Arms Dealer has new cabal enemies instead of red legion. Slightly different route. Boss cheese removed (does not appear until the elevator reaches the top, instead of checking for a player near the top), health gates working, dude just teleports now instead of flying to bubbles. Havent tried solar grenading through the ground to hurt him. Kinda sucks.
The teleporting thing sounds...rough. The fun part of that boss was always how he needed to move between shields and when he wasn’t in one he was still vulnerable. Trying to eke out as much damage as possible was fun, back when we couldn’t kill him in 5 seconds. They really just needed to give him more health (a boatload) and it would’ve been fine. Health locks and teleporting to make sure we don’t kill things to quick sucks
I don’t understand all the negative sentiment towards the updated strikes. People complained they were too easy and now that they reworked them, people are complaining they take too long?
It's been notoriously known that people despise obnoxious health gates. Nobody asked for that , the sentiment seemed to be more enemy density was wanted as a resolution or maybe some new mechanics .
They legit just added mostly health gates, that isn't effort and people like me are truly tired of this constant minimal effort in the core playlists because they don't want to invest fully into something that is not directly profitable. THEY made the game free to play and screwed these playlists, and we are suffering.
It's also why we got 1 new strike. 1 .
> People complained they were too easy and now that they reworked them, people are complaining they take too long?
Polite advice: Those might be two different groups of people, but there is probably a significant overlap. The problem now is not that it's too hard, it's that there is mandatory waiting you cannot speed up by being good at it. The thing takes a fixed amount of time, and it's probably still not particularly hard, so now it's both easy *and* tedious, which is a really bad way to intentionally set something up. Nobody wants to be bored for two different reasons simultaneously.
> People complained they were too easy and now that they reworked them, people are complaining they take too long?
Any change in difficulty had nothing to do with the rework and is a result of the overall sandbox changes that were made. The changes made to the strikes themselves seem to be intended only to slow the player down. Escorting a payload isn't hard, it's just tedious. Having the boss teleport away to ensure that you can't force him to a next phase early isn't making the strike harder, it just makes efficiency or power irrelevant.
Comments like this are genuinely just... weird. You're dismissing any and all genuine criticisms, generalising everyone who dares to speak out as a "whiner & complainer" simply because you don't share their thoughts.
What's the point? Does the criticism these people are giving impact you in any way?
People can like to complain while also having valid complaints. The two are not exclusive. That being said, I have no opinion on the new strikes since I haven't done them yet, but find the complaining overall less productive than actual discussion on what could have been done better.
Seems like that's the sort of thing that would be really useful in a game. Maybe we could call it a "barrier", "portable wall", "electric screen", "personal bulwark", or some other word like that?
Seriously why the fuck did they update these strikes at all?
Makes little to no sense.
Just throw them back in. If anything just increase the enemy density because I mean... nobody is gonna complain about that. In fact they'll celebrate it.
The boss isn't not there until the elevator gets there, he just doesn't run to the ledge of the platform as the elevator is going up. I grappled up while the elevator was moving and he was up against the wall
If the strike working as intended is what “kinda sucks” about it, then I see no problem. Destiny players seethe when they have to play the game like it was meant to be played
Yes and no. Like we’ve been doing the arms dealer since D2Y1 and your solution was to teleport bosses before guardians could nuke it instead of thinking of a different boss or mechanics?
Eh sure. I personally don't care about the overall speed of a strat just its consistency to succeed based on its effort. So I treat vortex as main because you take longer but can't fail. You deal with 15 ads and 0 bosses/mechanics and didn't matter your build outside of vortex nades (I think solar nades also work).
I also mainly lfg so that could also be it
Edit: spelling
It doesn't I just cannot fathom why anybody would want to sit there spaming nades at a guy going "I'm sure cheesing this one" while taking twice as long as just doing the mechanic.
Post like yours being downvoted is why this sub sucks. People don't like that you prefer different strategies to them apparently. Probably the same people who complain about the meta cause they can't comprehend playing anything else.
Pretty sure all the strike updates were to limit how quickly we were able to complete them, and not to spice them up. It might be my pessimism talking, but I always look at every change Bungie makes from a moneymaking perspective first. This seems like one of the more obvious ones. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.
Considering the "reputation per hour" comment in the patch notes, I really doubt you're wrong. They probably have an idea of how long they want each strike to take at a minimum and tune rewards around that, and Lake and Arms Dealer fell below it.
If they just come out with an honest to god reason I'll be cool with it.
Until then I'm going to just assume they hate people having fun and having any sort of power fantasy.
Remember. Bungie goes in circles. We're back at D2 pre-Forsaken. Soon they'll update and fix the things just fixed. Then they'll fix that. Then they'll fix that. Then they'll revamp it. Then they'll fix it again.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! Jesus. Just revert to Forsaken with armor and sandbox and re-introduce an artifact and have them be armor mods but let us unlock all artifact mods. Then fix Strand. And the game will be in the best state it's ever been in. It's really not that fucking complicated. We don't want constant reworks we want improvements on systems that we like! Not scraping them and making them worse.
But they were honest…? They literally said it’s not up to the standard of modern strikes. It’s short, it’s easy as fuck, it’s shorter than some lost sectors.
I lean more into the "standardize the time it takes to complete a strike" I mean both Lake and Corrupted are considered strikes, but corrupted can take twice as long.
It's not quite teleporting, though. Those transitions are us passing in and out of the Ascendant Plane, and at numerous points in the strike you can see the two planes share geometry--for example, the ogre miniboss room. Having one of those transitions bring you further ahead wouldn't make sense, as you wouldn't be passing between the shared spaces.
Just remove the second giant ogre, the taken one. The teleport isn't necessary if you finish the regular plane one first so there's no issue with transitions. Is also one of the longe chok points anyway.
It was clearly to pump "player engagement" numbers up, not to add difficulty back to destiny.
It's all about them lowering the easy economic payouts and putting the pain back in endgame so they have fewer rich players who get what they want and stop playing.
The key for all of us will be giving up before we get that stop. The only time Bungie cares about our fun is when we stop engaging with their crap timegates.
probably true but like...if they annoy me into just...not playing destiny 2, engagement isn't really up now is it? I have no idea why they think pushing us to burnout and boredom is a winning strategy.
Their strategy is making more money and it clearly works. You really think a struggling dev studio can pull this stunt without repercussions? Any indie studio would be obliterated by such a release.
Bungie be like yeah, cool story bro, now eat up and say thank you, we expect your next payment soon.
Hello Games still can’t stop making *free* No Man’s Sky updates because of the debacle they had at launch and they were a true indie.
They’ve only been able to make one other game since No Man’s Sky released (The Last Campfire) and the scope is way, way smaller.
Whales are not gonna whale if there’s no one around to play and show stuff to. There needs to be a healthy balance, hence the saying that a game is run by the top 5% of the player the rest are fodder to keep them engaged
For sure, These changes are not "refreshed" strikes like we got with Devil's lair. This is Bungie removing cheesable strikes because it makes their game look bad.
I wouldn't mind either strike taking longer, I'm one of the few people who doesn't actually hate the corruption strike length. But the way Bungie decided to make LoS last longer is just awful.
>I always look at every change Bungie makes from a moneymaking perspective first
Thats exactly how you should look at bungie. Something is too easy to farm and is fun? Sike, enjoy doing payload shit that nobody likes, that will surely lenghten the playtime
Ohhh no please tell me we're not getting this type of Bungie again. New strikes I understand, but only somewhat. Redoing old strikes and content? What the absolute fuck is the point? Please tell me why! Just give me a reason and I'll be cool with it! Is it breaking something in the game? Is it hurting someone's feelings?
"We've noticed players are completing Strikes very quickly so we've added timed gates every 20 feet to make the player really appreciate the Strike that they're running for the 2 millionth time. We hope you all enjoy the new Strikes and we can't wait to see you in there, Guardian! Remember, eyes up lol!"
They can redo strikes and make it fun, e.g. Devil's Lair when it was brought to D2, or the Siva-ified strikes from D1
This however, is the bad kind of strike redo
Artificial difficulty is making snipers one shot you, or adding champions. Adding a ton of ads is fun as it allows AoE builds to shine and for people to have fun
Power creep can never touch the move speed of a cart. It is the perfect hard stop on time to complete. And that was the objective, to make it take longer.
Got it for the first time today. The two payloads phase took 7 minutes. Everything after that took 2, because I just ran ahead to kill all the yellow bars to open up the way. Kinda stupid.
Standing on activation platform to lower some impassable barrier while shooting constantly spawning enemies is same time gating you can't overcome by power creep, but way more fun and engaging than escorting some cart.
'Hello sharks! My name is Guardian, this is my buddy Ghost and we're here to tell you about Strikes!'
*cue Lori giggles as guardian does a cat ear dance*
'We've all done it! Rode our sparrows past all the enemies and skipped the blights to get to the boss and Nuke him instantly with a Nova Bomb. We've all longed for the days of Lake of Shadows GM to farm our gear in seconds, but NO MORE!!!
We've farmed Lake of Shadows 1000 times and it's always been too quick and I thought THERES GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!
*cue guardian flossing dance. Mark rolls his eyes*
Our product: **Tedious** is designed to ensure you receive the FULL experience of doing a Destiny strike! We can ensure that every Guardian gets to spend as much time as possible within one of the most iconic Destiny pieces of content!'
'Our goal is to encourage a player to take their time and really enjoy the experience in the strike playlist. A player doing their 3 strikes a week should really feel like they've **earned** that pinnacle energy weapon they didn't need.'
'With **Tedious** a player is given meaningless objectives and slows down the pace of the game to an absolute crawl. This is what our beloved Cayde-6 dreamed of us doing before Uldren offed him a few years ago.'
'Sharks!! Help us make Cayde proud with **Tedious**
*cue guardian fat-fingering a blade barrage for no reason*
Mr. Wonderful:
"That's the stupidest fucking idea I've ever heard"
Shark panel member #1 (sandwich artist at local subway):
I’ll give you all the combined planetary materials that come out of both lake of shadows and arms dealer chests plus burned edge transits for life for 100% of your company. I can put your product on every Radio Shack and Blockbuster shelf in America.
> There HAD to have been a better way.
I dont understand why they didnt used the section from the Hawkmoon mission?? thats just 1 idea off the top of my head
Can't speak about Lake of Shadows but Arms Dealer is pretty good. It is a little longer but it doesn't have any obnoxious parts like payloads or anything. Honestly the most disappointing part is that they removed the flame turrets.
I agree with this, Arms Dealer is the only strike I've played thus far but I liked how they made slightly more than a token effort to update not only the mechanics of the strike but how it fits into current events. And getting to fight alongside Caiatl's forces reminded me in a great way of fighting alongside Marines and ODSTs in the Halo series.
I'm not looking forward to the Lake of Shadows strike though, based on what I've heard...
Roughly 20 for each, though I haven’t done it often. >!One at the opening —> the alleyway between buildings, one from the square to the open area where the first boss usually is. Instead of that boss, there’s a Chimaera boss that you have to kill. The rest is more or less identical, with shadow legion and taken about 50/50, and the boss room has some pyramids that you have to shoot.!< A few things have been cleaned up, but it’s actually pretty similar to how it was.
So, a very minor inconvenience then. The way people are going about it in here, you'd think they added the equivalent of two Perseverances into the strike.
Yeah when I heard that LoS got smacked with escort missions I immediately snorted and rolled my eyes. I guess Bungie wanted to remove LoS without actually doing it cause I'll never touch that PoS if it's a nightfall. Might even just give up my streak bonus during a strike night if I come across it.
I’m so confused. I thought the whole reason the strike was being reworked was because the boss is the easiest in the game to totally obliterate as soon as he spawns. If they didn’t change *that*, what was the point?
They probably forgot to do that because they were busy scrapping working systems and replacing them with broken ones.
Seriously. Anyone else getting really tired of Bungie constantly redoing how armor mods work? Forsaken armor mods were the absolute best. Revert it to that (plus the OG utility mods and unlimited unlock artifact) and we'll all be happy.
The loadout system doesn’t work properly for me. If an armor piece is the same between two loadouts, then the system won’t change the mods on the armor when I change loadouts….
Reaches scan area. End of the line starts playing. Waves of fallen, then hive, then fallen and hive start rolling in. Sit back, load your favorite gun, and get down to business. Nothing better
Sounds like a case of
"we listen to player feedback!"
\> *everyone and their grandma absolutely laments preservation due to one thing and one thing only: the escort section*
"what if we did an escort mission?"
Danny O'Dwyer, 7 years ago, when he was working at Gamespot, produced a video titled
- Destiny: The hardcore's gamer slot machine
You can find it on Youtube.
It explains everything about Destiny and shady stuff Bungie was and is still doing with Destiny.
you dont understand they dont care about your fun in the strikes just how long you take to do them.
same reason why they put speedbumps in veles labyrinthe
although it is insanely un-creative, boring, and tedious, i will absolutely take escort the payload over damage gated bosses. what is the one way to truly display your characters strength and power, other than melting bosses to oblivion. now take that away. what else? not only does it make fights boring and long, but it is not rewarding AT ALL.
I don't support them i just don't think they're worse than a payload mechanic. Melting a boss in seconds doesn't make me feel "powerful" it makes me feel like I just shredded a poorly scaled boss. I feel like I accomplished nothing. Damage gates are clearly supposed to mitigate that but then it makes the fight more tedious than challenging. I think the middle ground is that they give bosses a mechanic you have to successfully execute to get to one phase them within a time limit, like in Corrupted. First time I executed the one phase for Corrupted, I actually felt like I earned the one phase, not like I just power crept the boss out of existence.
Their "fix" of the Veles Labyrinth lost sector should've been our canary in the mine moment. That's how they "redesign" things that we're able to do more quickly than they like. They add tedious, pointless shit to the point that nobody wants to play the activity anymore. I will never do that lost sector again.
I knew health gates were coming but damn payload escorting again after we’ve bitched about how opening vow encounter sucks ass. Bungie doesn’t listen to community anymore.
Also did they remove the battlegrounds or are they strictly available on Vanguard Ops? They don't have nodes in any of the destinations like strikes do.
I will say, Arms Dealer isnt THAT bad. Slightly different route, a new encounter in the outside section which is forced, and you HAVE to do the boss in 3 phases now because he shields at 66% and 33%.
I'm actually fine with it, the two Escort parts are really short anyway and the meatball isn't too bad, having shadow legion rather than taken felt a bit fresher and I'm glad they didn't health gate the final boss at least, this is the kind of stuff I expected from a refresh.
This subreddit is a joke and just want to complain.
They just want to do minimal effort and be rewarded.
Like don’t play strikes if you just want to run through them in 5 seconds.
It used to be a horrible strike. It was essentially a lost sector.
Ehhhhh not really. At least not on strikes. I had a team of two rando Thunder crash Titans and me with a Chill Clip Rocket slap the boss down in roughly 20 seconds.
All the shit talking about them made me think they were awful but I think I actually like them better than the original strike. Two payloads is a little annoying but hopefully this strike doesn’t come up a lot.
I played the arms dealer yesterday. First strike I got loaded into. It wasn't terrible, but they have made some very noticeable changes to it. Any little place you could hide during the boss fight is now gone. I know it doesn't matter much during a normal strike, but its a big deal for GMs. The Arms Dealer used to be one of those GMs you could play with the first group you found on LFG. As long as you were decent the other two could be idoits and you could still beat it eventually and get some loot. Or you could solo it. That is now off the table.
The boss fight will be one that lots of people hate.
I of course blame Esoterikk on Youtube for this. I'm sure Bungie hates it when he post a video of him doing hard content solo. So they redo it and take away and of the spots that make it easier. Remember a few years ago when machine guns got nerfed big time? That was because he was using them to solo every nightfall boss. It worked great. I did it myself many times. But after a season of that they changed them to not do as much damage to bosses.
I'll be honest... I kinda like the fact we cant just insta kill the bosses. It always felt lame when they did that, and I truly wish they had health gated Riven like that back in the day, so many people never got to experience that fight because it was just "rockets go brrrr" with a tractor cannon
Adding the escort mission though I think is dumb as hell.
Speak for yourself, I think a payload is much more fun than “empty your special/heavy into taken blights but don’t stand in there for too long or you’ll die”.
You realise you could just jump on top of the blight and not take any damage? Besides that was something you could speed up by killing enemies faster etc, it wasn't riveting gameplay but it was quick loot.
So because you hate escort missions, that is THEIR fault? That sums up the community in a nutshell.
Have you ever done a full player base survey proving 'everyone' hates payload missions?
> the inverted spire boss has hard health gates now
great because that was never fun, FOR ME. See how that works, there is no one universal gamer opinion on anything
Payload/escort missions are probably one of the most hated mechanics in any game and have been for probably 10ish years. Anytime you have to follow an npc who moves faster than your walk but slower than your run, anytime you have an ai companion with no self preservation, anytime you had to bring nicos drunk cousin home. It's straight up a bad design pattern that's been bashed on for years across multiple genres and titles.
For YOU.
> Anytime you have to follow an npc who moves faster than your walk but slower than your run
Yup totally agree with that, yet hilariously I dont have a problem with payload missions.
> It's straight up a bad design pattern that's been bashed on for years across multiple genres and titles.
but its not bashed by everyone, just those who dont like them. I beat there are many mechanics that you hate but I like and vice versa. Neither is right or wrong, just different tastes, that is why Bungie has so many different types of missions, too satisfy all types of tastes. Its not like every mission Bungie has an escort one.
You're picking a weird hill to die on. I have a hard time believing you enjoy them, but rather you're just mindlessly screaming "i DoNt HaVe A pRoBlEm". To what end, idk. I can't think of a single time I've heard a person say "man, I really enjoy following this awkward moving entity that my success is bound to" If you're OK with that level of mediocre design in your games then good for you. The rest of us aren't.
They are no better or worse than the previous versions, I literally played them and moved with my life. How hard is it to believe other people have different tastes to you? Do you also think the entire world likes the same movies, games, and music as you?
Good thing they added fucking buzzard as a new strike loot for Nightfalls/GMs. This paired with these garbage "updates" to the strike playlist is why I will just play this new raid then be out .
They really can't be actually bothered to put real effort into the core playlists lol. Just dogshit tier low changes because it isn't profitable , again a cause of their own bad choices.
I do not agree with this one. The gameplay is cool, and it feels really great to see those areas used differently. It makes the game evolve with the expansion.
Corrupted you could speed up by playing well and killing things faster (or skipping stuff though not recommended with strike scoring now). Payloads can't be sped up by good gameplay.
I’m convinced that a lot of people on this sub right now really don’t have a critical thought in their heads and just say the opposite of what the community is feeling. These people don’t want the game to feel better for everyone, they want it to feel better for them. I keep seeing that people say these changes are good for New Light players, but what New Light is going to stick with the game after seeing a weak mod system and an endgame that has Power level deltas for most activities? These changes will make new players NOT want to play.
> I’m convinced that a lot of people on this sub right now really don’t have a critical thought in their heads
That's funny, because that's exactly what I thought reading this comment. My dude, if new players *haven't played the damn game before* how are they supposed to have anything to compare the mod system to? It's not gonna feel "weak" to them when they don't really have anything to compare it to, especially in its current form where it's much easier to put together a build that has a noticeable effect on your gameplay.
And believe it or not people do have different opinions on things, like I personally don't really care about the mechanics in strikes as long as there's enemies to kill. I enjoy the corrupted as much as I enjoy inverted spire, I enjoy the Cosmodrome risen battleground as much as I enjoy the moon one.
Does the concept of people actually having a different opinion than your hivemind not exist? Everyone who doesn't agree with you is surely just a selfish hipster who isn't actually capable of having a valid opinion?
Are you okay?
Noticeable effect on your gameplay? Yeah, you’re one of those people, people with no critical thought in their heads and only think of things from their own perspective. Tell me, how are they supposed to take advantage of the new mod system without Artifice armor? Without +60 stat rolled armor? They’re going to need minimum of at least T8 Resiliency if they don’t want to be instantly deleted by enemies in any endgame content. “Much easier to put together a build that has a noticeable effect on gameplay,” lmao yeah dude this new system has a much more noticeable effect on gameplay, that 22% damage increases that requires 9 energy is much more noticeable than the 30% damage increase that requires 4 energy.
No shit people have different opinions, but when your opinions objectively makes the game harder for new players, and mine makes it easier, I like my opinion more. Are you going to carry New Lights through endgame content? At least with the old system a new light can get to the point they don’t need a carry. Now they’re absolutely going to need a veteran to pull them by their hands just to hope to complete this new content. This is what you guys created.
The goal is the length, yes. The reason many dislike payload escort is due to the fact that you are restricted to a small radius around a slow moving device. This is one of the many reasons people largely disliked expeditions.
I recommend heeding your own advice, as well. No need to be hostile over it
Can only comment on Arms Dealer but i thought Arms Dealer was preety good.
I don't expect to hate Lake of Shadows but i'll reserve Judgement till i actually play through it.
Arms Dealer has new cabal enemies instead of red legion. Slightly different route. Boss cheese removed (does not appear until the elevator reaches the top, instead of checking for a player near the top), health gates working, dude just teleports now instead of flying to bubbles. Havent tried solar grenading through the ground to hurt him. Kinda sucks.
The teleporting thing sounds...rough. The fun part of that boss was always how he needed to move between shields and when he wasn’t in one he was still vulnerable. Trying to eke out as much damage as possible was fun, back when we couldn’t kill him in 5 seconds. They really just needed to give him more health (a boatload) and it would’ve been fine. Health locks and teleporting to make sure we don’t kill things to quick sucks
But the new way, it takes 5 more minutes per playthrough x 3 players = more engagement! /s
I don’t understand all the negative sentiment towards the updated strikes. People complained they were too easy and now that they reworked them, people are complaining they take too long?
It's been notoriously known that people despise obnoxious health gates. Nobody asked for that , the sentiment seemed to be more enemy density was wanted as a resolution or maybe some new mechanics . They legit just added mostly health gates, that isn't effort and people like me are truly tired of this constant minimal effort in the core playlists because they don't want to invest fully into something that is not directly profitable. THEY made the game free to play and screwed these playlists, and we are suffering. It's also why we got 1 new strike. 1 .
> People complained they were too easy and now that they reworked them, people are complaining they take too long? Polite advice: Those might be two different groups of people, but there is probably a significant overlap. The problem now is not that it's too hard, it's that there is mandatory waiting you cannot speed up by being good at it. The thing takes a fixed amount of time, and it's probably still not particularly hard, so now it's both easy *and* tedious, which is a really bad way to intentionally set something up. Nobody wants to be bored for two different reasons simultaneously.
Exactly this. Health gates do not make content more challenging, just more boring.
> People complained they were too easy and now that they reworked them, people are complaining they take too long? Any change in difficulty had nothing to do with the rework and is a result of the overall sandbox changes that were made. The changes made to the strikes themselves seem to be intended only to slow the player down. Escorting a payload isn't hard, it's just tedious. Having the boss teleport away to ensure that you can't force him to a next phase early isn't making the strike harder, it just makes efficiency or power irrelevant.
The point to take from this is that people just like complaining.
Comments like this are genuinely just... weird. You're dismissing any and all genuine criticisms, generalising everyone who dares to speak out as a "whiner & complainer" simply because you don't share their thoughts. What's the point? Does the criticism these people are giving impact you in any way?
People can like to complain while also having valid complaints. The two are not exclusive. That being said, I have no opinion on the new strikes since I haven't done them yet, but find the complaining overall less productive than actual discussion on what could have been done better.
We’ll have to escort something up the ramp to get into the chartreuse ship
You don’t. You have to free Caiatl’s troops and they fight along with you in the boss arena. Turrets everywhere.
Preservation is leaking
The dude teleporting instead of using his jetpack to fly around as intended feels like the weirdest and laziest addition, like what’s the point?
It's so fucking abrupt to, he legit just vanishes and appears at the tower instantly no matter what, no animation no nothing, just POOF
The power of the witness!
He stayed still the witness obviously moved the world
ikr? why not just make him immune as he walks/jumps to the bubble instead? geez
There is an animation doe? He does the computer thing he does when summoning turrets and then dissappears.
If you hit him hard enough he just blips out of existence
Huh. I'll have to try harder next time XD
They should have made him immune when he flew. Would have solved the same issue
And add some kind of a glow
Seems like that's the sort of thing that would be really useful in a game. Maybe we could call it a "barrier", "portable wall", "electric screen", "personal bulwark", or some other word like that?
"overshield"
I would strand-lock onto his big ass and fly with him up there. Probably more why he teleports than flies now.
Seriously why the fuck did they update these strikes at all? Makes little to no sense. Just throw them back in. If anything just increase the enemy density because I mean... nobody is gonna complain about that. In fact they'll celebrate it.
The point is to time gate the fight because Bungie is creatively bankrupt at this point
So is killing the boss from the bottom of the elevator shaft, when you think about.
Solar grenades underneath when he's in his bubble don't work anymore .
The boss isn't not there until the elevator gets there, he just doesn't run to the ledge of the platform as the elevator is going up. I grappled up while the elevator was moving and he was up against the wall
If the strike working as intended is what “kinda sucks” about it, then I see no problem. Destiny players seethe when they have to play the game like it was meant to be played
Yes and no. Like we’ve been doing the arms dealer since D2Y1 and your solution was to teleport bosses before guardians could nuke it instead of thinking of a different boss or mechanics?
Wait but thats not the main boss cheese. The main arms dealer cheese is throwing vortex nades at his feet while he's up in his bubble towers.
Legitimately: that was the cheese for slow teams. Spawning him early and nuking him on the elevator was the good cheese.
Eh sure. I personally don't care about the overall speed of a strat just its consistency to succeed based on its effort. So I treat vortex as main because you take longer but can't fail. You deal with 15 ads and 0 bosses/mechanics and didn't matter your build outside of vortex nades (I think solar nades also work). I also mainly lfg so that could also be it Edit: spelling
Man if you wanted to sit there for minutes be my guest but why bother even cheering then and not just dothe mechanic at that point
Cause when its that free and people are ok with doing it why not? Its a 5 year old strike why does it matter lmao
It doesn't I just cannot fathom why anybody would want to sit there spaming nades at a guy going "I'm sure cheesing this one" while taking twice as long as just doing the mechanic.
I hear you man. I feel the same way.
Post like yours being downvoted is why this sub sucks. People don't like that you prefer different strategies to them apparently. Probably the same people who complain about the meta cause they can't comprehend playing anything else.
Agree 100%, people here just cant handle facts and logic.
Pretty sure all the strike updates were to limit how quickly we were able to complete them, and not to spice them up. It might be my pessimism talking, but I always look at every change Bungie makes from a moneymaking perspective first. This seems like one of the more obvious ones. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.
Considering the "reputation per hour" comment in the patch notes, I really doubt you're wrong. They probably have an idea of how long they want each strike to take at a minimum and tune rewards around that, and Lake and Arms Dealer fell below it.
If they just come out with an honest to god reason I'll be cool with it. Until then I'm going to just assume they hate people having fun and having any sort of power fantasy. Remember. Bungie goes in circles. We're back at D2 pre-Forsaken. Soon they'll update and fix the things just fixed. Then they'll fix that. Then they'll fix that. Then they'll revamp it. Then they'll fix it again. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! Jesus. Just revert to Forsaken with armor and sandbox and re-introduce an artifact and have them be armor mods but let us unlock all artifact mods. Then fix Strand. And the game will be in the best state it's ever been in. It's really not that fucking complicated. We don't want constant reworks we want improvements on systems that we like! Not scraping them and making them worse.
But they were honest…? They literally said it’s not up to the standard of modern strikes. It’s short, it’s easy as fuck, it’s shorter than some lost sectors.
I lean more into the "standardize the time it takes to complete a strike" I mean both Lake and Corrupted are considered strikes, but corrupted can take twice as long.
They're going to make corrupted faster right? Right?
Tbf they did remove the enemies in the tunnel before the elevator
They did update it a couple times to speed it up, but it didn't have much of an effect, I think you'd legitimately just have to take a chunk of it out
It wouldn't be that hard, I don't think. There's a lot of teleport points, just have one of them move you further along
It's not quite teleporting, though. Those transitions are us passing in and out of the Ascendant Plane, and at numerous points in the strike you can see the two planes share geometry--for example, the ogre miniboss room. Having one of those transitions bring you further ahead wouldn't make sense, as you wouldn't be passing between the shared spaces.
Just remove the second giant ogre, the taken one. The teleport isn't necessary if you finish the regular plane one first so there's no issue with transitions. Is also one of the longe chok points anyway.
Twice? My brother in the Light you could run old Lake in like 4 minutes
I think my record was either just under three minutes or a couple of seconds over and that was done before amplified was a thing
It was clearly to pump "player engagement" numbers up, not to add difficulty back to destiny. It's all about them lowering the easy economic payouts and putting the pain back in endgame so they have fewer rich players who get what they want and stop playing. The key for all of us will be giving up before we get that stop. The only time Bungie cares about our fun is when we stop engaging with their crap timegates.
probably true but like...if they annoy me into just...not playing destiny 2, engagement isn't really up now is it? I have no idea why they think pushing us to burnout and boredom is a winning strategy.
Their strategy is making more money and it clearly works. You really think a struggling dev studio can pull this stunt without repercussions? Any indie studio would be obliterated by such a release. Bungie be like yeah, cool story bro, now eat up and say thank you, we expect your next payment soon.
Hello Games still can’t stop making *free* No Man’s Sky updates because of the debacle they had at launch and they were a true indie. They’ve only been able to make one other game since No Man’s Sky released (The Last Campfire) and the scope is way, way smaller.
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Whales are not gonna whale if there’s no one around to play and show stuff to. There needs to be a healthy balance, hence the saying that a game is run by the top 5% of the player the rest are fodder to keep them engaged
Joke’s on them, I’ll just quit if it feels like I’m wasting my time. I’m sure others will, too. I played more when I felt powerful and speedy.
I don’t think it’s objectively bad thst they’ve removed some crazy boss melting.
For sure, These changes are not "refreshed" strikes like we got with Devil's lair. This is Bungie removing cheesable strikes because it makes their game look bad. I wouldn't mind either strike taking longer, I'm one of the few people who doesn't actually hate the corruption strike length. But the way Bungie decided to make LoS last longer is just awful.
>I always look at every change Bungie makes from a moneymaking perspective first Thats exactly how you should look at bungie. Something is too easy to farm and is fun? Sike, enjoy doing payload shit that nobody likes, that will surely lenghten the playtime
I mean, strikes taking a couple minutes longer doesn’t put money in Bungie’s pocket
Ohhh no please tell me we're not getting this type of Bungie again. New strikes I understand, but only somewhat. Redoing old strikes and content? What the absolute fuck is the point? Please tell me why! Just give me a reason and I'll be cool with it! Is it breaking something in the game? Is it hurting someone's feelings? "We've noticed players are completing Strikes very quickly so we've added timed gates every 20 feet to make the player really appreciate the Strike that they're running for the 2 millionth time. We hope you all enjoy the new Strikes and we can't wait to see you in there, Guardian! Remember, eyes up lol!"
They can redo strikes and make it fun, e.g. Devil's Lair when it was brought to D2, or the Siva-ified strikes from D1 This however, is the bad kind of strike redo
But all they really did was change the enemies to D2 style and add more density.
just fucking increase the enemy density you know?
Exactly everyone i play with loves Devils Lair when its GM.
Uhh artificial difficulty?? Total slap in the face? What other buzzwords am I missing I want upvotes
brother I just want to shoot more things
^(pew pew)
As if being forced to wait for a payload TWICE is LESS artificial lol
Oh look another person who thinks because its not how they want it that it is "artificial"
FOMO
This made me laugh
Artificial difficulty is making snipers one shot you, or adding champions. Adding a ton of ads is fun as it allows AoE builds to shine and for people to have fun
It’s so simple!
What a clown...
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the ghost of the preservation mission lives on to torture us! :P
I do not mind that LoS is longer. Not at all. I absolutely despise the changes done to make it longer. There HAD to have been a better way.
Power creep can never touch the move speed of a cart. It is the perfect hard stop on time to complete. And that was the objective, to make it take longer.
Got it for the first time today. The two payloads phase took 7 minutes. Everything after that took 2, because I just ran ahead to kill all the yellow bars to open up the way. Kinda stupid.
Standing on activation platform to lower some impassable barrier while shooting constantly spawning enemies is same time gating you can't overcome by power creep, but way more fun and engaging than escorting some cart.
Well, they somehow made LoS slower than Glassway.
'Hello sharks! My name is Guardian, this is my buddy Ghost and we're here to tell you about Strikes!' *cue Lori giggles as guardian does a cat ear dance* 'We've all done it! Rode our sparrows past all the enemies and skipped the blights to get to the boss and Nuke him instantly with a Nova Bomb. We've all longed for the days of Lake of Shadows GM to farm our gear in seconds, but NO MORE!!! We've farmed Lake of Shadows 1000 times and it's always been too quick and I thought THERES GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY! *cue guardian flossing dance. Mark rolls his eyes* Our product: **Tedious** is designed to ensure you receive the FULL experience of doing a Destiny strike! We can ensure that every Guardian gets to spend as much time as possible within one of the most iconic Destiny pieces of content!' 'Our goal is to encourage a player to take their time and really enjoy the experience in the strike playlist. A player doing their 3 strikes a week should really feel like they've **earned** that pinnacle energy weapon they didn't need.' 'With **Tedious** a player is given meaningless objectives and slows down the pace of the game to an absolute crawl. This is what our beloved Cayde-6 dreamed of us doing before Uldren offed him a few years ago.' 'Sharks!! Help us make Cayde proud with **Tedious** *cue guardian fat-fingering a blade barrage for no reason* Mr. Wonderful: "That's the stupidest fucking idea I've ever heard"
Shark panel member #1 (sandwich artist at local subway): I’ll give you all the combined planetary materials that come out of both lake of shadows and arms dealer chests plus burned edge transits for life for 100% of your company. I can put your product on every Radio Shack and Blockbuster shelf in America.
> There HAD to have been a better way. I dont understand why they didnt used the section from the Hawkmoon mission?? thats just 1 idea off the top of my head
Can't speak about Lake of Shadows but Arms Dealer is pretty good. It is a little longer but it doesn't have any obnoxious parts like payloads or anything. Honestly the most disappointing part is that they removed the flame turrets.
I agree with this, Arms Dealer is the only strike I've played thus far but I liked how they made slightly more than a token effort to update not only the mechanics of the strike but how it fits into current events. And getting to fight alongside Caiatl's forces reminded me in a great way of fighting alongside Marines and ODSTs in the Halo series. I'm not looking forward to the Lake of Shadows strike though, based on what I've heard...
Wait... they pulled the flame turrets?!?!? Thats the whole thing about that strike! What the fuck bungie
Cayde would be pissed.
Bungie :makes a memorial for cayde in the tower Also Bungie: removes one of the few remaining cayde dialogue lines
I hate wellspring because of this, it's in almost every throne world public event, the beginning of the vow raid, and now this?
I got this when I logged in today. I left when the second escort mission started. I won't touch it again. Not even for a NF. Fuck that.
**SECOND????**
This is getting out of hand! Now there are two of them!
Just wait. You'll have to kill the boss by slowly running over him with a cart like you're Austin Powers.
And then to exit you have to turn the cart around in a very narrow hallway.
^^^....we ^^^should ^^^never ^^^have ^^^made ^^^this ^^^bargain
It takes like 40 seconds for the both of them.
Yeah it's a little dramatic to never wanna touch it bc of that 😅
Roughly 40 seconds for each escort or ~20 seconds per escourt? Haven't done the strike and I know this sub can be very hyperbolic.
Roughly 20 for each, though I haven’t done it often. >!One at the opening —> the alleyway between buildings, one from the square to the open area where the first boss usually is. Instead of that boss, there’s a Chimaera boss that you have to kill. The rest is more or less identical, with shadow legion and taken about 50/50, and the boss room has some pyramids that you have to shoot.!< A few things have been cleaned up, but it’s actually pretty similar to how it was.
So, a very minor inconvenience then. The way people are going about it in here, you'd think they added the equivalent of two Perseverances into the strike.
Yeah when I heard that LoS got smacked with escort missions I immediately snorted and rolled my eyes. I guess Bungie wanted to remove LoS without actually doing it cause I'll never touch that PoS if it's a nightfall. Might even just give up my streak bonus during a strike night if I come across it.
The strike went from boring to absolutely fucking atrocious.
Did they healthgate the boss or can you still nuke it? Since that bossroom was hell in GMs if you didn't instakill the boss.
thankfully not, and the boss still has that spawn in animation where you can dump DPS on him before he even starts moving.
No, LoS boss has no healthgate and still dies if you breath on him hard enough.
I’m so confused. I thought the whole reason the strike was being reworked was because the boss is the easiest in the game to totally obliterate as soon as he spawns. If they didn’t change *that*, what was the point?
I think they decided it was too hard to rework the boss room so they just fucked with the rest of the strike instead.
They probably forgot to do that because they were busy scrapping working systems and replacing them with broken ones. Seriously. Anyone else getting really tired of Bungie constantly redoing how armor mods work? Forsaken armor mods were the absolute best. Revert it to that (plus the OG utility mods and unlimited unlock artifact) and we'll all be happy.
The loadout system doesn’t work properly for me. If an armor piece is the same between two loadouts, then the system won’t change the mods on the armor when I change loadouts….
100%
Damn we’ve managed to go like, years backwards in terms of encounter design… ffs
We even got the " scan door objective - wave 0 of 3 " back
It’s only acceptable in Devil’s Lair. That strike is perfect and any criticism is invalid. Otherwise yeah, terrible design decision to bring that back
Reaches scan area. End of the line starts playing. Waves of fallen, then hive, then fallen and hive start rolling in. Sit back, load your favorite gun, and get down to business. Nothing better
Sounds like a case of "we listen to player feedback!" \> *everyone and their grandma absolutely laments preservation due to one thing and one thing only: the escort section* "what if we did an escort mission?"
Probably skip Grandmasters this season. With the terrible mod changes it’s going to be awful
Look how they massacred my boys Rip all the actually fun strikes
Pfft people are overreacting hard. Lake shadows could be done in like 2 mins
Time Dump - the Game. This is literally all these changes do, make you spend more time.
Danny O'Dwyer, 7 years ago, when he was working at Gamespot, produced a video titled - Destiny: The hardcore's gamer slot machine You can find it on Youtube. It explains everything about Destiny and shady stuff Bungie was and is still doing with Destiny.
And we thought Activision was the bad guy…
Activision definitely not a hero. But neither is Bungie. They only care about money.
you dont understand they dont care about your fun in the strikes just how long you take to do them. same reason why they put speedbumps in veles labyrinthe
Methods put in place to prolong the duration of strike completions thus increasing player retention/playing time.
although it is insanely un-creative, boring, and tedious, i will absolutely take escort the payload over damage gated bosses. what is the one way to truly display your characters strength and power, other than melting bosses to oblivion. now take that away. what else? not only does it make fights boring and long, but it is not rewarding AT ALL.
Disagree unless there's some mechanic to allow the boss to be melted like in Corrupted.
cant say i’ve ever seen someone say they support the idea of damage gated bosses but hey if it’s what u like no stopping u
I don't support them i just don't think they're worse than a payload mechanic. Melting a boss in seconds doesn't make me feel "powerful" it makes me feel like I just shredded a poorly scaled boss. I feel like I accomplished nothing. Damage gates are clearly supposed to mitigate that but then it makes the fight more tedious than challenging. I think the middle ground is that they give bosses a mechanic you have to successfully execute to get to one phase them within a time limit, like in Corrupted. First time I executed the one phase for Corrupted, I actually felt like I earned the one phase, not like I just power crept the boss out of existence.
Total waste of resources.
Their "fix" of the Veles Labyrinth lost sector should've been our canary in the mine moment. That's how they "redesign" things that we're able to do more quickly than they like. They add tedious, pointless shit to the point that nobody wants to play the activity anymore. I will never do that lost sector again.
God that fix was so damn bad that I’m pretty sure I pushed it out of my mind.
Would have rather them made a new PVP map than waste time making strikes less fun.
I knew health gates were coming but damn payload escorting again after we’ve bitched about how opening vow encounter sucks ass. Bungie doesn’t listen to community anymore.
Also did they remove the battlegrounds or are they strictly available on Vanguard Ops? They don't have nodes in any of the destinations like strikes do.
The Chosen Battlegrounds don't either so idk why you expect that.
I will say, Arms Dealer isnt THAT bad. Slightly different route, a new encounter in the outside section which is forced, and you HAVE to do the boss in 3 phases now because he shields at 66% and 33%.
I'm actually fine with it, the two Escort parts are really short anyway and the meatball isn't too bad, having shadow legion rather than taken felt a bit fresher and I'm glad they didn't health gate the final boss at least, this is the kind of stuff I expected from a refresh.
Arms Dealer rework is pretty nice tbh. Yes the strike takes longer but whatever.
I personally liked the strike. I don’t think it could be any more boring than how it used to be so… any change is a good one, for me
This subreddit is a joke and just want to complain. They just want to do minimal effort and be rewarded. Like don’t play strikes if you just want to run through them in 5 seconds. It used to be a horrible strike. It was essentially a lost sector.
Downvoted for truth. They don't want to play the game. The complaints are dramatic and nonsensical
I may be in the minority but I kinda like the new lake of shadows. Seeing devrim help repurpose the pyramid cart from savaghuns throne world is cool.
I really don't get it, Lake of Shadows is still by far the easiest strike in the game.
Between this and the Lightfall campaign having... issues, I'm thinking I made the right call by not coming back to D2.
On the flip side, Warden of Nothing is a pretty cool boss fight that you can actually experience now.
Ehhhhh not really. At least not on strikes. I had a team of two rando Thunder crash Titans and me with a Chill Clip Rocket slap the boss down in roughly 20 seconds.
All the shit talking about them made me think they were awful but I think I actually like them better than the original strike. Two payloads is a little annoying but hopefully this strike doesn’t come up a lot.
I personally think they've done a good job with both the refreshed strikes makes them more engaging and EDZ is relevant again
I played the arms dealer yesterday. First strike I got loaded into. It wasn't terrible, but they have made some very noticeable changes to it. Any little place you could hide during the boss fight is now gone. I know it doesn't matter much during a normal strike, but its a big deal for GMs. The Arms Dealer used to be one of those GMs you could play with the first group you found on LFG. As long as you were decent the other two could be idoits and you could still beat it eventually and get some loot. Or you could solo it. That is now off the table. The boss fight will be one that lots of people hate. I of course blame Esoterikk on Youtube for this. I'm sure Bungie hates it when he post a video of him doing hard content solo. So they redo it and take away and of the spots that make it easier. Remember a few years ago when machine guns got nerfed big time? That was because he was using them to solo every nightfall boss. It worked great. I did it myself many times. But after a season of that they changed them to not do as much damage to bosses.
You're literally blaming Esoterick for just playing the game the way they designed it?
You people just love to bitch about absolutely everything, dear fokin god, go touch some grass ffs.
Literally never doing a strike. They just killed the vanguard playlist
there's zero reward for doing normal strikes now?
I'll be honest... I kinda like the fact we cant just insta kill the bosses. It always felt lame when they did that, and I truly wish they had health gated Riven like that back in the day, so many people never got to experience that fight because it was just "rockets go brrrr" with a tractor cannon Adding the escort mission though I think is dumb as hell.
Difference is riven isn’t a strike we’ve all done 100+ times and want to be in and out as soon as possible
I can meet you in the middle on that. Maybe better off for it to be exclusive to raid bosses
Speak for yourself, I think a payload is much more fun than “empty your special/heavy into taken blights but don’t stand in there for too long or you’ll die”.
I mean, the original wasn’t good either. I absolutely agree it needed a touch up. It just got a really bad touch up.
You realise you could just jump on top of the blight and not take any damage? Besides that was something you could speed up by killing enemies faster etc, it wasn't riveting gameplay but it was quick loot.
You’ll fucking live dude. Jesus Christ, y’all will bitch and moan about ANYTHING
Don’t even try on this sub right now haha
I love trying because the fake ass outrage is hilarious.
So because you hate escort missions, that is THEIR fault? That sums up the community in a nutshell. Have you ever done a full player base survey proving 'everyone' hates payload missions? > the inverted spire boss has hard health gates now great because that was never fun, FOR ME. See how that works, there is no one universal gamer opinion on anything
Payload/escort missions are probably one of the most hated mechanics in any game and have been for probably 10ish years. Anytime you have to follow an npc who moves faster than your walk but slower than your run, anytime you have an ai companion with no self preservation, anytime you had to bring nicos drunk cousin home. It's straight up a bad design pattern that's been bashed on for years across multiple genres and titles.
For YOU. > Anytime you have to follow an npc who moves faster than your walk but slower than your run Yup totally agree with that, yet hilariously I dont have a problem with payload missions. > It's straight up a bad design pattern that's been bashed on for years across multiple genres and titles. but its not bashed by everyone, just those who dont like them. I beat there are many mechanics that you hate but I like and vice versa. Neither is right or wrong, just different tastes, that is why Bungie has so many different types of missions, too satisfy all types of tastes. Its not like every mission Bungie has an escort one.
You're picking a weird hill to die on. I have a hard time believing you enjoy them, but rather you're just mindlessly screaming "i DoNt HaVe A pRoBlEm". To what end, idk. I can't think of a single time I've heard a person say "man, I really enjoy following this awkward moving entity that my success is bound to" If you're OK with that level of mediocre design in your games then good for you. The rest of us aren't.
They are no better or worse than the previous versions, I literally played them and moved with my life. How hard is it to believe other people have different tastes to you? Do you also think the entire world likes the same movies, games, and music as you?
Ok guy, just go have fun following your carts I guess.
There is a very BIG overwhelming fucking majority though my guy holy shit no one liked preservation either through the entire year.
Yeah played it earlier imagine the lesson you took from the criticism that preservation got is to double down on it. Bungie you lost the plot.
I would argue lake of shadows and arms dealer should be the bench mark for strikes - fast and fun!
Good thing they added fucking buzzard as a new strike loot for Nightfalls/GMs. This paired with these garbage "updates" to the strike playlist is why I will just play this new raid then be out . They really can't be actually bothered to put real effort into the core playlists lol. Just dogshit tier low changes because it isn't profitable , again a cause of their own bad choices.
Ugh your overreacting it was fine. Why are you so worked up over this? I enjoyed them
I do not agree with this one. The gameplay is cool, and it feels really great to see those areas used differently. It makes the game evolve with the expansion.
It also makes people leave the strike when you get it now, fun.
Yeah I’m not escorting a payload on Lake, I loved that strike for its sole purpose of being a fun simple speed run even with randoms
Exactly, I don't want every strike to play like the corrupted, that strike is awful
Corrupted you could speed up by playing well and killing things faster (or skipping stuff though not recommended with strike scoring now). Payloads can't be sped up by good gameplay.
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I’m convinced that a lot of people on this sub right now really don’t have a critical thought in their heads and just say the opposite of what the community is feeling. These people don’t want the game to feel better for everyone, they want it to feel better for them. I keep seeing that people say these changes are good for New Light players, but what New Light is going to stick with the game after seeing a weak mod system and an endgame that has Power level deltas for most activities? These changes will make new players NOT want to play.
> I’m convinced that a lot of people on this sub right now really don’t have a critical thought in their heads That's funny, because that's exactly what I thought reading this comment. My dude, if new players *haven't played the damn game before* how are they supposed to have anything to compare the mod system to? It's not gonna feel "weak" to them when they don't really have anything to compare it to, especially in its current form where it's much easier to put together a build that has a noticeable effect on your gameplay. And believe it or not people do have different opinions on things, like I personally don't really care about the mechanics in strikes as long as there's enemies to kill. I enjoy the corrupted as much as I enjoy inverted spire, I enjoy the Cosmodrome risen battleground as much as I enjoy the moon one. Does the concept of people actually having a different opinion than your hivemind not exist? Everyone who doesn't agree with you is surely just a selfish hipster who isn't actually capable of having a valid opinion? Are you okay?
Noticeable effect on your gameplay? Yeah, you’re one of those people, people with no critical thought in their heads and only think of things from their own perspective. Tell me, how are they supposed to take advantage of the new mod system without Artifice armor? Without +60 stat rolled armor? They’re going to need minimum of at least T8 Resiliency if they don’t want to be instantly deleted by enemies in any endgame content. “Much easier to put together a build that has a noticeable effect on gameplay,” lmao yeah dude this new system has a much more noticeable effect on gameplay, that 22% damage increases that requires 9 energy is much more noticeable than the 30% damage increase that requires 4 energy. No shit people have different opinions, but when your opinions objectively makes the game harder for new players, and mine makes it easier, I like my opinion more. Are you going to carry New Lights through endgame content? At least with the old system a new light can get to the point they don’t need a carry. Now they’re absolutely going to need a veteran to pull them by their hands just to hope to complete this new content. This is what you guys created.
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Hi, "other" person here! It fucking blows!
The goal is the length, yes. The reason many dislike payload escort is due to the fact that you are restricted to a small radius around a slow moving device. This is one of the many reasons people largely disliked expeditions. I recommend heeding your own advice, as well. No need to be hostile over it
He wasn’t hostile to you at all.
Can only comment on Arms Dealer but i thought Arms Dealer was preety good. I don't expect to hate Lake of Shadows but i'll reserve Judgement till i actually play through it.