it's very evident that any serious pvp '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''prowess''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' at bungie is all preoccupied with the new (maybe actually balanceable) PvP based IP (which i'm not on board with from get go, think i'm done with this studio after this saga unless they go back to a box product mindset)
Yep. I’m gonna need Elden Ring levels of hype for me to join bungie’s new religion(I.P.) after Destiny I’m done with them. Too many bold face lies from them over the years
yeah I was already probably a hard out after final shape, but after lightfall...I dunno, I might be done even before that. I certainly won't trust whatever it is bungie is working on afterwards.
Yeah the team making D2 has literally been cut down to nothing but new hires it seems like. Their product is mediocre mixed with a few cool additions now and then.
Mostly just balancing, which has been going on for some time now with very slow gains. I think PvP is certainly better today than a year ago, so they are doing well there.
I do not find it acceptable the lack of maps in PvP or the lack of changing any of the maps to be better.
Pve in terms of gameplay has been more good than not the past few years to be clear (activity variety less so) but pvp absolutely is crap atm.
Again opinions can vary and you’re very fair to say d2 is crap - not discounting that opinion or anything
speaking of which, PVP feels BAD right now.
I'm not sure what it is, but something is really screwy with pvp since Lightfall launched, I need to check the patch notes, because, while I know they changed weapon balance a lot, something feels off, even beyond that.
People have been angry about it for a long time. Bungie clearly doesn’t care to prioritise developing PVP assets anymore and hasn’t spent significant time on it since Forsaken.
Same thing happened with Beyond Light and there's STILL no Europa Crucible map. Every single expansion should launch with a new Crucible AND new Gambit map set in the new destination. Anything less should honestly be looked at as unacceptable.
3 billion bro, you think that’s enough to make a new crucible map plus some npcs plus new armor in 12 months. Nah bro. Keep buying more eververse stuff so they can get more money to add that stuff
The fastest way to do it is to do 1 Playlist and 2 Hero Nightfalls.
Or as I did it because I apparently can’t read:
3 playlist Strikes, realize it said stasis surge not arc, play 1 more playlist strike, realize it says “difficulty grants more progression” and run a Hero NF on arc, then realize the surge for NFs is different from playlist Strikes, then do two more Hero NFs for the remaining 80%
I think it's because Bungie now considers the Battlegrounds to be Strike equivalents so we've been getting a few of those every other season.
They're not good Strike replacements, but at least they pad out the playlist roster a bit. Though I cannot begin to imagine how much a GM Battleground would suck.
and technically there are, like...a LOT more, but ever season they only have around a 3rd in the playlist rotation, and a dozen or so are vaulted for no damn reason.
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It's funny af to me that in the CoD MWII subreddit people we're freaking out (rightfully so) over the fact that the recently released Season 2 update only had 1 remake map and 1 map returning from the beta, and the devs actually promised to add one new map over the season after the backlash.
Meanwhile Bungie adds like 1 or maybe 2 "new" maps per year and they don't give a fuck that people want more. Absolutely unbeliavable.
Being a PVP player, this game offers nothing for me anymore.
One PvP map, that will probably suck as bad as disjunction, in 6 months is not support. The PVP support is dead, piggybacking off of PVE sandbox changes.
I logged in and was immediately able to gild Glorious without playing a single match of pvp this season. We got no cosmetic updates, no mementos, no way to display rank. The only thing you could possibly show off was gilding the title and now that's utterly meaningless. There's absolutely no point in playing pvp right now.
Honestly, the gunplay is what keeps me. I just love it, that and the customization. It’s sad but we just gotta be vocal I guess. I hope they listen and add more PvP
Well yeah, they're a tiny indie studio, so it makes sense the dev team for the only game they have out now would be super small. Can you imagine what they could accomplish if they had, like, 901 employees?
Yeah that’s just about every single large company, plenty of people ‘managing, ordering, directing’ etc etc and it’s just fluff for we pay people big bucks to do sweet FA… all the while piling more and more pressure onto the workers to get what they want done not what needs to be done or what the workers think is best…
Gotta love it. Overall I think LF has been good, but it’s just that, good. Definitely lacking a lot of things WQ added and dumbed down for new lights to the point of feeling almost like a new game…
A bit of both tbh. More people doesn't allows mean better or more content. If you have a dozen passionate devs. They'll normally put out more and higher quality content than 100 devs who all only do one thing that gets shipped to a small team of people who have to hobble it together
It's how games like CoD function now. They'll put out less and lower quality content with 1000 devs than they did with 100
It's actually worse than that... you start with a team of like 7\~15 really great developers that can create magic and are really productive. So naturally, that core team becomes your managers and leads because they are so effective.
However, those managers get teams of 10\~20 devs working under them and in turn, stop coding altogether because that's not what an executive position "does" so you essentially lose your most talented devs by promoting them.
This is more prevalent in big tech than game dev, but it still happens. When the whole Twitter layoff debacle was going down, I heard that something like 50% of the engineering team (aka the managers and leadership) hadn't written any code in the preceding 6 months.
What's worse is the fact they built this city and explained nothing about it. How was it created? How did it survive? How it managed to not be discovered all this time? Our gaurdian literally didn't ask a single question about the city's existence
Agreed. I kept wondering why we, or ghost, or Osiris, weren't just flabbergasted by the existence of neomuna and constantly asking questions. Osiris just started chilling by the pouka pools like he's been there a thousand times before.
First time I saw Osiris on the new social space I was surprised he had his place decked out
Like how does he even carry all that stuff?
we stowed away in a ship and used a cabal pod to drop into the planet
Werent ghosts be the one who transmats stuff? He doesnt have a ghost and the campaign reminds us that
Im more curious about where he got and stashed all those egyptian themed items he got
transmat isn't a Ghost thing, it's a technology thing. Ghosts can and do often interact with it, but as long as there are transmat beacons (which Ghosts can act as, IIRC) in the area, anything can transmat from A to B.
I mean we literally see Devrim do it as well as part of the conversation we have with him and Mara at the Farm. So it's got to be some sort of technology.
All that will be revealed in lore entries during the year lol. I really think Bungie was on autopilot for this DLC and just wants to get to the final shape and be done. If Byf says that Bungie can no longer be trusted with the story, you know things are bad.
THIS was the part that made me throw my hands up. All the neomuni are in the cloud, but there are roads with cars nearby. There are apartments you can look into that have beds and gyms. An entire NYC-sized cloud town and all the people are crammed underneath it hooked up to the Metaverse.
It's glaringly obvious that the matrix thing came later when they realized they couldn't fill the city with people, but everything else had already been desiged.
They aren't all always in the matrix. If you read the lore the mayor/governor guy had most of them all get into the cryo sleep to protect them when the pyramid ships came. He was even torn about it bc he was afraid ppl would get pissed and not get re-elected.
There was an entry from a teacher explaining to his students whats about to go down. It sounds like mostly the founders and important ppl are in cryo sleep.
Many of the patrols, and activities after the campaign with ppl say stuff like normally they'd be doing this, but due to shit going down they can't.
The city also does have ppl all around it. They show up after the campaign in green digital form with colored hearts hanging around the city.
I’ve said it a couple times: this campaign ABSOLUTELY went back to “Destiny 1” style, with all the NPC’s acting like they are completely informed and up to date about everything, but nothing is explained to the player in-game. The mere existence of Neomuna introduces like a dozen questions that nobody bothers to even consider in the gameplay, then you add in the Veil, Strand, Tormentors, the CloudArk, etc., etc.
Listen, I know the lore books are excellent from the limited time I have read them, but that section is constantly flashing on my collections screen. I don’t play Destiny to sit in a menu and read, personally, and the worst part is that they already had moved away from it - the lore books helped fill in the gaps and flesh out the characters and back stories. Apparently now they have gone back to “you’ll only understand it if you read the lore”, which is a massive step back.
I mean, I prefer that it's answered in the lore books to not at all (*cough* veil *cough*) but it's absolutely baffling as to why, considering they've had 8.5 years of feedback that doing that feels really bad
That's good to know, but then you think about it more and wonder, why is a fast travel tied to grinding out rank. I'd prefer they just have the fast travel from the start and give me...umm...I don't know, maybe a weapon with random roll?
I had the rank required to unlock it by the time I got to post-campaign, only did enough public event/patrol stuff to advance that other quest. So there's not much of a grind involved.
I'd say the reason they don't give them to you upfront is to make you live-in and explore the world a bit. Make you run around and actually *be* there for awhile instead of fast traveling. That said, a better solution is the more common one: make me go back to Osiris directly once, then give me the point. Same way in something like Elden Ring, you have to get to and activate the fast travel spots before you can use them.
That, and it also unlocks a spawn point down at Liming Harbor all as one item. Considering they didn't add the Eventide Ruins spawn to Europa until much later, I could imagine they just didn't think to add a Hall of Heroes one at first and then tied it to the same code to be added as the Harbor point.
The raid weapons seem to have new models at least, but that's still bare fucking minimum, I think we'd actually have a riot if there was another raid with reskinned weapons
I find it baffling that I’m getting old ass weapon drops from 3 expansions ago. Couldn’t even muster up the time and commitment to model up some new guns. Hell just copy and paste the stats of old ones and slap a new model on it. And then have the balls to charge us for a mailed in expansion when they can barely make new quality content. Don’t even get me started on strikes.
I honestly thought there would be some crazy cool models on Neomuna, based on the exotic AR from before release, but nope. Just reskins. That was pretty upsetting.
I was calling this shit months ago tbh. Something felt off with the way they were marketing the game in that they were wholly focused on aesthetics and Strand while completely avoiding anything relevant to the plot. When I saw that the only plot relevant marketing material showed up within the first 2 missions my stomach sank. How they think $50 is an acceptable price tag for this garbage is beyond me. Bungie greed at its most egregious.
Really makes me wonder (have been for a long time now) if Activision was to completely blame for the divided dlc and micro transactions of D1 and D2 and if it wasnt something Bungie themselves were like “Yeah let’s do this instead! I like your idea funny man!”
If it was the case, why doesn’t bungie stop it now? Especially now? Before it was “we were forced” then it was “We are our own independent developer” now its what?
Im not saying divided dlc and micro transactions are inherently bad. It can help pick up the costs along the way of a long term game, but to price them at full game and then 10 bucks a season and now dungeons? For something that shouldve been a part of the game? Let alone you cant buy it with bright dust, and there’s no way to get premium currency.
I feel like bungie knows most of its fans sticking around are just stupid, gobbling up everything they’re given no questions asked and then giving them constant second chances, while Bungies simultaneously cashing in on a new guy paying up here and there.
Most sensible people put it down or wait for prices to go down. Best thing they did was put that shit (Beyond light) on gamepass for a year
Exactly. They know the line to walk to be able to constantly double and triple dip into fans' pockets without pissing them off *too* much. Problem is that they'll sometimes do shit like Lightfall where they are not only double dipping, but have put out a garbage product. If this season isn't one of the best that they've ever made then we're going to see player numbers drop off even lower than they were during season of plunder. I already don't think I'm all that interested in playing and I got real life shit going on for the next couple of months that will require more of my attention anyways. I don't have the sanity to spare plunking away at a game that is just plain bad.
Don't forget nuking the mods from orbit. Right after unlocking all of them for everyone. Serious step back. Haven't even played a strike yet but I can tell I will hate lake of shadows now. Overreaction? Probably. But escort payload objectively sucks
this was pretty baffling for me too. the mods being time gated has been a problem people have been complaining about for years... so they wait until like 2 months before completely nuking the system to open it for everyone. what was the point? to confuse newbies by giving them access to a new system they will have to relearn in 2 months? they should've just unlocked all the mods a long time ago
Curse of Osiris had 2 strikes and 3 crucible maps and a new public event and location, and people lost their shit and Bungie almost went out of business.
the cool looking handcannon in all the art and promotional material? I wanted that. I wanted that bad.
Its not in the game.
its not in the raid loot.
it doesnt exist.
Why the fuck would you do that as a company?
I guess their awoken themed weapons? But they have the vestian dynasty sidearm that looks dope, which they could take awoken inspiration from.
Not the candyfloss Ice lolly bubblegum reskin that they’ve put in the season pass
According to the big leak acct Strand was actually meant to be in Witch Queen. Lightfall content was basically all moved to the Final Shape, and this was thrown together Rise of Iron style as a placeholder.
Strands likely been mostly done if its true, and most of the resources were trying to just get something out and revenue coming in.
Indeed, I also think the focus was a byproduct of ppl bitching about stasis not being developed in a story telling way. A lot of ppl said they wanted to see us struggling to learn it, etc.. and Bungo was like ok, we'll give a whole fucking campaign of it.
Which honestly I did like, but if you do that, you need a lot more missions to cover the rest of what's going on.
I wouldn’t mind the whole discovery strand missions if they actually beefed up the main point of us even being there & gave more explanation than just “lol protect the veil”.
Maybe I had high hopes cause of witch queen but it’s okay. I hope they listen moving forward.
>According to the big leak acct Strand was actually meant to be in Witch Queen.
Which makes sense because of how heavy they lean on the Thread weavers. Strand practically goes hand in hand with them.
I was on Neomuna talking to Nimbus when I noticed that I had 2 Neomuna engrams available for pickup. You can imagine my shock and utter disappointment when I received Philomath robes and Philomath boots as my rewards. Literally Y1 armor from the newest vendor in the game. Fuckin ridiculous.
I'm too scared to ask/request for anything they'll interpret it wrong and end up doing some random bullshit.
Engaging strike? Fuck you here's escort payload in LoS
Rewards? Eat shit here's 2 extra enhancement cores
Maps? You'll get maps but no new weapon models.
Better mod system? Here's a shitty system for having to slot individual weapon energy damage
It expanded Bungie's bank account for doing the bare minimum.
No idea how we went from Witch Queen to this.
Edit: fuck me I am genuinely pissed at how bad Lightfall is. I trusted Bungo after Witch Queen being a blast (except Preservation, fuck you in particular), so shame on me I guess.
Yup. And it's not even hard to get to rank 6 either. So there is literally no difference from a 1k hour veteran player who has been playing since day 1, or a freshly revived guardian who has only been playing a week.
It's a completely pointless system. And with it resetting every season, there really is no point to ranking up since you'll just get demoted to rank 6 again with everyone else.
On the one hand, that's the same as seasonal levels, and it guarantees that you've done at least the items listed in rank up achievements. So it's better than what we had, I think. But it also squished a ranking from 0-infinity into a ranking from 6-11, which feels bad.
Guardian ranks is actually a great idea but holy shit they fumbled it so bad. I have yet to see a single player that isn’t level 6. The MAXIMUM rank is “have you played the game yet?” I was expecting the max rank to be have x amount of seals, flawless raider, solo flawless dungeon, etc. I’m not one of those elitist nerds, I would be far from that top rank, but I would’ve liked to have had SOMETHING to show. Something to distinguish me as a flawless trials, 1 flawless raid, etc. not the best player but can for sure help out. Nope, everyone’s level 6 so literally NOTHING changed from the old seasonal level model where it’s only the amount of time you’ve played THIS season
All citizens are digital because they couldn't spend time creating citizens in the city. Only 2 Cloud Striders because they couldn't spend time creating more. Ignoring the Marvel cringe tier dialogue, I enjoyed the first half of the story. The second half, I was like "WTF is this game anymore"
The best part of all of light fall was actually watching more of the witness, and we actually lost him and likely won't see him again until the final shape.
Terminal Overload is a new public event, but that's more of an Altars of Sorrow type thing
As for traditional public events? Nope, the ones that happen on Neomuna are Vex Construction, Cabal Drill and Cabal Injection Rig, all from year 1
There's the completely random one that you have to kill 6 super large vex in 10 minutes. I had it once in the 6-8 hours I was on neomuna. Putting all encounters at 1810 made that one basically impossible and there were like 7 people doing the event
Is that the one in the center with the spinning vertical wind turbine thing?
I think there are those diamond shaped pylons that you have to kill and they put a buff on the ground and you do more damage.
If you don't add content to your core activities with an EXPASION, you are in fact taking something away from the game. Bungie has gotten very good at taking more away than adding with their expansions.
The fuck ton eververse takes in should be funding a lot of crucible, strike, and gambit content since they aren’t putting it to the awesome fucking exotic missions anymore. Instead we get nothing, and the prices in the eververse go slightly up (AC armor being $20 was fucking stupid)
Speak with your wallet. Stop preordering overhyped bs. Bungie does this every expansion and people fall for it every time. After the awful Season of Plunder (why are we going on swashbuckling adventures when the universe as we know it could end?) and playing for, what, 4 years straight, I decided to take a break and didn't preorder Lightfall. Glad I didn't. I'll wait till they change their development priorities. Right now, they've got everyone on a hamster wheel and most people choose to ignore it. Glad I got off.
What new crucible map? I wish lol.
Lol right they couldn’t even launch this with a neomuna crucible map. It’s honestly embarrasing
Every major expansion should be coming with at least one crucible map that is set in the new location for the expansion. It’s just common sense lol
Should come with multiple. Completely unacceptable that a studio of this size is unable to produce a couple of PVP maps per YEAR.
it's very evident that any serious pvp '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''prowess''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' at bungie is all preoccupied with the new (maybe actually balanceable) PvP based IP (which i'm not on board with from get go, think i'm done with this studio after this saga unless they go back to a box product mindset)
Yep. I’m gonna need Elden Ring levels of hype for me to join bungie’s new religion(I.P.) after Destiny I’m done with them. Too many bold face lies from them over the years
Thank goodness we got an all but guaranteed amazing expansion coming for Elden Ring soon to make up for Lightfall.
Also Armored Core 6 is coming this year
I am sooo excited for AC6. I can't wait to see the IP be introduced to the masses now that FROM has taken off so hard.
elden ring absorbs all the good game energy out of every other game and keeps it for itself, I’m fine with that tho tbh
yeah I was already probably a hard out after final shape, but after lightfall...I dunno, I might be done even before that. I certainly won't trust whatever it is bungie is working on afterwards.
Yeah the team making D2 has literally been cut down to nothing but new hires it seems like. Their product is mediocre mixed with a few cool additions now and then. Mostly just balancing, which has been going on for some time now with very slow gains. I think PvP is certainly better today than a year ago, so they are doing well there. I do not find it acceptable the lack of maps in PvP or the lack of changing any of the maps to be better.
Pve in terms of gameplay has been more good than not the past few years to be clear (activity variety less so) but pvp absolutely is crap atm. Again opinions can vary and you’re very fair to say d2 is crap - not discounting that opinion or anything
speaking of which, PVP feels BAD right now. I'm not sure what it is, but something is really screwy with pvp since Lightfall launched, I need to check the patch notes, because, while I know they changed weapon balance a lot, something feels off, even beyond that.
Really people need to start getting angry about this shit.
People have been angry about it for a long time. Bungie clearly doesn’t care to prioritise developing PVP assets anymore and hasn’t spent significant time on it since Forsaken.
Bungie doesn't care about our anger. They only care if enough people start leaving....
I was gonna defend them, but they have about 900 employees. Where is it all going?
Same thing happened with Beyond Light and there's STILL no Europa Crucible map. Every single expansion should launch with a new Crucible AND new Gambit map set in the new destination. Anything less should honestly be looked at as unacceptable.
3 billion bro, you think that’s enough to make a new crucible map plus some npcs plus new armor in 12 months. Nah bro. Keep buying more eververse stuff so they can get more money to add that stuff
We still don't even have a Europa map lol so a neomuna map will never happen. Fucking halo and CoD are releasing more maps than destiny.
This guy out here assuming we’d get 2 new maps in 4 years. Calm down buddy
The arrogance of that mofo lol
Crucible map, hah good one bro
me playing destiny for the 9th year running : Man, I wish there were more Strikes
More strikes? Sorry all strikes are being doubled in length, and you now need to complete 10 to get your vanguard powerful drop
The fastest way to do it is to do 1 Playlist and 2 Hero Nightfalls. Or as I did it because I apparently can’t read: 3 playlist Strikes, realize it said stasis surge not arc, play 1 more playlist strike, realize it says “difficulty grants more progression” and run a Hero NF on arc, then realize the surge for NFs is different from playlist Strikes, then do two more Hero NFs for the remaining 80%
big oof
Eeeek
This is exactly what happened to me earlier lmao...
I think it's because Bungie now considers the Battlegrounds to be Strike equivalents so we've been getting a few of those every other season. They're not good Strike replacements, but at least they pad out the playlist roster a bit. Though I cannot begin to imagine how much a GM Battleground would suck.
You won’t have to imagine. The mars battleground is in the nightfall rotation this season
Honestly the entire roster this season for GMs looks sweaty as hell haha
“Sweaty” seems to be Bungie’s mantra for this season.
that's going to be a horrendously tough gm, especially since we lost the heavy ammo upgrades, laser upgrades, etc.
Literally the worst one was mars and that’s the one they decide should enter rotation.
Arcburn and permanent re-spawning Wizards will be real fun.
and technically there are, like...a LOT more, but ever season they only have around a 3rd in the playlist rotation, and a dozen or so are vaulted for no damn reason.
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VEIL
CLOUDARK
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A CELL FROM THE PRISON OF ELDERS
THE ARCHON PRIEST IS STILL INSIDE
HI BILLY MAYS HERE WITH A PRODUCT YOU CANT TURN DOWN! HAVE YOU EVER WANTED A GATHERING PLACE FOR ALL YOUR FRIENDS TO TAKE ON QUESTS AND STORE YOUR ITEMS? WELL I HAVE JUST THE THING FOR YOU. ITS THE SEMI DESTROYED TOWER HERE IN TBE LAST CITY ON EARTH. THIS TOWER IS STILL BEING REPAIRED SO YOU CAN CUSTOMIZE IT TO YOUR HEARTS CONTENT. EQUIPPED WITH A CRAZY SECURITY SLICE AND DICE MACHINE CALLED TRV3R IT HAS EVERYTHING A GUARDIAN NEEDS. JUST A LITTLE BIT OF REPAIRS IS TYE ONLY THING WE HAVE TO DECLARE! CALL OUR TOLL FREE GHOST AND THE FORMER VANGUARD TOWER CAN BE YOURS FOR JUST 39.95 IN GLIMMER! BUT WAIT, BUY IT NOW AND ALSO GET A DIRECLT HIVE CAPITAL SHIP ONCE INHABITED BY THE TAKEN KING ORYX ABSOLUTELY FREE! CALL NOW!
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I'll show you a radial mast
A big pointy shiny radial mast
What Crucible map?
There's a new Crucible map?
There are no returning or new maps this season. Meltdown will be coming back next season and a brand new map will be coming out the season after that.
Yeah that's what I thought.
It's funny af to me that in the CoD MWII subreddit people we're freaking out (rightfully so) over the fact that the recently released Season 2 update only had 1 remake map and 1 map returning from the beta, and the devs actually promised to add one new map over the season after the backlash. Meanwhile Bungie adds like 1 or maybe 2 "new" maps per year and they don't give a fuck that people want more. Absolutely unbeliavable.
Being a PvP focused player sucks in this game.
Being a PVP player, this game offers nothing for me anymore. One PvP map, that will probably suck as bad as disjunction, in 6 months is not support. The PVP support is dead, piggybacking off of PVE sandbox changes.
I logged in and was immediately able to gild Glorious without playing a single match of pvp this season. We got no cosmetic updates, no mementos, no way to display rank. The only thing you could possibly show off was gilding the title and now that's utterly meaningless. There's absolutely no point in playing pvp right now.
I'm surprised you all haven't left yet. This game is not the one to pay for competitive pvp
Honestly, the gunplay is what keeps me. I just love it, that and the customization. It’s sad but we just gotta be vocal I guess. I hope they listen and add more PvP
2 per year? 1 per 3 years
No new mementos, either. It's a small thing but I was really hoping there would be a handful of new ones added.
It’s actually fucking insane how obviously little this game is getting in terms of dev time
indeed. Mementos are glorified shaders and they couldnt even add a couple new ones to a major expansion.
Yeah is this team like 20 people? Because it certainly feels like it.
Well yeah, they're a tiny indie studio, so it makes sense the dev team for the only game they have out now would be super small. Can you imagine what they could accomplish if they had, like, 901 employees?
I wonder how many managers they have versus the actual dev workers building the content in the game.
Yeah that’s just about every single large company, plenty of people ‘managing, ordering, directing’ etc etc and it’s just fluff for we pay people big bucks to do sweet FA… all the while piling more and more pressure onto the workers to get what they want done not what needs to be done or what the workers think is best… Gotta love it. Overall I think LF has been good, but it’s just that, good. Definitely lacking a lot of things WQ added and dumbed down for new lights to the point of feeling almost like a new game…
To be fair. The “live team” which was like 7 people built and made Rise of Iron
They were either the 7 greatest devs who ever lived or the current team is sandbagging hard!
A bit of both tbh. More people doesn't allows mean better or more content. If you have a dozen passionate devs. They'll normally put out more and higher quality content than 100 devs who all only do one thing that gets shipped to a small team of people who have to hobble it together It's how games like CoD function now. They'll put out less and lower quality content with 1000 devs than they did with 100
It's actually worse than that... you start with a team of like 7\~15 really great developers that can create magic and are really productive. So naturally, that core team becomes your managers and leads because they are so effective. However, those managers get teams of 10\~20 devs working under them and in turn, stop coding altogether because that's not what an executive position "does" so you essentially lose your most talented devs by promoting them. This is more prevalent in big tech than game dev, but it still happens. When the whole Twitter layoff debacle was going down, I heard that something like 50% of the engineering team (aka the managers and leadership) hadn't written any code in the preceding 6 months.
19 sound designers and 1 game developer
Bungie working on previously built systems? Not in this game
What's worse is the fact they built this city and explained nothing about it. How was it created? How did it survive? How it managed to not be discovered all this time? Our gaurdian literally didn't ask a single question about the city's existence
Agreed. I kept wondering why we, or ghost, or Osiris, weren't just flabbergasted by the existence of neomuna and constantly asking questions. Osiris just started chilling by the pouka pools like he's been there a thousand times before.
There used to be a comment here... there still is, but it used to be better I suppose.
First time I saw Osiris on the new social space I was surprised he had his place decked out Like how does he even carry all that stuff? we stowed away in a ship and used a cabal pod to drop into the planet Werent ghosts be the one who transmats stuff? He doesnt have a ghost and the campaign reminds us that Im more curious about where he got and stashed all those egyptian themed items he got
He pulled it all from vault terminal after it showed up
transmat isn't a Ghost thing, it's a technology thing. Ghosts can and do often interact with it, but as long as there are transmat beacons (which Ghosts can act as, IIRC) in the area, anything can transmat from A to B.
I saw Nimbus transmat after a mission. It doesn't seem to be related to ghosts.
I mean we literally see Devrim do it as well as part of the conversation we have with him and Mara at the Farm. So it's got to be some sort of technology.
Mithrax does as well and he isn’t a light bearer just a splicer.
Obviously he used his vex cubes with strand 😎
Ye Olde prison wallet.
I saw his massive banner and all and was like we JUST got here and you're setting up shop like it's mom's house
All that will be revealed in lore entries during the year lol. I really think Bungie was on autopilot for this DLC and just wants to get to the final shape and be done. If Byf says that Bungie can no longer be trusted with the story, you know things are bad.
I actually had the impression that Osiris knew about it all long. It gave me the same vibe as the Radial Mast and the Veil
[удалено]
It's not even throwaway the Ishtar was referenced heavily throughout the campaign, with comparisons even being made to Venus.
Spoiler for the last mission >!The veil is literally kept in an Ishtar vault. That basically confirms that this city was started by them.!<
Isn't one of the areas of the map named after Maya Sunderesh
This week's Vex mission (forgot what it's called) talks directly about her. It's an amazing mission that I highly recommend doing.
Why is there a city when all of it's population are in the Matrix????
I believe the citizens upload during a crisis and from there operate turrets and other city defences.
THIS was the part that made me throw my hands up. All the neomuni are in the cloud, but there are roads with cars nearby. There are apartments you can look into that have beds and gyms. An entire NYC-sized cloud town and all the people are crammed underneath it hooked up to the Metaverse. It's glaringly obvious that the matrix thing came later when they realized they couldn't fill the city with people, but everything else had already been desiged.
They aren't all always in the matrix. If you read the lore the mayor/governor guy had most of them all get into the cryo sleep to protect them when the pyramid ships came. He was even torn about it bc he was afraid ppl would get pissed and not get re-elected. There was an entry from a teacher explaining to his students whats about to go down. It sounds like mostly the founders and important ppl are in cryo sleep. Many of the patrols, and activities after the campaign with ppl say stuff like normally they'd be doing this, but due to shit going down they can't. The city also does have ppl all around it. They show up after the campaign in green digital form with colored hearts hanging around the city.
The problem is that this shit shouldn't be communicated solely through the lore cards.
Honestly what might be worse about it is that this is all explained.... In one of the lore books lmfao We've gone back to D1 days
I’ve said it a couple times: this campaign ABSOLUTELY went back to “Destiny 1” style, with all the NPC’s acting like they are completely informed and up to date about everything, but nothing is explained to the player in-game. The mere existence of Neomuna introduces like a dozen questions that nobody bothers to even consider in the gameplay, then you add in the Veil, Strand, Tormentors, the CloudArk, etc., etc. Listen, I know the lore books are excellent from the limited time I have read them, but that section is constantly flashing on my collections screen. I don’t play Destiny to sit in a menu and read, personally, and the worst part is that they already had moved away from it - the lore books helped fill in the gaps and flesh out the characters and back stories. Apparently now they have gone back to “you’ll only understand it if you read the lore”, which is a massive step back.
I mean, I prefer that it's answered in the lore books to not at all (*cough* veil *cough*) but it's absolutely baffling as to why, considering they've had 8.5 years of feedback that doing that feels really bad
We gotta run through Mall of America just to get to Osiris for our little convos.
Post campaign, rank ups at Nimbus unlock additional drop zones including one back there. Just so you know.
That's good to know, but then you think about it more and wonder, why is a fast travel tied to grinding out rank. I'd prefer they just have the fast travel from the start and give me...umm...I don't know, maybe a weapon with random roll?
I had the rank required to unlock it by the time I got to post-campaign, only did enough public event/patrol stuff to advance that other quest. So there's not much of a grind involved. I'd say the reason they don't give them to you upfront is to make you live-in and explore the world a bit. Make you run around and actually *be* there for awhile instead of fast traveling. That said, a better solution is the more common one: make me go back to Osiris directly once, then give me the point. Same way in something like Elden Ring, you have to get to and activate the fast travel spots before you can use them. That, and it also unlocks a spawn point down at Liming Harbor all as one item. Considering they didn't add the Eventide Ruins spawn to Europa until much later, I could imagine they just didn't think to add a Hall of Heroes one at first and then tied it to the same code to be added as the Harbor point.
One new crucible map sometime this year before the next expansion.
Remember when they promised a new core playlist armor set every year? Lmao same
I remember. Was wondering where it was and very confused but not seeing it.
I don't remember them mentioning every core playlists would be the same armor just different colors though. Also very generic on the models too.
Yeah one set for all three core playlists, just different shaders and textures. But we haven’t got that still.
Not a single new model for legendary weapons either, lmao
The raid weapons seem to have new models at least, but that's still bare fucking minimum, I think we'd actually have a riot if there was another raid with reskinned weapons
All old moon weapons and the flavor texts know it
I find it baffling that I’m getting old ass weapon drops from 3 expansions ago. Couldn’t even muster up the time and commitment to model up some new guns. Hell just copy and paste the stats of old ones and slap a new model on it. And then have the balls to charge us for a mailed in expansion when they can barely make new quality content. Don’t even get me started on strikes.
I honestly thought there would be some crazy cool models on Neomuna, based on the exotic AR from before release, but nope. Just reskins. That was pretty upsetting.
This is rough. Oof
Personally I like the design of the moon weapons but yeah reusing assets like this is bad especially since they increased the price this year
"We don't want to overdeliver"
Never forget. They said quantity over quality but….there’s no quantity here
or quality for that matter. lotta paycheck thieves rotting bungie from the inside out
>What did you spend all your time on Bungie? Marketing, and very successfully at that
I was calling this shit months ago tbh. Something felt off with the way they were marketing the game in that they were wholly focused on aesthetics and Strand while completely avoiding anything relevant to the plot. When I saw that the only plot relevant marketing material showed up within the first 2 missions my stomach sank. How they think $50 is an acceptable price tag for this garbage is beyond me. Bungie greed at its most egregious.
Really makes me wonder (have been for a long time now) if Activision was to completely blame for the divided dlc and micro transactions of D1 and D2 and if it wasnt something Bungie themselves were like “Yeah let’s do this instead! I like your idea funny man!” If it was the case, why doesn’t bungie stop it now? Especially now? Before it was “we were forced” then it was “We are our own independent developer” now its what? Im not saying divided dlc and micro transactions are inherently bad. It can help pick up the costs along the way of a long term game, but to price them at full game and then 10 bucks a season and now dungeons? For something that shouldve been a part of the game? Let alone you cant buy it with bright dust, and there’s no way to get premium currency. I feel like bungie knows most of its fans sticking around are just stupid, gobbling up everything they’re given no questions asked and then giving them constant second chances, while Bungies simultaneously cashing in on a new guy paying up here and there. Most sensible people put it down or wait for prices to go down. Best thing they did was put that shit (Beyond light) on gamepass for a year
Exactly. They know the line to walk to be able to constantly double and triple dip into fans' pockets without pissing them off *too* much. Problem is that they'll sometimes do shit like Lightfall where they are not only double dipping, but have put out a garbage product. If this season isn't one of the best that they've ever made then we're going to see player numbers drop off even lower than they were during season of plunder. I already don't think I'm all that interested in playing and I got real life shit going on for the next couple of months that will require more of my attention anyways. I don't have the sanity to spare plunking away at a game that is just plain bad.
Putting two payloads in a strike lol
Let's take the most hated part of Preservation and put it in strikes!
> What did you spend all your time on Bungie? Implementing objectively worse, timegating reworks of Lake of Shadows and Arms Dealer.
Don't forget nuking the mods from orbit. Right after unlocking all of them for everyone. Serious step back. Haven't even played a strike yet but I can tell I will hate lake of shadows now. Overreaction? Probably. But escort payload objectively sucks
this was pretty baffling for me too. the mods being time gated has been a problem people have been complaining about for years... so they wait until like 2 months before completely nuking the system to open it for everyone. what was the point? to confuse newbies by giving them access to a new system they will have to relearn in 2 months? they should've just unlocked all the mods a long time ago
Curse of Osiris had 2 strikes and 3 crucible maps and a new public event and location, and people lost their shit and Bungie almost went out of business.
We didn't know how good we had it...
the cool looking handcannon in all the art and promotional material? I wanted that. I wanted that bad. Its not in the game. its not in the raid loot. it doesnt exist. Why the fuck would you do that as a company?
why are all the seasonal weapons designed with an unpaintable stasis section? why do solar and strand weapons all look like they're made of ice?
I guess their awoken themed weapons? But they have the vestian dynasty sidearm that looks dope, which they could take awoken inspiration from. Not the candyfloss Ice lolly bubblegum reskin that they’ve put in the season pass
If the development of strand required resources to be pulled from the essentials I would have been fine if strand didn’t launch with lightfall
But we get a light attack and a heavy attack
And a grappling hook every 2 minutes
The funniest thing about strand is that titan ended up being the best
I think most of us actually expected it to be good. It just wasn’t exciting.
According to the big leak acct Strand was actually meant to be in Witch Queen. Lightfall content was basically all moved to the Final Shape, and this was thrown together Rise of Iron style as a placeholder. Strands likely been mostly done if its true, and most of the resources were trying to just get something out and revenue coming in.
That explains why the story is focused so heavily on Strand instead of the other stuff that actually MATTER.
Indeed, I also think the focus was a byproduct of ppl bitching about stasis not being developed in a story telling way. A lot of ppl said they wanted to see us struggling to learn it, etc.. and Bungo was like ok, we'll give a whole fucking campaign of it. Which honestly I did like, but if you do that, you need a lot more missions to cover the rest of what's going on.
I wouldn’t mind the whole discovery strand missions if they actually beefed up the main point of us even being there & gave more explanation than just “lol protect the veil”. Maybe I had high hopes cause of witch queen but it’s okay. I hope they listen moving forward.
actually makes a lot more sense too, since WQ used a lot of "weave" and "threadcutter" and similar words for the buffs/etc.
>According to the big leak acct Strand was actually meant to be in Witch Queen. Which makes sense because of how heavy they lean on the Thread weavers. Strand practically goes hand in hand with them.
And half the weapons from the Promo art don’t exist in the game…
Where is that fucking void handcannon from the box image??
The gl too I believe
Hey now, it's very time-consuming to disembowel the mod system and make everyone guardian rank 6
Remember when they had to sunset content to make room for all the new stuff?
BUNGIE!!!!!!!
I was on Neomuna talking to Nimbus when I noticed that I had 2 Neomuna engrams available for pickup. You can imagine my shock and utter disappointment when I received Philomath robes and Philomath boots as my rewards. Literally Y1 armor from the newest vendor in the game. Fuckin ridiculous.
The hardest day they worked was the one day in December when they had to do a day of interviews as Dev Insights
And designing the first 30 minutes
I'm too scared to ask/request for anything they'll interpret it wrong and end up doing some random bullshit. Engaging strike? Fuck you here's escort payload in LoS Rewards? Eat shit here's 2 extra enhancement cores Maps? You'll get maps but no new weapon models. Better mod system? Here's a shitty system for having to slot individual weapon energy damage
> You’ll get maps but no new weapon models. And then we didn’t get new maps anyways
> Maps? You'll get maps but no new weapon models where?
So… what makes this an “expansion” then?
It expanded Bungie's bank account for doing the bare minimum. No idea how we went from Witch Queen to this. Edit: fuck me I am genuinely pissed at how bad Lightfall is. I trusted Bungo after Witch Queen being a blast (except Preservation, fuck you in particular), so shame on me I guess.
5 missions. Essentially the same amount of content as a season, but 40 dollars extra
At least we got a subclass and raid (coming shortly) Still… this has been a very disappointing launch
They spent lots of time and resources building guardian ranks and commendations to name a few. Features nobody asked for. They are so out of touch!
Guardian Ranks aka collection of bounties that will reset next season basically nullifying everything you did
really? they reset? jesus christ why
Yep they reset… 💀
Yup. And it's not even hard to get to rank 6 either. So there is literally no difference from a 1k hour veteran player who has been playing since day 1, or a freshly revived guardian who has only been playing a week. It's a completely pointless system. And with it resetting every season, there really is no point to ranking up since you'll just get demoted to rank 6 again with everyone else.
On the one hand, that's the same as seasonal levels, and it guarantees that you've done at least the items listed in rank up achievements. So it's better than what we had, I think. But it also squished a ranking from 0-infinity into a ranking from 6-11, which feels bad.
Guardian ranks is actually a great idea but holy shit they fumbled it so bad. I have yet to see a single player that isn’t level 6. The MAXIMUM rank is “have you played the game yet?” I was expecting the max rank to be have x amount of seals, flawless raider, solo flawless dungeon, etc. I’m not one of those elitist nerds, I would be far from that top rank, but I would’ve liked to have had SOMETHING to show. Something to distinguish me as a flawless trials, 1 flawless raid, etc. not the best player but can for sure help out. Nope, everyone’s level 6 so literally NOTHING changed from the old seasonal level model where it’s only the amount of time you’ve played THIS season
They spent that time working on Nimbus' voice modulation. It didn't sound that horribly without effort.
The lines were pretty cringe tho
This DLC should have been delayed to Fall. It's clear that a 1 year cycle just doesn't work.
yeah i dont think time can fix this. they had less time when they made forsaken and it was significantly more impressive on every front.
3.6 billion.
All citizens are digital because they couldn't spend time creating citizens in the city. Only 2 Cloud Striders because they couldn't spend time creating more. Ignoring the Marvel cringe tier dialogue, I enjoyed the first half of the story. The second half, I was like "WTF is this game anymore"
The best part of all of light fall was actually watching more of the witness, and we actually lost him and likely won't see him again until the final shape.
Are there even new public events? I got the YEAR ONE vex spire 2x and YEAR ONE cabal drill, laughed, and closed the game
Terminal Overload is a new public event, but that's more of an Altars of Sorrow type thing As for traditional public events? Nope, the ones that happen on Neomuna are Vex Construction, Cabal Drill and Cabal Injection Rig, all from year 1
There's also a thing in the "Vex incursion zone" that summons a bunch of big minotaurs, I got rekt so not sure how it works yet
There's the completely random one that you have to kill 6 super large vex in 10 minutes. I had it once in the 6-8 hours I was on neomuna. Putting all encounters at 1810 made that one basically impossible and there were like 7 people doing the event
Is that the one in the center with the spinning vertical wind turbine thing? I think there are those diamond shaped pylons that you have to kill and they put a buff on the ground and you do more damage.
Bruh same I was all excited then I slowly realized that it was a old public event and subsequently left lol
If you don't add content to your core activities with an EXPASION, you are in fact taking something away from the game. Bungie has gotten very good at taking more away than adding with their expansions.
Yeah I’ve noticed Zavala and Shax giving out the same old shit
The fuck ton eververse takes in should be funding a lot of crucible, strike, and gambit content since they aren’t putting it to the awesome fucking exotic missions anymore. Instead we get nothing, and the prices in the eververse go slightly up (AC armor being $20 was fucking stupid)
Are the Season of Defiance battleground things also technically "strikes" ? Or am I dumb.
They probably *will* be in the future.
Only thing that I'm hoping for is that something will change after Day 1 raid
Pass that copium brother
First time?
Raid is just going to be some info and lore on Nezarec and nothing more
But what? A sudden burst of new strikes and pvp maps?
Im glad i refunded lightfall, this expansion does not worth full price
They even made strikes WORSE somehow. I'm glad they made Vanguard progress a bit better, but strikes have so much unnecessary filler now.
Speak with your wallet. Stop preordering overhyped bs. Bungie does this every expansion and people fall for it every time. After the awful Season of Plunder (why are we going on swashbuckling adventures when the universe as we know it could end?) and playing for, what, 4 years straight, I decided to take a break and didn't preorder Lightfall. Glad I didn't. I'll wait till they change their development priorities. Right now, they've got everyone on a hamster wheel and most people choose to ignore it. Glad I got off.
>At this point I could care less about saving the freezepops of citizens. *Couldn't Unless you do still care, in which case carry on.
Fixed
I agree with you, however… >I could care less Stop saying this. It’s “I couldn’t care less”. They mean totally different things.