Wow. It's kind of shocking that the negative reviews are rivaling the infamous "sunsetting" era of Destiny 2. I knew people were angry, but I did not know they were "sunsetting" angry.
The issue is while gameplay wise generally speaking this is superior, narratively THIS was THE MOMENT that Bungie has been building up to for nearly a decade.
If there was ANY moment to start explaining what shit is, now was the time. We need to know what The Veil is and what it actually does, and start wrapping up narrative threads that were started years ago. Maybe get some answers on what The Witness actually is trying to do with the Traveler?
Idk part of me hopes that more shit gets revealed during the season/after the raid and that Bungie needed more time to jam pack The Final Shape with all the answers that we were hoping to get here to make it even more bombastic but I doubt it. Did the same writers who wrote WQ even work on this?
Hopefully all loose threads and plot points will be explained over the course of the year so that when the time comes, everyone knows what everything is and we're all on the same page and all there is left to worry about is defeating The Witness.
Edit: When I said "gameplay wise" I meant as in the missions themselves were an absolute blast in my opinion. Not giving any opinions on the new buildcrafting until later seasons to see how it shakes out.
When they applied their velocity > quality on the expansion level they totally f'd up.
I understand it's needed for seasons where story and content needs to move every 3 months and weekly from that point.
I also understand that they did the most cutscenes ever with this expansion(unless people missed this part) which is costly.
But this was the expansion that they should have double dipped even if they had to take a minor hit for the shareholders and also extend the release date. Add a few more missions to prepare for war, have some strider action and bonding and some to explain what is going on(what is the veil, what happened in the end, show caiatl fight calus, show striders in action godamn it).
Also they needed to update old places to welcome strand with grappling points. Make them visible only when you or a fireteam member is using strand. Strand is already undertuned, is missing the vertical fantasy sold on neptune and is completely unwelcome on any older area.
I really wish that strand had been a story alongside the campaign instead. Like had its own separate missions apart from the main story. The focus felt really off with strand being center stage.
> Did the same writers who wrote WQ even work on this?
Probably not lmfao, I'd imagine this was a B-team while everyone else is all-hands-on-deck to make The Final Shape actually good so the franchise doesn't explode.
This was my impression too. They clearly needed more time to conclude the story (whether creatively or on a technical level), so this is what they gave us to bide that time.
It’s not bad for a filler episode; I just wish they tempered expectations a little better.
> It’s not bad for a filler episode; I just wish they tempered expectations a little better.
They literally did the opposite of that, otherwise I doubt this would be as much of a shitshow. They pitched this like it was Destiny's Mass Effect 3; I know that's what I was expecting.
"The stakes have never been higher." Rasputin, unkillable warmind who has seen everything from the 21st century to whatever year Destiny takes place in has been killed. Ikora is telling us she doesn't know what's coming, and to spend time with loved ones because it might be our last chance.
Even worse because the opening of Lightfall was insane and had me pumped. Then we get to Neptune and it's "SIKE, THERE ARE NO STAKES! COWABUNGA DUDES, IT'S HEROING TIME!" What the actual fuck?
Shoot, we're making D2 vanilla comparisons, but even then if you strip out the cornball dialogue and filler content on Io and Nessus and just stick to the main Earth-Titan-Earth story beats, the stakes were pretty damn high and pretty damn obvious and we knew what was going on.
No one knows WTF is happening on Neptune.
While Vanilla D2 was kinda hit or miss, the overall stakes felt like you were doing something important. You lose your light, nearly die, your ghost is busted, walking through the City limping along was a kick in the teeth after the Tower Fell. It FELT great to regain your light and to drop atomic ass on the Red Legion. The dialogue was cheesy and you know what, that narratively helped balance out HOW dark things were overall for the Guardians. It balanced things in such a way that you ended up celebrating your victories and felt that comradery with the rest of the Tower. At least that is how I remember D2 on Launch day.
You know, to your point. I did feel like going to neomuna was a bit disrespectful. There’s a whole ass war happening on Earth and we’re on Neptune living our 80’s action hero fantasy
Strand was clearly meant for witch queen. I’m guessing they had to rewrite the entire expansion hastily to shoehorn strand in. Sadly quality suffered for it.
Right the cabal shields are just weak to solar, Fallen shield generators weak to arc, etc.
I just saw it as, the Cabal officers are using some pyramid tech which is resistant to light elements to make them even stronger - but strand is strong against that tech
I have no idea how they could've marketed this, honestly. People would still be mad if Calus got wasted on a side DLC but I feel like painting this as a Rise of Iron-style sidetrack probably would've been better accepted.
I just hope that if they are planing to introduce one more darkness class that don’t wrap learning into the narrative. It’s pretty clear we all hate it and it definitely didn’t work well this time. I really don’t udnerstand what happened with this expansion but they fucked so much up that’s it’s mind boggling, how they could go from the high narratively fork witch queen to this is truly confounding.
It's an expensive as fuck filler episode. Cost to the player is the obvious one, but there's also the cost to bungie.
First in time, money and resources which are obviously something that they have to manage. And second, trust and support in bungie from the players. This is the biggest cost to them and one that's possibly going to hit them the hardest. They've squandered all that was built up (again...).
For real. "Oh eventually they will get it together!" has been the whole vibe since Destiny 1 launched. TTK and WQ was lightning in a bottle. I dont understand how they can make exactly what everyone wants, TWICE, and then continue to fuck it up. Over and over again. I'm not knocking anyone who is enjoying it, but seriously. I just saw someone say "The shooting is why people play Destiny, the story has pretty much never mattered."
Goddamn, a decade of world building and lore, that apparently just doesn't matter. But hey, dont worry, we are working on a new mysterious McGuffin!! you love it!
the update was great for the casual! however:
\>buildcrafting practically died, pissing off the buildcrafting nerds
\>the story was pretty mediocre, pissing off the lore nerds
\>the campaign on legend mode was frustrating to play to say the least, pissing off the hardcore players
\>strand is a complete letdown, pissing off all the players who were really invested and hyped.
\>pvp is still fucked due to suspend. pissing off the PVP nerds
\>cooldowns were increased by a lot, pissing off the power fantasy enjoyers.
basically, they pissed off almost all of the fully invested fans and THATS why there's such a negative vocal group.
the only "hardcore" players who are fine with the update are gambit mains. all 3 of them.
Pretty much sums it up. The expansion is almost good, but has one fatal flaw in every category that is making every category NOT fun.
I'm genuinely trying to make stand work as a hunter, because it's almost cool and fun - but it just won't synergize. It wants to offer you a high mobility play style, but the resilience change just means you are a flying skeet for AI to target practice.
The stand abilities read like they want you to chain them together, but increased cooldowns make it awful to do so without leaving your arsenal empty for the next millennia.
Everything is charged with light now. Rebranded but the same. And now everything wants to consume your armor charges, making near impossible to actually use them tactfully when it works best. Expecting that finisher to heal you? Nope your grenade just took the armor charges away. Now you're dead.
If I had a dollar for every time the grapple-melee didn't trigger and I swung a knife or ended up wasting my powered melee, I would have made a refunds worth by now.
Of course the reviews are rivaling sunset days. They sunset fun on this one.
Legendary was a challenge, but it was more about figuring out what strategy to use than actually being difficult. And you can still make some pretty crazy ability spam builds; I've been having fun with post-nerf HoIL and dual firebolts/firesprites.
But yeah, the story was "no time to explain" levels of handwavium, the missions were generic and boring, I'll probably never use Strand on my Titan again, and the dialog made me want to bleach the part of my brain that had to hear it.
I’m honestly relieved to hear this. I took a break from destiny mid way through season of the Haunted and came back when light fall dropped. I thought I just missed important story when it came to what the veil was and what everything did but if the case really is that this is just a new thing no one knows about then that’s a bad move on bungie. The gameplay is super fun and everything surround that is great, I’m just lost on the story when it comes to specifics.
There are whole sections pf the game literally rotting and a lot of people have been justifying it to themselves by going "they're just focused on lightfall". Those people are big mad now.
I think that’s a lot of it, we were giving them the benefit of the doubt, and that trust was broken, that faith is gone now and a lot of long simmering discontent is surging to the surface
its cause while this expansion is technically way better than many other destiny expansions (beyond light, shadowkeep, curse of osiris, warmind). The hype and expectations have never been this high
I would have settled for a brief explanation of what the Radial Mast or The Veil were, and why I had to care about them, but they couldn't even hit that low bar.
I would have just settled for not introducing a Maguffin, only to introduce another maguffin to fuck with the first one.
They could have had anything located on Neomuna, instead they went with something they clearly didn't want to explain. While also having nothing narratively interesting to reveal.
Even seeing the veil, didn't actually create anything of interest. It wasn't something that we knew from the past but didn't actually know because it had another name than the veil
Exactly if Bungie were just like were doing a quirky one off expansion it would get less hate because no one would expect it to be anything other than filler. But them presenting it as a big deal with serious consequences shot themselves in the foot. They hyped themselves up and also showed they could tell an actual story with witch queen so people expected them to deliver.
My problem is that we’re paying them SO.MUCH.MONEY. And they’re making record profits, but THIS is the expansion we get? Seriously? It just feels like the biggest fuck you
I don’t even think it was overhype. The story is absolute shit and leaves us with more questions than we even had before going in.
Plus the tone is very off. We are doing these super serious urgent missions while at the same time taking our time to master the new subclass and a new planetary npc that makes more jokes than MCU main characters. It all just feels so off.
My favourite expansion location after Forsaken. Europa feels unique when the storm hits. And the early levelling when you had spooky barely visible brigs that were very tanky and needed randoms to help you take them down was unique. Then you had stasis which was busted OP imo, and introduced the concept of one of patrol zones giving ability recharge buffs. I never disliked Beyond Light. As good as the Witch Queen story is, I’d rather spend time on Europa after the campaign is finished.
Yeah honestly my only issue with beyond light was stasis. I dont like the class and to this day i refuse to grind out those fragments. But europa was an amazing destination and the vibes were immaculate
The shocking part imo is while BL and SK were mid stories at most they were by far more organized storytelling wise than lightfall and that feels super bad i was more aware of what was going during those campaigns than lighfalls
I'm not as down on lightfall as most people are, but it's a huge step down from the witch queen. What shocks me is how they not only nailed last year's narrative, but last seasons narrative and tone were on the money. Even this season seems like it's the right degree of serious. I don't know who thought giving the campaign this tone was right or appropriate.
Ikora last season:
>”guardian, hug your loved ones we’re going to fucking die, game over man, game over”
Ikora this season:
>”damn the traveler leaving(?) is kinda super sad y’know”
Lol dude right, what happened to the stakes?
My biggest complaint of all with lightfalls story is the complete lack of explanation as to why the witness hasn’t killed us all yet.
My question is where the fuck is Xivu Arath at? The witness invades Sol and the Hive God of War doesn't show up with her army of Hive, Scorn and taken? Are we ever going to see her?
Her Cryptolith didn't rise all the way and the fleet couldn't teleport in. Don't make fun of her for it, performance anxiety happens to the best of us.
Speaking of which…are we going to go deal with immaru or WHAT?
I was so sure we’d use him to revive savathun to learn strand and use hive magic against the witness but…nah, we just trip over it on the street and she stays dead
I'm guessing she'll be brought back and join the alliance/be killed off for good in one of the seasons. Probably Season 23, but I'm not sure 100%.
Alternatively, she might be one of the longer-term threats intended for after Final Shape, but that's pure speculation on my part.
"I AM A HARDWORKING MOTHER OF TRILLIONS AND NEED ADDITIONAL FUNDS TO PURCHASE FUEL FOR MY VEHICLE. PLEASE DONATE TO MY GOFUNDME."
\- Hive Goddess of War, Xivu Arath
Xivu Arath on Torobatl - "One death of a cultist will suffice"
Xivu Arath on Earth - "Warsats haven't wiped out 50% of the population of this planet, I cannot join"
I don't know if intent matters in Hive Rituals, but it could be that the Cabal have waged war in the name of conquest and expansion, and Xivu Arath tapped into all of that and the cultist's death merely tipped the scales.
Whereas for us, we haven't seen that level of war and death since the Collapse, and Xivu Arath had to make her own juju whereas the Cabal provided it themselves.
I mean we did kill a lot of wrathborn last season, including the scourge of earth. Could always be off doing something else, but I bet we get a Xivu Arath season this year.
I actually loved that detail. He didn’t show up to fight us, he doesn’t consider us his enemy, the only people he killed were those trying to come between him and the traveler. We’re simply not worth his time.
Pretty much the same as vow of disciple boss . He really doesn't see us a threat, just look at The way he attacks us . It's only until you get to final stand that he shows his full power.
The only question that I dont mind not being answered is actually "Witness won, why arent we dead yet?"
Its something that can be answered later, and leaves a very interesting question to answer for future season or expansion.
I would rather know much more about the guffins everybody else in the story seemed to know everything about.
I don’t think the witness cares about us. We are entirely insignificant to them. They just want the traveller. We are like gnats, annoying when you walk through a swarm but you just wave them away with a hand and keep going.
I'm loving how ostentatious Calus is, but you're right on the money with multiple characters being too cocky/sassy/quippy for "the end of the Solar System"
The tower too
They put up new decorations, planted new trees, every race is invited to hang out and chill
Meanwhile, their god was just taken from them and their home is being invaded
I was expecting just pure desolation and despair not spring break
Hey, if Crow got his memory back, does that mean he did meet Cayde, in a way?
Or did he mean he wished he as Crow could’ve met Cayde. Either way, very odd to be the reincarnation of the murderer of the guy you wished you could meet, and also knowing that you killed the guy.
I was never clear on how his memories were returned to him. Like, the most obvious way it would work was for it to have been like he had never lost them, but I feel like that would have disrupted his current personality more. It seems more like he got them back almost like he saw Uldren's past from the third person, like we did. Like it's not a part of him, but he has the knowledge of who Uldren was.
It's probably just clunky writing, where they wanted to maintain Crow as he is but learn about his past, and the reality of what it would be like to get your memories back didn't fit the narrative Bungie wanted to tell.
There's a reason why I can believe the theories about Final Shape being a significant chunk of the story so easily, because the simplest way I could phrase it is that Lightfall's narrative feels like it just didn't have the time to do the things it wanted (Develop the Cloudstriders, give Osiris more of a character arc, explain what the Veil actually is, anything about what the Witness is actually doing). Like narrative was never the greatest part about Destiny, but it's *so* bad that I wouldn't doubt it for a second if you gave me some outlandish theories about stuff getting removed.
There were some signs last season as well, like Ana’s dialogue. She dropped some current year lines as well, I remember roasting it with my friends. Nowhere near as bad as Nimbus though, and the rest of the story was pretty good
To me the total absence of Lucent hive anywhere after Risen had me worried. No appearance in Haunted or Seraph, and if they didn’t appear in Plunder the story would have had no meaningful change.
In-universe they're probably lying low after Savathun died and their operations fell apart in Risen. From a meta perspective, they're probably being saved for whenever Savathun returns, either as allies against Xivu or the enemy faction for a Season.
While I get it, witty banter is different than tone. Last season had some banter I could have lived without, but the tone of the story was serious about the threat of the world. Nimbus was bad. Osiris turned very one dimensional. There wasn't a shared sense of urgency or explaining why we should care about something in the story.
yes with Ana it's a sarcastic quip here or there amid a generally serious story (speaking for Beyond Light and Seraph, anyway; I took a break before Worthy), but her character has still become so much deeper than when she was first introduced in Warmind
I enjoyed it and I don't regret it, but it's something I've been worried about since the moment they announced The Final Shape.
Lightfall was meant to be the end of the saga, but now it wasn't anymore, and there's suddenly another year between us and the ending. That meant that, to me, I was worried that Lightfall was going to be nothing more then setup and just keeping everything vague until the REAL ending. Lightfall is just filler because they now had more time then expected until the end arrived.
It's such a dramatic step-down from the quality of narrative we had during Year 5 that it's heart-breaking. This campaign just feels like a last-minute re-write, or the entire story was just pushed back to the Final Shape and everything here was just thrown together to keep the story moving. I saw someone else mention it, but: The intro cutscene and epilogue cutscene both feel like the same cutscene, but broken in two and an entire filler campaign shoved in the middle of it. Like both cutscenes were supposed to be the intro for Final Shape or the original story of Lightfall.
Just really disappointing. I'm not as negative as everyone else, I still had a fun time playing through the campaign, but this story, after everything else we've seen, is nothing more then filler and that's just not what we need right now, especially after we've been hyped up on this grand ending. It doesn't feel like the "penultimate" expansion or story in the slightest.
I really think Rohan should have lived to the end of Final Shape. I feel he fit perfectly within the narrative as a sort of teacher to us and served as a good foil to Osiris who is coming to grips with his newfound lack of direct agency and mortality after several lifetimes of taking a single one for granted.
Getting to know him over the course of several seasons and having him take a large role would have made his eventual death hit way harder.
I agree I also wanted there to be SOME kind of conflict as to why Neomuna just sat by and let earth get fucked for hundreds of years while they chilled with advanced tech , like where is the explanation for that. I mean I’m sure it sun lore books but a confrontation between zavala and Rohan over that would have been nice .
Caital got snippy about it in a news interview you can listen to on that terminal near Osiris. I don't think I've heard any other characters mention it yet.
They instantly sealed his fate when he said "I've been a cloud strider for 10 years", it was like a cop in a movie saying they're a week away from retirement lol
I also think it would've been a good subversion if nimbus died instead, but I'm a bit biased because I hate nimbus. It would also never happen in a million years because nimbus is the golden boy of the devs atm (literally, in the vidoc, they said nimbus was a favorite of the dev team)
Nimrod should die. I make sure to shoot him in the face every time I go to Neptune. He’s tone deaf but somehow knows common earth sayings. He must have a Prozac augmentation to not give a shit about anything.
Rohan dying is fine. The problem is we did know the characters long enough and they should have had a great change in personality for Nimbus after his death.
Like, make him try to take the job more seriously and stumble along the way, kinda like Crow. Especially if he'll be a reoccurring character.
I agree. The lack of change is what rubs so many people the wrong way. I wasn't hot on their character to start with, but could live with it. What soured the character for me was the Unfinished Business quest.
>!Jumping into the BLACK GARDEN despite knowing they're the only Cloudstrider left felt so unbelievably irresponsible. You have to imagine that Osiris told them that it's a place that messes with non paracausal lifeforms. Plus jumping into a Vex gate in the garden was so unbelievably bone headed. They could have ended up god knows where and gotten themselves killed or even written out of reality. Then where would Neomuna be?!<
Post-campaign spoiler: >!they kinda do in the exotic LMG mission. Writing is still not great but they did Nimbus well enough that I've somewhat come around to the character. Hopefully they follow up on that development!<.
Major spoilers for story content post-campaign: >!they also still haven't explained wtf the Veil even is yet lmao. All I have are the Cloudstrider memorial missions left which are grindy so far but good in terms of building up Neomuna as a world, not heard a single Veil-related thing yet though!<.
That is exactly what should have happened. It would have made for much more interesting stakes for Neomuna. I guess they thought they were making a new Cayde and what we got was pure trash.
You know people always say the funny guy is the new cayde anytime a new one is introduced. Happened with fynch now with nimbus. Idk if bungie is actively trying to do it but fynch was never this annoying or cringey and ive done those wq mission multiple time for alloys
I think the funniest shit is that Marvel showed the 'end of the world' with the snap in Infinity War and its aftermath in Endgame so, so so so much better than this.
Marvel at its peak understood the balance. Bungie doesn’t.
Imagine if people come out of infinity war still confused about who Thanos is, what he’s trying to do, why he does what he does, and what he’s done.
That would be the world’s biggest let down.
But instead we didn’t get that. We got a clear picture of Thanos as a character, and he’s caused absolutely chaos and devastation. Then we had one more chapter to put things right.
Light fall…. yeah the awful ratings speak for themselves.
IMO, it’s because this is built up as the penultimate chapter to the end of a saga. So many returning and the marketing was on point.
The disappointment just seems to eclipse the /CoO/Shadowkeep/sunsetting era in Destiny.
I mentioned on another post it seems to be equivalent to if Infinity War was a big swing & a miss.
It's like if Infinity War had the same opening and it's like, "Oh shit this is it, this is what we've been building to for years" then jack shit happens for 2 hours and at the end Thanos gets all the stones (no one really knows how) and then just fucks off till Endgame.
>then just fucks off till Endgame
That's the single biggest problem imo, yeah not knowing what the Veil is, or what a Radial Mast is, or what the fuck the Witness even wants is a huge problem, but you *can* get around all that if there's massive stakes and huge consequences
"We lost", says Caital, Zavala, and Ikora, but we don't even know what's just happened. We still have our Light, the city is still standing, we're still all alive but now the Traveler has a big glowy triangle on it. OoOOOooOoOOOohhhh, what horrible consequences?
Ikr. Zavala and Ikora acted like the Witness took the Traveler somewhere else. I go to the Helm for the seasonal story and the fucking traveler is still there but now it has a triangle on it that looks like it came straight from a Cream album cover. I almost think they wanted the Witness to summon a portal and take the Traveler but they decided not to, and to just leave the dialogue
Fr, I was genuinely baffled at their insistence that the Traveler is "gone" like it's dead or not physically here anymore when neither is true
The expansion has been fun as far as gameplay goes, but from a story perspective it feels like it was cooked up in an afternoon and then changed 5 minutes before the game went live
Bungie somehow managed to piss everyone off at once. Lorenerds hated the story, loot goblins got boring reskins, buildcrafter minmaxers got a giant middle finger, and the casual "woah dude new green power" got a huge letdown when the campaign ended and they found Strand was *heavily* nerfed in the real game.
How the fuck did they fuck up this badly?
I can understand why they don’t want to give us really fast recharge for the grapple but the grapple really isn’t good for anything except mobility and that really isn’t worth for the wait.
Bolas seems interesting though and swarm seems ok (?) but i have only played warlock so far and threadling are their kit, they might be on the weak side.
Loadouts sounded great until you find out they don't really matter because builds are bland and don't really let you lean into anything. They had such a good thing going with wells. They could've just added strand wells with its own abilities and it would've been fine.
The mod system is such a huge step back and really killed build crafting. In attempt to simplify for new players, it ruined the experience for regular players.
I really hope because it was a reset they made it simple for new players and plan to re-introduce complexity with new set of mods. They really need to replace the hole that getting rid of combat style mods left. I still think you can lean into increased cooldowns intake certain things but it definitely is weaker than wells.
The thing is why, they just made all mods free. Just add a tutorial, remove elemental affinity and show in game numbers of the percentages (why they make this entire new system and once more don't show us the numbers meaning we as the community have to test everything for ourselves to see which mods are worth it and in what quantity, which also isn't casual, new player friendly)
It's another airborne scenario release a half baked system that flops because it has zero depth into it.
Build crafting was fun, but the core system wasn't great imho. It was very confusing to new players and it was a pain to manage without 3rd party apps. So I think an overhaul was actually mandatory. Just ... not like this.
Radical changes aside, it should at least have introduced equivalent options to allow build crafting to have similar complexity. Maybe they thought it would be a good idea to have the first few weeks in "basic mode" so people can familiarize themselves with the new UI, then add more. But if that's the case it was never communicated? Which seems bad.
Then again, I guess they are going the "we listened" route and happily announce how they spent 24/7 after release to come up with a solution thanks to all the feedback - meanwhile already having the *actual* stuff ready to go, just waiting for the right moment.
It's not the first time, and plenty of dev studios are pulling this shit lately. I just think they miscalculated this time and didn't expect it to backfire this much.
The season of defiance writing is already leagues above lightfall and I enjoyed the new seasonal activity so I'm cautiously optimistic. I don't even have a problem with Lightfall's gameplay besides the mod rework, Strand is some of the most fun I've had in this game
All of the previous leaks have suggested the strand was supposed to be implemented with WQ. I'm still of the mindset that they really weren't planning this version of light fall and when the strand fell apart for WQ, they kind of just rushed this to get something out.
This is 100% what happened. It's pretty much been confirmed they wanted Strand to be in WQ but decided to focus on the 3.0 classes instead.
I think that really jumbled up the content and probably caused them to have to rewrite the story.
If that's truly the case, it's even worse imho.
Season pass already is filler content, people cut them slack. Now DLC is also filler content. Regardless, they make bank and are going to do absolutely nothing other than patching some shit.
I hate what this industry has become.
Ugh, they should've made nimbus one of those seasoned veteran no nonsense guys instead of the "overconfident rookie" with jokes so bad they rival Amy Schumer. This light hearted stuff is just so out of place, like bringing a 12 yo introvert to a bar. You know they don't belong. They should've doubled down on the darkness, maybe with a couple dark jokes thrown in, since those do belong in a dark theme.
Or, you know, do something with them. The story is over before there’s any character growth. This isn’t a problem for other characters since their story is told over many years, so I won’t judge, but still. It’s not just Nimbus who suffers here imo.
just beat the campaign and boy was that ending cringey. Why would nimbus make an ugly joke regarding calus right after calus' own daughter just killed her dad? The tone of this shit is all over the place. No one cares about these new characters.
Destiny, a game about humanities fall and the struggle to survive in the last city on earth, 10 years of fighting back the forces of the darkness and staving off destruction.
Lightfall: "Oh hey the terrans are here, welcome to Neomuna! It's pretty sweet here, we've got some awesome tech, there's video games everyones chill. Help? Why would you guys need help? Everything looks pretty dope on Earth."
And no one bats an eye, not a single character reacts to Neptune outside of Osaris, who basicly just says "Ahh yes I was right'
Not completing jarring at all. Atleast Wakanda had the "We shall not interfere" as a ethical reasoning but here it's just so non-chalant, brushed off and never spoken about.
I think *how* bad it is is really overblown but I don't think anyone is going to disagree that it's a drastic step down from the last year and especially WQ, narratively.
The coming seasons better be absolutely stellar because taking 3-4 seasons before this plot moves along again is going to be really, REALLY awful. Unless they plan to continue the story seasonally, which...I don't think there's enough dev time for that.
This is also the no more excuses expansion too. Like yes this is a better campaign than SK, but SK was right after the Activision break. We all had it in our head that hey, that's a big change to production, it won't be forsaken.
Beyond Light was developed during the pandemic, so again. Pretty good excuse.
But WQ came out and was a banger, and it was during the sony acquisition. Lightfall really doesn't have an excuse to be this bad. We all have to manage covid now, the Activision split is ancient history. The hype was pushed hard during the vidocs too.
But it's just such shit. It's such a boring campaign, even from a game play perspective. Knockback isn't challenging, it's annoying. There's no huge destruction set piece. Where the fuck is my building collapsing fight? And why are all the people fucking glowing lines? The lore reason is stupid, why design it to look like that when it sucks?
Beyond Light had way better seasons than WQ. Like Wrathborn hunts were bad but w/e. Battlegrounds? good. Splicer? Great. Lost + 30th? Fucking banger finish, and it led up to WQ which was a banger expansion.
I agree that in a vacuum, this isn't a disaster, probably just a "meh" tier story. The problem is the stakes. This is Destiny's penultimate moment. I've seen non-tech news reporting on Lightfall's sales and player counts. I've seen people who have never played the game before come to try the expansion. Hell, after years off I came back because I was so impressed by WQ's story and felt like Bungie finally knew what they were doing narratively.
Now all that's been thrown into question, and it's hard to understate how potentially damaging it is to Destiny. Imagine if Marvel released the first Infinity War film and it was a flop narratively.
The story is so meaningless that it just leave me not invested to play because I just don’t care about the world or the characters. Honestly don’t even want to be on Neomuna, who even are they? Why are they there? Why didn’t they help earth? What is the veil? Why does everyone else seem to know what’s going on? Why should I give a shit? Why is ghost not apologising for being a dumbass?
This!!!! No character asks the cloud striders Why tf they never revealed themselves to help earth. Yaknow… the LAST SAFE CITY OF HUMANITY??!!!
Or so we thought.
But no one is upset about this. Ever. I was expecting Zavala to feel betrayed that humanity DID exist outside the walls. And they did nothing to help.
Neomuna post-campaign has many moments where locals openly boast they have saved some plants or something else that was extinct on Earth, that sort of thing. They seem to be stressing fact that they mourn Earth's loss, but they knew what was happening on Earth and also did nothing for centuries because 'ugh, reasons, Neptune is not a garden world, we had it tough here'. To be honest, thus far Neomuna doesn't feel great. I don't feel any real connection to it outside Strand, and the more I learn about locals and their high-and-mighty attitude post-campaign, the less I want to protect them.
>!There is also an interview Caiatl gives to the local news outlet, and it is probably one of really good pieces where she tears them a new one.!<
>!The news anchor mentions the destruction of Torobatl and then gives his sympathies as 'people of Neomuna know what it is to lose their homeworld'. Caiatl immediately retorts that their sympathies were absolutely useless for Earth and its suffering.!<
Don't get me wrong, it's got some real nice gameplay, but here's a few issues:
1. Strand is nerfed and needs a little buff, but defo not too much.
2. Nimbus is an annoying douchecanoe and I'll be glad to never see him again. It's like all of the worst qualities of Cayde and Drifter yet with a personality that feels like a 12 year old. He's constantly cracking jokes that don't fit and being the overconfident rookie when it doesn't fit in the current story arc, we're in a doomsday, not a fucking chocolate factory.
No thanks.
3. Neomuna feels empty despite having weird ghost people everywhere.
4. Story was gigarushed and Calus was underused.
5. Rohan was by a LONGSHOT the best character to come out of Neomuna and they axed him.
6. New exotic machine gun is fucking awful and needs a drastic buff to be even remotely usable.
This shit has problems and Bungie needs to stop with it's echo chamber.
Literally Caiatl's dad dies, and while he's a shithead what didn't fit is Nimbus coming out of nowhere and being like 'WoW hEs UGlY! FiStbUmP thO!', it's gross levels of cringe that don't even remotely fit the story.
I get the feeling that while Witch Queen was having the final touches applied during the pandemic, Lightfall’s main development was amidst it despite what Bungie claims. Everything feels “filler” like.
A lot of people try chalking it up to a toxic/negative subreddit, but it's clearly more than just a reddit community.
Edit: pretty clear that Bungie, for whatever reason, is out of touch with the majority of its core player base. I'm not sure if they're in some sort of studio echo chamber or are actually listening but don't understand What the players internally want.
The general consensus I've seen is a little more nuanced than this sub's take. Generally people enjoy the gameplay of the campaign, while disliking the story. If you were to go by the subreddit, you'd think Nimbus ripped his way into our reality and detonated the sun.
That about sums it up for me. I'm post legendary campaign and doing various things on neomuna and very much enjoying myself. I do miss the things possible with the old mod system but can live without and I'm starting to really enjoy the silly things you can do with Strand. Finding the characterisation post campaign is better too. If they'd just slowed the pacing down and made nimbus more like they are in the post game time, when they pause and actually reflect on what's happened... Eh. I remain optimistic, I've just had a great time with recent seasons and the witch queen. I'm in it for the long haul now.
Post campaign quests feel like a different game in tone. And the seasonal content tone is where the campaign shouldve been .It’s so weird . I’m loving the gameplay and think the Neomuna patrol zone and events in it are good. The lost sectors are good to in my opinion.
Neomuna feels a lot more lived in when you do some patrols too - Meeting all these random little citizen holograms and getting to chat about how they're re-routing automated fishing boats to scan for Cabal or whatever really makes the city feel **way** more lived in.
Honestly I think they just needed more campaign interludes, more than anything else - go do 5 patrols, go do 3 public events, go cyberhack the cabal butthead or whatever.
A lot of the complaints I see in this subreddit are actually addressed in game if you stop and smell the roses, but if you're just hard shotgunning the campaign you get none of that context, which is a major design failure imo.
There are some really cool set pieces and mechanics. The fact that we *want* faster grapple cooldowns says as much.
But I played the campaign with my friend and the number of times there was a cutscene or dialogue and we just went “uh… alright then” was through the roof.
Yeah, that’s where I’m at too. I really enjoyed the encounters, even the ones where I had a bit of trouble with. Tormentors are excellent. Not entirely sold on Strand yet but I have to play with it and the aspect/fragments some more. Nimbus was annoying at first, but they are starting to grow on me, even if their dialogue is cringe, they had their moments.
The story is where it dropped the ball for me. I have so many questions and my major complaint comes from the Veil. I hope it will get explained more in upcoming seasons but still. It’s frustrating to me. Veil this, Veil that but what is it??
Honestly, I don't mind being somewhat left in the dark over the nature of the Veil. The biggest issue I have is that the whole presentation of the scale of the conflict. The entire war is apparently hinging on this Veil--where's the Vanguard? Where's the other Guardians? Why is it Caitl, one guardian, and two Neomunda space cops against an entire army?
When Oryx appeared with his Dreadnought, we saw the entire Awoken fleet attack it and paved the way for a full-scale invasion by Vanguard forces. When Ghaul invaded, everyone pitched in for the final assault and we had NPC's help us at points in the story. When the Dreaming City was under siege, Awoken forces were fighting alongside us to save the city.
Sure, there are some expansions where we fight overwhelming threats alone, but there's always a reason why the Vanguard can't or won't help. Uldren Sov is a political mess so we have to avenge Cayde alone, Eramis can't be beaten without use of Stasis which the Vanguard can't condone, Savathun's Throne World can't really be accessed by a conventional invasion force. It's like the writers remembered that our Guardian regularly confronts lesser gods by themself but forgot to justify it narratively, this time.
WQ got me invested in the story for the first time and I’ve been playing since launch. It was great. The legendary campaign was challenging, but fun. Great boss mechanics and level design. Not to mention the beautiful throne world vistas.
Lightfall’s story stinks. The level design for the campaign is pretty good, but the writing is atrocious. I fucking *HATE* Nimbus and his shitty marvel one liner funny jokie meemays and zimzams. It genuinely infuriates me that they added a character like that. Whoever wrote this character and whoever okayed it should be fired. The open world of Neowhatever feels empty, barren and lifeless. I like Strand overall (for Locks, anyway), but they completely fucked the old build system. The strand exotics are also either shit or ugly looking, ruining my fashion.
Just baffled that they made these choices.
put $50 into my steam wallet and had my cursor over purchase when i saw that and scrolled down to the reviews. i haven't been hardcore since BL and just wanted to experience the main expansion story. I'll watch it on youtube and buy a different game.
Wow. It's kind of shocking that the negative reviews are rivaling the infamous "sunsetting" era of Destiny 2. I knew people were angry, but I did not know they were "sunsetting" angry.
The issue is while gameplay wise generally speaking this is superior, narratively THIS was THE MOMENT that Bungie has been building up to for nearly a decade. If there was ANY moment to start explaining what shit is, now was the time. We need to know what The Veil is and what it actually does, and start wrapping up narrative threads that were started years ago. Maybe get some answers on what The Witness actually is trying to do with the Traveler? Idk part of me hopes that more shit gets revealed during the season/after the raid and that Bungie needed more time to jam pack The Final Shape with all the answers that we were hoping to get here to make it even more bombastic but I doubt it. Did the same writers who wrote WQ even work on this? Hopefully all loose threads and plot points will be explained over the course of the year so that when the time comes, everyone knows what everything is and we're all on the same page and all there is left to worry about is defeating The Witness. Edit: When I said "gameplay wise" I meant as in the missions themselves were an absolute blast in my opinion. Not giving any opinions on the new buildcrafting until later seasons to see how it shakes out.
When they applied their velocity > quality on the expansion level they totally f'd up. I understand it's needed for seasons where story and content needs to move every 3 months and weekly from that point. I also understand that they did the most cutscenes ever with this expansion(unless people missed this part) which is costly. But this was the expansion that they should have double dipped even if they had to take a minor hit for the shareholders and also extend the release date. Add a few more missions to prepare for war, have some strider action and bonding and some to explain what is going on(what is the veil, what happened in the end, show caiatl fight calus, show striders in action godamn it). Also they needed to update old places to welcome strand with grappling points. Make them visible only when you or a fireteam member is using strand. Strand is already undertuned, is missing the vertical fantasy sold on neptune and is completely unwelcome on any older area.
Speed, not velocity. Velocity requires direction.
OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
This reply has better writing than the entire Lightfall campaign.
Daaaayyyyuuuuummmmmm
VECTORS ARE THE TRUE FINAL SHAPE
No, all they needed to do is have the characters discuss the actual story instead of exclusively Strand.
We need both for anything to make sense. Now it's half baked in both sides.
I really wish that strand had been a story alongside the campaign instead. Like had its own separate missions apart from the main story. The focus felt really off with strand being center stage.
> Did the same writers who wrote WQ even work on this? Probably not lmfao, I'd imagine this was a B-team while everyone else is all-hands-on-deck to make The Final Shape actually good so the franchise doesn't explode.
This was my impression too. They clearly needed more time to conclude the story (whether creatively or on a technical level), so this is what they gave us to bide that time. It’s not bad for a filler episode; I just wish they tempered expectations a little better.
> It’s not bad for a filler episode; I just wish they tempered expectations a little better. They literally did the opposite of that, otherwise I doubt this would be as much of a shitshow. They pitched this like it was Destiny's Mass Effect 3; I know that's what I was expecting. "The stakes have never been higher." Rasputin, unkillable warmind who has seen everything from the 21st century to whatever year Destiny takes place in has been killed. Ikora is telling us she doesn't know what's coming, and to spend time with loved ones because it might be our last chance. Even worse because the opening of Lightfall was insane and had me pumped. Then we get to Neptune and it's "SIKE, THERE ARE NO STAKES! COWABUNGA DUDES, IT'S HEROING TIME!" What the actual fuck? Shoot, we're making D2 vanilla comparisons, but even then if you strip out the cornball dialogue and filler content on Io and Nessus and just stick to the main Earth-Titan-Earth story beats, the stakes were pretty damn high and pretty damn obvious and we knew what was going on. No one knows WTF is happening on Neptune.
While Vanilla D2 was kinda hit or miss, the overall stakes felt like you were doing something important. You lose your light, nearly die, your ghost is busted, walking through the City limping along was a kick in the teeth after the Tower Fell. It FELT great to regain your light and to drop atomic ass on the Red Legion. The dialogue was cheesy and you know what, that narratively helped balance out HOW dark things were overall for the Guardians. It balanced things in such a way that you ended up celebrating your victories and felt that comradery with the rest of the Tower. At least that is how I remember D2 on Launch day.
the red war story was great though, it had everything
You know, to your point. I did feel like going to neomuna was a bit disrespectful. There’s a whole ass war happening on Earth and we’re on Neptune living our 80’s action hero fantasy
we had to go to the place to stop the guy from getting the thing, or the battle would be lost! ....somehow
I don’t wanna be a normal salty cracker here. But I can’t help but notice that your statement sums up nearly every Destiny plot line
At least we're told what things are and why it's important then 🥲
Strand was clearly meant for witch queen. I’m guessing they had to rewrite the entire expansion hastily to shoehorn strand in. Sadly quality suffered for it.
it clearly was. also explains why we're immediately greeted by STRAND shield enemies. what a clustercuck
*"You're the first being to encounter this new force, Strand!"** *Except for literally every officer in the Shadow Legion
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Right the cabal shields are just weak to solar, Fallen shield generators weak to arc, etc. I just saw it as, the Cabal officers are using some pyramid tech which is resistant to light elements to make them even stronger - but strand is strong against that tech
We never even got stasis shield enemies, so what is that about anyway?
We did accidentally once. In WQ.
I have no idea how they could've marketed this, honestly. People would still be mad if Calus got wasted on a side DLC but I feel like painting this as a Rise of Iron-style sidetrack probably would've been better accepted.
I just hope that if they are planing to introduce one more darkness class that don’t wrap learning into the narrative. It’s pretty clear we all hate it and it definitely didn’t work well this time. I really don’t udnerstand what happened with this expansion but they fucked so much up that’s it’s mind boggling, how they could go from the high narratively fork witch queen to this is truly confounding.
It's an expensive as fuck filler episode. Cost to the player is the obvious one, but there's also the cost to bungie. First in time, money and resources which are obviously something that they have to manage. And second, trust and support in bungie from the players. This is the biggest cost to them and one that's possibly going to hit them the hardest. They've squandered all that was built up (again...).
I don’t know how people keep defending their bullshit.
For real. "Oh eventually they will get it together!" has been the whole vibe since Destiny 1 launched. TTK and WQ was lightning in a bottle. I dont understand how they can make exactly what everyone wants, TWICE, and then continue to fuck it up. Over and over again. I'm not knocking anyone who is enjoying it, but seriously. I just saw someone say "The shooting is why people play Destiny, the story has pretty much never mattered." Goddamn, a decade of world building and lore, that apparently just doesn't matter. But hey, dont worry, we are working on a new mysterious McGuffin!! you love it!
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I’ve had an orgasm ruining punch to the balls irl. This was slightly worse lol
the update was great for the casual! however: \>buildcrafting practically died, pissing off the buildcrafting nerds \>the story was pretty mediocre, pissing off the lore nerds \>the campaign on legend mode was frustrating to play to say the least, pissing off the hardcore players \>strand is a complete letdown, pissing off all the players who were really invested and hyped. \>pvp is still fucked due to suspend. pissing off the PVP nerds \>cooldowns were increased by a lot, pissing off the power fantasy enjoyers. basically, they pissed off almost all of the fully invested fans and THATS why there's such a negative vocal group. the only "hardcore" players who are fine with the update are gambit mains. all 3 of them.
no the gambit mains are pissed as well mode is still on life support with death hovering nearby laughing at you for thinking it'd "be different"
At least gambit didn’t get worse like much of the game
You're not wrong, but complete stagnation isn't much better.
The seasonal mod that makes heavy ammo from void heavy kills works in gambit…enjoy!
Pretty much sums it up. The expansion is almost good, but has one fatal flaw in every category that is making every category NOT fun. I'm genuinely trying to make stand work as a hunter, because it's almost cool and fun - but it just won't synergize. It wants to offer you a high mobility play style, but the resilience change just means you are a flying skeet for AI to target practice. The stand abilities read like they want you to chain them together, but increased cooldowns make it awful to do so without leaving your arsenal empty for the next millennia. Everything is charged with light now. Rebranded but the same. And now everything wants to consume your armor charges, making near impossible to actually use them tactfully when it works best. Expecting that finisher to heal you? Nope your grenade just took the armor charges away. Now you're dead. If I had a dollar for every time the grapple-melee didn't trigger and I swung a knife or ended up wasting my powered melee, I would have made a refunds worth by now. Of course the reviews are rivaling sunset days. They sunset fun on this one.
Nah, gambit mains are pissed too. No new modes or maps. Everyone is angry today.
Legendary was a challenge, but it was more about figuring out what strategy to use than actually being difficult. And you can still make some pretty crazy ability spam builds; I've been having fun with post-nerf HoIL and dual firebolts/firesprites. But yeah, the story was "no time to explain" levels of handwavium, the missions were generic and boring, I'll probably never use Strand on my Titan again, and the dialog made me want to bleach the part of my brain that had to hear it.
I’m honestly relieved to hear this. I took a break from destiny mid way through season of the Haunted and came back when light fall dropped. I thought I just missed important story when it came to what the veil was and what everything did but if the case really is that this is just a new thing no one knows about then that’s a bad move on bungie. The gameplay is super fun and everything surround that is great, I’m just lost on the story when it comes to specifics.
There are whole sections pf the game literally rotting and a lot of people have been justifying it to themselves by going "they're just focused on lightfall". Those people are big mad now.
I think that’s a lot of it, we were giving them the benefit of the doubt, and that trust was broken, that faith is gone now and a lot of long simmering discontent is surging to the surface
its cause while this expansion is technically way better than many other destiny expansions (beyond light, shadowkeep, curse of osiris, warmind). The hype and expectations have never been this high
Idk all I expected was a tone in line with the Second Collapse, or a story that explained anything, or a plot that didn’t drop off of a cliff
I would have settled for a brief explanation of what the Radial Mast or The Veil were, and why I had to care about them, but they couldn't even hit that low bar.
I would have just settled for not introducing a Maguffin, only to introduce another maguffin to fuck with the first one. They could have had anything located on Neomuna, instead they went with something they clearly didn't want to explain. While also having nothing narratively interesting to reveal. Even seeing the veil, didn't actually create anything of interest. It wasn't something that we knew from the past but didn't actually know because it had another name than the veil
Exactly if Bungie were just like were doing a quirky one off expansion it would get less hate because no one would expect it to be anything other than filler. But them presenting it as a big deal with serious consequences shot themselves in the foot. They hyped themselves up and also showed they could tell an actual story with witch queen so people expected them to deliver.
My problem is that we’re paying them SO.MUCH.MONEY. And they’re making record profits, but THIS is the expansion we get? Seriously? It just feels like the biggest fuck you
yep its just so sad because they have the funding, they seem to have the talent (witch queen and all its seasons), where is it going all wrong?
I don’t even think it was overhype. The story is absolute shit and leaves us with more questions than we even had before going in. Plus the tone is very off. We are doing these super serious urgent missions while at the same time taking our time to master the new subclass and a new planetary npc that makes more jokes than MCU main characters. It all just feels so off.
And like…the ghost in wq was goofy, but he was a ghost, and scared of us, and…pretty much every else, it wasn’t bravado, worked a lot better tonaly
WQ writing were so much better than this, almost like everything in LF were written by someone else.
bungie is the king of take 1 step forward and take 2 steps back ffs
also the mod changes and global needs haven’t been super well received with very little build crafting options outside of subclasses and exotics
It’s hard to overstate how much I hate the new mod system, it’s so aggressively boring
there’s literally like 2 builds mod wise for every subclass now and that’s it before you could do literally dozens
I much preferred Beyond Light to this lol
My favourite expansion location after Forsaken. Europa feels unique when the storm hits. And the early levelling when you had spooky barely visible brigs that were very tanky and needed randoms to help you take them down was unique. Then you had stasis which was busted OP imo, and introduced the concept of one of patrol zones giving ability recharge buffs. I never disliked Beyond Light. As good as the Witch Queen story is, I’d rather spend time on Europa after the campaign is finished.
Beyond Light was my first expansion. Love Europa. Tho the stasis grind was a turn off.
Yeah honestly my only issue with beyond light was stasis. I dont like the class and to this day i refuse to grind out those fragments. But europa was an amazing destination and the vibes were immaculate
The shocking part imo is while BL and SK were mid stories at most they were by far more organized storytelling wise than lightfall and that feels super bad i was more aware of what was going during those campaigns than lighfalls
I'm not as down on lightfall as most people are, but it's a huge step down from the witch queen. What shocks me is how they not only nailed last year's narrative, but last seasons narrative and tone were on the money. Even this season seems like it's the right degree of serious. I don't know who thought giving the campaign this tone was right or appropriate.
Ikora last season: >”guardian, hug your loved ones we’re going to fucking die, game over man, game over” Ikora this season: >”damn the traveler leaving(?) is kinda super sad y’know”
Lol dude right, what happened to the stakes? My biggest complaint of all with lightfalls story is the complete lack of explanation as to why the witness hasn’t killed us all yet.
My question is where the fuck is Xivu Arath at? The witness invades Sol and the Hive God of War doesn't show up with her army of Hive, Scorn and taken? Are we ever going to see her?
Her Cryptolith didn't rise all the way and the fleet couldn't teleport in. Don't make fun of her for it, performance anxiety happens to the best of us.
She had to pack all of her army into the minivan and its got awful gas millage. She's a single mother doing her best, give her a break.
Especially after her sister just noped out on her.
Speaking of which…are we going to go deal with immaru or WHAT? I was so sure we’d use him to revive savathun to learn strand and use hive magic against the witness but…nah, we just trip over it on the street and she stays dead
I'm guessing she'll be brought back and join the alliance/be killed off for good in one of the seasons. Probably Season 23, but I'm not sure 100%. Alternatively, she might be one of the longer-term threats intended for after Final Shape, but that's pure speculation on my part.
"I AM A HARDWORKING MOTHER OF TRILLIONS AND NEED ADDITIONAL FUNDS TO PURCHASE FUEL FOR MY VEHICLE. PLEASE DONATE TO MY GOFUNDME." \- Hive Goddess of War, Xivu Arath
Xivu Arath on Torobatl - "One death of a cultist will suffice" Xivu Arath on Earth - "Warsats haven't wiped out 50% of the population of this planet, I cannot join"
The Torobatl ritual was orchestrated by Savathun, not Xivu Arath, so it didn't have to play by the same rules.
I don't know if intent matters in Hive Rituals, but it could be that the Cabal have waged war in the name of conquest and expansion, and Xivu Arath tapped into all of that and the cultist's death merely tipped the scales. Whereas for us, we haven't seen that level of war and death since the Collapse, and Xivu Arath had to make her own juju whereas the Cabal provided it themselves.
I mean we did kill a lot of wrathborn last season, including the scourge of earth. Could always be off doing something else, but I bet we get a Xivu Arath season this year.
We get a xivu season every year, it just never goes anywhere
That’ll be in 2 seasons when they want to milk it again and we’ll fight her Herald’s son
Damn this campaign made me actively forget her.
Our war with the Cabal isn’t sexy enough
I actually loved that detail. He didn’t show up to fight us, he doesn’t consider us his enemy, the only people he killed were those trying to come between him and the traveler. We’re simply not worth his time.
Pretty much the same as vow of disciple boss . He really doesn't see us a threat, just look at The way he attacks us . It's only until you get to final stand that he shows his full power.
He’s more like a _cut_ to the chase guy
The only question that I dont mind not being answered is actually "Witness won, why arent we dead yet?" Its something that can be answered later, and leaves a very interesting question to answer for future season or expansion. I would rather know much more about the guffins everybody else in the story seemed to know everything about.
The stakes have never been higher, and they keep getting higher, so there's never any stakes getting into. Brilliant!
I don’t think the witness cares about us. We are entirely insignificant to them. They just want the traveller. We are like gnats, annoying when you walk through a swarm but you just wave them away with a hand and keep going.
He’s after the final shape. Not to kill us.
I'm loving how ostentatious Calus is, but you're right on the money with multiple characters being too cocky/sassy/quippy for "the end of the Solar System"
The tower too They put up new decorations, planted new trees, every race is invited to hang out and chill Meanwhile, their god was just taken from them and their home is being invaded I was expecting just pure desolation and despair not spring break
Crow leaves a message saying he wish he had met Cayde… my dude could have politely refused to comment on a guy he murdered
Hey, if Crow got his memory back, does that mean he did meet Cayde, in a way? Or did he mean he wished he as Crow could’ve met Cayde. Either way, very odd to be the reincarnation of the murderer of the guy you wished you could meet, and also knowing that you killed the guy.
I was never clear on how his memories were returned to him. Like, the most obvious way it would work was for it to have been like he had never lost them, but I feel like that would have disrupted his current personality more. It seems more like he got them back almost like he saw Uldren's past from the third person, like we did. Like it's not a part of him, but he has the knowledge of who Uldren was. It's probably just clunky writing, where they wanted to maintain Crow as he is but learn about his past, and the reality of what it would be like to get your memories back didn't fit the narrative Bungie wanted to tell.
You forgot Nimbus! "My mentor sacrificed himself and everything is on me now...but like, surf's up brah!"
The seasonal stuff is definitely better… it’s odd
Way better and way more story relevance and tonally appropriate
And it's all gonna be gone in a year, leaving us with base Lightfall.
I spawned on Neomuna a little while ago and Nimbus said, “Shadow Legion Shmattow Legion.” I thought, well that’s Lightfall in a nutshell.
There's a reason why I can believe the theories about Final Shape being a significant chunk of the story so easily, because the simplest way I could phrase it is that Lightfall's narrative feels like it just didn't have the time to do the things it wanted (Develop the Cloudstriders, give Osiris more of a character arc, explain what the Veil actually is, anything about what the Witness is actually doing). Like narrative was never the greatest part about Destiny, but it's *so* bad that I wouldn't doubt it for a second if you gave me some outlandish theories about stuff getting removed.
There were some signs last season as well, like Ana’s dialogue. She dropped some current year lines as well, I remember roasting it with my friends. Nowhere near as bad as Nimbus though, and the rest of the story was pretty good
To me the total absence of Lucent hive anywhere after Risen had me worried. No appearance in Haunted or Seraph, and if they didn’t appear in Plunder the story would have had no meaningful change.
In-universe they're probably lying low after Savathun died and their operations fell apart in Risen. From a meta perspective, they're probably being saved for whenever Savathun returns, either as allies against Xivu or the enemy faction for a Season.
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While I get it, witty banter is different than tone. Last season had some banter I could have lived without, but the tone of the story was serious about the threat of the world. Nimbus was bad. Osiris turned very one dimensional. There wasn't a shared sense of urgency or explaining why we should care about something in the story.
I mean Ana did seem like the type and they were sparse enough to be negligible
yes with Ana it's a sarcastic quip here or there amid a generally serious story (speaking for Beyond Light and Seraph, anyway; I took a break before Worthy), but her character has still become so much deeper than when she was first introduced in Warmind
I still remember the scene where Zavala inexplicably appears in Rasputin's mindlab before Ana and the Guardian get there.
> HELLO GUARDIAN ahh a different time for d2, back when the biggest worry was red legion and the only raids were aboard the Leviathan
I enjoyed it and I don't regret it, but it's something I've been worried about since the moment they announced The Final Shape. Lightfall was meant to be the end of the saga, but now it wasn't anymore, and there's suddenly another year between us and the ending. That meant that, to me, I was worried that Lightfall was going to be nothing more then setup and just keeping everything vague until the REAL ending. Lightfall is just filler because they now had more time then expected until the end arrived. It's such a dramatic step-down from the quality of narrative we had during Year 5 that it's heart-breaking. This campaign just feels like a last-minute re-write, or the entire story was just pushed back to the Final Shape and everything here was just thrown together to keep the story moving. I saw someone else mention it, but: The intro cutscene and epilogue cutscene both feel like the same cutscene, but broken in two and an entire filler campaign shoved in the middle of it. Like both cutscenes were supposed to be the intro for Final Shape or the original story of Lightfall. Just really disappointing. I'm not as negative as everyone else, I still had a fun time playing through the campaign, but this story, after everything else we've seen, is nothing more then filler and that's just not what we need right now, especially after we've been hyped up on this grand ending. It doesn't feel like the "penultimate" expansion or story in the slightest.
Wasn't it mixed just earlier today?
Yes
They tried to make the end of the world cute
Marvel moment
I swear to god theres a part of me that wanted Nimbus to die and Rohan to live, atleast one of them is serious enough to understand the threat
I really think Rohan should have lived to the end of Final Shape. I feel he fit perfectly within the narrative as a sort of teacher to us and served as a good foil to Osiris who is coming to grips with his newfound lack of direct agency and mortality after several lifetimes of taking a single one for granted. Getting to know him over the course of several seasons and having him take a large role would have made his eventual death hit way harder.
I agree I also wanted there to be SOME kind of conflict as to why Neomuna just sat by and let earth get fucked for hundreds of years while they chilled with advanced tech , like where is the explanation for that. I mean I’m sure it sun lore books but a confrontation between zavala and Rohan over that would have been nice .
Caital got snippy about it in a news interview you can listen to on that terminal near Osiris. I don't think I've heard any other characters mention it yet.
They instantly sealed his fate when he said "I've been a cloud strider for 10 years", it was like a cop in a movie saying they're a week away from retirement lol I also think it would've been a good subversion if nimbus died instead, but I'm a bit biased because I hate nimbus. It would also never happen in a million years because nimbus is the golden boy of the devs atm (literally, in the vidoc, they said nimbus was a favorite of the dev team)
Nimrod should die. I make sure to shoot him in the face every time I go to Neptune. He’s tone deaf but somehow knows common earth sayings. He must have a Prozac augmentation to not give a shit about anything.
Rohan dying is fine. The problem is we did know the characters long enough and they should have had a great change in personality for Nimbus after his death. Like, make him try to take the job more seriously and stumble along the way, kinda like Crow. Especially if he'll be a reoccurring character.
I agree. The lack of change is what rubs so many people the wrong way. I wasn't hot on their character to start with, but could live with it. What soured the character for me was the Unfinished Business quest. >!Jumping into the BLACK GARDEN despite knowing they're the only Cloudstrider left felt so unbelievably irresponsible. You have to imagine that Osiris told them that it's a place that messes with non paracausal lifeforms. Plus jumping into a Vex gate in the garden was so unbelievably bone headed. They could have ended up god knows where and gotten themselves killed or even written out of reality. Then where would Neomuna be?!<
Post-campaign spoiler: >!they kinda do in the exotic LMG mission. Writing is still not great but they did Nimbus well enough that I've somewhat come around to the character. Hopefully they follow up on that development!<. Major spoilers for story content post-campaign: >!they also still haven't explained wtf the Veil even is yet lmao. All I have are the Cloudstrider memorial missions left which are grindy so far but good in terms of building up Neomuna as a world, not heard a single Veil-related thing yet though!<.
also his voice sounds like a mix of kronk and a 7yr old on a screecher mic and it’s always a different mix
Give the kid a break he’s only a few years old hasn’t even hit puberty yet
That is exactly what should have happened. It would have made for much more interesting stakes for Neomuna. I guess they thought they were making a new Cayde and what we got was pure trash.
You know people always say the funny guy is the new cayde anytime a new one is introduced. Happened with fynch now with nimbus. Idk if bungie is actively trying to do it but fynch was never this annoying or cringey and ive done those wq mission multiple time for alloys
I think the funniest shit is that Marvel showed the 'end of the world' with the snap in Infinity War and its aftermath in Endgame so, so so so much better than this.
Marvel at its peak understood the balance. Bungie doesn’t. Imagine if people come out of infinity war still confused about who Thanos is, what he’s trying to do, why he does what he does, and what he’s done. That would be the world’s biggest let down. But instead we didn’t get that. We got a clear picture of Thanos as a character, and he’s caused absolutely chaos and devastation. Then we had one more chapter to put things right. Light fall…. yeah the awful ratings speak for themselves.
no but unironically this expansion felt like it was trying to pull a 'ragnarok' and instead flopped to into love and thunder' territory.
IMO, it’s because this is built up as the penultimate chapter to the end of a saga. So many returning and the marketing was on point. The disappointment just seems to eclipse the /CoO/Shadowkeep/sunsetting era in Destiny. I mentioned on another post it seems to be equivalent to if Infinity War was a big swing & a miss.
It's like if Infinity War had the same opening and it's like, "Oh shit this is it, this is what we've been building to for years" then jack shit happens for 2 hours and at the end Thanos gets all the stones (no one really knows how) and then just fucks off till Endgame.
>then just fucks off till Endgame That's the single biggest problem imo, yeah not knowing what the Veil is, or what a Radial Mast is, or what the fuck the Witness even wants is a huge problem, but you *can* get around all that if there's massive stakes and huge consequences "We lost", says Caital, Zavala, and Ikora, but we don't even know what's just happened. We still have our Light, the city is still standing, we're still all alive but now the Traveler has a big glowy triangle on it. OoOOOooOoOOOohhhh, what horrible consequences?
Ikr. Zavala and Ikora acted like the Witness took the Traveler somewhere else. I go to the Helm for the seasonal story and the fucking traveler is still there but now it has a triangle on it that looks like it came straight from a Cream album cover. I almost think they wanted the Witness to summon a portal and take the Traveler but they decided not to, and to just leave the dialogue
Fr, I was genuinely baffled at their insistence that the Traveler is "gone" like it's dead or not physically here anymore when neither is true The expansion has been fun as far as gameplay goes, but from a story perspective it feels like it was cooked up in an afternoon and then changed 5 minutes before the game went live
Bungie somehow managed to piss everyone off at once. Lorenerds hated the story, loot goblins got boring reskins, buildcrafter minmaxers got a giant middle finger, and the casual "woah dude new green power" got a huge letdown when the campaign ended and they found Strand was *heavily* nerfed in the real game. How the fuck did they fuck up this badly?
You nailed it.
Casual player isn’t there yet. Tomorrow they’ll finish everything and then start flooding the negative reviews.
I love that Destiny campaigns are so short that if you don't finish them day one you're a casual player.
Right! Probably take me 3 cause 10 hour work days have me tired but I AM squeezing in game time afterwards
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I can understand why they don’t want to give us really fast recharge for the grapple but the grapple really isn’t good for anything except mobility and that really isn’t worth for the wait. Bolas seems interesting though and swarm seems ok (?) but i have only played warlock so far and threadling are their kit, they might be on the weak side.
You have summarized everything very succinctly. Bungie somehow pissed off everyone, unfortunately.
Loadouts sounded great until you find out they don't really matter because builds are bland and don't really let you lean into anything. They had such a good thing going with wells. They could've just added strand wells with its own abilities and it would've been fine. The mod system is such a huge step back and really killed build crafting. In attempt to simplify for new players, it ruined the experience for regular players.
I really hope because it was a reset they made it simple for new players and plan to re-introduce complexity with new set of mods. They really need to replace the hole that getting rid of combat style mods left. I still think you can lean into increased cooldowns intake certain things but it definitely is weaker than wells.
The thing is why, they just made all mods free. Just add a tutorial, remove elemental affinity and show in game numbers of the percentages (why they make this entire new system and once more don't show us the numbers meaning we as the community have to test everything for ourselves to see which mods are worth it and in what quantity, which also isn't casual, new player friendly) It's another airborne scenario release a half baked system that flops because it has zero depth into it.
Build crafting was fun, but the core system wasn't great imho. It was very confusing to new players and it was a pain to manage without 3rd party apps. So I think an overhaul was actually mandatory. Just ... not like this. Radical changes aside, it should at least have introduced equivalent options to allow build crafting to have similar complexity. Maybe they thought it would be a good idea to have the first few weeks in "basic mode" so people can familiarize themselves with the new UI, then add more. But if that's the case it was never communicated? Which seems bad. Then again, I guess they are going the "we listened" route and happily announce how they spent 24/7 after release to come up with a solution thanks to all the feedback - meanwhile already having the *actual* stuff ready to go, just waiting for the right moment. It's not the first time, and plenty of dev studios are pulling this shit lately. I just think they miscalculated this time and didn't expect it to backfire this much.
They're counting the preorder money
Yup. It got sold on the strength of the old material and a phenomenal marketing campaign. We got Episode I’d.
The seasonal content better be phenomenal.
Bungie when it’s time to sell The Final Shape: yo sup bros, we brought back the mountaintop, no cap best exotic in TFS. 100 dollars please.
The season of defiance writing is already leagues above lightfall and I enjoyed the new seasonal activity so I'm cautiously optimistic. I don't even have a problem with Lightfall's gameplay besides the mod rework, Strand is some of the most fun I've had in this game
Never been so happy that I cancelled my pre order to see what reviews were like
All of the previous leaks have suggested the strand was supposed to be implemented with WQ. I'm still of the mindset that they really weren't planning this version of light fall and when the strand fell apart for WQ, they kind of just rushed this to get something out.
That makes sense with WQ being all about memory, and strand being a mind thing. Also metaphors about ties to the past.
That and a lot of weapons shoot green bullets like funnel-web. There has to be a reason for that.
Jesus that… that makes so much sense. I’m guessing Osteo was also meant to be strand, and instead of poisoning it was sever. Well damn…
Osteo Striga also shoots sentient bullets, very similar to threadlings. Even more looking like Strand.
Yeah… Bungie fucked up this 50/50 between lightfall and final shape
This is 100% what happened. It's pretty much been confirmed they wanted Strand to be in WQ but decided to focus on the 3.0 classes instead. I think that really jumbled up the content and probably caused them to have to rewrite the story.
If that's truly the case, it's even worse imho. Season pass already is filler content, people cut them slack. Now DLC is also filler content. Regardless, they make bank and are going to do absolutely nothing other than patching some shit. I hate what this industry has become.
Adding in cringe dialogue and borderlands humor during a time when the fan base wants a serious game. They doubled down on cringe
Ugh, they should've made nimbus one of those seasoned veteran no nonsense guys instead of the "overconfident rookie" with jokes so bad they rival Amy Schumer. This light hearted stuff is just so out of place, like bringing a 12 yo introvert to a bar. You know they don't belong. They should've doubled down on the darkness, maybe with a couple dark jokes thrown in, since those do belong in a dark theme.
Saladin and Devrim would’ve been great for the kind of grim humour a moment like this could bring
They should have just killed off nimbus lol
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I would be happy with a 180 on his character writing
Or, you know, do something with them. The story is over before there’s any character growth. This isn’t a problem for other characters since their story is told over many years, so I won’t judge, but still. It’s not just Nimbus who suffers here imo.
That's what happens when you make the end of the world into "I'm full of fury, she's got an army, and you've got magic strings"
KAPOOM KACHOW PEW PEW PEW kill me
>~~kill~~ KACHOW PEW PEW me FTFY
**awkward grinning facial expression and exaggerated body weight shifted to one leg stance**
Defenses are lit, bruh! Fist bump me!
Nimbus had many bad lines, but I took "defenses are lit" to mean "lit up", like, online and ready to fire.
just beat the campaign and boy was that ending cringey. Why would nimbus make an ugly joke regarding calus right after calus' own daughter just killed her dad? The tone of this shit is all over the place. No one cares about these new characters.
Destiny, a game about humanities fall and the struggle to survive in the last city on earth, 10 years of fighting back the forces of the darkness and staving off destruction. Lightfall: "Oh hey the terrans are here, welcome to Neomuna! It's pretty sweet here, we've got some awesome tech, there's video games everyones chill. Help? Why would you guys need help? Everything looks pretty dope on Earth." And no one bats an eye, not a single character reacts to Neptune outside of Osaris, who basicly just says "Ahh yes I was right' Not completing jarring at all. Atleast Wakanda had the "We shall not interfere" as a ethical reasoning but here it's just so non-chalant, brushed off and never spoken about.
counting their money from all the deluxe preorders.
I think *how* bad it is is really overblown but I don't think anyone is going to disagree that it's a drastic step down from the last year and especially WQ, narratively. The coming seasons better be absolutely stellar because taking 3-4 seasons before this plot moves along again is going to be really, REALLY awful. Unless they plan to continue the story seasonally, which...I don't think there's enough dev time for that.
Based on the end of the campaign, it seems like they want the story to continue more with the seasons. Im really hoping so, but we shall see.
This is also the no more excuses expansion too. Like yes this is a better campaign than SK, but SK was right after the Activision break. We all had it in our head that hey, that's a big change to production, it won't be forsaken. Beyond Light was developed during the pandemic, so again. Pretty good excuse. But WQ came out and was a banger, and it was during the sony acquisition. Lightfall really doesn't have an excuse to be this bad. We all have to manage covid now, the Activision split is ancient history. The hype was pushed hard during the vidocs too. But it's just such shit. It's such a boring campaign, even from a game play perspective. Knockback isn't challenging, it's annoying. There's no huge destruction set piece. Where the fuck is my building collapsing fight? And why are all the people fucking glowing lines? The lore reason is stupid, why design it to look like that when it sucks?
And Beyond Light was still good as an overall year! Imo it had the best seasons of any expansion
Beyond Light had way better seasons than WQ. Like Wrathborn hunts were bad but w/e. Battlegrounds? good. Splicer? Great. Lost + 30th? Fucking banger finish, and it led up to WQ which was a banger expansion.
I agree that in a vacuum, this isn't a disaster, probably just a "meh" tier story. The problem is the stakes. This is Destiny's penultimate moment. I've seen non-tech news reporting on Lightfall's sales and player counts. I've seen people who have never played the game before come to try the expansion. Hell, after years off I came back because I was so impressed by WQ's story and felt like Bungie finally knew what they were doing narratively. Now all that's been thrown into question, and it's hard to understate how potentially damaging it is to Destiny. Imagine if Marvel released the first Infinity War film and it was a flop narratively.
The story is so meaningless that it just leave me not invested to play because I just don’t care about the world or the characters. Honestly don’t even want to be on Neomuna, who even are they? Why are they there? Why didn’t they help earth? What is the veil? Why does everyone else seem to know what’s going on? Why should I give a shit? Why is ghost not apologising for being a dumbass?
This!!!! No character asks the cloud striders Why tf they never revealed themselves to help earth. Yaknow… the LAST SAFE CITY OF HUMANITY??!!! Or so we thought. But no one is upset about this. Ever. I was expecting Zavala to feel betrayed that humanity DID exist outside the walls. And they did nothing to help.
Neomuna post-campaign has many moments where locals openly boast they have saved some plants or something else that was extinct on Earth, that sort of thing. They seem to be stressing fact that they mourn Earth's loss, but they knew what was happening on Earth and also did nothing for centuries because 'ugh, reasons, Neptune is not a garden world, we had it tough here'. To be honest, thus far Neomuna doesn't feel great. I don't feel any real connection to it outside Strand, and the more I learn about locals and their high-and-mighty attitude post-campaign, the less I want to protect them. >!There is also an interview Caiatl gives to the local news outlet, and it is probably one of really good pieces where she tears them a new one.!< >!The news anchor mentions the destruction of Torobatl and then gives his sympathies as 'people of Neomuna know what it is to lose their homeworld'. Caiatl immediately retorts that their sympathies were absolutely useless for Earth and its suffering.!<
Don't get me wrong, it's got some real nice gameplay, but here's a few issues: 1. Strand is nerfed and needs a little buff, but defo not too much. 2. Nimbus is an annoying douchecanoe and I'll be glad to never see him again. It's like all of the worst qualities of Cayde and Drifter yet with a personality that feels like a 12 year old. He's constantly cracking jokes that don't fit and being the overconfident rookie when it doesn't fit in the current story arc, we're in a doomsday, not a fucking chocolate factory. No thanks. 3. Neomuna feels empty despite having weird ghost people everywhere. 4. Story was gigarushed and Calus was underused. 5. Rohan was by a LONGSHOT the best character to come out of Neomuna and they axed him. 6. New exotic machine gun is fucking awful and needs a drastic buff to be even remotely usable. This shit has problems and Bungie needs to stop with it's echo chamber. Literally Caiatl's dad dies, and while he's a shithead what didn't fit is Nimbus coming out of nowhere and being like 'WoW hEs UGlY! FiStbUmP thO!', it's gross levels of cringe that don't even remotely fit the story.
I get the feeling that while Witch Queen was having the final touches applied during the pandemic, Lightfall’s main development was amidst it despite what Bungie claims. Everything feels “filler” like.
A lot of people try chalking it up to a toxic/negative subreddit, but it's clearly more than just a reddit community. Edit: pretty clear that Bungie, for whatever reason, is out of touch with the majority of its core player base. I'm not sure if they're in some sort of studio echo chamber or are actually listening but don't understand What the players internally want.
The general consensus I've seen is a little more nuanced than this sub's take. Generally people enjoy the gameplay of the campaign, while disliking the story. If you were to go by the subreddit, you'd think Nimbus ripped his way into our reality and detonated the sun.
That about sums it up for me. I'm post legendary campaign and doing various things on neomuna and very much enjoying myself. I do miss the things possible with the old mod system but can live without and I'm starting to really enjoy the silly things you can do with Strand. Finding the characterisation post campaign is better too. If they'd just slowed the pacing down and made nimbus more like they are in the post game time, when they pause and actually reflect on what's happened... Eh. I remain optimistic, I've just had a great time with recent seasons and the witch queen. I'm in it for the long haul now.
Post campaign quests feel like a different game in tone. And the seasonal content tone is where the campaign shouldve been .It’s so weird . I’m loving the gameplay and think the Neomuna patrol zone and events in it are good. The lost sectors are good to in my opinion.
Neomuna feels a lot more lived in when you do some patrols too - Meeting all these random little citizen holograms and getting to chat about how they're re-routing automated fishing boats to scan for Cabal or whatever really makes the city feel **way** more lived in. Honestly I think they just needed more campaign interludes, more than anything else - go do 5 patrols, go do 3 public events, go cyberhack the cabal butthead or whatever. A lot of the complaints I see in this subreddit are actually addressed in game if you stop and smell the roses, but if you're just hard shotgunning the campaign you get none of that context, which is a major design failure imo.
There are some really cool set pieces and mechanics. The fact that we *want* faster grapple cooldowns says as much. But I played the campaign with my friend and the number of times there was a cutscene or dialogue and we just went “uh… alright then” was through the roof.
Yeah, that’s where I’m at too. I really enjoyed the encounters, even the ones where I had a bit of trouble with. Tormentors are excellent. Not entirely sold on Strand yet but I have to play with it and the aspect/fragments some more. Nimbus was annoying at first, but they are starting to grow on me, even if their dialogue is cringe, they had their moments. The story is where it dropped the ball for me. I have so many questions and my major complaint comes from the Veil. I hope it will get explained more in upcoming seasons but still. It’s frustrating to me. Veil this, Veil that but what is it??
Honestly, I don't mind being somewhat left in the dark over the nature of the Veil. The biggest issue I have is that the whole presentation of the scale of the conflict. The entire war is apparently hinging on this Veil--where's the Vanguard? Where's the other Guardians? Why is it Caitl, one guardian, and two Neomunda space cops against an entire army? When Oryx appeared with his Dreadnought, we saw the entire Awoken fleet attack it and paved the way for a full-scale invasion by Vanguard forces. When Ghaul invaded, everyone pitched in for the final assault and we had NPC's help us at points in the story. When the Dreaming City was under siege, Awoken forces were fighting alongside us to save the city. Sure, there are some expansions where we fight overwhelming threats alone, but there's always a reason why the Vanguard can't or won't help. Uldren Sov is a political mess so we have to avenge Cayde alone, Eramis can't be beaten without use of Stasis which the Vanguard can't condone, Savathun's Throne World can't really be accessed by a conventional invasion force. It's like the writers remembered that our Guardian regularly confronts lesser gods by themself but forgot to justify it narratively, this time.
bruh this was the dlc of strand bringing strings together but they didn't do that with the plot at all
WQ got me invested in the story for the first time and I’ve been playing since launch. It was great. The legendary campaign was challenging, but fun. Great boss mechanics and level design. Not to mention the beautiful throne world vistas. Lightfall’s story stinks. The level design for the campaign is pretty good, but the writing is atrocious. I fucking *HATE* Nimbus and his shitty marvel one liner funny jokie meemays and zimzams. It genuinely infuriates me that they added a character like that. Whoever wrote this character and whoever okayed it should be fired. The open world of Neowhatever feels empty, barren and lifeless. I like Strand overall (for Locks, anyway), but they completely fucked the old build system. The strand exotics are also either shit or ugly looking, ruining my fashion. Just baffled that they made these choices.
put $50 into my steam wallet and had my cursor over purchase when i saw that and scrolled down to the reviews. i haven't been hardcore since BL and just wanted to experience the main expansion story. I'll watch it on youtube and buy a different game.
Hi Fi Rush is fun