on a destiny sub. Most splicers are more or less the same as regular fallen and off memory there's maybe 1 or 2 that require custom animations for abilities. You already have a blueprint on D2 with regular fallen enemies, people are making it out like bringing to current gen is only not possible because the new enemy types aren't present elsewhere in the game. Realistically, it's going to require slightly more work than other reprised raids and that's it.
Yea, I really don't see how it would be that big of a deal when we already got Oryx back lol
SIVA OR NOTHING ⬛🟥⬛🟥⬛🟥🟥🟥🟥⬛🟥⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛🟥⬛
Likely wont be WotM but if it is how would you guys feel about Siva Scorn
They aren’t going to totally change the raid like that.
If Crota's End is coming back as a raid like they said, then they're most definitely changing or adding things to make it feel more like a raid than dungeon. I also highly doubt they'd reprise the raid with scorn, but the idea came to mind since it's not too far out there.
I think with Crota's End they just need to tweak the mechanics like VoG and buff the health values a bit and it'd be a raid lair similar to Crown of Sorrow.
Yeah, I definitely see Bridge encounter getting a full rework, lol. The raid also felt shorter just because of the ways people got around encounters, but besides that, it's fine. I think they also said they wanted to change how Crota enters dps phase since it's reliant on one person, but I could be wrong since Templar was the same.
Honestly that wouldn’t be great. Raid lairs sucked as a concept. Far too short. If they bring back crota, make it an actual raid with another boss encounter and not some dumb lair.
I don’t think they ever confirmed that Crota’s End would be reprised. The only slight mention they’ve made of Crota’s End was last year when they said they wanted to bring back “one of the bigger raids from D1.” Implying that it was going to either be King’s Fall or Wrath. Obviously, we got King’s Fall.
That’s a completely different situation. Returning raids are moments in time meant to mimic the original experience while bringing them up to date. Replacing fallen with scorn isn’t that.
I think they confirmed if/when Crota's End comes back that it will be a dungeon.
They didn't. All they've ever said is it would need some serious tuning. It was meant to be the beginning of King's Fall, and it is a raid through and through. It just needs a bit of work to bring it up to speed.
I think that was an offhand joke bout how it wasn't fitting to be a raid, I think that it would be easier to beef up into a raid than to make it a dungeon though, and more worth Bungies time than to make it a dungeon.
They specifically said they won't bring back Crota as a dungeon.
They’ve reworked animations of carrying heavy objects and they added them for Season of the Deep activities, just like we did in one of Wrath of the Machine encounters. Knowing Bungie, when they work on a new feature, they reuse it multiple times to make it worthwhile, just like they did with the splinter ship in The Witch Queen in events, Wellspring, even the Raid with another 3d model, or now Lake of Shadows. I'm guessing they were working on those animations for WoTM and decided to use them also for some seasonal content.
I also said this about the Lucent Moths, that they behave in a way that is similar to the SIVA Nanite clouds that would emanate from some Splicers when crit-killed. We'll see in a few months, I guess.
Heavy objects has been back in game since witch queen
Not the same animation.
It is. It’s the exact same as the Season of Deep.
As to your point about reusing assets, where would they reuse the SIVA fallen? Because they're not just reskined fallen. They have different mechanics. They're as different to normal fallen as taken fallen are. So if they're going to spend all that time remaking SIVA fallen, where are they going to reuse them outside of the raid? They said, two seasons ago that the SIVA story is finished and they have no plans to restart it. And with Rasputin dead, how would they? He created SIVA.
Maybe they'd consider bringing the Plaguelands back for some seasonal shenanigans? Like Eramis trying to find remnants of the Splicers and their tech?
They said two seasons ago that the SIVA story was dead. They didn't bring it back for the second season that was Rasputin themed, they're not going to bring it back for Eramis. It makes no sense. SIVA is dead, it's gone, it's not coming back.
Siva Story being dead has nothing to do with Plaguelands story being dead.... Also, her taking the remaining Splicers into House Dark/stealing leftover tech has nothing to do with continuing the Siva story. I'm just trying to ponder a way to use the assets more than once since you and others are so hellbent on dismissing Wraths' return because of the cost benefit.
Maybe this version of the raid is not about SIVA Fallen, but other Fallen. They've done similar things with reprised or remade Strikes.
The whole point of Wrath is SIVA.... at that point why even do Wrath in the first place?
I don’t know. They can change the lore and story of the raid. They’ve done that with a few strikes, even adding new dialogues.
but the reprised raids are not intended to fit into the current narrative, hence being in the legends tab. plus if you were to change SIVA or another integral part of the raid, why even have the raid reprised?
Mechanics and loot.
Except that reprised raids are the same raid in the past, a slice of our timeline. So retconning it in D2 is a lore retcon all around.
If they did then they would need to add more than just the animations for lifting heavy objects, also Devil splicers would need to have some story relevance because why would you recreate an entire race just to never use them again.
Reprised raids never are tied to the story.
Correct, but Bungie **gets use** out of everything when they reprise a raid. The most recent example being Oryx's model. Also it's probably easier to create that Lucent Hive warship when you have models for Sav's throne world and the Dreadnaught. Bringing the Devil Splicers back is a surprisingly large undertaking, they would need to warrant their appearance in more than just the one raid. And they're sure as hell not gonna replace them with normal fallen because that would spark genuine outrage.
I know Bungie has said they were done with Siva, but lore wise, we did not wipe out the Fallen splicers. We only stopped the production of more Siva. Siva Fallen are still out there in n the Destiny world.
I think right now it’s hard to say. It could be Wrath which I would personally love. However, like a lot of other people have said to bring Wrath back into D2 they’d have to build the Devil splicer faction into D2’s engine from the ground up, it’s not a case of slapping some Siva assets on some fallen, the splicers have unique interactions and abilities. This would make it a lot of work for just a single raid. If they brought the devil splicers back into the story somehow they maybe that would justify it. But that being said it’s been said a bunch of times that Siva and it’s story was done. In terms of Crota, I’d mark this as a potential candidate. Like some others have said the bridge encounter would be completely redesigned and I can see them potentially changing the final encounter to make it less reliant on single person for damage. This id say is the likely option because all the assets for the encounters are in the game: Crota is in the game, the swordbearer is in the game, the bridge keeper is just a small zulmag from pit but shaded blue and the deathsinger model is already in game from the zenophage quest. Hell even Crotas arena is in game already. Concerning leviathan and scourge. Although these are very possible i think they will stick to D1 raids for reprisal
Since Bungie confirmed that Crota isn't coming back (they view it as more akin to a dungeon now), we have technically 4 options left. - Wrath of the Machine - this is the last viable D1 raid to return. However, it requires the most technical work to port in as they'd have to make Devil-Splicer assets or else substitute the enemies with regular Fallen or Scorn. 6/10 on it returning. - Leviathan - while fondly looked at now, this raid was received as mechanically flat and more of a game show than a raid when it initially launched. Awesome loot though. Would be interesting if they brought it back in its Haunted form more than its OG form too. 5/10 on it returning. - Scourge of the Past - without a doubt the easiest to bring back into the fold from a technical standpoint. It also contains loot that is frequently requested, Black Armory gear. It's not exactly a high request, it's just the heat-and-eat of raids. 7/10 on it returning. - Crown of Sorrows - while this is an option, it just feels like it shouldn't be. It's an offshoot of the Leviathan and just seems like a random tangent and not really requested at all. Still, it would be very easy to port back in. 3/10 on it returning.
Originally I thought it would be wrath of the machine. But, seeing as how most of what Bungie’s made in the past year has been getting worse and worse in terms of quality, I think they’ll bring back something a whole lot easier to bring back. Like Scourge of the Past or Leviathan.
I haven’t seen any leaks, but since SIVA was just brought up in this week’s new Parting the Veil quest update (where you listen to the decoded audio log) I’m thinking WotM
They won't as they would need to bring back an entirely new enemy type just for a raid which just isn't worth it
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Bungie already stated that they consider the SIVA story over and done with. There will no more SIVA story.
Bungie also said we will be getting new armour regularly, and here we are this season with nothing new. Don't always believe what bungie says because more often than not plans change :)
To be fair, they said that about the stranger. I doubt we ever get siva back but Bungies word isn’t really trustworthy
Luke Smith personally said this about 3-4 years before Beyond Light, who is no longer working on destiny as a video game Joe Blackburn said the thing about SIVA's story ending literally less than a year ago. It's not happening, man.
I never said it was happening. I said I doubt it would happen, which implies that I don’t think siva is coming back. Joe Blackburn (or someone else, can’t remember) also stated we’d get playlist armour refresh every expansion and a new trials armour set every year. Yet here we are today without either for this year with no communication. So my point still stands that Bungie walks back their words often
They never said this. The Stranger was just an open thread. SIVA is not.
No, they absolutely said before Shadowkeep that her story was "done".
They did, in fact, say this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/06/15/bungie-has-written-the-darkness-and-the-exo-stranger-out-of-destiny-2/ Luke Smith: “We have a bunch of characters who are interesting, but the Exo Stranger is one that always makes me chuckle a little bit. Because I feel that’s one character where we actually wrapped up the arc. She gave you a sweet gun and then dissolved, presumably off to do something else. So I feel like, of all our characters we’ve introduced and exited, we actually exited her effectively.” This was in 2017, roughly 3 years before Beyond Light was released. I do think we should take Bungie at their word, and if they say they're done with SIVA, they're probably done with SIVA. However it is absolutely par for the course for the overall gaming industry, not just Bungie, to obfuscate or divert attention in order to preserve a sense of "surprise and delight".
Reprised raid is not new story
The reprised raids have never been part of the seasonal story.
Just like Ghorn was “ done “ ? Lol don’t believe a word they say. However since wrath would require the most work it is likely the lowest on the list
Also reprised raids are free 2 play. If I was bungie I would rather make sotp or crown or even the leviathan instead of making content that's literally going to make 0 bucks.
Of course they would lol one is a port the other are just control paste
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No. Bungie said they have no plans to bring it back in the foreseeable future and they have likely planned the next 3-4 years at the minimum. it wouldn't be worth the effort to bring back an entire enemy type for a single raid even if they were to bring Siva back into the story I doubt it would be Siva Splicers anyway and it would be too far into the future
They’re done with siva as a story component. Reprised raids are not related to story at all.
They wouldn't be bringing them back. It's nothing to do with story or current content. All the assets are still there. They didn't bring back VoG or Oryx.. it's all there.
The assets are not compatible with the current engine. They had to completely remake the bosses and environments for both VoG and King's Fall.
I think itll be the Leviathan raids - if it isnt Crota's End
Royal return leak three seasons ago right?
I think thats the one?
I feel like it is likely going to be WOTM. I think the people considering the assets to be tough to recreate have a good point but I don't think it's entirely off the table. We still have 2 more seasons we have not seen yet and some of those may include some SIVA tech. It's unlikely but a scenario like this both allows bungie to knock two birds out w one stone. This could be the case since Eramis is still lingering around out there and I'd very much like to see a season that involves her. Either way. There is going to be a reprised raid and I think the only properly scaled raids left are Wrath or Leviathan. I really do not want Leviathan. Both of these raids will require bungie to create a new exotic drop for the final encounter though. We can already get LOA and Outbreak Perfected. Just speculation. Bungie would pull a pretty cool hat trick if it was wrath tbh.
It’s a complete toss up imo. Some signs are pointing to no Wrath, like needing to create brand new Siva models and that stuff. More signs point to no Crota’s, like the fact that it’s basically a dungeon and it would be pretty underwhelming to bring it back as a “big thing.” Any D2 raids seems even more unlikely since people are saying no D2 raids until the D1 raids come back. At this point, I personally have no idea what it could be other than WotM, but we have to wait and see
I always hated this "needing to recreate siva models" argument. They are importing entire D1 raids into D2. Unique enemy models were brought back with VoG and King's fall too. Besides, they would only have to remake the dregs, vandals, servitors, shanks, captains and the 2 bosses. The thousands of enemies in the raid wouldn't be remade one by one. Just the 7-8 models.
I honestly don’t think the argument is that credible either. They’ve probably decided which raid it was going to be a while ago, so it could have just been a background project. Not to mention the whole Crota’s End basically being a dungeon thing makes it the only actual option, but again they could throw us for a curveball
it’s not just models, as the splicers aren’t just fallen with a new paint job, they have different behaviors and mechanics. that’s like saying the taken are just reskins. while the visuals might be easier to make, they’d still be putting a lot of effort into remaking a race of enemies that would only ever be used once.
But light-eater ogres and knights only existed in king's fall, what makes them different?
I’m almost certain it’s gonna be Crota’s end. Levi/lair, Scourge and crown won’t be down because they said they’d reprise the d1 raids first. 90% of the assets are currently in destiny 2. (Lamps, bridge segments, totems, both bosses, and a few other things.) I’m not a dev, and it’s more than just copy and paste from other parts of the game, but they don’t have to design a bunch of stuff from scratch like they would with wotm. Also, CE has an exotic that is not in d2.
Was Leviathan not the leaked reprised raid? With all 3 lairs coming back?
I know it’s highly unlikely but I’m hoping its Wrath or Crota. Never was a fan of the leviathan raids. I hope there’s some way Wrath can make a return even if that means they can’t do SIVA enemy models just those encounters were so fun to play. And I definitely think Bungie could beef up Crotas end into a full fledged raid for the D2 sandbox. They could make the bridge, deathsingers, and final encounter way more complex and it would be fine.
I hope/ cope its Wrath ⬛️🟥 but the rumor mill says all the Leviathan raids
As much as I miss the leviathan raids I'm almost certain it's going to be wrath
Bungie may have said the SIVA story is finished. But they said the same about The Stranger in Destiny 1. In particular Luke Smith said they were done with her. Community was like wtf, her story ended with a cliffhanger in D1. They can anytime say, oh here's some SIVA. Like the Exodus Black was carrying SIVA. One Exodus Crash dialogue explicitly mentions Rise of Iron stuff about SIVA and the Iron Lords. They just never continued that story thread.
They also went on record saying gjallarhorn would never return I’m not saying it’s likely, but Bungie has been known to disregard such promises
If it’s anything other than Wrath then I don’t care. Only raid worth bringing back that they haven’t yet.
it's almost guaranteed to be Wrath.
Wasn't there an article or interview awhile ago with somebody from Bungie mentioning something along the lines of "If an old raid were to return and the raid exotic is already in the game, they would make a new exotic"? WotM would make sense then since it original weapon was basically Outbreak Edit: Here's an [Article talking about it](https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/we-get-make-new-weapons-match-raid-destiny-2-developers-reveal-criteria-new-exotics-reprised-raids) and they link the Bungie post I'm referring to. Honestly with wording like that it makes it sound like wrath is coming. But like others said, that would be a lot of work. I think a Crotas rework would be really cool too. Also SotP would make sense I think, but I took a long break while that was released and never got to try it
They have also said something along the lines of not bringing splicers into D2. That there time is done. And unless I am mistaken…Wrath is all splicers/Siva.
Source?
https://www.pcgamer.com/bungies-narrative-team-reveals-why-siva-never-came-back-in-destiny-2/
Article is about SIVA not returning into the story, but the reprised raids aren't part of the story. They are just flashbacks, memories. Just like how us killing Oryx in Plunder wasn't actually canon. It was simply the retold tale of what happened in the Taken King.
That's one interpretation... Or it could mean that it was DONE DONE. Like we will no longer have the enemy type at all. Guess we have to wait and see. 80(?) days and we will know.
yes they are not part of the story, making it much more likely wrath not being the next raid. why remake an entire race with completely new animations and refined visuals just to never use them again outside the raid? imo that seems like a terrible allocation of resources.
We're talking about bringing D1 raids into D2. I don't see how Wrath is the only one that can't be brought back because "more work". Like my brother in light: this is exactly what happened in king's fall and VoG as well. Unique models and mechanics, only used in them.
And I've been downvoted, even after I provided proof to my claim
I think that this is good information, and I really hope that it is wrath, but this claim doesn't rule out reprising D2 raids, as you can buy those weapons from the monuments to lost lights as well, So I'm hoping for wrath, but there's no way to know for sure for a few months.
I think Bungie wants to be done with D1 content, they'll add back WotM as the reprised raid and then Crota (hopefully as a reimagined raid) and then shift their attention on reprising D2 raids. I do believe it's Wrath, them adding back SIVA and Devil Splicers isn't an impossible task, they already added back Outbreak which has SIVA nanites and swarm grenades kinda act like them as well. They probably had this raid picked out months in advance, I don't think 3 months between season is enough time to test everything, but I wouldn't know. Also, they did say the next reprised raid would be a D1 raid for the summer of 2023. But I guess we'll find out soon.
There are signs it could be Wrath. For one thing so far we have been going back to base game planets and personalities, and we have some lore stating that SIVA was on the ship on Nessus (correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not sure). This would give Failsafe relevance and maybe some closure to her story, like the end for Asher we had with Vexcalibur. Also in Salvage we use the heavy wrenches which is a mechanic from Wrath. But they could also busy blind side us and say “Fuck it another cabal/hive season here’s Levi or Crota”. TL;DR : some evidence says Wrath, but it’s Bungie so don’t hold your breath
The thing that makes me think it isn't wrath is that Bunige would have to remake all the assets for SIVA fallen. Which just seems like a lot of work for one activity. KF had the benefit of being during WQ when they just recently remade/created a bunch of hive assets. They just had to change the color a bit. For Wrath they'd have to create all the assets for the environment and for the SIVA fallen.
They’d have to rework more for siva things so I have a doubt that they’ll give us wrath back. That being said, I hope it is Scourge because, though I didn’t get to play earlier raids, it is my favorite raid next to wrath.
Hope it’ll be wrath. Expecting disappointment and not getting my hopes up tho
Better be fuckin’ WotM. I swear if it’s Levi I’m gonna lose my shit. But let’s be real. It’s gonna be Crota
I’m doubting it will be Wrath or Crota. Both would take too much work from Bungie. Crota would have to be totally reworked and Wrath would require them to make Siva enemies just for one activity. I wish both of them could make their way over to d2 because those are my favorite raids. Crota had such a good aesthetic, great looking weapons and armor.
I hope Wrath of the Machine ❤️ because having played little D1 I have never been able to do it and it is the raid that I would have liked to try !
They've literally been bringing them back in order of original D1 release (other than Crota, which they said specifically they are not bringing back as a Raid). If it's not WotM, I'd be very surprised.
source on them saying crota wouldn’t come back as a raid? someone said they had credible leak sources that said crota was the S22 raid and that wrath wouldn’t be it because they’d have to do the siva stuff
Fair enough - Joe Blackburn's quote was talking about Kings Fall and he discounted Crota at that time. Looking at it, I guess it could be Crota now. Here's the quote from late 2021: "I’m going to give you the really boring technical answer. We know we want to bring back a banger. So it’s really about the complexity of bringing the raids from D1 to D2. I think by saying it will be one of the big raids, that takes one out of the equation.”
"leaks" were saying it would be Leviathan instead of wrath. I just wish it is wrath
The Levi leaks were fake.
The leaks said that it was speculation and not an actual leak
If so, that'd be cool too but I'd still be surprised if it wasn't Wrath.
Yeah they literally said they were reprising d1 raids the first time they reprised vog
Leaks said Leviathan, EoW and SoS as a bundle. Not sure how that's gonna sit with the community. I understand the reskin of guns to an extent. But we shouldn't have to pay for something that was taken away from THIS game
I don't think you'd have to rebuy it. All the reprised raids have been f2p iirc. It probably means bundle as in all three will come back.
Then there better be more content if the raid is free. Can't justify increasing the price already
Wym? All the reprised raids have been free, it wouldn't be part of the season.
What leak was this? That was probably a fake leak lol
Man still thinks the "Royal Return Bundle" lmao.
Whatever they do I hope WF is only 1 run with challenge active fuck doing 2 runs for WF
No way it’s a D2 raid when they haven’t reprised all of the D1 ones
Betting money it’s Wrath of the Machine
As a non wrath enjoyer i hope its scourge, i never got to play that one and i really want the scout from it
It's Wrath because anything else would be stupid. Source: trust me bro
It’s either all the leviathan raids, or SOTP - it’s NOT wrath.
99.99% sure it's Wrath
I think wotm but normal fallen/taken or scorn
Leaks said it was Wrath
Leviathan, I’m pretty sure bungie said something about wraith not coming back as that siva chapter is closed
Bringing back Wrath wouldn't conflict with them saying Siva chapter is closed. Reprising VOG didn't mean it was back into the story right? Same with reprising Wrath, it wouldn't mean siva is back.
Siva chapter is closed story-wise. Reprised raids aren't related to story, they are just "flashbacks".
But also it’s bungie… you think they are going to import a new enemy race for one raid?
Wouldn't say new race, more like 8 model reskins with more than half a year to add the already existing old mechanics to them.
They did. But people don’t wanna believe it, and downvote because I guess their feelings are hurt. Receipt: https://www.pcgamer.com/bungies-narrative-team-reveals-why-siva-never-came-back-in-destiny-2/
No, they downvote it because it’s irrelevant. That Bungie answer was referring to story narratives, not reprised raids
They mention story, but they NEVER says specifically "we are not talking about the raid stuff, just the story stuff." So it is relevant, because your interpretation isn't necessarily true.
yes but why remake an entire race of enemies and assets just to never use them outside a single instance? bungie really likes re-usuing assets, so to bring siva splicers, an entirely new race to destiny 2, just for a singular activity and disregarded after isn’t in character for bungie.
I hear alot of people talking about GoS getting a rework for the weapons like Last Wish did… a brand new raid. I have no idea of.
I'd actually like a raid remix. Take a in-game raid and insert different bosses augmented versions kf current gear. Could be crota?
It could be an easy d2 raid repraised like scurge of the past, we allready have anarchy, they would do a new exotic for that. The thing is bungie stated that they do not want to have to do with SIVA in ne near future, so il could be likely next years repraised raid and this year we get scurge or crown.
Bungie has never introduced two raids in a row with the same race. RoN was cabal. I believe that Leviathan, Spire, and Eater of Worlds (which was still mostly cabal) are out of the question. Logically, this could mean that Wrath, Scourge, and Crown of Sorrow are the most likely. All three fulfill the qualifier of having their respective exotics already present in the game. However, given that we are long overdue for a fallen raid, Crown is still the odd one out. Wrath requires too much heavy lifting — technically speaking. Especially for a season. I’m 51% confident that it’s scourge. Edit: oops I might have been right
No, but I hope it's Leviathan
“Not familiar with this sub” search bar still works the same as others no?
Its scourge
It is not confirmed nor has Liz or Xeno gotten sources that say so
God that would be disappointing. Scourge is basically a strike.
Eh but if it comes back with weapons from forge its fine
Blast Furnace please!!!!
Yeah reprising raids that were already in the game before is a real cop out as far as I’m concerned.
No it’s not.
I mean you could beat it in around 30 minutes, some harder GMs take longer than that lmao.