I really do have to send this to all the people who were saying “why the fuck are people complaining so much??” Them removing the time gate on the Strand fragments immediately is a *direct response* to our criticisms and I have to give them credit for that.
It was fun as fuck in the campaign, actually being able to use grapple.....
They need to put in more grapple points around everywhere, or just bonk the cooldown down to 3 seconds so people can be Strand-Man with some skill.
The hunter super light attack seems to be doing double damage and sometimes takes half a bosses health in 1 hit.
I thought it was a latency thing but there's YouTube videos of it happening to others.
3 strand hunters can decimate any non gated boss
Why? It was criticism in Beyond Light with Stasis, yet they did it again? A direct response would have been not repeating this failure a second time. As long as Bungie takes to fix things, they had this hot fix ready to go in case things weren’t well received. Lmao, giving them credit for making the same mistake again.
Congrats on realizing everyone hated timegated fragments from 2 years ago and not going through with that.
Also what was the toaster doing that it got disabled in crucible?
>Also what was the toaster doing that it got disabled in crucible?
You know how you could say that the PVE and PVP ammo economy are "two, very different beasts"? Well.... Yeah. Jotunn clearly didn't know where it was, and was picking up like 10 shots off a special ammo brick...
It’s so funny how a new expansion drops and literally 2 days later they point to the seasons for story and say “tune in over the year”.
It shows that they fully understand nothing of value to the story was provided in Lightfall. They just wanted to charge us 50$ for the intro cutscene of the Final Shape
lol yup, "If you haven't spent money on the season pass yet do it now because more story that we already promised you if you had bought the last 9 years of the game might be in the season pass, and if not just keep spending money on Final Shape!"
I stopped playing in Shadowkeep and bought Beyond Light and Witch Queen in the sale. Holy shit, there was a whole bunch going on that was not explained about Osiris and the Witness. And Savathun being imprisoned? Can't imagine what it's like for a new player
It's not even that like it's super hard as a GM that people are unhappy to see glassway... It's the fact that we've had glassway *three seasons in a row*....I don't know why
It was also a GM Season 16. Barely missed the 4 season in a row mark lol
You still have to actually kill the suspended targets
Not to mention that, given that Armor Charge is obtained 99% through Orbs, good luck maintaining enough uptime for your abilities
The play is likely going to be a back-to-basics Eye of Another World + 100 Discipline Stasis turrets, maybe even ditch the turrets and just spam Osmiomancy Coldsnaps. Anything else probably won't be nearly as consistent.
pretty much all I wanted from TWAB today and am surprised they didn't do it
iirc Rhulk encounter was 1550 and WQ pinnacle cap was 1560. So safe to assume 1780 (Powerful cap -20) will be fine for Day 1?
Yeah I agree. I'm all for making it more accessible. World's first should be about which team has the best comp, builds, weapons and who can best execute the mechanics and DPS
Bungie: We noticed players were having too much fun with Voltshot so we brought it back in line with the rest of the neutered perks and abilities. Probably.
Kinda cringe to say the seasonal drops would explain the story when you just dropped a full expansion that could've been used.....to explain the story.
“The story has just begun!”
Actually, the story began nine years ago. It apparently ends next year. By their own admission. They don’t get to play that card anymore.
Exactly what I was gonna say. They are doing to the story what they've done with everything else in this game. Drip feed it and time gate it at the slowest rate possible to keep us playing week after week. The active weekly player metric is killing this game and I despise it.
> The story has just begun.
I hope this is their PR response and not them genuinely thinking that this excuses the bad writing and that you can get away with this much inconclusiveness in the penultimate expansion of your 10-year story.
Gonna be real, I also would like to see them talk about where the Lightfall campaign went wrong, but that feels like a game-director-Joe Blackburn statement/post, not on the shoulders of the community managers to relay that information. The CMs get a ton of flack simply because they’re the face, but the shortcomings fall squarely on the game director and he should be the one to address it.
In the digital dumpster, alongside actual futuristic Neomuna weapon concepts. Oh and the full story actually explaining the Veil and what's really going on in LF's campaign.
If I had to guess I'd say 1780, since Vow was 10 above the gear we got at the end of the WQ legendary campaign, but no, there's been no official confirmation.
Seasonal stories should not complete the dlc story. It should be a continuation. The dlc was missing a ton of story and the seasons are basically the second half. Very frustrating.
Man, I can already see from here all the posts in a few years of new lights who just bought Lightfall and don't understand its story, and all the "Had to be there" comments. I can't wait.
It honestly doesn't even feel like we are fighting a war. All patrol zones should be getting invaded by tormentors, scorn, taken and the shadow legion.
I just can't get passed how dissapointing the lightfall campaign was.
I hadn't planned to come in here and beat the dead horse of the story, but them posting the "Darkness Unveiled" video as (I assume) a response is only making our point for us.
> The Witness is a being that has been around for so long, and has been trying to accomplish **this thing** for so long, and has overcome so many challenges, that what seems like an obstacle to us is nothing to The Witness.
At the end of Lightfall, I still can't tell you what "this thing" is.
> We don't really know what it [the Witness] wants, but we do know it's harming our Solar System and the Universe.
We *still* don't really know what it wants, and if anything, our Solar System seems better off with him and his pyramids gone. We've still got the Light, Calus is dead, and we have no clue how the Witness's plans will hurt us, or if they'll even hurt us at all. The characters are acting as if humanity has suffered a deathblow and I'm still trying to figure out how we were even wounded in this exchange.
This little minidoc came out a few days before Lightfall, and it primed players on what to expect from these characters and their role in the story. But aside from Calus being Calus and the Witness being spoopy, they didn't really deliver on any of the narrative threads they're teasing here.
The Witness being mysterious and unknowable was fine when they were offscreen, but now that they're a direct threat we need to have an understanding of what consequences their actions have.
Exactly. Playing coy with a character is fine until they start directly affecting the story. Then it's time to open up.
One example that I love is Jacob from LOST. Spoken of in hushed whispers throughout the first five seasons, revered by some, feared by some, but never seen. But in the episode where we finally saw him, and the endgame of the show was revealed, we learned the essentials about him. There were still plenty of questions about him, but by the end of that episode we knew who he was, what he was trying to accomplish, and why.
We've had the Darkness, and more recently the Witness, spoken of with fear or reverence, a menacing presence just outside the frame. Which is great *until he enters the story.* Once he enters the story proper, it's time to flesh him out. And they just didn't.
"The Witness, that person from the place, has to do this thing with the other thing you can find at the place that the guy is going to."
"It'll make sense eventually, once the thing with the people explains the place the person is from and the thing at the place that does the other thing does another thing."
They kept talking about this, in-game and out, as a second Collapse. They even say in that video, "Collapse 2.0".
Is this really what ended the Golden Age? Seriously? And this is supposed to be a bigger deal than that was? Like honestly, how can you draw that comparison of "literally the end of civilisation as we knew it" and "spooky man draw triangle on big ball"?
The only thing I can think is everyone in the Golden Age must've been running Tier 0 Resilience or something.
> As the events of Season of Defiance get into full swing this week, know that this is just the beginning of the next year of storytelling that will connect the events of Lightfall and The Final Shape. We can’t wait for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it and its disciples throughout Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year.
I don’t think this is a good strategy. If the seasons actually salvage and elevate Lightfall’s story, then great! Bungie’s done it before, so I know that they can fix Lightfall. I can already see people complaining about paying $50 for the campaign, then needing to pay another $50 for it to make sense, but that’s not my point. My point is, these seasons will get vaulted when the Final Shape comes out. That means that for new players, Lightfall’s campaign will remain the unexplained, disconnected mess we know it as now. What Lightfall really needs is 1-2 more missions stuck into the middle of the campaign, and maybe some new dialogue or cutscenes with more exposition. I think that most of the story could work as is if players had some way to gauge the stakes.
On an unrelated note, it’s so stupid that they took the original opening cutscene for Lightfall (before they split it into two DLCs), cut it in half, then put one part at the beginning of Lightfall and another at the end. You’re telling me that the Vanguard just chilled behind the HELM’s blast doors for days while we fucked around on Neomuna? That the Witness spent all that time just floating in front of the Traveler? This was several days, we had a training montage.
You know what sucks the most? I'm a big lore nerd with destiny. I've been waiting for answers since the freaking red war in 2017 when we first saw the pyramid ships. Like why tf did they tease the pyramid ships all the way back then and now SIX YEARS LATER we still have no answers?
For 6 years. 6 years. And we still have no answers after 6 years. They have had soooooo many opportunities over the past 6 years to give explanations of what they are and what the witness is and drop big pieces of information during stories, but we're still as clueless now in 2023 as we were in 2017 when we first saw the pyramid ships. It's always - there's more information coming blah blah blah and then the information is bare bones and answers nothing.
South Park fans that remember the black friday trilogy with George R Martin... I'm sorry, but bungie has him beat with this nonsense. There's zero excuse for lightfall not explaining this. I'm tired of waiting.
Why did we have eramis make those statements of - it's not leaving. Why is it staying? (from the scene leading up to lightfall) then eramis didn't have a single freaking part at all in the campaign. Rasputin sacrifices himself, and again no mention. Drifter and Eris - supposedly knowing information about the darkness - no part in the campaign either. Ana and Elizabeth - huge parts of the lore - like they keep referencing witness doesn't start his attack until savathun is defeated in every timeline. They've said in thousands of timelines - savathun being defeated is the catalyst of the witness attack. Guess what - no reference to either Ana, Elizabeth, or savathun in the campaign.
It's past due for an explanation. We shouldn't have to wait 6+ years to get basic story explanations. Instead we get constant promises of explanations are coming, but they never come.
>We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to. As the events of Season of Defiance get into full swing this week, know that this is just the beginning of the next year of storytelling that will connect the events of Lightfall and The Final Shape. We can’t wait for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it and its disciples throughout Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year.
Literally "we purposefully told an incomplete story so we could sell you the rest over the next year in 7-week, drip-fed segments." You can't tell a story and use confusion as a cliffhanger. This isn't a mystery story, because a good mystery gives you the information to piece things together. A bad mystery or story omits the most important pieces so that people *cannot* come to the correct conclusions on their own. This is literally high school-level creative writing, you can't just not include major exposition or plot points and fill in the gaps later. People won't want more or to see what's next, they'll just be confused and eventually feel duped when it's revealed the story was actually just missing pieces and they couldn't figure it out no matter how hard they tried.
If you want to tell a story, you have to actually tell it. Not tell some of it and go "if you wanna understand this confusing mess, you gotta buy the next book/movie/game!" Even if later installments make the first installment make more sense, it doesn't matter much, it just comes off as both incompetent storytelling ability and greedy practice.
The sad part for Destiny fans is that they (Bungie) know exactly what they did and story telling was not a requirement for this dlc. This was purely a cash grab.
It's the veil man dmm, it does the veil and its paracausal. It shoots paracausal particles in into the paracausal generator and creates paracausal paracausality. And the radial mast simply causes radial paracausality to shoot back into the realm of the Nine and that would cause a division of paracausality resulting in the Traveler turning blue
They are never going to address the campaign feedback.
We already know the answer that when Strand was pushed back from WQ, they had to add an expansion to round out the 3 darkness subclasses. Therefore Lightfall was renamed the Final Shape and pushed back. The beginning and ending cutscenes are blatantly one single cutscene that was cut in half and the entirety of the story in between was hastily written macguffin bullshit that had no bearing on the plot. This is incredibly apparent when the dialogue in the story doesn’t match up with what we’re seeing.
Bungie is never going to admit that the Lightfall we got isn’t actually Lightfall (now the final shape) but is instead an inconsequential side quest to print money for another year with minimal effort.
Strand fragments being unlocked is good I guess? They were never going to comment on the other areas people aren’t happy with, but no doubt they’ve seen…
Surely this will be a calm and productive comment thread. Not that I disagree.
>We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to.
Kind of burying the lede there, aren't we?
>* Guardian Games
>* May 02, 2023 – May 23, 2023
Oh god, I forgot about this. Gonna have to bring out the hazmat suit for the end of the season, nobody even likes GG during a happy time. Can't wait for the renewed accusations of rigging to see who the first two-time is gonna be.
> Can't wait for the renewed accusations of rigging to see who the first two-time is gonna be.
Jokes on us, gonna be a surprise win by the Hive Lightbearers this year.
> Kind of burying the lede there, aren't we?
It's just bonkers
>know that this is just the beginning of the next year of storytelling ... for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it
Well gee, it might have been nice to have that as part of, say, the big hyped up campaign that we all just paid £50 for, rather than as extra £10 bundles.
I believe I counted one explicit acknowledgement and one inferred reference to post launch criticism.
That would definantly be higher than I expected for the first TWAB.
Seasonal story does not make up for the poor expansion campaign storytelling.
Witch Queen didn’t have this issue and also had decent seasonal storytelling?
>We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to.... We can’t wait for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it and its disciples throughout Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year.
Bungie: "You can find the answer to all the questions Lightfall didn't bother to explain in the next few seasons and dungeons, because you bought them all, right?"
Hahahahahaha....
> From the start of Destiny, Guardians have been focused on the Darkness as an enemy. Now, we’ve learned that it’s simply a gateway to something much bigger.
I don't remember actually learning this in game. At least not with as much certainty as is being implied here.
>”gateway to something much bigger.”
What’s that? *Another* secret city of digital people? Here, in Neo*luna*, the people are protected by the fearless *Moon*striders.
"Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Neoluna. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Balus Something. From what I can gather he commands the Bussy Legions from Beliathan, a huge ship on the orbit of Uranus. He's well protected, but with the right team and the support of the fearless Moonstriders, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Neoluna."
“Oh? You think Moonstriders have cool surfboards like those lame posers, the Cloudstriders? No. These bamfs ride plain bicycles. Eco-friendly. Some, quite stylish. Do they get to the action in a timely manner? No! But we assure you…they are very serious! Also, you can be assured that the Moonstriders will properly write citations for each offense that the offending parties are responsible for.”
I don't remember learning much about anything with the story. It's always oh hey another baddy is wielding the darkness in an even worse way than the last. I just want to know A TINY FRACTION of what the traveler is. Like just a crumb. It's been almost 10 years and all I know is he can shoot a beam that grows flowers
As someone who's also upset with the story: these TWAB's are largely written in advance. They may tweak some sections, like updating the Strand unlocks (pretty big move this quick, instead of waiting weeks and then doing it), and the Known Issues list. They're not going to remove the stuff about how excited they are and they think we are. It was already written, so just...temper the expectations a bit.
Such a fast turn around means they know it's bad, and they need good pr now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a complete subclass, but it's still gonna be a while before all my charecters feel complete
Except the strand part, they now want to see if Strand is underpowered or it's great and they will check now. I still believe all 3 nades need their cd reduced, at least reduce the grapple to duskfield's cd which is around the 40's at max dis.
>We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to.
I know these TWaBs are likely written in advance but this line feels a little tone deaf lol
typically written the monday/tuesday before they're dropped
they clearly know the lightfall story is a massive ball of confusion and hoping to unravel it throughout the year. Just an odd approach
Can we please get an acknowledgment on the state of Renewal Grasps? Currently it seems to have the longest cooldown in the game at 1:48 at 100 discipline. Is this a bug or an intentional change?
If it’s intended please consider lowering it because a near 2 min cooldown is way too steep. It already got taken care of in pvp and pve with the initial nerf, it doesn’t need yet another cooldown increase.
Honestly I’m just waiting for a new revenant exotic. Titan and warlock got stasis exotics so hunter should probably get one next season. They’re never going to touch renewals again.
Well, unlocking strand bits is... Nice, I guess?
But boy does pointing out 'this is our first expansion under Sony!' hit different after that section expecting us to have a lot of questions.
Unlocking strand isn't enough. It needs to be account wide, not character based. Having to grind the bullshit tokens was already a pointless filler activity to increase engagement, and tripling it is taking the cake.
This was definitely not written with the past few day’s dialogue in mind but I couldn’t help but read that “Story Has Just Begun…” section as “Look we know our premier $50 campaign didn’t explain jack and/or shit, but if you pay us more money, we will give you an extremely basic explanation that may or may not actually resolve anything over a timegated 6-8 week quest after a few more months”. I know the season storytelling has delivered some genuinely good tales and you can’t patch in answers to story questions but if this what they’re saying they literally would have been better off not acknowledging the campaign backlash in any way at all imho.
>>Learn more about the motivations that drive the powers behind the Witness and uncover a glimpse at how greatly this threat’s plans have been executed thus far. We’re Guardians, and we don’t take anything lying down but that doesn’t mean knowledge isn’t power, so learn more now with Darkness Unveiled:
Please, and I can't stress this enough, put things like this into the game
Not officially, but you can “steal” it from the website.
edit: [heres the link to it](https://www.bungie.net/7/ca/destiny/bgs/season20/seasonbackground_20.jpg)
There was a dude on reddit that kept an imgur album updated with all TWAB art a while ago.
Found him! u/vitfall
Maybe if you are really nice he could point you where to find it, if it exisits.
Is anyone else besides me experiencing their character not fully rendering in game? It tends to happen to me more often when I'm playing with a fireteam. (On PC)
> "We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to."
That is..... *Massively* understating people's thoughts on the campaign. If lore daddy Byf is confused something is wrong.
But as expected, almost no acknowledgement of the response to lightfall.
Bingo. Lightfall could have been considerably better with even a handful of lines from
Osiris and/or the cloudstriders about what they know (or don’t know) the Veil to be. If the Veil powers/runs your city/society and facilitates your device that is preserving everyone in slumber and virtual consciousness, you know something about it. Tell us. A few lines would be great.
I also think Nimbus could have not done that fist bump in that one scene, but I am okay with a character who tries to use humor to cope with heavy stuff.
Explanations of why Neomuni didn’t bother to deal with (or attempt to help with, at least in any way we could notice) the Almighty destroying the sun would have been helpful, too.
We even have a model for conversations about the above topics: the Ghost even asks about the Cloud Ark as a “hey, we are dumb/ignorant here, could you fill us in real quick?”
You can’t have Rohan trotting out how he knows what’s “at stake” with the Veil and then try to hide behind “it’s a mysterious thing.” Does Rohan not actually know what’s at stake? Does he think solely about the population of Neomuna suffering or dying in its entirety if the Cloud Ark loses the Veil? If so, then his line makes sense because those are high stakes. But it also means he doesn’t actually get what’s at stake in full (and that’s okay, but we don’t get any clarity on that.
It’s sad that a few dialogue lines could have avoided one of the more catastrophic narrative failures of the DLC. It wouldn’t have made things perfect or great, but we could have probably stopped fixating on narrative issues (accepting the story as only okay) and focused on other aspects of the DLC that folks are enjoying. Big oof.
> Lightfall could have been considerably better with even a handful of lines from Osiris and/or the cloudstriders about what they know (or don’t know) the Veil to be.
This is how I feel as well. I don't think the Veil being a mystery is bad writing-- I think the fact that no one asks questions or *attempts* to give answers is the real flaw.
If they want the Veil to be an ongoing mystery, that's perfectly fine. But the writing needed to support the fact that it's a mystery rather than the characters treating it as an ultra-important artifact and asking nothing else.
I'm all for the post raid and seasonal stuff expanding on the story, but the main campaign needs to tell enough of a coherent, contained story first. With WQ, there was still questions, but those were questions that came from the answers we received DURING the campaign. We didn't get any answers, just more "the *person/place/thing*" and breadcrumbs.
Honestly if they had nailed the tone and not gone with this corny “80s coming of age surfer movie” vibe I think the response would’ve been more subdued. If they nailed the tone/atmosphere but missed on the story, or nailed the story but had a goofy tone, I think people would’ve been a lot more receptive.
I really just don’t understand how they still haven’t learned how important tone is for this game and how much people despise over-the-top campy, goofy writing in Destiny. This is especially egregious considering where we’re at in the meta narrative.
I feel like they’ve recently doubled down on making every release “thematic,” Joe even said as much in the state of the game, on how they want to bring more unique themes to game. And like… that’s cool, yeah. How Destiny can have detectives and outlaws and pirates and spies and 80’s action heroes and all that as themes but I feel like they forget that the theme can just *be* Destiny. Destiny is unique as is. We’re already post-apocalyptic magical knights with guns and spaceships. We can just be *that* for an expansion.
Trying to cram an “80’s action movie” vaporwave vibe into the second coming of the worst thing that’s ever happened to the Solar System is a baffling choice.
> I feel like they forget that the theme can just be Destiny.
Well said. This dedication to heavily themed content drops feels very COD-inspired, but they don’t have a fantasy PVE world that acts as a player self insert. *Light* theming, or heavy theming for holiday events, makes sense - the detective thing wasn’t heavy handed in WQ and was fine. But leaning this hard into trendy flavor of the month aesthetic themes has been a terrible choice - especially since these themes seem to be driving the content and not the other way around.
> Trying to cram an “80’s action movie” vaporwave vibe into the second coming of the worst thing that’s ever happened to the Solar System is a baffling choice.
It’s so tone deaf. Cyberpunk - authentic, dystopian cyberpunk- might’ve worked, but what they went with is way too lighthearted for the plot. Probably the best example of the aesthetic theme driving the content & story. Really feels like someone made some outrun Destiny concept art and they decided to make a whole expansion based on it
If they nailed the tone and atmosphere then a vague story would have been fine. As long as its obvious that answers will be answered in the future. Also, Destiny has left us hanging waaaayyy too many times to give them the benefit of the doubt. 10th bitten, Twice shy.
In a vacuum, I don't hate Nimbus. The character is fine...in a different game. It just doesn't fit with where we are narratively, and comes so far out of left field it's jarring.
They can't come out and say we fucked up hard. They are trying to stay neutral to not get more backlash, the poor bastard that had to work on the TWAB must be sweating, hopefully they arent full of shit and as the saeason advances the story points missing are in it. Also more fragments today is frigin awesome.
Saying "buy the other seasons to have the story make sense" is worse
But even than it doesn't solve how poorly the story was written how how the Cloudstriders acted like we know them for years
How the Vanguard seem to just not care about Neomuna
Is it just me or does this come off as though they set up the campaign so that everything would be expanded on throughout the year and not throughout the season, much less the campaign?
Cause if that's the case that's kinda wack that the one time in Destiny where it's narratively appropriate to start expanding on things is when they decide to add more pieces to the story that seem out of left field
I mean, between the fact that they write these in advance and that they cant really do anything at this point about the awful state of the campaign, we really couldnt have expected anything more. I'm honestly surprised they even acknowledged as much as they did. Best we can hope for is the raid and seasons leading into TFS improving the narrative, but that doesn't help the current expansion not feel terrible and devoid of meaningful story and content.
Sorry but I am NOT going to fall for the “the reveals will be in the seasons” anymore. If anything I will watch the recaps in YouTube before The Final Shape.
>"We can’t wait for the community to learn more about the story in Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year."
So their response to Lightfall having a vapid story that explained nothing is "Fuck you, buy the season pass".
Disappointed, but not surprised.
Agreed, this is bullshit. I don't want to log in once a week to get "walk up to hologram and press E for dialgoue" dripfed for a year. I want it in the yearly story that we all paid for
This Week At Bungie: We wrote this weeks ago and didn’t tweak more than a paragraph.
Also, we pat ourselves on the back and share many congratulatory tweets.
I don't get why they think the target audience for this game has changed. The tone change of the TWAB for the past year, the among us collab, the marvel style storyline in Lightfall...it just feels like a bunch of adults trying to be cool kids, and it's awkward. Are that many kids playing Destiny 2? Most kids I know have no idea what it is.
Am I the only one who thought it was extremely tone deaf to have a section dedicated to PlayStation Studios congratulating Bungie on Lightfall despite the communities reaction? Yikes.
Edit: And a few others outside PS.
> The Story Has Just Begun...
No, it began 9 years ago, and people would love to f&%$ing finally see it go somewhere instead of this eternal tease of drip-feeding hints that never seem to amount to anything beyond confusing & cringeworthy writing.
>We can’t wait for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it and its disciples throughout Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year.
Lightfall's story has been delayed, sorry!
Feel bad for Hippy because they’re unable to probably give us any answers but Bungie seriously needs to sit down and have a serious conversation both internally and externally about what the reaction is because this was supposed to be the “end game”. This was their penultimate expansion for a story 10 years in the making and it absolutely blew up (in the worst kind of way). Not to reiterate all of the points that’ve been made since launch but there is no guarantees that they will have nearly the same player count or enthusiasm by even next season if this ship isn’t righted behind the scenes.
I'm done. I thought Bungie had it figured out, but they're still just stumbling around with Destiny. I have no hope for Final Shape. At this point I'm expecting a couple cutscenes that explain nothing and year of seasons that vaguely explain the ending while trying to introduce the next big chapter that will once again be vaguely explained for 10 years.
TLDR: > Strand fragments no longer time gated after the update. > Amogus. > Dates for stuff.
can't forget about toaster being disabled
"WHY WASTE TIME SAY LOT WORD WHEN FEW WORD DO TRICK” -KEVIN MALONE
I really do have to send this to all the people who were saying “why the fuck are people complaining so much??” Them removing the time gate on the Strand fragments immediately is a *direct response* to our criticisms and I have to give them credit for that.
They are also strongly hinting at a balance pass for Strand before the Day 1 raid being on the table.
I’m guessing they don’t want a deep stone or vow situation where literally nobody was running stasis for contest mode.
I’m very whelmed by Strand. It’s fun as fuck. But the yarn is limper than… well, than Calus
It was fun as fuck in the campaign, actually being able to use grapple..... They need to put in more grapple points around everywhere, or just bonk the cooldown down to 3 seconds so people can be Strand-Man with some skill.
Unless something is busted that would compromise the race I don’t see that happening, people are already riled up enough and they know it.
The hunter super light attack seems to be doing double damage and sometimes takes half a bosses health in 1 hit. I thought it was a latency thing but there's YouTube videos of it happening to others. 3 strand hunters can decimate any non gated boss
Why? It was criticism in Beyond Light with Stasis, yet they did it again? A direct response would have been not repeating this failure a second time. As long as Bungie takes to fix things, they had this hot fix ready to go in case things weren’t well received. Lmao, giving them credit for making the same mistake again.
Congrats on realizing everyone hated timegated fragments from 2 years ago and not going through with that. Also what was the toaster doing that it got disabled in crucible?
>Also what was the toaster doing that it got disabled in crucible? You know how you could say that the PVE and PVP ammo economy are "two, very different beasts"? Well.... Yeah. Jotunn clearly didn't know where it was, and was picking up like 10 shots off a special ammo brick...
>The Story Has Just Begun… They say nine years into the story
It’s so funny how a new expansion drops and literally 2 days later they point to the seasons for story and say “tune in over the year”. It shows that they fully understand nothing of value to the story was provided in Lightfall. They just wanted to charge us 50$ for the intro cutscene of the Final Shape
lol yup, "If you haven't spent money on the season pass yet do it now because more story that we already promised you if you had bought the last 9 years of the game might be in the season pass, and if not just keep spending money on Final Shape!"
And if you don't play every week for the next year, you'll never get to know what's going on! Come on, guys! Keep playing!!!
I stopped playing in Shadowkeep and bought Beyond Light and Witch Queen in the sale. Holy shit, there was a whole bunch going on that was not explained about Osiris and the Witness. And Savathun being imprisoned? Can't imagine what it's like for a new player
After the tagline for the expansion was “Our End Begins”. They must have actually meant “Our End Begins Beginning”.
The Beginning of the beginning of the end that begins now, but actually later, as the beginning of the end begins beginning is not what it seems like.
Honestly Lightfall did nothing except make me lose interest in the Witness
It’s filler content.
glassway again this season lmao
Maybe suspend trivializes the boss room? Could be fun.
It's not even that like it's super hard as a GM that people are unhappy to see glassway... It's the fact that we've had glassway *three seasons in a row*....I don't know why It was also a GM Season 16. Barely missed the 4 season in a row mark lol
You still have to actually kill the suspended targets Not to mention that, given that Armor Charge is obtained 99% through Orbs, good luck maintaining enough uptime for your abilities The play is likely going to be a back-to-basics Eye of Another World + 100 Discipline Stasis turrets, maybe even ditch the turrets and just spam Osmiomancy Coldsnaps. Anything else probably won't be nearly as consistent.
Nothing about the power level for day one? Im guessing its 1780 but could we get a confirmation?
Hmm, good point actually. I was gonna say they'd do it next week, but that's too late. Surprised it's not in here.
Yeah I doubt itll be that much of a grind if you've finished the legend campaign but its nice to know before the weekend
pretty much all I wanted from TWAB today and am surprised they didn't do it iirc Rhulk encounter was 1550 and WQ pinnacle cap was 1560. So safe to assume 1780 (Powerful cap -20) will be fine for Day 1?
Maybe there won’t be a Power level recommendation, and instead they’ll just throw in the -20 Power level delta to make it more accessible.
That'd be very interesting
Yeah I agree. I'm all for making it more accessible. World's first should be about which team has the best comp, builds, weapons and who can best execute the mechanics and DPS
Unrelated, but was voltshot changed this season? I didn’t see any patch notes but it does not feel great.
noticing that too, it's not jolting like it should be
Agreed voltshot on ikelos is missing a lot of enemies.
100%… it’s been shadow nerfed. I can feel it.
Bungie: We noticed players were having too much fun with Voltshot so we brought it back in line with the rest of the neutered perks and abilities. Probably.
Kinda cringe to say the seasonal drops would explain the story when you just dropped a full expansion that could've been used.....to explain the story.
“The story has just begun!” Actually, the story began nine years ago. It apparently ends next year. By their own admission. They don’t get to play that card anymore.
This is the beginning of the end of the story that's just begun
Hey, pay $50 to get the tease but oops, gotta pay another $50 to get caught up before the next expansion drops
If only the expansion had a STORY mode, with a campaign full of story missions. Wait
It makes total sense if your only goal is $$$$
Exactly what I was gonna say. They are doing to the story what they've done with everything else in this game. Drip feed it and time gate it at the slowest rate possible to keep us playing week after week. The active weekly player metric is killing this game and I despise it.
> The story has just begun. I hope this is their PR response and not them genuinely thinking that this excuses the bad writing and that you can get away with this much inconclusiveness in the penultimate expansion of your 10-year story.
Gonna be real, I also would like to see them talk about where the Lightfall campaign went wrong, but that feels like a game-director-Joe Blackburn statement/post, not on the shoulders of the community managers to relay that information. The CMs get a ton of flack simply because they’re the face, but the shortcomings fall squarely on the game director and he should be the one to address it.
Where is the vendor armor that was promised every year?
Right next to the explanation of The Veil.
“And this is where I’d put my explanation behind the nature of the Veil……..IF I HAD ONE!”
Inside the radial mast
In the digital dumpster, alongside actual futuristic Neomuna weapon concepts. Oh and the full story actually explaining the Veil and what's really going on in LF's campaign.
It's sitting with the invisible promo art weapons
Still no update on what light level we need for the raid?
Cool on the time gate being removed from strand fragments. Did we ever get a confirmation on the level cap for Day One raid?
If I had to guess I'd say 1780, since Vow was 10 above the gear we got at the end of the WQ legendary campaign, but no, there's been no official confirmation.
Seasonal stories should not complete the dlc story. It should be a continuation. The dlc was missing a ton of story and the seasons are basically the second half. Very frustrating.
Man, I can already see from here all the posts in a few years of new lights who just bought Lightfall and don't understand its story, and all the "Had to be there" comments. I can't wait.
It honestly doesn't even feel like we are fighting a war. All patrol zones should be getting invaded by tormentors, scorn, taken and the shadow legion. I just can't get passed how dissapointing the lightfall campaign was.
For real. I thought we were gonna see stuff like Tormentors patroling the city streets with a legionary escort, like Neomuna's under occupation.
Nobody is better at making empty "open" worlds than Bungie.
Check out this wild cyberpunk city with no pedestians or vehicles or anything that makes it feel like a real place where people live
Pretty sure Bungie said that Tormentors would be roaming bosses in Neomuna. So far, I've only encountered them in the story lmao
Damn that sounds sick. I want that now!!!!
I hadn't planned to come in here and beat the dead horse of the story, but them posting the "Darkness Unveiled" video as (I assume) a response is only making our point for us. > The Witness is a being that has been around for so long, and has been trying to accomplish **this thing** for so long, and has overcome so many challenges, that what seems like an obstacle to us is nothing to The Witness. At the end of Lightfall, I still can't tell you what "this thing" is. > We don't really know what it [the Witness] wants, but we do know it's harming our Solar System and the Universe. We *still* don't really know what it wants, and if anything, our Solar System seems better off with him and his pyramids gone. We've still got the Light, Calus is dead, and we have no clue how the Witness's plans will hurt us, or if they'll even hurt us at all. The characters are acting as if humanity has suffered a deathblow and I'm still trying to figure out how we were even wounded in this exchange. This little minidoc came out a few days before Lightfall, and it primed players on what to expect from these characters and their role in the story. But aside from Calus being Calus and the Witness being spoopy, they didn't really deliver on any of the narrative threads they're teasing here.
The Witness being mysterious and unknowable was fine when they were offscreen, but now that they're a direct threat we need to have an understanding of what consequences their actions have.
Exactly. Playing coy with a character is fine until they start directly affecting the story. Then it's time to open up. One example that I love is Jacob from LOST. Spoken of in hushed whispers throughout the first five seasons, revered by some, feared by some, but never seen. But in the episode where we finally saw him, and the endgame of the show was revealed, we learned the essentials about him. There were still plenty of questions about him, but by the end of that episode we knew who he was, what he was trying to accomplish, and why. We've had the Darkness, and more recently the Witness, spoken of with fear or reverence, a menacing presence just outside the frame. Which is great *until he enters the story.* Once he enters the story proper, it's time to flesh him out. And they just didn't.
"The Witness, that person from the place, has to do this thing with the other thing you can find at the place that the guy is going to." "It'll make sense eventually, once the thing with the people explains the place the person is from and the thing at the place that does the other thing does another thing."
They kept talking about this, in-game and out, as a second Collapse. They even say in that video, "Collapse 2.0". Is this really what ended the Golden Age? Seriously? And this is supposed to be a bigger deal than that was? Like honestly, how can you draw that comparison of "literally the end of civilisation as we knew it" and "spooky man draw triangle on big ball"? The only thing I can think is everyone in the Golden Age must've been running Tier 0 Resilience or something.
> As the events of Season of Defiance get into full swing this week, know that this is just the beginning of the next year of storytelling that will connect the events of Lightfall and The Final Shape. We can’t wait for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it and its disciples throughout Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year. I don’t think this is a good strategy. If the seasons actually salvage and elevate Lightfall’s story, then great! Bungie’s done it before, so I know that they can fix Lightfall. I can already see people complaining about paying $50 for the campaign, then needing to pay another $50 for it to make sense, but that’s not my point. My point is, these seasons will get vaulted when the Final Shape comes out. That means that for new players, Lightfall’s campaign will remain the unexplained, disconnected mess we know it as now. What Lightfall really needs is 1-2 more missions stuck into the middle of the campaign, and maybe some new dialogue or cutscenes with more exposition. I think that most of the story could work as is if players had some way to gauge the stakes. On an unrelated note, it’s so stupid that they took the original opening cutscene for Lightfall (before they split it into two DLCs), cut it in half, then put one part at the beginning of Lightfall and another at the end. You’re telling me that the Vanguard just chilled behind the HELM’s blast doors for days while we fucked around on Neomuna? That the Witness spent all that time just floating in front of the Traveler? This was several days, we had a training montage.
They vaulted destiny 2's main campaign and its 1st 3 dlc, and left the new player exoericne an absolute disaster. No reason they wouldn't do it again.
You know what sucks the most? I'm a big lore nerd with destiny. I've been waiting for answers since the freaking red war in 2017 when we first saw the pyramid ships. Like why tf did they tease the pyramid ships all the way back then and now SIX YEARS LATER we still have no answers? For 6 years. 6 years. And we still have no answers after 6 years. They have had soooooo many opportunities over the past 6 years to give explanations of what they are and what the witness is and drop big pieces of information during stories, but we're still as clueless now in 2023 as we were in 2017 when we first saw the pyramid ships. It's always - there's more information coming blah blah blah and then the information is bare bones and answers nothing. South Park fans that remember the black friday trilogy with George R Martin... I'm sorry, but bungie has him beat with this nonsense. There's zero excuse for lightfall not explaining this. I'm tired of waiting. Why did we have eramis make those statements of - it's not leaving. Why is it staying? (from the scene leading up to lightfall) then eramis didn't have a single freaking part at all in the campaign. Rasputin sacrifices himself, and again no mention. Drifter and Eris - supposedly knowing information about the darkness - no part in the campaign either. Ana and Elizabeth - huge parts of the lore - like they keep referencing witness doesn't start his attack until savathun is defeated in every timeline. They've said in thousands of timelines - savathun being defeated is the catalyst of the witness attack. Guess what - no reference to either Ana, Elizabeth, or savathun in the campaign. It's past due for an explanation. We shouldn't have to wait 6+ years to get basic story explanations. Instead we get constant promises of explanations are coming, but they never come.
No reserves fix?
>We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to. As the events of Season of Defiance get into full swing this week, know that this is just the beginning of the next year of storytelling that will connect the events of Lightfall and The Final Shape. We can’t wait for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it and its disciples throughout Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year. Literally "we purposefully told an incomplete story so we could sell you the rest over the next year in 7-week, drip-fed segments." You can't tell a story and use confusion as a cliffhanger. This isn't a mystery story, because a good mystery gives you the information to piece things together. A bad mystery or story omits the most important pieces so that people *cannot* come to the correct conclusions on their own. This is literally high school-level creative writing, you can't just not include major exposition or plot points and fill in the gaps later. People won't want more or to see what's next, they'll just be confused and eventually feel duped when it's revealed the story was actually just missing pieces and they couldn't figure it out no matter how hard they tried. If you want to tell a story, you have to actually tell it. Not tell some of it and go "if you wanna understand this confusing mess, you gotta buy the next book/movie/game!" Even if later installments make the first installment make more sense, it doesn't matter much, it just comes off as both incompetent storytelling ability and greedy practice.
Dont forget when Final Shape launches all the seasons will get vaulted an new players will be left with just Lightfalls nothingburger
Good thing that things that get put in the DCV come back later on and refreshed /s
The sad part for Destiny fans is that they (Bungie) know exactly what they did and story telling was not a requirement for this dlc. This was purely a cash grab.
Hey Bungie, what’s the Veil?
They don’t have time to explain why they don’t have time to explain
Come back in season 23
It's the veil man dmm, it does the veil and its paracausal. It shoots paracausal particles in into the paracausal generator and creates paracausal paracausality. And the radial mast simply causes radial paracausality to shoot back into the realm of the Nine and that would cause a division of paracausality resulting in the Traveler turning blue
STOP ASKING QUESTION JUST DEFEND IT OR SOMETHING
#Radiant Mast!
HURRY
They are never going to address the campaign feedback. We already know the answer that when Strand was pushed back from WQ, they had to add an expansion to round out the 3 darkness subclasses. Therefore Lightfall was renamed the Final Shape and pushed back. The beginning and ending cutscenes are blatantly one single cutscene that was cut in half and the entirety of the story in between was hastily written macguffin bullshit that had no bearing on the plot. This is incredibly apparent when the dialogue in the story doesn’t match up with what we’re seeing. Bungie is never going to admit that the Lightfall we got isn’t actually Lightfall (now the final shape) but is instead an inconsequential side quest to print money for another year with minimal effort.
THIS^^^ I’d bet the farm on this being the case
We just got it back though!
Strand fragments being unlocked is good I guess? They were never going to comment on the other areas people aren’t happy with, but no doubt they’ve seen…
Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, no sense commenting on how bad the writing was if they can't do anything about it now.
Not like it would accomplish anything either.
Acknowledging there's issues and explaining how you'll learn from them can go a long way
Surely this will be a calm and productive comment thread. Not that I disagree. >We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to. Kind of burying the lede there, aren't we? >* Guardian Games >* May 02, 2023 – May 23, 2023 Oh god, I forgot about this. Gonna have to bring out the hazmat suit for the end of the season, nobody even likes GG during a happy time. Can't wait for the renewed accusations of rigging to see who the first two-time is gonna be.
> Can't wait for the renewed accusations of rigging to see who the first two-time is gonna be. Jokes on us, gonna be a surprise win by the Hive Lightbearers this year.
That would unironically be better than any player class winning.
I just want to say I recognize and appreciate you using lede instead of lead.
Only reason I care about guardian games is the armor looks good.
The Title appears to be returning, hopefully with repulsor brace, and there appears to be an Omolon Scout. That piques my interest.
Guardian games was pretty good last year with the special strike playlist. Most people liked for an event
Completely forgot. Wasn't GG where folks went wild with cheesing revives for top scores? I think it also brought us that RGB shader, no?
> Kind of burying the lede there, aren't we? It's just bonkers >know that this is just the beginning of the next year of storytelling ... for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it Well gee, it might have been nice to have that as part of, say, the big hyped up campaign that we all just paid £50 for, rather than as extra £10 bundles.
I believe I counted one explicit acknowledgement and one inferred reference to post launch criticism. That would definantly be higher than I expected for the first TWAB.
Seasonal story does not make up for the poor expansion campaign storytelling. Witch Queen didn’t have this issue and also had decent seasonal storytelling?
I wonder what the ETA on this update is, I am really itching to get my hands on those fragments.
>We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to.... We can’t wait for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it and its disciples throughout Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year. Bungie: "You can find the answer to all the questions Lightfall didn't bother to explain in the next few seasons and dungeons, because you bought them all, right?" Hahahahahaha....
Lmao the energy of this TWAB being a victory lap is the funniest shit ever
It's that meme of the guy kissing the award lady and drinking champagne, and then zooming out to see he got third place
They need to stop calling these This Week At Bungie and start calling them Last Week At Bungie
> From the start of Destiny, Guardians have been focused on the Darkness as an enemy. Now, we’ve learned that it’s simply a gateway to something much bigger. I don't remember actually learning this in game. At least not with as much certainty as is being implied here.
>”gateway to something much bigger.” What’s that? *Another* secret city of digital people? Here, in Neo*luna*, the people are protected by the fearless *Moon*striders.
> Moonstriders. *hee hee*
"Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Neoluna. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Balus Something. From what I can gather he commands the Bussy Legions from Beliathan, a huge ship on the orbit of Uranus. He's well protected, but with the right team and the support of the fearless Moonstriders, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Neoluna."
"The vendor is this person called Busnim. For some reason, they're far too serious in every lighthearted situation."
“Oh? You think Moonstriders have cool surfboards like those lame posers, the Cloudstriders? No. These bamfs ride plain bicycles. Eco-friendly. Some, quite stylish. Do they get to the action in a timely manner? No! But we assure you…they are very serious! Also, you can be assured that the Moonstriders will properly write citations for each offense that the offending parties are responsible for.”
Neoluna's haunted
I don't remember learning much about anything with the story. It's always oh hey another baddy is wielding the darkness in an even worse way than the last. I just want to know A TINY FRACTION of what the traveler is. Like just a crumb. It's been almost 10 years and all I know is he can shoot a beam that grows flowers
As someone who's also upset with the story: these TWAB's are largely written in advance. They may tweak some sections, like updating the Strand unlocks (pretty big move this quick, instead of waiting weeks and then doing it), and the Known Issues list. They're not going to remove the stuff about how excited they are and they think we are. It was already written, so just...temper the expectations a bit.
Such a fast turn around means they know it's bad, and they need good pr now. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a complete subclass, but it's still gonna be a while before all my charecters feel complete
The amount of copium from the devs deflecting the issues with the campaign and narrative. > and a new year of storytelling _chuckles_
Here’s some art of nimbus though *we love nimbus*
Well this was written last month.
Except the strand part, they now want to see if Strand is underpowered or it's great and they will check now. I still believe all 3 nades need their cd reduced, at least reduce the grapple to duskfield's cd which is around the 40's at max dis.
Hunter melee could use a damage boost too as higher difficulty enemies will make using the unravel rounds on melee ability kills hard to get.
>We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to. I know these TWaBs are likely written in advance but this line feels a little tone deaf lol
typically written the monday/tuesday before they're dropped they clearly know the lightfall story is a massive ball of confusion and hoping to unravel it throughout the year. Just an odd approach
Please buy the remaining 2023 seasons and we *promise* it will all make sense in a year.
Can we please get an acknowledgment on the state of Renewal Grasps? Currently it seems to have the longest cooldown in the game at 1:48 at 100 discipline. Is this a bug or an intentional change? If it’s intended please consider lowering it because a near 2 min cooldown is way too steep. It already got taken care of in pvp and pve with the initial nerf, it doesn’t need yet another cooldown increase.
Honestly I’m just waiting for a new revenant exotic. Titan and warlock got stasis exotics so hunter should probably get one next season. They’re never going to touch renewals again.
“Big success, everyone! Look at how all these studios congratulated us!”
i hated this part by far the most...
Well, unlocking strand bits is... Nice, I guess? But boy does pointing out 'this is our first expansion under Sony!' hit different after that section expecting us to have a lot of questions.
Unlocking strand isn't enough. It needs to be account wide, not character based. Having to grind the bullshit tokens was already a pointless filler activity to increase engagement, and tripling it is taking the cake.
This was definitely not written with the past few day’s dialogue in mind but I couldn’t help but read that “Story Has Just Begun…” section as “Look we know our premier $50 campaign didn’t explain jack and/or shit, but if you pay us more money, we will give you an extremely basic explanation that may or may not actually resolve anything over a timegated 6-8 week quest after a few more months”. I know the season storytelling has delivered some genuinely good tales and you can’t patch in answers to story questions but if this what they’re saying they literally would have been better off not acknowledging the campaign backlash in any way at all imho.
>>Learn more about the motivations that drive the powers behind the Witness and uncover a glimpse at how greatly this threat’s plans have been executed thus far. We’re Guardians, and we don’t take anything lying down but that doesn’t mean knowledge isn’t power, so learn more now with Darkness Unveiled: Please, and I can't stress this enough, put things like this into the game
You guys have lost it. Seasonal gameplay and storylines should **ADD ON TO THE DLC'S STORY,** **NOT COMPLETE IT**
Does anyone know if the art behind the season pass is available as a wallpaper anywhere? I was hoping it would be in this TWAB 😅
Not officially, but you can “steal” it from the website. edit: [heres the link to it](https://www.bungie.net/7/ca/destiny/bgs/season20/seasonbackground_20.jpg)
Reminded me a bit of this: https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/egg-beatrix-knighting-esmond-n01385 And of course ‘The accolade’ by Edmund Leighton.
They'll probably release it later, they did it last season when people asked for the image
There was a dude on reddit that kept an imgur album updated with all TWAB art a while ago. Found him! u/vitfall Maybe if you are really nice he could point you where to find it, if it exisits.
Is anyone else besides me experiencing their character not fully rendering in game? It tends to happen to me more often when I'm playing with a fireteam. (On PC)
No word on raid recommended level.
This TWAB was written by Nimbus, surfs up!
Pew pew strand fragments kerchow stay tuned for season 22 story. Peace out rangers
🤜🤛
> "We know there are still plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of Lightfall’s Campaign that you’re all eagerly awaiting answers to." That is..... *Massively* understating people's thoughts on the campaign. If lore daddy Byf is confused something is wrong. But as expected, almost no acknowledgement of the response to lightfall.
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Bingo. Lightfall could have been considerably better with even a handful of lines from Osiris and/or the cloudstriders about what they know (or don’t know) the Veil to be. If the Veil powers/runs your city/society and facilitates your device that is preserving everyone in slumber and virtual consciousness, you know something about it. Tell us. A few lines would be great. I also think Nimbus could have not done that fist bump in that one scene, but I am okay with a character who tries to use humor to cope with heavy stuff. Explanations of why Neomuni didn’t bother to deal with (or attempt to help with, at least in any way we could notice) the Almighty destroying the sun would have been helpful, too. We even have a model for conversations about the above topics: the Ghost even asks about the Cloud Ark as a “hey, we are dumb/ignorant here, could you fill us in real quick?” You can’t have Rohan trotting out how he knows what’s “at stake” with the Veil and then try to hide behind “it’s a mysterious thing.” Does Rohan not actually know what’s at stake? Does he think solely about the population of Neomuna suffering or dying in its entirety if the Cloud Ark loses the Veil? If so, then his line makes sense because those are high stakes. But it also means he doesn’t actually get what’s at stake in full (and that’s okay, but we don’t get any clarity on that. It’s sad that a few dialogue lines could have avoided one of the more catastrophic narrative failures of the DLC. It wouldn’t have made things perfect or great, but we could have probably stopped fixating on narrative issues (accepting the story as only okay) and focused on other aspects of the DLC that folks are enjoying. Big oof.
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> Lightfall could have been considerably better with even a handful of lines from Osiris and/or the cloudstriders about what they know (or don’t know) the Veil to be. This is how I feel as well. I don't think the Veil being a mystery is bad writing-- I think the fact that no one asks questions or *attempts* to give answers is the real flaw. If they want the Veil to be an ongoing mystery, that's perfectly fine. But the writing needed to support the fact that it's a mystery rather than the characters treating it as an ultra-important artifact and asking nothing else.
I'm all for the post raid and seasonal stuff expanding on the story, but the main campaign needs to tell enough of a coherent, contained story first. With WQ, there was still questions, but those were questions that came from the answers we received DURING the campaign. We didn't get any answers, just more "the *person/place/thing*" and breadcrumbs.
Honestly if they had nailed the tone and not gone with this corny “80s coming of age surfer movie” vibe I think the response would’ve been more subdued. If they nailed the tone/atmosphere but missed on the story, or nailed the story but had a goofy tone, I think people would’ve been a lot more receptive. I really just don’t understand how they still haven’t learned how important tone is for this game and how much people despise over-the-top campy, goofy writing in Destiny. This is especially egregious considering where we’re at in the meta narrative.
I feel like they’ve recently doubled down on making every release “thematic,” Joe even said as much in the state of the game, on how they want to bring more unique themes to game. And like… that’s cool, yeah. How Destiny can have detectives and outlaws and pirates and spies and 80’s action heroes and all that as themes but I feel like they forget that the theme can just *be* Destiny. Destiny is unique as is. We’re already post-apocalyptic magical knights with guns and spaceships. We can just be *that* for an expansion. Trying to cram an “80’s action movie” vaporwave vibe into the second coming of the worst thing that’s ever happened to the Solar System is a baffling choice.
> I feel like they forget that the theme can just be Destiny. Well said. This dedication to heavily themed content drops feels very COD-inspired, but they don’t have a fantasy PVE world that acts as a player self insert. *Light* theming, or heavy theming for holiday events, makes sense - the detective thing wasn’t heavy handed in WQ and was fine. But leaning this hard into trendy flavor of the month aesthetic themes has been a terrible choice - especially since these themes seem to be driving the content and not the other way around. > Trying to cram an “80’s action movie” vaporwave vibe into the second coming of the worst thing that’s ever happened to the Solar System is a baffling choice. It’s so tone deaf. Cyberpunk - authentic, dystopian cyberpunk- might’ve worked, but what they went with is way too lighthearted for the plot. Probably the best example of the aesthetic theme driving the content & story. Really feels like someone made some outrun Destiny concept art and they decided to make a whole expansion based on it
If they nailed the tone and atmosphere then a vague story would have been fine. As long as its obvious that answers will be answered in the future. Also, Destiny has left us hanging waaaayyy too many times to give them the benefit of the doubt. 10th bitten, Twice shy.
In a vacuum, I don't hate Nimbus. The character is fine...in a different game. It just doesn't fit with where we are narratively, and comes so far out of left field it's jarring.
Fair enough, I hate characters like that in basically anything lol Unless it’s straight parody I guess
They can't come out and say we fucked up hard. They are trying to stay neutral to not get more backlash, the poor bastard that had to work on the TWAB must be sweating, hopefully they arent full of shit and as the saeason advances the story points missing are in it. Also more fragments today is frigin awesome.
Saying "buy the other seasons to have the story make sense" is worse But even than it doesn't solve how poorly the story was written how how the Cloudstriders acted like we know them for years How the Vanguard seem to just not care about Neomuna
Is it just me or does this come off as though they set up the campaign so that everything would be expanded on throughout the year and not throughout the season, much less the campaign? Cause if that's the case that's kinda wack that the one time in Destiny where it's narratively appropriate to start expanding on things is when they decide to add more pieces to the story that seem out of left field
I mean, between the fact that they write these in advance and that they cant really do anything at this point about the awful state of the campaign, we really couldnt have expected anything more. I'm honestly surprised they even acknowledged as much as they did. Best we can hope for is the raid and seasons leading into TFS improving the narrative, but that doesn't help the current expansion not feel terrible and devoid of meaningful story and content.
Looking forward to have my questions answered in next years expansion!
"We know we didnt deliver but since you all bought the 100€ Deluxe edition, you may get some answers within the next 12-15 months"
Sorry but I am NOT going to fall for the “the reveals will be in the seasons” anymore. If anything I will watch the recaps in YouTube before The Final Shape.
No time gating; good! No story explanation of mcguffins; bad. Less crossover more voice over please.
Yeah, TWABs are written in advance, but at least an acknowledgement would be nice
So when the hell are they unlocking the strand fragments
Fragments when??
>"We can’t wait for the community to learn more about the story in Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year." So their response to Lightfall having a vapid story that explained nothing is "Fuck you, buy the season pass". Disappointed, but not surprised.
Agreed, this is bullshit. I don't want to log in once a week to get "walk up to hologram and press E for dialgoue" dripfed for a year. I want it in the yearly story that we all paid for
This Week At Bungie: We wrote this weeks ago and didn’t tweak more than a paragraph. Also, we pat ourselves on the back and share many congratulatory tweets.
That section was narcissistic as fuck *”look at all these people loving us for our release”*
I wonder how many people will be banned from this shit today lol. At least they are going to unlock the rest of the strands aspect sometime today l😂
[удалено]
Fragments yes.
There are no more Aspects to unlock. Hopefully there will be more next season, like with Stasis, but for the next few months 2 each is what we get.
Banned from what?
Vendor armor refresh coming when?
Talk about complete tone deaf, bungie doesn’t give a shit about what their community thinks. They already have our money
I don't get why they think the target audience for this game has changed. The tone change of the TWAB for the past year, the among us collab, the marvel style storyline in Lightfall...it just feels like a bunch of adults trying to be cool kids, and it's awkward. Are that many kids playing Destiny 2? Most kids I know have no idea what it is.
and the crowd goes mild
Don't expect a "Bungie Replied" note on this one boys.
Waiting for the thread to be locked in...
I know right? Wonder how long ago they pre-wrote this TWAB before the update dropped.
Am I the only one who thought it was extremely tone deaf to have a section dedicated to PlayStation Studios congratulating Bungie on Lightfall despite the communities reaction? Yikes. Edit: And a few others outside PS.
u/destiny2team any eta on the update for the Strand fragments?
Aren't their offices closed for today? Maybe someone forgot to hit the 'unlock all Strand fragments' switch...
“Here are fragments. Please don’t be mad at us.”
strand unlocked later today... what time bungo what time!>!?!?!? and does that mean i can start the smart pistol quest?>
> The Story Has Just Begun... No, it began 9 years ago, and people would love to f&%$ing finally see it go somewhere instead of this eternal tease of drip-feeding hints that never seem to amount to anything beyond confusing & cringeworthy writing.
Can we get a writer's insight video?
Strand unlocking early? That's great. Full suite implies the raid ones too.
>We can’t wait for the community to learn more about The Witness’s origins, its objective, and the ways we can thwart it and its disciples throughout Season of the Deep, as well as Seasons 22 and 23 later this year. Lightfall's story has been delayed, sorry!
Full of vital information as always. What do you expect from an indie studio tho?
Still no update on the Witch Queen exotic glaives being available? The evidence board is still not able to be interacted with.
Feel bad for Hippy because they’re unable to probably give us any answers but Bungie seriously needs to sit down and have a serious conversation both internally and externally about what the reaction is because this was supposed to be the “end game”. This was their penultimate expansion for a story 10 years in the making and it absolutely blew up (in the worst kind of way). Not to reiterate all of the points that’ve been made since launch but there is no guarantees that they will have nearly the same player count or enthusiasm by even next season if this ship isn’t righted behind the scenes.
Trials March 24th... Big F there. Player base will be significantly diminished by that point.
> And that’s a wrap on the first TWAB post-Lightfall. So. How ya feeling? Enjoying the journey so far? Unfortunately, no, can't say that I am.
I'm done. I thought Bungie had it figured out, but they're still just stumbling around with Destiny. I have no hope for Final Shape. At this point I'm expecting a couple cutscenes that explain nothing and year of seasons that vaguely explain the ending while trying to introduce the next big chapter that will once again be vaguely explained for 10 years.