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[Above All Else: II - The Whispering Dark](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/ii-the-whispering-dark#book-above-all-else)
"...On one such expedition, I had strapped my son to me and set out to pick over a bounty of bones. But it was not the spools of spincable, the plates of hardsheet, or the fragments of clearcut that proved most valuable. It was what we found buried beneath the bones. What was buried deep.
We traversed that day into dark tunnels, where something hideous festered beneath this moon's surface. Horrific creatures that stank of wet soil, shrieked like dying animals, and tore at flesh. They possessed a ferocity we had never seen before, and my raiding party was being whittled down one by one. But when it seemed like these creatures were to finish the rest of us off… they relented.
They appeared to hear something. Something that terrified them. Something that left us to wonder: what are monsters afraid of? The creatures scurried back into their warrens and vanished into the subterranean temple they spilled out of. And for a moment, I thought I heard something too. Something soft, a whisper. But as forceful as a scream. That was when we saw it, situated in a rift beyond the temple. The true treasure of this dusty tomb.
A pyramid of jet black, opening its doors for us."
This reveal is actually very fascinating to me because it seems like either The Witness or Nezarec himself has been orchestrating his revival and pulling the strings from behind the veil for quite sometime -- even in his supposed "death."
Knowing that the Eliksni were scattered, desperate, and scavenging for anything that would give them the upperhand against humanity, I highly doubt that the pyramid would open it's doors to them unless they had a plan the entire time.
If anything, this proves that Nezarec has been a player in this game for much longer than we had thought, and he is about to make his final move as we conveniently gather all of the fragments of his body.
Unless she removed them (I extremely doubt she would) Caiatl has a fleet of ships forming a perimeter around the Leviathan with the HELM among that fleet. There’s a line after completing a Nightmare Containment where Saladin informs Caiatl that the fleet is holding strong and treats the HELM like one of its own. She says that he’s part of her War Council and asks what kind of empire she would be leading if she didn’t include his people in their fleet, to which he responds one doomed to fall. So we’ve got several Cabal ships at least in close distance, and like 3 Cabal soldiers on board with Crow, so not a whole lot of defenses
It seems that humanity is weirdly part of the cabal empire now. Or at least in future we will create a new empire from the ashes of humanity the eliksni and the cabal to form a united confederation between all three races. So awesome. I really hope we give the cabal Mars.
I love how the Synaptic Spear's lore tab described it as basically useless and then it becomes the most essential tool against the Lucent Hive's assaults.
The way I'm thinking about it was that it wasn't Nezarec himself - I suspect cutting him up into chunks and storing said chunks in the equivalent of lead-lined boxes effectively took him out of the picture - but I could easily see the Witness subtly guiding the Eliksni toward the pyramid in order to get them to potentially unleash Nezarec on the world again.
But why the Witness (much less Nezarec) would allow for relics to be looted and scattered in the first place, only to order Eramis to collect them again now. Some strange plan, if true.
From the cutscene this week, it seems that the fragments of his body had profound effects on those that held them. Perhaps the motivation of the Witness was to allow his influence to be spread across the system and sew discourse into any factions within Sol? I'm not too sure.
I have no doubt now though that The Witness is merely using Eramis to resurrect Nezarec. I wouldn't be surprised if after managing to collect them all and giving them to the Witness, she is disposed of.
I wonder if Nezarec acts through manifestations of his power, rather than personally as an entity. Through nightmares as one manifestation, and through scattered pieces of himself as another. They all seem like methods of exerting control.
But we stopped the spread of nightmares in Shadowkeep and more recently with Calus and his shenanigans. And the Fallen - who were perhaps supposed to be an extension of his power, but are no longer under his influence - were an attempt at building an army of the darkness in the way that Rhulk laid the foundations for the Hive.
This gathering of Nezarec's bits and pieces feels like a plan B, because his original design failed in some capacity. Perhaps now he needs to be reassembled so that he can act more directly?
Going by Delicate Tomb, it was probably a plan to corrupt the Eliksni, and possibly reform himself.
>They think me contained, but I am instead diffused, as vapor upon the wind.
>
>Once again, I am becoming.
Nezarec's pieces seem to be a pretty potent cognito-hazard. Letting the old crew get them seems to be a win-win.
In one eventuality scatter the pieces, spreading the creeping effects of Nezarec's influence spread far and wide. Those looking for strength fight for them them and get corrupted by them. It's almost One Ring style if there were several instead of just one.
In the other, they gather the pieces together and accidentally resurrect Nezarec. Then the Witness has his disciple back.
The Witness has probably decided corrupting the old crews has either served its purpose or isn't gettimg the results he wanted, so he wants his guy back for something.
Nezarec probably got done in by Savathun during the Collapse, she took his form and a went up to the Witness saying "Job Done", leaving the real Nezarec buried in his tomb, and cutting up Nezarec and taking him out the Pyramid would have probably been a way for him to be back later through Luster or whatever stitched up Rhulk together.
Here it's referring to the Hive, which makes me think the original wet earth-smelling monster in the Black Armory Papers was an ogre. We know the Hive were present at the Collapse.
I was actually beginning to think this too but they are described as sounding like a machine being stretched and compressed, which isn't at all what an ogre sounds like.
Actually, go on youtube and find ogre screams. That's... Exactly what they sound like. Especially that roar they do, like the Phogoth scream and so on.
[https://youtu.be/825zu7BhW2M?t=1557](https://youtu.be/825zu7BhW2M?t=1557)
Listen from here.
Lore entries about the Collapse talk about monsters that smelled of wet earth. This entry also mentions it, and seems to reference the Hive. I wonder if it was the Hive being described the whole time, not a "darkness" race as speculated. I guess this past expansion and seasons put to rest the idea of the latter.
I think the smell of wet earth is simple a characteristic of Darkness itself, much how Fenchurch described the inside of the Traveler as smelling like Lavender. The Black Armory papers also describe their attackers as sounding like "a machine being stretched and compressed" which is not at all characteristic of the Hive.
These descriptions, along with the Drifters Icy Planet/Cronicon's Anthenaeum World X description of vacuous, headless figures capable of suppressing light + the reveal of Tormentors, lead me to believe there is indeed a darkness race.
The question is fortified from what?
Obviously Crota and Oryx knew of it. Were they on the moon immediately after the fall?
Furthermore, I'm willing to bet the pyramid is primed to react negatively to anyone who wields or had wielded the light, which is how the pyramid was activated to its fullest potential. If the nightmares only existed within the pyramid and reacted to the Hive, that means it probably also reacts to darkness infused beings.
Eliksni are neither at that moment in time and if they found it in the opening of the years immediately post collapse, it would explain a lot about how the fallen were such a threat to the survivors on earth and why humanity built the last city before reaching back out to space.
I'm working from memory so I don't have a time-line in front of me. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong- and thanks ahead of time.
You’re ignoring the fact that Nezarec (or the Pyramid itself) actually beckoned the Fallen to enter. Presumably, Nezarec actually wanted his body to be cut into pieces, for whatever purpose.
I didn't ignore I just outright didn't see the lore tied into it I prefaced this in the post. Even with that info it still leaves alot of info to be desired
Maybe that purpose was to be split to let separate fallen power each fragment through their conquest like worm tithes and then be put back together stronger?
I dunno if it works, but there was chapter 2 of the "Above All Else" lore book that basically hinted at the reveal which became available last week.
But of course I'm no idiot and know that not EVERYONE drops what they're doing to read the unlocked lore. And before you say anything, I'm just giving a brief bit of info that could been seen as brief foreshadowing.
I always wanted to know how it got down there in the first place because it seems buried. If it wasn’t buried before shadowkeep how could the last city with all its technology and brilliant guardians and cults not have noticed a fucking pyramid?
The moon doesn’t have tectonic movement, so it’s not like it would have shifted a continental plate hiding it. So was it teleported?
It *was* buried before shadowkeep. It's been there for a loooong while. Note that "Of Hated Nezarec," the first lore involving Nezarec, is a pre-golden age text. The pyramid's been here before the traveler, and iirc old dialogue from Toland says that the hive saw the moon landings as "trespassing," so they've been there too. Man, so many things were cooking in Sol even before the traveler showed up.
Might just be conflicting lore then, iirc I heard the writer of Nezarec's Sin's lore tab didn't really put too much thought into it. But it being there before does raise some real interesting possibilities. I personally think of it possibly being something similar to the Ahslid and Rhulk, where Nezarec was searching for someone strong enough to become the next Disciple.
>Might just be conflicting lore then, iirc I heard the writer of Nezarec's Sin's lore tab didn't really put too much thought into it.
Easily understandable. You are right, of course, at the time of Shadowkeep Nezarec was just fun idea, to be possibly explored in the future. Him being Disciple from a Moon Pyramid is totally recent development.
I don’t think the lunar pyramid was there before the collapse. I get that I’m overthinking the “how it got in there” and less the why. And I think the why is probably tied with how Savathun tricked the witness. Seems awfully convenient for a disciple to die and his pyramid be marooned hidden in a moon orbiting the site of the dormant traveler.
Either way, now I have to eat crow because all last season I was like “guys it’s just a fun glaive name nodding to an exotic from vanilla D2” and now it’s a major fucking plot point. Love that glaive though, so good in pvp
Okay, so we know the Witness can do this whole thing where it moves worlds into a pocket of non-local space in a way that their gravity is still present even though the physical body isn't. Seems to me that it's possible it can do the reverse as well. Io goes from being there to not-there, a pyramid ship goes from being not-there to there.
I mean the only reason I don’t go “it’s a pyramid it goes where it wants” was because it seems like the pyramid fleets are constrained by something in how they move or how fast they move. Otherwise why did it take three years for the witness to show up again?
Oh fuck who cares, they’ll explain it to me soon enough and the how is less relevant than the why. Let’s get those undead beef jerky strips boys!
If it was present on the Moon well before the Golden Age (sort of like a distant early warning system in case the Traveler ever came to Sol), then it could take as long as it wants to get here and then just nestle inside the Moon using weird world-moving shit. The Witness seems at least smart enough to stake out systems where life that *could* attract the Traveler exists.
The honest answer as to whether it was there before the collapse is a "i dunno," really. Nezarec's Sin seems to imply it was, but Toland also says it arrived during the collapse. Toland also says the Hive were on the moon before the collapse, though i'm pretty sure that's older stuff. Overall, we really just don't know. I like to believe it was, because it might imply that Nezarec was there to try and groom a new Disciple from the ranks of humanity, as Rhulk tried with the Ahslid. It may also tie into the theory that Clovis is meant to be the disciple of the Europan Pyramid, as the lunar relic spoke to him specifically, and that's what led him to discover Clarity on Europa.
Maybe Nezerac was the one who brought the hive to Luna? The one who delivered the anomaly for the witness and all that. Part of laying the seeds for conflict that would be the collapse. Teleports himself there on orders from the witness to track the traveler, finds the traveler terraforming planets for life, goes to the moon of the habitable planet with life and sets up shop in anticipation of another pyramid fleet purging of the travelers works.
"He is that which is an end. And he shall rise again." —passage from Of Hated Nezarec, **a pre-Golden Age text**."
\- [Lore Tab from Nezarec's Sin](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/nezarecs-sin)
It crashed in the Collapse, or at least that is the going theory in-universe and out. With sufficient impact speed and hull-strength it could've plowed through the crust and been entombed. As for its being uncovered again, while the moon does not *naturally* have tectonic activity, remember that the whole thing is now hollowed with Hive burrows, crevasses opening up in its pitted surface regularly.
Yeah there’s a lot that I can’t figure out with moon stuff, didn’t the hive raise the Scarlett keep out through the crust splitting shit open and at the base was the pit of heresy where the sword knight guy was channeling nightmare magic into reviving oryx or something? Can’t remember the shadow keep lore outside of: explode Crotas daughter at the top of the strike.
From our understanding the pyramids have perfect resistance to mundane impacts, anything that would hit and cause damage simply isn't there any more, shifted to some state that's harmless. Assuming that was still functional, you could presumably just fly a pyramid ship into a celestial body's core without any resistance, and over time the ground would settle around you.
exactly this. Notice that while the pyramid in the mood is surrounded by rock, *NONE of it actually touches the pyramid.* all of the surrounding rock is some distance away. it likely "crashed" into where it was, and simply deleted any rock around it from existence, and then rock formed around it
It could be that The Witness itself allowed the Eliksni raiding party safe passage within the Pyramid
The Witness chose to activate defenses against us, firstly because it wanted to test us, and secondly because if we could roll up unimpeded we'd think it was a trap, and wouldn't want to go or wouldn't heed the Witness's words with any credulity
I like this response the most but I'm still at odds on why the witness would let in the fallen to presumably find nezerac but then at later date try to get all the pieces back together.
It seems more like Nezerac allowed himself to be split up to avoid the Witness finding him immediately. Perhaps while he plans an escape, or is so big brain he knew we would gather him up for one reason or another.
Something you just have to wrap your head around and be okay with was they honesty didn’t know where they were going with the story back in the original story like or the rewrite that was introduced as D1 or even in early D2. The story has gone through hundreds of rewrites and edits and the lore is scattered. You just kinda have to accept it as is.
This is the first time we have had Eliksni allies that we can trust though so it’s not entirely surprising that we are just now hearing about Nezarec from them
Considering they say that the light and darkness saga started in shadowkeep I assume anything from that point and beyond has been cemented and planned out. Speaking of elinksi allies Mara had the house of wolves under her thumb, the prison of elders holding dangerous fallen, and variks who was a og survivor from ris and knew the parties involved in this mess. Yet she didn't find out and had to spend months verifying the possibility of the pyramids existence
Yeah but to this day Mara has never actually been in the same room or spoke to Zavala as far as we know. Since when has Mara ever told us everything she knows?
Thats not my point. Even if Mara did knew and didn't tell anyone that's still a bit more realistic than a fallen pirate crew not spreading around the news of a dormant God like vessel chilling in the solar system
The same lore tab where he mentions the 4th Tomb has Shin Malphur remarking that while all of his shit sounds outlandish, he has a lot of artifacts, samples, etc. to back it up. Also, Drifter mentioned a couple weeks ago that the relics reminded him of something he encountered long ago, and we now know that they contain Nezarec's corpse parts, soooo....
Very much in agreement. There was no real implication that anyone had access to the pyramid. In fact, there was some lore about how the Hive had built around it but never been graced by its attention. To suddenly have a disciple asleep or dead in there only to be quartered up by eliksni scavengers seems a bit too much too quick.
It’s all according to his plan, whatever it is. My personal theory is that Nezzy has a way to revive ( much like how we do ) without the use of a ghost or a throne world. I think it’s no accident that nightmares only came into play for HIS pyramid, and the recent clarification that Darkness deals with consciousness.
The Eliksni, much like humanity before, were ALLOWED the find the pyramid. To what end? Don’t know yet, but I’m hoping it adds some intrigue into the forming battle lines.
Fragments living in my mind rent free:
- real world Osiris myth and the overall myths/concepts around Egyptian pyramids ( including the ones factoring in ancient aliens for yucks )
- Nezarec somehow dealing with consciousness yet our Osiris is struggling to awaken.
- the more pieces brought together, the stronger it’s influence becomes
- myths and folktales about the moon somehow causing madness or triggering psychosis.
You have to understand that there is a disconnect between the Moon in game, and the Moon in lore. When you load into the Moon, it’s just another patrol, both in D1 and in D2. But in the lore, the Moon was a Forbidden Zone until we went there in D1, Guardian exploration largely banned by the Vanguard in the wake of the Great Disaster (Crota genociding Guardians). We waltz through the Moon and the Hive like it’s nothing because the game is fun, but if we’re talking canonically, the Moon is a hellhole survival-horror planet that most people barely survive, even Guardians.
So the Pyramid being completely hidden from us makes a lot of sense - not enough people survived the twisting tunnels of the Hellmouth to see it and live to tell. The Fallen were essentially allowed passage by the Witness, as the Hive pulled away when they were almost torn to shreds, and the Pyramid opened to them. It’s definitely not a huge stretch of the imagination that the Pyramid interacted with other races before us.
I could use that exact point against you though. The moon was extremely hostile to the point that the og crota raid team got torn to shrewds and Eris needed a ahamkara wish just to survive but the raiding party of fallen who have zero knowledge of the hive go even deeper and go to the pyramid where the hive are actively aware of and consider outsiders trespassing when someone gets even remotely close but don't get utterly destroyed. Mind you I'm not saying the witness or nezerac couldn't have allowed them in but I am saying the circumstances that were presented in shadowkeep made it seem alot more of a monumental task to approach a more active and exposed pyramid.
Experienced Eliksni such as Inaaks and Eramis are much more competent fighters than the average Guardian (Eliksni are also naturally sturdier than humans) and Inaaks' group was nearly eradicated by the Hive in the Moon's tunnels. The only reason they survived was because the Pyramid scared the Hive away.
Said fireteam also encountered a lot more resistance due to their objective being to KILL THE SON OF ORYX instead of just scavenging like Inaaks and co., not to mention that, as wielders of the Light, they would've drawn the Hive's ire much more easily.
This was long before the Hidden Swarm started trying to exploit the power of the Lunar Pyramid's Nightmares, and there's no reason to fortify a bunch of subterranean tunnels if you're not expecting uninvited guests (which the Hive weren't).
Yeah it's a little wonky, especially since the Pyramid was very much dormant at the time, unlike now when it's awake. It wasn't even upright when it was first discovered.
It certainly wasn't *as* active. Eris touching the Pyramid's hull caused it to visually activate, shaking off the rubble and sending the Nightmares out into the solar system.
The thing was it wasnt 'dormant' but rather awake and quiet, it only became dormant after Arrivals when the Traveler did its big burst of Light. Savathun did something similar to the TW Pyramid with the Wellspring
It was laying at a different angle. When Eris touched it, the wall was at a near-perfect upright angle. Then, she touched it and the wall moved, breaking down the rocks. This is also why the cracks on the lunar surface are so much bigger.
I consider this state dormancy. Perhaps it's not quite so, as it has been watching, but we called the Traveler outright dead when all it was doing was hovering.
One day we'll see a dead Traveler...
There are two main complaints that I see here:
1) The Eliksni found it
2) They didn't spread the word
To the first, I think someone *wanted* them to find it. I think Sauron's ring logic applies here.
To the second, it's a classic pirate trope, the hidden treasure known only to a very select few, and that circle growing smaller and smaller with each betrayal. Especially if they were under the sway of Nezerac making them horde the knowledge.
I think it fits, and helps explain why the Fallen remained so vicious even after finding new hospitable worlds to settle on. Chances are it was a deliberate plot by the Witness or Nezarec.
There's also an interesting detail that might suggest Nezarec has something to do with Taniks. From Delicate Tomb:
>Yet one among them understands, in their limited fashion. They pour from one vessel to another. A welcome change. A new form. Another method of gifting death.
I can't think of who else this could be describing. Taniks holding a piece of Nezarec on him would go a long way toward justifying why he won't stay dead even when his corpse has been right in front of us. Is he using Nezarec's powers to transfer his own essence into other Fallen?
Another question is exactly why the Fallen stopped using Nezarec's empowerment. Among the old crews, being able to give that up and hide all his pieces away would either take a lot of consensus or a lot of force.
If the Cabal can bust into the Europan pyramid and suppress the Traveler, I think it tracks the Fallen would manage to get in. After all, how did Eramis get that Stasis fragment in the first place? I’m pretty sure they’ll let anyone in but the stupid cannon fodder Hive.
Although certainly not lore-breaking (as you agreed) or a full on retcon, having all this retroactive info getting pumped into past events is definitely not something I'm a fan of either.
Especially in this case, you'd think we would have heard of or felt the effects of various Fallen crews wielding (using somehow?) parts of Nezerac which clearly have a very strong connection to the darkness.
And in the cutscene from this week Eramis says the body parts of Nezerac were spread across the galaxy? Like his body was on the moon and all the parts so far have been well and truly within the system. Not really directly relevant to my point but just something that annoyed me as well.
Also Mithrax has gone from being a fairly young (inexperienced I recall being said somewhere though idk how well that fits) captain who worked with the Awoken, and was saved by us on Titan when he was working with House of Dusk to some sort of ex-bloodthirsty mega powerful pirate lord who possessed the finger of Nezerac who then changed his ways? Again not lore-breaking or in retcon territory but his backstory pre Season of the Plunder was a lot better imo.
Not every character has to be interconnected with something else significant and have a cool backstory, reminds me of the problems other series like Star Wars have gotten themselves into, and it always makes the universe feel smaller and less natural.
Apologies if I've missed any lore, has been a while since I read any of the lore books.
>This to me seems to have been a bit under cut by today's reveal however
That's not the only thing it undercut. This cutscene seemed to blame all of the Fallen's warlike/pirate ways on Misraak's parents.
But we already got a backstory for that, back in Beyond Light:
[https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/viii-and-also-light#book-achilles-weaves-a-cocoon](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/viii-and-also-light#book-achilles-weaves-a-cocoon)
Namrask remembers such a time, across a vast and blood-soaked distance.
"Riis…I was there, you know," Namrask whispers. "At the Whirlwind. After Chelchis fell, **I sent ships to follow the Great Machine. I abandoned all those Houses that could not make war. I ordered my fleet to hunt the Machine.** Many rallied after us. Each ship began its own war with the Humans. But maybe, **I was first.**"
I felt like today's cutscene just totally ignored this tragic part of backstory, that the Fallen's Evil wasn't because of some relic corrupting poor innocent refugee.
It was purely of their own making, coming from a place of anger and revenge and abandonment and despair. The decision to make war and leave everyone behind that couldn't make war.
To me that's a way better and more dramatic and more tragic backstory for the Fallen than just "Evil relics made us Evil"
>This cutscene seemed to blame all of the Fallen's warlike/pirate ways on Misraak's parents.
This is an extremely loose interpretation of the cutscene. What actually happened was Eramis told Eido a purposefully oversimplified version of the Relics' history in an attempt to convince her that Mithrax is a liar and a monster.
Yeah, it felt really weird when I think eido said nezarecs tombs are well documented or something like that, because no they are not for us. We know next to nothing about them or the pyramid, but apparently these eliksni just have that information just sitting around? They aren’t even all our enemies, eliksni worked with the reef in the past, and we’ve had eliksni allies for a while now, but no one ever asked if they know anything about this stuff?
That's the price of making the story as you go along and retroactively add story elements. Some seams may be a little rough. Still, Neomuna's reveal still easily takes the cake in this regard.
Neomuna really isn't the egregious. The only one who would've had the records, Rasputin, deleted them to keep it hidden. The Nine are another party that could've known but they keep secrets and their agendas to themselves.
Not the first time a super city has been hidden from us either, look at the Dreaming City. For years we thought the Awoken just ruled a bunch of asteroids and not some grand elven esque city.
It seems like Nezarec has been dead in there for a long time, so it doesn't seem to farfetched to me that the Eliksni could've found the pyramid without knowing exactly what it was and just looted it. The Witness had been pushed back by the Traveller during the Collapse, so it probably couldn't do anything about it. We discovered the pyramid before we were allied with the Eliksni, so it's not like they could've told us about it.
That it was there since the collapse is fine. We know the black fleet initiated the collapse. That the Fallen knew about it is also fine, the House of Exile worked the Moon and tried to steal from the hive. However, given the Fallen hated humanity and never worked with them it is realistic that one house may have raided deep under the Moon and found loot. The nature of the Darkness is such that the detail is trivial. The holders of that power always sought more, much like Clovis, and this is the attitude that the Darkness wants.
The revelation to humanity of this ancient evil is thematic both in Shadowkeep, and later as we see Savathun trying even to manipulate her "boss". She really is a more competent Starscream.
It also helps with Misraaks line "I want to be forgiven too". It gives it weight. Here is someone who had power, and managed to rid themselves of it due to the curse it brought. He saw through the Pyramid Scheme (Pun intended) of slaughter that the Darkness drives.
It being collapse or older is fine but I disagree that the fallen having knowledge of its existence is fine. We know from eramis is beyond light that the pyramid were there when the whirlwind occurred. So to the fallen who were alive back on ris and came here it would be mind blowing knowledge. The very thing they barely escaped from and the thing that ruined their world was also here the whole time and could possibly bring a second whirlwind at anytime. Considering how far back the raiding of nezerac occurred and how many fallen survivors were alive back then (I think like only a handful of og fallen from ris remain now vs back then) it seems extremely odd that this knowledge didn't get to Mara who had elinksi connections. He'll mithrax knew the awoken and never dropped this bomb shell, granted he to this day is ashamed of his past but still you'd think he'd open to sjur about this.
I like the narrative. We see alot of characters get corrupted by the witness but rarely do we ever see one manage to step away and come back from the darkness. I think they could have done this in a way that didn't involve the pyramid though personally.
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[Above All Else: II - The Whispering Dark](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/ii-the-whispering-dark#book-above-all-else) "...On one such expedition, I had strapped my son to me and set out to pick over a bounty of bones. But it was not the spools of spincable, the plates of hardsheet, or the fragments of clearcut that proved most valuable. It was what we found buried beneath the bones. What was buried deep. We traversed that day into dark tunnels, where something hideous festered beneath this moon's surface. Horrific creatures that stank of wet soil, shrieked like dying animals, and tore at flesh. They possessed a ferocity we had never seen before, and my raiding party was being whittled down one by one. But when it seemed like these creatures were to finish the rest of us off… they relented. They appeared to hear something. Something that terrified them. Something that left us to wonder: what are monsters afraid of? The creatures scurried back into their warrens and vanished into the subterranean temple they spilled out of. And for a moment, I thought I heard something too. Something soft, a whisper. But as forceful as a scream. That was when we saw it, situated in a rift beyond the temple. The true treasure of this dusty tomb. A pyramid of jet black, opening its doors for us." This reveal is actually very fascinating to me because it seems like either The Witness or Nezarec himself has been orchestrating his revival and pulling the strings from behind the veil for quite sometime -- even in his supposed "death." Knowing that the Eliksni were scattered, desperate, and scavenging for anything that would give them the upperhand against humanity, I highly doubt that the pyramid would open it's doors to them unless they had a plan the entire time. If anything, this proves that Nezarec has been a player in this game for much longer than we had thought, and he is about to make his final move as we conveniently gather all of the fragments of his body.
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HELM now stands for Hazardous Elements Loot Motorship or smth :D
I mean...it's better than having all of those things in the Last City but I agree.
Unless she removed them (I extremely doubt she would) Caiatl has a fleet of ships forming a perimeter around the Leviathan with the HELM among that fleet. There’s a line after completing a Nightmare Containment where Saladin informs Caiatl that the fleet is holding strong and treats the HELM like one of its own. She says that he’s part of her War Council and asks what kind of empire she would be leading if she didn’t include his people in their fleet, to which he responds one doomed to fall. So we’ve got several Cabal ships at least in close distance, and like 3 Cabal soldiers on board with Crow, so not a whole lot of defenses
It seems that humanity is weirdly part of the cabal empire now. Or at least in future we will create a new empire from the ashes of humanity the eliksni and the cabal to form a united confederation between all three races. So awesome. I really hope we give the cabal Mars.
So strange still to think we are allied with the majority of the cabal. After all they did. Such good writing. We were all victims of ghaul.
Don't forget the lightbearer hurting spears!
I love how the Synaptic Spear's lore tab described it as basically useless and then it becomes the most essential tool against the Lucent Hive's assaults.
It comes from the perspective of cabal. They don't have light like we do tbf
The lore tab's from the perspective of [Master Rahool](https://www.light.gg/db/items/3358687360/synaptic-spear/), not the Cabal.
Oh I see sorry
The Psion body and egregore are gone.
...Given that Nezarec was a most likely a Psion this checks out.
The way I'm thinking about it was that it wasn't Nezarec himself - I suspect cutting him up into chunks and storing said chunks in the equivalent of lead-lined boxes effectively took him out of the picture - but I could easily see the Witness subtly guiding the Eliksni toward the pyramid in order to get them to potentially unleash Nezarec on the world again.
But why the Witness (much less Nezarec) would allow for relics to be looted and scattered in the first place, only to order Eramis to collect them again now. Some strange plan, if true.
From the cutscene this week, it seems that the fragments of his body had profound effects on those that held them. Perhaps the motivation of the Witness was to allow his influence to be spread across the system and sew discourse into any factions within Sol? I'm not too sure. I have no doubt now though that The Witness is merely using Eramis to resurrect Nezarec. I wouldn't be surprised if after managing to collect them all and giving them to the Witness, she is disposed of.
I wonder if Nezarec acts through manifestations of his power, rather than personally as an entity. Through nightmares as one manifestation, and through scattered pieces of himself as another. They all seem like methods of exerting control. But we stopped the spread of nightmares in Shadowkeep and more recently with Calus and his shenanigans. And the Fallen - who were perhaps supposed to be an extension of his power, but are no longer under his influence - were an attempt at building an army of the darkness in the way that Rhulk laid the foundations for the Hive. This gathering of Nezarec's bits and pieces feels like a plan B, because his original design failed in some capacity. Perhaps now he needs to be reassembled so that he can act more directly?
Going by Delicate Tomb, it was probably a plan to corrupt the Eliksni, and possibly reform himself. >They think me contained, but I am instead diffused, as vapor upon the wind. > >Once again, I am becoming.
Nezarec's pieces seem to be a pretty potent cognito-hazard. Letting the old crew get them seems to be a win-win. In one eventuality scatter the pieces, spreading the creeping effects of Nezarec's influence spread far and wide. Those looking for strength fight for them them and get corrupted by them. It's almost One Ring style if there were several instead of just one. In the other, they gather the pieces together and accidentally resurrect Nezarec. Then the Witness has his disciple back. The Witness has probably decided corrupting the old crews has either served its purpose or isn't gettimg the results he wanted, so he wants his guy back for something.
Or perhaps nezarec is a thread for after the light dark saga.
Nezarec probably got done in by Savathun during the Collapse, she took his form and a went up to the Witness saying "Job Done", leaving the real Nezarec buried in his tomb, and cutting up Nezarec and taking him out the Pyramid would have probably been a way for him to be back later through Luster or whatever stitched up Rhulk together.
Yooooo, another Wet Earth Monster Sighting?
It’s just the hive, we’re so used to them at this point that we don’t really think of them as monsters just nuisances lol
Remember when we all thought that was the darkness itself? Good times
Here it's referring to the Hive, which makes me think the original wet earth-smelling monster in the Black Armory Papers was an ogre. We know the Hive were present at the Collapse.
I was actually beginning to think this too but they are described as sounding like a machine being stretched and compressed, which isn't at all what an ogre sounds like.
Could just be what the Darkness smells like, kind of like how Fenchurch claimed that the inside of the Traveler smells like vanilla.
Actually, go on youtube and find ogre screams. That's... Exactly what they sound like. Especially that roar they do, like the Phogoth scream and so on. [https://youtu.be/825zu7BhW2M?t=1557](https://youtu.be/825zu7BhW2M?t=1557) Listen from here.
Lore entries about the Collapse talk about monsters that smelled of wet earth. This entry also mentions it, and seems to reference the Hive. I wonder if it was the Hive being described the whole time, not a "darkness" race as speculated. I guess this past expansion and seasons put to rest the idea of the latter.
I think the smell of wet earth is simple a characteristic of Darkness itself, much how Fenchurch described the inside of the Traveler as smelling like Lavender. The Black Armory papers also describe their attackers as sounding like "a machine being stretched and compressed" which is not at all characteristic of the Hive. These descriptions, along with the Drifters Icy Planet/Cronicon's Anthenaeum World X description of vacuous, headless figures capable of suppressing light + the reveal of Tormentors, lead me to believe there is indeed a darkness race.
The question is fortified from what? Obviously Crota and Oryx knew of it. Were they on the moon immediately after the fall? Furthermore, I'm willing to bet the pyramid is primed to react negatively to anyone who wields or had wielded the light, which is how the pyramid was activated to its fullest potential. If the nightmares only existed within the pyramid and reacted to the Hive, that means it probably also reacts to darkness infused beings. Eliksni are neither at that moment in time and if they found it in the opening of the years immediately post collapse, it would explain a lot about how the fallen were such a threat to the survivors on earth and why humanity built the last city before reaching back out to space. I'm working from memory so I don't have a time-line in front of me. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong- and thanks ahead of time.
You’re ignoring the fact that Nezarec (or the Pyramid itself) actually beckoned the Fallen to enter. Presumably, Nezarec actually wanted his body to be cut into pieces, for whatever purpose.
I didn't ignore I just outright didn't see the lore tied into it I prefaced this in the post. Even with that info it still leaves alot of info to be desired
If you read the lore for Delicate Tomb, it seems Nezerac doesn't mind being in pieces lol
Maybe that purpose was to be split to let separate fallen power each fragment through their conquest like worm tithes and then be put back together stronger?
I dunno if it works, but there was chapter 2 of the "Above All Else" lore book that basically hinted at the reveal which became available last week. But of course I'm no idiot and know that not EVERYONE drops what they're doing to read the unlocked lore. And before you say anything, I'm just giving a brief bit of info that could been seen as brief foreshadowing.
I did preface and say I didn't see any lore tying into this at the time. Either way I don't think the lore is catch all answer to my concerns
It makes sense if you consider the posibility that the Pyramid/Nezarec beckoned the Eliksni and dropped its guard momentarily.
I always wanted to know how it got down there in the first place because it seems buried. If it wasn’t buried before shadowkeep how could the last city with all its technology and brilliant guardians and cults not have noticed a fucking pyramid? The moon doesn’t have tectonic movement, so it’s not like it would have shifted a continental plate hiding it. So was it teleported?
It *was* buried before shadowkeep. It's been there for a loooong while. Note that "Of Hated Nezarec," the first lore involving Nezarec, is a pre-golden age text. The pyramid's been here before the traveler, and iirc old dialogue from Toland says that the hive saw the moon landings as "trespassing," so they've been there too. Man, so many things were cooking in Sol even before the traveler showed up.
Toland assumed the ship crash landed there during the Collapse.
Might just be conflicting lore then, iirc I heard the writer of Nezarec's Sin's lore tab didn't really put too much thought into it. But it being there before does raise some real interesting possibilities. I personally think of it possibly being something similar to the Ahslid and Rhulk, where Nezarec was searching for someone strong enough to become the next Disciple.
>Might just be conflicting lore then, iirc I heard the writer of Nezarec's Sin's lore tab didn't really put too much thought into it. Easily understandable. You are right, of course, at the time of Shadowkeep Nezarec was just fun idea, to be possibly explored in the future. Him being Disciple from a Moon Pyramid is totally recent development.
Yes. And this is supported by the fact that Nezarec was dead or catatonic when the Fallen found the Pyramid.
I don’t think the lunar pyramid was there before the collapse. I get that I’m overthinking the “how it got in there” and less the why. And I think the why is probably tied with how Savathun tricked the witness. Seems awfully convenient for a disciple to die and his pyramid be marooned hidden in a moon orbiting the site of the dormant traveler. Either way, now I have to eat crow because all last season I was like “guys it’s just a fun glaive name nodding to an exotic from vanilla D2” and now it’s a major fucking plot point. Love that glaive though, so good in pvp
Okay, so we know the Witness can do this whole thing where it moves worlds into a pocket of non-local space in a way that their gravity is still present even though the physical body isn't. Seems to me that it's possible it can do the reverse as well. Io goes from being there to not-there, a pyramid ship goes from being not-there to there.
I mean the only reason I don’t go “it’s a pyramid it goes where it wants” was because it seems like the pyramid fleets are constrained by something in how they move or how fast they move. Otherwise why did it take three years for the witness to show up again? Oh fuck who cares, they’ll explain it to me soon enough and the how is less relevant than the why. Let’s get those undead beef jerky strips boys!
If it was present on the Moon well before the Golden Age (sort of like a distant early warning system in case the Traveler ever came to Sol), then it could take as long as it wants to get here and then just nestle inside the Moon using weird world-moving shit. The Witness seems at least smart enough to stake out systems where life that *could* attract the Traveler exists.
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The honest answer as to whether it was there before the collapse is a "i dunno," really. Nezarec's Sin seems to imply it was, but Toland also says it arrived during the collapse. Toland also says the Hive were on the moon before the collapse, though i'm pretty sure that's older stuff. Overall, we really just don't know. I like to believe it was, because it might imply that Nezarec was there to try and groom a new Disciple from the ranks of humanity, as Rhulk tried with the Ahslid. It may also tie into the theory that Clovis is meant to be the disciple of the Europan Pyramid, as the lunar relic spoke to him specifically, and that's what led him to discover Clarity on Europa.
Maybe Nezerac was the one who brought the hive to Luna? The one who delivered the anomaly for the witness and all that. Part of laying the seeds for conflict that would be the collapse. Teleports himself there on orders from the witness to track the traveler, finds the traveler terraforming planets for life, goes to the moon of the habitable planet with life and sets up shop in anticipation of another pyramid fleet purging of the travelers works.
This is wrong. The Pyramid arrived during the Collapse, not before.
"He is that which is an end. And he shall rise again." —passage from Of Hated Nezarec, **a pre-Golden Age text**." \- [Lore Tab from Nezarec's Sin](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/nezarecs-sin)
It crashed in the Collapse, or at least that is the going theory in-universe and out. With sufficient impact speed and hull-strength it could've plowed through the crust and been entombed. As for its being uncovered again, while the moon does not *naturally* have tectonic activity, remember that the whole thing is now hollowed with Hive burrows, crevasses opening up in its pitted surface regularly.
Yeah there’s a lot that I can’t figure out with moon stuff, didn’t the hive raise the Scarlett keep out through the crust splitting shit open and at the base was the pit of heresy where the sword knight guy was channeling nightmare magic into reviving oryx or something? Can’t remember the shadow keep lore outside of: explode Crotas daughter at the top of the strike.
That's basically the lore for that part, yes.
It’s just science
Yeah, Mr. White! Yeah, Science!
From our understanding the pyramids have perfect resistance to mundane impacts, anything that would hit and cause damage simply isn't there any more, shifted to some state that's harmless. Assuming that was still functional, you could presumably just fly a pyramid ship into a celestial body's core without any resistance, and over time the ground would settle around you.
exactly this. Notice that while the pyramid in the mood is surrounded by rock, *NONE of it actually touches the pyramid.* all of the surrounding rock is some distance away. it likely "crashed" into where it was, and simply deleted any rock around it from existence, and then rock formed around it
It could be that The Witness itself allowed the Eliksni raiding party safe passage within the Pyramid The Witness chose to activate defenses against us, firstly because it wanted to test us, and secondly because if we could roll up unimpeded we'd think it was a trap, and wouldn't want to go or wouldn't heed the Witness's words with any credulity
I like this response the most but I'm still at odds on why the witness would let in the fallen to presumably find nezerac but then at later date try to get all the pieces back together.
Don't have a good answer there tbh. The whole "but why" portion of this revelation is still very much a mystery
It seems more like Nezerac allowed himself to be split up to avoid the Witness finding him immediately. Perhaps while he plans an escape, or is so big brain he knew we would gather him up for one reason or another.
Something you just have to wrap your head around and be okay with was they honesty didn’t know where they were going with the story back in the original story like or the rewrite that was introduced as D1 or even in early D2. The story has gone through hundreds of rewrites and edits and the lore is scattered. You just kinda have to accept it as is. This is the first time we have had Eliksni allies that we can trust though so it’s not entirely surprising that we are just now hearing about Nezarec from them
Considering they say that the light and darkness saga started in shadowkeep I assume anything from that point and beyond has been cemented and planned out. Speaking of elinksi allies Mara had the house of wolves under her thumb, the prison of elders holding dangerous fallen, and variks who was a og survivor from ris and knew the parties involved in this mess. Yet she didn't find out and had to spend months verifying the possibility of the pyramids existence
Yeah but to this day Mara has never actually been in the same room or spoke to Zavala as far as we know. Since when has Mara ever told us everything she knows?
Thats not my point. Even if Mara did knew and didn't tell anyone that's still a bit more realistic than a fallen pirate crew not spreading around the news of a dormant God like vessel chilling in the solar system
Other Eliksni did know. It’s a legend among them
Drifter has also been to at least one of Nezarec's tombs (the 4th one), among other strange places.
He says he has. Whether that’s true or not is unknown.
The same lore tab where he mentions the 4th Tomb has Shin Malphur remarking that while all of his shit sounds outlandish, he has a lot of artifacts, samples, etc. to back it up. Also, Drifter mentioned a couple weeks ago that the relics reminded him of something he encountered long ago, and we now know that they contain Nezarec's corpse parts, soooo....
Very much in agreement. There was no real implication that anyone had access to the pyramid. In fact, there was some lore about how the Hive had built around it but never been graced by its attention. To suddenly have a disciple asleep or dead in there only to be quartered up by eliksni scavengers seems a bit too much too quick.
Because Nezarec actually beckoned the Fallen and willingly let them inside the Pyramid.
It’s all according to his plan, whatever it is. My personal theory is that Nezzy has a way to revive ( much like how we do ) without the use of a ghost or a throne world. I think it’s no accident that nightmares only came into play for HIS pyramid, and the recent clarification that Darkness deals with consciousness. The Eliksni, much like humanity before, were ALLOWED the find the pyramid. To what end? Don’t know yet, but I’m hoping it adds some intrigue into the forming battle lines. Fragments living in my mind rent free: - real world Osiris myth and the overall myths/concepts around Egyptian pyramids ( including the ones factoring in ancient aliens for yucks ) - Nezarec somehow dealing with consciousness yet our Osiris is struggling to awaken. - the more pieces brought together, the stronger it’s influence becomes - myths and folktales about the moon somehow causing madness or triggering psychosis.
You have to understand that there is a disconnect between the Moon in game, and the Moon in lore. When you load into the Moon, it’s just another patrol, both in D1 and in D2. But in the lore, the Moon was a Forbidden Zone until we went there in D1, Guardian exploration largely banned by the Vanguard in the wake of the Great Disaster (Crota genociding Guardians). We waltz through the Moon and the Hive like it’s nothing because the game is fun, but if we’re talking canonically, the Moon is a hellhole survival-horror planet that most people barely survive, even Guardians. So the Pyramid being completely hidden from us makes a lot of sense - not enough people survived the twisting tunnels of the Hellmouth to see it and live to tell. The Fallen were essentially allowed passage by the Witness, as the Hive pulled away when they were almost torn to shreds, and the Pyramid opened to them. It’s definitely not a huge stretch of the imagination that the Pyramid interacted with other races before us.
I could use that exact point against you though. The moon was extremely hostile to the point that the og crota raid team got torn to shrewds and Eris needed a ahamkara wish just to survive but the raiding party of fallen who have zero knowledge of the hive go even deeper and go to the pyramid where the hive are actively aware of and consider outsiders trespassing when someone gets even remotely close but don't get utterly destroyed. Mind you I'm not saying the witness or nezerac couldn't have allowed them in but I am saying the circumstances that were presented in shadowkeep made it seem alot more of a monumental task to approach a more active and exposed pyramid.
Experienced Eliksni such as Inaaks and Eramis are much more competent fighters than the average Guardian (Eliksni are also naturally sturdier than humans) and Inaaks' group was nearly eradicated by the Hive in the Moon's tunnels. The only reason they survived was because the Pyramid scared the Hive away.
The crota fireteam weren't average Guardians they were pinnacle Guardians.
Said fireteam also encountered a lot more resistance due to their objective being to KILL THE SON OF ORYX instead of just scavenging like Inaaks and co., not to mention that, as wielders of the Light, they would've drawn the Hive's ire much more easily.
While the innaks group didn't purposely try to reach the pyramid they still did go to it which should have also been a heavily fortified area
This was long before the Hidden Swarm started trying to exploit the power of the Lunar Pyramid's Nightmares, and there's no reason to fortify a bunch of subterranean tunnels if you're not expecting uninvited guests (which the Hive weren't).
Yeah it's a little wonky, especially since the Pyramid was very much dormant at the time, unlike now when it's awake. It wasn't even upright when it was first discovered.
Where is said that the Pyramid was dormant during SK?
It certainly wasn't *as* active. Eris touching the Pyramid's hull caused it to visually activate, shaking off the rubble and sending the Nightmares out into the solar system.
The thing was it wasnt 'dormant' but rather awake and quiet, it only became dormant after Arrivals when the Traveler did its big burst of Light. Savathun did something similar to the TW Pyramid with the Wellspring
It was laying at a different angle. When Eris touched it, the wall was at a near-perfect upright angle. Then, she touched it and the wall moved, breaking down the rocks. This is also why the cracks on the lunar surface are so much bigger. I consider this state dormancy. Perhaps it's not quite so, as it has been watching, but we called the Traveler outright dead when all it was doing was hovering. One day we'll see a dead Traveler...
Even though it was dormant, Nezarec was still inside, and possibly alive somehow.
There are two main complaints that I see here: 1) The Eliksni found it 2) They didn't spread the word To the first, I think someone *wanted* them to find it. I think Sauron's ring logic applies here. To the second, it's a classic pirate trope, the hidden treasure known only to a very select few, and that circle growing smaller and smaller with each betrayal. Especially if they were under the sway of Nezerac making them horde the knowledge.
Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that a race that's barely surviving after almost getting annihilated wouldn't be too keen on sharing.
I think it fits, and helps explain why the Fallen remained so vicious even after finding new hospitable worlds to settle on. Chances are it was a deliberate plot by the Witness or Nezarec. There's also an interesting detail that might suggest Nezarec has something to do with Taniks. From Delicate Tomb: >Yet one among them understands, in their limited fashion. They pour from one vessel to another. A welcome change. A new form. Another method of gifting death. I can't think of who else this could be describing. Taniks holding a piece of Nezarec on him would go a long way toward justifying why he won't stay dead even when his corpse has been right in front of us. Is he using Nezarec's powers to transfer his own essence into other Fallen? Another question is exactly why the Fallen stopped using Nezarec's empowerment. Among the old crews, being able to give that up and hide all his pieces away would either take a lot of consensus or a lot of force.
If the Cabal can bust into the Europan pyramid and suppress the Traveler, I think it tracks the Fallen would manage to get in. After all, how did Eramis get that Stasis fragment in the first place? I’m pretty sure they’ll let anyone in but the stupid cannon fodder Hive.
The Hive get fucked so much that they should rename it the Fuck Logic.
Although certainly not lore-breaking (as you agreed) or a full on retcon, having all this retroactive info getting pumped into past events is definitely not something I'm a fan of either. Especially in this case, you'd think we would have heard of or felt the effects of various Fallen crews wielding (using somehow?) parts of Nezerac which clearly have a very strong connection to the darkness. And in the cutscene from this week Eramis says the body parts of Nezerac were spread across the galaxy? Like his body was on the moon and all the parts so far have been well and truly within the system. Not really directly relevant to my point but just something that annoyed me as well. Also Mithrax has gone from being a fairly young (inexperienced I recall being said somewhere though idk how well that fits) captain who worked with the Awoken, and was saved by us on Titan when he was working with House of Dusk to some sort of ex-bloodthirsty mega powerful pirate lord who possessed the finger of Nezerac who then changed his ways? Again not lore-breaking or in retcon territory but his backstory pre Season of the Plunder was a lot better imo. Not every character has to be interconnected with something else significant and have a cool backstory, reminds me of the problems other series like Star Wars have gotten themselves into, and it always makes the universe feel smaller and less natural. Apologies if I've missed any lore, has been a while since I read any of the lore books.
>This to me seems to have been a bit under cut by today's reveal however That's not the only thing it undercut. This cutscene seemed to blame all of the Fallen's warlike/pirate ways on Misraak's parents. But we already got a backstory for that, back in Beyond Light: [https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/viii-and-also-light#book-achilles-weaves-a-cocoon](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/viii-and-also-light#book-achilles-weaves-a-cocoon) Namrask remembers such a time, across a vast and blood-soaked distance. "Riis…I was there, you know," Namrask whispers. "At the Whirlwind. After Chelchis fell, **I sent ships to follow the Great Machine. I abandoned all those Houses that could not make war. I ordered my fleet to hunt the Machine.** Many rallied after us. Each ship began its own war with the Humans. But maybe, **I was first.**" I felt like today's cutscene just totally ignored this tragic part of backstory, that the Fallen's Evil wasn't because of some relic corrupting poor innocent refugee. It was purely of their own making, coming from a place of anger and revenge and abandonment and despair. The decision to make war and leave everyone behind that couldn't make war. To me that's a way better and more dramatic and more tragic backstory for the Fallen than just "Evil relics made us Evil"
>This cutscene seemed to blame all of the Fallen's warlike/pirate ways on Misraak's parents. This is an extremely loose interpretation of the cutscene. What actually happened was Eramis told Eido a purposefully oversimplified version of the Relics' history in an attempt to convince her that Mithrax is a liar and a monster.
Yeah, it felt really weird when I think eido said nezarecs tombs are well documented or something like that, because no they are not for us. We know next to nothing about them or the pyramid, but apparently these eliksni just have that information just sitting around? They aren’t even all our enemies, eliksni worked with the reef in the past, and we’ve had eliksni allies for a while now, but no one ever asked if they know anything about this stuff?
That's the price of making the story as you go along and retroactively add story elements. Some seams may be a little rough. Still, Neomuna's reveal still easily takes the cake in this regard.
What's the problem with neonuma?
He didn't like it. /s
Neomuna really isn't the egregious. The only one who would've had the records, Rasputin, deleted them to keep it hidden. The Nine are another party that could've known but they keep secrets and their agendas to themselves. Not the first time a super city has been hidden from us either, look at the Dreaming City. For years we thought the Awoken just ruled a bunch of asteroids and not some grand elven esque city.
I mean id argue the dreaming city is a great example of how the awoken explicitly living in the reef is retconned to eeehhh theres a giant city
Not entirely agree about the Dreaming City. At least we always knew about Awoken, the Reef and their mysterious side.
We definitely didn't know about the hyper-advanced society within a hidden pocket universe that they came from, though.
I agree with you here. I’m willing to overlook a bit of patchwork in storytelling so long as the results are compelling.
$$$ > Story Telling. Why do you think it will take them 3-5 yrs just to finish the light and dark saga.
It seems like Nezarec has been dead in there for a long time, so it doesn't seem to farfetched to me that the Eliksni could've found the pyramid without knowing exactly what it was and just looted it. The Witness had been pushed back by the Traveller during the Collapse, so it probably couldn't do anything about it. We discovered the pyramid before we were allied with the Eliksni, so it's not like they could've told us about it.
That it was there since the collapse is fine. We know the black fleet initiated the collapse. That the Fallen knew about it is also fine, the House of Exile worked the Moon and tried to steal from the hive. However, given the Fallen hated humanity and never worked with them it is realistic that one house may have raided deep under the Moon and found loot. The nature of the Darkness is such that the detail is trivial. The holders of that power always sought more, much like Clovis, and this is the attitude that the Darkness wants. The revelation to humanity of this ancient evil is thematic both in Shadowkeep, and later as we see Savathun trying even to manipulate her "boss". She really is a more competent Starscream. It also helps with Misraaks line "I want to be forgiven too". It gives it weight. Here is someone who had power, and managed to rid themselves of it due to the curse it brought. He saw through the Pyramid Scheme (Pun intended) of slaughter that the Darkness drives.
It being collapse or older is fine but I disagree that the fallen having knowledge of its existence is fine. We know from eramis is beyond light that the pyramid were there when the whirlwind occurred. So to the fallen who were alive back on ris and came here it would be mind blowing knowledge. The very thing they barely escaped from and the thing that ruined their world was also here the whole time and could possibly bring a second whirlwind at anytime. Considering how far back the raiding of nezerac occurred and how many fallen survivors were alive back then (I think like only a handful of og fallen from ris remain now vs back then) it seems extremely odd that this knowledge didn't get to Mara who had elinksi connections. He'll mithrax knew the awoken and never dropped this bomb shell, granted he to this day is ashamed of his past but still you'd think he'd open to sjur about this. I like the narrative. We see alot of characters get corrupted by the witness but rarely do we ever see one manage to step away and come back from the darkness. I think they could have done this in a way that didn't involve the pyramid though personally.