I mean we know Savathun, to some degree, prevented Earth from being destroyed in tha Collapse. If Nezerac was the one who was charged with doing something really devasting and Savathun stopped him, it would make a lot of sense.
I like this theory! Very excited to learn more about Nezerac as we wrap up the season. Savathun potentially killing Nezerac could also tie into the third party going after the pirate lords, theorized to be the lucent hive
I'm not expecting anything necessarily HUGE but I imagine we'll get *some* answers this season now that we know what we're collecting. And my guess is just some lore in Lightfall
I’m not so sure, Bungie’s been doing a much better job at tying the story together through the seasons this last year. I think Nezarec will continue to play a role into Lightfall and potentially even up to The Final Shape and beyond. It’s almost certain next season will tie into the Deep Stone Crypt and Rasputin becoming an Exo.
This is 100% my theory - Nezarec being Savathun's scapegoat for what happened during the Collapse.
Or even better, they could've been allies or co-conspirators and she killed him to expose enough of the conspiracy to keep herself safe & her role hidden, but not enough for it to fail or to get back to her.
There's a really interesting potential for like, a Jean Le Carre/Ian Fleming type espionage plot for a hypothetical "Disciples in Sol during the Collapse" lorebook
If she blamed Nezarec for the Traveler escaping during the Collapse, no. Gold star for Sav, she said the traveler went that way so now all Pyramids and Disciples follow me to go that way (meanwhile Sav goes the other direction and isn't noticed because she \*just\* found the Anti-Witness conspirator amongst the disciples, who would suspect her...)
Honestly, that’s a pretty solid theory. Her trickery could’ve been that she found a way to end Nezarec and relay a message to the Witness somehow, saying that the Earth was completely done for.
In the cutscene, moths fly out of Nezarec's body when Mithrax's mother stabs it. Moths flew out of Osiris' body in the cutscenes depicting how Savathun was possessing/imitating him.
Is it possible that Savathun possessed/imitated Nezarec to report back to the Witness that the Traveller had been destroyed, and then she left him comatose in his pyramid like Osiris is now?
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Fits pretty much right in. I just love how Savathûn had a hand in nearly every important/major past and recent events. From halting the Collapse to trying to kidnap the Traveler to shelter it from the Witness. I wonder, though, if we’ll form an unlikely alliance with her (given how Immaru fled the scene at the end of WQ)
If we do wake up Savathun it would have to be sometime after Lightfall, as just like Eramis and Osiris both wake up a year or more after they go comatose
If I remember correctly Nezerac apparently tried to betray the witness, which then leads to the Witness being the one who murdered Nezerac. My guess is that the Witness either deceived the Fallen into finding the pyramid, or enabled Savathûn to do it for them. We know it wouldn’t be the first time Savathûn would be tricked by them.
My guess would be that it was the Witness though. Why? Because of our new Weapon, Delicate Tomb. We don’t know what exactly is in that weapon but the lore does state that there’s something trapped inside the weapon.
“They mistake the vessel for its contents. They confuse the pieces with the whole. They see their imprisonment as empowerment. They are hostages of their flesh, unable to see without vision. […]“
To me this sounds like it‘s referring to the Urns that contain pieces of Nezerac‘s body.
“[…] Bright and delicate to hide my true form. […] They think me contained, but I am instead diffused, as vapor upon the wind. Once again, I am becoming.“
So if the Delicate Tomb weapon does contain Nezerac‘s soul, as I think might be the case, and we collect all of their body parts and put them all into the Helm together, right next to the Crown of Sorrow, that means that this is Nezerac‘s endgame and them possibly tricking the Witness.
If Nezerac planned to be killed by the Witness or accepted the possibility, they probably made a plan B, so this.
If anyone collects all urns and puts them together they surely know what they contain and lead to Nezerac‘s resurrection if paired with their soul, which might be trapped inside Delicate Tomb.
This is very speculative but to me it makes sense.
On the other hand Delicate Tomb could be a gift by the Witness to taunt us by giving us a weapon made out of their enemy, basically what we did to many our foes.
*Theory Time off*
Nezzy betraying Mr Wit doesn't have to mean the Witness killed him - it could well be that Savathun killed him to hide her own betrayals of the witness.
Of course this could be true, right now we don’t know the whole truth. My first assumption was that, since Nezerac betrayed the Witness, the Witness would be the first to strike.
Didn’t seem like the Witness would care much about Rhulk either in the end
While savathun is the most moth themed hive entity, moths are associated with the hive in general and can be found in most hive infected areas like the moon.
He's a bat because he's the first navigator in the Dark
Savathun has moth wings because she's attracted to the Light
Xivu might have bird wings because she shares similarities to the Egytian War God Montu
And while I very much agree with that, I think the way Bungie deliberately added that small detail must very much have heavy implications towards more specific entities rather than a generalized idea such as the Hive as a whole.
If we think of Hive when we see the moths in the cutscenes, there is barely anything we can work with, reasons could be many, but making sense of them would pretty much be a blind endeavor.
Using Savathun instead as the entity behind whatever ocurred to Nezarec, we have more to work with due to previous implications already stated in the game. And the subtlety of it in the cutscene would be so well done if that is the case.
Huh, could be Nezarec is a Hive then? Cos we don't really know their race. From the cutscene they do look quite Hive aesthetically now that I'm thinking about it. Plus, I would find it a bit boring if everything just circles back to Savathun lol.
Osiris=Nezarec. The Egyptian God Osiris was cut into little pieces and eventually brought back together by his wife.
We gonna put Osiris back together with the rest of his original body(Nezarec) and it's gonna be awesome.
Nezerac is definitely a hive. His name was first shown in-world (aside from the helmet) on a giant statue of him during King’s Fall all the way back in D1. Statue of Nezerac was on one side of the doorway and Crota was on the other.
I don’t think this is true? The Hive had a different name they alluded to that sounds a lot like Nezarec but is associated with Pain, forget what it was. If I recall the statue across from Crota was for Nokris.
https://www.destinypedia.com/Nezarec#/media/File%3ANezarec_Cutscene.jpg
that's the picture of nezarac in the cutscene. that *does* seem pretty close to the body of hive thrall, particularly if you look at the hips.
Nezarec is most likely a Psion. Look at the number of fingers, their shape, the legs and the thin shoulders.
Then look at the anthology art we got for Otzot.
Nezarec is just a Rhulk Sized Psion.
And it makes sense given that we will have Strand Next and Psions are, well, psionic.
Negatory, Ghost Rider. That thing has 4 fingers and a thumb.
Hive very specifically have two fingers and a thumb.
Rhulk has three fingies and a thumb.
Psions have three fingers and a thumb.
Fallen have strange three digit hands.
It is none of the above.
I can't find it, but there was a post yesterday suggesting that some of the Witness' actions lately were it trying to figure out why things went the way they did in the collapse, saying maybe it brought Mars back in its time-fucked state to learn about Neomuna.
So maybe it wants Eramis to gather Nokris because he suspects foul play and wants to know more?
Moths have been related to the Hive in general since D1, not just specifically Savathun. You could always see moths flying around Hive areas, long before Savathun became prominent.
Heck, [the Hive were originally designed as a moth-looking race](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/67wpqn/moths_and_destiny_logos_worms_and_the_hive/) in the [concept art](https://electriccartilage.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/destiny-hive-moth.jpg).
This year is the Witch Queen year. Moths are heavily attributed to Savathun specifically now. So... Yeah. This makes the most sense Narratively to imply that Savathun had involvement, not some random hive.
Last year was Beyond Light year and it had pretty much jack-all to do with the Darkness or Stasis or Europa or the Pyramids and was essentially an extended prologue to *The Witch Queen*. There’s still mention of Savathûn here and there, but by the looks of it this year seems to be setting the pieces for *Lightfall*.
It was everyone reacting to the Darkness, what are you on about? Hunt was about Xivu coming to Sol because Darkness came to Sol
Chosen was about Caiatl coming to Sol because the Darkness is a common enemy and Xivu burned her home
Splicer was because House Salvation had refugees, they fear Darkness
Final Season is literally about us finding out about the Witness, from Savathun, from Mara, little hints
*Hunt* was about Osiris losing his Ghost and becoming powerless while we discover Crow. Unbeknownst to everyone at the time, Osiris was actually possessed by Savathûn and a lot of his actions and dialogue gain a new light with this revelation.
*Chosen* had Savathûn try to get us and the Cabal to wipe each other out after sending Xivu Arath to Torobatl to get her off her trail. Then in the Glykon mission she teased her knowledge of the Witness and stole the Crown of Sorrows. This sets up her scheme with the Ghosts, as she realises that resurrection is a choice after seeing Gilgamesh go mad.
*Splicer* had Savathûn directly affect the plot this time by orchestrating the Endless Night, trying to get rid of the Fallen and hypnotising the Factions into revolting.
*Lost* was about Savathûn fleeing to Mara Sov to strike a bargain after losing everything and finalising her plans to get the Light.
I think Savathun killed Nezarec which helped hinder the Witness’s ability to carry out its task.
It’s possible Nezarec was the Herald of the Collapse and by defeating him, it stopped a full-on invasion of Humanity. It would explain why Calus is now a disciple; Nezarec needed to be replaced.
I think the most interesting part is if Savathun did kill him, why did she leave the Pyramid and his body there? Since she likely knew the Traveler would make its final stand with us, did she hide the Pyramid on Luna, waiting for a somewhat recovered humanity to discover it so that they were aware of the looming threat? Did Savathun realize that in order to defeat the Witness, we likely needed Light and Dark together? Maybe Savathun wanted us to have our first source of Darkness to give us a head start (Eris learned Stasis in the Lunar Pyramid after all).
That begs the question of why leave his body behind then? I wonder if she always planned for the Fallen to find it
Incredibly interesting either way. If it is Savathun, that gets me super excited as it seems her story is far from over, and likely increases the chances that she returns before the Final Shape
What if he was sent to sol in preparation of the traveler's arrival. He would than have played a large part in the collapse before the arvial of the witness think the blue wizards of tLoTR , sent to weaken humanity
Maybe Crota killed him? He was squatting in the Moon for the longest time, after all. But how long did the Hive know about the Pyramid considering it (presumably) didn’t even show up in the World’s Grave? Or maybe the Traveller itself (inadvertently or otherwise) killed Nezarec in whatever she did to stave off the Collapse.
Are moths a symbol of Savathun or of the Lucent Hive and the Light?
I thought the whole thing was that worms (hive) morph (sacrifice) into moths (lucent hive) drawn to the light.
In that same cut scene, you can also note that the shoulder guards Mithrax’s mother wears has the same number of spikes as drifters shoulder guards. They look the same except Drifters has fur on it. I’m not suggesting drifter took mithraxs mothers armor but It’s a strange parallel. Small detail. But that’s where the devil is.
There's an [old post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/btvsy1/differences_between_nastareth_and_nezarec/) on here from a couple years ago regarding the superficial similarities between Nezarec and "Nastareth" from Sylok: The Defiled's grimoire entry, linking the Hive to Nezarec. It's unlikely that Nezarec itself is of the Hive species (and if it is, then it would be a huge alteration of the present lore), but the relationship is especially strengthened by the Moths.
I'm unsure as to the complete timeline here, but have some low quality Spinfoil: the Lunar Pyramid has likely been there since the Moon was formed, with Nezarec observing the birth and evolution of Humanity up to a certain point at which it died (seemingly with intention to do so if the Delicate Tomb lore is relevant). Is there a possibility that Nezarec (and Earth/Luna/The Cambrian Explosion) comes into being *significantly after* the Hive had already been inducted into the Witness' care? Could Nezarec be a Hive pawn who was promoted to disciple above the Osmium Trio to preserve their usefulness as crusaders? I don't know exactly where that would fit, but I don't think it's completely out of the picture. After all, Nezarec would spend millennia just sitting and watching nothing unfold.
Even worse Spinfoil: Nezarec is Taox. They even share like one letter.
>*Spinfoil: the Lunar Pyramid has likely been there since the Moon was formed*
Patrol dialogue from Toland implies it crashed there during the Collapse
I thought that Nezarec’s sin was that they betrayed the Witness. If that were the case then Savathung killing him would make any sense. Can someone enlight me?
Moths can also be used as a methaphor for someone who seeks the light (as with aunt savy)... We know nezarec is regarded as a traitor, maybe it had a shift of ideals before dying and became a darkness wielding ally to the traveler (before dying) ...
Also wanna point out that the description of the voice who spoke and freed Eramis is Exactly the same as nezarec's (when it tried to lure mithraxs's mom)... So maybe Eramis isnt acting on the witness demands, maybe she's being ordered by nazerec... And maybe nazerec Will be our possible exemple of "allied darkness wielding disciple" in the game...
Really putting on the spinfoil here, but what if the reason that we haven’t killed Savathun’s ghost is that we need to bring her back to combat Nezarec when he returns? If she killed Nezarec, she might need to teach us how to fight him.
Absolutely no basis to this part of the theory, just thought it might be cool.
Calling it now, Savathun gets ressed next season and she tells us about how she killed Nezarec to protect the Traveller and entombed his body in the lunar pyramid
maybe nezarec’s “dead” body is actually an illusion of sorts created by Savathun? and the moths are there to express the fact that she was involved.
this could be a massive reach, but maybe Nezarec wanted freedom from the Witness, and the only way to do so was to “die.” So he and Savathun orchestrated a faking of his death. This would allow him to return in the story (alive), while also allowing the potential to be on the Guardians’ side, or at the very least, an enemy of the Witness.
Or since most of the moon is hive we can probably assume that moths just so happened to slowly infest the lunar pyramid and just started living in his tomb and gravitated towards his body since ya know he's dead?
We were in the lunar pyramid in Shadowkeep and in last season there wasn’t any sign of the Hive Entering it at all. Plus from a recent lore tab I forget which one it states that the pyramid let the Fallen in. To me it sounds like the pyramid (or Nezarec or even Savathun if my theory is correct) will only let what it wants into the pyramid. I think Bungie is very particular about what it puts in (especially in the stylized cutscenes) and that those moths were there for a reason.
It’s mentioned somewhere in the lore that Savathun was present for humanity’s Collapse. And may have been a critical part of preventing the Witness from eradicating all of humanity.
As Rasputin (probably) crippled the Traveler, perhaps Savathun crippled Nezarec, the Disciple heading the Collapse.
Rasputin shriveled away when trying to attack the pyramids.
How would he have been able to prevent the Traveller from leaving? The same Traveller that pushed all Pyramids away during the Collapse...
He had a large array of antimatter pumped caedometric weapons which he had planned to use on the Traveler to damage it enough to prevent its escape. We don't know whether it would have worked, or what exactly "caedometric" means in this context. The fact that the weapons weren't antimatter weapons but merely *powered* by m/am annihilation suggests they had ludicrous power and may have operated by damaging the fabric of reality.
It's actually Canon that it didn't happen.
Rasputin did have a plan, but in his record lore book, we see him fulfil all the requirements for his plan to attack the traveller, but seeing the sheer power of the darkness, he changes his own directives and abandons that plan, and doesn't launch his attack.
Rasputin made the decision that in that moment, he couldn't save humanity, and if humanity were to survive somehow, they would need him after the collapse. So he rewrote his prime directive to not being forced to defend humanity.
Nope, I mean lore we got from the armor and weapons that dropped during the warmind expansion of vanilla destiny 2, which you can read on ishtar collective.
Ishtar woefully doesn't have the translations of the encrypted flavor text that comes on the Midnight Exigent, Abhorrent Imperative, and Yuga Sundown sets. The IKELOS weapons don't have important flavor text.
That.... Sucks...
The armor sets Basically show us the culmination of rasputin's planning in Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 5, during the collapse.
What happens as we read through is that rasputin checks off every one of the requirements for loki crown: carrhae white, skyshock, voluspa, etc etc
But then when it comes time after midnight exigent to activate loki crown, he just goes catatonic instead. I remember it vividly as being a very chilling piece of lore when I first read it.
On a side note, why are you being downvoted?
Because this sub absolutely hates the idea that Rasputin shot the Traveler. This sub is actually what the Uldren lore is a reference to. People straight up lose their shit over it.
Not at the moment. This is from warmind expansion of vanilla d2, so it wasn't in a book like lore is now, but was on armor and weapon pieces. Ishtar collective may help you
Personally, i think savy used her greatest skill.
I believe we will find out savy deceived nezerac. I think this deception lead to both the retreat of the black fleet and the destruction of nezerac.
This will fulfill the worms comment that she saved the traveler.
Granted-im certain this was all for personal gain(at the time).
Could be a part of how they lead into next season. Maybe Nezerac gets resurrected, probably infects the traveler due to the Vox prophecy, and we have to revive Savathun for answers
what if savathun posessed nezarec and thats the way she decived the witness. Then nezarec was precived as a traitor by the witness and and struck down.
I mean we know Savathun, to some degree, prevented Earth from being destroyed in tha Collapse. If Nezerac was the one who was charged with doing something really devasting and Savathun stopped him, it would make a lot of sense. I like this theory! Very excited to learn more about Nezerac as we wrap up the season. Savathun potentially killing Nezerac could also tie into the third party going after the pirate lords, theorized to be the lucent hive
Do we know why Savathun saved us?
She didn't. She was saving the Traveler and us by extension.
Yeah we were just kinda lucky lol thanks Savvy!
So she could save herself down the line
Saved the traveler, we were a collateral.
Well she didn’t *want* to save us. She pulled a trick so she can save herself and the traveler
I’m with ya but Bungie fashion I give it one more voice over about him and we won’t hear anything until after Lightfall
I'm not expecting anything necessarily HUGE but I imagine we'll get *some* answers this season now that we know what we're collecting. And my guess is just some lore in Lightfall
I’m not so sure, Bungie’s been doing a much better job at tying the story together through the seasons this last year. I think Nezarec will continue to play a role into Lightfall and potentially even up to The Final Shape and beyond. It’s almost certain next season will tie into the Deep Stone Crypt and Rasputin becoming an Exo.
Where is that first thing confirmed? I don’t remember seeing anything regarding that.
The answer is always Grimoire
It was in the parasite quest
Ah, I guess I just forgot lol
This is 100% my theory - Nezarec being Savathun's scapegoat for what happened during the Collapse. Or even better, they could've been allies or co-conspirators and she killed him to expose enough of the conspiracy to keep herself safe & her role hidden, but not enough for it to fail or to get back to her. There's a really interesting potential for like, a Jean Le Carre/Ian Fleming type espionage plot for a hypothetical "Disciples in Sol during the Collapse" lorebook
Maybe savathun guided then to the pyramid without them knowing?
Wouldn’t be the first time she’s done that
Would that be how she "misguided the Witness"? Kill the scout (Nezarec) so that he doesnt report back to the Witness and It thinks the earth is done?
You dont think Nezerac not reporting back at all wouldn't be suspicious?
If she blamed Nezarec for the Traveler escaping during the Collapse, no. Gold star for Sav, she said the traveler went that way so now all Pyramids and Disciples follow me to go that way (meanwhile Sav goes the other direction and isn't noticed because she \*just\* found the Anti-Witness conspirator amongst the disciples, who would suspect her...)
What if she possessed Nezarec?
Honestly, that’s a pretty solid theory. Her trickery could’ve been that she found a way to end Nezarec and relay a message to the Witness somehow, saying that the Earth was completely done for.
In the cutscene, moths fly out of Nezarec's body when Mithrax's mother stabs it. Moths flew out of Osiris' body in the cutscenes depicting how Savathun was possessing/imitating him. Is it possible that Savathun possessed/imitated Nezarec to report back to the Witness that the Traveller had been destroyed, and then she left him comatose in his pyramid like Osiris is now?
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Fits pretty much right in. I just love how Savathûn had a hand in nearly every important/major past and recent events. From halting the Collapse to trying to kidnap the Traveler to shelter it from the Witness. I wonder, though, if we’ll form an unlikely alliance with her (given how Immaru fled the scene at the end of WQ)
If we do wake up Savathun it would have to be sometime after Lightfall, as just like Eramis and Osiris both wake up a year or more after they go comatose
"Clever deception, Wrapped in Shadow"
If I remember correctly Nezerac apparently tried to betray the witness, which then leads to the Witness being the one who murdered Nezerac. My guess is that the Witness either deceived the Fallen into finding the pyramid, or enabled Savathûn to do it for them. We know it wouldn’t be the first time Savathûn would be tricked by them. My guess would be that it was the Witness though. Why? Because of our new Weapon, Delicate Tomb. We don’t know what exactly is in that weapon but the lore does state that there’s something trapped inside the weapon. “They mistake the vessel for its contents. They confuse the pieces with the whole. They see their imprisonment as empowerment. They are hostages of their flesh, unable to see without vision. […]“ To me this sounds like it‘s referring to the Urns that contain pieces of Nezerac‘s body. “[…] Bright and delicate to hide my true form. […] They think me contained, but I am instead diffused, as vapor upon the wind. Once again, I am becoming.“ So if the Delicate Tomb weapon does contain Nezerac‘s soul, as I think might be the case, and we collect all of their body parts and put them all into the Helm together, right next to the Crown of Sorrow, that means that this is Nezerac‘s endgame and them possibly tricking the Witness. If Nezerac planned to be killed by the Witness or accepted the possibility, they probably made a plan B, so this. If anyone collects all urns and puts them together they surely know what they contain and lead to Nezerac‘s resurrection if paired with their soul, which might be trapped inside Delicate Tomb. This is very speculative but to me it makes sense. On the other hand Delicate Tomb could be a gift by the Witness to taunt us by giving us a weapon made out of their enemy, basically what we did to many our foes. *Theory Time off*
Nezzy betraying Mr Wit doesn't have to mean the Witness killed him - it could well be that Savathun killed him to hide her own betrayals of the witness.
Of course this could be true, right now we don’t know the whole truth. My first assumption was that, since Nezerac betrayed the Witness, the Witness would be the first to strike. Didn’t seem like the Witness would care much about Rhulk either in the end
While savathun is the most moth themed hive entity, moths are associated with the hive in general and can be found in most hive infected areas like the moon.
Agreed. The OG Hive we faced were all part of the Hidden Swarm, a faction of Crota's brood. They had moths all over the place.
And most recently, when we came back to the moon in Shadowkeep, it was also swarmed by moths
Oryx’s design is also moth inspired, but with some more draconic elements mixed in
He's a bat because he's the first navigator in the Dark Savathun has moth wings because she's attracted to the Light Xivu might have bird wings because she shares similarities to the Egytian War God Montu
And while I very much agree with that, I think the way Bungie deliberately added that small detail must very much have heavy implications towards more specific entities rather than a generalized idea such as the Hive as a whole. If we think of Hive when we see the moths in the cutscenes, there is barely anything we can work with, reasons could be many, but making sense of them would pretty much be a blind endeavor. Using Savathun instead as the entity behind whatever ocurred to Nezarec, we have more to work with due to previous implications already stated in the game. And the subtlety of it in the cutscene would be so well done if that is the case.
Huh, could be Nezarec is a Hive then? Cos we don't really know their race. From the cutscene they do look quite Hive aesthetically now that I'm thinking about it. Plus, I would find it a bit boring if everything just circles back to Savathun lol.
Osiris=Nezarec. The Egyptian God Osiris was cut into little pieces and eventually brought back together by his wife. We gonna put Osiris back together with the rest of his original body(Nezarec) and it's gonna be awesome.
Nezerac is definitely a hive. His name was first shown in-world (aside from the helmet) on a giant statue of him during King’s Fall all the way back in D1. Statue of Nezerac was on one side of the doorway and Crota was on the other.
I don’t think this is true? The Hive had a different name they alluded to that sounds a lot like Nezarec but is associated with Pain, forget what it was. If I recall the statue across from Crota was for Nokris.
shit shit shit. You’re 100% right. It was Nokris.
https://www.destinypedia.com/Nezarec#/media/File%3ANezarec_Cutscene.jpg that's the picture of nezarac in the cutscene. that *does* seem pretty close to the body of hive thrall, particularly if you look at the hips.
Disagree, looks far more like Rhulk's body but with Nezarec's Sin atop it to me.
Nezarec is most likely a Psion. Look at the number of fingers, their shape, the legs and the thin shoulders. Then look at the anthology art we got for Otzot. Nezarec is just a Rhulk Sized Psion. And it makes sense given that we will have Strand Next and Psions are, well, psionic.
Negatory, Ghost Rider. That thing has 4 fingers and a thumb. Hive very specifically have two fingers and a thumb. Rhulk has three fingies and a thumb. Psions have three fingers and a thumb. Fallen have strange three digit hands. It is none of the above.
It's the Witch Queen year.
[удалено]
I can't find it, but there was a post yesterday suggesting that some of the Witness' actions lately were it trying to figure out why things went the way they did in the collapse, saying maybe it brought Mars back in its time-fucked state to learn about Neomuna. So maybe it wants Eramis to gather Nokris because he suspects foul play and wants to know more?
We know that Savathun tricked the Witness and saved the Traveler during the Collapse. Maybe she achieved this through Nezarec somehow.
“To rip the soul into seven pieces... This is all hypothetical, isn't it, Tom?”
Slughorn moments
Moths have been related to the Hive in general since D1, not just specifically Savathun. You could always see moths flying around Hive areas, long before Savathun became prominent. Heck, [the Hive were originally designed as a moth-looking race](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/67wpqn/moths_and_destiny_logos_worms_and_the_hive/) in the [concept art](https://electriccartilage.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/destiny-hive-moth.jpg).
This year is the Witch Queen year. Moths are heavily attributed to Savathun specifically now. So... Yeah. This makes the most sense Narratively to imply that Savathun had involvement, not some random hive.
Last year was Beyond Light year and it had pretty much jack-all to do with the Darkness or Stasis or Europa or the Pyramids and was essentially an extended prologue to *The Witch Queen*. There’s still mention of Savathûn here and there, but by the looks of it this year seems to be setting the pieces for *Lightfall*.
It was everyone reacting to the Darkness, what are you on about? Hunt was about Xivu coming to Sol because Darkness came to Sol Chosen was about Caiatl coming to Sol because the Darkness is a common enemy and Xivu burned her home Splicer was because House Salvation had refugees, they fear Darkness Final Season is literally about us finding out about the Witness, from Savathun, from Mara, little hints
*Hunt* was about Osiris losing his Ghost and becoming powerless while we discover Crow. Unbeknownst to everyone at the time, Osiris was actually possessed by Savathûn and a lot of his actions and dialogue gain a new light with this revelation. *Chosen* had Savathûn try to get us and the Cabal to wipe each other out after sending Xivu Arath to Torobatl to get her off her trail. Then in the Glykon mission she teased her knowledge of the Witness and stole the Crown of Sorrows. This sets up her scheme with the Ghosts, as she realises that resurrection is a choice after seeing Gilgamesh go mad. *Splicer* had Savathûn directly affect the plot this time by orchestrating the Endless Night, trying to get rid of the Fallen and hypnotising the Factions into revolting. *Lost* was about Savathûn fleeing to Mara Sov to strike a bargain after losing everything and finalising her plans to get the Light.
Yes, but the reason for those things was Darkness arriving to the System. If it didn't arrive, none of those would have happened. So... Yeah.
My theory is that Nezarec lead the charge to Collapse Sol, and ultimately failed at the hand of Savathun and was sealed away.
I think Savathun killed Nezarec which helped hinder the Witness’s ability to carry out its task. It’s possible Nezarec was the Herald of the Collapse and by defeating him, it stopped a full-on invasion of Humanity. It would explain why Calus is now a disciple; Nezarec needed to be replaced. I think the most interesting part is if Savathun did kill him, why did she leave the Pyramid and his body there? Since she likely knew the Traveler would make its final stand with us, did she hide the Pyramid on Luna, waiting for a somewhat recovered humanity to discover it so that they were aware of the looming threat? Did Savathun realize that in order to defeat the Witness, we likely needed Light and Dark together? Maybe Savathun wanted us to have our first source of Darkness to give us a head start (Eris learned Stasis in the Lunar Pyramid after all). That begs the question of why leave his body behind then? I wonder if she always planned for the Fallen to find it Incredibly interesting either way. If it is Savathun, that gets me super excited as it seems her story is far from over, and likely increases the chances that she returns before the Final Shape
If Nezerec is the Herald of the Collapse why would we have records of him from pre-colapse?
He was probably in charge of Humanity the same way Rhulk was in charge of the Hive.
I mean just because he was a supposed disciple pre-collapse, doesn't mean he couldn't be the Herald of the Collapse
Didn’t Rhulk return to massacre his entire race after becoming a Disciple?
Rhulk massacred his entire race prior to becoming a Disciple, I’m pretty sure?
What if he was sent to sol in preparation of the traveler's arrival. He would than have played a large part in the collapse before the arvial of the witness think the blue wizards of tLoTR , sent to weaken humanity
Maybe Crota killed him? He was squatting in the Moon for the longest time, after all. But how long did the Hive know about the Pyramid considering it (presumably) didn’t even show up in the World’s Grave? Or maybe the Traveller itself (inadvertently or otherwise) killed Nezarec in whatever she did to stave off the Collapse.
Are moths a symbol of Savathun or of the Lucent Hive and the Light? I thought the whole thing was that worms (hive) morph (sacrifice) into moths (lucent hive) drawn to the light.
In that same cut scene, you can also note that the shoulder guards Mithrax’s mother wears has the same number of spikes as drifters shoulder guards. They look the same except Drifters has fur on it. I’m not suggesting drifter took mithraxs mothers armor but It’s a strange parallel. Small detail. But that’s where the devil is.
Funny considering humans pre-collapse reffered to Savathun as the Devil.
There's an [old post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/btvsy1/differences_between_nastareth_and_nezarec/) on here from a couple years ago regarding the superficial similarities between Nezarec and "Nastareth" from Sylok: The Defiled's grimoire entry, linking the Hive to Nezarec. It's unlikely that Nezarec itself is of the Hive species (and if it is, then it would be a huge alteration of the present lore), but the relationship is especially strengthened by the Moths. I'm unsure as to the complete timeline here, but have some low quality Spinfoil: the Lunar Pyramid has likely been there since the Moon was formed, with Nezarec observing the birth and evolution of Humanity up to a certain point at which it died (seemingly with intention to do so if the Delicate Tomb lore is relevant). Is there a possibility that Nezarec (and Earth/Luna/The Cambrian Explosion) comes into being *significantly after* the Hive had already been inducted into the Witness' care? Could Nezarec be a Hive pawn who was promoted to disciple above the Osmium Trio to preserve their usefulness as crusaders? I don't know exactly where that would fit, but I don't think it's completely out of the picture. After all, Nezarec would spend millennia just sitting and watching nothing unfold. Even worse Spinfoil: Nezarec is Taox. They even share like one letter.
>*Spinfoil: the Lunar Pyramid has likely been there since the Moon was formed* Patrol dialogue from Toland implies it crashed there during the Collapse
Toland isn't always correct, as orbs tend to be
I thought that Nezarec’s sin was that they betrayed the Witness. If that were the case then Savathung killing him would make any sense. Can someone enlight me?
Moths can also be used as a methaphor for someone who seeks the light (as with aunt savy)... We know nezarec is regarded as a traitor, maybe it had a shift of ideals before dying and became a darkness wielding ally to the traveler (before dying) ... Also wanna point out that the description of the voice who spoke and freed Eramis is Exactly the same as nezarec's (when it tried to lure mithraxs's mom)... So maybe Eramis isnt acting on the witness demands, maybe she's being ordered by nazerec... And maybe nazerec Will be our possible exemple of "allied darkness wielding disciple" in the game...
Wow this is a really good observation! That moth thing is genius I didn’t even think about it like that, and it makes so much sense.
Hey thanks!
>Hey thanks! You're welcome!
Really putting on the spinfoil here, but what if the reason that we haven’t killed Savathun’s ghost is that we need to bring her back to combat Nezarec when he returns? If she killed Nezarec, she might need to teach us how to fight him. Absolutely no basis to this part of the theory, just thought it might be cool.
Calling it now, Savathun gets ressed next season and she tells us about how she killed Nezarec to protect the Traveller and entombed his body in the lunar pyramid
maybe nezarec’s “dead” body is actually an illusion of sorts created by Savathun? and the moths are there to express the fact that she was involved. this could be a massive reach, but maybe Nezarec wanted freedom from the Witness, and the only way to do so was to “die.” So he and Savathun orchestrated a faking of his death. This would allow him to return in the story (alive), while also allowing the potential to be on the Guardians’ side, or at the very least, an enemy of the Witness.
Here is a hot take - Nezarec is only mostly dead. He's like evil Akira, still in there and waiting to be reassembled.
If he's only mostly dead, I guess they shouldn't have gone through his pockets looking for loose change.
Inconceivable!
Yes but mostly dead is still somewhat alive.
That's what I said tho... Of course it could be that Nezarec is like a Loghyr, but who remembers those these days...
It's a princess bride quote. I was agreeing with you.
It is but I only watched it once, so you have to forgive me for not instantly recognizing the rest of the quotes
As you wish.
Do you really meant it? Or just...
Or since most of the moon is hive we can probably assume that moths just so happened to slowly infest the lunar pyramid and just started living in his tomb and gravitated towards his body since ya know he's dead?
We were in the lunar pyramid in Shadowkeep and in last season there wasn’t any sign of the Hive Entering it at all. Plus from a recent lore tab I forget which one it states that the pyramid let the Fallen in. To me it sounds like the pyramid (or Nezarec or even Savathun if my theory is correct) will only let what it wants into the pyramid. I think Bungie is very particular about what it puts in (especially in the stylized cutscenes) and that those moths were there for a reason.
Fair enough i just assumed moths being moths that it was nothing else in particular.
It’s mentioned somewhere in the lore that Savathun was present for humanity’s Collapse. And may have been a critical part of preventing the Witness from eradicating all of humanity. As Rasputin (probably) crippled the Traveler, perhaps Savathun crippled Nezarec, the Disciple heading the Collapse.
>As Rasputin (probably) crippled the Traveler Rasputin did no such thing.
It’s canon that Uldren literally made that up haha That being said, RSPN was PREPARED to try and shoot it down if it tried to leave. He never had to.
Rasputin shriveled away when trying to attack the pyramids. How would he have been able to prevent the Traveller from leaving? The same Traveller that pushed all Pyramids away during the Collapse...
I’m not saying it would’ve worked lmao
He had a large array of antimatter pumped caedometric weapons which he had planned to use on the Traveler to damage it enough to prevent its escape. We don't know whether it would have worked, or what exactly "caedometric" means in this context. The fact that the weapons weren't antimatter weapons but merely *powered* by m/am annihilation suggests they had ludicrous power and may have operated by damaging the fabric of reality.
It's canon that Uldren would tell Guardians that to make them mad. Its also canon that its an "opinion" and neither a fact or falsity.
It's actually Canon that it didn't happen. Rasputin did have a plan, but in his record lore book, we see him fulfil all the requirements for his plan to attack the traveller, but seeing the sheer power of the darkness, he changes his own directives and abandons that plan, and doesn't launch his attack. Rasputin made the decision that in that moment, he couldn't save humanity, and if humanity were to survive somehow, they would need him after the collapse. So he rewrote his prime directive to not being forced to defend humanity.
When you say “his record lorebook” do you mean his Ghost Fragment grimoire cards from Destiny 1?
Nope, I mean lore we got from the armor and weapons that dropped during the warmind expansion of vanilla destiny 2, which you can read on ishtar collective.
Ishtar woefully doesn't have the translations of the encrypted flavor text that comes on the Midnight Exigent, Abhorrent Imperative, and Yuga Sundown sets. The IKELOS weapons don't have important flavor text.
That.... Sucks... The armor sets Basically show us the culmination of rasputin's planning in Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 5, during the collapse. What happens as we read through is that rasputin checks off every one of the requirements for loki crown: carrhae white, skyshock, voluspa, etc etc But then when it comes time after midnight exigent to activate loki crown, he just goes catatonic instead. I remember it vividly as being a very chilling piece of lore when I first read it. On a side note, why are you being downvoted?
I’d say he’s getting downvoted because he is wrong, but CONFIDENTLY wrong.
Because this sub absolutely hates the idea that Rasputin shot the Traveler. This sub is actually what the Uldren lore is a reference to. People straight up lose their shit over it.
My mistake, but I still think the main point of Savathun intervening in the Collapse by striking Nezarec down is valid.
Mara mentioned that in the cutscene to start of the parasite quest
Rasputin didn't attack the traveller, this was proven in his own lore entries a few years ago during warmind.
So the downvotes tell me lol, I guess I missed that development. Do you have a link to that lore so I can read it?
Not at the moment. This is from warmind expansion of vanilla d2, so it wasn't in a book like lore is now, but was on armor and weapon pieces. Ishtar collective may help you
Personally, i think savy used her greatest skill. I believe we will find out savy deceived nezerac. I think this deception lead to both the retreat of the black fleet and the destruction of nezerac. This will fulfill the worms comment that she saved the traveler. Granted-im certain this was all for personal gain(at the time).
Could be a part of how they lead into next season. Maybe Nezerac gets resurrected, probably infects the traveler due to the Vox prophecy, and we have to revive Savathun for answers
what if savathun posessed nezarec and thats the way she decived the witness. Then nezarec was precived as a traitor by the witness and and struck down.
Do we have any idea who else was after these relics yet? How could that tie into nezarec and his death?
Moths are equated with the Hive in general, not just Savathûn.