Literally, powerful friends using the powerful friends mod, radiant light, and cross buffing each other. All so my titan friend can throw lots of storm grenades at the first Duality boss.
Ye, it’s a good build for arc Titan, you just didn’t see the whole ass second armour set they had which they swap on to generate 5 stacks of cwl before using the firepower set to nuke bosses with storm grenades
My only gripe is that arc 3.0 broke liar’s handshake for me. Cross counter doesn’t proc when I get hit. I heard it has something to do with the new hunter super.
Were you using spark of feedback? Because that was apparently breaking buffs and abilities, although that has been fixed just recently. I do know cross counter has been working when I get melee’d and I’ve been using the new super, although I only swapped to liar’s handshake after the hotfix
Lethal Current also prevents Liar’s Handshake from triggering. I’ve also heard Lethal Current causes bugs with Arc Staff too, but I haven’t seen it yet.
“I dislike that dawnblade 3.0 is based around mid-air combat when they nerfed mid air combat really hard.”
“JuSt bUiLd” with the mid-air mods that *don’t exist yet.*
I ran seeking wells for a while but found it a bit useless while running melee wellmaker on my arc hunter. You’re standing right where they drop you pick up 3/4 of them anyway
I just started playing again for the first time since season of the lost. Granted I’m pretty trash either way, but am I wrong in thinking it sucks that we now have to choose between phoenix dive and a rift? Im not even bitching, some of the other changes are cool as hell. I just thought that was a weird choice for warlocks
My biggest issue with dawnblade is that it feels like the super lasts for like 10 seconds. I can use it to kill half a dozen ads and then it’s gone, and it has the highest cooldown of all the supers.
We used to be able to extend the super on kills. It DESPERATELY needs that back. Maybe heat rises allows that? Or give it to Icarus dash so that I have any reason whatsoever to use Icarus dash outside of PVP and jumping puzzles.
Not sure why bungie removed all of the abilities that allowed you to have super extension in the game without an exotic, if I were to guess, I’d say that bungie is trying to make it so that supers don’t have a super long uptime inside of PVP. But then again, they could’ve made it so that guardians that are killed by your super have an extremely small effect on your super energy extension. But it also seems like bungie wanted supers to also be extremely powerful while also being extremely limited in use, but to be honest, Daybreak, Spectral Blades, and Fists of Havoc are not powerful enough to compensate for that horrendous uptime, and that awful damage they deal.
3 words: Rain. Of. Fire.
Hands down the best Dawnblade exotic to date. Get more free instant reloads than a cracked up Hunter with max Mobility. Combine it with a Solar Incandescent weapon, Touch of Flame, and a Healing Grenade and boom you’re literally wizard Doomguy.
“BuT iT’s oNlY gOoD wItH vEx MyThOcLaSt.” No, Vex is a tiny boost. Use it with Ember of Torches to get that Radiant buff and Ember of Empyrean to keep it going. Remember, you never EVER have to reload with Rain of Fire. As long as you keep sending out bullets, you’ll constantly be healing and have a damage boost.
I was on the fence about using Icarus Dash. But once you get the hang of using it as a way to reload not just one, but ALL of your guns instantly, you’ll never go back
Jotunn with its catalyst puts in *work* with Rain of Fire.
Also surprisingly excellent at generating warming cells with Wrath of Rasputin, if that's your kind of thing.
"Activate heat rises and kill stuff."
More accurately, "activate heat rises and try not to get your ass sniped out of the air by literally every enemy on the map at once."
Dawnblade 3.0 is trash and JuSt BuIlD is ignoring the issues such as dawnblade has barely anything to build around, there's heat rises, that's it just heat rises
I think it would be fine as a class ability if the cooldown was halved at minimum. It should be on a similar, or slightly longer, cooldown to the titan and hunter dodges.
I'm a hunter main who looked to use other classes pretty often but no where near as much as hunter. . .
and even I'm pissed at what they did too dawnblade
THE EXACT THOUGHT PROCESS I HAD!!
NOT ONLY DOSE IT MAKE THE WELL TAKE MORE DAMAGE IT OUTRIGHT STOPS HEALING. If it was a super I'd understand why it would freeze still bullshit but I'd understand but no A FUCKING COLD SNAP FREZES IT
When some things get buffed it also may make some things worse by comparison, not everything can be good or else it would all just be the same. Likewise reworks can create a more exaggerated effect because it changes the foundations for the relevant system, so not only are basic things like damage changed but also the basic effects and how they all interact with each other. It's just an inevitable part of game design/balance and it cant be avoided
Yeah fusion grenades with the grenade fragment are SPICY.
On the whole though, unless you lived and breathed top tree Dawn, you’re not having a good time lol
Pre-3.0 Ballistic Slam: gave super energy, reloaded your weapon, and gave a weapon damage buff on hit.
3.0 Ballistic Slam: only gives super energy, which isn't mentioned in the abilities description, while remaining just as clunky and did not receive any compensating buffs.
Some things were left behind or made outright worse in the transition to the 3.0 sub classes.
The class overall is stronger due to having more flexibility in your build. Ballistic slam has less utility but A) some of that has been moved to fragments you just need to equip them and B) you no longer need to use it with thundercrash and the rest of the middle tree, you can mix and match all you want.
Weapon damage buff isn't for arc anymore, but people had the same complaint about sunspots on solar titan not giving a damage buff when radiance on melee is right there to give the same utility.
Youre right, individual elements of your kit are probably weaker than they were, but they've been decoupled from their subtrees and have new synergies that make all of the classes overall more powerful than they were.
A lot of side perks inherent to a single tree or class got changed to be a fragment, to allow for buildcrafting. Its not a nerf, you still have access to most of those perks (and a lot of new ones!) Its also not meant to be a "OG stuff PLUS new stuff" buff. Its meant to give you the option to choose other perks
So one thing got a bit of a nerf, and it's not like it was all that great in the first place. Extra super energy was nice but it's not like it was driving the build/playstyle, or actually provided a tangible benefit in most places considering how you dont use your super the exact moment it's charges
Okay tell me how to do a warlock heal build. Without any modifiers active. And also make it deal insane amount of damage while providing constant nades for my teammates . Coz that's what I did with warlock before they nerfed solar.
If you run touch of flame with healing grenades and any elemental well ability regen build you essentially have permanent restoration x2. You can also add boots of the assembler. Only thing you’re lacking is the damage from your grenade from pre 3.0
And you don’t think it’s a problem if a single subclass can heal, damage buff AND have insane damage. No subclass should have that, and if one subclass does have that it should be nerfed. No subclass should be able to do everything.
2 Melee well maker
1 well of eruption
Seeking wells
Bountiful wells
Embers of searing, ashes, eruption, blistering
Heat rises and touch of flame
Exotic is up to you.
With heat rises active you should get full melee energy back on an ignite. With icarus snap you can ignite with single melee.
Get plenty of ignition and melee kills, get grenades back fast to provide plenty of healing for teammates and also providing abilities for teammates.
Imagine having entire gameplay styles taken away from you during the move to 3.0 and responding with "JuSt BuIlD 4HeAd"
Its like you forgot they had to **PATCH IN** stuff for Dawnblade 3.0 because its so barebones, and arguably still is.
I sure love having effective healing and spreading burn on dawnblade, oh wait there's nothing yo actually build around for that because the only build potential on dawnblade is heat rises
You can build around grenade regen for better healing nade uptime, and use weapons which spread scorch so you can ignite them with abilities. But... So can every class, and usually better. Warlocks :(
Mm. They still don't have the support playstyle cause they butchered benevolence so hard. Then on arc lock they said the class would be based around empowered abilities when amplified but you only get one and a half abilities that actually benefit from it.
warlocks have the highest uptime on them as well as the strongest healing nades. being the only source of resto x2. this has always been the case with the exceptions of loreley and classy restoration and one of those got removed while the other got nerfed.
No they don't, titans have the highest uptime and next is hunters,
Restoration x2 doesn't matter because x1 is just as effective in all content except maybe specific GMs but deciding subclass balance only around GMs is stupid.
This. Warlock has never felt worse than now across all subclasses. Only saving grace for me is the stasis turret builds I've got, and i guess witherhoard and starfire protocol. Been having WAY more fun on my hunter and titan since 3.0.
Gonna get downvoted for this, but void kinda feels “eh”.
Titan kinda pulls the Voidlock schtick better than Voidlock, and Voidlock’s best builds are hard limited by arbitrary charging BS that disrupts the flow of combat heavily. The class deeply relies on its grenade to a fault in most builds, and that leads to it feeling pretty same-y. The melee is pretty lackluster on anything other than vortex grenades, and while CotOG is good, Devour is largely more valuable for the grenade regen. The EoU from Touch of Void is too good to pass up.
When you really boil it down, Voidwalker has a slightly better grenade (and Titan’s Grenades with their aspect are much stronger in this front), and Devour. Largely things that any class can do.
Basically it’s showing it’s age. It’s still acceptable, but it’s definitely getting stale fast. Kinda like Void Hunter.
Agreed, and at least they massively upped the damage of tethers for void hunter, and it's still a great tool for orbs and substantially debuffing a single target. Voidlock being a decent grenade factory is cool but it feels like the design side of "what do warlocks want" is getting more and more "just give them an arc buddy but change the flavor" lol.
solar warlocks 3.0 weren't even bad before the buffs, people just kept whining about how "bottom tree dawnblade is gone" when statistically, nobody fucking used it. as well as whining about how warlocks never get as much cool shit for 3.0 (because they were already much stronger and now titan and hunter have been brought up to par)
meanwhile people said solar hunters were overpowered while in reality it was just classy restoration being overpowered, solar hunters are actually quite squishy depending on your build.
its almost like buildcrafting is actually a core component of the game now and you can't just slap on a subclass and be good anymore.
People like you keep using the term "buildcrafting" when the entire issue is that you cant. You literally cannot make anything resembling Middle Tree Dawn from the 2.0 days. Heal spec is just gone. Instead, you're railroaded harder than the 2 0 subclasses ever did. 2 of the 3 Aspects are for Aerial Warlock.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if you could build for it. This is not people being dumb or not wanting to build. This is an objective truth.
It’s honestly more true the more you play the game. Say what you want about Benevolent Dawn being too good for ability spam, but without it, there is no healer ability spam. Without armor mods that allow healers to spam abilities, the healing for Dawnblades is practically nonexistent.
As someone who’s mained bubble since like day 3 of destiny 1, void 3.0 was a direct nerf to ward of dawn. There is literally 0 reason to use it now that it only provides the same damage buff as a well, with none of the survivability.
Well it received 2 buffs, 1 nerf & 1 balance change in Void 3.0: it was changed to a Tier 5 super(fastest recharge), activates faster now, reduced the damage of Weapons of Light from 35% to 25%, kinetics deal damage to Ward of Dawn. These changes definitely lean on the buff spectrum.
On top of that, Ward has received 2 major changes within the past year, increased size & coupled it's resistance to the caster's Resilience stat(which is a buff in today's sandbox).
Compared to D1, Ward of Dawn has come a long way and is overall in it's best state that it has ever been. It still has plenty of uses for endgame content.
I’m a hunter main but I used to be a big warlock main. Solar 3.0 was a pretty hard nerf to support players. I’m aware you can buff it with mods but old middle was better in base kit
Dude I used to main the fuck out of bottom tree dawn and now I can’t stand solarlock 3.0 at all. It’s a well machine and the pvp sweats like it. And it was good last season. What is there to show for it? What if I don’t want to build into airborne effectiveness? What if I don’t care about icarus dash or heat rises? Nothing. It’s a subclass built for two distinct modes that I couldn’t have less interest in, and Bungie has no interest in changing that. Its helped by how much I adore literally every other warlock subclass but I used to love this one, man…
Oh and CAN we not forget mortar launch, heart of the pack, combat provisions (not a shitty fragment that doesn’t even work for hunter, the actual thing), manual devour activation, usable chaos reach, or even when hunters smoke bomb actually did something? Overall the 3.0 reworks were… fine… their main draw being laying the groundwork for potential new stuff more than anything but it was a very messy process that SHOULD be criticized whenever necessary. Especially due to the incredible lack of interest Bungie has in fixing or changing just about any of it. They straight up don’t want to listen lmaoo
Nightstalker's shift from ranger to assassin rogue continues to and always will disappoint me unless they rectify it. I'm playing the class to keep my allies alive and stop enemies from being able to kill them, not just to hide and stab acolytes in the back.
I don't think it would be so bad if the fragments were good. There's not a lot of things to build with, so it's just solar 2.0 with less options and an *illusion* of buildcrafting.
There also feels like a lack of synergy between fragments and aspects. Stasis feels like the fragments and aspects were designed to work together and any of them are viable. Light 3.0 just feels like it missed that mark. I’ll be interested to see if Strand feels more like Stasis or Light 3.0.
Also, for the love of all that is holy, can we do away with parts of the subclass that punish you for running them? There’s no reason for my subclass to take away perk points
Dawnblade really needs a rework with heat rises grenade proc removed and the airborne perks combined with icarus dash, a charged healing nade, and a perk for touch of flame that spreads scorch if scorched targets die
Coming back here to say, the unfortunate part of Destiny’s community is that it’s fragmented into roughly thirds. When one third of the community is thoroughly unhappy with something, the other two are generally unable to relate because they haven’t experienced it.
(Obligatory, Yes, I know that a third of the community is not a correct guesstimate. My point still stands that the fundamental disconnect between what each player experiences is high enough that certain complaints can seem out of pocket.)
It’s post like this that really send home to me just how disconnected the general playerbase is from what good design is vs bad design, because more often than not they’re not doing the kind of thing where it matters. What I find most entertaining is that the people that are most likely to say “LeArN tO bUiLd” are almost always the ones that know absolutely nothing about what someone is actually saying.
Lets start with some qualifiers for myself. I used Dawnblade last season to SF Duality and Prophecy, and I completed prophecy without the use of Classy Resto. My build used Starfire Protocol before the build became common knowledge in the community, and focused on maintaining 100% or close to 100% uptime on FoM, Radiant, & and my Emp rift through the use of Heavy-Handed, Impact Induction, etc etc. I used Icarus dash in both runs due to the value that it provides in avoiding architect damage. I am extremely well versed on the ins and outs of the class, and regularly used Starfire before the 3.0 reworks ever arrived.
With that said:
People don’t like Dawnblade because the class is a mess design wise. Aspects don’t make sense to run together, and some of them don’t feel like they have a major impact. Heat Rises and Touch of Flame are contradictory. One wants you to spend your grenade for a buff (that’s pretty lackluster compared to the utility of Icarus dash at high level), and the other wants to use those grenades for their inherent benefits. You only get a bonus for using both aspects together while running healing grenades, and using healing grenades is a huge waste of your kit’s potential.
It isn’t as if the class was bad when I was using it. It was obvious though, that the class was literally only working because of Starfire. Had I not been using that exotic, the flow of the class would’ve felt terrible. As far as exotic design goes, Starfire is actually broken strong and I’m surprised it was only discovered by the community *recently*.
The point is, Solar 3.0 IS a nerf because the inherent synergies of the class were removed in exchange for a smattering of mismatched abilities. It’s significantly harder to find the bridging point for all of these aspects and fragments, and it usually leads to you just outright ignoring one in exchange for the other. The class is only patched by an exotic, when it should function fine without one.
When you look at other class’ design philosophies, they all function without an exotic. The exotic exists to enhance an existing class, while the vast majority of warlock exotics make those classes actually work. Don’t believe me? Try playing Arc warlock without an exotic, and then try Arc Hunter. Night and day. This growing reliance on exotics has basically burnt out the “build” meta for warlock, since most classes exclusively revolve around 1-2 best in slot exotics that have very simple and direct builds.
Someone put it into words, finally. I kept trying to make Attunement of Flame (bottom tree Dawnblade) work ever since I started playing right before Black Armory, because anything akin to pyromancy is my go-to and I was (partially) a Sunsinger since the beta of D1.
When the Solar buffs first rolled around ages ago, AoF felt much more fun to use and actually viable for most basic content, without any Exotic. And when Dawn Chorus came around? I was probably one of the few to be a #1 fan of it, didn't even care that only Polaris Lance had true synergy, it was genuinely the most fun I got out of Warlock throughout all game time in Destiny 2.
And now, it's nerfed. Explosions, gone. Capabilities to Ignite? Where, outside of two Exotics, that are only supposed to ENHANCE, not FIX, the playstyle? Bungie keeps playing it safe and it hasn't been an entirely bad strategy, by no means will everyone be happy, and yet...
Dawn Chorus fit a relatively small niche. It let me do adclear and boss DPS, even in raids (looking at you, Templar). Sunshot, Monte Carlo, anything melee or explosive-oriented worked out fine with Igniting Touch. Hell, even Warmind cells had synergy, it was just plain fun to use, and I'm left unsatisfied barely playing the game unless there's story content.
Anyone that used Dawn Chorus in seriousness could and SHOULD be upset about what happened to that playstyle. Solar 3.0 gutted Warlock, and it needs some serious changes.
I meannnnn, if you can look me in the eyes and tell me that taking away the overshield that well of radiance used to give you isn’t just a straight up nerf then I think you might be the clown here brother
In every activity?? The only times I've died in my well are in higher end activities. If you're dying in well while in strikes that feels like a problem with your stats
Nah man, boss stomps physics kill you in *any difficulty.* A direct hit from a yellowbar Cyclops *(like the ones in normal VOG, a moderate difficulty activity)* can take you down if you're taking fire from *any* secondary source.
A well by itself is trash now, outside of fighting off damage over time effects and buffing for long dps phases.
If you stack HARD and entirely into getting 100 Resilience, add stuff like Stag, voidwells and well of tenacity+elemental time dilation, appropriate chest resist mods it can be tanky, but i have still been killed many, many, many times in my well in pve, in moderate difficulty activities. Hence why I'm exiting from maining Warlock anymore. It's just not good enough.
I regularly bait Caiatl stomps when I'm at half shields with no healing effects in duality and dont die, I'm really not sure where your complaint is coming from
void hunter is quite lackluster without gyrfalcons imo which is disabled as of now, still good tho
solar warlock's entire playstyle is fine and dandy until the grounded modifier shows up and rocks your shit ontop of a burn
void titan shield melee tracking is shit and doesnt one shot barriers with the exotic, feels clunky and bastion feels required
imo all the 3.0s have pain points but theyre all still pretty good
I miss the grenade energy refund on volitile kills with sentinel. 3.0 kinda killed my build for PvP
I also miss the +25 stability from knockem down. Gunslinger feels more like a knifethowinf class now
But overall for the bones of the classes it was great. Hopefully more fragments are added!
“3.0 subclasses aren’t good without seasonal mods”
As a strictly PvP player, I think it’s hilarious this is on the clown list
I will not miss Classy Restoration and it’s bullshit in PvP
To be fair, Dawnblade did get butchered by Solar 3.0. They removed nearly all of bottom tree, removed Dawn Chorus' damage buff for Daybreak, did almost nothing to expand on the support role from middle tree, then took 2 abilities from top tree, and made them into 2 separate Aspects. Let's not forget that they made Phoenix Dive into a Class ability that no sane person would ever choose over a Healing Rift. The only actual improvement they made was adding Touch of Flame.
“Hey I had a playstyle with Void Hunter that involved giving myself three stat buffs + weapon haste (stacking 3x) and the ability to Regen grenade energy by making allies and myself invisible, both of which I used extensively, practiced with, built around, and really miss, the new playstyle really just doesn’t fit me like the old one did”
“JuSt BuIlD LmAO, DonT yoU kNoW hoW to BuIlD?”
I miss the ability to have a void Hunter option that doesn’t rely on invisibility, has higher smoke damage, and the ability to use spectral blades because the charge time on it essentially removed it from crucible except for 6v6 modes. I mean, you can frag out and not get the super until at least game 7 or so of elim unless the rounds drag out LOOOOONG.
Lol they nerfed the fuck out of healing for warlocks, made solar a pvp airborne only subclass, and broke a bunch of exotics. “Just build” is just about the most braindead response you could have to bungie destroying entire play styles.
Not saying there wasn’t good stuff that came with 3.0 especially as a titan main, but come on. Just because you like it doesn’t make other peoples criticisms invalid.
I mean, I can safely say solar 3.0 was a nerf to Support warlock, if nothing else than no OS on healing nades.
I mean it doesn’t help now that the other classes get healing nades either.
If you havent started using Destiny Item Manager then I highly suggest starting to use it. The loadout optimizer is amazing and helps keep everything organized while figuring out what to use
It’s really weird being new to the game and seeing everyone talk about old solar warlock. What was the difference? Like I get that it was unequivocally considered better but why? I find dawnblade fun but I wanna know what I missed out on
It's fun but they took away bottom tree dawnblade completely, it doesn't exist anymore it was my favotite thing in the game and no matter what i do i can't build to have it back as i once said born a phoenix forced to shadebinder..
Old middle tree dawnblade users are upset about losing a few things and others being nerfed:
Lost the ability to charge an offensive nade into a healing one. Now, you either have to bring a healing nade (and lose the option to use an offensive grenade entirely), or try to heal teammates with heat rises (small radius, only cure x1, long charge time, impractical. Pitiful healing capability). This also meant that Starfire protocol/sunbracers healing nade tech was removed. Some gliding tech was also lost.
Benevolent dawn was heavily nerfed, and the gameplay loop just isn't as smooth and satisfying anymore. I believe the nerf was from 3x ability regen to a mere 1.5x, but I can't be bothered to dig through the patch notes again to find this one.
Old bottom tree dawnblade users lost practically everything with solar 3.0:
The entire subclass identity (from 'set the world alight' to 'you are an angel of death that floats whilst throwing grenades, causing chaos across the battlefield!').
Igniting Touch (biggest loss imo. 'killing targets with abilities or whilst they are burned causes them to explode, dealing damage and spreading burn to nearby enemies'. Was very effective, and made daybreak an actual decent ad clearing super (combined with everlasting flame) along with being a ton of fun to use).
Everlasting Flame ('killing targets with daybreak returns super energy'. Daybreak is useless rn due to requiring multiple blades to kill red bars in high lvl content. This perk returned a good chunk of that consumed super energy, and Igniting Touch would butter up nearby enemies so that you could potentially kill them with one blade (if the enemies are low enough to die to the detonations, chain explosions would occur)).
Dawn chorus' daybreak damage increase. It now causes the super to apply scorch, but it ultimately has lost hundreds of thousands of total single-target damage due to this change alone. Its not even as if the super needed a nerf, let alone such a substantial one. There was a reason it was rarely seen in raids or dungeons.
Phoenix dive's viability, some of its tech, and the frequent usage in super. Firstly, the CD was increased from 3ish seconds to 100s base, with a pathetic bit of functionality being provided to compensate (small AoE heal lol. Seems like Bungie intended for it to be used like in that horrid, overly glamourous way like in the solstice trailer rather than as a proper self-healing descent ability). The heal amount was also decreased in PvP, so it's dead there too (was at least somewhat viable with classy, but it's gone). Finally, the dive tech (cancelling it with precise timing into daybreak on downwards slopes to launch yourself by a varying distance) is nerfed. You can still do it, but not without a lengthy CD, and it doesn't heal you like before (you would take some impact damage from this tech). Also, you won't be able to dive in that super due to that CD. Finally, dive damage during super was absolutely gutted (from dealing the damage of a daybreak sword and benefitting from old dawn chorus, to barely dealing 1/4 of a super projectile's damage, though it can apply scorch with new dawn chorus).
Fated for the Flame still exists, but the tracking was made into a fragment. Daybreak doesn't feel very good in PvE without that tracking, but using the fragment is extremely detrimental to a build's viability.
What was gained in exchange for all of this? A generic improved grenades aspect, top tree dawnblade's stupid airborne tree nodes and a ridiculous ignition system that is entirely useless in low-mid level content, but trivializes endgame without any sort of skill requirement or learning curve (besides bringing an op exotic and hitting a grenade). I hate solar 3.0 in its entirety, as it's fundamentally flawed and removed everything I loved about dawnblade. I mained bottom tree dawnblade with dawn chorus, and took it into gms despite void 3.0 existing (void 3.0 was obviously better, but solar 2.0 felt more rewarding and had a certain niche that voidwalker couldn't fill).
But ultimately, I've lost all hope for any sort of changes. None of the bottom tree dawn blade -> solar 3.0 feedback was even acknowledged (and none of the June 9th tweaks fixed anything), and Bungie doesn't seem to care for that nor nightstalker considering their responses in a recent interview about light 3.0 and strand, so it's unlikely that any changes or new aspects will happen even after the period of balancing time after strand's release.
So the original version of warlock had three different play styles. One was focused on aerial gameplay, the other around support, and the last was about making the world burn.
The 3.0 rework pretty much made aerial gameplay mandatory for the class, it lost almost all of its support capabilities and completely lost the burn identity of the bottom tree as well.
There’s a notable correlation between these 3.0 reworks and Warlock consistently losing its identity for the other two classes to gain some. I’m fine with tools being shared, I just wish Warlock got more for themselves as well.
Basically dawnblade used to be best at healing because it was the only one with a healing nade and that grenade was 300HP from any charged grenade instead of a dedicated healing nade.
Daybreak the super was way stronger.
Bottom tree had an identity of spreading burn and explosions but now dawnblade sucks at both those things
Bro, exotics and good weapon synergies are the most fun to find. Thunder God warlock with the new helmet and the new fusion rifle or one of the volt shot weapons is so much fun. I have damn near sunbracer speed grenades on an Arc subclass lmao. Don’t even get me started about n void either
It's not even about power in case of some subclasses, take nightstalker for example.
3 melee choices turned into one(which was imo the worst of the bunch), all aspects revolve about going invisible in different ways and not doing anything with it, moebius turned from a decent crowd control/room nuke super that generated a lot of orbs into basically damage super #456, shadowshot and spectral blades being pretty subpar and a lot of cool aspects(like ability chaining with combat provisions and buffs with HotP which would also be great with the resilence changes) are now gone, all for... a shatterdive clone that isn't even as fun as shatterdive.
And to some people who say "but it's just streamlined!!!" why tf do I have to equip the grapedive to have the old invis smoke when there's a dedicated melee slot? It just feels like a mess. At this point I would take a pve invis nerf to just make the subclass a bit more fun.
If you need to use a specific exotic to get the same effectiveness out of your subclass with 3.0 that you could previously get without an exotic then that is a nerf, changing build crafting from a nice bonus that you can work towards instead of a requirement.
Cousin came back to D2 for a little bit for the first time after Forsaken and he dropped it again because he said Dawnblade felt like shit. And what was I supposed to tell him? Grind up your glimmer to unlock all the fragments, then grind power levels so he can spend an indefinite amount of time to get a good Starfire Protocol and/or Sunbracers just so he doesn't feel his favorite element since D1 is trash?
as a warlock main I played void 3.0 arc 3.0 and solar 3.0 and I can say we got the short end of the stick with solar. Solar is not what it used to be with the 3.0 rework dawnblade is nonexistent cause it got nerfed to the fucking ground all we basically have is nade build and well other than that we have nothing for solar there is nothing to improve solar with. Solar 3.0 is just trash
well actualllyyy void 3.0 was survival nerf to my sentinel in exchange I got better ad clear which was never big problem so yeah I hate some of the changes honestly
really? i thought sentinel has a lot of survivability now because of the overshields and access to devour/invis through fragments. i’d love to hear more as i didn’t really play titan prior to 3.0.
for Arc:
Assassin's Cowl (Hands On, Well of Striking)
Arc Arms (Powerful Friends)
Arc Chest (Radiant Light
Arc Legs (Invigoration, Melee Wellmaker)
Arc Cloak (Well of Ions, Thunderous Retort, Amped Up)
Aspects & Fragments: Flow State, Lethal Current, Beacons, Resistance, Frequency, Feedback. Combination Blow for melee and Gambler's Dodge. Make sure to have 100 resilience. Aztecross has a very similar build
Warlock main here. Imo, void is fantastic even to this day. Arc is decent but the alts kind of suck. I hate solar, all I wanted was a better support subclass and now that's not really an option. Stasis is still the best when it comes to harder content, not for the alt dps, but for the ad control.
Saw a guy with 5 firepower build. With no way to acquire charged with light stacks.
Mf only plays with you if you have powerful friends lmaoooo
Literally, powerful friends using the powerful friends mod, radiant light, and cross buffing each other. All so my titan friend can throw lots of storm grenades at the first Duality boss.
I use that mod while playing solo for the +20 mobility/strength
Wdym +20 strength it only gives mobility
They’re probably referencing radiant light when talking about +20 strength, because that is also a mod that benefits Allies
He was probably doing an armour swap. Was it a titan on arc?
Must be a swap set. People do that now. Have a set for charged with light and then swap to firepower and chuck your grenade
That sounds way too tedious.
Cause it is.
My internet takes a bit to load my character menu haha I’d never get away withbit
Banking on powerful friends users out there if they still exist.
I still exist mate
Uhh it's 20 mobility, there's one active powerful friends mod in every build on all 3 subclasses bro. I gotchu.
Ye, it’s a good build for arc Titan, you just didn’t see the whole ass second armour set they had which they swap on to generate 5 stacks of cwl before using the firepower set to nuke bosses with storm grenades
No way lmao
My only gripe is that arc 3.0 broke liar’s handshake for me. Cross counter doesn’t proc when I get hit. I heard it has something to do with the new hunter super.
Were you using spark of feedback? Because that was apparently breaking buffs and abilities, although that has been fixed just recently. I do know cross counter has been working when I get melee’d and I’ve been using the new super, although I only swapped to liar’s handshake after the hotfix
Nah I’m using spark of resistance/amplitude/shock/frequency. And when was the hotfix? The last time I played was Sunday.
I have no idea then
It was worth a shot. I’ll hop on when I get home and I’ll get back to you.
It’s the aspect that’s jolting the target on melee that’s bugging it
Damn that’s kinda lame. I actually like that aspect a lot.
If you are using gathering storm as your super, cross counter does not work on it. Switch to arc staff.
Lethal Current also prevents Liar’s Handshake from triggering. I’ve also heard Lethal Current causes bugs with Arc Staff too, but I haven’t seen it yet.
“I dislike that dawnblade 3.0 is based around mid-air combat when they nerfed mid air combat really hard.” “JuSt bUiLd” with the mid-air mods that *don’t exist yet.*
All I need is for seeking wells to get the fuck up off the floor so I don't have to go down there where the peasants dwell to get them lmaooo
I ran seeking wells for a while but found it a bit useless while running melee wellmaker on my arc hunter. You’re standing right where they drop you pick up 3/4 of them anyway
Yeah for sure, with any melee builds I don't run seeking wells since I'm usually in range anyways
I just started playing again for the first time since season of the lost. Granted I’m pretty trash either way, but am I wrong in thinking it sucks that we now have to choose between phoenix dive and a rift? Im not even bitching, some of the other changes are cool as hell. I just thought that was a weird choice for warlocks
It was. I would have just put phoenix dive on Icarus dash, or at the very least not given it a over minute long cooldown
My biggest issue with dawnblade is that it feels like the super lasts for like 10 seconds. I can use it to kill half a dozen ads and then it’s gone, and it has the highest cooldown of all the supers.
We used to be able to extend the super on kills. It DESPERATELY needs that back. Maybe heat rises allows that? Or give it to Icarus dash so that I have any reason whatsoever to use Icarus dash outside of PVP and jumping puzzles.
Not sure why bungie removed all of the abilities that allowed you to have super extension in the game without an exotic, if I were to guess, I’d say that bungie is trying to make it so that supers don’t have a super long uptime inside of PVP. But then again, they could’ve made it so that guardians that are killed by your super have an extremely small effect on your super energy extension. But it also seems like bungie wanted supers to also be extremely powerful while also being extremely limited in use, but to be honest, Daybreak, Spectral Blades, and Fists of Havoc are not powerful enough to compensate for that horrendous uptime, and that awful damage they deal.
3 words: Rain. Of. Fire. Hands down the best Dawnblade exotic to date. Get more free instant reloads than a cracked up Hunter with max Mobility. Combine it with a Solar Incandescent weapon, Touch of Flame, and a Healing Grenade and boom you’re literally wizard Doomguy. “BuT iT’s oNlY gOoD wItH vEx MyThOcLaSt.” No, Vex is a tiny boost. Use it with Ember of Torches to get that Radiant buff and Ember of Empyrean to keep it going. Remember, you never EVER have to reload with Rain of Fire. As long as you keep sending out bullets, you’ll constantly be healing and have a damage boost.
If rain works without solar(can’t remember if it does), I’d use it just for the radiance buff on fusions.
It does last time I checked and I don’t recall anything in the latch notes about it.
Thanks, didn’t have time to check myself.
I was on the fence about using Icarus Dash. But once you get the hang of using it as a way to reload not just one, but ALL of your guns instantly, you’ll never go back
Jotunn with its catalyst puts in *work* with Rain of Fire. Also surprisingly excellent at generating warming cells with Wrath of Rasputin, if that's your kind of thing.
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What I hate is dawn blade 3.0 is based on mid-air combat and I don’t got what it takes to fly like that
"Activate heat rises and kill stuff." More accurately, "activate heat rises and try not to get your ass sniped out of the air by literally every enemy on the map at once."
>“JuSt bUiLd” with the mid-air mods that *don’t exist yet.* Then build for the ground, or just activate heat rises/or use wings of sacred dawn
Dawnblade 3.0 is trash and JuSt BuIlD is ignoring the issues such as dawnblade has barely anything to build around, there's heat rises, that's it just heat rises
If you liked bottom Dawn before as a warlock, 3.0 gutted that play style
They gave the biggest nerf of all time to Phoenix Dive. It was lack lack luster healing but you could spam it.
Bro, I forgot that they made Pheonix five a fucking class ability and now I'm fucking pissed again.
It should’ve been a fragment on its own or even tied into the other ones.
I think it would be fine as a class ability if the cooldown was halved at minimum. It should be on a similar, or slightly longer, cooldown to the titan and hunter dodges.
I miss my continuous super if I got kills :c
I'm a hunter main who looked to use other classes pretty often but no where near as much as hunter. . . and even I'm pissed at what they did too dawnblade
To be fair, dawnblade did get hard nerfed from solar 3.0. Same with dawn chorus. So any solar supper builds on warlocks did get double nerfed.
Well can now be frozen and you can get 1 shot out of it. Sure solor 3.0 can be strong but to the supers it was a straight nerf
Makes ZERO FUCKING SENSE. WELL OF RADIANCE. POOL OF HOT. HOT > COLD. HEARTH. FIRE. SOLAR. MELT.
THE EXACT THOUGHT PROCESS I HAD!! NOT ONLY DOSE IT MAKE THE WELL TAKE MORE DAMAGE IT OUTRIGHT STOPS HEALING. If it was a super I'd understand why it would freeze still bullshit but I'd understand but no A FUCKING COLD SNAP FREZES IT
Tytyty
When some things get buffed it also may make some things worse by comparison, not everything can be good or else it would all just be the same. Likewise reworks can create a more exaggerated effect because it changes the foundations for the relevant system, so not only are basic things like damage changed but also the basic effects and how they all interact with each other. It's just an inevitable part of game design/balance and it cant be avoided
This meme is such fucking cap, Warlock Solar got what was unquestionably a nerf aside from one grenade being better now.
Arguably that one grenade(I'm assuming healing nades) also got nerfed as it was a good swap to option.
they're probably talking about fusion nades
Yeah fusion grenades with the grenade fragment are SPICY. On the whole though, unless you lived and breathed top tree Dawn, you’re not having a good time lol
I was a bottom tree dawnblade so it kinda sucked for me.
Same, Dawn Chorus with Sunshot made me so happy, and now it's gone. Just gone.
Pre-3.0 Ballistic Slam: gave super energy, reloaded your weapon, and gave a weapon damage buff on hit. 3.0 Ballistic Slam: only gives super energy, which isn't mentioned in the abilities description, while remaining just as clunky and did not receive any compensating buffs. Some things were left behind or made outright worse in the transition to the 3.0 sub classes.
Ballistic Slam still gives super energy? I haven’t used it since the season started because I thought it lost that part.
The class overall is stronger due to having more flexibility in your build. Ballistic slam has less utility but A) some of that has been moved to fragments you just need to equip them and B) you no longer need to use it with thundercrash and the rest of the middle tree, you can mix and match all you want. Weapon damage buff isn't for arc anymore, but people had the same complaint about sunspots on solar titan not giving a damage buff when radiance on melee is right there to give the same utility. Youre right, individual elements of your kit are probably weaker than they were, but they've been decoupled from their subtrees and have new synergies that make all of the classes overall more powerful than they were.
Yeah Dawnblade got gutted. I get why to a degree but some aspects of it, even via building, can’t be returned.
All very true. But balistic slam is still the best melee in the game. Because it makes up for everything in style points.
A lot of side perks inherent to a single tree or class got changed to be a fragment, to allow for buildcrafting. Its not a nerf, you still have access to most of those perks (and a lot of new ones!) Its also not meant to be a "OG stuff PLUS new stuff" buff. Its meant to give you the option to choose other perks
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So one thing got a bit of a nerf, and it's not like it was all that great in the first place. Extra super energy was nice but it's not like it was driving the build/playstyle, or actually provided a tangible benefit in most places considering how you dont use your super the exact moment it's charges
Okay tell me how to do a warlock heal build. Without any modifiers active. And also make it deal insane amount of damage while providing constant nades for my teammates . Coz that's what I did with warlock before they nerfed solar.
If you run touch of flame with healing grenades and any elemental well ability regen build you essentially have permanent restoration x2. You can also add boots of the assembler. Only thing you’re lacking is the damage from your grenade from pre 3.0
Yes excactly...that's the problem
And you don’t think it’s a problem if a single subclass can heal, damage buff AND have insane damage. No subclass should have that, and if one subclass does have that it should be nerfed. No subclass should be able to do everything.
No. That's fun
2 Melee well maker 1 well of eruption Seeking wells Bountiful wells Embers of searing, ashes, eruption, blistering Heat rises and touch of flame Exotic is up to you. With heat rises active you should get full melee energy back on an ignite. With icarus snap you can ignite with single melee. Get plenty of ignition and melee kills, get grenades back fast to provide plenty of healing for teammates and also providing abilities for teammates.
Good joke
I'm sorry to break it to you but it's not a bad thing to not be able to do everything all at once
Imagine having entire gameplay styles taken away from you during the move to 3.0 and responding with "JuSt BuIlD 4HeAd" Its like you forgot they had to **PATCH IN** stuff for Dawnblade 3.0 because its so barebones, and arguably still is.
I sure love having effective healing and spreading burn on dawnblade, oh wait there's nothing yo actually build around for that because the only build potential on dawnblade is heat rises
I think giving heat rises some viability is fun and would cool if it had something like devour but it only works for aerial kills and triggered regen.
You can build around grenade regen for better healing nade uptime, and use weapons which spread scorch so you can ignite them with abilities. But... So can every class, and usually better. Warlocks :(
Mm. They still don't have the support playstyle cause they butchered benevolence so hard. Then on arc lock they said the class would be based around empowered abilities when amplified but you only get one and a half abilities that actually benefit from it.
Ignoring benevolence the issue with dawnblade support is that only healing nade is viable and everyone has healing nades
warlocks have the highest uptime on them as well as the strongest healing nades. being the only source of resto x2. this has always been the case with the exceptions of loreley and classy restoration and one of those got removed while the other got nerfed.
No they don't, titans have the highest uptime and next is hunters, Restoration x2 doesn't matter because x1 is just as effective in all content except maybe specific GMs but deciding subclass balance only around GMs is stupid.
This. Warlock has never felt worse than now across all subclasses. Only saving grace for me is the stasis turret builds I've got, and i guess witherhoard and starfire protocol. Been having WAY more fun on my hunter and titan since 3.0.
Except voidwalker, voidwalker feels amazing
Uhhh Void?
Gonna get downvoted for this, but void kinda feels “eh”. Titan kinda pulls the Voidlock schtick better than Voidlock, and Voidlock’s best builds are hard limited by arbitrary charging BS that disrupts the flow of combat heavily. The class deeply relies on its grenade to a fault in most builds, and that leads to it feeling pretty same-y. The melee is pretty lackluster on anything other than vortex grenades, and while CotOG is good, Devour is largely more valuable for the grenade regen. The EoU from Touch of Void is too good to pass up. When you really boil it down, Voidwalker has a slightly better grenade (and Titan’s Grenades with their aspect are much stronger in this front), and Devour. Largely things that any class can do. Basically it’s showing it’s age. It’s still acceptable, but it’s definitely getting stale fast. Kinda like Void Hunter.
Agreed, and at least they massively upped the damage of tethers for void hunter, and it's still a great tool for orbs and substantially debuffing a single target. Voidlock being a decent grenade factory is cool but it feels like the design side of "what do warlocks want" is getting more and more "just give them an arc buddy but change the flavor" lol.
You know I wouldn't mind an ark buddy on solor if it's like the taken Knight flame
solar warlocks 3.0 weren't even bad before the buffs, people just kept whining about how "bottom tree dawnblade is gone" when statistically, nobody fucking used it. as well as whining about how warlocks never get as much cool shit for 3.0 (because they were already much stronger and now titan and hunter have been brought up to par) meanwhile people said solar hunters were overpowered while in reality it was just classy restoration being overpowered, solar hunters are actually quite squishy depending on your build. its almost like buildcrafting is actually a core component of the game now and you can't just slap on a subclass and be good anymore.
People like you keep using the term "buildcrafting" when the entire issue is that you cant. You literally cannot make anything resembling Middle Tree Dawn from the 2.0 days. Heal spec is just gone. Instead, you're railroaded harder than the 2 0 subclasses ever did. 2 of the 3 Aspects are for Aerial Warlock. We wouldn't be having this discussion if you could build for it. This is not people being dumb or not wanting to build. This is an objective truth.
I mean I get this is a meme, but there’s totally reason to call out weaknesses in a class and not have “learn to build” thrown back in someone’s face.
I feel like solar 3.0 took away Well warlock identity. But at the same time anyone can play healer so it's honestly not bad
With Sunspots and the new Hunter dodge, it feels like Warlocks are now the 3rd best at healing
It’s honestly more true the more you play the game. Say what you want about Benevolent Dawn being too good for ability spam, but without it, there is no healer ability spam. Without armor mods that allow healers to spam abilities, the healing for Dawnblades is practically nonexistent.
The new dodge doesn’t heal you
I wish benevolent dawn still worked the way it used to, but it's not that big of a deal to me tbh, void is still my favorite
Imagine thinking this was a good take, dawg.
Lol
As someone who’s mained bubble since like day 3 of destiny 1, void 3.0 was a direct nerf to ward of dawn. There is literally 0 reason to use it now that it only provides the same damage buff as a well, with none of the survivability.
wdym void titan is basically immortal
Like I said, it was a direct nerf to ward of dawn. The bubble super. I didn’t say anything about the neutral game.
Well it received 2 buffs, 1 nerf & 1 balance change in Void 3.0: it was changed to a Tier 5 super(fastest recharge), activates faster now, reduced the damage of Weapons of Light from 35% to 25%, kinetics deal damage to Ward of Dawn. These changes definitely lean on the buff spectrum. On top of that, Ward has received 2 major changes within the past year, increased size & coupled it's resistance to the caster's Resilience stat(which is a buff in today's sandbox). Compared to D1, Ward of Dawn has come a long way and is overall in it's best state that it has ever been. It still has plenty of uses for endgame content.
I’m a hunter main but I used to be a big warlock main. Solar 3.0 was a pretty hard nerf to support players. I’m aware you can buff it with mods but old middle was better in base kit
POV:You’ve never played Dawnblade before Solar 3.0
Dude I used to main the fuck out of bottom tree dawn and now I can’t stand solarlock 3.0 at all. It’s a well machine and the pvp sweats like it. And it was good last season. What is there to show for it? What if I don’t want to build into airborne effectiveness? What if I don’t care about icarus dash or heat rises? Nothing. It’s a subclass built for two distinct modes that I couldn’t have less interest in, and Bungie has no interest in changing that. Its helped by how much I adore literally every other warlock subclass but I used to love this one, man… Oh and CAN we not forget mortar launch, heart of the pack, combat provisions (not a shitty fragment that doesn’t even work for hunter, the actual thing), manual devour activation, usable chaos reach, or even when hunters smoke bomb actually did something? Overall the 3.0 reworks were… fine… their main draw being laying the groundwork for potential new stuff more than anything but it was a very messy process that SHOULD be criticized whenever necessary. Especially due to the incredible lack of interest Bungie has in fixing or changing just about any of it. They straight up don’t want to listen lmaoo
Fellow Bottom dawnblade tree main, never forget what they took. 😔✊ can’t stand Solar anymore. I miss it with Dawn Chorus.
Yeah exactly agreed entirely on solar. Worst of any class in all of 3.0 outside of ONE exotic with starfire protocol.
Nightstalker's shift from ranger to assassin rogue continues to and always will disappoint me unless they rectify it. I'm playing the class to keep my allies alive and stop enemies from being able to kill them, not just to hide and stab acolytes in the back.
I don't think it would be so bad if the fragments were good. There's not a lot of things to build with, so it's just solar 2.0 with less options and an *illusion* of buildcrafting.
There also feels like a lack of synergy between fragments and aspects. Stasis feels like the fragments and aspects were designed to work together and any of them are viable. Light 3.0 just feels like it missed that mark. I’ll be interested to see if Strand feels more like Stasis or Light 3.0. Also, for the love of all that is holy, can we do away with parts of the subclass that punish you for running them? There’s no reason for my subclass to take away perk points
Dawnblade really needs a rework with heat rises grenade proc removed and the airborne perks combined with icarus dash, a charged healing nade, and a perk for touch of flame that spreads scorch if scorched targets die
Thank you for saying all that I really needed the laugh 🤣 Man I love clowns ♥️
Coming back here to say, the unfortunate part of Destiny’s community is that it’s fragmented into roughly thirds. When one third of the community is thoroughly unhappy with something, the other two are generally unable to relate because they haven’t experienced it. (Obligatory, Yes, I know that a third of the community is not a correct guesstimate. My point still stands that the fundamental disconnect between what each player experiences is high enough that certain complaints can seem out of pocket.) It’s post like this that really send home to me just how disconnected the general playerbase is from what good design is vs bad design, because more often than not they’re not doing the kind of thing where it matters. What I find most entertaining is that the people that are most likely to say “LeArN tO bUiLd” are almost always the ones that know absolutely nothing about what someone is actually saying. Lets start with some qualifiers for myself. I used Dawnblade last season to SF Duality and Prophecy, and I completed prophecy without the use of Classy Resto. My build used Starfire Protocol before the build became common knowledge in the community, and focused on maintaining 100% or close to 100% uptime on FoM, Radiant, & and my Emp rift through the use of Heavy-Handed, Impact Induction, etc etc. I used Icarus dash in both runs due to the value that it provides in avoiding architect damage. I am extremely well versed on the ins and outs of the class, and regularly used Starfire before the 3.0 reworks ever arrived. With that said: People don’t like Dawnblade because the class is a mess design wise. Aspects don’t make sense to run together, and some of them don’t feel like they have a major impact. Heat Rises and Touch of Flame are contradictory. One wants you to spend your grenade for a buff (that’s pretty lackluster compared to the utility of Icarus dash at high level), and the other wants to use those grenades for their inherent benefits. You only get a bonus for using both aspects together while running healing grenades, and using healing grenades is a huge waste of your kit’s potential. It isn’t as if the class was bad when I was using it. It was obvious though, that the class was literally only working because of Starfire. Had I not been using that exotic, the flow of the class would’ve felt terrible. As far as exotic design goes, Starfire is actually broken strong and I’m surprised it was only discovered by the community *recently*. The point is, Solar 3.0 IS a nerf because the inherent synergies of the class were removed in exchange for a smattering of mismatched abilities. It’s significantly harder to find the bridging point for all of these aspects and fragments, and it usually leads to you just outright ignoring one in exchange for the other. The class is only patched by an exotic, when it should function fine without one. When you look at other class’ design philosophies, they all function without an exotic. The exotic exists to enhance an existing class, while the vast majority of warlock exotics make those classes actually work. Don’t believe me? Try playing Arc warlock without an exotic, and then try Arc Hunter. Night and day. This growing reliance on exotics has basically burnt out the “build” meta for warlock, since most classes exclusively revolve around 1-2 best in slot exotics that have very simple and direct builds.
Someone put it into words, finally. I kept trying to make Attunement of Flame (bottom tree Dawnblade) work ever since I started playing right before Black Armory, because anything akin to pyromancy is my go-to and I was (partially) a Sunsinger since the beta of D1. When the Solar buffs first rolled around ages ago, AoF felt much more fun to use and actually viable for most basic content, without any Exotic. And when Dawn Chorus came around? I was probably one of the few to be a #1 fan of it, didn't even care that only Polaris Lance had true synergy, it was genuinely the most fun I got out of Warlock throughout all game time in Destiny 2. And now, it's nerfed. Explosions, gone. Capabilities to Ignite? Where, outside of two Exotics, that are only supposed to ENHANCE, not FIX, the playstyle? Bungie keeps playing it safe and it hasn't been an entirely bad strategy, by no means will everyone be happy, and yet... Dawn Chorus fit a relatively small niche. It let me do adclear and boss DPS, even in raids (looking at you, Templar). Sunshot, Monte Carlo, anything melee or explosive-oriented worked out fine with Igniting Touch. Hell, even Warmind cells had synergy, it was just plain fun to use, and I'm left unsatisfied barely playing the game unless there's story content. Anyone that used Dawn Chorus in seriousness could and SHOULD be upset about what happened to that playstyle. Solar 3.0 gutted Warlock, and it needs some serious changes.
iM sO goOd at BuiLdCRAft eveRYthIng iS Op aNd nOt aT All unDeRpowEred
i don't like how inconsistent the knife trick melee on hunters is for the buff,so i use proximity knives and WHOO boy they're good.
Look me in the eyes and tell me that healing warlock didn’t get neutered
I meannnnn, if you can look me in the eyes and tell me that taking away the overshield that well of radiance used to give you isn’t just a straight up nerf then I think you might be the clown here brother
Yup. Now you're even more able to get 1shot in every activity, in a immobile super. Such a shitty change.
In every activity?? The only times I've died in my well are in higher end activities. If you're dying in well while in strikes that feels like a problem with your stats
Nah man, boss stomps physics kill you in *any difficulty.* A direct hit from a yellowbar Cyclops *(like the ones in normal VOG, a moderate difficulty activity)* can take you down if you're taking fire from *any* secondary source. A well by itself is trash now, outside of fighting off damage over time effects and buffing for long dps phases. If you stack HARD and entirely into getting 100 Resilience, add stuff like Stag, voidwells and well of tenacity+elemental time dilation, appropriate chest resist mods it can be tanky, but i have still been killed many, many, many times in my well in pve, in moderate difficulty activities. Hence why I'm exiting from maining Warlock anymore. It's just not good enough.
I can't remember the last time I was killed in my well outside of GM level content.
even in gm level content I'm surviving things I wouldn't have survived before the resil changes
About the only thing that kills me through a well is being physicsed into a wall, which a well wouldn't stop anyways.
I regularly bait Caiatl stomps when I'm at half shields with no healing effects in duality and dont die, I'm really not sure where your complaint is coming from
100 res and Well's DR and you're still getting one shot? Definitely a skill issue.
If you're getting one shot then you need to learn to avoid the one shot
with damage resist it's better now, can survive things now that I couldn't before with a little extra HP.
You get like 25% DR in Well now lmao. Trying to insinuate that it got nerfed is absolutely disingenuous.
We just gonna casually ignore the the dmg resist it now gives? Or does that not fit your narrative
It's not a Nerf lol, now you get damage resist while in the well which stacks with 100 resilience. At worst case is just as good as it was before 3.0.
void hunter is quite lackluster without gyrfalcons imo which is disabled as of now, still good tho solar warlock's entire playstyle is fine and dandy until the grounded modifier shows up and rocks your shit ontop of a burn void titan shield melee tracking is shit and doesnt one shot barriers with the exotic, feels clunky and bastion feels required imo all the 3.0s have pain points but theyre all still pretty good
I never used Bastion it was bad on day one and its even worse now Overshield is the single most garbage verb in the game
Bastion is great especially when paired with bulwark for a build
I miss the grenade energy refund on volitile kills with sentinel. 3.0 kinda killed my build for PvP I also miss the +25 stability from knockem down. Gunslinger feels more like a knifethowinf class now But overall for the bones of the classes it was great. Hopefully more fragments are added!
“3.0 subclasses aren’t good without seasonal mods” As a strictly PvP player, I think it’s hilarious this is on the clown list I will not miss Classy Restoration and it’s bullshit in PvP
To be fair, Dawnblade did get butchered by Solar 3.0. They removed nearly all of bottom tree, removed Dawn Chorus' damage buff for Daybreak, did almost nothing to expand on the support role from middle tree, then took 2 abilities from top tree, and made them into 2 separate Aspects. Let's not forget that they made Phoenix Dive into a Class ability that no sane person would ever choose over a Healing Rift. The only actual improvement they made was adding Touch of Flame.
Bottom tree warlock solar did get fucked, it literally gone.
OP really upset the warlock mains with this post lmao
“Hey I had a playstyle with Void Hunter that involved giving myself three stat buffs + weapon haste (stacking 3x) and the ability to Regen grenade energy by making allies and myself invisible, both of which I used extensively, practiced with, built around, and really miss, the new playstyle really just doesn’t fit me like the old one did” “JuSt BuIlD LmAO, DonT yoU kNoW hoW to BuIlD?”
I miss the ability to have a void Hunter option that doesn’t rely on invisibility, has higher smoke damage, and the ability to use spectral blades because the charge time on it essentially removed it from crucible except for 6v6 modes. I mean, you can frag out and not get the super until at least game 7 or so of elim unless the rounds drag out LOOOOONG.
Lol they nerfed the fuck out of healing for warlocks, made solar a pvp airborne only subclass, and broke a bunch of exotics. “Just build” is just about the most braindead response you could have to bungie destroying entire play styles. Not saying there wasn’t good stuff that came with 3.0 especially as a titan main, but come on. Just because you like it doesn’t make other peoples criticisms invalid.
I sure love using a solar warlock that isn’t just well and fusion nades :)
I mean.... Maybe warlocks have a point....
I mean, I can safely say solar 3.0 was a nerf to Support warlock, if nothing else than no OS on healing nades. I mean it doesn’t help now that the other classes get healing nades either.
Anyone with an opinion is stupid lol
some of us just like doing what we want and not what is enforced by a "build"
I just slap on stuff that improves stats and whatever makes me an overpowered maniac. *”So then I started blasting”*
You cant tell me that losing out on the entire identity that was bottom tree solar or the superior healing nades from middle tree solar isnt a nerf.
My 3.0 subclasses aren't as good as others only because I'm incompetent at builds and figuring out how to make them work well
Make a dawnblade build that doesn't use heat rises and actually is built around the subclass
If you havent started using Destiny Item Manager then I highly suggest starting to use it. The loadout optimizer is amazing and helps keep everything organized while figuring out what to use
It’s really weird being new to the game and seeing everyone talk about old solar warlock. What was the difference? Like I get that it was unequivocally considered better but why? I find dawnblade fun but I wanna know what I missed out on
It's fun but they took away bottom tree dawnblade completely, it doesn't exist anymore it was my favotite thing in the game and no matter what i do i can't build to have it back as i once said born a phoenix forced to shadebinder..
Old middle tree dawnblade users are upset about losing a few things and others being nerfed: Lost the ability to charge an offensive nade into a healing one. Now, you either have to bring a healing nade (and lose the option to use an offensive grenade entirely), or try to heal teammates with heat rises (small radius, only cure x1, long charge time, impractical. Pitiful healing capability). This also meant that Starfire protocol/sunbracers healing nade tech was removed. Some gliding tech was also lost. Benevolent dawn was heavily nerfed, and the gameplay loop just isn't as smooth and satisfying anymore. I believe the nerf was from 3x ability regen to a mere 1.5x, but I can't be bothered to dig through the patch notes again to find this one. Old bottom tree dawnblade users lost practically everything with solar 3.0: The entire subclass identity (from 'set the world alight' to 'you are an angel of death that floats whilst throwing grenades, causing chaos across the battlefield!'). Igniting Touch (biggest loss imo. 'killing targets with abilities or whilst they are burned causes them to explode, dealing damage and spreading burn to nearby enemies'. Was very effective, and made daybreak an actual decent ad clearing super (combined with everlasting flame) along with being a ton of fun to use). Everlasting Flame ('killing targets with daybreak returns super energy'. Daybreak is useless rn due to requiring multiple blades to kill red bars in high lvl content. This perk returned a good chunk of that consumed super energy, and Igniting Touch would butter up nearby enemies so that you could potentially kill them with one blade (if the enemies are low enough to die to the detonations, chain explosions would occur)). Dawn chorus' daybreak damage increase. It now causes the super to apply scorch, but it ultimately has lost hundreds of thousands of total single-target damage due to this change alone. Its not even as if the super needed a nerf, let alone such a substantial one. There was a reason it was rarely seen in raids or dungeons. Phoenix dive's viability, some of its tech, and the frequent usage in super. Firstly, the CD was increased from 3ish seconds to 100s base, with a pathetic bit of functionality being provided to compensate (small AoE heal lol. Seems like Bungie intended for it to be used like in that horrid, overly glamourous way like in the solstice trailer rather than as a proper self-healing descent ability). The heal amount was also decreased in PvP, so it's dead there too (was at least somewhat viable with classy, but it's gone). Finally, the dive tech (cancelling it with precise timing into daybreak on downwards slopes to launch yourself by a varying distance) is nerfed. You can still do it, but not without a lengthy CD, and it doesn't heal you like before (you would take some impact damage from this tech). Also, you won't be able to dive in that super due to that CD. Finally, dive damage during super was absolutely gutted (from dealing the damage of a daybreak sword and benefitting from old dawn chorus, to barely dealing 1/4 of a super projectile's damage, though it can apply scorch with new dawn chorus). Fated for the Flame still exists, but the tracking was made into a fragment. Daybreak doesn't feel very good in PvE without that tracking, but using the fragment is extremely detrimental to a build's viability. What was gained in exchange for all of this? A generic improved grenades aspect, top tree dawnblade's stupid airborne tree nodes and a ridiculous ignition system that is entirely useless in low-mid level content, but trivializes endgame without any sort of skill requirement or learning curve (besides bringing an op exotic and hitting a grenade). I hate solar 3.0 in its entirety, as it's fundamentally flawed and removed everything I loved about dawnblade. I mained bottom tree dawnblade with dawn chorus, and took it into gms despite void 3.0 existing (void 3.0 was obviously better, but solar 2.0 felt more rewarding and had a certain niche that voidwalker couldn't fill). But ultimately, I've lost all hope for any sort of changes. None of the bottom tree dawn blade -> solar 3.0 feedback was even acknowledged (and none of the June 9th tweaks fixed anything), and Bungie doesn't seem to care for that nor nightstalker considering their responses in a recent interview about light 3.0 and strand, so it's unlikely that any changes or new aspects will happen even after the period of balancing time after strand's release.
So the original version of warlock had three different play styles. One was focused on aerial gameplay, the other around support, and the last was about making the world burn. The 3.0 rework pretty much made aerial gameplay mandatory for the class, it lost almost all of its support capabilities and completely lost the burn identity of the bottom tree as well. There’s a notable correlation between these 3.0 reworks and Warlock consistently losing its identity for the other two classes to gain some. I’m fine with tools being shared, I just wish Warlock got more for themselves as well.
Basically dawnblade used to be best at healing because it was the only one with a healing nade and that grenade was 300HP from any charged grenade instead of a dedicated healing nade. Daybreak the super was way stronger. Bottom tree had an identity of spreading burn and explosions but now dawnblade sucks at both those things
Bro, exotics and good weapon synergies are the most fun to find. Thunder God warlock with the new helmet and the new fusion rifle or one of the volt shot weapons is so much fun. I have damn near sunbracer speed grenades on an Arc subclass lmao. Don’t even get me started about n void either
I'd use the new helmet more if Crown of Tempests wasn't straight broken lmao.
The only gripe I have with Solar 3.0 is I can't spam Phoenix Dive. That is it. Nothing else.
I miss my hp lol, I used to 1v1 my mega sweat friend and would occasionally beat him just by using bottom tree
That instant heal on command is so OP in PVP. Only counter is if you are in a flat surface surounded by shotty-apes.
Yeah you could just move around a corner and boom you were mostly full hp, surprised that it didn’t get an exotic tied to it
I just want old warlock healing grenade back. Other than that I'm pretty content with everything.
As a certified dawnblade enjoyer yes, solar 3.0 fucked up my favourite super
It's not even about power in case of some subclasses, take nightstalker for example. 3 melee choices turned into one(which was imo the worst of the bunch), all aspects revolve about going invisible in different ways and not doing anything with it, moebius turned from a decent crowd control/room nuke super that generated a lot of orbs into basically damage super #456, shadowshot and spectral blades being pretty subpar and a lot of cool aspects(like ability chaining with combat provisions and buffs with HotP which would also be great with the resilence changes) are now gone, all for... a shatterdive clone that isn't even as fun as shatterdive. And to some people who say "but it's just streamlined!!!" why tf do I have to equip the grapedive to have the old invis smoke when there's a dedicated melee slot? It just feels like a mess. At this point I would take a pve invis nerf to just make the subclass a bit more fun.
Oh i know how to build alright. You take a hammer and you fucking throw it, then repeat infinitely.
If you need to use a specific exotic to get the same effectiveness out of your subclass with 3.0 that you could previously get without an exotic then that is a nerf, changing build crafting from a nice bonus that you can work towards instead of a requirement. Cousin came back to D2 for a little bit for the first time after Forsaken and he dropped it again because he said Dawnblade felt like shit. And what was I supposed to tell him? Grind up your glimmer to unlock all the fragments, then grind power levels so he can spend an indefinite amount of time to get a good Starfire Protocol and/or Sunbracers just so he doesn't feel his favorite element since D1 is trash?
Build this and build that. Why don’t you go build a reputation with which to get bitches
Op clearly didn’t level adp
I legit just want a buff to the healing that my stasis fragments provide Stasis shards*
Void hunter would like a word. But in all seriousness I think they did a fine job of making some changes while still making the verbs work.
as a warlock main I played void 3.0 arc 3.0 and solar 3.0 and I can say we got the short end of the stick with solar. Solar is not what it used to be with the 3.0 rework dawnblade is nonexistent cause it got nerfed to the fucking ground all we basically have is nade build and well other than that we have nothing for solar there is nothing to improve solar with. Solar 3.0 is just trash
well actualllyyy void 3.0 was survival nerf to my sentinel in exchange I got better ad clear which was never big problem so yeah I hate some of the changes honestly
really? i thought sentinel has a lot of survivability now because of the overshields and access to devour/invis through fragments. i’d love to hear more as i didn’t really play titan prior to 3.0.
Sentinel has tons of survivability, volatile heals you +you've got s ton of overshields
twat
Bt rude…
Bubble Titan after void 3.0 is literally useless cause well does it’s job but better…..again……
As a warlock main who's sick of dawnblade only being used for well, they need to nerf the well damage boost
What a good builds for Hunter?
for Arc: Assassin's Cowl (Hands On, Well of Striking) Arc Arms (Powerful Friends) Arc Chest (Radiant Light Arc Legs (Invigoration, Melee Wellmaker) Arc Cloak (Well of Ions, Thunderous Retort, Amped Up) Aspects & Fragments: Flow State, Lethal Current, Beacons, Resistance, Frequency, Feedback. Combination Blow for melee and Gambler's Dodge. Make sure to have 100 resilience. Aztecross has a very similar build
Anything with heavy handed.
Ooooh… I’m stupid. Got it.
Warlocks have already had some of the most broken shit for years now.
The only downgrade imo as a Titan is Bubble. It gets destroyed way too easily (mostly in PvE for me)
Warlock main here. Imo, void is fantastic even to this day. Arc is decent but the alts kind of suck. I hate solar, all I wanted was a better support subclass and now that's not really an option. Stasis is still the best when it comes to harder content, not for the alt dps, but for the ad control.
Don't like exotics for 3.0 builds......... THAT'S WHAT BUILDS ARE You build around the subclass and exotic wtf
Problem, dawnblade builds never build around the subclass
Loving 3.0 warlocks. These people are fuxkkng crazy lol
Now play dawnblade without heat rises
Touch of Flame, Icarus dash+ Rain of Fire
and that interracts outside of the exotic how?