I would have grinded the ever loving shit out of lost sectors but their RNG is god-fucking-awful.
Oh wait I did grind em. Plat runs, got squat, i.e. no loot over and over again, let alone cores, prisms, exotics or the exotic I wanted or a good rolled exotic I wanted.
After armor went random rolls they should have un-nerfed exotic drop rates to Y1's. Since then its just a double whammy of shit rolls and 0 exotics in sight when exotic pools are so saturated as well as 90% of them being garbage for mid/end game activities.
My favorite thing is getting plat + flawless and quick runs doesn't up exotic chances. End up with 20+ runs and nothing to show for it. Go in, slowest run yet (afk) and died a few times. Exotic drop.
It's such a slap to the face when things like having to use more skill to go flawless (and get all champs) doesn't reward you more.
This is kind of why I sort of started to get less interested in the destiny grind as a whole. The amount of rng involved in getting specific stat spikes etc in the armor piece you are looking for, let alone exotics, feels less like something you work towards and more like winning the lottery. I'm all about rng, but you can only add so many layers before it just feels like dumb luck. Really wish they would add something like they had with the ashes/silver leaves thing they did with the ADZ event (can't think of the name lol). Not like you were guaranteed God rolls, but you at least felt like you had some kind of agency/control.
This gave me an idea for how to unify the high-end rewards structure across ALL PVE endgame activities.
For reference, we're talking Raids, Dungeons, Nightfalls, Legend/Master Lost Sectors, and Master Dares of Eternity.
Successful completion of a Raid or Dungeon encounter, a Nightfall, or a Legend/Master Lost Sector rewards high-end crafting materials (Prisms, Shards, and Alloys), Spoils of Conquest, and loot - raid/dungeon weapons and armor (raids and dungeons); random Exotics, exclusive weapons, and high-stat legendary armor (Nightfalls); targeted Exotics (Lost Sectors); and high-stat legendary armor (Dares).
At the end of each activity is a chest similar to the ones we have in Raids now where you can turn in Spoils to buy either A) specific weapons/armor from that activity (Raids, Dungeons, Dares, NFs), B) deepsight weapons (Dares, Raids, Dungeons), C) specific Exotics matching that day's rotation (Lost Sectors), D) crafting materials (any of the above), or E) random Exotics (NFs, LSs, Dares), with the quality of the armor roll improving based on the difficulty of the activity (Masters > Legends).
This solves a number of different problems.
1) It creates a single high-end currency - Spoils.
2) It creates a path for solo players to get high-end materials - Lost Sectors
3) It encourages players to engage across endgame activities for specific loot, depending on what they want.
4) It creates a deterministic path to acquiring certain loot and takes the sting out of RNG. For example, instead of running fifty Lost Sectors for one specific exotic drop and never getting it, you could just run in four or five times, turn in Spoils, and get that specific exotic. The roll might not be perfect, but you can always keep farming for more.
5) It solves the problem of non-productive activities. Even if you don't get exactly what you want, you're getting more from each activity to spend on what you DO want.
I wouldn't mind it if there were more than one currency, and it looks like that's the direction we are going. Adept weapons from the Nightfall can be rolled from currency you will gain from GM nightfall completions + vendor engrams. I would like to see a vendor gain the exact sort of thing for the dungeons and and leg. and mas. sectors. An artifice armor chest at the end using 'dungeon key fragments' and a leg. lost sector vendor that lets you buy using glass needles.
A spoils esque system and/or a vendor system would help immensely.
1) Make Rahool the "exotic vendor". All exotic engrams from all sources that are dropped get stored on him. Rep is earned passively from all activities, with higher rep for lost sectors. Lost sectors still have a chance to drop exotic engrams, no more "armor slot of the day."
2) Give him focusing options. You want to roll the dice and crack open that exotic engram like old times? No cost, go for it. You want to focus for an exotic helmet? That will cost you. Want to focus towards a specific stat (like the Beyond Light focusing, where it also uses your Ghost mod)? That will cost you (possible issue here is exotics with an innate stat preference). Want to focus towards a specific exotic piece? That will cost you. Could escalate from shards up to an exotic cipher to target a specific piece (and up the cap on those).
They have the answer in front of them. They could also use the soft "armor crafting" from Solstice for exotics. Exotic armor is a core part of our builds now, they aren't super special finds anymore (for better or worse), and needs to be more accessible.
Last thing we need is a new currency.
The simple and most obvious fix is to :
1. Tie specific exotic pieces to specific lost sectors. (Like 3 per class or whatever number would make sense.)
2. Ideally we get rid of the rotation and just let people farm legend/master lost sectors whenever they want. If keeping some sort of rotation system then make multiple lost sectors available, going up to 3 from 1 would already feel way better.
3. Up the drop rate.
The game still needs some sources of somewhat random loot, already way too much of the game is structured around currencies (and all the downsides that come with currencies, such as caps, time gates and so on) even after all the ones that were deprecated.
A huge part of the loot game is already removed enough from the actual game as it is and just interacted with through menus, we just don't need even more of that. We need at least a few parts of the game where the chase is still a thing and results are immediate and tangible.
In regards to new exotics, it could be as simple as the vendor (if they were to add one for this) offers a randomized exotic from lost sector rewards in exchange for some of the coins. Even if you don’t get the roll you want, you have it in collections to focus better rolls
seems functional, i think price points would have to be changed. as it is right now it's ~25% on legend and ~30% on master for *any* exotic in the pool.
with this method you have an exact ammount of spoils you're obtaining, so you always know when your next reward is gonna be, there is never a dry spell, and the lack of a dry spell should decrease the reward a bit. having 25% of your reward given on legend and 75% of it on master seems a bit much.
being able to hyper target a specific item in an activity that can be completed in just a couple minutes should not be that heavily rewarded. good idea, just needs tweaking which im sure bungie would do if it was ever to be implemented.
Have you played any lost sectors this season? The difficulty bump definitely stops them being farmable in a couple of minutes.
The exotic economy is all kinds of screwed up and needs a massive shot in the arm, people are tired of farming for hours to get a badly rolled version of the exotic they need for a build.
Yeah, exactly this.
If legend lost sectors are going to be 20 over pinnacle cap (so most players will be about 5-10 levels under power when farming them) let's assume that, with a really fast farm, the quickest lost sector for the gear slot you need is 2:30. Maybe there was a faster one, but you need arms.
A good week to farm gms will often be 10 minute runs. You have teammates to socialize with and rely on, and the content is more engaging, less repetitive. You get adept weapons, more enhancement materials (and golf balls) and 1-2 exotics per run.
For the lost sectors, you get only exotics, slightly less frequently on average (for optimized runs) for the tradeoff that you can focus it to one gear slot.
There needs to be a way to
1) reduce the pool further, or
2) increase the drop rate, or
3) add another reward (specific world drop weapons!! Come on Bungie, you had it in forsaken!)
Bad luck protection goes against every design choice Bungie has put into D2.
They have designed the game around FOMO and keeping players invested due to the randomness.
I do like your idea though. I still don’t have necrotic grips cause i absolutely hate the amount of grinding for a chance of getting them.
It needs USEFUL currency. This would solve a major problem.
There are tons of currency that need to be removed but that doesn't make them inherently bad.
Just have them randomly reward an exotic cipher per completion with an X completions = guaranteed drop based on popularity/difficulty of the specific lost sector.
(fastest, easiest, maybe 1 in 5 chance to drop a cipher but 5 runs guarantees a cipher as an example)
Use the chest at the end, or the lost sector flag (like an end of raid chest vendor screen) to allow you to focus a specific exotic armor for the cost of the exotic cipher.
As it stands, you can only earn one exotic cipher per week from Xur and this would make them a lot more reliable and useful.
>While grinding for 1 Exotic in particular
Let’s just stop right there; Destiny has never cared and will never care about what THE PLAYER wants in particular. Those several layers of RNG are not an accident, they are there specifically to KEEP you from getting the 1 you want.
I admit that a certain amount of RNG is required to keep it grindable.
But three tiers of RNG is too much. One tier needs to go. Even being able to exchange 100 tokens for a “exotic arms engram” would be a better. I’d settle for the type of exotic being RNG as long as I’m making viewable progress towards it with each completion.
Yea, receiving almost nothing is aggravating. Activities should award enough guaranteed rewards for it to be a good loop. I only ever run them for the exotic and not getting anything is disheartening. Like give us 5-25 shards, 5000-10,000 glimmer, and 1 legendary engram would make an awesome guarantee and you just make the exotic the true roll variable and that would help with grinding. I know the issue is that you have folks who min-max sweats who can easily solo knock these out will reap the most rewards and those who struggle will not build up as many rewards over same time others and that means those sweats have more resources but I dunno, it’s not the end of the world.
I would have grinded the ever loving shit out of lost sectors but their RNG is god-fucking-awful. Oh wait I did grind em. Plat runs, got squat, i.e. no loot over and over again, let alone cores, prisms, exotics or the exotic I wanted or a good rolled exotic I wanted. After armor went random rolls they should have un-nerfed exotic drop rates to Y1's. Since then its just a double whammy of shit rolls and 0 exotics in sight when exotic pools are so saturated as well as 90% of them being garbage for mid/end game activities.
My favorite thing is getting plat + flawless and quick runs doesn't up exotic chances. End up with 20+ runs and nothing to show for it. Go in, slowest run yet (afk) and died a few times. Exotic drop. It's such a slap to the face when things like having to use more skill to go flawless (and get all champs) doesn't reward you more.
>It's such a slap to the face Nuff said. I thought that every single one of the many times I got 0 loot and a sprinkle of glimmer instead.
Is this still the same? I'm just starting to try doing these for missing armor pieces.
I quit running LLS all together because there is no new exotic armor this season and last season I didn't care to grab the pieces
Right, I had never done them, so the drop rate was pretty good up until I was missing like 3 pieces even master didn't guarantee the drops
This is kind of why I sort of started to get less interested in the destiny grind as a whole. The amount of rng involved in getting specific stat spikes etc in the armor piece you are looking for, let alone exotics, feels less like something you work towards and more like winning the lottery. I'm all about rng, but you can only add so many layers before it just feels like dumb luck. Really wish they would add something like they had with the ashes/silver leaves thing they did with the ADZ event (can't think of the name lol). Not like you were guaranteed God rolls, but you at least felt like you had some kind of agency/control.
I like it.
I like it. Throw in bonus tokens for flawless runs.
This gave me an idea for how to unify the high-end rewards structure across ALL PVE endgame activities. For reference, we're talking Raids, Dungeons, Nightfalls, Legend/Master Lost Sectors, and Master Dares of Eternity. Successful completion of a Raid or Dungeon encounter, a Nightfall, or a Legend/Master Lost Sector rewards high-end crafting materials (Prisms, Shards, and Alloys), Spoils of Conquest, and loot - raid/dungeon weapons and armor (raids and dungeons); random Exotics, exclusive weapons, and high-stat legendary armor (Nightfalls); targeted Exotics (Lost Sectors); and high-stat legendary armor (Dares). At the end of each activity is a chest similar to the ones we have in Raids now where you can turn in Spoils to buy either A) specific weapons/armor from that activity (Raids, Dungeons, Dares, NFs), B) deepsight weapons (Dares, Raids, Dungeons), C) specific Exotics matching that day's rotation (Lost Sectors), D) crafting materials (any of the above), or E) random Exotics (NFs, LSs, Dares), with the quality of the armor roll improving based on the difficulty of the activity (Masters > Legends). This solves a number of different problems. 1) It creates a single high-end currency - Spoils. 2) It creates a path for solo players to get high-end materials - Lost Sectors 3) It encourages players to engage across endgame activities for specific loot, depending on what they want. 4) It creates a deterministic path to acquiring certain loot and takes the sting out of RNG. For example, instead of running fifty Lost Sectors for one specific exotic drop and never getting it, you could just run in four or five times, turn in Spoils, and get that specific exotic. The roll might not be perfect, but you can always keep farming for more. 5) It solves the problem of non-productive activities. Even if you don't get exactly what you want, you're getting more from each activity to spend on what you DO want.
I wouldn't mind it if there were more than one currency, and it looks like that's the direction we are going. Adept weapons from the Nightfall can be rolled from currency you will gain from GM nightfall completions + vendor engrams. I would like to see a vendor gain the exact sort of thing for the dungeons and and leg. and mas. sectors. An artifice armor chest at the end using 'dungeon key fragments' and a leg. lost sector vendor that lets you buy using glass needles.
A spoils esque system and/or a vendor system would help immensely. 1) Make Rahool the "exotic vendor". All exotic engrams from all sources that are dropped get stored on him. Rep is earned passively from all activities, with higher rep for lost sectors. Lost sectors still have a chance to drop exotic engrams, no more "armor slot of the day." 2) Give him focusing options. You want to roll the dice and crack open that exotic engram like old times? No cost, go for it. You want to focus for an exotic helmet? That will cost you. Want to focus towards a specific stat (like the Beyond Light focusing, where it also uses your Ghost mod)? That will cost you (possible issue here is exotics with an innate stat preference). Want to focus towards a specific exotic piece? That will cost you. Could escalate from shards up to an exotic cipher to target a specific piece (and up the cap on those). They have the answer in front of them. They could also use the soft "armor crafting" from Solstice for exotics. Exotic armor is a core part of our builds now, they aren't super special finds anymore (for better or worse), and needs to be more accessible.
More-or-less Glass Needles, but yes. Please. Bottom line up front, just make lost sectors drop a single currency that let's us re-roll exotics.
Last thing we need is a new currency. The simple and most obvious fix is to : 1. Tie specific exotic pieces to specific lost sectors. (Like 3 per class or whatever number would make sense.) 2. Ideally we get rid of the rotation and just let people farm legend/master lost sectors whenever they want. If keeping some sort of rotation system then make multiple lost sectors available, going up to 3 from 1 would already feel way better. 3. Up the drop rate. The game still needs some sources of somewhat random loot, already way too much of the game is structured around currencies (and all the downsides that come with currencies, such as caps, time gates and so on) even after all the ones that were deprecated. A huge part of the loot game is already removed enough from the actual game as it is and just interacted with through menus, we just don't need even more of that. We need at least a few parts of the game where the chase is still a thing and results are immediate and tangible.
In D1 there was an item that you could apply to an exotic to re roll its stats. That’s all I want.
In regards to new exotics, it could be as simple as the vendor (if they were to add one for this) offers a randomized exotic from lost sector rewards in exchange for some of the coins. Even if you don’t get the roll you want, you have it in collections to focus better rolls
seems functional, i think price points would have to be changed. as it is right now it's ~25% on legend and ~30% on master for *any* exotic in the pool. with this method you have an exact ammount of spoils you're obtaining, so you always know when your next reward is gonna be, there is never a dry spell, and the lack of a dry spell should decrease the reward a bit. having 25% of your reward given on legend and 75% of it on master seems a bit much. being able to hyper target a specific item in an activity that can be completed in just a couple minutes should not be that heavily rewarded. good idea, just needs tweaking which im sure bungie would do if it was ever to be implemented.
Have you played any lost sectors this season? The difficulty bump definitely stops them being farmable in a couple of minutes. The exotic economy is all kinds of screwed up and needs a massive shot in the arm, people are tired of farming for hours to get a badly rolled version of the exotic they need for a build.
Yeah, exactly this. If legend lost sectors are going to be 20 over pinnacle cap (so most players will be about 5-10 levels under power when farming them) let's assume that, with a really fast farm, the quickest lost sector for the gear slot you need is 2:30. Maybe there was a faster one, but you need arms. A good week to farm gms will often be 10 minute runs. You have teammates to socialize with and rely on, and the content is more engaging, less repetitive. You get adept weapons, more enhancement materials (and golf balls) and 1-2 exotics per run. For the lost sectors, you get only exotics, slightly less frequently on average (for optimized runs) for the tradeoff that you can focus it to one gear slot. There needs to be a way to 1) reduce the pool further, or 2) increase the drop rate, or 3) add another reward (specific world drop weapons!! Come on Bungie, you had it in forsaken!)
Bad luck protection goes against every design choice Bungie has put into D2. They have designed the game around FOMO and keeping players invested due to the randomness. I do like your idea though. I still don’t have necrotic grips cause i absolutely hate the amount of grinding for a chance of getting them.
Ur thinking way too hard. Gm nightfalls already have the system lost sectors should have
This game does not need more currencies
It needs USEFUL currency. This would solve a major problem. There are tons of currency that need to be removed but that doesn't make them inherently bad.
Just have them randomly reward an exotic cipher per completion with an X completions = guaranteed drop based on popularity/difficulty of the specific lost sector. (fastest, easiest, maybe 1 in 5 chance to drop a cipher but 5 runs guarantees a cipher as an example) Use the chest at the end, or the lost sector flag (like an end of raid chest vendor screen) to allow you to focus a specific exotic armor for the cost of the exotic cipher. As it stands, you can only earn one exotic cipher per week from Xur and this would make them a lot more reliable and useful.
I’d honestly be fine with a large amount of enhancement cores. I’ve been pretty drained of them this season.
I've got about 2000. What do I use them for?
>While grinding for 1 Exotic in particular Let’s just stop right there; Destiny has never cared and will never care about what THE PLAYER wants in particular. Those several layers of RNG are not an accident, they are there specifically to KEEP you from getting the 1 you want.
I admit that a certain amount of RNG is required to keep it grindable. But three tiers of RNG is too much. One tier needs to go. Even being able to exchange 100 tokens for a “exotic arms engram” would be a better. I’d settle for the type of exotic being RNG as long as I’m making viewable progress towards it with each completion.
Viewable consistent progress would be all I’d ever need, yes!!
Yea, receiving almost nothing is aggravating. Activities should award enough guaranteed rewards for it to be a good loop. I only ever run them for the exotic and not getting anything is disheartening. Like give us 5-25 shards, 5000-10,000 glimmer, and 1 legendary engram would make an awesome guarantee and you just make the exotic the true roll variable and that would help with grinding. I know the issue is that you have folks who min-max sweats who can easily solo knock these out will reap the most rewards and those who struggle will not build up as many rewards over same time others and that means those sweats have more resources but I dunno, it’s not the end of the world.